Charter-school issue a drain on public education
Note: This post contains material published here earlier. It is posted here as the electronic version of my Sunday AJC column.
“The provision of an adequate public education for the citizens shall be a primary obligation of the State of Georgia. Public education for the citizens prior to the college or post-secondary level shall be free and shall be provided for by taxation.”
— Article VIII, Section I of the Georgia Constitution
As the Georgia Constitution makes clear, public education is supposed to be a primary obligation of state government. Yet in the 2009-1010 school year, legislators financed just 37.8 percent of the cost of educating Georgia students, leaving local government to cover most of the remainder.
It wasn’t always this way. In fact, 20 years ago, the state financed 51.2 percent of the cost of educating Georgia students, leaving local governments to pick up 37.8 percent. (The remainder is covered by federal dollars.) As recently as 10 years ago, the state still honored its constitutional obligation by picking up considerably more of the cost than local governments. But that changed rather quickly beginning in 2003-2004. That year — the first year in which Republicans controlled the state budgeting process — the state share of financing education fell significantly, and it has continued to fall ever since. The trend has allowed state elected leaders to portray themselves as fiscal conservatives while also chastising “free-spending” officials at the local level who have to raise school property taxes to compensate.
But here’s the galling part: As state leaders shirk the primary obligation assigned them under the constitution, they continue to take an ever-more-intrusive approach on non-financial aspects of education. The most obvious current example is the constitutional amendment that will appear on the November ballot. If approved by voters, the amendment will give state officials full legal authority to create local charter schools even over the protest of locally elected school officials, and to finance those schools with hundreds of millions of dollars in additional state money.
Noting that additional cost and the state’s existing failure to adequately fund public schools, state schools superintendent John Barge, a Republican, came out this week against the proposal. “Until all of our public school students are in school for a full 180-day school year, until essential services like student transportation and student support can return to effective levels, and until teachers regain jobs with full pay for a full school year, we should not redirect one more dollar away from Georgia’s local school districts — much less an additional $430 million in state funds, which is what it would cost to add seven new state charter schools per year over the next five years,” Barge explained.
Local school boards already are creating charter schools around the state as they deem fit, with local voters paying close attention. In Cherokee County, for example, charter-school advocates complained bitterly when the county school board blocked creation of a charter school. They targeted the school board chairman for defeat, hoping to replace her with a charter-school advocate, but they failed. Last month Cherokee voters re-elected that chairman by a large margin, in effect endorsing her cautious approach to charters.
The proposed amendment is intended to strip local officials — and local voters — of the right to make such decisions, placing that power instead in the hands of state officials who are already failing to meet their minimal constitutional obligation to education.
– Jay Bookman
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398 comments Add your comment
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
1:42 pm
I agree with you on this Jay.
Taxes need to go to public education.
G Mare
August 19th, 2012
1:44 pm
You are right, Jay. Thank you.
Thulsa Doom- "exalted board leader"
August 19th, 2012
2:02 pm
I think the federal govt’s dept of education should take over. They do such a wonderful job at everything else and on only a 25 billion dollar a year budget.
Mary Elizabeth
August 19th, 2012
2:14 pm
The national Republican ideological agenda has been to disparage traditional public schools so that more private educational corporations (based on profit) can move into the educational field/market for financial gain. Studies, such as the Stanford Study, have shown that charter schools on the average do not fare better than traditional public schools, and many do not perform as well as do traditional public schools. Some are of poor quality. Some are not even monitored for quality.
However, traditional public education does need to change and improve, but it needs to do so, primarily, from within through fully understanding and implementing sound instructional principles such as (1) mastery learning, (2) continuous academic progress of each student according to his or her potential to master instructional concepts at point in time, (3) improving discipline, and (4) supporting of teachers in achieving those ends. Public charter schools might help to improve traditional public education, also, but they must work in collaboration with local school districts and with traditional public schools, not in competition against them. Most importantly, their ultimate goal must be to improve the calibre of students under their care, not the financial gain of their proprietors.
There is no need for an amendment to Georgia’s Constitution because there is already a means for parents to appeal the decision of their local Board of Education not to grant the establishment of a specific charter school in their district. As stated by state Superintendent of Schools John Barge, parents may appeal directly to Georgia’s State Board of Education, and specifically to the state Superintendent of Schools, who will mediate differences between parents and local Boards of Education. (I wish to express, again, a public thank you to Dr. Barge for his courageous stand in behalf of ALL of the school children in Georgia.)
http://maryelizabethsings.wordpress.com/2012/08/16/a-monumental-choice-for-americas-future-character-and-destiny/
Happy Walker
August 19th, 2012
2:19 pm
liberals care nothing about educating children it is all about spending money to buy votes. Harsh but all the evidence says this is true.
Mary Elizabeth
August 19th, 2012
2:19 pm
Wrong link in my above post. I had meant to share the following link, which gives more detailed information on “Mastery Learning”:
https://maryelizabethsings.wordpress.com/2012/01/15/about-education-essay-1-mastery-learning/
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 19th, 2012
2:23 pm
The Republicans are the party that says government doesn’t work and then they get elected and prove it.” — P.J. O’Rourke
Happy Walker
August 19th, 2012
2:36 pm
The new public schools that I have seen recently built don’t suggest a shortage of money.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
2:37 pm
There is no better way to prove something doesn’t work than to continuously strip funding while claiming that too much money is already being spent with nothing to show for it.
After one more generation of this stuff, we’ll be so undereducated as a country, low wage jobs will be received as manna from heaven. There will be very few that will have an education sufficient enough to know how to plug a lamp into an electrical outlet without harming themselves.
Woodstock Mike
August 19th, 2012
2:41 pm
When you see these rediculous comments from Democrats on this blog it’s so revealing to how out of touch with reality they are. Here’s a simple fact. Children are better educated today in America than ever before in our country. There are more highschool and college graduates now (even when you factor in population growth) than ever before in our country. So Democrats, what were you saying again about how terrible America is?
Thomas
August 19th, 2012
2:42 pm
Other than being able to kill bad guys remotely with a drone the gov’t on all levels has been an abysmal failure. The leftist are continuing to try to push a failed model. The great Amercian taxpayer (fewer every day) is tired of paying for lobster while having rabbit turds thrown at them.
Cut the cutesy monikers such as no child left behind and dramatically change the system of providing education such as the stone aged approach of bricks and mortar and move forward. Until then folks will figure out work ways to work around the failed system we have now.
Jay- thank you for the local story.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 19th, 2012
2:45 pm
When you see these rediculous[sic] comments from Democrats on this blog it’s so revealing to how out of touch with reality they are.
Oh, the irony.
tinkerella
August 19th, 2012
2:51 pm
Gotta keep folks dumb enough to keep voting these idiots in office. None of these guys EVER sent their kids to public schools so they really don’t care about educating our kids. The corporations that want to take it all over can sniff out a a deep money train from the government meanwhile their lobbyists line the legislators’ pockets to try to stuff this down our throats by passing folks the line of “school choice”. Really? You think your kid is going to be lucky enough to get into these schools? They will find a way to keep ‘em out. You want real choice, home school.
Woodstock Mike
August 19th, 2012
2:51 pm
Another thing to, if I hear another Democrat talk about tax returns I’m gonna puke. It’s really appalling that uneducated Democrats are taken advantage of and force fed a bunch of garbage from the Obama adminisration to gain votes. It’s as if Democrats think that rich Democrats pay more in taxes than rich Republicans. It’s as if Democrats think profit or capital gain are bad words. This moron yesterday was making an argument that Mitt Romney made millions from investments and it wasn’t fair because he didn’t “work” for this income? What do Democrats think about gains on Americans 401K retirement plans. Do the employees “work” for these gains? Do Democrats think these gains are unfair? The idea that there shouldn’t be any incentives to invest money or any incentives to do business in America is so incredibly dumb and clearly shows how naive Democrats are to how business works. When a Democrat says how can a corporation not pay federal income taxes they seem to forget that these corporations are who employ the majority of Americans. Even if you don’t work directly for a major corporation businesses are tied together in many different ways. So Democrats believe that these corporations who provide for millions of Americans should be given absolutely no incentives at all. Wow, that’s truly brilliant!
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
2:52 pm
The new public schools that I have seen recently built don’t suggest a shortage of money.
One only needs to ask themselves whether or not the school is paid in full at the time it’s completed or if bonds have been floated for upteen years to understand why it would appear there is no shortage of money when that is not the case in reality.
—————————
Children are better educated today in America than ever before in our country. There are more highschool and college graduates now (even when you factor in population growth) than ever before in our country.
When you consider the technological advances made in the past 30 years, that’s not hard to figure out. I wouldn’t necessarily say that children are better educated today either. Children have access to better aids in learning that may give the appearance they’re better educated. When I was entering high school almost 20 years ago, it was taboo to have a calculator in math class. Graphing calculators were just coming into the market as well. Nowadays, there’s maybe 3 students that don’t have calculators.
So Democrats, what were you saying again about how terrible America is?
Nothing says “I can’t refute your essay, Jay” better than throwing out hyperbole on the first page and within the first 10 posts.
G Mare
August 19th, 2012
2:52 pm
Kam@2:45,
gadem
August 19th, 2012
2:52 pm
Woodstock, we live in a global economy. We may be a better educated America, but the world is far better educated than we are now. In order to be able to compete we must invest in education. Businesses hire those that are best qualified, not just those that are American.
Woodstock Mike
August 19th, 2012
2:52 pm
“When you see these rediculous[sic] comments from Democrats on this blog it’s so revealing to how out of touch with reality they are.
Oh, the irony.”
This is a true Democrat. Make some kind of sarcastic comment and provide zero information. What a joke.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
August 19th, 2012
2:53 pm
Well, we’re in a rain delay up here,dang it, and I just got to put in my two cents worth on this schooling junk. I think schooling is over-rated. Just look at most of the people on this blog. They can’t spell and can’t cipher but they know the solution to every problem we got. That more or less proves you don’t need schools to do good in this world.
If I could just have the money I have to pay for schools I could teach little Nathan Zell George the things he needs to know—like how to change spark plugs and run a chainsaw and how to shoot good. But no, I got to pay taxe so these pointy-heads can get in the way of us going to NASCAR races and such. And they’ll lock you up if you don’t send your kids, at least till they’re 16.
As for charter vs. regular schools, I guess I favor charter because if you’re going to have the things, somebody might as well make a profit on them and charter lets folks that own the schools do that. Otherwise, they can all go hang. Ever notice that the only new cars on the road have those Educator tags on them? That ought to tell you something.
Have a good Sabbath everybody. Now watch this drive!
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
2:55 pm
It’s really appalling that uneducated Democrats…
This, from a poster who’s already had…“rediculous” and “adminisration” pop up from his keyboard in 10 minutes. Before calling someone uneducated or blasting education, it would help if you used spellcheck before posting. That is, unless you’re secretly some secret uneducated Democrat.
Woodstock Mike
August 19th, 2012
2:57 pm
“We may be a better educated America, but the world is far better educated than we are now. In order to be able to compete we must invest in education.”
Not sure what you mean by the world is far better education than American. Where? Europe is in shambles, China is showing signs of weakening, and American companies still completely dominate the world… You make a great point though, the global ecomomy is much more competitive, if you aren’t educated it’s more difficult now to make a living. And in America we have an increasing amount of our population that are too lazy to get educated, too lazy to work, they can only survive by government entitlements. This is becoming a major issue.
David Farrior
August 19th, 2012
2:58 pm
Life Force. a charter school in Dunedin, Fl. is a great example of a charter school disaster. This
institution catered to low income minority students and received approximately one million dollars
annually from the Pinellas Bd. of Education. Teacher’s were paid at the substuite rate and had
no benefits. There was no money allloted for instructional materials, school maintence and
custodial expenses. Needless to say, the Headmaster and Board of Directors were well
compensated in the amount of several hundred thousands of dollars. The curriculum was
furnished by the Church of Scientiology. Academic achievement was minimal.
Fortunately, the Tampa Bay Times did a Sunday Front pate expose on school this spring
and Supt. and School Board closed Life Force at the end of this school year.
Woodstock Mike
August 19th, 2012
2:58 pm
“This, from a poster who’s already had…“rediculous” and “adminisration” pop up from his keyboard in 10 minutes. Before calling someone uneducated or blasting education, it would help if you used spellcheck before posting. That is, unless you’re secretly some secret uneducated Democrat.”
I type fast and don’t care about spell check. But, once again, another sarcastic comment from a Democrat with nothing to say…
Woodstock Mike
August 19th, 2012
2:59 pm
Brosephus-
And guess what, using spellcheck hadly means you are educated, just an FYI…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 19th, 2012
2:59 pm
“When spell-check is outlawed, only outlaws will have spell-check.”
– Thomas Jefferson
Woodstock Mike
August 19th, 2012
3:05 pm
I bet you Democrats are so proud of Obama accusing Mitt Romeny of killing someone. You must be proud of Obama when he says Paul Ryan doesn’t want elderly people to have health care, he wants to just leave them to die… LOL
When Democrats make these statements (and when the President of the United States sponsors these kinds of campaign adds) it really shows their true colors.
Bernie
August 19th, 2012
3:09 pm
This entire plan is being proposed, presented and with full throated support from the The Republican Party. The Party we have been always TOLD, in no uncertain terms of a un-compromisable belief of:
* Less Government,
* Less Government intrusion into our personal lives,
* Less Government in supporting of local school board decisions over local
educational needs,(Because, they are closer and know better the needs of the
community),
* Less Government mandates of BIG GOVERNMENT run programs, that
continually to waste taxpayers money.
Now, they (Republicans) want All of US to vote and support the Governor’s proposal to move forward with a $430 million “New” State Funded “Welfare” Education Program that will SURELY NOT DELIVER, as claimed or as promised. While
purposely and with great intent to further decimate the current Public Education systems and budgets, ALL over Georgia.
Futher more, this untested and unproven State wide Charter School Plan will only Benefit a very small select few of Georgia’s students, while ignoring the most basic needs for the MAJORITY of Georgia’s student population. Nothing about this Plan says ” THIS IS A SMART MOVE! . Especially now, when there is such STATE WIDE economic distress ongoing.
Hello Mississippi !…….Our students along with the rest of Georgia will be joining you shortly, in the Race to be First to the Bottom!
Faster, than you can say ” One Chick-Fil-A sandwich Meal with fries and a Large Sweet Tea, Please!”
Mary Elizabeth
August 19th, 2012
3:10 pm
As the front page of today’s AJC points out, Georgia’s graduation rate is 67.4%. (The lowest rate of the seven Southern states that reported.) That means that 1/3 of Georgia’s students are not graduating from high school. Yet, over four billion dollars have been cut from Georgia’s legislative funding for public education in the past decade. Improvement in public education must happen. I urge serious readers of educational matters to reread my post of 2:14 pm, and my link provided at 2:19 pm, for substantive solutions to improving public education throughout the state.
Encouraging Georgia’s Legislature to address poverty effectively so that students will not invariably enter kindergarten and/or first grade far behind their peers academically – which will create wide instructional variances in the early elementary years – is another substantive solution to Georgia’s high dropout rate.
Georgia certainly does not need a State Commission for Charter Schools which will end up drawing more money from traditional public schools through authorizing more privately implemented charter schools, which may use children for profit. (See my next post for details about this.) Vote “No” on the amendment to Georgia’s Constitution in November.
