Todd Akin, rape, and the politics of abortion
“First of all, from what I understand from doctors, (pregnancy from rape) is really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child.”
– U.S. Rep. Todd Akin of Missouri, GOP nominee for U.S. Senate
Right now, Todd Akin is not particularly popular among his fellow Republicans, many of whom are rushing to condemn him and even urging him to abandon his race for the U.S. Senate. That harsh criticism is motivated in part because of honest disagreement with what he said, and in part because he has opened up an area of discussion that the Republican Party wants to avoid at all costs.
Let’s deal first with Akins’ false claim that the female body has some self-protection mechanism that allows it to fend off fertilization in cases of “legitimate rape” (see note below)*. There is no biological basis for that claim, and medical research indicates that more than 30,000 women a year become pregnant each year in this country as a result of rape. The fact that Akins believes otherwise is further proof that the reproductive rights of women should not be determined by men who have no earthly idea what they’re talking about.
Like others who have made similar claims in the past, Akins believes that abortion ought to be banned even in cases of rape and incest. In the past few years, that has become an increasingly mainstream position within the Republican Party and in the right-to-life movement. In an advisory question in the Georgia GOP primary last month, two-thirds of Republican voters backed a so-called “personhood” measure calling for government protection of “all “human life from its earliest biological beginning,” regardless of how it began. Vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan is also on record in support of the personhood movement and wants to ban abortion in every case except when the life of the mother is at stake.
Mitt Romney’s position is less clear. In some settings, especially during the GOP primary, he has seemed to endorse the personhood movement, but he refused to sign a pledge to that effect. He has said repeatedly that he believes life begins at the moment of conception, but his official position is that abortion ought to be legal in cases of rape or incest.
He has also said that he believes that such matters should be left to the states if Roe v. Wade is overturned, but he has also said that if given the chance as president to sign a bill barring all abortions nationwide, “I would be delighted to sign that bill.”
Given that history of equivocation — not to mention Romney’s previous transition from a pro-choice stance — American women would be foolish to look to a President Romney as any sort of bulwark against those in his own party who would ban abortion in all circumstances other than to save the life of the mother. Even on this most basic of issues, he has no apparent core of personal belief that he isn’t willing to surrender for political gain.
– Jay Bookman
—————–
* To a degree, Akin is being slammed unfairly for an unfortunate choice of words. His term “legitimate rape” is being twisted by some into a suggestion that some forms of rape are OK, and that’s clearly not what he meant. He was trying to draw a distinction between rape and cases in which women might claim to have been raped in order to qualify for an abortion. Of course, that attempted distinction creates problems of its own, largely because it suggests that only the most brutal form of rape — inflicted at gunpoint or after a physical beating — constitutes “real” rape.
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853 comments Add your comment
Paul
August 20th, 2012
7:38 pm
Shovel 7:35
Key phrase is ‘belief of faith’ – specifically, used to declare life begins at conception and using that to make public policy.
getalife
August 20th, 2012
7:40 pm
josef,
It embarrassed our country but that is what the gop do.
The focus in akin is so those 30 get a free pass.
Aquagirl
August 20th, 2012
7:41 pm
Logically, I think there should be no abortions save for instances of rape, incest and medical necessity or any and all abortions.
Let’s summarize: “teh beeyotches don’t control their wombs while alive. The fetus needs ‘em, well, saddle up ladies.” But you, Shovel, have the right to your organs even after you’re dead.
Just FYI Shovel……I’ve stopped expecting any answer beyond LALALA CAN’T HEAR U. I do reserve the right to mock your double standards about the so-called sanctity of life. So everyone can see the hypocrisy and the REAL issue.
Cons fold like a cheap lawn chair when the sanctity of life might intrude on their body. It never fails.
oldfart
August 20th, 2012
7:42 pm
Life began about 2 billion years ago and has been continual ever since. The unfertilized egg is “alive” before conception, as is the sperm. Of course, on average a couple of hundred million of the other sperm die even in a successful fertilization. Oh the humanity. That’s not even counting the trillions that die out of hand.
ld
August 20th, 2012
7:42 pm
“honest disagreement”?
