Under Ryan plan, Romney tax rate would be 1 (as in one) %

“Taxes are for the little people”

Romney-Helmsley-Ryan 2012

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Good Day to you USinUK and Good Job to Britain!

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With Romney/Ryan..we too..can be just like Europe.

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“With Romney/Ryan..we too..can be just like Europe.”

yeppers … you, too can have a double-dip recession.

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Jay, I’m surprised that you didn’t do a blog about Romney asking all of his potential VPs to release “several” years of tax returns. Then Ryan coming out and backtracking saying he only released 2 years just like Romney.

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“Are you saying that there’s a bright future to be had in the burgeoning dressage industry, Dog?”

Well, someone’s got to groom the horses and muck out the stalls!

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Keep Up the Good Fight!
August 13th, 2012
7:58 am

Bazinga!

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OMG, what does all that do to the deficit?

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Romney’s gift to his real base.

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White America won’t care that the wealthy will no longer pay taxes, and that the middle class and poor will be thus required to foot more of the bill. Why? Because Romney/Ryan are against gays. “The hell with our pocketbooks–it’s the guns and the gays we care about!” Go Romney! Go Ryan! Go retirement!

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Recon says:
And the call goes out, Obama, where’s your plan? Expect to hear that question loud, clear and often during the campaign.

It’s right here, has been for a while…….

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there you go again, Granny G …

confooooosing them with the facts.

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Not kicking the can?

Pardon me but …..When does the Ryan budget get “balanced”?

20 some years from now?

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To the rich it’s always about
money and to the poor
pretty much the same.

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I realize that democrats like to lie but this takes the cake Bookman. Word on the street is Obama is from Kenya….

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That’s great. But you simply forget about all the taxes he paid on the dollars he earned to invest. So are you saying every retiree that worked hard, saved money for retirement and is living off the interest, i.e. Not a government dependant, should be taxed at the highest rate?
Or should we just forgo all our 401ks and let the government take care of us.
regardless, Romney paid more in taxes in one year than Obama and Biden combined. So what. All of this is nonsense. Why don’t you go find Obama’s plan for growth and get back to us.

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“Won’t someone please think of the millionaires?!?!?”

You maybe don’t want to know what I think of SOME of them!

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If you took everything that the 1%ers have, I mean everything, all of their assets, their homes, their bank accounts, everything….. there would be enough money to run our government for just a few months. Taxes on the evil 1% are not the problem and never have been. It’s this wild, runaway spending that liberals are so fond of that will ultimately carry the day. No country can survive with spending like this with a growth rate of only 1.5%. Those evil producers are not the enemy, liberals. You are.

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This pick just gives Romney someone else to lie about. He’s spent the entire campaign so far lying about himself and the President. Now he’ll have to lie about Ryan too. If he were honest and came clean about anything the base would have him tarred and feathered. This is gonna be fun.

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” Obama hasn’t had a budget approved since he’s been in office.”

Oh!! THAT explains why all those government offices are closed and our military hasn’t been paid. Glad you explained it.

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” Is that not fairness?”

Fair does not always mean equal

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Nobody on the right between the ages of 40-60 no matter what color can be this stupid, you have worked all your life paid in to SSI, Medicaid and you rather let two rich brinks come in and gut your money you have worked hard for because you hate Obama, conservatives white middle class can not be this stupid, if so God help these people and this country.

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Time for a clean sweep in November.

I agree…of all the House republicans…

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I do not mind paying my taxes, and I do not mind paying more, percentage wise, than people who earn less than I do. I can afford it with virtually no impact on my standard of living. But I do mind paying more, percentage wise, than people who earn more than me from whatever source. That’s the case now, and it looks like Romney and Ryan want to make it even worse.

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k71 – “It’s this wild, runaway spending that liberals are so fond of that will ultimately carry the day.”

I was unaware that the Congress was controlled by “liberals”.

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My apologies to y’all on that post, but sometimes I have to address factually incorrect things. I hope JKL2 gets that post and realize the error of his assumptions/ideas about the flag pin.

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If you took everything that the 1%ers have, I mean everything, all of their assets, their homes, their bank accounts, everything….. there would be enough money to run our government for just a few months.

not even remotely true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_in_the_United_States

By the fourth quarter of 2010, the household net worth had recovered by a growth of 1.3 percent to a total of $56.8 trillion

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So, you believe that there is a budget? Maybe you’re confusing continuing resolutions for a budget.

And you’re confusing a “budget” — just a non-binding plan — with “appropriations” which are actual expenditures.

For example, Bush kept both wars off the “budget”, but money was spent on them anyway. Were you fooled by this?

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“If it was a snake it would’a bit him…..”

Granny G – there are none so blind …

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Seriously, I’m not a fan of either party, but after McCain /Palin and now Romney/Ryan, could the GOP at least pretend like they want to win?

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“So, you believe that there is a budget? Maybe you’re confusing continuing resolutions for a budget.”

Nope, I am not. *I* understand the insignificance of not having a budget BECAUSE there has been no decrease in FUNDING.

And all those “the problem is spending” types should REJOICE there’s been no budget, because that FREEZES discretionary SPENDING.

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Estate taxes are a perfect example of government sticking it’s nose into something in which they have have no business doing. What I own and have accumulated over the years does not belong to any government…. it belongs to me and my family. In most instances, I have already paid taxes on my assets and taxing them again prior to my family gaining control is sort of like what the original Tea Party did in Boston a few years back. Ryan’s plan to eliminate estate taxes is the most fair proposal that he has made in some time. We don’t need tax revision. We need to eliminate the present tax code and start all over…… and it should begin with elimination of estate taxes.

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Well, not that I believe you, but let’s say for argument sake you are right. 1% of $10 million in taxes is $100,000. paid in taxes. Did YOU pay $100,000 in taxes last year? Flat tax or national sales tax is the FAIR tax, where everybody pays.

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For example, Bush kept both wars off the “budget”, but money was spent on them anyway. Were you fooled by this?

Just to bring you up to date, Bush isn’t running again for president. It’s about the current presidents performance in office and its been deficient.

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Doggone, you must not read the blog.

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Recon – “Just to bring you up to date, Bush isn’t running again for president. ”

Freely translated – The previous POTUS was awesome and gets a free pass for not budgeting the wars. The current POTUS sucks, and hasn’t budgeted anything that I approve of.

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Kayaker 71@8:31,

Well you know according to Obama, “you didn’t build that”.

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HoyaLawya – “Can this get any more ridiculous??”

Just watch for the next 3 months.

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Doggone, 8:33,

“it doesn’t exist”……… BWhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

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Freely translated – The previous POTUS was awesome and gets a free pass for not budgeting the wars. The current POTUS sucks, and hasn’t budgeted anything that I approve of.

Recon: THIS ^^^^

If it wasn’t a problem for you 3 years ago, it shouldn’t suddenly be a problem for you now.

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Romney’s tax return has nothing to do with the fact that Medicare as we know it is unsustainable.

Quick test: what percent of income is used to fund Medicare? 10%, 20%, 30%?

Try less than 3%.

It’s sustainable with minor tweaks.

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Of course it’s true if your sole source of income is capital gains. For most Americans this will have little effect. This is just a talking point to stoke the passions of us pleabians that pump our own gas.

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despite your childish sour grapes.

Granny, please enlighten me with the substance and details.

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I have already paid taxes on my assets and taxing them again prior to my family gaining control is sort of like what the original Tea Party did in Boston a few years back.

Please, explain how British taxes on goods set by a government with no Colonial representation = THE GUB’MINT WILL ECONOMICALLY RAPE MY CHILDREN.

I’d really like the flowchart on this alleged thought process.

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” would I have to pay taxes on that risk?”

On the risk? No. On the income? Yes

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You have two rich brinks who refuse to release their taxes, Mitt have made billions off the sweat of the middle class, now wants to gut medicaide, ssi, the money that has been taken out of your checks for years.

If that dont bring the Dem and Indep out in big numbers nothing will”””””

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It’s been asked before: if reducing taxes increases employment and economic output, let’s just cut the tax rate to zero and watch an economic miracle occur.

Looks like the Republicans finally went for it.

Only question is, how’s Romney going to pay for his $130 billion increase in Defense?

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Mediscare/Mediraid have to be reformed and the Ryan Plan is the ONLY one out there that boldly tackles the problem. Why doesn’t anyone get that these entitlements are going to go bust very soon. No, Governor Romney’s hard-earned dollar$ getting confiscated and redistributed to those bogus programs are not going to save them. We need comprehensive reform that does not change a thing for our seniors right now, but makes changes to future generations by shifting Social Insecurity, Mediscare/Mediraid over to the private sector. Costs WILL be low because there will be unlimited competition. Let’s reduce the size and scope of big government and bring it back to what the Founding Fathers intended it to be. Government should just be Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines and the Coast Guard. I’m sick and tired of lefties who refuse to look at the common sense vision as it has been laid out in the Ryan Plan!
Amen,
Bill

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Gordon nailed it.
Balancing this deal is going to take drastic measures from both sides. Let’s get real and quit trying to protect our turf.

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Recon

Start with this…..

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/ccs.pdf

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Is that all you got ? Ryan is a great pick. And he doesn’t need a teleprompter to guide him when he makes a speech.
He wiil be a VP for all of the people and not a select few.

