A Plan B should TSPLOST fail? Realistically, I doubt it
So is there a Plan B should metro Atlanta reject the one-penny sales tax for transportation?
Theoretically, sure there is. State law says regional leaders can propose another list of projects to voters in two years, when many who oppose the current list argue that a “better” list would be more likely to win voter approval.
That’s wishful thinking. The same political forces that produced a list that is too heavy on transit to some, and too light on transit to others, will still be in play come 2014, and at best will produce a list much like this one.
Besides, let’s be honest: Most who oppose this T-SPLOST would also oppose any future tax increase for transportation. Their opposition is based not on these specific projects but on the idea of a transportation tax increase, period. That will not change.
And frankly, I doubt that two years from now, public officials would be able to agree on any list at all. As highly politicized and contentious as this process has become, elected local officials will be much less willing to engage again in the give-and-take that was necessary to produce the current list, and much more likely to grandstand in defense of their own small corner of the region.
For example, even if Cobb County Chairman Tim Lee survives his current primary challenge, I doubt he’ll be willing to stick his neck out once again on behalf of regional projects. If Lee does not survive, his fate will become an object lesson for other local officials. The spirit of cooperation that allowed regional leaders to support the current list unanimously will never be recaptured should voters reject this plan.
And of course, if the measure does fail, it won’t be hard to find people to blame. Near the top of the list will be former Gov. Sonny Perdue, who year after year told Georgia to Go Fish rather than focus on transportation, and who in the end left us this convoluted funding mechanism as his legacy.
In his last days in office, Perdue also broke the state’s longstanding pledge not to extend tolls on Georgia 400, shattering what was left of public faith that political leaders will keep their word on such issues. And while Gov. Nathan Deal’s announcement this week that he would end the extended tolls at the end of 2013 explicitly acknowledges the damage done by Perdue’s move, it may have come too late.
Fingers will also be pointed at state legislative leaders, who shucked off responsibility for making tough decisions onto local leaders, then sat back and in some cases took potshots at what those local elected leaders decided.
In the end, though, the failure will be our own. This will be the first time in the history of the Atlanta region that it has the chance to actually debate, vote and act as a region. Defeat would mean that we failed that test. It would mean that voters inside the perimeter became too concerned that voters outside the perimeter might be getting a better deal, and vice versa, and that voters in general lacked faith in their public institutions to perform what is really a very basic function of government.
And if we prove to have no faith in our leaders or institutions, why should outsiders looking to invest time, energy and money have that faith either?
– Jay Bookman
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477 comments Add your comment
KID
July 20th, 2012
8:58 am
Yeah and if it doesn’t pass, we will quickly become the Detroit of the south. Good summary Jay.
Doggone/GA
July 20th, 2012
8:59 am
“The ONLY way to fix our traffic problem is to build a bypass to Florida”
If they don’t use I285 now, what makes you think they will use a bypass? The idea I had was to have express lanes through Atlanta. You get on them outside I285 and you can’t get off until you are outside I285 on the other side.
Smoke&Mirrors
July 20th, 2012
8:59 am
And if A fails, and a plan B magically materializes … then there will be those same folks waiting for plan C… and so on, and so on.
They are the same folks that complain about the politicians, and then keep voting them into office!
Ignorance is bliss. Many folks keep reaching a conclusion, and then searching for tidbits to support their fragile position. A perfect way to make truly bad decisions.
TaxPayer
July 20th, 2012
9:01 am
Gropefor Moregrits should come out with a pledge where Republicans promise not to bypass their pledge to not raise taxes by claiming to be putting their tax hikes before the people to decide. Fees are okay though. Collect an annual road use fee based on vehicle mileage.
Newnandawg
July 20th, 2012
9:01 am
Of course we don’t trust our politicians. Why would we give them more of our money?
I don’t think it has anything to do with “inside the perimeter” or “outside the perimeter”. The voters know special interests are driving this TSPLOST effort.
I, for one, will be proud of GA voters for rejecting this new tax.
Lily
July 20th, 2012
9:03 am
I’m voting “no”. The two road projects in my rural district are not needed.
However, IF Atlanta had somehow managed to get its act together and put a plan on the table that increased rail transit, I would have voted “yes”.
