One pro-Obama ad reveals a lot about 2012 campaign

One controversial ad by an Obama SuperPAC encapsulates so much that makes the 2012 presidential campaign distinctive:

– In its specifics, the ad is deceptive and brutally unfair. It suggests that by closing a Missouri steel plant and stripping its workers of health insurance, Mitt Romney and Bain Capital were in part responsible for the subsequent death of a worker’s wife by cancer.  It’s the kind of gut-wrenching charge that — if made at all — at least ought to be strongly backed by facts. Instead, the implication that Romney is to blame is barely plausible at best, given the timelines involved. Those who condemn the ad as irresponsible are correct in that assessment.

– However, in a Citizens United world, in which quasi-independent groups raise and spend vast amounts of campaign cash, this type of ad will become more and more familiar. Candidates can claim to have no knowledge of or control over such advertisements, and thus no responsibility for it. The rich donors who paid for the ad are often anonymous, meaning they too cannot be held responsible. And if no one is responsible, irresponsibility results. This is not rocket science, even if the geniuses on the Supreme Court are unable to grasp it.

– Accuracy aside, the underlying theme of the ad is powerful and emotionally resonant. Outside predators such as Mitt Romney and Bain Capital can perform a useful function in a capitalist economy.  They come into a company and make ruthless, heartless decisions without regard to the human cost, decisions that those with a longer history or commitment to the company perhaps cannot bring themselves to make. Over the long haul, in a macro-economic sense, that can be useful. But one of the primary questions of the 2012 race is whether the American people will be comfortable putting a person with that mentality and background in the Oval Office.

– Appearing on Fox News Wednesday, Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul denounced the ad in question as deceptive and unfair. However, she also noted that if the steelworkers in question had been working in Massachusetts instead of Missouri, their health coverage would have been protected by the health-insurance program created by Romney, a program that later served as the direct model for ObamaCare:

“To that point, you know, if people had been in Massachusetts under Governor Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care,” Saul said. “There are a lot of people losing their jobs and their health care in President Obama’s economy.”

While Saul’s observation was valid, it caused a huge outrage among conservatives, with many calling for Saul’s firing for the outrageous act of actually telling the truth. Es ist verboten on the right to acknowledge even the existence of RomneyCare during this campaign, let alone that it actually might serve a useful function.

That brings us back once again to the central question of the 2012 campaign: If we are to live in an Bain-type economy in which brutish efficiency is the primary goal and the human impact is not to be considered in decision-making, what steps if any should government take to protect individual Americans from the worst vagaries of that process?

In an era of increasingly no-holds-barred capitalism, do we also slash unemployment insurance, job training, Medicaid benefits, Social Security and ObamaCare, so that individuals are even more fully exposed to the cruel caprices of free enterprise? Or do such programs become even more important in an era in which jobs, companies and indeed entire industries can disappear quickly?

– Jay Bookman

631 comments Add your comment

Welcome to the Occupation

August 9th, 2012
10:11 am

They come into a company and make ruthless, heartless decisions without regard to the human cost, decisions that those with a longer history or commitment to the company perhaps cannot bring themselves to make

And some on this blog call Jay a “leftie”? :)

Do I have to use my real name?

August 9th, 2012
10:12 am

Aquagirl

August 9th, 2012
10:13 am

Aaaaand…..Ms. Saul scores a gold medal in the 100 meter faceplant! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

Welcome to the Occupation

August 9th, 2012
10:14 am

Es ist verboten on the right to acknowledge even the existence of RomneyCare during this campaign, let alone that it actually might serve a useful function.

Verboten indeed! Why, it’s almost as if she’d committed that absolute, unpardonable sin and uttered the name “Bush”!

Erwin's cat

August 9th, 2012
10:15 am

Erwin's cat

August 9th, 2012
10:15 am

I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not

August 9th, 2012
10:16 am

Good morning Jay. Just thought I would say this morning you are the best and most talented Opinion writer at the AJC. Thank you for being here.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

August 9th, 2012
10:16 am

From this headline I thought you were talking about this ad…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hPn0-GhFSY

as this is what the campaign in 2012 is really all about

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:17 am

I should mention, again, that this ad was called “not accurate” by CNN, but they have not said that about other clearly inaccurate ads on the Romney side, nor have they called any Obama ad “accurate” when it was.

Some of us might call that CONSERVATIVE BIAS.

getalife

August 9th, 2012
10:17 am

Our President is not including this ad in his campaign speeches

willie robme includes his pants on fire welfare pac lie in his speeches..

