The self-induced paralysis of Georgia government

I know, I know! Lower taxes and give tax breaks to business so they will come here. Water? Who needs that. Leaking infrastructure? Who cares. Congested traffic? Make wider roads. We don’t need no mass transit! No problem.

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it’s obama’s fault…

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Our current prosperity is largely a result of past investments in infrastructure. Hartsfield Airport, the interstate system, etc. How morons like Chip Rogers think that we can grow our economy when we refuse to invest in infrastructure is beyond me.

Atlanta – sadly – will no longer be the leader of the New South.

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When did Macgyvered become a verb and if so why must it be capitalized? If it’s a verb, then it isn’t capitalized. But it’s a show’s name, so it’s capitalized. A capitalized verb. That must have caused some discussion in the office. It would have when we started, I’m sure.

Oh. Good column. It’s up to Georgians to decide when and if they want new political leadership, and up to good people to stand up and take the beatings from the establishment until the people make that decision. It’s called democracy.

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“Georgia political leaders have succeeded in delegitimizing government as a tool for fixing not just transportation but a whole range of problems, including education. They have led the crusade to destroy public faith in the institutions that they themselves lead, and as a result those institutions have become increasingly useless.”
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At least these guys are doing something right………………..and those institutions were really never exactly “useful” to begin with.

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Great article Jay.

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from GG’s linked TNR article:

The Georgia experience matters nationally for a simple reason: Since 2008, the GOP and its business allies have energized its movement-conservative base (rechristened as the Tea Party Movement) to savagely fight for radically reduced public spending. Now, when increased public investments and the revenues necessary to pay for them are obviously essential to keep a state economy growing, Republicans can no longer dial back the rhetoric, or even count on Democratic voters to help bail them out.

See also: Sowing reapage, chicken homing.

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Illinois is governed by 99% Democratics. They have very high taxes, toll roads, unions, very broke pension funds and many other negatives. Let’s not copy them.

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So what is the point Jay? That our political leaders are inadequate in your opinion and we should give them more money? Or, that our political leaders should demonstrate adequate skills by using the money they already receive more wisely?

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$0.27. That is what the state tax on a gallon of gas needs to be to equal the gas tax of the 70s and 80s, based on the concept of MPG. But this is no longer a valid way to raise money for transportation. With a Chevy Volt 80% of my driving goes untaxed. We need a new tax structure based on how many miles a vehicle is driven. There are several problems with this approach. In addition to being burdensome to collect we miss those tax dollars of the snowbirds who buy gas on their way between there homes in the frozen north and sunny Fl.

The ball is in the legislatures court. Be bold, be brave and raise the tax on fuel, or continue to be the gutless wonders that you have shown yourselves to be , stick your head in the sand and do nothing.

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Jay:

You have mistaken the failure of the T-SPLOST to win voter approval with a lacking of a funding mechanism to address traffic congestion projects. Nothing could be further from the truth. Voters are perfectly willing to fund projects that will actually address traffic congestion. Regrettably the project list that was put forth would have done nothing to improve traffic congestion while dumping billions into economic development instead. An expert in support of the T-SPLOST from the Brookings Institute even admitted that transit projects will not improve traffic congestion and their purpose is economic development.

Since voters were forced to vote on a economic development plan disguised as relief of traffic congestion, we said no. Get the engineers together and come up with a plan that will address traffic congestion, be completed in ten years when such a tax expires and excludes economic development (a.k.a. transit) and it will pass voter scrutiny. If transit supporters feel so strongly about adding transit infrastructure then propose those projects, the funding mechanism for both the capital expenditure and ongoing expenses and let the voters decide.

Over 90% of people in metro Atlanta agree that traffic congestion is an issue. We know what the problem is and are willing to do something about. Stop trying to boondoggle the people with graft and pork laden legislation. We are a lot smarter than we are given credit for!

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Two things should be done immediately:
1. Educate the public in regards to slow traffic moving right. This would open up the flow of traffic, and allow traffic to get to its destination, thereby reducing the number of vehicles on the road. It would also eliminate the dangerous clusters of vehicles you get when traffic backs up behind those slow people in the inside lanes.
2. Open up those HOV lanes to regular traffic. That would give you 20% more highway space, and it’s already there.

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One other caveat of a motor fuel tax increase would be the elimination of the politically appointed Transportation Czar and return the planning, design, and implementation to the professionals.

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“Educate the public in regards to slow traffic moving right. This would open up the flow of traffic, and allow traffic to get to its destination, thereby reducing the number of vehicles on the road. It would also eliminate the dangerous clusters of vehicles you get when traffic backs up behind those slow people in the inside lanes.”

Amen.

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yeah, so what’s the big deal… they only wanted just a little more money.

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And yet… people keep electing them. The current state of affairs is not the fault of the Republican Party. They’re just being Republicans. The current state of affairs is the fault of the Democratic Party, which has been strangely silent and ineffective for quite a while now. One could wonder if the Georgia Democratic organization had been taken over in secret by a Republican fifth column, or at least paid large sums of money to remain useless. Might be a juicy AJC story, there.

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Correct- our Republican run state gov’t is “less than adequate”.

Thank goodness the democratic led City of Atlanta has been a shining light over the decades?????

Is anyone else following that the lottery is low on funds, cutting education funding, while announcing record receipts and continuing to put out the most horrible commercials.

For those who are narrow minded- blame the “other” party. For those who are truly liberal, bright thinkers, continue to blame and work to improve both parties.

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generally agree Jay

MARTA could use some reforming though.

But that’s not overly relevant to the need for more infrastructure.

Get your keyboards ducktaped to your steering wheel. You’ll have to be working behind the wheel for a long time

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Ken:

Leave aside the fact that Illinois was a Republican-leaning swing state until very recently, or that Illinois is not nearly the basket case that the GOP only began to claim it was when Obama was elected, and will cease baiting the state when Obama is no longer in office, you are playing the common game of using one extreme (Illinois) against another (Georgia). In the process, you are ignoring the huge, vast middle ground that exists.

Georgia is 49th in transportation spending. Meaning behind some very conservative states like Texas, Florida and Utah. And behind very sparsely populated states like Kansas, Nebraska, the Dakotas … states that have 3 or fewer congressmen. And I don’t buy the “corruption/politicians haven’t earned our trust” nonsense. Show me the state where its politicians are squeaky clean, absent scandal and exhibit a top level of competence.

Now personally, I would rather money be spent on education – magnet schools for K-12 and universities – so that we can grow our own jobs rather than try to beg, borrow, bribe and steal them from somewhere else. Most of the economic boom from the 70s to the 90s were companies that Georgia Tech, Emory and UGA grads started. We need to get back to that. But conservatives need to quit it with the intellectually dishonest arguments. Working to remain competitive with other states economically is not big government for big government’s sake.

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The real taxing problem here is not the state income tax, it is the Federal income tax.

Couple that with property taxes, car tag taxes, and whatever else the governments concoct to collect “taxes”, it is clear that folks are fed up with all the multiple-dipping in our pockets for their cut of “taxes”.

The problem is that the forefathers did not put into the constitution a clause which stated that:

“Any and all taxes collected from any level of government combined shall not exceed 10% of total gross individual income in one calendar year.”

That one clause could have virtually guaranteed solvent government budgets because they would be forced to. It would have been the one way that government could have kept themselves honest.

But they had no way of knowing that governments refuse to run to budgets.

The other issue is the quality and honesty of politicians themselves, which is haphazard at best. Term limits need to be insituted, and elimination of PAC’s and other lobbyists and special-interest groups would at least make it appear less dishonest.

No faith in the quality of politician now.

I could go on and on but you get my drift.

I could c

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The people aren’t stupid. They can drive around Atlanta and the State and see Federal & State DOT money being thrown away with both hands. They can read the TspLOST project list and realize there was very little in there that would help their situation. Clearly a failure in leadership.