I’m not against raising taxes. I’m against short-term, short-sighted plans….which seem to be the only plans GA is capable of creating.
Mighty Righty
July 20th, 2012
9:05 am
A new one percent sales tax on everything each of us buys is one percent of 90 percent of our net income for the rest of our lives. TSPLOST is not insignificant. Future politicians will have no obligation to to use this money for any specific purpose. The key is for we taxpayers to restrict government’s income to force them to spend wisely or we replace them with others who will. If we do that, we may be able to avoid the economic collapes experienced by Californai, Illinois, New York, Greece, Spain and others. It is past time to reduce our wants and to increase our vigilence.
Adam
July 20th, 2012
9:06 am
godless, cat, It wasn’t actually a quote. I made it up.
I also made up the idea that Limbaugh is responsible.
GOTCHA!
But in all seriousness I am sure Limbaugh will say something about this, and it wouldn’t surprise me if he made the accusation that a liberal was the gunman and he was trying to scare us all into gun control.
RB from Gwinnett
July 20th, 2012
9:07 am
Jay, can you post the actual list of projects that will be done in the order they will be done? Would be good to see the actual list from the DOT.
Adam
July 20th, 2012
9:09 am
In fact I expect the following from the right about the shooting incident:
-”isolated incident”
-It’s the liberals fault
-Don’t respond with gun control
-Don’t respond with metal detectors
What I DON’T expect to hear from the right: “We need to help the mentally ill”
I am sure there will be other nonsense, like maybe how big government is the reason we even have midnight showings or something.
Cosby
July 20th, 2012
9:09 am
T-SPLOST is ripe with corruption From MARTA spending $1.5mm to spruce up the airport station, to Government Officials stating it is not a transportation tax but an economic stimulus tax, to the big paving road construction companies spending tons of money to promote, to the 25% from each region returning to Atlanta to the vote date in a primary vote in lieu of a National vote to include the Presidential vote which draws more votes to Deal removing the toll on 400 weeks before voting to Cox enterprises spending tons of money, to the powerful politicians brow beating those politicians who are saying no…this TAX reeks of graft and corruption and no narry a word of accountability of why they need more money when they do not have to tell where they wasted what they have – 1 billio0n dollars in projects by the GADOT that were never done..geeze VOTE NO as many times as you can!!!
the cat
July 20th, 2012
9:12 am
Adam-you are one sick individual.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
July 20th, 2012
9:13 am
A new one percent sales tax on everything each of us buys is one percent of 90 percent of our net income for the rest of our lives.
Someone is only saving 10% of their net income? Or is this some new math? But don’t forget, the 1% can always travel, and ya know, they dont charge this tax in NY, CA, Paris or London.
Ya might just want to work on making your fearbite even plausible and not just some numbers you pull out your arse
Jefferson
July 20th, 2012
9:15 am
The “regional” selling point was so that the rest of the state don’t feel like they are paying for Atlanta’s problems. Right, wrong or indifference that’s the perception. You can’t do nothing. In the end taxes will go up for either gas or property and those elected are playing the GOP supporters for fools because they don’t have the balls to throw them out for the other party. What brought them to power is the same reason they should be booted out. Party above results is just stupid. Make them earn their jobs.
Adam
July 20th, 2012
9:15 am
Thank you cat. Sorry I fooled you.
Ok I’m not really. But it should tell you something that you so readily believed that I believed that stuff.
Erwin's cat
July 20th, 2012
9:15 am
Adam predicts the CO shooting will become political while he makes it political with made up quotes and predictions
Misty Fyed
July 20th, 2012
9:16 am
Keep… I’ve tried that argument on all the transplanted northerners who complain constantly about the south….It doesn’t work. They are still here.
Jeffrey
July 20th, 2012
9:17 am
Whether deal made yesterday’s 400 move for this or not, I applaud it The extension of the 400 toll was ridiculous and I only drive that way once a month tops. As an intowner who didn’t vote for deal I have been pleasantly surprised now with a couple of things he has done. I am hoping tsplost will make it, and benefit all of us. Btw, if you don’t think things change around here fast, when I moved here just over twenty years ago you could get anywhere in this metro area in twenty minutes. That seems like ancient history now.
