Sifting through the details of another mass shooting

Six members of a Sikh congregation in Oak Creek, Wisconsin were murdered at their local temple Sunday morning by a man whom Fox News has identified as Wade Michael Page, “a heavily tattooed, 40-year-old ex-Army soldier.”

The suspect was killed by police responding to the scene.

The mass attack comes barely two weeks after the tragic movie-theater shooting in Auroro, Colo. that killed 12. However, the tragedy in the Wisconsin case is compounded by the fact that its victims were gathering in a place of peaceful worship, and were apparently targeted because of their faith. For that reason, it is being investigated as a case of domestic terrorism, which is appropriate. (There is a strong possibility that the shooter incorrectly associated the Sikhs with Muslims.)

Hate crimes that target groups have a much longer list of victims than do acts of blind, random violence such as that in Aurora. They are intended to inflict fear on all members of that particular group, to make them feel isolated and hated, and to a tragic degree they often succeed in doing so. Across this country, members of the Sikh community today feel vulnerable, suspect and afraid, just as the shooter probably intended.

In another difference from the Aurora shooting, authorities have reported that the gunman in the Wisconsin attack was armed only with a single 9mm pistol, making it difficult and indeed inappropriate to turn the event into a forum for gun-control debate. No conceivable change in gun laws or enforcement could have prevented or minimized this tragedy.

However, the Wisconsin shooting should serve as a caution to those in public life who stoop to targeting religious or ethnic groups in their irresponsible rhetoric, and who by doing so validate the anger, fear and resentment that apparently motivated this tragedy. We are, or ought to strive to be, a better nation than that.

– Jay Bookman

542 comments Add your comment

Doggone/GA

August 6th, 2012
10:42 am

“The death penalty is not a deterrent.”

And no law is truly a deterrent to someone determined to get their own way regardless. All laws really exist to define the punishment levels for doing something deemed detrimental to society.

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

August 6th, 2012
10:42 am

At the time the second amendment was passed a good shot could maybe fire a few rounds in a minute.

Totally different story today.

Ahem

August 6th, 2012
10:42 am

Don’t bother asking Wonderful Leader what he thinks, on this or any other subject, as he is way too busy piloting the most transparent administration in history. Yeah, right.

WH Press Corps Goes Seven Weeks Without a Question
by Keith Koffler on August 6, 2012, 9:28 am

President Obama has not taken a serious question from the White House press corps in nearly seven weeks, a remarkable string that points to a campaign-style White House operation that is seeking to insulate the candidate from tough cross examination.

The last substantive question Obama took from a White House reporter was during a June 20 press conference following the G20 Summit in Los Cabos, Mexico. Obama allowed only six questions during the event, which was nearly guaranteed to keep him out of political hot water as the focus was on foreign policy.

Since then, Obama has held no press conferences, given no interviews to White House reporters, and taken no questions at the White House events he has held where reporters have been present.

After a July 26 Cabinet meeting, Obama actually laughed off the prospect of taking a serious question about gun laws.

From the White House transcript:

Q Mr. President, can you tell us, if what the Colorado shooter did was entirely legal, how do you do more on this subject without any new laws?

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. I’m sure we’ll have more opportunity to talk about this.

Q This afternoon is fine. I’m available.

THE PRESIDENT: Thanks. I’ll ask Jay for your number. (Laughter.)

During his recent trip to Europe and Israel, Mitt Romney’s failure to take many questions from the frustrated reporters traveling with him sparked an uproar in Washington, even though Romney did in fact hold a press availability during the trip.

Obama’s silencing of the White House press corps has drawn no similar protest.

Adam

August 6th, 2012
10:43 am

the cat: I believe he is making the opposite argument, actually, that the death penalty has no effect on crazy killers.

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 6th, 2012
10:43 am

Especially when it takes 10 years to finally put someone to death.because they have rights ?

well, take away their rights! problem solved!

/wingerbot

Oscar

August 6th, 2012
10:43 am

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

August 6th, 2012
10:40 am
——–

That is correct, but it’s the wrong argument to use against the death penalty. I think the best argument is the fact that too many innocent people are executed. Today, we have the means to put people in jail. And if they are later found to be innocent, let tem out.

