ObamaCare, taxes and economic growth
We covered this debate in the comments earlier, but in our never-ending and always vain crusade to base policy debate on actual fact rather than invented “truth,” let’s address it again, head on, so nobody can claim they missed it:
Contrary to what you may have been told and may wish to believe, the tax increases used to fund ObamaCare do not amount to the largest tax increase in history, in American history, or in American history since 1950, since 1968 or even since 1980.
However you want to cut it, it is not even close.
To the right is the list of major tax hikes since 1950, ranked by the percentage of gross domestic product that they diverted into the coffers of the U.S. government. As you can see, the 1982 tax increase signed into law by President Ronald Reagan was 60 percent greater than the tax hike needed to implement ObamaCare.
A few other points of interest:
– Note the three large tax increases implemented in the early ’50s, a decade in which real gross domestic product increased by 48.7 percent.
– Note that of the 15 largest tax hikes in U.S. history since 1950, five were signed into law by President Reagan.
– Note what isn’t there. President George W. Bush, with a Republican Congress, passed a major expansion of governmental health care with Medicare Part D and also fought two wars — one necessary, one optional — without bothering to finance that spending.
— To the contrary, while engaging in those expensive programs, President Bush and the Republican Congress passed major tax reductions in 2001 and again in 2003. Yet GDP growth in the decade was less than half those of every previous post-war decade.
– Note the 1993 tax increase signed into law by President Clinton with no Republican support. Republican leaders at the time predicted it would create a major economic meltdown. Instead, real GDP growth in the ’90s reached 37.6 percent, slightly higher than during the ’80s.
– In other words, the simplistic claim that tax cuts create growth and tax increases create recessions is simply false.
– Most important, look at the larger picture. In the previous decade, economic growth slowed to less than half the rate of any previous post-war decade; in addition, the distribution of that reduced growth was skewed heavily toward those at the very high income levels. The takeaway? If people are feeling economically squeezed, they have every right to be.
And even though the squeeze manifested itself most clearly in an era of GOP rule, lax regulation and significantly lower federal taxes, the Republican Party continues to identify government as the sole villain causing the slowdown. It is fairy-tale economics.
– Jay Bookman
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762 comments Add your comment
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:08 am
FIRST
Michael
July 2nd, 2012
9:09 am
Please don’t confuse us with the truth Jay!
Stonethrower
July 2nd, 2012
9:11 am
Doesn’t matter how much, it’s still a tax increase and the powers that be in the GOP will not tolerate it.
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:12 am
If we all pull back at the same time, that’s a depression. My spending is your income, your spending is my income. Everyone trying to pay off debt at the same time while no one is spending means someone has to spend, and that HAS to be the government. Trying to address a long term problem of deficit spending ONLY is not smart, and will take a lot longer without a stronger recovery.
We have a revenue problem. Not JUST a revenue problem, but a revenue problem. DEAL WITH IT.
We were right about Obamacare, it was Constitutional. We were right every time the economy hit a slump – we SPENT from the government side to help get out of it. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS increased government jobs during other economic downturns, and RAISED TAXES. All of that is Keynesian. All of that WORKS.
It’s time for you cons to stop trying to beat a dead horse. You can’t beat us, so join us.
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:13 am
Doesn’t matter how much, it’s still a tax increase and the powers that be in the GOP will not tolerate it.
They are fools then, because the taxes that PAY FOR Obamacare got through anyway.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
July 2nd, 2012
9:15 am
Oh the poutrage! Politics of the conned must trump policy. A tax that offsets the real costs imposed on taxpayers and enterprises by those who would risk going without health insurance……
Oh the pout!
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:16 am
@ByronYork: Last question: If Roberts’ Obamacare opinion was such brilliant win for conservatism, how come Scalia/Alito/Thomas/Kennedy couldn’t see it?
