Will the Supremes be ObamaCare’s real ‘death panel’?
It is, if you think about it, kind of ironic.
As ObamaCare was being passed, conservatives complained that the entire U.S. health care industry was being remade in secret with the results being “crammed down their throats” by a majority allegedly uninterested in negotiation. Little to none of that was true, but in this debate truth had been pummeled, kicked and left to die in an alleyway months earlier anyway.
Now those same conservatives eagerly await while the entire U.S. health care industry is remade in true secrecy, by unchallengeable edict issued from private chambers by nine robed figures haughtily and altogether immune to public opinion.
Once the announcement is “handed down” — a telling phrase, that one — sometime around 10:15, I’ll post a running analysis as I speed-read through the opinion, much as we handled the immigration ruling earlier this week.
It’ll be days before the dust settles on this one, and months and even years before the wounds from it heal. It has the potential to reshuffle the political environment as well as the health-care system, and to permanently alter the image and role of the Supreme Court as well.
Other than that, it’s not all that important.
– Jay Bookman
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379 comments Add your comment
real john
June 28th, 2012
8:54 am
Jay:
Lets not forget how Obamacare was passed. How many kickbacks and back room deals were worked. Just look at how many DEMOCRATS had to be strongarmed into voting for this.
But I guess the end justify the means…right Jay?
Stonethrower
June 28th, 2012
8:54 am
Conservative court will vote it down. Is there any question about how this vote will go?
carlosgvv
June 28th, 2012
8:55 am
MiltonMan – 8:21
We have MANY children in GA suffering from malnutrition. Guess you and your compassionate conservative friends will just have to pray a little harder.
Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
June 28th, 2012
8:55 am
I expect 60 pages here by noon.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 28th, 2012
8:56 am
“They don’t even mention the medical device tax and new investments tax from obamacare ”
yeah, TAXES make them SOOOOOOOOO different!! forget about what they cover and how they function, it’s the TAXES that are important
laugh.
effing.
riot.
St Simons - he-ne-ha
June 28th, 2012
8:57 am
i hope they throw the silly mandate out.
then we can remove the even silly-er age requirement on medicare.
but no matter what happens, we’re not going back.
there is no future in the past.
Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people
June 28th, 2012
8:58 am
Sorry usinuk, your view doesn’t hold any water
Read up
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/292135/ezra-klein-s-wishful-thinking-douglas-holtz-eakin
Talking Head
June 28th, 2012
8:58 am
“Where is our moral compass? Can we not agree the health insurance industry isn’t “for” us, it is “for” making money, plain and simple. I’m not saying anything is wrong with making money, but our people are dying, and some of us don’t seem to care. What happened to us?”
The explosion in the cost of health care is directly related to the creation of Medicare & Medicaid. The projected costs of these programs were astronomically understated and the Gov has been trying to recoup by cutting payments to providers and cutting benefits to beneficiaries. In turn the providers increase the charges to all, in hopes that managed care payors make up the difference, in turn the insurance companies increase the premiums to their plan holders.
Another good intention by our Gov gone wrong, because they are not God.
Steve - USA ("None of the Above")
June 28th, 2012
8:59 am
Maybe we should just wait for the decision…….
Peadawg
June 28th, 2012
8:59 am
People like Bill really scare me.
stands for decibels
June 28th, 2012
9:00 am
As long as I have my job, I’ll have coverage, so this decision doesn’t affect me much other than me giving even more of my money to insurance companies in the hopes they don’t drop me or my family because I didn’t spit my watermelon seeds over my right shoulder or something else crazy like that.
yep. Me too.
Jay
June 28th, 2012
9:00 am
Republicans didn’t have any input in Obamacare Jay. Thats a flat out lie on your part…
No, Joseph, the flatout lie comes from your side of the debate. Obama ran against the idea of a mandate during the Democratic primaries and campaign. However, he adopted it after the election as a means of reaching out to Republicans, who after all had originated and championed the idea (see RomneyCare.) He also dropped the idea of a public option, angering a lot of liberals, again in hopes of wooing Republican support. He met repeatedly with Sen. Charles Grassley, leading Republican member of the Senate Finance Committee, to negotiate.
