Who’s the American here, and who’s unAmerican?

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A Missouri firefighter douses the last embers of a fire that destroyed a mosque in Joplin, Missouri, the target of repeated arson attacks.

On July 4, the nation’s birthday, some proud American patriot tried to set a mosque afire in Joplin, Mo. On Monday, a second fire succeeded in destroying the Joplin mosque altogether, burning it to the ground. Arson is strongly suspected.

Meanwhile, a new Islamic center in Murfreesboro, Tenn. — long delayed by arson, a bomb threat and legal challenges claiming that Islam is not a religion and that the mosque would become a headquarters for Muslims trying to impose Sharia law — is scheduled to finally open its doors for services Friday. Security will no doubt be tight.

The necessary occupancy permit was issued only after the intervention of the U.S. Justice Department. Last month, U.S. District Court Judge Todd Campbell ruled that the mosque was being subjected to unconstitutional standards that are never applied to other buildings and churches, and ordered local officials to allow its opening.

The mosque also became a central issue in a local congressional race, even though the Islamic center is outside district boundaries. U.S. Rep. Diane Black, the GOP incumbent, complained that “Christians’ rights to freedom of religion (is) violated frequently and the Obama Justice Department doesn’t coming rushing to our aid, but they will meddle in a local zoning matter to promote Islam.”

Lou Ann Zelenik, Black’s opponent, was an even more bitter foe of the mosque, pledging that if elected she would “work to stop the Islamization of our society, and do everything possible to prevent Sharia law from circumventing our laws and our Constitution.” (Black eventually won the primary contest.)

Members of nearby Grace Baptist Church are also making clear their opposition, erecting 13 large white crosses along the route to the mosque. “It was more or less to make a statement to the Muslims about how we felt about our religion, our Christianity,” the man who erected the crosses said. “We wanted them to see the crosses and know how we felt about things.”

However, I was struck by the response of a mosque leader to the crosses and other expressions of opposition:

“We love our neighbors, all of them, including the church next door. As Muslims, we believe in Jesus as well. Jesus said ‘love thy neighbors’. They are our neighbors, and we must love them.

“Also, our prophet Muhammad, before he died, told Muslims they need to love their neighbors and take care of them, and not only their immediate neighbor but extended to the seventh neighbor. That means everybody should love everybody, and that peace and love would be cast on the whole community.”

Clearly, we must prevent such dangerous sentiments from spreading and taking over the country.

UPDATE: I should note that several Joplin-area churches have volunteered to host an an interfaith “iftar,” or Ramadan fast-breaking meal, for the congregation of the mosque destroyed Monday.

– Jay Bookman

913 comments Add your comment

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
3:13 pm

The American, the real American, is the person who can accept others’ differences with the knowledge that their differences make our country stronger, not weaker.

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
3:17 pm

OMG! I’m first!! yeah!! Go Debbie, Go Debbie, Go Debbie It’s ya birthday!

First I want to thank Jay for taking the time to start anothe post. Then I want to thank Jam for being “tardy to the party”. Secondly I want to thank all the “Little people”, (you know who you are), who, without your small minds and your small ideas, made this blog possible.

Lastly I want to thank my mother, who, knowing she was going to have a baby girl after about 1/2 dozen boys said, “THANK GOD!!”.

OH and I want to thank the Academy.

Thank you.

Bernie

August 8th, 2012
3:22 pm

This is Georgia in the good ole days…..You could smell the ashes of the crosses burning in the front yards. The rotting of human flesh hanging from the trees!
The fear in the streets almost almost unbearable to comprehend. All waiting for sun to go down so that Hooded men can ride again.

This is the Georgia many of our senior African American Men and women remember
as if, it were yesterday! why is that a segment of our population are yearning for those nightmarish days and night to return?

The strange and interesting part those same citizens say now, those acts were not given its proper name until September 11,2001. TERRORISM!

Logical Dude

August 8th, 2012
3:24 pm

quoting the quoted quote: Jesus said ‘love thy neighbors’. They are our neighbors, and we must love them.

So, why doesn’t everyone try to live by this simple rule?
It is one I try to live by.

East Cobb RINO, Inc. (LLC)

August 8th, 2012
3:26 pm

These right-winged extremist ultra-religious fruit-cake nutjobs are no different than those they call their (or our) enemies. Sadly they cannot see themselves for what they are. It is why I no longer attend church services.

Peadawg

August 8th, 2012
3:26 pm

Sorry but I have to point this out – funny I didn’t see you do a post out you about mayors in Chicago and other cities saying they won’t give Chick-Fil-A building permits b/c of their views of gay marriage. Is that ok? Or no? Just for clarification.

“Clearly, we must prevent such dangerous sentiments from spreading and taking over the country.”

And you know damn well that not all Muslims think that way. He doesn’t speak for the entire faith.

Tundra Dude

August 8th, 2012
3:27 pm

Lou Ann Zelenik, Black’s opponent, was an even more bitter foe of the mosque, pledging that if elected she would “work to stop the Islamization of our society, and do everything possible to prevent Sharia law from circumventing our laws and our Constitution.”

Lou Ann Zelenik: Take Back Your Brain. Stop watching that Faux Nuze!

I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not

August 8th, 2012
3:28 pm

There will always crazy folks from all walks of life that do dumb things. You can not label individual acts by their race, creed or religion. The Fort Hood shooting was awful, and this one was the other day. Call me crazy, but a well armed public keeps crime down. Imagine only the bad guys having guns, and they would. It would opening day on crime everyday. I’ll take my chances staying safe with my guns.I don’t think owning a gun or not needs to identify your patriotism.

ragnar danneskjold

August 8th, 2012
3:28 pm

An American is someone distressed about concentration of power in Washington. Everything else is either irrelevant or unAmerican.

jeff

August 8th, 2012
3:29 pm

Muslims have never done anything bad ever!!!!
Well, except for a few bombings, and steering a few hijacked airliners into large buildings. Besides that they are all wonderful.

Ben Shockley

August 8th, 2012
3:29 pm

“On July 4, the nation’s birthday, some proud American patriot tried to set a mosque afire in Joplin, Mo. On Monday, a second fire succeeded in destroying the Joplin mosque altogether, burning it to the ground. Arson is strongly suspected.”

Jay (and fellow libs)…do you have proof that the Joplin fires were the work of “some proud American patriot” or any other conservative/Christian/other? I’m just thinking about the mosque that was set on fire in Cobb county a while back, you know, the one where the culprit turned out to be another muslim…

Paul

August 8th, 2012
3:29 pm

Sounds like Missouri and Tennessee need to reintroduce the teaching of American government and civics into their schools.

And these bozos look at the Mideast and wonder why people over there are trying to kill each other.

Personally, if I was there, I’d be heading to Friday services with them. Let them know that the ideals of America and the Christian faith are still alive and kicking.

Jay

August 8th, 2012
3:31 pm

Peadawg, I was on vacation during the Great Chicken Sandwich Controversy, but if things are as you report, no, that would NOT be acceptable.

Ben Shockley

August 8th, 2012
3:32 pm

Guess we’re not going to blog about the $1.4 trillion deficits and sustained 9+% unemploment until AFTER the election, and even then only if a republican takes office.

Peadawg

August 8th, 2012
3:32 pm

“Great Chicken Sandwich Controversy” – :lol:

Thanks, Jay.

Logical Dude

August 8th, 2012
3:32 pm

When Jesus said this, the man asked him: But who is my neighbor?

And Jesus told a parable:
A woman was beaten and mugged and left to the side of the road.
A minister, coming down the road, saw this, and crossed to the other side and went on.
A priest, coming down the road, saw this, and crossed to the other side and went on.
An Arabian homosexual HIV positive Muslim with a tattoo came along. Saw the scene and took compassion on the victim and helped the woman to the hospital. He stayed overnight to help and watch. When leaving the next day, told the hospital that he would pay the bill.

Who is that woman’s neighbor?

And the the man replied: The Good Samaritan

And Jesus said: Go and do likewise.

Ben Shockley

August 8th, 2012
3:33 pm

Heck, let’s talk about George W. Bush’s air national guard service. It’s equally relevant.

Drew

August 8th, 2012
3:33 pm

The ignorance, stupidity, self-deceit, and selective interpretation of the constitution of the new far-right wing of the republican party is really reaching new lows. The call to arms to prevent religous organizations from covering contraception in the name of religous liberty is massive. Yet these samehow think that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” should not apply to Islam. This idiocy is what has pushed me out of the republican party.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 8th, 2012
3:33 pm

Well, I think it’s time to be reasonable about them mosques. I think they ought to be allowed to be built if no one lives within, say, 15 miles. That way the Towelheads worshipers can have Freedom of Religion like us real Americans in the Baptist, Methodist, and Holiness churches. I mean, they got to have someplace to worship till we can convert them to a real religion.

So I’m real open-minded. I just wish more people in this state were the same.

Class of '98

August 8th, 2012
3:37 pm

Awww…. the poor, peace-loving religion of Islam is terrorized again. Why do they ALWAYS have to be the victims?????

Paul

August 8th, 2012
3:37 pm

Logical Dude

I’m going to have a difficult time not stealing that next time I’m in a discussion about making the New Testament relevant -

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
3:37 pm

Jay — Members of nearby Grace Baptist Church are also making clear their opposition, erecting 13 large white crosses along the route to the mosque. “It was more or less to make a statement to the Muslims about how we felt about our religion, our Christianity,” the man who erected the crosses said. “We wanted them to see the crosses and know how we felt about things.”

I wonder if this man *really* thought that he needed to make that point to the muslim congregation, or if he was just trying to be a Richard about it.

HavocMaker72

August 8th, 2012
3:39 pm

Debbie,
I don’t always agree with what you post, but you have to know that I think your 3:17 p.m. post was hilarious. Well done.

HM

Paul

August 8th, 2012
3:39 pm

jeff 3:29 Class 98 3:37

Hint: the theme’s about religious tolerance in America…..

fo-cus…..

HAPPY BIRTHDAY DDR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alex

August 8th, 2012
3:41 pm

Congratulations Ben Shockley, you’ve provided the entire class with a perfect example of “missing the point.”

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
3:41 pm

Call me crazy, but a well armed public keeps crime down. Imagine only the bad guys having guns, and they would. It would opening day on crime everyday. I’ll take my chances staying safe with my guns.I don’t think owning a gun or not needs to identify your patriotism.

Hey Crazy! the article wasn’t about gun control! Perhaps if you’d put down your gun long enough to actually READ the article and COMPREHEND what you’ve just read; the world — especially the U.S. would be a better place.

Just saying………..

rightwingextreme

August 8th, 2012
3:41 pm

Jay, peadawg is correct about the mayors in beantown and chi-town. both said CFA wasn’t welcome and/or that they would make it hard for them to get a permit.

BTW…the Jesus Muslims believe is not the same Jesus Christians believe in.

The following is Sura 9:5. This is in the next to last Sura from the Koran is viewed chronologically. This is part of the final message Allah gave to Muhammed: When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.

You won’t find anything close to that in the New Testament.

Jay, if Sharia law is implemented in the U.S it would be a very dangerous thing. Sharia law and English Common Law are based upon two entirely different world views.

The founder of Christianity, Jesus, died on the cross for the sins of the world.

The founder of Islam, Muhammed, killed thousands during the establishment of Islam.

History is very clear on this. Ask any historian and they will confirm this.

I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not

August 8th, 2012
3:42 pm

Whisper and ask a European about Muslims in there country.

getalife

August 8th, 2012
3:42 pm

Just seeing the rw’s true colors.

Our President tried to get a prisoner swap with the Taliban.

The October surprise might be peace with the Taliban and approved oil pipe line.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
3:42 pm

Ben

Is anyone stopping you from starting your own blog?

You could pick the topic, set the rules, etc

Knock yourself out

A Christian

August 8th, 2012
3:42 pm

It is frightening the hate the right wing has for people who are different…Muslims, gays, immigrants, etc., etc., etc. As long ads demogogues like Palin, Bachman, Black and Zelenik, and the like spout their hate, crazy people like the thug in Wisconsin will think it’s okay to kill those people. God help us from the so-called Christians whose policies and statements are the complete antithesis of Christ’s teachings.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
3:44 pm

extreme

“BTW…the Jesus Muslims believe is not the same Jesus Christians believe in.”

I’ll hazard a guess the Jesus those folks in Tennessee and Missouri believe in isn’t the same Jesus that Jesus believes in, either -

Class of '98

August 8th, 2012
3:44 pm

In an unrelated story, another hundred thousand little muslim girls had their cl*ts cut off today, but we must all remain tolerant and accepting of everyone else’s religion because all religions and cultures are perfectly equal in every way.

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
3:44 pm

I guess this topic and the previous are distractions from other news reports like the shameless anti Romney ads based on bold faced lies.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/08/steelworker-in-super-pac-ad-previously-appeared-in-obama-ads/

ragnar danneskjold

August 8th, 2012
3:45 pm

Peaceful protest is fully American, but interfering with the individual right to peaceful enjoyment of his property is unAmerican. Our host’s essay seemingly disapproves of both.

Ben Shockley

August 8th, 2012
3:45 pm

“Congratulations Ben Shockley, you’ve provided the entire class with a perfect example of “missing the point.” ”

LOL…likewise…

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
3:45 pm

“So I’m real open-minded. I just wish more people in this state were the same.”

Redneck Convert finally says something that’s actually funny.

getalife

August 8th, 2012
3:46 pm

I remember the cons being scared to death of aq and there was not a tea party to fight for freedom or spending..

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
3:46 pm

“In an unrelated story, another hundred thousand little muslim girls had their cl*ts cut off today, but we must all remain tolerant and accepting of everyone else’s religion because all religions and cultures are perfectly equal in every way.”

And that justifies the incidents Jay mentioned how exactly?

ragnar danneskjold

August 8th, 2012
3:46 pm

Dishonesty in political advertising is unAmerican.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
3:46 pm

Debbiedoright was first. Unlike LSU.

B

O

O

M

!

Paul

August 8th, 2012
3:46 pm

extreme

“You won’t find anything close to that in the New Testament.”

Ever read Revelation? About all those seals getting broken and what’s gonna get poured out on the earth?

You haven’t? Okay, how about an entire book telling a slave to go back into slavery and be a good little slave and for the owner to let him back……

Erwin's cat

August 8th, 2012
3:47 pm

Maybe the mosque didn’t display Chicago values

Bernie

August 8th, 2012
3:48 pm

Hate, is now mainstream AGAIN! and welcomed BACK! in America!

We say, Thank-you to the Republican and Tea Party Members and supporters.

We have heard you loud and clear…. Where would WE ever be without you?

Jay

August 8th, 2012
3:48 pm

“You won’t find anything close to that in the New Testament.”

However, you would find a lot of similar material in the Old Testament, which is also considered part of the Word of God, is it not?

A passage from Deuteronomy comes to mind:

“When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.”

“Do not leave anything that breathes….” Was that not the Christian God speaking?

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
3:48 pm

R. W. Extreme — “You won’t find anything close to that in the New Testament.”

Nice job of disavowing the Spanish Inquisition.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
3:48 pm

BOTH suck

No need to engage someone who doesn’t understand the difference between theology and culture.

Class of '98

August 8th, 2012
3:49 pm

It doesn’t justfy the violence. I just like to point out what an overrated word “tolerance” is. The German villagers living near Dachau were very “tolerant” of the odors eminating from it.

I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not

August 8th, 2012
3:49 pm

Romney ought to start every sentence about Obama with ” What we’re hearing is”…………

getalife

August 8th, 2012
3:50 pm

“Debbiedoright was first. Unlike LSU.”

Ha, it gives me pause about our quarterback when Miles gets Penn State’s quarterback but he like his two quarterback system.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
3:50 pm

R. W. Extreme — “The founder of Christianity, Jesus, died on the cross for the sins of the world.”

Well, that’s what he *said,* but I think we need to check his birth certificate before we accept that whole ’son of god’ line.

Butch Cassidy (I)

August 8th, 2012
3:50 pm

Can someone provide me with data indicating which state was the first to fall under Sharia Law as well as what freedoms people don’t have today that they had prior to January 20, 2009?Just curious.

Thanks!

James

August 8th, 2012
3:51 pm

Jay, do you believe everything the Muslims say?

Statistician

August 8th, 2012
3:51 pm

Oh wow I can’t believe people are debating this.

Jay

August 8th, 2012
3:51 pm

I don’t believe everything that anyone tells me, James.

What’s your point?

Brosephus™

August 8th, 2012
3:51 pm

Call me crazy, but a well armed public keeps crime down.

Hi Crazy!!! A well armed public sounds good, but it can actually be more of a liability than an asset. Being well armed doesn’t amount to diddly squat if you don’t:

1) Know how to use your firearm, and know how to use it well.

2) Know how to defend and maintain your firearm if an assailant is attempting to take it from you.

3) Know how to store your firearm so that it doesn’t fall into the wrong hands when you don’t have it with you.

If you can’t manage those three things there, all you’ve basically done is give your attacker another weapon to use against you.

————————-

on topic:

There is probably a segment of the Muslim population here in the US that sympathizes with the extreme Islamist outlook. I imagine that segment pales in comparison with the segment of American Muslims who take pride in being American and all that entails. It’s a sad day when people b*tch about being persecuted for their religious beliefs while they are stomping all over someone else’s beliefs at the same time. Maybe those extreme Christians should go take over Cuba or something. I think most Cubans are Christians (Roman Catholic).

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
3:52 pm

B. Cassidy — “which state was the first to fall under Sharia Law”

Someone better tell the Law family that their daughter really gets around.

godless heathen

August 8th, 2012
3:52 pm

My superstitions are better than your superstitions because most of my neighbors share mine.

Ben Shockley

August 8th, 2012
3:53 pm

“Whisper and ask a European about Muslims in their country.”

You might also ask them about cradle to grave government dependancy and it’s impact on the economy. Sadly, however, liberals are all about repeating the same mistakes over and over and over….

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
3:53 pm

In this particular case I think the Muslims showed grace and class and the so called Christian politicians appealed to the worst in people.

But in the great scheme of things Muslims routinely attack and kill Christians and other religions and burn their churches or places of worship to the ground- it happens routinely in Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Nigeria, and Muslim assaults against other religions take place in East Asia as well. It happens in a lot of places and as Merkel said and as one poster above pointed out Muslim integration in Europe and especially in Britain, France, and Germany hasn’t gone over well at all.

One single example of Christians behaving poorly and Muslims behaving in a good manner doesn’t change all that. Nice try though Jay.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 8th, 2012
3:53 pm

Members of nearby Grace Baptist Church are also making clear their opposition, erecting 13 large white crosses along the route to the mosque. “It was more or less to make a statement to the Muslims about how we felt about our religion, our Christianity,” the man who erected the crosses said. “We wanted them to see the crosses and know how we felt about things.”

Because using crosses to send a message to those you feel are being uppidity of course does not already have a history :roll:

St Simons - codewords are the new black

August 8th, 2012
3:53 pm

how many “isolated” wingnut attacks before it’s a trend?
how many “one lone nuts” before we can retire that raydio talky point?

i’m tellin you, we better get this addressed before Nov 7th
the unhinged cons are gonna come un-flippin-glued.

TaxPayer

August 8th, 2012
3:53 pm

Was that not the Christian God speaking?

That was Version 1.0. They have had an upgrade to a newer more forgiving God. One that asks nicely that you at least read the Ten Commandments rather than live by them and not to worry about failing to live up to them because there’s an escape clause for the believers.

Butch Cassidy (I)

August 8th, 2012
3:54 pm

TD – “One single example of Christians behaving poorly”

One? What, you never heard of the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition?

Logical Dude

August 8th, 2012
3:54 pm

Oops, in my parable, I forgot to add “undocumented”

Lord Help Us

August 8th, 2012
3:55 pm

Like many Patriotic Americans that have eaten more Chick-fil-a in the last week than in all of the rest of their years combined, my parents are terrified about ‘Sharia Creep.’

On the battlefield of the annual ‘War of Xmas’ last year they and some of their neighbors bought some new appliances (before the VAT tax was voted into law) and have a few hundred years supply of incandescent light bulbs in storage because they have been outlawed.

I wish I were kidding…

Jay

August 8th, 2012
3:56 pm

Thulsa, if you believe the point of the post was to propose the superiority of Muslims over Christians, I suggest a little remedial work in reading comprehension. It’s about living up to the values that we Americans of all faiths espouse.

Brosephus™

August 8th, 2012
3:56 pm

Is anyone stopping you from starting your own blog?

You could pick the topic, set the rules, etc

Knock yourself out

They BOTH

Ain’t no fun in writing a blog that nobody visits. It’s kinda like that tree falling in the forest thing when nobody’s around. :lol:

GT

August 8th, 2012
3:56 pm

One thing the election of Obama brings is honest positioning from the right. They once gave lip service to being fair minded about race, but that was when they thought they were dealing with confederate, worthless, money. Suddenly Obama wins their lip service got a black man in the White House and now they can’t afford the charity of conversation, people are taking them serious.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
3:56 pm

WOW

The number of bloggers who are attempting to down play these incidents by deflecting to what they say Muslims have done or changing the subject altogether is amazing.

Well Muslims did this
They did that
They even killed my cat

Class of '98

August 8th, 2012
3:56 pm

The Spanish Inquisition was responsible for maybe 10,000 deaths. Many estimates are much lower. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler (he was NO Christian, despite what your idiot high school history teach may have told you) and other athiests were responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths.

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 8th, 2012
3:57 pm

several Joplin-area churches have volunteered to host an an interfaith “iftar,” or Ramadan fast-breaking meal

Good for them. Glad to see some locals understand what religious faith is supposed to be all about.

I was able to dig up a few more details here.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/cair-mo-church-to-host-iftar-for-congregation-of-burned-mosque-165424196.html

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
3:57 pm

Bro

It was a nice way to say suck it up big baby and quit your crying

Logical Dude

August 8th, 2012
3:57 pm

Jays UPDATE: I should note that several Joplin-area churches have volunteered to host an an interfaith “iftar,” or Ramadan fast-breaking meal, for the congregation of the mosque destroyed Monday.

Yep, that’s what I’m talkin’ about.

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
3:57 pm

What an exaggerated topic as though daily we Mosque burnings all over America. We don’t have Mosque burnings all over America but we do have a far-left war against Christianity all over America.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
3:58 pm

TaxPayer

“That was Version 1.0. They have had an upgrade to a newer more forgiving God.”

So Christians think God evolved, yet they deny evolution? Hmmmmm………

gadem

August 8th, 2012
3:58 pm

Just like there are varying forms of Christianity, there are varying forms of Islam. For some right wingers to assume that someone that is Islamic is a terrorist who be akin to me assuming that ALL whites want to put on bedsheets and ride around in the dead of night to kidnap and kill blacks…so, is that true?

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
3:58 pm

Ben Shockley do have a point about Muslims in Europe. A damn good one he do.

Oh. I almost forgot. Sarkozy also had a little something to say about Muslim integration in Europe.

http://english.pravda.ru/world/europe/14-02-2011/116892-france_muslims-0/

I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not

August 8th, 2012
3:58 pm

” Muslims who take pride in being American and everything it entails”…………..No, most are hard working. Sitting at home on the front porch waiting for a government check ain’t their thing. The ones I know like working and getting rich……and geez, have employee’s they don’t split ALL the profits with.

Butch Cassidy (I)

August 8th, 2012
3:58 pm

Class of 98 – “The Spanish Inquisition was responsible for maybe 10,000 deaths.”

Oh good, that only leaves the Crusades.

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
4:00 pm

Class of ‘98, do you come from a long line of Klanners?

LOL…

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
4:00 pm

LHU — “and have a few hundred years supply of incandescent light bulbs in storage because they have been outlawed. I wish I were kidding…”

If they were going to spend that much on bulbs, they might just as well have skipped over CFLs and gone straight to LEDs. We’re just about done changing all the interior lighting over to LED and our monthly power bill dropped another $25 this year (we have leveled billing).

The LEDs would have cost more up front, but would have lasted a lot longer and saved them energy costs into the bargain.

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
4:00 pm

Correction on my last: as though daily we have Mosque burnings.

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
4:00 pm

Ben – here’s a hint “Start your own blog”. Hope you take it.

Paul — Thanks!! I have decided to turn 21 (again) this year!! It’s a wonderful feeling!!

Havoc – thanks!

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 8th, 2012
4:00 pm

mayors in Chicago and other cities saying they won’t give Chick-Fil-A building permits

Those mayors have not had a lot of support, actually.

I agree, it’s stupid and un-American to selectively determine that a restaurant franchise shouldn’t be allowed to open, simply because the CEO holds political views you find repellant.

See also:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/28/nyregion/bloomberg-calls-chick-fil-a-bans-inappropriate.html

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
4:00 pm

Uh Oh

Here comes the war on Christmas stories

I remember several years ago Bill Oliely and others going on and on about Happy Holidays vs Merry Christmas. The travesty was going to bring down this nation.

Irony: The Christmas ornaments that Fox was selling with the pundits name and face on them read “HAPPY HOLIDAYS”……….

hahahahaha

:-)

Brosephus™

August 8th, 2012
4:00 pm

I guess this topic and the previous are distractions from other news reports like the shameless anti Romney ads based on bold faced lies.

……………

Dishonesty in political advertising is unAmerican.

Maybe Jay should talk about dishonesty in political advertising for this campaign. What say ye, Jay???

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/bill-clinton-denounces-romneys-welfare-ad/2012/08/07/7a52283a-e102-11e1-8fc5-a7dcf1fc161d_blog.html

Former president Bill Clinton is speaking out against a new ad from Mitt Romney’s campaign that accuses President Obama of rolling back Clinton’s welfare reforms.

“Gov. Romney released an ad today alleging that the Obama administration had weakened the work requirements of the 1996 Welfare Reform Act. That is not true,” Clinton said in a statement from his office at the Clinton Foundation released late Tuesday night.

I think the Fact Checker at WaPo gave that ad 4 Pinocchios, and Fact Check gave it a “Pants on Fire” rating. Seems like this campaign has devolved into “What’s good for the goose is good for the gander”. Don’t start a mud slinging fight if you don’t wanna get dirty. Romney should have known that.

Class of '98

August 8th, 2012
4:02 pm

Okay let’s assume the Crusades (which were WARS over territory, and people die in wars), was responsible for another 100,000 deaths, on the high end. 110,000 versus hundreds of millions. I’m not saying the Crusades or Inquisition were GOOD, but they resulted in nowhere near the suffering in death that results from atheist socialism.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
4:02 pm

Jay,

And as I clearly pointed out in this case the Muslims were in the right and the Christians were in the wrong. Perhaps in your own reading comprehension you missed that piece.

My point is that in the great scheme of things that Muslim violence against Christians is a far larger issue than Christian antagonism or violence towards Islam. Finding one little example of Christians behaving badly doesn’t change the big picture sir- though you tried.

rightwingextreme

August 8th, 2012
4:02 pm

Jay, yes…the passage you cite from the OT is from God. However it was directed to the Jews as they were moving into the Promised Land. This was given so they would not adopt the practices of those nations…which sadly the Bible does record they did and received the judgment of God. I will make no apologies for how God deals with His people.

But to my earlier point…and apparently no one can disagree, in the NT there is no where that Christians are commanded to kill their enemy.

To another poster’s point there is Revelation. However, that is what is to come for those who have not accepted Christ as Savior. So there is time for repentance of sins before this happens. And yes there were admonitions about slavery. However, the point of the NT is to introduce people to the forgiveness of Christ.

Paul was not attempting to address the issue of slavery in the Roman Empire. (Notice nothing was specifically said either about infant sacrifice or abortion which was practiced in the Empire either…however, Christianity was against both as it is against abortion today!) He was trying to introduce Christianity, which I might add, was one of the driving forces behind ending slavery in the western world. Wish I could say Islam ended slavery in their part of the world, but it continues to this day. We won’t even discuss the role of women in Islam! Let’s just say Pelosi and crowd would have a very difficult time under Sharia Law!

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
4:02 pm

‘98 — “The Spanish Inquisition was responsible for maybe 10,000 deaths. Many estimates are much lower. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler (he was NO Christian, despite what your idiot high school history teach may have told you) and other athiests were responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths.”

Say what you will, but more people have been killed in the name of religion than have been killed in the name of atheism.

Class of '98

August 8th, 2012
4:03 pm

JamVet, thanks for continuing to prove that when liberals run out of arguments, they accuse racism.

As predictable as the sun rising.

I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not

August 8th, 2012
4:03 pm

Would love to go to a Christmas party with all the folks on here………..Whoops, Holiday party, my bad,.

Lord Help Us

August 8th, 2012
4:04 pm

‘My point is that in the great scheme of things that Muslim violence against Christians is a far larger issue than Christian antagonism or violence towards Islam’

Tell that to about 100,000 Iraqis…

Class of '98

August 8th, 2012
4:04 pm

Joe Hussein Mama – “more people have been killed in the name of religion than have been killed in the name of atheism”

You are incorrect, and it’s not even close.

I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not

August 8th, 2012
4:04 pm

Class, you got that right, for the first time in my life, disagreeing with a Dem makes me a racist.

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
4:05 pm

Removing the welfare reform work requirement is rolling it back.

Matti

August 8th, 2012
4:06 pm

“The Spanish Inquisition was responsible for maybe 10,000 deaths.”

Oh, wow. Is THAT all? Can we count one death as two if they are horrific public-torture deaths in which innocent people die suffering unimaginable pain while begging for their lives? :roll:

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
4:06 pm

‘98 — “You are incorrect, and it’s not even close.”

You’re right that it’s not even close. But I’m not wrong. More have been killed in the name of religion than have been killed in the name of atheism.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
4:06 pm

afternoon, Thulsa

“My point is that in the great scheme of things that Muslim violence against Christians is a far larger issue than Christian antagonism or violence towards Islam. Finding one little example of Christians behaving badly doesn’t change the big picture sir- though you tried.”

Try looking at it in the context of the article: Christians in America and Muslims in America and the Constitution that overarches both -

I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not

August 8th, 2012
4:06 pm

How about these 30- 40 inner city folks in Chicago getting murdered everyday. Ole Rahm blamed that on Bush yet? Anyone care about them? That is awful. Lot’s of good speech’s given about it though.

Jay

August 8th, 2012
4:07 pm

The complaints from Europeans about Muslims not assimilating are hypocritical. For decades, they have refused to allow the Muslims to assimilate — until recently in Germany, for example, you could be fourth-generation German-born but if you were of Turkish descent you would not be considered a German citizen.

Europeans have never been as willing to accept outsiders as Americans have. That’s part of what has made America strong, vibrant and flexible. To see people here urging that we adopt the European approach … it’s nonsense, because the European approach will produce the European results.

Brosephus™

August 8th, 2012
4:07 pm

They BOTH

I know. I was simply trying to inject a bit of realism there.

————————–

Ben Shockley do have a point about Muslims in Europe. A damn good one he do.

A damn good MOOT point. Do you not know the difference between those countries and the US? Are you saying that as a Right Leaning American, you don’t believe in the US Constitution?

Article VI

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwith-standing.

Can you show where that passage comes up in any European country’s Charter, Constitution, or whatever document serves as the foundation of their country?

Butch Cassidy (I)

August 8th, 2012
4:07 pm

“The Spanish Inquisition was responsible for maybe 10,000 deaths.”

Actually 98 is right. Luckily, the inquisitons in the Netherlands and Germany at the same time made up for it with their death toll of over 50,000.

Max Helio

August 8th, 2012
4:07 pm

Jeff @ 3:29pm – how quickly you forget Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph. McVeigh was raised Catholic and Rudolph identified himself as an adult as Catholic.

Catholics have never done anything bad ever!!!! Well, except for a few bombings….Besides that they are all wonderful. Terrorism comes in all shapes and sizes. And religions.

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
4:08 pm

“Debbiedoright was first. Unlike LSU.”

Anybody smell some trees burning? Man! I wonder if a BAMA is hanging around stinking up the blogs again………… :)

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
4:08 pm

…but we do have a far-left war against Christianity all over America.

PREPARE THE FAINTING COUCHES!!

Class of '98

August 8th, 2012
4:08 pm

Joe Hussein, I suggest you find a book or two about Mao and Stalin. They alone killed tens of millions of people in the name of their atheist regimes. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
4:08 pm

Bro

You have to love it. If nothing else, you are going to get some laughs on this blog.

Some days, you get some insights, but all days……… LAUGHS

:-)

East Lake Ira

August 8th, 2012
4:10 pm

Jesus rode a dinosaur.

End of story.

jeff

August 8th, 2012
4:10 pm

Paul, why attack me? I was just saying how wonderful Muslims were. Wow, the intolerance!!!!

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

August 8th, 2012
4:10 pm

My point is that in the great scheme of things that Muslim violence against Christians is a far larger issue than Christian antagonism or violence towards Islam. Finding one little example of Christians behaving badly doesn’t change the big picture sir- though you tried.

Ever hear of the Crusades ?

The Iraq war ?

Christians are far more violent and have killed many many more Muslims than the other way around.

Its not even close.

curious

August 8th, 2012
4:11 pm

Who all have us WASPy Christians disliked, even hated?

1- Crusades against Arabs
2- Catholics against Protestants
3- Christians against Jews
4- American settlers against Native Americans
5- WASPs against all other immigrants (Irish Catholic, Italian Catholic, Chineses, Japanese)

I’m sure there are a lot of other groups (Mormons for instance) that could be added.
All this doesn’t include our own self hatred when preople coming to this country to escape religios persecution, encountered more of the same if thay settled in the wrong place.

Now we’ve come full circle and are back to focusing on the Arab/Muslims.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
4:11 pm

“. To see people here urging that we adopt the European approach … it’s nonsense, because the European approach will produce the European results.”

Off topic but too good to pass up…

“. To see people here urging that we adopt the Republican approach of the last decade… it’s nonsense, because that Republican approach will produce the samd results.”

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
4:11 pm

‘98 — “Joe Hussein, I suggest you find a book or two about Mao and Stalin. They alone killed tens of millions of people in the name of their atheist regimes.”

Nope. They *were* responsible for the deaths of millions, that’s true. But they didn’t do any of it *in the name of atheism.*

“You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.”

Funny, I was about to say the same thing to you.

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismmyths/p/AtheismKills.htm

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
4:12 pm

DDR

What’s up lady? Hope all is well with you and yours

Butch Cassidy (I)

August 8th, 2012
4:13 pm

Here’s a few more examples of what Class of 98 would consider minor offenses by “Christians”:

The Crusades (1095-1291): The Crusades were a series of multiple military actions—mostly sanctioned by the Papacy—that occurred from the 11th to the 13th centuries. Originally, they were Roman Catholic attempts to get the Holy Land from the Muslims, but some were aimed against other Europeans, for example the Fourth Crusade versus Constantinople, the Albigensian Crusade versus the Cathars of southern France, as well as the Northern Crusades. Death toll: Estimates range from 1,000,000 to 5,000,000.

