In many ways, Ryan 2012 a bigger gamble than Palin 2008
Four years ago, when news broke of Sarah Palin’s selection as the GOP’s vice presidential nominee, I happened to be with two of my more conservative friends. They were ecstatic about the choice, chatting excitedly together and believing it to be a political masterstroke that all but guaranteed victory for John McCain.
At the time, I didn’t know much at all about Palin, and what I did know made me dubious. 
But I remember being struck by how very differently they and I perceived the situation. It was as if they shared a perception of the world that I had no hope of tapping into or comprehending.
Today, four years later, we have Paul Ryan as the GOP vice presidential nominee, another pick that has excited the Republican base. But while Ryan is young and photogenic, he is also no Sarah Palin. He already has a career of consequence behind him, he takes his job and responsibility seriously and “gotcha” questions such as “what newspapers do you read?” are not going to cause him trouble. He is a qualified pick.
But something else is very different as well. On the surface, Republicans are very happy about the selection of one of their movement’s bright young stars. Democrats are equally thrilled by the pick. Somebody, it seems, is going to be very disappointed. And in GOP inner circles, there’s a deep fear about who that “somebody” is likely to be.
Here’s a sampling:
“There are a lot races that are close to the line we’re not going to win now because they’re going to battle out who’s going to kill grandma first, ObamaCare or Paul Ryan’s budget,” said one Republican strategist who works on congressional races. “It could put the Senate out of reach. In the House it puts a bunch of races in play that would have otherwise been safe. … It remains to be seen how much damage this causes, but my first blush is this is not good.”
Former Rep. Tom Reynolds (R-N.Y.), who chaired the NRCC from 2003-2006, warned that he foresaw in this election shades of President George W. Bush’s fight to create a voucher program for Social Security early in his second term, which many say cost the GOP seats in 2006.
“You saw what happened to Bush with Social Security in the 2006 election,” he said. “This is déjà vu.”
“Away from the cameras, and with all the usual assurances that people aren’t being quoted by name, there is an unmistakable consensus among Republican operatives in Washington: Romney has taken a risk with Ryan that has only a modest chance of going right — and a huge chance of going horribly wrong…
And the more pessimistic strategists don’t even feign good cheer: They think the Ryan pick is a disaster for the GOP. Many of these people don’t care that much about Romney — they always felt he faced an improbable path to victory — but are worried that Ryan’s vocal views about overhauling Medicare will be a millstone for other GOP candidates in critical House and Senate races.”
“I think it’s a very bold choice. And an exciting and interesting pick. It’s going to elevate the campaign into a debate over big ideas. It means Romney-Ryan can run on principles and provide some real direction and vision for the Republican Party. And probably lose. Maybe big,” said former President George W. Bush senior adviser Mark McKinnon.
And as Ronald Brownstein notes at National Journal, the choice creates an opening for Democrats among older downscale white voters, the demographic group that Republicans have come to rely upon more and more heavily with each passing political cycle:
“Ryan’s ambitious budget blueprint, as passed twice by House Republicans over the past two years, crystallizes the GOP’s highest policy priority: shrinking the size of the federal government, largely by dramatically restructuring entitlement programs led by Medicare and Medicaid. But the GOP today is increasingly dependent on the votes of older and blue-collar whites who — while eager to scale back government programs that transfer income to the poor — are much more resistant to retrenching entitlement programs like Medicare and Social Security that largely benefit the middle-class.
Those attitudes haven’t stopped those voters from providing Republicans commanding margins in recent elections. But in polls, most of those older and blue-collar voters have consistently recoiled from the centerpiece proposal of Ryan’s budget: his initiative to convert Medicare from its existing structure, in which Washington pays doctors and hospitals directly for care they provide to seniors, into a premium support or voucher system that would provide seniors a fixed sum of money to either purchase private insurance or buy into the existing program….
In March, the United Technologies/National Journal Congressional Connection Poll offered respondents two options for (Medicare). Just 19 percent of whites older than 65 endorsed Ryan’s approach, which said “Medicare should be changed to a system where the government provides seniors with a fixed sum of money they could use either to purchase private health insurance or to pay the cost of remaining in the current Medicare program.” Fully 74 percent of white seniors said instead that “Medicare should continue as it is today, with the government providing health insurance and paying doctors and hospitals directly for the services they provide to seniors.” Among non-college whites, 63 percent said they preferred the current system, while only 26 percent backed Ryan’s approach.
Ryan’s selection, in other words, seems to be an even bigger political gamble than the selection of Palin four years ago. In fact, in the pairing of Bain Capital executive Mitt Romney with Ayn Rand acolyte Paul Ryan, President Obama may have been given precisely the opponents that he wanted most.
Given the economic situation, that doesn’t guarantee victory by any means. But I have to think that Obama likes his chances.