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
10:19 am

In an era of increasingly no-holds-barred capitalism, do we also slash unemployment insurance, job training, Medicaid benefits, Social Security and ObamaCare, so that individuals are even more fully exposed to the cruel caprices of free enterprise?

yes. because you see, if you don’t, then Goopers run around screaming “100 million on de WELFAREZ!!”

also too, you might not get invited to Karl’s for pheasant.

I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not

August 9th, 2012
10:19 am

Wonder what the father and mother of the killed border agent think about the ad with a government sponsored Fast and furious operation very close to this white house. Real time, not 6 years later. Just wondering.

Erwin's cat

August 9th, 2012
10:19 am

Jay – so are you saying that since capitalism is so brutal the govt should be more “compassionate” or be a safety net for those affected by the harshness of the capitalist society?

getalife

August 9th, 2012
10:20 am

When you get attacked for telling the truth, you might want to look for a new party cons.

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

August 9th, 2012
10:20 am

Sounds like Romney hired Newt’s team of winners!

Road Scholar

August 9th, 2012
10:20 am

What person in their right mind would allow PACS to be formed ? Oh yeah, the money grubbing politicians! Outlaw PACS!

Jay

August 9th, 2012
10:21 am

Erwin’s Cat:

Yes.

Erwin's cat

August 9th, 2012
10:21 am

Adam@10:17 – a hammer sees a world of nails

getalife

August 9th, 2012
10:22 am

Then you have masburn gop rep refusing to talk about robmecare.

I see a trend brewing and a new commandant from the gop.

Thou shall not speaketh the truth.

FrankLeeDarling

August 9th, 2012
10:22 am

Ditch the rich

I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not

August 9th, 2012
10:22 am

Wonder what all the parents of the soldiers killed in Afghanistan the past few months after this white house announced a pull out date and leaving our men and women over there with no clear mission getting picked off one by one…..Just wondering.

Erwin's cat

August 9th, 2012
10:23 am

Jay
I don’t completely disagree…

MiltonMan

August 9th, 2012
10:24 am

“This is not rocket science, even if the geniuses on the Supreme Court are unable to grasp it.”

Come on Jay. One minute you are signing the praises of the SCOTUS (ObamaCare) and the next you blasts them (Campaign spending).

Libs blasts Bain for “closing down businesses” but ignore Obama in his forcing GM dealerships to close down as part of his bail-out.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
10:24 am

“Appearing on Fox News Wednesday, Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul denounced the ad in question as deceptive and unfair. However, she also noted that if the steelworkers in question had been working in Massachusetts instead of Missouri, their health coverage would have been protected by the health-insurance program created by Romney, a program that later served as the direct model for ObamaCare:

“To that point, you know, if people had been in Massachusetts under Governor Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care,” Saul said. “There are a lot of people losing their jobs and their health care in President Obama’s economy.””

ruh-roh … someone broke the cardinal rule … don’t mention the war! er, healthcare!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xnNhzgcWTk

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:24 am

Peadawg: From earlier: Obama isn’t upset that the military get three extra days to vote. He is filing against the law in Ohio that restricts early voting, when it was previously available to everyone 3 days before the election, is now ONLY available to active duty military AT POLLING PLACES. In other words, these active duty military have to be on Ohio soil living in Ohio districts while being active. Also, Veterans, reservists, etc do not get this same ability – their early voting privileges were taken away. None of this applies to mail in ballots either from within state or from overseas military.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 9th, 2012
10:25 am

If anyone wants to see just how hacked off the conservative blogosphere is over this, I’ve selected a Freep thread for your perusal.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2916331/posts

Yes, it’s unwise to go to such websites, but just think of it as being a container of nerve gas being examined from safely inside a fume hood. You’ll be okay to check it out, just this once. :D

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:26 am

Erwin’s Cat: I’ll remember that next time someone makes a “liberal bias” argument under the same umbrella.

Jay

August 9th, 2012
10:26 am

“Come on Jay. One minute you are signing the praises of the SCOTUS (ObamaCare) and the next you blasts them (Campaign spending).”

So … MiltonMan is chastizing me for daring to look at things on a case-by-case basis.