Beth
July 20th, 2012
9:17 am
Go fish is a irrelevant hair shirt for Jay.
You can tell TSPLOST is in big trouble becasue the finger pointing is starting. Jay is just trying to salvage a little political advantage out of the coming carnage. What Jay will never admit is that the project list was deeply flawed becasue fixing our traffic problems was not the primary criteria for including projects. TSPLOST included a pack of projects all around changing how we live an work, some quality of life projects and some development projects. But, it neglected to focus like a laser on transportation.
As for Tim Lee, I hope he does not survive his primary challenge. Tim supported a rail line from Cumberland to the Arts center over projects that would have had much more benefit to untying traffic than a transit line along a mostly uncongested corridor. Tim sold out his constituents who are stuck in traffic every day. He deserves to lose.
Adam
July 20th, 2012
9:17 am
Erwin’s Cat: Adam predicts the CO shooting will become political while he makes it political with made up quotes and predictions
Yes…. On one single blog where I apparently have the ability to influence people to FOLLOW RULES that I made up or something. SVENGALI. SVENGALIIIIIIII!
This isn’t the only place you get your news, is it?
John Birch
July 20th, 2012
9:18 am
Some subhuman moronic creature is trying to politicize the shooting in Colorado? Early leader in the most pathetic lib contest.
Misty Fyed
July 20th, 2012
9:18 am
I need opinions. I’m not asking if we need a transportation bill. I’m not asking if you oppose raising taxes. Is TSPLOST a good bill? Do you think it will have an impact?
Aquagirl
July 20th, 2012
9:18 am
I have seen too many pet projects (hello Go Fish) to trust any of our current crop of hand outstretched, money under the table politicians to assume anything will be different this time. Will vote NO!
Yep, no plan beyond complaining about politicians and squalling no.
Thought so.
Jeffrey
July 20th, 2012
9:19 am
Adam, I think the right would be fine with metal detectors and probably body searches too.
Adam
July 20th, 2012
9:21 am
Jeffrey: Adam, I think the right would be fine with metal detectors and probably body searches too.
But… but… FREEDOM!
Also doesn’t it increase the likelihood a crazy gunman won’t come into a movie theater with guns if he KNOWS everyone else might have a gun? Isn’t that how this argument works?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
July 20th, 2012
9:21 am
Misty, and where would Atlanta be today if not for those who have moved here as part of its growth? See what your property values will be when they start to move away because of better transportation in other cities.
Adam
July 20th, 2012
9:21 am
John Birch: Well since you, and every other con here, claims not to EVER EVER listen to Rush, I am sure you will miss it when he starts talking about this.
Erwin's cat
July 20th, 2012
9:21 am
Adam I don’t get any of my “news” here!
I never said you have influence, just pointing out your “no need to let a crisis go to waste” mentality to push your political ideaology
Misty Fyed
July 20th, 2012
9:23 am
Well it seems my property values are pretty much the same as when the exodus started.
I was being facetious anyway. I love my yankee brethren. They just arent as good of drivers in the snow as they think they are.
godless heathen
July 20th, 2012
9:24 am
GOTCHA!
I didn’t realize it was “just make sheet up, Friday”
the cat
July 20th, 2012
9:26 am
Aquagirl-the plan is to vote out the unethical politicians, duh. I didn’t vote for them and will do my best to make sure they are voted out! If that is your idea of squalling or doing nothing you haven’t gotten out much or haven’t been voting very long.
scrappy
July 20th, 2012
9:27 am
It took me 1 hour to drive home last night, 15 miles, from North Fulton to East Cobb, against traffic, with no schools and no rain. I can’t wait till school starts! Or even better when it rains this afternoon for Friday evening rush hour, Yippe – hours in my car!
I can’t get another job, because any job posting that are too far to the south of the city, or east of the city would take me even longer, so that cuts my job search by 1/4. (can’t sell my house either, thanks to the tanked home market – of which the horrible transportation also plays a part – without paying someone to take it)
Finally – something is trying to be done about transportation – and the response: We don’t trust the politicans. FOOLS! You idiots are the ones that voted for all of these politicans (all GOP, by the way, in case you have forgotten). Try voting for some real honest people instead.
