GOP: Massive campaign donations should be secret
“WASHINGTON — During their long campaign to loosen rules on campaign money, conservatives argued that there was a simpler way to prevent corruption: transparency. Get rid of limits on contributions and spending, they said, but make sure voters know where the money is coming from.
Today, with those fundraising restrictions largely removed, many conservatives have changed their tune. They now say disclosure could be an enemy of free speech.
High-profile donors could face bullying and harassment from liberals out to “muzzle” their opponents, Sen. Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said in a recent speech.
Corporations could be subject to boycotts and pickets, warned the Wall Street Journal editorial page this spring.
Democrats “want to intimidate people into not giving to these conservative efforts,” said Republican strategist Karl Rove on Fox News. “I think it’s shameful.”
The Times’ story goes on to document a wide-ranging effort by conservative groups to undermine, dismantle and evade laws intended to force disclosure of who is giving how much money to who. They are also aggressively abusing a loophole in regulations that allow nonprofit groups to collect hundreds of millions of dollars in anonymous donations — under the guise that they are social-welfare organizations — and use that anonymous money to buy campaign ads.
The Federal Election Commission, which has the legal authority and even obligation to intervene, has been rendered incapable of doing so. In an all-too-familiar pattern, the commission’s three Republican members are blocking its three Democratic members from taking action to force disclosure that the law clearly requires. (See Van Hollen v. FEC).
As a result, it is becoming increasingly difficult for the public and the media to “follow the money,” the traditional means to trace how big money in the political system produces favorable outcomes for those doing the giving.
The excuse for such secrecy is that large donors fear a backlash should their involvement become public. Poor little sensitive dears.
What do they think happens when John Q. Public writes a letter to the editor of the local newspaper, puts a campaign sign in his front yard or a bumper sticker on his car?
Why should they be exempt from disclosing contributions measured in the millions of dollars, while Jane Q. Public’s little $500 contribution to a candidate ends up in a FEC database accessible to her employer, her family and friends and everyone else with an Internet connection?
As one prominent jurist noted back in 2010:
“Requiring people to stand up in public for their political acts fosters civic courage, without which democracy is doomed. For my part, I do not look forward to a society which, thanks to the Supreme Court, campaigns anonymously and even exercises the direct democracy of initiative and referendum hidden from public scrutiny and protected from the accountability of criticism.”
Of course, given that the jurist in question was Justice Antonin Scalia, he may be singing a different tune now, given the partisan turn this issue has taken.
– Jay Bookman
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757 comments Add your comment
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
9:36 am
Two points:
1) Jay talking about “transparency” with his secretive president in the White House is _____________ (fill in the blank).
2) “or a bumper sticker on his car?”
Warning ………. if you put a conservative bumper sticker on your vehicle, don’t be surprised if a lib. “keys” your said vehicle.
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
9:36 am
So Jay only wants certain laws enforced with discretion.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 27th, 2012
9:36 am
Well how can you be secretly bought and paid for if everyone knows who is pulling the puppet strings?
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
9:36 am
They can hide there massive donations but mine are easily google-able.
If those coporations are people, then I am being discriminated against
in favor of those peop-orations.
And that’s fair and right how?
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
9:38 am
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
9:36 am
So Jay only wants certain laws enforced with discretion.
Ty
I bet you do too.
Would you like us to start prosecuting the torture group now?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 27th, 2012
9:39 am
Warning ………. if you put a conservative bumper sticker on your vehicle, don’t be surprised if a lib. “keys” your said vehicle
This from a poster who has a fettish about an employer walking through the employee parking lot and firing everyone with an Obama sticker…….. Sometimes the “warning” says more about the poster than the false claim itself.
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
9:41 am
“I bet you do too.”
you shouldn’t be betting granny…Obama needs all the disposable money he can get from you.
Talking Head
June 27th, 2012
9:42 am
I wonder if this piece is in response to Obama saying that he will be outspent in this election? Hmmmmm
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
9:44 am
“Warning ………. if you put a conservative bumper sticker on your vehicle, don’t be surprised if a lib. “keys” your said vehicle”
Funny thing about that…..I had my car car vandalized several times and my home as well last 2 election cycles.
and not a single conservative bumper sticker…
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
June 27th, 2012
9:44 am
JAY,
I don’t hold SCOTUS to blame for interpreting ancient constitution as such….amendment is needed but of course will not serve the interests of our corrupt (DEMS and GOP) politicians.
Of course all donors to these anti-taxpayer tools should be exposed….our whole government is a joke, completely impotent and controlled by cash….disgusting….not sure what is solutions since any politician who proposes a fix will find well funded competition when up for re-election.
I don’t see the DEMs as being any less guilty, provided the opportunity of GOP in this vein…any suggestions to the contrary are naive.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
9:45 am
ty
do you want us to start proceeding against the torture group or not?
why did you avoid the question?
Soothsayer
June 27th, 2012
9:45 am
Bangalore, Stymied by the Visa Shortage, Hires in the U.S.
With the U.S. unemployment rate higher than 8 percent, and Indian outsourcing already an issue in the presidential election, those visas [H1-B, L1-B] are getting harder to secure. “Rejection rates are way up,” says Scott Staples, president of MindTree’s U.S. operation. “It’s so much harder to get visas approved.”
Indian companies are considering such alternatives as employing more locals. Tata hired 1,600 people in the U.S. last year, up from 1,200 in 2010.
Those poor, ol’ outsourcing companies. We’re just being way too mean to them, huh?
Well, gosh, there’s a novel concept: hiring U.S. workers to work in the U.S. Who’da thunkit?
You owe it to yourself to read this article. It will make your blood boil.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
9:45 am
Join the debate ……………..
“Rep. Steve Israel of New York, the House Democrats’ campaign chief, is telling candidates to avoid the party’s national convention. Israel’s admonition comes as a growing list of Democrats say they will not be joining their fellow partisans in Charlotte, N.C. And Missouri Sen. Claire McCaskill, one of the Democratic Party’s most vulnerable candidates, will not attend, an aide said.
Are Democratic candidates wise to try and distance themselves from President Obama?”
http://www.politico.com/arena/
mm
June 27th, 2012
9:45 am
We have a clear choice to make this November.
You either support the party that only cares about the corporations of this country.
OR
You support the party that cares about the citizens of this country.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
9:46 am
just remember, boys and girls … if George Soros wants to pour millions into the campaigns, it’s bad.
if the Koch brothers want to pour millions into the campaigns, it’s democracy in action.
(or is that democracy inaction?)
Adam
June 27th, 2012
9:46 am
Scout: Transparency is:
Knowing about the “secret” drone strike war
Knowing about the “secret” killing of Osama bin Laden
Knowing about the “secret” kill list
Knowing about the “secret” Fast and Furious plan
Knowing about the “secret” places the stimulus money went
Knowing about the “secret” donations in most other cases of poiticians
Yeah, no transparency there, because we don’t know ANY of that stuff. Cuz it’s a secret, doncha know.
Peadawg
June 27th, 2012
9:46 am
Damn…Obama Obama Obama on the 1st post. Nice.
“GOP: Massive campaign donations should be secret” – Nope, not even a little bit. I don’t have a problem w/ unlimited campaign donations but they shouldn’t be secret.
Paul
June 27th, 2012
9:47 am
For once, I look forward to a Scout Bible quote about those who do their deeds in secret, where there is no light, who seek to cover their sins and who are speakers of the word but not doers of the word.
My understanding is Karl Rove’s Crossroads GPS is established as a non-profit devoted to promoting social welfare and discussion issues. As such, donors can be anonymous. Problem is, Crossroads funds attack ads against specific candidates. I wondered how they got away with it. After reading this column, I know how.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
9:48 am
Sometimes the “warning” says more about the poster than the false claim itself.
THIS
Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people
June 27th, 2012
9:48 am
On topic- if democrats are ready to require that ALL NON PROFIT contributions have to be disclosed, fine by me.
I’m betting a lot if non profits wouldn’t be a fan, especially the abortion clinic folks, to cite but one example
Taxpayer (from downstairs)
Earthworks Action is not any sort of remotely recognized scientific group
Try harder
mm
June 27th, 2012
9:48 am
“Are Democratic candidates wise to try and distance themselves from President Obama?”
No, they are just spineless DINOs.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
9:49 am
Headline (POLITICO): “Dems go AWOL in class war”
“Labor unions hoped to turn the Wisconsin recall election into a rallying cause for their ailing movement. But a Democratic president couldn’t be dragged off the sidelines for the fight.
Anti-Wall Street activists were itching to see JP Morgan CEO Jamie Dimon bashed like a piñata at a congressional hearing just two weeks after his firm blew $2 billion in risky speculation. But Democratic senators greeted him with flowers, not fury.
And, as President Barack Obama attempts to make Mitt Romney’s history as a wealthy buyout artist a centerpiece of his 2012 message, he is second-guessed and hushed by some of the leading voices in his own party.
What the hell ever happened to populism in the Democratic Party?”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77878.html#ixzz1z090cBvl
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
9:49 am
“Are Democratic candidates wise to try and distance themselves from President Obama?””
more like distancing themselves from the racist and homophobic North Carolina.
Why bother
June 27th, 2012
9:50 am
Once again, nice piece Jay, and worthy of discussion. However the peanut gallery has already devolved this into another finger pointing, “what about Obama?” diatribe. Sadly I shall once again just digest the material and move on….
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
9:51 am
Granny,
wouldn’t bother me if you/they did…though you/they have no case.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
9:51 am
“I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.”
Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
June 27th, 2012
9:52 am
What are they hiding from? Shouldn’t be so skeered.
Steve
June 27th, 2012
9:52 am
Can you people stick to the topic? Seriously…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
9:53 am
Adam:
From yesterday ………….
