Romney puts that ’sleeping giant’ back to sleep
The Republican response to last week’s Supreme Court decision was something to see. Upon losing the constitutional argument, they refocused their outrage immediately, this time targeting the court’s ruling that the enforcement mechanism behind the health-insurance mandate is a tax.
The synchronicity and speed of the shift were impressive to say the least. Within an hour or two of the ruling, the entire conservative movement had taken up the tax howl, and the raised voices chanting in unison instilled a confidence among many on the right that the ruling had “awakened a sleeping giant.”
Mitt Romney, however, wants to tuck that giant back into bed and feed him three Ambien washed down with a glass of nice, warm milk.
From National Journal, under the headline “Romney Campaign Declaring Cease Fire on Health Care”:
“In the aftermath of the Supreme Court health care ruling, the early conventional wisdom was that an unfavorable health care ruling at the court would be good for Republicans politically, even as it was a serious policy setback for conservatives. But that’s not shaping up to be the case.
Mitt Romney, after giving a brief statement decrying the decision, has been virtually silent on criticizing the health care law. He’s been on vacation and his campaign has been giving off clear signals that it doesn’t want to make health care a major part of the election.
His senior adviser, Eric Fehrnstrom, went on MSNBC Monday and ended up agreeing with the Obama campaign’s spin that, even though the Supreme Court declared the individual mandate a tax, it really still is a penalty. Significantly, his campaign appears to want to take the most potent argument against the president on the health care subject off the table, likely out of fear the Romney himself is vulnerable when it comes to his health care record. He, after all, supported a mandate as governor of Massachusetts, and doesn’t want that to be considered a tax, either.”
RIck Santorum isn’t right about a lot of things, but he was right about this one. He predicted that Romney’s role as a stepfather to ObamaCare would make it impossible for him to effectively attack the incumbent on the issue, and that is exactly what has happened.
The author of the National Journal piece, Josh Kraushaar, goes on to note that the Romney campaign’s cautious approach toward ObamaCare appears to be part of a larger strategy that he likens to a form of prevent defense:
“He’s avoided criticizing the administration’s handling of the botched Fast and Furious operation, even as it threatens to become a serious vulnerability for the president. He’s been silent in responding to Obama’s immigration executive order, not wanting to offend receptive Hispanics or appear like a flip-flopper. He appears more likely to tap a safe, bland running mate like Ohio Sen. Rob Portman or former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty who won’t do him any harm but won’t benefit him much either. If the economy continues to sputter, that safe strategy might be enough. If not, his options are limited.”
I’d also note that teams typically employ a prevent defense when they’re protecting a lead, not when they’re behind. And as the polling compilation from RealClearPolitics demonstrates, that’s exactly where Romney finds himself. His deficit isn’t large, but it’s been pretty consistent.
– Jay Bookman
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310 comments Add your comment
King of Everything
July 3rd, 2012
9:01 am
The best thing for Republicans is Obama. He keeps implementing policies that are Conservative ideas in the hope that Republicans will support them All of a sudden those same conservative ideas are unconstitutional?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
July 3rd, 2012
9:03 am
Well so much for that “Roberts just gave this election to Romney” meme……
Brosephus™
July 3rd, 2012
9:06 am
If this election were to resemble cartoons, the American people would be selecting between two products from the same Acme company that Wile E. Coyote orders from.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
July 3rd, 2012
9:07 am
JAY,
I submit that Healthcare pales in comparision to the economy as the priority on everyone’s mind….spending a Trillion here and a Trillion there clearly has not helped one bit….Your idol will get blasted far beyond this new tax and the 30-40% premium increases those of us currently insured will endure….I’m not a Romney fan but President Trillions has done nothing except give money away (aside from sitting in the captains chair for the ceremonious killing of OBL) and enhance entitlements to his core voting base…
Jay
July 3rd, 2012
9:07 am
I should also note a newly released WaPo/ABC poll, which reports:
“Just 30 percent in the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll have a favorable opinion of Romney’s approach to health care, while 47 percent see it negatively, putting him underwater on the issue by a 17-point margin. Twenty-three percent are undecided, perhaps marking a lack of specifics by Romney on his plans – but giving him an opportunity to persuade.
The public at the same time divides by 45-48 percent, favorable-unfavorable, in views of Obama’s plans for the health care system. On one hand that’s clearly a weak score; on the other, it’s 15 percentage points better than Romney’s on the positive side, while essentially identical on the negative .”
Adam
July 3rd, 2012
9:07 am
LOL love the headline
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
July 3rd, 2012
9:10 am
I agree with Roberts decision and think its very clever…I think his message is the SCOTUS clarifies constitutional intent not the efficacy of any particular law. He attempts to respect Congress (he is the only one) ability to legislate…it’s not his job to weed out crappy bills…..I like the way he handled it and enjoy the wigging out offered by the GOP wingnuts.
The decision to call it a tax will help the GOP…..especially how it will be misrepresented in ads..
Adam
July 3rd, 2012
9:10 am
I can’t wait for Rasmussen’s poll on Obamacare to be released this Monday…
Not even the other polls on the subject have been updated yet: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html
Latest poll date is June 26th. Ruling was June 28th. Let’s see what happens…. Here’s a hint:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/01/obamacare-supreme-court-ruling_n_1641560.html
Lord Help Us
July 3rd, 2012
9:10 am
IMO, Romney knows this issue is a loser in long-term. His approach to this appears calculated to allow it to blow over.
