How do you say ‘Energiewende’ in American?

The answer is, you don’t.

The Germans have a reputation as hard-headed, practical and technically capable, and that reputation is being borne out — so far — as Germany moves quickly toward green energy. In 2000, the highly industrialized country produced just 6 percent of its electricity through renewable sources such as wind and solar; by 2011, that number had jumped to 20 percent.

And as Technology Review points out, the biggest step is yet to come, with Germany aiming to meet 35 percent of its electricity needs through renewables by 2020:

In 2010, the German government declared that it would undertake what has popularly come to be called an Energiewende — an energy turn, or energy revolution. This switch from fossil fuels to renewable energy is the most ambitious ever attempted by a heavily industrialized country: It aims to cut greenhouse-gas emissions 40 percent from 1990 levels by 2020, and 80 percent by mid-century.

The goal was challenging, but it was made somewhat easier by the fact that Germany already generated more than 20 percent of its electricity from nuclear power, which produces almost no greenhouse gases. Then last year, responding to public concern over the post-tsunami nuclear disaster in Fukushima, Japan, Chancellor Angela Merkel ordered the eight oldest German nuclear plants shut down right away. A few months later, the government finalized a plan to shut the remaining nine by 2022. Now the Energiewende includes a turn away from Germany’s biggest source of low-­carbon electricity.

Germany has set itself up for a grand experiment that could have repercussions for all of Europe, which depends heavily on German economic strength. The country must build and use renewable energy technologies at unprecedented scales, at enormous but uncertain cost, while reducing energy use. And it must pull it all off without undercutting industry, which relies on reasonably priced, reliable power. “In a sense, the Energiewende is a political statement without a technical solution,” says Stephan Reimelt, CEO of GE Energy Germany. “Germany is forcing itself toward innovation. What this generates is a large industrial laboratory at a size which has never been done before. We will have to try a lot of different technologies to get there.”

How can Germany hope to pull off such a feat without driving electricity prices so high that industry is forced to leave? In part, by making residential customers and small business — captive users, in other words — pay the brunt of the increased cost, while largely exempting major industry.

Even with that arrangement, many business leaders are still not convinced it’s feasible, with one prominent German CEO referring to Energiewende as a “political wish that is without a realistic view of what is achievable.”

Such nervousness is understandable, given the enormity of the task that Germany has set for itself. German officials acknowledge that the technology does not yet exist to make their goal a reality. In effect, they are gambling that necessity will once again be the mother of invention, forcing innovation that otherwise would not occur.

So far, the progress that they’ve made is impressive. But as an American, I’m even more impressed with the fact that their political leadership is capable of undertaking such a bold campaign, with support across the political spectrum. Sadly, that capability seems to have atrophied on this side of the Atlantic.

– Jay Bookman

431 comments Add your comment

First?

June 27th, 2012
3:55 pm

First?

June 27th, 2012
3:56 pm

I always make fun of people who do the “first” thing but now I see it’s kind of like making fun of the guy who caught the foul ball. It comes from envy.

I’m going to play Lotto tonight.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 27th, 2012
3:57 pm

While I do not agree with aspects of the program, you are right. At least they have a vision and leadership to implement it.

stands for decibels

June 27th, 2012
3:57 pm

Sadly, that capability seems to have atrophied on this side of the Atlantic.

at the risk of stating the obvious:

http://www.techienation.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/solarwindcartoon.gif

Joseph

June 27th, 2012
4:06 pm

Well I thought Jay was going for the global warming slant… My bad… I got the memo to Jay…

Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:34 pm

I got a feeling that Jay is probably going for the global warming angle for tomorrows tripe..

Matti

June 27th, 2012
4:08 pm

Ausgezeichnet! Sehr gut fur die Deutsche. Warum bleiben wir mit Neanderthal-denken?

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

June 27th, 2012
4:12 pm

Wind turbeens? In Gawja? I don’t think so.

Rome lasted around 477 years. We are on 236 and already yesterday’s news.

CJ

June 27th, 2012
4:13 pm

Meanwhile, weekend temps in Atlanta are predicted to rise above 100 degrees…in June.

Logical Dude

June 27th, 2012
4:14 pm

I think the green energy of the future is ocean current energy. It’s like a windmill, but instead of using low energy density “air”, you use high energy density “water”. Imagine how much energy you can produce just off the coast using the Gulf Stream. HUGE amounts.
Oh sure, there are a few obstacles:
energy transmission from underwater
underwater construction
underwater maintenance
corrosive resistant materials

You know, easy stuff.

jd

June 27th, 2012
4:16 pm

Even Margaret Thatcher came to see that wasting energy=wasting money and that was not a conservative family value!

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
4:16 pm

A captive residential audience! I’m aghast! Republicans must be fuming at the prospect of such a thing occurring here, in the freedom states of America.

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
4:17 pm

I’m just glad that the cons know that there’s no such thing as global warming. Otherwise, things could really heat up.

carlosgvv

June 27th, 2012
4:20 pm

“which depends heavily on German economic strength”

Since we now live in a global economy, America also depends heavily on German economic strength. Couple that with their bold political leadership as contrasted to our gutless leaders and, after being defeated in two world wars, they just might wind up winning the world after all.

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
4:20 pm

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
4:23 pm

Oh! I forgot to tell you. The “fuel” is free.

Rickster

June 27th, 2012
4:24 pm

Germany is developing wind & other sources of energy because they have to. They do not have the oil & natural gas resources that our country does.

I have no problem with developing a “21st century” energy policy, as long as it includes oil, and nuclear along with others.

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
4:24 pm

Oh geez, don’t let jm get ahold of this one. He’ll likely go into shock or something… :)

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
4:28 pm

The cons are ratherquiet at the moment. Did their Fahrvergnügens explode?

Jefferson

June 27th, 2012
4:29 pm

The USA was inovative during the moon shot era, now the GOP only wants tax breaks for the rich. A great country cost money.

Steve - USA ("None of the Above")

June 27th, 2012
4:32 pm

I used 808 k WH last month and my total bill including tax was $96.89, If Grandpa never left Germany I would be paying $216.14 for last month.

I am glad Grandpa got on that ship.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

June 27th, 2012
4:33 pm

Hint:

Don’t trust anything the Germans do.

They started two world wars !!

P.S. What does this have to do with Georgia transportation?

ByteMe - Political thug

June 27th, 2012
4:35 pm

People want to point partisan fingers about why we don’t have the guts to change. It’s the cons fault. It’s the libs fault. It’s them. They’re the ones!

It’s our own fault, though. We’re too scared of suffering some unknown/undefined discomfort that might possibly maybe come with change. So we prefer slow-paced evolution to visionary revolution. The current generation has had it too easy for too long to want to do big things like land a person on the moon.

We need a good war to create another “greatest generation”. We need to get away from the all-volunteer army and make everyone serve for 2 years after high school, so that the soldier we send to war is one of us and not one of them. We need to learn again about sacrifice for the common good.

MiltonMan

June 27th, 2012
4:35 pm

“How can Germany hope to pull off such a feat without driving electricity prices so high that industry is forced to leave? In part, by making residential customers and small business — captive users, in other words — pay the brunt of the increased cost, while largely exempting major industry.”

Funny that Jay fails to mention that Germans pay some of the highest electrical rates already – almost 3 times more than we pay in the US.

j$

June 27th, 2012
4:35 pm

How do you say “Energiewende” in America?

“Der Kommissar Obama”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w4Xulsjo5I

FAIL

b-troll

June 27th, 2012
4:37 pm

“Without enough cheap, reliable power to support the high-technology industry and the transportation system, Germany’s economy—and that of Europe as a whole—could be in trouble. Already some German firms are building new manufacturing facilities elsewhere; for example, last year the chemical producer Wacker ­Chemie decided to build a polysilicon plant in Tennessee, partly because energy costs in Germany were so high. Weale says, “The quality of the supply would only have to deteriorate a little bit and it would be quite serious for this high-­technology industry. We’ve already seen, even without the lights going out, that industry is getting nervous.” ”

This is the part that cracks me up. I read this earlier. A solar company having to relocate to the US because….. the electricity from alternative energy in Germany has gotten to expensive for them to compete.

Ah the irony.

ByteMe - Political thug

June 27th, 2012
4:37 pm

Funny that Jay fails to mention that Germans pay some of the highest electrical rates already – almost 3 times more than we pay in the US.

And yet the German economy continues to grow much faster than the economy of, say, Greece. Seems that paying more for energy doesn’t kill the economy or cause job loss. But you failed to mention that.

Jefferson

June 27th, 2012
4:37 pm

President Obama is cheering for the USA in the olympics, will the GOP and their flock oppose him ? Duckheads.

Steve - USA ("None of the Above")

June 27th, 2012
4:38 pm

So suddenly the Liberals on here are all for giving massive energy breaks for large corporations and have energy costs basically subsidized by small business and residential customers.

Is that what you really want or you didn’t bother to actually read the article and links?

ByteMe - Political thug

June 27th, 2012
4:39 pm

So suddenly the Liberals on here are all for giving massive energy breaks for large corporations and have energy costs basically subsidized by small business and residential customers.

Where did you read that the Liberals on here are ALL for giving energy breaks to corporations?

b-troll

June 27th, 2012
4:39 pm

when the rubber meets the road, they won’t terminate those nuclear plants that the manufacturing heartland of Germany depends on

MiltonMan

June 27th, 2012
4:40 pm

“The USA was inovative during the moon shot era, now the GOP only wants tax breaks for the rich. A great country cost money.”

Let’s just ignore that Obama has cut NASA budget shall we?

godless heathen

June 27th, 2012
4:40 pm

This is great. The “captive users” (not sure you should use that term in regards to Germany) will bear the price of the engineering and the innovation and then we can steal it from them.

carlosgvv

June 27th, 2012
4:41 pm

ByteMe – 4:35

That “good war” you speak of would be WWIII. It would be an all out nucelar war and would last about eight hours. Our next “greatest generation” would be dead in a week.

Steve - USA ("None of the Above")

June 27th, 2012
4:41 pm

“Where did you read that the Liberals on here are ALL for giving energy breaks to corporations?”

Show me the post of one the left wingers here that was against it.

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
4:41 pm

Where did you read that the Liberals on here are ALL for giving energy breaks to corporations?

It was right there in the article where Steve said it was.

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 27th, 2012
4:42 pm

Steve USA

But don’t forget, like taxpayer, after they get the tax breaks and don’t pay much in taxes, they will then be constantly criticized and their CEO pay will be compared to their low tax bill, that resulted from doing what the voters and government wanted

Ah the liberal stupidity, it knows no bounds

MiltonMan

June 27th, 2012
4:44 pm

“President Obama is cheering for the USA in the olympics, will the GOP and their flock oppose him ? Duckheads.”

Remind us how this clown disguised as a president was able to secure the Olympic Games for his beloved Chicago.

Clean energy

June 27th, 2012
4:45 pm

Heck, I’d just like us to hit the 20% electricity from nukes. That alone would cut carbon emissions tremendously, help slow/stop global warming (if humans are driving that), clean up the brown air outside, reduce our reliance on the always democratic Middle East.

JohnnyReb

June 27th, 2012
4:46 pm

Windmill power is blowing up the wrong tree for America.

Natural gas is much less costly and abundent.

T. Boone lost millions on windmill projects. He has changed his tune and is backing natural gas. He has a plan but is receiving oppostion from my party because they/Rebulicans want the energy solution to be driven by the free market. T. Boone’s plan would cut the projected time if market driven in half and not cost taxpayers. It also would reduce those old objectionable emmissions at the same time.

His plan is convert about 20K long haul diesel trucks to natural gas. Doing so would also drastically cut oil imports.

My money is on T.Boone, but the tree huggers have to get over the fact that fracking does not pollute the water.

MiltonMan

June 27th, 2012
4:48 pm

“Since we now live in a global economy, America also depends heavily on German economic strength. Couple that with their bold political leadership as contrasted to our gutless leaders and, after being defeated in two world wars, they just might wind up winning the world after all.”

How exactly does the US depend heavily on Germany??? Also, please ignore the Marshall Plan in which the US spent billions rebuilding Europe post-WWII.

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
4:49 pm

What are the effective tax rates for German corporations?

Do they pay their fair share?

Or are they just subsidized parasites like so many of ours?

With that information, I would be able to make a semi-educated guestimate as to whether giving them a break in this matter is warranted or not.

At any rate, the Germans are innovative, intelligent and visionary.

They are the anti-Republicans…

godless heathen

June 27th, 2012
4:50 pm

I admire the Germans and their commitment and glad they leading the way. If you want to get something done, from building fine motor cars to exterminating millions, sic the German engineers on it.

Steve - USA ("None of the Above")

June 27th, 2012
4:50 pm

Byte me -

So where’s the post of one of the usual suspect Lib’s saying they were against the German plan?

Bueller….Bueller….Bueller

So suddenly doubling residential bills to subsidize large corporations is a OK with the Libs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQ_Ja02gTY

Time to make Dinner. See ya!

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
4:51 pm

Let’s just ignore that Obama has cut NASA budget shall we?

And don’t forget to mention the reason why. The decision to end the Space Shuttle program was made during the previous administration. Once again, don’t fault Obama for following through with GW Bush’s promises and directives.

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
4:51 pm

I am not opposed to nuclear power plants int his country.

But I would never advocate letting the free market run them.

They will get us all killed in no time flat just to make the next quarter’s projections that Wall Street demands…

Jefferson

June 27th, 2012
4:53 pm

Milton, to put it nice youarefullofcrap. NASA cost money, I’m for spending it, you hate your president and want everything for free. Get over the hate and life is a highway.

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 27th, 2012
4:54 pm

Natural gas (and wind, and nuclear) are the smart solution for now

Solar is a money pit except for R&D

killerj

June 27th, 2012
4:56 pm

I,m not surprised,this small european country has come pretty close to ruling the world.

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 27th, 2012
4:56 pm

Jamvet’s 4:49 is the epitome of liberal insanity

godless heathen

June 27th, 2012
4:57 pm

“And don’t forget to mention the reason why. The decision to end the Space Shuttle program was made during the previous administration. ”

Obama scuttled the successor to the Shuttle program, Orion, I think it was called.

But that’s OK, we got private business flying supplies to the Space Station now.

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
5:00 pm

Speaking of forewarned idiots.

Carter told you losers what was coming and what did the addled Ronnie do?

He took those solar arrays off of the White House roof. Just so he could show his anti-intellectuals how being stupid was cool.

And back in the late 1970s some know nothing numbskull was saying, “Solar is a money pit except for R&D”.

Permanently stuck on stupid…

Road Scholar

June 27th, 2012
5:01 pm

Also Milton, the US would like to export our commodities. Do you think Germany buys any from us? Do you think a thriving Germany/Europe would buy more? Do you think?