“What the hell kind of logical backflips and cognitive dissonance rattles around in your head to come up with the people who WROTE THE CONSTITUTION “just have an opinion.”
Point #1: Jefferson had nothing to do with drafting the Constitution. He was Ambassador to France at the time. Just sayin’.
Point #2 The founding fathers were wise enough to draft a Constitution that would ignore their “personal” future opinions …………. most of whom felt that slavery was Contitutional.
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
9:53 am
Warning ………. if you put a conservative bumper sticker on your vehicle, don’t be surprised if a lib. “keys” your said vehicle
Scout and his potholes.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
9:53 am
“Yeah, no transparency there, because we don’t know ANY of that stuff. Cuz it’s a secret, doncha know.”
oh, way to go Adam … now EVERYone will know …
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
9:54 am
Tax those contributions and use them to pay down the national debt. Ninety percent tax rate.
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
9:54 am
“more like distancing themselves from the racist and homophobic North Carolina.”
that went for Obama in 2008.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
9:54 am
Excuse me: “Constitutional”
Proud to be me
June 27th, 2012
9:55 am
There’s nothing SECRET anymore!!!
Thomas
June 27th, 2012
9:55 am
Tax cheats were given $1.4 billion in government-backed mortgage loans under President Obama’s economic stimulus, and the government doled out at least an additional $27 million in tax credits to delinquents who took the first-time-homebuyer tax break, according to a government audit released Wednesday.
Under government rules, delinquent taxpayers are supposed to be ineligible for the mortgage insurance program unless they have reached a repayment agreement with the Internal Revenue Service. But the Federal Housing Administration didn’t have the right controls to weed out bad applications, said the Government Accountability Office, Congress‘ chief investigative arm.
We need a third stimulus to ensure taxpayer money is redistributed to folks with no business plan and tax cheats- gotta love the gov’t as it is the only entity that makes Enron look pristine
How can a company be corrupt, pay or not pay taxes- how does a company “do” anything. A company is simply articles of incorporation.
Simply make everything transparent- if monies are flowing from the MidEast or China for a candidate, from a union, from a neocon arms dealers- simply make it transparent so everyone knows.
I thought that is what Obama wanted- transparency
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 27th, 2012
9:56 am
New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman has launched an investigation into the contributions of “tax-exempt groups that are heavily involved in political campaigns, focusing on a case involving the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which has been one of the largest outside groups seeking to influence recent elections but is not required to disclose its donors,” the New York Times reports. Schneiderman is “seeking e-mails, bank records and other documents to determine whether the foundation illegally funneled $18 million to the chamber for political and lobbying activities.” The Chamber spent $66 million on lobbying in 2011 and has “pledged to spend at least $50 million on issue ads during the 2012 election cycle.” Recent reports have revealed that health insurers funneled at least $102.4 million through the Chamber in an effort to defeat Obamacare and undermine its implementation.
Hmmm… secrecy allows laws to be broken.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
9:56 am
“Requiring people to stand up in public for their political acts fosters civic courage, without which democracy is doomed. For my part, I do not look forward to a society which, thanks to the Supreme Court, campaigns anonymously and even exercises the direct democracy of initiative and referendum hidden from public scrutiny and protected from the accountability of criticism.”
Of course, given that the jurist in question was Justice Antonin Scalia, he may be singing a different tune now, given the partisan turn this issue has taken.
So, in true political fashion, he was for it before he was against it. Just shows that in the US, he who has the money gets to make the rules. Sad to see that there are people who actually cheer this crap on.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
June 27th, 2012
9:56 am
To Karl Rove…Please…
http://lolcats.icanhascheezburger.com/2012/06/14/funny-cat-pictures-post-haste/
Welcome to the Occupation
June 27th, 2012
9:56 am
I saw the clip of that Karl Rove performance on FOX yesterday. Absolutely one for the ages.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
9:56 am
As conservatives said about warrantless wiretapping, ‘if you don’t have anything to hide, then you don’t have anything to worry about.’
Same goes for campaign finance contributions. If you’re not trying to hide something, then revealing the source of the donations shouldn’t be a problem for you.
OTOH, if it *is* a problem for you, then perhaps you’re not the person people should be voting for.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
9:57 am
ty
thanks for responding.
as far as no case….well folks WERE tortured.
Thomas Heyward Jr.
June 27th, 2012
9:58 am
When I think of Obama/Romney supporters………..I think of some “shades of gray” sexual technics.
.
Obey your rulers……….keep getting abused………..because you LIKE it.
.
Thank you Sir………may I have another.
.
Romney/Obama supportors.
.
Girly men…….all.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
9:59 am
0311 — “Warning ………. if you put a conservative bumper sticker on your vehicle, don’t be surprised if a lib. “keys” your said vehicle.”
I’ll raise you a Coke bottle, thrown at my car while both my car and the thrower’s car were in motion. I had a Veterans For Kerry bumpersticker.
Oh, yes, and as the chimp got into the adjacent turn lane to make his escape (I was going straight), I was able to see that he had a USMC window sticker. Maybe it was you that did it.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
9:59 am
“that went for Obama in 2008″
maybe so … but how do you go on to effectively endorse a state that has so blatantly voted against one of your basic principles of equality for everyone???
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
9:59 am
Jm,
Feel free to disprove the content with your own analysis. I anxiously await an opportunity to review your expert analysis on the topic. And since you did not notice, they reference experts such as Halliburton and scientists from USGS, etc. I suspect however you will continue with more of the same–your expert opinion.
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
10:00 am
Earthworks Action is not any sort of remotely recognized scientific group
How can you say that? They have a Dentist on their Board of Directors.
DawgDad
June 27th, 2012
10:03 am
“many conservatives have changed their tune”
Who? How many is “many”? One? Two? Of course there are some in the GOP who feel this way. There have been Democratic donors and bundlers who didn’t want to go public, too. I can pretty well assure you the majority base of conservative voters supports transparency. Might try running a poll on that.
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
10:04 am
UsinUk,
I don’t agree with the majority opinion of NC’ians regarding same sex marriage…that being said, it was left up to that state(a process obama has endorsed, despite his “personal” feelings on the issue). As for “racist”…funny that NC wasn’t called that after the 2008 election…hmmmmm
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
10:04 am
Jm — “On topic- if democrats are ready to require that ALL NON PROFIT contributions have to be disclosed, fine by me. I’m betting a lot if non profits wouldn’t be a fan, especially the abortion clinic folks, to cite but one example”
You pretty clearly don’t know what a Form 990 is.
http://www.guidestar.org/rxg/help/faqs/form-990/index.aspx#faq1951
If you want changes to the policy, talk to your elected representatives.
You might also want to try exerting a little effort to find that information, as this took me all of four seconds to find:
http://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/contrib.php?cmte=Planned+Parenthood&type=A&cycle=2012
SwamiDave
June 27th, 2012
10:05 am
USinUK:
“more like distancing themselves from the racist and homophobic North Carolina.”
Sure, at-risk officeholders and candidates in swing states (the majority of which have similar laws that passed with similiar margins in state-wide elections) are distancing themselves from North Carolina.
Thanks for today’s early morning entertainment!
-SD
Erwin's cat
June 27th, 2012
10:05 am
“In an all-too-familiar pattern, the commission’s three Republican members are blocking its three Democratic members from taking action to force disclosure that the law clearly requires. ”
An agreed stalemate, I’m sure ….all too familiar is right
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
10:05 am
usinuk,
oh, and the same goes for CA.
Jefferson
June 27th, 2012
10:06 am
Having your car damaged is a reality.
kayaker 71
June 27th, 2012
10:09 am
Bozo has been on over 175 money raising trips on the taxpayer dime to raise money for his hopeless campaign. If he had the money donated to him and his cronies that the Republicans had raised, Bookman would not be posting this. But the Imaculated One is way behind in campaign donations, even wanting those who are getting married to forgo wedding presents and donate the money to his campaign. He also wants those who have birthdays to donate the money that someone would have spent, to his sorry campaign, to continue to destroy this country. And, walllah….. someone is going to get to have dinner with Bozo and Bozoette if they win the grand prize. Jes…… I can’t wait.
Stonethrower
June 27th, 2012
10:10 am
He who has the gold rules. We have best government money can buy!
Top super PAC donors
June 27th, 2012
10:10 am
The 9 largest super PAC donors have collectively donated over $60 million to various political causes. Who are these guys?
Super PAC donations: $25,000,000
Political orientation: Conservative
Donation ranking: 1
Casino magnate Sheldon Adelson and his wife Miriam have a lot of money — and they aren’t afraid to use it for political purposes.
During the rough-and-tumble primary season, the couple donated $20 million to Winning Our Future, a super PAC with ties to former House speaker Newt Gingrich.
The donations, which were used to finance attack ads against Mitt Romney, are largely credited with keeping Gingrich in the race while his campaign struggled to raise money.
A $5 million donation was later returned by the super PAC after Gingrich abandoned his bid.
Adelson plans to spend even more to support Republican efforts this fall. He has already given $10 million to Restore Our Future, a pro-Romney super PAC.
Adelson, the current CEO of Las Vegas Sands, isn’t likely to stop there. His total donations this cycle might top $100 million, with some of that going to groups that are not required to disclose their donors.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/news/economy/1206/gallery.super-pac-donors-politics/index.html
St Simons - he-ne-ha
June 27th, 2012
10:11 am
3 words – de-li-cious
-yes, cons, you have a right to privacy.
-until you tattoo citizens united to your ass & parade around the village
laughing into the camera.
man, i never get tired of con karma.
quit leading with your chin, cons
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
10:11 am
ty – at least CA’s was overturned
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
10:13 am
I can pretty well assure you the majority base of conservative voters supports transparency.
And how many of those conservative voters who support transparency would be the very bundlers and high dollar donors being discussed?