Between this and the news that Roberts may have switched his vote on ACA, wingnut heads seem to be exploding…again…
larry
July 3rd, 2012
9:11 am
It seems like Romney is running his campaign on the ” but i ain’t Obama” line.
Fly-On-The-Wall
July 3rd, 2012
9:11 am
Their dislike of Obama will be the driving force for Republicans. The question will be can they pull more than their base along? Can they pull enough votes beyone their base to win?
Paul
July 3rd, 2012
9:12 am
There are these bright, shining moments when Romney or one of his senior advisors says something that shows thought, consideration, nuance and an understanding of the issue.
Then, POW!, within an hour or two the campaign’s ‘walking it back.’
He’s like the guy who brings a geology book to a creationism rally. The information may be valid, but the audience sure doesn’t want to hear it.
carlosgvv
July 3rd, 2012
9:12 am
Romney may keep quiet on this but you can bet that the Tea Party Republicans won’t. They will be loud and shrill in denouncing this TAX TAX TAX and, if this contrast hurts Romney in any way, I don’t think they’ll care. I get the feeling that, to the crazed Tea Party politicians, this non-Christian cultist Romney is only slightly more acceptable than that black African Marxist Socialist America hating Obama.
Adam
July 3rd, 2012
9:12 am
Stevie Ray: The decision to call it a tax will help the GOP…..especially how it will be misrepresented in ads..
Though correct that it helps the GOP, it doesn’t help them AS MUCH as the meme that it was unconstitutional. Which actually means that this is a net loss to them. ESPECIALLY since they spent 3 years with a propaganda machine that tied the entire law to his NAME. Now that it’s been upheld, h looks stronger than he did before. And sure, that pisses off a lot of conservatives, but those guys were already going to come out in force and vote against him anyway.
Welcome to the Occupation
July 3rd, 2012
9:12 am
Simply put, Romney does not control the Republican agenda; it controls him.
He may personally prefer that the issue slowly dies down, but the GOP governors and movement lieutenants like Jim DeMint will move the fight to the next stage. It may be a source of embarrassment for Romney, but he can’t ignore it entirely and may have to find subtle ways to pay lip service to the base’s position on it. The issue may in this way turn out to be a little like the abortion issue has been, one that top level candidates may not prefer to talk about in a general campaign but still are required to address in the manner of a litmus test.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
July 3rd, 2012
9:13 am
JAY,
Most of the public doesn’t want this bill…you can spin it with all the silly polls you like but that fact will not change…..I’ve had several clients, employing over tens of thousands, request actuarial evaluations of the projected increases in current plans versus paying the tax plus a small stipend thus allowing employees to fend for themselves….industry peers follow peers so if one follows this route, peers will likely follow as well…
King of Everything
July 3rd, 2012
9:13 am
So, the mandate is unconstitutional nationally, but not for the people of MA?
Slip
July 3rd, 2012
9:13 am
It’s doesn’t matter what critics or the President called the mandate and they are not hypocrites if they didn’t call it a tax. Republicans and democrats alike call revenue items “fees” all the time. In a court they’d be characterized as a tax.
Courts often look to the nature of a thing and don’t blindly accept labels. In divorce law, for tax advantages, people often describe asset transfers as “alimony” and later, when there is a court resolved disagreement, courts sometimes interpret what was called “alimony” as a “property division” using a framework to examine the nature of the item. Property division transfers usually result in different tax consequences than alimony. The people may still prefer to call it alimony, but, in legal terms, it’s not. The name is irrelevant.
I always suspected the mandate would be interpreted as a tax because of its nature. The tax is a good one if you support the policy that people should contribute to the health care pool in a way that is fair. The critics should stop frothing and avoid letting the spin machines manipulate their thoughts. It’s a tax – one dreamed up by Republicans (once it had the Heritage Foundation stamp of approval), adopted by Republicans (in MA) and implemented by Congress. It
ty webb
July 3rd, 2012
9:14 am
Romney needs to stay on the economy….”healthcare” will be an issue only in congressional races.
Paul
July 3rd, 2012
9:14 am
Stevie Ray
“.spending a Trillion here and a Trillion there clearly has not helped one bit”
Okay, I just gotta ask.
Where has Pres Obama spent ‘a trillion here and a trillion there” to help the economy?
And, do your numbers include his tax cuts?
larry
July 3rd, 2012
9:14 am
Did you see where Romney is going to the middle east this summer ?
I guess trying to get his foreign policy feet wet. But if he continues to surround himself with former
Bush adminstration foreign policy officials , that will not work out well either .
Brosephus™
July 3rd, 2012
9:15 am
Could this be part of the reason that Romney’s taking a pause on health care?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/07/03/the-affordable-care-acts-giveaway-to-stingy-red-states/
Over the coming weeks and months, there’s going to be a new event in the Republican Party’s ongoing “No, I’m the most anti-Obamacare!” contest: refusing to participate in the law’s proposed Medicaid expansion. So far, the governors of Florida, South Carolina and Louisiana have already promised to do exactly that.
Ignore them. The deal the federal government is offering states on Medicaid is too good to refuse. And that’s particularly true for the red states. If Mitt Romney loses the election and Republicans lose their chance to repeal the Affordable Care Act, they’re going to end up participating in the law. They can’t afford not to.
