Will the Supremes be ObamaCare’s real ‘death panel’?

It is, if you think about it, kind of ironic.

As ObamaCare was being passed, conservatives complained that the entire U.S. health care industry was being remade in secret with the results being “crammed down their throats” by a majority allegedly uninterested in negotiation. Little to none of that was true, but in this debate truth had been pummeled, kicked and left to die in an alleyway months earlier anyway.

Now those same conservatives eagerly await while the entire U.S. health care industry is remade in true secrecy, by unchallengeable edict issued from private chambers by nine robed figures haughtily and altogether immune to public opinion.

Once the announcement is “handed down” — a telling phrase, that one — sometime around 10:15, I’ll post a running analysis as I speed-read through the opinion, much as we handled the immigration ruling earlier this week.

It’ll be days before the dust settles on this one, and months and even years before the wounds from it heal. It has the potential to reshuffle the political environment as well as the health-care system, and to permanently alter the image and role of the Supreme Court as well.

Other than that, it’s not all that important.

– Jay Bookman

379 comments Add your comment

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
7:57 am

a running analysis as I speed-read through the opinion

Jay, your candor is noted, and appreciated.

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
7:58 am

Other than that, it’s not all that important.

Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like “My American Cousin”?

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
7:58 am

They’re sending the runner, he’s diving into third…

ty webb

June 28th, 2012
7:58 am

unless they rule like jay wants them to…then everything’s okay.

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
7:59 am

…bad throw, skips near the dugout, can he make it home?

Peadawg

June 28th, 2012
7:59 am

I can’t wait for the decision either way…looking forward to the comments later today on here.

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
7:59 am

nope. (sorry. Always wanted to try that.)

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
8:00 am

then everything’s okay.

You don’t know Jay very well if you think he’d ever post such a thing.

Brosephus™

June 28th, 2012
8:00 am

Either way the decision comes down, the insurance industry wins. If the ACA is upheld, they have a limitless customer base they can collect from until they just get tired and quit. If it’s overturned, then it’s right back to square one with people being dropped like bat guano from the top of a cave.

I don’t see a win for us either way. I guess I’ll also add that I don’t like this law, regardless to whether it’s constitutional or not. I really don’t give a rat’s ass about the constitutional part. The only way to begin to gain control over costs is to cut out the middle man. It’s no different than being squeezed by the mafia or something like that.

TaxPayer

June 28th, 2012
8:01 am

Medicare and Medicaid should be expanded to cover our entire population.

How many of you out there in electronland would give up your current health insurance through your work or Medicare, etc., in exchange for a few hundred dollars extra per month in your pocket and the “freedom” to haggle in an unregulated market place for your healthcare needs?

carlosgvv

June 28th, 2012
8:08 am

“wounds from it heal”

Regardless of how the Court rules, Republicans have shown their complete allegiance to protecting America’s healthcare industry and their “cash cow” system which grinds out every dollar they can get off the backs of the people. The people have indeed been “wounded” by Republican lust for political power at any price and in any way.

Citizen of the World

June 28th, 2012
8:09 am

If the court rules that the insurance mandate is unconstitutional, seems like that would just leave us no choice but to move to a single payer system supported by tax dollars, which I’m sure the Republicans don’t want, but the American people will eventually demand as the costly and cruel status quo sinks us further and further into heath care hell.

Jerome Horwitz

June 28th, 2012
8:10 am

Bro’ – Take it your for single payer? If so, I’m with you. Have a friend who’s English and is here because of a spouse’s employement. He is amazed that a country this rich has such a convoluted health care system that just sucks.

GT

June 28th, 2012
8:13 am

When the attorney general of Georgia joined the case I was thinking once again we are spending good money after bad. We can’t feed our own, but we got money to play the lottery. Little did I realize law doesn’t matter any more, nor do facts. Like steroids it is all about winning at any cost and man has the cost gone up.

carlosgvv

June 28th, 2012
8:13 am

Jerome – 8:10

Tell your English friend that if Big Business takes over his counrty’s politicial system as it has in America, his health care system will just suck too.