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Transit Hypocrisy

The Sierra Club’s Smart Growth approach is what Randall Pozdena called “The New Segregation.”

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Brosephus™:

Crumbling infrastructure? Really? That bastion of conservative thought CNBC ranks GA 3rd in the nation in its most recent state rankings (even discussed in AJC the last week of July). Broken schools? In Atlanta certainly but there are many many more whose teachers care about educating their students and do an outstanding job doing so. Water management could be better but keep in mind the federal government is involved there so it is not as easy as we might think.

Does Georgia have areas for improvement? Absolutely! Is the state in the condition you describe? Hardly!

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Don’t you just love the people that think traffic jams are caused by slow drivers? Tailgating and rapid lane switching cause as much traffic problems as slow people in the fast lane. You just can’t push but so many cars down the same pipe at a time.

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2 things Butch-

1) don’t really need you to come to Atlanta
2) we could implement a migration tax for underperforming northerners who continue to move to Atlanta- problem(s) solved

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I want to know how we train managers that many jobs can be performed very productively from home, or satellite office, thus avoiding traffic. That would take a lot of cars off the roads.

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ken
August 8th, 2012
8:11 am

You speak negatively about my beloved Illinois, but you can catch a train in South Bend, IN, Milwaukee or Madison, WI and commute all the way to downtown Chicago. And I bet you’ll be home before most people here can get off 575.

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Well the leadership has been Sonny Purdue, ,who worked wonders spending 20 million on a fish farm in his district……… worked on road building adjacent to his personal properties, along with continuing of the GA 400 toll, and over spending for a big tract of GA property.

Sonny also doubled his self worth while in the Governors chair, all while the recession was in full swing, and boy getting info on those iffy personal loans has been impossible.

Now we have Nathan Deal, who lied to the state about his personal finances, or he would not be the Governor today, most likely losing the run off.

With this type of leadership at the top..how is the state to move forward ?

Apparently Republican voters don’t care, as they are the ones controlling the eventual out come for the state currently.

Again the party of the rich, and the lemmings that support them, are concerned about cars, roads, and forget about anything else…..especially any real improvement to mass transit, while the Atlanta regional area, becomes the example of what not to do, to attract Corporations, and real economic growth.

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a link to the Chris Sanchez CNBC rating….

http://www.cnbc.com/id/46413842

see where we rate in other areas

not nearly as cut and dried as he would have it seem.

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Place

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Jay, you hit the nail on the head. The Republicans got into power not just in Georgia, but nationally, by convincing voters that government is the enemy. Now that they’re in power, they can’t govern because the public has no faith in government.

At the same time, the GOP very successfully “educated” voters that all taxes are evil. The T-SPLOST vote reflects that. If you can’t levy taxes, you can’t govern.

Now the GOP majority is caught in a trap of its own making.

This is by no means to say that the Democrats are better stewards of tax dollars, or that Democrats did not follow the GOP program and rant against taxes and government in general. All the General Assembly has to do to get adequate funding for transportation is raise its motor fuels tax. Would anyone notice at the pump much of a difference if the state DOUBLED its motor fuels tax? Probably not, but that wouldn’t keep millions of Georgians from heart palpitations should such a move be proposed.

The means to fund transportation are here. The problem is voters don’t trust their government, thanks to decades of the GOP telling us the government is the enemy and a decade of proving it to us by their actions once they got in control.

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Don’t you just love the people that think traffic jams are caused by slow drivers?

Hey, at least we haven’t had the “if they just timed the traffic lights! it costs nothing! that’d go a long way for realz!” post. Yet.

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Georgia natives(of which I am one)who live outside the metro area couldn’t care less about Marta. Most have probably never rode a Marta train or bus and would choose other means of transportation even if Marta was available. Of the 5 million plus people in the metro area(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_metropolitan_area) it seems only a low percentage had enough confidence in Marta to cast a yes vote on July 31st. Quite simply, this was a vote of no confidence in Marta. If the Marta funding portion were taken out of the vote it would have had a better chance of passing. I still think it would have been voted down.

I’ve lived in Georgia over 35 years and I’ve rode a Marta train once. Ask other native Georgians how many times they have rode Marta and I bet it’s very few. It’s dirty, poorly ran, and has too much crime.(http://www.itsmarta.com/crime-comparison.aspx)

No, thank you.

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I still think Jay owns some land along a proposed MARTA route.

So, it could never be mere enlightened self-interest that drives an opinion columnist to advocate on behalf of this or that measure? it’s likely some crass, direct financial reward?

Is that your default position when you read stuff from the left AND from the right, or just from the left?

Or is it just Jay who’s so crass, in your mind?

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Really, Jay? First of all, the size of the state’s annual budget … not its comparison to the state’s GNP has grown significantly since 1992. Secondly, maybe it was manner in which T-SPOLT funds would be appropriated was the problem it failed. Lastly, every liberal’s first response has always been “to raise taxes.” Or, Jay in your case, to support a tax increase. Maybe a more prudent approach would be to revise the antiquated congressional district spending approach by GDOT. Just saying…

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stands:

Lighten up. Ever heard of satire?

P.S.

Government is not the enemy ………. but sometimes it is not a friend.

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Nice article Mr. Bookman! Do you have a list of the contractors and how they are affiliated with the politicians that were rallying for the TSPLOST? The people of this state realize that we do have a transportation problem but feel as if they would not be benefiting from more roads and less transit. I am a Democrat and voted against the TSPLOST. I would rather have my pennies going towards the education of our kids! If Governor Deal feels as if he wants to slam the door on creating another referendum, then let it be. Maybe we can elect a Governor that has the interest of the people of this state instead of looking out for the best interest of their families and friends!!

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ken- Illinois is governed by 99% Democratics. They have very high taxes, toll roads, unions, very broke pension funds and many other negatives. Let’s not copy them.

Already working on that at the federal level (same crooks running both oporations). No problem obama can’t solve without throwing a checkbook at it.

Vote obama: Free money for everyone!

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In “How Cities Work” Alex Marshall posited that the real forces that shape cities are transportation systems, industry and business, and political decision making. Notice Transportation systems is first on the list, though the other three are probably needed to make the first happen.
Speaking of the myth, the current size of the Federal Government workforce is no bigger than it was 20 years ago. (yes, the one Obama has “ballooned” and will drown us in come next year).
There’s another book, The City in Mind, by James Howard Kunstler that examined Atlanta 10 years ago or more. The conclusion: our suburban ways would result in an impoverished ring around Atlanta followed by “significant” depopulation of the region.

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Chris Sanchez for governor….only intelligent, thoughtful posts I have seen yet….

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Our politicians don’t get it. For over a year they have been trying to convince our citizens that this transportation tax will solve our local driving challenges and help bring economic growth to our regional. Well maybe this will help them understand what some of us think about the tax they purposed.

First, we are all ready paying 7.5 cents a gallon state tax and 18.4 cents a gallon federal tax on each gallon of gas that we buy. That stream of revenue was created to help build and maintain our roads. So it is not like the GDOT doesn’t already have funding, they just don’t know how to use it.

Second, the GDOT did not do their homework when they came up with a list of projects that this funding was going towards. It was heavily in favor of mass transit spending. If you have sat in traffic anywhere in the area you will soon realize that mass transit is not the answer. The best projects that the GDOT came up with in the last 20 years was the extension of the GA 400 which has been paid for several times over with tolls, and the purposed outer perimeter which our previous governor cancelled. More buses in Atlanta or expanding the rail lines will not move enough people to solve our transportation issues, and those projects seem to always end up costing more to keep running than they generate in income and become a continuing burden on the tax payers.