Medicaid is jointly administered between states and the federal government, and the states are given considerable leeway to set eligibility rules. Texas covers only working adults up to 26 percent of the poverty line. The poverty line for an individual is $11,170. So, you could be a single person making $3,000 a year and you’re still not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid in Texas. That’s part of the reason Texas has the highest uninsured rate in the nation.
Massachusetts, by contrast, covers working adults up to 133 percent of the poverty line — partly due to a former governor whose name rhymes with Schmitt Schmomney. It’s a big reason it has the lowest uninsured rate in the nation.
Things that make you say hmmmmmmm…….
GW
July 3rd, 2012
9:15 am
PUBLIC OPINION – President Obama Holds Significant Lead Over Romney in Popular Vote – Lead Holds Despite Hoopla Over Supreme Court Health Care Decision: http://blog.locustfork.net/2012/07/president-obama-holds-significant-lead-over-romney-in-popular-vote/
rightwing troll
July 3rd, 2012
9:15 am
As I previously opined… the HC ruling and the ensuing outbreak of exploding heads and pained screeching fits of hyperbole did NOTHING to move undecideds or independents. If anything it moved them away from the party of feigned poutrage and Mittens, much like Newt’s tantrum and subsequent closing of the government as a result…
Paul
July 3rd, 2012
9:16 am
Stevie Ray 9:10
Yup. And Republicans are now calling Roberts an ‘activist.’
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
July 3rd, 2012
9:17 am
ADAM,
Agreed. The problem for President Trillions is that his record, including this ruling, are perhaps the greatest fodder for effective ad campaign for GOP using record amounts of cash since Jimmy Carters era. The amounts of cash he has thrown at problems in hopes of a solution are the bain of all taxpayers…all aspects of his political agenda can be effectively attacked even by the most mediocre of staffers..
JohnnyReb
July 3rd, 2012
9:17 am
First the Etch-A-Sketch, now the healtcare tax. It was not Romney who stated those, but his staff/advisers. Nonetheless disappointing.
There is no doubt Romeny has to come out with proposed plans/policies and a large voice to counteract Obama. It’s not good enough to state on day one as president he will stop Obamacare. He has to voice the replacement plan.
It’s not OK for Romney to sit idolly by and not protest the lies of the Obama attack on Romney exporting jobs overseas.
Romney has to become somewhat of an attack dog. He’s not running against Jimmy Carter who although totally ineffective is an honest and kind person. No, he’s running against the Chicago machine who lie as much as tell the truth.
As to Romney’s running mate, if he has a brain in his head it will be Rubio or Jindal.
Paul
July 3rd, 2012
9:18 am
I ought to finish that 9:12
“He’s like the guy who brings a geology book to a creationism rally. The information may be valid, but the audience sure doesn’t want to hear it. So he puts the book in his backpack because he wants to be popular.”
Mighty Righty
July 3rd, 2012
9:18 am
The Democrats don’t want to talk about Health Care, they don’t want to talk about the Economy, they don’t want to talk about, Fast and Furious, they don’t want to talk about the Deficit, they don’t want to talk about the Green program failures, they don’t wan to talk about the Employment numbers, they don’t want to talk about GDP growth. Doesn’t leave much. They brag about the number of people on food stamps, on unemploymnet compensation and welefare and in fact are running ads to recruit more people on these roles. What a president. Greatest achievement is government give aways like that is something that is hard to do and he takes pride in this singular accomplishment.
Joe Hussein Mama
July 3rd, 2012
9:20 am
The simian screeching in the conservative blogosphere didn’t start to let up until today. Up until sometime overnight, the conservative chant about Roberts has been IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH. Then someone (and I’m not convinced it wasn’t a liberal troll like me
) pointed out that if Roberts *were* to be impeached and removed from office, that just means that President Obama would get another pick to place on the Supreme Court.
There are a few True Believers out there who shouted that O’Connell, Boehner and Cantor should get to pick Roberts’ replacement (apparently some weird political belief that only a conservative can replace a conservative on the court), but most of the hoots and clicks died down after that.
There is a LOT of discontent and upset on the right over this, and it’s not going away any time soon. However, it places Romney in a VERY difficult position with respect to his base. The whole “Obanmeycare” canard is growing legs and wings, and Romney’s now in a position of having to defend the same position he has attacked President Obama for.
You know, Rick Santorum might just have been right when he said that Romney was the worst possible Republican to challenge the President this year. Then again, too effing bad.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
July 3rd, 2012
9:21 am
Paul,
Yes the GOP sound just like the DEMS did while anticipating a striking down of the mandate….both parties carry on like children…arguments never change just rotate between sides..
President Trillions spent roughly a trillion on failed stimulus …the cost of the tax cuts clearly didn’t provide a return, and the balance was largely wasted on pet projects for cronies and bundlers as we have come to expect for both sides….CBO current estimates of Obamacare, which as you will recall was cost neutral at the start, is upwards of a trillion as well…do we ever see these projections come down?
kayaker 71
July 3rd, 2012
9:21 am
Bookman, 9:47,
Since you are so fond of polls…… Rasmussen today:
Romney 46% Bozo 44%
52% favor the repeal of Bozocare
Only 30% feel that they are better off than 4 yrs ago
44% of the electorate strongly disapprove of Bozo
Only 25% strong approve……. approval index of minus 19
And the real clincher that will allow Romney to win in November…… 60% of the electorate believes that border security is a top priority. And Bozo could care less. Sometime, this has to catch up with him.