Mighty Righty

August 9th, 2012
10:26 am

Here is the truth as it is known. The worker was laid off 7 years before his wife was diagnosed with cancer. The worker was offered a cash buy out when he was laid off. The wife had health insurance. The worker obtained another job working for a school system where health insurance that would have covered his wife was offered. The worker refused the health insurance. Romney was not at Bain Capital when any of the above took place. The worker is a paid campaign worker for Obama and has made several campaign ads for Obama. The worker was captured on tape during a conference call with officials of the Obama white house which is now dishonestly claiming they didn’t know about the false, malicious slime throwing ad. The Obama campaign, a year ago, established a strategy of destroying Romney’s character because they cannot talk about the Obama acomplishments as president because there are none. This lie is part of that campaign of disinformation and character assasination. Had the worker’s wfe been covered by Obamacare, the death panel would probably have refused her treatment based on the plan’s cost vs. probability of success odds. Most likely, knowing the normal speed of a government agency, the panel would probably not have gotten around to authorizing her treatment in the twenty two days she lived after the cancer was discovered. The real shame is that Democrats are unable to face the fact that Obama is disperate, will exagerate and lie at evry oppotrunity. The man has no character.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:27 am

MiltonMan: Come on Jay. One minute you are signing the praises of the SCOTUS (ObamaCare) and the next you blasts them (Campaign spending).

Yes, because if you are an official you’re either ALWAYS right or you’re ALWAYS wrong, no in between. :roll:

kayaker 71

August 9th, 2012
10:27 am

Liberals are under the mistaken assumption that corporations exist for the sole reason to provide jobs for unemployed and to serve as some sort welfare system for those who are employed. Poorly managed companies do not make it in the real world. Bain Capital was not in the business of providing some kind of nirvana for those companies that it took over. If they are not making money, there is no reason for them to exist. That’s the way business works. That harsh reality is hard to accept but reality often is.

Common Sense

August 9th, 2012
10:27 am

“Accuracy aside….”

You said it all right there….

MiltonMan

August 9th, 2012
10:27 am

“When you get attacked for telling the truth, you might want to look for a new party cons”

…still waiting for the new darling of the libs – none other than Elizabeth “pocahontas” Warren – to tell us about her Indian upbringing.

I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not

August 9th, 2012
10:27 am

mighty righty……….No facts needed here….move along.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 9th, 2012
10:28 am

I just read Paul’s post to me downstairs then I came upstairs to read Jay’s comments. I can truthfully say that I was taken in by the ad. As Jay said, “the underlying theme of the ad is powerful and emotionally resonant.” Yes, it got to me.

I guess I am more afraid of a “United Corporate States of America”, and I am of anything else in this world. Corporations do not base their business decisions on national concerns nor the concerns of their people. Bottom line is their goal and their God.

Mitt Romney represents a greater danger to the America I fought for, bled for and believe in than any Middle eastern group or nation could ever hope to be. I do not want to lose my rights to the Bottom Line of corporations. I certainly do not want to lose our ability to help those who needs it. Corporations are NOT people and Mitt Romney is NOT the answer for America.

Falconi

August 9th, 2012
10:28 am

I am happy to see the Dems going for the jugular for once. Remember “Swift Boat”? You reap what you sow.

Paul

August 9th, 2012
10:28 am

“That brings us back once again to the central question of the 2012 campaign: If we are to live in an Bain-type economy in which brutish efficiency is the primary goal and the human impact is not to be considered in decision-making, what steps if any should government take to protect individual Americans from the worst vagaries of that process?

In an era of increasingly no-holds-barred capitalism, do we also slash unemployment insurance, job training, Medicaid benefits, Social Security and ObamaCare, so that individuals are even more fully exposed to the cruel caprices of free enterprise? Or do such programs become even more important in an era in which jobs, companies and indeed entire industries can disappear quickly?”

And that’s what it’s really all about.

Romney’s time as governor would give hope that’s not the direction he’d take as an elected official; however, the question is, has that Romney been eclipsed by the candidate we now see? If the answer is “I don’t know” then the next question is “do we want to gamble on what we now see?”

Here we go!

August 9th, 2012
10:28 am

I heard about the above ad this morning on the news. I had not seen it until now. I watched it twice. I am an Obama supporter but I tried to look at this objectively. The republicans are saying the gentleman in this ad was blaming Romney for his wife’s death. I don’t agree. I do know most woman will suffer through pain at all cost when there is no health insurance. Anybody who has been in that position knows that. Heck, even if you have it you wait until you HAVE to go to the doctor, but woman will take their kids and husbands before going themselves. Very unfortunate situation, but I see this ad as an example of what Bain did, and continues to do. They make money but at what cost. So if elected, at what cost do we the people pay for Romney? I hope this ad will at least bring up the conversation that needs to take place.

ron

August 9th, 2012
10:29 am

“… what steps if any should government take to protect individual Americans from the worst vagaries of that process?”