Woodstock Mike
August 19th, 2012
3:12 pm
This education topic shows the real difference in Democrats and Republicans. Of course Democrats are sitting back blaming the government for their failures in the public school system. Children’s education starts at the home. I know teachers in Cobb county, by far and away most children that struggle have major issues at the home. It’s sad when Democrats want to blame the government for their own failures in educating their children. My son goes to a public school in Cherokee county and I couldn’t be happier. The teachers and administration do an incredible job. The school has done fantastic on their state tests in all grade levels. But if you read a few quotes from these Democrats you’d think Georgia public schools were a disaster which simply isn’t anywhere close to being the truth.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
3:12 pm
I type fast and don’t care about spell check. But, once again, another sarcastic comment from a Democrat with nothing to say…
Not a Democrat, so thanks for proving your failure once again. What you consider sarcastic is simply me pointing out the truth. You’re the one coming here pissing vinegar about education and can’t even spell worth a flip.
And guess what, using spellcheck hadly means you are educated, just an FYI…
Nope it doesn’t, but not being able to turn it own does show that you can’t click a simple button. I also have enough of an education to not come here calling a group of people uneducated and prove my uneducatedness at the same time in one fell swoop. Keep flailing though. You’re good entertainment after a rough day at work. I need a good laugh.
Woodstock Mike
August 19th, 2012
3:14 pm
“As the front page of today’s AJC points out, Georgia’s graduation rate is 67.4%. (The lowest rate of the seven Southern states that reported.)”
Mary Elizabeth, you seem like you know quite a bit about this issue. So, do you blame the government for a 67.4% graduation rate or the kids parents who didn’t care if they went to school or not?
Mary Elizabeth
August 19th, 2012
3:14 pm
Please read the following excerpt, from the link below, to better understand the business interest in profit that exists within the current national drive toward more charter schools:
=====================================================
“While nonprofit charter schools are more pervasive than their for-profit counterparts, for the quarter of charters that are for-profit, the obvious problem is that the drive to make a profit will compromise educational quality. And for-profits and non-profits are under similar pressure to expand as quickly as possible.
Edison Schools Incorporated is one of the largest for-profit charter school companies. It ran twenty schools in Philadelphia alone until it was discredited this year. With board members like John Chubb of the Hoover Institution and Brookings Institution, it made a bald-faced attempt to turn millions of dollars in profits by controlling 157 schools. (Not very successfully, though; it was traded on the NASDAQ for four years but only showed one quarter of profitability.33) The most fundamental problem with a private model of education is that a company’s profits depend directly on cost-cutting. The cheaper the services they provide, just as in private prisons and hospitals, the more profit they turn. So there is always an incentive to do things on the cheap—poorly maintained physical plant and equipment, low pay for teachers and other staff, and larger class sizes mean bigger rates of return.
The dynamic works in fundamentally similar ways with nonprofit entities. The pressure to cut costs in order to have money left over for expansion forces nonprofit entities to act in a similar fashion to their for-profit cousins. Every nonprofit charter operator is under immense pressure right now to expand as quickly as possible and to measure success by how quickly they are able to replicate themselves. The newest mandate from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is that we need to close thousands of broken inner-city schools and replace them with charters. There is fierce competition over who will get the contracts, especially among nonprofits. And nonprofits are, of course, allowed to pay their administrators very high salaries as well as keeping a small profit.
And then there is corruption. Celerity, a nonprofit charter school that made an attempt to co-locate on the campus of Wadsworth Elementary in Los Angeles, contracts out all its services to a for-profit firm, Nova, run by the same owner. This backdoor model—of a nonprofit funneling dollars to a separate, for-profit entity—is common. Kent Fischer explained it in the St. Petersburg Times:
The profit motive drives business…. More and more, it’s driving Florida school reform. The vehicle: charter schools. This was not the plan. These schools were to be “incubators of innovation,” free of the rules that govern traditional districts. Local school boards would decide who gets the charters, which spell out how a school will operate and what it will teach. To keep this deal, lawmakers specified that only nonprofit groups would get charters. But six years later, profit has become pivotal…. For-profit corporations create nonprofit foundations to obtain the charters, and then hire themselves to run the schools.34
Whether it’s technically legal, ‘contracting out’ or direct corruption and profiteering, abounds. In their article ‘The Corporate Surge Against Public Schools,’ Steven Miller and Jack Gerson cite many cases of such corruption. Brenda Belton, charter oversight chief for the D.C. Board of Education, admitted to arranging $650,000 in sweetheart contracts for herself and her friends, and C. Steven Cox, CEO of a large chain of charter schools in California, was indicted on 113 felony counts of misappropriating public funds.35″
http://www.isreview.org/issues/62/feat-charterschools.shtml
Woodstock Mike
August 19th, 2012
3:15 pm
Brosephus-
I didn’t realize this was a spelling test. I will make sure to proof read for you. LOL
Guess what, I was a good speller in school, can you believe it?? And I have a college degree, wow, isn’t that unbelievable??
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
3:16 pm
Bro – no ABM
How about LBM (laughing black man)
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
3:16 pm
If the State of Georgia has shirked it’s Constitutional duty to provide for the education of its children, why, then didn’t we have a concomitant reduction in the state income tax? What are they doing with the extra money since they’re not spending it on education? They sure as hell aren’t spending it on infrastructure.
Thank goodness, I only have a few more years of “education” tax on my property. Hallelujah!
Woodstock Mike
August 19th, 2012
3:17 pm
Mary Elizabeth -
Who’s fault is it for a 67.4% graduation rate? The government or the parents? Who is more at fault? Please answer.
JKL2
August 19th, 2012
3:18 pm
brosephus- After one more generation of this stuff, we’ll be so undereducated as a country, low wage jobs will be received as manna from heaven. There will be very few that will have an education sufficient enough to know how to plug a lamp into an electrical outlet without harming themselves.
Maybe we could work on getting a better product to send to school. With no family structure to push the child to get an education, the kid could care less about how they do in school. No amount of money spent on fancy buildings and digital classrooms will educate a kid who doesn’t want to be there.
It is doing wonders for filling our prison system though….
TaxPayer
August 19th, 2012
3:21 pm
I see the Georgia high school dropout rate is higher now that it is being measured more accurately. Isn’t there a tax cut that will fix that too.
bob
August 19th, 2012
3:21 pm
Why can’t we educate kids in APS at 15K a pop ? Why can we educate kids at St. Pius for 10K a year ? If repubs are stripping money from pulbic education I would like to see a year when expendietures actually go down, then I will believe it.
Jay
August 19th, 2012
3:25 pm
Tuition at St. Pius and per-pupil costs in APS are roughly the same.
The student bodies they serve are not similar.
Jay
August 19th, 2012
3:27 pm
And while nobody argues that Georgia schools are good enough, the fact remains that they have improved significantly. Those who claim that today’s schools are worse than those of a generation ago have little to no statistical evidence to back that up.
Two things have changed in that generation:
1. The minimum level of education needed to prosper has increased, and
2. The economic consequences of not attaining that level of education have also increased.
Mary Elizabeth
August 19th, 2012
3:28 pm
“Mary Elizabeth, you seem like you know quite a bit about this issue. So, do you blame the government for a 67.4% graduation rate or the kids parents who didn’t care if they went to school or not?”
======================================
I am not about “blaming”; I am about “improving.” There are no simple answers to your question posed, and substantive answers cannot be found through seeing only in terms of the two-choice dichotomy which you present. If you want to explore possibilities for educational improvement in more depth, then I urge you to read my link which provided at 2:19 pm on “Mastery Learning,” which will explain instructional truths in detail. The populace in the state of Georgia who want meaningful improvement in public education – including teachers, parents, administrators, State Board of Education personnel, and legislators – must address the instructional truths which I have presented in my 2:19 pm link, if they want to see sustained improvement in the academic standing of all of Georgia’s school children, permanently over time.
JKL2
August 19th, 2012
3:29 pm
mary elizabeth- The profit motive drives business…. More and more, it’s driving Florida school reform. The vehicle: charter schools
So let me get this straight. Greedy corporations can create charter schools that educate children at the same level as public schools for the same price or cheaper. Therefore, your professional educators in the public schools are wasting extreme amounts of money. We should be working to decrease their funding instead of listening to all whining about how they are all going broke.
Woodstock Mike
August 19th, 2012
3:30 pm
It’s truly amazing to hear Democrats blame the government for high school drop out rates. There’s always an exception but by far and away PARENTS are to blame if they allow their 14-18 year old child quit school. Blaming the government for your own kid quitting school, that’s pathetic.
TM
August 19th, 2012
3:31 pm
If its the State’s responsibility to pay for the education of the kids then we should let them pay for it and abolish all local school boards. Don’t need local school boards it its the primary obligation of the State.
Mr_B
August 19th, 2012
3:32 pm
Woodstock:
“Children are better educated today in America than ever before in our country. There are more highschool and college graduates now (even when you factor in population growth) than ever before in our country. So Democrats, what were you saying again about how terrible America is?
I don’t know of anyone on the Democratic side of the aisle that claims American education is terrible. It’s the Republicans who can’t stand “throwing money at failing public schools.” Our kids are better educated than ever before, and they damn well better be. There are plenty of other countries around the world that are ready to eat our cornflakes if we take our eyes off the goal of educating all our students; not just the ones with committed and involved parents, but the kids that are functionally homeless, the kids who have already made bad choices, and the kids that never got to make any choices at all.
It’s hard work that takes a lot of dedication and sometimes it also takes money. But if we fail to do it, you’re going to be looking for protection from the kids that we decided weren’t worth it to educate.
Jay
August 19th, 2012
3:32 pm
So let me get this straight. Greedy corporations can create charter schools that educate children at the same level as public schools for the same price or cheaper.
Actually, they can’t. Your argument falls apart from the beginning.
Woodstock Mike
August 19th, 2012
3:33 pm
“I am not about “blaming”; I am about “improving”
Thanks Mary Elizabeth, I am also about improving, this is why I encrourage parents to spend time with their children, do their homework with them, read with them, encourage them to do well in school, reward them when they do well, please don’t sit back and think the government is going to educate your child for you.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
3:34 pm
Guess what, I was a good speller in school, can you believe it?? And I have a college degree, wow, isn’t that unbelievable??
Nope, it’s not unbelievable. Here on the internet, we can be whomever we want to be. I could be the director of the NSA listening in to your conversations.
However, I tend to take people at their words, so I guess it’s believeable that you accomplished both of those things. Kudos to you!!
————————–
It is doing wonders for filling our prison system though….
Really??
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2009/02/sentencing-children-for-kickbacks.php
Last week, a story emerged from Luzerne County, in northwest Pennsylvania: Mark Ciavarella and Michael Conahan, two powerful local judges, pled guilty in federal court to corruption charges. They had taken $2.6 million in kickbacks from a private company running detention facilities. In return for the money, the judges kept the company’s facilities brimming with inmates, and the local government paid the company a generous amount per incarcerated person. Everyone involved got rich, and the taxpayers got robbed.
But the worst part was not the obvious dishonesty and greed that motivated these judges to sell their robes, or even that they profited by incarcerating people who did not belong there. The worst part was that these were detention centers for juveniles. Ciavarella and Conahan filled these prisons with children. They made money by taking kids guilty of minor crimes – setting up an online satire of an assistant principal, stealing a $4 bottle of nutmeg, getting into a fight with another kid –and putting them into these juvenile prisons. The evidence so far indicates that Judge Ciavarella was two and a half times more likely to incarcerate kids than other judges in Pennsylvania were. And he and Judge Conahan made money – lots of money – doing this.
And we both know that those are the only two judges to ever do such a dastardly deed.
Mr_B
August 19th, 2012
3:37 pm
“Greedy corporations can create charter schools that educate children at the same level as public schools for the same price or cheaper.”
Except that they don’t. Check out Bibb County’s experience with Edison Schools.
TaxPayer
August 19th, 2012
3:38 pm
It’s truly amazing to hear Democrats blame the government for high school drop out rates.
Wow! Did someone really do that. That’s really amazing.
Mary Elizabeth
August 19th, 2012
3:41 pm
To be more fully informed regarding the politics behind the Amendment of Georgia’s Consitution to establish a special State Commission for Charter Schools (which would be appointed, not elected), I urge readers to read the following article, in full, written by Jack Hassard, a writer and Professor Emeritus of Science Education, Georgia State University, from the link which I provide, below. Here is an excerpt from Professor Hassard’s article:
————————————————————-
“One of the consequences if the charter amendment passes is the loss of local control of some educational policies. If the amendment is approved, then the state commission will run a parallel school system that will take more than $400 million from the already stretched education budget in the state. Money and decision-making are at the heart of the charter school issue in Georgia, not the improvement of education or options for parents and students.
If the Georgia charter amendment is approved it will result in an increase in politics and influence peddling in the context of multimillion dollar opportunities by establishing charter schools in various counties in each state. Real estate investment firms will find a pot of gold here.. Firms will come in to buy land and/or empty buildings (schools, factories) and then in turn lease them to for-profit charter school management companies, such as. . . Academica, or Charter Schools USA. Boston recently worked out a deal in the interests of corporate investors.”
———————————————————————–
Please read the article, in full, below:
http://www.artofteachingscience.org/2012/08/18/give-charters-we/
Mr_B
August 19th, 2012
3:41 pm
“Who’s fault is it for a 67.4% graduation rate? The government or the parents? Who is more at fault? Please answer.”
Meaningless question.
Ask instead “What can we do to adequately educate every child?”
Locally approved and controlled charters might be the answer in some localities. If so, the local parents decide and decide how to pay for them.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
3:44 pm
Jay @ 3:27
You would also have to account for advances in technology. Kids are also having to learn different things that nobody thought about in previous generations.
JKL2
August 19th, 2012
3:47 pm
mary elizabeth- Encouraging Georgia’s Legislature to address poverty effectively so that students will not invariably enter kindergarten and/or first grade far behind their peers academically
Bringing a whole new meaning to “nanny state”.
TM
August 19th, 2012
3:48 pm
Those who want Charter schools can’t afford private schools and want a free hand out from the State. If they would support the local school with the same enthusiasm there would be success.
USMC
August 19th, 2012
3:50 pm
“Charter-school issue a drain on public education”–Jay Bookman
Tell that to the families in Grant Park who have had to create charter schools to educate their children.
Once again, as usual, Jay Bookman finds himself on the wrong side of the issue.
So I guess Jay Bookman is continuing to protect the Atlanta Public Schools and other corrupt entities. Surprised??? No.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
3:50 pm
My take on the lack of parental involvement boils down to the stress the parents are under.
With the economy upside down for the last 10 years parents are working longer hours, sometimes 2 and 3 jobs to keep food on the table and a roof over their childrens heads.
Where is the time available to spend the time necessary to help the children at home?
Yes, all parents need to find some time working with their children. If we gut the public education budget in favor or charter schools and the charter schools fail to educate where will we be?
I went to a Catholic school through the 8th grade and my parents also paid taxes to the public school system. That has always been the model that has worked. Parents make the SACRIFICE to put their children in private schools not EXPECT the government to subsidize their CHOICE.
IMO
ByteMe
August 19th, 2012
3:51 pm
You would also have to account for advances in technology. Kids are also having to learn different things that nobody thought about in previous generations.
My 6-year-old is in a school program that will have her creating a PowerPoint presentation before the end of the school year. Us “old folks” are struggling with that one here….