Grassley had been a longtime supporter of the mandate, going as far back as 1993. As recently as June 2009, he was still supportive of the mandate, pointing out:
“But when it comes to states requiring it for automobile insurance, the principle then ought to lie the same way for health insurance. Because everybody has some health insurance costs, and if you aren’t insured, there’s no free lunch. Somebody else is paying for it….I believe that there is a bipartisan consensus to have individual mandates.”
Or as Mitt Romney put it in 2010, defending the mandate:
“[R]ight now in this country, people that don’t have health insurance go to the hospital if they get a serious illness, and they get treated for free by government. My plan says no, they can’t do that. No more free riders. People have to take personal responsibility. I consider it a conservative plan.”
Republicans wanted the mandate. Obama gave them that. The Republicans wanted to make sure that illegal immigrants would not be eligible. Obama gave them that, agreeing to require proof of citizenship before coverage. Republicans wanted to make sure that abortions could not be covered. Obama gave them that. They wanted the public option taken out. Obama gave them that. John McCain, Eric Cantor and others talked of using high-risk pools to deal with pre-existing conditions. Obama put that in the bill. They wanted the ability to sell health insurance across state lines. Obama gave them that, allowing creation of interstate health-care compacts among states.
All that and more, and still the Republicans refused, making it clear they would blackball any of their members who dared to support a bill that contained so much of their own ideas.
JamVet
June 28th, 2012
9:01 am
If states want to implement this law go for it. But the federal gubmint doing it is not within reason…
I have never understood this position.
Firstly, it indicates to me a staggering ignorance about the United States Constitution and the complimentary roles of the two levels of government. As addressed countless times via case law and SCOTUS decisions over two plus centuries.
For arguments sake, lets for a moment contend that this legislation is unjust, ineffective and immoral. It has been implemented on the people of Georgia by the federal government.
But the strange argument favored by the Uncle Sam haters is that the exact same legislation passed at the state level is fine.
This makes NO sense at all..
Doggone/GA
June 28th, 2012
9:02 am
“but evidently those things are AAAALLLLLLL preventable and they should have stopped doing whatever it was they were doing to catch those diseases”
And, as I am wont to say whenever this comes up: Jim Fixx died of a heart attack
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 28th, 2012
9:03 am
Jm –
the National Review doesn’t agree???
wow!! next thing, you’ll be citing the Heritage Foundation!!
Lord Help Us
June 28th, 2012
9:04 am
‘The explosion in the cost of health care is directly related to the creation of Medicare & Medicaid.’
Where does this stuff come from…
ty webb
June 28th, 2012
9:05 am
and for the record, I agree that the mandate is a conservative idea, and I think it’s a good idea.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 28th, 2012
9:05 am
LHU – 9:04 – the phrase “where the sun don’t shine” springs to mind …
Grasshopper
June 28th, 2012
9:10 am
“Now those same conservatives eagerly await while the entire U.S. health care industry is remade in true secrecy, by unchallengeable edict issued from private chambers by nine robed figures haughtily and altogether immune to public opinion.”
Such overblown hyperbole…give me a break.
JamVet
June 28th, 2012
9:10 am
Joseph just got owned for writing yet more particularly odious misinformation. (At 8:24)
He serves a very valuable, albeit unwitting, role.
That of being a punching bag for the voice of informed truth…
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 28th, 2012
9:10 am
totally off-top and appropros of … well … nothing
if you have an hour to kill and want to watch one of the best performances ever, give this a go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd8cnPUMPF0
(or, be like me and just listen to it in the background)
Paul
June 28th, 2012
9:11 am
godless heathen
“Yeah, like people exercising their God-given right to not provide for themselves and their families and when they get sick, having other people pay for it.
Freedom is grand, isn’t it?
Like people exercising their God-given right to not accept a freely offered education, to not work to provide for themselves and their families, and when they get hungry, having other people buy food for them.
Freedom like that?”