Gale

June 28th, 2012
8:13 am

What Brosephus said. This law was flawed from the beginning by the insistance of keeping insurance companies in business, nay, enriching insurance companies beyond their already grand profits. The issue is fundamentally simple; keep people healthy, at least those who choose to be healthy, and don’t let the rest die for want of care. The current system rewards healthcare professionals for services rendered, not for keeping people healthy.

Thomas

June 28th, 2012
8:13 am

There’s an explosive story out (six days ago) in the Daily Mail over in the UK claiming that Britain’s National Health Service euthanizes 130,000 elderly patients a year. This claim doesn’t issue from some loopy former governor of an arctic province; it comes from professor Patrick Pullicino, a consultant neurologist for East Kent Hospitals and Professor of Clinical Neurosciences at the University of Kent. He made this claim in a speech to the Royal Society of Medicine in London. From the Daily Mail:

Bruno

June 28th, 2012
8:14 am

Now those same conservatives eagerly await while the entire U.S. health care industry is remade in true secrecy, by unchallengeable edict issued from private chambers by nine robed figures haughtily and altogether immune to public opinion.

Total mischaracterization, Jay. Nothing is being “remade” today. They are ruling on the constitutionality of the vast overreach by the Democrats. The process is the same as any other SCOTUS ruling.

I’m smelling sour grapes here already.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

June 28th, 2012
8:14 am

JAY,

“little to none of that is true….” why is it Jay when your heros’ score a run despite lack of class and transparency, the other team is a bunch of whiners? I guess same rule applies when SCOTUS doesn’t rule in your favor you become the whiner….”judicial activism, judicial activism…get one of our guys on the bench so this problem will go away…’ In that event, would you argue with the sheepish righties who would be whining “judicial activism” at that point?

Simple Truths

June 28th, 2012
8:15 am

What a hack…

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

June 28th, 2012
8:15 am

Good morning all y’all…

Just been checking out a blurb about Massachusetts GOP and Ron Paul Delegates. Seems that Mr. Paul’s people owned most of the delegates and the Mass. GOP didn’t like that…especially since Massachusetts is Romney’s home State. So what do they do? They require..REQUIRE… a loyalty oath affidavit for Mitt Romney. The GOP is insane.

Now if I remember my history correctly, the last Country’s leader (besides G. W. Bush) to require a loyalty oath was Adolph Hitler…are we seeing a resemblance here?

There has been much talk on this blog about “Obama’s Brown Shirts”…But could it be more like Romney’s Black Shirts? Just asking….

Paul

June 28th, 2012
8:15 am

From downstairs:

If the mandate is tossed, it ain’t all bad. Look at how far Republicans have come

“The individual mandate is the right, good and constitutional thing to do.”

“Democrats agree? Wait… the mandate is socialism, an affront to freedom and unconstitutional!”

“We’ll throw out Obamacare.”

“We’ll throw it out… but we’ll replace it, too!!”

“We kinda like no caps.”

“Not getting dropped when you get sick is okay.”

“Coverage for preexisting conditions is good.”

“We think we should have high-risk pools.”

In other words, Democrats lifted the individual mandate from Republicans, then Republicans fought it.

Republicans lifted all the other ideas from Democrats, and Democrats will support them.

Progress.

Paul

June 28th, 2012
8:16 am

Bruno

When do you sleep?

ken

June 28th, 2012
8:16 am

Just rememder that Medicare turns down more claims than any private insurance company.

Recon 0311 2533

June 28th, 2012
8:17 am

“Little to none of that was true”

Of course it was true. There was no open discussion that the public could view as Obama had promised. As for permanently altering the image and role of the Supreme Court that sounds like preparation to charge the Court with right wing politics and suggest that it shouldn’t function as an equal branch of government should the ruling go against Obama’s health care bill.

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
8:17 am

I really don’t give a rat’s ass about the constitutional part.

I do, and I’ll explain why. The conventional wisdom among left *and* right upon the PPACA’s passage (save for the most extreme elements out there) was that whatever you thought of the bill, there was no way that conservatives could really hope to challenge the individual mandate.