Jerome Horwitz
July 3rd, 2012
9:22 am
Bro’ – It means the person mentioned was a good govenor and it’s a shame he’s running away from his accomplishments and pandering to the fools in his party. And I’m glad I’m not a poor person in Texas. How does their buffoon govenor get so much attention? I’d be ashamed to show my face.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
July 3rd, 2012
9:22 am
MMMM…..
May President Obama comes out in favor of Marriage Equality.
June President Obama comes out for “mini” dream act
June – July President Obama’s signature healthcare law upheld.
He’s sure on a roll.
Wonder what surprise he has in mind for October?
Joe Hussein Mama
July 3rd, 2012
9:22 am
Stevie Ray — “Most of the public doesn’t want this bill…”
Actually, they do.
If you poll on the individual provisions in the bill, not a single one of them polls less than 60% approval.
The only way you get a majority against it is by polling against “Obamacare” as a whole. However, when people actually find out what’s IN the bill, they like it plenty.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
July 3rd, 2012
9:23 am
Mighty Righty,
Nailed it….regardless of the actual facts (which we will never know) relative to ultimate cost of failed record spending, the optics and the GOP’s ability to spin same suffer no shortage of material.
rightwing troll
July 3rd, 2012
9:24 am
“Their dislike of Obama will be the driving force for Republicans. The question will be can they pull more than their base along? Can they pull enough votes beyone their base to win?”
After 3 years of unprecedented hatred and unmitigated rage directed at him, he still holds a lead. What could possibly happen in the next 4 months to swing the tide? These folks are dialed in, and locked and loaded (so to speak, some of them literally after last week’s outburst…). There’s been no doubt from day one that a certain segment of folks out there will NOT vote for Obama, even if Jesus were to reappear and endorse the man, they’d turn on him as well…
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
July 3rd, 2012
9:25 am
JOE,
Who doesn’t want free stuff? But the overall bill is what a majority of folks remain against….that’s what counts as opposed to all the free stuff….once they see impact on current costs and the shortage of healthcare service supply, the balance will tilt even further toward the nay’s….
Joe the Plutocrat
July 3rd, 2012
9:26 am
yep, Romney should leave sleeping dogs be. this will allow him to energize “the base” by attacking Obama on abortion rights (he was for it until he was against it). what I find both depressing and amusing about the race is; the GOP/right keep saying Obama is vulnerable in terms of foreign policy; yet he’s been pretty good at executing (literally) the major FP initiative of the 21st century; the global war on terrorism. unfortunately; Obama’s vulnerability lies in the disappointment of HIS base (the paleo-leftists); but poor Willard can’t seem to muster any focus; articulate a cogent, rational foreign policy of his own. his “team” is laden with neo-con wags from the Bush-Cheney camp/ to wit; he is “attacking” Obama for being better at being Bush (killing bad guys) than Bush. just like healthcare; Romney is going to attack Obama for being better at being Romney? tough nut to crack.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
July 3rd, 2012
9:26 am
A recent study by the Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts Foundation found that between 2006 and 2010, the use of emergency rooms for non-emergency reasons fell nearly 4 percent. That was a key goal of the law, since using emergency rooms for routine care is far more expensive than visiting a doctor.
State health officials also point to what they say are increases in mammograms, colon cancer screenings and prenatal care visits and a 150,000-person reduction in the number of smokers after the state expanded coverage for smoking cessation programs.
“Since Gov. Romney signed health care reform here in Massachusetts, more private companies are offering health care to their employees, fewer people are getting primary care in an expensive emergency room setting, and hundreds of thousands of our friends and neighbors have access to care,” said Gov. Deval Patrick, a Democrat and co-chairman of Obama’s re-election committee.
Another reason the law remains popular may be that so many Massachusetts residents receive insurance through work and have been largely untouched by its penalties. The Blue Cross Blue Shield study found 68 percent of non-elderly adults received coverage through their employers in 2010, up from about 64 percent in 2006.
The study also found no evidence to support one fear lawmakers had when they approved the law – that employers or workers might drop coverage because of the availability of public coverage.
Another indication of the law’s acceptance in Massachusetts is the reduction in the number of those assessed a tax penalty for failing to have insurance despite being able to afford it. In 2010, 44,000 Massachusetts tax filers were assessed the penalty under the “individual mandate.” That’s a drop from the 67,000 people required to pay the penalty in 2007, the first year it was assessed.
Hmmmm…. of course the objective “experience” and “factiness” of our conned may be truthier.
Mighty Righty
July 3rd, 2012
9:26 am
I saw an Obama TV ad this morning where the teleprompter president was claiming Romney would give tax breaks to businesses that take jobs overseas, and other such nonsense. The problem with this lie is that the only person I know of who could have taken those tax breaks away is Barack Obama. Maybe, just maybe, Obama doesn’t know he is the president of the United States. I know his policies demonstrate he is out of touch with reality, but really!
rightwing troll
July 3rd, 2012
9:28 am
“Since you are so fond of polls…… Rasmussen today:
Romney 46% Bozo 44%
52% favor the repeal of Bozocare
Only 30% feel that they are better off than 4 yrs ago
44% of the electorate strongly disapprove of Bozo
Only 25% strong approve……. approval index of minus 19
And the real clincher that will allow Romney to win in November…… 60% of the electorate believes that border security is a top priority. And Bozo could care less. Sometime, this has to catch up with him.”
