American history, as told through the two Romneys

mitt2010

georgerom

The political debate continues to be dominated by questions involving GOP nominee Mitt Romney and his financial history, more particularly his refusal to release any tax information other than his 2010 return and an estimate of his 2011 taxes.

The decision to withhold the information has begun to perplex even conservative pundits such as William Kristol (”It’s crazy”) to George Will (”He must have calculated that there are higher costs in releasing them).” In many cases, unflattering comparisons are being drawn between Romney and his father, George, who as a candidate for the GOP nomination in 1968 began the modern practice of tax disclosure by releasing 12 years of his returns.

While that debate rages, I thought it might be interesting to study what we know of the two Romneys not for what it might tell us about their character, openness, etc., but about the time and place in which each man lived.

Take a look at the thumbnail financial descriptions posted on the right. The younger Romney, as a passive, non-working investor now drawing upon his success at Bain Capital, collected income in 2010 amounting to 439 times the median household income of his fellow Americans.

His father, during a 12-year period in which he mainly worked as chairman and president of American Motors, earned an average annual income that was 44 times that of the median household income of his fellow Americans. Adjusted for inflation, his average income of $247,743 in 1965 dollars would be $1.7 million today.

In the ’50s and ’60s, a period considered the economic heyday of a free and capitalist post-war America, George Romney paid 37 percent of his income in federal taxes.

By 2010, Romney’s son paid a total of 13.9 percent of his income in federal taxes, this in an America that is supposedly well on its way to becoming a socialist state, with a confiscatory federal government intent on stealing the wealth of its highest earners.

Reality, in other words, directly contradicts mythology, but with little apparent effect. The fact that the “socialist” meme not only survives but thrives despite its obvious absurdity is, I would argue, testimony to the perception-altering power of propaganda. Or as the elder Romney might put it, a case of brainwashing.

– Jay Bookman

645 comments Add your comment

Robert

July 16th, 2012
4:25 pm

and Jay is flat out lying. He is comparing George Romney’s income tax to Mitt’s capital gains tax. Mitt has already paid income tax on that money

josef

July 16th, 2012
4:27 pm

Mitt ain’t his Daddy’s boy in more than just this…not saying anything against his Mama, mind you, I just think he’s a foundling.

Joe Hussein Mama

July 16th, 2012
4:28 pm

Robert — “and Jay is flat out lying”

Rowbairt, insulting one’s host is never wise online.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

July 16th, 2012
4:30 pm

WEALTH ENVY!

Just thought I’d get that over with early on.

Erwin's cat

July 16th, 2012
4:30 pm

Could be that there is nothing in those income tax returns and he’s use it as a red herring distraction much like the Obama birth certificate…what will you do when he releases the 23yrs he gave McCain and there’s no smoking gun?

josef

July 16th, 2012
4:31 pm

CAT

Would be funny, wouldn’t it?

They BOTH suck

July 16th, 2012
4:34 pm

EC

It is game playing time and they are all playing.

TaxPayer

July 16th, 2012
4:34 pm

Fred ™

July 16th, 2012
4:36 pm

Yawn. Another hatchet job on Romney.

Really? Yo Jay, instead of following the talk radio lead of trashing a candidate, why don’t you regale us with Obama’s virtues instead?

You are starting to sound like that idiot Sean Hannity and his “Stop HillaryObama Express.

You gonna start trying to scare us all next like the Republicans do?

After this I really DO need a beer. Later all.

They both: If you didn’e see it, I left you a message (and tune, montage) downstairs.

Joe Hussein Mama

July 16th, 2012
4:36 pm

E. Cat — “Could be that there is nothing in those income tax returns and he’s use it as a red herring distraction much like the Obama birth certificate…what will you do when he releases the 23yrs he gave McCain and there’s no smoking gun?”

My wife and I were discussing that very point over the weekend, but we concluded that there *had* to be something damaging in them — otherwise, why would McCain have chosen Palin over Romney as a running mate? Romney had a full term as Governor under his belt, had managed a much larger budget, had extensive business experience (so we’ve been told), and we just couldn’t see what Palin had over all that EXCEPT for her gender.