– Jay Bookman
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889 comments Add your comment
Common Sense
August 14th, 2012
11:05 am
Yes Joe, the National Weather Service needs to lock and load….just in case.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
August 14th, 2012
11:06 am
knock knock knock
MiltonMan
knock knock knock
MiltonMan
knock knock knock
MiltonMan
You missed a few things…..
Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act. (This is the first federal legislation to be enacted with Obama as its primary sponsor)
Became law
· Secure Fence Act. Authorized construction of fencing and other security improvements along the United States–Mexico border
Became law
· The Lugar–Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act. The Bill expanded the Nunn–Lugar cooperative threat reduction concept to conventional weapons, including shoulder-fired missiles and anti-personnel mines
Became Law
· The “Coburn–Obama Transparency Act” eliminated gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and the establishment of USAspending.gov, a web search engine launched in December 2007 and run by the Office of Management and Budget to require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACS or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contribution and the combined amount of the contributions
Became law
· Amendment to the State Children’s Health Insurance Program providing one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries
Passed in Senate
· Energy Policy Act of 2005 to add $200 million for Function 270 (Energy) for the demonstration and monitoring of carbon capture and sequestration technology by the Department of Energy
Passed in Senate
· The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (after amendments became the Secure Fence Act which became law)
Passed in Senate
· Education Bill. Require that the Director of Mathematics, Science, and Engineering Education to establish a program to recruit and provide mentors for women and underrepresented minorities who are interested in careers in mathematics, science and engineering.
Passed in Senate
· Summer Term Education Program. Supports summer learning opportunities for low-income students in the early grades to lessen summer learning losses that contribute to the achievement gaps separating low-income students from their middle-class peers
Passed in Senate
· Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007 a bill to cap troop levels in Iraq, begin phased redeployment, and remove all combat brigades from Iraq before April 2008.
Republicans voted against
· Iran Sanctions Enabling Act supporting divestment of state pension funds from Iran’s oil and gas industry
Republicans voted against
· Sponsored an amendment to the Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges, and calling for an official review following reports that the procedure had been used inappropriately to reduce government costs
Republicans voted against
Senator Obama sponsored approximately 820 bills in the Senate, since they are too numerous to list, I have categorized them:
· 233 regarding healthcare reform
· 125 on poverty and public assistance
· 112 crime fighting bills
· 97 economic bills
· 60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills
· 21 ethics reform bills
· 15 gun control bills
· 6 veterans affairs bills
stands for decibels (SfBA)
August 14th, 2012
11:06 am
Erskine Bowles – Bill Clinton’s chief of staff
needs to be kicked in the balls, along with Alan Simpson, and force-fed cat food.
Jefferson
August 14th, 2012
11:06 am
Ryan’s budget is a manifesto, it like Herman Cain had ZERO chances.
Those that can do, those that can’t suck up to the GOP for droppings.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
August 14th, 2012
11:06 am
oops
source for above
http://letustalk.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/senator-barack-obamas-accomplishments-please-pass-on/
Joe Hussein Mama
August 14th, 2012
11:08 am
Gordon — “I assure you reality doesn’t give a whit whether you reject it or not.”
I assure you, you’re not the arbiter of reality, here or anywhere else.
If you can dismiss what I said so cavalierly after demanding ideas, then you deserve no better treatment yourself.
“If you dare, so some research on the subject.”
If you dare, start discoursing on the subject before deciding that others in the discussion haven’t already done that.
“Start with Medicare unfunded liabilities. Then explain to me where the money will come from.”
I don’t believe you’re in a position to *demand* anything from anybody here. If you want to *discuss* it like a couple of adults, that’s great, If, OTOH, you’re going to act all high and mighty and as if everyone else is completely uninformed, then you can take a hike.
“I would love to be wrong about this.”
Oh, I don’t believe that for a *moment.* (laughing)
“Otherwise I guess you could be called a “Fiscal Entitlement Reality Denier” or a FERD. Sort of like a NERD, just not as smart.”
I have a nice name for you, too, but I’m too polite to actually post it here. Plus, Jay would probably ban me if I did.
“Hey! I think I’m on to something here! I’ll see if the Romney campaign is interested in using that. You may be famous, JHM.”
Once again, when you’re ready to grow up and have an adult discussion, you let me know, kid.
Peter
August 14th, 2012
11:08 am
After Bush and all that WAR spending for ZERO America gain….. Deficits don’t matter attitude…
Really the GOP is the way out of a financial issue ?
How have the Tigers striped changed all of a sudden ?
vietnam vet
August 14th, 2012
11:08 am
Hey its August and Mitt-the Twit still hasn’t filed his 2011 taxes returns. What’s he hiding.
Recon 0311 2533
August 14th, 2012
11:08 am
“needs to be kicked in the balls, along with Alan Simpson, and force-fed cat food.”
Now there’s an intelligent post.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
August 14th, 2012
11:09 am
GenerationScrewed –
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus-20120814,0,2474070.column
Ryan’s plan would provide a federal subsidy to people now 55 and younger to opt out of Medicare and purchase private insurance instead. Critics have dubbed this a voucher program.