I will be voting yes, however, I feel this will not pass. I realize that most of the projects are also not going to directly affect me, but if congestion is relieved on other places, it has a counter-effect on others. If 400 is better, there will be less people on 9 or other smaller roads. If 75 is better, there will be less people on J Ferry or 9 or 120. If 285 moves better, 75 & 85 will move better. If interchanges & exits are better, 285 will move better. All of the traffic is connected, so saying the projects “aren’t in my area” is pure rubbish.
Joe Hussein Mama
July 20th, 2012
9:28 am
Carlos — “You can thank whomever selects the vents for online publishing for a portion of TSPLOST’s failure. He/she published a vent saying that an extra 1% tax would amount to $2000 on a $20,000 automobile purchase. Because neither the AJC employee in charge of The Vent, nor the venting party could perform 4th grade arithemetic, many people will over estimate the cost of this tax. Thansk AJC. I’ll be thinking of you when I’m stuck in traffic.”
Never attribute to incompetence that which can be just as easily explained by good old-fashioned mendacity.
John Birch
July 20th, 2012
9:28 am
Adam – In my opinion he’s made a fortune pandering to extremist views, which I seriously doubt he even believes. I think I once read that the man didn’t even vote until he started the radio show. And no, I don’t listen to him.
Voting yes on TSPLOST is paying tribute to the devil.
Jm
July 20th, 2012
9:29 am
Rb
List available on the AJC website
I think under the Atlanta forward section
The 400-285 junction is the biggest road project
$400 million I believe, + or -
JohnnyReb
July 20th, 2012
9:31 am
Two things will take down TSPLOST.
A project list that includes the Belt Line and other special projects like a regional airport control tower. The wisdom of the group picking the projects is obviously flawed, why should anyone trust them/politicians.
A vote during the recission when anti-tax increase rules the day.
TSPLOST is the shinning example that politicians don’t have a clue how to get the job done.
Joe Hussein Mama
July 20th, 2012
9:32 am
M. Righty — ” The key is for we taxpayers to restrict government’s income to force them to spend wisely or we replace them with others who will. If we do that, we may be able to avoid the economic collapes experienced by Californai, Illinois, New York, Greece, Spain and others. It is past time to reduce our wants and to increase our vigilence.”
Penny wise, pound foolish.
Jm
July 20th, 2012
9:34 am
The tsplost plan balances spending money from where it is raised
ITP gets transit $ (ITP GENERATES A HUGE AMOUNT OF RHE TAX REVENUE) and OTP get $ for roads and highways
The plan is pretty equitably balanced
stands for decibels (SfBA)
July 20th, 2012
9:35 am
“Some subhuman moronic creature is trying to politicize the shooting in Colorado?”
Well yeah, that’s going to happen. for example…
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2908556/posts
Zero now has his platform for a new AWB and massive gun control.
24/7 coverage of “Evil gun owners” coming for the rest of the summer.
[...]
Also guessing the perp in custody is a 22yo angry white boy
… with a “V for Vendetta” face mask, and a keen interest in drum circles.
[...]
The violence will grow exponentially the closer we get to November. It’s all part of The Plan.
[...]
If anyone still is lacking in 2nd ammendment supplies, they better hurry the heck up and buy them up. If Obummer wins in November, it will be a full court press against the 2nd Ammendment on multiple fronts.
Aquagirl
July 20th, 2012
9:35 am
the plan is to vote out the unethical politicians, duh.
Cat, they’re politicians. Good luck trying to vote all the unethical ones out.
So do you have a plan for this, besides writing in “Godot” repeatedly?
stands for decibels (SfBA)
July 20th, 2012
9:36 am
My post @ 9/35 was the result of simply googling free republic dark knight, and looking at the most recent link to appear on my first screen, if anyone was wondering.
Plenty of other “subhuman moronic creatures” I could’ve quoted from the link, but I really think I made my point already.
stands for decibels (SfBA)
July 20th, 2012
9:38 am
So do you have a plan for this, besides writing in “Godot” repeatedly?
Hereby nominated for post of the week.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
July 20th, 2012
9:40 am
but I really think I made my point already
Well yes, for those with comprehension…. but do you realize the closed minds you are dealing with? first time here?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
July 20th, 2012
9:40 am
Jay,
You refer to “leaders” in your text…who dat? None in Washington and dang sure none hiding beneath the gold rotunda. Also, I thought someone got rid of the toll…for one day. Perhaps that was the Hawks groveling for folks to overspend on tickets.
