The orphaned RomneyCare thrives nonetheless
Its daddy may have abandoned his child and repudiated all paternal responsibility, yet RomneyCare lives.
“Here in Massachusetts for the last six years using a model just like national health care reform, the Affordable Care Act, we have reached 99.8 percent of children, over 98 percent of our overall population with insurance. We are healthier by any number of measures, the cost of health care has come down on a per capita basis, it has not busted the budget. There are more businesses offering insurance to their employees today than before health insurance went into effect, so all the list of horrors that Gov. Romney talked about, that the congressional Republicans have talked about were not actually reality here in Massachusetts where we have tried that.”
– Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick
Some additional facts and figures:
– As Patrick indicated above, less than 2 percent of Massachusetts residents lack health insurance. Nationally, the average is roughly 16 percent uninsured.
– Since the inception of the program in 2006, the average annual rate of increase in the rate per covered person has been held to less than 2 percent.
– According to a report by the Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation, “additional state spending attributable to the health reform law accounted for only 1.4 percent of the Commonwealth’s $32 billion budget in fiscal 2011.”
– In 2010, the most recent data available, 44,000 people paid the penalty for not having coverage.
– The MTF reports that “77 percent of Massachusetts employers with three or more employees offered health
insurance coverage to their employees in 2010, up seven percentage points since 2005. This compares with 69 percent of employers offering health coverage to their workers nationwide.”
– “… in the latest round of proposed premiums for the merged health insurance market for small businesses and non-group individuals, health plans sought average increases of just 2 to 3 percent, compared with increases of 15 to 20 percent two years ago. Although the trend of slower premium growth is currently a nationwide phenomenon and may be, in part, a function of the economic recession, Massachusetts is experiencing a notably slower rate of growth than the national average.” — MTF
– ” … recent data show that family premiums for private, employer-sponsored coverage in Massachusetts fell by an average of nearly 1 percent from 2009 to 2010, while the country as a whole saw a 6 percent increase. As a result, the state’s ranking for family premiums fell from the highest in the country in 2009 to ninth place in 2010. Similarly, individual premiums for Massachusetts workers rose by just 2.8 percent in 2010 versus 5.8 percent for the nation as a whole.” — MTF
– Jay Bookman
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682 comments Add your comment
Adam
June 29th, 2012
1:37 pm
MiltonMan: Please make sure you call out your liberal buddies when they reference Washington Post, Huffington, etc.
Why? He wasn’t calling out a “fellow conservative” when he called you out, now was he? Stop trying to make us do your work for you.
Adam
June 29th, 2012
1:38 pm
josef @ 1:37p
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
1:38 pm
I’m not sure I get that…How much Republican support did he get to pass what we have? I mean did giving up the single payer gain any additional support from the right?
Single payer would have been much better IMHO
Jay explains it much better than I can, here:
Republicans wanted the mandate. Obama gave them that. The Republicans wanted to make sure that illegal immigrants would not be eligible. Obama gave them that, agreeing to require proof of citizenship before coverage. Republicans wanted to make sure that abortions could not be covered. Obama gave them that. They wanted the public option taken out. Obama gave them that. John McCain, Eric Cantor and others talked of using high-risk pools to deal with pre-existing conditions. Obama put that in the bill. They wanted the ability to sell health insurance across state lines. Obama gave them that, allowing creation of interstate health-care compacts among states.
All that and more, and still the Republicans refused, making it clear they would blackball any of their members who dared to support a bill that contained so much of their own ideas.
How much support from republicans?
As I recall (only because Bosch was over the moon about it at the time bein’ his goddess and all…), it was Olympia Snowe and maybe a couple of others that made it possible.
And single payer?
Hell to the yeah, but being the socialist/Marxist that I am, I want free health care
Doomy with a beer in his hand and his toes in the sand
June 29th, 2012
1:38 pm
Here we go!,
ACA solves none of the problems you mentioned. None. The cost of health care keeps rising due to a myriad number of reasons- an aging population, a fatass population, enormous amounts of defensive medicine being practiced to avoid lawsuits, more alcohol and drug abuse, more medical devices, new drugs, and new technologies that add years to life but at an added new cost, etc. We simply demand and use more medical care than ever before and that’s simply not going to change.
getalife
June 29th, 2012
1:41 pm
doomy got some government welfare.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
1:43 pm
Kam, well if you are going to divulge the “plan”, be sure to get it right.