Alain Enthoven, a professor emeritus at the Stanford Graduate School of Business who served as a consultant to the Carter administration on healthcare issues, told me the Ryan plan is misunderstood.
“What Ryan is trying to do is give everyone an incentive to behave in a more economical way,” he said.
The plan, Enthoven explained, would entail Medicare competing against private insurance plans. People would receive a federal subsidy pegged to one of the lower-cost private plans.
If you want more expensive coverage — good old Medicare, say — you’d have to make up the difference in annual premiums.
the problem, of course, is that health care – particularly for seniors – is incredibly expensive with the costs growing faster than the proposed federal subsidy.
mm
August 14th, 2012
11:09 am
“how does fiscal reality allow for such stupendous cuts in the revenue side?”
The cons are still be brainwashed into thinking tax cuts generate more revenue. Our deficit and debt disagree.
Jay
August 14th, 2012
11:09 am
“Unfotunately, if Jesus Christ were the GOP pick, you people would have the same negative reaction to such a pick.”
Not much chance of that happening. As if the GOP would nominate a guy who says:
“Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys.”
“Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.”
“When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return, and repayment come to you. But when you give a reception, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, since they do not have the means to repay you; for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
“Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments have become moth-eaten. …Behold, the pay of the laborers who mowed your fields, and with you have withheld, cries out against you; and the outcry of the harvesters has reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. You have lived luxuriously on the earth and led a life of wanton pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.”
“For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang.”
“If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
Not exactly rhetoric out of the GOP platform, now is it?
Joe Hussein Mama
August 14th, 2012
11:09 am
Common Sense — “Yes Joe, the National Weather Service needs to lock and load….just in case.:
They’re coming to take your canned food, toilet paper and Krugerrands! YIKES!
Welcome to the Occupation
August 14th, 2012
11:09 am
In other words, if fiscal reality gives us no choice but to cut Medicare, how does fiscal reality allow for such stupendous cuts in the revenue side?
Because the CLASS WAR being waged from the top down dictates it, that’s why.
Btw Ragnar, funny you bring up Erskine Bowles. Rumor has it he’s slated for big things come a second Obama administration.
the cat
August 14th, 2012
11:09 am
Thank you for that list Granny. Makes the two obscure bills by wiener driver boy somewhat trivial.
Brosephus™
August 14th, 2012
11:10 am
I don’t call obama any of those names(though I once referred to him as an empty suit). Does that make me a supporter of his?
ty
You tell me. You seem to be the authority on picking out Obama supporters here.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
August 14th, 2012
11:10 am
Standing O for Jay’s 11:09
JKL2
August 14th, 2012
11:11 am
0311 — “Biden’s appearance before a comparatively meager crowd came a day after the newly formed Republican ticket — presidential candidate Mitt Romney and running mate Paul Ryan — rallied a crowd of over 10,000 in High Point, N.C., about an hour away, and a crowd of approximately 4,700 people in Mooresville, N.C., about two-and-a-half hours away.”
Your takeaway from this: obama donations are way down so they couldn’t afford to pay anymore people than that to show up for the VP’s speech. The party of handouts needs to save up their money for buying actual votes on election day.
Cosby
August 14th, 2012
11:11 am
Gamble…guess he could have picked someone similar to Biden but Mitt picked someone who at least thinks, looks at numbers and tries to present a solution. What we have now is a nobody for VP who has no clue….but wait, this is what you guys want, someone in DC to throw money at you so you will not have to take care of yourself…but wait…where is the money – it is dried up…tired of pretending this country does not have problems and it is time for someone to look for answers…Ryan has at least looked at the problems, presented a solution and opened up discussion to solve the money problem. Beats just cheap talk coming from the White House
MoreRightthanLeft
August 14th, 2012
11:11 am
USinUK
Definition for racist:
a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others.
really?? thats what i am bc of a comment? you dont know me !!!
i love your agruement..name calling? i know you are but what am i..typical lib reaction..Stereotyping only works if you say it, right?
your an idiot…done!!
getalife
August 14th, 2012
11:11 am
You might want to tell your party Americans want high paying jobs not worrying about Medicare twenty years from now.
I have never seen a party so out of touch with the American people but that is what happens when you move to the radical right way out of the mainstream.
Compomise
August 14th, 2012
11:11 am
From CNN’s homepage headlines this moment:
“What Ryans plan would do to the economy”
“Is Ryan for or against Ayn Rand?”
“Ryan heckled at Iowa Fair’- Watch”(!)
“Ticker=Biden’s Dating Advice”
Oh brother.
JamVet
August 14th, 2012
11:12 am
Already starting to see violence from these liberal wackos.
This, just a few days after one of your far right wing, government-hating maniacs killed a bunch of innocent people?
Have you NO shame, Mike?