Joe the Plutocrat

August 6th, 2012
10:44 am

as with others; I am an unabashed supporter of the 2nd Amendment. that said; I believe the NRA should be classified as a hate group. the devil is in the details, folks. the 2nd Amendment is like any other Amendment. no Constitutional right is absolute. convicted felons forfeit their right to vote; criminals forfeit their 2nd Amendment right. those DUI types clad in orange jumpsuits with INMATE stencilled on the back have lost their 13th Amendment (involuntary servitude) rights. on both conceptual and practical levels it is hard for law-abiding citizens, who are responsible firearm owners to surrender their rights because of the actions of a handful of criminals. there was an interesting screed in the New Yorker recently which demonstrates the catch-22 of the gun control debate; namely; the Aurora shooter operated within the law until the moment he pulled the trigger. and for every Columbine, VA Tech, or Aurora; there are hundreds of thousands; if not millions of cases in which an American citizen submitted to a background check and legally purchases a semi-automatic handgun, rifle, or shotgun and ammo; which has been unsed (or not used) in accordance with the law. I do not wish to over-simplify this issue; but blanked bans on the ammount of ammo, or the capacity of the clip do not address the real problem. I am not suggesting that 100 round drums, or .50 caliber sniper rifles should not be a part of the conversation; but I am hesitant to surrender my right to protect myself because of the behaviors of others.

ragnar danneskjold

August 6th, 2012
10:44 am

Dear Adam, also think California has a large number of mass killings, add that to the list. Think I have to concede to Jay’s argument, that there is no particular political element contributing to the killings, and that none would remedy.

Adam

August 6th, 2012
10:45 am

President Obama has not taken a serious question from the White House press corps in nearly seven weeks, a remarkable string that points to a campaign-style White House operation that is seeking to insulate the candidate from tough cross examination.

Hilarious. A spin piece designed to turn one of ROmney’s weaknesses into Obama’s weakness too.

This is:

a) Muddying the waters
b) I know you are, but what am I?
c) Tu Quoque
d) All of the above

Williebkind

August 6th, 2012
10:45 am

Two mass killings in the absence of Jay! I am wondering is there a master mind behind these events–not Jay–really. First, bring out the violence in our society caused by Hollywood film producers and then turn onto religious institutions. We all know they exist by instilling fear and superstitions.

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

August 6th, 2012
10:47 am

Where does the right to bear arms end ?

Bazooka’s ? Tanks ? Artillery ?

Mr_B

August 6th, 2012
10:47 am

” In fact, other than the Texas Tower guy, have any mass murders occurred in states that actually use the death penalty?”

Rags: Think VATech.

Oscar

August 6th, 2012
10:47 am

People in America have a right to bear arms because the constitution says they do.
There is no inherent right to bear arms, and the constitution can be changed.
Either by amendment, or by arguments regarding the types of arms the constitution gives people the right to bear.

It’s meaning can be limited to bearing muskets. That’s all they had back then.

ty webb

August 6th, 2012
10:48 am

“Two mass killings in the absence of Jay!”

Harry Reid heard from someone that Jay was the “mastermind” behind both…yet Jay’s been oddly silent with respect to his involvement.

Erwin's cat

August 6th, 2012
10:48 am

A spin piece designed to turn one of ROmney’s weaknesses into Obama’s weakness too.
only in your mind

ragnar danneskjold

August 6th, 2012
10:48 am

Dear Stands @ 10:42, disagree. Death penalty is a 100% deterrent against potential recidivists.

As to the “time” issue, that is purely the fault of Congress and the magnification of the power of the central government. All Congress has to do is to eliminate Federal District Court and Federal Appellate Court jurisdiction over any matter of state law reviewed or reviewable by the highest court of any state – that could be done by statute. Supreme Court only should have capacity to review the decisions of a State Supreme Court. Time and expense problem cured.

Peter

August 6th, 2012
10:49 am

stands for decibels (SfBA) ./ I agree……… I personally think that once you kill you have given your rights up, unless you are doing so in self defense.

I don’t agree with the crap such as the guy who killed the judge, and folks in court, to be later found mentally insane, and allowed to live in prison, and the tax payers then get the bill.