#TweetsFromUpheldWeekend
Paul
July 2nd, 2012
9:17 am
“the tax increases used to fund ObamaCare do not amount to the largest tax increase in history,”
Point of clarification: it’s not the funding for ObamaCare that’s the issue. According to the talking points, repeated on the Sunday news shows, it’s the tax for those who choose to not purchase health insurance that’s ‘the most gargantuan tax increase the middle class has ever seen”‘ (variations on the theme abound.”
When it’s pointed out that in Massachusetts that’s maybe 1 or 2 percent of the population, the points flip to “well, government’s telling you what to do” or some other diversion. But come another talk show, they’re back to the original assertion.
out for a while.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
July 2nd, 2012
9:17 am
yay! charts!
Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
July 2nd, 2012
9:18 am
Thanks Ronnie Raygun!
Facts will prevail
July 2nd, 2012
9:18 am
Note that of the 15 largest tax hikes in U.S. history since 1950, five were signed into law by President Reagan.
_______
Jay no matter how much you present the conservative bloggers with facts, the more they create a fantasy that will not change their point of view!!
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:20 am
Paul: It’s good that most of the moderators are not buying the whole “OMG HJUGE TAX INCREASE ONT HE MIDDLE CLASS” lie.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
July 2nd, 2012
9:20 am
Until the GOP admits we need taxes to help end our deficit and balance our budget, they have no value to me. I would much rather spend a little more in taxes and help those who need helping.
larry
July 2nd, 2012
9:21 am
But…………but………. they said………..Reagan RAISED taxes ? ……..huh?
This does not compute. This does not compute.
Mighty Righty
July 2nd, 2012
9:22 am
Nice try. First the cost of Obamacare is not known. Best estimate by CBO who has a reputation of always underestimating real cost, is that it will cost more than two trillion over ten years. Note that Obamacare is not income to the treasury as the other items on Jays chart but is an expense to be paid out of the treasury. Jay is confusing revenue and expense. The Democrats flat lie when they claim Obamacare is not a tax. The “fee” is paid as a percentage of income and collected by the IRS and evenJay compares it to tax increases. Nuff said.
JohnnyReb
July 2nd, 2012
9:22 am
I almost quit reading when I got to the part about the tax being measured against GDP.
Do you think someone scrambling to make ends meet, working two jobs, feeding three kids, etc, etc. gives one rats a$$ how much his tax increase affects the GDP? The obvious answer is no. He only cares about how it affects his take home pay.
Try another tack Jay, this one doesn’t work
Joe Hussein Mama
July 2nd, 2012
9:22 am
Conservatives — now’s the time for you to change your argument, your methods and your angle. What you were doing and saying didn’t work. Continuing to do it and say it will avail you naught.
Do what conservatives did 40+ years ago — back up, regroup, adjust your script and then try again.
But if y’all want to keep going with the same angle and keep right on failing, that’s cool with me.
Joe Hussein Mama
July 2nd, 2012
9:24 am
JohnnyReb — “Do you think someone scrambling to make ends meet, working two jobs, feeding three kids, etc, etc. gives one rats a$$ how much his tax increase affects the GDP? The obvious answer is no. He only cares about how it affects his take home pay. Try another tack Jay, this one doesn’t work”
That’s strange. It’s the same argument Republicans have been using to defend their own tax cuts and their own deficit spending for the last couple of generations.
Mary Elizabeth
July 2nd, 2012
9:24 am
“Government of, by, and for the people” was intended by America’s founders. Government is NOT a villain. That it has been maligned as such has only been Republican propaganda for more than three decades.
That fact must be reaffirmed, over and over, as well as the thought that the Bush II major tax cuts were implemented, along with major spending in his presidency, in order to insure a cut to the government programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Republicans, now, have “graduated” to wanting to dismantle public education and ObamaCare – other “government” programs.
See the self-serving propaganda of the 1%, which is obvious.
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:24 am
Just the facts:
http://factcheck.org/2012/06/how-much-is-the-obamacare-tax/
The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers
July 2nd, 2012
9:25 am
I assume that you libs believe that Obamacare will sustain itself and never run into deficits. Someone has to pay for healthcare for all of the unemployed americans thanks to the Obama economy.