There was precedent up the wazoo for where the Feds had required this or that payment for this or that program, and there were mandates all over the place for privately run enterprises, going back literally hundreds of years. Sure, some would mount a legal challenge–that’s how you keep people honest, right?–but the way to attack the ACA, if you were on the right, was to field candidates who’d write and sign laws repealing/replacing it.

It should be rather breathtaking that within a single President’s term, moneyed interests could wrest control and use the machinery that’d been carefully built. Just enough loopy right-wing judges slipped through to kick the arguments upstairs, and lots of corporate propaganda aimed at dismantling even more of the New Deal.

So I get your pragmatism, but I can’t help but think about where this ruling—wherever it goes, today—says we’re headed.

However the ruling comes down, sure, this process-story is just a process-story. But it’s kind of a big deal. It rates a “bigger than a rat’s ass” to me, I guess I’m sayin’.

Bruno

June 28th, 2012
8:17 am

Well, Bruno’s already on record. Although I would expect better from him. I also see our little ant hill kicker is here doing what he does best…

Brosephus–I’ll spike the ball for freedom any day. This isn’t about politics, it’s about our fundamental right to determine our own course of action in life.

Paul

June 28th, 2012
8:18 am

Jerome

Wife and I were in Ireland at a little cafe. It was crowded and two young ladies, one in a wheelchair, joined us at our table. They asked “can we ask you a question?” We said ’sure.’ They asked ‘we’ve heard in America that only people who can afford it have health insurance, and if you don’t have it you can’t afford a lot of the treatments. Is that true?” We answered, “pretty much, yes.”

They replied “We’d heard that but we just didn’t believe it.”

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

June 28th, 2012
8:18 am

“There’s an explosive story out (six days ago) in the Daily Mail”

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand that tells you all you need to know.

Bruno

June 28th, 2012
8:20 am

The issue is fundamentally simple; keep people healthy, at least those who choose to be healthy

Gale–You seem to be confused about where “health” comes from. It doesn’t come from doctors, it comes from the individual.

jconservative

June 28th, 2012
8:20 am

“…unchallengeable edict issued from private chambers by nine robed figures…”

Actually it will probably be 5, maybe 6, with an outside shot at 7 “robed figures”.

This court seems to thrive on 5.

MiltonMan

June 28th, 2012
8:21 am

“We can’t feed our own, but we got money to play the lottery>”

We have straving dying kids in Georgia???

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

June 28th, 2012
8:22 am

“You seem to be confused about where “health” comes from. It doesn’t come from doctors, it comes from the individual.”

gosh, my sister who has MS will be interested to hear that SHE’S responsible for contracting the disease.

Bruno

June 28th, 2012
8:24 am

All I can do is hope that some of you here wake up and smell the coffee and realize that the ACA doesn’t address the root causes of the problems in our health care system: (1) Too many unhealthy people (2) An over-reliance on drug and surgery-based solutions (3) Out-of-control pricing.

The entire thrust of the ACA was a meaningless attempt to further spread costs around. Predictably, people fell for the specious “free rider” argument pushed by Jay and several of the Libs here, foolishly believing that a mandate to purchase insurance is going to lower costs. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence realizes that the ACA will increase overall costs in many ways, increased overhead for doctors only being one of them.

Until Americans start taking more responsibility for their own health, their own lives, their own destiny, no amount of band-aids are going to stop the bleeding.

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 28th, 2012
8:24 am

Jay: “Touchdown!”

Spiking the ball by the loser? Wait….

Joseph

June 28th, 2012
8:24 am

Republicans didn’t have any input in Obamacare Jay. Thats a flat out lie on your part…

Gale

June 28th, 2012
8:25 am

No Bruno, as you noticed, I said “those who choose to be healthy”. I am well aware that some people ignore their well being by choice. They smoke, they eat too much, they drink too much, they do not exercise, often when they know they have some chronic disease. Doctors do not get paid by insurance companies to console those patients to better behavior that would improve their health. Doctors are reimbursed for running tests, performing procedures, and prescribing drugs. None of those things help the patient get healthy in the long run.