Oscar

August 6th, 2012
10:49 am

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

August 6th, 2012
10:47 am

____

Wherever the supreme court says it ends. Their decision on the meaning of the 2nd is final until constitution is changed or their decision is overuled by a future sc decision.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 6th, 2012
10:50 am

“However, the Wisconsin shooting should serve as a caution to those in public life who stoop to targeting religious or ethnic groups in their irresponsible rhetoric, and who by doing so validate the anger, fear and resentment that apparently motivated this tragedy. We are, or ought to strive to be, a better nation than that.”

………….. and that includes targeting the religious opinion of the CEO of Chick-fil-A.

Road Scholar

August 6th, 2012
10:50 am

Probably use the automatic weapons, machine guns and anti aircraft guns to shoot geese….ya’ know those socialist geese that fly in formation…So many geese…so little time!

As to those who support the 2nd amendment: Wasn’t it written in a time when only single shot muzzle loading guns existed? Context? And I know some will tell me what our founding fathers were actually thinking…

Doggone/GA

August 6th, 2012
10:50 am

“It’s meaning can be limited to bearing muskets. That’s all they had back then.”

No, it can’t…because the Constitution makes no distinction as to WHICH arms are meant.

ragnar danneskjold

August 6th, 2012
10:50 am

Dear Mr. B @ 10:47, agreed, I concede. We also had a stock day-trader here in Atlanta who killed a bunch of people, so my thesis will not hold water, at least not as a conclusive remedy.

Adam

August 6th, 2012
10:51 am

Scout: How is “targeting the religious opinion” of ANYONE somehow forbidden?

It’s opinion. Freedom of speech on his part, AND on the part of people who disagree saying so.

Also, if your idea of social activism is to eat fried chicken and french fries…. you MIGHT be a redneck. ;)

Jefferson

August 6th, 2012
10:52 am

When a kook wants to die, they can take many with them. Those that don’t want to die and commit death sentence type crimes must think they won’t get caught.

Fresh bullets on sale at Walmart, now that’s good news.

Oscar

August 6th, 2012
10:52 am

Doggone/GA

August 6th, 2012
10:50 am

___

Yes it can. The supreme court has already approved restrictions on what type of arm can be carried and under what circumstances. Law limiting access to assult rifles passed in 1994 was upheld.

Erwin's cat

August 6th, 2012
10:52 am

ragnar…didn’t Ted Bundy go to FL because they had the death penalty?…to stop him?

skipper

August 6th, 2012
10:52 am

@pass the cheesy grits,
Also, at the same time no one thought “Freedom of speech” or “the right to a public education” would morph into what they have, either. And, rest assured, they have both veered away from what was originally intended…………………..

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 6th, 2012
10:53 am

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please :

For your edification:

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf

Following are important excerpts regarding the recent 2nd Amendment ruling including some very “thought provoking” points.

Page 6

a. RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE

“Nowhere else in the Constitution does a “right” attributed to “the people” refer to anything other than an individual right.”

Page 8

b. KEEP AND BEAR ARMS

“Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications ……………. and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search ……………. the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existance at the time of the founding.”

Page 19

c. MEANING OF THE OPERATIVE CLAUSE

“Putting all of these textual elements together, we find that they guarantee the individual right to posses and carry weapons in case of confrontation. This meaning is strongly confirmed by the historical background of the Second Amendment. We look to this because it has always been widely understood that the Second Amendment, like the First and Fourth Amendments, codified a pre-existing right.

The very text of the Second Amendment implicitly recognizes the pre-existance of the right and declares only that it shall not be infringed. As we said in United States vs. Cruikshank this is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existance. The Second Amendment declares that it shall not be infringed …….. ”

Page 24

b. SECURITY OF A FREE STATE

“The phrase “security of a free state” meant “security of a free polity” not security of each of the several states.”

“There are many reasons why the militia was thought to be “necessary for the security of a free state” ……….. Third, when the able bodied men of a nation are trained in arms and organized, they are better able to resist tyranny.”

Page 25

3. RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PREFATORY CLAUSE AND OPERATIVE CLAUSE

“That history showed that the way tyrants had eliminated a militia consisting of all the able bodied men was not by banning the militia but simply taking away the people’s arms, enabling a select militia or standing army to suppress political opponents.”