I live in Dawson County and my local experience with the GDOT has illustrated that they don’t have a clue. They had purposed a 100 million dollar fix to a local intersection that works fine. They wanted to build a fly over that would have destroyed all of the local businesses that have grown around that area. After someone figured out that we don’t have and extra 100 million to waste, the GDOT decided that a simple 10 million dollar fix would do nicely and create a new intersection that looked like a plate of spaghetti. That proposal is waiting for funding. The projects that made the list to be fixed by the new tax so as to provide more economic opportunity for our local community is to build a round-about on a road that is not that heavy used and widen about a mile of a road that is also not that heavy traveled….all that for just 1% of everything my family buys for the next 10 years.

This tax was a substitute for our politician and the GDOT doing their jobs and figuring out what we really need. If the GDOT would quite wasting money on projects that don’t address the real issues and concentrate on fixing the big problems, they might find that they have enough to get the job done. For me, I am tired of the county, state and federal government needing more and more money when they clearly waste so much! Some of us feel like we are already taxed enough. It seems like goverment at every level have projects that we need to fund. Well so do I.

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Hamiltion

August 8th, 2012
9:03 am

Speaking of the myth, the current size of the Federal Government workforce is no bigger than it was 20 years ago. (yes, the one Obama has “ballooned” and will drown us in come next year).
______

Where did you come up with that myth?

The Incredible Shrinking Federal Workforce

Another myth debunked: Contrary to your belief that the Federal government is growing and growing in terms of its role in the government, it turns out that in one crucial respect, it’s actually shrinking.

As a share of all workers, Federal workers have been declining pretty steadily over the last several decades. That number has risen a little bit under Obama — due to some growth in the Federal workforce and the dramatic shrinking of the private workforce — but the ratio is still near the all-time rock bottom

Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-09-09/markets/30155186_1_federal-workforce-federal-workers-myth#ixzz22xZalql9

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T-SPLOST failed because of 2 things:

1) The well-earned reputation of government for not being good stewards with our money. Both R’s and D’s.
2) Too many things that nothing to do with solving the problem it was meant to solve: congestion. Even those who supported T-SPLOST would say “it’s not perfect, but its the best thing we’ve got to solve the problem.” No one expects perfection, but way too much of it went towards things we don’t need.

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The good guvna: Neither I nor the Legislature has much of an appetite for new investments until there are significant reforms in how the blackies, I mean, MARTA operates

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We now interrupt this program for the following lib ilk PSA. From WaPo:

“President Obama’s reelection team has taken canvassing to the next technological level, introducing a free iPhone app that maps the location of nearby Democrats, identifying them by first name, last initial and home address.”

Con men from around the country have embraced this new app as an easy way to locate the most gullible among us. B & E professionals now have an easy way to identify those less likely to be enjoying our 2nd Amendment rights.

We now return to our regularly scheduled programming…

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Welcome,

Probably accurate thoughts about what is rattling around governors brain but didn’t all the elected ones want this additional tax to spend?

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“As a government employee who hasn’t had a raise in 5 years with all of my living expenses increasing rapidly, it saddens me to read those comments. As I know the efforts that I and other employees make every day for so many ungrateful people.”

yeah, and these ingrates have the audacity to pay your salary too…what horrible people.

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Chris Sanches:

Crumbling infrastructure? Really? That bastion of conservative thought CNBC ranks GA 3rd in the nation in its most recent state rankings (even discussed in AJC the last week of July).

I will rely on engineers over a news organization anyday of the week.

http://www.ascega.org/georgia-report-card/

With new grades for the first time since 2003, Georgia’s infrastructure has shown very little improvement and once again received a cumulative grade of C.

Now, I know being a C student was good enough to be president, but when you look at the grades that make up that C average, you have to consider the fact that the rankings of airports and our energy ranking was the only decent grades we received, and those were B’s.

http://www.ascega.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/2009_GA_ASCE_Report_Card.pdf

There’s the complete report for you to see for yourself. Hopefully, you’re not one of those who don’t read documents more than 3 pages long. There, you’ll find out that Georgia’s infrastructure is effed up. If we’re the 3rd best in the nation, as CNBC says, then the country is really fubar.

I’ll leave you in lala land with your view on schools. If you think broken schools are only due to teacher issues, you’ve already lost.

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@ Butch Cassidy. I didn’t say the conservatives were going to pay NO taxes, just no new ones. I would have never used the belt line and since the Thrashers left town I have no need for Marta, and I would be unlikely to benefit from a new tower at a tiny airport, etc. The people that want this stuff should be the ones paying for it. I ALREADY helped pay for all the existing roads and infrastructure and their upkeep so you can’t retroactively kick me off them because I don’t support new slush fund money being falsely called another name.

We already pay enough taxes to allow the government to do an effective job at what their core responsibilities are supposed to be. The problem is that the government has lost sight of these core responsibilities. The conservative voters see this and want to put the brakes on the runaway politicians from both parties. The liberals don’t see this and want to burden everybody with higher taxes that will then be used for “more of the same” pork.

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Those stupid repubs ! Why can’t we go back a few short years ago when dems had total control. Who doesn’t remember that we were number one in infrastructure and education and many other areas. Now, after just a few years of repub leadership we are not number one in education or infrastucture. Why can’t the nutty tea party acknowledge how great our state was under total dem control ?

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When you think about it, this is what you get when ideology trumps common sense. The “my way or the highway” attitude of the ideologue is not conducive to logical thought thought processes needed to solve complex problems. The Right wing/Tea Party people are reaping what they have sowed and we are being tossed with the chaff. Good job Red Staters, good job.

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I didn’t really like this post. Until the MacGyver reference. That turned things around. Mullets and duct tape forever!!

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F. Sinkwich: Sounds like a great way to get your gun rights restricted, implying that people should go and rob and/or shoot people who are “fellow Democrats” found in said app. You did it better than any fictitious Obama plan ever could.

I’ll be taking that gun from you now…..

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Thank you Jay for an insightful piece. Like so many businesses, past and current leaders have converted good will into cash (aka power) for their personal enrichment (agenda). I grew up in the Detroit area and have watched a once great city become the hollow center of an ever widening economic void, becoming a stately old tree rotting from the core. The newfound autonomy of the suburban regions will ensure the continued decline of a defiant Atlanta, no longer the political bully of the state. Regional progress will occur when the once battered and bloody become trusted allies (never?) pursuing a shared vision. It’s that or Atlanta is in a race to see if decay or the winds of change will cause it to topple. The leaves fell in summer this year instead of the fall…

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It takes a lot of gall for the state to criticize MARTA and demand that it “reform its operations.”

That’s like starving someone and then saying “no food for you until you show me you can put on some weight.”

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yeah, and these ingrates have the audacity to pay your salary too…what horrible people.

ty

So, are you of the assumption that those government workers don’t pay the salary of those very ingrates who pay their salary? Think about that one for a minute.

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My, er…what you’ve done with the place…16 years ago we were the
hosting the world, a shining beacon world city, and…

What the hell happened?
Did you let the drunk Deliverance uncle drive the Ferrari again?

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yeah, and these ingrates have the audacity to pay your salary too…what horrible people.

Try working without a raise for 5 years, see how you do.
But when you want services these publc employees provide but aren’t there anymore, I dont want to hear , But , but i pay your salary.

We’ll see who says what when you can’t get a sheriff’s deputy to come out at 3 a.m. in the morning because they are on furlough.

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“Think about that one for a minute.”

okay, I have, and I don’t know what your point is…the point that I was trying to make was that as long as Cyril is getting paid a salary(I’m assuming he’s not a volunteer), who cares if the public he serves is grateful or not?…he’s getting compensated either way.

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Butch, You pay enough already. You pay enough already. You pay enough already.

Get my drift ?? Goobermint at all levels wastes far too much money as it is now. Why give them more ? They need to cut the pork and spend the money wisely. You can’t make them do this by giving them more money.