Brosephus™

June 28th, 2012
8:25 am

Bro’ – Take it your for single payer?

Not entirely. I’d rather we adopt a system that provided basic care for all and allowed insurance to cover the catastrophic and other things that it’s supposed to be used for. Most counties already have health clinics up and running, so there’s no major investments that need to take place. Single payer over the entire system would put government (or the single payer) in charge of all things including stuff like cosmetic surgery. Those things I feel should be paid for by the person instead of covered by all. I’m more concerned that people at least get the basic checkups to see what they need to do to improve their health on their own.

—————

dB

This country is so polarized that I’m surprised that Republicans in DC haven’t repudiated Jesus, given the fact that Obama has stressed time and time again that he’s Christian. I guess that’s why some feel a need to call him Muslim. That way, they can keep their anti-Obama cred without having to give up their own religion in the process.

I understand the previous rulings and laws that have upheld the commerce clause. That’s part of the reason for my pragmatism towards the Constitutionality part of this issue. As Gale put it earler, I’m more concerned with people being able to get the medical care they need without having to live in a cardboard box to do so.

If it’s overturned, many GOPers in DC have already said they’re not in a hurry to do anything to help those who really need it most. As long as I have my job, I’ll have coverage, so this decision doesn’t affect me much other than me giving even more of my money to insurance companies in the hopes they don’t drop me or my family because I didn’t spit my watermelon seeds over my right shoulder or something else crazy like that.

Thomas

June 28th, 2012
8:25 am

It is amazing to observe seemingly intelligent folks dismiss half or more of the country on a daily basis as “loopy” “dumb” “out of touch”

truly amazing and we wonder how the progression has stalled-

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 28th, 2012
8:25 am

Jays throwing a tantrum. And the ruling hasn’t even come out yet…

Bruno

June 28th, 2012
8:25 am

gosh, my sister who has MS will be interested to hear that SHE’S responsible for contracting the disease.

USinUK–Only a small fraction of our health care dollars go to treat people like your sister. The vast majority go toward treating conditions which are preventable.

skipper

June 28th, 2012
8:26 am

I remember when Pelosi was pushing the issue; that alone made me against it! lol But seriously, I do not think this is the answer. The malpractice suits (many of them frivolous) are a major part of what drove insurance up to start with. My Dad is a retired M.D. and by the time he did, his rates had SKYROCKETED even though he never got sued! Per Shakespeare: “The first thing is, we get rid of the lawers!”

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

June 28th, 2012
8:26 am

setting aside the politics of the matter, this is the funniest lead I’ve read in ages:

Larry Tribe, the Harvard law professor who taught both Barack Obama and John Roberts, says the mandate will be upheld. So does Tom Goldstein of SCOTUSblog. And Linda Greenhouse of the New York Times. Ed Whelan of the National Review says it’s gone. A poll of former Supreme Court clerks backs him up. Ex-Solicitor General Walter Dellinger says the Court will split the difference. Orin Kerr, a former Kennedy clerk, makes a convincing argument that the Supreme Court will never give you up, never let you down, never run around and desert you.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/06/28/individual-mandageddon-its-the-next-president-that-matters-most/?hpid=z1

Paul

June 28th, 2012
8:26 am

Bruno

“This isn’t about politics, it’s about our fundamental right to determine our own course of action in life.”

Yeah, like people exercising their God-given right to not provide for themselves and their families and when they get sick, having other people pay for it.

Freedom is grand, isn’t it?