JohnnyReb
July 2nd, 2012
9:25 am
It’s also astonishing how the Left thinks you can tax your way to growth.
It ranks right up there with being able to give over a million people free healthcare without raising cost.
Joseph
July 2nd, 2012
9:25 am
Spin it anyway you want Jay but its a simple fact that this is the biggest TAX increase in a generation. That can’t be argued by you or none of the surrogates of the left.
DannyX
July 2nd, 2012
9:25 am
I was filling up my tank this morning and was fuming because of the Fast and Furious rise in gas prices, pumping $6 a gallon gas, wondering where I’ll come up with the money to pay for the largest tax increase in the history of the universe.
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:25 am
how much his tax increase affects the GDP?
This qualifies as MISSING THE POINT
Butch Cassidy
July 2nd, 2012
9:26 am
Mighty Righty – “First the cost of Obamacare is not known.”
Then why do you all bitch so much about how expensive it is?
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
July 2nd, 2012
9:26 am
There are none so blind as those who will not see…
Steve Atl
July 2nd, 2012
9:27 am
Now Jay has a Finance and Economics degree from Google University.
Obama said it was not a TAX and it is a TAX.
Obama is RAISING TAXES on the middle class.
Obama and Team are not being truthful with the American people.
Jay
July 2nd, 2012
9:27 am
Joseph, were you alive in 1982?
Joe Hussein Mama
July 2nd, 2012
9:27 am
JohnnyReb — “It’s also astonishing how the Left thinks you can tax your way to growth.”
It certainly would be, if “the Left” actually thought that.
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:27 am
It’s also astonishing how the Left thinks you can tax your way to growth
Straw man. What the left REALLY thinks is that you can’t CUT your way to growth. But in a binary worldview, that somehow necessarily means you must be FOR tax increases ONLY to solve the problem. Would you care to show anyone who has proposed ONLY increases taxes to solve our entire deficit problem? Because I can show you Republicans who propose spending cuts only.
Butch Cassidy
July 2nd, 2012
9:28 am
JohnnyReb – “Do you think someone scrambling to make ends meet, working two jobs, feeding three kids, etc, etc. gives one rats a$$ how much his tax increase affects the GDP?”
Aren’t these the same people that just a few short months ago were merely victims of their own poor choices in life? What, now that Obamacare is upheld you suddenly give a crap about them?
Joseph
July 2nd, 2012
9:28 am
Jay:
How long is a generation Jay?
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:28 am
I was filling up my tank this morning and was fuming
LAWL
Joseph
July 2nd, 2012
9:29 am
Raising TAXES in the middle of a recession. Is that the answer dems have?
Joe Hussein Mama
July 2nd, 2012
9:29 am
Steve atl – “Obama is RAISING TAXES on the middle class.”
Lie.
The only people affected are those who can afford health insurance and who choose not to buy it.
Thank you for this opportunity to clarify yet another piece of Republican misinformation.
larry
July 2nd, 2012
9:29 am
It’s also astonishing how the Left thinks you can tax your way to growth
It’s also astonishing how the Right thinks you can tax cut your way to growth.
Compare 35% to 17%. Or 49% to 17%.
But dont let facts get in the way.
Jay
July 2nd, 2012
9:29 am
What I find astonishing and depressing is that this is such an obvious, easily documentable lie, yet in American politics today there is no price to be paid for telling such a lie.
Woodstock Mike
July 2nd, 2012
9:29 am
Give the government more money. Give the people less money. The Democrat way to a better life!!
Joseph
July 2nd, 2012
9:31 am
Jay:
I agree Jay. Kinda like the lie that was told to the American people that Obamacare was not a TAX…
Joe Hussein Mama
July 2nd, 2012
9:32 am
Mike — “Give the government more money. Give the people less money. The Democrat way to a better life!!”
Yeah, y’all go ahead and go with that campaign slogan, Punkin.
Skip
July 2nd, 2012
9:32 am
It’s really not about health care or taxes is it.
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:32 am
Obama said it was not a TAX and it is a TAX.