Billybob

June 27th, 2012
5:02 pm

keep following the radical leftists ideology all the way to europe jay…..obama does want to cut this country down to size and wants us to be like europe and you blindly follow jay…..european socialist state on the way via the radical leftist democrat party…….all hail gov’t say the leftists…..no thanks

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 27th, 2012
5:02 pm

JohnnyReb

Tboones plan makes sense

We need the natural gas stations to fill up

Chicken egg problem, there is a small role available for government to temporarily play

The Snark

June 27th, 2012
5:04 pm

Matti:

Warum bleiben wir mit Neanderthal-denken? Weil wir SIND Neanherthals. Nur lesen Sie diesen Aussagen.

barking frog

June 27th, 2012
5:05 pm

Energiewende is
Pumpernickel.

Billybob

June 27th, 2012
5:06 pm

hey jay,
why would obama write and autobiography full of lies…..do you have a thought on that book…..did it help to create the false marketing campaign that axelrod divised to fool the american people into thinkinbg this guy is not who he is…..after 3.5 years of king hussein, is he the moderate that your leftist media ilk presented to the people? any thoughts
can you define shat obama meant when he said he wanted to ‘fundamentally change the US’?….

carlosgvv

June 27th, 2012
5:06 pm

MiltonMan – 4:48

Greece, a minor country compared to Germany, has sent shock waves thru Wall Street with it’s financial troubles. If an economically powerful European country like Germany suddenly tanked, we would definitely feel it big time here. Don’t you ever read of listen to the news?

As for the Marshall Plan, that was over SIXTY years ago. Today’s Germany bears no resemblance to the bombed out country we helped all those years ago.

Billybob

June 27th, 2012
5:07 pm

slippery keyboard today…..

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
5:10 pm

Fortunately for godless heathen, jm and JohnnyReb continue to provide no linkees.

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 27th, 2012
5:10 pm

Germany will go under if this plan comes to fruition

But it won’t (come to fruition)

Jay

June 27th, 2012
5:12 pm

Actually, Steve, since the average German uses about half the electricity of an American — in part because of efficiency, in part because of climate differences (less need for AC), it would be close to a wash if your grandfather had stayed put.

Billybob

June 27th, 2012
5:12 pm

jay,
the media will not be allowed to give obama a pass when europe goes down and blame our economy on them…….this economy is his and that fact will not be in question…..just thought i would head that off at the msnbc/media matters pass……funny how msnbc/nbc and liberal rags and leftist opinion guys like you all around the country seem to be in lock/step….almost like the radical leftist dictate is sent out to all at the same time and then broadcaste nationwide however libs think people will buy it in their area…..puppets are fun

Jeffrey

June 27th, 2012
5:13 pm

I’ve worked building green houses in Atlanta. I learned that in Germany any structure over 400 sq ft is to be built green. It can be done. And from a financial standpoint it makes sense because it really doesn’t cost much more.

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
5:14 pm

The GOP’s science advisor and braintrust, James Inhofe, says they don’t need no steenking green energy so long as there is an abundant supply of baked beans for him and his constituency.

Aloha Vampire

June 27th, 2012
5:14 pm

I know it’s 24hrs too early but I have to work tomorrow night and Johnny Cash said it best -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSWethcZOT4

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 27th, 2012
5:16 pm

Taxpayer go read the article

SwamiDave

June 27th, 2012
5:17 pm

Hopefully for the taxpayers of Germany, their leadership of is not following the Obama administration model of giving billions of dollars to political donors for programs that produce no results.

-D

Billybob

June 27th, 2012
5:20 pm

here’s a thought jay…why not suggest everyone turn their lights off at night throughout the nation in rural and metropolitan areas and you might be amazed how much less electricity might be used on a voluntary basis……or we can do it your way by having gov’t force compliance through dictate onto the people, right up hussein’s alley eh jay….bet i know which way the founders would like…..i myself will always put my faith into the people….when you are honest with them and give them a chance to do the right things, they will…..when liberals don’t like something they don’t want anyone else to do it either and they try foce that on them…..enough honesty about liberalism today jay……your wlecome

Aloha Vampire

June 27th, 2012
5:20 pm

Wow… I meant two days….

I’ve been working on a six day burn and don’t even know what day it is anymore.

Some folks work long hours and some folks blog all day and night cuz they ain’t working…..

Billybob

June 27th, 2012
5:20 pm

good one taxpayer….

Doggone/GA

June 27th, 2012
5:21 pm

“their leadership of is not following the Obama administration model of giving billions of dollars to political donors for programs that produce no results”

You do realize…don’t you?…that even if you repeat a lie 10,000 times it’s no more true at 10,000 than it was at 1

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 27th, 2012
5:21 pm

Taxpayer whines about links

When asked for a scientific link to back his position up, he provides a link to an advocacy group

Ok

MiltonMan

June 27th, 2012
5:21 pm

“Greece, a minor country compared to Germany, has sent shock waves thru Wall Street with it’s financial troubles. If an economically powerful European country like Germany suddenly tanked, we would definitely feel it big time here. Don’t you ever read of listen to the news?”

Using your bird brain logic, should we expect Germany to go under if they do not use wind power? Please, oh please, share with us why exactly Greece is such crappy shape? Could it be because the liberal benefit structure uh pal???

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
5:21 pm

Studies have proven that a primary source of human-induced global warming is CO2. And if only the cons would spare us from having to listen to their incessant moaning about how terrible their lives are without Bush, we could cut back on hot CO2 saturated air and the global warming problem could be solved.

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
5:22 pm

Meanwhile jm provides more of the same.

Joe Hussein Mama

June 27th, 2012
5:23 pm

Matti — “Ausgezeichnet! Sehr gut fur die Deutsche. Warum bleiben wir mit Neanderthal-denken?”

Ich liebe der denken von sie, Fraulein. :D

Loose translation for the German-impaired: I like the way you think, lady.

MiltonMan

June 27th, 2012
5:23 pm

“Studies have proven that a primary source of human-induced global warming is CO2. And if only the cons would spare us from having to listen to their incessant moaning about how terrible their lives are without Bush,…”

I for one am glad Bush is gone. You libs and your man are the ones who keep bringing up Bush all the time. I am starting to believe it is you guys who miss the clown.

Aloha Vampire

June 27th, 2012
5:23 pm

My response to TaxPayer -

Stop breathing… Your CO2 is killing the rest of us.

josef

June 27th, 2012
5:24 pm

MATTI ist auf dem richtigen Weg.

Erste, müssen wir in der deutschen beginnen zu bloggen ..

Erste, müssen wir auf Deutsch bloggen.

“Warum bleiben wir mit Neanderthal-denken?”

Vielleicht, sind wir nicht Cro-Magnon wie die Deutschen!

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
5:24 pm

jm apparently thinks that the EPA is an advocacy group.

Billybob

June 27th, 2012
5:25 pm

doggone,
their are stats showing who bundled for obama, then who met with obama numerous times at the white house and then who received numerous green energy grants and finally what a complete failure most of those businesses were…..2+2=4, not 5 sir…..

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
5:26 pm

If a vampire sighs “Aloha” on a mirror, is there anything there to see.

carlosgvv

June 27th, 2012
5:26 pm

THIS JUST IN

In Feb. or March, a Dekalb county official, in an e-mail describing the problems of a run down neighborhood, used the very old expression “barrel full of monkeys” to indicate the problems. Black community “activists” are now calling for his resignation. He has apologized saying he didn’t mean anything racial. The professional victims aren’t buying this, naturally, and will definitely stir up as much trouble as possible.

Whahema

June 27th, 2012
5:26 pm

In the US Obama is too busy giving out subsidies to companies that have poor prospects but good political connections to really accomplish anything meaningful.

Billybob

June 27th, 2012
5:26 pm

under obama the epa is absolutely and radical advocacy group

too little time

June 27th, 2012
5:27 pm

In part, by making residential customers and small business — captive users, in other words — pay the brunt of the increased cost, while largely exempting major industry.

and then some libtard comments:

A captive residential audience! I’m aghast! Republicans must be fuming at the prospect of such a thing occurring here, in the freedom states of America.

Seriously? You think that Democrats wouldn’t have a problem with giving business on pass on higher rates, and saddling consumers with the whole bill? I can here the howling from the left already! But what Democrats would do is to THEN go in and give those who currently pay no federal income tax a subsidy, thus pushing the ENTIRE bill to the same 51% of federal income taxpayers who already pay for everything else.

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
5:28 pm

Is MiltonMan also looking forward to an end to those Bush tax cuts so we can get to paying down our debt.

Adam

June 27th, 2012
5:28 pm

I for one am glad Bush is gone. …. I am starting to believe it is you guys who miss the clown.

So then you’re not voting for Romney, who will basically do what Bush did only even more of it?

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 27th, 2012
5:30 pm

A/C is a vicious circle

What u gonna do?

A/C R&D needed

Moderate Line

June 27th, 2012
5:30 pm

How can Germany hope to pull off such a feat without driving electricity prices so high that industry is forced to leave? In part, by making residential customers and small business — captive users, in other words — pay the brunt of the increased cost, while largely exempting major industry.
+++++
Is that not coporate welfare which Dems are against. Plus that is not keeping prices low that is make one person pay for someone else power use.

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
5:31 pm

But that’s OK, we got private business flying supplies to the Space Station now.

Doesn’t it fit conservative logic that:

(a) The private sector can perform non-governmental functions better and more efficiently than the public sector

and

(b) Private sector spending on non-Constitutional things is better than public sector spending.

And they accuse Obama of being some far-Left Liberal… :lol:

josef

June 27th, 2012
5:32 pm

Oops

That should read

Erste, müssen wir in der deutschen beginnen zu bloggen UND DANN zweite müssen wir auf Deutsch bloggen.

:-)

Joe Hussein Mama

June 27th, 2012
5:33 pm

What happened to the America that used to build remarkable things and undertake incredible challenges? It should be us taking on this energy challenge, not the Germans. It should be a national challenge on the scale of President Kennedy’s “we choose to go to the moon and to do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard” speech.

Not every alternative energy source is going to work everywhere, but solar will work in the Sun Belt. Wind turbines willl work in the Great Plains. And I’m not opposed to next-generation nuclear, especially the technologies like pebble-bed reactors, which are FAR safer than the plants than came online in the 70s.

Just think — if we could squeeze out 10% of our energy needs from solar, 10% from wind, 10% more from nuclear, 10% more from natural gas and 10% from squeezing efficiencies out of what we’re already doing, that’s *half* of our national energy needs covered before we even have to start talking about petroleum.

Don’t you LIKE the idea of spending less on buying oil from people who hate us? I sure do.

Come on. We can do this. All the other forms of energy get subsidies — petroleum and nuclear *especiallly* get massive subsidies of taxpayer money. So why can’t we get up some national will and make this happen for the benefit of the entire country?

Adam

June 27th, 2012
5:33 pm

The private sector can perform non-governmental functions better and more efficiently than the public sector

Interesting. You put “non-governmental” in there. Usually they leave that part out.

Aloha Vampire

June 27th, 2012
5:34 pm

T-Splost ist ein Betrug!

td

June 27th, 2012
5:35 pm

We should be supporting all energy alternatives as well as oil, HG and Nuclear.

Adam

June 27th, 2012
5:35 pm

JHM: What happened to the America that used to build remarkable things and undertake incredible challenges? It should be us taking on this energy challenge, not the Germans.

To be fair, from a practical standpoint it makes sense to let other countries do the hard part and then steal their finished product. Other countries have done that. Of course they are also raising children with quality education whereas we keep cutting education so I don’t have particular confidence in reverse engineering. The U.S. will have to be more sneaky about how to steal the technology.

Adam

June 27th, 2012
5:36 pm

td: We should be supporting all energy alternatives as well as oil, HG and Nuclear.

I don’t think you get what is meant by “alternatives” in the minds of most Americans. It’s darn near a slur for the Fox crowd!

Adam

June 27th, 2012
5:37 pm

So recap: Good news this month, housing sales are up. Bad news: Gas prices are down. I think both have to do with jobs and both have to be up in order for us to generate a good jobs report.

Eric

June 27th, 2012
5:38 pm

How do you say this in “American?” Seriously…??? American is not a language. Here we speak English. For an opinon column writer you sure turned out to be a moron.

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
5:38 pm

Billybob, wft are you talking about? (As though you have some cogent and legitimate point.)

At least post some semi-intelligent specifics to support your fact-free assertions.

Even once in a blue moon.

Is that too much to ask?

Is it even possible for you to do such a thing?

I don’t think so.

I do not recall one instance where you have ever done so.

Absurd, but typical of right wing bloggers here…

Aloha Vampire

June 27th, 2012
5:39 pm

Die Braunhemden, die ihre Agenda durchzusetzen am Deutschen benutzt haben, um die Demokratische Partei ausgewandert. All diejenigen, die die progressive Agenda zu widersetzen wagen muss aufgerundet und an den Lagern. Wagen Sie es nicht in Frage zu dem Präsidenten oder seinem Agenten. Die Öfen richtig heiß!

Joe Hussein Mama

June 27th, 2012
5:41 pm

Adam — “To be fair, from a practical standpoint it makes sense to let other countries do the hard part and then steal their finished product. Other countries have done that.”

Indeed. The Soviet Buran shuttle looked *just* like our Space Shuttle, but was smaller.

The Chinese manned space vehicles look *remarkably* like early Soviet ships; the Chinese ships being less rounded and more faceted.

And the recently-put-to-sea first Chinese aircraft carrier actually *was* a Russian carrier when her keel was first laid down; the Chinese bought the hull from Ukraine, fitted her out and have been testing her at sea. The Chinese are expected to put the carrier into active service later this year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_aircraft_carrier_Varyag

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
5:41 pm

Adam

I’m only interested in relaying truthisms and not merely rhetoric. ;)

—————

What happened to the America that used to build remarkable things and undertake incredible challenges?

In short, we busted up and outsourced that b***h a long time ago. We’re all about financial transactions. We want to make money, not sweat.

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
5:42 pm

The U.S. will have to be more sneaky about how to steal the technology.

Or we could just openly trade drones, stealth technology, and other weapons for new green technology. After all, we may as well get some benefit from that 750 billion dollar annual DoD tax expenditure.

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
5:44 pm

American is not a language. Here we speak English.

And American English is not your standard English either. Not all “English” languages are the same. Dialects, accents, and slanguistics tend to break them up. I bet you didn’t even know that all Spanish was the same. Mexican Spanish is different from European Spanish which is also different from Puerto Rican Spanish.

I can’t explain it in detail, but I’m sure the blog’s resident linguist will back me up on that.

josef

June 27th, 2012
5:45 pm

More on topic, I fail to understand this “German envy” we seem to have embarked on. We might be doing better ourselves if we had leveled the place to where there was no brick on stone, and then, courtesy those who did the destruction, have rebuilt our aging infrastructure with the latest and most modern. It gave them quite the leg up in the long run. Credit where credit is due, they’ve also done a pretty good job of taking that and running with it.

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
5:46 pm

Vampires suck.