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

June 28th, 2012
8:27 am

“Republicans didn’t have any input in Obamacare Jay. That’s a flat out lie on your part”

Since Obama Care was mostly a copy of Romney Care, I’d have to say…politely…you are misinformed…

GT

June 28th, 2012
8:27 am

What was never abundantly clear ,until this case, to the American public, was how horrendous our health care financing had become in this country. We were a little in between the old system of lifetime employment and corporate benefits and the new young generation who didn’t buy health insurance. The reality leaked in at a slow pace and we woke up one day realizing we had been raped by the industry, held down by the insurance lobbies and assisted by the Republican Party who would have never changed a thing until this came to light. Now the Republicans like a sleeping policeman on the beat wake up and have it all together. Give me a break.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

June 28th, 2012
8:27 am

Bruno –

“Only a small fraction of our health care dollars go to treat people like your sister. The vast majority go toward treating conditions which are preventable.”

baby.

bathwater.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

June 28th, 2012
8:28 am

130,000? The only name on our list is yours Thomas.

We better catch up.

jconservative

June 28th, 2012
8:29 am

Paul 8:15 am

Good point.

The question is where will be 5 years from now on health care? And that was the question before the Court even accepted the case.

Anyone paying attention knew that with the 2003 passage of Bush’s senior drug bill that some form of “universal” coverage would pass congress within 10 years.

Peadawg

June 28th, 2012
8:29 am

“Republicans didn’t have any input in Obamacare Jay. ”

The mandate was their f’ing idea. What are you talking about? Nevermind it was pretty much a copy of RomneyCare.

Paul

June 28th, 2012
8:29 am

Bruno

My prior post was in reference to your 8:17. Amazing how quickly people are posting this morning.

Regarding “(1) Too many unhealthy people (2) An over-reliance on drug and surgery-based solutions ”

If people hated the mandate because they didn’t want gov’t telling them what to do, I can only imagine what their reaction would be to the ’solutions’ for those two items.

Bruno

June 28th, 2012
8:29 am

Doctors do not get paid by insurance companies to console those patients to better behavior that would improve their health.

Gale–I’m on the front line of health care. I counsel people every day about how to better take care of themselves. About 10% listen at best. In other words, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. Until people take responsibility for their own health, we’re going nowhere but down. Pardon me if I don’t wish to fund our own suicide.

Gale

June 28th, 2012
8:30 am

USinUK, Sorry, my point was not aimed at those with diseases or congenital health problems. Americans spend a great deal of money on drugs when we could improve our health with exercise and diet.
I know that MS and various other diseases cannot be willed away or avoided by better behavior. But a huge drain on health care resources is caused by people more willing to take a drug than to change their behavior.

Darwin

June 28th, 2012
8:30 am

ACA was modeled after a right wing think tank and Romney’s Mass. plan. It really didn’t look at controlling costs but insuring those who currently are not insured. Republicans found they could gain more by running the same old antics of “government takeover of health care.” It wasn’t about protecting insurance companies (which it did). It was about poiwer.

Brosephus™

June 28th, 2012
8:30 am

I’ll spike the ball for freedom any day. This isn’t about politics, it’s about our fundamental right to determine our own course of action in life.

If everybody had the same choices and the same freedoms, then I’d agree with you. However, you and I both know that some people have a hill to climb while others have a mountain range and ocean to cross.

Freedom isn’t free. While you consider yourself free not having to pay for others, there are those like me who take up your slack. Unlike you, I can’t go without insurance coverage since I have a wife and child that I prefer to have covered. I guess that’s the difference between having to fend for yourself versus having a family to provide for. When I was single, I was no different than you. However, once I became responsible for taking care of a family, I couldn’t live the “wild and free” lifestyle anymore.

ty webb

June 28th, 2012
8:30 am

“Since Obama Care was mostly a copy of Romney Care…”

yet with one huge difference…care to guess what it was? I’ll hang up and listen.

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 28th, 2012
8:31 am

“Medicare and Medicaid should be expanded to cover our entire population”

Insanity

JohnnyReb

June 28th, 2012
8:31 am

“Little to none of that (the throat cramming thing) was true…”

Jay, what would it take for you to agree it true?

There was extreme partisan divide. Scott Walker received huge sums of money from out of state people so he would win the MA Senate seat under the hope his election would kill the bill.

But no, the Left crammed it through.

There are lots of legitimate reasons the bill should be repealed, but for us political junkies on the Right there is another.