Either McCain was more desperate than we’ve been led to believe or else there really is something damaging in the tax returns. Or maybe both. :D

Aquagirl

July 16th, 2012
4:37 pm

Mitt has already paid income tax on that money

Well, you can guess he did, but since we didn’t see the previous tax returns that’s an assumption on your part.

Fred ™

July 16th, 2012
4:37 pm

Oh, and why in the hell should a candidates privacy be invaded by showing his tax returns? It’s nobody’s damn business.

arnold

July 16th, 2012
4:37 pm

I have not seen the nationalization of any private enterprise. Why the worry about socialism?

Jay

July 16th, 2012
4:37 pm

Robert is entitled to express his opinion. He’s also entitled to be wrong, of course, and in this case he is making full use of that right.

For example, much of the elder Romney’s income in those years was also capital gains, in the form of stock options from AMC.

In addition, much of the younger Romney’s income is NOT capital gains, but rather income that he earned as commission in his private equity business that through the carried interest loophole is misclassified as capital gains.

Third, the “they already paid corporate tax” argument would be much stronger if so many corporations had not, in fact, paid taxes.

Fourth, the extremely favored treatment given capital gains in the modern tax code is part of the basic point of the comparison in the first place.

Joe Hussein Mama

July 16th, 2012
4:38 pm

Fred — “Oh, and why in the hell should a candidates privacy be invaded by showing his tax returns? It’s nobody’s damn business.”

Read Jay’s piece.

Blame Romney’s dad for starting the practice.

Brosephus™

July 16th, 2012
4:38 pm

Jay

I don’t think you’re looking at history from the correct perspective on this one. On the surface, they are both one and the same. They are capitalists who are/were good at what they did during their era in US history. The real story is the de-evolution of what we call capitalism. During the elder Romney’s period, capitalist did not bite the hand that fed them, i.e. they understood and realized that a strong country allowed them to benefit from their endeavors. Nowadays, the top class has taken capitalism hostage and removed most all teeth that protected the system from greed. The current idea of “every man for himself” would not have been welcomed back in the earlier days when capitalism was at it’s best.

carlosgvv

July 16th, 2012
4:40 pm

George Romney had to work his way up the financial ladder to make it to the top.

Mitt was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and, as such, hasen’t a clue as to what sort of financial cares average Americans have. He went to the best schools, had the best clothes, the best cars, in short – the best of everything.

It’s not suprising that his true allegiance is to the rich, since these people are the only ones he’s ever really known or identified with.

So, if you want a President of the rich, by the rich and for the rich, vote for Romney.

s

Lucifer

July 16th, 2012
4:40 pm

Robert: Calling someone a “liar.” Where’s your manners?

kitty

July 16th, 2012
4:41 pm

The difference between Obama’s BC and Romney’s tax returns is no one has certified Romney’s tax returns have no smoking gun pointed at them. I agree with George Will…what in the world is he hiding? Much ado about nothing if there is nothing damaging there and he won’t release them just to be…what?…ornery? He could let the air out of Obama’s balloon by releasing them if there is nothing there and make a big deal about it. But Romney is sure putting up a fuss about them.

josef

July 16th, 2012
4:42 pm

Fred

I agree with you for Joe Citizen, but when you’re running for public office, no go. I want to know how much you make, where it came from, how much tax did you pay and to whom are you beholden.

Recon 0311 2533

July 16th, 2012
4:42 pm

Jay, this attack isn’t resonating with the voters. The national polls have barely moved and Obama has spent over 100 mil on various attack ad’s since April. I found it laughable that some of your guys downstairs are finding false solace in the electoral map at this early date. The state polls won’t reveal anything significant until September. The Obama campaign is urinating into a strong head wind running these ads with their false allegations and it may backfire severely as the economy is expecting further deterioration.