Page 26

“It was understood across the political spectrum that the right helped to secure the ideal of a citizen militia, which might be necessary to oppose an oppressive military force if the constitutional order broke down.”

Adam

August 6th, 2012
10:53 am

As of the second amendment, there is no logical evidence to support the statement that it was designed so people could protect themselves from the U.S. government. The founding fathers clearly indicated that if a government becomes oppressive, it is the right of the people to overthrow it. Therefore, it makes absolutely no logical sense to follow the laws of a government you are overthrowing.

American jingoism

August 6th, 2012
10:54 am

American jingoism fueling hatred accross the globe. The government, the media, and other interested parties all work together to foster hatred in advance of the next unnecessary and unprovoked war – and we are shocked by the results.

And of course yet another “lone gunman.” The government loves the lone gunman as does the media. Of course the eyewitnesses here and in Aurora say that there were more than one shooter, but why let facts get in the way of the open and shut case narrative. And what are we to make of the fact that this guy is ex-army? We send our troops overseas to wars that only the elites want to protect interests that have nothing to do with national defense, and to commit attrocities that will haunt them forever. And then we wonder why they are committing suicide at a rate of 1 per day or more or killing their families at alarming rates, or shooting up temples of peaceful worshipers simply becasue they too are “rag heads” as the military likes to call anyone listed on the official enemies list these days.

We need to end these wars, bring all of our troops home, give them the care they need, promise to never engage in another war of conquest or empire building, and tell Israel to take care of their own political problems.

And of course like all the school shootings this also occurred at another “gun free” zone.

Tom Middleton

August 6th, 2012
10:55 am

Jay, it’s being reported the shooter was born in COLORDO and was the lead singer of a neo-Nazi punk band. This is what I found. http://gawker.com/end-apathy/

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 6th, 2012
10:55 am

I personally think that once you kill you have given your rights up

Ok. I’ve decided you’re a killer. You have no rights, now.

but wait–you decided I’m a killer, so I have no rights. Whatever do we do?

I guess we could go back to that whole “due process” and “burden of proof” thingie…

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

August 6th, 2012
10:55 am

….. and that includes targeting the religious opinion of the CEO of Chick-fil-A.

Yeah, ’cause not buying a chicken sandwich is EXACTLY THE SAME as going into a house of worship to kill folk.

:roll: :eek: :roll: :eek: :roll: :eek:
:eek: :roll: :eek: :roll: :eek: :roll:
:roll: :eek: :roll: :eek: :roll: :eek:
:eek: :roll: :eek: :roll: :eek: :roll:
:roll: :eek: :roll: :eek: :roll: :eek:
:eek: :roll: :eek: :roll: :eek: :roll:

ragnar danneskjold

August 6th, 2012
10:55 am

Dear Adam @ 10:53, disagree. The 2nd Amendment is written purely as a constraint on the government. Has nothing to do with individuals, other than to tie the hands of the potential oppressor.

Erwin's cat

August 6th, 2012
10:56 am

And of course like all the school shootings this also occurred at another “gun free” zone.

wrong…it’s legal to legally carry in a church in CO

Joe the Plutocrat

August 6th, 2012
10:57 am

Cheesy Grits, again, not to seem glib, but perhaps we should ask ourselves “where does it begin”? (perhaps Oscar @10:47 answered). your question is valid, but consider this; the DoD has bazookas, tanks, and artillery; which it uses to kill en masse. we just marked the anniversary of Hiroshima. take a moment and Google My Lai. I cannot speak for the Founding Fathers, or all Second Amendment supporters; but sometimes “guns don’t kill people; people kill people” and “if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns” is not bumper-sticker rhetoric. again, as Oscar notes; perhaps the real issue (and not limited the 2nd Amendment) is the relationship between technology (muzzle-loading musket vs. high capacity AR-15) and the Constitution. I doubt the Founding Fathers ever considered “hanging chads” or internet pornography/gambling.

gadem

August 6th, 2012
10:57 am

Ahem, you posted an opinion piece…interesting…

Road Scholar

August 6th, 2012
10:57 am

Change the constitution? I wouldn’t let the current crop of legislators wash my car, let alone change the constitution!