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Brosephus, conservatives are tired of being screwed by ever rising taxes. Libs love ever rising taxes. Can you explain why ???

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I agree we have made this grave now lie in it. I think unlike many cities and states we have grown overnight with no real grass root leadership, use to have Robert Woodriff and Ivan Allen. Then when we changed parties from Democratic to Republican we got more unbalanced. New names coming at us in all directions, new neighbors, new businesses, new ways of doing business. Most places had some history to fall back on, or some local leadership the masses recognized we have none of that. Then when the campaigns become so negative along with movies and books and television on about every subject, the press, institutions like Penn State all lying and a state not capable of digging up real information because of its level of education, you have what we have now a mess. The only ones sticking around this smelly mess are the crooks, good men and women don’t need the mud that comes with it, which make a messier mess.

Strange as it might seem I think the north has the Catholic Church which unlike the Southern Baptist do not walk in lock step politically but do religiously. One of the many mistakes Newt made in this recent primary was thinking he could put the Catholics under the same spells as the evangelical churches. What he got were normal people being honest that they use birth control, or had issues that didn’t align with the Church but still liked each other on Sunday. That kind of free thinking is what made America great not this religion for political use.

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not its comparison to the state’s GNP

GNP, SchneeNP!

Lighten up. Ever heard of satire?

Fair enough. (given that people take my snark for dead-serious more often than I like, I guess I should sympathize.)

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conservatives are tired of being screwed by ever rising taxes. Libs love ever rising taxes. Can you explain why ???

Easy. Conservatives are in denial about how you have to pay for stuff you need. Liberals aren’t.

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Jay perpetuates the fantasy that voters want more MARTA. Understand that MARTA on the left means transit. No significant number of metro commuters has ever used it. And the TSPLOST was more about sprucing it up than addressing the big problem, with the exception of the I-20 extension. TSPLOST was heavily weighted transit and the vast majority of voters don’t use it so to put forth this myth that people wanted transit is naive to say the least and delusional at most.

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Not Blind – “You can’t make them do this by giving them more money.”

And it won’t stop by giving them less. They will continue to waste money, and finance that waste by eliminating crucial services,projects and personnel. In the 1950’s when the interstate system was created, taxpyters were already paying “enough” to maintain the status quo. What do you think this country would look like if we still relied on paved over wagon trails, cow trails and county roads to get from place to place?

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By the way, Not Blind, I’ve yet to meet a “lib” who “loves ever rising taxes.”

nobody loves taxes. Some are grown up enough to accept that they aren’t ever going to go down, not in a society that assumes some kind of economic growth for the foreseeable future.

(if you can propose some means by which we can stabilize population growth and sustain a civilized culture and get the rest of the world to agree on it, that’s a different story, but I don’t seem to hear a lot of conservatives–or any, for that matter–putting such ideas forward.)

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Local governments and utilities plan for growth in water, sewage, electricity, garbage, police, fire protection and (usually) education. But they always seem to fail when it comes to transportation. The failure here was the weak referendum…approving projects that would require funding beyond the duration of the proposed tax. I can only guess that all this traffic is caused by unemployed Atlantans driving around looking for jobs.

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Brosephus, conservatives are tired of being screwed by ever rising taxes. Libs love ever rising taxes. Can you explain why ???

When you start off with broad assertions that have absolutely no truthfulness behind it other than rhetoric, there’s nothing to explain. When you can factually prove both of those assertions, then I can probably analyze your factual proof and offer an explanation.

I don’t try to explain rhetoric.

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“not after we’ve so emphatically demonstrated an unwillingness to pay our local share.”

Speak for yourself, Jay. If YOU haven’t been paying YOUR fair share please march yourself down to the nearest tax office and pony up or turn yourself in.

You are out-of-step with the voters, who spoke VERY clearly on election day.

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Misses the main point:

Normal minded republicans weren’t anti-spending on transportation (although some of the extreme crazies were and are), normal republicans have seen this and other state governments be bad stewards of the tax dollars we already invest. When we start doing a cost-benefit analysis on all projects & priorities and insure that we are getting the maximum benefit for the money we already spend, then I would say that republicans, democrats and independents would vote to raise taxes if necessary.
This state government has frivolously spent our money on pet projects, special interests, tax cuts for the well off, tax breaks for businesses, etc. Most of the time the state does a wishy-washy job of researching the costs and benefits of any of these initiatives. Too often we get a project that costs 4X as much as estimated that provides 1/3 of the benefit promised.
The no vote on T-SPLOST wasn’t saying “no more spending”, instead it was saying “no more wasteful spending.” The representatives in Atlanta need to show us they are using the money we already give them wisely before they can come and ask for more!

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This is just the beginning…
Once the economy improves, bringing in more revenue, the Repubs will simply pass more tax cuts designed to further “starve” state government. Fellow Georgians prepare yourself for the ideal GOP led state. One that will continue to lose ground to the more “progressive” states.
This trend will hit the accelerator when our “leaders” opt out of the “Affordable Healthcare Act”.
Just draw a map of America during the Civil War era…that will be the modern day map of states with”Healthcare” for all and prosperity, VS those with millions of poor, uneducated and uninsured.
Where will the citizens of this new geography settle…and therefore, where will the vast majority of jobs be created ?
Also, throw in military budget cuts. Most bases are here in the South, so we will feel the greatest impact.
All in all the future is not bright for the southern states, especially because of our nearsighted GOP leadership and the equally ill informed voters who continue vote them in charge.
Think back to pre Civil War days…’cause that’s where we’re headed.

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the idea that anyone paying for a service(public or private) should be “grateful” for that service being performed is ridiculous.

I disagree. Are you not grateful for the service that Team 6 provided us? Are you not grateful for the service that the FAA performs when you’re flying? We should always be grateful for getting good service whether we’re paying for it or not. That’s what I see as our major problem with today’s society. Not being grateful for things gives the appearance that we expect these things outright. We are only guaranteed to be born, breathe, and die. Everything else we get, we should be damned grateful for.

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Excepting those buying into the Obama led war on the rich and those not currently paying taxes, not even the middle class (whoever that is) doesn’t trust sending anymore money to governments…

It took 65 posts before the But…but…but…OBAMA! card was played.

Predictably it was by the same tool that plays that card on every state issue thread.

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How many Regions not even associated with MARTA voted NO. This is more than about MARTA.

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Welcome to our world.

Signed – The other 49 states.

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@ Andrew, you are wasting your time. You are on the mark but will be ridiculed for stating obvious facts.

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Republicans have put this state and Atlanta 20 yrs behind the times its now a giant stagnant hot,congested poorly planned mess that will only get worse over a period of times..this wasnt the case when GOVENOR ROY BARNES WAS IN OFFICE…Atlanta =Detroit in the making..racial division is a loser for both white and black..and lets face it metro Atlanta core problem is racial straight up plain and simple as well as the state ..it will put us further behind..no one will win..but will only come out as losers..Atlanta once a proud ,aggressive,progressive area now very stagnant thanks to Republicans and deep racial divisions…money will flow like water to Charlotte,Nashville,Dallas…bypassing ECONOMIC DEPRESSED ATLANTA REGION DUE TO IGNORANCE AND RACISM

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Georgia is jealous of Mississippi. Or is it Alabama. Both. Nope. Can’t be both. After all, we’re in second place, from the bottom.