Does anyone want to bet we will all be going thru metal detectors and incurr the additional ticket price of offset same in theatres near you soon?
Carlos
July 20th, 2012
9:40 am
–Carlos, I would like to believe the Vent editor was merely giving an anti-TSPLOSTer rope to hang himself.
I would like to agree, but based on numerous past vents with major factual errors, I believe you’re over estimating the Vent editor. If it were a planned strategy, I would only expect it in some sort of sensationalist publication such as “The National Enquirer” or any Murdoch rag.
Jimmy62
July 20th, 2012
9:41 am
I have no faith in our local leaders, be it the mayor, the city council, or the governor.
How about this: Put something in the bill about how the officials who wrote it have to face actual consequences if certain things don’t come true. Using the 400 toll bill as an example, what if part of the bill was that the people who signed it had to spend 5 years in jail if the toll didn’t end when the bill said it would end? Then those people would actually put effort into making sure their promises were kept, rather than just saying, “Oh well, I’m not up for reelection, I don’t have to keep my word since there are no consequences.”
Junior Samples
July 20th, 2012
9:41 am
Scrappy is right.
The main argument I’m hearing is that we don’t trust our ELECTED officials with the money the one cent sales tax will generate.
Well, UN-elect them and replace them with someone you do trust. The fact of the matter is we need to take responsibility for investing in OUR own infrastructure, and the sooner we start the better off we’ll be. The current gas tax is not enough, nor will it be in the foreseeable future.
Death to the T-SPLOST
July 20th, 2012
9:42 am
No one should have to pay more taxes for transportation until the legislature appropriates the existing 4th penny of states sales tax on motor fuel to transportation. Some $150 to $200 million a year of the 4th penny goes to the general fund.
No one in Fulton or DeKalb should have to pay another penny until the legislature stops holding MARTA hostage with its ridiculous 50/50 handcuff on MARTA’s operating/capital expenses. A regional transit governance system that ends the use of MARTA to balckmail metro legislators into voting certain ways is past due as well.
It seems Mayor Reed is working on his Plan B: grabbing the $68 million sitting unused by the TADs.
Vote NO on the Sonny Pedue/Glenn Richardson plan to get to a better solution.
the cat
July 20th, 2012
9:45 am
Perhaps I am missing something. What does this mean? Godot?
So do you have a plan for this, besides writing in “Godot” repeatedly?
barking frog
July 20th, 2012
9:47 am
I believe Atlanta can pass a
SPLOST to do what it will.
Aquagirl
July 20th, 2012
9:47 am
Perhaps I am missing something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_Godot
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
July 20th, 2012
9:48 am
JIMMY,
I like your prison sentence concept. What I like better is an amendment to the constitution eliminating private cash from the entire political equation…then perhaps our needs would become the priority of our corruptresentatives instead of us being subordinate to campaign cash….in fact, 94% of elections are won by candidate who spends the most money on campaign…BO is in trouble.
Adam
July 20th, 2012
9:48 am
godless: I was feeling like making bad jokes this morning. Just to see who would get riled up. I don’t think I waited long enough to reveal my joke though and there wasn’t enough obviousness in it so I need to work on that
East Lake Ira
July 20th, 2012
9:48 am
Live in town and do a reverse commute so traffic ain’t so bad for me but I’m still going to hold my nose and vote Yes.
Sure I’m angry with the Gold Domers but that’s not going to do anything about our need as a City and Metro area to attract and maintain good high paying jobs.
Were it up to me this would be all MARTA money all the time but…
SBinf
July 20th, 2012
9:51 am
After doing my research, I was planning to vote ‘no’. Now I’m leaning toward voting yes, just so that I don’t agree with the Tea Party.
:::shudder:::
Common Sense
July 20th, 2012
9:53 am
Plan B? This is Plan B.
Plan A was those that are in charge of transportation today do their assigned jobs.
barking frog
July 20th, 2012
9:54 am
Adam
The inability to comprehend
your joke leaves you the
opportunity to mock more
people. Keep up the good
work.