Factcheck.org:
Is It a Tax or a Penalty?
We will be using the terms interchangeably from now on. Whatever you call it, it’s the functional equivalent of a tax, and the Supreme Court has ruled that it is an exercise of the taxing power of Congress.
The law labels the assessment a “penalty” (see Section 5000A) and avoids using the term “tax.” But Chief Justice John Roberts, writing for the five justices in the majority, said the penalty can be considered a tax that is within the power of Congress to impose.
So yes, the penalty for not paying for your own health insurance or accepting it from your employer or the myriad of other ways you can get it, is a tax.
Factcheck.org:
Who’s Exempt?
The law makes a number of exemptions for low-income persons and hardship cases.
“Individuals who cannot afford coverage”: If an employer offers coverage that would cost the employee more than 8 percent of his or her household income (for self-only coverage) that individual is exempt from the tax.
“Taxpayers with income below filing threshold”: Also exempt are those who earn too little to be required to file tax returns. For 2011 — as previously mentioned — those thresholds were $9,500 for a single person under age 65, and $19,000 for a married person filing jointly with a spouse, for example. The thresholds go up each year in line with inflation, so those cut-offs will be higher in 2014, when the tax first takes effect.
“Hardships”: The Secretary of Health and Human Services is empowered to exempt others that she or he determines to “have suffered a hardship with respect to the capability to obtain coverage.”
Other exemptions: Also exempt are members of Indian tribes, persons with only brief gaps in coverage, and members of certain religious groups currently exempt from Social Security taxes (which as we’ve previously reported are chiefly Anabaptist — that is, Mennonite, Amish or Hutterite).
Lots of exemptions there. So it doesn’t really affect too many people. And by the way, that ALSO means that it’s not “a tax on the middle class.” That would mean the tax applies only tot he middle class spectrum, and applies to nearly all of them. And THAT is simply FALSE. As is the claim that it is the largest tax increase in history.
But keep on with the hyperbole. The President with his LEADERSHIP pushed forward a politically unpopular law, got it passed, and it passed soncstitutional muster. He has CHANGEd the health care system and has given HOPE to millions of Americans.
Yes, hopey changey is working out really well for me, thanks for asking.
Butch Cassidy
July 2nd, 2012
9:32 am
Woodstock Mike – “Give the people less money.”
Wow, MIke believes that people should just be given money. How long have you been a member of the 47%
Joe Hussein Mama
July 2nd, 2012
9:33 am
Joseph — “I agree Jay. Kinda like the lie that was told to the American people that Obamacare was not a TAX…”
What a shame that you didn’t actually read the SCOTUS decision.
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:33 am
*constitutional muster
wow what a garble that was…
Steve Atl
July 2nd, 2012
9:33 am
Joe – If I am middle class and I choose not to be covered…I will be taxed. Not very complicated.
Also…who is going to pay for the 30 million newly covered people. The money tree behind the White House?
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
July 2nd, 2012
9:33 am
“Raising TAXES in the middle of a recession. ”
really? we have negative GDP??? care to substantiate that???
barking frog
July 2nd, 2012
9:33 am
if you consider that all
health insurance is now
a tax since it is required
by the federal government
you can reach the largest
tax thingie and this allows
the penalty to be applied
for not paying the tax, but
all of this is a stretch just
like it was when CJ used it.
larry
July 2nd, 2012
9:34 am
Give the government more money. Give the people less money. The Democrat way to a better life!!”
Give some people more money. Give the rest of the people less money. The Republican way to a better life!!
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:34 am
Joseph: Kinda like the lie that was told to the American people that Obamacare was not a TAX…
You know what else he said? He said it was Constitutional.
Whaddya got on that one, buddy?
SPIN SPIN SPIN!
res_communes
July 2nd, 2012
9:34 am
Who cares what the % of GDP is…Americans will pay thousands of dollars more in taxes annually due to owebamacare…we seem to have increased debt by trillions, taxes by hundreds of billions, and yet have made no progress on the 30 million unemployed and underemployed….what a disaster.