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
10:14 am
May I suggest a review of the Disclose act and why the GOP never let it go anywhere…..
ragnar danneskjold
June 27th, 2012
10:15 am
I support the putative “Republican” position. The identity of the speaker has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of the statement – the contrary view is the only theoretical basis for requiring disclosure of the identity of a donor.
The rational basis for protecting the privacy of donors is the well-documented pattern of misbehavior by loopy leftists and union thugs, threatening the lives and property of donors to causes opposed by the screwy-brained.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
10:15 am
Top Donors — “Adelson plans to spend even more to support Republican efforts this fall. He has already given $10 million to Restore Our Future, a pro-Romney super PAC.”
“Adelson, the current CEO of Las Vegas Sands, isn’t likely to stop there. His total donations this cycle might top $100 million, with some of that going to groups that are not required to disclose their donors.”
Given that many Mormons don’t touch caffeinated beverages, believing that a religious injunction against strong drink prohibits them from doing so, I wonder how Romney is able to square his religious convictions with accepting money earned from gambling ventures?
Then again, he sat on the Board of the Marriott Corporation, which has made money for years from the sale of pay-per-view pr0n in ole Bill Marriott’s hotels, so p’raps Mr. Romney’s principles really *are* for sale to the highest bidder.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
10:15 am
Scout: But slavery WAS Constitutional until we amended the Constitution. No such amendment exists that would restrict what the government can tell you to buy. And until tomorrow, no such Supreme Court decision exists with that restriction either.
USMC
June 27th, 2012
10:16 am
“GOP: Massive campaign donations should be secret”–JAY BOOKMAN
Get Jay a Fainting Couch…
What about OBAMA’s OVERSEAS donations where they cannot identify the sourse…. LOL!
Bookman, your dishonesty and partisan politics are despicable.
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
10:17 am
“at least CA’s was overturned”
usinuk,
you’re(not “your”, see, I got it right this time) right, the courts overturned it…though the people voted against same sex marriage(just like NC) and CA also went for Obama in 2008(just like NC)…yet you don’t call CA, “racist” and “Homophobic”…like you did with NC.
Jefferson
June 27th, 2012
10:17 am
Bribes and whores.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
10:17 am
Jm: My solution for campaign finance reform:
Ideal: All public, no private. All from taxes. Flat same amount given to any candidate from any party in a particular race.
What I hope they at least do: Disclosure everywhere, if the ad even remotely addresses a political issue or candidate. Limits on how much contribution can be made, whether from a union, a corporation, or an individual.
What I think will be done: Expansion of who can donate and how much, expansion of what organizations and persons can do this without disclosure.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
10:17 am
R. Danneskjold — “I support the putative “Republican” position.”
Do you really think any of us here hadn’t clued in to that *before* you said it?
JF McNamara
June 27th, 2012
10:17 am
“High-profile donors could face bullying and harassment from liberals out to “muzzle” their opponents, Sen. Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said in a recent speech.”
Free speech does not mean that you can say whatever you want and not face consequences or opposition. It just means that you will not be prosecuted by the government. People are making free speech into more than what it really is.
You are still accountable for what you say and do, and you should not be protected from “bullying”. If you believe in the cause that much, it’s worth overcoming “bullying”. The other side has just as much right to free speech as you do. If you can’t handle opposition then perhaps its something you shouldn’t be doing.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
10:18 am
Erwin’s Cat: An agreed stalemate
You have a strange view on what qualifies as “agreed”
ragnar danneskjold
June 27th, 2012
10:19 am
The essay topic gained impetus with the publishing of Chairman Ann’s recent book, “Demonic,” which reasonably compares leftist campaigns with mindless mob behavior. The subsequent “Occupy” movement gave the topic a push.
Paul
June 27th, 2012
10:19 am
As one noted, right out of the box the comments were ‘what about Obama?” followed by unrelated news posts and other attempts at diversion.
Not ONE post making the case why donors to these groups should be allowed to do their deeds in secret. Jay must be correct: they’re scared. They don’t have the courage to state their convictions publicly. Poor little dears…
Jay
Rule of Thumb: When points are made in the column and bloggers do not attempt to make even a weak challenge, the points you made are valid.
Another think I can’t figure out: why do those who cannot make even a lame attempt to justify their party’s policies continue to adhere to strongly to them?
Adam
June 27th, 2012
10:20 am
USMC: What about OBAMA’s OVERSEAS donations where they cannot identify the sourse…. LOL!
Full disclosure. I don’t want ANY campaign for national, state, or local office receiving foreign money. NONE of them.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
10:20 am
The identity of the speaker has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of the statement.
A real man will stand behind his words. So much for that “putative Republican position”.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
10:20 am
USMC — “What about OBAMA’s OVERSEAS donations where they cannot identify the sourse…. LOL!”
I’m opposed to those, too.
I’ve said more than once that I think that ONLY American citizens of voting age should be able to make political donations, and that there should be HARD CAPS on donations of both hard and soft money per election cycle (say, $2,500 hard money and $2,500 soft money in each 2-year cycle).
If you’re a foreigner, a business or a space alien, your money should never find its way into our political system IMO.
Gordon
June 27th, 2012
10:20 am
Agree with Jay on this one. No limits, full disclosure.
Truth-O-Meter
June 27th, 2012
10:21 am
Never thought I would see the day when other nations would have to intervene to help average citizens get basic rights: To health care and to vote.
Who will come to watch our polls in November to keep Republicans from stealing yet another election. The GOP leader in PA said that voter ID laws passed in that state will ensure that MItt Romney gets elected. And all the time they told everyone it was to keep down voter fraud.
Iraq, Egypt, somebody___we helped you get a democracy, now come help us keep ours
I fear that if Republicans think people will lie down and watch another election stolen by their scheming, they had better set the rewind button; we have seen this movie before.
ragnar danneskjold
June 27th, 2012
10:22 am
Good morning, Joe @ 10:17. I would have thought that my notes on immigration would show that, unlike the leftists on this blog, I do not follow party line. But then, I write only for those who care about logic.
ragnar danneskjold
June 27th, 2012
10:23 am
Dear Brosephus @ 10:20, assume your words mean you oppose secret ballots?
gm
June 27th, 2012
10:24 am
Help me understand this, Gordon Gekko(Willard) sent Americans jobs overseas and stands in front of conservatives who have lost jobs and tell them he is going bring back American jobs, yet he tell these idiots on the right he believe in America, yet he sent your job overseas.
I am sure past generations of rep are turning over in their grave and can not believe the retards on the right but when you follow 3 times college drop out Sean Hannity and high school drop out ex top 20 DJ, Rush the scum anything is possible.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
10:24 am
Another think I can’t figure out: why do those who cannot make even a lame attempt to justify their party’s policies continue to adhere to strongly to them?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTHviJ8eO4Y
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
10:26 am
Dear Brosephus @ 10:20, assume your words mean you oppose secret ballots?
You assume wrong. Secret ballots have nothing to do with exercising free speech in campaigns. Ballots have always been done in secret, even for union organization purposes.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
10:26 am
R. Danneskjold — “Good morning, Joe @ 10:17. I would have thought that my notes on immigration would show that, unlike the leftists on this blog, I do not follow party line. But then, I write only for those who care about logic.”
I ceased to believe that there was any logic whatsoever behind your position when you admitted that you supported the Schiavo Act in Congress. For someone who represents himself as an avowed Libertarian, you have clearly admitted that you have no qualms with using the most coercive forms of state power to force others to behave in accordance with your wishes.
In that one thread, my opinion of you switched from ‘misinformed but polite libertarian’ to ‘dangerous, unhinged wingnut.’
You can dispense with the talk about logic, because you clearly don’t employ any.
ragnar danneskjold
June 27th, 2012
10:27 am
I will sound a contrary note – foreign money in campaigns. One of the tropes the conservatives use against Obama is that he received “billions” of dollars from Islamist donors in 2008. Without debating the truth of the allegation, my response is, “so what?” Those dollars expended by Obama did not make any statement he made any truer, and did not make any statement made by McCain any falser. I think there are some weak minds so affected by advertising, mostly the least educated voters of our populace, but they are also the ones least likely to vote anyway.
Here we go!
June 27th, 2012
10:28 am
I agree with the Montana Gov. – “I will beleive corporations are people when they die on the battlefield defendong our country.” Until such time,corporations have no right to buy our government in plain sight or secretly. Plain and simple.
larry
June 27th, 2012
10:29 am
Who will come to watch our polls in November to keep Republicans from stealing yet another election. The GOP leader in PA said that voter ID laws passed in that state will ensure that MItt Romney gets elected. And all the time they told everyone it was to keep down voter fraud.
I pretty much figured that out. Its all part of the Republican game plan.
Voter ID laws to knock people off of voter rolls that aren’t likely to vote Republican.
Undisclosed donors giving huge sums of money hiding behind Citizens United
Destroy the only groups that are capable to give huge sums of money to the Democratic party,
the unions. Private industry bashed the unions years ago and now they are after public unions.
And finally, since there are no unions to speak for the middle and working class, they sink into poverty . Its been going on for the last 32 years. Their game plan is almost complete.
ragnar danneskjold
June 27th, 2012
10:30 am
Dear Joe @ 10:26, post acknowledged. Just because you believe in the “culture of death” does not require a thinking mind to think similarly. I have never said the government has no purpose in this world, and “protection of the weak from intentional killing by their “protectors” due to the inconvenience of their being” strikes me as a valid purpose for government.
Erwin's cat
June 27th, 2012
10:31 am
Adam – You have a strange view on what qualifies as “agreed”
I don’t take much at face value when it concerns politics and politicians
Paul
June 27th, 2012
10:32 am
Congrats, Brosephus
You’ve managed to insult sheep and Poles!