Might ought to ask the 20,000 salaried (non-union) employees of GM/Delphi how well the government protected them and their pensions during the government forced “auto bailout” first.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:29 am

In other news, Gingrich admits the welfare argument from the Romney camp is bogus: http://www.youtube.com/embed/f32NyCdFqrI

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
10:29 am

PD, about military voting? Please read this.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-08-07/fact-check-obama-ohio-military-voting/56859922/1

Conservative blogs and opinion pieces have also misrepresentedthe case, claiming in headlines that President Obama was suing to “restrict military voting.” A fundraising email appeal from a group called Special Operations Speaks — which wants to “remove Barack Obama from the White House” — wrongly says that Obama “deploys army of lawyers to suppress military’s voting rights,” claiming that “Obama needs the American military to not vote, so he has set out to make it as difficult as possible for them to do so.” But that’s not what the Obama lawsuit aims to do at all.

The lawsuit, filed by the Obama campaign, Democratic National Committee and Ohio Democratic Party in July against Ohio’s secretary of state and attorney general, asks for an injunction to block implementation of state laws that modified in-person early voting regulations. In the last presidential election, all Ohio residents — military and otherwise — could cast their votes in-person early up through the Monday before Election Day. But contentious legislation passed by Ohio’s GOP-controlled Legislature in 2011 limited early voting for nonmilitary residents, giving them a deadline of 6 p.m. Friday before the election. Military members and overseas civilians could still vote through Monday. Both parties have squabbled, with Democrats saying the law is a suppression of nonmilitary votes and Republicans arguing that they are just easing a burden on polling places and guarding against fraud. (Mail-in absentee ballots are not affected; the new regulations affect in-person early voting.)

Contrary to conservative claims, the Democratic lawsuit seeks to restore early voting “for all Ohio voters.”

You still want to call this a “hissy fit”? I hope not.

[...] campaign aggressively courts women votersNBCNews.comNew York Daily News -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -ABC Newsall 7,150 news [...]

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:30 am

Sorry. Gingrich says there is “no proof” that the welfare argument from the Romney camp is true.

ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT

August 9th, 2012
10:32 am

Romney Care , Bain , Tax returns , Draft differments, Mitt, you got some splaning to do…

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

August 9th, 2012
10:33 am

“The Obama campaign, a year ago, established a strategy of destroying Romney’s character because they cannot talk about the Obama acomplishments as president because there are none.”

Not intended to be a factual statement

Joe Hussein Mama

August 9th, 2012
10:33 am

K71 — “If they are not making money, there is no reason for them to exist. That’s the way business works. That harsh reality is hard to accept but reality often is.”

If corporations are going to work to advance their positions and without regard for the welfare of the general public and of their employees, then no corporate officer needs to be surprised with the general public and their employees vote to regulate the living spit out of them.

That’s the way democracy works. That harsh reality is hard to accept but reality often is.

Recon 0311 2533

August 9th, 2012
10:33 am

This one gets the top pinoccho award. Jay begins by condemning the ad and then further on supports it. Jay, does, however, correctly reveal the Obama ideology along with his own. They’re both committed Socialists.

Paul

August 9th, 2012
10:33 am

Erwin’s cat

“so are you saying that since capitalism is so brutal the govt should be more “compassionate” or be a safety net for those affected by the harshness of the capitalist society?”

Think of it in terms of laws to prevent strip mining, polluted water killing people and causing birth defects (Erin Brockovich), FDA drug testing and approval before drugs are brought to market, etc.

M

August 9th, 2012
10:34 am

I forced myself to listen to Rush’s and Coulter’s rants about this yesterday, and their apoplectic rage was good for the soul.

Is an open convention too much to ask for at this point?

MiltonMan

August 9th, 2012
10:34 am

“So … MiltonMan is chastizing me for daring to look at things on a case-by-case basis.”

No. The SCOTUS is supposed to rule based upon the legality of the law/measure regardless of political leanings. When you Jay express your thought on the SCOTUS ruling (granted, as most people do) your political beliefs are used to determine if the ruling was just/unjust thus an attempt to void the non-political establishment that is supposed to be a bedrock of the republic known as the USA.

Not a Neal Boortz Redneck

August 9th, 2012
10:34 am

Yes, vulture capitalists (like vultures) perform a valuable service by devouring a carcass before it can infect other scavengers with disease.

Bain/Romney is the symbol of our times.

I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not

August 9th, 2012
10:34 am

Anyone gonna write a story or research the millions who have lost their health insurance due to the policies of this Administration, who have caused massive layoffs? ( I know, it was worse than we thought yadda yadda)……and who died from no health care policy? Just wondering.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
10:35 am

Adam, Obama needs to leave military voters alone. He must have forgotten that they are a protected group under federal law.

“Candidates can claim to have no knowledge of or control over such advertisements, and thus no responsibility for it.”

Except in this case Obama had knowledge of this individual and lied when he said he didn’t.

” The republicans are saying the gentleman in this ad was blaming Romney for his wife’s death. I don’t agree.”