USMC
August 19th, 2012
3:52 pm
“Those who want Charter schools can’t afford private schools and want a free hand out from the State. If they would support the local school with the same enthusiasm there would be success.”TM
TM you are obviously ignorant to the realities of the inner city schools here in Atlanta.
Grant Park is a great example of why Charter Schools are needed.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
3:52 pm
NoCom @ 3:50
Didn’t go to private school, but I agree with you 100%. LBM is happy!!
ByteMe
August 19th, 2012
3:52 pm
Tell that to the families in Grant Park who have had to create charter schools to educate their children.
USMC once again fails to grasp the issue. Grant Park created the charter school… not the state of Georgia. Why do you want to give the state the money and power to do what the local people can already do if they identify the need?
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
3:52 pm
Those who want Charter schools can’t afford private schools and want a free hand out from the State. If they would support the local school with the same enthusiasm there would be success.”
I couldn’t agree more.
But, the real issue is not charter vs. public schools. The Fright-Wing want taxpayers to subsidize their Christian schools in violation of separation of Church and State.
Try this out: if you want to send your children to Christian schools, you should be willing to pay for it yourself. Don’t expect me to chip in.
JKL2
August 19th, 2012
3:52 pm
Mr_B- Ask instead “What can we do to adequately educate every child?”
Get better parents. It used be an embarrassment to have a bastard child. Now the left encourages it.
Jay
August 19th, 2012
3:53 pm
USMC, the Grant Park charter school was created with the full approval of APS, which demonstrates that the current system works. You are attempting to lecture beyond your knowledge base.
TM
August 19th, 2012
3:54 pm
Last I looked Grant Park had 2 or 3 elementary schools. Whats the problem?
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
3:56 pm
Oh, and guess what? This Constitutional amendment is going to meet the same fate as that TSPLOST proposal.
ByteMe
August 19th, 2012
3:57 pm
This Constitutional amendment is going to meet the same fate as that TSPLOST proposal.
Only if people are educated on it, because the wording of the amendment is intentionally vague and confusing.
USMC
August 19th, 2012
3:58 pm
Jay, you said Charter Schools are a drain on public education.
I merely pointed out that they are very successful in the inner city neighborhoods.
You have argued against Charter Schools. I am arguing for them.
I think your limited background knowledge of Atlanta’s public schools and your backing of a corrupt system hurts your credibility.
Not every kid in the city of Atlanta can go to Grady, Jay.
JKL2
August 19th, 2012
3:59 pm
soothsayer- Try this out: if you want to send your children to Christian schools, you should be willing to pay for it yourself. Don’t expect me to chip in
Why do you hate children so much? Doesn’t everyone deserve an education?
ByteMe
August 19th, 2012
3:59 pm
Somehow voting for an amendement worded to say “I love sunshine and rainbows” is the same as voting for letting the state send $430 million to private corporations for schools no one wants.
ByteMe
August 19th, 2012
4:02 pm
No, USMC, that’s not what Jay argued at all. You really need to work on your reading comprehension skills. It’s just making you look bad.
USMC
August 19th, 2012
4:02 pm
“soothsayer- Try this out: if you want to send your children to Christian schools, you should be willing to pay for it yourself. Don’t expect me to chip in”-Soothsayer
Yeah, I am sure Soothsayer really “chips in” a ton of money for education. LOL!
TM
August 19th, 2012
4:02 pm
“I think your limited background knowledge of Atlanta’s public schools and your backing of a corrupt system hurts your credibility.”
I don’t think you want to go there….It appears you are the one who doesn’t know how to improve a school without begging for a hand out.
Jay
August 19th, 2012
4:03 pm
The proposed amendment, as I explain above, would give the state the power to overrule local school boards regarding charters, USMC.
Citing a locally approved charter as evidence for the need of state-approved charters is nonsensical. Instead, your “evidence” is proof that the current system works just fine.
USMC
August 19th, 2012
4:03 pm
“No, USMC, that’s not what Jay argued at all. You really need to work on your reading comprehension skills. It’s just making you look bad.”–Byteme
Not to worry Bite me. I’m not too concerned about your opinion.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
4:04 pm
It seems to me that if every county gets several Charter Schools it will make them compete.
Not with the level of their education but for the very students (and their parents). That will mean increased ADVERTISING budgets for the schools.
Or it will increase the possibilities of bribes at the state level.
Maybe the politicians need a new revenue stream with the new ethics law being voted on. LOL
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
4:07 pm
Maybe the politicians need a new revenue stream with the new ethics law being voted on. LOL
There is THAT possibility.
USMC
August 19th, 2012
4:08 pm
Jay has argued against Charter Schools in the past and now is changing his tune.
Most of Jay’s articles contain his nonsensical rubbish; Illegal Immigration, Affirmative Action; Homosexual Marriage, Anti-Charter Schools, Racial politics, etc.
So what else is new?
ByteMe
August 19th, 2012
4:10 pm
Jay has argued against Charter Schools in the past and now is changing his tune.
Only one changing his tune here is you and your strawman arguments. Do document where Jay has argued against locally created charter schools? Put up or admit you were wrong.
TM
August 19th, 2012
4:12 pm
“Most of Jay’s articles contain his nonsensical rubbish; Illegal Immigration, Affirmative Action; Homosexual Marriage, Anti-Charter Schools, Racial politics, etc.
So what else is new?”
I now see why USMC wants Charter schools—He needs to learn basic reading and comprehension.
ByteMe
August 19th, 2012
4:13 pm
I now see why USMC wants Charter schools—He needs to learn basic reading and comprehension
Seems the only one here USMC is looking to impress is himself.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
4:13 pm
My 6-year-old is in a school program that will have her creating a PowerPoint presentation before the end of the school year.
ByteMe
That’s just one of numerous examples of why I don’t think you can compare educational differences of the generations. As time progresses, technology is advancing much faster than it can be learned by many of us. Two generations ago, algebra would have been an advanced math class for high schoolers. Nowadays, algebra is considered advanced math for 7th or 8th graders. A high school senior in 1982 would not have had a clue about power point and such, but now a 6 year old is learning how to use it.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
4:14 pm
So. What happens to the students when the Charter school they attended for several years is found not up to par?
If they are in high school they will probably drop out (how many want to be in high school till they’re 20).
From what I have been reading it will several years into the trial before the school can be judged adequate or not.
Why don’t Regressives care about the kids?
It cuts both ways guys.
Jay
August 19th, 2012
4:15 pm
“Jay has argued against Charter Schools in the past and now is changing his tune.”
USMC is either very ill-informed or lying. I have always supported charter schools as an option that the local school board ought to have at its disposal.
As I wrote on this topic back in February:
“Furthermore, no such change is needed to create a healthy, thriving charter school movement in Georgia, because such a movement already exists. The state Department of Education lists more than 135 charter schools, most of them approved by local school boards, and the list continues to grow. That’s great; charter schools are a necessary, useful and valued option.
However, the language in the amendment goes far beyond charter-school funding. If enacted, it would put great new power in the hands of legislators eager to dismantle the state’s public education system.”
ByteMe
August 19th, 2012
4:15 pm
Nowadays, algebra is considered advanced math for 7th or 8th graders
My generation, algebra was 8th grade. I did it in 7th and was considered “advanced”.
I told my daughter about her making PowerPoint presentations and told her that if she needed help, she could ask her brother to show her how to make the text fly in and out of the page. He’s five.
Hourglass
August 19th, 2012
4:16 pm
Thanks for keeping us informed on this one Mr. Bookman! I will be voting NO to this amendment in November.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
4:18 pm
ByteMe
When she’s done, ask her how much she’ll charge to tutor me.
Brad Steel
August 19th, 2012
4:19 pm
“This is a true Democrat. Make some kind of sarcastic comment and provide zero information. What a joke.”
More irony? Or is your whole men a gag, WS Mike?
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
4:19 pm
This whole argument is very simple. The Fright-Wing, who want to send their children to private Christian schools, want a “credit” (or reduction) in their county property taxes for the tuition to those Christian schools.
If they receive a credit, then that means that the rest of us have to pay more to fund the existing schools that we already have. That’s because most of those costs are “fixed” and will not be reduced by your sending your children to Christian schools.
My argument, once again, is that if you want to send your children to private Christian schools, that’s your business. Don’t expect a reduction in your local property taxes. And, don’t expect the rest of us to fund it. OK?
ByteMe
August 19th, 2012
4:19 pm
What happens to the students when the Charter school they attended for several years is found not up to par?
See Clayton County. Got their accreditation pulled and it created all kinds of problems for seniors.
Brad Steel
August 19th, 2012
4:20 pm
“USMC is either very ill-informed or lying. ” You’re too generous, Bookman.
JamVet
August 19th, 2012
4:20 pm
USMC once again demonstrates that he never gets tired of putting his feet in his mouth. And then putting a smiley face icon after it.
Between that and generally not knowing what the hell he is talking about, the guy is a laugh riot…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIBo1k916y0
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
4:22 pm
This is one program my old high school is now offering.
http://mhs.marietta-city.org/modules/cms/pages.phtml?sessionid=&pageid=114527
getalife
August 19th, 2012
4:23 pm
“USMC is either very ill-informed or lying.”
Both.
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
4:24 pm
“Yeah, I am sure Soothsayer really “chips in” a ton of money for education.”
Yeah, well, I currently chip in about $1,500.00 a year just in the education portion of county property taxes.
I have not a doubt that the county will raise millage rates to compensate for the lower tax collections if this Constitutional amendment were to pass.
And, again, there’s that central issue: The rest of will have to foot the bill for your kids to go to private Christian schools in higher taxes.
USMC
August 19th, 2012
4:26 pm
“USMC is either very ill-informed or lying. I have always supported charter schools as an option that the local school board ought to have at its disposal.”–Jay
I am not lying, but I am almost certain you have written AGAINST Charter Schools because you said they take away(money, pupils etc.) from Public Schools.
If you have not, I apologize and take back that part of what I said.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
4:26 pm
ByteMe -
Powerpoint is for presentation to management wienies.
When she gets really good have her start on Visio so she can do Systems Design
Halftrack
August 19th, 2012
4:28 pm
Competition makes all schools better. Recently the Regents were looking at new ways to deal with remedial courses for incoming high school graduates entering college. Georgia is low on the totem pole in SAT scores nationally as well as high school dropouts. Something ain’t working and options are needed. Get-er-done.
USMC
August 19th, 2012
4:28 pm
Poor Getalife…. angry and envious and still needs a life….
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
4:32 pm
“The rest of will have to foot the bill for your kids to go to private Christian schools in higher taxes.”
Hey! ‘At kinda sounds like ‘at there SOCIALISM you Fright-Wingers is always talking ’bout don’t it?
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
4:35 pm
Halftrack – I agree something needs to be done.
But defunding the public schools seems to be the opposite of what needs to be done.
Don’t just throw money at the problem sit down and see what programs have WORKED nationally and see if they possibly work for Ga.
getalife
August 19th, 2012
4:36 pm
USMC,
Just call em like I see em.
You are proof the gop attack on education is working.
CherokeeRepublican
August 19th, 2012
4:40 pm
I disagree with Jay 95% of the time, but on this issue he is spot on. State schools superintendent John Barge, a fellow republican, made the argument far more eloquently than I could.
I was educated in public schools, including a large public university, and have done well for myself, my family, and my community. I do not mind paying for public schools, it is a great investment. However I deeply resent the idea of paying for private for-profit schools out of taxpayer money. If y’all want to send you kids to private schools that is great, but you need to pay for it yourselves.
Not only did the citizens of Cherokee defeat a well-funded, well-connected, and sometimes vicious campaign to kick out the aforementioned not-crazy school board member who was elevated to chairman, but we also elected an underfunded, not well-known or well-connected candidate whose most significant qualification is that she did not mouth support for charter schools and her opponent did.
You can not fool all the people all the time!
ByteMe
August 19th, 2012
4:44 pm
When she gets really good have her start on Visio so she can do Systems Design
It didn’t even occur to me that I might have to load Microsoft Office on my kids’ PC….
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
4:44 pm
CherokeeRepublican
Good for you. We disagree constantly here on some things, but I can’t think of one thing more important than the kids and their future.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
4:45 pm
ByteMe -
Don’t let her use spellcheck. Then she could never blog here
ByteMe
August 19th, 2012
4:47 pm
Don’t let her use spellcheck.
Yeah, I gotta think that one through. Same with auto-correct.
TaxPayer
August 19th, 2012
4:49 pm
Uneducated masses are easily fooled.
Georgia is the ideal Republican state.
Vote yes if you want your duly elected state leaders to have the freedom to cut your taxes and implement Charter schools on behalf of you, the unserved and neglected citizens of your community. Amen.
Hourglass
August 19th, 2012
4:55 pm
Wake up Georgia and educate our children…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TDfPgd3Kyc&feature=related
getalife
August 19th, 2012
4:56 pm
The majority of the American people do not know who ryan is so………
pogo
August 19th, 2012
4:59 pm
Billions upon billions of taxpayer dollars have been spent on public education and what do we have to show for it? Students whom are less and less prepared to to compete in the world marketplace and teachers who are who could give a damn less whether they teach their students anything or not, just as long as their paychecks and cushy benefits keep coming. I am a product of the public school system of yesteryear. At one time it actually had excellent dedicated teachers and administrators who were more motivated more by their sense of accomplishment in furthering the education of our children than what their paychecks were going to be. That doesn’t exist anymore. Public education has become an industry infested by lazy, no-caring beareucrats who use our bloated government beareucracy to cover for their laziness.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
5:02 pm
Same with auto-correct.
Never one to miss an opportunity to plug one of my vices…
http://tinyurl.com/29tt8vy
Mr_B
August 19th, 2012
5:04 pm
“Get better parents.” That’s what publicly funded not-for-profit education is for: to create a next generation of better parents.
But it takes time to solve generational problems.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
5:05 pm
Public education has become an industry infested by lazy, no-caring beareucrats who use our bloated government beareucracy to cover for their laziness.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step. The second step is to quit re-electing the same jackasses that screw things up.
Mr_B
August 19th, 2012
5:06 pm
Pogo:
“teachers who are who could give a damn less whether they teach their students anything or not, just as long as their paychecks and cushy benefits keep coming.”
You want to swap places?
Didn’t think so.
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
5:09 pm
“Uneducated masses are easily fooled.”
Yesterday, I couldn’t even spell educated. Today, I IS educated!
Joe T
August 19th, 2012
5:09 pm
This charter school nonsense is nothing more than another attempt to use public money to fund what will eventually become private schools. As said earlier, the angry old white men under the dome, their children don’t go to public school, so this is really about funneling our money to their family/friends in the private school business. 100% of public education monies collected should go to only public schools, not 51% or whatever Jay cited in the article. There is an answer, but giving the money to private companies is totally NOT the answer. This state is up for sale to the highest bidder. Always has been, always will be; that’s 1 reason why the schools system is ranked 48th or 49th in the country.
bman
August 19th, 2012
5:11 pm
I cater food to teachers at several public schools at least once a week. The ones I talk to seem to really enjoy their jobs teaching kids. And…they aren’t lazy.
They are really “into it” !
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
5:15 pm
getalife
United Schools for Mentally
Challenged dropout.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
5:16 pm
bman
You’re spoiling the fun. Ain’t no fun if you can’t demonize everyone else except for yourself. Teachers get extra demonization. They’re public sector workers. Then there’s that evil union thing.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
5:19 pm
Teachers sure as shyte don’t do it for the money
JamVet
August 19th, 2012
5:21 pm
Billions upon billions of taxpayer dollars have been spent on public education and what do we have to show for it?