They disagree that he said aloud what many of these Republican MCP (apologies to pigs) are actually primitive minded enough believe.
TaxPayer
August 20th, 2012
7:42 pm
If cons only believed in an infinitely large government, all men and women could be equipped with devices that monitored their releases of sperm and eggs as well as the uterus and determine precisely when a successful attachment was detected. Then again, with all the advances in science, we may be there any day now. Too bad cons don’t believe in health insurance because all that technology to allow the cons to monitor their notion of conception has got to be some expensive stuff that only the wealthiest will be able to afford after their next tax cut.
bman
August 20th, 2012
7:43 pm
Doggone .. .. Ok. I’ve never heard of this “personhood” thing. Is that new, or have I just been to busy I wonder…
if someone is put on a life support system – if they are not breathing on their own, are they no longer a part of this personhood thing ?
ld
August 20th, 2012
7:43 pm
Personhood: ” life ” begining at erection. More GOP nonsense.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 20th, 2012
7:44 pm
oldfart -
That’s not even counting the trillions that die out of hand.
—————————————————————————————
Did you kill more than ONE liver cell a few minutes ago.
josef
August 20th, 2012
7:46 pm
getalife
“…alcohol was involved…”
It was drug related! Somebody should’ve told them, them Golan reds carry a punch…
Brosephus™
August 20th, 2012
7:46 pm
Good thing no Georgia Reps went skinny dippin’ in the Sea of Galilee.
Shovel Ready Jobs
August 20th, 2012
7:47 pm
“I was afraid you’d get completely distracted with the source of the piece rather than the point the piece was making.”
Then why quote two passages from it? You seem to be enthralled by its reasoning. I am not. It is utterly unconvincing. The CC for example teaches that infants are to be baptized into Christ. Please show where that “position” can be supported from NT passages? Or how about celibacy for priests? Or even the existence of a NT priesthood (separate and apart from laymen)? Or let’s go back some years. What about Indulgences? The Inquisition? The Crusades?
“Or, it’s possible you got it and answering about the source was just your way of avoiding dealing with the inconsistencies in your position, Harry.”
I see. I don’t agree with the assertions of the CC in the passages and now I am avoiding dealing with the “inconsistencies” in my position? Can you stand up for yourself? I responded to your charge above. You don’t make the case, pure and simple.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 20th, 2012
7:48 pm
Bro
Don’t you know? The Ga reps CAN walk on water
Brosephus™
August 20th, 2012
7:48 pm
“Personhood:
” life ”“Fun” begining at erection.”Shovel Ready Jobs
August 20th, 2012
7:48 pm
“So everyone can see the hypocrisy and the REAL issue.”
So just how many abortions have you had, AQ?
bman
August 20th, 2012
7:49 pm
Josef .. .. Do you live in ATL now? I thought you were …I don’t even remember – Louisana?
Brosephus™
August 20th, 2012
7:49 pm
NoCom
I don’t think they’ll ever release a list of who all went on that trip, but if that’s the trip I think it is, I know of a few who went.
po dunk
August 20th, 2012
7:51 pm
Shovel Ready
How many kids have you adopted?
How many kids have you assisted in getting adopted by others?
How much counseling work have you done with pregnant teens?
You putting your money where your mouth is or just running it for running sake
TaxPayer
August 20th, 2012
7:52 pm
Swimming in the Sea of Galilee a year ago. Those House Republicans really know how to keep their secrets. What else are they hiding. And whatever happened to their talk about transparency, aside from the obvious talk about naked swimming but that’s not what I meant.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 20th, 2012
7:52 pm
Bro
the kansas city paper in Jay’s earlier link listed some that went even Cantor went. LOL
But he said he didn’t swim that night. I guess he really doesn’t control the new Rep’s.
josef
August 20th, 2012
7:53 pm
bman
I’ve lived here for 30 some-odd years, with a five year stay in Rome (well, Coosa). My Dad’s family is from New Orleans, the city of my heart and soul…I was born in Mississippi and spent most of my early years there and in Memphis. I went to college in the Pacific Northwest…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 20th, 2012
7:54 pm
Today comes word that a bunch of Republican Congressmen got drunk, naked, and jumped in the Sea of Galilee. No doubt a few of them, given the religious significance, peed in the holy waters while swimming. Many conservatives are greeting it with a yawn, a “the media is out to get us,” and a “no big deal.”