Erwin's cat
July 20th, 2012
9:55 am
Adam – “joking” about 12 shot dead and 50 wounded??? …hilarious!..NOT
Jimmy62
July 20th, 2012
9:55 am
Stevie Ray: In my world, Obama would be in jail. He promised to close Guantanamo as well some other promises, and got elected based on some of those promises, and then didn’t follow through.
Granted, I didn’t agree with some of those things he promised, but I’d rather have an honest President that I disagree with than one I agree with but cannot be trusted. And one thing we know about Obama… He lies and he breaks promises.
the cat
July 20th, 2012
9:56 am
Does anyone else wonder who owned the land that was used to have the Sugarloal Parkway entrances and exits both north and south run for miles and miles before dumping into 85? I’m sure it was a Georgia politician.
Any idea how involved Sonny is with the Savannah project where his company stands to realize millions through the port?
Heck no-I do not trust anyone that even remotely will benefit from the zillions of dollars from Tsplost. Saying I don’t think this is a good idea and voting for it anyone only benefits the corrupt. Way past time to take a stand and vote out the bums and start by voting NO on this.
larry
July 20th, 2012
10:01 am
Well, i have encouraged my family who lives in Cobb County to vote yes for it. Although, i dont live down there, i do visit Atlanta on business or to visit family 4 to 5 times a month.
In our neck of the woods, the Athens region, i early voted yes. And according to my own unscientific poll, the yes and no votes are neck and neck.
I hope for our sake that it passes. This region needs the jobs badly.
stands for decibels (SfBA)
July 20th, 2012
10:01 am
the Belt Line and other special projects
I can’t fathom why any regional transportation projects list WOULDN’T include the Belt Line.
Aquagirl
July 20th, 2012
10:02 am
Heck no-I do not trust anyone that even remotely will benefit from the zillions of dollars from Tsplost.
I know—we’ll appoint a board of Section 8 welfare queens to make the list of projects.
Let us know when you’ve sold that idea to the good people of Jawja.
Road Scholar
July 20th, 2012
10:03 am
commoncents: I do not know why unless they are waiting on the tax to collect and mount up to the $ needed to build it. There are already layouts for it done! Sell bonds for it and start the construction earlier.
stands for decibels (SfBA)
July 20th, 2012
10:04 am
Section 8 welfare queens
Band Name! I’m calling it.
stands for decibels (SfBA)
July 20th, 2012
10:06 am
Obama would be in jail [...] He lies and he breaks promises.
This actually gets funnier with repeated exposure.
the cat
July 20th, 2012
10:07 am
Aquagirl-I’m thinking a group of section 8 welfare queens have a lot more intelligence than you are currently displaying. You really are embarrasing yourself but do carry on if it makes you feel important.
Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
July 20th, 2012
10:08 am
Hey Cons, what’s up with Barbara Bachmann? Where do you find these yokels?
Aquagirl
July 20th, 2012
10:11 am
I’m thinking a group of section 8 welfare queens have a lot more intelligence than you are currently displaying.
…sez the guy whose transportation plan is “vote the bums out!!!”
Somebody is embarrassing themselves here all right.
larry
July 20th, 2012
10:11 am
That is Michelle Bachman , Finn. And they found her in her husbands office , trying to cure gay people.
CC
July 20th, 2012
10:12 am
Why can’t the assembly make cuts elsewhere in the budget and direct those savings towards infrastructure? We could allow casinos with a provisional “transportation” tax for all casino revenue. You could decriminalize marijuana and push savings from not jailing non-violent drug offenders towards these projects. Give illegal immigrants a temporary GA work voucher that allows them to pay guest worker taxes directed towards transportation since our agriculture business is struggling. The answers are on the table, but we’re just failing to see that money can be acquired through restoring small albeit important liberties and creating “new” revenue streams.
Cutty
July 20th, 2012
10:13 am
Tourists and passers through will bear a good portion of this new tax. The something for nothing crowd needs to really think about what their no votes will do. I was on the fence up until a few weeks ago. Don’t think Fulton and Dekalb residents got a fair shake with the additional 1% tax, while the burbs will benefit greater and are still whining like stuck pigs.
stands for decibels (SfBA)
July 20th, 2012
10:13 am
what’s up with Barbara Bachmann?
huh? Were you thinking of Mrs. Ringo, perchance?