Witch Hunts (1400-1800): Death toll roughly estimated to be between 50,000 and 60,000.

The French Wars of Religion (1562-1598): The French Wars of Religion represented a series of battles between Catholics and Huguenots (Protestants) from the mid 16th century to the Edict of Nantes in 1598, including civil infighting in addition to military operations. Death toll: 2,000,000–4,000,000.

The Thirty Years’ War (1618-1648): This was a battle waged mainly in the Central European territory of the Holy Roman Empire, but additionally involving the majority of the main continental powers. It took place for myriad reasons. Although it was from its beginning a religious conflict between Protestants and Catholics, the self-preservation of the Habsburg dynasty was also a key motive behind it. Death toll: 3,000,000–8,000,000

Paul

August 8th, 2012
4:13 pm

jeff

If you think pointing out a blogger is missing the theme of the thread is an attack, I’d suggest you ask JamVet for a spare fainting couche. He’s pulling them out now -

Jay

August 8th, 2012
4:13 pm

“How about these 30- 40 inner city folks in Chicago getting murdered everyday?

In July, a total of 49 people were murdered in Chicago, a far cry from the 950-1,200 victims a month implied by the man who believes everything he’s told.

Believe nothing he says.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 8th, 2012
4:13 pm

Christianity: now with 25% fewer mass atrocities. :roll: These claims not evaluated by anyone for truthfulness, but hey, it do sound good and you’ll lose weight too

That Black Guy

August 8th, 2012
4:13 pm

Adam, msg 4 u downstairs.

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
4:13 pm

rightwingextreme,

Attempting to explain the Old Testament and how it leads into God’s plan in the New Testament to left-wing non-believers is admirable on your part but an unfortunate waste of time. They’re closed minded and have no desire to learn.

ty webb

August 8th, 2012
4:14 pm

perhaps if muslims made a tasty enough chicken sandwich, I could also overlook their views on gay marriage…or gays in general(though they’d have to throw in some waffle fries too).

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

August 8th, 2012
4:15 pm

How about these 30- 40 inner city folks in Chicago getting murdered everyday.

30 or 40 a day. That is alot

In reality its about 2 a day. Thats not great either but please dont exaggerate.

It doesn’t help you make your point.

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
4:15 pm

‘98 if the foo sh*ts, wear it.

Look at what you pal John Birch wrote the other day. (Who cares about a few Sikhs?)

Look at what 71 and pogo and Scout among others have written here have written about blacks. You guys are crawling with intolerance and bigotry. It absolutely defines your heritage and ideology. As exemplified by the 98% white gathering that will take place at the Republican National Circus in Tampa later this month.

So, you and meat run away to your sophist and irrelevant observations about the events of many hundreds of years ago.

if I were a southern, white, Christian, arch-conservative male, I too would get the hell off of this subject as quick as possible…

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
4:16 pm

Recon — “Attempting to explain the Old Testament and how it leads into God’s plan in the New Testament to left-wing non-believers is admirable on your part but an unfortunate waste of time. They’re closed minded and have no desire to learn.”

I’m familiar with your holy books, I simply don’t repose any trust or belief in them.

In my experience, a close reading of the bible is an excellent way to become an atheist.

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

August 8th, 2012
4:16 pm

Beat me to it again Jay

Brosephus™

August 8th, 2012
4:17 pm

Removing the welfare reform work requirement is rolling it back.

If that was the case, you’d be right. However, you’re just as wrong as Romney’s camp is.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/policy/im-ofa/2012/im201203/im201203.html#

There’s the actual letter that Sebelius wrote. Note this particular passage here.

While the TANF work participation requirements are contained in section 407, section 402(a)(1)(A)(iii) requires that the state plan “[e]nsure that parents and caretakers receiving assistance under the program engage in work activities in accordance with section 407.” Thus, HHS has authority to waive compliance with this 402 requirement and authorize a state to test approaches and methods other than those set forth in section 407, including definitions of work activities and engagement, specified limitations, verification procedures, and the calculation of participation rates. As described below, however, HHS will only consider approving waivers relating to the work participation requirements that make changes intended to lead to more effective means of meeting the work goals of TANF.

The only changes that are being waved to the work requirement are changes that still lead to the goal of removing people from the rolls. There is no more of an attempt to let people just sit home and collect a check now as there was in the 1990’s when welfare was last reformed.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
4:17 pm

Brocephus,

Well in terms of sheer disgust I have a 4 pinnocchio one that blows away the one you presented. Its quite despicable that the Obama campaign tried to blame Romney for the cancer death of a woman who died in 2006- 7 years after Romney left day to day management of Bain capital. Kinda reminds me of when the Obama campaign lied about an Illinois man having his insurance unfairly cancelled and then dying of cancer. Or Obama’s bogus charge of insurance companies and his own mothers cancer death.

The depths to which Democrats will sink and the sliminess with which they will cover themselves knows no bounds. Shameless.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/new-anti-romney-ad-same-steelworker-tougher-message/2012/08/07/ac9afe2c-e0ab-11e1-8fc5-a7dcf1fc161d_blog.html

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
4:18 pm

PREPARE THE FAINTING COUCHES!!

Be advised that we’re not fainting no where close.

ty webb

August 8th, 2012
4:18 pm

“bigots” burn down house of “bigotry”…right?

Butch Cassidy (I)

August 8th, 2012
4:18 pm

Hey, anyone come up with that list of rights that we don’t have anymore that we had prior to 1/20/2009? I’ll settle for the first state that is now under Sharia Law if you can’t find any examples.

Thanks!

Jay

August 8th, 2012
4:18 pm

Seriously people:

Do you guys honestly believe this post is about which religious group is more murderous? Is this debate some kind of attempt to justify or legitimize the kind of behavior I described above?

These blog comments sadly illustrate the power that tribalism holds on the primitive human brain. It instinctively becomes us vs. them, they’re worse than we are. It also validates the necessity of protecting religious freedom and keeping state and church separate.

curious

August 8th, 2012
4:19 pm

Probably 99+% of us Christians are Christians because our parents raised us in a Christian community. If I had been born to a Muslim family in a Muslim community, I most likely be Muslim (and you would, too).

That Black Guy

August 8th, 2012
4:19 pm

DebbieDoRight – The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
3:17 pm
OMG! I’m first!! yeah!! Go Debbie, Go Debbie, Go Debbie It’s ya birthday!

First I want to thank Jay for taking the time to start anothe post. Then I want to thank Jam for being “tardy to the party”. Secondly I want to thank all the “Little people”, (you know who you are),………

(directorback stage “cue the music”) 8)

J/K DDR

Brosephus™

August 8th, 2012
4:19 pm

That last part was my words and should not have been in italics. My bad.

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
4:19 pm

dWhat an exaggerated topic as though daily we Mosque burnings all over America. We don’t have Mosque burnings all over America but we do have a far-left war against Christianity all over America.

Recon – seriously, have you taken up drinking hard liquor all day in order to finish killing off what’s left of your brain cells? For once Recon could you please say something original that didn’t come from Faux News or LimpBalls’ website first?

Oh and put down the scotch glass.

Jefferson

August 8th, 2012
4:21 pm

Give Buckhead to the Cherokees and see if it is resented by some of the gentry living there.

Brosephus™

August 8th, 2012
4:21 pm

Doom

You’ve got me completely twisted bro. I’m not trying to defend Obama at all. I’m just tired of the Romneyites whining about Obama spreading lies when both campaigns have been doing the same damn thing. I could care less about what that Priorities ad said because I don’t really listen to that garbage. That said, I will continue to call out someone who tries to paint this BS as a one-sided affair.

Class of '98

August 8th, 2012
4:22 pm

Butch Cassidy (I) – All of those atrocities combined ALMOST approach what Josef Stalin alone was responsible for.

Jay, I am just trying to educate the ignorant.

Adam

August 8th, 2012
4:22 pm

For those quoting Bible verses, remember, we are all the same:

All of us pick the parts of the Bible we like, and ignore the rest

:D

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
4:23 pm

Looks like the Christian religion is filled with atrocities going back numerous centuries. History don’t lie.

But is this the year 1200? Or the year 1600? Or is it 2012? Historical atrocities from many centuries ago don’t have a damn thing to do with the here and now of what’s going on in 2012.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
4:23 pm

jay @ 4:18

BINGO

Award yourself a prize for the post of the day

Butch Cassidy (I)

August 8th, 2012
4:23 pm

Jay – “Do you guys honestly believe this post is about which religious group is more murderous?”

Not really, but I couldn’t resist responding to Dooms comment that it’s “one example of Christians behaving badly” remark.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 8th, 2012
4:23 pm

It also validates the necessity of protecting religious freedom and keeping state and church separate.

Hear! Hear! and harrumph. If protecting CFA’s “right to free speech” (a false claim) was worth some “appreciation day”, then we should be standing up as Amercans for a diversity of religious tolerance appreciation day.

East Lake Ira

August 8th, 2012
4:23 pm

I was promised a flying car, dammit.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
4:25 pm

In light of the moderator post at 4:18, can anyone who posted along the lines of “Christians are persecuted, Muslims did more bad stuff, etc etc etc”

can any of them offer a post justifying the actions of the people of Tennessee and Missouri cited in the story?

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
4:25 pm

Jay — “These blog comments sadly illustrate the power that tribalism holds on the primitive human brain. It instinctively becomes us vs. them, they’re worse than we are. It also validates the necessity of protecting religious freedom and keeping state and church separate.”

I completely agree.

Instead of trying to handwave this sort of thing away, I think that faith communities would serve themselves and the public well by discussing how intolerant mindsets might take hold among individuals in their groups, and move to ameliorate such conditions when they are found.

IMO, any given congregation would come out of such self-examination *stronger* and *better* for having done it.

Erwin's cat

August 8th, 2012
4:25 pm

TBS – They even killed my cat

no need to make this personal :)

Butch Cassidy (I)

August 8th, 2012
4:26 pm

Class of 98 – “I am just trying to educate the ignorant.”

Great, then maybe you can tell me what freedoms we don’t have anymore that did have prior to January 20,2009?

Liberal Chicks are UGLY

August 8th, 2012
4:26 pm

Forgive me, I thought you would post a blog with a point. What’s the point? Burning other people’s churches are bad? Thanks Captain Obvious, I’ll keep that in mind.

Lord Help Us

August 8th, 2012
4:26 pm

‘Do you guys honestly believe this post is about which religious group is more murderous?’

No, I think you were more specific…it is about who is more ‘American.’

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
4:26 pm

” HHS will only consider approving waivers relating to the work participation requirements that make changes intended to lead to more effective means of meeting the work goals of TANF.”

The devils in the detail. This is nothing more than another vote pander tactic to get Obama reelected.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
4:27 pm

Brocephus,

The Obama campaign lies have set new lows in degrees of shamelessness. That bit about blaming Romney for the cancer death of a woman 7 years after the fact is just plain despicable. It really is.

And then there was Obama’s speech the other day about Romneyhood stealing from the middle class and giving to the rich. That speech was just a big, fat lie. Romney’s plan does not raise taxes on the middle class and give money to the rich. That speech was so factually inaccurate and completely bogus that its mindboggling. Its just embarrrassing to see the president of the U.S. stand there and just lie. And he knows what he is saying is a lie. This man and his campaign have no shame. None.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
4:27 pm

Paul @ 4:25

That was my point in one of my earlier posts. Even if it is not being done of purpose, there is a huge amount of deflection and downplaying of the incidents as if they shouldn’t be addressed.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
4:27 pm

‘98 — “Jay, I am just trying to educate the ignorant.”

Better start with yourself then.

Liberal Chicks are UGLY

August 8th, 2012
4:28 pm

Is it common in liberal/ atheist society to comment with authority on books they never read? Is there a book club where you get together and discuss books you don’t read? How does this work anyway?

East Lake Ira

August 8th, 2012
4:28 pm

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
4:29 pm

Hiya Both!! Me and mine are dong fine!! (My sister is pregnant again! her son is not even a YEAR OLD!!)…..catholics!!

Hey Black guy! No music I wasn’t finished with my speech! I had about 2000000 more people to thank!

Catholics have never done anything bad ever!!!! Well, except for a few bombings….Besides that they are all wonderful. Terrorism comes in all shapes and sizes. And religions.

Yes – the I.R.A (totally catholic), comes to mind…..

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
4:29 pm

“All of us pick the parts of the Bible we like, and ignore the rest”

There’s many who do but not all.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
4:29 pm

L. C. Ugly — “Is it common in liberal/ atheist society to comment with authority on books they never read? Is there a book club where you get together and discuss books you don’t read? How does this work anyway?”

To what books are you referring?

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
4:30 pm

Ugly, make up your ADD mind.

Liberal Chicks are UGLY

August 8th, 2012
4:30 pm

“Seriously people:

Do you guys honestly believe this post is about which religious group is more murderous? Is this debate some kind of attempt to justify or legitimize the kind of behavior I described above?

These blog comments sadly illustrate the power that tribalism holds on the primitive human brain. It instinctively becomes us vs. them, they’re worse than we are. It also validates the necessity of protecting religious freedom and keeping state and church separate.”

This is what you do everyday hypocrite…Us(liberals) against them (conservatives)…Are you going to pretend your some kind of centrist guru? GTFO with this bull.

Atlas Shrugging

August 8th, 2012
4:30 pm

The point of Jay’s blog is the same every day..how much hate can he generate between DEM-wits and REP-uguants.

Erwin's cat

August 8th, 2012
4:30 pm

JAY
…These blog comments sadly illustrate the power that tribalism holds on the primitive human brain. It instinctively becomes us vs. them, they’re worse than we are…

Is this your first time here?

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
4:31 pm

Butch Cassidy,

Well now I thought it was understood that we were talking about 2012 and not the year 1200.

Now if we are going to engage in recriminations over what evil Christianity has done in the way of history then hell we’ld be here all week.

Class of '98

August 8th, 2012
4:31 pm

JamVet – “Look at what 71 and pogo and Scout among others have written here have written about blacks. You guys are crawling with intolerance and bigotry.”

Is my name 71 or pogo or Scout? What did I say about blacks? What did I say that was racist? For that matter, when did I say I am a Christian or even religious?

I would respect your opinion more if accusing me of racism wasn’t your FIRST resort.

And I find your prejudiced accusation that I am a white, arch-conservative male to be bigoted and HAAAAAAAAATEFUL.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
4:31 pm

BOTH suck

I think it’s not so much people here thinking those issues shouldn’t be addressed, it’s more they can’t address them because to do so would make it painfully obvious what their own prejudices and shortcomings are -

Butch Cassidy (I)

August 8th, 2012
4:31 pm

Recon 0311 2533 – “There’s many who do but not all.”

Then how do you explain all the barbecue joints in the South? Isn’t pork right up there with an eye for an eye?

jeff

August 8th, 2012
4:31 pm

Bernie 3:48
Hate and intolerance is the left’s favorite weapon. It’s all they got. If you don’t agree with them you are evil and hateful and must be shut down. Repeat on every issue. You are doing your side proud.

Jefferson

August 8th, 2012
4:32 pm

Crying about campaingn rhetoric, grow up — the party is just starting. PACs will kick you up, kick you down, kick you all around.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
4:32 pm

JamVet

Go next door and get you a huge belly laugh…..

It is good.
:-)

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
4:33 pm

Paul @ 4:31

Good point, hence the deflections

Butch Cassidy (I)

August 8th, 2012
4:33 pm

TD – “Well now I thought it was understood that we were talking about 2012 and not the year 1200.”

Of coursr it’s 2012. Just admit it. You saying that the cross posters was just one example of christions behving badly was just a little off the mark.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
4:34 pm

“There’s many who do but not all”

Nope, EVERY Christian does. No execeptions.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
4:35 pm

Liberal Chicks

Do you ever blog at Kyle’s place?

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
4:35 pm

“These blog comments sadly illustrate the power that tribalism holds on the primitive human brain.”

Ironical. This coming from the party that strives to divide people along racial and class lines.

Matti

August 8th, 2012
4:36 pm

I noted (but did not express) the irony in a conversation I had with a friend yesterday who is a seriously devout Roman Catholic. She said she respects the rights of others to practice whatever religion they choose, but that she personally does not care for the Muslim religion because….**wait for it**… they do not respect women. Inside, I was spitting coffee out of my nose. Outwardly, I nodded and smiled. “Uh huh…”

As for me, personally, I don’t care what religion you prefer. It’s your business, not mine. DON’T MAKE IT MINE. When you create chaos in my community, or extort or bribe our lawmakers to comply with your personal beliefs that interfere with MY rights as an American, or the rights of others, you’re making it my business. To you people (and you know who you are!): cut it the *bleep* out!!

getalife

August 8th, 2012
4:37 pm

It is a good thing they monitor these cons after mcvey but still miss some attacks.

We might think about deporting them.

Anyhoo, willie makes another mistake and is not stopping campaigning on a proven lie.

He thinks we are all ignorant and love being lied to.

You will continue to see his numbers drop.

Liberal Chicks are UGLY

August 8th, 2012
4:38 pm

As to who’s unamerican, that’s liberals….They hate America and are to stupid to know it.

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
4:38 pm

Nope, EVERY Christian does. No execeptions.

If you actually believe in the accuracy of your statement, you’ve managed to miss a lot.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
4:39 pm

“they do not respect women”

Maybe she should read this: “A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”

Erwin's cat

August 8th, 2012
4:39 pm

Matti – Are you saying Catholics and Muslims treat women the same?

Brosephus™

August 8th, 2012
4:39 pm

The devils in the detail. This is nothing more than another vote pander tactic to get Obama reelected.

Y’all Conservatives are funny!!!!! Who would have ever thought that GOP Governors would ask Obama for a waiver that would enable him to vote pander for his re-election.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

————————–

Doom

You can choose to defend Romney all you want, but don’t forget who sent the first shot over the bow. I’m guessing you don’t consider the edited Obama clips as lies. Romney was releasing campaign ads like that during the GOP primary before Obama spent a penny. However, keep defending your candidate. He sure needs as much defending as possible.

That cancer ad was in poor taste. As I said earlier, I’m not trying to defend that, so I don’t know why you choose to harp on that. What say ye about Romney’s press secretary’s response to that ad though?

“To that point, if people had been in Massachusetts, under Gov. Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care,”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/romney-team-moves-to-take-credit-for-romneycare/2012/08/08/c371e216-e17b-11e1-98e7-89d659f9c106_blog.html

Check the video around the 2 min mark… Seems that RomneyCare is the cure to healthcare after all. :lol:

Lord Help Us

August 8th, 2012
4:39 pm

Logical Chicks are not intended to be Ugly?

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
4:39 pm

Butch Cassidy,

In the historical context its way off the mark. But we don’t live in the year 1200. I’m talking about the here and now. I mean for God’s sake are we really factoring in the Crusades from 800 years ago into this debate? Geez. In the great scheme of things in the present Christian persecution of Muslims is virtually non-existent relative to Muslim persecution of Christians. And that is not in dispute.

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
4:40 pm

Doom: The Obama campaign lies have set new lows in degrees of shamelessness.

Oh really? Perhaps you haven’t heard ROMNEY’s ad claiming that Obama is bigoted towards WHITES? It was the most ignorant thing I’d ever heard. His mother, grandmother, and grandfather are WHITE, his sister and neices are HALF WHITE; but he’s bigoted against them and are trying to ‘take them out the picture”?

Now THAT’s a new low!

Hold – I’m going to try and find that ad for you on youtube.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
4:41 pm

L. C. Ugly — “As to who’s unamerican, that’s liberals….They hate America and are to stupid to know it.”

How TERRIBLE for you that you have to suffer the indignity of not having every single one of your countrymen agree with you on everything. :roll:

Erwin's cat

August 8th, 2012
4:41 pm

They didn’t burn that!

sorry couldn’t resist :)

Matti

August 8th, 2012
4:41 pm

Erwin’s cat: “Are you saying Catholics and Muslims treat women the same?”

Is that what you wish I were saying, so that you could then unleash personal attacks on me for something I did not say?

Paul

August 8th, 2012
4:41 pm

jeff 4:31

Were the nonMuslims in Tennessee and Missouri cited in the lead justified? Do their actions represent the principles for which this country stands?

(You can answer with two words, if you like)

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
4:41 pm

“If you actually believe in the accuracy of your statement, you’ve managed to miss a lot.”

Is your wife Christian? Does she keep her hair covered? Does she CUT her hair? Does she listen silently? Do you wear mixed fiber clothing? Do you give all you have to your priest or preacher to be distributed fairly among all in need?

Shall I go on? ALL Christians cherry-pick the Bible. ALL of us.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
4:42 pm

Brosephus — “I’m guessing you don’t consider the edited Obama clips as lies.”

I don’t think he does, given how frequently he refers to them or otherwise brings them up.

Jerome Horwitz

August 8th, 2012
4:42 pm

We do have freedom of religion and the ability to worship as we please. It’s in the Constitution which so many of us pledge to uphold.

The bickering on this blog reminds of my high school days – when we got into these childish arguements it was customary for one to spout “Yeah, but, you bl%^ me first”.

ty webb

August 8th, 2012
4:43 pm

can a brother get another “magic underwear” joke up in here?

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
4:43 pm

“Are you saying Catholics and Muslims treat women the same?”

I would say yes, they do. Some treat women well, others don’t. No difference.

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
4:43 pm

Libs, will blog on Kyle’s when Jay’s flat lines because he’s on vacation. They’ll say all kinds of nice things to Kyle praising his hospitality but then when they return it’s a different attitude.

Irish 65 Domer

August 8th, 2012
4:43 pm

Shockley:

You continually get it wrong.

It is G. W. Bush’s LACK of service in the Air National Guard. Technically desertion (more than 45 days AWOL during time of War) that was ignored by the regressionists.

josef

August 8th, 2012
4:44 pm

IMAM

“UPDATE: I should note that several Joplin-area churches have volunteered to host an an interfaith “iftar,” or Ramadan fast-breaking meal, for the congregation of the mosque destroyed Monday.”

No, sir, Imam. You should not note that. You should begin with that. You should also include that the local synagogue is involved with this community repudiation of such virulent hatred. It is long since time we quit highlighting the negative few and started giving the attention to those who do represent us and our nation at its best in who we truly are.

Erwin's cat

August 8th, 2012
4:44 pm

Matti -is that what you wish I were saying, so that you could then unleash personal attacks on me for something I did not say?

no..but what was it about her comment that caused this I was spitting coffee out of my nose. and why?

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
4:44 pm

Bro,

What edited tapes? If you are referring to Obama’s statement about “you didn’t build that somebody else did” I read and saw the entire version. The man was NOT taken out of context in that particular commercial. As a matter of fact they played the entire 2-3 minute segment on Faux news and I believe also in a 2nd Romney web ad to show that O was not taken out of context. Hard to argue that when the full segment was played several times over to show he was not taken out of context.

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
4:44 pm

Paul

August 8th, 2012
4:45 pm

ty webb

“can a brother get another “magic underwear” joke up in here?”

Only if one wants to come across as ignorant or bigoted… or both.

But if you go for it, don’t forget Sikhs and their turbans. That one’s timely, too -

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
4:46 pm

“Shall I go on? ALL Christians cherry-pick the Bible. ALL of us.”

Well now you’re taking the reply I made to another blogger and applying it to a different subject.

Brosephus™

August 8th, 2012
4:46 pm

JHM @ 4:42

There is that….

————————–

josef

Amen!!!

ty webb

August 8th, 2012
4:47 pm

paul,
yeah… that was kind of my point.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
4:48 pm

Recon — “They’ll say all kinds of nice things to Kyle praising his hospitality but then when they return it’s a different attitude.”

If you want to be treated nicely, then treat others nicely yourself. Isn’t that the Golden Rule or something? :)

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
4:48 pm

BOTH, hysterical. I knew it was coming, with him it was just a matter of time.

The kid is apparently utterly incapable of learning from his many mistakes.

‘98, tough love.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
4:48 pm

ty

Apologies for the personal inference. Didn’t sound like you the way I misread it.

But I get a split decision for a mea culpa, correct? One generalized ‘one’ and one more personal ‘you’ in my reply, right?

Brosephus™

August 8th, 2012
4:50 pm

Doom

Nope, there were campaign ads run by Romney’s folks long before that one. As I recall, when the “did not build that” ad came out, the response by many in the media was something like here he goes again with the edited quotes.

It says a lot about your character that you’re gonna defend lies by trying to say the other person is lying. That’s why I think this country needs to gut the election process and build a new one from scratch.

Michael

August 8th, 2012
4:50 pm

Since the US invasion of Iraq, the Christian population of Iraq has dropped to less than half of the pre-invasion level. Given its location Iraq has had one of the oldest Christian populations in the world. When the Muslim population heard the US president talk about another crusade, the Christians in Iraq knew they would be subject to attack, just like after the first crusades. So, they have exited in large numbers. It’s ironic that the invasion by a Christian nation caused the most attrition among the Christian population.
One of the primary destinations of Christians from Iraq has been Syria. Since Russia is majority Eastern Orthodox, it has expressed concern about the impact on Christians of the revolution taking place. It appears that Russia is more concerned about the safety of Christians in the middle east than the US is.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
4:50 pm

“Are you saying Catholics and Muslims treat women the same?”

I would say yes, they do. Some treat women well, others don’t. No difference.

Doggone,

If you believe that then your knowledge of Muslim men and culture is very limited because that is a truly jaw dropping statement. Last I saw Catholic men don’t forbid women to drive, don’t forbid them to work, they don’t engage in honor killings(Brazil notwithstanding), and Catholic men don’t beat women if they are out in public in the presence of a male who is not a relative. And Catholic men don’t regularly cut off the ears and noses and pour acid down the eyes of women who won’t marry them or who in some manner offend them.

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
4:50 pm

Kyle does treat bloggers nicely even those who’re infrequent visitors.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
4:51 pm

Jam

I think he is here now.

Check out the new “logic” and his style

Irish 65 Domer

August 8th, 2012
4:52 pm

Recon:

if you bother to find out the facts you will find that the Admin. only responded to requests for waivers by GOP governors.
Romney made the same request as Governor, as did Jeb Bush, Pawlenty,and other GOP flag carriers.

ty webb

August 8th, 2012
4:52 pm

Paul,
no problem…it’s just that if we’re all going to throw down over religion (which I believe is brought up way to much here in the comments, usually by the same people, and usually directed at one political persuasion), then I just think it fair that all faiths at least be offended in some way.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
4:53 pm

“We do have freedom of religion and the ability to worship as we please”

That’s not actually true. We have the right to BELIEVE as we please, we do not have the right to worship as we please – if our form of worship infringes on the rights of others. To take an extreme example: if your form of worhip involves human sacrifice you DO NOT have the right to follow that worship practice, even if the sacrificial victim is a willing sacrifice.

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

August 8th, 2012
4:54 pm

Fundamentalist Muslim = Fundamentalist Christians

Steve-USA "None of the Above"

August 8th, 2012
4:55 pm

After reading Jay’s “Mitt Romney’s plan to raise your taxes and cut his” earlier in the week. I read today from several sources what a load of BS the Tax Policy Center analysis of Romney’s tax plan turned out to be. Basically the TPC made fictional inputs to produce their data which even they admit. Jay calls the Tax Policy Center “Non-Partisan” and the WSJ calls them a “Liberal Think Tank”. Who does one believe?

People talk about losing faith in the Government, I think this occurred because we have lost faith in our press first. Where does one go to get news that isn’t slanted to the Left or Right for profit motives?

Frustrating.

Jerome Horwitz

August 8th, 2012
4:55 pm

No one disputes that Muslims are somehow above reproach. As with any culture there’s good and bad people. And yes some of them have committed despicable acts in the name of their religion.

What we’re talking about are the despicable acts of fellow Americans – you the good guys,the ones who honor their Constitution every day. They would never deny anyone their Contitutional rights.

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
4:55 pm

Doom – nothing to say about my post of Romney’s ad saying that Obama is bigoted against whites? Figures.

Then let me quote your own words back at ya:

The depths to which Democrats REPUBLICANS will sink and the sliminess with which they will cover themselves knows no bounds. Shameless.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
4:56 pm

“Last I saw Catholic men don’t forbid women to drive, don’t forbid them to work, they don’t engage in honor killings(Brazil notwithstanding), and Catholic men don’t beat women if they are out in public in the presence of a male who is not a relative. And Catholic men don’t regularly cut off the ears and noses and pour acid down the eyes of women who won’t marry them or who in some manner offend them.”

And neither do the VAST majority of Muslim men.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
4:56 pm

Brocephus,

You can cease with the attacks on my character. I didn’t belittle you by stating that it says a lot about your character by saying that you’re defending Obama’s despicable lies about Romney killing a woman via cancer. To tell you the truth I’ve not seen which Romney ads you refer to. Haven’t seen but a couple of them and apparently they didn’t leave much of an impression. If you could point out specifically which ads you are referring to then I would agree with you. On the welfare ad if it got 4 pinnochios then I would agree with you that its a misleading and dishonest ad and needs to be pulled. But I think you should follow your own advice and disavow Obama’s own dishonest ads- particularly ones as despicable as the one that asserts Romney’s responsibility for that woman’s death. And I believe it was you who started off first with the ranting about the dishonest ads.

Real Scootter

August 8th, 2012
4:56 pm

That last part was my words and should not have been in italics. My bad

Hey Bro,would you like for me to provide you with a link to help you with that problem? :grin:

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 8th, 2012
4:58 pm

Bro, one of Romney’s first ads to lie was editing Obama quoting McCain to make it look like Obama said that. And Romney basically said “tough” and kept the ad on his website even after being called on it.

Matti

August 8th, 2012
4:58 pm

Erwin’s cat,

The Catholic Church, like most religions, does NOT afford women the same level of respect and autonomy as men. I try to keep my feelings for religions separate from my feelings for people. Doggone is right: “some do, some don’t.” Respecting or disrespecting the women in your life is a personal choice. But when you see groups of people trying to control women’s behavior and choices — or belittle them for the same — they’re usually backing it up with their religious dogma, particularly when using the force of law or societal pressure to oppress others for their gender or orientation. You know, “God’s laws” yadda yadda. I’m open minded, though! When they elect a female Pope, I’ll re-think everything I ever thought about the Catholic Church.

jewcowboy

August 8th, 2012
4:58 pm

“You always know the mark of a coward. A coward hides behind Freedom. A brave person stands in front of Freedom and defends it for others” ~ Henry Rollins

And that is all I have to say about that.

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
4:58 pm

Irish,

Sorry but I believe that I do have the facts if you’re referring to the welfare reform work waiver, which of course means that I think you probably do not. So I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree

Orange 12

August 8th, 2012
4:59 pm

josef

August 8th, 2012
4:59 pm

THULSA

Look, ‘m not out to argue that at their worst, the hijakers of Islam have not perverted their faith and gone stark, raving mad. But that is not all Muslims nor all Muslim men, no more that that pack of loonies up in NC wanting to open concentration camps for those they deem unworthy and their followers here on the blog (more modest for the time being in their antipathetic segregation precepts) represent the Christian faith. And don’t delude yourself for one minute that our so called Christians of that ilk would do their dirt if they came to power politically. And before I get too uppity, so would the Haredi if they managed to take control in Israel…

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
4:59 pm

“When they elect a female Pope, I’ll re-think everything I ever thought about the Catholic Church”

Woman pope? Heck, I’d like to see them just have women PRIESTS.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
5:00 pm

jewcowboy!

Hi! It’s DDR’s birthday. Says she’s 25.

Didn’t say 25 ‘what’, though…

“And that is all I have to say about that.”

Would you like a chocolate?

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
5:02 pm

jcb — “You always know the mark of a coward. A coward hides behind Freedom. A brave person stands in front of Freedom and defends it for others” ~ Henry Rollins”

Just in case some posters don’t know who Henry Rollins is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_rollins

I first became aware of Rollins during his stint as lead singer for Black Flag.

Grits

August 8th, 2012
5:02 pm

Jsy – go back on vacation and stay there!!

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

August 8th, 2012
5:03 pm

Most dishonest ad Ive ever seen was the one Saxby Chambliss ran claiming Max Cleland was un American.

I mean the guy just left two legs and an arm in Vietnam while Saxby sat on his backside.

Talk about disgusting.

ODD OWL

August 8th, 2012
5:03 pm

Albert Einstein the great physicist, made a most profound statement way back when…. Einstein said; “The only thing in the world more dangerous than ignorance is arrogance.” Arrogance is ignorance matured… America is saturated with both of these intellectual and morally reprehensible shortcomings… Education is the only way we can eliminate this type of behavior… Yahweh-Jehovah and Allah are the same Deity and Je-sus is the Son of both of them… How many of you are aware of the fact that Albert Einstein was expelled from high school because he asked his teachers so many questions that they didn’t have any answers for… The teachers’ arrogant, pompous, egotistical little pride could very well have denied the world the genius of Einstein… We must rise above the hate…

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
5:03 pm

“And neither do the VAST majority of Muslim men.”

Wrong. The vast majority of Muslim men who make the laws in their countries are the very ones who make all these laws that treat women as 2nd class citizens and in some countries as little more than chattel. A woman here in the U.S. cannot fathom how shabbily she would be treated in most Muslim countries. And if you don’t think men in those countries commonly treat their wives as inferior to them in the marriage relationship then you need to do a little reading. What the man says goes for the most part and a woman’s opinion does not matter. I’m still aghast that you think generally speaking that muslim men treat their women as well as your average Catholic man and that there is no difference. That is a mind boggling statement.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
5:04 pm

Matti

August 8th, 2012
5:04 pm

“Catholic men don’t beat women if they are out in public in the presence of a male who is not a relative.”

Are you trying to sell us the tall tale that no Catholic man has ever beaten his wife for talking to somebody he thought she shouldn’t? Uh….. what you don’t know about domestic violence is a LOT! Women know: as long as we’re smaller and sweeter, we’re never truly safe. With men who believe GOD has appointed them to be our superiors… we’re even less safe. It is what it is, buddy.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
5:04 pm

“Jsy – go back on vacation and stay there!!”

I think we just met someone who visits people and proceeds to tell them they have filthy houses, are lousy cooks…and their hair style stinks too.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
5:05 pm

And doggone, get back to me when women can drive in Saudi Arabia or when the taliban allow women to work.

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
5:05 pm

DDR said 21!! not 25! If I’m gonna lie about my age, I’m going to go as young as possibly can go!

PS: TO All – No pedophile or Sandusky jokes please. Thank you.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
5:06 pm

“Wrong”

Nope, it is you who is wrong. But prejudiced people are like that. They always think the worst of their hated group is typical of that group. As you constantly prove here.

Erwin's cat

August 8th, 2012
5:07 pm

Matti – I’m not following your broad brush comparison

Is it Catholics suppress women the same as Muslims? or they use the same tactics for different levels of suppression ? or what?

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
5:07 pm

“And doggone, get back to me when women can drive in Saudi Arabia or when the taliban allow women to work”

As usual, picking out the worst and trying to make it typical of ALL Muslims. It isn’t.

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

August 8th, 2012
5:07 pm

One thing is for sure.