And lest we think the new taxes from owebamacare will be levied against those that choose not to purchase insurance…think again…here’s a sampling:
Medicine Cabinet Tax
Caps on Flexible Spending Accounts (FSA)
Medical Itemized Deduction Hurdle
Health Savings Account (HSA) Withdrawal Tax Hike
Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans,
Indoor Tanning Services Tax, and
in addition, there are thirteen other taxes that apply to businesses and that apply to high income (over $250,000 per year) households…and who will ultimately bear the cost…the businesses?
The average American can expect to pay thousands more annually due to owebamacare.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
July 2nd, 2012
9:35 am
“constitutional muster”
does one have that on one’s hot dog for the 4th of July??
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:35 am
Steve Atl: Also…who is going to pay for the 30 million newly covered people. The money tree behind the White House?
You guys really need to get your talking points in order. You keep claiming it’s this HUGE TAX INCREASE and yet, you say it’s not paid for.
Or is it that the new Republican thing is that taxes don’t actually pay for anything?
Jay
July 2nd, 2012
9:35 am
MightyRighty, how can ObamaCare not include “income to the treasury,” as you claim, yet also be a major tax increase?
You somehow make both claims in one paragraph.
Mighty Righty
July 2nd, 2012
9:36 am
The looney left will find their pay checks have less money than prior to the non tax. Call it what you want, you will pay the government to implement Obamacare. It will cost trillions of dollars that you are not now paying and the health care will be less available, poorer quality and cost core. The loons will argue that is not true. However every single country that has installed this socialist system in their country are proof that their care is less available, costs more, and is poorer quality.
The wealthy people of those countries continue paying for their own health care and even travel to the US for better health care than what is available in their own countries. The wealthy like Obama and his family and their Democrat elected friends will continue their own health care out side of the system they have mandated for each of us. If this system is so darn good why aren’t the proponents eager and willing to require everyone join. They know that what they say, is a lie.
stands for decibels
July 2nd, 2012
9:36 am
Programming note, and sorry if this sounds like a cheap pre-emptive shot, but Jay writes:
always vain crusade to base policy debate on actual fact rather than invented “truth,”
For those who think “always vain” is overly pessimistic? A reminder: There are people who believe Obama has spent more than every previous President combined.
A supposed grad student regular here actually posted this as a “fact” coupla months back. That’s what we’re dealing with. Which leads me to Adam’s comment:
We were right about Obamacare, it was Constitutional. We were right every time the economy hit a slump – we SPENT from the government side to help get out of it. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS increased government jobs during other economic downturns, and RAISED TAXES. All of that is Keynesian. All of that WORKS.
Wouldn’t it be nice if being correct about stuff were enough to win elections?
It’s an always vain belief to which Yours Truly isn’t quite willing to stop clinging.
Joe Hussein Mama
July 2nd, 2012
9:36 am
Steve atl — “Joe – If I am middle class and I choose not to be covered…I will be taxed. Not very complicated.”
That’s right. Your personal choice to incur that tax. Not very complicated, but very hard for conservatives to comprehend.
“Also…who is going to pay for the 30 million newly covered people. The money tree behind the White House?”
So what’s your complaint, exactly? That you can’t freeload on the system any more, or that poor people are going to get assistance and you aren’t?
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:37 am
And lest we think the new taxes from obamacare (sic) will be levied against those that choose not to purchase insurance…think again…here’s a sampling:
So that means it’s paid for, right? That it isn’t some huge increase tot he deficit without at least partially taxing to pay for it, right?
larry
July 2nd, 2012
9:37 am
If I am middle class and I choose not to be covered. Okay then, you get in a wreck, you are injured, we leave you on the side of the road.
The vultures will take care of you.
Like you said, your choice.
F. Sinkwich
July 2nd, 2012
9:37 am
“Raising TAXES in the middle of a recession. Is that the answer dems have?”
It’s the ONLY answer they have.
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:37 am
USinUK: does one have that on one’s hot dog for the 4th of July??