I would say millions and millions of successful, contributing citizens.
Including yours truly…
Here is an interesting study on the types of music and artists that smart/dumb people listen to…
http://musicthatmakesyoudumb.virgil.gr/
Simplythetruth
August 19th, 2012
5:24 pm
CherokeeRepublican, thank you for your well stated comments. Cherokee was infected with an out of state virus introduced by none other than one Chip Rogers. Guess he couldn’t afford private schools, so, he “invented” another method of payment.
CherokeeRepublican
August 19th, 2012
5:26 pm
Joe T – what you missed is there is no “eventually” about it. The school in Cherokee, that the local board rejected, is a privately owned and operated, for profit, out-of-state owned, entity. Other than that minor clarification, and the gratuitous slam on old white men, I agree with your points.
Every voter, Democrat/Republican, white/black/other, old/young, man or woman need to recognize this scam for what it is and vote down the silly constitutional amendment.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
5:27 pm
Billions upon billions of taxpayer dollars have been spent on public education and what do we have to show for it?
Mars Rover B**ches!!!!!
Just couldn’t resist that one…
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
5:28 pm
“getalife
United Schools for Mentally
Challenged dropout.”
Personal attack = admission of defeat
Goodbye!
Mr_B
August 19th, 2012
5:29 pm
“Then there’s that evil union thing.”
You got an address or website on that ,Bro? I’d sure love to join.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
5:30 pm
This whole thing reminds me of the white flight schools established in the 60’s to avoid the issue of integration. How many are still around?
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
5:30 pm
“Billions upon billions of taxpayer dollars have been spent on public education and what do we have to show for it?”
Well, we have the Moon base. Oh, wait!
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
5:31 pm
Soothsayer
“Goodbye”
…
I hope so.
Janney
August 19th, 2012
5:31 pm
Sure appreciate your 5:11 post, bman. I don’t know any teacher that is lazy, works as little as possible, and does not care about the kids. For the most part, we are a very dedicated, concerned group who put the education of students above our own self-interest. If more people understood how much personal time we devote to helping students, we would get more respect.
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
5:33 pm
frog: you’re lucky that Jay is not as rigorous in enforcing his policies as is Wingnut.
American Education 2012: Obama Vs Romney « moderndaychris
August 19th, 2012
5:34 pm
[...] Charter-school issue a drain on public education (blogs.ajc.com) [...]
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
5:35 pm
Soothsayer
explain who I personally
attacked.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
5:37 pm
Janney
The problem is the lack of respect from the parents (for teachers) translates to the fact that their kids don’t respect the teachers.
Teachers spend a lot of their own money trying to keep materials in the classroom.
How many schools no longer have enough textbooks to send home with the students. That was totally unheard of when I was in school. Thw school budgets need to be increased not decreased (but more targeted).
IMO
bman
August 19th, 2012
5:38 pm
Bro … Aww now- my attitude towards most of the other public working crowd isnt so good.
I realize that my comment was based on only 7 or 8 schools, but….these teachers are passionate & engaged. They work late, and they work from home. The DMV, water dept etc…if the hours are to close at 5:00, the parking lot is empty by 5:05
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
5:39 pm
“getalife
United Schools for Mentally
Challenged dropout.”
Did I misread this? Or are you suggesting that getalife is a dropout from United Schools for [the] Mentally Challenged?
Maybe I’m missing something. If so, I apologize in advance.
Jay
August 19th, 2012
5:40 pm
This whole thing reminds me of the white flight schools established in the 60’s to avoid the issue of integration. How many are still around?
A lot.
And not as many as there will be if this passes.
Mr_B
August 19th, 2012
5:41 pm
bman @ 5:11. Let me second Janney’s thanks. Like every profession, teaching has a few people who don’t really belong in it, but by-and-large the folks I work with do it because they really care about the kids they teach. If they’re doing it for the money, they’re even dumber than most of our critics here (I’m lookin’ at YOU, Pogo) give us credit for.
Janney
August 19th, 2012
5:43 pm
Common Sense @ 5:37, agreed.
G Mare
August 19th, 2012
5:43 pm
My three (now adult) children went all through public school. I can only think of one teacher who was less than caring, concerned, and hardworking. I also have several teachers in my extended family – all concerned, caring, and hardworking. So quit dumping on the teachers; admit that many of you here would not even last a week in a classroom.
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
5:43 pm
soothsayer
apology accepted.
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
5:44 pm
See, the Fright-Wing thought they could escape by moving to the norther exurbs. Unfortunately, that’s not filling the bill.
You see, those “low-wage” workers’ children that Daddy uses in his business want to go to school with their children.
So, the only way to avoid that is with their “own” schools. But, and here is the rub, they want “you and me” to pay for them. And, that’s where I draw the line.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 19th, 2012
5:44 pm
Sooth
I think frog was having some fun at the expense of tho one posting as USMC
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 19th, 2012
5:45 pm
“the”, not “tho”.
Janney
August 19th, 2012
5:46 pm
G Mare: So quit dumping on the teachers; admit that many of you here would not even last a week in a classroom.
Thanks, and “Amen”!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
5:46 pm
Some points:
1) The language in our State Constitution is “adequate” ……… whatever that means.
2) As to new authority on charter schools the voters will decide ………. it’s called democracy.
3) How about money that is being wasted to absurdity with certain high school sports.
4) In my opinion, students of my generation got a better education than those of today and with a LOT less money as a percentage (and …………. without even air conditioning so the school year was shorter).
5) Throwing more money at education is not always the best answer.
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
5:46 pm
frog: not so fast. Are you telling that post was not an insult to getalife? If not, please explain it to me.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
5:47 pm
G Mare
I fully admit that I would last no more than 5 minutes in a classroom.
I have a low tolerance for self abuse
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
5:47 pm
Joe T:
“As said earlier, the angry old white men under the dome, their children don’t go to public school, so this is really about funneling our money to their family/friends in the private school business.”
And neither do President Obama’s children.
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
5:48 pm
Kamchak
not the poster the entire
United States Marine Corps.
ByteMe
August 19th, 2012
5:48 pm
Are you telling that post was not an insult to getalife? If not, please explain it to me
Look at the initials used.
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
5:49 pm
Alright frog, whatever.
ByteMe
August 19th, 2012
5:50 pm
And neither do President Obama’s children.
Yawn. The Secret Service cannot protect them in a public school without disrupting the school. They’ve said that, not me and not some worthless pundit you read. The school they go to is one where diplomats’ children go… so it’s equipped to handle the extra security already.
But, hey, throw more junk at the wall and see what sticks. That’s how you play this game.
bman
August 19th, 2012
5:51 pm
Janney. Mr_B
You’re welcome. I have a family member who recently relocated back to the metro area and is a teacher. She doesn’t have to teach, or even work at all. Her husband makes more than- well…most. She didn’t teach at all last year because there were no teaching positions available.
She was lucky and landed a job at a loc high school. I cannot even begin to describe her enthusiasm, how upbeat & happy she has been the last week.
She loves it & it is all she wants to do…
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
5:51 pm
Soothsayer
want detailed explanations
of my posts in the future?
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
5:51 pm
OK, OK. Now I get it! Sorry. I get a little perturbed when someone attacks “one of our own.” If you know what I mean.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
5:52 pm
Wow -
Could it be that the President’s children don’t go to public school.
Say it ain’t so
Janney
August 19th, 2012
5:54 pm
bman –
JamVet
August 19th, 2012
5:54 pm
In my opinion, students of my generation got a better education than those of today and with a LOT less money as a percentage…
I think you mean the white kids.
Because back then the black and other minority kids REALLY got shafted. MUCH worse than they do now.
And depending on your view on that, you can either thank or denigrate a liberal/progressive for that…
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
5:55 pm
Soothsayer
didn’t know there was an
“our” own here. does that
mean I’m an outsider and
will be disciplined by you
for transgressions ?
Mary Elizabeth
August 19th, 2012
5:56 pm
I wish to wax a little more philosophically as to why I am an ardent supporter of public education and why I abhor the thought of using school children for profit. The below ercerpt is part of my response to another poster’s remarks to me yesterday on Maureen Downey’s blog:
===================================
“If the local community had garbage pick-up and you were forced to pay $40 per month, but you knew that a for-profit company would offer you better service and only charge $20 per month. . .
—————————————————————-
First of all, education is not a public service like ‘garbage pick-up,’ it is a field of public service that fosters the elevation of human beings – intellectually, emotionally, spiritually, and physically. Educators are not simply teaching facts such as that 3 x 3 = 9; they are inspiring our young to be the best that they can be in all of the areas mentioned. Do you want our young people to think that they are being used for profit, or that they are valued simply because they are human beings, equal to one another, to be cared for and nurtured to their full potential through public servants who desire only that their students reach their full potential? Is it not better to signal to students that service to one’s fellow human beings – without a profit incentive in doing so – is more to be valued in our society than value placed upon monetary gain, primarily?
That is one of the main reason I support public (not for-profit) education over education that makes a profit on its students. It is what we are teaching our young that is of value for them to emulate as we model for them, in the process of how we educate them, that matters to our nation’s future character and destiny. I have posed on this blog, previously, whether Americans will desire to perpetuate the ‘muscular’ values of ‘winning, hierarchial dominance, competition, and power’ over the more elevated values of ’service, collaboration, intellectual and spiritual enlightenment, and egalitarianism’ into America’s future. The first set of values create situations in which educational institutions (and other institutions) within our society believe that they must cheat in order to sustain their dominant power, and the latter values do not create that kind of America. They foster service to one’s country and to others as well as foster egalitarianism, the principle upon which this nation was built.”
———————————————————————
And, more pragmatically, schools implemented for profit purposes may not fare as well in student achievement as traditional public schools.
Here is an excerpt from Professor Hassard’s article which I had linked earlier this afternoon:
“The results raise serious question about the efficacy of charters, and reaffirm the central importance of a strong public school system. The results also are in agreement with the findings of Michael Marder’s study: Failure of U.S. Secondary Schools in Mathematics: Poverty is more important than Teacher quality.
Here are some of their findings from the CREDO study:
•Of the 2403 charter schools reflected on the curve, 46 percent of charter schools have math gains that are statistically indistinguishable from the average growth among their TPS comparisons.
•Charters whose math growth exceeded their TPS equivalent growth by a significant amount account for 17 percent of the total.
•The remaining group, 37 percent of charter schools, posted math gains that were significantly below what their students would have seen if they enrolled in local traditional public schools.”
http://www.artofteachingscience.org/2012/08/18/give-charters-we/
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
5:58 pm
does that
mean I’m an outsider and
will be disciplined by you
for transgressions ?”
That all depends on whether you prefer whips or chains.
Hey! I said I was sorry! I didn’t understand.
josef
August 19th, 2012
5:58 pm
Okay, of course I have something to say here. First off this whole thing is just one more bit of hooey. Even if we go the charter route, we’ll have some that perform excellently and some which will be a horror story. It will depend on the home-schoolhouse-community relationship just like it does now. It’s not a salvation and its not a disaster. Bottom line, put the fear of the pocketbook into that pack of snake oil salesmen and public coffer slop trough swillers now in charge of the system and we may see some changes.
Secondly, that thingie about white flight. Yeah, except this time around there’s plenty of melanin enhanced in the crowd who don’t want their little darlings going to school with “those people” either. Progress, ain’t it grand?
getalife
August 19th, 2012
5:59 pm
All children left behind.
Our country is falling behind on several issues.
Divided we fail.
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
6:03 pm
soothsayer
“That all depends on whether
you prefer whips or chains.”
……
is this some kind of personal
deviant attack on my sexuality?
josef
August 19th, 2012
6:05 pm
getalife
What was it my woman Ann Richards called it? No Child’s Behind Left…
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
6:06 pm
josef
yep, except you are one of those evil union members LOL
getalife
August 19th, 2012
6:07 pm
josef,
She was not a fan of w:
“Poor George [Bush], he can’t help it. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth.”
josef
August 19th, 2012
6:07 pm
Common Sense…
Not to mention a Mormon…!
josef
August 19th, 2012
6:08 pm
getalife
i sure miss her and Molly Ivans…two great Texans, they!
getalife
August 19th, 2012
6:09 pm
I have respect for teachers putting up with problem children like me.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
6:09 pm
josef
with your connections you might get your Phd from BYU
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
6:10 pm
getalife
I was a perfect child.
A perfect WHAT I ain’t telling
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
6:12 pm
The education of children
should be of paramount
importance. The type of
schools should not necessarily be an issue and
the cost of educating a
child outside the public
schools should be borne
by all just as the cost inside
the public schools.
josef
August 19th, 2012
6:15 pm
getalife
You may not have known this then, but for some of us, y’all “problem kids” were (are) our pride and joy.
Common
First step toward reform, imauo, close every Department of Education in every “institute of higher learning” and go back to the Normal School…
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
6:17 pm
barking frog -
The type of schools should not necessarily be an issue and the cost of educating a child outside the public schools should be borne by all just as the cost inside the public schools.
————————————————-
I disagree since the public has no control over the salaries of the administrators or their cost of advertising or their curriculum.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
6:19 pm
josef
I was taught by the penguins so I can’t make that call
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
6:19 pm
ByteMe:
“The Secret Service cannot protect them in a public school without disrupting the school. They’ve said that, not me and not some worthless pundit you read.The school they go to is one where diplomats’ children go… so it’s equipped to handle the extra security already.”
And you couldn’t be more wrong. The Secret Service is very adept at providing that type of security with minimal disruption. In fact, a public school would probably welcome the added protection for their “common” students.
And where to do you think all of the other children of prominent figures who live in D.C. go to school even though they are not authorized personal security from the Secret Service?
Get your head out of the sand. Parents want what’s best for their children that they can afford and I don’t disagree with that.
Soothsayer
August 19th, 2012
6:20 pm
josef: what does imauo stand for? I have searched online and cannot find it.
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
6:20 pm
Common Sense will tell you
that requirements can be
tied to funds just as the
federal government does
and the state does to local
schools.
josef
August 19th, 2012
6:20 pm
COMMON
“I disagree since the public has no control over the salaries of the administrators or their cost of advertising or their curriculum.”
And the public does now? Yeah, sure.
tireofit
August 19th, 2012
6:21 pm
That’s the republicans plan
josef
August 19th, 2012
6:23 pm
SOOTH
IMAUO? In my ancestrally uppity opinion…Brosephus laid the ancestrally uppity one on me and, Plantation Liberal that I am, it fit like a glove!
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
6:24 pm
josef
So as an administrator now you are overpaid
What I meant was the for-profit schools have been rated very low in the percentage of funds used on education vs the other costs.
This just seems like another get rich scheme for the friends of the politicians.
CherokeeRepublican
August 19th, 2012
6:25 pm
Like pogo, my public education experience is several decades in the past, however unlike pogo and others I well remember even “way back then” there were a small handful of teachers and administrators who were lazy and/or incompetent and were gaming the system. I survived and thrived and many others did too. “Back then” the overwhelming majority of staff were hard-working and motivated more through altruism than money, and I believe that is still the case today.
But this hollow debate distracts from the main point. With publicly financed and locally controlled schools the voters have a choice – a choice well demonstrated by Cherokee voters in the most recent election. If we instead allow “the State of Georgia” to determine who gets a charter and public funding, the decisions will be made by some board of state employees who are not directly accountable to the voters. That amounts to “taxation without representation” and that is just wrong!
josef
August 19th, 2012
6:29 pm
A-ga-te-no
@ 6:19
“In fact, a public school would probably welcome the added protection for their “common” students.”