[...]
The story is not a major story, but it is embarrassing and we should not be so dismissive of a group of American lawmakers behaving badly as if they were starring in a Girls Gone Wild video.
Ben Quayle, in a primary with Dave Schweikert in Arizona, came to Congress in the midst of the news that he had a website rating the various women of Scottsdale. We should not be surprised the child of privilege still hasn’t grown up. As parents, we should be appalled that drunk, naked Congressmen are skinny dipping with the children of other Congresscritters and then hiding behind Jesus to do it.
They have embarrassed themselves, their families, their constituents, and their party. They should have the decency to resign, or at least put a paper bag over their head and go away for a very long time.
josef
August 20th, 2012
7:55 pm
Common
Swimming nekkid that close to the Syrian border ain’t kosher!
Brosephus™
August 20th, 2012
7:56 pm
NoCom
I missed the link earlier, but that trip may be the one I think it is.
Doggone/GA
August 20th, 2012
7:56 pm
“if someone is put on a life support system – if they are not breathing on their own, are they no longer a part of this personhood thing ?”
What does that have to do with what I said? I said I have no doubt that a delivered child is a SEPARATE PERSON once they take their first breath. A PERSON on lifesupport is not taking their FIRST breath. They’ve already done that. They are already a person. Nothing but death changes that.
bman
August 20th, 2012
7:56 pm
Josef .. .. Wow I did not know that. I lived in Rome, GA. from 1993-1998. Nice, small town. But, not exactly my kinda place
Shovel Ready Jobs
August 20th, 2012
7:57 pm
“Key phrase is ‘belief of faith’ – specifically, used to declare life begins at conception and using that to make public policy.”
Baahh. We are all bound by belief systems. So would you want to repeal laws against murder since that can be found in the Ten Commandments? Besides, you don’t need to resort to religious texts to conclude life begins at conception – because it obviously does (unless you think cells are not a form of life).
TaxPayer
August 20th, 2012
7:58 pm
I believe Shovel has made his case as well as he can make it–if the woman drops her aspirin, she must suffer the wrath of the laws of the manland. Amen and so say they all, etc. Swimming nude after dinner though. Don’t those Republicans realize they can get cramps.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 20th, 2012
7:59 pm
Question is were they all new Repub. congress critters or a mixed bag?
Since they didn’t pay for the trip sounds like they all got along swimmingly to keep the secret a year.
bman
August 20th, 2012
7:59 pm
Doggone … … ooook lol.
Doggone/GA
August 20th, 2012
7:59 pm
“So would you want to repeal laws against murder since that can be found in the Ten Commandments?”
Except that’s backwards. Injunctions agains murder transcend any and all religions, even those that try to co-opt it as a religious “belief”
Doggone/GA
August 20th, 2012
8:00 pm
“Doggone … … ooook lol.”
Sorry, but if you don’t quote me I have NO IDEA which of my posts you are referring to.
Shovel Ready Jobs
August 20th, 2012
8:01 pm
“Except that’s backwards. Injunctions agains murder transcend any and all religions, even those that try to co-opt it as a religious “belief”
That cannot be shown conclusively (since we do not have all historical texts at our disposal). It is a bald assertion.
Paul
August 20th, 2012
8:01 pm
Shovel
“Then why quote two passages from it? ”
Because I provide cites for sources. It makes the point about the inherent conflict in asserting when life begins yet citing some instances in which one person can have the moral authority to end that life. It’s not about baptism or any other doctrines or diversions. I would’ve cited a Buddhist source if it clearly laid out the reasoning. But then you’d probably go off on idols and incence.