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Jay

August 13th, 2012
8:25 am

Joseph, if this is a lie, then you can surely explain HOW it is a lie.

It’s really pretty simple math:

1. Almost all of Romney’s 2010 income — some $20 million of it — came in the form of capital gains, investments and dividends.

2. Under the Ryan plan, all taxes on capital gains, investments and dividends would be eliminated.

Jay, Has the principle money been taxes already? If so then why are you proposing to PENALIZE a person for investing the money wisely when they were younger? Is it not true that Romney is RETIRED?

Romney is not unlike any other person that is retired or planning on retiring. He made money during his working years and put that money into investments to allow him and his family to be able to live after he retired. Why is it the governments business to put their hands out for the money he, or any of us that did the right thing to take care of ourselves, and want a piece of this money?

This is just another example of the government punishing people for doing the right thing and saving money for retirement while people that take no personal responsibility do not have to pay such a penalty.

Please explain the fairness of this system for not only Romney but for the teacher, police officer or fireman that has taken the personal responsibility to take care of their own retirement?

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Jay,

In all honesty, why should people want Obama in office for another four years? He has run up the deficit $5 trillion dollars in three and a half years, had over 8% unemployment nationwide throughout most of his time in office, pushed weak social programs that have no respect for life (discards all basic morals and religious freedom). More of the same will bankrupt this nation…economically and morally.

Jay, what “positives” do you think will come about if Obama wins a second term…that he couldn’t get done in nearly four years in office? I really don’t understand how people champion Obama with a straight face…his administration seems very extremely inept and corrupt, at best.

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The high point of the weekend news shows was Tim Pawlenty’s deer in headlights look when asked by George about how many years of tax returns he furnished while in the running for VP.

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Bill Orvis White

“We need comprehensive reform that does not change a thing for our seniors right now, but makes changes to future generations by shifting Social Insecurity,”

Why punish the youngsters for the errors of the elders?

It’s the elders who’ve elected and reelected the politicians that caused the current Medicare/SS problems. Therefore it’s the elders who should bear the brunt of the cuts. Put them on vouchers, make them pay an extra $6500 a year for their healthcare. Preserve the program for the younger ones.

Personal responsibility and accountability are the new Republican watchwords, remember?

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Rmoney/Ryan will distract folks w/ the shiney objects: “Look over here….Gay Marriage!!”

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Recon

Something a bit heavier

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Analytical_Perspectives

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Paul

August 13th, 2012
8:46 am
“It’s been asked before: if reducing taxes increases employment and economic output, let’s just cut the tax rate to zero and watch an economic miracle occur.

Looks like the Republicans finally went for it.

Only question is, how’s Romney going to pay for his $130 billion increase in Defense?”
_________________________________________________
Answer- tax cuts! How is Paul Ryan going to cure his hemmorhoids? Tax cuts! Tax cuts fix everything, doncha know!

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“You can keep your doctor”. Lie. “Anyone making less than 250K/yr will not pay any additional taxes, not one thin dime”. Lie. “You can keep your insurance plan”. Lie. “This health care plan will only cost 940B dollars”. Lie. ‘Green energy jobs are the future of our economy”. Lie. “I have done more for Israel’s security than any president ever” Lie. “Oil production is the highest that it has been in over 8 years” Lie. “I have saved the auto industry”. Lie. “The health care bill will not increase the deficit by one dime”. Lie. “Obama care fee is not a tax”. Lie. “The health care package will pay for itself”. Lie. “My administration has created 2.1M jobs”. Lie.

This just scratches the surface. The liar in charge is alive and well.

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Morning, N-GA

“You cannot argue with facts.”

Have you been so long absent that you’ve forgotten everything?!!?

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“The left doesn’t like the notion of expanding the tax base”

Sure we do! We want to know how many JOBS are going to be created by all that extra money “the rich” won’t have to pay in taxes. More people working = expanded tax base

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And now we hear the argument that everyone should pay the same amount rather than according to their ability. Fair does not mean identical. Next, as to the budget, we’ve not been able to get anything past the Senate. So how can you say Obama can’t get anything done when the Republicans, the not so loyal opposition, refuses to let anything pass?

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Paul Ryan is also carrying on with the GOP WAR one WOMEN with his stance on no abortions even in the case of rape or incest.

The women of this great nation will never vote for this jerk.

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kayaker still cannot accept the truth.

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With so many cons on here licking Romney’s feet, you would think they’d be spotless by now.

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Coming up on four pages and No One has even attempted to refute Jay’s points.

Are Republicans that deficient in knowledge of their own Party’s proposals?

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Personal responsibility and accountability are the new Republican watchwords, remember?

That’s only for others to do, not for Republicans. They get a conservative exemption from those requirements.

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With the GOP picking Ryan, if the President is reelected he will be added to Mt Rushmore. This is the choice of the GOP.

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Mitt needs to release those tax returns. I want to see if he was one of those 4000 (that we know of) that had those tax evading swiss accounts.

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Paul Ryan = Sarah Palin.

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Recon

sputter much?

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Obama’s budget plan – asking all Americans to shoulder their fair share….

So the top 20% pay 80% of taxes, while the bottom 1/3 actually receive “credits”, and somewhere near 50% don’t pay any income tax at all….

What’s fair about that? (eerie silence…. …. ….)

To listen to the Pres (and Jay) those folks in the top 20% are lying, cheating, lazy scum bags…..sheesh

Jay – Reducing “credits” is not a tax increase, you are smarter than that……

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How can you elect to office someone who says that government, all government is evil? The Republicans from the Clinton/Bush years said that but spent like crazy and our economy suffered greatly from it. Now a new crop of Republicans show up and want to do the exact opposite. This too will only result in great harm to our economy and the nation. You cannot go from one extreme to the other without damage. This country needs a middle-of-the-road approach to fix the economic problems it has. People want a radical approach and I’ve got one in today’s political climate – let’s COMPROMISE on how to get there.

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K71 – “The liar in charge is alive and well.”

And with his choice of VP, Romney has assured that he will live for another 4 years.

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Jay, I don’t how you could have expected anything else from the RepugNOwecan’ts.They eat, sleep, drink and breathe this stuff.

Unbelievably, though, they manage to hoodwink people into voting against their own best interests. Some can actually be found on this blog.

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Jay Bookman you are wrong. This election is about the “tea party”. Mr. Romney picked the “tea party” (klansmen, skinheads, militia’s, birthers, etc.) when he selected Ryan as his running mate. The “tea party” weapons of choice are hatred, fear and rage/mob mentality against The American People (elderly, minorities, gays & lesbians, Mulims & Jews, etc.). The whole world saw their hatred and fear on display during the 2010 midterm elections and heard their call to battle (take back my country). Mr. Romney is gambling on the future direction and strategy of the GOP if he thinks the American People will embrace the entire GOP right wing extremist platform which is ridiculous. This action tells the American People the GOP has conceded defeat in 2012. Hopefully the GOP will inspire a new generation of moderates who will focus their efforts on winning the White House in 2016..

I hope the GOP takes advantage of this opportunity to get rid of all the right wing extremist

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td, let us know which park you put up your box or tent in for retirement and some of us compassionat libs will drop by and share some of our social security.

ok?

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“I do NOT support a lot of Romney’s tax plan”

Romney HAS a tax plan?

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More than any other thing, this election will be a mandate on self reliance opposed to government dependency. With 1B Americans receiving a government check every month, our food stamp participation at an all time high and welfare as we know it gaining every year, with nearly half of our citizens paying no federal income tax and our deficit at it’s highest ever, we are on a path to self annihilation. We are broke. We owe more than we produce. We have maxed our credit cards and we are wanting to open more. And the only liberal solution is to tax the 1%ers. That’s not much of a plan long term. Treating the symptoms and not the problem. A band aid on a tumor. Ryan is only advocating living within our means, nothing more. What the hell is wrong with that?

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“And it’s really hard to tell them apart even side by side, given the extent of their brown noses.”

Paul Ryan will be the one giving a speech at the Republican Convention, Sarah Palin will be the one sitting on the bench joining other Republican superstars being kept far far away from the podium.

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Jay

August 13th, 2012
9:00 am

As for this:

“Please explain the fairness of this system for not only Romney but for the teacher, police officer or fireman that has taken the personal responsibility to take care of their own retirement?

Sure, I would be glad to do so. Pensions for the teacher, police officer and fireman, as well as 401k withdrawals, are taxed as earned income, not at the currently 15 percent rate for capital gains, and not at the zero percent rate proposed under the Ryan budget.

It is taxed as deferred income because there was no taxes on that portion of the income to begin with to get the advantage of paying the tax at a lower rate when one retires. I am not talking about pensions. I am talking about the extra after tax income, that you paid full income taxes, on while you were working that is now being double taxed because you took responsibility of trying to invest it for your future. I will ask again. What is fair about this double taxation for being responsible?

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Well, aren’t we up and running the attack plan so early in the morning.

Let’ see..we have the rich will only get richer nonsense activated. We have the poor middle class potentially targeted for higher taxes. We have the seniors being targeted for social security disruption with the new jingle, “blowing up social security”, and we have the standard “Mitt has TOO MUCH MONEY to be president campaign theme.

Boy oh boy. Can’t run on the Obama policies and record of the last four years, but character assassination, class warfare, and scaring old people carries the day for you all. Pathetic!