Mick
August 14th, 2012
11:12 am
donovan
Love the way you completely ignore eight long years of failure given to us by the previous guy and his republican rubber stampers. By the time he left the whole damn economic system was poised to collapse, is that waht you want a return to? Then, you have the gaul to demand that obama “fix it” now or else when your damned party has obstructed him every step of the way. Republicans had their chance and blew it bigtime, no one with a lick of sense will ever trust that party in its present form again. You are clueless…
Gordon
August 14th, 2012
11:12 am
Jay@10:56,
I don’t disagree with your points about cutting revenue. But I want to make 3 points:
1) We are dealing with two sets of numbers that I believe are orders of magnitude apart.
2) It’s not important whether Romney’s tax plan makes fundamentally chaning Medicare palatable or not. That has to be done even if we eliminated the Bush tax cuts on ALL Americans. And it has to be done because that program must survive, just as Social Security must.
3) Romney’s tax plan is a proposal, which will not become reality unless it is passed by both the Senate and the House. It can later be changed even if that came to pass. The Medicare situation IS reality now and cannot be changed without action in the near future. We’re not going to do it because we don’t like a proposed tax plan that may never be passed?
Generation$crewed
August 14th, 2012
11:12 am
Paul
August 14th, 2012
10:54 am
Since I am in the under 55 group I am not sure exactly what needs to be done. But I do feel that a whole lot has to be done and not just switching money around.
I am also more favorable to the person who proclaims the truth and explains that drastic changes are needed instead of the guy claiming govt can take care of it.
With the Ryan plan there would be some type of program to help my generation, with the current lack of a true plan to attack Medicare that is not a sure thing any type of plan will be available for those who will need it in my generation. So what’s best some help for future generations with reduced help for others or no program for future generations so we don’t lose any votes in the present?
Also I have seen others make the argument that Obama is for entitlement reform as you claimed.
Which specific entitlements, how much, when are the cuts he wants to take place?
Or is this something he plans to reveal after the election?
Choosing votes over the country, priceless!
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
August 14th, 2012
11:14 am
the cat
yep….but I have to admit I’d love to take the weiner mobile out for a spin….
toddler G would get a huge kick out of it…
.
.
anyway….if Ryan and the GOP are so durn sure about the VP pick
why is Ryan going to keep his House re-election campain going??
Moderate Line
August 14th, 2012
11:14 am
Fully 74 percent of white seniors said instead that “Medicare should continue as it is today, with the government providing health insurance and paying doctors and hospitals directly for the services they provide to seniors.” Among non-college whites, 63 percent said they preferred the current system, while only 26 percent backed Ryan’s approach.
++++
Here is the problem in politcs. Anyone who purposes a solution is attack. Now, I don’t believe Ryan’s solution is a good one but I have respect for someone who purposes one because you are going to take heat for it no matter what it is. The alternative is to kick the can down the road. Medicare is the primary driver of our deficit. Anytime someone purposes a solution they are attacked by the other side in order to make poltical points.
Erwin's cat
August 14th, 2012
11:14 am
Jay – Not exactly rhetoric out of the GOP platform, now is it?
or out of the Dem’s either now is it?…birds of a feather
Recon 0311 2533
August 14th, 2012
11:14 am
Well enough of viewing how the libs deal with their fears of Paul Ryan with their non-stop whining. I suppose this will continue for quite awhile. I’m out y’all enjoy the day.
Jefferson
August 14th, 2012
11:15 am
Cosby, I suggest YOU have no clue. Biden is better than Romney, who you probably didn’t like anyway, but are stuck with. Ryan has accomplished nothing, his answers were shot down, may as well had tried to repeal the 2nd amendment, the results would be the same. NADA.
Peter
August 14th, 2012
11:15 am
Deficits don’t matter is the GOP mantra…… and they will make things better in America by cutting taxes and spending more on the military ?
Jay
August 14th, 2012
11:16 am
Gordon, that’s nonsense. Of course taxes and Medicare spending are related. If you do not make such major reductions in revenue, you also do not need such major reductions in spending.
You cannot deal solely with one side of the ledger. You have to look at them together.
Mick
August 14th, 2012
11:16 am
jay @ 11:09
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Koch brothers, where so you stand?
Gordon
August 14th, 2012
11:16 am
“Once again, when you’re ready to grow up and have an adult discussion, you let me know, kid.”
JHM rebuts one of my posts with the word “Reject” and then comes up with this ^^^^.
LOL.
Peter
August 14th, 2012
11:17 am
The super rich don’t care if you have insurance, medicare or medicaid…… They are covered no matter what.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
August 14th, 2012
11:17 am
“your an idiot…done!!”
proof that irony is, indeed, dead and buried.
but, for the record, yes. if you portray a President / business man / titan of industry as someone who is being driven around in his car, seat way back and smoking a blunt defending yourself by saying “they do it on MTV” (one can only assume that the “they” in question happens to be black as that is the only thing in common), then, yes, Virginia, you are a racist.