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
5:47 pm

Eric, you are dumber than a bag of hammers.

Seriously. That you don’t “get” what is patently obvious is amazing.

But you must have been a huge hit in the seventh grade.

barking frog

June 27th, 2012
5:47 pm

Werewolves bite.

Oscar

June 27th, 2012
5:50 pm

Twenty per cent from wind and solor is pretty impressive. No reason why we can’t do that, or better. It will take some govrt. investment in research and development.

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
5:50 pm

JamVet

Be nice!!!

pogo

June 27th, 2012
5:51 pm

One must understand that Germany does not have natural gas resources. They must import the natural gas (mainly from Russia) that they use at a very high price. If they exclude Nuclear, what else can they resort to? Lignite coal burning and renewables are apparently their only choice. The true test of their strategy is going to be just how much those small rate payers in Germany are willing to shoulder to follow an energy strategy that has no scientific foundation (much as Obama and his Green Energy programs have here) without blowing billions of their taxpayer dollars.

What is really interesting is that James Lovelock, the inventor of the Gaia theory, is now saying that re-newables are a fools dream. He does not totally discount them but he thinks the technology is some some 40-50 years out yet and that we must rely and take advantage of those energy sources that we know can meet the demand now. INuclear being a main player. In fact he went further and said in an interview with the Guardian, he embraced fracking for natural gas, scorned renewables and castigated the Germans for shutting down their nukes in favor of lignite, a low-grade coal, for electricity generation. He also went on to say that windmills are a total waste of ever decreasing taxpayer dollars and that he hated them. They are environmentally damaging (they kill millions of birds), they make terrible noise pollution and they are very expensive to maintain for the amount of power they produce.

So Jay,one of your own (Loevelock) who Al Gore cut his global warming teeth on and which he garned much of his theory (whatever that is) from has now changed his position on the liberal environmentalist fairy tales. He has learned and he has changed his opinion, as any learned man of science should. He also castigated the Global Warming movement as transitioning from the scientific method to just promoting just another political religion meant to pacify the environmentalist and progressive crowd. Lovelock is a man that has devoted his entire life to the protection of this planet and its people and knows far more about the environment than Al Gore or any of us. The environment has been this mans life.

Also Jay, Merkel is still devoted to austerity in Europe as she should be. Even under the pressure from socialist economists and socialist leaders (Obama) she still is sticking to her guns. How dare you as a lap dog liberal glorify such an anti-progressive leader such as her?

josef

June 27th, 2012
5:52 pm

BROSEPHUS

We have three standard dialects of American English: New England, Mid Atlantic, and Southern. Additionally there are literally hundreds of non standard dialects and sub dialects. The English language is spoken around the world as the language of daily discourse over a wider area than any other and is influenced by local needs.

If someone wants to question someone saying “speak American” and then “correct” them to say we speak “English,” the logical next question is which American English…

Oscar

June 27th, 2012
5:53 pm

Americans are still willing to sweat. JUst not for three dollars a day like they have been doing in Asia. But, the Asians are wising up, they want more money the the leaders realize they have to pay them more to have some domestic demand. Can’t rely on shipping everying over here any more. We are out of cash and credit is maxed out.

Oscar

June 27th, 2012
5:55 pm

If someone wants to question someone saying “speak American” and then “correct” them to say we speak “English,” the logical next question is which American English…

___

There is also the Appalachian dialect running from Maine to Alabama. With a lot of sub=dialects. One in each valley all the way down, or up.

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
5:56 pm

You’re right, Bro.

Just dog tired and still working like a maniac on the other screen.

Plus I tore my plantar fascia playing soccer with the boys last night and my foot hurts like a _____________!!

Time to heal my savage breast…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPrHaB8KCIk

Aloha Vampire

June 27th, 2012
5:57 pm

Vampires may suck but haters swallow.

Get a job u wingnut — aka TaxPayer.

Obama can’t claim executive privilege in dis blog.

Oscar

June 27th, 2012
5:58 pm

I bet you didn’t even know that all Spanish was the same.
_________

You mean all spanish is not the same. Different type in central and south america. Very much different.

weetamoe

June 27th, 2012
5:58 pm

German workers willingly worked shorter hours with corresponding cuts in wages so that coworkers would not face layoffs. Germans are the most innovative, industrious workers in the west. German manufactured scientific products are considered the best and are in demand. Though Angela Merkel is being smeared by Americans like Paul Krugman and by fellow eurozone slacker countries, her courage to stand by an austerity program and to so far resist demands that she *share* the hard earned fruits of German work ethic and thrift make her a model for the whiners and shiftless.

carlosgvv

June 27th, 2012
5:59 pm

MiltonMan – 5:21

My post is about what would happen if Germany’s economy went sour. It was NOT about WHY it is happening in Greece or WHY it might happen in Germany. Looks like your Christian Academy education didn’t include reading comprehension.

Oscar

June 27th, 2012
6:00 pm

Time for Greece and most of southern Europe to exit the Euro zone. Or else draft a constitution and form a federation. there are several good forms around the could copy.

Oscar

June 27th, 2012
6:01 pm

My post is about what would happen if Germany’s economy went sour

________

That’s something we don’t want to find out. things would be bad here and all over..

Joe Hussein Mama

June 27th, 2012
6:01 pm

pogo — “He also went on to say that windmills are a total waste of ever decreasing taxpayer dollars and that he hated them. They are environmentally damaging (they kill millions of birds)”

Wrong.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/wind-turbine-kill-birds.htm

“they make terrible noise pollution”

Wrong.

Ever stood right under one when it was up to full speed? One about 150 feet tall?

I have. A mile away, you won’t hear it.

“and they are very expensive to maintain for the amount of power they produce.”

How expensive was this for the amount of power it produced?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill

josef

June 27th, 2012
6:06 pm

OSCAR

Both Unmentionable and I grew up in bi-dialectical homes, “Appalachian” on one side, and “Louisiana” on the other. We use both at home, and Standard Southern for our public needs. But even in our home dialects, there is a strong distinction between us given where our parents are from.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
6:07 pm

Pogo

Lovelock has tempered what he calls an “alarmist” way of thinking on climate change, however he still says it is ocurring.

Nice try to distort what he now believes.

“Lovelock, 92, is writing a new book in which he will say climate change is still happening, but not as quickly as he once feared.

Asked if he was now a climate skeptic, Lovelock told msnbc.com: “It depends what you mean by a skeptic. I’m not a denier.”

If facts EVER become your friend, you will probably will not now how to act

;-)

Until that time, carry on with your typical crap and let me know if I can assist you with the truth that seems to escape you the vast majority of the time

Billybob

June 27th, 2012
6:09 pm

jam,
somebody needs a time out…..or a hug, either way enjoy the conservative beatdown in nov….

Matti

June 27th, 2012
6:10 pm

Tatsächlich….

Wir sind alle lauter arme kleine Würstchen. (It’s a song, y’all.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-r4usrAUDs

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
6:11 pm

Billbob

Winning the majority and maybe all of the south, does not an election make

:-)

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
6:12 pm

Adam

June 27th, 2012
6:13 pm

TaxPayer: We are SO not trading our advanced tech for green tech. No freakin way. And I’m not comfortable with the idea either.

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 27th, 2012
6:13 pm

Actuallyit probably makes more sense for Germany to exit the eurozone

Call it national galtism

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
6:17 pm

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
6:20 pm

Vampires eventually grow to hate their immortality.

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
6:20 pm

bb, watching you spit and sputter after said beatdown will be priceless.

There wont be enough popcorn for sale!

And unlike last time when I played it very low key (cuz I respected John McCain quite a lot), I have no such reservations about this joke of a fraud of a dopey candidate that you are running this year.

So this time around, I’m gonna have BIG fun with you arch-conservatives…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shgSLKb-onA

Matti

June 27th, 2012
6:20 pm

Translation:

“We are all sad, sorry little sausages.”

josef

June 27th, 2012
6:20 pm

MATTI

Meine Wurst ist nicht kleine, frag Bruno! :-)

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
6:22 pm

So Congress votes to find Holder in contempt of Congress. So the Justice Department under Eric Holder is going to do what? Prosecute Eric Holder? Get real!

What a big, fat waste of time and effort when they could be focusing on something productive. What a bunch of completely stupid idiots the RepugNOwecan’ts are.

GT

June 27th, 2012
6:24 pm

A little like the space race only Germany instead of Russia. Some states in this country have a 20% mandate before some year in the future. Does Georgia,
? Nope. Energy is so cheap here that they can’t picture it ever running out and anyone that suggest it is a communist. Who do you think will be the leaders of the next century? Won’t be Georgia,but no one expected it to be. If illegals become a problem in the next 10 years we got it covered but anything above that is above its pay scale.

Paul

June 27th, 2012
6:24 pm

Leadership. Laying out a vision and herding the cats towards the goal.

Try it here and the Republican Congress whines “but where’s the plan? Waahhh…. Tell me what to do….. wahhhh…..”

So what are the benefits? A lot less impact if there’s another Libyan situation. Not being captive to Iranian threats. What’s America’s solution? Spend trillions on the Pentagon, use the stuff up and spend billions more. Brilliant.

This is rather a repeat of the quality improvement/process improvement efforts that began in the 90s here. Initial read was “so what if the Japanese do it and their cars knock the socks off ours with quality ratings. It’d cost too much, take too much time, it’s not adaptable to here…” Yet the latest JD Powers sees staggering quality improvements compared to them and in many cases it’s on a level with the Japanese.

Much of this resistance comes from hostility to science (global warming is not real!!!), a campaign-slogan reflexive convulsion against ‘government control’ and a ‘dam the costs, our goal is to defeat the incumbent’ attitude.

Sad to think we’re not as good as the Germans at planning, innovating and leading towards the future.

getalife

June 27th, 2012
6:25 pm

Good for Germany.

I guess big oil did not make ads against it.

We can’t do that here because of the gop and big oil.
I

Thomas

June 27th, 2012
6:25 pm

Jay likes Germans
Liberals like Jay
Hitler was a chancellor of Germany
Hitler was a racist
All liberals including Jay are therefore racist

A lot of neocons drive BMWs and Mercedes
They are made in Germany
…..

everyone is a racist I suppose

Anyway- Still laugh at the 100 million incentive by McCain to invent a longer lasting battery.

Germany has an incredible economy bolstered by a strong focus on engineering. They always have- since the paleolithic era.

Jay- you are stating the obvious in your column. A nice follow up would be Brazil which in the 70s went down the path of energy independence. Last time I checked- the ol’ Brazilians are doing pretty well.

Lastly- Romney sucks. He is awful and I have noted 666 on his receding hair line.

Obama is over

June 27th, 2012
6:26 pm

Schadenfreude is probably a more appropriate German word for this blog.

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
6:28 pm

“Meine Wurst ist nicht kleine, frag Bruno!”

I wouldn’t touch that with a . . . well, I just wouldn’t touch it!

RB from Gwinnett

June 27th, 2012
6:28 pm

Jay, if the average American lived in an 800 square-foot apartment and didn’t have air-conditioning, our power bills would be half what they are too. We’re not interested in that standard of living. No thank you.

Paul

June 27th, 2012
6:29 pm

josef

“We might be doing better ourselves if we had leveled the place to where there was no brick on stone, and then, courtesy those who did the destruction, have rebuilt our aging infrastructure with the latest and most modern. It gave them quite the leg up in the long run”

In all fairness, East Germany was quite the albatross when unification occurred. The investment costs were staggering. But they made it happen.

pogo

Good point about natural gas. But what do we do here? Run from it every time the market fluctuates.

JamVet

Ibuprofen is your friend -

Paulo977

June 27th, 2012
6:30 pm

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
5:44 pm

_____________________________________

Is it any wonder that we are so IGNORANT of what drives the issues here??????

Mighty Righty

June 27th, 2012
6:30 pm

Sadly, that capability seems to have atrophied on this side of the Atlantic.

And thank God for that. It is always better to be a settler than a pioneer. The pioneers are the ones with the arrows in their backs. Let the Germans use their capital and failures to discover whether their idea is even feasible. We should encourage them in their quest to be first. Let them suffer the slings and arrows of disapointmnet while we settle for being best.

Matti

June 27th, 2012
6:30 pm

josef,

Warum gibt Männer immer die Wurst Witzen? Wann ich bin hungrig, ich hätte lieber die Schnitzel mit Kartoffelsalat.

barking frog

June 27th, 2012
6:31 pm

Yo no soy un chorizo.

getalife

June 27th, 2012
6:32 pm

Germany is progressive.

Our President has to quietly invest in green energy.

Don’t tell any cons.

godless heathen

June 27th, 2012
6:33 pm

“Sad to think we’re not as good as the Germans at planning, innovating and leading towards the future.”

But we have more diversity and isn’t that what counts?

godless heathen

June 27th, 2012
6:35 pm

Our President has to quietly invest in green energy.

He can invest his money into whatever he wants.

Adam

June 27th, 2012
6:36 pm

RB: Jay, if the average American lived in an 800 square-foot apartment and didn’t have air-conditioning, our power bills would be half what they are too. We’re not interested in that standard of living. No thank you.

Hey, either you accept a lower standard of living or you stop fighting unions, government labor laws, and minimum wage. Your choice.

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 27th, 2012
6:36 pm

Pleasant weather here, 80’s…. :)

josef

June 27th, 2012
6:37 pm

Thomas Heyward Jr.

June 27th, 2012
6:37 pm

Higher utility bills?
.
Arbeit Macht Frei
.
All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.
.
Its all for the collective.

The Gov has no Money!

June 27th, 2012
6:37 pm

It is refreshing to see a government in action. Getting things done. On the other hand, our government is at its best these days when they are in recess. Action by our elected leaders usually is bad news for us little people.

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
6:39 pm

Germany is progressive.

Our President has to quietly invest in green energy.

Don’t tell any cons.

Then again, we could just tell the cons that those windmills are actually the latest in oil pumps and they’ll buy right into it. No questions asked.

barking frog

June 27th, 2012
6:42 pm

godless
Germany tried to take
Europe with the Euro.
England resisted. Germany
is now hung with Europe
and must support them
or go down with them.
Not good planning.

Matti

June 27th, 2012
6:42 pm

Action by our elected leaders usually is bad news for us little people.

That’s because the little people became complacent over the years, leaving the important decisions to the suits we “trusted” to handle things, so we wouldn’t have to think about it. We have circuses to attend, after all. I hear they’re giving away bread!