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I don’t want a regressive tax like sales tax, a tax that affects the poorest of the poor when they go to buy food or medicine. There could have been a gasoline tax increase that actual drivers pay, if everyone wants more roads. I think TSPLOST went down in flames because PeachPass is such an insane waste of money. PeachPass showed the common worker that what Georgia government was going to do with their extra taxes was to create more PeachPass lanes that they can’t afford to drive in. These are basically lanes for the wealthy so that they can avoid sitting in traffic like the rest of us. Millions was spent on technology and law enforcement to guarantee that only privileged payers can access the lane that taxpayers (them) built long ago. No thank you. No trust for DOT. We knew that the money would be given to some representatives son-in-law to sell us more of those traffic lights at the end of expressways that don’t work and when they do, they make traffic worse on secondary roads. This was a vote of No Confidence.

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ty

You got me somewhat confused now.

@ 9:47
the idea that anyone paying for a service(public or private) should be “grateful” for that service being performed is ridiculous.

@ 9:57
of course I’m grateful when I’m provided good service, but considering that I’ve paid for it, shouldn’t good service be expected?

You find the idea that someone being grateful for a service they’re paying for to be ridiculous, but you’re grateful when you’re provided good service that you’ve paid for. So, are you saying that the service being good is the difference in whether one should be grateful or not?

I don’t disagree that good service should be expected when you’re paying for that service. Should you expect anything from services you get that you don’t pay for?

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I usually disagree with Curious, but his 7:56 comment is spot on. Atlantans have a fundamental mistrust of polticians because we have been burnt too many times with politicos from both sides of the aisle lining their own pockets with crony capitalism. If you look at the Brookhaven city approval, the interesting point is that becoming a city is not going to save any money and may actually increase taxes, but the people living in Brookhaven will have control of their own destiny. I don’t think Atlantans are necesarily against paying more taxes either in the form of adjusting gas taxes or an increased sales tax if there are assurances that our money would be invested appropriately. Time and time again, Atlantans have seen city construction projects go to relatives of elected officials or major campaign donors who are often unqualified to do the work in the first place. My water bill has gone from $20 to $30 per month to $150 to $200 in the past two years and the only explanation from the City is that I now have a new more efficient meter. I am not using anymore water than I was two years ago. The water bill increase is a direct reflection of years of incompetance, lack of planning, and poilitical denial. Dealing with infrastructure failure is now part of the increased opportunity cost of living in Atlanta. Welcome to Los Angeles.

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Democrats = Tax and spend
Republicans = Borrow and spend

The problem isn’t the “tax or borrow” parts…
the problem is the “spend” part.
Neither party will ever stop spending more than they should!

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“Should you expect anything from services you get that you don’t pay for?”

name one.

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http://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/al_franken/412378

From Jul 2009 to Aug 2012, Franken missed 0 of 903 recorded or roll call votes, which is 0.0%. This is better than the median of 2.4%. The chart below reports missed votes by calendar quarter (every three months).

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Jay, you and everybody’s so upset about this.

But, there’s simple solution: get all the rich folks in Georgia to pool their money and build toll tunnels to and from various locations in the metro region.

For instance, you could have tunnel from Alpharetta to Lawrenceville. And another from Roswell to Decatur.

Why, before you know the ground underneath the metro area would look like Swiss cheese.

And, best of all, you wouldn’t have to worry none about those danged pesky homeowners beeching and moaning about puttin’ a little ol’ highway in their backyard.

Heck, I’d be glad to pay $20.00 to go from Alpharetta to Decatur without stopping, wouldn’t you?

Like I said, the answer to this whole problem lies with rich folk. They’re the ones can save us from this mess.

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UGA ECONOMICS MAJOR

August 8th, 2012
10:02 am
aggressive,progressive area now very stagnant thanks to Republicans and deep racial divisions…money will flow like water to Charlotte,Nashville,Dallas…bypassing ECONOMIC DEPRESSED ATLANTA REGION DUE TO IGNORANCE AND RACISM

umm yeah.. lol.. ask those underground business folks that invested only to watch their businesses tank due to crime.. how is that atlantic station doing these days as well.. maybe those gt students getting robbed all the time should consider it a blessing that they are in atlanta..

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to all libs here:
i have just made an amazingly healthy alfalfa sprout salad, would you like some my pretties?…….pathetic

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Perhaps Union would be easier to understand if he learned a common language, preferably one that the rest of us use.

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You know the old saying, “if you give a toddler a hammer, every problem becomes a nail”?

That pretty much sums up liberals and taxes, doesn’t it……..

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It is a valid point that people don’t trust our local and state government to be good shepards of our tax dollars. I don’t know that this can be entirely blamed on Republicans as there are plenty of Democrats in local government who have been indicted on various schemes in recent years.

So, there is a trust issue. However, the larger problem is that the plan did not offer much in the way of real traffic relief, which is what the public truly wants. Why on Earth would anyone want to raise taxes on themselves to build rail lines that aren’t going to do anything for them? Atlanta congestion is almost entirely a by-product of an outdated hub and spoke model conceived 50 years ago when it was a quaint city that barely reached beyond what is now the Perimeter with most of the economic activity focused on Downtown.

I liked the Atlanta of 20+ years ago, alot, but I do not like what it has become as a result of growth primarily because we are stuck with this outdated road system. Atlanta is a car city. To think that it will ever be anything else is laughable. Put forth a plan that actually improves traffic, not just one that can be used to try to lure ever more people here.

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ty @ 10:21

Ok, that clears it up for me. I was getting a bit confused by what I was reading. I didn’t want to try to put words in your mouth that you were not saying. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I can somewhat agree with that. The Christian in me, though, thinks we should be grateful for everything though.

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Real Scooottter–please use your newfound powers for good.

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I wonder if the libs who oppose new roads are aware that the MARTA buses drive on roads. Probably not.

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@Granny Godzilla – Union Thugette 8:46 am: The discussion is about transportation and infrastructure…I think the survey is very cut and dry on that issue.

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Brosephus, I may not pay for the water treatment plant in the upstream county but I pay for the one in my county and the counties south of me pay for theirs.

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We need a leader on transportation that is highly technical or knows how to correctly use a highly technical team to work on solving our transportation issues. Throwing money at it is not the solution. Our current road system capacity could be greatly increased just through networking all of our red lights in metro Atlanta. There is no good reason that I shouldn’t be able to travel north/south, east/west through the whole area and only hit a few lights. By pulsing traffic, we can greatly increase throughput. This is very similar to computer networks. If we have control of all red lights in a central management center, then we can study traffic flows and increase throughput of traffic immensely. We should also be thinking about the future, with driverless cars not that far off. How will our infrastructure be affected and what can we do to plan for it. Working from home should be encouraged more which will lower the number of people on the road.

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How are the gas prices these days? hope and change! sorry forgot.. according the folks here.. the president has nothing to do with gas prices.. odd.. the media seemed to think it was bushs fault.. but for some reason.. obama? pass.. lol

obama is like a carny.. he takes the idiots money and gives them a small chinese stuffed animal and they think they have won the lottery

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Union – “How are the gas prices these days?”

In line with summer driving patterns, the free market and speculation as to future oil prices. Whay do you ask?

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Atlanta needs to do what London did.

Commuter taxes for all the OTP weasels that depend on Atlanta for their livihood.

Then dump all the money raised into the Beltline and MARTA.

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How ’bout them UGA Economics Majors? Ditto on the best post endorsement and proud that we’re producing folks that ‘understand’. Can’t say I’m proud that what he/she was having to comment on. Atlanta and Georgia have been on a downward spiral due to hatred and bigotry and fueled by the ignorance of a Tea Party mindset (aka, right wing nut jobs) for years. The TeaParty…a monster created by Republicans that don’t have the slightest idea how to control. In fact it ain’t controllable…how’s that make you feel?

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Union – “obama is not watching.. really.. step out on your own.”

Who gives a s**t about Obama? There’s a reason for the I by my name. It’s so party zombies such as yourself can recognize that I’m not beholden to EITHER party. Try again chief.

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You know that old saying–give a Republican a handful of nails and he’ll find a way to use them on his own coffin.