Obama will not allow him self to be “swift boated” like John Kerry.

Maybe the Republicans dont like a taste of their own medicine.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
5:07 pm

“When they elect a female Pope, I’ll re-think everything I ever thought about the Catholic Church”

Just wondering… does the same apply to Orthodox Jews?

Eastern Orthodox?

Muslims?

Shinto?

All Native American religions?

Just wonderin’

TaxPayer

August 8th, 2012
5:08 pm

This ain’t Saudi Arabia.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
5:08 pm

“Is it Catholics suppress women the same as Muslims?”

“Muslims” don’t. SOME Muslims do.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
5:08 pm

“Are you trying to sell us the tall tale that no Catholic man has ever beaten his wife for talking to somebody he thought she shouldn’t?”

Jesus H. Christ. No Matti. That’s not what I’m saying. I am saying generally speaking. If you take for example 10 million Muslim men throughout the Muslim world and compare them to 10 million Catholic men and compare how they on average treat women the difference in general is night and day. Sure. You will have some Catholic men who beat the hell out of their women and some Muslim men who adore and treat their wives very well. But overall its downright ridiculous to assert that on average that women in the 2 cultures are treated with the same level of respect and decency. For God’s sake don’t you realize that in several Muslim countries that women are nothing more than chattel or that they are generally 2nd class citizens even in modern, wealthy Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia. Good God don’t you freaking know that?

Jay

August 8th, 2012
5:08 pm

Steve, the TPC report is mathematically sound and accurate.

Romney says that his tax plan will do three things:

1. Cut personal tax rates across the board by 20 percent;
2. Make those rate reductions revenue-neutral;
3. Achieve that same level of revenue by eliminating tax deductions and other breaks.

When you look at the list of deductions that could be eliminated (I published them yesterday), it quickly becomes clear that most of them benefit the poor and middle class. There is simply no mathematical means of achieving Romney’s three stated goals without raising taxes on the middle class and cutting them for the wealthy.

If you have seen someone propose a means by which Romney could achieve those goals WITHOUT cutting taxes on the wealthy and raising them on others, please post it. Let’s see the numbers.

The problem is, those numbers do not exist.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
5:09 pm

“Maybe the Republicans dont like a taste of their own medicine.”

Maybe? I think it’s pretty much safe to say that is a GIVEN.

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

August 8th, 2012
5:09 pm

Women were just allowed to vote in this country 100 years ago.

Lets not act like women have never been discriminated against here. Up until the last 100 years women had almost no rights in this country.

Erwin's cat

August 8th, 2012
5:10 pm

Matti – Women know: as long as we’re smaller and sweeter, we’re never truly safe

that’s why people CCW…levels the playing field from force to negotiation

josef

August 8th, 2012
5:10 pm

DDR

Happy, happy and mazel tov!

And lying about your age? Do like Mama did. Tell everybody you’re ten years older than you are, and they’ll tell you how good you look for your age! :-)

BOTH

It IS five o’clock!

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
5:11 pm

Doom — “For God’s sake don’t you realize that in several Muslim countries that women are nothing more than chattel or that they are generally 2nd class citizens even in modern, wealthy Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia. Good God don’t you freaking know that?”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_under_Saddam_Hussein#Culture

Paul

August 8th, 2012
5:11 pm

What I’d get for DDR if I was with her today:

http://tinyurl.com/8mqaggf

I love double entendres –

Or in this case, double double entendres!

jewcowboy

August 8th, 2012
5:11 pm

Howdy Paul,

“Paul Would you like a chocolate?”

Naw…but if you have some Apple stock, I wouldn’t mind a piece of that. ;)

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
5:11 pm

Doom: And doggone, get back to me when women can drive in Saudi Arabia or when the taliban allow women to work.

Still dodging me I see. COWARD! As my grand used to say , Tell the truth and shame the Devil! The devil is betting on you to lie, so tell the truth and shame him back to hell.

Was the ad that was endorsed by Romney about President Obama being bigoted against whites, a reprhensible thing or NOT? Is it o.k. for a candidate to start a race war in order to get himself elected into office? Has the republicans SUNK SO LOW that they can’t win on THEIR RECORD so they must start disharmony and incite people to riot in order to get into and/or hold onto a POLITICAL OFFICE?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/03/obama-racism-super-pac-web-ad_n_1739800.html?utm_hp_ref=elections-2012

Matti

August 8th, 2012
5:12 pm

Thulsa,

Get back to us when a woman in Georgia can consult with her doctors in private and make her own medical decisions without the interference of corrupt, bumbleheaded, self-righteous legislators with no medical training whatsoever interfering via the force of law because they think it will get them political power points and extra votes from the church base. Awww heck. That’ll never happen! Get back to us when the same kinds of laws are imposed on your personal medical decisions.

Vast Right Wing Conspiracy

August 8th, 2012
5:12 pm

What we will find out here, as we pretty much always do, is that a Democrat did it.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
5:13 pm

“Muslims” don’t. SOME Muslims do.

Bullspit. Entire Muslim nations routinely treat women bad. In Saudi Arabia the wealthiest of Muslim nations women can’t even freaking drive. And if the decency police or whatever they are called catch a woman on the street in the company of a man who is not a male relative then they beat her right there in the open. If you don’t completely cover your body in Iran you are subject to an asskicking by their police. And you think these men treat women generally speaking as well as your average Catholic man does. What in the hell koolaid are ya’ll drinking?

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
5:13 pm

Hello Matti

Hope you are doing well

josef

August 8th, 2012
5:13 pm

Speaking of Catholics and women…at least they did allow women to own and dispose of property separate of men. Took the Anglo-Saxon Protestant men a long time to do that, and even then it was an Indian woman and benighted Mississippi that broke through THAT particular one…and why does the Protestant service include the father “giving away” the bride?

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
5:13 pm

Pass the cheesy, Since Obama never served in the Navy or for that matter the military, he has nothing to fear from those who served on Navy Swift Boats. Many may not vote for him but he has nothing to fear from them.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
5:15 pm

“Entire Muslim nations routinely treat women bad”

But not all, not even most. Taking the worst and trying to make it typical of is feared most is the tactic of someone afraid to look the truth in the face. As you constantly prove here.

jewcowboy

August 8th, 2012
5:15 pm

“Up until the last 100 years women had almost no rights in this country.”

Which cracks me up when I see pictures of women holding “We support traditional marriage” signs. You support traditional marriage, huh? Well then, shut your yap, get your pregnant behind back into the kitchen and fix dinner for your husband and his concubines.

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

August 8th, 2012
5:15 pm

Pass the cheesy, Since Obama never served in the Navy or for that matter the military, he has nothing to fear from those who served on Navy Swift Boats. Many may not vote for him but he has nothing to fear from them.

Swift Boat is a metaphor.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 8th, 2012
5:16 pm

Recon — “Since Obama never served in the Navy or for that matter the military, he has nothing to fear from those who served on Navy Swift Boats. Many may not vote for him but he has nothing to fear from them.”

I liked it when you misspelled Romney’s name there.

pogo

August 8th, 2012
5:16 pm

The American media wales about the persecution of the muslims in this country but at the same time denegrate the Christians of this country every chance they get. The “Great Chicken Sandwich Controversy” as Jay calls it, is a prime example of this. The CEO stated what he believed as a person and the Left and the media turned the hate machine on him. When was the last time you saw Christians stoning or shooting women and homo-sexuals? This goes on everyday in the name of Islam in the middle east. The liberals and the media in this country don’t know what true “right wing fundamentalism” even is. If they want to see it, visit Saudi Arabia or any number of the other islamic fundamentalist middle eastern countries. The vast majority of muslims are from the fundamentalist states. Those living in the US are a very, very small minority. And even with the small numbers we do have, the most horrific terroristic acts that have ever been inflicted upon us were executed by muslims living in this country with the help of the mullahs and mosques we do have here . So why should we be suspicious of them?

Matti

August 8th, 2012
5:17 pm

Thulsa: “But overall its downright ridiculous to assert that on average that women in the 2 cultures are treated with the same level of respect and decency.”

I agree, and I never asserted that.

My assertion what that **I** found it ironic that a devout (not just devout, but OCD devout) Catholic told me she didn’t like the other religion because they don’t respect women. If you do not find that ironic, then perhaps you don’t share my appreciation for the many subtle levels of irony. That being said, MY assertion is that ALL Y’ALL need to back YOUR religions up off me, now! It’s your business. Don’t make it mine, and we have no problem.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
5:17 pm

Matti,

And you let me know when a woman can make her own medical decisions and get an abortion in say Egypt or Iran where it happens to be illegal which I suspect may be the case in several Muslim countries?

Jay

August 8th, 2012
5:18 pm

If I may …. I don’t believe that Matti was arguing that the Catholic Church is equally repressive as many Islamic sects. Clearly it is not.

However, the church does ban women from serving as priests, claiming that they are biblically unqualified to do so. The Baptist Church follows a similar policy, citing Paul’s statements to the Corinthians that “the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man” and that “the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.”

Then there’s Paul’s letter to Timothy, stating that “Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Matti

August 8th, 2012
5:18 pm

Hello, They BOTH suck! :)

jewcowboy

August 8th, 2012
5:19 pm

pogo,

“When was the last time you saw Christians stoning or shooting women and homo-sexuals?”

Do your homework. It isn’t atheists committing most of the hate crimes in this nation.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
5:19 pm

Matti,

I won’t be handcuffing you and dragging you off to church. Matter of fact I don’t know anyone here who does that to women so I’m thinking you just may be safe from being dragged off to church.

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
5:19 pm

Where did that term “honor killings” come from?

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
5:19 pm

pogo

A “Chickfila” was burnt down. Granted several mayors said some stupid things, but to date there has been no legal action to stop Chickfila in those cities. I do hope those that vandalized a store were caught and are prosecuted, however I missed the store that was burned down, actual legal action taken to stop any new stores from opening, etc.

But do fill us all in with the facts

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
5:20 pm

“However, the church does ban women from serving as priests, claiming that they are biblically unqualified to do so.”

So how many female mullahs have you seen lately Jay?

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
5:20 pm

“several Muslim countries?”

Several is not all.

Class of '98

August 8th, 2012
5:20 pm

JamVet, I am confused. Well, I WAS confused. I didn’t understand what you meant by “tough love”, but have deduced that you think I am “logic” from the Wingfield blog.

I am not. You are wrong again. Every post I’ve ever made on this site has been under “Class of ‘98″. I’ve never been moderated, never had a post deleted.

Sorry to disappoint.

Erwin's cat

August 8th, 2012
5:20 pm

Matti Get back to us when a woman in Georgia can consult with her doctors in private and make her own medical decisions without the interference …

I don’t get it…you can get an abortion and birth control in GA …so educate me, what are you talking about?

barking frog

August 8th, 2012
5:21 pm

When the Jews, Christians,
and Muslims work out their
differences the rest of us are
screwed.

Steve-USA "None of the Above"

August 8th, 2012
5:21 pm

Jay@5:08 Here is a contrary view. My point was not say you were being intentionally inaccurate or that the version I have linked here is accurate but to say I am just frustrated in no longer feeling I have safe harbor when it comes to unbiased information on which to base decisions on.

In fairness your an opinion writer who does not hide the fact about his leaning. A damn good writer.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443792604577574910276629448.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

August 8th, 2012
5:22 pm

Again women have been / are discriminated against the whole world over. Its a universal thing.

The Western world is ahead of the Arab world on this.

But not by much.

Heck a women couldn’t even marry as she pleased in Alabama until the year 2000 ( If she was White she could not marry a black man )

It was repealed….. barely.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Alabama_Interracial_Marriage,_Amendment_2_%282000%29

Jay

August 8th, 2012
5:22 pm

The origin of “honor killings”?

Maybe it came from Deuteronomy, which preceded the Koran by a long time:

“Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.”

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
5:22 pm

Recon,

Honor killings is a common occurrence in Muslim nations as I’m sure you know but apparently some on here may not know that. To be fair it happens in Brazil also but rarely.

That Black Guy

August 8th, 2012
5:23 pm

DebbieDoRight – The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
4:29 pm
Hiya Both!! Me and mine are dong fine!! (My sister is pregnant again! her son is not even a YEAR OLD!!)…..catholics!!

Hey Black guy! No music I wasn’t finished with my speech! I had about 2000000 more people to thank!
_________________________________________________________________
DDR, that’s why I luv’s ya krazy lib azz.

You almost always make me laugh.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
5:23 pm

Damn Jay

You went all Deuteronomy on them………..

Was that the KVJ version?

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
5:24 pm

Jay,

So other than occasionally in Brazil are Christian honor killings a common occurrence here or in Western Europe? Again. Are we talking about 2000 years ago or 2012?

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
5:24 pm

My bad

The KJV not the KVJ

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
5:24 pm

“Then there’s Paul’s letter to Timothy, stating that “Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”

Well, that letter is attributed to Paul…it’s not really clear that he actually wrote it. He is, after all, the man who DID write: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus”

That is a level of equality that is very much at odds with the letter to Timothy.

barking frog

August 8th, 2012
5:25 pm

U.S. honor killings are called
manslaughter.

jewcowboy

August 8th, 2012
5:25 pm

pogo,

And that wonderful corporation whose COO (not CEO) was just using his 1st amendment rights? CFA’s donations to the Family Research Council helped FRC spend money lobbying Congress to not condemn Uganda’s “Kill the gays” bill.

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/chick-fil-a-profits-are-supporting-ugandas-kill-the-gays-bill/politics/2012/08/01/45430

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
5:26 pm

“I don’t get it…you can get an abortion and birth control in GA …so educate me, what are you talking about?’

I see I’m not the only one who was stumped by that bit of baseless hyperbole.

Bernie

August 8th, 2012
5:26 pm

Jay @ 4:18 pm – Jay welcome to the thinking in the SOUTH! :)

Its really not about the church or religion at all. If it were those issues you would have burning of the Mormon churches , Scientology, Jewish and Indian Temples as well.

Untold numbers of African American churches were burned and firebombed regularly throughout the south for decades and no one cared other than the members of that specific community and its church members.

These acts are typically about intimidation and creating an atmosphere of Fear and Terror to a specific community and its members. Its spark can be traced typically to highly charged political rhetoric spoken by a politician or a fervent supporter.
This hateful rhetoric is consented by and implied consent through silence by a political party,its Leaders and supporters. This silent consent provides an avenue for the mentally unstable among us to ACT on the larger segments behalf. Just as in the thinking of the coward in Wisconsin.

This is not a new and unrecognizable process that has not been seen before in America. Unfortunately, this time these ill timed events are directed at the Muslim community and they will have to bear and suffer the brunt of such acts.

Prior to the Iraq War, such acts of routine violence on religious physical structures was primarily an act that occurred in great frequency primarily in America and specifically in the South.

These acts will continue to occur over and over until We as a people, say to those who use this tactic of politically charged rhetoric as a weapon. This behavior will no longer be tolerated and has no place in our society.

Just as in societies long before us, PUBLIC SHAMING will be the only way to help prevent such acts from happening again. This kind of action is what contributed to the reduction of church burnings in the South years ago.

josef

August 8th, 2012
5:26 pm

Oh, get real. “Honor killings” are as old as the species.

Matti

August 8th, 2012
5:26 pm

barking frog nails it at 5:25. Further, it often happens despite a restraining order.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
5:27 pm

Uganda has a “kill the gays” bill? Bizarre. Sad too.

jewcowboy

August 8th, 2012
5:28 pm

They BOTH suck,

“The KJV not the KVJ”

Interesting fact about King James…a flaming mo.

http://etb-history-theology.blogspot.com/2012/03/king-james-was-gay.html

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
5:28 pm

Jay’s still wondering in the desert looking for the promised land. He’s still far away from reaching the New Testament.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
5:29 pm

they both suck,

Lesson learned. Never argue deuteronomy with Jay.

BTW some good selections earlier on MTB. Sad but seems like there are a lot of great musicians dying lately.

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
5:29 pm

BOTH, if so, the one trick pony will play his hand soon enough.

And Kyle rocks. Raging in that troll is merely more proof…

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
5:29 pm

“So how many female mullahs have you seen lately Jay?”

As many as there are female Catholic priests. Mullah dominated Islam is as male-centric as is Catholicism

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
5:30 pm

new testament? I dunno. I don’t think that’s jay’s book. Or josef’s. Oh. Wait a minute. I think josef converted to Mormonism yesterday if I remember correctly.

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
5:30 pm

Off to pick up my daughter. Sorry to leave Jay’s BFG session.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
5:31 pm

Jay’s 5:18

Don’t want to drag this out too much, but regarding the admonition in Corinthians regarding women: most of Paul’s letters were addressing several problems. Corinth saw problems in assimilating gentile and Jewish converts into the new religion. My understanding is Paul was a Pharisee – the devout of the devout, and pretty zealous. My opinion, he brought with him his Jewish cultural background and some of it affected the new faith – regarding women. So gentile women who were used to conducting their affairs in a particular way were one of the reasons for Paul’s letter – and his reliance on his understanding of the patriarchal priesthood.

Just interesting to me how culture and theology get intermingled.

Jay

August 8th, 2012
5:32 pm

“Once more into the breach, dear friends ….”

Thulsa, this post was not intended to touch off a debate about which faith has the more murderous past, or the more murderous passages in its holy book, or the more violent extremists. Those of any faith who use violence to advance their cause ought to be punished; it has no place here in America. We are tolerant of all faiths as long as they do not intrude on the rights and safety of others.

That is true of Muslims. It is equally true of those who burn Muslim synagogues.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
5:32 pm

Bernie

Do you know the meaning of irony? Yesterday you were on your pony (I would say high horse, but you were not that substantive) about the Mormon religion, whites and now “the thinking in the SOUTH”.

Open yours eyes man. You are more myopic and close minded as anyone on this board.

Time for some self reflection is past due for you.

Try it out sometimes. You are going to have to use your brain a little, so it will hurt at first, but I’m sure you are capable of getting there.

jewcowboy

August 8th, 2012
5:32 pm

“I think josef converted to Mormonism yesterday if I remember correctly.”

But wait, josef is still alive.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
5:33 pm

Jam

Check out the style of “Liberal Chicks”.

hahahahaha

Matti

August 8th, 2012
5:33 pm

“…so educate me, what are you talking about?”

Dang. I’m sorry. I thought it was your duty as citizens to educate yourselves, but then I realized that most folks here like to bidch and whine about how everything is the President’s fault, or the fault of (insert favorite ugly adjective) liberals, but can’t be bothered to follow the actions of their own Georgia General Assembly. It is my fervent wish that you pay closer attention next year. Thank you!

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
5:34 pm

“Honor killings is a common occurrence in Muslim nations as I’m sure you know but apparently some on here may not know that”

Ever heard of dueling? That is a form of honor killing and it’s not been so very long that it was still legal in this country.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
5:34 pm

TD

I was just messing around about Jay’s passage. It was humorous after the initial “honor killing” comment.

pogo

August 8th, 2012
5:35 pm

Under Obama, 100 million people in this country are now on Federal Welfare of some type (medicaid, foodstamps, WIC, etc). What is that ,about a third of our population? How long can that go on? And now, again thanks to Obama, they don’t even have to try to get a job to get welfare. All they have to do is sit and wait for the government to give them whatever the government wants to give them. We now have an entire population of people who have absolutely no pride and who no longer even want to make an attempt to get a job. They are ok with living with whatever “the government” gives them, as long as it is “free”.

Jay

August 8th, 2012
5:35 pm

“So how many female mullahs have you seen lately Jay?”

The same number of female Orthodox Jewish rabbis or female Catholic priests, I’d imagine.

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

August 8th, 2012
5:35 pm

Jay, I think Randy Travis deserves the Friday treatment this week!

Bet he was drinking tequila?

Mary Elizabeth

August 8th, 2012
5:35 pm

“This hateful rhetoric is consented by and implied consent through silence. . .”
————————————————————————————————–
Now seems to be the time for me to post the following:

To Jay and all,

I have cut back on my writings on this blog because I have realized that there is, at times, a “groupie” interpersonal dynamic present, which can foster an informal hierarchy among posters. My particular sensibilities do not blend with that particular dynamic. I’ll continue to post, however, when an idea especially moves me, which I want to express to the reading audience of this blog. That seems to be the wiser choice for me. I continue to appreciate the opportunity to do so.

Please allow me, in fairness, a final word in defense of my basic character, which has been falsely described on this blog. I regret if this post makes anyone uncomfortable, but it is right that my thoughts on this be made public. I have repeatedly been described as a so-called “plantation liberal” by Josef, which he has defined as: “Someone it doesn’t cost anything to be ‘concerned’ about ‘those’ people whoever those people may be, meanwhile keeping as much distance as possible between you and them,” and as “paternalism.”

Josef has a wide-range of knowledge in given areas, and he exhibits personal charm toward many, but he lacks wisdom, in my opinion. That means that not everything that he believes and writes will necessarily be the “truth,” and his comments about me have not been true.

What has concerned me about Josef’s comments, besides his perpetuating a false label of my character, has been that he has repeatedly described me as a one-dimensional, caricature of a person, whom he would then mock.

The three anecdotes, below, will demonstrate the depth of my personal commitment to those people I have encountered whom society has not always treated fairly, or equally:

As the only white person in a segregated school during the 1969 – 70 school year in south Georgia, I had experienced fear in teaching there – in that time and place – because of the previous actions of some white racists toward whites who had associated with blacks on an equal basis. But, my fears did not keep me from teaching in that school. On the last day of post planning, my erudite, African-American principal, Mr. Davis, pulled me aside to tell me something he thought was important for me to know. He said, “I want you to know that everyone in this school – the students, the teachers, the custodians, the lunchroom ladies, and myself – has noticed and appreciated that you do not ’see’ any of us in the same way that most white people do, even those who show compassion toward us. You actually ’see’ no differences between yourself and the rest of us in this school – and that has meant more to us than any thing else that you have accomplished here.”

Earlier that day, Mr. Davis had been publicly and harshly criticized by a white county office administrator for having been too slow to close his school for the year. Having seen the overt racism and condescension in that white administrator’s tone and eyes toward Mr. Davis, and having been completely disgusted by his insensitivity and bullying, I told that white official, in a resolute counterattack, that he was wrong in his assessment, and that it was I, not Mr. Davis, who had caused the school to be closed late because I was slow to turn in my paperwork. I told him that Mr. Davis, in fact, was helping me to finish my paperwork, without rebuking me.The white educational administrator was taken aback by my bold, reprimanding words to him (and probably by my aversion to his racism). After all, I also was white and, as a first year teacher, I was in an inferior position to his. Saying what I had said to a superior, in the tone in which I had expressed it, could have cost me plenty. But it didn’t cost me because I was simply right, and he knew it.

I thanked Mr. Davis for his words to me because he had had the insight to recognize the essential “truth” about me. Through his words, I am able, now, to illustrate to all who read this post that, in fact, my basic character is the very opposite of what a “paternalistic plantation liberal” represents. But, one would have to be an evolved person, with some degree of wisdom, to see that deeper truth within me and not to see me, shallowly, as a one-dimensional, caricature of a person, who lacks genuine, personal humanity. Egalitarianism, among all people, has been a value which I have embraced, passionately, all of my life. For one example, there were hundreds of evenings which I had stayed late in my schools, voluntarily and without compensation, in order to prepare materials for reading workshops with myriads of teachers, parents, and students who had the sensitivity to understand that I desired not only to teach them reading skills, but that I, also, desired to communicate to them, nonverbally, the intrinsic value of every person, made manifest through what I felt for – and gave to – each one, equally.

My best regards to all.

Good evening.

Bernie

August 8th, 2012
5:36 pm

They BOTH @ 5:32 pm – Your pointy HOOD is showing….!!

josef

August 8th, 2012
5:37 pm

IMAM

I see you’re a Jew and I’m a Mormon!

jewcowboy

Howdy-do! Not just me, but Paul, too! :-)

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
5:37 pm

Paul – “most of Paul’s letters were addressing several problems.”

You might check out John Dominic Crossan’s book “In Search of Paul” – it’s VERY interesting.

Jay

August 8th, 2012
5:38 pm

Oh, get real. “Honor killings” are as old as the species.

Yes they are. And sadly, they will probably continue in some form or other — even if not sanctioned by organized religion or national culture — as long as the species exists.

jewcowboy

August 8th, 2012
5:38 pm

Here is the universal truth…science doesn’t give a rat’s a** about your beliefs. So while some people are arguing over chicken and honor killings, others are putting remote vehicles on another planet.

barking frog

August 8th, 2012
5:38 pm

Mary Elizabeth
Welcome back !

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
5:39 pm

ME

Post as you see fit. As you know the rhetoric will fly, but that should not deter you if you have something to say.

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
5:39 pm

What we will find out here, as we pretty much always do, is that a Democrat did it.

Bro, that one is so stupid it deserves your pictogram.

jewcowboy

August 8th, 2012
5:40 pm

Howdy josef,

I’m gone for a while and everyone ends up Mormon. This place is going to hell. ;)

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
5:40 pm

“Ever heard of dueling? That is a form of honor killing and it’s not been so very long that it was still legal in this country.”

Doggone the scope of what we are talking about is honor killings as in the ritualistic murder of a woman by a man because she somehow offended the man’s “honor”.

Jay

August 8th, 2012
5:40 pm

Finn, that boy’s headed toward a hard end.

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
5:41 pm

Mary Elizabeth, count me as one who values your posts.

And the bottom line on any of our posts?

Every single person here has a scroll wheel or page down button…

Real Scootter

August 8th, 2012
5:41 pm

Thulsa Doom,

In case you haven’t figured it out already,you are beating a dead horse buddy!
You can’t win an arguement with the ladies here.Even if you tell them something that might make them think they are wrong they would never admit it anyway.Jus my 2 cents worth……

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
5:42 pm

Bernie

Go back into your bigoted hole that you came from.

Seeing that my mom is from Panama and her grandmother was black, they didn’t allow me in the klan but nice attempt to hide your bigotry.

Yes Bernie, you like to call out others, but it does not mask who and what you are.

Once you accept it, you will be able to deal with it in a more constructive manner than you have to date.

If you do not get help at Charter, please get help somewhere.

Class of '98

August 8th, 2012
5:42 pm

Bernie did you know that in 1920, there were THREE TIMES as many Klansmen in Michigan as there were in Mississippi??? I’m guessing you didn’t.

There is racism everywhere, but I get tired of northerners coming down here and telling us how racist our southern history is (compared to northern history). There have been famous race riots and mass lynchings in New York City, Boston and Chicago, just to name three.

Please spare us your holier-than-thou attitude, as if all northerners have always been white versions of Sojourner Truth.

josef

August 8th, 2012
5:42 pm

IMAM

Do Rabbi Sara Hurwitz ring a bell? Catch up, Bubba!

And them Kurds….?

http://judaism.about.com/od/womenrabbis/a/asenathbarzani.htm

rightwingextreme

August 8th, 2012
5:43 pm

Jay….just a clarification on your point. “However, the church does ban women from serving as priests, claiming that they are biblically unqualified to do so.”

The Bible, and not the church, lays out the qualilfications for the office of pastor. There is a difference. EX: The Catholic church bans priests from marrying. That is a church decision and not one supported by the Bible. Some branches of the Methodists, and even the liberal wing of the Baptist church allow women to be pastors. Again, these are positions allowed by the church and not the Bible.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
5:44 pm

Finn and Jay

If Randy Travis doesn’t get himself together he might be literally “Digging up Bones”.

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
5:44 pm

Thanks josef, Both and Paul!! I plan on getting as drunk as recon is right now to celebrate turning 21, (AGAIN!!)

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
5:46 pm

josef

August 8th, 2012
5:46 pm

CLass of 98

@ 5:42

AMEN…

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
5:46 pm

“Doggone the scope of what we are talking about is honor killings as in the ritualistic murder of a woman by a man because she somehow offended the man’s “honor”.”

And dueling is the killing of a man by someone whose honor was insulted. An honor killing by any other name…is still an honor killing.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
5:46 pm

DDR

Your welcome. Enjoy yourself and be safe

peace

ty webb

August 8th, 2012
5:47 pm

“Mary Elizabeth, count me as one who values your posts.”

obama sycophants of a feather…

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
5:49 pm

“You can’t win an arguement with the ladies here”

Someone who prefers that women be silent, I see.

Alphare

August 8th, 2012
5:49 pm

Jay, it’s very interesting you compared old testament to Koran when you were trying to make a point.

But Paul pointed out in the new testament the old laws (old testament) was nailed to the cross like Jesus was sacrificed, and thus a new faith (christian) was born.

In one hand, you are right to compare old testament to Koran, because they are comparable in some way. For example, they both says stoning to death an adulterous woman.

But here comes Jesus, saying you can stone the woman if you have no sins, which means you cannot stone her.

So Jay, you are right to compare Koran to old testament because they are similar. But you are totally wrong when you are trying to conclude Christian belief is similar to Muslim’s belief, because the old laws are dead like Christ died on the cross.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
5:50 pm

jewcowboy

“But wait, josef is still alive.”

Was on holiday for three weeks traveling across country. Overnighted in Omaha – went to a restaurant featured in Diners, Dive-ins and Drives. Read a piece that it was the site of the Mormon migration westwards – so we went over to their visitor center the next morning. Got to talking with a 20-something young lady from Utah doing her mission service. She mentioned her brother and his ‘returned missionary boyfriend.” I thought she’d mispoken and I said “excuse me?” and she repeated herself and kept on talking like it was the most normal thing in the world.

It’s the younger generation who often brings change, jewcowboy. It may be slow, it may be incremental, but it’s change nonetheless.

Bernie

August 8th, 2012
5:50 pm

They BOTH suck @ 5:42 pm – Thank-you! you have provided a reasonable explanation of why you are not informed of this true history.

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
5:50 pm

ty, grow up.

Bernie

August 8th, 2012
5:52 pm

Class of ‘98 @ 5:42 pm – Sometimes the The TRUTH is stranger than FICTION!

???????

August 8th, 2012
5:52 pm

Jay .. please help clarify .. when you stated “However, I was struck by the response of a mosque leader to the crosses and other expressions of opposition:”

What kind of response did you expect?
the way this was written, it seems like you expected an angry response instead of the response you were given. In a way .. aren’t you feeding into the stereotypes of muslims by your statement of being surprised by the

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
5:54 pm

Paul, great story!

And guess which city ranks number three in America in bars per capita?

Yep, lil old Omaha. Always ranked very high as one of the better places to live in the USA.

And I’d live there in a heartbeat. Except for those brutal winters!

Brosephus™

August 8th, 2012
5:54 pm

Doom @ 4:56

But I think you should follow your own advice and disavow Obama’s own dishonest ads- particularly ones as despicable as the one that asserts Romney’s responsibility for that woman’s death.

Dude, do you not even bother to read?? This is what I posted earlier…

@ 4:21 I’m not trying to defend Obama at all. I’m just tired of the Romneyites whining about Obama spreading lies when both campaigns have been doing the same damn thing.

@ 4:39 That cancer ad was in poor taste. As I said earlier, I’m not trying to defend that, so I don’t know why you choose to harp on that.

Why should I have to disavow something I’m not defending? This is a common tactic I see y’all conservatives do. You’re not going to paint my position for me and then try to make me defend what you “say” my position is. I’ll define and defend my position for myself.

Once again, just for you, both parties and their proxies are spreading lies, and that needs to change. As I also said, after the statement about your character, “That’s why I think this country needs to gut the election process and build a new one from scratch.” I’m not defending either group, contrary to what you think.

And I believe it was you who started off first with the ranting about the dishonest ads.

And you believe wrong. My response, which you incorrectly cast as starting off, was in response to Recon’s post.


Recon 0311 2533
August 8th, 2012
3:44 pm

I guess this topic and the previous are distractions from other news reports like the shameless anti Romney ads based on bold faced lies.

Whenever you choose to own up to your mea culpa, I readily accept your apology.

As to Romney’s first ad, Keep called it.

Posted Nov 22, 2011

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/11/mitt-romney-ad-misquotes-president-obama/

Mitt Romney’s inaugural TV ad of the 2012 campaign aired today in New Hampshire just as President Obama traveled to the state, but the ad immediately came under fire from Democrats and fact-checkers for incorrectly quoting Obama.

The White House, the Democratic National Committee and Obama’s re-election campaign accused the Romney campaign today of unfairly twisting the president’s words.

Politifact , which monitors the accuracy of campaign statements, gave Romney’s ad a “Pants on fire” rating.

josef

August 8th, 2012
5:54 pm

PAUL

I was talking to a Mormon colleague about gay stuff the other day. She made the point that Mormonism is an evolutionary faith and, given time, the Prophet will have a revelation just like with the inclusion of Blacks and drinking Pepsi!

getalife

August 8th, 2012
5:56 pm

The sad part is the karma for this hate and discrimination will be brought upon on the con’s grand children when they are the minority.

They are horrible Americans and grandparents.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
5:58 pm

Mary Elizabeth

Please continue here on a regular basis. I find your posts thought-provoking and worthwhile.

Doggone/GA

Thanks much for the book recommendation.

josef

Does this mean I have to give up my associations with Bosh and the pagan dancing in the moonlight ceremonies?

josef

August 8th, 2012
5:58 pm

Whoo-whee…Sue Ellen’s got her hoop skirts up and is ready to mud wressle! :-)

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 8th, 2012
5:59 pm

Finn, that boy’s headed toward a hard end.

Well, Randy Travis just proves that a jailbird will always be a jailbird. He went to prison and then got out and started singing. After making millions and millions of bucks he got a pardon from the NC guvner. Now he’s going back in the other direction. And that’s why we need to cut loose with the Death Penalty on just about every jailbird. The Death Penalty is the only real cure for crime I know.

And somebody needs to tell Mary Elizabeth she shouldn’t pay much attention to what josef says. The guy made up his mind to hate me a while ago and rips me once in a while with a pet name that wouldn’t be said in public if it was in English instead of Cherokee. I never saw anybody that knowed so much about so many things but can’t even control hisself. She’d be alot better off if she looked on what he says as the ravings of one of them idiot boys that sometimes just loses it.

josef

August 8th, 2012
5:59 pm

PAUL

Dunno…I’ll get with SLC and see…? :-)

TaxPayer

August 8th, 2012
6:00 pm

I believe the women here are smart enough to know better than to accept the argument posed by some cons that they should be thankful for the good life that they have here because they could be living in one of those countries where women are still treated like property. That has to be one of the most lame arguments a male con could present to any woman here in the USA.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
6:01 pm

josef

Stopped in Salt Lake City on the drive between the Grand Tetons and Bryce and Zion Canyons. Had lunch at temple square. Care to guess what was in the soda dispenser lineup?

Mountain Dew!

getalife

August 8th, 2012
6:01 pm

I had a couple of Mormon kids come to my door trying to recruit me.

I took it easy on the young Mormons and asked if they were beckers.

They laughed and left.

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

August 8th, 2012
6:02 pm

I had dismissed MASH after living through those final years of its tv run but I recently started watching the old ones again.