Michael

June 27th, 2012
6:42 pm

In 1961 Kennedy said we should send a man to the moon and return him safely within 10 years. And we did. Nixon was sitting in the White House during the moon landing and began to scale back NASA.
In 1981 Reagan said the government is the problem. So, the government that won WWII, developed nuclear power and weapons, passed the Marshall plan and the GI Bill was a problem and not part of the solution.
So, now we find enough money for prisons but not for schools. Germany, which is poorly located for solar power, is more aggressive than our country, which has a huge desert.
Maybe it’s the highly unionized workforce and the moderately paid CEOs that are working together to move Germany forward, while we work for a cut on the financial transactions.

josef

June 27th, 2012
6:42 pm

MATTI

Deine Hände weg von meinen Kartoffeln und Schnitzel …Nazifrau! :-)

Adam

June 27th, 2012
6:44 pm

Matti: Let them eat cake

josef

June 27th, 2012
6:45 pm

PAUL

You make a point good on East Germany, but they had the economic wherewithal and the will to (peacefully) level that infrastructure and replace it with an even more modern one than in the west…

Matti

June 27th, 2012
6:45 pm

Frog: Yo no soy un chorizo.

Rechts. Sondern, du bist doch eine Dichter. ;)

Erwin's cat

June 27th, 2012
6:46 pm

Newclear is the only real option an the moment…and it’s green 8)

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 27th, 2012
6:46 pm

I wonder how many words jay’s obamacare post will be

8000?

Over under?

Jay

June 27th, 2012
6:47 pm

“Jay, if the average American lived in an 800 square-foot apartment and didn’t have air-conditioning, our power bills would be half what they are too. We’re not interested in that standard of living. No thank you.

RB, clearly you have no idea how well the average German lives.

Towncrier

June 27th, 2012
6:49 pm

“But as an American, I’m even more impressed with the fact that their political leadership is capable of undertaking such a bold campaign, with support across the political spectrum. Sadly, that capability seems to have atrophied on this side of the Atlantic.”

With respect to developing a viable alternative energy source, I would argue that capability did not atrophy at all as it never existed – or if it did, it was well before the oil embargo of 1973.

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 27th, 2012
6:50 pm

Germany can exit the euro with minor pain

Erwin's cat

June 27th, 2012
6:51 pm

I take that back…I remember a paper that cited that if we all had a combo of solar, wind, geotherm and whatever else at our own individual homes all tied to a smart grid, large segments could be almost self sufficient and eventually put the big power companies outta biz

Mighty Righty

June 27th, 2012
6:52 pm

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
6:17 pm
The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal from the Las Angeles Times

Furious Fast and Furious weapons were found in Mexico cartel enforcer’s home
Guns illegally purchased under the ATF operation were found in April hidden in violence-plagued Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, court records show.
October 08, 2011|By Richard A. Serrano, Washington Bureau

Comments0Share26This arsenal uncovered by police in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, in April turned… (Associated Press )Reporting from Washington — High-powered assault weapons illegally purchased under the ATF’s Fast and Furious program in Phoenix ended up in a home belonging to the purported top Sinaloa cartel enforcer in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, whose organization was terrorizing that city with the worst violence in the Mexican drug wars.

100 assault weapons acquired under Fast and Furious were transported 350 miles from Phoenix to El Paso, making that West Texas city a central hub for gun traffickers. Forty of the weapons made it across the border and into the arsenal of Jose Antonio Torres Marrufo, a feared cartel leader in Ciudad Juarez, according to federal court records and trace documents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The smugglers’ tactics — quickly moving the weapons far from ATF agents in southern Arizona, where it had been assumed they would circulate — vividly demonstrate that what had been viewed as a local problem was much larger. Six other Fast and Furious guns destined for El Paso were recovered in Columbus, N.M.

“These Fast and Furious guns were going to Sinaloans, and they are killing everyone down there,” said one knowledgeable U.S. government source, who asked for anonymity because of the ongoing investigations. “But that’s only how many we know came through Texas. Hundreds more had to get through.”

Torres Marrufo, also known as “the Jaguar,” has been identified by U.S. authorities as the enforcer for Sinaloa cartel chieftain Joaquin “Chapo” Guzman. The Fast and Furious weapons were found at one of Torres Marrufo’s homes April 30 when Mexican police inspected the property. It was unoccupied but “showed signs of recent activity,” they said.

The basement had been converted into a gym with a wall covered with built-in mirrors. Behind the mirrors they found a hidden room with the Fast and Furious weapons and dozens more, including an antiaircraft machine gun, a sniper rifle and a grenade launcher.

“We have seized the most important cache of weapons in the history of Ciudad Juarez,” Chihuahua state Gov. Cesar Duarte said at the time, though he did not know that many of the weapons came from the U.S. and Fast and Furious.

Torres Marrufo has been indicted in El Paso, but authorities have been unable to locate and arrest him.

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
6:53 pm

“Action by our elected leaders usually is bad news for us little people.”

True.

Because a whole sh*tload of Americans have been completely content to sit on our arses and let the fat cats and the corporations buy and run our government.

And even worse, a sizable chunk of us types actually pitch a sh*tfit when decent, hard working people finally have had enough and stand up to the tiny few power brokers and bailed out banksters and say, “Enough is enough!” Forty years of f&cking us is NOT OK!

You figure it out, I cannot.

I mean, if you choose to be a servile coward hoping for Donald Trump’s crumbs, fine.

Just get the hell out of the way of those who aren’t and shut the ____ up…

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
6:55 pm

The true test of their strategy is going to be just how much those small rate payers in Germany are willing to shoulder to follow an energy strategy that has no scientific foundation (much as Obama and his Green Energy programs have here) without blowing billions of their taxpayer dollars.

Germany’s already subsidized solar installation to the point where they have to shutter power plant when solar generation is at it’s peak as their current power grid can’t handle the surge. I was there in 2010, and everywhere you went throughout the countryside there were solar panels on homes, buildings, and damn near anything that would support them. Not to mention the number of windmills I saw towering over the fields growing hops.

I’d say Germany has a decidely huge lead on the US in the area of generating green energy.

—————-

Oscar @ 5:58

Thanks for the correction. That was what I meant to say. :oops:

—————-

German workers willingly worked shorter hours with corresponding cuts in wages so that coworkers would not face layoffs.

That was one of the primary reasons their economy recovered much faster than ours did after 2008. More people working with more money to spend kinda helps aid a recovering economy. The last thing you need to spur recovery is job/benefit cuts along with government spending cuts. Less consumption is never a remedy for a slowed consumption-based economy.

—————-

Paulo @ 6:30

I used to wonder. I simply began to sit back, observe, and take notes. The answers were revealed to me then.

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
6:57 pm

“RB, clearly you have no idea how well the average German lives.”

He should ask Jm about his numerous and extensive “travels to Europe”.

LOL…

josef

June 27th, 2012
7:01 pm

PAUL

Caught that one downstairs…

My mother made me a homosexual, and if you give her some yarn she’ll make you one, too! :-)

curious

June 27th, 2012
7:01 pm

Weren’t those weapons sold legally? If they where “fully” automatic (Class 3), they could not be sold legally unless a local law enforcement offical signed off on the transfer that had to be submitted to ATF, transfer tax paid, and approved.

This is all a bunch of baloney. It’s just a Kangaroo Court.

The Germans will own this World.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

June 27th, 2012
7:01 pm

Say it? Heck, I can’t even spell it. Anyway, I don’t see what’s wrong with just keeping on burning coal or oil or gas. We got about 100 years worth of coal in the ground and they won’t let us use it. And all because a bunch of egg-heads are complaining about a little sulphur or a few cases of cancer and such. What kind of weenies have we become? Besides, if we used coal the libruls wouldn’t be able to use that carbon trading crap they want to spring on us.

Anyhow, I can’t think of nothing but what’s going to happen to Obamacare tomorrow morning. If the SC says it’s OK then I’ll know I live in a Socialist country where they rob what I make to pay for somebody else’s Drs. bills. Somebody else being Those People and the Gays and the Hippies and the lazy bums that won’t go out and find a job. The SC’s got this big secret they’ve been keeping for months and there ain’t a leak in sight. What’s wrong with this unAmerican Supreme Court? Everybody leaks but them. Heck, I sometimes leak a little before I can get to a bathroom. It’s torture, I tell you. We’re being led along. It’s like not being told what day you’re going to be strapped on a gurney to get a needle.

Anyhow, I sure hope I won’t be reading the gnashing of teeth and whining from the Right sometime after 10 a.m. tomorrow. Just for this, we ought to hold this Holder in Contempt of Congress and send the cops to arrest him and make him do the Perp Walk.

You can bet I won’t be sleeping too good tonight. And Bookman’s got the nerve to put out a dull column about how the Socialist Germans are going all Green on us. God bless the Republican Party America and have a good night everybody.

Erwin's cat

June 27th, 2012
7:02 pm

RB, “clearly you have no idea how well the average German lives.”
skinny jeans, black poly, and Eric Estrada sun glasses

Towncrier

June 27th, 2012
7:02 pm

“I mean, if you choose to be a servile coward hoping for Donald Trump’s crumbs, fine.”

How about for George Soros?

Mighty Righty

June 27th, 2012
7:02 pm

According to Der Speigel

The average German…

· Has sex 117 times a year
· Wakes up at 6.23am
· Travels 24.5 miles a day
· Works 30.3 hours a week (41.4 hours in 1960)
· Drives a six-year-old silver metallic Volkswagen Golf which is washed nine times a year
· Walks towards the right when entering a shop
· Considers price to be more important than quality when shopping
· Has 971 sq ft of living space (a family of 2.2 people) which costs €408 a month in rent
· Dreams of stripping the woodchip wallpaper and laying down cherry or walnut parquet
· Takes 15 minutes to fall asleep
· Earns € 3,702 a month

F. Sinkwich

June 27th, 2012
7:03 pm

Oh, good. Another blog trying justify boondoggles like Solyndra.

Cash for clunkers, anyone?

How about stroking a check for $7500 to eco-weenies who buy that POS Volt?

Meanwhile, back at the ranch:

“Washington – The number of U.S. businesses with paid employees fell for a third straight year in 2010, but the rate of decrease slowed, the Census Bureau said on Tuesday. U.S. businesses numbered 7.4 million in 2010, down by 36,800 from the previous year.”

Priorities, people, priorities…

Paul

June 27th, 2012
7:03 pm

josef

Let stuff rattle around in the noggin’ and eventually the light comes on!

:-)

_______________________________________________________________________________

I’d really have thought that more of our conservative bloggers would’ve keyed in on the “the German gov’t exempted corporations from the cost and shifted it onto the working class.”

I’da thought they’d have been all over that, supporting it… before they even knew what the topic was.

Erwin's cat

June 27th, 2012
7:06 pm

before you decide to follow Germany’s lead…be aware, the worship David Hasselholf (sp?)…just sayin…and don’t forget France and their admiration for early Jerry Lewis

Mighty Righty

June 27th, 2012
7:06 pm

Redneck Convert (R–and proud of it)

Just remember the greens are getting rich on the hoax called global warming. The Solyndra scandal is merely a ti of the ice berg and like an ice berg the profits are hidden so the “commoners” wont see.

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
7:07 pm

TC, fine if that is your choice.

Cons hate Europeans and love smog.

Paul

June 27th, 2012
7:08 pm

Off Topic

Redneck’s post reminded me. Possibly Justice Kennedy will come through tomorrow. What I’d really like to see is that, plus Justice Roberts. For all his concern about depoliticizing the Court, not having narrow splits on major decisions, not having the Court aligned into two blocks identifiable as Liberal – Conservative… maybe, just maybe, he’ll secure his legacy and, with or without Kennedy, will vote to uphold.

josef

June 27th, 2012
7:09 pm

PAUL

I’m slow on the uptake! I’m on vacation…

Boris Badnoff

June 27th, 2012
7:09 pm

Now for some intelligent commentary on Wind Power

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100167303/aussies-drive-another-stake-into-the-heart-of-the-wind-farm-vampire/

What does one do when the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t shine? Call on Our Beloved Messiah of course. His mere presence causes solar panels to generate megawatts and when you need wind there is no equal.

The real secret to our energy crisis is lightning bugs in mayonnaise jars.

Paul

June 27th, 2012
7:09 pm

Hey Sinkwich!!!!

Gas is down about a nickel in the Dallas area the last couple of days!

Is it down in your area, too?

So when are you going to give a rousing “Thanks, President Obama!!”????????????????????????

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
7:10 pm

“the hoax called global warming.”

Neocons are a trip, huh?

They have never found an overwhelming consensus that they couldn’t completely ignore.

Because they know so much more that the world’s brightest minds and scientific experts.

(Rush Limbaugh tells them the truth.)

Towncrier

June 27th, 2012
7:10 pm

“…he’ll secure his legacy…”

By voting the way you think he should?

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 27th, 2012
7:11 pm

I rather like Germany

They will shift gears later and end the insanity

Only after they lose a ton of money though

But Germans do this on a regular cycle but they can afford it

Last wave was tax credits in east Germany

Huge money wasted then too

Eventually they stop the stupidity after realizing the error

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
7:16 pm

Weren’t those weapons sold legally? If they where “fully” automatic (Class 3), they could not be sold legally unless a local law enforcement offical signed off on the transfer that had to be submitted to ATF, transfer tax paid, and approved.

SHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Most people know that the guns were “legally” purchased. When laws are as lax as they are in Arizona, it’s really no surprise. You really don’t want them to know that the ATF could do nothing more than record serial numbers of guns AFTER they were purchased. In Texas, with slightly different gun laws, the ATF actually seized Arizona purchased guns that were heading to Mexico. Had those smugglers simply crossed the border in Arizona, there was no legal way for the ATF to seize them unless they shot somebody on their way to Mexico.

It’s better to leave the facade that the ATF was sitting across the street from the gun stores watching the transactions and then following the vehicle all the way to the border. :lol:

Paul

June 27th, 2012
7:17 pm

““the hoax called global warming.””

“This is how science works. EPA is not required to re-prove the existence of the atom every time it approaches a scientific question.”

The Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit

http://www.mlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2012/06/post_89.html

Paul

June 27th, 2012
7:19 pm

Towncrier

By acting to achieve that which he has stated as the ideal – persuading justices to break out of their Liberal – Conservative identities and defuse the perceived politicization of the Court.

Which is what I wrote the first time.

Disgusted

June 27th, 2012
7:19 pm

maybe, just maybe, he’ll secure his legacy and, with or without Kennedy, will vote to uphold.

One veteran SC watcher tonight predicts that it will be upheld, but with a warning that the mandate can apply only to healthcare because of healthcare’s uniqueness and that Congress should not use such a mandate for other commercial services.

Towncrier

June 27th, 2012
7:19 pm

From the AP:

“…Issa wants internal communications from February 2011, when the administration denied knowledge of gun-walking, to the end of that year, when officials acknowledged the denial was erroneous. Those documents covered a period after Fast and Furious had been shut down.”

Why is that request unreasonable given the contradiction in testimony?

F. Sinkwich

June 27th, 2012
7:20 pm

“The real secret to our energy crisis is lightning bugs in mayonnaise jars.”

Good point.

Also, the war on fossils fuels O’bozo is waging will drive this great nation closer to third world status, which is O’bozo’s goal.

He hates prosperity. He hates our status as the world’s only superpower.

He hates the USA.