For some people, yes. But the real issue is, those who cite the examples you did are critical of people for making those decisions. But when it comes to health care, they go hardcore over the rights of people to be irresponsible.
Care to explain why, as I don’t understand it (except maybe it has something to do with Obama?)
ty webb
Okay. How about this guess?
“I know something you don’t so I’m special”?
Cause frankly, ty, that’s how it comes across.
Why not lay it out like “Romneycare is a, b, c. Obamacare is a, x and y. The significant differences are 1 and 2″?
Jay
June 28th, 2012
9:12 am
“Such overblown hyperbole…give me a break.
What part isn’t true, Grasshopper?
Joseph
June 28th, 2012
9:13 am
Jay:
How many amendments did Republicans get in put in to Obamacare Jay. 0! Grassley only met with Obama at best twice and was insured no Republican amendments would go into his bill… End of argument.. You lie!!!
Bob Loblaw
June 28th, 2012
9:14 am
Jay is amped today! I love it. Eat ‘em up, man!
I just hope they let me keep my pre-existing coverage that this Act let me buy. 11 insurance companies turned me down. Something ain’t right about that. My doc says but for my “condition,” that I am exceptionally healthy. I need insurance. Got a wife and kids I need to stay healthy for.
Peadawg
June 28th, 2012
9:14 am
Joseph
June 28th, 2012
9:13 am
Bless your heart
ByteMe - Political thug
June 28th, 2012
9:15 am
Joseph
June 28th, 2012
9:13 am
Bless your heart
He still thinks that’s a compliment.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 28th, 2012
9:15 am
Pdawg – 9:14 – (chuckling)
Jay
June 28th, 2012
9:15 am
“The explosion in the cost of health care is directly related to the creation of Medicare & Medicaid.”
Interesting, then, that the cost of health care is so much lower in countries that in effect have Medicare and Medicaid for everyone.
Joseph
June 28th, 2012
9:15 am
JamVet:
I easily won that argument because of a simple thing called facts. Republicans were shut out of the process. Jay knows that. he bases his simple thoughts on assumptions. Not facts… Now wipe the drool off your keyboard and go back to bed…
ty webb
June 28th, 2012
9:15 am
Paul,
asking for a rather glaring difference between the two comes across as “I know something you don’t so I’m special”?…I suspect people already know(or at least I hope they do) the huge difference between the two…hence they always use the “pretty much the same” qualifier. I just wanted to hear it from them.
ByteMe - Political thug
June 28th, 2012
9:16 am
I just hope they let me keep my pre-existing coverage that this Act let me buy. 11 insurance companies turned me down. Something ain’t right about that. My doc says but for my “condition,” that I am exceptionally healthy. I need insurance. Got a wife and kids I need to stay healthy for.
Conservatives think you should just go bankrupt and die instead. As long as embryos are protected instead.
ByteMe - Political thug
June 28th, 2012
9:18 am
I easily won that argument …
You should see a doctor about that ego. It looks abnormally swollen.
Jeffrey
June 28th, 2012
9:18 am
I think it will be upheld in its entirety and should be. I think there are two political lessons here; one, this case was brought by red states, not a person or group that are claiming infringement on their constitutional rights, and two the republicans should have debated in good faith when they had a chance, I guess this is just another one of their games of chicken, it certainly isn’t rational legislating.
TaxPayer
June 28th, 2012
9:19 am
All that and more, and still the Republicans refused, making it clear they would blackball any of their members who dared to support Obama.
a bill that contained so much of their own ideas.ty webb
June 28th, 2012
9:19 am
Paul,
and I’m not claiming to be special…the difference was taught to all of us in a grade school, or maybe not until high school(though, that’d be quiet sad), Civics class.
Grasshopper
June 28th, 2012
9:19 am
Mainly the part about the Justices ‘remaking’ healthcare Jay.
They are doing nothing of the sort. They may, or may not, uphold a law that itself remakes healthcare and tell the Congress and the President that their attempts have, or have not, passed constitutional muster.
And the ‘haughtily’ part. They are only haughty if you disagree, correct?