Which Klan rally was this poll taken at?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
July 3rd, 2012
9:28 am
JOE,
There are much better, proven means to provide for pre-existing conditions and coverage for those up to 26 on parents policies. The latter will in many cases, be further incentive for college graduates to be a burden on parents like a gift that keeps giving…of course this will also increase costs but not as materially as the subsidies for pool pricing and pre-existing conditions….the latter of which I support but know there are much more cost effective means to accomodate.
Adam
July 3rd, 2012
9:28 am
kayaker. Those are not Rasmussen “today.”
Joe Hussein Mama
July 3rd, 2012
9:29 am
Stevie Ray — “Who doesn’t want free stuff?”
Who said it was all free? Not me and not the President.
“But the overall bill is what a majority of folks remain against…”
Until they actually learn what’s in the bill.
“.that’s what counts as opposed to all the free stuff….once they see impact on current costs and the shortage of healthcare service supply, the balance will tilt even further toward the nay’s….”
I disagree with you on all of the above. Besides, if the GOP was so worried about costs, then why did they explicitly prohibit the government from negotiating pharmaceutical prices in the Medicare Part D plan? And as far as shortages of healthcare go, assuming it even happens, that’d be the fault of HMOs, not the government.
If Blue Cross, Kaiser and United can’t handle the crush of patients, then they need to hire some more effing doctors, now don’t they?
kayaker 71
July 3rd, 2012
9:30 am
troll, 9:24,
And there are a certain number of voters who would blindly vote for Bozo no matter what he does. He could be a registered sex offender and the Congressional Black Caucus would say that he is just misunderstood. Blind loyalty on either side is not a healthy aspect of any election.
Joe Hussein Mama
July 3rd, 2012
9:30 am
S. Ray — “There are much better, proven means to provide for pre-existing conditions and coverage for those up to 26 on parents policies.”
Then trot them on out, Cowboy. Stop crowing about how great they are and SHOW US.
The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers
July 3rd, 2012
9:31 am
I’m sure after the Dictator gets re-elected, the details will come out as to how much the monthly premiums will cost the middle class for paying for the unemployed’s healthcare. By the end of his second term Obamacare will already be running in deficits just like every other entitlement program. Pat yourself on the back proggies.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
July 3rd, 2012
9:31 am
KEEP,
Those attributes in one state will not translate across the board. Remember, that law only applies to MA employers and employees and not the masses of multi-state employers etcetera….This crap bill will result in the polar opposite of “Affordable” care except for those already getting a ton for free stuff which keeps them in the unfortunate position they are in as opposed to a leg up….
kayaker 71
July 3rd, 2012
9:32 am
All of you Rasmussen haters out there might remember that he called the election at 53% Bozo and 46% McCain. Pretty close. And yes, Adam, that is today.
Adam
July 3rd, 2012
9:32 am
JHM: Until they actually learn what’s in the bill.
Actually, until they learn what’s in it besides the “you have to pay for it” part.
That’s the only part a majority oppose. And it seems they want to take the whole bill down because “Hey, all that stuff is good, but if I have to actually PAY for allt hat? No thanks.”
Dumba$$es….
Tom Middleton
July 3rd, 2012
9:32 am
OK, that plus the documented 21 lies Mitt told last week kind of makes it look like he thinks he’s on thin ice, doesn’t it? I mean, wouldn’t he always tell the truth if there’s anyway he could, speaking of being cautious? Mitt? Eric? Anybody over there? Hello?
http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/29/12483552-chronicling-mitts-mendacity-vol-xxiv?lite
East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)
July 3rd, 2012
9:33 am
National polls are not what will decide the outcome in November. The electoral college is what matters and the 270 delegates. Statewide voting history and statewide polling projects Obama currently at 247 delegates. Romney has to practically sweep the swing states to have a chance. Considering his Latino problem in Florida and auto worker problem in Ohio, it will not be necessary to stay up for the pacific time zone results to know who won.
Welcome to the Occupation
July 3rd, 2012
9:33 am
Who doesn’t want free stuff?
Could be the motto for lots of Wall St. bankers and our predatory, parasitic corporate manager class!
But the overall bill is what a majority of folks remain against…
Lie. Absolute BS and you know it. The elimination of discrimination against pre-existing conditions – the linchpin that allows the parasitic profiteers of the private health provider industry to line their pockets – is wildly popular and is the TRUE heart of the plan .The way chosen to go about it was of course a boondoggle — and that’s because it’s essentially a conservative idea, i.e. friendly to the private health industry.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
July 3rd, 2012
9:33 am
“teleprompter” — oh boy, I am on my way to an early holiday bingo win! Yippee…. oh please someone bring up Kenya-born.
larry
July 3rd, 2012
9:34 am
Im trying to figure out how Obama is spending all this money when the country hasnt had a budget in three years . Just continuing resolutions passed by Congress. Actually he has cut spending , thanks to the debt ceiling fiasco and other such dramas created by the Repubs.
But’s its what being cut that is hurting the worse. Ask the firefighters in the west about budgets being cut. And those aren’t state funded cuts, those are federal funds. Funds that Repubs wanted cut in the deal.