After freedom fries, why not?
stands for decibels
July 2nd, 2012
9:38 am
Also too? GOP faithful?
I’m sorry you didn’t get the complete absence of any tax increase ever from Obama, that you didn’t vote for.
Same deal with that transparency you didn’t vote for. Sorry about that.
Oh, and closing Gitmo, that you also also didn’t vote for. Tough break, chaps.
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:38 am
“Raising TAXES in the middle of a recession. Is that the answer dems have?”
It’s the ONLY answer they have.
Lie and straw man.
It must be fun in your bubble:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go43XeW6Wg4
Joseph
July 2nd, 2012
9:39 am
Joe Hussein Mama:
You obviously didn’t read it because it specifically says that it is a TAX. Spin how you want. I do realize sometimes facts get in the way for you libs but your argument is laughable..
The Act provides that this “penalty”
will be paid to the Internal Revenue Service with an individual’s TAXES, and “shall be assessed and collected in the same manner” as TAX
penalties. §§5000A(c), (g)(1).
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
July 2nd, 2012
9:39 am
Adam – just not ON your freedom fries … yuk.
Jefferson
July 2nd, 2012
9:39 am
Good things, this law. What is there not to like ?
DannyX
July 2nd, 2012
9:39 am
“Give the government more money. Give the people less money. The Democrat way to a better life!!”
Yes, the GOP way is much better, lower taxes and spend, spend, spend.
Fantasy is always the best route to take in life. For instance, create a “socialist” unfunded Medicare Part D program, start 2 wars that you don’t pay for, create the unfunded “big government” Department of Homeland security, then hand out massive tax cuts. Then pretend you have created an economic utopia.
Just pretend.
stands for decibels
July 2nd, 2012
9:40 am
“Raising TAXES in the middle of a recession. Is that the answer dems have?”
It’s the ONLY answer they have.
F Sink and Joseph, we are not in a recession.
(Would you like us to be in one, again? Is this wishful thinking, talking here?)
larry
July 2nd, 2012
9:40 am
However every single country that has installed this socialist system in their country are proof that their care is less available, costs more, and is poorer quality.
And the facts say otherwise , plus they are living longer on average.
Road Scholar
July 2nd, 2012
9:41 am
USinUK: And color too!
Jay there was a show on last night, I believe on CNN, that had Dr Sanjay Gupta compare health care in other countries with the US costs/coverage. I can not find the link.
Points made was that two very capitalist countries, Taiwan and Switzerland, had systems that were private (Taiwan did set basic healthcare costs…not elective costs) and outperformed the US system. Switzerland had better coverage, more expensive, but had a lower percentage of GDP by 50%. and IT WAS NOT SOCIALIST!!!!! Even more so they identified interesting problems and solutions, esp to the issue of the uninsured, the amount they consume (we pay for) and how they are addressing that issue.
My friend has used the Taiwan system on his visits there.. extremely efficient and open to all.
fair and balanced
July 2nd, 2012
9:41 am
Jay – It is a 3.8% increase in the capital gains tax that is driving the 1% crazy. It will be used to fund the Medicare free drug program George W. stated with no funding. Tell me where there is any other across the board tax increase? Or are we talking a penalty for not having health insurance as a surcharge for free emergency room care passed by Saint Ronnie with no funding source?
Joe Hussein Mama
July 2nd, 2012
9:42 am
Joseph — “Joe Hussein Mama: You obviously didn’t read it because it specifically says that it is a TAX.”
Wrong. I call your bluff.
It says that if it can be *construed* to be a tax, then it’s within Congress’s power to pass, and therefore Constitutional.
“Spin how you want. I do realize sometimes facts get in the way for you libs but your argument is laughable..”
Sorry, Punkin. Facts got in *your* way.
“The Act provides that this “penalty”
will be paid to the Internal Revenue Service with an individual’s TAXES, and “shall be assessed and collected in the same manner” as TAX
penalties. §§5000A(c), (g)(1).”
“The Act” is not “the decision.” Pay attention and learn to read.