Of course you don’t :roll: .

The Thin Guy

August 9th, 2012
10:36 am

Unless it’s repealed I will lose my Health Care in 2014 when Marxist Medicine becomes the Law of the Land. The cost will skyrocket, the quality nosedive, the waiting lines will make the Post Office and Drivers license operations look like a model of efficiency. I will have to appear before a Death Panel to request permission to have my teeth cleaned at 4 am by a blind Eskimo with a harpoon. Any tears for me and the other taxpayers?

Mighty Righty

August 9th, 2012
10:36 am

The Democrat party is the only political party who has ever attempted to keep our military personnel from voting. This policy was established by the Democrats in the Florida Gore/Bush vote recount when the Democrats tried to throw out the military votes and not count them. Their action in Ohio is merely an extension of the Democrats trying to not allow military votes to be counted.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
10:37 am

BTW, Jay. In this post, to me it really comes off as 1st condemning the ad and then 2nd making excuses and kind of sort of supporting it. Just my 2 cents.

Not a Neal Boortz Redneck

August 9th, 2012
10:37 am

Corporate profits are at all time highs in the USA due to Obama policies. How did that lead to massive layoffs?

Drilling in the USA is up 300% since Jan 2009.

Exports are at record highs.

Ahem

August 9th, 2012
10:37 am

The Obama campaign was apparently involved in this ad at some point as evidence proves. The fact that Obama himself has not denounced this scurilous attack tells many voters what kind of character they are dealing with in Obama. Nobody but his inside hacks and dishonest sycophants find anything acceptable about this tactic and those chickens will come home to roost. The Romney campaign is letting the oppostion take all th erope they need. Once Romney’s VP selection is public, his campaign will move to a new intensity and focus. Obama will lose and I predict by a much parger margin than pundits would have us believe.

To getalife: KOCH Brothers / Cons / Bush / Koch / cons / Bush. Rinse and repeat.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 9th, 2012
10:37 am

T. T. Guy — “I will have to appear before a Death Panel to request permission to have my teeth cleaned at 4 am by a blind Eskimo with a harpoon.”

Nice bit of hyperbolic writing there. Shame it doesn’t bear any resemblance to reality. :D

politicdiscourse.com

August 9th, 2012
10:38 am

As the coffers of political action committees overflow with election swaying dollars, many Americans continue to point accusatory fingers at the Supreme Court. But the “Citizens United” ruling is no more to blame for the continued corruption of electoral politics than Madison Avenue is to blame for America’s massive consumer debt.

America is the land of the free, but unfortunately, freedom and intelligence are often mutually exclusive. The housing crisis didn’t just happen because of banks’ predatory lending; it happened because millions of Americans were such foolish prey. The average American doesn’t carry over $10,000 in credit card debt because of emergency expenses incurred after losing his job; he carries the debt because the house he couldn’t afford to begin with wouldn’t have been complete without the HDTV and new furniture. When given the freedom to make important decisions, the half of Americans with below average intelligence will consistently make below average choices.

If you need less anecdotal proof of America’s intellectual shortcomings, take the National Assessment of Adult Literacy’s 2003 study which found that 43% of Americans cannot successfully “perform moderately challenging literacy activities.” This failure to make sense of moderately challenging literature is indicative of our country’s real political problem: many Americans cannot comprehend moderately challenging civic issues. If 43% of the electorate cannot form policy opinions based on the latest articles and literature by experts in their respective fields, they are destined to bite at the baited lines of thirty-second television ads funded by super PACs.

The current lack of civic aptitude among Americans is further evidenced by simpleminded folks taking hold of far-fetched, yet elementary ideas they can understand, like “Romney hates dogs,” or “Obama is a foreigner.” Prodigal super PACs are now free to exploit this kind of logical deficiency, but only because the masses are too dim to inform themselves—not because five justices decided to make a mockery of The Constitution’s first amendment.

If the television ads and other media propaganda of super PACs are enough to persuade would-be voters, then it is not the court system that has failed; it is the educational system and society as a whole that is culpable.

It is not the Supreme Court’s job to protect Americans from their own ignorance.

http://politicdiscourse.com/

MiltonMan

August 9th, 2012
10:38 am

““The Obama campaign, a year ago, established a strategy of destroying Romney’s character because they cannot talk about the Obama acomplishments as president because there are none.”

Not intended to be a factual statement”

…have yet seen an Obama “Forward” ad trumpeting his “reducing the debt in half, being a more transparent Washington, thousands of green jobs, a solid energy policy, less than 8% unemployment, etc., etc.”