Jefferson
August 14th, 2012
11:17 am
You want to know what to do about Medicare, fund it. Jail the theives that steal from it. Tell the Drs and Hospitals to get real.
nelson
August 14th, 2012
11:17 am
Ryan is the quintesential vicepresidential candidate, young, brilliant, ambitious, politically savy. He is he right man at the right time for the right job. He will talk solutions, show a depth of understaning about the issues and provides an opportunity of a lifetime to steer the course of the U.S. in a new direction of prosperity coming from hard work and sacrifice and not from stimulus dollars. In the unlikely event that the populace wants four more years of failed policies, they will have to look no further than themselves for the cause and effect.
Tom Middleton
August 14th, 2012
11:17 am
I think this election is our flash point, Jay, for it has to break one way or the other. If it breaks toward Romney, it will be continuing the trek started under Reagan toward an inevitable Fourth Reich, this one in America.
I mean, how much longer will it take for Republicans in power to start ignoring the will of “We The People” completely and work full time for themselves. Oh wait, they’re doing that already, aren’t they?
But if it breaks toward President Obama and the Dems, it will be toward more freedom for everyone, more concern for the future and what we know for sure works, and yes, even more love for all of us together, who we’re supposed to be already as envisioned by our Founders.
You’ll never get this out of the Republicans, that’s for damn sure; and when the voters realize it, there will be no choice at all!
Joe Hussein Mama
August 14th, 2012
11:18 am
JKL — “Your takeaway from this: obama donations are way down so they couldn’t afford to pay anymore people than that to show up for the VP’s speech. The party of handouts needs to save up their money for buying actual votes on election day.”
Sorry, Punkin, but Granny already schooled y’all on the reason for the small crowd. Thanks for not reading and for being late to the party, though!
Erwin's cat
August 14th, 2012
11:18 am
Koch brothers, where so you stand?
I’m guessing right next to Soros
Mick
August 14th, 2012
11:19 am
recon
Fear ryan? Nah…he’s small potatoes…
sam
August 14th, 2012
11:19 am
i completely disagree Jay. Palin choice was a disaster right from the get go and it ultimately cost McCain any chance of winning. Ryan will not be a disaster because at least he has some substance and ideas, what will cost Romney the election is himself and his total lack of a soul or backbone. Talk about a wannabee politician who will anything to get elected
Brosephus™
August 14th, 2012
11:19 am
TBG
Bro, do you think this is “Tap Out” from yesterday?
Sounds like a good candidate…
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
August 14th, 2012
11:19 am
Jay
August 14th, 2012
11:09 am
Jay,
…and with those “stand your ground’ laws, they sure aren’t going to turn the other cheek…
Said it before and I’ll say it again…Jesus Christ is the poster boy for Liberalism…
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
August 14th, 2012
11:19 am
Granny – “but I have to admit I’d love to take the weiner mobile out for a spin….”
screw the Weiner Mobile … I want THIS: http://www.fanpop.com/spots/marshmallow-peeps/images/424022/title/peep-mobile-photo
Jefferson
August 14th, 2012
11:20 am
President Reagan is dead and forgotton by everyone but the middled aged and older. Raised a lot of taxes, spent more than we had.
vietnam vet
August 14th, 2012
11:20 am
Questions: 1. Who started two wars without paying for them? 2. Who said deficits don’t matter? 3.Who cut spending for the VA right when the money was needed the most? 4. Who was the Worst President in modern times? Answers: George Bush, Dick Cheney, George Bush, George Bush. Who wants to return to the Good Old Days of 8 years ago? Romney/Ryan and the Right Wingers.
Mick
August 14th, 2012
11:20 am
cat
That would depend on their humanity; I’ll leave the judging to a higher authority…
JamVet
August 14th, 2012
11:20 am
It is a done deal, neocons.
And was told to you earlier this morning.
With this pick, you have lost Florida.
And the election.
Good luck in 2016!
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
August 14th, 2012
11:21 am
Erwins Cat
Hold up there catman, there are feathers on your little kitty lips….
President Obama recently said….
“We are our brothers keeper”
I happen to know who that quote was inspired by…do you?
Steve Atl
August 14th, 2012
11:21 am
Obamacare is a TAX.
Under Ryan Plan…NOTHING changes for those 55 and over…NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
These facts are indisputable.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 14th, 2012
11:21 am
dang. where did that Bojangles free chicken banner go to?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 14th, 2012
11:22 am
NOTHING changes for those 55
But the rest of us are screwed….
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
August 14th, 2012
11:22 am
“These facts are indisputable.”
um. no they’re not.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus-20120814,0,2474070.column
there.
disputed.
Jay
August 14th, 2012
11:23 am
“Jay – ‘Not exactly rhetoric out of the GOP platform, now is it?’
or out of the Dem’s either now is it?…birds of a feather”
Probably true enough, with the notable difference that the Dems don’t make a big public show out of being the Party of Jesus in the first place.
Speaking of which:
“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others.”
Peter
August 14th, 2012
11:23 am
So do the GOP actually care about the poor and sick in America ?