Jm (LL) -pass TSPLOST silly people

July 16th, 2012
4:43 pm

1. Mitt didn’t write the tax code, our current and former presidents and congresses did

2. Individual tax rates are meaningless since all the corporate taxes paid by mitt are not seen

3. This is because mitt is an investor and George was a wage earner

4. So mitt is likely paying a higher effective rate than his dad if his investments are in stocks, but you can’t tell that from personal tax returns

Conclusion: jays blog post not accurate or detailed enough to be relevant to the dialogue about tax rates

Road Scholar

July 16th, 2012
4:43 pm

Jay there you go again….facts! And you know the conserves heads would explode…but…but…but…like a ticking time bomb!

N-GA

July 16th, 2012
4:43 pm

Looks like Robert is not coming out for Round 2……..

kitty

July 16th, 2012
4:44 pm

Brosephus: “The current idea of “every man for himself” would not have been welcomed back in the earlier days when capitalism was at it’s best.”

The earlier days of capitalism right after WWII came after the country came together to fight for its very survival. The attitude was “one for all and all for one”…now it is “Give me mine and get out of my way. Who cares about you?” That in itself dooms us to destruction IMO.

kayaker 71

July 16th, 2012
4:44 pm

Why is Romney’s wealth so much of a liberal issue. John Kerry and his wife were, and are, worth over 750M. The Kennedys worth a whole lot more. Nancy Pelosi is worth close to 50M. Bill Gates is the richest liberal in the land. Warren Buffett has gazillions of dollars, even John Edwards is estimated to have close to 50M in the bank. We can’t have a rich president? Sure could have fooled me.

TaxPayer

July 16th, 2012
4:44 pm

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

July 16th, 2012
4:44 pm

During the elder Romney’s period, capitalist did not bite the hand that fed them, i.e. they understood and realized that a strong country allowed them to benefit from their endeavors. Nowadays, the top class has taken capitalism hostage and removed most all teeth that protected the system from greed.

Goes back to the concept of skyboxification that I heard a few weeks ago. Even back in the “good old days” the difference in price of the cheapest seats at a ball game and the most expensive seats wasn’t that much and the rain fell on everyone.

Thomas Heyward Jr.

July 16th, 2012
4:47 pm

When asked whether he would have signed the recent National Defense Authorization Act of 2012, the traitor-wanna-be Romney said, “I would have signed.”
.
The Traitor Obama DID sign it.
.

So much for the protection of what’s really important – the inalienable rights of American citizens.
.
Pay no attention to this.
.
LOOK!……………….there goes a crony-capitalist billionaire.

Jm (LL) -pass TSPLOST silly people

July 16th, 2012
4:48 pm

George Romney was CEO earning wage income from before 1955 until 1962

Please reboot analysis Jay :)

zeke

July 16th, 2012
4:49 pm

if obama’s ads not resonating why are george will & kristol and others peeing their pants

Jay

July 16th, 2012
4:49 pm

I also find it interesting to see bloggers who have harped on Timothy Geithner’s previous tax problems turn around and insist that there is no need whatsoever to give the same level of scrutiny to candidates for president.

Total transparency for a Cabinet secretary, but none for the guy who hires and fires him? Do you guys even hear yourselves?

TaxPayer

July 16th, 2012
4:49 pm

Romney’s self-claimed experience in creating US jobs has been brought into question and Romney’s use of off-shore accounts has been brought into question and Romney’s unusually high 401k value has been brought into question… His wealth. It seems that cons are more interested in that aspect, likely as yet another attempt to divert from the more important issues.

Lucifer

July 16th, 2012
4:49 pm

Here, Here, Carlos. Voters get the government they deserve. If Romney gets in, his fat cat friends will greatly benefit. Those in the middle-class will become fewer, and then Romney, et. al., will pull the rug out from under the once middle-class, now the poor, by eliminating Social Security, Medicare and other important government programs. However, if the rich aren’t careful and get too greedy too fast, even the dim bulbs among us might eventually catch on and begin a movement to take government back — by any means available.

Brosephus™

July 16th, 2012
4:50 pm

Kam

I think I saved that article back when you first brought that term here. That’s a very valid observation of today’s society. I can only imagine how historians will describe this era.