Well, just damn.
Goes to show what I missed at the monthly O of O meetings while tending my garden.
getalife
June 29th, 2012
1:43 pm
doomy,
What is the estimated cost of health care for 47 million Americans without insurance?
Talking Head
June 29th, 2012
1:43 pm
“Hell to the yeah, but being the socialist/Marxist that I am..”
The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem
Doomy with a beer in his hand and his toes in the sand
June 29th, 2012
1:44 pm
josef,
Its going to be real good for us agents in a number of different ways and for a few different reasons. There are some things I actually like and support in Obamacare such as removal of lifetime caps, etc. As for covering pre-existing conditions I like having that covered also. I just would have structured it differently is all.
Otherwise I have no problem with it passing except that I think people need to be realistic and they need to understand- there is no free lunch. The new taxes included in Obamcare and what I believe will be a substantial rise in premium are going to be sticker shock to some people. Its not all bad. Its not the end of the world for cons despite what you hear and its not a great new day for Dems either. Reality will set in on both.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
1:46 pm
OH NOES! TOMKAT IS SPLITTING UP!
stands for decibels
June 29th, 2012
1:47 pm
Its not all bad
Jeez, TD, if you’re going to get all reasonable-sounding on us, we’re just going to have to send you out to the beach more often. Think you could handle that?
Doomy with a beer in his hand and his toes in the sand
June 29th, 2012
1:48 pm
getalife,
A lot of those 47 million are people who simply choose to go without health insurance. A new car is a more important priority to many of them, especially younger people for whom the premium is cheap and affordable but just not a priority- I see it every day. Hopefully the new law will change that. The law may force them to purchase which is good for me but the law does nothing to actually lessen the overall cost of insurance.
Doomy with a beer in his hand and his toes in the sand
June 29th, 2012
1:49 pm
stands for decibels,
Sorry to shock you. Maybe the sun is getting to me and turning me into one of them reasonable, clear minded liberal folk.
getalife
June 29th, 2012
1:50 pm
doomy would be all in if w did it.
If it does not control costs, doomy will be out of a job.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
June 29th, 2012
1:51 pm
josef
June 29th, 2012
1:29 pm
Fatwah or not, just trying to show that the times were different back then…it wasn’t all black and white…
Common Damn Sense isn't Very Common
June 29th, 2012
1:51 pm
Doomy@1:49 pm
Maybe the sun is getting to me and turning me into one of them reasonable, clear minded liberal folk.
————————————————–
I think it’s probably the beer talking
Doomy with a beer in his hand and his toes in the sand
June 29th, 2012
1:51 pm
Allright. I’m out. Gotta pack the cooler with beer and head out for a 3 pm charter. See ya’ll next week. Someone tell the Red Snapper, the amberjack, and the other big fish to swim away and do it fast. Doomy coming for them.
josef
June 29th, 2012
1:53 pm
THULSA
@ 1:49
Well, you DO know which side your bread is buttered on…
Seriously, though, I was interested in your take seeings as to how you’re in the position your in. Thanks for the input and the honesty.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
1:53 pm
I got a Fatwah once, good thing I had health care and was able to get an inoculation
getalife
June 29th, 2012
1:54 pm
Have fun doomy.
stands for decibels
June 29th, 2012
1:55 pm
Have fun doomy.
like getalife said.
josef
June 29th, 2012
1:56 pm
NORMAL
You are right. What I find galling is the simple answers for simple minds in the trivialization of history. It makes you kinda wonder what 150 years from now how they’ll be presenting us in our time and place…
josef
June 29th, 2012
1:57 pm
K’chak
@ 1:53
Tundra Dude
June 29th, 2012
1:58 pm
Paul:
Merechant Mariner? You guys have my respect. It’s quite a life.
It’s perfect for “differently normal” types. Not surprised your boss was a bit nuts.
The unions were a little light on psychological screening……..
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
1:58 pm
It makes you kinda wonder what 150 years from now how they’ll be presenting us in our time and place…
Kim Kardashian’s butt.
josef
June 29th, 2012
2:00 pm
K’chak
@ 1:58
You on a roll today!
barking frog
June 29th, 2012
2:06 pm
Fat wahs are increasing the
cost of health insurance.
josef
June 29th, 2012
2:07 pm
What y’all wanna bet we don’t get FNM early tonight!