M

August 9th, 2012
10:38 am

So if there’s outrage over Obama’s possible knowledge of this ad or the people in it, surely there is proportional outrage over how Sheldon Adelson is hosting fundraisers for Romney and is constantly in his ear about pro-Israeli issues while donating huge sums to a pro-Romney super-PAC, right?

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:39 am

Obama ad about one of his accomplishments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayILjfYs7xw

What’s that about how he can’t talk about his accomplishments because he has none?

Want to see a litany of positive ads he’s run on TV? You know, the ones he CAN’T do because he HAS to be negative all the time to win?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 9th, 2012
10:39 am

“Accuracy aside, the underlying theme of the ad is powerful and emotionally resonant. Outside predators such as Mitt Romney and Bain Capital can perform a useful function in a capitalist economy. They come into a company and make ruthless, heartless decisions without regard to the human cost, decisions that those with a longer history or commitment to the company perhaps cannot bring themselves to make.”

And the choice in those situations is to save “some” of the company or to watch the whole thing and everyone go down the tubes.

Your statement here is about as hypocritical as it can get. I can name policies all day that Obama has implemented that have cost people’s lives if that’s the standard you want to use …………. border policies, Afghanistan policies, health policies, etc., etc., etc.

Alex

August 9th, 2012
10:39 am

So where was all this reporting on the inaccuracy of campaign ads back when the very definition of “swift-boating” was being formed, and a decorated military officer was being slandered by a supposedly patriotic political party?

It’s funny how much the so-called “liberal media” bends over backwards to fact check these ads when they come from the left, but allows complete and total fabrications to slide from the other side.

Tom

August 9th, 2012
10:39 am

Because I am a good capitalist, I’m going form a new corporation and open a string of abortion clinics for one purpose: to make money. I’ll provide abortions to anyone, at any stage of pregnancy. I’m gonna rake in the dough. And if anybody says a word against it, it means they’re anti-American enemies of free enterprise. Because corporations exist for a sole purpose, namely to make money. Their actual activities cannot under any circumstances be criticized.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 9th, 2012
10:40 am

Ahem — “The fact that Obama himself has not denounced this scurilous attack tells many voters what kind of character they are dealing with in Obama. Nobody but his inside hacks and dishonest sycophants find anything acceptable about this tactic and those chickens will come home to roost.”

I certainly hope they do, and in the same way they roosted in 2004. (laughing) :D

Paul

August 9th, 2012
10:40 am

kayaker 71

” Poorly managed companies do not make it in the real world”

Perhaps you can tell us, based on your decades of experience, what management practices and funding mechanisms exist in the Department of Defense to make it a stellarly-managed ‘company’ whose business practices would allow it to thrive in the private sector?

You can begin with their health care business model. It’s an easy one. (hint: take total obligations for DoD health care divided by number of participants, then apply that number to, say, a company of your choosing or to the US as a whole).

Jay

August 9th, 2012
10:40 am

I think your take is accurate, Peadawg, at least to a degree. In its specifics, the ad is deceptive and unfair. In the larger issues it attempts to address, it raises important issues. Both can be true.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:41 am

Peadawg: Adam, Obama needs to leave military voters alone. He must have forgotten that they are a protected group under federal law.

And what is it about restoring early voting to Veterans and reservists, as well as everything else, that constitutes an attack on the military?

Ahem

August 9th, 2012
10:41 am

I agree with Peadawg’s observation about Jay in this particular post. It reminded me of the typical liberal/progressive/democrat non-apology apology. Sort of like the high school jock apologizing for grabbing the girls butt and then commenting on how good it looked and that she was responsible and shuld be ashamed for tempting him. And the head coach agrees and the stud plays on.

kayaker 71

August 9th, 2012
10:41 am

Joe, 10:33,

Government regulation does not a profit make. You can regulate a company or a corporation until the moon turns blue and it does not ensure that the company will stay in business. And if a company fails, all of those benefits go up in smoke. That is unless you are like Government Motors where the unions vote themselves what they want because they own the controlling stock. The harsh reality is that if a company fails for any reason, that “general public” that you rail on about is a non starter. It won’t matter.

Mark in Mid-town

August 9th, 2012
10:42 am

A couple of points about Bain. Bain largely bought troubled companies at discounted prices who had potential value if the problems could be turned around. No company turned around troubled companies better than Bain and Romney was a brilliant and visionary CEO of that company. Romney’s reputation as a uniquely talented problem-solver and turn-around artist was why he was turned to when severe problems arose with the 2002 Winter Olympics. Don’t know if those exceptional talents would translate into the presidency as I think Romney is a political stiff. Regardless, the truth is that Romney and Bain saved a heck of a lot more jobs than were lost. As well, Bain under Romney operated during a time when the U.S. economy was functioning on all cylinders. That means that in most cases, those who lost jobs could very easily find other jobs, a heck of lot easier than today after Obama’s policies have been in place for near 4 years.