Adam
July 2nd, 2012
9:42 am
Adam – just not ON your freedom fries … yuk.
Don’t tread on me USinUK. I DO WHAT I WANT BECAUSE FREEDOOOMMMMMMM
stands for decibels
July 2nd, 2012
9:43 am
Who cares what the % of GDP is…
ha ha ha.
I couldn’t make this stuff up if I tried.
Joseph
July 2nd, 2012
9:44 am
Jay:
You still haven’t answered my question. Is this not the largest increase in TAXES in a generation?
JohnnyReb
July 2nd, 2012
9:44 am
Jay, where did you come up with this GDP comparison? Tax rates are based on AGI. Their results can be correlated to GDP but on an individual basis, as is the case with the healthcare tax, GDP has no meaning. It appears to be a snake-oil salesman approach.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
July 2nd, 2012
9:44 am
Adam – I do believe you mean FREEANCE (it goes with PEEANCE)
Joseph
July 2nd, 2012
9:45 am
stands for decibels:
Little to no job growth and the GDP hovering in the 1% range. I guess things are going great in the mind of a liberal…
stands for decibels
July 2nd, 2012
9:45 am
It is a 3.8% increase in the capital gains tax that is driving the 1% crazy.
Can’t wait to hear Romney’s Ralph Kramden impression when Obama decides to deal that card to him personally, on TeeVee.
JohnnyReb
July 2nd, 2012
9:46 am
Butch – just because I believe in individual responsibility does not mean I think it fair to put the boot to the throat of a poor person. Your statement is ridiculous.
Obamacare is yet another Democratic ploy to keep poor people on the government plantation. They almost have them now where they can’t survice without the government; this may tip it to no return.
Joseph
July 2nd, 2012
9:46 am
Jefferson:
Its a TAX on middle and low income families. One that they can’t afford right now.. That’s whats not to lie!!!
captguitarman
July 2nd, 2012
9:47 am
I’m with you on this one, Johnny Reb. Showing this tax as a percentage of GDP is a red herring. What is not shown on that chart is how much tax the productive class is already paying an enormous tax burden — far more than when those earlier listed taxes were imposed. With federal, state, local, real estate, rent, sales, gasoline taxes, etc. etc.. working families work well into the month of May for the government before they start working for themselves. People need to figure out that with the federal and state and even local government structures we have put into place, there will never be enough taxes in the minds of the Dem/Libs, who want constant government expansion to take care of people. Such as the creation of Obnamacare, the Mother of All Entitlements in the middle of the Great Recession. There is no limit to that mindset. And with the ever expanding government, we have been creatint more and more government dependents for decades. There are generations of famiies that have been on public assistance since Lyndon Johnson’s Big Kahuna really set the tone in the sixties, The Great Society. But, it’s not so great is it? And all that “fairness” BS. The productive class, especially those at the top, pay the lion’s share of the Federal income taxes as it is. 50% of Americans (and climbing) don’t even pay federal income taxes., But, it is still not enough. It will never be enough.
bman.
July 2nd, 2012
9:47 am
under Clinton, where would growth had been if not for the dot.com, telecommunications boom?
stands for decibels
July 2nd, 2012
9:47 am
I guess things are going great in the mind of a liberal…
Going great |= not being in a recession.
Also, this.
Recon 0311 2533
July 2nd, 2012
9:48 am
Obamacare .49%? The facts will be rolling out on this 2700 page monster over the next 4 months up until the election. We will see it tied to a weakening economy and the truth about its tax implications for all taxpayers. As all of this unfolds we will see the Obamacare tax far and exceed .49%. The far-left and their Democrat stooges better fasten seat belts because it’s going to be a rough ride.
DannyX
July 2nd, 2012
9:48 am
“Raising TAXES in the middle of a recession. Is that the answer dems have?”
Georgia Republicans have the solution. Georgia Power was allowed to charge its residential customers for a power plant not yet producing. Residential customers took on the role of investor without the benefits. Basically a tax. Democrats should call the Obamacare tax a surcharge, that way they are off the hook.