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
10:32 am
Boo freaking hoo!!!! If you libs can’t get out and raise money that’s just to bad. Obviously big and small business’s don’t like the policy’s set forth by Oblama and the demoncrats so they want Conservatives who are more business friendly for job creators to be in power.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
10:34 am
Paul
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
10:34 am
The worst governement that dirty money can buy.
And the corporatist fake conservatives in the GOP absolutely love it.
Look no furhter than the disgraceful Mr. McConnell, himself.
The man is not worthy of running a local PTA, much less have a position of power in the unethical, inept Lily White Party…
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
10:35 am
Adam @ 10:17
Ideal: All public, no private. All from taxes. Flat same amount given to any candidate from any party in a particular race.
I’m with you 100% on that.
A dad
June 27th, 2012
10:36 am
Given the blind antics of liberal groups like Act Up, OWS, MoveOn, etc., is it any wonder why a large donor might wish for some priavacy. Those groups aren’t know for their rational thought and all. But hey, certain folk want to protect abortion clinics from picketing, etc. Can’t have it both ways folks, Either open season or we will continue to whittle away at rational thoght in this country.
Also, comparing a large donor with someone who puts up a re-election sign in their front yard or a bumper sticker on their car in terms of harassment? C’mon Jay. that’s about the dumbest comparions I’ve seen you make.
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
June 27th, 2012
10:36 am
The GOP wants Buffett or Soros to proclaim their donations publicly though.
I wish I had a dime for every wingnut that falsely claimed Soros was secretly funding someone.
larry
June 27th, 2012
10:36 am
Funny , though, the Republicans dont want to do anything about absentee voting . You are likely to have fraud by the absentee ballad than in the voting booth.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
10:37 am
R. Danneskjold — “Dear Joe @ 10:26, post acknowledged. Just because you believe in the “culture of death”
Blah, blah, blah, vapid sloganeering, blah blah.
“does not require a thinking mind to think similarly.”
At this point, I no longer believe that you actually think.
“I have never said the government has no purpose in this world”
You have repeatedly represented yourself as a Libertarian. It’s quite clear now that you’re only a Libertarian of convenience, and that you’re a dyed-in-the-wool Statist when it serves your personal beliefs and purposes.
“and “protection of the weak from intentional killing by their “protectors” due to the inconvenience of their being” strikes me as a valid purpose for government.”
I don’t doubt that you sincerely believe that, but your personal beliefs are insufficient reason for state power to be used to compel others to behave in accordance with them. Furthermore, there’s no explicit or implicit grant of that sort of power to government in the Constitution.
(laughing) Who’d believe it — Ragnar making up a governmental power out of whole cloth and asserting that it’s a “valid purpose for government?”
ragnar danneskjold
June 27th, 2012
10:37 am
Dear Brosephus @ 10:26, to follow your argument then, you would require personal identification of any advocacy up to the point of the casting of a ballot, then and only then excusing public identification?
I think some of our disagreement on this issue arises from our differing perceptions of truth. For leftists, the identity of the speaker is more important than the consistency of the argument – my definition of cultism. That is why leftists reject, without any consideration, logical arguments forwarded by Chairman Ann or Dr. Sowell or Dr. Walter E Williams. The “citation to authority” guides the opinions of leftists.
The conservative view is different – any “nobody” can advance an argument among conservatives, and see that view widely accepted. That is why conservative talk radio and the conservative blogosphere have so many more “stars” than the leftist side.
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
10:37 am
To dad’s point, why are most of the men in the 1% such cowards?
kayaker 71
June 27th, 2012
10:38 am
If Bozo was raising all of this money for his campaign, it would be ignored and Bookman would be talking about some other fault of the evil Republicans. Selective indignation rears its ugly head yet again.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
10:39 am
A dad — “But hey, certain folk want to protect abortion clinics from picketing, etc. Can’t have it both ways folks, Either open season or we will continue to whittle away at rational thoght in this country.”
Are you not reading what others are posting in this thread? Are you not seeing others saying ‘yeah, okay, make it all public?’
ragnar danneskjold
June 27th, 2012
10:39 am
Dear Joe @ 10:37, one expects disparagement rather than real thought from a leftist.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
10:40 am
to follow your argument then, you would require personal identification of any advocacy up to the point of the casting of a ballot, then and only then excusing public identification?
You may be requiring ID to vote (which I actually only have a problem with in this whole “DO IT NOW” and “DO IT THIS WAY” and “EXCLUDE THESE IDs” thing), but you are NOT requiring every person’s vote to be publicly analyzed. Nor should you.
atler8
June 27th, 2012
10:41 am
0311/….etc. etc.
Re your post at 9:31..
Yeah, sort of like how some right thinking super patriot spread bubble gum all over my anti-Bush bumper sticker & the car itself back in 2004, right? The coward did the bubble-gumming in a quiet corner of a parking deck where there was little foot traffic & risk of his/her being caught in the act.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
10:41 am
If Bozo was raising all of this money for his campaign, it would be ignored and Bookman would be talking about some other fault of the evil Republicans.
Unless the Republicans started complaining about the financing of campaigns. n which case it would still be part of the conversation and I’d be on the Republicans’ side.
I want good policy, not party.
larry
June 27th, 2012
10:41 am
Obviously big and small business’s don’t like the policy’s set forth by Oblama and the demoncrats so they want Conservatives who are more business friendly for job creators to be in power.
My boss, a small business owner, liked the nice tax credit he recieved from the ACA to give his employees health insurance. He, along with 359, 999 other small business owners are worried he might have to pay that back after tommorrow.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
10:41 am
R. Danneskjold — “That is why leftists reject, without any consideration, logical arguments forwarded by Chairman Ann or Dr. Sowell or Dr. Walter E Williams. The “citation to authority” guides the opinions of leftists.”
And “citation to authority” is exactly what you just did here.
Furthermore, calling Ann Coulter “Chairman Ann” is absolutely emblematic of the behavior you *pretend* to decry. (laughing)
Adam
June 27th, 2012
10:42 am
larry @ 10:41
Boom!
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
10:42 am
I’m dumbfounded that anyone outside of the immediate benefactors (i.e., these crooked politicians) would seriously oppose full disclosure of superPAC money.
Good luck selling that crap to the public.
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
10:43 am
I hope the Romney campaign gets all the money it needs to evict Obama from the White House. In fact I’m writing a check in the amount of $50.00 for the Romney campaign. There full disclosure. Feel free to report me for inclusion on Obama’s enemies list.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
10:43 am
R. Danneskjold — “Dear Joe @ 10:37, one expects disparagement rather than real thought from a leftist.”
You’ve long since abandoned any credible claim you might have had to “real thought” when you sold out your *claimed* Libertarianism for your *actual* Statism.
Given that your true nature is now on display, you needn’t play the wounded — a Statist like you is *far, far* more dangerous than any Socialist.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
10:44 am
In fact I’m writing a check in the amount of $50.00 for the Romney campaign.
Better think about raising that, because I’ve already donated more than that to Obama 2012.
kayaker 71
June 27th, 2012
10:44 am
Adam, 10:41,
Ever heard of McCain-Feingold?
Cosby
June 27th, 2012
10:44 am
Hmm…when the annoited one – The self appointed Ruler – outstripped the GOP in the last election no no one said a word..now that the GOP is at least matching or even doing better does the retoric come out against money raising….but I somewhat agree but since the ruler wants to TAX THE RICH…lets just TAX THE CONTRIBUTIONS to a candidate, any candidate local, state and federal, at 75% and apply that money directly to Social Security, then we would not ahve to be punished by all the thrash and lies they will put on the air – radio, TV, internet. On top of that, if The Ruler uses Air Force One to Campaign with..then charge him a fair rate for use. But then The Dear Ruler would not like that would he….
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
10:46 am
The moniker Chairman Ann is hysterical on several levels.
Is it a reference to her Adam’s Apple?
Code for Commie speak?
Or just the sad human condition of adoring an utterly depraved, hyper-bigoted, anit-Semitic human being?
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
10:46 am
Recon — “In fact I’m writing a check in the amount of $50.00 for the Romney campaign. There full disclosure. Feel free to report me for inclusion on Obama’s enemies list.”
Why would anyone treat you like an enemy for exercising your rights?
Adam
June 27th, 2012
10:46 am
kayaker: Yes and I support McCain and other Republicans who are on board with disclosure and with limiting donations. I disagree with some other policies. But the scenario I was referring to is the make believe one in which Obama simply outraising people post-Citizens United would somehow make me opposed to the things I support.
Batman
June 27th, 2012
10:46 am
Unions hid the amounts they gave and continue to give. And of course, they were giving Union’s dues of both Democrats and Republican Union Members, whether the members liked it or not.
But of course, this is a huge deal because finally, the GOP has the upper hand in financing.
Having Obama in office for four years has been a good thing. Every time the overt propaganda that the mainstream media puts out results in some liberal joke in the White House, they always mess it up and Republicans will have power again for years, so THANKS, BARRY. Now back to Chicago with you.
larry
June 27th, 2012
10:47 am
I am all for full disclosure. I dont care if the President is getting campaign contributions from Dubai or if Mr. Romney is getting them from the president of British Petrolium, i want to know about it.
And with that , im out.
Dirty Dawg
June 27th, 2012
10:47 am
As much I cherish the thought of waking up on Nov 7 to the realization that all those greedy-a$$ billionaires pi$$ed away hundreds and hundreds of millions and got nothing for it and Obama gets another term, but alas they’ve got enough money to buy all the local elections which means even more obstruction and gridlock…along with some trumped-up impeachment charges. No, the only hope for this country is dramatic changes to campaigns and campaign financing. Extreme limits on the amount to be spent, the length of time when active campaigning can exist, public financing of all campaigns and the subsequent banning of all campaign contributions. Unless and untill we get rid of the legalized bribery this is the ‘democracy’ we’ll have. Of course there’ll still be those that’ll take bribes, but at least they’ll be easier to catch and lock up.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
10:47 am
Cosby: when the annoited one – The self appointed Ruler – outstripped the GOP in the last election no no one said a word.