N-GA

July 16th, 2012
4:50 pm

Jay….I agree with you and think Romney should disclose his financials. One could conclude that he might have income from Bain that conflicts with his denials that he stopped working there in February, 2002. On the other hand, the highest FIT rate in 1960 was 91% while the highest FIT rate now is 35%. The capital gains rate was 20% (I believe) then and is 15% now. I don’t know if tax law in 1960 had a carried interest loophole. In order to make a real comparison we would need to apply the same rates to the inflation-adjusted dollars, no?

scott

July 16th, 2012
4:50 pm

439 times the median income paid only 13.9 percent in taxes and poor georgia rednecks will vote for him anyway knowing fools well he dont have their best interest in mind ..just keep voting your interst away ..the RICH IS GETTING RICHER THE GEORGIA REDNECK IS GETTING POORER

Jm (LL) -pass TSPLOST silly people

July 16th, 2012
4:50 pm

Pelosi is rich from insider trading

She should be in jail

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

July 16th, 2012
4:50 pm

LOOK!……………….there goes a crony-capitalist billionaire.

LOOK!……………….There goes a CIA Predator drone to attack a Wisconsin wedding.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

July 16th, 2012
4:51 pm

Sorry folks, even the staunch righties I know want to see decades of tax returns.

They may be conservative.

They may be Republican.

They ain’t stupid.

They know something is fishy.

Jay

July 16th, 2012
4:51 pm

In 1963 alone, George had total income of $566,000, more than $500,000 of which was capital gains, dividends, interest, etc. So your attempted diversion is groundless.

TaxPayer

July 16th, 2012
4:51 pm

What’s in Box 26 of Romney’s long form 1040. Just kidding. I couldn’t care less about Box 26.

Sean

July 16th, 2012
4:52 pm

The real question here is should people with just trade stocks pay a lower tax rate.

I can see having a lower tax rate if you are “investing” in a company.. but in todays world of stock trading,the only time people are truly investing in a company is when they buy at the initial offering ( or secondary etc ). At these times, the company is actually getting $$ the buyers paid for the company’s shares. The company and then uses this money to help their business out. All other trades are just gambling and the company doesnt get a cut.

Joe Hussein Mama

July 16th, 2012
4:53 pm

Recon — “Jay, this attack isn’t resonating with the voters. The national polls have barely moved and Obama has spent over 100 mil on various attack ad’s since April.”

Okay, then you won’t mind if the Obama camp ‘wastes’ some more money on this line of attack, then, will you? :D

“I found it laughable that some of your guys downstairs are finding false solace in the electoral map at this early date.”

I find it laughable that know-nothing-about-stats-you is trying to make assertions about something you don’t even appear to understand. :D

“The state polls won’t reveal anything significant until September. The Obama campaign is urinating into a strong head wind running these ads with their false allegations and it may backfire severely as the economy is expecting further deterioration.”

Again, so you won’t mind if they keep on with what they’re doing, right? :D

Lucifer

July 16th, 2012
4:54 pm

I can see Romney throwing a tantrum like a spoiled child when he loses this election. All his life he has had things handed to him and has enjoyed the best of everything. But he has his heart set on the presidency. He won’t be happy until he rules over all of us. Sadly for him, he’s headed toward a big disappointment.

josef

July 16th, 2012
4:55 pm

SCOTT

Just a question: if it’s the Georgia redneck who’s being singled out here as the dumbass…are we to conclude that around half the voting population of the United States of America are Georgia rednecks? Get real, Pombo, this is not something specific to Georgia and one socio-economic class of its (or any other state’s) population. You just want to act superior and such terms as “redneck” give you your tag. You sound for all the world like the conservative right with their “those people” slurs.

Erwin's cat

July 16th, 2012
4:55 pm

JHM – Either McCain was more desperate than we’ve been led to believe or else there really is something damaging in the tax returns.