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

August 6th, 2012
10:57 am

As to those who support the 2nd amendment: Wasn’t it written in a time when only single shot muzzle loading guns existed? Context? And I know some will tell me what our founding fathers were actually thinking…

Yes the founding fathers clearly knew guns would evolve into automatic weapons.

And they were ok with all of it.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 6th, 2012
10:57 am

Adam:

“Scout: How is “targeting the religious opinion” of ANYONE somehow forbidden?”

Ah ………….. you got it ! It’s not forbidden (yet) and you make my point.

Jay is trying to somehow connect free speech with inciting violence and THAT is a dangerous first step toward changing this country into something we don’t want it to be.

Erwin's cat

August 6th, 2012
10:57 am

oops meant WI

Doggone/GA

August 6th, 2012
11:00 am

“Law limiting access to assult rifles passed in 1994 was upheld”

Limiting, not forbidding. What I’m saying is that the CONSTITUTION doesn’t restrict or define “arms”. It is our laws that do that. But our laws cannot BAN the ownership of arms outright because that would be unconstitutional.

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 6th, 2012
11:00 am

Yeah, ’cause not buying a chicken sandwich is EXACTLY THE SAME as going into a house of worship to kill folk.

But dude. The slippery slope. One day you’re criticizing a CEO for making idiotic public statements, the next, you’re rounding up Christians in boxcars. Happens all. the. time.

Adam

August 6th, 2012
11:01 am

Scout: Agreed that targeting free speech is only treating a symptom. The real cause here, if hate speech motivated the killer, would be mental illness. Because, frankly, if you think killing is ok and justified because you heard someone day something bad about the people you were targeting, you are nuts.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 6th, 2012
11:01 am

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please @ 10:57 :

Keep in mind that weapons had already evolved from swords into firearms and please see my 10:53, page 8, b.

“Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications ……………. and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search ……………. the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existance at the time of the founding.”

Jack

August 6th, 2012
11:01 am

I agree with Bookman; Al & Jesse shouldn’t target ethnic groups… validating anger and fear.

Recon 0311 2533

August 6th, 2012
11:02 am

Peter, you may be familiar with the former weather underground and radical elements of the Black Panthers along with Louis Farrakhans organization.Should we include Islamic Jihadists living in America as a demographic? These days we’re certainly more concerned with Muslim Jihadists than we are a bunch of tattooed idiots who call themselves white supremacists.

Doggone/GA

August 6th, 2012
11:02 am

“”Yes the founding fathers clearly knew guns would evolve into automatic weapons”

Maybe not automatics specifically, but they certainly knew they would evolve into better weapons.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 6th, 2012
11:02 am

Adam @ 11:01:

Thank you. Now tell Jay.

Adam

August 6th, 2012
11:03 am

Scout: Does that mean I get to talk about mental health care for all without being insensitive to the victims?

godless heathen

August 6th, 2012
11:04 am

As to those who support the 2nd amendment: Wasn’t it written in a time when only single shot muzzle loading guns existed? Context? And I know some will tell me what our founding fathers were actually thinking…

And did the Internet exist when the 1st Amendment was written? I’m not sure the Founders envisioned our right to bloviate on blogs all day long.

Adam

August 6th, 2012
11:05 am

VERY OT: Last night’s episode of The Newsroom made me cry.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 6th, 2012
11:07 am

Adam

August 6th, 2012
10:45 am

Truly Karl Rove. What a laugh!

Adam

August 6th, 2012
11:07 am

curious

August 6th, 2012
11:08 am

These types of events will continue and probably become more common.

If the NRA keeps sitting on the sideline, they may find themselves in a truly bad fix. At some point, the people of this country, including gun owners, will get fed up.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 6th, 2012
11:09 am

When you think about it, as soon as they came up with the First Amendment, they had to pass the Second Amendment to protect yourself from your own big mouth. :D

b-troll

August 6th, 2012
11:09 am

Nikki Haley is po’d

Recon 0311 2533

August 6th, 2012
11:12 am

“Hillary and team got attacked by bees.”

Give this some time and at some point Hillary will tell how she came under fire in Africa.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 6th, 2012
11:13 am

Adam

August 6th, 2012
11:07 am

Adam,

I heard they were Apis Mellifera supremacists…

Jefferson

August 6th, 2012
11:13 am

The chicken man can say whatever he wants, its how he spends money that bugs some, if he gave jack to the PLO, the hebrews would be upset.