Hmmm…don’t want to balance the budget. Don’t want to reform social security. Don’t want to end high unemployment. Don’t want to reduce trillion dollar annual debt. Don’t want 47 percent of the American population to pay taxes. Don’t want illegal immigration to be challenged. Don’t want Obama’s college records unsealed. Don’t want the tax system to be altered. Don’t want government to be down sized. Don’t want term limits.

All in all, you people are quite comfortable with the status quo. That only equates to satisfaction with a president and legislators who are responsible for the misery of this country and want four more years of the same.

You’ve had your four years of failure and now it is time for us to clean up your irresponsible satisfaction of ruining this country.

With your satisfaction of the status quo, this country doesn’t need foreign enemies when it has it’s own liberal Democrat Party running things.

Scared of November? You bet you are. Jay Bookman wouldn’t be jumping on his blog site so early these past couple of days if you weren’t.

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So, are Republicans ready to stand beside Ryan as he cuts Romney’s taxes to less than one percent and eliminates tax deductions on the middle class and slashes food stamps and healthcare for the poorest and eliminates medicare as we know it and hikes taxes on the poorest by eliminating their personal exemption and standard deduction, etc. Why yes. Yes they are.

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Michael

“So the top 20% pay 80% of taxes, while the bottom 1/3 actually receive “credits”, and somewhere near 50% don’t pay any income tax at all….

What’s fair about that? (eerie silence…. …. ….)”

Two taxpayers

One makes $20 million, one makes $50k

One pays $3 million taxes, one pays $5000.

One taxpayer pays 99 percent of total taxes. One pays an speck of the total.

what’s unfair about that? (eerie silence except for the ‘duhhhhhhh….’)

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td

” Then when you decide to retire the government comes with their hands out and wants their 15% of this money as well, this is fair?”

It’s still income, td.

Or is your point that people who work should pay taxes and people who own resources shouldn’t?

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“And the call goes out, Obama, where’s your plan? Expect to hear that question loud, clear and often during the campaign.”

Obama has been trying to implement his plan for 4 years. While you con voters have had your hands over your eyes and fingers in your ears, your party has blocked every attempt at improving the economy.

America will hold you accountable.

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A plan that would never pass is not a plan.

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More than any other thing, this election will be a mandate on self reliance opposed to government dependency.

Like the rugged, self reliant Johns Creekian featured in the Biz section? The one who runs the public-private partnership at Stone Mtn. that renegotiated their State contract after promising big bucks for taxpayers? The one who has run small businesses into bankruptcy because they can’t compete with the carnival built inside the State park?

Those kind of self-reliant @$$holes? Screw them. They’re out to screw you, why you love it I dunno, some folks are born masochists.

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Under the Bookman Plan, your tax rate would be 1, as in 100%.

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“I was really concerned about North Korea ’s appointment of Kim Jung Un to be the new leader of North Korea — a nuclear power!

Kim Jung Un had NO military experience whatsoever before Daddy made him a four-star general in the military. This is a snot-nose twerp who has never accomplished anything in his life that would even come close to military leadership: he hasn’t even so much as led a Cub Scout troop, coached a sports team or commanded a military platoon. So guess what—next they make him the “beloved leader” of the country. Terrific!

Oh, crap! I’m sorry. I just remembered that we did the same thing here in the USA . We took an arrogant community organizer who has never worn a uniform and made him Commander-in-Chief; a guy who has never had a real job, worked on a budget or led anything more than an ACORN demonstration, and made him the leader of this country.

I’m sorry I brought this up. Never mind.”

Author Unknown

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“It’s a matter of simple math. Any tax plan that purports to hold revenues steady while massively cutting taxes for the rich must make up the lost revenue by raising taxes on people who are not rich.” Ryan calls for cutting taxes on the wealthy and others, but doesn’t explain how to make up the difference.
http://www.salon.com/2012/08/11/what_you_need_to_know_about_ryans_budget/

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Finn McCool (The System isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed)

August 13th, 2012
9:11 am

so you sacrifice that extra vacation every year or buying a new car every other year and have $200 extra dollars taken out of your pay check (after taxes were paid on the money) every week and invest it into the stock market

And it disappears just like it did in 2008.

What you got then?????? NADA.

Cardboard box for you and your dog! Mwuahahahahahaha

Very little of the principle (amount I actually paid in) “disappeared”. I took a loss on paper and was able to do the exact same thing Romney did and carry over those losses to my income tax liabilities. Since then my invested principle (that I did not just yank out of the market) has done very well in the stock market and all the paper money I lost in 2008 has been returned to my accounts. Will I be living in a box in a park when I retire, since I have a few rental properties that are paid for in full. There will be many many millions of people in those boxes before I get one.

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Under the Bookman/Obama plan, the effective tax rate would be “wealth redistribution %”.

If you want your hard earned money placed in the hands of others who have done little to nothing to earn it ……………. then don’t whine later.

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where is Brocephus’s facepalm when you need it …

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Some more on those top 400 filers:

…Besides the six [of the top 400] who paid no federal income tax, the I.R.S. reported that 27 paid from zero to 10 percent of their adjusted gross incomes and another 89 paid between 10 and 15 percent, which is close to the 13.9 percent rate that Mr. Romney disclosed that he paid in 2010. (At the other end of the spectrum, 82 paid 30 to 35 percent. None paid more than 35 percent.) So more than a quarter of the people earning an average of over $200 million in 2009 paid less than 15 percent of their adjusted gross income in taxes.

And the Republican answer to that is that the wealthiest need even bigger tax cuts and the the poor need to pay for it.

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dB – “Stay classy, Scout.”

he’s got achievement envy

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K71 — “This just scratches the surface. The liar in charge is alive and well.”

Did you want a point-by-point refutation, or did you plan to just play hit-and-run again like you usually do?

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Joe, 9:31,

Have at it.

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“Like the rugged, self reliant Johns Creekian featured in the Biz section?”

Or like our bankrupt Republican Governor living in Atlanta featured in last weeks front page?

Our bankrupt Republican governor has made a career living off the government. Even his business depended on a fiercely protected no bid government contract. Our governor is broke and the taxpayer pays for his housing, insurance, cable tv, air conditioning, cell phone, internet connection, and food!

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Jefferson

August 13th, 2012
9:25 am
A plan that would never pass is not a plan.

ah, nope

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Michael — “So the top 20% pay 80% of taxes, while the bottom 1/3 actually receive “credits”, and somewhere near 50% don’t pay any income tax at all….What’s fair about that? (eerie silence…. …. ….)”

Ask the Republicans. The refundable tax credits were THEIR idea; the Democrats simply gave them some bipartisan support.

Isn’t that what y’all wanted? Giving Republican ideas some consideration and then some bipartisan support? Well, you got it.

Refundable tax credits
Public Mandate in health care insurance
Cap and Trade system

And then when the Democrats get on board, y’all act like someone spilled their soup on you.

(eerie silence)

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Danny X-I’m sure Deal will leave office a millionaire.

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Jay

August 13th, 2012
9:27 am

td, I honestly can’t follow the argument that you’re trying to make.

Ok let me see if I can explain it a little differently:

I and many other people (maybe even you), get a pay check for lets say $1000 per week (after all taxes are paid). We take out $200 dollars and invest this money in the stock market or other investments for our retirement. This money has been taxed at 35% already and now the progressives want this money to be taxed again at 15% when I retire and want to use this money. Is this fair considering I paid my taxes on this money already and have taken the responsibility to plan for my retirement. Why is it fair to take 45% of my money for being responsible while the man that does not sacrifice now for later pays nothing?

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td — “You are demogouging (sp) the issue because you know as well as I that paying for the police, fire and up keeping your streets are not part of this discussion because they come from state and local taxes and we are discussing Federal taxes.”

So you say.

Except that interstate highways are maintained with Federal monies. That means 75, 85 and 285.

And cops get *lots* of Federal support, including financial and intel assistance from the Department of Homeland Security

And if you lived in the path of a forest fire out West this summer, I’m sure you wouldn’t really care that the aircraft dumping fire retardant on the flames was FEDERAL.

Smarten up, td. You know better than that.

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Think back on all those folks who announced retirement in 2006, 2007, and 2008.

They got a year or two of confidence in their 40k and then KABOOOM. All gone – and they don’t have 4 years to wait around for their 401K’s to come back!

This is why you don’t dismantle the safety net.

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td……………That kind of rational will get you horse whipped. Keep working, investing…..We’ll come get it all when we need it. Lot’s of folks depending on you.

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td, This money has been taxed at 35% already and now the progressives want this money to be taxed again at 15% when I retire and want to use this money.

But you’re not taxed on the principle, you’re taxed on the capital gains and interest.

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kayaker 71

“I’m not talking about the ones who earned it.”

But it’s still a government check, right?

So your ire is for the country helping people who didn’t earn it? Like the group who lost jobs and homes because other people made risky financial moves? That’s what you’re complaining about?

(ps, you do know, at any time, the country, thru its representatives, could say “retired government employees, E7-E9 and O5 thru to four-star retirements will, effective immediately, be cut in half in order to balance the budget”, right?

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With 1B Americans receiving a government check every month

Im still trying to figure out how !billions Americans receive a check when we have a population of about 350 million.