The corrupt liberal msm, in clear conjunction with the Obama Campaign, has helped perpetuate the following 2 narratives. First, the economic problems of today are Bush’s fault. Then when that got tiring and started to lose traction, the narrative shifted to today’s economic problems being the fault of evil “predators” such as Bain and Romney. Obama is responsible for nothing. Just unbelievable dishonesty, but straight out of the Saul Alinsky playbook.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 9th, 2012
10:42 am

Tom — “I’m gonna rake in the dough. And if anybody says a word against it, it means they’re anti-American enemies of free enterprise.”

Sir, I am intrigued by your business plan and would like to subscribe to your newsletter :D

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 9th, 2012
10:42 am

Obama the “Grim Reaper” !

“1. There’s a well-established relationship between a nation’s prosperity and the lifespan of its people (see Figures 1 and 2 in my 1992 article in the Journal of Regulation and Social Cost).

2. Obama’s policies have dampened growth in the United States (according to data from the Congressional Budget Office and the St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank, actual GDP (in today’s dollars) is $836.6 billion below potential GDP).

3. Based on these two simple facts, we can conclude that the foregone growth is causing needless premature deaths.”

http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/danieljmitchell/2012/08/09/obama_policies_killed_59757_and_counting/page/full/

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:42 am

Peadawg: Sorry, as well as everyONE else.

Bottom line: This lawsuit is about overturning a law that takes early voting AWAY from people. Whether or not the law gets overturned, the active duty military still get early voting.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 9th, 2012
10:43 am

I see that some have difficulty comprehending that while the specific message may have some issues, the underlying concepts that the message tries to convey do have merit. :roll:

Thomas Heyward Jr.

August 9th, 2012
10:43 am

Ssssssssssh…..don’t mention Romney-care.
LOL.
.
For the first time in my life, I’m actually starting to think that Repugs are denser than Demos.
.
The republicans run on smaller government each year.
The democrats run on bigger government each year.
One group gets what they wish for.
One group keeps getting screwed.
.
Which group is smarter?
.
Don’t be a dummy………………..vote Gary Johnson.

M

August 9th, 2012
10:43 am

Saul Alinsky! Drink!

Paul

August 9th, 2012
10:43 am

Normal

” I can truthfully say that I was taken in by the ad.”

And my initial reaction to it was quite visceral, also.

It’s why it’s an effective ad for so many.

This thread puts the large issues into the ad’s context and that’s where the national discussion needs to be.

Ahem

August 9th, 2012
10:44 am

M

August 9th, 2012
10:38 am
So if there’s outrage over Obama’s possible knowledge of this ad or the people in it, surely there is proportional outrage over how Sheldon Adelson is hosting fundraisers for Romney and is constantly in his ear about pro-Israeli issues while donating huge sums to a pro-Romney super-PAC, right?

APPLE, meet ORANGE.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:44 am

You cannot simultaneously be against a candidate who has a “bad character” because of attack ads, while also being FOR a candidate who does the exact same thing, without some cognitive dissonance.

So, where are the Ron Paul people today calling both sides the same in an effort to be “uniters”?

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
10:44 am

“Yes, because if you are an official you’re either ALWAYS right or you’re ALWAYS wrong, no in between. :roll:

of course, the ironic thing is that JUST DOWNSTAIRS, he was saying that he didn’t like it when some peopel are portrayed as always good / always bad.

oy to the vey.

Compromise

August 9th, 2012
10:45 am

“If we are to live in an Bain-type economy in which brutish efficiency is the primary goal and the human impact is not to be considered in decision-making, what steps if any should government take to protect individual Americans from the worst vagaries of that process?”

I hope you are just talking about providing healthcare for unemployed persons.

I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not

August 9th, 2012
10:46 am

Hum, no takers on discussing the blood on Obama’s hands. There’s plenty. Ask away.

Not a Neal Boortz Redneck

August 9th, 2012
10:46 am

Did Bush denounce the SwiftBoat Liar ads?

I can’t recall any comment from he or Cheney.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 9th, 2012
10:46 am

K71 — “Government regulation does not a profit make.”

And the point goes WHOOSHing right over your head.

“You can regulate a company or a corporation until the moon turns blue and it does not ensure that the company will stay in business.”

Exactly my point. If corporations are going to f**k employees and say ‘well, that’s just business,’ then prepare for their employees to elect representatives who will change the way business is done.

“And if a company fails, all of those benefits go up in smoke.”