Because of the way it was passed; because of the way Nancy spoke of it, because of the pay-offs to Democrats to get their votes, etc. etc. I want to see it trashed. Jump up and down on it till its in smitheeens. Then, force feed the left overs to Obama with him choking on every spoonful.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

June 28th, 2012
8:31 am

Bruno – I agree with you that obesity is a problem that is in individual control – HOWEVER, you’re sentencing people like my sister as well as people who have lupus, CFS, rhumatoid arthritis (and osteo, for that matter) to debilitating health care costs

meanwhile, interesting stats (and ooooooo a pie chart!):

http://www.kaiseredu.org/issue-modules/us-health-care-costs/background-brief.aspx

PJ

June 28th, 2012
8:32 am

ken @8:16 am

Agreed. They should stop turning down all the Hoveround requests.

Peadawg

June 28th, 2012
8:33 am

“yet with one huge difference…care to guess what it was?”

And what was that difference?

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

June 28th, 2012
8:33 am

Bruno,
You are sounding a little hard and cold this morning. I hope everything is OK with you.

I know that a lot of folks don’t believe that health care is a right, but I believe it should be and should be carried by the Government much like Medicare is for me. One of the greatest things I was ever taught by my folks was that Americans helped each other, and our Government, as our benevolent benefactor, was to be the driving force. America should have no poverty, no poor, and no sickness because we ARE America. How can we say we are the best nation if we can’t provide basic needs for our citizens? I really do not understand this.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

June 28th, 2012
8:33 am

“yet with one huge difference…care to guess what it was? I’ll hang up and listen.”

if you think it is the mandate, you’d be wrong

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/11/15/us/politics/comparing-two-health-care-laws.html

Joseph

June 28th, 2012
8:34 am

Normal Free…Pro Human Rights Thug…And liking it!:

I would say that state level verses federal level are two different things. You are sadly informed. If states want to implement this law go for it. But the federal gubmint doing it is not within reason…

Paul

June 28th, 2012
8:35 am

USinUK

Mrs. Paul had a friend and here three little girls over to swim yesterday.

Mom has Crohn’s disease.

Little girl has rheumatoid arthritis.

This stuff ain’t theoretical.

TaxPayer

June 28th, 2012
8:36 am

Republicans didn’t have any input in Obamacare Jay. Thats a flat out lie on your part…

I Object!

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
8:36 am

Carlos, I know you probably meant to not single out “republicans” in your post @ 8.08.

It would be a horrible mistake to pin the blame for the sorry state of affairs we find ourselves in exclusively on the GOP. Obama surely learned, if he didn’t know already going in, that any incremental changes to the way this country transfers money were going to be subject to the wishes of an unelected business establishment and the Democrats played along from the beginning.

Remember that brief period when Senators were drafting some plans to replace the public option with a modest option to expand of Medicare buy-in to those aged 55-64? Remember how there seemed, for a brief shining moment, that this might attract some who’d been disinclined to have any publicly funded insurance beyond Medicaid written into the PPACA?

Remember how “independent” Joe Lieberman was the guy made the first public stink about it?

No way it was just Traitor Joe originating the stink. I think it is extremely likely Joe was told by some Blue Dog types “you’re the fall guy, and we’re calling in a favor in exchange for screwing us earlier”.

ty webb

June 28th, 2012
8:36 am

Peadawg,
think real hard…it’ll come to you.

UsinUk,
not talking about the mandate.

Paul

June 28th, 2012
8:36 am

Peadawg

“And what was that difference?”

You’re supposed to guess!!!

Spoilsport.

But this is tricky. You’re not supposed to guess the ‘correct’ answer.

You’re supposed to guess what the questioner thinks it is.

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 28th, 2012
8:36 am

” Nevermind it was pretty much a copy of RomneyCare.”