I would find it hard to believe Mitt’s team didn’t anticipate an attack on his wealth.
I’d say McCain was that desperate and swinging for the fences, obviously McCain didn’t pick a VP based on qualifications

Jm (LL) -pass TSPLOST silly people

July 16th, 2012
4:55 pm

“oters get the government they deserve. If Romney gets in, his fat cat friends will greatly benefit. ”

Wrong- a rich man can’t be bought

Aquagirl

July 16th, 2012
4:55 pm

Pelosi is rich from insider trading

Boy, Jay has hit a nerve today. Liar! Capital gains! Invasion of privacy! Nancy Pelosi!

The kitchen sink is next.

Joe Hussein Mama

July 16th, 2012
4:56 pm

K71 — “Why is Romney’s wealth so much of a liberal issue. John Kerry and his wife were, and are, worth over 750M.”

Just so you’re clear on this, John Kerry and his wife file separately and have for years. But SHE released her taxes — even though she wasn’t running for office — in order to ensure that voters had an accurate picture of their finances.

If anything, it looks to me like Teresa Heinz Kerry sports a bigger sack than Willard Mitt Romney does.

zeke

July 16th, 2012
4:57 pm

tell joe six pack who pays 25% on his measley earnings, and mitt pays 14% on his passive income thru cap gains that is fair……why should poor smuck who puts money in savings account and gets it taxed as ordinary income….cap gains tax scheme for wealthy…maybe for initial offerings

how much should romney pay for our country defending his ability to earn 20 million

Recon 0311 2533

July 16th, 2012
4:58 pm

The Obama campaign is in a profuse sweat over their failures to find something that will stick on Romney. Why should Romney give them something to rework into another cheap shot attempt. Better to let them sweat it out and maybe release his tax returns for several years when Obama’s cooked in the polls just before the election. I heard a suggestion that Romney should offer to release his tax returns if Obama will release his University records, which he thus far has refused to do.

Brosephus™

July 16th, 2012
4:58 pm

Total transparency for a Cabinet secretary, but none for the guy who hires and fires him? Do you guys even hear yourselves?

Surely you can’t be serious…

—————————–

Wrong- a rich man can’t be bought

How do you explain Congress and the last few presidents?

They BOTH suck

July 16th, 2012
4:59 pm

“Wrong- a rich man can’t be bought”

BS ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are talking only monetarily than to some degree you have a point, however many a man has been “BOUGHT” without money. Influence and power is very seductive to many people.

Jm (LL) -pass TSPLOST silly people

July 16th, 2012
4:59 pm

So 4 of 11 years George wasn’t earning much in wages

And so we’re supposed to ignore the facts behind the other 7 years? Whatever

N-GA

July 16th, 2012
5:00 pm

Sean – re your 4:52 post

Your argument holds water if the investment is to help the company. However, most stock purchases are “investments” hoping that the investors will benefit. Home ownership has the same result (at least it did before the bubble burst).

People who object to capital gains taxes by saying that the tax has already been paid once when the initial money was earned have an empty argument. We pay taxes repeatedly (year-over-year) all the time. One example: ad valorem tax on a vehicle. We also pay taxes on interest income.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

July 16th, 2012
5:01 pm

Wrong- a rich man can’t be bought

:roll:

What a naif!

Erwin's cat

July 16th, 2012
5:01 pm

Influence and power is very seductive to many people.

I’d have to believe $243M gets you some power and influence…just saying

Joe Hussein Mama

July 16th, 2012
5:01 pm

Recon — “Better to let them sweat it out and maybe release his tax returns for several years when Obama’s cooked in the polls just before the election. I heard a suggestion that Romney should offer to release his tax returns if Obama will release his University records, which he thus far has refused to do.”

You go right ahead and run with that plan, Punkin.

Romney will be back at his Bain office before you know it. :D

Lord Help Us

July 16th, 2012
5:02 pm

The cons are infuriated that the Obama campaign is questioning Mitts finances, and insinuating malfeasance!!