The other night they showed the “Adams Rib” episode where Hawkeye orders bbq ribs from Chicago. What a classic!

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
6:03 pm

“I believe the women here are smart enough to know better than to accept the argument posed by some cons that they should be thankful for the good life that they have here because they could be living in one of those countries where women are still treated like property”

We are. And it smacks just a bit to much of the “there,there little women” mindset…don’t you think?

Paul

August 8th, 2012
6:05 pm

JamVet

It looked like a real nice town. Saw a newspaper article that listed it as one of the best places to live, all things considered.

But as you pointed out, I don’t think they gave enough consideration to the winters.

The effects of the drought were heartbreaking to watch. Miles and miles of brown stalks.

josef

August 8th, 2012
6:06 pm

PAUL

Lotta U&I sugar in that concoction!

Paul

August 8th, 2012
6:07 pm

getalife

Beck’s set up shop near where I live. Understood he just had a big rally and thousands went to it.

Glad I was on holiday.

Real Scootter

August 8th, 2012
6:07 pm

Someone who prefers that women be silent, I see.

Not at all Doggone! I just know from experience that Doom may as well be banging his head agaist a brick wall. :lol:

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
6:09 pm

“I just know from experience that Doom may as well be banging his head agaist a brick wall”

Well you see…to “win” an argument, it’s neccessary to have a WINNING argument. He doesn’t have one.

getalife

August 8th, 2012
6:10 pm

Paul,

60,000 beckers are probably being monitored.

josef

August 8th, 2012
6:10 pm

getalife

Do you watch Cajun Justice? They had one that took me home for a ride…had to do with a pig that got hit by a pick-up truck, pig flew over dead in another feller’s yard and they were brawling over who it belonged to when the gendarmes had to come and settle it…won’t tell you the “decision,” but I’m still rolling on the floor… :-)

Brosephus™

August 8th, 2012
6:10 pm

But as you pointed out, I don’t think they gave enough consideration to the winters.

If you’re into skiing, that’s a bonus of living in SLC. You’re a hop, skip, and a jump away from Provo and other ski areas once the powder accumulates. I haven’t been there in the winter, but I imagine it can’t be much colder than Milwaukee in February.

Common Sense isn't very Common

August 8th, 2012
6:10 pm

Something odd about this.

If a Muslim had defended that mosque with a gun and killed the arsonist.

Which side would the far right come down on?

The right to defend your property (church) or the arsonist because they were (possibly) Christian?

:-) conundrum eh?

Paul

August 8th, 2012
6:11 pm

josef

Always liked the flavor – the orange tinge. Kept me awake on some of those miles of travel when the only thing on the radio were the farm reports and – get this, I kid you not – one woman reading the entire Dow Jones closing numbers…..

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
6:12 pm

josef: Speaking of Catholics and women…at least they did allow women to own and dispose of property separate of men. Took the Anglo-Saxon Protestant men a long time to do that, and even then it was an Indian woman and benighted Mississippi that broke through THAT particular one…and why does the Protestant service include the father “giving away” the bride?

Yeah those progressive catholics are a hoot! :lol: Seriously though in this country alone, the age of consent for a female, was in some states, as young as 11 years old until Margaret Sanger, (PPofA) fought to have the laws changed; and that was during the early 1800’s(?); and that was mostly for white girls only.

That reflected ideas that non-white races “matured earlier,” in part because of the environments in which they originated. In the U.S., those who opposed resetting the age of consent to 16 made similar arguments about African-Americans, Mexicans, and Italian immigrants. Australian legislators even claimed that white girls living in sub-tropical climates “ripened” into women earlier than those in Europe.

BTW — MEN were the main ones fighting to keep the age of consent below the age of 16.

The majority of these men were Christians.

I wonder what those good, god-fearing Christian men wanted to do with underaged little girls? :roll:

Real Scootter

August 8th, 2012
6:14 pm

Well you see…to “win” an argument, it’s neccessary to have a WINNING argument. He doesn’t have one.

And he never will! That was kinda my point. Oh,and thanks for proving it! :lol:

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
6:14 pm

Bro

SLC is a great place to snowboard and ski.

Park City, Snowbird, Brighton & Alta (but you can’t snowboard there, ski snobs) are all great.

Tundra Dude

August 8th, 2012
6:14 pm

someone wrote, in part:
But Paul pointed out in the new testament the old laws (old testament) was nailed to the cross like Jesus was sacrificed, and thus a new faith (christian) was born.

Oh, good……I ain’t missin’ nothin’……. Y’all are havin’ Bible study……(?)
As a heathen (Yankee) atheist, I’m outta here!
(crableg night at the casino)

josef

August 8th, 2012
6:15 pm

DDR

Read up on Sanger…she’s no hero of any kind…

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
6:16 pm

“I wonder what those good, god-fearing Christian men wanted to do with underaged little girls?”

Well, apart from any prurient interests…it was long thought that having sex with a virgin would cure venereal disease. And, sadly, that is still true in too many places today.

getalife

August 8th, 2012
6:16 pm

josef.

I watched it once and one family member accused the other of robbing his fishing traps. One of them grabbed his shotgun to go settle the score and was busted. Mostly feuds overland ownership but one found a big human bone fishing. Found out it was from an ole Indian burial ground so they returned it so they would not be cursed.

Matti

August 8th, 2012
6:17 pm

The BOTH suck,

Brighton is my FAVE for skiing!!!! Park City is fun to get all touristy in.

Middle of the Road

August 8th, 2012
6:18 pm

Very sad news about the mosque. One of my oldest friends goes by the name Alee and is a Sunni Muslim who looks the part. As a smoker he would take the occasional break outside our building and he felt that he had enjoyed a certain camaraderie with his fellow smokers. The days after 09/11 he started asking me to join him on his breaks even though I’m not a smoker. He started feeling very self-aware and uncomfortable as people were giving him stares and were generally shunning him. I was very disappointed with my fellow Americans during that time. Thankfully over time the problem slowly faded away.

Oh, in case you’re wondering, I’m a conservative Jew.

Moderate Line

August 8th, 2012
6:18 pm

For the record here is what Politifact has for both Romney and Obama telling the truth:
Tell the Truth
Romney 16%
Obama 23%
Tell the Truth or Mostly True
Romney 30%
Obama 46%

False or Pants on Fire
Romney 27%
Obama 17%

Now the percentages are not important because there is probably no criteria for determining randomness. But the fact that you can find this many false statements by both candidates is sad. Plus these are the statements that directed towards the other candidate in some cases.

In reality would you hire someone who makes false statements about the other person being hired in order to get a job. Probably not.

Until people hold their own party accountable this will always occur but when 92% of the population has already decided who they are going to vote for then the candidates are not held accountable.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
6:18 pm

“And he never will! That was kinda my point. Oh,and thanks for proving it!”

It’s more than a bit sad how hard some people fight to make others as fearful as they are. Had a similar conversation with a gun nut here not too long ago, and I swear by the time he gave up on me I was left with the feeling that he was close to tears because he couldn’t make me afraid enough to buy a gun.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
6:19 pm

Doggone,

Sorry ma’am but it was pretty clear that we were talking about a man killing a woman when we were talking about honor killings. Your sideshow about dueling is just a silly distraction that has not a damn thing to do with what we were talking about. Geez. Why you brought up some silliness about dueling that was completely irrelevant to the male/female honor killings we were talking about is a mystery.

Bernie

August 8th, 2012
6:20 pm

Mary Elizabeth @ 5:35 pm – I am sorry that you have had to suffer through such personal attacks from the likes of Josef. You must learn to ignore his ill timed antics. He, like quite a few of the other regulars here, thrive on personal attacks than through their ideas or thoughts. They read others comments and feel anger but through no fault of their own, they are unable to express those feelings of anger in their writing and it frustrates them even further. Like a petulant child they strike out in anger through name calling and other abusive language. This is what gets them through the day.

These are symptoms of an abused personality and somewhere in their lives this same action was used on them and they are only repeating it.

So, please do not take it personally, trust me you are not alone in your feelings of being victimized through such personal attacks.

For example yesterday, had one to accuse me of early drinking. What the poster did
not realize, his comments was direct reflection of his own life. An act he has observed and personally experienced in his family life. That subsequent behavior probably resulted in him being subject to being verbally abused over a long period of time.

My comments angered him and he then resorted of accusing me of early drinking.
Cause and effect!

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
6:20 pm

“I was very disappointed with my fellow Americans during that time. ”

but there were things that happened then to make you proud too. Like Christian and Jewish neighbors who sat up in shifts, day and night, to keep mosques from being attacked.

Matti

August 8th, 2012
6:20 pm

Doggone,

A loyal dog is better protection anyway.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
6:20 pm

Matti

Cool. Brighton and Snowbird are my two best.

Park City is good, but touristy as you mentioned. It is good when you ski early and want to party during the afternoon and evening.

Haven’t been to Alta in years because I board more than ski, but as I remember they have some great runs. Come to think about it, I haven’t been boarding out west in 3 yrs.

:-(

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
6:21 pm

Matti

Ever eat at the Red Iguana in downtown Salt Lake.

Mexican joint. It rocks

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
6:21 pm

“Why you brought up some silliness about dueling that was completely irrelevant to the male/female honor killings we were talking about is a mystery”

Because MY world it not as male-centric as yours. And a killing for honor is a killing for honor. The sex of the victim is of no consequence to the reason they were killed.

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
6:22 pm

Sooth – you can’t remember the last time you drove around drunk and naked? You mean you don’t remember when you and i……….ummm……..

Never mind……….

Oscar

August 8th, 2012
6:23 pm

Sounds like we have a lot of different answers to the question of who is an American. (Not who is the American)

Oscar

August 8th, 2012
6:24 pm

As to who is an American, I would say anyone born here. Unless we change the law, that’s it.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
6:24 pm

DDR @ 6:22

Damn, I am jealous. ;-)

Sooth: you da man :-)

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
6:24 pm

“A loyal dog is better protection anyway”

Well..that’s a nice sentiment, but my dogs are extremely loyal, but not at all protective. Very few whippets truly are. I know somone who trained a Whippet to guard her truck when she wasn’t in it and she ruined his temperament permanently. He was never trustworthy around anyone but her for the rest of her life. It’s just not in the nature of a Whippet to be a brave protector.

F. Sinkwich

August 8th, 2012
6:24 pm

“Clearly, we must prevent such dangerous sentiments from spreading and taking over the country.”

Gee, Jay, how we gonna do that?

Oh, I know, vote for O’bozo !!!

Got it.

Matti

August 8th, 2012
6:24 pm

BOTH,

YES, I did! You’re right: Yum! It’s beautiful out there. Awesome for spring-breaking if you’re not into frying on a beach, oiling up and reading whatever ridiculous book the “mom” crowd is reading that year. (ZZZZzzzzzZZZZ!) I love me some spring skiing and mountain gazing. (Couldn’t live there, though.)

Oscar

August 8th, 2012
6:25 pm

What do you want Americans to look and act like. Well, that’s a different question.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
6:26 pm

DDR 6:12

The more I think about it, the more it seems that for many, religious identification (pick any faith or religion) is more a matter of cultural or historical identification than it is about personal conversion to and living by, the teachings of the faith.

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
6:26 pm

For those with any interest, the PGA Championship — the 4th and final “major” of the year — begins tomorrow. It will be played on the beautiful Ocean Course right over there at Kiawah Island in South Carolina.

This one’s a real “biggie” and all of the “stars” will be there: Tiger, Phil, Rory, Furyk, Graeme, Dustin, Keegan, etc. You know they’ll be battling it out.

If you want to catch some of it on television, coverage begins at 1:00 pm (eastern) on TNT. If you don’t, you won’t have anything to talk about at the water cooler.

josef

August 8th, 2012
6:26 pm

middle of the road

I was living up in the Pacific Northwest when the Iran crisis took off. There was a lot of attack on the Iranian students in the various universities and colleges. I would go to the bus stop each morning to just be present with a group of Iranian women students in case. The odd thing about it was that our students were almost entirely Iranian Jews…

Conservative, eh? I was raised Reform and have tended as an adult toward Reconstructionist…

And the the differences?

An Orthodox Jew begins praying “Most glorious heavenly Cr-ator!”
A Conservative Jew begins praying “Dear L-rd!”
A Reform Jew begins with “To Wh-m it may concern:”
The Reconstructionist begins with “Occ-pant”

:-)

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
6:28 pm

“The more I think about it, the more it seems that for many, religious identification (pick any faith or religion) is more a matter of cultural or historical identification than it is about personal conversion to and living by, the teachings of the faith”

Of course it is. That’s one reason there’s always some level of shock when someone converts from one religion to another, especially it it’s in a totally different faith family. It goes against the “norm” of the tribe.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
6:29 pm

DDR

Sooth remembers.

He thought it was just a dream…….

But now he believes in miracles!

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
6:29 pm

josef – Sanger is cool with me. Besides the Tamp-on, birth control is the greatest invention from mankind. Birth control made women more free to be sexually agressive with their husbands and lovers once the fear of unwanted pregnancies was gone.

Well, not Catholic women……since……they….can’t….take birth….control……oh…..and republican women too………

DogGone – Yes, I read about that and its prevalence in places like South Africa. What’s the most shameful thing is the way the governments of these poor little girls are so slow to defend them.

This has gone on throughout history. A woman/girl gets raped and the “law” is unwilling to take up her case because rather than focusing strictly on the act, they made judgments about whether the appearance and behavior of a girl fit their notions of a victim. IOW she “asked” for it.

Oscar

August 8th, 2012
6:30 pm

The more I think about it, the more it seems that for many, religious identification (pick any faith or religion) is more a matter of cultural or historical identification than it is about personal conversion to and living by, the teachings of the faith

_____

I suppose information to answer that question is avaiblabe and easy to find, if anyone has the energy.
I suspect most people stay with the religion their parents had by a large margin.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
6:30 pm

Sooth

Hopefully Tiger makes a run, but he hasn’t been able to put 4 consistent days together during a major this year.

He has played well at other times. Whether he is in contention or not, it would be great to see a great match on Sunday when they head into the final 9 holes

josef

August 8th, 2012
6:30 pm

BOTH
Any comment? :-)

Adam

August 8th, 2012
6:30 pm

Thulsa: Romney’s plan does not raise taxes on the middle class and give money to the rich.

Politifact, FactCheck.org, Washington Post, and several others would beg to differ.

josef

August 8th, 2012
6:31 pm

DDR

Well, I guess if you can overlook her racial eugenics…

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
6:31 pm

“IOW she “asked” for it”

I think that’s just the excuse they use. Deep down is an undying belief that it’s the man’s right to take what he wants.

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
6:32 pm

” You mean you don’t remember when you and i……….ummm……..”

I shore remember you “shiftin’ them gears” with that shift lever! :-)

DebbieDoRight - The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism is Capitalists..

August 8th, 2012
6:32 pm

Paul: :lol: :lol:

Well folks, I’m out! It’s Miller Time!!!

Hey Sooth! Fire up that Chevy and let’s go a cruising!! All you need to bring is some Jack Daniels, A couple of good CDs and a smile!!

Night All!

Matti

August 8th, 2012
6:32 pm

Doggone @ 6:31,

Yep.

Real Scootter

August 8th, 2012
6:33 pm

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
6:18 pm

I may be a bit confused as usual Doggone.I think I’m getting your point though.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
6:34 pm

Bernie

Don’t be fooled. While ME seems to have been offended by one of the regulars, she isn’t going to buy into the bs you have been selling the last two days.

Keep selling it because it reveals who you are or at least attempting to portray yourself as on this blog.

As for ME, if she has been reading the last two days, a fan of yours…….. she will not be.

But do carry on.

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
6:34 pm

josef

Thanks

:-)

Religion, Politics and Greed

August 8th, 2012
6:36 pm

After blistering Vatican report, nuns gather to weigh response

American nuns are gathering in St. Louis, Mo., this week for their organization’s yearly national assembly, where they are expected to discuss the future of their relationship with the Vatican following scathing criticism of the nuns’ alleged lack of fidelity to Catholic teachings.
This spring, after a three-year investigation, the Vatican’s doctrinal watchdog issued a report questioning the organization’s loyalty to some Church teachings, including the nuns’ lack of outspokenness on issues such as gay marriage, abortion and contraception. Another concern voiced by the Vatican relates to conferences organized by the nuns featuring “a prevalence of certain radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith.”

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/07/13162177-after-blistering-vatican-report-nuns-gather-to-weigh-response?lite

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
6:38 pm

“I may be a bit confused as usual Doggone.I think I’m getting your point though”

Sometimes it’s neccessary to read what isn’t being said. To puzzle out the REAL background. It isn’t pure intellect that defines ALL members of group by the behaviors of the worst of that group. It’s fear.

Since rape has come up, it’s sort of in the same family. It has taken us DECADES to get across to law enforcement and the courts that rape is not about sex. It’s about the misuse of power.

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
6:39 pm

They BOTH: yeah, I’d like to see Tiger win it. He needs a major to “cement” his comeback.

josef

August 8th, 2012
6:42 pm

BOTH

There you go…feeding the trolls… :-)

Moderate Line

August 8th, 2012
6:44 pm

Bernie
August 8th, 2012
6:20 pm
You said: These are symptoms of an abused personality and somewhere in their lives this same
had one to accuse me of early drinking. What the poster did
not realize, his comments was direct reflection of his own life.

You are really no different than the people you are commenting on. You throw an insult at someone but when they do the same thing you say it is a reflection on their own like. Everything you say is a reflection of you. Rarely, is what you say a reflection of the subject you are talking about. Just because the other person did not make a snappy comeback like you did does not make you right and them wrong anymore than if they did make them right and you wrong. All you are doing is rationalizing by using ad hominem attacks in the first case and dismissing an ad hominem attack in the second.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
6:44 pm

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
6:46 pm

josef

I know, but didn’t want to let you down.

:-)

That dude is out there

josef

August 8th, 2012
6:50 pm

BOTH
Granddaddy always said that if you’re getting shot in the b*tt in both cheeks, it’s a good indication you just might be right! :-)

Real Scootter

August 8th, 2012
6:50 pm

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
6:38 pm

Wow! I never thought about it that way doggone.Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me on this matter.I always try to keep an open mind and learn something.

Paul

August 8th, 2012
6:52 pm

Religion Politics Greed

Interesting the American nuns see the Vatican as an ‘outside control’ entity. Sounds like they began to see themselves as a quasi-independent organization, free to pick and choose what they wanted to.

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
6:52 pm

???,

Struck by does not mean surprised. It means impressed. A subtle but significant difference…

Adam

August 8th, 2012
6:53 pm

Thulsa: Oh! Education by links I see. Well let’s see, yours is a blog. Hmm, tough for me to top that….

factcheck.org/2012/08/romneys-impossible-tax-promise/

Then there’s this:

www. politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/03/barack-obama/obama-romney-would-cut-millionaires-taxes/

Oh, and this:

www. washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/a-tough-new-obama-ad-that—-surprise—-is-accurate/2012/08/02/gJQAuigQSX_blog.html

Don’t suppose you have a whole bunch more people that look at the same thing and determine that Romney is NOT going to cut taxes on the rich and raise the for the poor, do you?

Adam

August 8th, 2012
6:54 pm

By the way, go ahead and try that line of “Well Romney hasn’t offered enough specifics for anyone to really know what he would do with taxes” line on me and see what happens.

JKL2

August 8th, 2012
6:55 pm

debbie- Birth control made women more free to be sexually agressive with their husbands and lovers once the fear of unwanted pregnancies was gone.

It’s also put the entire responsibility for birth control on the female, and has lead to the explosion of teen pregnancy and advent of babydaddies. End result being irresponsible males and the destruction of the nuclear family. While it is a great invention, I have serious doubts about it’s benefit to society.

Adam

August 8th, 2012
6:56 pm

Also Thulsa, I can claim the ENTIRE article you posted as bogus, because it incorrectly identified the Tax Policy Center as a liberal think tank. Calling a non-partisan outfit that is pretty even handed when it comes to tax policy “liberal” is nothing more than the standard 100% discount given to anything that doesn’t fit the conservative narrative. It’s like crying wolf at this point.

Adam

August 8th, 2012
7:03 pm

Thulsa: You remind me of this henchman when it comes to this issue (Hint: I’m the guy telling him to “lie down”):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OR2lKvPoZE

josef

August 8th, 2012
7:06 pm

Okay, somebody say something controversial…it’s hard to be a reactionary when there’s nothing to react to… :-)

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
7:07 pm

Adam and TD

Give this a try. Both of you go to the Wa Po and get all the articles that show Pinocchios for both candidates.

But only post the bad stuff for the other guy as if your candidate hadn’t been called out for just as much bs by the same news source.

That will make it “fair and balanced”……………..

They BOTH suck

August 8th, 2012
7:08 pm

josef

people are taking a break and eating

Between rounds if you will

Real Scootter

August 8th, 2012
7:09 pm

Okay, somebody say something controversial…it’s hard to be a reactionary when there’s nothing to react to…

If you don’t eat chicken samiches you just might be Gay! :lol:

josef

August 8th, 2012
7:10 pm

BOTH

Folks can’t blog and eat at the same time…ssshhheeesh…what ever happened to multi-tasking.

I told Unmentionable once during a set-to “you can’t do two things at one time, can you?” “I can slap you and smile…”

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
7:11 pm

“Okay, somebody say something controversial”

Ok…tea is the drink of the devil!

Real Scootter

August 8th, 2012
7:12 pm

people are taking a break and eating

And some are drinking ! yee haw

josef

August 8th, 2012
7:13 pm

SCOOTTER

I’ve posted it before, but as Unmentionable says, “Gay? I’m not even mildly amused!” :-)

Oscar

August 8th, 2012
7:14 pm

osef

August 8th, 2012
7:06 pm

______

A lot of people think that Americans are only people who look and/or act like white, Anglo Saxon protestants. That has been the majority view until the last fifty years when it has been erroding somewhat.
That’s the American way.

josef

August 8th, 2012
7:15 pm

DOGGONE

You would say that! I have to agree…as much as I love it, I can’t drink it…it gives me kidney stones! I can drink coffee by the quart, and no problem. A few glasses of ice tea, and there it comes. And believe me, that ain’t no fun a’tall…especially if you’re male….

Real Scootter

August 8th, 2012
7:15 pm

Ok…tea is the drink of the devil!

Only if it is unsweet!

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
7:18 pm

“as much as I love it, I can’t drink it”

And I can’t stand it, either hot or cold; sweet or not; flavored or not. If I’m just about dying of thirst I can JUST drink 3 swallows and then my throat closes up and no more will go down.

Struggle for Equality

August 8th, 2012
7:18 pm

America has been and remains the center of one of man’s greatest struggles for freedom and equality. It was the magnificent fight for the abolition of slavery, and today it is continued as the historic struggle for equality between men of all colors and races!

josef

August 8th, 2012
7:18 pm

OSCAR

One of my favorite stereotypes of Southerners is that we’re supposed to be WASPS….well over half of us ain’t all white, the ones that are are not Anglo Saxons, and those rew that are Anglo Saxon are not so much Protestants, but Anglican Catholics… :-)

Real Scootter

August 8th, 2012
7:18 pm

Oscar

August 8th, 2012
7:14 pm

I happen to be a WASP and I resemble that remark! How dare you! :lol:

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
7:20 pm

“One of my favorite stereotypes of Southerners is that we’re supposed to be WASPS”

Yeah, but be fair…Southerners buy into that stereotype as much as anyone.

josef

August 8th, 2012
7:21 pm

SCOOTTER

I’m a Southern heretic…I drink unsweetened ice tea (at least that’s my taste choice, even if I can’t drink it), can’t abide grits and don’t eat fried chicken…

josef

August 8th, 2012
7:22 pm

DOGGONE

Which is why I think it’s even funnier!

SCOOTTER

You ain’t a Celt… ?

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
7:22 pm

Adam,

I’ll get back to you in a little bit but for now I’m trying to not hurt myself laughing regarding your assertion that the tax policy center is not liberal. That is wayyyy too funny. Go look at their mission statement silly- social policy in the tax code and such. And their affiliation with the urban institute another liberal think tank. Gawd you are funny.

And btw Adam in regards to factcheck and politifact aren’t they both part of very liberal newspapers??? A simple yes or no will suffice sport. But I will get back to you shortly. I notice also that you didn’t address anything specific regarding his plan. No surprise there.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
7:23 pm

“Which is why I think it’s even funnier!”

There is that!

Bernie

August 8th, 2012
7:23 pm

Moderate Line @ 6:44 pm – You can go and sell CRAZY somewhere else, we are FULL here.

Erwin's cat

August 8th, 2012
7:24 pm

CONFEDERATE SOUTHERN VETERANS OF SONS

Oscar

August 8th, 2012
7:25 pm

josef

August 8th, 2012
7:18 pm

______

How much Scotch, Irish, Welsh, German and Cherokee can I have as part of my ancestory and still be a WASP.
My parents both claimed to be English, ignoring all that other mixed in stuff.

Oscar

August 8th, 2012
7:27 pm

josef

August 8th, 2012
7:21 pm

_

My co-workers and friends, born in Georgia, all frown at me when I order unsweet tea. And I feel guilty.

Brosephus™

August 8th, 2012
7:28 pm

Okay, somebody say something controversial…it’s hard to be a reactionary when there’s nothing to react to…

Your family tree is full of Yankees who made their money from Aetna back during the Southern War of Aggression.

:)

Erwin's cat

August 8th, 2012
7:30 pm

Real Scootter

August 8th, 2012
7:32 pm

You pegged me josef! I’m a Celt and come from a long line of drinkers! It’s a tough job but somebodys got to do it. :grin:

josef

August 8th, 2012
7:32 pm

OSCAR

Sorry, you can’t be White..too much Cherokee…you can’t be Anglo Saxon, too much Celt and German…Protestant? Now THAT you can be without a doubt…thou canst not protest too much! :-)

One of the things I find interesting in the Census returns…the only places in the United States where the majority of respondents listed their ancestry as simply “American” was in those counties populated by Appalachians…

So, who are the “real” Americans? Seems to be the Hillbillies…

getalife

August 8th, 2012
7:33 pm

I had no idea Sooth is a player..

josef

August 8th, 2012
7:33 pm

BROSEPHUS

There ya go! Plantation liberals they were! :-)

Real Scootter

August 8th, 2012
7:36 pm

Your family tree is full of Yankees who made their money from Aetna back during the Southern War of Aggression.

That ain’t contravercial.Thems fightin words!!!

G Mare

August 8th, 2012
7:36 pm

R, P, & G, thanks for bringing up the nun topic. Reuters is the only news site that I saw reporting on it.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
7:37 pm

“How much Scotch, Irish, Welsh, German and Cherokee can I have as part of my ancestory and still be a WASP”

good question. How about German and Scotch? That’s all I could find in my family tree.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
7:39 pm

“The report, however, does support Obama’s larger point that Romney’s plan would likely disproportionately benefit the wealthy.”

Well Adam this is already looking to be pretty easy. The factcheck statement says it supports Obama’s larger point that the plan would disproportionatley benefit the wealthy. Of course it benefits them because they are after all the ones who pay the taxes. Duh! The problem is that that is not what Obama said. Obama very loudly and very clearly stated that the Romney plan would be imposing taxes on the middle class to support the wealthy class. And hence the term Romneyhood. If he is going to have a tax cut across the board including for the middle class then how is it that the middle class is sending money to the wealthy class? Its nonsense. Even you can figure that out. If you would open your eyes that is.

“By the way, even the Tax Policy Center admits that “we do not score Governor Romney’s plan directly as certain components of his plan are not specified in sufficient detail.” But no matter, the study plows ahead to analyze features of the Romney plan that aren’t even in it.”

One other thing Adam which shows just how shoddy the reporting is from the politifact.

“A couple of months later, Romney was overheard telling donors that he would “probably eliminate” the mortgage-interest deduction for second homes for high-income taxpayers and possibly eliminate deductions for state income taxes and local property taxes.”

Soooooo. Politifact is using innuendo “Romney was overheard” in its analysis? Young Adam. Take a minute and scratch that little noggin for a minute and think about this. Politifact is using a “Romney was overheard” bit in its analysis? You gotta be kidding. You can’t see through this crap?

When you’re reduced to using bits like “Romney was overheard” you simply lose all credibility. Even you ought to be able to fathom that.

getalife

August 8th, 2012
7:41 pm

But I think I would remember riding around in a car drunk and naked with Debbie.

Brosephus™

August 8th, 2012
7:43 pm

EC

It’s an old history thing. Aetna’s been around for a long time.

————————–

josef

How’s this for controversial?

Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa), an outspoken critic of just about everything President Obama supports, is considering introducing a bill that would repeal everything Obama has signed into law.

King put forward this suggestion to an Iowa audience on Tuesday, when he also reiterated his threat to sue the Obama administration for its June decision not to deport younger illegal immigrants.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/242797-rep-king-mulling-bill-to-repeal-everything-obama-has-signed

I have a couple of questions based on this latest attempt at jackassery.

#1 Does he honestly think that Obama would sign a bill into law that would repeal everything that he’s signed?

#2 Does he honestly think the Senate would pass such a bill, placing that bill on Obama’s desk to sign?

#3 Does he honestly think that there’s enough votes in both houses to override a veto of such a bill?

and probably the one that’s really got me scratching my head:

#4 If/When Obama signs that bill, does it not repeal itself based on the legislation contained within, making it null, void, and completely useless?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Common Sense isn't very Common

August 8th, 2012
7:43 pm

controversial – REAL MEN HATE NASCAR :-)

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
7:43 pm

“I had no idea Sooth is a player.”

For the uniniated, what constitutes a “player?”

josef

August 8th, 2012
7:45 pm

BROSEPHUS

THAT’S rich! Especially # 4…logic ain’t his long suit, is it?

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
7:46 pm

The answer to your first 3 questions is: No – but he knows his base is dumb enough to fall for it

“#4 If/When Obama signs that bill, does it not repeal itself based on the legislation contained within, making it null, void, and completely useless?”

There’s actually an answer to that one. If the bill says “signed” that makes it effective only on bills signed in the past…before the present one. Of course, that would also mean it doesn’t apply to anything passed AFTER the “repeal everything” bill.

Common Sense isn't very Common

August 8th, 2012
7:47 pm

#4 If/When Obama signs that bill, does it not repeal itself based on the legislation contained within, making it null, void, and completely useless?
——————————————————————————-

Kinda like Rep. Steve King himself :-)

josef

August 8th, 2012
7:49 pm

DOGGONE
:-) There is that…

Adam

August 8th, 2012
7:51 pm

Thulsa: Of course it benefits them because they are after all the ones who pay the taxes

That is NOT why the plan benefits the wealthy and you KNOW that.

Obama very loudly and very clearly stated that the Romney plan would be imposing taxes on the middle class to support the wealthy class. And hence the term Romneyhood. If he is going to have a tax cut across the board including for the middle class then how is it that the middle class is sending money to the wealthy class?

The article answers you, but clearly you missed it. The thing is – it’s NOT POSSIBLE to cut taxes across the board while keeping it revenue neutral, without ALSO removing several tax CUTS that mostly middle class and poor people get.

Does that make sense or do I have to say it another way to EDUCATE you properly?

I’m not going to follow your Gish Gallup (look it up) and retreading of the same point in multiple ways. You are, quite simply, wrong. The Romney plan calls for eliminating tax deuctions and credits to make the plan revenue neutral, and also claims to cut tax RATES 20 percent across the board, which means it is mathematically impossible NOT to cut out the mortgage interest deduction and reach those goals. So either he is LYING abotu his plan, or his plan is real and he’s going to cut that deduction.

And YOU do not get to decide my cerdibility when you have clearly lost all claim to your own by making such ridiculous nonsense statements as the ones above, claiming yourself to be right when you KNOW you are wrong. You’re just willing to die on the hill at a last stand over EVERY. SINGLE. ARGUMENT.

It would be better for you in the long run if you would simply admit you were wrong and move on.

Real Scootter

August 8th, 2012
7:51 pm

But I think I would remember riding around in a car drunk and naked with Debbie.

Well Debbie did do Dallas and I dont think Ida told that brother!

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
7:51 pm

“There is that”

And if it says “signs” then it might or might not repeal iteself, but it would definitely only apply to anything signed AFTER the repeal bill.

I almost wish he WOULD present such a bill for a vote, just to see how it’s worded.

TaxPayer

August 8th, 2012
7:53 pm

In the immediate aftermath of the ad’s deployment, the Romney camp issued a relatively standard response, referring to the ad as dishonest and accusing the president and his allies of using such attacks to distract from economic issues. And nothing more might have come of this had Romney’s team stuck to that story.

But on Fox News this morning, Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul went “off-script,” and amid a larger declaration about the ad being despicable and some pushback on the facts of the ad, she offered this statement in Romney’s defense:

“To that point, if people had been in Massachusetts, under Governor Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care.”

Well, there is ^^^THAT^^^ little caveat.

getalife

August 8th, 2012
7:53 pm

“For the uniniated, what constitutes a “player?””

Riding around naked and drunk with Debbie qualifies you for player status but you blew it by not remembering :)

Adam

August 8th, 2012
7:54 pm

Thulsa: By the way, Romney earlier called the Tax Policy Center “Objective, Third-Party” when he praised their work on breaking down the effects of the Rick Perry Tax Plan. Now he, and you, say they are “liberal.”

You’re just crying wolf. They aren’t liberal, you just don’t like what they have to say THIS TIME.

josef

August 8th, 2012
7:54 pm

I wonder what the SCOTUS would have to say?

Adam

August 8th, 2012
7:56 pm

TaxPayer: Yeah I heard about that one. Romney sure knows how to run things! I mean, he hires such great representatives for his campaign. If you run a business, you have to know how to hire people and who to hire.

Heckuvajob, Romney!

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
7:57 pm

“They aren’t liberal, you just don’t like what they have to say THIS TIME.”

Adam – but that is the TEXTBOOK R definition of “liberal”!

Adam

August 8th, 2012
7:59 pm

Doggone: It’s more of a well-understood footnote, but yeah. Everyone who disagrees with a conservative is a liberal. Even if they were seen as conservative up until that point. Excommunication.

josef

August 8th, 2012
8:01 pm

ADAM

@ 7:59

And that works vice-versa…

Adam

August 8th, 2012
8:02 pm

It’s ok though, I’ve had a couple of weeks to argue with people who actually backed up their points, so I no longer take anyone seriously who absolutely insists they are right when they are clearly wrong, according to the facts. After all, if they were right, they would have more than just semantics, hair splitting, gish gallup (and other logical fallacies), and personal attacks. They would actually be able to back up their statements with more than just another person’s opinion, if they wish to dispute factual information.

Real Scootter

August 8th, 2012
8:02 pm

I wonder what the SCOTUS would have to say?