Georgia Republicans also don’t want to raise taxes for transportation, they want voters to do it. Imagine that! In the middle of the Great Bush Recession!
Mighty Righty
July 2nd, 2012
9:48 am
Jay
July 2nd, 2012
9:35 am
MightyRighty, how can ObamaCare not include “income to the treasury,” as you claim, yet also be a major tax increase?
You somehow make both claims in one paragraph.
Jay this “tax” is to pay for a new government required program that previously had no cost to the government and did not exist.. The reason for this targeted “tax” is to provide free health care to a select group of people numbering in the millions. You are comparing it to general tax increases which went in to the general fund and had the effect of reducing the deficit. This tax does no such thing and is not intended to so do.
Mary Elizabeth
July 2nd, 2012
9:48 am
Divide the middle/working class so that they fight one another instead of opposing those wealthy and powerful few who are changing the soul of America to serve the interests of the top 1% – instead of the interests of the majority of Americans. Many have been sold a bill of goods as to who is looking out for their interests.
The accomplished division and hatred has now created “camps” of personal identification which are so intrenched that I do not think “reason” or “facts” will persuade. But facts do help, especially facts repeated frequently, as well as pointing out, repeatedly, the propaganda that has been occurring – without penalty – for more than 30 years.
All Americans MUST reaffirm our common heritage – “a government of, by, and for the people” irrespective of wealth and status because this is a nation built upon the premise that all are inherently equal.
St Simons - he-ne-ha
July 2nd, 2012
9:48 am
“…there is no price to be paid for telling such a lie.”
because they’ve already hocked every bit of credibility they ever
had, and pawned the dog. There is no price any more because
their credibility can’t go below zero.
I notice the am radio clowns have added “looming” and “potential”
to their ‘biggest tax in the history of the world’ talky words (clever)
making it meaningless, same as the rest of their drivel
stands for decibels
July 2nd, 2012
9:48 am
What is not shown on that chart is how much tax the productive class is already paying an enormous tax burden
another knee slapper. You guys are awesome.
barking frog
July 2nd, 2012
9:48 am
Obamacare is not a good
campaign issue and will
be ignored by both sides.
Joe Hussein Mama
July 2nd, 2012
9:49 am
captguitarman — “What is not shown on that chart is how much tax the productive class is already paying an enormous tax burden”
Horsespit. Taxes are at historic lows, even on high-income individuals.
Lord Help Us
July 2nd, 2012
9:49 am
‘Its a TAX on middle and low income families. One that they can’t afford right now.. That’s whats not to lie!!!’
Joseph, can you please show your work on this claim…I am calling BS.
Thanks in advance.
Joseph
July 2nd, 2012
9:51 am
DannyX:
Laughable… Spin Obama’s enormous TAX hike to blame Georgia Republicans… I guess next Bush will be blamed. Oh you already did that didn’t you Looney libs…
JohnnyReb
July 2nd, 2012
9:51 am
captguitarman @ 9:47 – I couldn’t agree more. These Moonbats (a term of endearment) mean well, they just don’t realize how far astray they have become.
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2012
9:51 am
“Also…who is going to pay for the 30 million newly covered people”
The same people who are paying for them NOW, in the form of increased medical care costs: you and I.
JohnnyReb
July 2nd, 2012
9:53 am
Mary Elizabeth – please enlighten us and tell us where the money would come from for all the entitlements you sooo love if it were not for the 1% you seem to hate so much?
Joseph
July 2nd, 2012
9:54 am
Lord Help Us:
Enjoy being informed…
http://www.myheritage.org/news/how-the-obamacare-taxes-affect-the-middle-class/
stands for decibels
July 2nd, 2012
9:55 am
Points made was that two very capitalist countries, Taiwan and Switzerland, had systems that were private
thanks for the tip. I knew about Switzerland and have been talking about it a bit of late, didn’t know about Taiwan.
Granted those countries are very, very different from us. But (for instance) at least Taiwan is a lot bigger than, oh, say, Greece… more than twice as big, in fact.