Joe Hussein Mama
July 3rd, 2012
9:34 am
K71 — “And there are a certain number of voters who would blindly vote for Bozo no matter what he does. He could be a registered sex offender and the Congressional Black Caucus would say that he is just misunderstood. Blind loyalty on either side is not a healthy aspect of any election.”
Not quite, K71.
Given what the GOP is offering for an alternative, there’s no reason NOT to vote for Obama.
We get it, we know you think the President sucks. And if that’s your only reason to vote against him, knock yourself out. But man up and recognize that the argument works both ways — and that includes AGAINST Romney.
Don’t diss us for using the exact same decision method that you yourself used.
Doggone/GA
July 3rd, 2012
9:35 am
“Im trying to figure out how Obama is spending all this money when the country hasnt had a budget in three years”
Easy. Budgets have nothing to do with spending.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
July 3rd, 2012
9:35 am
JOE,
Sure. Residual market mechanisms not unlike the assigned risk pool for poor automobile risks is a proven method to accomodate below par risks. It could also, in conjuction with some prior carrier obligations and/or state premium tax, address and fund the pre-existing condition exposure.
The only winners in this deal are insurers, large hospital operators and those already accepting entitlements…President Spineless and his liberal legislaters caved to an approach that will reward the insurers with another 30 million insured with guaranteed payments. The cost of which is offset by huge premium increases from other, cleaner risks…
Adam
July 3rd, 2012
9:36 am
kayaker: Many of the poll numbers you cite are NOT, in fact, recently taken results. Many are from before the SCOTUS decision
Joe the Plutocrat
July 3rd, 2012
9:36 am
is it me? call it a tax, call it a mandate, call it a penalty, call it a fee; if it is paid; IT’S NOT FREE STUFF. same with Medicaid; if taxpaying Americans (inviduals and businesses)fund the system via payroll deductions; IT IS NOT FREE STUFF. remember children, CONGRESS hold the power of the purse; it CONGRESS cannot manage a program, perhaps we need a new CONGRESS. the problem is CONGRESS’s habit of “offering” stuff that really isn’t the property of CONGRESS.
They BOTH suck
July 3rd, 2012
9:37 am
kayaker
I hope you are aware that a percentage of those that wanted Obamacare repealed do so because they think the law didn’t go far enough. “Devil is in the details”. Can’t just read the headlines. Have to read the various components that make up the number.
Do you think that there will be many of those who fit into the “it didn’t go far enough” category will be voting for Romney?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
July 3rd, 2012
9:37 am
Yes, Stevie….. I am sure you are in possession of “factiness” information that will show the changes in results and you have sent that info on so that as the law gets tweaked, these horrendous outcomes can be avoided. Why don’t you create a website and provide a link and become a great prophet and then you can make millions off your “I told you so” book.
Joe Hussein Mama
July 3rd, 2012
9:37 am
K71 — “All of you Rasmussen haters out there might remember that he called the election at 53% Bozo and 46% McCain. Pretty close.”
And he was 40% OFF in the 2010 Hawaii Senate race — one of the most INCORRECT political polls ever performed by a supposedly ‘professional’ polling firm.
Brosephus™
July 3rd, 2012
9:38 am
Jerome
That’s the stuff that nobody’s looking at. Anybody who would be positively affected by this and still chooses to vote for the person who has said that it’s his duty to repeal that law deserve exactly what they get in life. It’s hard to feel sorry for someone who shoots themselves in the foot over and over. On the other hand, if the “Repeal and Replace” party actually had something worthwhile in mind for replacement, then it’s simply a judgement call as to who to vote for. As it stands now, “replace” is nothing but hollow words.
—————————–
Blind loyalty on either side is not a healthy aspect of any election.
And when you decide to rant about that blind loyalty on BOTH sides, you might get taken seriously. As long as you continue with your crap focused only on the melanin content of one’s skin, you’ll continue to be ignored.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
July 3rd, 2012
9:38 am
WELCOME,
I agree that Trotsky nor Lenin would allow for the evil doings of what you label “Wall Street parasites”….as for the support for this bill, it is well documented with details provided by previous posts, that the majority of us don’t and never wanted this crap bill….
They BOTH suck
July 3rd, 2012
9:38 am
Kayaker
Since Rasmussen is your man. Did you see him on Fox last week? I did and he stated that for Romney to win he MUST win FL, OH and VA.
Mighty Righty
July 3rd, 2012
9:39 am
The left remains delusional. True there are many questions about Romney that need to be answered. Obama on the other hand has been exposed for what he really is and a conistent majority don’t approve of him. No poll shows him getting even 50% of the vote. He will not win with less than fifty percent of the vote. He has fired his best shots. He has no bullets left in his gun. This election will be held in November, not today. Jobs, and the economy will decide this election. He will have to do much better than lie about his achievements to be reelected.
Joe Hussein Mama
July 3rd, 2012
9:39 am
S. Ray — “The only winners in this deal are insurers, large hospital operators and those already accepting entitlements…President Spineless and his liberal legislaters caved to an approach that will reward the insurers with another 30 million insured with guaranteed payments. The cost of which is offset by huge premium increases from other, cleaner risks…”
You DO realize this is the crux of most of the liberal complaints against the bill, don’t you?
That said, we’re not throwing it over just for that.
Oscar
July 3rd, 2012
9:40 am
Smart move by Romeny. A fight over hearlth care will not do him any good. It’s a battle he can only lose.