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Real Scootter

Congrats!

I still make mistakes while coding, so don’t despair if and when you do.

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Brosephus,
I pay for the treatment of my municipality’s waste water, just as the one above me pays for theirs.

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As a resident of NE Georgia, I can proudly declare myself to be a true trickle downer. In fact, one would have to build on National Forest land to get above me or more “upstream” from me. I feel so… Republican… when I talk about it though.

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Seriously Union, is it possible for you folks down in Georgia to discuss city, regional and state matters without invoking Obamas name?

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Regulations are what keeps folks from dumping such things as untreated water into the streams and rivers, like we used to do back before the Clean Water Act and the EPA came about. Republicans believe that regulations impede a business’s (a business of any size) ability to profit and I can understand their reasoning behind presenting such an argument to their followers. It’s because it’s true. It really costs money to clean up after yourself and that money comes off the bottom line, the profit, as an expense. I think about these things up here in NE Georgia most often while I’m in the john and there’s no magazine to read. I really need a magazine rack.

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ty

That’s what I said. However, you benefit from the people upstream paying for their treatment while not paying for that particular treatment yourself because the treatment you pay for has absolutely no bearing on your drinking water. People downstream from you benefit from the treatment you pay for.

That’s how it’s been for as long as I can remember. When I was in high school, I had a friend who’s crazy uncle would not drink tap water at all because of that. His words were that he wouldn’t drink water that someone else had sh**ted in, regardless to how much it had been treated locally.

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I do not understand why Georgia’s Republicans would pass up this opportunity with the TSPLOST to introduce yet another incremental change toward the ultimate conversion to the FairTax™ since we all know here in Georgia that a sales tax is the only truly fair way to make sure that everyone pays the appropriate level of taxes given that it is a tax on consumption and consumption is what drives the need for taxation anyway.

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Here’s a great clip from CNN showing how pathetic Obama’s campaign add claiming Mitt Romney was responsible for the death of a woman who’s husband was laid off… This is truly pathetic, if you are a Democrat please take a minute and look at the truth, even CNN (Wolf Blitzer) says the claim was a complete lie…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMkmxJ3P9Tw&feature=youtu.be

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In Olympic terms this is known as the 2 1/2 backward summersault. On the diving board you face away from the water, as if you’re ignoring it. Then, you do 2 summersaults to entertain the audience before you are under water. The Georgia legislature is now under water, and they are no longer entertaining.

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The last few days have been cooler and wetter than normal, with more of the same in the forecast. Does Bookman only trot out the the global warming drivel on days with temps in the 90’s?

Hot summer days in Georgia? It’s like yankees in Atlanta…oh the horror!!!!!

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TOLLS

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Off-Topic – Why I detest Fox…

‘Lauren Gray, who came legally to US on parents’ work visas when she was 4, facing decision to ’self-deport’

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/08/young-woman-faces-deportation-because-legal-immigrant/

Look, a pretty, young, white ballerina is the victim of Obama’s evil DREAM act. Except, that, when you read the article…she isn’t.

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Hey Lord Help Us…

How about CNN, do you believe them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMkmxJ3P9Tw&feature=youtu.be

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‘How about CNN, do you believe them?’

Yes, as they called out an Obama Super Pac ad that is out of line and inappropriate. What is your point?

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1. The Republican sales pitch is, “You should have lower taxes because government is not worth paying for.” Thus Republicans must ensure that government is, indeed, the problem.

2. Cities and counties should be given authority to replace property taxes and general sales taxes with taxes on fossil fuel. This would create pressure to change zoning laws to allow more mixed-use, high-density development. Commuting would drop drastically, meaning existing roads would be adequate. Air quality would improve. People would spend less time sitting in their cars and more time with family, recreation, the things that make life worth living.

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Get over the ad, just like a “swift boater” the PACs are not nice.

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I’ll gladly vote for the exact same tax plan under the following conditions… (and I think most of the voters who canned this one would too….)
 
Give us a list of 10 projects that will actually do something to help with traffic.  Airport towers and “add a turn lane” crap doesn’t count.  “Expand the heck out of MARTA rail” should be on the list, but specific to where it’s going and where the stops will be.
 
You have 5 years to complete everything on the list.  If you can’t get it done, you and/or the tax need to go.
 
Before the first dime is given to MARTA, the entire operating and managing entity of MARTA must be replaced by a regional board represented equally by the counties in the region.  MARTA has to stop being a jobs program and start being a transit authority. 
 
Nobody minds paying for improvements if they know what they’re getting and have at least a little confidence they aren’t going to get screwed. 
 
BTW, if TSPOST money was going to pay for that laundry list of projects they trotted out, what was our existing tax money going to be used for?

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As a common-sense libertarian I recognize that without a strong, not basic, but strong public infrastructure system ( including transit ) we free-market capitalists will have little economic benefits to work within and build our empires from. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the modern faux-libertarian and anarchist-Republicans would never elect a Dwight Eisenhower on the promise to build the great interstate system to boost the greatest capitalist expansion ever on the basis that it would be socialism.

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Extreme anti-tax, anti-government conservatives are large and in charge in Georgia, thanks to a lack of term limits for local politicians, and apathy among moderates. Moderates are a dying breed. I see it everwhere, even among close friends. Anarchy, here we come, and modern civilization, we hardly knew ye!

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Which is why the T-Party needs to be crushed and recycled into something useful in November.

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*Warning: Uncomfortable Truth Alert*

From Jay

“Georgia political leaders have succeeded in delegitimizing government as a tool for fixing not just transportation but a whole range of problems, including education.”

That is EXACTLY what this vote was about. A well earned LACK of trust.

Just look at the DOE. For YEARS they accepted Beverly Hall and APS’ “miracle test gains” when people going back to 2001 were saying “these are NOT legitimate”

But truth be told, you accepted them as well Jay. For YEARS. So when the AJC endorsed the T-SPLOST was there really any more voter trust in the AJC than there was in Nathan Deal, Sam Williams, and Kasim Reed?

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“It sounds to me almost like Bookman wants a tax increase to pay for the trains the hippies and Gays need to get from their high rise condos to the bars and such.”

Are the “Gays” a family of black people or are you just as backwards and stupid as most “rednecks”? Most Georgian’s I meet a very nice people but occasionally you bump into the stereotype you were warned about. Wars over man, the bums lost. Enjoy Forsyth.

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ATL, Redneck convert is satirical

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ragnar: Bush proved you can spend all you want and not have the people pay for it. Most people LOVE government spending as long as it doesn’t mean increasing taxes. And ESPECIALLY if they also get a tax cut in the process! WOOHOO! FREE MONEY FOR EVERYONE THANKS TO BUSH!

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Morans or Morons?

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Morans.

Hopefully, you were not meaning that as it reads. An insult/attack loses it’s punch when the person leveling it doesn’t even spell it correctly…

Just sayin’

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Not another red cent before a complete ethics overhaul. I don’t trust ANY of our politicians, they are ALL thieves.

And all this nonsense in the comments about “its the Republicans fault” or “its the Democrats fault”…NO. WAKE UP. This two-headed monster has us all by the balls, it’s long past time to kill it. This is all part of the divide and conquer tactics by the ruling elite, the plutarchy.

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“Georgia political leaders have succeeded in delegitimizing government as a tool for fixing not just transportation but a whole range of problems, including education. They have led the crusade to destroy public faith in the institutions that they themselves lead, and as a result those institutions have become increasingly useless.”

Same applies on the national level. People buy into it, then are shocked when Republican representatives’ actions don’t match the rhetoric that got them elected. Go figure.

ragnar

“Leftists don’t understand that normal people do not want to increase government spending.”

Trolling again?

I never knew Romney was a Leftist and the people supporting him aren’t normal, given he wants to increase government spending in one department alone by $120 billion a year.