Can a Republican tell us that is so ?
Robert
August 14th, 2012
11:24 am
Yes, it is true. Mr. Romney conceded defeat when he choose Ryan as his running mate in 2012. The GOP can use this opportunity to get rid of all the right wing extremist who have held the GOP hostage for the last 4 years. The good news – the GOP can know recruit moderate GOP candidates and create a strategy to win the White House in 2016.
ken
August 14th, 2012
11:24 am
I see you got your talking points today !! And you like Joe. Wait till the debates. copy
Generation$crewed
August 14th, 2012
11:25 am
USinUK – pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
August 14th, 2012
11:09 am
So you mean all seniors would still have coverage under the Ryan plan. They would even get to choose which plan to participate in?
What an evil hateful man that Ryan is, and he is only giving people 10 years to plan for those changes and cuts in spending. How much time does Obama plan to give for folks to plan before he cuts 700 Billion from Medicare?
Thomas Heyward Jr.
August 14th, 2012
11:25 am
Jay
August 14th, 2012
11:09 am
———————————————
.
There goes Bookman again……………………equating Jesus Christ with Obama again.
.
Statism…………….a terrible religion.
Joe Hussein Mama
August 14th, 2012
11:26 am
Gordon — “JHM rebuts one of my posts with the word “Reject” and then comes up with this ^^^^. LOL.”
I love when cons do this. Let’s go to the tape!
Gordon @ 10:24: “If you don’t like Ryan’s plan for dealing with Medicare, let’s hear your plan.”
JHM @ 10:29: “Slight increase to Medicare tax rates. Eliminate the earnings cap on taxed income and apply Medicare tax to additional earnings types (not just wage income). Slowly ratchet up the retirement age over time. Institute means-testing for benefits.”
Gordon @ 10:32: “Go back to sleep, Granny and JHM. You have no idea what you are talking about.”
JHM @ 10:35: “Your concession and abject surrender are appreciated.”
Gordon @ 10:52: “It would be wonderful if we could “tweak” our way out of the Medicare fiscal problem we have, but we can’t.”
JHM @ 10:55: “Rejected.”
You *started out* by asking for discussion of a specific point; you got it from two people, who you summarily dismissed by telling them to “go back to sleep.” But when *you’re* dismissed like that, you get upset. Double standard, your name is Gordon.
So now that we’re established that you’re both dishonest and untrustworthy, I renew my invitation. If you want some polite, adult discussion of the matter, then man up and let me know.
Brosephus™
August 14th, 2012
11:26 am
If Newtie or Gary Sinise came out & called Mittie “White Jesus”, I am pretty sure that Jay would have a piece on it.
If there was any “White Jesus”, there’s only one who I can think of that would qualify. According to Revelations 1:14-15:
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Change the hair color and give him some sun, and that’s your definition per Revelations.
Just sayin’
mm
August 14th, 2012
11:26 am
So Romney wants to double down on the Bush policies. They worked so well that they invited Bush to be the keynote speaker at the RNC. What’s that you say? They didn’t invite him at all? Hmmm, I guess they don’t want to remind everyone how “well” those policies worked out.
Paul
August 14th, 2012
11:26 am
Generation$crewed
One may say the weak point in Pres Obama’s call for reform is the lack of specifics. Fair point. I will offer, though, that his remarks on entitlement reform have set the boundaries and contrasted his view with his opponent’s view; that is, his opponent has a vision that would separate old-age security programs from government administration while turning the money and administration over to private, for-profit companies. Pres Obama, as I understand it, seeks to work within the existing framework of having such programs as the responsibility and benefit of all Americans, as it now is. So specifics aside, those are the two grand frameworks – do what is necessary within the current system to make it sustainable, or decouple the American people working together thru their elected government from these programs and exposing those using the program to tremendous financial risk while having it administered thru for-profit companies.
It’s just two views of how the system should operate. The specifics serve to indicate how and to whom the impacts would hit.
Gordon
August 14th, 2012
11:27 am
Jay,
I never said they were unrelated. I said the order of magnitude of the numbers is not close. The problem with Medicare is not the part of the budget it cosumes now nearly as much as what it will consume based on current law and demographics. It dwarfs the numbers we are discussing in the current budget.
Furthermore, I said and will say again I don’t agree with Romney’s tax plan. But that shouldn’t keep us from dealing with the much larger issue of Medicare funding in the long term. As you said yourself yesterday, even eliminating the Bush tax cuts on ALL taxpayers does not eliminate the need for MAJOR changes to Medicare. That reality is independent of any tax plan. That doesn’t mean I think we should only look at one side of the ledger.
It is my hope that the Ryan pick will force this issue into the open. It is very important.
Common Sense
August 14th, 2012
11:27 am
“But if it breaks toward President Obama and the Dems, it will be toward more freedom for everyone, more concern for the future and what we know for sure works, and yes, even more love for all of us together, who we’re supposed to be already as envisioned by our Founders.”
This has to be the joke of the day.