Amen! Word.
josef
August 19th, 2012
6:31 pm
COMMON
I’m not classified as “administrative.” When folks ask me why I didn’t go there, I tell them that I believe in a G-d of Wrath and a Day of Judgment and I don’t want THAT on my record. They laugh. But I’m serious.
CherokeeRepublican
August 19th, 2012
6:36 pm
barking frog – if next week you decide that the type of car you drive is paramount will you then use that as an excuse to steal from me to fund a new BMW?
Seriously, the “cost of educating a child outside the public schools” is the responsibility of the parents that make the choice to educate their children that way. As a taxpayer it is my responsibility to contribute to the public school system, not to pad the pockets of any lunatic that decides to start their own “private school”.
josef
August 19th, 2012
6:41 pm
Cut a fr*kkin check to each child’s parents in the amount the state allocate and let them deal with it as they see fit. Put it square on the shoulders of those who spawned them to begin with…yeah, that’s probably not the best idea all things considered, but it would sure put an end to this type of squabbling.
CherokeeRepublican
August 19th, 2012
6:53 pm
josef – “No way!” to “Cut a … check to each child’s parents” – it is still money paid by the taxpayers, and still demands public accountability. That plan would still funnel taxpayer money to lunatics and con artists with no accountability.
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
6:53 pm
Cherokee Republican
Children are not cars.
No one is proposing
theft.
josef
August 19th, 2012
6:55 pm
Cherokee
Of course I was being facetious, but when you say:
“That plan would still funnel taxpayer money to lunatics and con artists with no accountability.
Ain’t that what’s going on now?
G Mare
August 19th, 2012
6:57 pm
Okay, for what it is worth, it is my OPINION, that if parents want to educate their children in other than public schools, the PARENTS should pay for that, not my or anyone’s tax dollars. My parents elected to send me & my siblings to Parocial schools. They also paid the taxes required for public education. I am sure it never occurred to them to expect help from the government for our tuition. Yes, this was many years ago; I am having great difficulty understanding what, why, and when this changed.
Mr_B
August 19th, 2012
6:59 pm
Been fun, guys, but I got lesson plans to do. Vote NO on the Charter Amendment.!
josef
August 19th, 2012
7:06 pm
I went to public schools, Catholic schools, prep school, and the hedge school. I got my education in the latter. I got my socialization in the former. I benefited from all four. With the exception of the latter, the curriculum and its delivery were indistinguishable.
CherokeeRepublican
August 19th, 2012
7:07 pm
josef – to some degree you are right, but at least with local control we have the option of changing the school board and indirectly the superintendent and the rest of the administration. If you cede control to a board of state employees and private companies, the taxpayer has no recourse whatsoever to stop any shenanigans.
catlady
August 19th, 2012
7:09 pm
In my county the three BOE members up for re-election were soundly defeated (82-18%, for example). This is pretty historic. They had, over the last year and a half, vastly ticked off nearly everyone in the county with their decisions. I am hoping that the two remaining members are listening very carefully now. I sincerely believe if they had been up for vote, they would have been turned out, also. Where I live, an incumbent virtually NEVER loses. Perhaps the board will now be more representative of the voters.
CherokeeRepublican
August 19th, 2012
7:09 pm
barking frog – when you demand the taxpayers hand over money with no accountability for it whatsoever, that is theft. Doesn’t matter if it is your kid, or your car.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
7:10 pm
G Mare
were you a product of Catholic schools also LOL.
If you lived in Marietta back during the 60’s we may have gone to the same one
ragnar danneskjold
August 19th, 2012
7:14 pm
If “public education” was the same as “good education,” the argument would have merit. And if wishes were horses, leftists would ride. As is, “public education” is a drain on the resources needed to provide “good education,” a product that arises only from parent direction of the process. Parent direction is notably absent from the educrat-driven system currently fleecing the Georgia taxpayer.
josef
August 19th, 2012
7:15 pm
CHEROKEE
I much agree with you on local control, and I would go one step further and say that the “final word” be in the hands of the local site administrator. If you don’t trust him/her to make the right decisions pertinent to the needs of the client base served, what did you hire him/her for in the first place? There are way too many layers of bureaucracy with the Peter principle at work and people making decisions on what’s best who haven’t been inside a classroom in the last two decades. There’s too much “mandate” and not enough student-focused teaching. We’ve adopted an assembly line process and it flat, f”ing don’t work.
ragnar danneskjold
August 19th, 2012
7:16 pm
Grammar correction: “use” requires “were.” I knew that, although I am a product of the public schools.
josef
August 19th, 2012
7:20 pm
RAGS
“Parent direction is notably absent from the educrat-driven system currently fleecing the Georgia taxpayer.”
While you and I are usually polar opposites and my hotly disagree on how we got here and what has to be done to get out of the swamp, at least at this starting point we are agreed.
Jack
August 19th, 2012
7:34 pm
Send your kids to private schools. If you can’t afford private schools, make sure your kids receive enough parental guidance that will enable them to be accepted in theme schools.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
7:37 pm
Mr_B: You got an address or website on that ,Bro? I’d sure love to join.
I wish I could get you into mine, but it wouldn’t be worth the money. My union’s about as fierce as a toothless hound dog that think he’s a pit bull.
—————————-
bman @ 5:38
Much better!!! You know we can’t be too positive about public sector workers here at Bookman’s.
On a serious note though, I have nothing but the highest respect for anybody who makes a conscious decision to become a teacher, especially in light of how they are generally treated nowadays. I tip my hat to every educator here on the blog… past, present, and future.
josef
August 19th, 2012
7:42 pm
BROSEPHUS
Take yore damn hat tip and shove it…show me the money!
Seriously, though, my ancestrally uppity Plantation Liberal thanks, Such comments do mean everything to us on the front lines.
G Mare
August 19th, 2012
7:44 pm
Yes, Common, I did go to Catholic schools – in Portland, OR. And by 1964, I had two children; as I said, it was a long time ago.
Recon 0311 2533
August 19th, 2012
7:48 pm
First step is to dump the Department of Education and next get the federal government out of it completely. Education is a state and local government issue with the state held accountable for fairness and equality. There’s indeed room for charter schools as competition drives results.
CherokeeRepublican
August 19th, 2012
7:51 pm
josef – you bring up many good points and I think there is far more that we agree on than we disagree on.
Can we agree that the proposed constitutional amendment to take decisions on charter schools away from local school boards and cede that power to “the State” is a bad idea and should be vetoed by the voters this November?
josef
August 19th, 2012
7:52 pm
D*mn…I know I’ve fallen through the looking glass. First I have to agree with Rags and now I have to agree with our in resident you know what. But point by point, I do. And I’d rather bite my tongue…but the truth is…
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
7:53 pm
G Mare
Hopefully your children have as much ‘Common Sense’ as you do
josef
August 19th, 2012
7:54 pm
CHEROKEE
Agreed. 150%.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
7:54 pm
josef
I couldn’t possibly count all the friends and family that I have in the field of education. I applied years ago, and I think it was divine intervention that I didn’t get hired. I don’t think I have the patience to survive here as a teacher. On a slightly different tangent, have you heard anything about West VA’s forray into the Finnish model?
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
7:59 pm
Cherokee Republican
Paranoia about competition
for public schools solves
nothing. I think the public
schools can compete and
succeed and smaller
classrooms can help student
and teacher. Directing your
tax dollar should not be
only for the few but for the
many.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
8:00 pm
Bro
Is this the one you are talking about
http://www.jurgita.com/models-id323777.html
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
8:00 pm
josef:
Read this last night:
17 Then I said to them, “You see the trouble we are in: Jerusalem lies in ruins, and its gates have been burned with fire. Come, let us rebuild the wall of Jerusalem, and we will no longer be in disgrace. ” 18 I also told them about the gracious hand of my God on me and what the king had said to me.
They replied, “Let us start rebuilding.” So they began this good work.
19 But when Sanballat the Horonite, Tobiah the Ammonite official and Geshem the Arab heard about it, they mocked and ridiculed us. “What is this you are doing?” they asked. “Are you rebelling against the king?”
20 I answered them by saying, “The God of heaven will give us success. We his servants will start rebuilding, but as for you, you have no share in Jerusalem or any claim or historic right to it.”
Nehemiah 2:17-20
josef
August 19th, 2012
8:01 pm
BROSEPHUS
I’m still trying to get some details on W Va and that…I guess I’m gonna have to go up there to find out. That one has really caught my attention. As far as you and being a teacher, I think you’d make a damned good one. I suggest you think about doing that once your civil service time is out. We need, desperately, more men, more Black men, and more people with experience in the real world there to be role models for our future. Patience? Believe me, if you can deal with this lot here, the little thugs in the making will be a piece of cake!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
8:01 pm
Brosephus:
Your thoughts ?
THE BIG LIE !
“On Aug. 21, 1992, a team of U.S. marshals scouting the forest to find suitable places to ambush and arrest Weaver came across his friend, Kevin Harris, and Weaver’s 14-year-old son Samuel in the woods. A gunfight broke out. Samuel Weaver and Deputy U.S. Marshal William Degan were killed.” FALSE !
http://news.yahoo.com/20-years-ruby-ridge-theres-forgiveness-200635491.html
This is how the press deceives the public and gets a way with a big lie. I had pneumonia at the time and watched every minute of the Congressional testimony in this case.
After investigation by ATF, Weaver was indicted for selling a sawed-off shotgun. Instead of showing up in court he decided to defy the system.
None of us have that right.
He “holed up” in his cabin on his property in the mountains. After several months went by, a team of U.S. Marshals were ordered to set up surveillance
to determine his “routine” in an effort to make a peaceful arrest. One morning, one of Weaver’s dogs started barking at them and they rapidly retreated as they
had also been ordered to avoid a direct confrontation. In fact, they retreated for a couple of hundred yards “OFF” of Weaver’s property. Several times the Marshals
yelled for Weaver to stop. However, Weaver, Harris and Weaver’s young son (and the dog) kept pursuing and the firefight ensued. Weaver’s son and a U.S. Marshal were killed.
I also support the FBI’s actions. Once you have indicated you will not be taken alive and will immediately shoot at law enforcement agents all bets are off in my opinion.
Weaver caused the deaths of his son and wife through his own illegal, arrogant and irresponsible actions.
Common Sense isn't very Common - Bored in Pittsburgh
August 19th, 2012
8:02 pm
barking
and I want my defense dollars to go to my private army
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
8:05 pm
HEY JAY!
Here’s a great chart for you to use tomorrow !
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/08/19/niall-ferguson-on-why-barack-obama-needs-to-go.html
josef
August 19th, 2012
8:05 pm
A-ga-te-no
@ 8:00
You running dog zionist imperialist hoodlum, you!
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
8:05 pm
Common Sense
Take out some terrorists
and you may make a case
for funding.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
8:07 pm
Common Sense:
“and I want my defense dollars to go to my private army”
Well ………….. that’s exactly what we have now !
“0.45%”
“I remember the day I found out I got into West Point . My mom actually showed up in the hallway of my high school and waited for me to get out of class. She was bawling her eyes out and apologizing that she had opened up my admission letter. She wasn’t crying because it had been her dream for me to go there. She was crying because she knew how hard I’d worked to get in, how much I wanted to attend, and how much I wanted to be an infantry officer. I was going to get that opportunity. That same day two of my teachers took me aside and essentially told me the following: “David, you’re a smart guy. You don’t have to join the military. You should go to college, instead.”
I could easily write a theme defending West Point and the military as I did that day, explaining that USMA is an elite institution, that separate from that it is actually statistically much harder to enlist in the military than it is to get admitted to college, that serving the nation is a challenge that all able-bodied men should at least consider for a host of reasons, but I won’t.
What I will say is that when a 16 year-old kid is being told that attending West Point is going to be bad for his future then there is a dangerous disconnect in America, and entirely too many Americans have no idea what kind of burdens our military is bearing.
In World War II, 11.2% of the nation served in four (4) years. During the Vietnam era, 4.3% served in twelve (12) years. Since 2001, only 0.45% of our population has served in the Global War on Terror. These are unbelievable statistics. Over time, fewer and fewer people have shouldered more and more of the burden and it is only getting worse. Our troops were sent to war in Iraq by a Congress consisting of 10% veterans with only one person having a child in the military. Taxes did not increase to pay for the war. War bonds were not sold. Gas was not regulated. In fact, the average citizen was asked to sacrifice nothing, and has sacrificed nothing unless they have chosen to out of the goodness of their hearts. The only people who have sacrificed are the veterans and their families. The volunteers. The people who swore an oath to defend this nation.
You stand there, deployment after deployment and fight on. You’ve lost relationships, spent years of your lives in extreme conditions, years apart from kids you’ll never get back, and beaten your body in a way that even professional athletes don’t understand. Then you come home to a nation that doesn’t understand. They don’t understand suffering. They don’t understand sacrifice. They don’t understand why we fight for them. They don’t understand that bad people exist. They look at you like you’re a machine – like something is wrong with you. You are the misguided one – not them.
When you get out, you sit in the college classrooms with political science teachers that discount your opinions on Iraq and Afghanistan because YOU WERE THERE and can’t understand the macro issues they gathered from books, because of your bias. You watch TV shows where every vet has PTSD and the violent strain at that. Your Congress is debating your benefits, your retirement, and your pay, while they ask you to do more. But the amazing thing about you is that you all know this. You know your country will never pay back what you’ve given up. You know that the populace at large will never truly understand or appreciate what you have done for them. Hell, you know that in some circles, you will be thought as less than normal for having worn the uniform. But you do it anyway. You do what the greatest men and women of this country have done since 1775. YOU SERVED. Just that decision alone makes you part of an elite group. “Never in the field of human conflict has so much been owed by so many to so few.” Winston Churchill
Thank you to the 11.2% and 4.3% who have served and thanks to the 0.45% who continue to serve our Nation.”
General David Petraeus West Point Class 1974
getalife
August 19th, 2012
8:08 pm
Yes, honor the teachers for all the crap they put up with.
I would like to take a moment to thank the man that saved our country.
Thank you President Obama.
Recon 0311 2533
August 19th, 2012
8:09 pm
All public schools are not created nor administered to equally and education nationally has left our children paying the price. The best solution is to get social issues be it schools, welfare or whatever down to the lowest common denominator, local government, churches and other local civic groups. The federal government should concentrate on our national security and be gone from everything else.
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
8:09 pm
Common Sense
Companies hire private
police and deduct the cost
from income taxes but the
public police are not
protesting that.
CherokeeRepublican
August 19th, 2012
8:11 pm
barking frog – you have slipped way off the track. I am not in the education business and have no paranoia whatsoever about competition with the public schools. In fact, I am a senior manager in the private sector in an extremely competitive business and I welcome and encourage competition both in my business and in education.
But when tax dollars are involved you, or I, do not have the option to “direct” the funds any which way we choose. We elect public officials to make those decisions. If your priority is to put your kids in private school, then you need to pay for that – above and beyond your taxes to support public schools that everyone else has to pay whether they have kids in school, or not.
josef
August 19th, 2012
8:13 pm
A-ge-ta-no
@ 8:07
Excellent read. And you posting from Petraeus? Now THAT’S progress!