But the irony of years of scurrilous accusations of cronyism, ‘chicago thug tactics,’ ‘america hating,’ death panels, birther accusations, socialist, ‘on the side of the terrorists,’ etc. is lost on them…

Goose/Gander I say…

zeke

July 16th, 2012
5:02 pm

let’s see recon, he got into harvard, graduated passed illionis bar….heck w was just a c student at harvard and you probably thought he was the cats pajamamas and he did more than his fair share to screw up the country…..mccain finished almost at bottom of his class at naval academy and palin barely got out of college

They BOTH suck

July 16th, 2012
5:02 pm

“Rich man can’t be bought”

Yet their are rich men that go to the Golden Dome each session who just so happen to take extravegenat trips from companies and lobbyists. They all claim it is never an influence on their vote, yet there are ZILLIONS of examples of those same people voting exactly the way the company or lobbyist who courted them wanted them to vote.

100%? No, but it happens daily.

So it is safe to say that on the national level, in some form or fashion it is compounded.

Proud to be me

July 16th, 2012
5:02 pm

Jay . . so “your diversion is groundless” . . and so is Obama’s diversion. Publeeze!! The man is wealthy . . . just like Buffet!! Why does it bother liberals so? Why don’t you deal with the real issues? Obama hid alot from the American people and most of which is still hidden!! GET OVER Romney’s wealth!!! It hasn’t bothered you that the “wealthy” who support Obama probably have money sheltered! Yet, Obama is willing to hold both hands out for their money!!! Don’t give me “but, they aren’t running for President!” Obama has done more to demoralize the Presidency than any man before him.

They BOTH suck

July 16th, 2012
5:03 pm

EC

Warren Buffett is a billionaire, he doesn’t have the power as the POTUS

just sayn

Recon 0311 2533

July 16th, 2012
5:04 pm

Joe,

Now I know why you call yourself Mama. Maybe you’re going through menopause.

N-GA

July 16th, 2012
5:04 pm

Adelson bought Newt Gingrich….his money keep turning the wind-up key in Newt’s back.

Ray

July 16th, 2012
5:05 pm

I worked for a banking company in the late 1980s to early 1990s where you could see everyone’s salary on the bank computers when it was paid in each month. The company had about 30-40 banks, and about 500 total employeees. The very top guys in the company made $240,000, while first day on the job tellers made $12,000. So the top guys made 20 times what the lowest level employees made. That just seems quaint by today’s standards, and Mitt Romney’s, where something around 400 or 500 to 1 is the norm. When/why did the people at the very top decide that they were just so exponentially more valuable than everyone else? It’s a head shaker.

Joe Hussein Mama

July 16th, 2012
5:05 pm

Recon — “Joe, Now I know why you call yourself Mama. Maybe you’re going through menopause.”

Oh, just hit me with your purse, Martha. (laughing) :D

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

July 16th, 2012
5:06 pm

Two Romneys? Heck, I’m still trying to figure out the one we got right now. He was for a health care law and now he’s against it. He says he understands our pain but he’s never eat beans & onions for supper in his life. He says he’s just a regular guy but he’s got a elevator in house to bring his car to him. He makes more money in interest in one year than I’ll make in salary in my whole life. He says he’ll create jobs here but he’s shipped hundreds of thousands of American jobs overseas.

Just give me a few weeks to figure this guy out before you throw his Daddy at us. I’m mixed up enough as it is. Have mercy, Bookman!

Have a good night everybody.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

July 16th, 2012
5:06 pm

JAY:

What was the tax rate during our Revolution ?

They BOTH suck

July 16th, 2012
5:06 pm

“RICH man can’t be bought”

Maybe not with money, but he sure can with votes.

See Mitt Romney’s changes in his own stances and own words to pacify the social conservatives.

GAME, SET, MATCH

Next

Aquagirl

July 16th, 2012
5:06 pm

GET OVER Romney’s wealth!!!