I said early on I do not know when life begins. For me it’s more about viability. As far as the abortion issue, to me it’s more about the attitude one has. I’ve yet to hear liberals on this blog adopt the casual attitude conservatives charge them with. I think they’ve shown it’s a pretty grave undertaking, but it’s one that should be up to the woman, not imposed by others, especially when that imposition is based upon an unknowable belief in when humanness begins.
josef
August 20th, 2012
8:01 pm
bman
We were there 1996 to 2001. Commuted to Atlanta! Ouch! We went there to make sure our kids grew up in an environment that reflected our home values and would do it again if we had to. We have nothing but the highest regard and respect for the good people of Floyd County and all the support they gave us.
Recon 0311 2533
August 20th, 2012
8:02 pm
Left wing jerks it never fails they don’t utter a word of condemnation when the jack asses in their own party say or do something stupid, but get off all over themselves when a member of the opposing party says something stupid. I applaud those Republicans who came out against this idiot even knowing Senate control could remain with the Democrats because of it.
Paul
August 20th, 2012
8:03 pm
TaxPayer
” Swimming nude after dinner though. Don’t those Republicans realize they can get cramps.”
Golly, who knows what would’ve happened if they’d waited 30 minutes to go in the water?
Shovel Ready Jobs
August 20th, 2012
8:05 pm
“I believe Shovel has made his case as well as he can make it–if the woman drops her aspirin, she must suffer the wrath of the laws of the manland.”
I believe TP (lol) and others have made their case as well as one can make it – let everyone have Bacchanalian sex and then avoid the consequences of this by snuffing out the little ones. You might find China a better place to live in that case.
Julia
August 20th, 2012
8:05 pm
This si what happens when women let these knuckle dragging mouth breathing Neanderthals tell US what we can and cannot do with our bodies. if i wanted the government in my you know what, i’d **** a Senator. so keep your laws off of my body.
I hope all women who are as offended by these people as I will remember this come November.
Old Goober
August 20th, 2012
8:05 pm
I lived in Rome in the 70s. Had to rely on a colleague who commuted from Atlanta to get a bottle of wine. You could get beer at a package store called Red’s, but nothing stronger. My wife and I used to go to a restaurant called the Woodley, which was in an old plantation-style house south of town along U.S. 27. If you brought your wine, the wait staff would serve it for you and once in a while slip you an after-dinner aperitif. I don’t know what arrangements the owner had made with the Floyd County police to permit that. I was happy to move to metro Atlanta after seven years in Rome.
Aquagirl
August 20th, 2012
8:06 pm
So just how many abortions have you had, AQ?
I lost count after 37. It’s just like having your nails done after a while.
This has been another edition of Slam The Misogynist Who Can’t Defend Himself And Thinks He’ll Win By Asking Me About My Uterus.
G Mare
August 20th, 2012
8:08 pm
Oldfart, out of hand?!? Good one!!
Doggone/GA
August 20th, 2012
8:09 pm
“That cannot be shown conclusively (since we do not have all historical texts at our disposal). It is a bald assertion”
How many atheists do you know, or know of, who support murder without penalty. I can think of several RELIGIONS that believed in it.
Jay
August 20th, 2012
8:09 pm
“I applaud those Republicans who came out against this idiot even knowing Senate control could remain with the Democrats because of it.”
Actually, they’re trying to force him out of the race in order to salvage their chances to take the Senate. But more power to ‘em anyway.
bman
August 20th, 2012
8:09 pm
Josef .. .. I have to run. I’ll get back with you about Rome. Small world….
Brosephus™
August 20th, 2012
8:09 pm
My mom still lives in Rome, so I get up that way from time to time. It’s grown tremendously since the early 80’s, but it still has that small town feel.
Paul
August 20th, 2012
8:10 pm
Aquagirl
Dang, but you’re on a roll tonight!
Channeling Phyllis Diller playing with the audience?
USMC
August 20th, 2012
8:13 pm
Here’s to Night Swimming in the Sea of Galilee… replubliCon or democRat:-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx9br5ISRpo
GrassRootsGuy Joel Blackwell
August 20th, 2012
8:13 pm
Rape Comments Redux:
Philadelphia Inquirer March 1988 HARRISBURG – The odds that a woman who is raped will get pregnant are “one in millions and millions and millions,” said Republican state Rep. Stephen Freind. The reason, Freind said, is that the traumatic experience of rape causes a woman to “secrete a certain secretion” that tends to kill sperm.