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“Democrats question Paul Ryans Foreign Policy Experience”….. Don’t make me laugh…Other than South side of Chicago and Kenya, What could Obama find on a map………. The guy was as green as Irish beer on DAY ONE.

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Butch,

They can forgive their own and explain it away. But to allow a Democrat the same forgiveness is impossible.

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Some People are Stupid – “Im still trying to figure out how !billions Americans receive a check when we have a population of about 350 million.”

Don’t you know? When trying to make an argument for your side, it’s always scarier when you increase your factors by 3. That way, the truly simple minded, will wet their pants and automatically fall lock step in with you.

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K71 — “Joe, 9:31, Have at it.”

Fine. Please bear in mind that if you want to disagree, I’ll be looking for your supporting *evidence,* so please oblige me by posting it.

“You can keep your doctor”. Lie.”

Nope. True.

“Anyone making less than 250K/yr will not pay any additional taxes, not one thin dime”. Lie.”

Guess those Bush tax cuts weren’t all they were cracked up to be. (giggling)

“You can keep your insurance plan”. Lie.”

True. Read the ACA.

“This health care plan will only cost 940B dollars”. Lie.”

Shrug. Like government projects ever come in on time and on budget.

“Green energy jobs are the future of our economy”. Lie.”

True. There’s really no new industry on the horizon except green power and biotechnology. And green power at least could put manufacturing jobs back on line.

“I have done more for Israel’s security than any president ever” Lie.”

True. And the Israelis say so, too.

“Oil production is the highest that it has been in over 8 years” Lie.”

I haven’t checked the stats, so I’m going to defer this one to Adam; isn’t he employed in the petroleum industry?

“I have saved the auto industry”. Lie.”

Two automakers that would be bankrupt by now if not for the government’s intervention. Do you really need to be reminded of that?

“The health care bill will not increase the deficit by one dime”. Lie.”

It can’t possibly increase the deficit unless the House permits it to. So is the House voting in support of ACA-driven deficit spending?

“Obama care fee is not a tax”. Lie.”

Nope. And the SCOTUS didn’t say it was, either. Read the decision.

“The health care package will pay for itself”. Lie.”

The jury’s still out on this, but I think it will.

“My administration has created 2.1M jobs”. Lie.”

Read the BLS stats. His job creation record is better than President Bush’s at this point in both their Administrations.

Your move.

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That particular phrase “snot nose twerp” referred to Un.

well effing duh, Scout. And then you turn around–oh, I’m sorry, “Pussified Author Unknown” turns around–and says “ha ha, Obama is just like this North Korean despot!”

Your “Author Unknown” is a clueless, unpatriotic jerk.

And I think only marginally more of someone who would quote this right wing garbage here.

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I look forward to the follow up blog on how much Obamacare slashes Medicare. I aslo look forward to your blog on leadership and its effect on not having a budget passed for 4 years. Leadership is not “his fault” “their fault”.

Remember Eisenhower “I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable”.

This great country is now on year 12 with no leadership.

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Jay,

why is it that libs only use % figures when they wish to argue against republicans but use actual numbers when talking about their own plan ?

In other words what is the actual amount of money Romney would have given to the government if his rate was 1%, which I seriously doubt.

is it anywhere near the amount that the bottom 50% fail to pay ? where does that figure fall in comparison to a typical middle class families tax burden ?, in real dollars ?

simply asked

if Romney paid 1% how much more would it be, in actual dollars, than the rest of us ?

I suggest that you fail to use real numbers because it would be hard to make your point when you say that he paid $400,000 in taxes while the avg tax bill for the rest of us is around $1500.00.

bottom line is that even if it was 1% he paid about 200 times more than the avg middle class tax payer.

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Taking 100% of the INCOME from those making over $250,000 would not help THIS YEAR’s deficit. I would agree to a top rate of 39.5 like the Clinton years, but this little bit of cash won’t help unless we get a budget and cut somewhere. And Obama knows it. If the GOP offered that today, he would wet his pants. He’s knows that won’t touch it. It’s all lip service to divide. A top rate of 75% would not help if we keep on spending.

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Eventually, the 30% poor-est could just pay their taxes directly to
the Patrons, who would pay no tax at all, like Rome did 2000 yrs ago.
Quite the aspiration, cons, to go 2 millinea backwards.

I’m tellin you, since I’ve slowed down the accounting, i can think of stuff.
If the Democrats made a commercial detailing this ‘plan’ and what it
would do to the working class (the slavery class, in this scenario), and
at the end have Obama shout “I AM SPARTACUS!”

we’d be rid of Them forever. They’d need witness protection.

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hey mama how much should the mitster pay to protect his way of life and his home in la jolla with the car elevator?

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td

Yes, that is the bus out front. As usual, time for you to be taken to school.

Try learning something this time

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Mama,

The percentage and actual argument doesn’t work and you know it. So do all of us then pay exactly what the least among us pay or the most? There’s a wonderful parable by Jesus which describes a similar case about tithing so I think that applies here as well. Give it some thought.

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zeke — “hey mama how much should the mitster pay to protect his way of life and his home in la jolla with the car elevator?”

Don’t know. How much has he got?

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For educational purposes only: Capital Gains tax DOES NOT tax earnings upon which taxes have already been paid. If you have $100k of taxed earnings and reinvest that $100k into equities or land or some asset, you are only taxed on PROFITS from that reinvestment! You are not being taxed on the $100k again.

So stop saying that (STHU). It makes you look (fill-in-the-blank).

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SIX pages and no one has attempted to refute Jay’s point.

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williebkind — “Wow, listen to the wealth envy.”

Still not hearing it. You got those big, dried plugs of earwax in there again? A box of Q-Tips and a bottle of rubbing alcohol couldn’t cost more than five bucks, and it’ll clear that problem right up.

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Like Paul Ryan or not, you still have to give him credit for actually putting a plan on paper that eventually ACTUALLY (on paper using numbers that actually mean something) balances the budget. ANY business owner and ANY person trained in how to handle money knows that ESPECIALLY IN HARDER TIMES, having and staying on a budget is critical. So Paul Ryan puts out this plan. Ok, so maybe it is not the perfect plan. Fine. We are open to see alternatives. Obama has tried, but it is such a ridiculous budget he can’t even get his own Democrats to take his “budget” seriously much less get a consensus. The Democratically-controlled Senate not only won’t approve the budgets submitted by the House, but they can’t even provide an alternative or modify Ryan’s plan. I’m hearing a LOT of complaining about the cuts that Ryan’s plan makes. What are the alternatives that still lead eventually to a balanced budget? I hear altnatives, but NONE that still lead to eventual economic stability.

The reality is that many (not all) of the people (half of Americans) paying 0% of the income taxes are going to have to pay some taxes. Balancing the budget IS IMPOSSIBLE using only the rich’s money, ladies and gentlemen. The faster we recognize that truth the easier it will be and the less we will have to pay to dig ourselves out of this mess.

I don’t LOVE Ryan’s plan, but it is a pretty solid first step. If you can’t accept it, I respect that position so long as it is supported by another suggestion that ACTUALLY eventually balances the budget and provides some economic stability.

Who has one?

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If you took the AGI’s of those that filed individual returns in 2009 with AGI’s over 200k per year and summed them up, it comes to about $1,956,347,294,000. I’d say that would indeed be more than enough to cover the deficit.

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joe hussein, the mitster is too smart to diss anyone. he’ll leave that to other folks.

Mitt Romney has never served in the military.

• Before joining college, Romney had received a deferment from the draft as a Mormon ‘minister of religion’ for the duration of his missionary work in France, which lasted two and a half years. At the time, there was an agreement of sorts between the church and the Selective Service allowing exemptions from the draft for missionaries. Before and after his missionary deferment, Romney also received nearly three years of deferments for his academic studies.

• In April 1965, Romney registered with the Selective Service but was not considered readily available for military service until December 1970. When he became eligible for military service in 1970, he drew a high number in the annual draft lottery and at that time no one drawing higher than 195 was drafted.

to me that is character issue and then for him to be all tough on iran is a joke in many ways….granted there are many chickenhawks in politics….shows you they did not put country first

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SIX pages and no one has attempted to refute Jay’s point.

Wouldn’t it be amusing if they at least tried instead of rolling over and whining from the very start.

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“I suggest that you fail to use real numbers because it would be hard to make your point when you say that he paid $400,000 in taxes while the avg tax bill for the rest of us is around $1500.00.”

OFFS!!!

and this is why a flat tax will never work – despite the fact that it’s the fairest option.

Because you’ll ALWAYS have jacka$$es like this who will whine and b1tch and moan and say “but they’re paying forty thousand doooooolllllaaaaaarrrrrssss when some people are only paying forty … that’s not faaaaiiiiirrrrrrr …

if a multi-millionaire is only paying 1% of his income while the rest of us schmoes are paying 30%, then, yes, you numpty, I do have a problem with it! why??? because it’s the MIDDLE EFFING CLASS that are the “job creators” – not the multi-millionaires.

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Give the Ryan plan some credit….under this plan Mitt will be paying more taxes then he’s paying now.

FINALLY! A valid argument in support of the Romney Ryan plan.

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SIX pages and no one has attempted to refute Jay’s point.