It’s still the economy. His best tactic is to stick to that, win or lose.
Adam
July 3rd, 2012
9:40 am
kayaker: WAIT you are right about one thing… the results are in since the court ruling!
52% favor repeal. Down from 54% the previous poll. Trending downward.
I suppose it could remain steady at that number, roughly. But what does that say? It just means that people are basically unchanged in their views, SCOTUS be damned! It certainly is no “sleeping giant” though.
Brosephus™
July 3rd, 2012
9:40 am
Easy. Budgets have nothing to do with spending.
Not to forget that ALL the money that Obama is spending is the same amount that the GOP agrees to give him to spend.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
July 3rd, 2012
9:41 am
KEEP,
And how exactly will the bill be “tweeked”? Increasing taxes and more deficit spending are President No-Leaderships modus operandi….what other “tweeks” do you u suggest…
You can’t throw money at every problem and expect it to vanish…
larry
July 3rd, 2012
9:41 am
I dont think Clinton got 50% of the vote the second time he won, did he?
They BOTH suck
July 3rd, 2012
9:41 am
JHM
Rasmussen is probably the only major pollster that shows Romney leading the poplar vote at this time. So excuse Kayaker if there might be just a little bit of bias in who he is citing at this time.
Kayaker’s new motto:
“KEEP HOPE ALIVE”
St Simons - we're on Island time, mon
July 3rd, 2012
9:41 am
He knows the health care lies only appeal to the low, low information
voter, right down there with the watermelon patch emails. He’s trying
to keep Biff & Muffeh the blue-bloods ‘on the reservation’
(see, cons I turned your dog-whistle around on you heheh)
the same low information voters that will hate this news –
Higgs boson Particle Found. Checkmate, talibangelical theocons.
to paraphrase ‘Airplane’ – looks like u picked a bad century to be a con
East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)
July 3rd, 2012
9:42 am
“The left remains delusional”
***********************
ROTFLMFAO
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
July 3rd, 2012
9:42 am
JOE,
Which liberals were so guilt ridden by the favor granted insurers (not to mention campaign cash in exchange) that they didn’t vote for the law?
Paul
July 3rd, 2012
9:43 am
Stevie Ray 9:21
Thanks. About all I could think of in response to ’spending trillions and trillions’ to help the economy was the stim package. And that was well under a trillion and about a third of it was tax cuts.
Joe Hussein Mama
“If you poll on the individual provisions in the bill, not a single one of them polls less than 60% approval.”
So much depends on what respondents know and how the question is asked.
“Do you favor the mandate?” (and if the person doesn’t know what ‘the mandate’ is…)
“Do you favor the mandate forcing people to buy health insurance?” or “Do you favor giving people the choice to buy their own health insurance or not buying it and letting you pay for their health care?”
But regardless, the bottom line is, individual provisions are very popular. So, Republicans, what are you going to replace the popular stuff with?
Adam
July 3rd, 2012
9:43 am
You know, it’s hard to take a polling firm seriously when they ask polls that generate this headline:
“Only 43% Now Believe America Is The Last Best Hope of Mankind”
Brosephus™
July 3rd, 2012
9:43 am
The left remains delusional.
And if there’s anybody on this blog who should recognize and diagnose delusionalism, that would be you…
Mighty Righty
July 3rd, 2012
9:43 am
Joe Hussein Mama
July 3rd, 2012
9:37 am
And he was 40% OFF in the 2010 Hawaii Senate race — one of the most INCORRECT political polls ever performed by a supposedly ‘professional’ polling firm
But he was dead on the Republicnas taking control of the house in 2010.
East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)
July 3rd, 2012
9:43 am
“Easy. Budgets have nothing to do with spending”
************************************
That is how W financed 2 wars while cutting taxes at the same time.
Steve
July 3rd, 2012
9:43 am
Obama clearly wins the 2012 election via the path we are on now IF Europe doesn’t tank between now and November and drag us down with her. That could happen. Then the public will blame Obama and vote in Richy Rich Romney.
Oscar
July 3rd, 2012
9:44 am
Stevie Ray..- The President had to take the best deal he could get. And the bill got rid of pre-existing conditions clauses, life=time caps, people losing insurance when they got sick, and let children stay on until age 26.
Those items ae immensly favored by the American public. A big step forward, enen with the defects you mentioned.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
July 3rd, 2012
9:45 am
Stevie, I’ll be sure to share our secret plans with you as soon as you share Mitt’s about “replacing”.
The ACA is a start and not an endpoint. Eventually we’ll get to universal health care with single payor and take the burden off of employers and the risk of losing health care with loss of employment off of employees. Starting with the Republican counter to Hillarycare is just a first step on the journey to fixing the system.
Two Riders Were Approaching
July 3rd, 2012
9:46 am
Hey, how come “the largest tax increase in history” argument is no longer being used? I saw it on Fox 47 times yesterday. Michelle Bachmann herself was leading the charge. Maybe someone at Fox did the math? That just doesn’t seem right. Did they employ a fact checker? Seems a little late in the game to start doing that.
Joe Hussein Mama
July 3rd, 2012
9:47 am
S. Ray — “”….as for the support for this bill, it is well documented with details provided by previous posts, that the majority of us don’t and never wanted this crap bill….”