From NYT – March 1990 – Clayton Williams, running for governor of Texas, compared the cold, foggy weather at an event to a rape, telling ranch hands, campaign workers and reporters around a campfire, ”If it’s inevitable, just relax and enjoy it.’
From Raleigh N&O April 21, 1995 – Women do not get pregnant when raped because “the juices don’t flow, the body functions don’t work” during an attack, a state lawmaker said yesterday. Republican Representative Henry Aldridge made the remarks to the House Appropriations Committee as it debated a proposal to eliminate a state abortion fund for poor women.
During a 1998 Senate campaign in Arkansas, the Republican candidate Dr. Fay Boozman claimed that hormones generated by fear usually prevented rape victims from getting pregnant
January 2012 In an interview with CNN’s Piers Morgan, Republican candidate Rick Santorum said that when a woman becomes pregnant after being raped, the victim should not get an abortion, but instead welcome their “horrible gift from God” because “we have to make the best out of a bad situation.”
And now this…
###
Aquagirl
August 20th, 2012
8:14 pm
Channeling Phyllis Diller playing with the audience?
Phyllis Diller had 37 abortions? Wow, I didn’t know she was THAT uninhibited.
josef
August 20th, 2012
8:14 pm
Goober
Things have evidently changed…one of the liquor stores there now has a really good wine selection. Probably the best Cajun food I’ve had in Georgia at a place on Forest St. There’s a really good authentic Mexican place and a couple of good Chinese eateries.
gm
August 20th, 2012
8:14 pm
Wait till the debate when the media starts asking the rich golden boy Ryan, his views of abortion, and why he voted to defund parent planing hood, why the female hater voted against Ledbetter Act equal pay for women?
These right wing haters of women, voted against every bill in support of women, whats amazing how these idiot of rep women on the right support these female haters, this shows the mental state of these women”””
getalife
August 20th, 2012
8:16 pm
Does the right ever tell the truth?
Only one out of thirty was so drunk he got naked.
Recon 0311 2533
August 20th, 2012
8:17 pm
Jay, this guy was several points ahead when John Cornyn called him to let him know that the RNC wouldn’t be sending his campaign anymore money. Cornyn was followed by several Republicans including Romney condemning his comments. They all put the correct thing to do ahead of picking up what may have been the majority seat in the Senate.
Shovel Ready Jobs
August 20th, 2012
8:18 pm
“It makes the point about the inherent conflict in asserting when life begins yet citing some instances in which one person can have the moral authority to end that life.”
It makes that argument; it doesn’t make the case. People have a biblical, moral authority to take life in some instances. Show me where I am wrong in that. I spoke of other “positions” of the CC to illustrate how they have been, and can be, wrong. You saw that as a diversion. My point was that the CC argues positions wrongly because they mishandle the texts upon which those positions are staked. Asserting when life begins has no relation to the reasons life might be legitimately taken.
“I said early on I do not know when life begins. For me it’s more about viability.”
So your the agnostic who nonetheless take a stand in this debate. You are essentially saying life begins when the SCOTUS says its does.
“I’ve yet to hear liberals on this blog adopt the casual attitude conservatives charge them with.”
So who are all these people having abortions? Does one have to espouse a casual attitude about drinking and driving in order to get a DUI?
Shovel Ready Jobs
August 20th, 2012
8:19 pm
“Actually, they’re trying to force him out of the race in order to salvage their chances to take the Senate. But more power to ‘em anyway.”
Mind if I borrow your crystal ball sometime?
G Mare
August 20th, 2012
8:20 pm
Josef, where in the Pacific Northwest? I grew up in Portland & lived in Seattle for a year – probably way before your time. I am OLD, ya know.
USMC
August 20th, 2012
8:20 pm
Hey Scout!
How’s it going, Devil Dog?
Hope you are weathering Obama’s dismal “Trickle Up” Food stamp economy.
Doggone/GA
August 20th, 2012
8:21 pm
“So who are all these people having abortions?”