Anyway, duty calls…back in a bit…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
2:08 pm
josef
I ain’t kidding. It’s been 50 years since the death of Norma Jean and all she had to immortalize her was limited pieces of film, but she still draws a fascination.
stands for decibels
June 29th, 2012
2:09 pm
Kim Kardashian’s butt
How could we leave this behind?
Adam
June 29th, 2012
2:09 pm
Doomy: The cost of health care keeps rising due to a myriad number of reasons- an aging population, a fatass population, enormous amounts of defensive medicine being practiced to avoid lawsuits, more alcohol and drug abuse, more medical devices, new drugs, and new technologies that add years to life but at an added new cost, etc.
Uhhhh. I assume that means you think all the preventative care provisions don’t do squat to address these problems too? If so I would suggest that you should look at the results of similar measures.
A dad
June 29th, 2012
2:25 pm
This will be a double post, both here and in Bookman’s blog. While the debate over Obamacare will undoubtedly continue, and the talking heads, both informed and misinformed, will continue to spew vitriol at one another, what I found fascinating, and would direct everyone with a proclivity for, was that on page 190 of the 193-pg opinion (I swer federal judges must get a word-for-word bonus) was that is was completely obvious that the current “dissent” was, for at least some time unknown, the actual opinion before Roberts switched for whatever reason. For those libs who will undoubtedly deny this and chastise me, this is based on the fact that Scalia talks about Ginsberg in her “dissent,” and then you will see astericks and that’s when Scalia takes Roberts to task for jumping ship. The heck with the oris and cons of the law, I want to know what’s up in the backrooms of the SCOTUS such as to get John-boy to switch sides. Inquiring minds want to know.
carlosgvv
June 29th, 2012
2:26 pm
josef – 1:37
You’ve used that “beaten as a child” and “cry for help” line once too often. While you’ve been analyzing my posts, I’ve been analyzing yours. I see a number of psychological problems in them.
Stay tuned.
They BOTH suck
June 29th, 2012
2:26 pm
TD
Seems that you are enjoying your vacation. Good for you. Continued fun and safe travels when you head back home
Adam
June 29th, 2012
2:27 pm
You know what’s crazy? Everyone was so focused on the mandate that now that this thing is law and found to be constitutional, people still have questions that so far I don’t know the answers to.
For example, one person asked me how this law approaches the problem of some health care providers accepting some insurance but not others. I have no answer.
The other one was what’s to stop people from deliberately avoiding the penalty fee AND avoiding getting insurance. So far I’ve had only guesses that you would probably have to jump through a lot of hoops to make that happen on purpose.
I am sure someone knows these answers. I may have to go to healthcare,gov and call someone, but I wonder if anyone knows offhand?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
2:27 pm
This will be a double post, both here and in Bookman’s blog.
It doesn’t take a whole lot to change only one word in a copy/paste.
Just sayin’.
Peadawg
June 29th, 2012
2:28 pm
Looks like Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes are getting a divorce.
Tom and John Travolta can finally be happy together.
Tundra Dude
June 29th, 2012
2:29 pm
Doomy: The cost of health care keeps rising due to a myriad number of reasons- (snipped a long list of baloney)
So we need to imitate Germany or Japan. Both have been able to contain costs.
Check a Price list of common ops, like coronary bypass, or popular scans, CT MRI, or drugs. We’re getting ripped off royally.
The former NEJM editor-babe, Angell, I rhink, sez half our health care $ goes to middle men.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 29th, 2012
2:32 pm
I want to know what’s up in the backrooms of the SCOTUS such as to get John-boy to switch sides. Inquiring minds want to know.
Perhaps Issa could do another failed investigation and restrict testimony only to the things he wants to hear so that he can take some crazy who threatens revolt against the country and encourages violence and try to make him into a conned “hero.”
Amazing how “inquisitive” the cons are…well, except for war crimes, torture and Whitehouse leaks that jeopardize the security of our active operatives in other countries……
Oscar
June 29th, 2012
2:36 pm
Adam
June 29th, 2012
2:09 pm
____________
Preventative care makes the overall costs go up, not down. Cheapest is for no one to get any tests or exams until they get real sick and go to the ER with a terminal disease in the last stages.
Adam
June 29th, 2012
2:36 pm
I want to know what’s up in the backrooms of the SCOTUS such as to get John-boy to switch sides.