False. And most of romneycare was written by democrats in the legislature. Still, Romney signed it.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

June 28th, 2012
8:38 am

kayaker 71

June 28th, 2012
8:38 am

Bookman,

All of the lies, bribes, backroom deals and sellouts that occurred prior to the Affordable Care Act (a contradiction in terms) were disgusting. The LA purchase, the welfare money for Nebraska, “You can keep your insurance company”, “You can keep your doctor”, “This won’t add a single dime to the federal budget”, “This will only cost the American taxpayer 940B dollars”….. all done under the premise that if we just can get this passed, medical insurance companies as we know them, will be a thing of the past. This whole cluster has been and still is, pointed at destroying these companies and putting government under control of over 1/6 of our economy. We all know how government manages things of this type…. government is an utter failure when it comes to predicting budgets, outcomes and making timely decisions. Always ends up costing twice as much and being managed twice as inefficiently. Your whole argument only tells half of the story, as usual. That is, if they rule against this insanity. If they don’t and the bill is upheld, all of these 4 white guys and an uncle tom will suddenly be your heroes.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

June 28th, 2012
8:38 am

Paul – but evidently those things are AAAALLLLLLL preventable and they should have stopped doing whatever it was they were doing to catch those diseases. or something.

Cosby

June 28th, 2012
8:39 am

Either way, the Supreme Court has lost its way in the past twenty years. their job is to rule on the constitution and the law, but, as we have seen, they let their own politicial idiology interfear. And on todays court – Kagel and Sotomyer who are known to judge on emmotion. The Federal government and the Supreme Court are broken

Paul

June 28th, 2012
8:39 am

An excellent article, in plain English, from Scotusblog about what’s being decided today.

http://www.scotusblog.com/2012/06/anticipating-the-health-care-decision-in-plain-english/#more-147840

ty webb

June 28th, 2012
8:39 am

Paul,
no, there is a correct answer.

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 28th, 2012
8:39 am

“I know that a lot of folks don’t believe that health care is a right, but I believe it should be”

Please name the other rights enshrined in the constitution that cost a fortune.

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
8:41 am

About Thomas’ post @ 8.13? Specifically, the phrase…

“This claim doesn’t issue from some loopy former governor of an arctic province”

for the record: the Google sez

Search About 1,520 results (0.32 seconds)

Jeez.

mtown9999

June 28th, 2012
8:41 am

Jay:

“and to permanently alter the image and role of the Supreme Court as well.”

IF the Supreme Court overturns Obamacare, please disect and truly read the decision. Just because YOU may not agree with the decision, doesn’t mean that “IT WILL PERMANENTLY ALTER THE IMAGE AND THE ROLE OF THE SUPREME COURT”. I’m not an attorny and you shouldn’t pretend you are one either. These are some of the most brilliant law minds in the world. You are always citing economists, scientists, etc in your articles, but yet act as if the Supreme Court justices arent’ given the same privilege as being experts in their field.

Don't Tread

June 28th, 2012
8:41 am

Will the Supremes be ObamaCare’s real ‘death panel’?

Let’s hope so.

Peadawg

June 28th, 2012
8:41 am

” America should have no poverty, no poor, and no sickness”

You may want to phone your local congressmen to be more worried America and not policing the entire world.

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
8:42 am

Kagel and Sotomyer who are known to judge on emmotion.

If you’re going to play that tiresome, fact-free card, you ought to at least know how to spell it.

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

June 28th, 2012
8:42 am

Scalia needs to be taken out back and dealt with. Let’s see if Roberts does it today.

Funny thing is, Scalia’s Arizona opinion was agreed to by exactly ZERO of the other conservative judges on the SC. Not even Thomas was gonna back that grossly political opinion.

ByteMe - Political thug

June 28th, 2012
8:42 am

Medicare and Medicaid should be expanded to cover our entire population.

Both expanded and contracted.

Medicare should cover all… but with a high deductible for all. Medicaid makes up the difference for those with no income and no assets. Those with income and assets can still buy supplemental policies to cover things that Medicare doesn’t cover (which is the case now anyway).

ByteMe - Political thug

June 28th, 2012
8:43 am

You may want to phone your local congressmen to be more worried America and not policing the entire world.