East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)
June 28th, 2012
9:20 am
stands for decibels
June 28th, 2012
7:59 am
…bad throw, skips near the dugout, can he make it home?
************************************************************
Here’s the throw to the plate,
it’s gonna be close,
holy cow I think he’s gonna make it
STOP RIGHT THERE
Before we go any farther,
I gotta know right now,
Do you love me?
Will you love me forever?
Talking Head
June 28th, 2012
9:21 am
“Interesting, then, that the cost of health care is so much lower in countries that in effect have Medicare and Medicaid for everyone”
I guess that’s true, although those same countries aren’t the ones spurring innovations in new medical technologies or pharmaceuticals, have the best medical schools in the world, provide the best cancer treatments in the world, etc.
TaxPayer
June 28th, 2012
9:21 am
Joseph declares himself the weiner.
Adam
June 28th, 2012
9:22 am
Two Republicans are sitting in when they read the decision, so they can scurry out and deliver a live response. John Boehner says “no spiking of the football” if it’s overturned, in whole or in part. We shall see if these two follow his “lead.”
If they don’t, does that mean Boehner “failed to lead”?
Nah, you can only say that about Obama. Because IOKIFYAR.
Adam
June 28th, 2012
9:22 am
Other than that, I am waiting for the decision for comment.
Jay
June 28th, 2012
9:22 am
Actually, Talking, health care in those countries is at least comparable and in some ways superior to that in the United States.
Donovan
June 28th, 2012
9:23 am
Yeah, the decision is not even out yet and this blog today is a liberal rant against Republicans, big business and middle class suppression.
Lord knows how you all will react to Obama’s defeat in November.
The Supremes will more than likely tell America that the Democrats cannot ram legislation down the throats of the people by unconstitutional means and cannot force its people to swallow their agenda.
It was wrong from the beginning and it will once again show how Democrats operate when they enjoy the majority of rule.
Slap down is painful and truly embarrassing.
TaxPayer
June 28th, 2012
9:23 am
I guess that’s true, although those same countries aren’t the ones spurring innovations in new medical technologies or pharmaceuticals, have the best medical schools in the world, provide the best cancer treatments in the world, etc.
I don’t see that it matters much if you live in a country that has a cure for cancer if the ones in need cannot afford it.
ByteMe - Political thug
June 28th, 2012
9:24 am
although those same countries aren’t the ones spurring innovations in new medical technologies or pharmaceuticals
South Korea is way ahead of us on stem-cell research.
And since when is it OUR job to overpay for medical care so that we can spur innovation to be offered cheaper to the rest of the world? Where are your priorities, man?
Adam
June 28th, 2012
9:24 am
Lord knows how you all will react to Obama’s defeat in November.
Saved for the “I Told You So” thread in November.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 28th, 2012
9:24 am
“I easily won that argument because of a simple thing called facts. ”
considering the Dems pulled everything that the GOP found objectionable, they didn’t NEED to make amendments
then, there are the GOP ideas that were included in the bill
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/02/five_compronises_in_health_car.html
“But one good way is to look at the GOP’s “Solutions for America” homepage, which lays out its health-care plan in some detail. It has four planks. All of them — yes, you read that right — are in the Senate health-care bill.”
(since I know you can’t be asked to actually READ anything that refutes you)
JamVet
June 28th, 2012
9:25 am
I easily won that argument because of a simple thing called facts. Republicans were shut out of the process.
BWAHAHAHAHA!
What a rube.
You just got knocked out in the first round and the crowd goes crazy!
DOWN GOES FRAZIER!!
Adam
June 28th, 2012
9:25 am
Slap down is painful and truly embarrassing.
Oh, I am ESPECIALLY saving THIS part
Rickster
June 28th, 2012
9:26 am
I wonder if Jay will have the same opinion of those “nine robed figures haughtily and altogether immune to public opinion” if they should uphold ObamaCare. Chances are, he’ll think they’re the greatest legal minds in the history of the world.
Should the Supreme Court be the “death panel” for ObamaCare? Yes, they should.
Will the Supreme Court be the “death panel” for ObamaCare? I sure hope so.