Given the corporate-driven cutbacks in employee benefits over the last 20 years, you can spare me this line of argument. It’s a sure loser for your argument.

“That is unless you are like Government Motors where the unions vote themselves what they want because they own the controlling stock. The harsh reality is that if a company fails for any reason, that “general public” that you rail on about is a non starter. It won’t matter.”

If a company screws its employees in order to get ahead, eventually the employees (read: the public) will figure it out and push back. You’re beginning to see this, post-2008. Business interests ignore this reality at their peril.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:46 am

MiltonMan: Obama on his jobs record and plan, positive ad, doesn’t hit Mitt Romney and touts 4 million new jobs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70tav9QveOM

SheeshLouise

August 9th, 2012
10:47 am

I saw the ad, and it is a highly decpetive if you choose to dissect it that way. People however are so dense that they don’t see the larger issue, and I think it was puposefully done to underscore the point. Opponents of the POTUS would love to throw this on Obama like hot grits, but the truth of the matter is, this came from a “SUPERPAC”! This is the VERY thing that Obama stood up in his first State of The Union and warned the American people about what the Supreme Court did in ruling the way it did in the Citizen’s United case. He told all of us that money was going to flood the system from “anonymous” sources to inlfuence (and basically BUY) elections of the future, no matter the cost (in cold hard cash ot trufh). But noooo.. his detractors only sought to mutter “not true” (Alito), and scream “you lie!”

Well, the chickens have come home to roost. Deal with it!

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:48 am

MiltonMan: POSITIVE Obama ad that ran on TV on his foreign policy/military/war RECORD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO7jeIOh4F0

Scuba Steve

August 9th, 2012
10:49 am

You guys know this means nothing, right? Honestly, you know Mitt Romney stands absolutely ZERO chance of getting elected, right?

I want you to seriously examine the amount of Mitt Romney signage you see around your area. Now, compare that to the number of McCain/Palin from 2008. The contrast is stunning, IMO, but feel free to disagree with that.

There isn’t a soul that is excited about Mitt Romney (which, how could you be…) and Republicans know it. Obviously, the thought of defeating Obama is of interest to Republicans, but it was in 2008 also. And people actually LIKED John McCain. Couple that with the inherent power of incumbancy and well……Multiple-choice Mitt probably shouldn’t quit his day job.

Ahem

August 9th, 2012
10:49 am

Not a Neal Boortz Redneck

August 9th, 2012
10:46 am
Did Bush denounce the SwiftBoat Liar ads?

I can’t recall any comment from he or Cheney

So, are you okay with this ad, which is the piece Jay is talking about?

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
10:49 am

“Whether or not the law gets overturned, the active duty military still get early voting.”

I get that. But he’s forgotten that the military has always had special voting privileges that others don’t have under federal law. The Democrats and the GOP know that Ohio is critical and they’ll do anything to get that vote.

Jay, this blog kind of reminds me of when someone says “I’m not racist but…”. Meh, I’ll see y’all later.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:50 am

MiltonMan: Still think Obama cannot or isn’t running on his record?

How about this one on his higher education RECORD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYkhnRO0aO4

M

August 9th, 2012
10:50 am

I hope Mitt quits his day job, seeing as “campaigning for President” has been his day job for the last six years or so (and people STILL don’t like him, or know much about him).

I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not

August 9th, 2012
10:51 am

Last time I looked, a company only has to provide 2 things to workers by law ( and the Dems been in charge a lot the last 40 years) Workers comp coverage and match Fed employment tax……….Oh, of course if you’re Union, we know getting your butt wiped and sharing all the profits is included.

Paul

August 9th, 2012
10:51 am

I’m a liberal 10:34

“Anyone gonna write a story or research the millions who have lost their health insurance due to the policies of this Administration, who have caused massive layoffs? ”

What policies of this administration have caused millions to lose health benefits and jobs?

Are you sure you’re looking at the correct administration?

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:51 am

Peadawg: I fail to see how Obama is even remotely doing anything negative towards the military regarding voting. Because he also wants other people to have the same voting capabilities they had before the law was passed? Is that like the pizza place that says “Oh we don’t charge you for delivery, we just give you a discount for picking it up”?

Compromise

August 9th, 2012
10:52 am

” want you to seriously examine the amount of Mitt Romney signage you see around your area. Now, compare that to the number of McCain/Palin from 2008. The contrast is stunning, IMO, but feel free to disagree with that.”

Probably do better to look at polls than signs IMO, Scuba. Just ask the TSplost people.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
10:53 am

We’ll just agree to disagree then, Adam. Military personnel have always had special voting rights and I think we should keep it that way.