Maybe Obama used his voodoo powers to convince him. Or better yet, maybe it was…. BARNEY FRANK
Oscar
June 29th, 2012
2:38 pm
We don’t have a loaw that requires us to buy insurance, we have a loaw that says if we don’t have insurance, we have to pay a tax to the government to reimburese it for the cost to governemnt because of the expense we run up and can’t pay which eventually gets paid in one or or another by the government.
There is a big difference in the two. One would be unconstitutional, the other is not.
Oscar
June 29th, 2012
2:40 pm
Adam
June 29th, 2012
2:36 pm
______
J. Roberts reads the papers and listens to the news. He knew he could not make us go back to pre-existing contitions and life time caps, and he found a constitutional way to make it work. Relying on the commerce clause would not work, and he knew it.
Adam
June 29th, 2012
2:41 pm
Oscar: Preventative care makes the overall costs go up, not down. Cheapest is for no one to get any tests or exams until they get real sick and go to the ER with a terminal disease in the last stages.
My understanding from other studies on the subject is that it does lower overall cost for most things, because it catches certain things early. And despite some items not being cost effective on an item-by-item basis, the average of overall preventative care is not driven up to higher than our current cost trends.
stands for decibels
June 29th, 2012
2:42 pm
Maybe Obama used his voodoo powers to convince him. Or better yet, maybe it was…. BARNEY FRANK
Teh Gheydar?
…naw, everyone knows from readin’ Drudge that it was the epilepsy medication Roberts probably doesn’t take.
Brosephus™
June 29th, 2012
2:48 pm
Raise the damn gasoline tax already. This is ridiculous.
I second the motion…
getalife
June 29th, 2012
2:48 pm
Last chance, Hillary is in Russia trying to stop the slaughter in Syria.
Music thread is up.
Peadawg
June 29th, 2012
2:49 pm
“Raise the damn gasoline tax already. This is ridiculous.”
Jefferson
June 29th, 2012
2:49 pm
This is a 2 year old law, so why now all the crying and laughing ? Failure to plan is the GOP plan to fail.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
2:51 pm
Speaking of the gooey drudgey goodness: THANKS FOR MAKING YESTERDAY 2ND BIGGEST DAY IN DRUDGEREPORT’S 17 YEAR HISTORY! PAGE WAS VIEWED 45,233,974 TIMES, FROM 115 COUNTIRES…
Brosephus™
June 29th, 2012
2:52 pm
With a name like Brosyphllis I thougth jackassery was your real name..
Well, you thought wrong. I also thought that blogs typically had age limits that kept kids away, but alas… You also prove that wrong.
You also need to work on your comedic material. As it stands now, I don’t think an audience would even waste the energy to throw rotten tomatoes at you.
Mary Elizabeth
June 29th, 2012
2:53 pm
Tundra Dude. 12:16 pm
“Mary Elizabeth:
This is so beautifully stated, and inspirational to us living today as to what we must be about, that it must repeated here:
Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address:
(snipped)
He forgot to even mention his (beloved) tariffs from the Southern states. (to enrich his Yankee crony capitalists)
Read some excerpts from The Real Lincoln, by Thomas deLorenzo”
=================================================
Tundra, I prefer to read the words of Lincoln, himself, to understand how his mind worked than the words of Thomas deLorenzo about him.
Many historians have rated Lincoln America’s best president. How many people remember Lincoln today for the dedication he gave our nation, and how many remember deLorenzo? Why not read the work of Carl Sandburg regarding Lincoln? From Wikipedia about Carl Sandburg:
“Carl Sandburg (January 6, 1878 – July 22, 1967) was an American writer and editor, best known for his poetry. He was the recipient of three Pulitzer Prizes: two for his poetry and another for his biography of Abraham Lincoln. H. L. Mencken called Sandburg ‘indubitably an American in every pulse-beat.’” Sandburg supported the Civl Rights Movement and contributed to the NAACP. He lived his final years in North Carolina, in the area of that state from which my father’s people live.
Here is a poem about Abraham Lincoln, upon Lincoln’s death, by poet Walt Whitman, which my father introduced to me as a young person: (Btw, many people said that my father looked much like Lincoln, whom he greatly admired.
O Captain! My Captain!
O Captain! My Captain!