USMC

August 6th, 2012
11:13 am

“Sifting through the details of another mass shooting”–Jay Bookman

I remember running across a small group of “white supremacists” in one of the last Infantry units I was assigned to in the Far East. I never saw this ANYWHERE else in the Corps.

I was SHOCKED that there was such a group of ignorant “jack asses” in my Corps.

They were ALL from Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Wisconsin. Imagine that.

The irony was that they flew the Confederate flag as though they were in Gen. Lee’s army.
AND they didn’t like me because I was from GEORGIA, The South(Talk about Twilight ZONE), and because I went to the defense of a black guy who these rednecks were targeting.

I hate to say it but whenever I see Ted Nugent in the news, I am always reminded of this bunch of thugs I encountered for my last few months in the Corps.
(not that Ted is a white Supremacist)

Anyway… This is a sad story for everyone involved.

ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT

August 6th, 2012
11:14 am

NRA = Neocon Rightwing Aholes

USMC

August 6th, 2012
11:15 am

“Nikki Haley is po’d”

That’s one fine woman! :-)

Joe the Plutocrat

August 6th, 2012
11:18 am

seems to me that we might do well to the Constitution/Founding Fathers (the very essence of “rights” or “the blessings of liberty” as it were) in general; and the Second Amendment in particular from a cynical and dispassionate place; we might see things differently. The Constitution give citizens the right to vote; but it doesn’t guarantee that “your guy” will win (even in the case of the 2000 election). it guarantees citizens the right to “bear arms” but it doesn’t guarantee that this right will be abused by some. it guarantees free speech; but it doesn’t “guarantee” citizens there will be no KKK, Westboro Baptist Church, etc. I believe the Founding Fathers were a shrewd, cynical, self-serving lot; who took it upon themselves to give We the People what we already had; in exchange for what THEY THE PLUTOCRATS wanted. remember; when the Constitution was ratified; women did not have the same rights as men; and slaves had no rights at all. in early 1942; in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor; Japanese Americans (many born in the United States) were rounded up and placed in internment camps with no due process of any kind.

JDW

August 6th, 2012
11:19 am

Another tragedy another round of guns don’t kill rationalization and spin. One day the gun nuts in this country will face up to the facts…

-The United States stands out from the rest of the world not because it has more nutcases – I think we can assume that those people are sprinkled throughout every society equally –but because it has more guns.

-The last global Small Arms Survey showed there are 88 guns for every 100 Americans. Yemen is second at 54. Serbia and Iraq are among the other countries in the top 10.

-We have 5 percent of the world’s population and 50 percent of the guns

-States with at least one firearm law (such as an assault weapons ban or trigger locks) tend to be the states with fewer gun-related deaths.

-One out of every three Americans knows someone who has been shot.

Wake up folks…its the guns.

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/27/time-to-face-facts-on-gun-control/

Peter

August 6th, 2012
11:20 am

Recon 0311 2533………. In America I am more worried about Religious Right Wing Nuts then anyone else.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 6th, 2012
11:21 am

USMC:

I hear you but keep in mind the hate (and it is hate) from White Supremist nut groups in this country is only the tip of the iceberg as compared to the hate eminating from other ethnic groups. But I don’t think you will see any balance on this blog.

Just sayin’.

Doggone/GA

August 6th, 2012
11:22 am

“Wake up folks…its the guns”

and stricter gun laws did SO MUCH to stop that killer in Norway from murdering 92 people, right?

Wake up folks, it’s the FOLKS

kelly

August 6th, 2012
11:22 am

To mistake Sikhs for Muslims is truly ignorant. Ignorance and hatred go hand in hand. Sorry folks, but it seems Obama was right about people clinging to guns, etc. Fear and ignorance. Welcome to America the Stupid.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 6th, 2012
11:23 am

Peter:

Then you are either very, very naive or you have forgotten 9/11, Ft. Hood, the First World Trade Center bombing and a “host” of others.

Erwin's cat

August 6th, 2012
11:24 am

Peter -In America I am more worried about Religious Right Wing Nuts then anyone else.

what are you worried about?…are there no religious types on the left?