You can have another 15 or 20 pages and not a single person will be able to put forth a single piece of evidence to contradict what is now on display for all to see:

The ruling class, led by the GOP is about vicious class warfare waged against the lower orders from the top, a huge redistribution of wealth upwards.

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Why Mitt Romney is Unlikable

A lot is being said in the media about Mitt Romney not being “likable” or that he doesn’t “relate well” to people. Frankly, we struggled to understand why. So after much research, we have come up with a Top Ten List to explain this “unlikability.”

Top Ten Reasons To Dislike Mitt Romney:

1. Drop-dead, collar-ad handsome with gracious, statesmanlike aura. Looks like every central casting’s #1 choice for Commander-in-Chief.

2. Been married to ONE woman his entire life, and has been faithful to her, including through her bouts with breast cancer and MS.

3. No scandals or skeletons in his closet. (How boring is that?)

4. Can’t speak in a fake, southern, “black preacher voice” when necessary.

5. Highly intelligent. Graduated cum laude from both Harvard Law School and Harvard Business School… and by the way, his academic records are NOT sealed.

6. Doesn’t smoke or drink alcohol, and has never done drugs, not even in the counter-culture age when he went to college. Too square for today’s America?

7. Represents an America of “yesterday”, where people believed in God, went to Church, didn’t screw around, worked hard, and became a SUCCESS!

8. Has a family of five great sons… and none of them have police records or are in drug rehab. But of course, they were raised by a stay-at-home mom, and that “choice” deserves America’s scorn.

9. Oh yes… he’s a MORMON. We need to be very afraid of that very strange religion that teaches its members to be clean-living, patriotic, fiscally conservative, charitable, self-reliant, and honest.

10. And one more point… pundits say because of his wealth, he can’t relate to ordinary Americans. I guess that’s because he made that money HIMSELF… as opposed to marrying it or inheriting it from Dad. Apparently, he didn’t understand that actually working at a job and earning your own money made you not relatable to Americans.

Personal Information:

His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney
He was Born: March 12, 1947 and is 65 years old.

His Father: George W. Romney, former Governor of the State of Michigan

He was raised in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan.

He is married to Ann Romney since 1969; they have five children.
Education:
B.A. from Brigham Young University,
J.D. and M.B.A. from Harvard University
Religion:
Mormon – The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints

Working Background:

After high school, he spent 30 months in France as a Mormon missionary.

After going to both Harvard Business School and Harvard Law School simultaneously,
he passed the Michigan bar exam, but never worked as an attorney.

In 1984, he co-founded Bain Capital a private equity
investment firm, one of the largest such firms in the
United States.

In 1994, he ran for Senator of Massachusetts and lost
to Ted Kennedy.

He was President and CEO of the 2002 Winter Olympic Games.

In 2002, he was elected Governor of the State of
Massachusetts where he eliminated a 1.5 billion deficit.
Some Interesting Facts about Romney:

Bain Capital, starting with one small office supply store
in Massachusetts, turned it into Staples; now over
2,000 stores employing 90,000 people.

Bain Capital also worked to perform the same kinds
of business miracles again and again, with companies
like Domino’s, Sealy, Brookstone, Weather Channel,
Burger King, Warner Music Group, Dollarama,
Home Depot Supply and many others.

He was an unpaid volunteer campaign worker for
his dad’s gubernatorial campaign 1 year.

He was an unpaid intern in his dad’s governor’s
office for eight years.

He was an unpaid Bishop and State President of
his church for ten years.

He was an unpaid President of the Salt Lake
Olympic Committee for three years.

He took no salary and was the unpaid Governor of
Massachusetts for four years.

He gave his entire inheritance from his father to charity.

Mitt Romney is one of the wealthiest self-made men
in our country but has given more back to its citizens
in terms of money, service and time than most men.

And in 2011 Mitt Romney gave over $4 million to charity,
almost 19% of his income. Just for comparison purposes,
Obama gave 1% and Joe Biden gave $300 or .0013%.
Mitt Romney is Trustworthy:

He will show us his birth certificate.

He will show us his high school and college transcripts.

He will show us his social security card.

He will show us his law degree.

He will show us his draft notice.

He will show us his medical records.

He will show us his income tax records.

He will show us he has nothing to hide.

Mitt Romney’s background, experience and
trustworthiness show him to be a great leader and
an excellent citizen for President of the United States.
With a resume like this who would ever hire him?

Mitt Romney Is a lot more likeable than the socialist-liberal presently
masquerading as president.

You may think that Romney may not be the best representative the Republicans could have selected. At least I know what religion he is, and that he won’t desecrate the flag, bow down to foreign powers, or practice fiscal irresponsibility.

I know he has the ability to turn around this financial debacle that the current regime has gotten us into. We won’t like all the things necessary to recover from this debt, but someone with Romney’s background and resume says he can do it.

But, on the minus side, he never was a “Community Organizer,” never took drugs or smoked pot, never got drunk, did not associate with communists or terrorists, nor did he attend a church whose pastor called for God to damn the US. Guess he doesn’t fit well with the Hollywood crowd or the liberal media.

GOD BLESS AMERICA! IN GOD WE TRUST… Not bellowing Politicians.

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“I do not have wealth envy at all.”

But you do start with the believe that everything is the government’s at the start, and that when you allow someone to keep what they have earned is giving them something.

And that’s just nonsense.

You are not giving anything.

What you are saying is that we need to take more from those that have so much more than others to benefit the poorest and the soon to be poorest.

That’s a sad principle to live by.

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Jay:

Honestly jay just because you and Axelrod say it don’t mean its true. I realize libs dwell in the land of make believe but the lying has got to stop. Do you people realize how silly you look to the average voter?

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Bonehead, your adulatory diatribe on Romney just made me throw up a little bit in my mouth.

You didn’t mention the fact that his five super handsome sons never joined the military, either.

And Romney is handsome? His head as actually way too large for his body and he looks freakish to me.

OH, and the racist “4. Can’t speak in a fake, southern, “black preacher voice” when necessary.” comment was so cute, too.

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D. Boag — “Balancing the budget IS IMPOSSIBLE using only the rich’s money, ladies and gentlemen.”

And so Ryan’s budget takes even less of it.

I can’t believe the GOP is serious about deficit reduction when every plan they offer contains tax CUTS instead of tax *increases.* We need BOTH spending cuts AND revenue increases to tame the annual *and* long-term deficit, yet every time the GOP proposes a budget, boom, there’s more tax cuts on the table.

Would you run your family like that? “Wow, honey, we’re really in a bind this month with all the medical costs little Bobby has been running up. Guess you’ll have to quit your job.”

Please.

We know for a fact that tax cuts on upper-income individuals DO NOT stimulate job creation, so the GOP needs to stop pushing that line. I am fine with incenting ACTUAL job creation, but not the mere accumulation of personal wealth.

Want a tax cut? Fine. Create a job, put an American worker in there and keep him or her on the job for at least a year. Then I’ll be THRILLED to give you a tax cut. The more jobs you create and the more Americans you can put to work, then the more tax breaks I’d give you. But I’m done with the notion of cutting taxes on rich folks based on the *promise* that oh just MAYBE they might create some jobs later.

Screw that. Return the tax rates to where they were under Clinton. Develop tasty tax breaks for businesses that hire and RETAIN American workers. If the wealthy want some of those tax breaks for themselves, then they can start some businesses. Hire some unemployed people and open a sandwich shop or a seamstress business. PUT SOME PEOPLE TO WORK or else kiss your tax cuts goodbye.

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Romney has his own plan, considering most of the plan is to be determined later, its not much of a plan

mwuahahahahahahahahahaha

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Also forgot to mention how many Vietnam war deferments Romney took himself….

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Paul – “Not even a “Thanks for the information and I’ll use it to reconsider my view of things”?”

I would imagine that a response would be something like this. ” Unfortunately, I have a job and can’t hang on everything that Bookman writes. Unlike the libs who sit here all day waiting for their government checks.”

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Zeke — “to me that is character issue and then for him to be all tough on iran is a joke in many ways….”

Yeah, I have to wonder what military he wants to send against Iran. Our guys are tired, stressed out and beat to hell. We need to recuperate and re-arm before we go picking another fight.

“granted there are many chickenhawks in politics….shows you they did not put country first”

Agree. There have always been lawmakers on both sides that I didn’t agree with, but who I respected for their service and their cool heads when it came to using military force. On the right, I always liked Chuck Hagel a lot, and on the left, I always though Bob Kerrey (Navy Cross recipient) was a good guy.

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but but but…….wealth envy.
But but but……….. job creators
But but but………… LIBRULS

Other than that has a single right wing fanatic had anything to say much less anything truthful? If so please point it out, otherwise I’m going back to playing GTA San Andreas…….

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It’s pretty bad when the right only has a silly Republican chain email like the one BoneHead reposted at 10:10 to use to back up their candidate.

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Finn

Seriously, that’s not (IMHO) a good place to go. That was normal for the times. People doing any charitable kind of work – be it LDS missions or Peace Corps or Baptist or whatever – got deferments. Anyone in school got deferments, just like Pres Clinton. It was just the nature of the system at the time. It was designed that way so the middle and upper classes wouldn’t pull their political support. My only gripe would be those who took deferments who now act like superchickenhawks, and really, Romney isn’t there (but if he doesn’t ditch that foreign policy advisory team he may go over to the dark side).