More freedom for everyone? Like Boeing relocating to SC?
Brosephus™
August 14th, 2012
11:27 am
Add the fact that the linked person @ 11:26 would be capable of creating Earth, and it’s inhabitants, in less than 7 days.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
August 14th, 2012
11:27 am
“So you mean all seniors would still have coverage under the Ryan plan. They would even get to choose which plan to participate in?”
IF they can afford it. And, given that they’d have to top up Medicare payments, even THAT safety net is not guaranteed.
saywhat?
August 14th, 2012
11:28 am
I’m still waiting to hear from republicans about all of Ryan’s “executive experience” which was deemed so important 4 years ago.
vietnam vet
August 14th, 2012
11:28 am
Jay it’s just not fair. Don’t you know that religion is the ultimate trump card that Conservatives love to play. Bringing WWJD into the conversation might make their heads explode.
Erwin's cat
August 14th, 2012
11:29 am
GG – I believe the differences is Jay’s post regards giving to charity to help the less fortunate…But the left would rather gov’t take that charge and that money
mm
August 14th, 2012
11:30 am
“Under Ryan Plan…NOTHING changes for those 55 and over…NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.”
New campaign slogan for the GOP I guess. The only votes they are going to get are the over 55 white folks. So they are pretty much saying “screw you” to the rest of the electorate.
Peadawg
August 14th, 2012
11:31 am
Jay
August 14th, 2012
11:23 am
That verse is used out of context so much.
Jesus did not prohibit public prayer. He prayed publicly on numerous occasions including before meals (Mark 6:41) and among a crowd prior to raising Lazarus from the grave (John 11:41-42). He also prayed where his followers could see and hear him. As a result they asked him, “Lord, teach us to pray,” (Luke 11:1).
“What Jesus does reject in his Sermon on the Mount is hypocritical prayer. The word hypocrite is derived from the Greek meaning actor. It is literally one who pretends; one who fakes it. This is what Jesus sees among many outwardly religious people. They are pretending to be devoted to God so that they may win the approval of people. Remember, ancient Judea was a culture that highly valued religiosity. Such communities, past and present, put great emphasis on external evidence of religious devotion, and this tends to fuel hypocrisy.”
Joseph
August 14th, 2012
11:32 am
Jay:
Well Jay just like I asked your loyal loons this morning. Where is Biden’s budget proposal?
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
August 14th, 2012
11:33 am
Generation$crewed
August 14th, 2012
11:25 am
USinUK – pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
August 14th, 2012
11:09 am
So you mean all seniors would still have coverage under the Ryan plan. They would even get to choose which plan to participate in?
What an evil hateful man that Ryan is, and he is only giving people 10 years to plan for those changes and cuts in spending. How much time does Obama plan to give for folks to plan before he cuts 700 Billion from Medicare?
no time required MR SILLY PANTS, as those folks don’t lose any benefits
Do the 1% need anymore notice that the savings in Medicare that is being reinvested into Obamacare will not be given to them as a tax cut?
Cuz, Ryan’s Medicare plan ain’t gonna happen.
Gordon
August 14th, 2012
11:33 am
Fair enough, JHM. I rejected your idea because I felt it was so far out of touch with reality that I didn’t bother to refute it here. Rather, I asked you to research Medicare unfunded liabilities, which if you did you would find cannot possibly be solved by the measures you indicated. If you think they can, I would like to know why. The numbers generated by your proposals do not come close to solving the problem. I don’t know how to express it any simpler than that. The most conservative number I have seen regarding Medicare unfunded liabilities is $40T. We can’t pay for the promises we’ve made or even come close, and most Americans are blissfullly unaware of that. I don’t understand why Democrats, who claim to want to protect the poor and elderly, find this acceptable.
Is that adult enough for you?
JKL2
August 14th, 2012
11:33 am
Jay- You cannot deal solely with one side of the ledger. You have to look at them together
Still waiting on your article about all those massive spending cuts the democrats have proposed…
teacher
August 14th, 2012
11:34 am
jay,
why don’t people ever talk about a quick fix to social security, raise the cap on ss tax? currently 106, 800 to adjust for inflation maybe to 500,000. someone made a fix like that in ‘83 Ronald…..
stands for decibels (SfBA)
August 14th, 2012
11:34 am
>>NOTHING changes for those 55
>But the rest of us are screwed….
Not that I think for a moment that even this oftimes FUBAR republic would ever legislate anything as stupid as Ryan’s Medicare-cum-coupon book, but let’s do play pretend for a moment.
Has anyone who blithely says “if you’re over 55, nothing changes!” considered just what kind of intergenerational conflict this would set up? You’d have tens of millions of older Americans still working off a cost-effective single-payer insurance system, and tens of millions of not-quite-so-older Americans trying to make their coupons stretch for a year’s worth of coverage.