My daddy was a pistol and I am a son of a gun.Oh wait ,sorry you said SCOTUS :oops:

TaxPayer

August 8th, 2012
8:02 pm

…Romney was worried that the oligarchs might be tied to “illegal drug money, right-wing death squads, or left-wing terrorism,” Strachan later told a Boston Globe reporter, as quoted in the 2012 book “The Real Romney.” But, pressed for capital, Romney pushed his concerns aside and flew to Miami in mid-1984 to meet with the Salvadorans at a local bank…

Eh. What’s a little blood money to a greedy capitalist willing to throw sick people out on the street and under the bus for a buck.

Erwin's cat

August 8th, 2012
8:03 pm

Common – controversial – REAL MEN HATE NASCA

I love motorsports an rarely if ever watch NAPCAR….maybe when they are at the Glenn

Adam

August 8th, 2012
8:03 pm

josef: It does work vice-versa when people choose to engage in it. But you won’t catch me labeling everyone who disagrees with me as conservative. I am far more likely to say they are WRONG on the issue in question, and to back up my position with words and evidence (not that this applies to absolutely everything, especially when it’s completely opinion based).

Beth

August 8th, 2012
8:06 pm

Unlike Jay. I, and the police, have no idea of who burned those mosques and I have no need to slander “proud American patriots” in the midst of that lack of knowlege.
Jay on the other hand either has a message from God ( which would be REALLY disturbing for Jay) or he is talking out of his anal orifice yet again. Either way, slander is practially second nature for Jay.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
8:06 pm

“That is NOT why the plan benefits the wealthy and you KNOW that.”

Then please explain how or why the plan benefits the wealthy? My contention is that it benefits the wealthy because the top 20% of us pay 80-90% of the taxes. So. Obama stated that it came at the expense of the middle class. I’m still curious how that can be if they also get a 20% across the board cut. Please explain as Obama charged, how it is that the middle class will have to be sending money to the upper class as Obama charged. You know – that Romneyhood thing in reverse.

“The thing is – it’s NOT POSSIBLE to cut taxes across the board while keeping it revenue neutral, without ALSO removing several tax CUTS that mostly middle class and poor people get.”

Aaaaaah yeah. Hell yeah! This is where I annihilate Adam’s absurd argument. It is possible to cut taxes across the board first of all and raise revenue. History proves it- 4 times in fact where we cut marginal tax rates and tax revenues to the govt rose. Furthermore you speak of removing tax CUTS for mostly middle class and poor people. Please explain to me how you take away a tax cut to a poor person who doesn’t pay taxes to begin with. Not only does a poor person not pay taxes but is a net beneficiary of tax credits so is a negative tax recipient. So how do you take away this tax cut to someone who doesn’t pay taxes??? The Adam nonsense forthcoming is gonna be real interesting.

“and also claims to cut tax RATES 20 percent across the board, which means it is mathematically impossible NOT to cut out the mortgage interest deduction and reach those goals.”

Wrong on 2 counts. First of all the Romney campaign doesn’t specify exactly which deductions it will use to reach these goals. No campaign ever does. Secondly as I’ve already schooled you we have a minimum of 4 historical examples where we cut marginal tax rates and revenues went up- 1964, 1981, 1986, 2003. So what you claim is impossible has been proven WRONG by history.

Every major marginal rate income tax cut of the last 50 years—1964, 1981, 1986 and 2003—was followed by an unexpectedly large increase in tax revenues, a surge in taxes paid by the rich, and a more progressive tax code—i.e., the share of taxes paid by the richest 1% rose.

For example, from 1980 to 2007, three tax rate cuts brought the highest marginal tax rate to 35% from 70%. Congressional Budget Office data show that when the tax rate was 70%, the richest 1% paid 18% of all federal income taxes. With the rate down to 35% in 2008, the share of taxes paid by the rich doubled to 40%.

Sucks when historical fact has to take Adam to school along with the Doom himself.

Erwin's cat

August 8th, 2012
8:08 pm

Watchin’ this weeks Newsroom…it gets more entertaining ea week

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
8:10 pm

Adam,

Obama in his Romneyhood reference stated that Romney is going to take from the middle class and give to the wealthy class. All I’m asking is for you to prove it. Prove what Obama said is true and how its true that middle class taxes are going to be raised and given to the wealthy. You can do that right??? Still waiting on your proof…

Brosephus™

August 8th, 2012
8:11 pm

josef

I don’t think he has a suit at all. :)

————————-

NoCom

Exactly!!!!

————————-

Doggone

Like you, I’d just love to see that bill get introduced.

josef

August 8th, 2012
8:13 pm

Turning serious here for a moment…but for those who may want to participate…

http://www.atlantadunia.com/dunia/Events09/E2012/E2603.htm

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
8:13 pm

Jay

August 8th, 2012
8:14 pm

” It is possible to cut taxes across the board first of all and raise revenue. History proves it

… in which Thulsa calls upon the Magic Bunny to rescue him.

TaxPayer

August 8th, 2012
8:14 pm

Adam

August 8th, 2012
8:14 pm

Thulsa: Then please explain how or why the plan benefits the wealthy?

I did, and you are deliberately ignoring my explanation. Go back and read it.

Aaaaaah yeah. Hell yeah! This is where I annihilate Adam’s absurd argument. It is possible to cut taxes across the board first of all and raise revenue.

No it’s not. Immediate effects of lowering taxes without some offsets causes a dip in revenue. If you’re referring to the fact that more and more people enter to taxpaying pool, that happens ANYWAY, and tax payments come in anyway. Major tax rates dropping across the board, with no other changes, WILL decrease revenue, and no amount of your opinion on how decreasing taxes increases revenue will change that FACT. I will not be addressing the rest of the gish gallup on that paragraph, since it all stems from this INCORRECT belief.

First of all the Romney campaign doesn’t specify exactly which deductions it will use to reach these goals.

Irrelevant. What matters is that Romney set parameters that make it impossible for him to keep his promise without cutting the mortgage deduction, even if every other deduction is also cut. Can you dispute that with FACTS and NUMBERS, or are you just going to spout more OPINION?

Secondly as I’ve already schooled you we have a minimum of 4 historical examples where we cut marginal tax rates and revenues went up- 1964, 1981, 1986, 2003.

That doesn’t make your case. And you know what? Stay tuned because I’m going to prove it in a later post because it’s going to take a minute to pull together the numbers. And since the ENTIRE rest of your post stems from this incorrect belief, I will not be addressing the rest.

TaxPayer

August 8th, 2012
8:15 pm

in which Thulsa calls upon the Magic Bunny to rescue him.

I think he had to swith to magic bunnies because his ruby slippers cracked from overuse.

Steve-USA "None of the Above"

August 8th, 2012
8:16 pm

Mary Elizabeth@5:35

No need to say goodbye with a long winded speech about how wonderful you are. Just leave if that is your wish.

Oscar

August 8th, 2012
8:17 pm

#1 Does he honestly think that Obama would sign a bill into law that would repeal everything that he’s signed?

________

You could have stopped at “Does he think?”

And the answer would be No, not at all.

Jay

August 8th, 2012
8:20 pm

At best, even the Arthur Laffers of the world argue that tax cuts recover SOME — as in less than half — of the lost revenue. Furthermore, Romney claims not to rely on “dynamic scoring” to reach his revenue-neutral promise.

Finally, if the Reagan tax cuts produced MORE revenue, why was it necessary to pass repeated tax hikes during his presidency to try to keep the deficits at something close to manageable?

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:21 pm

Tax tables in-bedded within the article

They would be tables published by Uncle Sam, not a left or right leaning organization

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/19/joe-walsh/rep-joe-walsh-said-every-time-weve-cut-taxes-reven/

Corey

August 8th, 2012
8:22 pm

Class of ‘98

August 8th, 2012
3:37 pm

Class, I do not know if you are Christian or not, but if you are would you take kindly to someone who is ignorant about Christianity saying all Christians are snake handlers? How much do you know about Dubai? Hell, do you even know where Dubai is?

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:22 pm

On Saturday’s Cavuto on Business (8/4/12), Charles Gasparino wrongly said about the 1981 Reagan tax cuts: “Tax revenues went up after the Reagan tax cuts.” Guest host Charles Payne did not correct him, even after panelist Ben Stein tried to.

Ben Stein, a Republican, strenuously disagreed. “He raised taxes from ‘82 ‘til his last month in office.”

Gasparino said, “We can debate which came first, did the revenues increase because they raised taxes or did revenues increase because…there’s no definitive study.”

Stein stuck to his guns. “There was not a revenue increase… Charlie, this is well known”

Guest host Charles Payne stepped in to praise Reagan, Fox’s patron saint. “We do know that the nation went on a strong string of amazing economic prosperity year after year after year after year while Reagan cut taxes.”

Stein continued to argue,”That is not true, that is not true, that is simply not true.”

Gasparaino pretty much ignored Stein. He said, “The 80s were horrible, the 90s were horrible.”

Stein said,”The 80s were fine after the first couple of years. The first couple of years of Reagan were terrible.

”What do you want? He inherited all of Carter’s nonsense. …Interest rates were sky high,” Gasparino said.

”Volcker was the star. The star was Volcker,” Stein said.

In a detailed post with authoritative links and graphics, economicdataus.com lays out proof that the Reagan 1981 tax cuts decreased revenues over what they would’ve been.

Also, the 90s were not exactly horrible. Almost 22 million jobs were created during Clinton’s presidency – about 21 million more than during George W. Bush’s presidency.

Erwin's cat

August 8th, 2012
8:23 pm

squirrel!….

Common Sense isn't very Common

August 8th, 2012
8:24 pm

Josef – I ran across this the other day while walking around during my lunch hour.

BTW – I will be in Pittsburgh till next March LOL, another winter up north.

http://www.hmdb.org/Marker.asp?Marker=41047

:-)

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:24 pm

Not the one

August 8th, 2012
8:25 pm

Yes Islam is a religion a very very dangerous one. Its one that follows the Koran and the Koran says kill the infidel. They are all crazy and have stage war on christians. To wipe them off the earth. Don’t believe me study up on it. You can caress and hug them all you want but they are what they are.

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
8:25 pm

Well, ol’ Sooth’s gonna leave you now.

The Frauenkirche Dresden [Lutheran] “Church of Our Lady” was destroyed during the Allied bombing of Dresden.

After 60 years, the Church was rebuilt and consecrated on Reformation Sunday, October 31, 2005.

Here is one my favorite hymns that I’ll always remember from my childhood sung in the new church.

They are singing in German (which I’m not really strong in.) You can follow along by clicking “show more.”

Good night all. Sleep well.

Jay

August 8th, 2012
8:25 pm

As a rule of thumb, the more exuberantly Thulsa celebrates his own wonderfulness, the more likely it is that he is wrong.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:26 pm

Somebody is fibbing

A review of data from the White House Office of Management and Budget shows that tax revenues did not consistently increase after the Bush tax cuts went into effect.

In FY 2001, tax revenue in dollars was $1,991.1 billion. For FY 2002 – the first budget of the Bush administration, which went into effect after President George W. Bush signed tax cuts into law in June 2001 – revenue dropped to $1,853.1 billion.

Bush signed two more tax cuts into law over the next two years. In FY 2003, revenue dropped further, to $1,782.3 billion – about a 10-percent reduction from two years earlier.

This drop in tax revenue occurred even as economic activity – the nation’s GDP – was continually rising, according to Bureau of Economic Analysis data.

Revenues then increased for four years – from $1,880.1 billion in FY 2004 to $2,568 billion in FY 2007 – before sliding to $2,524 billion in FY 2008, and then dropping further to $2,105 billion in FY 2009 as the recession exploded.

Source Data: White House Office of Management and Budget – Historical Tables

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:27 pm

continued……….

As a percentage of gross domestic product, the amount of tax revenues as a part of the economy has also varied widely, though it is still less today than in FY2001, when it represented 19.5% of GDP. It has dipped from as low as 16.1% in FY2004, to as high as 18.5% in FY2007, before finishing out FY 2009 at 14.9% – its lowest level since 1950 (14.4%).

It is true when Sen. Sessions said spending has increased every year from FY2001 – the last year the government spent less than it took in.

In FY2001 spending was $1,862.8 billion; by FY2009 spending was at $3,517.7 billion – more than $1.4 billion more than what was collected in taxes.

Analysis by Citizens for Tax Justice claims that the Bush era tax cuts resulted in $1,918.9 billion in lower revenue from FY2001 through FY2009, and that the total cost if implementing the cuts (including interest payments on debt) was $2,141 billion.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:28 pm

Tommy Boy

August 8th, 2012
8:28 pm

Them darn muzleems are just un american! Y do they think they can jes move in har with their goats and multiple wives an git away wit it? Sides that ye caint even drawer a picture of their god mohamet without ‘em wantin to keel ya!

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:29 pm

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
8:29 pm

“No it’s not. Immediate effects of lowering taxes without some offsets causes a dip in revenue.”

I just provided you 4 historical examples of revenues rising and all you say is that it won’t? Hell I could probably tell you the sun will rise in the east tomorrow and you’ll probably dispute that too.

” If you’re referring to the fact that more and more people enter to taxpaying pool, that happens ANYWAY, and tax payments come in anyway.”

That’s a nonsensical statement. People also drop out of the taxpaying pool all the time. So what. Your point is a non point that makes no sense sir.

” Major tax rates dropping across the board, with no other changes, WILL decrease revenue, and no amount of your opinion on how decreasing taxes increases revenue will change that FACT.”

How many times do we have to go over this youngster. Its not an opinion. Its a proven FACT and I just provided 4 examples of marginal tax rate cuts where govt revenues increased. What is it about this historical fact that your mind can’t seem to understand?

” I will not be addressing the rest of the gish gallup on that paragraph, since it all stems from this INCORRECT belief.”

Nope. Historical FACTS are on my side. All you got is your gibberish.

First of all the Romney campaign doesn’t specify exactly which deductions it will use to reach these goals.- Doom

“Irrelevant. What matters is that Romney set parameters that make it impossible for him to keep his promise without cutting the mortgage deduction, even if every other deduction is also cut. Can you dispute that with FACTS and NUMBERS, or are you just going to spout more OPINION?”

Nope. That’s only your opinion that he set parameters that make it impossible. Not a FACT. Allow me to help you out with some more FACTS regarding those numbers and whether they work or don’t work.

“The Tax Policy Center’s claim that it’s impossible to make the numbers add up is also refuted by President Obama’s own Simpson-Bowles deficit commission report. The Romney plan of cutting the top tax rate to 28% and closing loopholes to pay for it is conceptually very close to what Simpson-Bowles recommended.”

“And here’s the kicker: Simpson-Bowles assumed that the top rate could be cut to 28%, loopholes could be closed, revenues as a share of GDP would rise to 20% and the deficit could be cut by close to $1.5 trillion. The difference is that the Romney plan caps tax revenues at about 18% of GDP so that taxes don’t have to rise on the middle class. If Mr. Romney’s numbers don’t add up, then neither do those in the bipartisan Simpson-Bowles plan that the media treat as the Holy Grail of deficit reduction.”

Secondly as I’ve already schooled you we have a minimum of 4 historical examples where we cut marginal tax rates and revenues went up- 1964, 1981, 1986, 2003.

“That doesn’t make your case. And you know what? Stay tuned because I’m going to prove it in a later post because it’s going to take a minute to pull together the numbers. And since the ENTIRE rest of your post stems from this incorrect belief, I will not be addressing the rest.”- Adam

Um. Yes. It does make my case. The fact of the matter is that Romney is counting on economic growth to raise revenue. Here’s some more schooling for you Adam.

The study’s claims also rest on the assumption that tax cutting doesn’t increase economic growth. The study’s authors expose their own bias on this point by asserting that “the effects of tax rate reductions are likely to be small or even negative” over 10 years.

It’s certainly true that not all tax cuts have the same economic impact. But nearly all economists save for the most partisan liberals agree that cutting tax rates at the margin has the most bang for the buck. So how can the Tax Policy Center claim that cutting tax rates to increase incentives to work and invest has a “negative” impact? Not even the Keynesian economists who gave us the failed stimulus plan argue that the effect of tax cuts is negative.

Harvard economist Dale Jorgenson recently testified before the Senate Finance Committee that “a tax reform similar to the Reagan effort of 1986″ would raise economic output over the long term “by $7 trillion in 2011 dollars.”

You can argue that Mr. Romney’s expectation of 4% GDP growth is too rosy, but the recent White House mid-session budget review predicts 4% growth in both 2014 and 2015 despite a huge tax increase next year. The Romney plan is far more realistic than that wish in the dark.

B

O

O

M

!

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:32 pm

Guess he shouldn’t have said all that

Bush-Appointed Federal Reserve Chair Bernanke: “I Don’t Think That As A General Rule Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves.” In his April 27, 2006, testimony before the Joint Economic Committee, Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke had the following exchange:

gm

August 8th, 2012
8:32 pm

We need to start deportation of scum bags, Rush Limbaugh, Michele Bachmann, Sean Hannity, these people are the the worst Americans ever.

What does it tell you about the idiots who follow loney tune Bachmann who accuse every muslim as being terroist of the muslim brother hood?

These bigots of Americans never mention our inside terrorist white males who are killing other Americans, in fact these bigots millionaires are cashing in on poor, middle class misinformed whites. these people are a disgrace to our nation””””

Josef

August 8th, 2012
8:32 pm

Common sense

Neat to have a marker on that….you may already know that Chaleston SC is the cradle of Reformed Judaism in America…

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:33 pm

SEN. KENT CONRAD (D-ND): Let me just, before I ask you directly what your view is, show you the historical record here, what we have seen since 2000 in terms of the real revenues of the country.

Real revenues in 2000 were over $2 trillion and then we had the massive tax cuts in 2001. We were told that that would generate more revenue; at least some made that claim.

We can see what happens in the real world. We didn’t get more revenue. And we had more large tax cuts in 2003. Again, we were told we’d get more revenue and, again, what we saw in the real world is it didn’t happen.

I’d ask you, what is your view? Do you believe that tax cuts pay for themselves?

PAULSON: Senator, no. As a general rule, I don’t believe that tax cuts pay for themselves.

But I have clearly seen — and I think some of those people you’ve quoted would say the same thing — I’ve seen that tax cuts change behavior. There’s no doubt.

And there’s no doubt, I can remember very clearly what it was like running a Wall Street firm in 2001. The bubble had burst. We were in a recession. We’d had the terrorist attack September 11th. And I watched the tax cuts add to consumer confidence, investor confidence, market confidence, CEO confidence, and I watched it change behavior. So there’s no doubt about that. [Senate Finance Committee hearing, 6/26/06, via Nexis, emphasis added]

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:33 pm

Treasury Secretary John Snow conceded Tuesday that the much-touted tax cuts for capital gains and dividend income don’t drive today’s strong economy. Asked by Knight Ridder if the tax reductions paid for themselves, Snow acknowledged that they don’t. [Knight-Ridder, 5/21/06, via Nexis]

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
8:34 pm

“At best, even the Arthur Laffers of the world argue that tax cuts recover SOME — as in less than half — of the lost revenue. Furthermore, Romney claims not to rely on “dynamic scoring” to reach his revenue-neutral promise.”

Misleading again Jay. They claim that in the immediate short term but in the longer term revenues did rise.

“Finally, if the Reagan tax cuts produced MORE revenue, why was it necessary to pass repeated tax hikes during his presidency to try to keep the deficits at something close to manageable?”

Easy Jay. Because spending increased so much when the Dems saw all that money come flowing in.

Jay calls on the magic bunny. Funny. What’s even funnier is that Jay provided no evidence to dispute the claim that revenues rose after these tax cuts. Why? Because he can’t. He can only lob insults. You’re as full of it as Adam is.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
8:34 pm

“Yes Islam is a religion a very very dangerous one. Its one that follows the Koran and the Koran says kill the infidel”

Qur’an 2:256: “There is no compulsion in religion.”

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:34 pm

Bush CEA Chairman Lazear: “As A General Rule, We Do Not Think Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves.” During September 2006 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee, then-Council of Economic Advisers chairman Edward Lazear said:

Jay

August 8th, 2012
8:35 pm

“B

O

O

M

!”

I rest my case.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:35 pm

Bush Economic Adviser Samwick: “Tax Cuts Have Not Fueled Record Revenues.” In a January 2007 blog post titled, “New Year’s Plea,” Andrew Samwick, former chief economist for George W. Bush’s Council on Economic Advisers, wrote:

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:36 pm

“Federal revenue is lower today than it would have been without the tax cuts. There’s really no dispute among economists about that,” said Alan D. Viard, a former Bush White House economist now at the nonpartisan American Enterprise Institute. “It’s logically possible” that a tax cut could spur sufficient economic growth to pay for itself, Viard said. “But there’s no evidence that these tax cuts would come anywhere close to that.” [The Washington Post, 10/17/06]

HOLY MOLY

Common Sense isn't very Common

August 8th, 2012
8:36 pm

Them damn Charlestonians done beat the Pittsburgers eh :-)

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:36 pm

Bush Treasury Official Carroll: “We Do Not Think Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves.” The Post further reported:

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:37 pm

While Mr. Laffer insists that tax revenue will rise when tax rates are cut, other supply-siders are less categorical. Martin Feldstein, a Harvard economist who was the first chairman of President Reagan’s Council of Economic Advisers and now supports Senator McCain, estimates that a 10 percent tax cut would in fact reduce tax revenue — but only by 3 to 5 percent.

“It is not that you get more revenue by lowering tax rates, it is that you don’t lose as much,” he said. [The New York Times, 3/26/08]

Adam

August 8th, 2012
8:37 pm

Thulsa: Here we go:

First, the reason tax receipts grow year by year with no change is because of more people entering the taxpaying pool. So the proper measurement of the effect of a tax policy is to see how it compares with the growth rate over the previous years.

The tax policy that went into effect in 1964 would have been reflected in the immediate year following, 1965. If you are correct, then the growth rate should equal or be better than the growth rate over the previous years. So let’s take a look.

Tax receipts by year, in thousands:
1961 94.4
1962 99.7 (+5.3)
1963 106.6 (+6.9)
1964 112.6 (+6.0)
1965 116.8 (+4.2)

Looks like the rate of increase was lower than all three of the previous years, even if averaged.

Now let’s try 1981:
1977 355.6
1978 399.6 (+44)
1979 463.3 (+63.7)
1980 517.1 (+53.8)
1981 599.3 (+82.2)
1982 617.8 (+18.5)

Oof! Not looking good for Doomy! Let’s continue for 1986:

1983 600.6
1984 666.4 (+65.8)
1985 734.0 (+67.6)
1986 769.2 (+35.2)
1987 854.3 (+85.1)

Hmm, looks like point 1 (out of 4) for Doomy! Clearly the Tax Reform Act of 1986 requires some investigation compared to the other ones you mentioned. Now let’s go to 2003:

2000 2,025.2
2001 1,991.1 (-34.1)
2002 1,853.1 (-138)
2003 1,782.3 (-70.8)
2004 1,880.1 (+97.8)

Now THAT is impressive! I wonder what happened around 2000-2001 to cause such a dip that required correction in 2003?

See? I’m man enough to at least admit that you were half right. :)

Now, does this make your case that we cut marginal tax rates and that always increases revenue? Well, with only 2 out of four examples actually working, I would say there is likely some OTHER reason that revenue went up higher after the adjustment. There is something more to these adjustments and economics in both periods that would explain an increase after a tax cut on marginal rates…. of course if you look at the Tax Reform Act of 1986, the BOTTOM marginal rate was RAISED from 11% to 15%. So it wasn’t exactly an across the board cut. As for the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, let’s take a look at that.

In 2001, the tax rates were all brought down. We can see from the above that was a net receipt REDUCER. But after the 2003 adjustment, revenue started going back up, so what happened?

Well, all those new tax brackets were readjusted to include more people:

For Single filers:

up to $6,000 10% CHANGED TO up to $7,000 10%
$6,000 – $27,950 15% CHANGED TO $7,000 – $28,400 15%
$27,950 – $67,700 27% CHANGED TO $28,400 – $68,800 25%
$67,700 – $141,250 30% CHANGED TO $68,800 – $143,500 28%
$141,250 – $307,050 35% CHANGED TO $143,500 – $311,950 33%
over $307,050 38.6% CHANGED TO over $311,950 35%

So really, the tax “cuts” of 2003 just “broadened the base” when it came to marginal tax rates.

So there might be something to making tax adjustments to increase revenue, but the answer ain’t lowering all the marginal tax rates.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:37 pm

* Feldstein In 1986: “Hyperbole” That Reagan Tax Cut “Would Actually Increase Tax Revenue.” In a 1986 paper, Feldstein wrote:

The “new” supply siders were much more extravagant in their claims. They projected rapid growth, dramatic increases in tax revenue, a sharp rise in saving, and a relatively painless reduction in inflation. The height of supply side hyperbole was the “Laffer curve” proposition that the tax cut would actually increase tax revenue because it would unleash an enormously depressed supply of effort.

[...]

I have no doubt that the loose talk of the supply side extremists gave fundamentally good policies a bad name and led to quantitative mistakes that not only contributed to subsequent budget deficits but that also made it more difficult to modify policy when those deficits became apparent. [Supply Side Economics: Old Truths And New Claims, January 1986]

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
8:38 pm

To whatever deity one believes in, I thank him/her that I am not Not the one.

Going through life like that must truly suck…

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:38 pm

Conservative Economist Holtz-Eakin: “No Serious Research Evidence” Suggests Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves.” During a 2010 interview, American Action Forum president Douglas Holtz-Eakin, formerly Congressional Budget Office director and an adviser to the McCain 2008 presidential campaign, said:

I have never been in the camp that believes that quote ‘tax cuts pay for themselves.’ There is no serious research evidence to suggest that. The work we’ve done on what would happen if you were to sort of raise or lower taxes suggest about a 20 to 30 percent offset, depending on how you do it. And I think that’s in the mainstream of the thought. [Think Progress, 8/5/10, emphasis in original]

Adam

August 8th, 2012
8:38 pm

Jay: As a rule of thumb, the more exuberantly Thulsa celebrates his own wonderfulness, the more likely it is that he is wrong.

Yup. Especially that last bit responding to my first of two parts.

Adam

August 8th, 2012
8:39 pm

I have an engagement to go to, but I trust you’ll look over the data, examine it, and determine where the flaws in your arguments are, right Thulsa? ;)

I am going to be laughing about your nonsense ALL NIGHT.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:39 pm

back, back, back, back, back……… It is out of here

Bartlett: Revenue Has Been Historically Low Because “Taxes Were Cut In 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2006.” In a July 26, 2011, New York Times blog post, Bruce Bartlett, former policy adviser to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, wrote:

In a previous post, I noted that federal taxes as a share of gross domestic product were at their lowest level in generations. The Congressional Budget Office expects revenue to be just 14.8 percent of G.D.P. this year; the last year it was lower was 1950, when revenue amounted to 14.4 percent of G.D.P.

But revenue has been below 15 percent of G.D.P. since 2009, and the last time we had three years in a row when revenue as a share of G.D.P. was that low was 1941 to 1943.

Revenue has averaged 18 percent of G.D.P. since 1970 and a little more than that in the postwar era. At a similar stage in previous business cycles, two years past the trough, revenue was considerably higher: 18 percent of G.D.P. in 1977 after the 1973-75 recession; 17.3 percent of G.D.P. in 1984 after the 1981-82 recession, and 17.5 percent of G.D.P. in 1993 after the 1990-91 recession. Revenue was markedly lower, however, at this point after the 2001 recession and was just 16.2 percent of G.D.P. in 2003.

The reason, of course, is that taxes were cut in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2006. [The New York Times, 7/26/11]

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:41 pm

oooopssssssssssssss……….. All these people seem to be Republican and have worked for Republican Administrations. Yet they still believe.

If there’s one thing that Republican politicians agree on, it’s that slashing taxes brings the government more money. “You cut taxes, and the tax revenues increase,” President Bush said in a speech last year. Keeping taxes low, Vice President Dick Cheney explained in a recent interview, “does produce more revenue for the Federal Government.” Presidential candidate John McCain declared in March that “tax cuts … as we all know, increase revenues.” His rival Rudy Giuliani couldn’t agree more. “I know that reducing taxes produces more revenues,” he intones in a new TV ad.

If there’s one thing that economists agree on, it’s that these claims are false. We’re not talking just ivory-tower lefties. Virtually every economics Ph.D. who has worked in a prominent role in the Bush Administration acknowledges that the tax cuts enacted during the past six years have not paid for themselves–and were never intended to. Harvard professor Greg Mankiw, chairman of Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers from 2003 to 2005, even devotes a section of his best-selling economics textbook to debunking the claim that tax cuts increase revenues. [Time, 12/6/07]

TaxPayer

August 8th, 2012
8:43 pm

Any predictions on when the unemployment rate will hit 2.8%. Or is time for everyone to put on their ruby red slippers and click in perfect unison.

getalife

August 8th, 2012
8:43 pm

When has doomy been right?

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
8:48 pm

Let me guess

Thulsa Doom will ignore the numbers and all the information from those who worked for Republican Administrations.

He will post some numbers from a conservative think tank. Take them out of context and say BOOM

:-)

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
8:53 pm

“When has doomy been right?”

You might have to ask him. ;-)

saywhat?

August 8th, 2012
8:54 pm

Jay

August 8th, 2012
8:25 pm
As a rule of thumb, the more exuberantly Thulsa celebrates his own wonderfulness, the more likely it is that he is wrong.
____________________________________________________________
But Thulsa is continuously celebrating his own wonderfulness, more exuberantly in practically every post……which would mean…..uh-ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Perhaps thulsa could do the George Costanza opposite thing and be the smartest most knowledgeable guy on jay’s blog! Until then, oh well.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
8:58 pm

uh oh,

I hate to blast with info from your own article.

“There was a small dip in 1983, after President Ronald Reagan signed off on a tax cut in 1981, though tax revenues increased the next year and all through the 1980s.”

What was that??? Tax revenues increased the next year and all through out the 80s. Read that again genius.

” More significantly, income tax revenues fell in 2001, 2002 and 2003, as President George W. Bush successfully pursued tax cuts.”

If you study those tax cuts you will see that revenue growth took off in 03 “after the tax cuts were accelerated and fully realized”. Is there something about this you don’t understand?

We contacted Walsh’s office, and his staff told us that the Bush tax cuts didn’t reach their full impact until 2003 (when the top rate decreased to 35 percent, where it now stands), and that tax revenues increased after that.

“The pickup in economic growth, and the strong growth in revenues, coincides fairly neatly with the 2003 tax cut,” said spokesperson Elizabeth Lauton via e-mail.

Yep. The data bears it out.

Thanks for providing the article. Curiously though the article leaves out the effects of the 1964 tax cut but it does admit the booming revenue growth in the 80s.

stands for decibels

August 8th, 2012
9:02 pm

Fundamentalist Muslim = Fundamentalist Christians

Yep. If you’ve listened to one radical cleric, you’ve listened to them all.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:02 pm

Ok Thulsa

All those people lied and they are really liberals

hahahahaha

:-)

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
9:04 pm

Uh oh,

Bartlett talks about revenue being down in 2009 and 2011. So who was president? And um. Who controlled Congress during those first 2 years??? That was easy. Try to make it a little tougher would ya?

getalife

August 8th, 2012
9:05 pm

“You might have to ask him”

I did and got 10 paragraphs of blah, blah, blah followed by a boom.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
9:05 pm

“He will post some numbers from a conservative think tank. Take them out of context and say BOOM”

Says the guy who posted from think progress a kook left nutsite. Geez.

tireofit

August 8th, 2012
9:06 pm

Why did the republicans have two unfunded wars along with medicare part D? I guess it makes the budget look better.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:06 pm

If there’s one thing that economists agree on, it’s that these claims are false. We’re not talking just ivory-tower lefties. Virtually every economics Ph.D. who has worked in a prominent role in the Bush Administration acknowledges that the tax cuts enacted during the past six years have not paid for themselves–and were never intended to. Harvard professor Greg Mankiw, chairman of Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers from 2003 to 2005, even devotes a section of his best-selling economics textbook to debunking the claim that tax cuts increase revenues. [Time, 12/6/07]

ODD OWL

August 8th, 2012
9:07 pm

Islam, Catholic and Protestant Christianity are patriarchal religions derived from Judaism… However Judaism is a matriarchal Religion… What happen ???

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:09 pm

yeah, this guy is a real lefty

Bush Economic Adviser Samwick: “Tax Cuts Have Not Fueled Record Revenues.” In a January 2007 blog post titled, “New Year’s Plea,” Andrew Samwick, former chief economist for George W. Bush’s Council on Economic Advisers, wrote:

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:10 pm

Even Laffer laughs off Thusla Doom’s fantasy, yet he marches on like a good soldier

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:12 pm

Greg Mankiw, Harvard economist and chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers (2003-05) under George W. Bush, said in 2007 that “I did not find such a claim credible, based on the available evidence. I never have, and I still don’t.”

Two other chairmen of Bush’s CEA, Andrew Samwick and Ed Lazear, as well as Bush’s former Treasury Secretary Hank Paulsen, have said the same thing in public. In his 1998 textbook Principles of Economics, Maskiw described those who hold this view as “charlatans and cranks.”

Back in 1980, presidential candidate George H.W. Bush called it “voodoo economics.” Thirty-one years later, Republicans are still peddling this false doctrine. They love it because it makes tax cuts an easy sell to voters who want to keep their favorite social programs but resent being taxed

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
9:12 pm

Uh oh,

Sorry but tax revenues increased after the 03 W tax cuts were fully realized. Your own article states it. Your own article stated that tax revenues increased throughout the 80s. I already posted it FROM YOUR ARTICLE. Can’t help you if you can’t read. Furthermore if the Dems don’t like tax cuts then they could have stopped the W tax cuts from 2009-2010. Why didn’t they???

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
9:13 pm

Just checking around the blog a bit…why does brosephus think that I owe him an apology?

stands for decibels

August 8th, 2012
9:13 pm

another drive-by, but:

Credit where due to Mitt Romney, who is sticking by his 1994 position on the Scouts.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/president-obama-mitt-romney-agree-gay-boy-scouts-ok/

Obama today joined Romney in publicly disagreeing with a controversial ban on gay members of the Boy Scouts of America, one of the nation’s largest and most well-known youth development groups.

It’s the first time Obama, who was named honorary president of the Boy Scouts of America in 2009, has publicly taken a position on the issue.

Romney first voiced support for gay scouts back in 1994 — a position that his campaign spokeswoman Andrea Saul said remains his position today.

Considering that this decision to stand firm on his earlier position is sure to piss off a fair number of evangelical voters, that takes guts. Good for you, Mitt.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:14 pm

It would be different if I was posting info from left wing think tanks and people who worked for Democrats.

These people were advisers to Reagan, both Bush’s and McCain’s campaign

getalife

August 8th, 2012
9:15 pm

“But on Fox News this morning, Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul went “off-script,” and amid a larger declaration about the ad being despicable and some pushback on the facts of the ad, she offered this statement in Romney’s defense: “To that point, if people had been in Massachusetts, under Governor Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care.”

After that came the deluge of conservatives savaging Saul for getting lost on the road to Damascus, essentially accusing her of giving away the election.”