TaxPayer
August 19th, 2012
8:13 pm
On a side note, I just found out that the Republicans have two braintrusts that they rely on for all things science related – James Inhofe and Todd Akin. Move over Inhofe. You ain’t got nuthin’ on Todd with your puny little globally warmed igloo. According to Todd, women folk can turn off their their baby making machine at will in order to pertect themselves from the rapist.
Recon 0311 2533
August 19th, 2012
8:15 pm
0311, 8541,
Bring back the draft. The volunteers should fill the ranks of infantry and special operations. The others can serve the rest in support services.
CherokeeRepublican
August 19th, 2012
8:18 pm
barking frog – I would have no problem with your private school tuition being tax deductible – in fact it may already be (please see your tax adviser). But I am certain that the “public police”, and indeed the public in general, would be very incensed if You took half the public police budget paid by taxes and handed it off to private companies to do whatever they want to do with it with no public accountability.
josef
August 19th, 2012
8:18 pm
I’m for two years of national service for everybody. It doesn’t have to be military, but service to their country.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
8:19 pm
NoCom
YESSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
————————–
josef
I’ve said that would be my next thing. If I can get to a specialized team and get a regular-type schedule, I may put my name in the hat to be a sub from time to time. Back when I applied, I got caught in a catch-22. I didn’t have certification. The professional to teaching programs wouldn’t let me enroll until I got a job offer. The schools I interviewed with wouldn’t offer a job until I got accepted into a certification program. I figured that was a sign that it wasn’t my time to go into the classroom.
————————–
Scout
I also support the FBI’s actions. Once you have indicated you will not be taken alive and will immediately shoot at law enforcement agents all bets are off in my opinion.
I couldn’t have said it better. That situation is like confronting someone with a blade. People always wonder why cops shoot assailants who are armed with a knife, but many fail to realize how dangerous a knife can be.
The most serious impression I received at the academy was during our defensive tactics class while discussing knives. The trainers showed us this photo here:
***Warning: Graphic image***
http://cuttex.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/slash-injury-on-back1.jpg
My understanding is that the officer there was armed and tried to apprehend the subject who was armed with a knife. That drove home the point that any threatening gesture made towards an armed officer has to be perceived as a serious threat.
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
8:20 pm
Cherokee Republican
Elected officials have never
had and should never have
the ability to have total
control to direct taxes where
they see fit. Citizen input is
a constant thing and more
input can be a good thing.
As always the ballot box
will be the final arbiter.
getalife
August 19th, 2012
8:21 pm
There is no trust in government so they will be no draft.
The Japanese can bribe them to go to war with China.
saywhat?
August 19th, 2012
8:22 pm
Kyle Winfield is FOR the amendment, and like George Costanza, you can pretty much rely on him being wrong every time. Just that fact tells me which way I should vote, even if I didn’t already know enough about this issue. Thank you, Kyle!
josef
August 19th, 2012
8:24 pm
BROSEPHUS
Your “Catch-22″ is precisely what’s wrong with the schools today…the piece of paper over the actual qualifications. If we don’t get back to the old school belief that teaching is a gift/calling and not a “profession” that can be “taught” in a classroom, we are doomed to a slow slide into a new Dark Ages…Gibbon, anyone?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
8:24 pm
Brosephus:
Exactly !
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
8:25 pm
Recon 0311 2533 :
Only if women are drafted also and right now the Supreme Court has said they can’t be.
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
8:25 pm
Cherokee Republican
You seem to be assuming
that there will no accountability. The funds
distribution will be law and
can require whatever
accounting necessary.
Recon 0311 2533
August 19th, 2012
8:27 pm
If you do not know enough about an issue, decide along the lines of those who will tell you what to decide. Modern day liberalism.
josef
August 19th, 2012
8:28 pm
Women should be equally obligated to the same two-year service to the country.
CherokeeRepublican
August 19th, 2012
8:29 pm
barking frog – finally we agree on something
: “Citizen input is a constant thing and more input can be a good thing. As always the ballot box will be the final arbiter.” This is the point I have been attempting to make all along.
Can we agree that the proposed constitutional amendment to take decisions on charter schools away from local school boards and cede that power to “the State” is a bad idea and should be vetoed by the voters this November?
josef
August 19th, 2012
8:29 pm
FROG
Oh, ye of too much faith!
josef
August 19th, 2012
8:31 pm
CHEROKEE
It appears that the “bad idea” is cutting across all lines…for different reasons, perhaps, but generally being conceded to be a bad idea…
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
8:31 pm
josef
I think the six year obligation
still exists but the government does not need
the people.
Mr. Snarky
August 19th, 2012
8:32 pm
“Woodstock Mike” is proof that our schools are failing. What an ignoramus.
Recon 0311 2533
August 19th, 2012
8:32 pm
Woman should be subjected to a draft as well should the draft be reinstated. Woman should be excluded from infantry or special operations combat for reasons to numerous to describe.
Goody Three Shoes
August 19th, 2012
8:32 pm
“If you do not know enough about an issue, decide along the lines of those who will tell you what to decide. ”
Like Limbaugh, Hanitty, Boortz and the like?
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
8:36 pm
Cherokee Republican
Like the state police working
alongside local police, I have
no problem with the state
directing revenue to county
schools of their choice.
josef
August 19th, 2012
8:39 pm
William Pierce
You’re as full of sh*t as a Christmas turkey and don’t have the vaguest notion of what you’re yammering about. When was the last time you set foot in an APS school?
Recon 0311 2533
August 19th, 2012
8:40 pm
I really have to laugh every time I here Limbaugh, Hannity and Boortz. I have nothing against those guys but me along with most conservatives just don’t take the time for listening to what they say.
josef
August 19th, 2012
8:42 pm
FROG
Given my profession, I’m still “eligible” to be called into service in the case of certain national emergencies…
Recon 0311 2533
August 19th, 2012
8:43 pm
Y’all have a good evening and a great week ahead. recon out.
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
8:43 pm
Recon
Rush and company are
dependent on liberals
for listeners?
G Mare
August 19th, 2012
8:45 pm
Common, re my children: they are all productive, tax paying
members of society & have provided me with seven grandchildren.
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
8:46 pm
josef
i think everyone is within
certain physical and age
limits.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
8:47 pm
“Either you side with ‘Chick-fil-A’or you don’t; but, one thing is certain. If you want to continue eating chicken you need a hen and a rooster.”
Goody Three Shoes
August 19th, 2012
8:47 pm
Some of the same conservatives who will say that they are not swayed by the media are also some of the same people who will tell you about the rating of Fox and how right wing radio crushes left wing radio.
And that is funny.
josef
August 19th, 2012
8:47 pm
FROG
The age limit for most is 45, for linguists (among others) it goes up to 65.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
8:47 pm
josef:
Did you see my 8:00pm ?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
8:49 pm
Sorry guys but the Supreme Court has ruled that women don’t even have to “register” for selective service let alone be drafted.
They ruled on that not long after they ruled that the “state” could control a man’s body for two years (and send him to be killed) but couldn’t control a women’s body for nine months (to save a baby from being killed).
Just sayin’.
josef
August 19th, 2012
8:49 pm
A-ga-te-no
A cartoon on my wall. There’s a chicken and an egg in bed. The chicken (a rooster) is smoking a cigarette with a satisfied look. The egg has a scowl and says, “well, I guess that answers that question.”
josef
August 19th, 2012
8:50 pm
A-ga-te-no
Yes, I answered.
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
8:53 pm
0311
I knew it was “able bodied
male citizens” but i thought
it was changed but that
would require a constitutional amendment
I guess.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
8:55 pm
barking frog:
Either a new ruling or an Amendment I guess.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
8:56 pm
josef:
“A-ga-te-no
Yes,I answered.”
It would be easier if you would reply to 0311.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
8:57 pm
Brosephus:
Are you familiar with the 1986 FBI shootout in Miami?
Mama Says
August 19th, 2012
9:00 pm
Some pretty narrow minded arguments here by some of you libs.
The bottom line is that school is for education. Until Georgia can finish in the top half of the states in educating it’s children parents will seek to move them into a system that does educate. Charter, private, Christian whatever.
Seems that libs could look at this issue and at least admit that education in this state is very poor quality. It is not republicans who insist on pouring more and more money into a failing system.
Why does my child have to suffer when everyone knows our educational system has consistently failed ?
My child attended a failing school for 2 years. When we were notified ( yeah, notified) that he could go to better schools within the system they were on the other side of the county. Transportation is not provided to the other schools and we have one car. The net effect was that we were told the school was not sufficient but then basically told it was our problem. The solution ? Took him out and put him in a cheap private school. Same standards dramatic improvement in grades.
This is a no brainier people. Make educational standards high and there is no need for charter schools. Make me pay taxes to watch my chil fail simply is not an acceptable option.
Johnny B Good
August 19th, 2012
9:02 pm
Go read http://bettergaschools.org and listen to actual parents!
As everyone SHOULD know by now, no LOCAL tax money flows to state special charter schools. The additional dollars in the HB 797 funding formula are intended to partially offset the loss of local dollars when a charter application is denied by a school board. The funding formula results in an average $6,900/student amount for state special charters, while the state-local average for traditional schools is $9,700. Because you appear to have some difficulty with you math, that is a $2,800 difference between average local funding and the set funding for a state authorized charter school.
If the charter is successful, that is a savings to the state. If the charter is not successful, the charter is closed. (accountability is the part you and your status quo friends hate to talk about)
Now let’s look at APS as an example. You remember APS, the nation’s largest cheating scandal? A state charter school would receive about $6,400 for a regular education high school student. At Atlanta Public Schools, the system would spend $15,000 on that same exact student.
But I now what you will want to point out, if the people of Atlanta are so dissatisfied with their local board, then they need to vote them out of office. And in the meantime, you will continue to shackle the next generation of children of failing schools and districts to their economic disenfranchisement.
VOTE YES on November 6th. It is a vote for children and families or all color and economic backgrounds!
josef
August 19th, 2012
9:04 pm
A-ga-te-no
“It would be easier if you would reply to 0311.”
I can’t. See, every time I get sent to the lower 40 by Big Daddy for having the chutzpah to respond in kind to certain posters and told not to call them names, they have to get a Tsa-la-gi name (i.e. the Du-k-sha-nee). The other night you (and a couple of others) were called by the name you use and I was sent into lower 40 moderation. I figured your name for yourself was not acceptable, so you got this one…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
9:07 pm
josef:
Well then stand up and be a “man” for once.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
9:09 pm
Headline: “Georgia’s high school graduation rate takes a big dip”
http://www.wsbradio.com/news/news/georgias-high-school-graduation-rate-takes-big-dip/nRFZj/
JamVet
August 19th, 2012
9:10 pm
Willie Pierce, I get it.
You don’t wanna pay anything to live in this country. It is a common refrain amongs your faux conservative cousins.
One little problem you are not filthy rich.
Just another low-life bigot…
You libs
August 19th, 2012
9:12 pm
The thing is mama, there are a heck of a lot of well-educated, logical, reasonable people who don’t think that you can have a baby without getting pregnant, who think that there are no chosen people, and who think that society ought to be all-inclusive. They also think that the scientific method is one of the most dependable approaches to what is the truth and trust scientists over petroleum spokespersons every day of the week.
The people who won’t accept those realities are the ones who want to run off and have their own educational system and abandon their social obligation to participate in the education of All members of society in a way that is consistent with demonstrable truth.
josef
August 19th, 2012
9:12 pm
A-ga-te-no
I am. It’s a lot more fun this way! And what the hell do you mean, for once. I stand up to you all the time, don’t I? As for Big Daddy…the lower 40 is sufficient, no need to go for exile from the Liberal Plantation…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
9:14 pm
Paradoxical Quote From Ben Stein:
“Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured… but not everyone must prove they are a citizen.”
Now add this:
“Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens.”
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
9:16 pm
josef:
Well, if you can’t be man enough to use my chosen handle then I dub you: “josephine” !
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
9:17 pm
Are you familiar with the 1986 FBI shootout in Miami?
Vaguely. Isn’t that one of the incidents that led them away from carrying revolvers and going to semi-automatics?
josef
August 19th, 2012
9:18 pm
A-ga-te-no
Well, do you know what the name means in Tsa-la-gi? Don’t get your skivvies in a wad just yet!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
9:18 pm
“The main problem liberals have is that they could not exist without conservatives to defend their freedom and support them economically.”
Mama Says
August 19th, 2012
9:19 pm
Societal obligation ?
Come on. How can you use that argument ?
Every school is and has been supported by the taxpayer.
Your obligation theron has big holes in it.
Tell me if I have to send my child to a failing school where is your obligation to prevent my child from failing ?
You are basically arguing that no matter what- I must grin and bear it. You are saying that my obligation to others should be more than to my own child.
Where are the obligations of the non tax paying citizens of my county ? Those who live in rental houses or apartments ? When does their obligation to society demand that they recognize they are only contributing to the over crowding but contributing no money ?
Tell me when is ok by society standards to prevent my child from failing ?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 19th, 2012
9:19 pm
“Call me Ishmael.”
– Thomas Jefferson
G Mare
August 19th, 2012
9:21 pm
Go get him, Josef!
josef
August 19th, 2012
9:21 pm
A-ga-te-no
Just call me A-se-gi a-ha-la-da!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
9:24 pm
Brosephus:
Probably. Anyway, I had the privilege of meeting three of the indidviduals involved on two different occasions at a seminar. In brief, their biggest regret is that knowing what these perps. had done already, and seeing them loading up the mini-14 as they drove by that instead of ordering a tactically foolish “felony stop” that they didn’t just pull up and start blasting them with their shotgun.
As usual, too many of our “rules” favor the bad guys.
josef
August 19th, 2012
9:25 pm
K’CHAK
Have you read Daniel Quinn’s “Ishmael?” If not, do…
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
9:25 pm
Scout
Just went back and googled that one. It’s not the one I thought it was. That incident reads like the flying fecal matter hitting the oscillating wind generating machine. Wow…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
9:25 pm
josephine:
Nope ………. you chose mine. I chose yours.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
9:26 pm
Scout
I can tell you that some of those rules are changing. Not fast enough for me, but they are changing.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
9:27 pm
Brosephus:
Yep. Everything that could go wrong ……… went wrong.
There’s a made for T.V. movie about it.
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
9:29 pm
I’m gonna have to look for that one. Reading it makes it sound like one of those game changing incidents like the North Hollywood shootout.
josef
August 19th, 2012
9:32 pm
A-ga-te-no
Yeah, but yours is not an insult! I guess I may have to go find you one that is, hunh?
Brosephus™
August 19th, 2012
9:33 pm
Y’all have fun. Time to call it quits. This rainfall is making me quite sleepy.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
9:34 pm
josephine:
Just better to politely use the handle I have chosen. That’s the way it is supposed to work unless you want to be different.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
9:34 pm
“Remington Model 700 – Over 5,000,000 sold. The world’s largest army ain’t in China.” Remington Arms, Inc.
Goody Three Shoes
August 19th, 2012
9:35 pm
U.S. Rep. Todd Akin, who won Missouri’s GOP Senate primary earlier this month and will face incumbent Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill in November’s general election, said Sunday that he misspoke when he claimed “legitimate rape” rarely resulted in pregnancy.
Answering a question about whether or not he thought abortion should be legal in the case of rape, Akin explained his opposition by citing unnamed bodily responses he said prevented pregnancy.
– Follow the Ticker on Twitter: @PoliticalTicker
“First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare,” Akin said of rape-induced pregnancy in an interview with KTVI. A clip of the interview was posted online by the liberal super PAC American Bridge.