Yep…nothin’ like the sound of jangly con nerves.

zeke

July 16th, 2012
5:07 pm

right ray, most folks at top could be replaced just like others in organization…..can you say nardelli

Joe the Plutocrat

July 16th, 2012
5:08 pm

anyone but me ever wonder why Romney wants to be POTUS? who takes a $21.5 million cut in pay? love of country? if he loves his country so much; why does the lion’s share of his income/assets hang out in offshore, tax sheltered accounts? geez, Americans really need to think a bit more critically when it comes to the meaningless excercise of the right to vote.

Thomas

July 16th, 2012
5:08 pm

Jay- Capital losses allowed as deductions for an individual- 3k per year. Capital losses allowed for corporations- $0. Make capital gains rates = to ordinary income rates but also allow unlimited capital losses. Otherwise you are playing a game of heads the gov’t wins, tails the investor loses.

Fair?

Recon 0311 2533

July 16th, 2012
5:08 pm

Wow Zeke you’re sure the man with the facts. A question though how did you learn Bush was a C student?

hiram

July 16th, 2012
5:10 pm

@ lucifer
The rich remain rich, only because the masses allow it. Wealth is conditional – just ask Saddam, Hosni, and in the near future, Bashar.

SwamiDave

July 16th, 2012
5:12 pm

Sean:

Your fiscal & economic understanding is shockingly abysmal (but unfortunately par for the course for most shills and propogandists for liberals).

- Anyone who buys shares after offering is as much an “investor” in a company as the original purchaser. The sale transfers ownerships of that investment (and subsequent gains or losses) the the purchaser who now has MORE stake in the positive / negative outcomes than does the seller.

- As for comparisons of the tax rates, there is already a distinction between “investors” versus “traders” or sellers. With a modicum of research, you can find:

“Short-term capital gains are taxed at the investor’s ordinary income tax rate, and are defined as investments held for a year or less before being sold. Long-term capital gains, which apply to assets held for more than one year, are taxed at a lower rate than short-term gains.”

Profits from short-term gains are ALREADY taxed at the same rate as ordinary income (just as are gambling winnings).

- Finally, even the Capital Gains Tax Rates are “progressive” since the lowest two income brackets for long-term gains only pay a 5% rate versus all other filers who pay 15%. So (yet again) those at higher tax brackets are ALREADY paying higher rates even in the case of capital gains.

Happy to share some facts among your opinion…..

-SD

Aquagirl

July 16th, 2012
5:12 pm

What was the tax rate during our Revolution ?

Oh boy, I can’t wait to hear the latest factoid via forwarded e-mail.

Doggone/GA

July 16th, 2012
5:15 pm

Here’s something to ponder: many years ago now I saw the argument that the “Income Tax” was being illegally assessed against the wages earned for services provided. Interesting thought…that all the working people in the USA are being taxed illegally, because their paychecks are not income, but wages.

zeke

July 16th, 2012
5:15 pm

recon, apology he was c student at yale undergrad….if harvard mba like other mba programs doubt he made less than a b in any course.

to steal line from big chill, just good investigative journalism…..

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0124133/bio

They BOTH suck

July 16th, 2012
5:16 pm

“What was the tax rate during our Revolution ?”

What were the rates during some of this country’s largest economic expansion?

Jm (LL) -pass TSPLOST silly people

July 16th, 2012
5:16 pm

“Maybe not with money, but he sure can with votes.

See Mitt Romney’s changes in his own stances and own words to pacify the social conservatives.

GAME, SET, MATCH

Next”

Dream on

Romney doesn’t need anything

If Romney loses, he’ll actually go home to a better life

He’s a service minded individual that wants to help turn the country around because Obama has failed

carlosgvv

July 16th, 2012
5:16 pm

Lucifer – 4:49 “voters get the Govt. they deserve”

Actually, that’s not true.

In the upcomming election millions will vote for Obama and millions will vote for Romney.

If Romney wins, the Republican electorate will certainly get the “let them eat cake” Govt. they deserve.

Unfortunately, those of us with more sense than to vote for a rich man’s president will get the Govt. we most definitely DON’T deserve.

GT

July 16th, 2012
5:16 pm

Capital gains, is that welfare? I guess not, the poor never receive it. But it is money given away from one American to another and so far they have not declared it a tax, but in the spirit of recent stretches seems to me we could call it welfare. I not even sure it is that large a stretch.