Prove me wrong, lib ilks. Demonstrate some actions, not words.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
7:20 pm

Bro @ 7:16

When one willing allows themselves to be fed “talking points” instead of “thinking points” then they proceed to regurgitate it all over the blog, you get we what get from too many bloggers each day……….

:-)

Towncrier

June 27th, 2012
7:21 pm

“Which is what I wrote the first time.”

Where, in any of his idealization, did he speak of securing his legacy? That was YOUR value-added statement, which I was bringing to light.

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
7:23 pm

Why is that request unreasonable given the contradiction in testimony?

Seems that the contradiction in the testimony kinda matches the story from the “other side” that Holder and others were unaware of the gun walking until they were briefed on it AFTER the fact. Seeing how F&F was completed in 2010, I don’t see how 2011 communications would bear on who knew about what when the operation was actually going on. Anybody and everybody knows about it after the fact now.

Paul

June 27th, 2012
7:24 pm

Disgusted

Thanks for that info. That is exactly the kind of reasoning I can see a couple of justices using.

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
7:25 pm

They BOTH

I had my opinion on F&F rocked good today based on the Fortune/CNN piece. Their story has been the most detailed write-up I’ve read to date, and they even included some of the documents. That tends to give them a bit more credibility as opposed to merely producing spin.

I guess that goes with looking for information as opposed to simply agreeing with what others think.

Paul

June 27th, 2012
7:26 pm

Towncrier

Now you’re just being silly.

But good on you for being able to separate a brief recap of Roberts’s goals from a description of what realization of what those goals would mean.

Perhaps you’d like to wait an hour before pouring another?

stands for decibels

June 27th, 2012
7:27 pm

Actually, Steve, since the average German uses about half the electricity of an American — in part because of efficiency, in part because of climate differences (less need for AC), it would be close to a wash if your grandfather had stayed put.

oooh… don’t anyone tell Steve what he’d be paying for internet access if Gramps had stayed. That’s we Americans really are fcrewn.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
7:27 pm

Sinkwich

Since your stated he “hates the USA”, can you prove it without being a petty partisan piss ant?

stands for decibels

June 27th, 2012
7:28 pm

…that’s WHERE we Americans…

(just a

/drive-by)

JohnnyReb

June 27th, 2012
7:30 pm

WSB radio had a special on TSPLOST this afternoon. I confess I stumbled on it trying to tune in Hannity. It’s obvious the politicians pro for the project and some businesses want the thing to pass. They mentioned the Belt Line, or is it belt way? Regardless, its my understanding the belt is more a real estate development project than transportation. It’s fishy as is businesses openly encouraging their employees to vote yes. There’s a law suit there.

On another note, a new FOX News poll shows Obama has pulled ahead of Romney in the last month but still within the margin of error. Obama has pulled ahead in swing states. The Romney camp says this month’s polls will be as good as Barry gets. We’ll see.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
7:31 pm

Bro

Same here. This morning I read an article on the NRA’s backroom strong arming. When I came on to the blog, I read the article you posted.

Of course I do not have all the facts, but those claiming there is something “fishy” is going on are somewhat correct. Problem is that they don’t realize where much of the stench is being originated

josef

June 27th, 2012
7:33 pm

BOTH

Haven’t you noticed? Sinkwich’s comments are put together by taking a pat phrase from column A, one from column B, etc. Sorta like that Shakespeare insult site wiccan linked to,… :-)

Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people

June 27th, 2012
7:33 pm

Bro

So what’s your take on f and f?

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
7:33 pm

Sink

FYI: Not sure if you will respond, but someone doesn’t “hate the USA” just because another individual doesn’t agree with their politics and policies.

Not sure if you have the ability to discern that idea, however if you turn on your brain, I am confident that in time you will be able to do so

Paul

June 27th, 2012
7:34 pm

“the average German uses about half the electricity of an American — in part because of efficiency, ”

Ever watch those shows or movies that take place in Europe and notice how, when they’re in their homes and go from one room to another they’ll shut a door? Because many homes have rooms individually heated. They don’t spend most of their time in three rooms and heat the entire house.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
7:35 pm

josef

Sometimes they are funny, but other times they are sad and strange. There are some on the left as well, but like I mentioned yesterday, some of these people really believe what the crap that they post. That is the scary part

JohnnyReb

June 27th, 2012
7:37 pm

Hello josef and They BOTH suck; hope you are doing well.

josef, I see you have been showing off with the German.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
7:39 pm

josef

I was no Bush fan. Have no qualms saying it. With that said I never said he hated the US, was unAmerican, etc, etc. Never even thought it.

Some of his policies and foolishness imo didn’t set well with me, but I never thought his ideology was one of hatred toward the US.

It amazes me when people say that. Yes, even when some of the kooks (Thusla’s fav word) on the left said the stupid $hit that they said about Bush.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
7:40 pm

JR

Hope you day as gone well. Make sure you have some cold water and colder beer as the week goes on. Going to be a HOT weekend

Erwin's cat

June 27th, 2012
7:42 pm

Let’s just ignore that Obama has cut NASA budget shall we?

NASA is fine…a grassroots movement
http://www.nasaproracing.com/

josef

June 27th, 2012
7:48 pm

IMAM

Just a suggestion for tomorrow. Give us two topics, the one where those who want to can blather on about the decision and another dedicated to those of us who really don’t give a hoot. :-)

godless heathen

June 27th, 2012
7:48 pm

Of course I do not have all the facts, but those claiming there is something “fishy” is going on are somewhat correct. Problem is that they don’t realize where much of the stench is being originated

Glad to see that the DNC has finally arrived at a strategy to counter the F and F hoopla and has gotten the message out to the subjects. “IT”S THE NRA! IT’S THE NRA! IT’S THE NRA!

godless heathen

June 27th, 2012
7:51 pm

Just a suggestion for tomorrow. Give us two topics, the one where those who want to can blather on about the decision and another dedicated to those of us who really don’t give a hoot.

josef, Have you seen the weather forecast? Jay’s working on a global warming topic. That horse still breathing.

josef

June 27th, 2012
7:52 pm

BOTH

Much the same as you on Bush…

JOHNNYREB

Doing fine, thankee, and you? …been having some fun with the German…Ol’ Matti a good one to play with on that…

Erwin's cat

June 27th, 2012
7:53 pm

Paul – I have been accused of driving like an American on the Autobahn because, i didn’t short shift my way to 6th

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
7:53 pm

godless

If that make you feel good and helps your self esteem, post it again. But fact is why are they getting involved at all?

:-)

josef

June 27th, 2012
7:54 pm

HEATHEN
:-) And yes, I’ve seen that forecast…Unmentionable is threatening to bring his plants in!

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
7:55 pm

godless

Was it the DNC that made the NRA write a letter to Issa discussing tactics about this case?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Might want to do some homework my friend

All the stench isn’t coming from the left. It is election time and Issa is working for a political victory as November draws near

godless heathen

June 27th, 2012
7:58 pm

IT”S THE NRA! IT’S THE NRA! IT’S THE NRA!

godless heathen

June 27th, 2012
7:59 pm

Nope, didn’t help my self esteem at all.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
8:00 pm

godless heathen

June 27th, 2012
8:01 pm

The NRA wrote a letter to a Congressman!?!?!?!!?!???!!! Oh no, say it ain’t so!!!!!!!!

Paul

June 27th, 2012
8:01 pm

Erwin’s cat

LOL!

Americans with the attitude “I’ll drive whatever damn speed I want and if you don’t like it you can go around” have found themselves bumped from the rear by a large Beemer or Mercedes -

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
8:04 pm

They found the boy’s body at Lake Lanier. Hopefully this will be the start of giving the family some closure after the tragedy they went through.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
8:05 pm

http://nraila.org/media/7733622/cc-letter-to-issa.pdf

Apparently the NRA is making it about the NRA…………

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
8:08 pm

Prove me wrong, lib ilks. Demonstrate some actions, not words.

Let’s see. Prove Sinkwich’s words wrong using actions. Okay. PFFFFFFFTTTTTT!

There. That should do it.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
8:09 pm

godless

Both Ds and Rs love these type of “investigations”……..

Repubs will get some political mileage, but if you are holding your breath for a “bombshell”……… you might be in trouble.

I’d turn on some All Bros, grab a cold one and wait for the bunch of nothing that comes from this case.

If I need to eat crow and Holder and Obama are led off in hand cuffs, please remind me what I stated today

;-)

Billybob

June 27th, 2012
8:09 pm

Enter your comments here

Paul

June 27th, 2012
8:09 pm

TaxPayer

And on that great response…

Pleasant evening, all -

Paul

June 27th, 2012
8:10 pm

Billybob

There!!

Up there!!!

Oops…. too late… ya’ missed your chance.

;-)

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
8:11 pm

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
8:11 pm

They BOTH

Of course I do not have all the facts, but those claiming there is something “fishy” is going on are somewhat correct. Problem is that they don’t realize where much of the stench is being originated

I’m not really sure if many people know where the majority of the stench is being manufactured. As the old people used to say, things always come out in the wash.

——————

jm

My original view was that the ATF had effed up to epic proportions. I was of the impression that they were running a full scale operation that spiraled out of control. That was based on what I had read compounded with my personal insight to the inner workings of government agencies.

After getting a viewpoint based on actual documents related to the case instead of the less informed opinions, my view has changed somewhat. Now, I’m beginning to think that the ATF had stumbled onto something big and like any enforcement agency, they wanted to go after it big time. Their efforts at doing what they were supposed to do were hamstrung by prosecutors who either lacked the will to do their job or didn’t have the necessary evidence to prosecute based on loose laws.

The “walking” that’s been alleged may have instead been information gathering after the sales to bolster their case to effect arrests and prosecutions. Until something criminal could be tied directly to their intel, the prosecutors didn’t want to pursue any cases. The unfortunate criminal deed was the shooting of Agent Terry, since his death was directly connected to weapons they had recorded after their legal sales.

Until today, I didn’t know that Arizona guns had been intercepted in Texas by ATF agents. Also, I was unaware of the extent of the NRA’s strongarmed effort in pushing this until talking to They BOTH today. In light of those new angles, I am somewhat amending my view in that, it wasn’t the ATF that screwed the pooch, but it was a combination of lax laws and the prosecutors that led to this debacle.

Even with newfound “evidence”, there is still no explanation as to why Holder’s being singled out for this. Also, there’s still no explanation why communication after F&F ended and the investigation started is being so adamently chased by Issa. If the intent of this whole investigation is to stymie gun control laws, then Issa is an epic failure. He’s actually pointing out how our lax laws are allowing cartels to legally arm themselves here which is putting American lives at stake.

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
8:18 pm

“It was nearly impossible in Arizona to bring a case against a straw purchaser. The federal prosecutors there did not consider the purchase of a huge volume of guns, or their handoff to a third party, sufficient evidence to seize them. A buyer who certified that the guns were for himself, then handed them off minutes later, hadn’t necessarily lied and was free to change his mind. Even if a suspect bought 10 guns that were recovered days later at a Mexican crime scene, this didn’t mean the initial purchase had been illegal. To these prosecutors, the pattern proved little. Instead, agents needed to link specific evidence of intent to commit a crime to each gun they wanted to seize.”

Why, on Earth, the ATF and the Justice Dept. would even get mixed up in this is beyond imagination.

Hey! We’re here to sell guns. We don’t really care who buys them. If you get in our way, we’ll destroy you! Any questions?

Towncrier

June 27th, 2012
8:18 pm

“Perhaps you’d like to wait an hour before pouring another?”

And you suggest I am being silly. I frankly don’t think a single decision by any SC justice secures his or her “legacy”. I like Roberts it seemed you are basically opining that he will secure such if he votes the way you want him to on the case (since I don’t recall you ever saying that about Roberts before). Am I wrong? Or have you elsewhere said the same thing prior to other cases being decided? If so, my apologies.

Billybob

June 27th, 2012
8:18 pm

good luck jam,
i choose to vote for someone who respects the constitution and you can vote for someone who thumbs his nose at the constitution, the legislative and judicial branches and who is practicing central gov’t planning right in front of our eyes, which is communist and who is a socialist to boot……and let the chips fall where they may…..oh yeah and let’s not forget that fundamentally change the us comment that no one in the democratic party will define or admit is happening right in front of our faces……with your vision, good luck figuring out how to work the system instead of living in a country where the system works for you…..leftist 101 class dismissed playa

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 27th, 2012
8:18 pm

Brosephus, after reading the Fortune piece, I have to say that this Fast & Fiction is “birther” crazy to a new level

Recon 0311 2533

June 27th, 2012
8:20 pm

I think T. Boone Pickins makes the most sense for America. Lets first take the energy that’s abundantly available and make it work for us. That’s natural gas and after we’ve exploited the economic returns of this natural resource we can explore the development of renewable energy such as solar power, wind power etc. We need objective plans not subjective ones that this administration has foolishly pursued with tax dollars they’ve lost.

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
8:22 pm

Bro,

Don’t tell anyone but Issa is a Dem plant.

Billybob

June 27th, 2012
8:23 pm

tbs,
after obama’s reign is over is when democrats across the US will see for themselves how radical he is……his words after office will not involve emotions and liberal democrats will finally see and actually HEAR what the man is saying and what and how he tried to fundamentally change the US…..can you define what that means?

barking frog

June 27th, 2012
8:24 pm

Matti
Wurst- und dichter sich
nicht gegenseitig
ausschließen .

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
8:26 pm

BOTH, I was just up there a few days ago. Took my mom and big bro to see the big lake.

What a shame.

I’m glad that they caught that coward.

And hope they crack down with a vengeance on the drunken idiots out there.

109 degrees yesterday in North Platte. Thank gawd for global cooling…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea0759BeJ2U

Paul

June 27th, 2012
8:26 pm

ahhh, Towncrier, even tho I’d signed off (I’m still working on the other screen but will of course take time for this)

Oftentimes this time of night some posts get kind of silly. As I noted, you did distinguish between what Chief Justice Roberts has stated on his views on the Court and where he hopes he can take it, and what the effect of his moving towards his goal willl be.

I think an opinion on a decision of this magnitude could well set CJ Roberts on the road to a legacy of “not just another ideological justice, but a Chief who moved himself and the Court away from that perception.”

What I want is irrelevant (altho I do think the Court should uphold, keeping in mind Justice Roberts’s repeated testimony of respect for prior principles and decisions) because this Court has not had a case of this magnitude and it is not unreasonable to think they will not have such again.

TaxPayer

June 27th, 2012
8:30 pm

James Inhofe was spotted walking around in 100+ degree heat wearing a heavy winter coat. The denier is strong in that one.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
8:30 pm

Billybob

Not for me to define and explain everything a candidate says or does….

No different than you would answer or care to answer all of Romney’s flip flops on his way to the Republican nomination.