“If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down,” Akin continued. He did not provide an explanation for what constituted “legitimate rape.”
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
9:35 pm
………………. or we can just not exchange posts again.
Your call.
An observer
August 19th, 2012
9:36 pm
I understand private schools and public schools. Why do we need charter schools and where do they fit in? I do not think we need quasi-private/quasi-public schools.
josef
August 19th, 2012
9:37 pm
A-ga-te-no
Unless I want to be different..? Why in G-d’s name would I ever want to conform? It ain’t American…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
9:39 pm
“I’m afraid of a world run by adults who were never spanked and got trophies for just participating!”
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
9:39 pm
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but are then shocked and offended to discover there are other views.” William F. Buckley
JamVet
August 19th, 2012
9:40 pm
A BIG anniversary week ahead for our American government-hating Republicans.
Twenty years ago this week the birth of the Death to America movement started in the GOP at Ruby Ridge, Idaho…
zeke
August 19th, 2012
9:45 pm
How true! Liberals are only about indoctrination our children to be good little liberal commie sheep, nothing else!~
RB from Gwinnett
August 19th, 2012
9:51 pm
“How true! Liberals are only about indoctrination our children to be good little liberal commie sheep, nothing else!~”
And there’s JamVet right on cue!!!
josef
August 19th, 2012
9:53 pm
And liberals are different from conservatives in this?
JamVet
August 19th, 2012
9:54 pm
And the stuck in the 1950s stupid RB opens his government hating yap.
As youhate our government so much, I suggest you check out Air Iran.
They’re ready when you are.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
10:02 pm
Weaver was totally responsible for the death of his son and wife due to his criminal, arrogant and irresponsible actions.
1) He was indicted for selling a sawed-off shotgun to an ATF undercover agent.
In the ensuing firefight Weaver’s son was killed and a U.S. Marshal was murdered.
2) He should have appeared in court to answer the charges.
3) He defied a federal judge and “holed-up” in his cabin in the mountains.
4) U.S. Marshals had his property under surveillance to try to effect an arrest.
5) The Marshals were discovered by his dog and retreated (as ordered) to avoid a confrontation.
6) Weaver (along with his young son and a man named Harris) PURSUED the Marshals.
7) The Marshals yelled several times for Weaver to stop but he pursured them OFF his property.
9) Weaver’s wife was accidentally killed by the FBI based as a result of his continued armed resistance.
The above information is available in transcript or video form based on Congressional Hearings.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
10:03 pm
The above “smily face” instead of a #8 is not intentional.
RB from Gwinnett
August 19th, 2012
10:03 pm
No thanks, Jammie. I’ll stay here for now and see if we can’t stop the slide into socialism or at least slow it down a bit. Have you considered a move to Cuba, North Korea, or China? You could have your commie utopia by the end of the week! I’ll even make you a deal. I’ll take up a collection from the other bloggers here who would be happy to buy your one way ticket under the agreement you continue posting from there and you never come back. Deal?
Any other bloggers want to contribute to Jammie’s one-way?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 19th, 2012
10:16 pm
Any other bloggers want to contribute to Jammie’s one-way?
I wonder what the answer would be if we query your employees about a one-way trip for you.
"the emperor has no clothes"
August 19th, 2012
10:16 pm
Newsweek Magazine
Niall Ferguson: Obama’s Gotta Go
Aug 19, 2012 1:00 AM EDT
“…Yet the question confronting the country nearly four years later is not who was the better candidate four years ago. It is whether the winner has delivered on his promises. And the sad truth is that he has not…”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/08/19/niall-ferguson-on-why-barack-obama-needs-to-go.html
G Mare
August 19th, 2012
10:17 pm
No, RB, re a ticket out for Kam. However, I might seriously consider a contribution for one for you.
G Mare
August 19th, 2012
10:18 pm
Oops, Jam.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 19th, 2012
10:20 pm
http://www.businessinsider.com/niall-ferguson-has-been-wrong-on-economics-2012-8
"the emperor has no clothes"
August 19th, 2012
10:22 pm
Ryan August 11
“…No one disputes President Obama inherited a difficult situation. And, in his first two years, with his party in complete control of Washington, he passed nearly every item on his agenda. But that didn’t make things better.
In fact, we find ourselves in a nation facing debt, doubt and despair.
This is the worst economic recovery in 70 years. Unemployment has been above 8 percent for more than three years, the longest run since the Great Depression. Families are hurting.
We have the largest deficits and the biggest federal government since WWII.
Nearly 1 out of 6 Americans are in poverty — the worst rate in a generation. Moms and dads are struggling to make ends meet.
Household incomes have dropped by more than $4,000 over the past four years.
Whatever the explanations, whatever the excuses, this is a record of failure.
President Obama, and too many like him in Washington, have refused to make difficult decisions because they are more worried about their next election than they are about the next generation. We might have been able to get away with that before, but not now. We’re in a different, and dangerous, moment. We’re running out of time — and we can’t afford 4 more years of this…”
G Mare
August 19th, 2012
10:23 pm
Legitimate rape vs illegitimate rape? Seriously????
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 19th, 2012
10:24 pm
Anyway, as you read Niall Ferguson, it’s worth noting that he has been wrong on economics ever since Obama took office.
bman
August 19th, 2012
10:33 pm
If you guys want to raise 50k (cash only) + a one-way ticket to China, I’ll take it and go. Just need enough time to sell everything I own, then I’m outta here.
The thought of living around all Asian women frightens me like zero!!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
August 19th, 2012
10:40 pm
TAPS !
barking frog
August 19th, 2012
10:42 pm
Niall Ferguson is no more
reliable than the british
accented telesellers on
late night infomercials.
oldguy
August 19th, 2012
10:46 pm
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
― Winston Churchill
A perfect description of the current president’s political position.
Kamchak - "Socialism" is just a code word for "fear," the monster under you bed ~ Kamchak
August 19th, 2012
10:48 pm
Socialism — BOO!
G Mare
August 19th, 2012
10:49 pm
Hey, some of y’all need to Google MCP. I figure the ones who know what that stands for don’t need the education. Anyone who doesn’t, PLEASE CHECK IT OUT. Yeah, right, like that’s gonna’ happen.
bman
August 19th, 2012
10:56 pm
What’s MCP??
G Mare
August 19th, 2012
11:16 pm
bman, Google is your friend, but I will save you the search. MCP is male chauvinist pig. A prime example of this is Congressman Akin, who said said that women who suffer “legitimate” rape don’t get pregnant from rape because our bodies have ways to prevent that, so he is against abortion in those cases. In fact he also said he is against abortion for ANY reason, except MAYBE to save the life of the woman. See how that worked out for the 16 yr old who died of Leukemia because her country would not let her have the treatment she needed lest it harm her 13 week old fetus. MCP!!!!
bman
August 19th, 2012
11:20 pm
“Google is your friend” …I did google it. You can google this – HFSAY.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 19th, 2012
11:22 pm
G Mare
CNN’s Dana Loesch proves that it’s not just men that can be wrong on this issue.
moonbat betty
August 19th, 2012
11:27 pm
bman,
You just had to go and ask that question.
You get what you deserve.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 19th, 2012
11:34 pm
You can google this – HFSAY.
By all means go to China and wow the women with your obvious charms.
G Mare
August 19th, 2012
11:40 pm
Sadly, Kam, I do know that. Palin & Coulter anyone?
bman, I am not going to Google that as I figure it will raise my blood pressure. I am 71 years old and I have suffered through too much of the MCP mindset in my life. That whole “pat the
) and I might read it, but I am Not going to go looking for it.
Iittle woman on the head” has not worked for me for a long time. Of course, you can post it here (if you dare
bman
August 19th, 2012
11:42 pm
Aw Kam .. . pretend she’s RB. All of a sudden, it’s not all that bad eh
G Mare
August 19th, 2012
11:50 pm
bman, if you are saying to pretend that I am RB, you obviously do not know Kam or me very well. Ah, “and so it goes.”
bman
August 19th, 2012
11:52 pm
Gmare.. .. You’re 71?? Why didn’t you say so?
Bernie
August 19th, 2012
11:56 pm
Very strange how the Republicans and the TEA PARTY and its many supporters Rail on Federal and STATE funded Programs like Food Stamps, Welfare and Medicaid. They rail and demonize those who receive and seek such benefits daily in the media constantly about how such citizens are destroying this GREAT NATION.
However, concerning the issue of the current STATE FUNDED CHARTER SCHOOLS proposal is somehow not “STATE WELFARE”. and this BRAND of “WELFARE” is GOOD and acceptable.
We now have their undying support and willingness for the Governor Of Georgia to proceed with an untested and unproven “NEW” STATE WIDE PLAN in the amount of $430 MILLION DOLLARS!
Maybe, the other WELFARE FUNDS come from a different country that has A state Named GEORGIA too!
Either YOU are FOR “WELFARE” or YOU ARE NOT!
The Hypocritical position of those who support such a plan is as embarrassing as a GOP Congressman that goes to IS REAL and get drunk then skinny dips “BUTT NAKED” with and in front of other Congressional family members on official U.S, Congressional approved and official business.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 19th, 2012
11:58 pm
Gmare.. .. You’re 71?? Why didn’t you say so?
She has, several times.
So why don’t you pretend that your mother or grandmother is G Mare and say, “Hey grandma, how fu*cking stupid are you?”
All of a sudden, it’s not all that bad eh?
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
August 20th, 2012
12:03 am
Inadequate funding for traditional public schools: How do we know? Who knows how efficiently, effectively and compliantly such funds are expended?
My remedy: Regular, comprehensive financial, personnel and efficacy audits of all our local public school systems and charter schools should be undertaken by competent, disinterested, out-of-state entities. Their unredacted reports should be disseminated to all electronic and print media in Our Home State.
bman
August 20th, 2012
12:07 am
Kam .. .. You believe that’s what it stands for? I don’t think along the same lines as you do.
I challenge you to search the blog and find where I have ever even said anything that would be considered R-Rated …forpetesakes!
UGJT – can you come up with something for that?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 20th, 2012
12:15 am
Kam .. .. You believe that’s what it stands for? I don’t think along the same lines as you do.
Okay, it’s time to get into Mr. Peabody’s wayback machine and revisit your original request.
bman
August 19th, 2012
11:20 pm
“Google is your friend” …I did google it. You can google this – HFSAY.
Well now, Let me google that for you and see what comes up, shall we?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 20th, 2012
12:16 am
Yep, there it is first on the list.
G Mare
August 20th, 2012
12:20 am
bman, I just did say that I am 71. What else you wanna’ know? I have 3 adult children & 7 grands. I graduated college, cum laude, when I was 51. I have been a card carrying member of NOW for about 20 years. I always vote for candidates who believe, as I do, that we are our brothers & sisters keepers. And I am truly sad & appalled that all the Christians do not follow the teachings of Jesus who said, “Love one another” and, paraphrasing here, what you do to/for the least among you, you do unto me.
I do not relish heavyduty theological discussions, but I will try to answer any questions you care to put to me. And if I don’t know, I will say so. Deal?
bman
August 20th, 2012
12:21 am
That’s actually kinda funny. If you would like to think I went to the urban dictionary to get some ideas, I’m okay with that. But, even though I may have thought so a time or 2, I’ve never called anyone stupid. To throw in a colorful adjective with it? nah…
G Mare
August 20th, 2012
12:23 am
Kam, I love you!!!!
Take THAT, bman.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 20th, 2012
12:26 am
If you would like to think I went to the urban dictionary to get some ideas, I’m okay with that.
Wow, you really missed the point.
I did exactly as you instructed and googled HFSAY.
I didn’t say you went to the urban dictionary, what I’m saying is that before you before you instruct someone to google something it’s probably a good idea to be sure that google is your friend on this.
bman
August 20th, 2012
12:32 am
Gmare.. .. You didn’t have to give me your bio because, I’m not giving you mine lol
However, as the election eases on in, I’m sure I will eventually ask you a question, or 2.
G Mare
August 20th, 2012
12:35 am
And I have to ask, bman, what the he$$ difference does my age make? What, you can’t beat up on old ladies? You think all older people must be senile? Gee, I truly feel sorry for the older people in your family.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 20th, 2012
12:36 am
G Mare
Please notice that although bman has vehemently denied being mean spirited with his acronym HFSAY, it has been over an hour since his request to google HFSAY and he has not offered any alternative meaning.
bman
August 20th, 2012
12:38 am
“instruct someone to google something it’s probably a good idea to be sure that google is your friend on this.”
I searched it…after. I remember not seeing anything. But, there it is
bman
August 20th, 2012
12:42 am
Kam haha…I hit random buttons on my iPhone.
Gmarr.. .. I’m nice to the 65 and older crowd. I’m extra nice to my parents, by the way.
G Mare
August 20th, 2012
12:44 am
bman, I have ZERO interest in your bio. Your ignorant, mysoginistic comments here tell me all I care to know about you. And, you are now on my Permanent Ignore List. Yeah, I get that you will not be bothered by this. Your loss!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 20th, 2012
12:50 am
Kam haha…I hit random buttons on my iPhone.
Well, I guess there’s only one thing left to observe then huh?
HFSAY?
bman
August 20th, 2012
12:51 am
Gmare.. .. By the way, don’t listen too much to Kam. He enjoys stirring the pot. Hes also said things to me that would (and do) push people to the edge. He pretty much has given up on me. And why? Because I kill him with kindness.
PS .. .. His mind works in mysterious ways. Ask him about his references to Asians, their eyes and cookies. : )
G Mare
August 20th, 2012
12:52 am
Okay, I am out for tonight. Please remember, bman, I’ll looking’ for you in the morning.
Steve-USA "None of the Above"
August 20th, 2012
12:53 am
Mary Elizabeth-
What happened with your big announcement that you would no longer post here?
G Mare
August 20th, 2012
12:58 am
Kam is my friend. You – not so much.
bman
August 20th, 2012
12:58 am
Gmare .. .. It’s okay. You’re certainly free to read, reply or ignore anyone you wish. You can even do it without announcing it. Of course, I’ve seen you make this announcement several times. And still, somehow, I missed that age thing. Oh well…
G Mare
August 20th, 2012
1:01 am
Mary Elizabeth, stand by your convictions, my dear!
skydog
August 20th, 2012
1:06 am
Don`t put too much blame on parents or schools for bad students. I`m not saying accept bad behavior, that will never fly,ever.
This is the flip side of parents who could care less about their child’s education.
My dad was a banker down in Albany. He came to me in 1966 and said that he and some doctors and lawyers were starting a private school. He said my grades in Jr High were not good and blah, blah blah.
I cut to the chase and told him I didn`t mind going to school with “those people”. Not an option, he said.
This school, Deerfield, is still going strong and is a great school. They hand picked the best teachers, had the best facilities, and it had real small classes. I got whippings every six weeks and lived on restriction. My parents did everything they could do.
But nothing worked.
I did not want to learn at this point.
They talked about military school, but figured I would be a threat to screw up the entire armed forces and the communist would come get us, so they dropped that idea.
They sent me to Ga. Southern in 1969, sold the house and got a 1 bedroom apartment.
I finally got the message. You can thank my parents that we have a strong military.
My dad paid a lot of money to back up his distorted views of how things should be, but he didn`t expect any tax breaks for his choice.
Steve-USA "None of the Above"
August 20th, 2012
1:11 am
Mary Elizabeth-
Your conviction’s were you were quitting posting, I knew you were just grandstanding.
skydog
August 20th, 2012
1:19 am
Same principals apply to the draft. If you get a bunch of people who don`t want to be there the training takes a looooong time. That war may be over before you teach me where 4th gear is on that truck.