Don’t mention robmecare silly.

Hilarious.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
9:17 pm

“However Judaism is a matriarchal Religion”

How do you figure that?

getalife

August 8th, 2012
9:19 pm

Lets pretend the collapse, never happened. w was a great a great President and tax cuts and no regulations worked.

Then never mention robmecare or anything even close to the truth and you have today’s gop.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
9:20 pm

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
9:22 pm

Uh Oh, hangs out on left wing blogs sucking up gallons of Kool-Aid and then comes on here and expects to be considered creditable. Sorry Uh Oh, you may be singing to Jay’s choir but there’s non-choir members on this blog as well and we see the world differently, so get used to it.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
9:22 pm

Uh oh,

think progress isn’t a left wing think tank? A couple of snippets from a few former Reagan or Bush officials doesn’t change the facts sir. Revenue doubled during the 80s and it went up in 03 when the W tax cuts were fully realized. Say whatever you will but you can’t ignore the raw numbers sir. They are what they are.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:24 pm

Heritage Foundation: The Bush Administration “Went Out Of Their Way To Be Clear That The Tax Cuts Were Not Expected To Pay For Themselves.” Mike Gonzalez, Heritage’s Vice President of Communications, wrote on The Foundry blog:

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
9:25 pm

Uh Oh, name them… Laffer voted for Clinton both times is he on your list?

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
9:25 pm

Doggone, I don’t want to speak for him, but I can tell you that my mom is a Jew and my dad was a gentile. That makes me a Jew. The other way around would not – at least historically. I believe that certain sects within the religion have changed that though…

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:26 pm

From The Economist: “Even by the standards of political boosterism, this is extraordinary. No serious economist believes Mr Bush’s tax cuts will pay for themselves. A recent study from the Congressional Budget Office suggested that, after ten years, up to one-third of the cost of a 10% cut in income taxes can be recouped from higher economic growth. That fraction may be higher for cuts in taxes on capital alone. But it is nowhere near 100%.” [The Economist, 1/12/06]

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:26 pm

2003 Economic Report Of The President: Lost Tax Revenue Won’t Be Completely Recovered. The 2003 Economic Report of the President written by the Council of Economic Advisors points out: “Although the economy grows in response to tax reductions (because of higher consumption in the short run and improved incentives in the long run), it is unlikely to grow so much that lost tax revenue is completely recovered by the higher level of economic activity.” [Economic Report of the President, February 2003]

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
9:26 pm

Oh and BTW, we American Jews always vote overwhelmingly against Republicans.

Which is a very sweet bonus…

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:27 pm

“There is no real dispute among economists that broad-based federal income tax cuts reduce revenue (except when tax rates are much higher than they are now),” said Alan D. Viard of the conservative American Enterprise Institute. “Revenue is lower than it would be without the Bush tax cuts — liberal and conservative economists are in accord on this question.” [PolitiFact, 11/7/10]

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:28 pm

Another supply-side theory, now less popular, was voiced by Bush in February 2006: “You cut taxes, and the tax revenues increase.”

The theory is that with lower marginal tax rates, people work harder and longer, thereby raising their income – and paying more taxes on it.

But even top Bush economic advisers now reject that thesis.

“I certainly would not claim that tax cuts pay for themselves,” Edward Lazear, the current chair of the Council of Economic Advisers, has stated. [Christian Science Monitor, 6/25/07, via Lexis]

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:28 pm

Wall Street Journal: Bush Tax Cuts Return 10 Times Less Than They Generate In Added Tax Revenue From Economic Growth. From a 2006 Wall Street Journal editorial: “The congressional Joint Committee on Taxation, using conventional analyses, says making the president’s tax cuts permanent would reduce federal revenues in 2016 by $314 billion. That is more than 10 times what the Treasury analysis suggests tax cuts would generate by prompting more hours of work, more savings and investment and more efficient use of resources.” [Wall Street Journal, 7/11/06]

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
9:30 pm

“but I can tell you that my mom is a Jew and my dad was a gentile. That makes me a Jew.”

But is that a tenet of the religion, or just a social accomodation. To be frank, it’s a common social thing. Children born to a mother who was a slave were also slaves in the US. And it’s because it’s much easier to identify the mother of a child than it is the father…historically.

A matriarchal identification of the child is not neccesssarily a religious tenet, but I don’t know enough about Judaism to know if applies to that religion.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:30 pm

Heritage Claimed Bush Tax Cuts Resulted In Creation Of 8.1 Million Jobs. Mike Gonzalez, Heritage’s Vice President of Communications, wrote on The Foundry blog: “The tax cuts enacted by the U.S. Congress in 2003 were an important cause of an economic expansion that roared for some 50 months and created 8.1 million jobs. The opposite philosophy – a stimulus that has crowded out private investment, plus an enormous health bill and a nightmarish financial regulatory package that are killing job creation – has only delayed recovery and left us with 9.1% unemployment.” [Heritage Foundation, 6/22/11]
FACT: Job Creation Lagged Under Bush

PolitiFact: “Only Under Eisenhower Was Job Growth More Sluggish Than It Was Under George W. Bush.” According to PolitiFact:

Employment under Bush grew by 4.5 percent using CES and 7 percent using CPS, whereas employment grew by double digits under presidents Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan, and also under the combined eight-year administrations of Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford, who finished Nixon’s term after he resigned, and John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson. Only under Eisenhower was job growth more sluggish than it was under George W. Bush, and even then, it was only the case using one of the two BLS statistics.” [PolitiFact, 5/10/11]

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
9:30 pm

Uh oh,

I see a lot of nice articles with nice opinions. But yet revenues went up when the 03 tax cuts were fully realized. And they went up throughout the 80s despite the tax cuts. You can present all the articles and opinions you want. It doesn’t change the hard data sir.

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
9:34 pm

Of course we didn’t have 42 months of unemployment under Bush. Given the fact that close to 50% of the population is now off the tax roles and over one third is getting federal government financial assistance in some form, of course Bush’s tax cuts won’t pay for themselves under Obama economics.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:34 pm

Revenue went up after Bush Sr and Clinton tax hikes so what is your point

The advisers of the people you voted for clearly shoot down your theory.

Even Laffer admits it. So like Aerosmith; “DREAM ON”

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
9:36 pm

Jewish identity passed on through the mother has been universally accepted by Jews for 3,000 years, and was decided by God, as recorded in the Five Books of Moses in Deut. 7:3-4. The Talmud (Kiddushin 68b) explains how this law is evident from those passages.
With blessings from Jerusalem,

Rabbi Shraga Simmons

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:36 pm

The 2001 tax cut did nothing to stimulate the economy, yet Republicans pushed for additional tax cuts in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2008. The economy continued to languish even as the Treasury hemorrhaged revenue, which fell to 17.5 percent of the gross domestic product in 2008 from 20.6 percent in 2000. Republicans abolished Paygo in 2002, and spending rose to 20.7 percent of G.D.P. in 2008 from 18.2 percent in 2001.

According to the C.B.O., by the end of the Bush administration, legislated tax cuts reduced revenues and increased the national debt by $1.6 trillion. Slower-than-expected growth further reduced revenues by $1.4 trillion.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/12/the-fiscal-legacy-of-george-w-bush/

Take it up with Bruce Bartlett. He worked for those big liberals Reagan, Bush and Kemp

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
9:37 pm

FACT: Job Creation Lagged Under Bush

This is where I’m going to help uh oh with his statistical analysis.

Point 1- When W took over the nation was already at or near full employment. Its like a student who graded 99 on a test. How much improvement and how many new jobs can you create when you’re already at full employment.

Point 2- Under W we had decent growth right up until the recession which was cause by entirely separate macro event- the housing meltdown. Obviously these last 2 years wiped out all the previous gains and skews the results of his first 6 years in office. Even you should understand this statistical analysis now that I’ve made it easy for you.

Point 3- While Bush did inherit an economy near full employment 9/11 hit in his first year and even before that we had gone through the dot.com bust at the end of the Clinton era. Somehow you left these events out of your thinking. No surprise there.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
9:38 pm

JamVet…interesting, but does that qualify the entire religion as a “matriarchal” religion…especially when, as far as I know, women cannot be Rabbis? Seems to me that to be matriarchal it would have to be led by women. How can it be woman centered if women can’t be leaders?

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
9:38 pm

Uh oh,

The initial 01 tax cut didn’t work real well because of 9/11 hitting and the cuts didn’t work because they were slow to take effect. It was only when the full tax cuts were fully realized in 03 that growth took off. Pay attention.

TaxPayer

August 8th, 2012
9:40 pm

Everyone knows that tax cuts pay for themselves. Well, everyone living in LaLa Land or in a RabbitPatch or in ToToVille.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:40 pm

Thulsa

Are you refuting that revenues went up after tax increases.

What you fail to see is that taxes are one variable of many variables that make up a viable economy.

Take it up with the Reagan, Bush Sr and Jr advisers.

They for the most part say you are spouting bull$hit.
Forget the left, they have debunked you.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:41 pm

You mean 03 in the height of the housing bubble when the economy would have been falsely roaring regardless…………

That time frame

JamVet

August 8th, 2012
9:41 pm

Doggone, I did not want to correct ODDOWL, but the word matriarchal should be replaced with the word matrilineal.

Carter – C
Reagan – C-
GHWB – C
Clinton – B-
Bush – F-
Obama – C-

We haven’t had a decent president since Kennedy…

Jm-pass TSPLOST-oh well ATL is screwed

August 8th, 2012
9:42 pm

Recon

U owe every lib an apology

For being con

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:44 pm

Thulsa

Don’t forget those Reagan tax increases after the tax reductions

Just saying

Jm-pass TSPLOST-oh well ATL is screwed

August 8th, 2012
9:44 pm

“We haven’t had a decent president since Kennedy…”

Hilarious

The one that slept with interns?

Or the one that kruschev thought was a joke pansy spawning the Cuban missile crisis?

TaxPayer

August 8th, 2012
9:44 pm

The 2012 Survey of Affluence and Wealth in America, from American Express Publishing and Harrison Group, finds that One Percenters are hoarding three times as much cash as they were two years ago. Their savings rate soared to 34 percent in the second quarter of 2012, up from 12 percent in 2007.

Higher savings would normally be good for the economy. But not now, when capital is needed to invest in growth and jobs. The One Percenters put 56 percent of their available cash into savings accounts and money markets in 2012 – that’s up from 24 percent in 2007.

This calls for another tax cut.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
9:46 pm

“The economy continued to languish even as the Treasury hemorrhaged revenue, which fell to 17.5 percent of the gross domestic product in 2008′

Is this guy just stupid? Does he not realize the recession hit?

“The 2001 tax cut did nothing to stimulate the economy,”

I guess this guy can’t seem to figure out what event dealt a blow to the economy in 2001. I’ll help you out. 9 and 11. See if you can figure it out from there.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
9:46 pm

“Doggone, I did not want to correct ODDOWL, but the word matriarchal should be replaced with the word matrilineal”

Yes, Ok…that makes more sense!

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
9:49 pm

Bush inherited a recession that began on Clinton’s watch in 2000 due to the dot.com bust and the 02000 legacy software scare which was part of the false economy under Bill Clinton who skated through 8 years in office. Uh Oh was probably in short pants during that era in history.

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
9:49 pm

TaxPayer

August 8th, 2012
9:49 pm

Most One Percenters agree with them – at least when it comes to higher taxes. The survey found that 62 percent of One Percenters are in favor of an income-tax increase. More than half say the increase should be imposed on people making $500,000 or more (basically themselves).

Another 31 percent say it should be imposed on filers making more than $250,000 – basically the Obama cut-off.

Oops. I wonder if Romney has heard the news.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:50 pm

Thulsa

Keep making excuses in your fantasy land world

Take it up with the Laffer and the numerous advisers that worked for Reagan, Bush Sr, Bush Jr, McCain, Kemp

They do not make willie nellie excuses as you are attempting to do.

You would have had a filled day if they were quotes from Democrats or left wing organizations. So I decided to shoot you down in flames from the advisers of the guys you voted for and backed.

Now you have been awarded the king of tap dance.

Congratulations

;-)

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
9:51 pm

“What you fail to see is that taxes are one variable of many variables that make up a viable economy.”

No shyte Sherlock. Geez. Tell us something we don’t freaking know.

“Take it up with the Reagan, Bush Sr and Jr advisers.”

You think a few snippets proves your point? I think I’ll stick with the hard data.

“They for the most part say you are spouting bull$hit.
Forget the left, they have debunked you.”

Yes. Of course. Its all Bullshyte. Which is why Obama kept all the W tax cuts huh genius? Even when he had a fully Dem Congress. Splain that one genius.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
9:52 pm

Olympics – Women’s beach volleyball…gold medal game…winning pair just got gold at their THIRD Olympics in a row!

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:53 pm

Speaking of false economies, guess Recon missed the housing bubble

Even most conservative economists say it was much worse then the dot.com bubble, but the brainwashed still believe

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
9:53 pm

“Take it up with the Laffer and the numerous advisers that worked for Reagan, Bush Sr, Bush Jr, McCain, Kemp”

I already did that. And they acknowledged that revenues went up throughout the 80s- just as your article acknowledged.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
9:55 pm

Thulsa

Speaking of geniuses. Where did I say I supported Obama?

Are you so narrow minded that you think all people are either Democrat or Republican?

Is that the best you can do?

What is your next assumption?

Look at the little brain on Doom.

Jm-pass TSPLOST-oh well ATL is screwed

August 8th, 2012
9:55 pm

Bush tried to stop housing bubble

Democrats made the bubble

Jm-pass TSPLOST-oh well ATL is screwed

August 8th, 2012
9:56 pm

Doggone 9:52

I was cheering for America

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
9:56 pm

Uh Oh probably just came into analyzing the housing bubble last year in his freshman year of college professor brain washing.

Not the one

August 8th, 2012
9:57 pm

There are so many “brilliant” people WTF do we need with a gov’t these people are in their little bedrooms or Starbucks and they can rule the world from there

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
9:58 pm

Sorry Uh Oh may be a she instead of a he.

Doggone/GA

August 8th, 2012
9:59 pm

I was cheering for America”

Everyone there was!

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
10:00 pm

Typical of Uh oh that he thinks the housing bubble peaked in 2003. No surprise that he can’t get his shyte straight.

“The United States housing bubble is an economic bubble affecting many parts of the United States housing market in over half of American states. Housing prices peaked in early 2006, started to decline in 2006 and 2007,”- wiki

Jm-pass TSPLOST-oh well ATL is screwed

August 8th, 2012
10:00 pm

Doggone 9:59 yes. :)

Hopefully

If not they were n the wrong place

getalife

August 8th, 2012
10:00 pm

You can argue that one aid on fox finally told the truth from the willie robme campaign.

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
10:01 pm

All hail Uh Oh! Give ‘em hell!

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 8th, 2012
10:01 pm

Joe Hussein Mama:

“0311 — “1) Just remember ……….. those passengers took action and that plane could have come down right on top of a school !”
And thus you’ve accepted my point. Thanks!”

And thus you have accepted my point because it was WORTH THE RISK to do SOMETHING !

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
10:02 pm

NEWFLASH! This just in! Republicans didn’t have nothing to do with the housing bubble! It was all them Democrats’ fault!

Gosh! I must of missed that headline!

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
10:03 pm

Uh Oh,

I didn’t say that you supported Obama. But you’ve mentioned the years 2010 and 2011 in a couple of your links which is bizarre since the continuing tax cuts are under the Obama regime. And if Obama himself didn’t think the tax cuts were beneficial its kinda odd that he didn’t repeal them. Dontcha think? BTW I’m glad my little brain was able to correct you on the correct date of the peak of the housing bubble which you incorrectly pegged at 03 when talking about the W tax cuts. You’re welcome.

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
10:03 pm

All hail Uh Oh! Give ‘em hell!

Even if he/she can’t do so very well.

Recon 0311 2533

August 8th, 2012
10:07 pm

Time to sign off, I’ll leave it up to Doomy to put the little kid pretend economist in his/her place.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
10:07 pm

“Even most conservative economists say it was much worse then the dot.com bubble, but the brainwashed still believe’

Are you so narrow minded that you think that conservatives believe the dot.com bubble was worst than the housing meltdown. Geez. Talk about narrow minded.

Uh Oh

August 8th, 2012
10:07 pm

Good night Boy Scout

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
10:08 pm

Recon,

He do remind me of my little 5 and 7 year old nieces he do. Except that I think they’re a little tougher than he is. Smarter too.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
10:10 pm

Sooth,

Nope. Housing bubble had a whole cast of characters on both sides of the aisle contributing to it.

G Mare

August 8th, 2012
10:10 pm

Good Evening, All. I don’t have any pertinent comments to make on this topic. Just wanted to let y’all know I’m watchin’ you. :)

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
10:10 pm

Them evil Democrats visited this abomination of the housing bubble on you true believers.

It don’t matter none that we had a Republican President.

It don’t matter none that we had a Republican House of Representatives.

It don’t matter none that we had a Republican Senate.

Yes, friends, the abomination of the housing bubble was done caused by them Democrats. Don’t let nobody tell you different!

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
10:21 pm

Well, everybody ran off! I was getting ready to order a truckload of sawdust and a tent!

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 8th, 2012
10:29 pm

Hummmmm ………………………… interesting:

Headline: “U.S. gives military aid to nations with child soldiers”

“As the junior senator from Illinois, Barack Obama co-sponsored a bill to restrict the U.S. government’s military support of countries that use children as soldiers. But President Obama has waived those very same sanctions in the name of “national interest,” bypassing the findings of a State Department report and allowing millions of dollars in military aid to flow to countries where children as young as 11 have been conscripted to fight — many of whom have died in one bloody conflict after another.

Mr. Obama’s actions have inflamed an army of critics, who say the waivers have put at-risk children in even greater danger.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/8/us-gives-military-aid-to-nations-with-child-soldie/

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
10:30 pm

Oh Noes. G mare is the eye in the sky. Better mind our Ps and Qs and play nice.

getalife

August 8th, 2012
10:31 pm

ann went on hannity freaking out about the aid on fox telling the truth.

We know cons don’t care about the truth so they are making excuses because robme’s numbers are tanking.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
10:34 pm

Scout,

Whaddya expect. Do you honestly think this man gives a damn about children soldiers. This is a guy who holds the most powerful position in the world but yet he has a brother that lives in squalor in Kenya and he won’t lift a finger to help him. I don’t know about you but if I had a half brother living in a hut in abject poverty I would send him a grand a month or 2 or 3 to help him get on his feet and take care of my own brother. I don’t understand how someone could be so cold to his own sibling. But that’s just me.

Tundra Dude

August 8th, 2012
10:36 pm

Good Evening, All. I don’t have any pertinent comments to make on this topic. Just wanted to let y’all know I’m watchin’ you.

So, you have no opinion on mosque burning…..??

getalife

August 8th, 2012
10:37 pm

As doomy jumps in a scout hole I will retort with this.

Hillary busted a move in South Africa..

Cue the outrage.

Tundra Dude

August 8th, 2012
10:37 pm

I don’t know about you but if I had a half brother living in a hut in abject poverty I would send him a grand a month or 2 or 3 to help him get on his feet and take care of my own brother

I hafta agree wit dat

Jm-pass TSPLOST-oh well ATL is screwed

August 8th, 2012
10:39 pm

getalife

August 8th, 2012
10:40 pm

I doubt you know where the Obama’s spend their money or know anything about family.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
10:41 pm

tundra dude,

G mare was on here earlier today and I think she commented on it. She’s a nice lady and I think was just checking in this evening.

Jm-pass TSPLOST-oh well ATL is screwed

August 8th, 2012
10:42 pm

Tundra second that

Jm-pass TSPLOST-oh well ATL is screwed

August 8th, 2012
10:43 pm

“getalife
August 8th, 2012
10:40 pm

I doubt you know where the Obama’s spend their money or know anything about family.

LinkReport this comment”

Yes we do

Swanky European hotels and resort vacations

And Martha’s vineyard

Let them eat cake -Michelle O

getalife

August 8th, 2012
10:45 pm

You don’t know anything so stop pretending.

Did you hack their bank account something?

Tundra Dude

August 8th, 2012
10:45 pm

G mare was on here earlier today and I think she commented on it. She’s a nice lady and I think was just checking in this evening.

O I see….
She’s watchin’ us, she sez ….is she Blogland Security…??

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
10:48 pm

tundra dude,

She’s a nice lady. First time she came on she was a little leery and a little scared that some of us cons would give her the kinda hell we reserve for folks like Adam. But we’re easy on her even if she is one of you libruls.

getalife

August 8th, 2012
10:48 pm

US leads by 3 medals.

getalife

August 8th, 2012
10:50 pm

I would say she is smarter than any con on this blog because she lives in the real world.

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
10:50 pm

Poor old Fright Wingers. What can we talk about? Child soldiers? Milton Friedman?

Is Kyle’s blog still open? Yes! Why are we schmutzing around with Bookman’s blog?

Milton Friedman is an idiot. His policies have been dis-proven over and over again. Yet, we, in our corporatist fascism accept his policies as sacrosanct.

It must be really lonely being a Fright-Winger now-a-days. What can we believe in?

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
10:51 pm

Jm,

Thanks a ton for that link- love it and I’m gonna order that book. I have to say Friedman is a personal hero of mine and if I could magically resurrect and have dinner with anyone who died in the past 20 years I would want to have a dinner and a conversation with him. I would have loved to have gotten my econ degree under him at Chicago also. In my opinion he was one of the great thinkers of the 20th century.

getalife

August 8th, 2012
10:52 pm

The can believe in 16 is just around the corner.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
10:54 pm

“Milton Friedman is an idiot. His policies have been dis-proven over and over again.”

Sooth,

You would have a hard time finding any economists who would call him an idiot. Even liberal economists would acknowledge his greatest just as I acknowledge the work of Keynes. And what “policies” of his are there that have been disproven over and over as you say?

getalife

August 8th, 2012
10:54 pm

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
10:58 pm

Doom: try Chile, Argentina, Russia, Central America for starters. For extra credit, try the United States, Great Britain, Europe.

Friedman’s (neo-liberal) policies have been an abject failure wherever they have been implemented.

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
11:02 pm

As is clear from his “Capitalism and Freedom” book Milton Friedman in his late years became a dangerous, completely blind to science ideologue, a corrupt academic who is ready for many to commit anything that the patrons in financial oligarchy wanted.

Friedman’s use of his position as the darling of irresponsible financiers to promote pseudo-scientific justification of their behavior, and Greenspan’s use of his to implement Friedman’s recommendations. Both need to be held up as bad examples at least in order to prevent others of their kind from gaining respect and influence. Friedman’s Capitalism and Freedom was the Americanized (read “dumbed down”) version of Hayek’s The Road to Serfdom. In other words, Friedman’s popular work was, by design, a propaganda peace in best Soviet or the National Socialist German Workers’ Party traditions…

Several of Milton Friedman interviews are available on YouTube. See for example Milton Friedman In this interview his sophistry about minimum wages is really distasteful and intellectually dishonest. I think that he understands this is just find it beneficial to promote this simplistic ramble. In reality it is not minimum wages but the army of illegal immigrants as well as offshoring of manufacturing that have negative effect of low qualified pool of laborers. Illegal immigrants are in essence a modern age slaves and wide use of their labor produces the effects he referred to. How he can ignore this and other important effects is belong me and discredit academic credential of Chicago School better then any direct critique. Also listen his simplistic assessment of Great Depression and think about the current economic situation. All-in-all in this interview he comes as an intellectual lightweight, almost Kudlow-level (which is as close to the floor, as one can get). His advocacy of Wild West capitalism and reckless deregulation did a lot harm to the country and now chickens come home to roost. And how you can preserve savings in fiat money regime is another interesting question.

Doomy: I would think you would know better by now. Yet, you persist.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
11:10 pm

Sooth,

Argentina was a proto type of the kinds of economics that Friedman preaches. Up until the 30s or 40s I think it was Argentina was the 4th richest country in the world per capita before the socialistic Juan Peron and his cronies took over. After that it was all downhill. The leftists ruined that country for the rest of the century. Not sure you chose Chile but if I remember correctly Chile has done well since it took a more market oriented approach. Russia was a feudalist state if you’re talking about pre Communism. Central America has never been capitalist. I’ve read several books on Latin Amerca and specialized in Central America. They’re problems were more of a feudal problem, a dictatorial problem, and as is typical of a 3rd world nation they did not have the requisite personal property and land property rights that are critical to a successful capitalist economy. I could spend all night talking about their economies. Still better than Cuba or North Korea though. As for the U.S. and Great Britain long before they became more socialistic they prospered as largely capitalist states. How else did a small island country like Britain become the most powerful nation on earth at one time? It was because of capitalism. Same with the U.S. which before we became so socialized grew at a rapid fire pace to become one of the most powerful nations on Earth in a mere 130 years. And do you doubt that when the Western Europeans were actually practicing capitalism that they were the most powerful nations on earth???- much more so than their eastern european neighbors under communism.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 8th, 2012
11:11 pm

Thulsa:

He’s the “Radical in Chief” !

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
11:17 pm

Sooth,

Sorry but the guy who wrote that opinion is quite an idiot. Look at this fool calling illegal aliens modern day slaves. What an idiot. Do people risk their lives to travel 3000 miles including through an inhospitable desert to become slaves?

Sorry but what I see when I see successful illegals is people who came here with little more than the clothes on their back who worked hard, are generally happy, and who make enough money to live the American dream. Many of them not only support themselves financially but also support family members back home.

I’m surprised you fell for such a load of gobbledeegook crap. And for this limousine liberal to look down his nose at hard working illegals, many of whom later became very successful is the height of limousine liberal snobbery.

Crazy Times

August 8th, 2012
11:18 pm

He is the President of the United States

If your moniker represents some sort of military or police rank or job scope of some type, you should know to show some damn respect.

Don’t let your petty politics get in the way of respect for the office.

You are only demeaning yourself. Even though you elect to do it, you know it is true.

Salute that man.

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
11:20 pm

The reason he was there was to reverse the gains of the Allende social democracy and return control of the country’s economic and political assets to the oligarchy. Pinochet was convinced, through supporters among the academics in the elite Chilean universities, to try a new series of economic policies, called “neoliberal” by their founders, the economists of the University of Chicago, led by an economist by the name of Milton Friedman, who three years later would go on to win a Nobel Prize in Economics for what he was about to unleash upon Chile.

Social reforms included school choice, labor law reform, social welfare reform, and many other similar proposals that would be instantly familiar to current American conservatives as part of their own agenda. The effects, however, were exactly what American social liberals had predicted – a generalized increase in poverty, disease, homelessness, and a general spread of squalor, unrest and disaffection – all effects that were of no concern whatever to the Chicago Boys.

Freed from the heavy hand of bureacracy, business regulation, taxes and public-owned enterprise, the economy took off – right off a cliff and into a severe recession. The slowdown had the predictable effect on Chile’s industrial sector, resulting in massive layoffs and reduced economic activity. Suddenly, Chile’s large and prosperous middle class found itself facing huge unemployment increases, rapidly falling salaries and rapidly increasing living costs.

Let me know if any of this sounds remotely familiar to you.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
11:23 pm

Scout,

I’m going to call it a night. But before I go I gotta reiterate that point one more time. Is that not disturbing? A multi millionaire who is set for life and he won’t even send $100 a month which in a desperate country like kenya is like $1000 a month here to help his own brother? How does the man live with himself? He could send the guy $1k and it would enable him to finish that truck mechanic school so that he could then support himself. I don’t understand that kind of cruelty to one’s one brother. I just don’t.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 8th, 2012
11:24 pm

Crazy Times:

You forget this is an opinion, joke, satire, hyperbole, whatever blog. I do not use profanity but I will use STRONG satire regarding the president or anyone else. I assume you are o.k. with the satire of Luckovich’s cartooons as printed by the AJC ??

That said, if I am present in a room where the president walks in I will stand and address him as “Mr. President” is spoken to.

You may stand down now.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 8th, 2012
11:24 pm

Thulsa:

Have you ever considered that it may not be his half brother ?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 8th, 2012
11:26 pm

Excuse me:

“if” spoken to

“cartoons”

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
11:27 pm

So what’s your solution sooth? Socialism like in France with 25% youth unemployment?

How about this. Lets stick with the market oriented economy that gave Chile a staggering 6.5% economic growth rate in 2011 and over 5% growth the year before. Chile is booming and the facts bear it out. You picked the wrong country to downplay concerning capitalism sooth.

http://www.indexmundi.com/chile/economy_profile.html

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
11:28 pm

Heck! Doomy! Don’t leave now! We haven’t even gotten to Argentina yet! Come back! Come back!

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
11:29 pm

Scout,

Yes. Doesn’t matter. Its still his brother. I just can’t understand how libs think Obama is such a caring guy when he doesn’t give a damn about a half brother. I just don’t get it.

Crazy Times

August 8th, 2012
11:29 pm

0311

Everyone has their opinion and right to it. I just don’t care for people to call any President names.

Their policies are surely up for ridicule, however I personally think it is best to show them respect by calling them President Obama, Bush, Reagan and so on. At minimum by their last name.

That is just me, so I apologize if I came across as too harsh.

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
11:31 pm

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

August 8th, 2012
11:32 pm

thelma seriously pwned by Jay, Uh oh and Sooth.

B ………. B ……….. B

O ………. O ………. O

O ………. O ………. O

M ………. M ………. M

! ……….! ……….!

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
11:32 pm

Sooth,

So now that you see how Chile is booming you want to change the subject back to Argentina? And we already discussed Argentina. Remember? It was the country that was one of the wealthiest the world in per capita wealth until the leftists took over when Peron and proceeded to just ruin that country. Argentina is a textbook example of how to take a perfectly great nation and let leftists take over and turn it to utter freaking ruin.

Crazy Times

August 8th, 2012
11:34 pm

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
11:36 pm

Kammypoo,

I see you been in liberal fantasyland. Hope you brought me back one a them chocolately unicorns. Perhaps you would like to take sooth’s place since he is failing so miserably and explain how Chile is such an economic failure under capitalism when the evidence is the exact opposite.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Jm-pass TSPLOST-oh well ATL is screwed

August 8th, 2012
11:36 pm

Can I call mr Obama “Barack”

That’s a name

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
11:37 pm

Crazy times. Mixed bag? You can say that about any country. Bottom line though is that if your nation’s GDP is growing at 6.5% and 5% the previous year then you’re doing pretty well.

Crazy Times

August 8th, 2012
11:40 pm

You keep crying about Peron. They were not great.

But why no mention of what brought them to power?

Was it that the lower middle to lower levels of society thought that #4 ranking was working for them?

Again, Peron nothing special, but the convincing to get the people to back them didn’t come because the previous leaders along with business community were trickling it down.

Don’t you be selective with your facts, son

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 8th, 2012
11:40 pm

Thulsa:

I hear you but he may not be his “blood” brother. A lot written about that lately. Who knows.

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
11:40 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 8th, 2012
11:43 pm

Crazy Times:

I hear you. No apology needed.

Political satire I believe is fair game.

In an official setting …………… respect the office of the Presidency.

By the way, I know you don’t know me from Adam’s house cat, but I have used very strong satire regarding presidents that I was willing to give my life for as part of my career. I separate those two things quite easily.

Crazy Times

August 8th, 2012
11:43 pm

Unemployment resulting from the Great Depression caused unrest.[82] The industrial growth spurt of the 1930s gradually slowed.[85] The economic conditions of the 1930s contributed to the process of internal migration from the countryside and smaller towns to the cities, especially Buenos Aires, where there were greater opportunities for employment.[86] The urban working classes lead several unsuccessful uprisings prior to the 1937 presidential elections.[82] Traditional export agriculture stagnated at the outbreak of World War II and remained sluggish.[85]

Peron didn’t come to power until 1943. Doesn’t seem their economy was booming at that time…………

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
11:44 pm

Sooth,

Another kook website. Geez. Really? Come on Sooth. Open up your mind and read a real, credentialed economist and not whatever kook wrote that silly article. When someone starts dissing free markets you should just quit reading. He’s a kook if he thinks that a top down centralized approach works better than free markets. I believe the Soviet Union, Cuba, and North Korea all proved this. Cuba and China have proved it by opening their economies a decade or so back to let free markets get their economies growing. The Russians abandoned the failed system alltogether. The fact that I even have to convince you that free markets are superior to a centralized approach given the mountain of evidence in support of free markets is unbelievable in and of itself. I’m starting to think you’re hopeless sooth. I’ll try again tomorrow. Have a good night.

Crazy Times

August 8th, 2012
11:45 pm

What was that about Peron?

After the 1943 Argentine coup d’état, Juan Perón, a member of the United Officers Group that engineered the plot,[87] became Minister of Labor.[82] Campaigning among workers with promises of land, higher wages, and social security, he won a decisive victory in the 1946 presidential elections.[82] Under Perón, the number of unionized workers expanded as he helped to establish the powerful General Confederation of Labor.[82] Perón turned Argentina into a corporatist country in which powerful organized interest groups negotiated for positions and resources.[82] During these years, Argentina developed the largest middle class on the South American continent.[88]

Early Peronism was a period of macroeconomic shocks during which a strategy of import substitution industrialization was put into practice.[89] Bilateral trade, exchange control and multiple exchange rates were its most important characteristics.[89] The state’s role in the economy increased, reflected in the increase in state-owned property, interventionism (including control of rents and prices) and higher levels of public spending, mainly financed by the inflationary tax. The expansive macroeconomic policy, which aimed at the redistribution of wealth and the increase of spending to finance populist policies, led to inflation.[89]

Perón used wartime reserves to pay off overseas debt, to nationalise foreign-owned enterprises, and established the IAPI to control the foreign trade in export commodities.[90] Perón erected a system of almost complete protection against imports, largely cutting off Argentina from the international market.[91] In 1947, he announced his first Five-Year Plan based on growth of nationalized industries.[85] Protectionism also created a domestically oriented industry with high production costs, incapable of competing in international markets.[85] At the same time, output of beef and grain, the country’s main export goods, stagnated.[91] The IAPI began shortchanging growers and, when world grain prices dropped in the late 1940s, it stifled agricultural production, exports and business sentiment, in general.[92]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_Argentina

Again, Thulsa Doom is selective with his information. Even though he puts it out as if it is the entire story

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
11:46 pm

Crazy times,

The 30s depression was worldwide. I kinda thought that was a given for the most part.

Argentina would have recovered just as everyone else did. Unfortunately the Peronistas led them to a path from which they have never fully recovered. Good night all.

Crazy Times

August 8th, 2012
11:48 pm

During these years, Argentina developed the largest middle class on the South American continent.[88]

Thulsa: The who truth and nothing but the truth

Is it that hard? You have been wrong all night. Maybe you are just being argumentative. Either way you need to make friends with the facts

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
11:49 pm

Doomy: when in doubt, attack the author. Who, by the was is from the University of Buenos Aires.

The Soviet Union collapsed after instituting neo-liberal reforms, remember?