(I actually had no idea they were still married after 30+ years until I just checked…wow.)
JK
July 20th, 2012
10:17 am
I’ll vote NO on anything “Regional” until the people of North Fulton are allowed to choose wether or not to form Milton County.
Oscar
July 20th, 2012
10:17 am
The only reason we are voting on this is because it is a vote on whether to add a one per cent sales tax.
Road improvements should be funded out of general funds, and the projects decided by the legislature, the Department of Transportation and the county and city governments.
The public has no idea what sort of improvements or project are included. To vote up or down on a six billion dollar bill without reading it or knowing what is in it does not make sense.
We complain about sprawl. Sprawl comes from building roads. We don’t need more sprawl.
Your choice.
getalife
July 20th, 2012
10:19 am
bachmann has always been a kook.
marty
July 20th, 2012
10:20 am
Does an extension of this tax require another referendum ?
the cat
July 20th, 2012
10:21 am
Aquagirl-you are being dense and argumentative. Having a bad life?
I agree there needs to be a congestion relief plan but this isn’t it. Increasing the size of the airport tower isn’t going to help your or my commute now is it? Have you even read the list of projects or are you just happy to jump people that have a different opinion? Grow up
View From Midtown
July 20th, 2012
10:21 am
If you look at the requirements to have another vote, you’ll see that we’ll never even get to the list-making step; certainly not in time to vote in two years, and likely not ever. First the legislature (driven by the local delegation) has to pass an act to authorize (which could get done) but next, a majority of the counties (i.e. the county commissions) in the region have to pass resolutions requesting the process/vote. Based on the way this has been painted by the opposition and the resulting reaction in the suburbs, at best, I count four, maybe five, which would do so (Fulton, Dekalb, Clayton, Gwinnett and Cobb being a toss-up).
So the fact is – there is NO plan B. If the TIA vote fails, it’s done for good. The sad part is that it will take at least four years for people to realize that process isn’t going to work (as it is proven out in fact) so that means for at least four years the Atlanta region will be pummeled by other cities/regions in attracting business and investment. At least four more years the region will stagnate as others like Dallas and Charlotte move forward.
REP
July 20th, 2012
10:23 am
The solution is to split up the Atlanta region into 2 separate regions. One region would be the counties that prefer adding to mass transit, the other would the counties that prefer roads. Not ideal or perfect, but probably the best we can hope for in this instance. The likely means Fulton, DeKalb and Clayton in one region and everyone else in another.
martin the calvinist
July 20th, 2012
10:24 am
I agree w/ mighty @ 8:23, I also want to add I was disappointed with the Augusta list and starting dates, even if this passes, in ten years they will ask for an extension due to the fact the projects are underfunded and won’t be finished in time. I am willing to pay more in taxes if the revenue is spent well but unfortunately, it’s not even close to being spent properly. On both sides, we don’t have principled respectful politicans governing us….
Oscar
July 20th, 2012
10:25 am
At least four more years the region will stagnate as others like Dallas and Charlotte move forward.
_______
Move forwar to what. More roads, more traffic, more congestion and more sprawl. Atlanta does not need to move in that direction.
stands for decibels (SfBA)
July 20th, 2012
10:26 am
until the people of North Fulton are allowed to choose wether or not to form Milton County.
You mean until the state government allows any group of county citizens to secede and form their own little mini-county whenever they feel like doing so?
Why in the holy name of all that is holy would a state government allow groups to splinter off, willy nilly, like that?
I’ve heard some dumb cases made for that pretend “Milton County” some talk about, but that might be the dumbest yet.
stands for decibels (SfBA)
July 20th, 2012
10:28 am
Increasing the size of the airport tower isn’t going to help your or my commute now is it?
no, but it certainly falls within the scope of a regional transportation plan. Which isn’t merely about daily commutes.
stands for decibels (SfBA)
July 20th, 2012
10:29 am
The likely means Fulton, DeKalb and Clayton in one region
Do they get to put up a big fence and charge admission for out-of-county residents who want to use their streets and mass transit?
(Maybe a bubble, to keep the ER choppers out, as well.)