USMC

August 6th, 2012
11:24 am

As a gun owner and former Marine with years of experience on most weapon systems, I think we need to seriously look at…. uh oh…. I am about to say it….. increasing regulation on fire arms….. OUCH!, there I said it…

There are WAY too many people walking around with fire arms that can’t even spell s-a-f-e-t-y, let alone are proficient enough to hit the side of a barn from 10 feet away.

You should have to QUALIFY through a fire arms SAFETY and MARKSMANSHIP training course to acquire a license to PURCHASE and OWN a firearm; similar to a Driver’s License.

Plain and Simple. :-)

getalife

August 6th, 2012
11:24 am

Looks like I was right as usual.

Joe the Plutocrat

August 6th, 2012
11:25 am

0311… please post the data or evidence to support your inane statement at 11:21. and could you be more vague? “…the hate eminating from other ethnic groups…”? please explain this observation. seriously; are you arguing that “White” hate groups are somehow stereotyped or victimized?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

August 6th, 2012
11:25 am

JDW:

It’s also the sacred 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments that release (over often just a technicality) violent criminals back into our communities everyday.

It’s a price you pay for a free society. The 2nd Amendment is no less sacred.

Have to run folks …………. everyone be nice.

Erwin's cat

August 6th, 2012
11:25 am

To mistake Sikhs for Muslims is truly ignorant

who did that?

Quagmire

August 6th, 2012
11:26 am

Welcome back Jay

Jefferson

August 6th, 2012
11:26 am

Its the bullets that could be controlled somewhat.

Peter

August 6th, 2012
11:27 am

what are you worried about?…are there no religious types on the left?

Yup. tree hugging lovers of the environment.

Williebkind

August 6th, 2012
11:27 am

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

August 6th, 2012
10:47 am
It should not end to law abiding citizens.

USMC

August 6th, 2012
11:27 am

“I hear you but keep in mind the hate (and it is hate) from White Supremist nut groups in this country is only the tip of the iceberg as compared to the hate eminating from other ethnic groups. But I don’t think you will see any balance on this blog.”

Well said Scout.

Just take a look at all of the Black on White Hate crimes that NEVER get any attention because of political correctness/Intellectual Dishonesty.

There is a lot of HATE going on right here in Atlanta.

JDW

August 6th, 2012
11:27 am

@Doggone…”and stricter gun laws did SO MUCH to stop that killer in Norway from murdering 92 people, right?”

So Norway had a single incident and yet…

“Five homicides committed with a gun were reported in Norway in 2005, the latest year for which the site has data confirming firearm-related murders in the country. In comparison, the U.S., which has a population more than 50 times greater, had 10,158 gun-related murders the same year, or 2,000 times that of Norway.”

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/23/nation/la-naw-norway-gun-policy-20110724

There is a difference between a single occasional incident and constant repetition. Norway had a tragedy, we have an epidemic…and yes gun laws should be a large part of the cure.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

August 6th, 2012
11:28 am

“In America I am more worried about Religious Right Wing Nuts then anyone else.”

Peter,
I totally agree. People who would take a life in the name of the “Prince of Peace” is beyond the pale.

Peter

August 6th, 2012
11:28 am

Jefferson . one of the best thoughts from Chris Rock is bullets should be $1000 each…. then folks would think many times before wasting them.

Peter

August 6th, 2012
11:29 am

Just take a look at all of the Black on White Hate crimes that NEVER get any attention because of political correctness/Intellectual Dishonesty.

Correct statement… How many on the Right want to vote out the ” ” ?

Recon 0311 2533

August 6th, 2012
11:29 am

There are some on here who have a real disdain for the USA. Both for today’s America as well as for our history. It’s sad to see that misguided attitude but domestic anti-Americanism has also been a part of our history and good people paid the ultimate price for people to have even that freedom of expression.

Williebkind

August 6th, 2012
11:30 am

Liberals sure are skeered of guns. I guess they cant live forever if someone owns a gun. Dont try to change the country just change where you live. I am sure Delta has a ticket for you.

JamVet

August 6th, 2012
11:30 am

What a scumbag.

So far it looks like your typical far right wing idiot with a gun. And a mental midget who didn’t even know the difference between Sikhs and Muslims.