So far as I know, Cuba and North Korea have not instituted neo-liberal reforms.

I would suggest that you do some intensive reading on this subject before you engage me on this subject again.

But, then again. Why bother? Just keep believing what Lush tells you.

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
11:51 pm

Crazy times,

Nope. The nationalized industries and protectionist measures hurt the country for a long, long time. Take a look at the history of nationalized industries throughout the globe sir. Its a disaster in practically every case. And protectionism? Its pretty much a tenet of economics that any country and the world in general is better off with free trade. That is not in dispute by virtually any economist. As you can see inflation, huge and inept bureaucracy, and economic stagnation and inefficient state owned industries were eventually his legacy of failed policies. Gotta go for the last time. Night.

Crazy Times

August 8th, 2012
11:53 pm

0311

By the way. Thanks for your service to this great country

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
11:53 pm

Doomy: I want you to take one (a single) assertion you have made in your posts in the last 10 minutes and post a substantial link to back it up. Just one. OK?

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
11:54 pm

“The nationalized industries and protectionist measures hurt the country for a long, long time. Take a look at the history of nationalized industries throughout the globe sir. Its a disaster in practically every case.”

This is a good one. Post a link that substantiates this claim. I’d like to see it.

Soothsayer

August 8th, 2012
11:55 pm

And don’t you run away, Doomy. I want to see that link!

Thulsa Doom

August 8th, 2012
11:57 pm

Crazy times, Yes. And eventually that large middle class all went broke as the country went broke. That part you forget. There’s nothing to argue about sir. Its simple really. The more free market an economy the more successful and wealthy it is. The more govt intervention and socialistic an economy the more stagnant it becomes. This has been proven over and over and over. And if you don’t believe it still then look at the more dynamic, growing free market economies of East Asia vs the generally stagnating and broke economies of western Europe. Facts are facts sir and its indisputable. And last of all I suspect you and all the other leftists know it but just don’t want to admit it. But keep on placing your faith in big gubment sir. I’ll place mine in capitalism, free markets, and the belief in individual people as opposed to a belief in your nanny state.

Sooth, you’ve reached the height of silliness when you say the Soviet Union failed due to Friedman economics. I’m sorry but I just can’t take you seriously anymore.

Gnight.

Soothsayer

August 9th, 2012
12:00 am

Wait a minute, Doomy! I was just getting ready to post a bunch of articles about the Soviet Union and neoliberalism. Don’t you dare run off now!

I’m still waiting on a link from Argentina or any link for that matter. Come back. Come ba-a-a-a-a-a-ck! Don’t leave! NO-O-O-O-O-O-O-O!

Obambarrassment

August 9th, 2012
12:05 am

What’s incalculable is the amnesia you need to have to imagine that the federal government is not trying to persecute Christians. Well, at least you don’t need to be an AJC columnist to forget that the Obama administration and the forgone defeated Democrat congress of Nancy Pelosi is still trying, with this HHS law and mandate to make Christians agents of federal policy to compelling them to offer procedures and drugs against their consciences.

No such coercion violates Muslim’s “sacred” beliefs. Why?

Because Muslims don’t believe in insurance! Isn’t that a kick?

Christians believe in life and they are rebuffed, but making someone carry insurance that they don’t believe in–now that’s persecution.

Poor Muslims. Good thing Obama takes their point of view.

Obambarrassment

August 9th, 2012
12:12 am

Sooth,

The Soviet Union failed because of capitalism? That’s nutty–indefensible really.

My ancestors who were marched out of Poland into cattle cars then into Soviet state farms/concentration camps sure appreciated their African reprieve as guests of the British government–the uh, capitalist British government.

But I’d be glad to pick up where Thulsa left off and be the one ignoring you now.

Soothsayer

August 9th, 2012
12:12 am

“What’s incalculable is the amnesia you need to have to imagine that the federal government is not trying to persecute Christians.”

Huh?

Soothsayer

August 9th, 2012
12:14 am

Little Davy is that you? Did you manage to sneak in here under Jay’s radar. Kyle won’t help you here. You’re mine now!

jaypat

August 9th, 2012
12:15 am

Bookman’s entire argument is ridiculous. Everyone who has concerns about religious extremism isn’t necessarily the next Hitler.

Mr. Bookman, I’ve found you a fairly reasonable person, albeit somewhat miguided, but to claim as you do–obliquely, to be sure–that anyone who objects to the most hideous practices of some branches of religion is somehow “at fault” here is not only ridiculous, but ludicrous.

Do we allow human sacrifice here in the US? Of course not. But there are certain sects of some religions which believe that if you ain’t one of them, then you’re the enemy and must be killed. This is not a joke, for these people are as serious as a heart attack about this.

The United States is founded on the principle of “religious freedom.” But that doesn’t give any religion the right to arbitrarily take another human’s life on religious grounds. That’s where we draw the line.

Soothsayer

August 9th, 2012
12:19 am

Yes, Little Davy, you managed — single-handedly to shut down Kyle’s blog with your little temper tantrum. Well, that’s just too bad! You know why? Because I don’t give a shyte!

You blogged with your real name and boasted about your position in government such that anyone with a third-grade education could ascertain who you were.

Obambarrassment

August 9th, 2012
12:49 am

Jaypat,

Your first mistake is to find Bookman reasonable. The second mistake would be to take seriously the rantings of Sooth, who can’t seem to express himself without vulgarity.

Such are the minds of leftists….

That and “huh?,” the pretension that they aren’t completely incoherent.

Sooth, I find it remarkable that you manifest pretensions for your articulation when in reality, you make zero sense.

It’s like Obama. You’re embarrassing yourself, but please keep on: deny deny deny.

The economy’s going great; Obama is sort of like a god (small ‘g’ of course); he’s good articulate and clean–an amazing story; let’s give him another Nobel; Christians? Shyte, what bigots!

getalife

August 9th, 2012
12:58 am

Crazy Times knows how to enter the room.

90 more days of fighting.

Can willie handle the pressure?.

Nope.

Soothsayer

August 9th, 2012
12:59 am

Davy, I thought you had left. We need to talk. (While we can, that is, because tomorrow you won’t be able to blog here.)

Why are you so sensitive about your persona? I have watched your Youtube videos and countless blog posts on Cumming Home? Why don’t you just “come out?” I know that’s not the correct term.

Why don’t you develop a thick skin? Why do you want me banned from Kyle’s blog?

I dont’ really have anything against you personally, I just like to “stick it” to conservatives.

Know what I mean?

getalife

August 9th, 2012
1:05 am

“he’s good articulate and clean”

White powder!

Obambarrassment

August 9th, 2012
1:29 am

getalife,

No, the “good, articulate and clean” quote is Joe Biden.

Obambarrassment

August 9th, 2012
1:29 am

Sooth,

You are delusional.

Completely.

Delusional.

Kal

August 9th, 2012
1:41 am

Being an American Muslim I have to say this from the bottom of my heart. No matter what we Muslims are being catogarised to be we will always always always love this country the country that gave us all our rights and freedom. The country that treated us like humans I will forever love the USA from the bottom of my heart god is my witness I will die for this country that I love to death

jaypat

August 9th, 2012
2:38 am

@kal/1:41 am

You’re one of the people who must bear the brunt of the anti-Muslim backlash in the US. It is not fair and it s not just. I know many Muslims but none of them harbor some of the murderous tendencies of some of the sects of Islam. Islam is not the only religion to have wierdos. Protestants have the snake handlers, the Catholics have their own goofie’s, as do the Jews…it is pervasive across all religions. That is why the US doesn’t try to decide which of the “gods” is the real god; we only guarantee “freedom of religion.” So far, after over 200 years, it’s worked pretty well.

Unfortuntely, appealing to the extremeists is exactly the type of policy that the US and NATO is following in the Middle East to fight as some sort of mercenary/religious army. “Non-Islamists are Infidels, and should die” is the battle cry. Unfortunately some people are hearing that and are responding.

The last time this was tried on a major level was during “Charlie Wilson’s War”, from the 1980’s, which we’re still fighting today.

I am so sick and tired of war. It is a destructive process that accomplishes absolutely nothing in the long run. All money spent on war is wasted. It produces absoluely nothing and destroy’s everything in it’s path.

Enough.

Spend precious money on useful things, and not war.

Kal

August 9th, 2012
3:51 am

Jaypat… I agree with you but to be honest with you there is nothing we could do but try to just keep going. Islam to me is gods gift but what some Muslims do make me sick blowing up places and killing innocents is the work of the devil not Islam. A true Muslim will never ever kill innocent people. But you know how that goes when someone does that we all have to pay the price. I wish peace to everyone and I wish all killings will stop and all Evel disappear. All I know is that America treated us like humans not like our own countries they treated us like animals. How could we not be greatful and just keep loving America. My kids were born here and I came here since I was 12 years old. I say may god bless America.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 9th, 2012
6:11 am

Good Thursday morning to all y’all…

First off, Luckovich…

http://blogs.ajc.com/mike-luckovich/?cxntlid=sldr_hm

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
6:14 am

G’morning Normal!!

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 9th, 2012
6:15 am

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 9th, 2012
6:16 am

Top of the day to you, USinUK!

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 9th, 2012
6:20 am

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
6:24 am

Normal – 6:20 … oh, man … that which has been seen (and heard) cannot be unseen.

how are you??? and how are the grandkids??

Joel Edge

August 9th, 2012
6:28 am

“told Muslims they need to love their neighbors and take care of them”
They must not have been listening.

MiltonMan

August 9th, 2012
6:30 am

So Jay hates Christians who hate Muslims but he loves mayors of Chicago, Boston, etc. who hate a man who happens to be a Christian and employs thousands of people and who happens to express his US Constitutional right of freedom of speech.

Jay, if anyone here sounds un-American it is you.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
6:32 am

” They must not have been listening.”

same thing can be said of Christians … obviously.

massachusetts refugee

August 9th, 2012
6:33 am

one word – crusades

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
6:33 am

Milton – “So Jay hates Christians who hate Muslims but he loves mayors of Chicago, Boston, etc. who hate a man who happens to be a Christian and employs thousands of people and who happens to express his US Constitutional right of freedom of speech.”

go back and reread page 1 – here’s Jay’s response:

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/08/08/whos-the-american-here-and-whos-unamerican/?cxntfid=blogs_jay_bookman_blog#comment-1028731

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
6:34 am

“one word – crusades”

one more word: Inquisition.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
6:34 am

Here’s another word: pogroms

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
6:34 am

And how about: Holocaust.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 9th, 2012
6:35 am

Milton,
I thought Christians weren’t supposed to hate anyone…

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
6:37 am

Normal – evidently, Jesus just wants you to love your neighbor … the people who live 2 blocks over can just suck it.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 9th, 2012
6:37 am

USinUk,
The Grand Kids are great, back in school and suffering… :) I’m having a series of shots in my right knee again. Sort of like getting a lube job, I suppose. I don’t remember it hurting so much last time though… Other than that, I’m great.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
6:39 am

Normal – back to school already??? criminey! it’s only the 9th!! when I was in school, we went back the week before Labor Day (which my parents never understood)

sorry about your knee … just the thought makes me a bit wobbly

Beth

August 9th, 2012
6:40 am

Obama’s class warfare is what is really unamerican. Obama has stepped far out of the mainstream of American tradition. His determined focus on increasing the power of the state, his unending class warfare rhetoric, his decison not to enforce laws he does not like…these are the things that are unamerican to the degree that neither democrats nor republicans would have embraced such lunacy.

MiltonMan

August 9th, 2012
6:41 am

Ask Salman Rushdie or Theo van Gogh’s family just exactly how peaceful the islamic “religion” is.

Right from the Koran: “Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush” (Surah 9:5) “

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 9th, 2012
6:44 am

USinUK at 0637… I have never understood the “average” Christian mindset about all this. It’s like my Republican neighbor who keeps swiping my Obama sign. I left a note on the last on that said all he was doing was putting another $15.00 into the Democratic coffers each time he took a sign. That sign is still there.
———————–

The average Christian, like my neighbor seems to think that it’s OK to do any thing they like as long as it’s in the name of the Prince of Peace. Burn a Mosque, shoot a doctor, steal a sign, whatever. The ends justify the means to a Christian….and then they wonder why nobody outside their faith likes them…

MiltonMan

August 9th, 2012
6:46 am

“Milton,
I thought Christians weren’t supposed to hate anyone…”

Ask them. In the OT, Christians were looked down upon by God’s chosen people the Hebrews. Also, these Hebrews killed thousands of men, women, children in taking the land of milk and honey.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
6:46 am

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
6:47 am

gosh beth … thanks for all the specifics …

MiltonMan

August 9th, 2012
6:48 am

“The average Christian, like my neighbor seems to think that it’s OK to do any thing they like as long as it’s in the name of the Prince of Peace. Burn a Mosque, shoot a doctor, steal a sign, whatever. The ends justify the means to a Christian….and then they wonder why nobody outside their faith likes them…”

You seem highly judgmental to those that are judgmental themselves. What exactly is an “average” Christian???

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 9th, 2012
6:49 am

Milton,
It could be that many passages in the Koran are taken out of context to prove a particular point just like passages in the Bible are pulled for the same purpose. It’s the person and his agenda, not the book. But you are going to hate who you want to hate. At least admit that. By the way have you ever read the Koran cover to cover?

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 9th, 2012
6:50 am

Milton,
“What exactly is an “average” Christian???”

My gut says…you.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
6:51 am

gosh, milton … nothing to say about the BIBLE advocating killing non-believers???

hmmmmmm???

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 9th, 2012
6:51 am

Beth, The “Other” Republican… :lol:

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
6:51 am

“My gut says…you.”

mine says below average … in many ways …

lynnie gal

August 9th, 2012
6:59 am

The latest act of terrorism in the U.S. was a white, right wing, white supremisist neo-nazi who gunned down (brown) people worshiping int their temple Should we fear all white ex-military men with tatoos? They are a scary bunch. Why is it almost all mass murderers are white men? Think about it. White men with a chip on their shoulder that want to gun down innocent people in movie theaters, food courts, office buildings,and parking lots. I say leave the muslims alone–let them worship and start shutting down places where white men gather.

MiltonMan

August 9th, 2012
6:59 am

I send the commonality of the lib threads here:

(1) Hate the Christians/Christian faith because of a couple of idiots who destroy Mosques and OT books that talk about the validity of killing the “non-believer”.
(2) Cut some slack to the “peaceful religion” of islam because one deceiver of the faith disguised as a spokesman states that “we love all” yet ignore islamic violent tendencies that are currently running rampant, the Koran states killing is okay, the fruit cakes kill anyone who destroys a Koran, kills anyone who writes cartoons about the child molestor known as Muhammedd, kills school children in southern Russia, etc., etc., etc.

Shameful.

MiltonMan

August 9th, 2012
7:00 am

“Milton,
“What exactly is an “average” Christian???”

My gut says…you.”

Your gut is like your head = empty.

MiltonMan

August 9th, 2012
7:04 am

“The latest act of terrorism in the U.S. was a white, right wing, white supremisist neo-nazi who gunned down (brown) people worshiping int their temple Should we fear all white ex-military men with tatoos? They are a scary bunch. Why is it almost all mass murderers are white men? Think about it. White men with a chip on their shoulder that want to gun down innocent people in movie theaters, food courts, office buildings,and parking lots. I say leave the muslims alone–let them worship and start shutting down places where white men gather.”

Now we go from religious beliefs to skin color. Remind the victims of 9/11 the skin color of the perps. Do you have any proof that this guy was a christian?

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 9th, 2012
7:09 am

Milton,

I’d rather my head be empty than full of bigotry and hatred like yours….just sayin’

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
7:12 am

So Jay hates Christians who hate Muslims

And you love them. got it, Milton.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 9th, 2012
7:12 am

Folks,
you have got to remember that Milton is fully immersed in his “faith”, believing his is the only way and America, especially white Christian Americans are the only chosen ones. Let him believe that myth all he wants…it seems to make him happy.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
7:15 am

“Hate the Christians/Christian faith because of a couple of idiots who destroy Mosques and OT books that talk about the validity of killing the “non-believer”.”

OH!!! the irony!!!

Rightwing Troll

August 9th, 2012
7:16 am

So, from the wingnut postings here am I to infer that the Westboro baptist loons are the face of christianity?

Like I said to one of you wingnuts here the other day, your deeds are now starting to catch up to your hateful words…

It’s simply unfathomable that some of you wingnuts and teatards lay in your beds at night quaking from fear that sharia law is going to take over the US.

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
7:17 am

I know I was giving Mitt some serious credit for (apparently) sticking to his guns on supporting gay rights for Scouts, upthread.

I gotta say, though, if I were betting on this, I’d give Mitt about 24 hours before doing a flip on the issue, once this gets out and circulates ’round the wingnuttisphere. I’ve love to be wrong.

(on the other hand, Sludge doesn’t have a mention on its homepage this morning, so maybe the echo chamber has agreed to keep this one on the downlow.)

Rightwing Troll

August 9th, 2012
7:18 am

” Let him believe that myth all he wants…it seems to make him happy.”

He doesn’t come across as… “happy”… none of the “christians” or wingnuts here do…

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
7:23 am

Do you have any proof that this guy was a christian?

The Celtic cross tattoo might be something of a giveaway.

Also this.

After Wade Michael Page, the suspect in the Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting, was fired from a Harley Davidson shop in 2004, he left behind an application to join the Ku Klux Klan. What’s on the KKK application form?

Name, address, and information about membership in secret orders. Klan applications vary by chapter, but most begin with the same information required for a drugstore discount card (contact information, age, marital status, etc.). Then there’s information specific to white extremist groups. Applicants usually have to disclose whether they’ve ever worked in law enforcement or for the government in any capacity. They must affirm that they are white Christians, and that they don’t belong to other secret orders like the freemasons. (Conspiracy theorists—Klansmen chief among them—believe the masons are plotting to take over government and subvert Christianity.) Some applications include the question “Do you believe all men are created equal?” The correct answer, if you’re a prospective Klansman, is “no.” Extremist websites sometimes use the same technique, popping up this question and diverting those who answer “yes” away from the site.

Can’t join the Klan if you don’t claim to be a Christian.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
7:28 am

personally, I’ve been waiting for Milton to pull out the “but it’s the OT” to defend that the Bible says EXACTLY the same as the Koran …

Just to keep up with the theological flip-flopping:
1) when the OT says to kill the non-believer … ignore it
2) when the OT says you can sell your kids off as slaves … ignore it
3) when the OT says not to eat meat and dairy together … ignore it
4) when the OT says not to wear clothes made of different fibers … ignore it
5) when the OT says not to eat pork or shellfish … ignore it
6) when the OT says that men shouldn’t lie with men, hold it up as GOD’S WORD

thanks for clarifying

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
7:29 am

“Can’t join the Klan if you don’t claim to be a Christian.”

they don’t seem to like Jews much …

hey, I remember when they didn’t like Catholics, either …

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
7:30 am

… and with that, I’m off to get a falafel …

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
7:30 am

start shutting down places where white men gather.

I think we should allow the RNC to continue operating, myself.

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
7:31 am

when the OT says that men shouldn’t lie with men

They just say not to do it like you were doing it with a woman.

They want to make sure you’re not doing it wrong, is all.

Doggone/GA

August 9th, 2012
7:32 am

“In the OT, Christians were looked down upon by God’s chosen people the Hebrews. ”

There are no Christians in the OT

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
7:33 am

“They want to make sure you’re not doing it wrong, is all.”

or throw out your back.

hate it when that happens.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
7:33 am

“There are no Christians in the OT”

shhhhhhhhhhhhhh … he’s on a roll …

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
7:34 am

… and with that, I’m off to get a falafel …

Tell BillO I said “hi.”

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
7:37 am

one deceiver of the faith disguised as a spokesman states that “we love all”

I know this is piling on, but just how much of a lying, stinking filthy sack of dog crap do you have to believe that there is but one, or even just a tiny sprinkling, of faithful Muslims who profess a love for all humanity?

The mind boggles that there is a support network for the likes of our MiltonMan.

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
7:39 am

And speaking of filthy liars.

[I]t’s Romney’s first major contribution to the culture war aspect of campaigning — something that has been largely absent since we got past the racial insights of Gingrich, Santorum and Cain during the primaries.

In this respect, it doesn’t even have the tragic deftness of the infamous Willie Horton ad. It’s either summer-camp sloppy, in interpreting the word waiver as necessarily meaning “waiving” work — or brutally cynical, in hoping the public will.

Then there is the glum sociological tackiness. Welfare is a racially coded issue, and Romney’s first insight on such a matter is that Obama wants to create a class of (predominantly black) loafers?

It’s one more piece of evidence suggesting that this man simply doesn’t have the solidity to be commander-in-chief.

massachusetts refugee

August 9th, 2012
7:51 am

what’s good for the goose….http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-camp-denies-knowledge-cancer-tale-told-may-195237581.html

But there’s a problem. As Politico first reported, Soptic told essentially the same story in a May 14, 2012, conference call hosted by the Obama campaign. Here’s what he said then, according to a partial recording of the call passed along by a Republican official:
After we lost our jobs, we found out that we were going to lose our health insurance, and that our pensions hadn’t been funded like Bain promised they would be. I was lucky to find another job as a custodian in a local school district. They gave me some health insurance, but I couldn’t afford to buy it for my wife. A little while later she was diagnosed with lung cancer. I had to put her in a county hospital because she didn’t have health care, and when the cancer took her away, all I got was an enormous bill. That put a lot of stress on me: I thought I’d be paying it off until I died myself. That probably wouldn’t have happened if Bain kept its promise and I was allowed to keep our health insurance.
“It’s upsetting what Mitt Romney and his partners did to us,” he added.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
7:53 am

And speaking of filthy liars –

Headline: “Obama camp denies knowledge of cancer tale it told in May”

“But there’s a problem. As Politico first reported, Soptic told essentially the same story in a May 14, 2012, conference call hosted by the Obama campaign.”

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-camp-denies-knowledge-cancer-tale-told-may-195237581.html

TiredOfIt

August 9th, 2012
7:53 am

When will Mitt and the republicans stop with their dog whistle politics?

massachusetts refugee

August 9th, 2012
7:54 am

massachusetts refugee

August 9th, 2012
7:54 am

pea – great minds and all that??

Thomas Heyward Jr.

August 9th, 2012
7:57 am

If one supports the NDAA signing Obama or the NDAA supporting Romney……………then NO…………………………………………you are not an American.
.
You are a traitor……………..to mankind.

Misty Fyed

August 9th, 2012
7:58 am

LIstening to liberals talk about the Bible is always entertaining.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

August 9th, 2012
8:03 am

Misty Fied

Yes, educated discussion regarding the bible is entertaining and how wonderful of you to recognize it.

The bible has such an incredibly interesting history. Who wrote what.
Who selected what material to include. Who editd what when.

It’s fascinating.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

August 9th, 2012
8:04 am

oh and the Christians in the “OT” walked with the dinosaurs.

tee hee hee

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
8:12 am

So the “Cancer ad” scandal is that the Obama campaign had heard this guy’s story?

This is a like:like credibility gap comparable to race-baiting and lying about Obama unilaterally removing work requirements for welfare recipients?

whatevs.

MiltonMan

August 9th, 2012
8:14 am

“I know this is piling on, but just how much of a lying, stinking filthy sack of dog crap do you have to believe that there is but one, or even just a tiny sprinkling, of faithful Muslims who profess a love for all humanity?”

Same reverse argument is used to excuse away the muslim terrorists who took down the WTC whack job – only a “few” terrorists among the billions of “peace loving” muslims. If anyone needs a support group, it is you whack job.

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
8:14 am

if one supports the NDAA signing

heyward, if you’re going to spam us with this every day, you might want to tell the casual reader just what “NDAA” is, and why you happen to be upset about it.

(for what it’s worth, I’m not happy with that status quo either, although I don’t buy for a minute that the answer is to sit out the election and let some Adelson/Koch-funded superPACs buy it.)

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
8:16 am

only a “few” terrorists among the billions of “peace loving” muslims.

Violent fundamentalist a-holes are funadamentalist a-holes wherever you find them. There are more than a “few” within either the Muslim or Christian community. No sane person denies that.

MiltonMan

August 9th, 2012
8:16 am

“This is a like:like credibility gap comparable to race-baiting and lying about Obama unilaterally removing work requirements for welfare recipients?”

Yes, that Obozo is staying well above the fray known as race-baiting.

Hole in the sand please meet ostrich; ostrich please meet hole in the sand.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
8:17 am

“So the “Cancer ad” scandal is that the Obama campaign had heard this guy’s story?”

Yup after they denied knowing anything about it. Filthy liars.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
8:18 am

Just doing my due diligence, stands, to make sure everyone here gets news on both sides.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
8:19 am

“Yup after they denied knowing anything about it. Filthy liars.”

of course, you do know that they have nothing to do with the ad

it didn’t come from the campaign

it doesn’t bear the “I’m Barack Obama and I approve this ad” signoff

but, that’s okay – you guys go into full poutrage if you want to …

MiltonMan

August 9th, 2012
8:20 am

“Violent fundamentalist a-holes are funadamentalist a-holes wherever you find them. There are more than a “few” within either the Muslim or Christian community. No sane person denies that.”

Hey we finally agree on something. I just take issue when one-side states “we are all good” and the other side is “all bad”. I remember seeing young Palestinian punks celebrating in the streets right after 9/11.

philosopher

August 9th, 2012
8:22 am

LIstening to liberals talk about the Bible is always entertaining.

Listening to people claiming to be Christians, using parts and pieces of the Word to puff themselves up and attempt to appear righteous, while ignoring Jesus’ instructions about how to love and care for each other is not entertaining…it is so very, very sad! Jesus’ teaching are deeply liberal…loving, sharing, giving, forgiving, loving, putting others before ourselves, .Painfully difficult principles for wallet worshippers.

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
8:23 am

one-side states “we are all good” and the other side is “all bad”.

of course nobody here is asserting such a thing.

I remember seeing young Palestinian punks celebrating in the streets right after 9/11.

yeah, Fox News made sure you did. Of course, you didn’t see the candlelight vigils held for the victims by thousands of brave residents of Teheran, who were beaten by the fundie a-holes who run the place for such radical displays of compassion.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
8:24 am

” I just take issue when one-side states “we are all good” and the other side is “all bad”.”

ohsweetjeebus on a jetski …

you’re kidding, right???

what do you think YOU’VE been doing all morning???!!!

Thomas Heyward Jr.

August 9th, 2012
8:25 am

“it is so very, very sad! Jesus’ teaching are deeply liberal…loving, sharing, giving, forgiving, loving, putting others before ourselves,”
.
true dat.
Just don’t confuse a liberal with a statist NEO-liberal.(progressive).

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
8:25 am

“you do know that they have nothing to do with the ad”

Yes I know that. And they did try to distance themselves from it (which I give them credit for) and say they knew nothing about this guy.

But now it turns out they DID know about the guy in the ad. Pretty simple lie. But go ahead and give them a pass, seabuscuit. It’s what you’re good at.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
8:26 am

Can’t help but notice that Thulsa failed to address my post that clearly showed his assertion that revenues “went up” after every single tax cut year he mentioned was only half right, and in the latter two that the reason they went up was not due to lowering all the marginal tax rates. Here is the post again:

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/08/08/whos-the-american-here-and-whos-unamerican/?cp=11#comment-1029276

And for a summary:

Basically, tax revenues went up in 1987, the first full year after the Tax Reform Act of 1986. BUT, what Reagan did was actually RAISE taxes on the lower bracket from 11% to 15%, while also lowering the top bracket from 50 to 28%. In addition, Bush had two tax cuts to consider – the ones from 2001 and the ones from 2003. After the 2001 tax cuts, which really WERE a lowering of all the tax brackets, revenue went down and down. But after 2003, they began to go back up, slowly. Looking at the 2003 adjustment has the answer: Bush did what is called (broadening the base). In other words, though the tax brackets remained the same, the amount of people who fell into those brackets was increased across the board by adjusting what income qualifies you for what bracket.

Now, to this:

“No it’s not. Immediate effects of lowering taxes without some offsets causes a dip in revenue.”

I just provided you 4 historical examples of revenues rising and all you say is that it won’t?

I proved the opposite with my post above, which you ignored because you knew I was right.

” If you’re referring to the fact that more and more people enter to taxpaying pool, that happens ANYWAY, and tax payments come in anyway.”

That’s a nonsensical statement. People also drop out of the taxpaying pool all the time. So what. Your point is a non point that makes no sense sir.

I would challenge you to say that to a tax expert. Go ahead. Because your assertion here is basically that people drop out of the taxpaying pool and that offsets the new ones coming in. This is simply not correct.

Nope. Historical FACTS are on my side. All you got is your gibberish.

This, and a couple of other paragraphs in which you assert that you are king of the mountain, are addressed by my post above showing you are incorrect about your assertions, including the king of the mountain assertion. :)

The fact of the matter is that Romney is counting on economic growth to raise revenue.

Economic growth is not enough of a factor to cause a massive increase in revenue, nor does cutting tax rates BY 20 PERCENT while taking economic growth into account raise revenue. It simply is not true that just cutting the rates is enough, and it simply is not true that cutting them all by 20 percent can be made up for by cutting deductions without ALSO raising tax liabilities from the bottom earners and significantly reducing liabilities for everyone else. It is a shift of liability from the top to the bottom, and the Tax Policy Center showed it with a full on study of the subject, whereas all WSJ has is one opinion writer simply asserting the opposite, and adding some numbers to the mix to make you believe it. But the FACTS show that it is nothing more than an ASSUMPTION that economic growth necessarily follows from this. In ALL 4 of your historical examples, only the ones that RAISED taxes on someone, somewhere, increased revenue. The first two saw a significant drop. The third, 1986, worked because Reagan RAISED taxes on the bottom earners by 36% (11% to 15%). And the forth, 2003, was actually making the tax rates that already caused revenue to drop in 2001, cover more people (also known as “broadening the base”).

The FACTS simply don’t support your claim, and like the person in the article, you are just ASSERTING you are right without any solid evidence. I have backed up each of my claims that counter yours. So how do YOU explain the fact that the first two had drops in revenue and the 2001 cuts had SIGNIFICANT drops in revenue?

******************************

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
8:27 am

” I just take issue when one-side states “we are all good” and the other side is “all bad”.”

Amen! A-f’ing-men!!! Neither one of these guys are worth a damn.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
8:27 am

Thulsa: I swear, arguing with you is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what moves I make the pigeon will knock over all the pieces, sh*t on the board, and strut around like it’s victorious.

Look at the above and take it in. But do not even begin to think I am going to address you as long as you continue to act like a pigeon.

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
8:28 am

And before this gets too out of hand, I’m fully aware that Team Obama is going to distort and embellish and quote-out-of-context if they feel they need to, to win. It’s a dirty game and you don’t win by simply remaining above the fray.

Changing that status quo isn’t going to happen within the time boundaries of a general election that’s already well under way. It will take years of haggling over legislation and subsequent court challenges.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
8:28 am

“But now it turns out they DID know about the guy in the ad”

oh, ffs.

they had a conference call with the guy.

and I’ll bet that it’s the ONLY conference call they’ve had ALL QUARTER ,,, and he’s the ONLY guy they’ve talked to.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
8:29 am

Peadawg: Knowing about the guy isn’t that relevant. They did not put him forward as “Romney killed my wife” for a reason. If they knew he existed, what difference does that really make? Especially when the Romney surrogate response is “well if she had lived in Massachusetts she would have had health care”?

Aces & 8's

August 9th, 2012
8:29 am

muhammad drew Aces & 8’s

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
8:29 am

“Neither one of these guys are worth a damn.”

that’s not what he was talking about.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
8:31 am

stands: I think what is great is that Obama does NOT have to go full on out of context to win. At least, he doesn’t THINK he has to do that as much as Romney thinks he has to. For instance:

As we discussed last week, at this point in the race, Republicans aren’t just occasionally taking Obama quotes out of context; they’re actually building their entire 2012 campaign strategy around sentiments the president didn’t actually say. I’ve honestly never seen anything like it.

Let’s start a running count:

1. The Romney campaign took Obama out of context in its very first television ad of the race.

2. When the president told business leaders that U.S. policymakers have been “a little bit lazy” when it comes to attracting businesses to American soil, Republicans took that out of context and launched a series of attacks.

3. When Obama said private-sector job growth is “fine” relative to the public sector, Republicans took that out of context, too.

4. Obama said public institutions help businesses succeed, and Republicans continue to take that out of context.

And 5. Obama said Clinton’s tax policies were better than Bush’s, which the RNC is taking out of context.

Remember, in theory, none of this should be necessary. If the president were the radical leftist his attackers make him out to be, Republicans wouldn’t have to resort to cheap garbage like this. They’d be able to use real Obama quotes and real Obama policies.

Instead, we’re left with ridiculous tactics that treat voters like idiots.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
8:31 am

Remember, in theory, none of this should be necessary. If the president were the radical leftist his attackers make him out to be, Republicans wouldn’t have to resort to cheap garbage like this. They’d be able to use real Obama quotes and real Obama policies.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
8:33 am

USinUK – pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
August 9th, 2012
8:28 am

They still lied. Same goes to you, Adam. Obama’s team still lied about knowing. But keep sugar coating it. A lie is a lie.

“that’s not what he was talking about.”

Woops. :)

RB from Gwinnett

August 9th, 2012
8:36 am

You’ve got to be one pretty naive fool to listen to this one mans comments and give Islam a pass when the evidence around the world with this “religion” tells an entirely different story. Almost every terrorist attack for the last 20 years and almost every war has on thing in common. If you pull your head out, you might be able figure out what it is.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
8:37 am

P-diddy – yeah. because it’s entirely IMplausable that they DON’T remember having a conf call with a guy that they DIDN’T work with.

talk about stretching it

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
8:39 am

“talk about stretching it”

talk about sugar coating it

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
8:40 am

yep. and every desecration of a Jewish cemetary has one thing in common – does that mean we should condemn all Christians???

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
8:41 am

“talk about sugar coating it”

oooooooooo … a conference call with a guy they didn’t work with.

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
8:41 am

because it’s entirely IMplausable that they DON’T remember having a conf call with a guy that they DIDN’T work with.

Let’s imagine how many times Team Obama heard stories in conference calls about people who were screwed over by the health insurance industry. You think it mighta been, oh, coupla dozen maybe?

Paul

August 9th, 2012
8:43 am

RB frm Gwinnett

” Almost every terrorist attack for the last 20 years and almost every war has on thing in common. If you pull your head out, you might be able figure out what it is.”

What’s 20 years compared to 19th and 20th-century European history?

(Hint: just because someone’s born into a religious construct does not mean they understand, follow or are devoted to the construct’s principles. Any more than one being born into a community of Swedish lineage means one really, really likes coffee and cabbage rolls and has a magnetic attraction to Volvos).

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
8:43 am

too much sugar is bad for you, USinUK

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
8:44 am

I do like how our Press Corpse is making “what did did Team Obama know and when did they know it?” into a news.google -worthy “top” story.