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Brosephus

And all this time I thought a moran was a petit four with more chocolate.

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My favorite Moran!

http://photos.lucywho.com/erin-moran-photo-gallery-c18673612.html

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“Bush’s spending is what created the Tea Party ”

Sure, look at all the protests they did while Bush was President!

Oh, wait…

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“Not another red cent before a complete ethics overhaul.”

well, that’s the whole plan, iddn’t it?
Ethic-less Ga Republicans get paiiiid,
govt gets nothing, drowns in a bathtub.
All those people thinking bout moving to Somalia,
just come here instead. win-Ning!

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Butch @8;48 – ” You did not get over run by a fork lift did you?”

Nope, saw the crash coming, and when they brought in Pandit to run the show, I figured that I had put in enough time and accumulated enough money to get out of the game. Haven’t had any regrets about my decision yet.

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Jay – Great article until you started defended the State Government’s spending record. Like many Democrats, your math skills are severely flawed (most likely the result of our terrific government education). In 1992 the state GDP was approximately $160.1B thus 4.5% of that amount would be $7.2B in taxes collected. In 2011 the state GDP was $418.9B thus 3.8% would be $15.9B in taxes collected. That equates to a 120.83% increase in taxes collected over the past 20 years. In the same time frame the population has increased from 6.8M to 9.8M only 44.12% increase. Per capita income has increased from $19,075 to $34,800 only a 82.43% increase. So in essence incomes have increased 82.43% while taxes have increased 120.83%. Taxes collected should not mirror GDP gowth dollar for dollar. Economies of scale tells us that there should be cost savings as GDP increases thus the Government spending should not rise at the same rate. To say “State government in the last 20 years has simply not been the bloated monster devouring ever larger chunks of our wealth that some would like to claim.” Is quite simply untrue. There are too many reports on fraudulent government spending and cronysm in the state of GA that simply disprove that statement(a simple google search can reveal that). Next time you try to prove a point don’t go the political route and throw two percentages together that appear to prove your point when in reality that do the exact opposite.

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I don’t think many who voted against TSPLOST are actually against government spending on transportation. They simply don’t trust the politicians to do it fairly and for the good of the area.

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Jay, Your PENNSYLVANIA ROOTS are showing again! A founding forefather, George Washington who traveled through your home state to insure the FREEDOM of a PEOPLE! ( white people only) from Government tyranny would be proud of you this day ….Knowing that HIS efforts and others were not in VAIN!

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Stands @ 9:42

Fair enough.

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Clayton County. Definitely one of The Four Horsemen of the Incompetence.

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T. Webb — “Brosephus, I agree somewhat…but the idea that anyone paying for a service(public or private) should be “grateful” for that service being performed is ridiculous.”

I have some very good doctors and surgeons to whom I shall be grateful until the end of my days.

And I hope you don’t ever end up in the sort of situation in which I found myself.

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Anyone know anything about this? Couldn’t find anything on Snopes, etc.

“among the Obama administration’s White House staff 36 people owe $800,000.00 in unpaid federal income taxes. Among staff and employees of the United States Congress $11,000,000.00 is owed in personal unpaid federal income taxes, and the United States Postal Service employees owe $270,000,000.00 in unpaid personal federal income taxes.”

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Politico: “Obama: ‘I’m not the president of black America’ ”

No ……………… Clinton was the first black president.

Obama is the first world president.

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0311-hotair.com you are taking seriously? oh my.

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“Jay does not care about transportion or about competitiveness or jobs. He only cares about growing the power of government and extending the reach of his beloved Democrats.”

Mr. Bookman, would it be okay if, from this point forward, I address this one as “Hyperbole Beth?” That’s not being ugly, is it?

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He IS the President.

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Romney cheats taxes for 10 years.

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Jefferson:

Source ?

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0311-the “source” you cited was hotair.com

admit and move on. on the other hand did you hear about the wedding guests killed by a drone?????

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0311 — “They almost always “cower out”. That’s why it’s so important for “someone” to confront them with deadly force immediately ………. civilian or police !!!”

I don’t have a problem with that. So long as every private citizen who gets involved bears complete and total personal responsibility for EACH AND EVERY ROUND he or she sends downrange. No ‘Stand Your Ground’ bulldada — you own your firearm, you own your ammunition and you own whatever damages you cause.

If your stray shot kills a child, then you’re liable for the death. If your ricochet severs a young man’s spinal column and leaves him a paraplegic, guess who’s paying for his lifetime of therapy and medical bills?

It’s not that I don’t trust your marksmanship, 0311, but there are LOT of Rambos out there who imagine that they’re trick-shot artists appearing in a Hollywood action flick, and they forget that each round they fire potentially has consequences. So if they want to fire away, then fire away. And after the situation is resolved, then they can pay for those consequences.

Maybe considering the price tag will dissuade some of those people who just *imagine* that they’re tough guys behind that piece.

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“Bush’s spending is what created the Tea Party ”

Sure, look at all the protests they did while Bush was President!

THIS

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Tundra Dude:

See my 12:37

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investors.com??? that is too rich. You read that about as much as I read Machine Gun Central. There is this special thingies called the googles you know to find your “sources”.

Now about those wedding guests……

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Joe Hussein Mama:

What about a scenario where innocent bystanders were hit by stray (or through an through rounds) but in doing so a mass murderer was put down and the end result is that more lives were saved.

In other words, one person was accidentally killed but many additional lives were saved because the shooter was killed sooner than later. Police reacting to “active shooter” situations are faced with this so a civilian would be also. Just goes with the territory.

I can tell you this for a FACT. During my federal training as part of a “special unit” I was taught to use civilians as “cover” if that meant I could keep fighting in an effort to nuetralize the threat.

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the cat:

Pretty weak on your part. Find something that proves it wrong and I will retract it.

Now how about that Washington Post article.

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Hey cat:

How about the L.A. Times ? Is that “liberal” enough for you ????

“41 Obama White House aides owe the IRS $831,000 in back taxes — and they’re not alone”

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/09/congress-taxes-irs.html

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What does that say about Georgia voters?

Well,uuh…um….I don’t know.What?

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I can only chime in for a minute. Here’s a dedication to the latest musician to die. I think you all cons and libs alike will like this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUL68ZeclcA

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The Atlanta region lost its’ MOJO as far back as the 70’s(approx)when the banking industry started their move from Atlanta to Charlotte, NC. The banks were aware then the Atlanta region was not friendly toward them. The trend since then has been a loss of financial clout as the financial hub of the South and this region. Our politicians create the environment for the businness sector to thrive and is failing to do so. We have in this area politicians picking and choosing winners and losers(redistribution)in the economy. The Atlanta airport is one example. The City of Atlanta will not relinquish control over to the private sector. Another example is the legislature created the environment whereby various governmental authorities implement fee/policis without voter approval. This insulates the political class from the potential accusation they increase taxes. Now we hear it is the fault of the electorate that we find ourselves in a collective dilemma…..when the issue is poor financial decisions of both parties. Increasing taxes is like giving drug addicts more addicitve drugs to help them quit using. Go figure.

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Scout,

And here we thought it was only Tim Geitner that doesn’t pay his taxes.

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yuzurbrane – ” I think it was a point worth making that we are not a bunch of stupid sheep to be manipulated by glossy ads.”

In all fairness to Deal, He probably thought exactly that. After all, Georgia did vote for Gingrich.

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Joe Hussein Mama:

I hear you but to me it’s worth the risk.

If there is a mass murder (school, movie theater, church, mall) in progress and my friends or loved ones are in danger I PRAY someone with the means and the guts will try to stop it.

We agree to disagree on this one.

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P.S.

The first one I posted was the first one I saw.

I only went looking for the others after you questioned me on it.