By Walt Whitman 1819–1892 Walt Whitman
O Captain! my Captain! our fearful trip is done,
The ship has weather’d every rack, the prize we sought is won,
The port is near, the bells I hear, the people all exulting,
While follow eyes the steady keel, the vessel grim and daring;
But O heart! heart! heart!
O the bleeding drops of red,
Where on the deck my Captain lies,
Fallen cold and dead.
O Captain! my Captain! rise up and hear the bells;
Rise up—for you the flag is flung—for you the bugle trills,
For you bouquets and ribbon’d wreaths—for you the shores a-crowding,
For you they call, the swaying mass, their eager faces turning;
Here Captain! dear father!
The arm beneath your head!
It is some dream that on the deck,
You’ve fallen cold and dead.
My Captain does not answer, his lips are pale and still,
My father does not feel my arm, he has no pulse nor will,
The ship is anchor’d safe and sound, its voyage closed and done,
From fearful trip the victor ship comes in with object won;
Exult O shores, and ring O bells!
But I with mournful tread,
Walk the deck my Captain lies,
Fallen cold and dead.
godless heathen
June 29th, 2012
2:54 pm
we have to pay a tax to the government to reimburese it for the cost to governemnt because of the expense we run up and can’t pay which eventually gets paid in one or or another by the government.
If someone without insurance gets treated by a Dr or hospital, and doesn’t pay the bill, it is not an expense to the government. It is an expense to the health care provider (HCP). And so, even with ACA in place, the HCP still has to recover the cost and they will pass it on to those that do have insurance. That is one reason that ACA is not going to reduce the cost of insurance or health care.
godless heathen
June 29th, 2012
2:58 pm
until they get real sick and go to the ER with a terminal disease in the last stages.
If you go to the ER with a terminal disease in the last stages, you aren’t going to cost a lot to take care of. A pillow and some morphine will do.
Brosephus™
June 29th, 2012
2:58 pm
Adam @ 1:24
I generally just scroll over the bs, but when it serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever, I think it needs to be called out. Left leaning posters should call it out when it comes from the left, just as right leaning posters should call it out when it comes from the right. I’ve also noticed that “he of microscopic brains” feels that he can make jokes about me. My 3yr old has better cognitive skills than what I’ve seen from him/her today. Anyway, I applaud your effort at trying to keep the discussion at or above the knowledge level of a toddler.
Oscar
June 29th, 2012
2:59 pm
godless heathen
June 29th, 2012
2:54 pm
____
Grady and many other public hospitals are use tax money. Losses wrtten off by private hospitals are tax deductions reducing tax revenues. There are other gernoment moneies and grants from the govet. that eventually are used to cover hospital expenses that go unpaid.
One way or another, unpaid hospital bills add to or reduce govt. revenues. Thus the need for the tax.
Jay
June 29th, 2012
3:02 pm
Godless, that’s true as far as it goes. However, your analysis overlooks the fact that there would be a lot fewer uninsured — 16 percent uninsured nationwide, for example, vs less than 2 percent in Massachusetts. So that alone would drastically reduce the amount of uncompensated care that hospitals have to provide. It might even allow a reduction in the amount of local taxpayer assistance that has to go to Grady Hospital, for example.
In addition, the pool of insured would grow larger, meaning the cost of covering the much smaller number of uninsured could be spread over a larger population, with less impact on each.
Don't Forget
June 29th, 2012
3:05 pm
A dad
I believe this simple point will answer your question. The administration defended the mandate under the commerce clause. But they also said that even if the commerce clause didn’t cover it the power to tax did. Roberts did not go along with the commerce clause argument and would not expand it but he DID feel that it was covered under the power to tax. Hence all the talk about how this is a tax.
The Tax Man
June 29th, 2012
3:07 pm
Adam, here are my best answers but am by no means certain of each…
For example, one person asked me how this law approaches the problem of some health care providers accepting some insurance but not others. I have no answer.
Nothing I’ve heard forces providers to begin accepting insurance they previously did not. Most health care providers dump the ones that don’t pay on time or are so obtuse they aren’t worth the effort.
The other one was what’s to stop people from deliberately avoiding the penalty fee AND avoiding getting insurance. So far I’ve had only guesses that you would probably have to jump through a lot of hoops to make that happen on purpose.
If you don’t qualify for a refund, the IRS won’t come after you for the penalty. Still on the hook for your own Rx bills though. I’m sure someone will devise a way to get around it.