Can’t let anyone think you’re in the tank for the Uppity Muslim. Might not get invited to Karl Rove’s home for pheasant.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
8:45 am

“too much sugar is bad for you, USinUK”

yeah, and too much stretching can damage something.

Susan G. Komen, breast cancer foundation, shakes up leadership

August 9th, 2012
8:46 am

The Susan G. Komen for the Cure shook up its top leadership Wednesday announcing the resignation of its president and shifting role for its CEO and founder, Nancy Brinker. Two members of its board of directors also announced their resignations.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/08/13187403-susan-g-komen-breast-cancer-foundation-shakes-up-leadership?lite

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
8:46 am

Paul, just touching on something I saw from you yesterday–I basically agree, I too thought that bit about comparing speculation about Richard Feynman’s thoughts on climate change to posthumous Mormon baptisms was more than just a little out of left field.

Robbie

August 9th, 2012
8:48 am

Update?

Good Christians are always an afterthought with Bookman.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
8:49 am

“yeah”

Thanks for admitting.

Paul

August 9th, 2012
8:50 am

stands

Struck me as sad the incredible reach some will go to use religion as a backhanded swipe at an opposing candidate. After what Pres Obama supporters experienced from Republicans with the Wright controversy, I’d hoped they wouldn’t be so willing to jump into that cesspool, also.

Road Scholar

August 9th, 2012
8:51 am

Just how many wars were fought in the name of religion? Think about it!

Are Americans so insecure about their religion that they have to attack others? Now try to think again!

Paul

August 9th, 2012
8:52 am

sfd

It does become an increasing challenge to keep the rhetoric at a somewhat meaningful level, doesn’t it?

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
8:52 am

Almost every terrorist attack for the last 20 years

RB? Just wondering.

If you were a resident of Baghdad in early 2003, what would you call the barrage of Freedom Bombs sent by Team Bush and his supine, rubber-stamping Congress?

Particularly if, say, half of your own family perished as a result of them?

“Terrorist attack”, maybe? Or would you be worried about appearing too shrill?

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
8:53 am

““yeah”

Thanks for admitting.”

nice.

learn that one from the Romney campaign?

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
8:54 am

Pres Obama supporters experienced from Republicans with the Wright controversy, I’d hoped they wouldn’t be so willing to jump into that cesspool, also.

To be fair, I’ve no idea if that guy I quoted is especially ra-ra for Obama; it just happened to be one fairly recent (May 2012 if memory serves) example of a discussion about those who choose to speculate about dead guys’ takes on climate change.

Paul

August 9th, 2012
8:54 am

Road

Religion’s as good an excuse as any for people who want to impose control over others. If not religion, then…

- who your father was
– who your mother was
- where you live
- where your grandparents live
- cultural differences
- facial differences

etc etc etc

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
8:56 am

PAUL!!!!! where ya been, my friend???

Doggone/GA

August 9th, 2012
8:56 am

“would you call the barrage of Freedom Bombs sent by Team Bush”

I had a discussion with a cousin of mine – ex-Army – about that bombing. He was convinced they were somehow only targeting “the enemy” until I told him that when you are carpet bombing a city from 20,000 feet you don’t have a lot of control over who lives and who dies.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
8:57 am

“nice.”

Thanks.

“learn that one from the Romney campaign?”

Nope. The only thing I’ve learned the past few months from Romney and Obama is they’ll do about anything to get votes.

Paul

August 9th, 2012
8:58 am

sfd

Fair enough on that.

If the author was going to use that line of reasoning, I’d at least have hoped he would have said that even though he’d died, Feynman was converted to the truth about climate change.

;-)

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 9th, 2012
8:58 am

It does become an increasing challenge to keep the rhetoric at a somewhat meaningful level, doesn’t it?

Paul, all I can say is, they haven’t gone to the “what do you think about Mitt Romney signing fifty dollar abortions into law as governor of Massachusetts” push-polling well just yet.

(I’d have gone there a month or two ago, myself. But then nobody’s going to pay me a dime for my crummy political advice.)

Paul

August 9th, 2012
8:59 am

Mornin’, USinUK!!!

Touring this wonderful country for a few weeks.

kayaker 71

August 9th, 2012
9:00 am

I learned all I want to know about Islam on 9/11. This love thy neighbor BS doesn’t work with people who recruit children to strap on bombs and cut the heads off of their enemies, then distribute the tapes for all to see. Those people in TN have every right to protest something that they believe is a threat, short of burning down their church. Last time I looked, Islam isn’t so intent on freedom to worship as you please in most Muslim countries. Take a good look at Saudi Arabia. Think you are going to find a kind, warm understand group of Muslims to share in your religious tolerance? Think those Wahhabbi instructors who are teaching radical Muslim students how to get together for a covered dish supper? And that whole movement is government sponsored and funded. So don’t give me this tolerance BS…… Love thy neighbor? Right.

RB from Gwinnett

August 9th, 2012
9:04 am

Stands. “If you were a resident of Baghdad in early 2003, what would you call the barrage of Freedom Bombs sent by Team Bush”

I think the term you’re looking for is “liberating”. You don’t seem to recall the iraqi’s cheering our troops as they advanced or the cheering as his statue fell in the warped version of history you choose to recall. Not surprising for you though since most liberals have a really hard time with the reality our freedom was paid for with many many lives as well and continues to be to this day.

Simple Math Problem

August 9th, 2012
9:06 am

You don’t seem to recall the iraqi’s cheering our troops as they advanced or the cheering as his statue fell in the warped version of history you choose to recall. Not surprising for you though since most liberals have a really hard time with the reality our freedom was paid for with many many lives as well and continues to be to this day.

________

But who will pick up the tab for the co$t of Iraq’s freedom? How was this war funded?

Doggone/GA

August 9th, 2012
9:08 am

“You don’t seem to recall the iraqi’s cheering our troops as they advanced or the cheering as his statue fell in the warped version of history you choose to recall”

SOME Iraqis cheered, not all of them.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

August 9th, 2012
9:08 am

RB

The cheering lasted until the looting began.

Simple Math Problem

August 9th, 2012
9:10 am

Answer to Simple Math Problem….Rebuild Iraq and let America suffer….our infrastructure, schools and unemployed people!! Americans that are employed continue to pick up the tab and receive nada in return!!!

Simple Math Problem

August 9th, 2012
9:11 am

…can we at least get some cheap gas? (OIL)

DebbieDoRight - Dixie Chicks, Eleanor Roosevelt, Hillary Clinton, and Rosetta Scott King -- Unafraid To Say It; Unafraid To Do The Right Thing...

August 9th, 2012
9:12 am

The Susan G. Komen for the Cure shook up its top leadership Wednesday announcing the resignation of its president and shifting role for its CEO and founder, Nancy Brinker.

That happens when you pizz a bunch of women off. women who have bank accounts and check books and decide to give their money to a worthy charity and not their “governing boards”.

I bet they’ll think twice before they screw over a bunch of women again!

Streetracer

August 9th, 2012
9:13 am

Kinda late to this whole discussion; actually had to work for a living. I haven’t read all the comments, but seems to some folks would do well to improve their knowledge of history. Remember that Islamists held Spain in virtual slavery for 7 centuries. Their invasion was stopped by Pippin The Small ( can’t spell “Charlamange” without looking it up) in about 770 or so, and weren’t driven out until 1490 or so. Everyone who didn’t at least pretend to convert to Islam either fled or was executed. Sounds like a real tolarent religion to me.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
9:14 am

Do we really have someone on here justifying comments that insist that he Muslim RELIGION is a terrorist RELIGION by ALSO justifying the Bush Iraq War with “they greeted us as liberators”????

WTF, pull your head out of your @ss RB

Robert Lee

August 9th, 2012
9:14 am

the cheering lasted until the 200K + plus Iraqi soldiers (who were told to go home, without a job or any means to support their families) got hungry and decided to use any means necessary to feed their families or loot antiquities, or kill that neighbor they didn;t like, or etc, etc, etc.

Yea, W’s team really knew what they were doing on that one. We got those WMD wrapped up quickly and brought the troops back home…………..or right, that’s not what happened at all.

Gale

August 9th, 2012
9:16 am

Debbie, and not just women. The contribution faucet turned off with that ill-considered decision and the flow has not returned. It takes a lot of work to gain peoples’ confidence, and one stupid move to lose it.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
9:16 am

By the way, new Romney ad out that attacks Obama for “waging war on religion.”

This, after the add that he wants to “just send everyone a welfare check”

And that, after the statement saying Obama hates the military and doesn’t want them to vote.

Because really, it’s team OBAMA that doesn’t want to talk about the economy…. Team Romney is all about JOBS, JOBS JOBS!!!

larry

August 9th, 2012
9:16 am

Simple Math Problem

August 9th, 2012
9:10 am

Dont forget , they also get free government health care too. At our expense.

Doggone/GA

August 9th, 2012
9:18 am

“Everyone who didn’t at least pretend to convert to Islam either fled or was executed. Sounds like a real tolarent religion to me.”

and maybe it’s YOU who needs to study history a bit more. Spain was a haven for persecuted Jews during that time. Islam wasn’t (and isn’t) JUST the intolerance of it’s extremists. And Spain was not held in “virtual slavery” – it was a very enlighted state, and many of the books and documents that were lost or destroyed in the rest of Europe survived there. And you might check out the history of Islamic scientists and mathmeticians during that time. We owe many of our bedrock knowledge to them.

Butch Cassidy (I)

August 9th, 2012
9:19 am

kayaker 71 – “I learned all I want to know about Islam on 9/11″

This from the person who just a few weeks ago claimed that black people were better off in the 1920’s than they are today.

Ahem

August 9th, 2012
9:19 am

All citizens of our country are Americans. Some are idiots , but are no less an American than the greatest war hero or most philanthropic. The same would apply to all Somalies, Saudis, Tunisians, Yemenis, Italians, Canadians, etc.

DebbieDoRight - Dixie Chicks, Eleanor Roosevelt, Hillary Clinton, and Rosetta Scott King -- Unafraid To Say It; Unafraid To Do The Right Thing...

August 9th, 2012
9:19 am

k71 – I learned all I want to know about Islam on 9/11. This love thy neighbor BS doesn’t work with people who recruit children to strap on bombs and cut the heads off of their enemies,

Are you this upset against the Irish, (IRA), the Sadinistas (Who Regan supported), and Osama Bin Laden, (who three US Presidents supported)?

Or is your poutrage selective? :roll:

Simple Math Problem

August 9th, 2012
9:19 am

Large amount of funds wasted in rebuilding Iraq
The inspector general says that while he couldn’t pinpoint the amount wasted, it ‘could be substantial.’

WASHINGTON – After years of following the paper trail of $51 billion in U.S. taxpayer dollars provided to rebuild a broken Iraq, the U.S. government can say with certainty that too much was wasted. But it can’t say how much.

In what it called its final audit report, the Office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction Funds on Friday spelled out a range of accounting weaknesses that put “billions of American taxpayer dollars at risk of waste and misappropriation” in the largest reconstruction project of its kind in U.S. history.

“The precise amount lost to fraud and waste can never be known,” the report said.

The auditors found huge problems accounting for the huge sums, but one small example of failure stood out: A contractor got away with charging $80 for a pipe fitting that its competitor was selling for $1.41. Why? The company’s billing documents were reviewed sloppily by U.S. contracting officers or were not reviewed at all.

http://www.pressherald.com/news/nationworld/u_s_-cost-to-rebuild-iraq-took-large-amount-of-wasted-funds_2012-07-14.html

It is about time that we rebuild AMERICA!!

Adam

August 9th, 2012
9:19 am

Islam is a terrorist religion because JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, amirite? :roll:

MC

August 9th, 2012
9:20 am

kayaker71 are you a member of Hammerskin Nation? Your views are so profound. “I learned all I want to know about Islam on 9/11″. Did you learn all you need to know about America and God is on our side at Mi Lai too dumbazz? Go post on VDARE.com kayaker. You’d be proclaimed brilliant there.

Robert Lee

August 9th, 2012
9:20 am

Street Racer, if you’re so knowledgeable about religion, please tell us more about the Inquisition, various Crusades, and how tolerant the Christian church has been throughout history. Oh, and maybe some about how the church allowed pedophiles to run rampant for who knows how long…

St Simons - he-ne-ha

August 9th, 2012
9:21 am

hate has nothing to do with whether you go to church on Sunday
or Friday.

this is a psychological divide, not a religious or political one.

MC

August 9th, 2012
9:22 am

How about all that warm and fuzzy Christianity displayed at Wounded Knee as well kayaker71?

Gale

August 9th, 2012
9:22 am

It is interesting how people are so willing to set aside facts that they have accepted for many years for **facts** that just pop up because the new **fact** supports their bigotry.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 9th, 2012
9:22 am

Doom — “Please explain to me how you take away a tax cut to a poor person who doesn’t pay taxes to begin with. Not only does a poor person not pay taxes but is a net beneficiary of tax credits so is a negative tax recipient. So how do you take away this tax cut to someone who doesn’t pay taxes??? The Adam nonsense forthcoming is gonna be real interesting.”

I loved the part where Doom forgot that those tax credits were Republican proposals. :D

one and only

August 9th, 2012
9:24 am

hey, I would like ur own E-mail address so I can forward something to u

DebbieDoRight - Dixie Chicks, Eleanor Roosevelt, Hillary Clinton, and Rosetta Scott King -- Unafraid To Say It; Unafraid To Do The Right Thing...

August 9th, 2012
9:26 am

Gale – Word.
=============================

You don’t seem to recall the iraqi’s cheering our troops as they advanced

I recall that!! Hey, quick question, are they cheering NOW?

=============================
Adam: By the way, new Romney ad out that attacks Obama for “waging war on religion.” This, after the add that he wants to “just send everyone a welfare check” And that, after the statement saying Obama hates the military and doesn’t want them to vote.

You forgot Obama’s “War” (Racism) On Whites. Even though he’s half white….

Because really, it’s team OBAMA that doesn’t want to talk about the economy…. Team Romney is all about JOBS, JOBS JOBS!!!

He forgot to say all his Jobs, Jobs, JOBS!! will be overseas. Vote Romney!! So that your job can be outsourced to China or India too!!!

Adam

August 9th, 2012
9:27 am

Gale: It is interesting how people are so willing to set aside facts that they have accepted for many years for **facts** that just pop up because the new **fact** supports their bigotry.

OR, to accept facts suddenly that they thought were not real, like the FACT that Bill Clinton made a work requirement for welfare and set a time limit. Now that the Romney campaign wants to LIE about the new HHS policy, they are willing to let everyone know that there is, in fact, a work requirement. Most of these people thought there were still “welfare queens” all over the country with Escalades and iPhones and steak dinners. Ah yes, the good life that ANYONE can have if theyr’e just willing not to work…. oh wait.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
9:27 am

Romney needs to release his tax because it’s all about JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, amirite?

“Romney would take health care back to 1950s” because it’s all about JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, amirite?

Romneyhood because it’s all about JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, amirite?

Adam

August 9th, 2012
9:29 am

DDR: “Vote for me because of my business experience…..

….which is none of your DAMN BUSINESS!”

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
9:30 am

Peadawg – 9:27 – wow. he really likes Steve Jobs.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
9:31 am

“Peadawg – 9:27 – wow. he really likes Steve Jobs.”

Same goes for Adam @ 9:16 and 9:19.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
9:31 am

Peadawg: I think you missed the fact that the Romney campaign has been accusing Obama of doing anything and everything to avoid talking about the economy, but then the Romney camp won’t talk about the economy. The Obama campaign has always been about more than just “it’s the economy, you stupid voter.”

Therefore, even if I accepted Tu Quoque as an argument, your argument still doesn’t fly.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

August 9th, 2012
9:33 am

” “Please explain to me how you take away a tax cut to a poor person who doesn’t pay taxes to begin with.Not only does a poor person not pay taxes but is a net beneficiary of tax credits so is a negative tax recipient. So how do you take away this tax cut to someone who doesn’t pay taxes???”

MMMMMMM the 47%.

made up of the poorest in America and in 2009 included approximately
1500 millionaires (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/09inalcr.pdf)….
and maybe 1 presidential candidate

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 9th, 2012
9:33 am

Had to do some work so I was out a bit. Just cycling through the posts I missed, I’m struck at the “He lied” stance on the ad about the guys wife dying after Romney did his thing.

The ad is a powerful thing and the response of the Romney worker is powerfully,,,shall we say, dumb? But because the ad is so powerful and true, the only thing the other side can come up with is, “Obama lied”, or “Well, if he lived in Massachusetts…”

Give me a break. With a staff like that, They are shooting ol’ Mitt in the foot…and I hope they stocked up on bullets… ;)

kayaker 71

August 9th, 2012
9:33 am

All of you tolerant liberals fail to mention the gazillions of dollars and time spent to protect ourselves form a Muslim threat. Think those f-16s who patrol both of our coasts are protecting us from Southern Baptists? Think that you have to take your shoes off in the security line at an airport because some Episcopalian took flying lessons on how to fly into tall buildings? I wonder how much money and resources are spent by our intelligence agencies learning all they can about potential Muslim plots to protect this country. If you bleeding heart liberals would get your head out of the sand (or wherever else it might be) and look at reality, we might just be a safer country.

RB from Gwinnett

August 9th, 2012
9:35 am

Adam, rational people can distinguish between the iraqi people and saddams army. You do realize we were never at war with the Iraqi people don’t you? oh, never mind…

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

August 9th, 2012
9:35 am

You don’t seem to recall the iraqi’s cheering our troops as they advanced or the cheering as his statue fell

Yeah, my granparents are dead from American bombs, all my childrewn are dead. My wife is maimed. But yeah, that is sooooo liberating!

RB doesn’t recall that those cheering throngs were staged. Whenever they pointed the camera the other way the people were standing still and looking really pissed.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 9th, 2012
9:35 am

Adam,
Ol’ Mitt will also dance any jig he can to avoid attention on his taxes. “Show me the money, Mitt”, should be the Democrat bumper sticker.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 9th, 2012
9:35 am

K71 — “I learned all I want to know about Islam on 9/11.”

Given the level of time and effort you no doubt invested in your medical education, I’m sure you don’t need to be reminded that any ‘education’ you received on a major world religion in a single day is woefully inadequate.

Besides, your hero, President Bush, clearly said that islam didn’t attack us, that we weren’t at war with islam and that islam’s teachings were “peaceful and good.” Time for your head to explode now, Champ.

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

August 9th, 2012
9:36 am

we were never at war with the Iraqi people

Sure, except that the majority of Iraqi’s killed since 2003 have been civilians.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
9:36 am

Please explain to me how you take away a tax cut to a poor person who doesn’t pay taxes to begin with.

I forgot about this. See, the devil is in the deductions and credits. Remove deductions and credits that MAKE the lowest 47% possible, and suddenly they pay taxes. Just what you guys want. But really, THAT comes at the expense of making the overall taxes that the rich pay lower, by also messing with credits and deductions along with the tax rates. At least, if you want to be revenue neutral.

Why don’t you guys just admit you want the poor to pay more taxes and the rich to pay less. It’s what Reagan did in 1986.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
9:38 am

“All of you tolerant liberals fail to mention the gazillions of dollars and time spent to protect ourselves form (sic) a Muslim threat.”

and before that, it was a Soviet / Communist threat.

and before THAT, it was the threat from the Axis countries

and before THAT it was the Huns

and before THAT …

your fear has been ginned up so that the military industrial complex can continue taking your money.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
9:38 am

RB: Adam, rational people can distinguish between the iraqi people and saddams army. You do realize we were never at war with the Iraqi people don’t you? oh, never mind…

From your comments, it would appear that you are not a rational person, as you do not see the difference between someone from Saddam’s Army and an Iraqi person if they are both Muslim. Both Muslim, therefore both evil terrorists, based on what your comments say.

The Thin Guy

August 9th, 2012
9:39 am

Next up on the left wing monger’s hate list: Pizza Dude.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/9458500/Pizza-Hut-in-Pakistan-ditches-all-you-can-eat-Ramadan-offer-to-curb-unrestrained-gluttony.html

We should have exactly the same number of mosques in the United States as there are churches and synagogues in Saudi Arabia.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
9:40 am

Adam
August 9th, 2012
9:31 am

Yeah I wish the negative ads from BOTH sides would stop. I would love for Romney and Obama to focus on the economy and jobs. But that’s politics….

Adam

August 9th, 2012
9:40 am

The Thin Guy: I think we should have just as many churches as you would “allow” mosques in this country.

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

August 9th, 2012
9:41 am

Classified US military documents released by WikiLeaks in October 2010, record Iraqi and Coalition military deaths between January 2004 and December 2009.[1][3][4][5][10][10][11] The documents record 109,032 deaths broken down into “Civilian” (66,081 deaths), “Host Nation” (15,196 deaths),”Enemy” (23,984 deaths), and “Friendly” (3,771 deaths).[7][12]

Joe Hussein Mama

August 9th, 2012
9:41 am

K71 — “Think those f-16s who patrol both of our coasts are protecting us from Southern Baptists? Think that you have to take your shoes off in the security line at an airport because some Episcopalian took flying lessons on how to fly into tall buildings?”

Think those security cameras outside courthouses and other Federal buildings are out there because of muslims?

Nope. They’re there because of what one nice christian boy named Tim did with a Ryder truck.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
9:41 am

It would be great if they would talk about the economy. It would be especially great if the one who talks the loudest about how any time we aren’t talking about the economy is a distraction, would actually then talk about the economy.

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

August 9th, 2012
9:43 am

For every 1 enemy combatant killed, 3 civilians were killed.

MC

August 9th, 2012
9:45 am

Maybe those F-16s are protecting us from you and all the other Wade Michael Page wannabees kayaker71.

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

August 9th, 2012
9:45 am

Kayaker, go hang out in the lobby of an abortion clinic and see how long you last. You’ll be staring out the window watching every vehicle that passes just waiting for the explosion.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
9:46 am

“It would be great if they would talk about the economy.”

Probably won’t happen except during the debates. Negative ads from both sides will probably just keep getting worse.

I don’t play the game saying one side’s wrong and the other side is wronger.

massachusetts refugee

August 9th, 2012
9:46 am

thin guy – well sure, ’cause we wanna be just like saudi arabia…

Doggone/GA

August 9th, 2012
9:46 am

“We should have exactly the same number of mosques in the United States as there are churches and synagogues in Saudi Arabia”

Or, in other words, we should be exactly as INTOLERANT as they are. Sorry, but our Constitution forbids that.

getalife

August 9th, 2012
9:46 am

kay is still scared to death of aq.

cons are cowards.

Always have been and always will be.

There is no Muslim threat, just a small gang coward.

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

August 9th, 2012
9:48 am

As of November 4, 2006, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees estimated that 1.8 million Iraqis had been displaced to neighboring countries, and 1.6 million were displaced internally, with nearly 100,000 Iraqis fleeing to Syria and Jordan each month.[64]

You might be alive but you aint got no house no more! Thanks America! I feel soooooo LIBERATED!

MC

August 9th, 2012
9:49 am

Is the American soldier that killed all those innocent children in multiple villages not long ago representative of all of us too kayaker71, like the 9/11 hijackers are of all Muslims? Keep braying burro.

DebbieDoRight - Dixie Chicks, Eleanor Roosevelt, Hillary Clinton, and Rosetta Scott King -- Unafraid To Say It; Unafraid To Do The Right Thing...

August 9th, 2012
9:52 am

$80 for a pipe fitting that its competitor was selling for $1.41. Why? The company’s billing documents were reviewed sloppily by U.S. contracting officers or were not reviewed at all.

Google Cheney and No Bid Contracts to find your culprit.

Adam – NOTHING about Romney is our business it seems! The only thing we’re allowed to know about him is that he’s Mormon. He won’t even tell us why he has those crazy looking Jim Jones eyes.

Jim Jones (Peoples Temple) eyes:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ralphmag.org/GV/jim-jones300×300.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.ralphmag.org/GV/jonestown.html&h=300&w=300&sz=25&tbnid=CkOOFE8N0b4b5M:&tbnh=86&tbnw=86&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpicture%2Bof%2BJim%2BJones%2Bpreacher%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=picture+of+Jim+Jones+preacher&usg=__NfR34JY1t0971Fk7TsFmPEXkYmk=&hl=en&sa=X&ei=b78jUKYu0POyBorDgfgG&ved=0CBkQ9QEwBA

Romney’s eyes:
http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Mitt+Romney/2012+Olympic+Games+Opening+Ceremony/br89ZEsyHMt

Can you see the insane delusional fervor in both these guys’ eyes? It downright scary……

[shiver...]

Thomas Heyward Jr.

August 9th, 2012
9:53 am

The million plus women and children murdered in Iraq were for the benefit of the WORST religion of all………………………..Statism.
.
Nothing but a drop to all of its victims in the last 100 years.

Recon 0311 2533

August 9th, 2012
9:53 am

The left wing belief that you should love your enemies seemingly follows that same precept Jesus set forth in the Bibles New Testament. The problem is that their full belief is love your enemies and hate the majority of your fellow countryman.

Paul

August 9th, 2012
9:55 am

Morning, Normal 9:33

Morning Joe on MSNBC talked about this quite a bit this morning. Pointed out the guy’s wife got cancer about six years after layoff, Romney was heading he Olympics and… the guy’s wife had health insurance thru her own job.

Consensus of all the panelists, including Mika Brzezinski, was that the Obama campaign and its surrogates (including Robert Gibbs, who was on yesterday) should unequivocally say the add is misleading and move on.

They showed clips of Priorities USA founder Bill Burton getting hammered on CNN yesterday Wolf Blitzer didn’t let him off the hook. It wasn’t pretty.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/priorities-usa-founder-defends-romney-killed-my-wife-ad/

MC

August 9th, 2012
9:55 am

You seem soooo concerned about your safety kayaker71. Crawl under your bed and cower. The rest of us will coexist with our neighbors that don’t see a boogeyman behind every bush. Grow a set too kayaker71. You were exactly who ole Ben Franklin was talking about when he said those that would trade freedom for security deserves neither. Keep braying burro.

Brosephus™

August 9th, 2012
9:56 am

Don’t know if this one has been brought up here, and maybe Jay can expound on it later…

http://www.thenation.com/blog/169284/ohio-early-voting-cutbacks-disenfranchise-minority-voters#

Now, in heavily Democratic cities like Cleveland, Columbus, Akron and Toledo, early voting hours will be limited to 8 am until 5 pm on weekdays beginning on October 1, with no voting at night or during the weekend, when it’s most convenient for working people to vote. Republican election commissioners have blocked Democratic efforts to expand early voting hours in these counties, where the board of elections are split equally between Democratic and Republican members. Ohio Republican Secretary of State Jon Husted has broken the tie by intervening on behalf of his fellow Republicans.

‘I cannot create unequal access from one county board to another, and I must also keep in mind resources available to each county,” Husted said in explaining his decision to deny expanded early voting hours in heavily Democratic counties. Yet in solidly Republican counties like Warren and Butler, GOP election commissioners have approved expanded early voting hours on nights and weekends. Noted the Cincinnati Enquirer: “The counties where Husted has joined other Republicans to deny expanded early voting strongly backed then-candidate Barack Obama in 2008, while most of those where the extra hours will stand heavily supported GOP nominee John McCain.” Moreover, budget constraints have not stopped Republican legislators from passing costly voter ID laws across the map since 2010.

Ohio is blatantly stomping on voter rights. Anybody who votes GOP in Ohio in this election should be ashamed of themselves. Women marched for their rights, Blacks marched for their rights, and now a few people are conspiring to shortchange those rights in order for their party to win an election. I generally don’t like a top down approach to things, but geez, somebody needs to stop these attempts at limiting people’s access to ballots when they appear nothing but partisaned attempts to swing elections.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 9th, 2012
9:57 am

Special Delivery for K71:

http://home.assets.gocomics.com/doonesbury/1982/08/26

The cartoon was aimed at the Israel-Lebanon conflict that was going on at the time (30 years ago), but I trust that K71 is smart enough to make the connection between “baby terrorists” and what he’s raging about today.

TaxPayer

August 9th, 2012
9:57 am

I see the cons are back to attempting to project their hate of others on others.

saywhat?

August 9th, 2012
10:00 am

Well recon, maybe the left should take the right’s lead and consider most of their fellow Americans to be enemies. Would that make you happy?

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:01 am

Peadawg: I don’t play the game saying one side’s wrong and the other side is wronger.

Depending on the subject, such a statement would be accurate.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
10:01 am

Brosephus™
August 9th, 2012
9:56 am

Yeah that is pretty shady. If it was across all counties then it’d be ok…I guess. But selective counties? No.

What do you think about Obama throwing a hissy b/c military personnel get 3 extra days to vote?

Doggone/GA

August 9th, 2012
10:01 am

“I see the cons are back to attempting to project their hate of others on others”

“back to”? When did they ever stop?

Joe Hussein Mama

August 9th, 2012
10:02 am

T. Payer — “I see the cons are back to attempting to project their hate of others on others.”

It’s always some sort of undefined fear and discomfort of different ‘others’ with them, isn’t it?

Personally, even when I was still a con, I always enjoyed traveling the world, meeting different people, learning about their cultures, their foods, and even learning a bit of their languages. To this day, I don’t know why they have to insist on treating different ‘others’ as some sort of existential threat.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
10:03 am

“Depending on the subject, such a statement would be accurate.” – Not when both are wrong to begin with. But keep playing your wittle game though.

Shawny

August 9th, 2012
10:03 am

It must be challenging to dig up only the GOPers that oppose them and filter out the non-GOPers. Exhausting.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

August 9th, 2012
10:04 am

“You might be alive but you aint got no house no more! Thanks America! I feel soooooo LIBERATED!”

dammit, now you’ve made me picture them running through fields of daisies, talking about how they can swim and ride horses without worrying …

(the wimmen on this blog will understand that reference)

Erwin's cat

August 9th, 2012
10:05 am

Sure, except that the majority of Iraqi’s killed since 2003 have been civilians.

likely killed by Iraqis or AQ

theintelligentdesigner

August 9th, 2012
10:05 am

Somewhere, way back in the blog containing multitudes, ty webb made an almost intelligent comment. I know, wow. The god of Abraham, no matter how constellated, is intolerant and brutal. Hard core fundies, whether Muslim, Christian, or Jew, openly express hatred for homosexuals and women (and many others, of course). That that doesn’t make any sense does not matter. And so ty’s post points out that the Fried Fila’ers ought to pass out free salt and fat arterial cloggers to any and all Muslims who hate gays. How cool would it be to see Tea Bag Christians kissing middle class jihadist at the Chic-Blahblah? All this bigotry could be ended overnight. Well, toned down a bit, if Christians, Muslims, Jews, and all the other half baked superstitions had to pay their taxes, there would not be much of a space for their hatred to propagate. I’m not suggesting they shouldn’t propagate or quietly slink into the darkest corner of their dens, just pay up.

JamVet

August 9th, 2012
10:06 am

71, MUCH too long.

Brevity is your friend.

The only good Muslim is a dead Muslim.

You’re welcome…

MC

August 9th, 2012
10:07 am

So what is it exactly that you are saying Recon 0311 2533? That our enemies are all peoples not exactly like us? What makes someone our enemy Recon? And therefore since by your definition they are our enemy that maybe it’s ok to shoot them up in church or burn their churches to the ground. The old if you can’t win their hearts and minds, burn their damn huts down philosophy. Is that what you advocate? WWJD Recon? Obviously he was way too liberal for you to embrace him.

kayaker 71

August 9th, 2012
10:11 am

Latest stats….. 100,000,000 Americans are now on welfare or some other public government assistance. 8.3% of Americans, more like 13-14% are out of work….. this has been the case for the last 42 months. Growth is stalled at 1.5% with no hope of increasing anytime soon. Those on food stamps up 41% since Bozo took office. Record debt at close to 16T with unfunded mandates to the states at close to 84T dollars. Housing still in the tank with underwater homes and foreclosures at an all time high. New Flash, liberals….. we are broke, dead broke and as a nation, it doesn’t seem to be getting any better. And you are all caught up on whether or not Islam is getting a fair shake in TN. Damn….. just damn.

Doggone/GA

August 9th, 2012
10:12 am

“The god of Abraham, no matter how constellated, is intolerant and brutal”

Actually, that’s not true. The dual nature of God (as loving and hating) is pervasive throughout both the OT and the NT

Recon 0311 2533

August 9th, 2012
10:13 am

Lets see now it seems that many left wingers if not most as evidenced on Jay’s blog just love Muslims, while hating Christians who represent 70% plus of the nations population. Makes you wonder if far left liberalism is some kind of a genetic disorder or if maybe modern medicine can one day find a cure for it.

theintelligentdesigner

August 9th, 2012
10:15 am

hating is hating. thanks, pay your taxes.

Adam

August 9th, 2012
10:15 am

Peadawg: What do you think about Obama throwing a hissy b/c military personnel get 3 extra days to vote?

Well, I don’t know about Brosephus, but I am of the understanding that is not at all what happened. Would you like to know what really happened?

Joe Hussein Mama

August 9th, 2012
10:15 am

Paul

August 9th, 2012
10:18 am

Recon

“Lets see now it seems that many left wingers if not most as evidenced on Jay’s blog just love Muslims, while hating Christians ”

Never too late for trolling, is it?

kayaker 71

August 9th, 2012
10:18 am

recon, 10:13,

Far left liberalism is a disease….. no cure in sight.

Joe Hussein Mama

August 9th, 2012
10:18 am

Recon — “Lets see now it seems that many left wingers if not most as evidenced on Jay’s blog just love Muslims”

I don’t “love” muslims. I’m just not shaking-in-my-boots terrified of them.

“while hating Christians who represent 70% plus of the nations population.”

I don’t hate christians, either. I’m just not going to kiss their collective behind and live my life the way some of the noisier ones demand I live it.

“Makes you wonder if far left liberalism is some kind of a genetic disorder or if maybe modern medicine can one day find a cure for it.”

Actually, it makes me wonder if making crazy crap up about others is part of the Republican mindset or if it’s just something common to the cons that post here.

Paul

August 9th, 2012
10:18 am

theintelligentdesigner

August 9th, 2012
10:22 am

the 70% appear to be inbred.

Peadawg

August 9th, 2012
10:22 am

“Would you like to know what really happened?”

I know exactly what happened, Adam.

MC

August 9th, 2012
10:32 am

Just exactly who here on this blog today has said they hate Christians or that Christians are their enemy Recon? Specifics please. It seems the only posters that have uttered the word enemy in regard to any religious group is kayaker71.

MC

August 9th, 2012
10:40 am

What makes someone our “enemy” anyway Recon? And does not marching in lockstep like a flock of lemmings with the right wing fascists and theocrats constitute “hate”.? And really Recon. You should be thankful for the tolerance of those to the left of your Atilla the Hun set of values. Otherwise they might decide to shoot you up or burn your house down in the middle of the night.

saywhat?

August 9th, 2012
6:38 pm