Williebkind
June 28th, 2012
9:26 am
“As ObamaCare was being passed, conservatives complained that the entire U.S. health care industry was being remade in secret with the results being “crammed down their throats” by a majority allegedly uninterested in negotiation. Little to none of that was true”
Jay can you qualify that with truth?
TaxPayer
June 28th, 2012
9:26 am
Medicare costs soar, 30 million are thrown out with the bath water, insurance companies are once again free to rake in obscene profits and deny coverage and Republicans shout from the rooftops, “We WON!”
Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
June 28th, 2012
9:26 am
Slap down is painful and truly embarrassing
Not for me. Is it for you? Or is that what you want to see in the liberals today?
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 28th, 2012
9:26 am
Talking – “although those same countries aren’t the ones spurring innovations in new medical technologies or pharmaceuticals, have the best medical schools in the world, provide the best cancer treatments in the world, etc.”
speaking as someone who lives in one of those countries, all I can say is BOLLOCKS.
the UK spends less per person, has a better infant mortality, has a better life expectancy AND better cancer survival rates.
East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)
June 28th, 2012
9:27 am
Lord knows how you all will react to Obama’s defeat in November
*****************************************************
One more time. Look at the electoral map…..
http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/ecalculator#?battleground
carlosgvv
June 28th, 2012
9:27 am
Stands – 8:36
Since it’s the Republicans who have made it 100% clear they will not, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, raise taxes on the rich, then, yes, I did mean to single them out. However, I’m well aware the Democrats are no angels in this. They are just the lesser of the evils.
John Birch
June 28th, 2012
9:27 am
Patient protection okay, but affordable care??? What a horrendous joke and misnomer that is. The reality is that the vast progress that has been made in medicine has made it unaffordable. As a nation we don’t produce enough to provide a nice house, fine car, and world class health care to every citizen and illegal alien.
A dad
June 28th, 2012
9:28 am
I look beyond Obamacare to the possible extension of its mandate to other areas. If the federal gov’t can require citizens to purchase healthcare or be fied, heading down that slippery slope, where could it raise its head next?
A more logical (but much tougher) solution would be to revise the M twins (Medicaid and Medicare). I have a good friend who works as a pharmacist at a large box store, and she sees people come in for scripts using Medicaid, with their iPhones, getting their elaborate nails done twice a week, driving luxury cars (the store has a drive-thru), smoking cigarattes, and even trading their EBT cards for cash. Obviously, someone who fits the above definition (and yes, they represent about 25-30% of the patients at this store’s phrmacy) AND gets gov’t assistance, well, lets just say the sysyem obviously needs a tweaking and there seems to be a considerable potential for savings, savings which could be used towards establishing a more efficient healthcaresystem, but alas, I expect to be vilified by claims of racism, 1%, etc.
But to begin trying to come up with a solution to the problem (a rare thing on Bookie’s blog to be sure) rather than simply name calling, let’s begin with the understanding that the healthcare industry, like another other business, is IN business to make a profit. The problem nowadays here int he U.S. is profit is seen as as “today/right now” thing rather than a long-term view. Make 25% profit, get my 50m bonus, etc., rather than, say, a solid 8-10% return over 10, 15, 20 years or more.
Back to my usual position, i.e., we are hosed regardless of who wins in November, the only question being is who you want to do the hosing. Want to take back our gov’t? Simple answer. vote EVERY incumbent out come November regardless of political party. The remaining 50% just might get the messageand if they don’t, get rid of them the next time around as well. Since or politicians no longer serve the electorate, but instead bow to the respective special interest masters and the extremist “base” of their party, anyone have any other idea to get DC’s attention?
Will check back in about 4-5 hours.
Peadawg
June 28th, 2012
9:29 am
Adam
June 28th, 2012
9:22 am
Yet you comment at 9:22, 9:24, and 9:25
Adam
June 28th, 2012
9:29 am
Chances are, he’ll think they’re the greatest legal minds in the history of the world.