I’ve stated that Obama has been less then stellar, but I am not to keen on a Repub Congress and WH

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
8:30 pm

“None of the ATF agents doubted that the Fast and Furious guns were being purchased to commit crimes in Mexico. But that was nearly impossible to prove to prosecutors’ satisfaction. And agents could not seize guns or arrest suspects after being directed not to do so by a prosecutor. (Agents can be sued if they seize a weapon against prosecutors’ advice. In this case, the agents had a particularly strong obligation to follow the prosecutors’ direction given that Fast and Furious had received a special designation under the Justice Department’s Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force. That designation meant more resources for the case, but it also provided that prosecutors take the lead role.)

Jackie

June 27th, 2012
8:31 pm

One has to believe that our Supreme Court has to know stare decisis relates to our jurisprudence.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stare%20decisis

josef

June 27th, 2012
8:32 pm

Sometimes I think Issa takes his surname a bit too seriously. Just a thought, I’ve not seen any opinions on this, but is he jockeying for VP? I bet THAT would go over well with the Muslim Brotherhood! :-)

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
8:32 pm

i choose to vote for someone who respects the constitution.

Like the two times that you voted for Georgie and Dickie? Who wiped their asses with it for eight straight years. Yeah, riiight. Sell that crap to someone who just fell off of the turnip truck.

and you can vote for someone who thumbs his nose at the constitution……

You mean vote against him again, like I did last time? As I’ve noted on this forum dozens of times. You really are completely clueless about things you speak of, huh? And I predict you will say the exact same thing within three weeks.

Communist? LOL at you.

Are you deranged McCarthyites EVER gonna die off?

It would seem not…

Recon 0311 2533

June 27th, 2012
8:33 pm

It’s indeed amazing how people can make up ideological motivated excuses for what’s clearly a cover up by the Attorney General for the Fast and Furious gun walking scheme. Now we have the president evoking executive priviledge that casts even a greater cloud of suspicion over this White House. A political witch hunt? Yeah right,

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
8:33 pm

Keep

I don’t equate it with the “Birther” frenzy, because as TBS said earlier, there’s a bit of shenanigans involved. There’s no reason for the NRA to be so keenly involved in this, yet they’re putting their lobbying force behind this as though there were some kind of Brady Bill vote going on. In my view, the whole birther thing was pure nonsense. This, however, has the markings of a well orchestrated plan being put into play.

—————

Tax

:lol: :lol: :lol:

He sure has the makings of one. Seems like he’s running on pure emotion as opposed to using logic. That’s just my view though.

josef

June 27th, 2012
8:36 pm

FROG

Aber…du bist ein dichter Dichter! :-)

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
8:36 pm

Recon

How can recording legal gun purchases be considered gun walking? Do you not have faith and confidence in your fellow Marines. The lead Agent in that office was a well-respected Marine who, on differing accounts did his job well. However, I completely understand that ideological divides cloud judgements and adds biases to things.

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
8:36 pm

“It’s indeed amazing how people can make up ideological motivated excuses for what’s clearly a cover up by the Attorney General for the Fast and Furious gun walking scheme.”

Del, I suggest you read “The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal”. Of course, it’s by that “liberal” rag Fortune Magazine. So you needn’t believe a word of it.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

June 27th, 2012
8:37 pm

JamVet:

“had Washington, et al lost ……. they would have all been hanged as traitors.

By foreigners. Not by Americans.”

Disagree ……………… Washington, et al ……….. as British subjects and citizens would have been hung by the British government. There would have been “no” Americans only British colonials.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
8:37 pm

“clearly a cover up by the Attorney General for the Fast and Furious gun walking scheme. ”

Recon has more inside info than Iss…….. Do tell.

“WASHINGTON — Congress doesn’t have any evidence so far of a White House cover-up involving a botched gun-tracking operation, a top Republican said Sunday, countering the House speaker’s assertion that President Barack Obama or his aides deliberately misled lawmakers.

“No we don’t,” said Rep. Darrell Issa, R.-Calif., in response to a question on “Fox News Sunday” about whether lawmakers had proof now to back Speaker John Boehner’s claim about White House officials’ involvement………..”

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

June 27th, 2012
8:39 pm

Paul, thank you for posting a reasoned & reasonable take on the Roberts court & the man himself. He has scared me to death since his appointment; it would be nice to be wrong about him.

Billybob

June 27th, 2012
8:40 pm

tbs,
with all due respect, no politian has ever come into the presidency and made a statement that he will fundamentally change the united states….the fact that democrats completely ignore this one comment is frightening since we see on a weekly basis that this man just decides he will uphold that law and not that one and ignore the separation of powers and publicly ridicule the other branches if they don’t agree with him…..this guy’s history of never working in the private sector, always on the gov’t dole and being a community organizer qualifies him on what level to dictate anything…..he knows how to deliver my healthcare and he will decide based on cost analysis whether or not i get the life saving procedure based on what my life is worth……you do realize the moment a human life is giving a monetary value that we are on a downward spiral to destruction……

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
8:41 pm

My bet is that this entire “Fast & Furious” BS comes unglued tomorrow.

A pack of lies can only survive for so long before someone shines the light on them.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
8:42 pm

Recon

Based on your logic and reasoning that a “cover up” is taking place in regards to F&F, is it safe to say you raised hell when the Bush Administration coincidentally, but “accidentally” deleted (even from the mainframe, damn I say) millions of emails regarding several investigations? We wont even mention the use of personal email that was used for official government business. Which you know to be a NO NO.

Using your logic and reason, now……..

Paul

June 27th, 2012
8:42 pm

G. Mare 71

I had hopes for him going in but have since been disappointed. Nothing would make me more pleased than to be wrong about him. It’s a wonderful chance for redemption – for the three of us.

Lisa Kelly just got done singing “Let It Be” on pandora.com. That’s a nice song to end on.

G’night.

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
8:44 pm

They BOTH

Issa said no such bollocks!!!! :)

Recon 0311 2533

June 27th, 2012
8:44 pm

Libs want to make the NRA a focus instead of an administration that must be covering up something. Maybe, the NRA is right that this was a Holder DoJ attempt to flood the Mexican border and drug cartels with U.S. purchased guns so that they could build a case for restrictive gun control.

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
8:44 pm

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
8:45 pm

Billybob

Thanks for the reply. I voted for Hillary last time, however I will be voting for Obama in November. While I voted mostly Dem, I never vote a straight ticket. Last Repub for President I voted for was Bush Sr. Did so twice?

I know that was a sidebar, but I guess I can conclude you will be voting for Romney. No problem with me

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
8:46 pm

getalife

June 27th, 2012
8:47 pm

American politics should be a reality show so Americans will pay attention.

It would be a funny reality show full of colorful characters.

At the end of the show, you can vote them out.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

June 27th, 2012
8:47 pm

I am betting no one ………. repeat no one ………. can watch all of this short video with a dry eye:

http://www.wimp.com/missinghusband/

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
8:48 pm

Sooth

Rasmussen was on Fox 20 minutes ago. Said that Romney MUST win OH, FL and VA.

Recon 0311 2533

June 27th, 2012
8:48 pm

Sooth, I’m not going to believe their word, your word or anyone’s word until we have the facts which we don’t have including from you.

Billybob

June 27th, 2012
8:48 pm

jam,
didn’t get that hug huh?….and you don’t know who i voted for…..and everything i said about obama he has actually done and said……and central gov’t planning is communist and is what obama has tried to do…another fact…..that you ignore them is your own issue……so i am clueless and am i ever going to die? you are brilliant, almost on the level of obama……while on teleprompter……..

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
8:49 pm

Recon 0311 2533

June 27th, 2012
8:50 pm

TBS, you guys are dancing. I expected better from you.

Ol' Timer

June 27th, 2012
8:51 pm

Conservatives don’t like doing anything for the first time.

Recon 0311 2533

June 27th, 2012
8:54 pm

Sooth@8:44…okay just for you, its not true. State polls don’t mean doo doo at this point check back in late September.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
8:54 pm

Recon

I have not exonerated or indicted anyone…… If facts show a cover up, I expect action to be taken even if that action is detrimental to the the President’s political future.

But as I stated earlier today, there is too much bs going on behind the scenes for me to just, yep Holder and Obama are guilty and that is that.

Granted there could be bs in terms of politics and Holder is guilty of something. It is coming soon, one way or the other.

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
8:55 pm

“I’m not going to believe their word, your word or anyone’s word until we have the facts which we don’t have including from you.”

Therefore, it follows that you don’t believe Issa’s version of events, then. Am I right? Or are there qualifications on your original blanket statement?

getalife

June 27th, 2012
8:55 pm

willard will lose because he is weak.

16 is right around the corner cons.

Try to be better losers.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
8:57 pm

Recon @ 8:54

Good point. The bloggers and news heads are always out front of the majority of the population. Polls could change change during and after the debates. They could start heading Romney’s way (as polls did after Reagan and Carer debated) or they could solidify the small lead Obama has in some key states…… maybe a mixed bag

josef

June 27th, 2012
8:57 pm

BOTH

As for F and F…I doubt there’s very much to it. If there were, the GOP would be saving it for October…just my take on it…

Billybob

June 27th, 2012
8:59 pm

tbs,
if they turn over the documents the questions will be answered and this will come to a conclusion……that’s the easiest thing to do…..

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
8:59 pm

“State polls don’t mean doo doo at this point check back in late September.”

Au contraire

It means that people are finally waking up to the fact the Republicans don’t really represent the average American. It means that the American public is tired of taking it up the *ss for the benefit of giant corporations.

At long last, Americans are finally waking up.

Recon 0311 2533

June 27th, 2012
9:01 pm

“Therefore, it follows that you don’t believe Issa’s version of events, then. Am I right? Or are there qualifications on your original blanket statement?”

I’ve said if you’ve followed my posts that Holder and his boss have managed to place a big cloud of suspicion over the White House and the DoJ. Are you saying that the people should not be suspicious?

stands for decibels

June 27th, 2012
9:03 pm

erm…Nate Silver has Obama up, but only by 20 EVs. Those outlier polls you’re quoting for individual states need to be weighted against less favorable ones.

if you go to his blog

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

you see Obama up by a little over 2% in OH, with a 62% chance of winning. Decent, but hardly a slam-dunk.

Recon 0311 2533

June 27th, 2012
9:04 pm

“At long last, Americans are finally waking up.”

At long last? hell just last week I think you were posting how stupid Americans were.

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
9:06 pm

Maybe, the NRA is right that this was a Holder DoJ attempt to flood the Mexican border and drug cartels with U.S. purchased guns so that they could build a case for restrictive gun control.

Yep, Holder and the DOJ conspired to get Arizona to pass lax gun laws that made bulk purchases easy to happen. It had nothing to do with NRA lobbying on behalf of as many people being able to exersize their 2nd Amendment rights as much or as often as they could afford to, even if they’re doing it on behalf of others. They probably hatched that plan back in 1987 after they got assurances that Obama would be elected in 2008 which would pave the way for Holder to assume office.

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
9:06 pm

and you don’t know who i voted for…

Go ahead and lie to my face (the virtual kind). And tell me that you didn’t for George. Twice.

You could haven’t NOT voted for him in ten lifetimes. You are that transparent. And addicted to this gawdawful fake conservative version of the Republican Party.

Who do you think you’re kidding, billy?

josef

June 27th, 2012
9:07 pm

“TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
8:22 pm

Bro,

Don’t tell anyone but Issa is a Dem plant.”

**********

And I’ve got proof… :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7SkrYF8lCU

stands for decibels

June 27th, 2012
9:08 pm

As for F and F…I doubt there’s very much to it.

It’s been (as I’ve asserted earlier) a win for the right wing, since we’re still talking about document releases and what-does-a-GOP-contempt-finding-mean instead of the embarrassing lack of control we Yanks exercise over gun sales.

I guess the conversation might turn, eventually, to what it should’ve been about all along, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
9:08 pm

ragnar danneskjold

June 27th, 2012
9:08 pm

Germans are used to dictators telling them how to live their lives; this is still new and alien to us in the USA.

Towncrier

June 27th, 2012
9:08 pm

“Based on your logic and reasoning that a “cover up” is taking place in regards to F&F, is it safe to say you raised hell when the Bush Administration coincidentally, but “accidentally” deleted (even from the mainframe, damn I say) millions of emails regarding several investigations?”

He probably did not, but I would wager Jay and many here did. That is the main problem with “politics” – it is like religion (or make sports) in that people have deeply held views in which they are emotionally invested. They often will then make the “facts” fit their view, rather than the other way around. I’m guilty of this, as is everyone here. Maybe the best way to “investigate” possible criminal activity is to let independent agents do it.

stands for decibels

June 27th, 2012
9:09 pm

Yep, Holder and the DOJ conspired to get Arizona to pass lax gun laws that made bulk purchases easy to happen.

because the Obama administration are such total radical badasses, and pull this kinda stuff all the time.

yep.

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
9:11 pm

“Germans are used to dictators telling them how to live their lives; this is still new and alien to us in the USA.”

Sometimes it’s better to remain silent and be thought an idiot, than to speak and remove all doubt!

stands for decibels

June 27th, 2012
9:11 pm

Anyway, about the SCROTUS tomorrow? I’m in a pissy mood right now, so I figure not only will they go 5-4 and throw out the whole PPACA, they’ll do it in a super-broad scorched-earth way that opens the door to successful challenges to the constitutionality of Medicare and Social Security.

stands for decibels

June 27th, 2012
9:12 pm

anyhoo–I’m done for the night. Later.

Recon 0311 2533

June 27th, 2012
9:12 pm

“Yep, Holder and the DOJ conspired to get Arizona to pass lax gun laws that made bulk purchases easy to happen.”

Operation Fast and Furious was an ATF, DoJ program (federal program) not a state of Arizona program. Need to be in sync with the facts.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

June 27th, 2012
9:15 pm

ragnar danneskjold @ 9:08 pm

“Germans are used to dictators telling them how to live their lives; this is still new and alien to us in the USA.”

You mean like this ?

Headline: “German court rules religious circumcision on boys an assault”

“Circumcising young boys on religious grounds amounts to grievous bodily harm, a German court ruled Tuesday in a landmark decision that the Jewish community said trampled on parents’ religious rights.”

But tearing a young boy apart in the womb is not grievous bodily harm?

God help us.

http://news.yahoo.com/german-court-outlaws-religious-circumcision-172728400.html

P.S.

I guess sometime in the future that Jews in Germany will be reduced to circumcising their boys while they’re still in the womb. Then it should be o.k.

Recon 0311 2533

June 27th, 2012
9:15 pm

Okay, g’nite y’all…things to take care of and then Taps.

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
9:16 pm

Bro @ 9:06

Need to correct you on your 87 date. I think it was March 86 when they decided that they could sell a Muslim from Kenya off as a Christian from Hawaii.

At least that is what the memo I received stated, but mine could have been junk mail and the one you recieved the real deal

;-)

Soothsayer

June 27th, 2012
9:20 pm

I’d to make a brief statement to the blog:

A fellow blogger and I had a misunderstanding recently. Misunderstanding is the operative word because the reason this blogger was upset with me was totally without merit.