Donations were disclosed, and limited, at that time. Apples and oranges.
John Christopher
June 27th, 2012
10:48 am
Secret donations! I’m shocked, flabbergasted! Please……
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
10:48 am
“Better think about raising that, because I’ve already donated more than that to Obama 2012.”
Adam. one up man ship, huh!
Jay
June 27th, 2012
10:50 am
Some of you may remember a recent spate of Drudge-inspired blog comments about Charles Barron, “an anti-semite, former black panther in New York” whom conservatives were certain was about to be elected to Congress as a Democrat. Fox News also highlighted Barron as part of its ongoing marketing campaign to frighten white people into watching more Fox News.
For the record, Barron lost in yesterday’s Dem primary, drawing 25 percent of the vote to the winner’s 75 percent.
Tundra Dude
June 27th, 2012
10:50 am
Jesse Ventura:
“I wish they would pass a law where all Democrats and Republicans had to wear Nascar racing suits, because if you look at the Nascar drivers, it tells who their sponsors are. And if they do that, we could then become informed voters, because we would know who owns them. “
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
10:51 am
Dear Brosephus @ 10:26, to follow your argument then, you would require personal identification of any advocacy up to the point of the casting of a ballot, then and only then excusing public identification?
Nope. If you’re speaking out in public, it’s kind of hard to hide your identity unless you’re on an internet blog or wearing an Elmo costume. If you’re spending money to drive a political message, then I think it’s only fair that those who are subjected to that messgage know who’s peddling it.
As to voting, there is no fee paid or cost to vote. Voting has never been by public ballot in elections, so why start now? It has nothing to do with your leftists/conservative crap. That whole lame assed argument is your method of trying to hide your motivations in that you want nothing more than a nanny state government that acquiesces to what YOU want or think is right. Sorry bud, but that ain’t how the US worked in the past, and you and your other flunkies are not gonna get it now.
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
June 27th, 2012
10:51 am
Sadly, Sheldon Adelson is spending hundreds of millions to buy a full ground war with Iran.
The GOP is the home of the Jewish neocons – a small subset of rational Jews.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
10:52 am
Recon: If it’s true you want him to have more money than Obama, then surely you can do better than $50. After all, you must make more money than someone who is assumed to be a tent dweller that gets paid to write on blogs
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
10:53 am
“The self appointed Ruler – outstripped the GOP in the last election no no one said a word.”
Rubbish.
I wrote repeatedly ont his very forum that for the first time in American history that the Dem candidate outraised the corporatist candidate in corporate money.
And when it returns to the historic norm, as it will this time, your faux outrage will disappear quicker than a UGA Young Republican from a ROTC recruiter…
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
10:53 am
alas they’ve got enough money to buy all the local elections which means even more obstruction and gridlock…
oh, it’s worse than that, and I really want people to start thinking about what’s really evil about the CU decision + no disclosure requirements.
these superPACs, they won’t necessarily have to get “their guys” elected if they’re not happy with some official. (won’t matter if the official is GOP or Dem.)
They can simply pay a visit and have a quiet chat, and quite legally inform the official that if he doesn’t play ball with them on a bill they want passed, they can begin funding a crapstorm of TV ads calling him a child molester, or what have you. It will be completely legal. And it would be beyond naive to imagine it won’t happen–and probably already is.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
10:54 am
yet you don’t call CA, “racist” and “Homophobic”…like you did with NC
Ty – sorry for the delay – if you remember the CA campaign, it was primarily run by a bunch of out-of-staters (Idaho, to be specific) – makes a huge difference
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
10:54 am
Jay,
Good for NY…though that doesn’t quiet make up for reelecting the ethically challenged Rangel.
martin the calvinist
June 27th, 2012
10:54 am
I disagree with Adam, no tax payer funded campaigns. Instead, I think we ought to do this:
1. raise the personal contribution by individuals to 10,000 per election cycle
2. no bundling
3. no corporation, non profits entities, no policy group, no unions, no outside the US money
4. Full disclosure of who donates to ensure you only donate what you are allowed.
5. Only allow candidates to fund their campaigns by the personal limit to individuals. ie don’t allow millionaires to spend their wealth trying to buy an elected position
DBCOOPER
June 27th, 2012
10:54 am
Sounds like the LIBS are a little frightened. Countdown to November!
This mistake has to be corrected.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
10:55 am
Adam — “After all, you must make more money than someone who is assumed to be a tent dweller that gets paid to write on blogs.”
Indeed!
Come on, Recon, I bet Adam scrapes that much in change out of fountains on a good night, and my gubmint checks add up to at LEAST four or five times that much in a month.
(laughing)
getalife
June 27th, 2012
10:55 am
We need a choice to dissolve corrupt congress.
They are out of control.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
10:55 am
“Charles Barron, “an anti-semite, former black panther in New York” whom conservatives were certain was about to be elected to Congress as a Democrat”
vs.
Leaders of the Republican Committee of Luzerne County, Pa., are trying to figure out whether they can oust a reputed white supremacist who was elected to the committee with one vote – his own.
Steven Smith, co-founder of a racist group called the Keystone State Skinheads, was elected to one of two committee seats for his district, Pittston City’s Ward 4, during Pennsylvania’s April 24 primary election.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/07/12107097-steve-smith-reputed-white-supremacist-causes-stir-by-winning-election-to-pennsylvania-county-gop-seat?lite
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
10:55 am
drawing 25 percent of the vote to the winner’s 75 percent.
golly, Sargent Carter, maybe it’s ok to let the coloreds vote after all!
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
10:56 am
UsinUk,
the Idahoans didn’t vote for Prop 8…”Homophobic” Californians cast the ballots…and a majority of ‘em too.
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
10:56 am
Adam,
I’m not a one percenter like you, so I have to send my contributions in installments. BTW…do you get paid under the table or must you report your blog earnings?
mm
June 27th, 2012
10:57 am
“The moniker Chairman Ann is hysterical on several levels.”
I still wonder why someone would name their son Ann.
Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people
June 27th, 2012
10:57 am
Please leave adelson out of this. Whack away at the rest of the guys
Personal heartburn……
cranky old man
June 27th, 2012
10:58 am
When making decisions about which products and services to buy, I think I have a right to know if some of the profits from the money I spend will be used to broadcast a political message with which I disagree. Isn’t that a major complaint conservatives have about lobbying by unions? That some union members might object to the way their dues are spent?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
10:58 am
Let’s not forget to monitor all of those diverted “wedding gifts” that Obama is asking for.
Good grief ……… is that pathetic or what?
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
10:58 am
“This mistake has to be corrected.”
Republispeak for…
BRING BACK GEORGE! BRING BACK GEORGE! BRING BACK GEORGE!
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
10:59 am
Cosby
“On top of that, if The Ruler uses Air Force One to Campaign with..then charge him a fair rate for use”
What’s your problem with the rate he pays now?
Is it lower than the rate George Bush paid?
Please enlighten us……
mm
June 27th, 2012
11:00 am
All the money in the world is not going to get liar Romney elected.
And the flood of negative ads by the super pacs aren’t going to do him any favors either.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
11:01 am
“They say when the cat’s away the mice will play… which seems to be the case whenever First Lady Michelle Obama isn’t around to watch over her husband’s daily dose of healthy foods.
Tuesday afternoon, President Obama sneaked in another fast-food pit stop st The Varsity ………..”
P.S. I hear the Dems. want to shut down that den of obesity !
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
11:02 am
Oh well another boring blog but I’m sure things will heat up tomorrow. Later and y’all enjoy the day.
Money Wasted
June 27th, 2012
11:02 am
Millions will be spent and Barack Obama will get re-elected. The GOP and corporations will realize that they could have used those million$ to put people back to work!! Just imagine how many teenagers could be in the workforce at this very moment restoring America! There is so much work to be done and money is being thrown in the wind!!
Adam
June 27th, 2012
11:02 am
Recon: I’m not a one percenter like you, so I have to send my contributions in installments.
I sent mine in installments. $50 is less than my total donation so far. Just sayin.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
11:03 am
Poor poor Oblama is falling flat with his fundraising obviously. Hence the Bookman tripe whining about how the GOP raises money. Why no blog on how dems are running from Oblama in an alarming way. Why don’t they want to campaign with him Jay?
Adam
June 27th, 2012
11:04 am
The GOP and corporations will realize that they could have used those million$ to put people back to work!!
Don’t hold your breath on that one….
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
11:04 am
Isn’t that a major complaint conservatives have about lobbying by unions? That some union members might object to the way their dues are spent?
Your problem there is that you’re using logic instead of emotion. See, when you mention the word union, it’s all emotion for some conservatives. They lose any semblance of logic. Also, you can choose not to buy a company’s product, but you can’t choose to work at a job without collective bargaining or union representation. Unions force people to take those jobs so that they have more people paying dues and stuff….
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
11:04 am
Poor cowardly GOP donors. Scared of getting boycotted. Someone needs to write them a song.
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
11:04 am
‘P.S. I hear the Dems. want to shut down that den of obesity !’
Someone is all emotional again today…
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
11:05 am
Paul, if you’re around–from downstairs:
When I was a kid my dad had a Heinkel scooter.
Incredibly cool.
Also, given this fact, if you (or your dad) never read this:
http://www.amazon.com/See-My-Outfit-Cross-Country-Adventure/dp/1585790478
you oughta.
(the .c 1960 cross-country adventure documented therein having been done on Heinkels.)
Money Wasted
June 27th, 2012
11:05 am
Why no blog on how dems are running from Oblama in an alarming way.
_______
Is that the same reason that George W. Bush is running from the GOP? Where is he? Does he support Mitt Romney?