See, that one is EASY. It’s none of your business. And it’s none of mine either.
Brosephus™
August 20th, 2012
8:21 pm
Time to call it quits…
Y’all play nice with each other.
Doggone/GA
August 20th, 2012
8:23 pm
“Mind if I borrow your crystal ball sometime?”
“If Akin drops out of the race by tomorrow, the Missouri GOP could still pick another candidate. Akin has caused enough damage already. He should do the right thing and step aside and make room for somebody else while there’s still time.”
http://washingtonexaminer.com/why-todd-akin-should-step-aside/article/2505381
Recon 0311 2533
August 20th, 2012
8:24 pm
USMC,
Haven’t seen Scout on here for a few days but I’ve only been posting infrequently. Semper Fi
getalife
August 20th, 2012
8:24 pm
Time for the convention.
The circus is back in town.
They know how to party.
Shovel Ready Jobs
August 20th, 2012
8:24 pm
“How many atheists do you know, or know of, who support murder without penalty.”
You mean besides Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot (and who knows who else)?
“I can think of several RELIGIONS that believed in it.”
Given my previous statement, this silly attempt to disparage religion falls harmlessly to the ground.
josef
August 20th, 2012
8:24 pm
GMARE
Bellingham, Washington 1979-80. Never seen so many white people in my life!
The Puget Sound area is one of the most beautiful places I have ever been.
JamVet
August 20th, 2012
8:25 pm
…why the female hater voted against Ledbetter Act equal pay for women?
That is easy.
The cons think paying women less money for the same job is good for them. It teaches them humility and to be proper subjugates to their Christian/Islamic men. (Kind of a corollary to how the cons keep telling minorities that the people with their best interests at heart/best friends really are all Republicans but those people are just to dumb to see it.)
John Lennon had it right though, woman is the n-word of the world…
Shovel Ready Jobs
August 20th, 2012
8:25 pm
“See, that one is EASY. It’s none of your business.”
Your saying so doesn’t make it so. But you knew that, right?
“And it’s none of mine either.”
That is your choice.
Moderate Lin
August 20th, 2012
8:26 pm
My question is when is the left going to look at the reproductive rights of men? How is that a women has choice whether to have a child but if the woman decides to have one the man doesn’t have a choice. If she has the child he has to pay. Seems there is a logical inconsistency.
USMC
August 20th, 2012
8:26 pm
Today’s Lesson
The SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program)/Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is pleased to be distributing the greatest amount of free meals and food stamps ever.
Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S.
Department of the Interior, asks us to “Please Do Not Feed The Animals.” They say that this is because the animals may grow dependent on handouts and not learn to take care of themselves.
Thus endeth today’s lesson.
Orange12
August 20th, 2012
8:26 pm
As a Republican I must say this comment by Rep Akin has to go down “as snatching defeat from the jaws of victory” He had a double digit lead prior to this unfortunate event. The Republican party has disavowed him and now he is his challengers best friend. This guy needs a drug and alcohol test.
josef
August 20th, 2012
8:26 pm
GMARE
oops…that’s 1977 to 1980…
Paul
August 20th, 2012
8:26 pm
“People have a biblical, moral authority to take life in some instances. Show me where I am wrong in that.”
Not interested in following you down the rabbit hole, Harry.
“So your the agnostic ”
Never said I was an agnostic. You presume much.
“My point was that the CC argues positions wrongly because they mishandle the texts upon which those positions are staked. Asserting when life begins has no relation to the reasons life might be legitimately taken”
So you think life begins at conception and the state can grant to the woman the power to kill the baby for only the reason the state outlines, when the mother and the baby’s life is at risk? So in this case you default to killing the baby, not the mother and saving the baby? Or is it you leave it up to the mother in this case? So two lives are at risk and the one with the power gets to kill the other and that’s moral?
And you really don’t see the inconsistency in that?
I’m not around much longer. Then again, you haven’t, after numerous tries, really addressed that last point clearly and unequivocally.
G Mare
August 20th, 2012
8:26 pm
Julia, WORD!
By the way, grandchild #6 is named Julia, a lovely name & a lovely child. Okay, apropos of nothing, but just wanted to say it.