They would be if they upheld it, because it is constitutional and even the founding fathers, who passed three mandates into law during the tenures of the first three presidents OF THIS COUNTRY, did not have any objections on Constitutional grounds to said mandates.
So nice try. Regardless of the court’s decision, the thing IS Constitutional, whether te activist ones win the battle or not.
ty webb
June 28th, 2012
9:29 am
so Jamvet is now the “Mills Lane” of the blog?
carlosgvv
June 28th, 2012
9:29 am
UsinUK
In you opinion, is the British politicial system in any danger of being bought and paid for by Big Business as American politics has been?
zeke
June 28th, 2012
9:29 am
The only duties of the Supremes are to make sure that Congress and the President adhere to the Constitution and do not put in place any agenda that violates it! They are not to make law, just rule whether any law is Constitutional or NOT! Rowe was a misstep as they made law, a duty given only to Congress! In this case, their duty is to kick this left wing unconstitutional power grab to the curb! Forcing businesses to provide insurance for employees! Forcing insurance companies to lose money covering everyone regardless of circumstances! Forcing every citizen to buy insurance or pay a tax! Hopefully in November we will change the direction of the country back to what it is Constitutionally supposed to be! All unelected czars will be fired! No more socialist agenda laws! Removal of ALL ILLEGAL INVADERS INCLUDING THEIR BRATS BORN HERE! Review of and an honest interpretation of the Constitution and all Amendments! And the firing of OBOZO the socialist inept moron, and, the removal of every democrat up for election! Just look at the scum! Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, Shumer, Boxer, Feinstein, Clyburn and many more! Left wing socialist all and must be fired!
Bruno
June 28th, 2012
9:32 am
Yeah, like people exercising their God-given right to not provide for themselves and their families and when they get sick, having other people pay for it.
Out of curiosity, Paul, what do you expect to change under the ACA?? Maybe you’re one of those rubes who fell for the specious “free rider” argument.
If people hated the mandate because they didn’t want gov’t telling them what to do, I can only imagine what their reaction would be to the ’solutions’ for those two items.
And while you’re at it, Paul, maybe you can expand your imagination a little and realize that every solution in life doesn’t have to be a top-down gov’t solution. Ultimately, people have to be responsible for their own health. There are many ways to encourage/achieve that without govt. programs.
JamVet
June 28th, 2012
9:32 am
ty, it was the inimitable Howard Cosell who made that famous call…
Adam
June 28th, 2012
9:32 am
Peadawg: Actually I meant comment on the decision. But yes, I broke my own statement in my 9:29a response to Rickster. You called me out too soon, as the comments I made at two of the timestamps you mentioned were about other things, and my comment BEFORE I said I wouldn’t comment doesn’t count in your callout.
But, you know, keep score if you like. I’ll just take it as “OMG SHUT UP, YOU’RE ANNNOYINNNNNG MEEEEE” whine.
Paul
June 28th, 2012
9:32 am
ty webb
Now I understand your point. Thanks.
It was a bit confusing, as you said later you support the mandate, yet your initial question, if I recall correctly, was to Normal, who also is, I believe, more supportive than not.
Williebkind
June 28th, 2012
9:33 am
Jay how many pages was ObamaCare, what was in it. It took you a year to learn about it. Just like Pelosi said,”We must pass it before we know what is in it.” That alone is reason enough not to pass it.
Aquagirl
June 28th, 2012
9:33 am
I have a good friend who works as a pharmacist
What is with the fright-wingers and their “friends” assailed by welfare cheats all day? Yeah right, buddy.
Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people
June 28th, 2012
9:34 am
Usinuk
Douglas Holtz-eakin has lots of cred
You, not so much
Peadawg
June 28th, 2012
9:34 am
Adam, you’re so fun to mess with. I can always count on getting a reaction.
ty webb
June 28th, 2012
9:35 am
Paul,
sorry, I should clarify, I somewhat support the idea of a mandate…but definitely not the one in “Obamacare”.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 28th, 2012
9:35 am
“In you opinion, is the British politicial system in any danger of being bought and paid for by Big Business as American politics has been?”
it’s sooooooooo different here – general elections aren’t scheduled – they just have to be held within a specific period of time – 5 years – of the last election (in other words, if Cameron wanted to, he could call for a general election tomorrow). Then, the PM has to ask the Queen to dissolve Parliament – after that, he has 17 working days until the election.