207 more days
June 27th, 2012
11:06 am
It’s kind of like the O/Bama/Holder transparency, but that is covering up a murder isn’t it?
I don’t have a problem with transparency but it must be both sides doing it and it must be consistent.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
11:06 am
Poor poor Oblama is falling flat with his fundraising obviously.
poor poor Joseph read Drudge yesterday and doesn’t have any new talking points.
Someone, please give? for only pennies a day, you can give a little troll like Joseph hope for a better tomorrow.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
11:06 am
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
You big silly! Your confusion must come from the fact that you never get the whole story.
FLOTUS thinks it ok to splurge a little once and a while.
and YES, that means you can put a scoop of ice cream in your ensure for lunch!
josef
June 27th, 2012
11:06 am
USinUK
“Ty – sorry for the delay – if you remember the CA campaign, it was primarily run by a bunch of out-of-staters (Idaho, to be specific) – makes a huge difference”
Oh? Sounds to me like that old “outside agitator” line so beloved by our own natives…
Sorry, but on this one, Ty’s right…it’s that old double standard…let the South show its sheets, and its front page news for weeks on end, let the rest of the country show theirs, and it’s at best a flash in the pan…
Sauce for the goose is not always sauce for the gander…
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
June 27th, 2012
11:07 am
Romney collected more in May only. Obama still has a big money lead.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
11:08 am
It’s kind of like the O/Bama/Holder transparency
ya know, FFS, is it really asking too much for you schmucks to address the freaking issue at hand?
Do you really think this pathetic “but you guys kinda do it too, if you squint and look sideways through a glass of your own urine!” response is gonna cut it?
Ahem
June 27th, 2012
11:08 am
It is stunning to read this opinion as if only one political party were involved in the BIG money game. Absolutely stunning. Shamelessly stunning indeed.
josef
June 27th, 2012
11:10 am
As for the topic…so what else is new? Money talks and bullsh*t walks. Campaign finance reform is bullsh*t…
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
11:10 am
Money Wasted:
Bush took part in the 08′ convention because he was still President of course. Past Presidents normally don’t have a part in Conventions but all candidates usually attend. You won’t see Bill Clintoon in Charlotte.. Is it not obvious that Obama has failed and no one wants to be tied to a failure..
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
11:10 am
it’s all emotion for some conservatives.
that’s unpossible. Conservatives constantly inform me that they are all about logic, never emotion. Why talk to them about…
abortion
gun control
the death penalty
taxes
and yeah, workers’ rights
… it’s all clear as a bell, right-down-the-middle.
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
11:10 am
and YES, that means you can put a scoop of ice cream in your ensure for lunch!
Just be sure to cinch that depends waistband a little snugger just in case you are lactose intolerant though.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
11:11 am
207 more days….while I agree all should do it…
I certainly have been raised well enough to know that waiting for somebody else to do the right thing is a really crappy excuse for not doing the right thing.
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
11:11 am
Josef,
yeah, for a minute I though she might go with the oldie but goodie, “It’s because of the Mormons!”
FEAR (False Evidence Appearing Real)
June 27th, 2012
11:13 am
I just want my country back. The grotesquely in-your-face radical Supremes sitting on our land’s highest court seem perfectly happy to turn our democracy into a plutocracy. Where’s the poutrage from those tea people???
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
11:13 am
Just imagine how many teenagers could be in the workforce at this very moment restoring America!
And keeping high paid Union members at home on their duffs.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
11:13 am
Funny Jay wants transparency from political donors but not from the Oblama administration to find out what really happened with Fast & Furious…
gm
June 27th, 2012
11:13 am
0311/8541/5811/
1811/1801
Please vote for Willard (Gekko) so he can send the rest of American jobs overseas and tell you idiots how much he believes in America, you people are the most sick Americans of any rep generations,
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
11:13 am
‘You won’t see Bill Clintoon in Charlotte.’
I bet you will see both Bill and Hil…
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
11:13 am
It is stunning to read this opinion as if only one political party were involved in the BIG money game.
Both parties stand to leverage big money through the CU decision horrors; obviously the Goopers are in a better position at the present, but the Dems will find a way.
I don’t want them to do that. I don’t want anyone beholden to what the highest bidder dictates. There’s enough indirect bribery going on pre-CU; this enshrines it as a constitutional right, and by not requiring disclosure, we’re committing (I don’t think this is overstating things) a slow suicide from a thousand cuts.
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
11:13 am
Conservatives constantly inform me that they are all about logic, never emotion.
And they prove it too with all their posting of links to unemotional fact-based analysis, studies conducted by experts, etc. Okay, I made another funny.
too little time
June 27th, 2012
11:14 am
Who? How many is “many”? One? Two? Of course there are some in the GOP who feel this way. There have been Democratic donors and bundlers who didn’t want to go public, too. I can pretty well assure you the majority base of conservative voters supports transparency.
Bingo. This time, JB paints “the GOP” with a massively broad brush. The only folks who want to keep it secret are those who donate big amounts. And the reasons are varied. Some want to keep it secret are to prevent lawyers and “journalists” from sticking their collective noses in every nook and cranny of the donor’s lives, looking for dirt. Some want to keep it secret to prevent the non-stop picketing outside of their home, threatening their families and children.
Republicans don’t generally use these tactics. Nobody went to Obama’s bundler’s houses and threatened their families, or funded legions of attorneys to bribe local officials to pry open closed court documents, etc, etc, etc. I certainly don’t want someone reading MY name off of a list of donors and showing up at MY house to yell epitaphs, threaten my family, and ruin my quality of life. No one deserves that, but Democrats think it is perfectly find to be obnoxious azzwholes in this way. It’s like bringing the occupy crowd to your front door.
Steve - USA ("None of the Above")
June 27th, 2012
11:15 am
Transparency is the way to go.
Money Wasted
June 27th, 2012
11:15 am
Joseph@11:10 Is that the reason that George W. Bush can wear the crown as “The Worst U.S. President” EVER?
The partial tally of what this nation lost under President Bush so far:
• The World Trade Center
• A piece of the Pentagon
• Five or six trillion dollars–again, so far
• A doubled national debt
• Over six-thousand dead American soldiers and over forty-seven-thousand wounded (not to mention billions of dollars in weapons, supplies, and equipment blown up, wasted, or stolen)
• Untold numbers of Iraqis, Afghanis, and Pakistanis dead and wounded, and thousands of refugees
• The sympathy and the cooperation of almost every nation on the planet
• A big chunk of New Orleans
• The housing market
• Every amendment in the Bill Of Rights except the second
• A valuable CIA agent specializing in nuclear counter-proliferation
• Safe airline travel
• Safe food
• Safe water
• Safe, regulated exploration for and extraction of coal, oil, and gas
• Impartial climate science
• The integrity of the Justice and Interior departments
• Years of government research on climate change
• Eight years of stem cell research
• The nation’s moral standing on war crimes and torture
• Two million jobs
• Fair elections
• The integrity of the private property system
• Trillions of dollars swindled from Americans by banks you refused to regulate
• The Kyoto Treaty
• Three-thousand points off the Dow
(I would list the American automobile industry but President Obama mitigated that one…)
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
11:15 am
A lib talking about transparency is like a fat person talking about going on a diet… They talk about it all the time but never live up to it….
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
11:16 am
Money Wasted:
Wow you know how to copy and paste…. LOL… You fruits are insane…
SwamiDave
June 27th, 2012
11:16 am
So long as there are lunatic-fringe liberals who are engaging in “SWAT”ing of their political opponents putting both citizens and law enforcement personnel at grave risk, the concerns are valid.
There should be transparency for all donations, but membership of organizations is none of your business or mine.
Maybe law enforcement and the criminal courts should identify, arrest, and convict these “SWAT”ers of filing a false claim, assault, destruction of property, and attempted murder to address this problem!
-SD
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
11:16 am
‘Funny Jay wants transparency from political donors but not from the Oblama administration to find out what really happened with Fast & Furious…’
Joseph, you like many others, have no idea about the actual facts of the case. I strongly suggest you read this article to keep from appearing like an uninformed hack:
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/?hpt=hp_t2
Once you separate the reality of the situation from the manner in which it has been contorted for political gain, it is sickening…
getalife
June 27th, 2012
11:16 am
cons should self deport to planet kolob.
USMC
June 27th, 2012
11:16 am
“Full disclosure. I don’t want ANY campaign for national, state, or local office receiving foreign money. NONE of them.”–Adam
Wise words from Adam which I think we can all agree on.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
11:17 am
Past Presidents normally don’t have a part in Conventions
Did I hallucinate in 1988, when RR told HW Bush to “win one for the Gipper?”
why no. I did not.
http://www.reagansheritage.org/html/reagan_rnc_88.shtml
(Clinton was ill at the time of the 2004 DNC, but he was there speechifyin’ in 2008, as well.)
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
11:17 am
John Barrow(D) will vote to hold Holder in contempt… Wow finally we are getting some bipartisanship going on in Washington. All agree that Oblama/Holder is a failure….
Money Wasted
June 27th, 2012
11:17 am
Joseph, again I ask you “Where is George W. Bush?”
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
11:17 am
‘Maybe law enforcement and the criminal courts should identify, arrest, and convict these “SWAT”ers of filing a false claim, assault, destruction of property, and attempted murder to address this problem!’
Are you suggesting that these felonies are not being investigated?
CJ
June 27th, 2012
11:17 am
Joseph @11:13,
What really happened with Fast and Furious?
Jay
June 27th, 2012
11:18 am
Ahem, you seem to be easily stunned. Perhaps the result of too many earlier concussions?
Yes, both parties are attempting to bring in big-money donations, because that’s the way the game must be played at the moment.
However, one party wants to reinstitute limits if possible, and at least mandate full disclosure if limits are not politically or legally feasible.
The other party opposes limits and opposes letting the American people see where the campaign funds are coming from.