Discussions with Jay have borne this fact out.

I don’t know and have no way of knowing whether or not this particular blogger has been banned. My wish and hope is that this is not the case.

I have e-mailed Jay and asked him that if, in fact, this particular blogger been banned, that he would consider lifting this ban. So far, I have not received a reply.

I want to make it clear that I hold no animosity towards any blogger here — regardless of political bent.

However, I want to make it clear that regardless of how the other bloggers here feel about me, I will continue to blog and speak my opinion until such time I am prevented from doing so.

I wish you all a good night.

Towncrier

June 27th, 2012
9:20 pm

“I don’t equate it with the “Birther” frenzy, because as TBS said earlier, there’s a bit of shenanigans involved. There’s no reason for the NRA to be so keenly involved in this, yet they’re putting their lobbying force behind this as though there were some kind of Brady Bill vote going on. In my view, the whole birther thing was pure nonsense. This, however, has the markings of a well orchestrated plan being put into play.”

With all due respect, Brosephus, this sounds a bit conspiratorial. First, it should not surprise you that some people (like me) do not necessarily trust Obama and Holder. Secondly, you must concede that some people likewise find Holder’s testimony before the Congress to be puzzling, at the very least (I mean, at one point, one Representative asked him if he was “winging it” after being asked to distinguish between FaF and previous “operations”). The Obama administration has asserted that no high ranking official knew of FaF, but we know that was not true the day after Terry died though Holder initially claimed he knew about it only weeks before (which he later amended). Maybe this is so. I simply would like further proof of this to ease my mind, is all.

Jm

June 27th, 2012
9:21 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

June 27th, 2012
9:23 pm

I miss Kamchack

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
9:23 pm

josef

:lol: :lol: :lol:

—————-

dB

The only control over gun sales in this country will be tied to the supply of firearms. You’re more likely to get the GOP to vote for Obama in November than see any semblance of sensible gun laws in this country. It’s probably just a coincidence that ATF agents stumbled onto the straw purchases in Arizona in the first place. When people feel a need to have a gun in church, you know we’ve gone off the deep end with our affection for guns.

——————-

Operation Fast and Furious was an ATF, DoJ program (federal program) not a state of Arizona program. Need to be in sync with the facts.

True, and when fed prosecutors couldn’t prosecute based on applicable laws, the ATF agents went to state prosecutors with the same results. Regardless to who’s program it was doesn’t change the fact that under Arizona law, where the guns were purchased, there was not one single “illegal” transaction that would have allowed ATF agents to arrest the buyer and then have that buyer prosecuted.

If you’re looking for failure, there’s enough of it to go around. Holder’s just as much responsible for this as Darrel Issa is himself.

—————-

They BOTH

My bad. You’re right on the March 86, because that was not too long after the Challenger incident. That memo slipped between the cracks because of the focus on NASA that year.

Tundra Dude

June 27th, 2012
9:23 pm

Ausgezeichnet! Sehr gut fur die Deutsche. Warum bleiben wir mit Neanderthal-denken?

Lobby macht!

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
9:24 pm

Reading about Flip’s two step on individual mandate, I have come to the inescapable conclusion that he he is one Grade A slimy politician. He reminds me more and more of Tricky Dick. But without the intellectual capacity…

They BOTH suck

June 27th, 2012
9:24 pm

PPACA

At minimum the mandate gets thrown out imo. If it all is thrown out than of course we are at square one. If only partial, changes will still be coming.
If Romeny is elected of course they will work to defund what is remaining in some fashion or another. If Obama reelected
he will have to work with Repub House meaning he will agree to some changes to current policy, etc

Jm

June 27th, 2012
9:27 pm

Scout 9:23 – You’re a masochist

barking frog

June 27th, 2012
9:29 pm

josef
Einmal ein frosch, ein
dichter, zweimal dreimal
eine dame, kein vergessen
der Wurst!

JamVet

June 27th, 2012
9:29 pm

The Washington Post is standing by a report that Mitt Romney’s firm Bain Capital was active in outsourcing American jobs, Politico reports.

The Romney campaign had sought a retraction of the June 21 story arguing that its claims about Bain are either incomplete or inaccurate and that reporters misinterpreted SEC filings. President Barack Obama’s re-election campaign has seized on the report and quickly turned out ads to capitalize on it.

“We are very confident in our reporting,” Washington Post spokesperson Kris Coratti told Politico following a meeting between executive editor Marcus Brauchli and Romney representatives. Romney officials declined to comment.

“It was an off the record private meeting so I don’t have anything for you on that,” Andrea Saul told Politico.

The Post’s story said Bain was an early investor in firms that outsourced jobs heavily.

“Bain played several roles in helping these outsourcing companies, such as investing venture capital so they could grow and providing management and strategic business advice as they navigated this rapidly developing field,” the Post reported.

The only solver lining is that there had to be a sh*tload of Republican suckups who watched their jobs go overseas…

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
9:29 pm

Towncrier

You still have no justification as to why the NRA is pushing so hard for the contempt vote. Hopefully I haven’t given you or anybody else the impression that I think Holder’s squeaky clean in all this, as that’s not my viewpoint. I’m questioning why ALL the focus is on Holder and not the Arizona prosecutors or ATF agents involved. Why has it not been brought up that the whistleblower is the only one who submitted a proposal for gun walking in that office?

There are so many things wrong with this that I honestly don’t think we’ll ever know what really went on with this. As I said earler, it’s nothing more than political Kabuki Theater at this point. Nothing’s gonna happen to Holder. Nothing’s gonna bring an end to the blatant straw purchasing going in in Arizona. My fellow colleagues on the Southern Border are still going to be fighting against people who are armed with legally purchased US firearms. No memo being turned over will change any of that.

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

June 27th, 2012
9:30 pm

0311, I miss Kam, too. Jay said he isn’t banned so I apologize to you for accusing you.

Jm

June 27th, 2012
9:31 pm

Tbs 9:24

I partially disagree

Romney understands we have to do something about healthcare

He will help move the ball down the field Ina rational manner

Doggone/GA

June 27th, 2012
9:31 pm

“At minimum the mandate gets thrown out imo”

That would not be the minimum that could happen…it’s the maximum

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

June 27th, 2012
9:32 pm

Which doesn’t mean I won’t still scroll past most of your posts. :)

Jm

June 27th, 2012
9:33 pm

“I miss kam too”

This is a madhouse :)

Doggone/GA

June 27th, 2012
9:40 pm

Bro – “You still have no justification as to why the NRA is pushing so hard for the contempt vote”

This isn’t a justification, but it is an explanation: apparently the NRA has let it be known that this vote will be used to rate the electibility of the members of Congress.

barking frog

June 27th, 2012
9:40 pm

0311
Kamchak may be watching
you!
He once was banned by
Cynthia Tucker while he
was being namejacked.

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
9:44 pm

If Obama reelected
he will have to work with Repub House meaning he will agree to some changes to current policy, etc

If that happens, then nothing’s going to happen. Those without and unable to get coverage will still end up being subsidized by those of us who have coverage and pay our bills as we should. I guess the conservative idea of self responsibility doesn’t include legislating that self responsibility. If it’s overturned, I don’t wanna hear anybody complain about having to pay for the healthcare of others.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77870.html

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
9:46 pm

Doggone

I read the letter the NRA sent to Issa and others. What does a contempt vote have to do with upholding 2nd Amendment rights? That IS what the NRA lobbies for, correct? I know you don’t have the answers, but it’s funny that the 2nd Amendment lovers here don’t have any answers either. TBS and I have both asked the same question and gotten nothing but crickets in response.

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

June 27th, 2012
9:48 pm

Jm@9:33, yeah, but ain’t we got fun. :)

Doggone/GA

June 27th, 2012
9:50 pm

“That IS what the NRA lobbies for, correct?”

Well, have you heard any of the convoluted conspiracy theory that’s it’s all a trick to bring down the 2nd amendment?

Tom Middleton

June 27th, 2012
9:52 pm

If we could get energy money out of our politics, Jay, or better yet, get the American people so one-pointed on their energy future that the Republicans wouldn’t dare get in the way, I bet we could.

Somehow, with our sitting right here and now discussing this, it doesn’t seem impossible. I mean, at least we could say we tried before we learned to live in the dark, speaking of mothers of invention (or maybe just more mothers)! :)

Jm

June 27th, 2012
9:57 pm

Energy money in politics isn’t the problem (re natural gas)

Ag money, and homebuilding money is

Welcome to the big leagues

The big boys play rough

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
9:59 pm

Doggone

Can’t say I’ve heard that one. I’ll have to ask Sooth about that one. :lol:

Doggone/GA

June 27th, 2012
10:01 pm

“Can’t say I’ve heard that one. I’ll have to ask Sooth about that one”

Yeah, really! Apparently it goes something like this: the Obama admin allowed guns to be sold illegally to Mexico to cause a revulsion against guns HERE in the US and thus open the way for stricter gun laws and the eventual removal of the 2nd amendment from the Constitution.

Hey, don’t blame ME for the weird logic in that, I’m just the messenger!

And It’s my bedtime. G’night!

Brosephus™

June 27th, 2012
10:04 pm

G’night. I think I’m gonna call it quits after that one. I think that post might cause me to have nightmares tonight.

:lol:

getalife

June 27th, 2012
10:07 pm

Mike cracks me up.

The fake scandal is over but the cons can’t deal with it.

Polls are looking great for our President.

barking frog

June 27th, 2012
10:13 pm

getalife
willard is down. kick him.

getalife

June 27th, 2012
10:16 pm

rush said willard is not ready for prime time.

Trouble in la la land.

I agree with rush.

barking frog

June 27th, 2012
10:19 pm

getalife
that may be a rush to
judgment…

Josef

June 27th, 2012
10:19 pm

Enter your comments here

Josef

June 27th, 2012
10:20 pm

MiltonMan

June 27th, 2012
10:24 pm

“Oh! NO! Not Obama by 4 points in FLORIDA, Florida!. Now, this just cain’t be! I’m feelin’ a little faint.”

Yet another liberal douche bag who not only loves polls but does not have the sense of an ordinary rock to read them.

Obama is up 1.8 in your link moron not 4.

MiltonMan

June 27th, 2012
10:25 pm

“rush said willard is not ready for prime time.

Trouble in la la land.

I agree with rush.”

neither was obama but we elected the moron anyway.

getalife

June 27th, 2012
10:29 pm

“neither was obama but we elected the moron anyway.”

Did he collapse the global economy and lose two occupations?

Jay

June 27th, 2012
10:31 pm

Milton, please cease the personal insults.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

June 27th, 2012
10:31 pm

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST) :

Accepted !! He will probably be back (if he isn’t already) under a new handle.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

June 27th, 2012
10:43 pm

Jay:

I’m betting you have TWO different blogs ready to go tomorrow depending on which way the wind blows …………………….. :o

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

June 27th, 2012
10:46 pm

Uh, what are ag & home building money? Well, I’m old, ya know, so please ’splain.

Jm

June 27th, 2012
10:48 pm

Jay, you do realize, as that article stated, that Germany’s co2 emissions are going UP now, because they have shut down nuclear….

Furthermore, the great irony is that Germany now buys even more power from France, which is mostly run on nukes

And to add insult to injury, as all the sensible people in Germany grasp, the wend typically blows from west to east, meaning the french nukes are a far bigger risk to Germany than the German nukes

German nukes were a risk to…. poland

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

June 27th, 2012
10:50 pm

Sooth:

Did you ever see one of “Oliphants” political cartoons? Used to run in the Washington Post every day.

Jm

June 27th, 2012
10:51 pm

Gmare

Ag=agriculture, the ag industry uses methane to make their fertilizer

Home building uses gobs of methane to make PVC, which is used for the pipes, window frames, etc etc. you’d be shocked how much PVC is in a new home, main ingredient: methane

j$

June 27th, 2012
10:51 pm

Not many links lately.

Just a bunch of Drivin and Cryin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_3CvrKWQe0

Jm

June 27th, 2012
10:52 pm

Scout, I bet jay has 4

Towncrier

June 27th, 2012
10:53 pm

Brosephus

“You still have no justification as to why the NRA is pushing so hard for the contempt vote.”

I don’t believe I have ever tried to justify the actions of the NRA. I very much support the 2nd amendment and amd against most gun control, but I don’t presently own a gun and have never paid the NRA much mind. They seem a tad bit overzealous to me.

“Hopefully I haven’t given you or anybody else the impression that I think Holder’s squeaky clean in all this, as that’s not my viewpoint.”

Thanks for that; I was starting to get that impression.

“I’m questioning why ALL the focus is on Holder and not the Arizona prosecutors or ATF agents involved.”

I suspect because you are at least in part correct: the investigation seems to be at least somewhat driven by politics. I am not so concerned about all of that as you are; I just want to know Holder hasn’t been lying (and I am not yet clear on that).

getalife

June 27th, 2012
10:54 pm

sc decision and gop over reach on holder.

Jm

June 27th, 2012
10:55 pm

I’m guessing jay will drop the headline, with rapidly following commentary, which will presumably going to be adjusted somewhat based on the specifics of the ruling

Unless he plans on just throwing &$#@ against the wall just because

Jm

June 27th, 2012
10:57 pm

Well the zombie was just smoking dope

Bad stuff, don’t do it

So much for legalization

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/tests-find-only-marijuana-1465784.html

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

June 27th, 2012
10:58 pm

Jm:

You may be right and one will be about “Georgia Transportation” in case the SCOTUS dumps the whole thing !

Oscar

June 27th, 2012
11:00 pm

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

June 27th, 2012
10:46 pm
__________

Who and when mentioned money. Looked back a few pages and didn’t see it.

Oscar

June 27th, 2012
11:02 pm

Never mind, I just saw Jm answer it above.

Anybody else watching Dallas. John Ross wants to capture methane and use it for energy instead of oil.

getalife

June 27th, 2012
11:03 pm

jm,

You are always wrong.

Did you ever smoke weed?

Weed does not give you the munchies so bad that you eat face.

Mental problems not weed.

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

June 27th, 2012
11:05 pm

Oscar, Jm mentioned ag & home building $, on page 7 I think. Will have to go back to get time & context.

Jm

June 27th, 2012
11:05 pm

Oscar

June 27th, 2012
11:06 pm

Don’t think he will write anything until he knows what the decision is. No point in wasting time.

Jm

June 27th, 2012
11:07 pm

Get :)

Weed does not give you the munchies so bad that you eat face.

-apparently in certain cases it does. I did not inhale

j$

June 27th, 2012
11:08 pm

Thank allah obama finally agreed to their terms to lower petro in the short term.

Suckers.

Oscar

June 27th, 2012
11:09 pm

G Mare 71

I saw it, and read his explantion. Who not have understood is comment either, And don’t agree with it now that he has explained it.

Jm – a link or something to back up your statement.

Jm

June 27th, 2012
11:09 pm

Scout

When the mandate goes down, I have no doubt jay will point out: republican concept!