SO, all that to say, you don’t have to pay skadzillions of dollars to buy air time and run for office – it’s a lot faster – and a lot more local (since it’s a smaller country)
Joseph
June 28th, 2012
9:35 am
JamVet:
Again show me an amendment that the GOP was able to include. There is none which proves Jay was a lie. He stated in his ridiculous tripe that Obamacare was “crammed down their throats” by a majority allegedly uninterested in negotiation. Little to none of that was true. It was true and there no one he could prove otherwise. Remember when Obama stated that Republicans can come along for the ride but have to ride in the back of the bus. That’s what he meant. The people don’t want this monstrosity and the GOP don’t want this monstrosity. Republicans had absolutely no input in Obamacare. The blood his on his hands…
Talking Head
June 28th, 2012
9:36 am
“Actually, Talking, health care in those countries is at least comparable and in some ways superior to that in the United States.”
Oh like the WHO (obviously not the band) which takes into consideration murder/homicide rates into account for stats like infant mortalitly?
Look, CMS represents roughly 50-55% of all healthcare spending in this country while private insurance rep 35%. We do have the highest spending in the world, hell CMS by itself pays more on a per GDP basis than any other country. CMS was poorly designed and needs a make over, to deny that it isn’t a significant driver of our healthcare costs is lunacy.
Paul
June 28th, 2012
9:36 am
talking head
“I guess that’s true, although those same countries aren’t the ones spurring innovations in new medical technologies or pharmaceuticals, have the best medical schools in the world, provide the best cancer treatments in the world, etc.”
Putting aside the accuracy of that (which Jay and others addressed) and just focusing on things like innovation, new technology, medical school quality, etc.
How and why would any of that change if we paid premiums not to 1500 or so insurance companies with different rules on reimbursements, patient care, etc. and instead paid premiums to one entity with lower overhead costs?
Cynthia Tucker needs someone to rub her feet
June 28th, 2012
9:37 am
Jay, your next job is calling……
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 28th, 2012
9:37 am
“Douglas Holtz-eakin has lots of cred – You, not so much”
let’s see … I offer neutral publications to support my posts … you post partisan ones.
and you think *I* lack credibility???
laugh.
effing.
riot.
you’re on a biscuit today.
JamVet
June 28th, 2012
9:37 am
I find it very interesting how Willie wants others information to be corroborated, verified and qualified.
Yet I have NEVER ONCE seen him do that very thing.
NOT ONE TIME.
EVER.
Though he has been challenged many times to do so.
Do as I say, not as I do – the modus operandi of most of our right wing bloggers here…
eddy
June 28th, 2012
9:37 am
……but if the Supremes rule in favor of Obamacare, Jay will be back touting how insightful, intelligent, and a miraculous step for universal healthcare for anyone and everyone.
Adam
June 28th, 2012
9:37 am
Peadawg: Adam, you’re so fun to mess with. I can always count on getting a reaction.
That kind of “oh I meant to do that so I could get you to respond” reverse psychology maneuver isn’t going to get me to shut up either, but again, nice try.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 28th, 2012
9:37 am
I have a good friend who works as a pharmacist at a large box store, and she sees people come in for scripts using Medicaid, with their iPhones, getting their elaborate nails done twice a week, driving luxury cars (the store has a drive-thru), smoking cigarattes, and even trading their EBT cards for cash.
My girlfriend’s hairdresser’s husband has an uncle that used to work with a guy that knew someone who was standing in line at the Whole Foods behind this huge __________ lady and she had 14 grocery carts filled with lobsters, cigarettes, beer, T-Bone steaks, prom dresses and she was paying for all of it with food stamps.
Paul
June 28th, 2012
9:38 am
Williebekind
““As ObamaCare was being passed, conservatives complained that the entire U.S. health care industry was being remade in secret with the results being “crammed down their throats” by a majority allegedly uninterested in negotiation. Little to none of that was true”
Jay can you qualify that with truth?”