They BOTH suck
June 29th, 2012
3:09 pm
Bloggers, especially the regulars
I want to extend an apology for my part in the exchange that Jm and I had last night.
No need to take any issue that far. I love to prod and joke with the best, however I should have left well enough alone.
Regardless of anyone’s politics and the heated debate, there is a limit and I crossed it.
I will continue to give people hell (no doubt), that will not cease, but will tone down exchanges like I participated in last night.
Peace
Dekalb comments
June 29th, 2012
3:09 pm
Doomy
I guess I have a couple of observations on how increasing the number of insured individuals MAY affect overall costs and premiums. We won’t know until more people can be insured by way of guaranteed issue, more people actually are insured, etc.
Preventive care – ideally our health care system would not be a “sickness” system where people consume services only when they are sick. With mandatory preventive services we SHOULD be able to provide individuals with better guidance on health maintenance as well as catching diseases early.
My former employer now requires every employee to have an annual physical or be subject to a premium/co-pay surcharge. The results are reviewed by a nurse practitioner who engages with the employee on lifestyle changes, etc. I don’t know how successful they have been but focusing on health and not sickness should be a key. By doing so we should gradually reduce the amount of “sickness” care that is consumed.
By getting more people insured and that will include healthy individuals, the risk pool is enlarged. That SHOULD place downward pressure on cost per insured. As a result we SHOULD see at least a leveling off of premiums, etc., at least for a while.
If we actually increase the number of insured and therefore reduce the amount of care that is provided without compensation by physicians, hospitals, clinics, etc. there SHOULD be downward pressure on their costs. If they are able to slowly reduce exposure to uncompensated work, this is supposed to help ease pressure on prices.
Now all of that assumes that more people will actually purchase insurance. Further that individuals will take advantage of a “health” first approach where we try to live healthier lifestyles and catch disease, especially conditions like obesity that drive heart disease, stroke, diabetes, etc. costs earlier. And that the market actually acts according to market principles, i.e. when costs are lower, providers reduce prices.
The Tax Man
June 29th, 2012
3:14 pm
@Dekalb comments
Not sure I totally agree. With most hospitals eating 12-15% of costs now, any additonal monies will go to offset the current shortfall. It will take another spike to actually turn enough profit to even think about reducing the amount of revenue collected, if at all.
Adam
June 29th, 2012
3:19 pm
The Tax Man: Thanks for trying to answer the questions. As it happens, apparently the phone numbers for asking questions depends on the state (as to whether or not one exists, probably, as well). I was given a form to fill out when I attempted to find the contact number, and didn’t feel like filling it out just to get a number to ask questions. I suspect, also, that for my state the agency that is supposed to answer this in my state doesn’t actually exist.
Dekalb comments
June 29th, 2012
3:19 pm
Tax Man @ 3:14
I agree with your assessment. The current shortfall will have to actually be recovered and some upside be in play before those providers can see a leveling off or reduction in uncompensated costs. That’s why my post says “SHOULD”. We are entering somewhat unchartered waters.
A friend of mine in the Dallas area who is a hospital administrator says their uncompensated volumes match yours – somewhere between 11 and 15%. He said if they could even cut that gap in half they would be able to reduce the “surcharge” they charge every paying customer by some percentage points. It isn’t perfect but until we try it we won’t know.
Brosephus™
June 29th, 2012
3:25 pm
They BOTH
No worries. I was laughing so hard at TBG that I really didn’t get too deep into your exchange. We all lose our cool at times. It takes a real man to acknowledge their own errors or slipups. For that, you get much respect from me.
Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people
June 29th, 2012
3:37 pm
Tbs
Good that you saw the error of your ways
Next time you get all jacked up, have a beer
godless heathen
June 29th, 2012
3:41 pm
Jay, 1/2 of the uninsured are here illegally. I bet the Mass. doesn’t have a very high percentage of “undocumented” workers. I don’t think that the number of uninsured across the country will ever approach Mass’s rate, do you?
godless heathen
June 29th, 2012
3:44 pm
Jay In addition, the pool of insured would grow larger, meaning the cost of covering the much smaller number of uninsured could be spread over a larger population, with less impact on each.
Why will the pool grow? Because of the $691 penalty (tax)? It’s a whole lot cheaper to just pay the “tax” and go merrily on your uninsured way, if you were the kind of person that was uninsured before.