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Unlike the libs who sit here all day waiting for their government checks.

Man I wish I could get one of them Gov’t checks. but My corporation isn’t big enough to be subsidized by the Gov’t like GE and them…………

how you been Butch? Ain’t seen you in a while.

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at least bonehead has the appropriate moniker

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Our host failed to note that the current occupant of the oval office has currently slashed $716 billion from Medicare – put if your real intention is to push Granny under the bus that makes good sense.

The only real question is not whether Medicare spending will be diminished – Obama has already done that – but whether seniors will obtain medical services at any price. The ObamaCare plan ensures providers will cease to provide, due to the lack of compensation. (The Obamaniacs will not be able to pass a law compelling doctors to provide services due to the 13th Amendment.) The Ryan plan ensures seniors will be able to purchase coverage, but realistically the Federal subsidy will not cover the entire cost. Your preference depends on whether you want to live in the real world. One hard law of economics is “water finds its own level.”

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Jay:

I’m sure your talking pints are coming directly from Axelrod. Will you please read Ryan’s plan and show me where it says people like Mitt Romney will only pay a million or so in taxes! Stop lying and state facts Bookman!

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Our host betrays a bias against capital formation. A tax “break” growth of investment capital is available to all – as that capital growth is the lifeblood of economic growth, the leftist desire to diminish economic growth has always puzzled me. Suppose it is harder to micromanage the lives of others with a flourishing private economy.

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A wise man told me once that most mistakes or bad outcomes are the results of not asking enough questions. I hope the American people do in BOTH parties.

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Sorry, Ragnar, but I need to correct your right wing lies:

“The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office found last month that the Medicare provisions in the health care law would save $700 billion over a decade and extend the life of Medicare.

The cuts don’t target beneficiaries — they come largely in the form of reduced payments to hospitals, discounts on Medicaid prescription drugs, and pay cuts to private insurers under Medicare Advantage. The hospital and drug industries endorsed the law despite the cuts.

The Ryan plan, by contrast, would transform Medicare into a structure that rolls back the coverage guarantee for the elderly. In 10 years, the program would be replaced with a subsidy that beneficiaries can use to purchase insurance from a menu of private plans and a government option. CBO projects that in some cases, the subsidy won’t be sufficient to cover seniors’ medical expenses.”

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Joseph

in….. hole….

stop….. digging………

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Heard at a Romney press gaggle —

Reporter — Governor Romney, President Obama says that you don’t care about the poor. Could you tell us how the poor got that way, sir?

Romney — I have no idea. I can only assume that they spent their starting capital instead of investing it.

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Ragnar, Paul Ryan will have to wait for the flowers and cheers the people in Florida are waiting to give him, Romney decided to send Ryan to Iowa instead of campaigning there with him in Florida.

Ryan I am sure will be treated like a Medicare liberator in Florida. There is no way Romney would give up must win Florida by choosing Ryan, that would be stupid.

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“Ryan I am sure will be treated like a Medicare liberator in Florida.”

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Stop the hysterics Jay, I realize that the purpose of this blog is to get your minions going nuts…mission accomplished…but the entire tax system needs to be reformed for everyone and that is what Ryan is trying to do..

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Jay

August 13th, 2012
9:52 am

Damn Jay, I used the $1000 per week as an easy analogy for you to understand since you said you did not understand my point.

You did not read the point I made about AFTER TAX investments. Some people max out the tax deferred amount on their 401k contributions and have already paid taxes on that money or put in a Roth IRA. You risk the principle by investing the money and then the government wants to tax risk instead of rewarding said risk.

Again this money is being taxed 2 times.

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Adam, 10:34,

It ain’t no fantasy, my friend. Far from it. Those jobs numbers are a wash. Those being hired are offset by those who quit looking. That’s why we are still at 8.3%. Duh.

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Butch Cassidy (I)

August 13th, 2012
10:31 am

K71 – “Maybe Bozo could get Spreading Bull to do a rain dance in Illinois or Arkansas. Might help the farmers.”

Says the poster who cries about checks going to 1 billion Americans in a country comprised of 350 million.
++++++++++++++++++++++

Well when you include all the corporate welfare and bailouts that end up going to foreign investors while Americans lose their homes and businesses he may actually be right lol.

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kayaker 71

August 13th, 2012
10:36 am

Adam, 10:34,

It ain’t no fantasy, my friend. Far from it. Those jobs numbers are a wash. Those being hired are offset by those who quit looking. That’s why we are still at 8.3%. Duh.
+++++++++++++++++++++++

I love that Republican catch phrase lie: those who quit looking. It ranks right up there with those mythical ‘job creators.”

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Under Obama, my situation has become worse….

1) Unemployment is still over 8%.
2) Housing market is tough…have lost 15% of the value of my house.
3) Our debt is through the roof…$16 Trillion and growing
4) Gas prices are way up again…
5) My taxes will be going up as well.

I am sure a lot of people are in the same situation…it is time to get someone in the White House who has actually run a P&L and has some financial success.

Hope and Change is not working…Romney/Ryan in 2012.

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Get Real — “…but the entire tax system needs to be reformed for everyone and that is what Ryan is trying to do..”

Except in this case, Ryan’s plan increases the tax burden on those who are *least able* to absorb it. He wrongly presumes that further concentrating wealth in the hands of the few will somehow improve the economy for all.

What is needed is increased demand and increased consumer spending, and you won’t accomplish that by taking money away from those who already don’t have much.

Ryan’s plan ‘reforms’ the tax system the same way an accident out on 285 will ‘reform’ your car.

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USinUK – pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

More hysterics and BS…you prove my point

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‘Again this money is being taxed 2 times.’

No, it isn’t. The original principal is not taxed at all. The profit is that only thing that is taxed and if the investment is held for more than a year.

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2) Housing market is tough…have lost 15% of the value of my house.

The value on your house didn’t drop until AFTER Obama took office? After?

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Joseph

“Actually no. I’m waiting for you fruits to tell me why its true….”

Still digging?

Why it’s true?

Simple.

Read Jay’s post. It’s laid out there.

Back to you: how is it inaccurate?

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The failure of Obamanomics….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoNQ2wkhAjg&feature=player_embedded#!

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Steve Atl – “it is time to get someone in the White House who has actually run a P&L and has some financial success.”

That would be great if the United States Government was a “for profit” enterprise. Unfortunately, the government was never intended to turn a profit. Besides, MItts experience has been in Venture Capital, what states would you like him to bankrupt and sell off first?

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“Except in this case, Ryan’s plan increases the tax burden on those who are *least able* to absorb it. He wrongly presumes that further concentrating wealth in the hands of the few will somehow improve the economy for all.”

Wrong.

Ryan’s plan grows the economy, which creates greater opportunities for those that need it the most.

If Obama’s plan was going to create greater opportunity for those that need it the most, it would have happened already.

It isn’t.

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Joseph – 10:42 – and who is the Center for Freedom and Prosperity???

The Center for Freedom and Prosperity (CF&P) is a non-profit organization created to lobby lawmakers in favor of market liberalization.

oh, yeah. they’re unbiased.

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Get Real — “Is that what you heard on MSNBC??”

No, it’s factual. And I invite you to refute it, if you can.

“More hyperbole….”

That you’re not equipped to refute, no doubt. Those grapes sour, are they?

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Joseph, Ryan’s plan says capital gains should be 0%. Almost all Romney’s income in 2010 was from capital gains.

Surely, you can do this math…

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Oops!

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Steve Atl — “I am sure there are more…”

And the misinformation continues.

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It takes capital to create a capital gain. The capital was taxed when earned. If you own a home and have a mortgage, you make payments all along and then you sell. The payments were made with AFTER TAX dollars, hence you payed taxes on those dollars. If you then sell and are fortunate enough to have made a sound investment with AFTER TAX dollars and realize a CAPITAL GAIN, why should you be penalized for a wise investment with YOUR after tax dollars?

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Ryan’s plan grows the economy, which creates greater opportunities for those that need it the most.

pure speculation. By the way, I thought Government couldn’t run the economy?

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” realize a CAPITAL GAIN, why should you be penalized for a wise investment with YOUR after tax dollars?”

Because you are only taxed on the GAIN, not on the total made.

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Doom — “They are net negative in that they not only don’t pay in but they receive much more from the govt. They are taking- not giving. And the top 20% is footing their share of the bill by a very disproportionate share. Just some more BS from the left that has to be dispelled.”

You’re referring to the refundable tax credits that were a Republican idea, right?

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“Ryan’s plan grows the economy, which creates greater opportunities for those that need it the most.”

WHAT a load of bollocks.

you want to see what will happen to the economy under Ryan’s plan???

look at the current double-dip recession the UK is currently experiencing.

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Joseph

You STILL haven’t said why it’s a lie.

You’ve asserted it, but you haven’t offered any supporting reasons.

Your tactic is to say ‘prove a negative’ which is, of course, nigh on impossible to do. That tactic is a dodge used when one cannot support one’s assertion.

So let’s break it down.

“It’s not certain exactly how low Romney’s tax bill would go,”

How is this a lie?

“but his income from other sources amounts to about $1 million”

How is this a lie?

“, and Ryan’s plan would set a new top rate of 25 percent.”

How is this a lie?