What could possibly go wrong? Well, just about everything.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
August 14th, 2012
11:34 am
Erwin’s cat
August 14th, 2012
11:29 am
GG – I believe the differences is Jay’s post regards giving to charity to help the less fortunate…But the left would rather gov’t take that charge and that money
Piffle, spit out those feathers!
St Simons - he-ne-ha
August 14th, 2012
11:35 am
and the “Ayn Rand Does Somalia” plan does another thing.
I found it disgusting when people did it in accounting mtgs.
and its disgusting when these sadistic Republicans trying to
to sell this bag-o-sh*t try to pass the trick
off to the ignorant rubes in their base.
They’re saying they don’t make cuts, or we don’t know what the cuts are.
Because they would pass a law that makes the cuts ‘automatic’ as
a factor of future revenues. So they cut revenues to near-nothing,
and voila! Look “we” didn’t make those cuts, the “system” did.
Kinda of a “what? me? don’t look at me! Timmy did it!” scam.
Carpetbaggin scamming scum is what they are
Crazy Times
August 14th, 2012
11:35 am
Joseph
Biden’s budget proposal is at the same place all other sitting VPs proposals are located.
Quit being the stupid behind and attention seeker that you love to be on this blog.
I’m sure you are smarter than you come across, but to make it evident, show it sometimes.
Joseph
August 14th, 2012
11:35 am
To liberals what exactly will be voting on in November? A change in direction or more of the same?
Tom Middleton
August 14th, 2012
11:37 am
“But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which sees in secret shall reward you openly.” (Mt. 6:6, AKJV)
Joseph
August 14th, 2012
11:37 am
Crazy Times:
Oh I’m big bud. Very big. Especially on idea’s. Reminds me of Paul Ryan. Someone who’s actually worked his tail off for years to no avail because dems refuse to reform entitlements…
Joseph
August 14th, 2012
11:38 am
Why are unions so mad with dems? Wow their rhetoric has certainly changed and their pocketbooks seem closed….
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
August 14th, 2012
11:38 am
“I’m sure you are smarter than you come across, but to make it evident, show it sometimes.”
wow. talk about belief in things not seen.
JamVet
August 14th, 2012
11:38 am
Joseph, more of the same. (Though i won’t be voting for BHO.)
Because moving forward, albeit in fits and spurts, is infinitely better than returning to the full speed in reverse that you neocons foisted on us from 2000 – 2008.
This sucker could go down. ~George W. Bush
Generation$crewed
August 14th, 2012
11:39 am
Paul
August 14th, 2012
11:26 am
“just two views of how the system should operate. The specifics serve to indicate how and to whom the impacts would hit.”
Yet how can we know or even have faith cuts would be made if Obama and his administration refuse to give any specifics. Without specifics it is simply a political talking point and tool.
Either they do not have any specifics to offer or they are withholding them for political purposes.
I don’t know which of those two is more disturbing. I know which offends me more, but not sure which is worse for the country
Crazy Times
August 14th, 2012
11:39 am
“Oh I’m big bud”
A big attention seeker? Yes you are.
Admitting that today is your first step in your maturation process.
Congratulations.
ragnar danneskjold
August 14th, 2012
11:40 am
Dear Welcome @ 11:09, ha, not any more!
JKL2
August 14th, 2012
11:42 am
Jay- Sell your possessions and give to charity
Very much GOP. He didn’t say “sell your possessions then have the government take away all the proceeds with taxes so they may determine winners and losers”.
Thomas Heyward Jr.
August 14th, 2012
11:42 am
Alinsky 7:7: Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; vote democrat, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks Obama’s assistance..receives, and he who seeksObama.. finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what democrat of you, if his dependent asks him for government cheese, will give him a ? Or if he asks for a EBT card, will give him a Republican serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Obama who is in Washington give good things to those who ask him!
stands for decibels (SfBA)
August 14th, 2012
11:42 am
Oh I’m big bud. Very big. Especially on idea’s.
Pluralizing nouns by using an apostrophe? That was Joseph’s idea. Cool, huh?
Paul
August 14th, 2012
11:43 am
Erwin’s cat
” I believe the differences is Jay’s post regards giving to charity to help the less fortunate”
That response comes up a bit. It’s fundamental that many conservatives see charitable assistance as done thru private institutions, while many liberals see those same objectives served thru government programs.
However, in the case Jay cited, the injunctions weren’t about giving to some institution. It was an injunction on how those who chose to follow Him would treat possessions and other. It was a call to a radically different lifestyle and way of thinking.
Doggone/GA
August 14th, 2012
11:43 am
“The people who will pay you for that work are the rich business owners, not the government.”
It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages.
Henry Ford
JamVet
August 14th, 2012
11:44 am
Especially on idea’s.
But never on verifiable facts, supportable data, empirical evidence, peer-reviewed proof, links, citations, quotes, etc.
I’m serious!
Read his last several hundred posts – there will be ZERO of the above in them…
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
August 14th, 2012
11:44 am
Florida just waved bye bye to Cheesy Grits
Game. Set. Match.
Its over.