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(CNN) — The July heat wave that wilted crops, shriveled rivers and fueled wildfires officially went into the books Wednesday as the hottest single month on record for the continental United States.

And the past 12 months have been the warmest of any such period on record, topping a mark set between July 2011 and this past June. Every U.S. state except Washington experienced warmer-than-average temperatures, NOAA reported.

Think how much worse it would have been if we hadn’t entered an era of global cooling! (Hat tip Rick Perry.)

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/08/us/temperature-record/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

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P.S.

Here it is:

51-1-29. Liability of persons rendering emergency care

“Any person, including any person licensed to practice medicine and surgery pursuant to Article 2 of Chapter 34 of Title 43 and including any person licensed to render services ancillary thereto, who in good faith renders emergency care at the scene of an accident or emergency to the victim or victims thereof without making any charge therefor shall not be liable for any civil damages as a result of any act or omission by such person in rendering emergency care or as a result of any act or failure to act to provide or arrange for further medical treatment or care for the injured person.”

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A truly cosmopolitan, Metro Atlantan knows we need more rapid transit and light rail connecting to the heavier rail lines and stations. I ride the train 4 days a week from the North Springs station to Five Points.

I’m aware of the financial constraints on MARTA, but I still think that we, as Greater Atlantans and Georgians, could still do a better job with what we have. For one thing, all the MARTA stations need a good pressure washing. They are filthy. Bubble gum wads on the pavement all over the place, dirt everywhere, and human “grease dirt” all over the once shiny marble walls where people lean on those walls while they wait on trains.

The trains themselves are a far cry from “German clean”. They too need to be shiny and spic and span! In fact, we ought to sell them to a Third World country and replace them with more comfortable- and faster– modern trains.

It’s too bad the one penny tax didn’t pass. Way to go Georgia. Georgia would be a poor, po-dunk state without Atlanta (and the ports of Brunswick and Savannah). More than half the state’s population lives in Metro Atlanta or is in orbit around it, and she is a hub and distribution center for Georgia’s produce and manufactures.

But try telling that to the suburban, exurban Tea Party types or the Daniel Boone isolationist rural bumkins. That’s right, Rural Bumkins! Because that’s what you are! Georgia and especially Greater Atlanta used to be a forward-thinking culture, relative to much of the rest of the so-called “Deep South” (usually called that by outsiders, until they move here, then it’s the “Sunbelt”).

Now we are retreating inward and thinking backward. And you, the leaders and government of Atlanta and Georgia, haven’t helped matters with the way you break promises on such things as the toll road on GA 400, etc.

While mass rapid transit isn’t cheap, neither is building more and more and wider and wider roads. And if we compute the environmental and ecological costs of roads and cars all over the place, they’re even more costly and expensive, not to mention increasing our reliance on fossil fuels, and the great personal expense of owning and operating, fueling and insuring our cars.

Atlanta used to be called “the city in a forest” by not only natives, but by visitors too. With more rail and light rail connectors, we could have volumes of more trees, and incalculably less noise and air pollution. And businesses love to locate on rail lines and near rapid rail stations, for good reasons.

We need MORE park and greenspace, and MORE modern rapid rail to grow and compete with our competitor cities like Charlotte, Houston, Dallas, and many more. Get it through you heads, my fellow Georgians and Atlantans. (I’m a native Atlanta, Georgia boy, by the way. Born and raised 49 years!)

And don’t you rural and smaller city Georgians tell me that anybody north of Macon is a Yankee! haha! (If that’s the case, no wonder we lost the Civil War: It was the United States verses Florida!)

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Samll bore comment but does anyone remember the days of Public Service Announcements on TV in the 1960s and 70s before the public airways were completely taken over by commercialization and public became a bad word? There were anti-littering spots, how to be a good citizen, and hints on how to be a better driver.

Let me propose a return to the past in which PSAs advise slow drivers to the right, no tailgating to cut down on sudden stops which halt traffic with slow restarts, and discourage motor-maniacs from cutting in and out of traffic. Tailgating and other forms of crazy driving in Atlanta is on ongoing problem which everyone seems to take for granted but costs us dearly.

PSAs are a low-cost way to to get admittedly modest gains in traffic throughout but at an exceedling low coast compared to TSPLOT. Granted that less money is made by the construction and real estate firms but they shouldn’t be waht this is all about anyway.

I would like to see a cost-benefit study that quantifies the tradeoffs between major infrastructure spending and PSAs. The study should be in the Atlanta context focusing on top-end Perimeter & 400 and other places addressed by the TSPLOST. After the election in November when political spending plummets I’m sure the local media, especially TV, could get behind this one if bucks came from same people that seemed to so easily find the millions for the TSPLOST media blitz.

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P.S.

I remember when (before Islamic terrorism) there were no, zero, NADA security checks at our airports. You bought your ticket and got on the plane.

Over the years of passenger flight before security was implemented, hundreds of thousands of handguns were carried on commercial aircraft and I don’t recall even “one” incident.

Just sayin’.

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0311 — “And the passengers lost.”

I vehemently disagree.

“I remember when (before Islamic terrorism) there were no, zero, NADA security checks at our airports. You bought your ticket and got on the plane.”

I remember it well myself. I was a Delta Platinum Medallion flyer on 9/11. And that was back when there was no Diamond Medallion level.

“Over the years of passenger flight before security was implemented, hundreds of thousands of handguns were carried on commercial aircraft and I don’t recall even “one” incident.”

Carrying is one thing. You’re arguing in favor of *using* and *immunizing* the users, and that’s completely different. That’s apples and oranges.

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I looked back at the column and realized you did level criticism against the NAACP (along with the Sierra Club). Good for you, Jay — you don’t miss a beat.

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How can you blame the Sierra Club for not supporting the TSPLOST and hoping for more transit in the enxt TSPLOST when in the next breath you say we need to expand our transit systems and then show other comments supporting that stance. With the drastic under funding of transportation especially transit in this state why should the public have supported a plan that barely addressed transit, ignored road plans by GaDOT, contained many local road projects fit for local SPLOSTs rather than a regional SPLOST, allows $40M of TSPLOST money to offset tax money coming from the geenral fund supporting Gwinnett County Transit rather than expanding the transit service, would have allowed the expenditure of $296M to build a road in rural eastern Gwinnett that has no water and sewer service nor plans to extend it to that area but would have created demand for those services and actually did in the form of a proposed massive mixed use development which the county opposed because there were no plans to provide water and sewer service to that area. If you want to place blame put it where it belongs on the roundtable that approved a poor group of projects that failed to address regional congestion and the elgislation for foisting this mess on the voters when they don’t have the guts to lead knowing the anti-tax mood of the voters and the poor reputation of the GaDOT. The governor sure proved he hasn’t any leadership ability by bailing out and blaming transit for the problems and denying it support when everyone with a clue says it must be a key part of the solution. I also blame the legislature for not offering more transportation fudning whether or not the TSPLOST failed. How was the public to know if they would ahve provided more funding or were just going to say well the voetrs supported thsi atx and we are doen for teh enxt ten years which was not acceptable. My point in voting against the TSPLOST is to put additional pressure on the governor and legislature to get that funding because we have to have it and nto jst $8B over the next ten years when Concept3 identified $120-160B in needed transportation projects over the next 20-30 years and even that plan lacked some pieces that would be needed such as an East-West transit system in the SR120 corridor.

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‘How can you blame the Sierra Club for not supporting the TSPLOST and hoping for more transit in the enxt TSPLOST when in the next breath you say we need to expand our transit systems and then show other comments supporting that stance?’

First, we do need to expand our transit system – more than was provided in this TSPLOST.
But… look into the halls of the state house. Who among us would think, in the next decade that this bunch of yahoos would have the clarity of vision to give more transit when the legislation almost failed because of the transit that did make it in the bill?

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