And it is well documented that the main features of the bill *are* popular and are supported by the public.
Butch Cassidy
July 3rd, 2012
9:47 am
Sooo…….without a Republican majority in the House and the Senate, how exactly is Romney going to repeal Obamacare on day 1?
Steve
July 3rd, 2012
9:47 am
Pre existing conditions fix is HUGE. So many of us have health issues that would cause us to be denied coverage. I’m super healthy but I have asthma that causes occasional bronchitis or even pneumonia once every couple of years. If I left the corp world and tried to get my own health insurance, forget it. So with the current system, I’m locked into a corporate job because of this. That is ridiculous.
Jefferson
July 3rd, 2012
9:47 am
Romney has a bad image and it is easy to make him look bad, hell even the republicans don’t like him. Negative wins.
TGT
July 3rd, 2012
9:48 am
Romney has consistently said that his first action as President would be to repeal Obamacare. He said it before the ruling. He said it after the ruling. This has been and continues to be a winning proposition with the American electorate.
A Newsweek/Daily Beast poll after the ruling:
Obama’s net approval rating by issue:
Health care: minus-21 points (37 percent approve, 58 percent disapprove)
The deficit: minus-10 points (44 percent approve, 54 percent disapprove)
“Creating jobs”: minus-6 points (46 percent approve, 52 percent disapprove)
The economy: minus-2 points (47 percent approve, 49 percent disapprove)
Foreign policy: +1 point (48 percent approve, 47 percent disapprove)
What’s more, 44 percent of likely voters “strongly disapprove” of Obama’s handling of health care — higher than on any other issue.
Joe Hussein Mama
July 3rd, 2012
9:48 am
S. Ray — “JOE, Which liberals were so guilt ridden by the favor granted insurers (not to mention campaign cash in exchange) that they didn’t vote for the law?”
Who said any of them were?
If you want a serious answer from me, then ask a serious question. If you present me with a truckload of fertilizer as you just did, then I’m going to presume that you’re just joking and jabbing and don’t actually want a serious answer.
In the Middle
July 3rd, 2012
9:49 am
I saw Dick Morris on Fox last night bring up the idea of QALY- Quality Adjusted Life Years. He said that in the ACA, if an 80 years old person needed a new hip, he would be told no because it was too expensive to spend the money on a person of that age. Of course as I always do, I did some research and…guess what I found?
“During the debate over national health reform in the United States, the notion of weighing QALYs and costs as part of the calculus for deciding whether to cover treatments became a political minefield. Critics associated the metric with “rationing”–that is, with explicit decisions to withhold certain types of care from patients because they were too costly. As a result, the final language of the Affordable Care Act forbids the government from using QALYs and other cost-effectiveness estimates “as a threshold to determine coverage, reimbursement, or incentive programs” under Medicare (Exhibit 4).
The government is also forbidden from making decisions on “coverage, reimbursement, or incentive programs” under Medicare “in a manner that treats extending the life of an elderly, disabled, or terminally ill individual as of lower value than extending the life of an individual who is younger, nondisabled, or not terminally ill.”
The average Fox watcher is going to take them at their word and here lies the problem. People educate yourselves! Stop listening to talking points on either side! Do your own research! My thought is, there is the Republican’s story and there is the Democrat’s story. Somewhere in the middle is the truth and that is where I live!
Oscar
July 3rd, 2012
9:50 am
Sooo…….without a Republican majority in the House and the Senate, how exactly is Romney going to repeal Obamacare on day 1
__________
Even if he gets a majority in the house and a 51-49 majority in the senate, he just figured out he can’t, so he has decided to drop health care as an issue.
Adam
July 3rd, 2012
9:50 am
The law is good policy. Better policy would be single payer, but setting that aside, this bill is STILL better than the existing system prior to its passage.
It just KILLS the GOP that they were not the one to get credit. That’s really all they care about right now. That, and some of them actually never wanted health reform in the first place and their “solutions” were purely designed to distract and divide.
Steve
July 3rd, 2012
9:50 am
In the MIddle- you’re now just realizing that Faux News spreads lies???
Welcome to the Occupation
July 3rd, 2012
9:50 am
Stevie Ray:
C’mon, you know perfectly well that the stumbling block for most people is the punitive-seeming individual mandate, but even so more people accept and want the ban on discrimination against those with pre-existing conditions than oppose the mandate (as the WSJ itself doesn’t fail to report: http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/09/23/poll-make-insurers-cover-people-with-pre-existing-conditions/) .
But of course as everybody knows it’s how you GET there that’s the rub. So what polls indicate is that people are confused on how you get there and about the fact that this is the very reason for the relatively unpopular mandate. Ironically many people oppose the necessary steps to get to what they want, which must either be some kind of mandate for purchase of private plans OR a publicly administered/single-payer system.
JF McNamara
July 3rd, 2012
9:51 am
Mitt doesn’t want to make health care an issue because he thinks ObamaCare is the right thing to do.
Mitt seems like a nice guy, but he’d be a terrible President. Bush was and Obama has been strong leaders even though I haven’t always agreed with either 100%. He’ll do or say anything to get elected even when its evident its not what he wants. I’d rather have Bush who was a terrible decision maker than an easily influenced flip flopper. That kinda scares me.
TGT
July 3rd, 2012
9:51 am
Butch: He most likely will have both. But if not, among other things, he can grant executive waivers to all 50 states.