Too bad we didn’t get a chance to drown his government hating ass in a bathtub before he murdered those innocent people.

Wonder if they’ll find any Hannity and Limbaugh books in his abode…

RB from Gwinnett

August 6th, 2012
11:31 am

TV and radio didn’t exist at the time the 1st amendment was written, so based on the same ‘logic’, should the 1st amendmend be limited to print media and spoken word?

bman

August 6th, 2012
11:31 am

Do more people die in the US from guns, or alcohol related accidents ?

JDW

August 6th, 2012
11:31 am

@0311/8541/5811/1811/1801…”It’s a price you pay for a free society. The 2nd Amendment is no less sacred.”

First off, the court is wrong, the 2nd Amendment clearly refers to “Well regulated Militia” not a gun for any nutcase. Second, it is not the price we pay for freedom it is the price we pay for insanity. Europe and Australia are in many respects more free than ourselves yet don’t suffer this constant barrage of gun related mayhem.

Doggone/GA

August 6th, 2012
11:32 am

“There is a difference between a single occasional incident and constant repetition. Norway had a tragedy, we have an epidemic…and yes gun laws should be a large part of the cure”

Except they won’t be. People set on such atrocities can always get the weapons they think they need. That will never change. All gun laws can do is restrict the people who will obey them…and set the punishments for those who won’t. They don’t stop anything.

And even if stricter gun laws WOULD inhibit some crimes, there are still knives, scissors, cars, trucks. Whatever. We can’t stop them from committing their atrocities. And stricter gun laws only make people FEEL AS IF they are protected. They (we) are not.

Williebkind

August 6th, 2012
11:32 am

““In America I am more worried about Religious Right Wing Nuts then anyone else.””

Ok name an incident? I am waiting.

Erwin's cat

August 6th, 2012
11:33 am

So far it looks like your typical far right wing idiot with a gun. And a mental midget who didn’t even know the difference between Sikhs and Muslims.

I’ve seen no reports of either

Don't Tread

August 6th, 2012
11:33 am

“…the gunman in the Wisconsin attack was armed only with a single 9mm pistol, making it difficult and indeed inappropriate to turn the event into a forum for gun-control debate”

But of course we have the Democrats who “never let a crisis go to waste”, so I’m sure we’ll see another ammunition sales ban, tax, registration scheme, executive order, or some other infringement put into play. Gun control is ALWAYS the answer as far as the Left is concerned.

curious

August 6th, 2012
11:33 am

RB from Gwinnett
August 6th, 2012
11:31 am
TV and radio didn’t exist at the time the 1st amendment was written, so based on the same ‘logic’, should the 1st amendmend be limited to print media and spoken word?

We’d probably be better off if it were.

Peter

August 6th, 2012
11:34 am

Williebkind . This weekends shooting.. for starters.

Joe the Plutocrat

August 6th, 2012
11:34 am

USMC; good points; the 2nd Amendment says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed; but it does not say “shall not be regulated”. think about it; the very same document affords Congress the right(s) to regulate Commerce and to declare war. it’s not so much the fact that a person could purchase 6,000 rounds of ammunition (online), so much as it is a question of why such a purchase did not raise a few eyebrows. I admit the deck is stacked; and relying on bureacrats and politicians is oxymoronic at best; but we saw what the banksters did when Stegall-Glass was repealed (and what the politicians did NOT do with Dood-Frank); so it’s a crap shoot at best; but some common-sense regulation is probably not a bad thing

stands for decibels (SfBA)

August 6th, 2012
11:34 am

You should have to QUALIFY through a fire arms SAFETY and MARKSMANSHIP training course to acquire a license to PURCHASE and OWN a firearm; similar to a Driver’s License.

I might go a bit further and require scenario-based training in order to get a CCW permit, but otherwise, yeah.

USMC

August 6th, 2012
11:34 am

“Jefferson . one of the best thoughts from Chris Rock is bullets should be $1000 each…. then folks would think many times before wasting them.”–Peter

Based on the other garbage that Peter has posted, I am not surprised at his level of ignorance.

Peter, you obviously don’t know squat about ammunition and/or how EASY it is to produce your own ammo.

So let’s not go down the “Dead-end Road”. Did we tell you that it leads to no where??? :-)