But what if my local congressman refuses to help anyone but those outside the country or outside his country club?

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

June 28th, 2012
8:43 am

Please name the other rights enshrined in the constitution that cost a fortune.

Is national security in there (the military)?

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
8:44 am

Speaking of tiresome and fact-free talking points–for those who are pulling Ye Olde “They did it in SECRET! the Preznit PROMISED!”

I remain sorry that you didn’t get the transparency that you didn’t vote for.

(hey, if they can play oldies-but-goodies that were scripted for them, I can play an oldie I actually authored myself.)

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

June 28th, 2012
8:45 am

dammit, Finneus beat me to it

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

June 28th, 2012
8:45 am

My bet: The SC will punt until the mandate goes into effect in 2015.

Peadawg

June 28th, 2012
8:45 am

“But what if my local congressman refuses to help anyone but those outside the country or outside his country club?”

Vote his ass out.

Talking Head

June 28th, 2012
8:45 am

“Now those same conservatives eagerly await while the entire U.S. health care industry is remade in true secrecy, by unchallengeable edict issued from private chambers by nine robed figures haughtily and altogether immune to public opinion.”

Sounds like someone isn’t a fan of that whole ‘checks and balance’ system. Wouldn’t it be easier if we just gave supreme power to the President…oh wait

TaxPayer

June 28th, 2012
8:46 am

Please name the other rights enshrined in the constitution that cost a fortune.

The right to bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iraq, er, um, I mean, Iran.

Here we go!

June 28th, 2012
8:47 am

The reason this debate is even happening is because of this:

http://www.wlfi.com/dpps/health/healthy_living/a-health-care-judas-recounts-his-conversion_4218979

I am hoping as a Christian, an American, something out of the decision today will stop what this article speaks about. I find it hard to grasp that we as a country will put in billions of dollars to support a war, rebuild schools in a foreign country, continue to police the world, yet allow our own people, some of whom have fought for this country, to die because they can’t afford health insurance. Where is our moral compass? Can we not agree the health insurance industry isn’t “for” us, it is “for” making money, plain and simple. I’m not saying anything is wrong with making money, but our people are dying, and some of us don’t seem to care. What happened to us?

Paul

June 28th, 2012
8:49 am

ty webb

“no, there is a correct answer.”

How about “I just like the attention from getting people to guess and engage me instead of just laying out my case?”

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 28th, 2012
8:51 am

Sorry usinuk

Keep trying

They don’t even mention the medical device tax and new investments tax from obamacare

They picked out a few things that were similar and said: hey they’re about the same!

You have to look at the entirety of the law

In addition, I have read multiple times the max romneycare penalty was $219. So I don’t know where NYT gets their info

ByteMe - Political thug

June 28th, 2012
8:51 am

Vote his ass out.

I wish… but the guy won’t even hold a public meeting with constituents and he’s the only one on the ballot, because he’s got that much pull around here.

ByteMe - Political thug

June 28th, 2012
8:52 am

Where is our moral compass?

Wrapped up in embryos instead of people.

Bill Orvis White

June 28th, 2012
8:53 am

ObamaCare WILL die today. The entire thing is completely illegal. Once it’s dead, it WILL be buried forever. We held prayer vigils – praying for its failure. I am confident that it WILL thankfully die today. http://tinyurl.com/84lpsgo Amen, Bill

godless heathen

June 28th, 2012
8:53 am

Yeah, like people exercising their God-given right to not provide for themselves and their families and when they get sick, having other people pay for it.

Freedom is grand, isn’t it?

Like people exercising their God-given right to not accept a freely offered education, to not work to provide for themselves and their families, and when they get hungry, having other people buy food for them.

Freedom like that?

ty webb

June 28th, 2012
8:53 am

“How about “I just like the attention from getting people to guess and engage me instead of just laying out my case?”

now that’s an interesting answer, but sadly, it is not the correct answer that points out the ridiculously, humongous difference between Obamacare and Romenycare. Thanks for trying though… Oh, and it’s not just “my case”, There’s a big a factual difference between the two.