I would be interested in see as Romney’s fortune increases how the poor have made out during this era. Socialism is a equaling of classes, we are all comrades. Did not I read that poverty is at a all time high, as a population, how proud we must be. Not only does he make four or five hundred times more than Buffett’s secretary he spends more on boat fuel than most American salaries.

TaxPayer

July 16th, 2012
5:17 pm

They BOTH suck

July 16th, 2012
5:17 pm

Jm

Ok.

hahahahahahahahahah

:-)

hahahahahahahah

Bet you said the same about Kerry? I didn’t

JamVet

July 16th, 2012
5:18 pm

Who cares that he was a C student?

He was an F- president…

Recon 0311 2533

July 16th, 2012
5:18 pm

zeke, investigative joournalism made easy not good…Bush released his records Obama won’t.

Jay

July 16th, 2012
5:18 pm

It’s also interesting to see conservatives demanding that we ignore Romneys wealth and business record when just a couple of weeks ago they were citing that wealth and financial success as his greatest asset as a candidate.

If that record is relevant, then it’s relevant.

Jm (LL) -pass TSPLOST silly people

July 16th, 2012
5:19 pm

“anyone but me ever wonder why Romney wants to be POTUS? who takes a $21.5 million cut in pay? love of country? if he loves his country so much; why does the lion’s share of his income/assets hang out in offshore, tax sheltered accounts? geez, Americans really need to think a bit more critically when it comes to the meaningless excercise of the right to vote.”

There is this thing called “love of country”

Maybe you should explore it

Tundra Dude

July 16th, 2012
5:21 pm

Why the worry about socialism?

because it’s really, really bad….?

Hardheaded Socialism Makes Canada Richer Than U.S.
By Stephen Marche

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-15/hardheaded-socialism-makes-canada-richer-than-u-s-.html

TaxPayer

July 16th, 2012
5:21 pm

There is this thing called “love of country”

Maybe you should explore it

JM exclaims as he boards his plane for Asian parts unknown.

They BOTH suck

July 16th, 2012
5:21 pm

Jm

You say dream on, yet you ignore Romney’s pacification of social conservatives as if it didn’t happen

Don’t tell me about a Obama flip flop, about a Clinton flip flop

Who is Romney? They guy who governed Mass or the guy who is tap dancing to the “Candy Man” for the social right?

His choice, but he is dancing and you can say what you want, but his staff carries around taps in their pockets so he can change them before each campaign stop The proof is in his actions

They BOTH suck

July 16th, 2012
5:22 pm

Jm

he loves it so much that he took a portion of his money elsewhere

And I will say that for anyone D, R or no political affiliation.

Jm (LL) -pass TSPLOST silly people

July 16th, 2012
5:22 pm

Tbs

I would never have argued Kerry could be bought

I would have argued he was a boob, but not buyable

Instead, I copped out and wrote someone in. I didn’t like either candidate (and GA was not a close race, W was going to win no matter what). But I don’t write in anymore.

zeke

July 16th, 2012
5:24 pm

recon, wish obama would release his records, but sort of moot point now. he has adult life and politics for last 20 years on which to be judged. same for romney; however, tax returns have generally been fair game to see who is buying you or how you are influenced.

JamVet

July 16th, 2012
5:24 pm

I would be interested in see as Romney’s fortune increases how the poor have made out during this era.

The current minimum wage is worth less today than it was in 1968. (!!!!!)

But if you talk with these Master of Misinformed Cons, if you raise it at all, it spells economic doom. At least zillions of jobs will be lost.

Talk about brain dead with a capital B…

TaxPayer

July 16th, 2012
5:24 pm

Obama released his records, Mitt won’t.

j nes

July 16th, 2012
5:24 pm

The following piece from politicdiscourse.com does a good job of contrasting two other Romneys: Mitt Romney the CEO and Mitt Romney the Governor.

http://politicdiscourse.com/2012/07/16/america-is-not-a-business/