Pretty simple but important difference.
Oh, and Joseph? GW Bush did not attend the ‘08 convention, explaining by satellite that “my duties have me here in Washington tonight to oversee the federal government’s efforts to help citizens recover from Hurricane Gustav.”
Yeah, he just couldn’t manage to get away.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
11:18 am
stands for decibels:
Reagan is an exception. Anyone with a brain loved him. Did Clintoon speak in 08′ for Oblama or did I miss that?
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
11:18 am
read this article to keep from appearing like an uninformed hack:
where’s the fun for us in that?
Oscar
June 27th, 2012
11:18 am
ll disclosure. I don’t want ANY campaign for national, state, or local office receiving foreign money. NONE of them.”–Adam
_____
Under present law, there is no way to stop it, or even know about it.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
11:19 am
It’s kind of like the O/Bama/Holder transparency, but that is covering up a murder isn’t it?
Although I generally avoid off-topic posts for the attention-whore aspect they permeate, I’ll indulge this one here simply because I think this article is an interesting read on the whole “Bad Holder” thingie that’s got some conservatives springing woodies like a Viagra convention.
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/
Conservatives have pummeled the Obama administration, and especially Holder, for more than a year. “Who authorized this program that was so felony stupid that it got people killed?” Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, demanded to know in a hearing in June 2011. He has charged the Justice Department, which oversees the ATF, with having “blood on their hands.” Issa and more than 100 other Republican members of Congress have demanded Holder’s resignation.
The conflict has escalated dramatically in the past ten days. On June 20, in a day of political brinkmanship, Issa’s committee voted along party lines, 23 to 17, to hold Holder in contempt of Congress for allegedly failing to turn over certain subpoenaed documents, which the Justice Department contended could not be released because they related to ongoing criminal investigations. The vote came hours after President Obama asserted executive privilege to block the release of the documents. Holder now faces a vote by the full House of Representatives this week on the contempt motion (though negotiations over the documents continue). Assuming a vote occurs, it will be the first against an attorney general in U.S. history.
As political pressure has mounted, ATF and Justice Department officials have reversed themselves. After initially supporting Group VII agents and denying the allegations, they have since agreed that the ATF purposefully chose not to interdict guns it lawfully could have seized. Holder testified in December that “the use of this misguided tactic is inexcusable, and it must never happen again.”
There’s the rub.
Quite simply, there’s a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn.
Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies. Fortune reviewed more than 2,000 pages of confidential ATF documents and interviewed 39 people, including seven law-enforcement agents with direct knowledge of the case. Several, including Voth, are speaking out for the first time.
How Fast and Furious reached the headlines is a strange and unsettling saga, one that reveals a lot about politics and media today. It’s a story that starts with a grudge, specifically Dodson’s anger at Voth. After the terrible murder of agent Terry, Dodson made complaints that were then amplified, first by right-wing bloggers, then by CBS. Rep. Issa and other politicians then seized those elements to score points against the Obama administration, which, for its part, has capitulated in an apparent effort to avoid a rhetorical battle over gun control in the run-up to the presidential election. (A Justice Department spokesperson denies this and asserts that the department is not drawing conclusions until the inspector general’s report is submitted.)
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
11:19 am
Those poor wealthy donors so worried about being exposed and having people boycott their private residences in hopes of picking the right gated entrance and disrupting the security guard’s nap. Where’s my nano-violin. I have the hardest time keeping up with that thing.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
11:19 am
stands for decibels:
And will they wheel Jimmy Carter out and prop him up for a speech as well??
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
11:20 am
Tax: And they prove it too with all their posting of links to unemotional fact-based analysis, studies conducted by experts, etc.
You mean like you posted from Earthworks earlier?
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
June 27th, 2012
11:20 am
Will Dumbya be told to stay away from the GOP Convention again this year?
Welcome to the Occupation
June 27th, 2012
11:21 am
Pardon the off-topic, but Jay you said the other day that the explanation of the growing chasm in income/wealth in our country was not really about policy. Here’s a rebuttal of that from Stiglitz:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-policy-has-contributed-to-the-great-economic-divide/2012/06/22/gJQAXTX2vV_story.html
How policy has contributed to the great economic divide
The United States is in the midst of a vicious cycle of inequality and recession: Inequality prolongs the downturn, and the downturn exacerbates inequality. Unfortunately, the austerity agenda advocated by conservatives will make matters worse on both counts.
The seriousness of America’s growing problem of inequality was highlighted by Federal Reserve data released this month showing the recession’s devastating effect on the wealth and income of those at the bottom and in the middle. The decline in median wealth, down almost 40 percent in just three years, wiped out two decades of wealth accumulation for most Americans. If the average American had actually shared in the country’s seeming prosperity the past two decades, his wealth, instead of stagnating, would have increased by some three-fourths.
Peadawg
June 27th, 2012
11:21 am
“one party wants to reinstitute limits if possible
Only b/c the other side is getting more donations. Funny how the whining starts when the tables are turned.
But of course, if the Democrats were saying this back in 2008 when Obama outspent McCain, I’ll gladly insert my foot in my mouth and shut up.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
11:21 am
LHU @ 11:16
I read that one earlier this morning and was waiting on the F&F brayers to allow that one to be posted.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
11:22 am
They legalized corruption.
cons are for it.
Why?
They do what the gop tell them to do.
No questions asked.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
11:22 am
Jay:
I guess since Bush was doing his job that should be held against him? He did take part obviously.
ITS ALL BUSHIES FAULT
June 27th, 2012
11:22 am
All of the money ever printed will not get the pandering phoney carpert bagging mormom mooron elected.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
11:22 am
I wondering if Oblama may skip the DNC convention???
Woodstock Mike
June 27th, 2012
11:22 am
It’s great seeing these liberals starting to squirm!! It’s clear now that Obama is not the favorite. It’s clear that although Obama has very good intentions he isn’t capable of making things happen in Washington.
The debates will decide this election. The number one focus for voters is the economy and jobs. Both of these issues Romeny is far and away better than Obama.
Obama was dealt a difficult hand, unfortunately he couldn’t get it done, probably not all his fault, but Americans vote on results and even if the issues our country faces aren’t Obama’s fault directly, since he is president he is held responsible.
philosopher
June 27th, 2012
11:23 am
“If you want changes to the policy, talk to your elected representatives.” Well, now…that sounds like wise advice…unless you live in Georgia where the good ol’ boys manipulate policy to suit themselves and respond only to their handlers.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
11:23 am
So, when a con cries about corruption or no transparency, kindly remind them they are for it.
Ronnie Raygun
June 27th, 2012
11:24 am
Why are Republicans suddenly against revealing where their super PAC money comes from?
Because they know the American people wouldn’t be happy to know that they are taking hundreds of millions of dollars in bribes from China and the Middle East. But I’m sure citizens those countries have Americans best interests at heart. Even the terrorist groups that are contributing to Romney because Obama had their leader killed.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
11:24 am
Lord Help Us:
So I should read a blog to inform myself. Do you people just type without thinking first?
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
11:24 am
Joseph
don’t be afraid we are gonna take your guns….no worries mate.
we’ll leave the guns behind when we put you in the gulag
Woodstock Mike
June 27th, 2012
11:24 am
“All of the money ever printed will not get the pandering phoney carpert bagging mormom mooron elected.”
This kind of comment above shows the authors true colors. I thought liberals were open minded? And you do realize Obama is ordering the printing of money you fool…
Money Wasted
June 27th, 2012
11:25 am
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
11:22 am
Where was George W. Bush when the people of New Orleans were on the streets begging for help?
Jay
June 27th, 2012
11:25 am
Right, Joseph. Bush couldn’t be budged off his ranch for the much-worse Katrina, but was so essential in Gustav that he didn’t dare leave Washington.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
11:25 am
The debates will decide this election.
they never have, actually, but I guess there’s a first time for everything.
USMC
June 27th, 2012
11:26 am
“…Fox News also highlighted Barron as part of its ongoing marketing campaign to frighten white people into watching more Fox News….”–JAY BOOKMAN
So Fox News has an “ongoing marketing campaign” to scare “white people”???
Jay Bookman is a clearly an OUT OF TOUCH extremist/Partisan Hack hired by the AJC to write outrageous columns to draw reaction… LOL!!! Scaring White People???
I suppose CNN’s Racist “BLACK IN AMERICA” is part of CNN’s “ongoing marketing campaign” to scare “Black People”??? What a joke, Bookman, that was a “clown statement, Bro” .
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
11:26 am
You mean like you posted from Earthworks earlier?
Godless,
I mean your lack of posting actually. Also, that site does contain quite a bit of information, in an unemotional format, from experts in the field including USGS, Halliburton, etc. Perhaps you would be so kind as to post some links to studies for discussion. I anxiously await.
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
11:26 am
carpert bagging mormom mooron
Pot meet kettle.
ITS ALL BUSHIES FAULT
June 27th, 2012
11:27 am
I think Heman 999 Cain or even Newt baby Momma Gingrich would have a better chance, but Mitt i have no plan Romney?, seriously……LOL
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
11:27 am
“Even the terrorist groups that are contributing to Romney because Obama had their leader killed.”
Bartender…I’ll have five of whatever he’s drinking.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
11:27 am
More dems by the day avoids Oblama. I just don’t get it I thought all dems loved him…
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/list-of-democrats-skipping-the-partys-national-convention-continues-to-grow/
Jay
June 27th, 2012
11:28 am
“And you do realize Obama is ordering the printing of money you fool…
And Woodstock Mike, you do realize that Obama has nothing to do with the money supply, which is controlled solely by the independent Federal Reserve?
In other words, be careful about calling someone else a fool lest you, well, you get the point.
Oscar
June 27th, 2012
11:28 am
Where was George W. Bush when the people of New Orleans were on the streets begging for help?