Old Goober
August 20th, 2012
8:28 pm
They all put the correct thing to do ahead of picking up what may have been the majority seat in the Senate.
Don’t count on Akin’s being out of it. Kevin Drum of Mother Jones, not exactly a conservative publication, predicts that the flap won’t have much impact on the race in three months’ time. Perhaps Akin will lose a point or two, but he will still beat McCaskill.
And that tells you about as much as you need to know about how far to the right Missouri has swung. See
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/08/can-todd-akin-survive-missouri
Doggone/GA
August 20th, 2012
8:28 pm
“Given my previous statement, this silly attempt to disparage religion falls harmlessly to the ground”
Should we take it then that you would support the religious practice of human sacrifice and not consider it religious murder?
“You mean besides Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot (and who knows who else)?”
They quite obviously committetd murder without penalty. But what were the laws of their country when it came to murders committed by OTHERS. A belief in the infalibility of your own motives is not neccessarily a support of murder by EVERYONE without penalty.
USMC
August 20th, 2012
8:28 pm
“Haven’t seen Scout on here for a few days but I’ve only been posting infrequently. Semper Fi”–Recon
Sorry Recon, I get you two mixed up sometimes. Hope all is well.
Semper Fidelis!
Orange12
August 20th, 2012
8:29 pm
I refuse to leave our children with a debt that they cannot repay. And that means taking responsibility right now, in this administration, for getting our spending under control.
“Remarks at the Fiscal Responsibility Summit.” By Barack Obama. Government
Printing Office, February 23, 2009.
Doggone/GA
August 20th, 2012
8:30 pm
“Your saying so doesn’t make it so”
And you thereby confirm that charge that conservative men want control of women’s bodies. It has nothing to do with saving a “life” It’s like a form of rape: it’s all about CONTROL.
Shovel Ready Jobs
August 20th, 2012
8:30 pm
“I lost count after 37. It’s just like having your nails done after a while.”
Can you have both done in the same place?
This has been another edition of Slam The Angry AND Bitter Woman Who Can’t Defend Her Actions And Thinks She’ll Win By Deflecting All Culpability To Talk About Her Uterus.
Doggone/GA
August 20th, 2012
8:31 pm
“How is that a women has choice whether to have a child but if the woman decides to have one the man doesn’t have a choice”
You have GOT to be kidding. Hon, all he has to do is WALK AWAY. He has complete and total control over whether he has sex with any woman. Complete and TOTAL.
josef
August 20th, 2012
8:32 pm
PAUL
So, now you’re an agnostic…have you left the Mormons?
getalife
August 20th, 2012
8:32 pm
30 drunk republicans swimming in the Sea of Galilee.
“You can’t just make stuff up.”
“Legitimate rape”
Are you trying to lose?
Shovel Ready Jobs
August 20th, 2012
8:33 pm
“And you thereby confirm that charge that conservative men want control of women’s bodies. It has nothing to do with saving a “life” It’s like a form of rape: it’s all about CONTROL.”
In your twisted imagination. Take a breath and remember that this is a democracy. We are all fighting to have things the way we think is right – including you.
oldfart
August 20th, 2012
8:34 pm
“Besides, you don’t need to resort to religious texts to conclude life begins at conception – because it obviously does (unless you think cells are not a form of life).”
300 million cells die every minute on average within the human body. As I already stated the sperm cell is alive as is the egg. To assert conclusively that “life” begins with their merger and thus adding one cell to the trillions already there seems to be a “bald assertion”. To assert that single cell is now a person with all of the protections that entails is ludicrous.
JamVet
August 20th, 2012
8:34 pm
“So who are all these people having abortions?”
See, that one is EASY. It’s none of your business. And it’s none of mine either.
Agreed, that is the purview of the GOP’s sex police.
But I guarandamntee you that millions of lawless Republican women are murdering (!!!) their unborn children every year in this country.