Oscar

June 27th, 2012
11:10 pm

I could never inhale either. I’m the only person in the country that believed it. Yes, i have some asthma and chronic bronchitus.

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

June 27th, 2012
11:11 pm

Me thinks tomorrow will be a very interesting day here.

Oscar

June 27th, 2012
11:12 pm

Best thing that could happen would be for the mandate to go down and the rest stay.

bman

June 27th, 2012
11:12 pm

“Don’t think he will write anything until he knows what the decision is. No point in wasting time.”

The “no point in wasting time” part- it made me think of Obama. I admit that I am no fan of Obama. But, I really do wish that when he was pushing the healthcare bill that he would have attempted to pulled the parties together and try to find solutions that, no only the 2 parties would mostly agree on, but also that much of Americans would have agreed with, too. Instead, it looks as if the whole thing may very well end up to have been…a waste of time.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

June 27th, 2012
11:13 pm

Oscar:

Maybe. For sure the mandate needs to go.

Jm

June 27th, 2012
11:14 pm

Oscar, start here on fertilizer

http://www.theenergyfix.com/2011/11/21/boone-pickens-vs-koch-brothers-over-u-s-natural-gas-legislation-while-oil-reaches-100-again/

Though that ink doesn’t have the details on how methane is used in fertilizer, it mentions it

Jm

June 27th, 2012
11:15 pm

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

June 27th, 2012
11:16 pm

Thanks, Oscar. It did seem a bit of a non sequitur. Ah well, maybe he will expound further tomorrow.

Good night, all.

ld

June 27th, 2012
11:16 pm

Georgia has a realtively small coastline compared to many other southern states; however, that coastline has the potential to be more important to Georgia’s citizens than it now is — more important than an import/export harbor; more important than a tourist destination; more important than taxes from the many mansions along and near its shore; more important than any fishing industry. Aside from any use as a navel base to defend our nation in time of war, the potential for the coast to provide energy and fresh water in a world in which you can be frackin sure both will be increasingly more scarce makes the coast a potential goldmine for investors and a potential lifeline for Georgia’s thirsty citizenry whose energy needs will, inevitably, increase.

The owners of the homes and businesses along the shoreline will likely object to anything that changes their view; however the potential for wind and wave energy coupled with the ever-increasing need for energy, along with the likelihood of needing to turn sea water to fresh water in an energy efficient and environmentally sound way to meet the needs of our major cities at some time in the future means there is money to be made by the engineers and enterpreneurs.

Old nuclear energy plants will eventually need to be shut down, if not permanently, then for an update/remodeling — and/or either new ones or alternatives to them designed and built.

Georgia Tech where are you?

Jm

June 27th, 2012
11:17 pm

Oscar

June 27th, 2012
11:17 pm

bman

I hear what you are saying, and understand the frustration. People have been saying that ever since the bill pasted, and before it passed. But I don’t really think it was possible for that to happen, given the attidutes and positions of all the players on the field.

Even if shot dowm completely, don’t think it was a waste of time. At least it provoked a lot of discussion about health care in America.
Don’t think anyone wants to go back to where we were before – with pre-existing conditions not covered and some of the other parts of it that are favored by about 80 per cent of Americanss.

Tom Middleton

June 27th, 2012
11:18 pm

According to news reports, the makers of bath salts keep changing the molecule ever so slightly, so a one-size-fits-all test cannot be designed to test for it. Besides, I’ve heard of marijuana smokers eating lots of things, most of them sexy, but never somebody’s face. That would be a clear sign of insanity. I mean, licking it maybe! :)

Jm

June 27th, 2012
11:18 pm

Gmare 11:11 agreed

Jm

June 27th, 2012
11:21 pm

Id

There’s no real wind on the ga coast dude

Too far in

Wave energy is tough, brutal environment, though people are tinkering with it

BADA BING

June 27th, 2012
11:22 pm

Und now is the time on Bookman ven we dance………

Jm

June 27th, 2012
11:22 pm

Zombie dude had bad munches

Don’t smoke dope

Jm

June 27th, 2012
11:26 pm

“Additionally, those in the younger age group (here, 18-to-24-years-old) were the most in favor of either gas, sales or mileage taxes, while the 55-plus group was the least supportive.”

Old fogies really do blow sometimes

Between entitlements and this, it’s a miracle anything gets done in America

Tom Middleton

June 27th, 2012
11:26 pm

You should have been a hppie for awhile, Jm. You’d be laughing at yourself right now. :)

Jm

June 27th, 2012
11:28 pm

Tom

I was a long hair in college

Jm

June 27th, 2012
11:29 pm

I liked beer

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

June 27th, 2012
11:30 pm

Tom M, eeeeww.

Had to come back for a few minutes to share the song in my head, “Show me the way to go home, I’m tired & I wanna go to bed. Had a little drink about an hour ago, & it went right to my head.”

Tom Middleton

June 27th, 2012
11:30 pm

Sure, Jm, whatever you say.

Oscar

June 27th, 2012
11:30 pm

Jm – Thanks for the links. Most people don’t realize what all oil is used for, and the amount of money. You are right, the big boys play dirty.

j$

June 27th, 2012
11:31 pm

Jm, sleep in off, home boy.

j$

June 27th, 2012
11:33 pm

obama has the middle east by tha balls!

4 more years?

Jm

June 27th, 2012
11:38 pm

Out

Nut balls have arrived

Tom Middleton

June 27th, 2012
11:43 pm

Tom Middleton

June 27th, 2012
11:48 pm

Jm
Be sure to give him a big tip, Jm.

getalife

June 28th, 2012
12:02 am

Of course, four more years!

We will not go back to gop failures.

Tom Middleton

June 28th, 2012
12:07 am

Yup, then Hillary!

Z

June 28th, 2012
12:07 am

When you have a congress full of Republican extremist’s, who only care about taking rights away from women, keeping guns in as many hands as possible, turning this country into a Theocracy and keeping every zygote alive, I wouldn’t hold my breathe with this country’s Republican controlled congress even thinking about alternative solutions to our energy needs.

Germany has been working on being green before being Green was popular, most likely the last 40 years at least.

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

June 28th, 2012
12:21 am

Oh the memories that evokes, TM. Thank you!

Yeah, I’m really going to bed now, with a smile for those memories.

Tom Middleton

June 28th, 2012
12:26 am

G Mare

One Christmas, my parents gave me a portable phono and two Kingston Trio albums – “Make Way” and “At Large.” Later came Dylan, and it’s been music ever since. :)

j$

June 28th, 2012
1:09 am

Bruno

June 28th, 2012
3:04 am

Even if shot down completely, don’t think it was a waste of time. At least it provoked a lot of discussion about health care in America. Don’t think anyone wants to go back to where we were before – with pre-existing conditions not covered and some of the other parts of it that are favored by about 80 per cent of Americans

Oscar, et al–Personally, I think the health care debate WAS a total waste of time because at no point did anyone address the root causes of the problems in our health care system: (1) Too many unhealthy people (2) An over-reliance on drug and surgery-based solutions (3) Out-of-control pricing.

The entire thrust of the ACA was a meaningless attempt to further spread costs around. Predictably, people fell for the specious “free rider” argument pushed by Jay and several of the Libs here, foolishly believing that a mandate to purchase insurance is going to lower costs. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence realizes that the ACA will increase overall costs in many ways, increased overhead for doctors only being one of them.

Until Americans start taking more responsibility for their own health, their own lives, their own destiny, no amount of band-aids are going to stop the bleeding.

Bruno

June 28th, 2012
3:06 am

Bruno

June 28th, 2012
3:09 am

Catch you guys tomorrow for the victory celebration when the insurance mandate is struck down as being unconstitutional, as a total misapplication of the Interstate Commerce Clause. What makes the US great is freedom. I can only pray that some of the Lbs here wake up to that fact one of these days….

Jack

June 28th, 2012
5:49 am

Been losing a lot of sleep worrying about Germany’s electrical needs.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

June 28th, 2012
6:30 am

“when the insurance mandate is struck down as being unconstitutional”

one can only hope it ushers in a single-payer system.

I’ll unleash a mighty HUZZAH!

Joel Edge

June 28th, 2012
6:46 am

” that capability seems to have atrophied on this side of the Atlantic.”
Along with a lot of other traits that we had at one time. If anybody can pull it off, it’s the Germans. They still have a work ethic, a united society and a tradition of technical expertise. But that’s OK, we have diversity.

nelson howard

June 28th, 2012
6:59 am

Wind power[solar energy] is the future. As we speak there are 400 millimeters of CO2 in the atmosphere. When the number reaches 450 millimeters, that is the “tipping point” where the atmosphere continues to warm.
There is one miniscule port on the St. Lawrence river [Ogdensburg, N.Y.] that has recently been transformed into a bustling transport destination for wind turbines. There are now hundreds of workers there and heavy equiptment off loading turbines from the ships coming in. Businesses like motels, restaurants, everything that people need is being consumed. What the gold rush was to the 1800s, wind turbines are to this area.
In sharp contrast, a small community at the other end of the river [Cape Vincent] has refused to enter into the wind turbine construction. They see preserving the area exclusively for the tourists and summer residents, at what many consider to be, the expense of all others. British Petroleum[BP] has put $300,000,000 on the table for the construction of turbines, which for the small school district would add $6,000,000 dollars [PILOT] at a time when they have a $1,000,000 short fall.
It is the ultimate in arrogance, with the fragile enviroment so close to the tipping point. I might add, that the port at Savannah could be part of the new frontier.

Jm

June 28th, 2012
7:19 am

Someone is going to spike the ball today

Not me tho

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
7:26 am

Someone is going to spike the ball today

Not me tho

Thanks Jm.

I’m already on record as saying if it goes “my way,” I’ll soberly assess the massive policy work still ahead, and react accordingly.

.

.

.

(No promises on the dark, post-apocalyptic utterances that might spontaneously combust, though, if it doesn’t go “my way.” I might see some silver linings — hi, USinUK! — or I might just decide once and for all that we mere citizens are doomed to be ruled by horrible men who, at best, merely border on psychopathy.)

Joseph

June 28th, 2012
7:29 am

I’m looking for some tripe today about how the demoncrat party is the big tent party…

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
7:31 am

Ok. The demoncrat party is the big tent party.

You can leave now.

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
7:33 am

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

June 28th, 2012
7:35 am

Joseph

You are always welcome to come into our big tent.

You could be our own prodigal son.

TaxPayer

June 28th, 2012
7:40 am

Single-Payer!
.
Single-Payer!
.
Single-Payer!
.
Expand the coverage for Medicare to all persons that are mandated to pay the payroll tax.

Jm

June 28th, 2012
7:48 am

Taxpayer

Not gunnna happen

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
7:49 am

I’d like to address one particularly thoughtless comment from the typically thoughtless (and sometimes shockingly naive) Rags, above, as it relates to Jay’s Energiewende topic:

Germans are used to dictators telling them how to live their lives; this is still new and alien to us in the USA.

I don’t claim to have a unique insight to the German psyche, but I can claim close relations with several German nationals over the years, along with a few weeks spent in the country itself over the years, both as a business professional and as a vacationer. It’s an admittedly small sample size.

That said, my impression of the post-WWII generations is that they are not only very much aware of their forebears’ collective crimes (that’s a typical word you hear used) against humanity, but are devoutly committed to never repeating not only the crimes themselves, but the conditions that led to such horror. They’ve been incredibly cautious about deploying any kind of military presence beyond their borders, for example. If you bother to read the story Jay’s linked, you’ll see that same zeitgeist. These are people who are not just acting collectively in a responsible fashion, but individually as well.

As Keep Up stated, I don’t necessarily agree with some aspects of the program. But the objectives are laudable, and the means seem pragmatic.

JamVet

June 28th, 2012
7:51 am

I’m looking for some tripe today about how the demoncrat party is the big tent party…

Or you could spam us with how the Lily White Party is!

If you listen real carefully during the August 27 – 30 Circus in Tampa, in the background you will hear, playing very softly, “Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!”

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
7:52 am

Not gunnna happen

not this year (although there was a very briefly discussed proposal back in 2009 to lower the eligibility age to 55 — it would involve individuals buying in to the single-payer system, it wouldn’t have been free), nor the next, true.

But if we are going to do single payer, that would be the most efficient means to accomplish it.

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
7:55 am

You are always welcome to come into our big tent.

Yep. That donkey dung ain’t gonna scoop itself.

stands for decibels

June 28th, 2012
7:56 am

oh well, PPACA sheetz. sigh.

Brosephus™

June 28th, 2012
7:56 am

Someone is going to spike the ball today

Well, Bruno’s already on record. Although I would expect better from him. I also see our little ant hill kicker is here doing what he does best…

TaxPayer

June 28th, 2012
8:00 am

Medicare and Medicaid should be expanded to cover our entire population.

How many of you out there in electronland would give up your current health insurance through your work or Medicare, etc., in exchange for a few hundred dollars extra per month in your pocket and the “freedom” to haggle in an unregulated market place for your healthcare needs?

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

June 28th, 2012
8:02 am

Would be a travesty if mandate is found acceptable…nonetheless, regardless of outcome we are no better, and likely worse off from improving healthcare than ever…this bill is crap…the way it came about is crap, and the lobbyists for insurers and healthcare providers will never allow single payer….too many jobs and campaign dollars will evaporate.

Curious

June 28th, 2012
8:06 am

Most conservatives say why change anything because everyone has medical care available now.

As a result, the ACA will only change how it’s paid for. Those folks using the ER for primary healthcare at no cost will now have to pay for it.

Providers won’t have to pass that cost on the those that do pay for their healthcare.

Personal responsibility is good.

Paul

June 28th, 2012
8:07 am

Morning, stands

“I’ll soberly assess the massive policy work still ahead, and react accordingly”

If the mandate is tossed, it ain’t all bad. Look at how far Republicans have come

“The individual mandate is the right, good and constitutional thing to do.”

“Democrats agree? Wait… the mandate is socialism, an affront to freedom and unconstitutional!”

“We’ll throw out Obamacare.”

“We’ll repeal… and replace!”

“We kinda like no caps.”

“Not getting dropped when you get sick is okay.”

“Coverage for preexisting conditions is good.”

“We think we should have high-risk pools.”

In other words, Democrats lifted the individual mandate from Republicans, then Republicans fought it.

Republicans lifted all the other ideas from Democrats, and Democrats will support them.

Progress.

Paul

June 28th, 2012
8:12 am

Curious

“Most conservatives say why change anything because everyone has medical care available now.”

And they are correct, if one considers stabilizing an emergency situation as ‘everyone has medical care available now.”

If you’d care to see the difference, go into any ER, doctor’s office, specialty clinic and say “Hello. I have colon cancer and no insurance and no resources. You, the hospital, radiologists, labs, pharmacies and everyone else will treat me for free, right?

I sure hope we’re not going to go thru this for the “but everyone gets treated now’ crowd.