If you come in on page four of a thread, you may want to read the first three pages to see if your question’s been asked and answered.
Joseph
June 28th, 2012
9:39 am
Maybe democrats can come along for the ride. They just have to ride in the back of the bus…
Bruno
June 28th, 2012
9:39 am
Freedom isn’t free. While you consider yourself free not having to pay for others, there are those like me who take up your slack. Unlike you, I can’t go without insurance coverage since I have a wife and child that I prefer to have covered.
Brosephus–I feel for you, but unfortunately under the ACA, costs will be going up, not down. I’m sure you’re smart enough to understand that.
Adam
June 28th, 2012
9:39 am
Talking Head: Look, CMS represents roughly 50-55% of all healthcare spending in this country while private insurance rep 35%. We do have the highest spending in the world, hell CMS by itself pays more on a per GDP basis than any other country. CMS was poorly designed and needs a make over, to deny that it isn’t a significant driver of our healthcare costs is lunacy.
You remind me of a guy who took his computer in to be worked on and starting talking about USB ports and hard drives without a clue what they actually were. I can’t even replicate the conversation, but it sounded a bit like what you just said… something along the lines of “my hard drive is fried” when he meant the whole computer box as though that was the “hard drive.”
JamVet
June 28th, 2012
9:40 am
Again show me an amendment that the GOP was able to include.
Again???
Is this part two of your pas de une?
LOL at you.
You get caught lying and then change the lie.
Too funny…
Joseph
June 28th, 2012
9:40 am
I hope the court upholds all of it. It would be great fro Republicans to run on repeal because poll after poll shows the public hates it…
Peadawg
June 28th, 2012
9:40 am
“isn’t going to get me to shut up either”
I’m counting on that.
Speak boy. Speak.
Joseph
June 28th, 2012
9:40 am
JamVet/Jay:
I’m waiting….
Adam
June 28th, 2012
9:40 am
Bruno: I feel for you, but unfortunately under the ACA, costs will be going up, not down. I’m sure you’re smart enough to understand that.
This argument is similar to the “Clinton never had a surplus because the deficit was still going up” arguments.
They BOTH suck
June 28th, 2012
9:41 am
Bruno
Cost: You are probably correct, but that would be different from the last 30 yrs in terms of cost, exactly how?
Paul
June 28th, 2012
9:41 am
carlosgvv
“Since it’s the Republicans who have made it 100% clear they will not, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, raise taxes on the rich, ”
Just as Republicans shifted on Obamacare from “repeal it!” to “we’ll replace it, ummm… we’ll keep lots of it” they’ve shifted on tax increases, too.
Except now the phrase is “we’ll eliminate deductions…. bring more people in…. bring in more revenue….”
In other words, somebodies at that upper level are gonna see their taxes increase.
Adam
June 28th, 2012
9:41 am
Peadawg: I’m counting on that.
And I’m counting on you to continue to pretend you’re not frustrated that your actual tactic isn’t working.
Don't Forget
June 28th, 2012
9:42 am
The vast majority go toward treating conditions which are preventable.
Preventable? No, you can reduce the risk but there’s still risk. You can lead a very healthy lifestyle and still get hypertension, coronary artery disease, high cholesterol, cancer, peripheral arterial disease, glaucoma, etc. And there are plenty of serious diseases that have no association with lifestyle whatsoever.
Peadawg
June 28th, 2012
9:42 am
Good boy. Here’s a treat.
USMC
June 28th, 2012
9:42 am
“…Little to none of that was true…”–JAY “Pinocchio” BOOKMAN :—-)
Adam
June 28th, 2012
9:42 am
Paul: In other words, somebodies at that upper level are gonna see their taxes increase.
Not necessarily. They do seem to think they can get revenue by taxing the poor more.
ty webb
June 28th, 2012
9:43 am
watching all segments of the media run to their respective corners will be even more exciting than the actual ruling…Grab a beer, this is going to be a site to see.