When Obama suggested all youth serve their country in some capacity, like in the USA, that got spun into “an internal personal army to come and take over the country”.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
August 20th, 2012
1:25 am
Your conviction’s were you were quitting posting, I knew you were just grandstanding.
IIRC, Mary Elizabeth’s assertion was that she would continue to make on topic comments, but discontinue engaging in dialogue among other regulars here.
Bernie
August 20th, 2012
1:29 am
Just Maybe the Republican Candidate Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.) may be on to something.
“The Female BODY has WAYS To Try and shut the whole thing DOWN!”
Being that they are the largest Voting bloc…..I Welcome their UNIQUE expertise. in Shutting ALL of the REPUBLICAN PLANS DOWN in NOVEMBER!
Ladies We need you in LARGE NUMBERS at THE POLLS come November…it seems that the average Republican and Tea Party supporter think you are a WIT-LESS TWIT!
I for one have a Healthier respect and appreciation for your contribution to America
and so does President OBAMA!
As far as LITTLE HORN & THE PROUD ONE, they have already TOLD YOU of their Plans!
Those Plans as stated, I do not think are in YOUR BEST INTEREST at ALL!
See YOU Smiling…..At the POLLS in November!
America Needs YOU………. and Your LEADERSHIP!
Mary Elizabeth
August 20th, 2012
1:49 am
I have just posted the following response to another poster on Maureen Downey’s blog on this topic. I wish to repost, here, to communicate my thoughts – related to this issue – with readers of this blog:
——————————————————————-
” I am going to say a few blunt words to you now so that you might see. ALEC has effected your life, my life, and the lives of all other Georgians more than you are aware. It has had influence in the creation of this Constitutional Amendment, imo. Most of Georgia’s legislators – I can assure you – are aware of its influence, and it is past time for Georgia’s citizens to become aware of this truth.
Jefferson was a primary shaper of the ideals and values of this nation. He would be appalled at the prospect of the education of America’s young turned into a profit-making industry for the greed of a few, and that is what could easily happen. Just as Lincoln, in his era, knew that it was up to him to have the fortitude and the vision to continue Jefferson’s (and Washington’s, Adam’s, and our other founders’) vision for our nation, so it is up to us, the living, to now know what we must be about in today’s America to make certain that this nation continues to be one “of, by. and for” the people, and not a nation for the corporate, monetary interests of the few. If you do not understand that, you are missing the main point of what this is about.
I am posting this simply for your awareness. There is no need for a response. Thank you.
———————————————————————–
From the link below, Jefferson’s words to William Giles in a letter dated 1825:
‘Jefferson wrote in 1825 to William Branch Giles of ‘a vast accession of strength from their younger recruits, who, having nothing in them of the feelings or principles of ‘76, now look to a single and splendid government of an aristocracy, founded on banking institutions, and monied incorporations under the guise and cloak of their favored branches of manufactures, commerce and navigation, riding and ruling over the plundered ploughman and beggared yeomanry.’ ‘ ”
http://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/end-democracyquotation#footnote3_54erh5f
——————————————————————
Misty Fyed
August 20th, 2012
5:43 am
This just in….Public education a drain on Charter School funds.
Steven
August 20th, 2012
5:48 am
This Charter School amendment is not going anywhere in my circle! Why take taxpayer dollars and go and set up private education? This is sooooo not a conservative value. So they say! Conservative only want to be conservative only when it suits them. Just like Paul Ryan arguing against the bailout only to privately write letters to get secure some bailout money that he said will not work…..! Hypocrites! Charter school amendment….NEVER!!
stands for decibels
August 20th, 2012
6:02 am
Legitimate rape vs illegitimate rape? Seriously?
in related news:
http://www.theonion.com/video/gop-trying-to-keep-elderly-voting-base-alive-until,29073/
Orange12
August 20th, 2012
6:15 am
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/08/19/niall-ferguson-on-why-barack-obama-needs-to-go.html
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
August 20th, 2012
6:18 am
Grand Monday morning to all y’all…
http://news.icanhascheezburger.com/2012/08/19/political-pictures-good-looking-ones-at-that/
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
August 20th, 2012
6:23 am
…and how true!
http://news.icanhascheezburger.com/2012/08/19/political-pictures-fire-the-painters/
Drudge
August 20th, 2012
6:56 am
Well, the solution is to obviously to throw more money at it – worked wonders in places like Chicago. In fact, that is the answer to everything. If you want better public education, move to a Republican area. It’s funny how those things coincide…
Everyone on here who is stating that the parents are the problem are 100% correct – do you think teachers forgot how to teach in the last 30 years or that kids got dumber? Nope – our society has come to view public schools like dry cleaners; drop them off dumb and pick them up educated. More entitlement mentality – someone else must do everything for you…
Judy
August 20th, 2012
7:08 am
Amazing, you are so focused on not funding charter schools. Well, for years the district run charter schools have been fully funded and it is exposed that our drop out rate is one of the worst in the country. Oh, it is about the money – not the students. Let parents and students make the CHOICE!
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
August 20th, 2012
7:36 am
“Legitimate rape vs illegitimate rape? Seriously?”
nope.
no war on wimmen here.
move along.
stands for decibels (SfBA)
August 20th, 2012
7:50 am
Don’t just throw money at the problem
[...]
Throwing more money at education is not always the best answer.
[...]
the solution is to obviously to throw more money at it
[...]
It doesn’t matter how much money you throw at school systems
“Groupthink? Us conservatives? Whatevah do you mean.”
stands for decibels (SfBA)
August 20th, 2012
7:53 am
no war on wimmen here.
I have to say, Claire McCaskill has been doubly blessed by uniquely tone-deaf and imbecilic right wingers in her midst.
Thanks, right wing! we couldn’t hold the Senate without your help.
the cat
August 20th, 2012
8:02 am
Stands-how do you do that link thing and put it in blue? Hones question. Thanks.
Doggone/GA
August 20th, 2012
8:04 am
“-how do you do that link thing and put it in blue? Hones question. Thanks.”
Just copy the link from the address bar and then past it. The system turns it blue:
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/08/19/charter-school-issue-a-drain-on-public-education/?cp=8
stands for decibels (SfBA)
August 20th, 2012
8:06 am
the cat, have a look at this:
http://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_a_href.asp
and give it a try.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
August 20th, 2012
8:07 am
dB – “Thanks, right wing! we couldn’t hold the Senate without your help.”
welp, we have our own brand of stupid (islands tipping over) … it just seems that theirs if far more offensive.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
August 20th, 2012
8:08 am
is … not if
stands for decibels (SfBA)
August 20th, 2012
8:12 am
we have our own brand of stupid (islands tipping over)
I’ll defend Hank Johnson’s less-than-artful phrasing, and where it came from (a perfectly legitimate concern about ecological sustainability) any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
August 20th, 2012
8:13 am
words fail:
“A year ago, my wife, Brooke, and I joined colleagues for dinner at the Sea of Galilee in Israel. After dinner I followed some Members of Congress in a spontaneous and very brief dive into the sea and regrettably I jumped into the water without a swimsuit,” Yoder said in a statement to POLITICO. “It is my greatest honor to represent the people of Kansas in Congress and [for] any embarrassment I have caused for my colleagues and constituents, I apologize.”
(snip)
These GOP sources confirmed the following freshmen lawmakers also went swimming that night: Rep. Steve Southerland (R-Fla.) and his daughter; Rep. Tom Reed (R-N.Y.) and his wife; Reps. Ben Quayle (R-Ariz.), Jeff Denham (R-Calif.) and Michael Grimm (R-N.Y.). Many of the lawmakers who ventured into the lake said they did so because of the religious significance of the waters. Others said they were simply cooling off after a long day. Several privately admitted that alcohol may have played a role in why some of those present decided to jump in.
alcohol??? gee, ya think???
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79865.html#ixzz245VTARPa
the cat
August 20th, 2012
8:15 am
Stands-thanks!
the cat
August 20th, 2012
8:18 am
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79865.html#ixzz245VTARPa
And we wonder why those foreenerz hate American tourists.
stands for decibels (SfBA)
August 20th, 2012
8:18 am
UnU, just to put a slightly different sort of light on this alcohol-related incident:
I really don’t see what the big deal is with a bunch of congresspeople and their senior staff getting drunk during a trip to Israel and jumping into the Sea of Galilee. [...]
I guess I can see why Eric Cantor is upset. As the only Jewish Republican elected official in the known universe, he probably felt like an a-hole when he learned that his chief of staff and his then communications director got rip-roaring hammered and jumped into the Sea of Galilee. But, really, this can’t be unusual behavior in the wingnut world. You wake up the next morning, eat some greasy food, meet with Salam Fayyad, the Palestinian Authority prime minister, and then maybe go ask a clergyman for forgiveness. No one gives a sh-t.
Mary Elizabeth
August 20th, 2012
8:21 am
I just posted the following, on this issue, on Kyle Wingfield’s blog. Readers of this blog should also be made savvy to what is going on regarding the teachers of these special charter schools (that would be formed by this Constitutional Amendment). See below:
Charter Starter, Too: “The state chartered special schools are being given an OPTION (not a requirement) to explore other investment opportunities besides TRS. Teachers CHOOSING to work in these schools will know this prior to being employed and can decide for themselves.”
==============================================
“Your have chosen your words, above, shrewdly, which tells me a lot about who you probably are besides being a parent and teacher. If a given teacher has no other prospect for a job, because of teacher layoffs in traditional public schools, she/he may have no other financial choice but to work in one of these special charter schools. You, and readers, should be made aware that Rep. Jan Jones brought before the legislature in the last legislative session a bill in which teachers from these special charter schools were NOT to be given an option of whether they could join, or not, the Teacher Retirement System of Georgia. I read the language of Rep. Jones’ bill very carefully. Principals in these special state charter schools (formed by this Constitutional Amendment) were to be given the option of disallowing their teachers from joining the TRS. Their teachers would have had NO choice in whether or not they could have joined the TRS, once hired. If their principal said they could not join the TRS, then they couldn’t join it, even if they desired to. That is a regression in the respect afforded teachers as adults with full autonomy, and it reeks of paternalism toward teachers.
Charter Starter, Too, you are only disseminating surface realities to the public with this post of yours. Jan Jones’ bill was a bill that would have undermined not only the choices of those particular teachers in those special charter schools (formed by this Constitutional amendment), but it would undermine the TRS itself. The bill was pulled, fortunately, but its content should tell you, and the reading public, the intent behind its having being created to begin with. I will remind you, again, that Rep. Jan Jones is a member of ALEC.
BTW, the Georgia Teacher Retirement System’s funds are doing well because they are in the hands of financial experts who have the best interests of Georgia’s public school teachers in mind. Teachers, a few years back, refused to let the state of Georgia handle entirely their teaching funds’ investments, unlike other state agency employees’ retirement funds, and Georgia’s teachers have also refused to let Risky Venture Capitalists in Georgia – whose revenues fell to the tune of 40% according to the Atlanta Business Chronicle this past quarter – use any percentage of their retirement monies for their own risky adventures in business, unlike other state agencies, in which politicians have controlled other state employees’ choices, in this regard.
Most teachers are savvy to what is going on, stealthily, to their detriment, by some Republican politicans in Georgia’s General Assembly. Shame on them.”
observer
August 20th, 2012
8:24 am
Dems automatically oppose anything that may interfere with the dumbing down of American students…after all, if they end up intelligent they may not become part of the liberal stupid base.
FrankLeeDarling
August 20th, 2012
8:30 am
Republicans make me glad I don’t have children
Thomas Heyward Jr
August 20th, 2012
8:30 am
Statists………………………..Please leave our children alone.
Didn’t LBJ do enough?
stands for decibels (SfBA)
August 20th, 2012
8:30 am
colored SHEETZ
Ronin
August 20th, 2012
8:30 am
Georgia schools rank at/near the bottom on national test scores and have for decades. How someone could attempt to make a cogent argument against trying a new program is beyond rational thought.
If you want your child to receive a quality education, home school them or skip buying the new 7 series BMW and send them to a private school. Presently, your child is a political pawn in the state district school system.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
August 20th, 2012
8:31 am
Observer,
You seem to forget the Liberal Mantra…
“We think, therefore we are Liberal.”
stands for decibels (SfBA)
August 20th, 2012
8:31 am
Also, if you have to fall back on a term like “statist” to make a point from the right, you’ve already a) self-identified as some kind of Ayn Rand nutbag, and b) surrendered the argument.
headin’ upstairs.
TiredOfIt
August 20th, 2012
8:50 am
Last year, Akin joined with GOP vice presidential candidate Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) as two of the original co-sponsors of the “No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act,” a bill which, among other things, introduced the country to the bizarre term “forcible rape.”
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
August 20th, 2012
8:55 am
The Georgia Republicans are clearly not satisfied with the speed at
which public education is being dumbed down & dismantled. They
are sure private for-profit jaysus bible schools can do this faster &
much more efficiently.
The Georgia Republicans want to give your tax dollars to private
for-profit companies to teach Georgia’s children that jaysus rode
on a dinosaur, and that ignorance is some kind of ‘folksy virtue.’
Man, back when we were civilized, and ATL was a world city
on the cusp of being a shining light on the world’s ‘hill,’
you couldn’t have even typed those words with a straight face.
Jerry Eads
August 20th, 2012
1:22 pm
Jay, I put this over in Kyle’s but with your permission I’ll repeat myself:
I will be forever fascinated that people who have the temerity to call themselves “conservative” would look to central control by state appointed political appointees as a solution to any disliked electoral process – in this case local elections (!). Who could possibly actually believe that such an approach would lead to better “parental control” — except, perhaps, for those two or three political appointees who happened to be parents?
We KNOW from an avalanche of research (and yes, I’ve read most of it in the refereed journals) that charter schools are AT BEST no better than the regular public schools they are intended to provide escape from, which makes them DISMAL FAILURES as a “fix” for anything about public schooling.
Yet we have elected officials who are virtually hysterical in their desire to centralize control of rampant implementation of them at the state level. How can anyone come to any other conclusion than that there are ulterior motives afoot – that most llikely have everything to do with large sums of money for someone – and absolutely nothing to do with the welfare of kids.
michael payne
August 20th, 2012
3:32 pm
I live in Cherokee County and have two kids that attend Cherokee Charter. They left an excellent public school (Johnston Elementary) so we are lucky I guess that if the Charter is shut down it is not the end of the world. What about the kids who are attending the Charter because they were unhappy with the school they were attending. They are being sent back to the plantation so the PTA and Dr. P can have their hands on all the funds. If the school board and the Dr. Petruzielo were interested in the students instead of the funds they would welcome charter schools. That way they get to keep the local money even though my two kids would not be there but that is not enough for boss hog he wants the local and the state money. I just trust competition and the school board is anti-competition as a matter of fact the board (Mike Chapman) suggested we all move out of the county if the schools are not up our standards. Local control starts with the parents and ends with the parents. The charter school is not perfect but guess what if I get sick of spending an hour everyday in carpool I have a choice (moving out of the county is not one of them) I can put my kid back in public school and let them ride the bus then I can put my head back in the sand and hope I get a government worker who cares about their job (do not like my odds) to educate my children. I find it amazing that I even have to debate people who do not know or care about my kids on where I can send them to school. True conservatives just want the money to follow the students it is pretty simple.