Here comes the sex police, they’re at your bedroom door
Movin’ in next door, searchin’ from floor to floor
You know what they’re lookin’ for
Someone’s always keepin’ score every time you dip the oar
Love isn’t fun no more
Fascist christ, come to the rescue
Gimme that old time religion, here it comes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8aJXzR3WyI
Doggone/GA
August 20th, 2012
8:34 pm
“Take a breath and remember that this is a democracy. ”
Rights are not subject to democratic vote.
Shovel Ready Jobs
August 20th, 2012
8:36 pm
“Should we take it then that you would support the religious practice of human sacrifice and not consider it religious murder?”
I would hope you know better than that. Murder is a human problem and NOT a distinctly religious one.
Paul
August 20th, 2012
8:37 pm
josef
and the Episcopalopians and the Pagans…
I’m gonna miss those naked dances in the moonlight….
G Mare
August 20th, 2012
8:37 pm
Josef, you were there long after I had left – I have been here since ‘75. Agree the Puget Sound area is amazingly beautiful – or at least it was. No telling what has happened to it since. I think Portland is at least attempting to hold it’s own against urban sprawl & the greedy corporations. And I think Washington State is trying to do the same. I so miss that part of the country, but kids & grands are here….
Moderate Lin
August 20th, 2012
8:39 pm
Brosephus™
August 20th, 2012
5:39
What we have instead, is a power play to determine who gets to impose their beliefs onto everyone else.
There is a certain amount of arrogance that’s displayed by many conservatives. I guess that’s just a part of being true to your convictions/beliefs.
+++++++
Why is either party trying win the election if not to After are the Democrats not trying to win elections to force their convictions/beliefs on the rest of us. Like ObamaCare which more people oppose than support. Increasing taxes to support wealth distribution. Forcing insurance companies to provide free birth control. etc.
The only group who doesn’t wish to impose their will on others through elections are libertarians. The Republicans want to impose their moral standards for TV and movies on all of us.
josef
August 20th, 2012
8:39 pm
PAUL
“I’m gonna miss those naked dances in the moonlight….”
Well, you might just find your home in the Republican Party…
Doggone/GA
August 20th, 2012
8:40 pm
Funny!
I said: “Except that’s backwards. Injunctions agains murder transcend any and all religions, even those that try to co-opt it as a religious “belief”
and you aid: “That cannot be shown conclusively (since we do not have all historical texts at our disposal). It is a bald assertion”
Then you said: “Murder is a human problem and NOT a distinctly religious one
Got the Etch-A-Sketch busy, don’t you?”
Ahem
August 20th, 2012
8:41 pm
An individual candidate affiliated with a particular party does not define the party, notwithstanding stupid remarks. If that is not the case, then how do Democrats explainn away Cynthia McKinney?
Ahem
August 20th, 2012
8:43 pm
And now back to the one thing that matters most and that which will end the Obama Experiment:
It’s the economy, stupid.
G Mare
August 20th, 2012
8:44 pm
Gee, Shovel, did somebody die & appoint you god in charge of women’s rights & bodies? I surmise that I am not alone in telling you to keep your paternalistic deity out of my body & my decisions.
TaxPayer
August 20th, 2012
8:45 pm
“Help! I’ve dug too deep and I can’t get out!” – Shovel Ready(lol)
G Mare
August 20th, 2012
8:45 pm
Oh, forgot MYSOGINISTIC.
josef
August 20th, 2012
8:46 pm
GMARE
From what I’ve seen and heard from up that way, they’ve done a pretty good job of keeping it “G-d’s Country.” I miss it a lot in the summer. I don’t miss it at all in the winter! When I was up there, one of the signs you saw a lot was “Don’t Californicate Washington.” Oregon had a good one, too: “Welcome to Oregon. Spend your money, and go home.”
Ahem
August 20th, 2012
8:47 pm
And another thing, if anyone, rapee included, does not want the child, there are people that do. Getting raped would be awful and caring the resulting child a huge burden on many fronts, but should the creation be made to pay? I really don’t know, but it does make me wonder and NO, I do not care to discuss the matter. I am just thinking out loud and ask for your collective forgiveness.
Paul
August 20th, 2012
8:48 pm
josef
It’s a new religion!
Republicalopian!
Naked water dances in the moonlight coming to a convention near You!