Oscar
July 20th, 2012
10:29 am
The idea that there will be no improvements or road maintenance if there is a no vote just does not hold up. There are other ways to fund improvements and maintenance than adding a regressive sales tax.
stands for decibels (SfBA)
July 20th, 2012
10:30 am
The public has no idea what sort of improvements or project are included.
whose frickin’ fault is that?
“Gee, I’m too lame to google ga tsplost project list. wahhh is me.”
Oscar
July 20th, 2012
10:31 am
stands for decibels (SfBA)
July 20th, 2012
10:29 am
______
A gate with a toll booth to cross into the counties. I am sure that sounds good to some people.
Joe Hussein Mama
July 20th, 2012
10:31 am
T. Cat — “I agree there needs to be a congestion relief plan but this isn’t it. Increasing the size of the airport tower isn’t going to help your or my commute now is it?”
I don’t know if you’ve ever been down at Hartsfield late on a Sunday night or first thing on Monday morning, but I commuted by air weekly for six years in my work, and there are a lot of other people in the same boat.
Frankly, I’d rather deal with Hartsfield twice a week than 285 twice a day.
BADAss BING
July 20th, 2012
10:33 am
Don’t know what the T stands for, but SPLOST is the sound that a bug makes on my windshield (but not in ATL traffic).
the cat
July 20th, 2012
10:35 am
JHM-please explain how increasing the size of the airport tower in Cobb county will help anyone’s commute on 285 to hartsfield airport.
Joe Hussein Mama
July 20th, 2012
10:36 am
T. Cat — “JHM-please explain how increasing the size of the airport tower in Cobb county will help anyone’s commute on 285 to hartsfield airport.”
More air commuters = fewer ground commuters. Pretty simple, isn’t it?
You don’t think that Hartsfield is the only airfield that business travelers use around here, do you?
Adam
July 20th, 2012
10:37 am
The thing we should take away from the Colorado shootings is that we need to help the mentally ill. And yes, this time I was serious.
stands for decibels (SfBA)
July 20th, 2012
10:37 am
SPLOST is the sound that a bug makes on my windshield
It appears to take real talent (which I am lacking) to enunciate that word clearly.
Adam
July 20th, 2012
10:37 am
Excuse me, shooting, singular
Joe Hussein Mama
July 20th, 2012
10:40 am
B. Bing — “Don’t know what the T stands for, but SPLOST is the sound that a bug makes on my windshield (but not in ATL traffic).”
I believe it’s also the Marvel Comics noise that Captain America’s shield makes when it smacks a bad guy right in his pasty mush.
the cat
July 20th, 2012
10:41 am
I would say that PDK has more business travelers but I see your point. Is this runway long enough to accommodate corporate jets?
Aquagirl
July 20th, 2012
10:42 am
Have you even read the list of projects or are you just happy to jump people that have a different opinion?
Yes, I have, and anybody who wants to see them can find them in multiple forms at
http://www.metroatlantatransportationvote.com/#factsheets
cat, I realize this is making you angry. But if you don’t like other people questioning your opinion, don’t flap it all over a blog. Duhcakes. You don’t have a right to kowtowing and A+ for showing up. This isn’t APS.
BTW, I most definitely question people whose opinions seem impractical, like “deport all the illegals.” If you get irritated when I ask how you intend to accomplish a task and if you think it’s feasible, then maybe you should reconsider your opinion. Telling me to “grow up” isn’t even entertaining in a snarky way. It’s just a boring leakage of passive-aggressive frustration.
Anyway, if your story is say no to the T-SPLOST and you’re stickin’ to it, I will leave you alone.
getalife
July 20th, 2012
10:42 am
Well, some bloggers made death threats about the movie, rush demonized the movie and gop cut mental health funding.
Joe Hussein Mama
July 20th, 2012
10:44 am
T. Cat — “I would say that PDK has more business travelers but I see your point. Is this runway long enough to accommodate corporate jets?”
I’m pretty sure that both PDK and Charlie Brown handle corporate jets. I know that Briscoe Field management out in Gwinnett wants to handle more of that sort of traffic, but they have a lot of citizen opposition because of how close the field is to residential areas. I’ve looked it over and I agree, that field is WAY too close to houses for them to handle more than light traffic.