Adam
June 29th, 2012
3:45 pm
Jay, 1/2 of the uninsured are here illegally. I bet the Mass. doesn’t have a very high percentage of “undocumented” workers.
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Adam
June 29th, 2012
3:46 pm
godless: It’s a whole lot cheaper to just pay the “tax” and go merrily on your uninsured way, if you were the kind of person that was uninsured before.
Not if you qualify for the credits, which most uninsured do.
Jay
June 29th, 2012
3:48 pm
Godless, having spent some time up there (my sister lives in Quincy), I believe there are more undocumenteds than you might think. They’re just less obvious. A lot of them are Irish — my niece almost married one. And as I recall, Obama’s aunt lives up there, correct?
godless heathen
June 29th, 2012
3:59 pm
Obama’s aunt lives up there, correct?
LOL!
We shall see how this turns out. My money is on this ACA needing a lot of fixing and the fixes won’t help. Have a good w/e.
godless heathen
June 29th, 2012
4:03 pm
Not if you qualify for the credits, which most uninsured do.
And the mandate is going to affect those folks? Me thinks not. If the point is to give everyone that can’t afford insurance, free insurance then give them free insurance. Like medicaide.
They BOTH suck
June 29th, 2012
4:13 pm
Some can never leave good enough alone, especially when they were in the mix
Oh well, I tried
They BOTH suck
June 29th, 2012
4:15 pm
My assessment about you didn’t change one bit, just should not have been expressed as it was
gm
June 29th, 2012
6:22 pm
Poor firemens in Colorado, risking their lives for this country yet most of them do not have health care, yet the Anti Americans on the right are fighting health care and dont have a plan of there own.
The right are a disgrace to this country, once middle class whites open there eyes, they are finish””””
Adam
June 29th, 2012
7:06 pm
So…. Anyone still think Obama is not LEADING? That he is IN OVER HIS HEAD?
Take that old messaging and shove it. You’re DONE now fellas. All you’ve got is TAX, GAYS, GUNS, and ABORTION. And you’re losing on nearly all of them slowly but surely.
I'm not paying your "tax" - Page 17 - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
June 30th, 2012
2:17 am
[...] [...]
MightyRighty
June 30th, 2012
11:00 am
Adam
June 29th, 2012
7:06 pm
So…. Anyone still think Obama is not LEADING? That he is IN OVER HIS HEAD?
Me. The man remains clueless. Just because the Supreme Court ruled Obamacare was a tax makes Obama even more stupid than I thought he was. He still claims it’s not a tax while the bill contains 21 new and increased taxes. He can’t put two sentences togeather without be disingenuous. Most of the american people are not as stupid (present company excluded) as he thinks they are, This November we the people will fundamentally change the marxist path big ears has put us on.
MightyRighty
June 30th, 2012
11:05 am
gm
June 29th, 2012
6:22 pm
Poor firemens in Colorado, risking their lives for this country yet most of
If we had an adequate number of fire fighting aircraft those firemen would be a lot safer. But they only have a few, five I think, to fight fires in three states. The Obama defense budget will further reduce our ability to fight fires from the air. BTW, they do have health insurance.
Adam
June 30th, 2012
5:20 pm
It’s not a tax on the middle class. Which is what he said. Not “it’s not a tax.” The whole bill isn’t a tax anyway, overall it contains more tax credits than tax increases in dollars and who those are expected to apply to. No middle class tax, just a tax on the Mooching 2%. Why are you guys all of the sudden IN SUPPORT of mooching?
catlady
June 30th, 2012
6:32 pm
I welcome the changes. Right now, I am paying for the uninsured anyway. Hospitals don’t provide “charity care” for free–it comes from those who are insured.
My Teaparty neighbor, aged 56 and 350 lbs and a total couch potato, is loudly against “Obamacare”. He believes he should not be forced to buy insurance or pay the penalty. However, when he goes to the hospital, and he will have to more and more often as time goes by, he files for charity care. Why would he want to give that up? The thing is, people like me who work a full job for 40+ years so far, pay for his “indigent” care through increased out of pocket, policy costs, and copays. He needs some skin in the game!
BYW, his mother (who never worked a day in her life) got SS from her deceased husband. She became too difficult to care for, and went in to the nursing home. There, by Medicaid, she stayed 12 years till she died (at about $3000 per month) However, somehow, her house was never taken and sold to repay for her care, and that is where he lives. You and I paid for that, too.