“Romney’s total tax bill would have dropped from the $3 million that he paid to a few hundred thousand dollars if Ryan’s plan had been in effect.”

How is this a lie?

“Ryan also proposes eliminating the estate tax, which would benefit Romney’s heirs by tens of millions of dollars.”

How is this a lie?

There, all broken down by elements so you can show, one at a time, how they are lies.

Back to you, Joseph.

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“while raising them on the lowest-earning 30 percent of Americans.” More of the staple dishonesty from the kook left. The bottom 30% of American taxpayers don’t even pay federal taxes outside of FICA.

No, Thulsa, what they are talking about is the lowest 30% who DO pay taxes.

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It’s interesting that the cons on this blog seem to be completely ignorant of capital gains, how they are currently taxed and how Ryan’s plan would affect…

One might ask…why don’t they know these things?

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Get Real — “Joe Hussein Mama blah blah blah”

I accept your gracious concession. (laughing)

“you must be one of the writers for all the ads that are coming from the Democratic Super PACs”

No. Insert quarter, try again.

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“5) George Bush who did not sound the alarm loud enough…only tried 3 times.”

The only alarm George Bush will set off is the one that will blast if he comes within 5 miles of the Tampa arena later this month. I hear Republicans are making him wear an ankle bracelet.

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No, Thulsa, what they are talking about is the lowest 30% who DO pay taxes.

Thats a complicated concept and requires a certain amount of reading comprehension.

I’m afraid she doesn’t have it.

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Every bit of the arguing and division expressed here is a result of a tax code our politicians have bought favors with, bought votes with, played social engineer with, and attempted to pick winners and loosers with. And look at what it’s done to all of us. Look at the division it’s caused in this country.

Do you think maybe it’s time to stop playing this game?

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Lord Help Us

I had a link to Ryan’s plan. Would you mind pinpointing that for me where he wants Cap gains at 0.

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” If you slash government revenue from those most able to pay…”
That is all I need to know about Bookman to understand all future commentary.

And another statement that struck me as telling:

“Because taxes are a necessary evil. They finance the clean water that comes into your home, the collection of garbage outside your home…”

I don’t know or care where Bookamn lives, but where I live I write a monthly check for my water and garbage collection. It is not a tax but is instead private enterprise and it is both efficient and cost effective.

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Pass the Cheesy Grits Please:

I guess that’s liberal logic. If one of your idols say something it must be true. No actually the burden of proof is on you loons. I gave a link to Ryan’s plan. Still no takers to show me where he wants Cap Gains to be eliminated….

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RB: Do you think maybe it’s time to stop playing this game?

Yes, but if you’re going to pretend that most people have the exact same idea for how to fix it and it’s just the far fringes who are fighting, you would be wrong. There’s a reason things are divisive. It’s not the far right vs. the far left with the middle going “but here is a common sense plan for fixing the tax code.” It really is a mostly split-down-the-middle stark difference in tax policy. There are only two plans out there with a huge amount of support: Ryan and Romney’s idea – which is to cut taxes and raise taxes and cut deductions in such a way that mostly the top benefits (but they call it “broadening the base” and “simplifying the tax code” to make it easier to get rammed down people’s throats), or the other plan which is to basically leave taxes where they are for people under 250k, and raise taxes on the dollars made after 250k.

Putting criticisms of both aside, those are the major plans. The fringe elements are the ones that want things like a consumption tax or flat tax.

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Obama is basically a elitist Leninists with contempt for traditional America. He displays disrespect for
The sanctity for the office he holds.Any guy who on video as proof who said his father served in WW 2 and his father was only 5…..has some real issues.

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Hey, Bookman…I hear your hero is gonna dump the chump Joe Biden and name broom hilda Hillary Clinton as his new running mate,….says it will excite the party and set up Hillary for 2016, at the unpaid for convention.
Bookman….look up Joe’s schedule at WH….nothing on the list for future…us inquiring minds want to know….WHERE’S JOE BIDEN!!!!!!!

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Some Interesting Facts about Romney:

I get the feeling if I Google this, I’m going to land in an online Southern Baptist Conference “Voter’s Guide.”

Peoples personal pain and pulling the lever is another.

I bet you used to put a lot of stock in the notion of a “Bradley Effect” last time around. How’d that work out for you?

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Joseph

“I gave a link to Ryan’s plan. Still no takers to show me where he wants Cap Gains to be eliminated….”

From Business Week: “Yet Ryan, 42, goes further than Romney, who would cut individual tax rates by 20 percent, drop the corporate tax rate to 25 percent and eliminate the estate tax and alternative minimum tax. In his 2010 “Roadmap for America’s Future,” Ryan proposed eliminating taxes on corporate income, estates, dividends, interest and capital gains. ”

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-08-13/ryan-farther-reaching-than-romney-on-taxes-without-detail

Now, about those lies in that 10:54… you’re working on that, right?

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RB, 10:58,

We should be able to fill our our tax return on a 3 X 5 card and submit it in 10 minutes. Congress could have changed or “revised” our tax code a hundred times in the last several years but they have chosen not to do this. No more tax attorneys, no more CPAs doing your taxes. Just a simple, easy to understand return that is fair to all. Our present tax code is 13,458 pages long and you can order it from the Government Printing Office for the mere price of $1153.00, plus postage.

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Kayaker 71

Are you campaigning for a job in the Obama Administration?

“Maybe Bozo could get Spreading Bull to do a rain dance in Illinois or Arkansas. Might help the farmers.”

You spread bull for free now.

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‘I’m not about to let you loons lie and use deceit… ‘

What? you got a patent on that tactic?

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Paul:

Again show me in Ryan’s plan where it says he wants to eliminate Capitol gains taxes. You simply cannot. hence its a lie… i could care less what someone on the left write’s. If proof is in the bill. Where is it?

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The TSPOST failed because we the people do not trust government at any level. On the other hand the liberals can not exist without government paying their way.

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kayaker 71

“We should be able to fill our our tax return on a 3 X 5 card and submit it in 10 minutes. ”

So small business owners would, what, not have any business deductions in computing their income?

No more exemptions for kids, over-65 or disabled?

No more tax-free military disability income?

No more deductions for retirement savings?

No more deductions for charitable contributions, high medical expenses (I know, doesn’t affect you because other people pay for most of your Tricare) or mortgage interest?

3×5 isn’t very large -

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UH OH…..Last week you loons were foaming over polls…..Zogby out this morning and it’s enough to make you double your weed intake……….8 point bump in swing states…..hey, it’s CNN for heavens sake….LOL

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“because we the people do not trust government at any level.”

The cons trust willie on his taxes.

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Joseph

“A your logic… Ignore and not answer and hope I just go away. I’m not about to let you loons lie and use deceit… It’s unAmerican what you people on the left do…”

Are you saying Ryan did NOT call for eliminating capital gains taxes in his 2010 Roadmap for America?

Or are you saying if he said it in one place but not in another, that means he never said it?

Seriously?

Now… back to that 10:54……

fo-cus -

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Wow listen to one of the dem leaders lie! This is getting ridiculous folks….

fincherstew.com!

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Doggone/GA and Jay

August 13th, 2012
10:45 am

td – let’s make it simple for you: AFTER TAX MONEY CONTRIBUTED TO YOUR RETIREMENT IS NOT TAXED AGAIN WHEN YOU TAKE IT OUT.

Let us make it simple for you:

I make $100, 000 per year and my neighbor makes $100,000 per year. We both pay the same tax rate on our money each and every year. We both max out our legal contributions to our 401K account. I then take an additional $10,000 a year that I saved and invested that money in the stock market or any other investment while my neighbor spends all of his money each and every year. At retirement, my neighbor has no extra money to withdraw and my extra money is taxed at 15% because I was responsible. My neighbor may have to get medicaid to help pay his bills or Food stamps
to eat while I am able to pay my own way.

Now tell me again who is getting penalized for being responsible.

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“It’s unAmerican what you people on the left do…”

Versus what, Watergate, Iran/Contra, Iraq and Afgan wars unpaid for…missed a few, I’m sure. I think us liberals are pretty tame, actually.

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Bookman,

You’re just jealous. My guess is that you’d take a 1% tax rate all the way to the bank, if you could get it.
When are you liberal-types going to admit that paying 1% or 0% is absolutely fine…..as long as it’s done legally? Taking advantage of tax breaks, both big and small, is called “tax avoidance” and it is LEGAL whether you make $50 thousand a year or you make $50 million a year!

And now we know why Romney refuses to release ten years of his income tax returns. Bookman’s column demonstrates why completely. His whole column is based on Romney’s 2010 tax return that he did release, and Bookman is finding a hypothetical way to say he would have paid less tax if Ryan’s tax plan was adopted. Well, it hasn’t been adopted…..and it probably never will be, whether he becomes the next Vice President, or whether he doesn’t.

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If you’re a truck driver, you don’t wait to do maintenance on your truck until after you lose your job because your truck won’t run – you keep it maintained along the way so you DON’T break down and lose your job.
If you’re a dentist, you don’t let your equipment get so ragged that clients no longer come to see you AND THEN, once all the clients are gone, decide to upgrade your gear! You maintain it all along so it doesn’t come to that.

This is the difference between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives want everything right here and now – never mind having to pay for it! Let’s party! Cons like the instant gratification. Why? Cause Daddy’ll pick up the tab!

Liberals understand you have do maintenance as you go – you have to pay things off slowly cause there is no Daddy who will step in at the last minute and clear your debts.

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One per cent would be an increase up from zero per cent.

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Paul

August 13th, 2012
11:10 am

kayaker 71

“We should be able to fill our our tax return on a 3 X 5 card and submit it in 10 minutes. ”

So small business owners would, what, not have any business deductions in computing their income?

There should be little if any taxes on business. This drives down the ability of competition with other nations and therefore means less jobs in this country.

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This has really opened my eyes as to why the cons argue the points they do. They really don’t understand rate, gain and everything else that explains how we arrive at the tax amounts we do.

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Verbal Kint

August 13th, 2012
11:17 am

____

What you describe is not double taxation. The invested principal is what ts left over after taxes have been paid. The interest earned or profit earned after a capital gains sales constitute new earnings upon which no taxes have been paid.
New earnings means taxes on the new earnings.

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You can argue over taxes but the great part of this union is we have real leadership. Of course liberals are so afraid that independents will recognize this and turn Obama away in November. I am excited about Ryan’s selection as VP. It is a good thing for America.

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I think if you delete the tax loopholes for owning small businesses you’d see a TON of fake small businesses close up.

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All this babbling back and forth is pointless. Romney is now toast, thank God, Praise Jebus.

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Jay:

Romney has already paid taxes on his money has he not?

Elimination of Double Taxation of Savings. The current system essentially taxes savings twice: individuals pay tax on their earnings and, if they choose to invest those after-tax funds, they pay another tax on the return from their savings (i.e. interest, capital gains, or dividends). This proposal eliminates the second layer of taxation. Not only is this fair to individual taxpayers, it also is good for the economy. Greater savings leads to more investment and higher rates of productivity. Higher productivity ultimately drives increased living standards. The plan also eliminates the estate tax, another form of double taxation that is particularly harmful to small businesses.

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Logical Song

Wow, you admit in public, are you coming out for the first time.

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td

“There should be little if any taxes on business. This drives down the ability of competition with other nations and therefore means less jobs in this country.”

Filed under “do not get punked.”

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‘I am waiting for detailed non partisan analysis via direct Q&A from Ryan and those opposed to his plan’

How about Ryan’s own site? Do you believe him?

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My guess is that you’d take a 1% tax rate all the way to the bank, if you could get it.

This is the problem with being a selfish, self-centered MAH WALLET type—you automatically assume everyone else is equally selfish, self-centered, and totally unconcerned.

This gene is obviously associated with the one for total lack of self-awareness.

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Joseph

August 13th, 2012
11:22 am
You make too much sense! You are going to confuse the liberals and they will begin fabricating numbers, statistics, and have a consensus to debunk your logic.

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If anyone thinks for a minute that plenty on the liberal left don’t salivate at the prospect of no capital gains tax, you are not being honest with yourself. Go ask some of the big dems that are principals on Wall Street. It is more about understanding double taxation than it is about being a “con” or a “lib”.

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[I]t opens up an Obama landslide scenario for the first time. I’ve always thought that Obama wouldn’t be able to win more than a two-to-three-point re-election victory, mainly because a president almost never wins the votes of people who disapprove of the job that he is doing, and Obama’s approval rating is unlikely to be much above 50 percent on Election Day. But, while I don’t think it’s guaranteed, this really does give Democrats an opportunity to make Romney so radioactive that people who don’t like the president nevertheless vote for him. If the white working class revolts at the prospect of the Ryan plan, Obama really could match, or even exceed, his 2008 showing.
These types of picks rarely end well. When we think back on the “bold” or “unexpected” picks in history, they rarely have good outcomes. Agnew in ’68, Eagleton in ’72, Ferraro in ’84, Quayle in ’88, Kemp in ’96, Palin in ’08 are all looked back on with disfavor. The “good” choices were almost always “safe” choices.

~RCP’s Sean Trende

Loving the use of the “L” word….

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Doggone/GA

August 13th, 2012
11:22 am

” At retirement, my neighbor has no extra money to withdraw and my extra money is taxed at 15% because I was responsible”

YOU paid 15% on your “extra money”, Your neighbor paid the FULL tax amount on the money he DID NOT invest.

Not an accurate portrayal of my post. I said we BOTH paid the same entire tax liability on the original $100,000. It is the money that I chose to SAVE and INVEST after the fact while my neighbor CHOSE to spend instead of saving that I am paying a penalty on in the future (CAP gains rates). Why is this fair?

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Did Joseph ever respond to Paul and Jay regarding Ryan’s call for elimination of capital gains tax.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv4jnlkxOaw

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Want an example of TRUE “double taxation”? How about this: when my wages are paid to me I am taxed on them. Then when I spend them at a store I am taxed AGAIN on the money I’ve already paid taxes on.

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TaxPayer

Joseph seemed to indicate Ryan did not call for elimination of capital gains tax because it wasn’t cited in the link he provided.

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Jay @ 9:52

It is unfair to beat up on your posters like that. Funny that a flaming liberal, such as you have been labeled, has to school some of these “free marketeering conservatives” on how taxes work.

—————————-

Ben @ 10:27

See, that’s how capital gains works. First a company earns money. Then they pay lots in taxes to the government (unless they are GE, with a special relationship with Obama, then they don’t pay taxes). Then they distribute some of the post-tax funds remaining to their ownership in the form of higher stock prices and dividends. Then the owners, who already lost some of their money in corporate taxes, get to pay more taxes on the same money.

So, what’s the difference between that money and the money that’s taxed the same way and ends up being re-taxed with payroll taxes at a higher rate as opposed to being taxed as capital gains? Does the money not come from the same companies?

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Jay

August 13th, 2012
11:24 am

“At retirement, my neighbor has no extra money to withdraw and my extra money is taxed at 15% because I was responsible. My neighbor may have to get medicaid to help pay his bills or Food stamps to eat while I am able to pay my own way.

Now tell me again who is getting penalized for being responsible.”

So at retirement, td, I take it that you will refuse Medicare coverage? That’s the implication of your claim that your neighbor will get gov’t health care while you will not. If you do so, you will be part of the 0.0001 percent of retired Americans who decline to use Medicare.

Your argument is getting increasingly ludicrous.

Where does Medicare have anything to do with paying a penalty on this extra money that I saved and invested for the future? You my friend, like other libs will just not admit that being responsible is not penalized in your “progressive” way of thinking.

Way to try to change the subject instead of addressing the facts laid out before you. My statement is accurate and you know it and it is a penalty for being responsible.

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I take it that you will refuse Medicare

I believe td said Medicaid, which as you know is different than Medicare for which we all pay for through payroll deductions.

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RF, I posted the liar and chief for you in his own words at 11:27.

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Joseph 11:30

So in spite of what he wrote in his Roadmap for America, you position is Ryan no longer supports cutting the capital gains tax to zero?

What capital gains tax rate does Ryan call for?

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Ryan’s plan grows the economy, which creates greater opportunities for those that need it the most.

There is that amazing 2.5% unemployment thing….

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getalife. Look at the new Zogby poll out THIS MORNING. That’s all I can help you with.

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Joseph – 10:59 – you first.

you came here all guns blazing saying that Jay was a liar … I’m not shwoing you mine until you show me yours.

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Lt Col Razorback:

Step back for a second and consider something.

The very fact that we can say that the top 1% pay that high percentage of total tax revenues is the greatest possible indictment of the current system and really is a rallying cry for a revolt against it right this minute.

The 1% who pay those taxes don’t have to rely on income at all; they’re RENTIERS. They embody everything that Adam Smith wrote his volumes in an attempt to argue against. And yet, they are on the verge of consolidating a dominance over the rest of the population, who depend on jobs and income, their wage labor, to survive on, that we have not seen since perhaps the 19th Century.

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Where in Ryan’s plan do you fruits see he wants to raise taxes? The lowest earning Americans pay no taxes anyway. And still won’t under Ryan’s plan….

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” It is the money that I chose to SAVE and INVEST after the fact while my neighbor CHOSE to spend instead of saving that I am paying a penalty on in the future (CAP gains rates). Why is this fair?”

Make up your mind. Are you being taxed AGAIN on the principal you invest as after tax contributions or are you being taxed on the INCREASE from your investment?

(here’s a hint: it’s not the first choice I offered)

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Doggone/GA

August 13th, 2012
11:28 am
Want an example of TRUE “double taxation”? How about this: when my wages are paid to me I am taxed on them. Then when I spend them at a store I am taxed AGAIN on the money I’ve already paid taxes on

So are you saying you favor TRIPLE TAXATION on those choosing to invest rather than spend?

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Jay

August 13th, 2012
11:30 am

1: I said you were accurate.

2: Maybe true, but you conveniently left out the fact that Romney has already paid full legal taxes on the principal money, he also pays local property taxes, state taxes, gas taxes and sells tax for the police, fire protection, roads and other such measures.

By omission of all the facts you are attempting to say that Romney is not paying his fair share and the rich are hosing the poor of this country. What about the fact that Romney has probably paid more in Federal income taxes in his life then the bottom 30% of wage earners will ever pay?

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Ahem — “Our water service is provided by a quasi-government entity in the form of a Water and Sewer Authority.”

Then that’s not really a *private* venture, now is it?

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