————
In all fairness, it was not W who built the city under sea level and neglected the levees. Could he have done better, we don’t know.
cranky old man
June 27th, 2012
11:28 am
“Isn’t that a major complaint conservatives have about lobbying by unions? That some union members might object to the way their dues are spent?”
“Your problem there is that you’re using logic instead of emotion. See, when you mention the word union, it’s all emotion for some conservatives. They lose any semblance of logic. Also, you can choose not to buy a company’s product, but you can’t choose to work at a job without collective bargaining or union representation. Unions force people to take those jobs so that they have more people paying dues and stuff….”
Hi, Brosephus,
Good point. However, I can’t really choose to refuse give my money to a business that would spend it on something I don’t like either, if I don’t have any way of knowing they are doing so. At least the union members know how their money is being spent. If they don’t like it, they can try to replace the union leaders with an election. Not likely, I know, but it is at least theoretically an option.
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
11:28 am
‘I read that one earlier this morning and was waiting on the F&F brayers to allow that one to be posted.’
I am amazed at how this issue metastasized once the political agenda was underway. Actually metastasized is a bad word…this is a purposeful misrepresentation for crass political gain.
Shameful…even more shameful that its proponents couch their superficial, mendacious intent with feigned concern for the agent that was murdered…
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
11:28 am
Ty – “”Homophobic” Californians cast the ballots…and a majority of ‘em too.”
sorry for the delay (damn work getting in the way today!!) – by a slim margin of >5% –
(side note: this is why I always think it’s funny that people think it’s a liberal state – other than the bay area and la, it really isn’t)
like I said – at least it was overturned.
USMC
June 27th, 2012
11:29 am
“Right, Joseph. Bush couldn’t be budged off his ranch for the much-worse Katrina, but was so essential in Gustav that he didn’t dare leave Washington”–JAY BOOKMAN
Here we go with the usual bluster from Jay:
“BLAME BUSH FOR KATRINA…..” great dishonest PR, but dishonest indeed. LOL!
Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people
June 27th, 2012
11:29 am
“However, one party wants to reinstitute limits if possible, and at least mandate full disclosure if limits are not politically or legally feasible.
The other party opposes limits and opposes letting the American people see where the campaign funds are coming from.”
Weird. I coulda sworn McCain Feingold had a republican sponsor….
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
11:29 am
“Right, Joseph. Bush couldn’t be budged off his ranch for the much-worse Katrina, but was so essential in Gustav that he didn’t dare leave Washington.”
come on Jay…you’re better than this, aren’t you? is this the Daily Kos?
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
June 27th, 2012
11:29 am
Obama is Swiftboating Romney in the swing states. Bain is becoming an albatross around his neck. Outsourcing (or offshoring) jobs is not the kind of jobs plan that appeals to voters.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
11:30 am
I suppose CNN’s Racist “BLACK IN AMERICA” is part of CNN’s “ongoing marketing campaign” to scare “Black People”???
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Joseph
June 27th, 2012
11:30 am
Jay:
What did you beloved Clintoon do at the 08′ dnc convention Jay. Or Carter for that matter. I’ll answer for you. Its of no concern for a past President. The question is why are dems fleeing Oblama? I just don’t get it. He’s their supreme leader…
ITS ALL BUSHIES FAULT
June 27th, 2012
11:30 am
Woodstock , really ? Who would even admit they live there.
josef
June 27th, 2012
11:30 am
Bush gets no off-the-rooftop free card on Katrina…he bungled that one big time..BIG time…
gm
June 27th, 2012
11:30 am
How about (Gekko) Willard vetoed a bill that would stop outsource jobs overseas in Mass, the Obama ads are working in the swing states, real Americans do not vote for scum like Willard who cares nothing about the middle class.
Of course in South Georgia, backwoods Georgians this means nothing, the bubbas vote agains their interest every time, this is why the state is ranked last in every catagory, go figure””’
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
11:31 am
The makers of Monopoly control the money supply. After all, it’s all been funny money since Reagan’s day. Isn’t that what Republican Libertarians such as Ron Paul believe.
Steve - USA ("None of the Above")
June 27th, 2012
11:31 am
“Where was George W. Bush when the people of New Orleans were on the streets begging for help?”
Most likely the same place Obama was when the people in the Gulf were begging him to get more involved in the BP oil spill, on the golf course.
Think how much better off this country would be if we banned golf.
btull27
June 27th, 2012
11:31 am
Holder now faces a vote by the full House of Representatives this week on the contempt motion Assuming a vote occurs, it will be the FIRST against an attorney general in U.S. history.
Check your facts. 1998 Janet Reno.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
11:31 am
Jm: McCain deserves some credit. But obviously Mitch McConnell, leader in the Senate (where McCain is also senator) disagrees.
USMC
June 27th, 2012
11:32 am
List of Democrats Skipping the Party’s National Convention Continues to Grow
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/list-of-democrats-skipping-the-partys-national-convention-continues-to-grow/
That seems a bit unusual, doesn’t it???
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
11:32 am
‘So I should read a blog to inform myself. Do you people just type without thinking first?’
I did not post a blog link. As I said, read the article I posted and it will help you continue appearing to be a superficial, bumper-sticker slogan partisan hack.
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
11:32 am
“Think how much better off this country would be if we banned golf.”
BLASPHEMY!
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
11:32 am
Taxpayer, No need to post any links. I am my own authority on my opinions and I know a good bit about groundwater contamination issues. I acknowledged the threat of groundwater contamination from fracking, but unlike our friends at Earthworks, I can keep it in perspective.
ITS ALL BUSHIES FAULT
June 27th, 2012
11:32 am
Only a peckerhead from WOODSTOCk would vote for someone that wears magical underwear…….lol
Adam
June 27th, 2012
11:33 am
Obama is Swiftboating Romney in the swing states.
Not really. Obama is telling the truth about what Bain and Romney did, not making up a story in order to make Romney look bad.
Jay
June 27th, 2012
11:33 am
USMC, it was an entirely accurate statement. It describes what Fox is doing and why. Same goes for Drudge.
For example, can you imagine what would have happened if the perpetrators in the bullying of that elderly bus monitor had been black? Rush, Drudge, Fox … oh the humanity. This blog would have been inundated with complaints blaming it all on Obama.
But since it was white kids? That’s just kids being kids.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
11:34 am
List of Democrats Skipping the Party’s National Convention Continues to Grow
OH
MY
GOD
What a revelation. Why, this clearly means conservatives are going to win!
Steve - USA ("None of the Above")
June 27th, 2012
11:34 am
I can’t speak or pretend to speak for everyone but when I talk to people they just don”t seem to care about Holder and “Fast & Furious”. Perhaps it is more accurate to say that they are worried about bigger problems.
Abrazos
June 27th, 2012
11:35 am
If money is free speech, then surely my guarantee of free speech includes the right to know the identity of corporations or individuals before I spend my (free speech) money on their goods or services.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
June 27th, 2012
11:35 am
ITS ALL BUSHIES FAULT
June 27th, 2012
11:30 am
I live there…but imagine my chagrin when I realized it wasn’t the right one…
Yep, I must be the only living Liberal in Woodstock…
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
11:35 am
T. L Time — “Republicans don’t generally use these tactics.”
Oh, really? What about all those GOP operatives who pretended to be ‘concerned citizens’ disrupting the FL recount in 2000?
“Nobody went to Obama’s bundler’s houses and threatened their families”
I can go on Free Republic once or twice a month and find threads in which conservative posters brag about figuring out where some liberal figure or individual or ‘troublemaker’ lives. Y’all do that all the time.
“or funded legions of attorneys to bribe local officials to pry open closed court documents, etc, etc,”
I’ll see your bet and raise you Orly Taitz and the Birther movement.
“etc. I certainly don’t want someone reading MY name off of a list of donors and showing up at MY house to yell epitaphs, threaten my family, and ruin my quality of life. No one deserves that”
Strange, then, how I’ve never heard any conservative poster here denounce local mule-f**ker Neal Horsley for his Nuremberg Files. And people DIED as a result of that.
“but Democrats think it is perfectly find to be obnoxious azzwholes in this way. It’s like bringing the occupy crowd to your front door.”
I think you are blissfully unaware of the sins of your own side in this regard.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
11:35 am
I am amazed at how this issue metastasized once the political agenda was underway.
I’m not. I see it as just another case where politicians get involved in stuff and screw it to high hell. Nowadays, you’re guilty until you can prove yourself innocent, and not one person has even came forth to acknowledge the person who actually submitted the “gun walking” idea is the very one who is the whistleblower.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
11:36 am
Abrazos: then surely my guarantee of free speech includes the right to know the identity of corporations or individuals before I spend my (free speech) money on their goods or services.
Roberts Court says “Shut up! No it doesn’t!”
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
11:36 am
“For example, can you imagine what would have happened if the perpetrators in the bullying of that elderly bus monitor had been black? Rush, Drudge, Fox … oh the humanity. This blog would have been inundated with complaints blaming it all on Obama.
But since it was white kids? That’s just kids being kids.”
okay, I take it back…this place has become “the Daily Kos”…Jay’s officially lost it.
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
11:36 am
godless,
In other words, you got nothing. I understand.
josef
June 27th, 2012
11:37 am
STEVE
“Most likely the same place Obama was when the people in the Gulf were begging him to get more involved in the BP oil spill, on the golf course”
********
Yep, that one, too. Went to New England to go to the beach on vacation and not to Biloxi, too. No free pass for him, either.
Jay
June 27th, 2012
11:37 am
Are you seriously trying to disagree with that statement, Ty?
Adam
June 27th, 2012
11:37 am
JHM: I can go on Free Republic once or twice a month and find threads in which conservative posters brag about figuring out where some liberal figure or individual or ‘troublemaker’ lives. Y’all do that all the time.
And sometimes it leads to…
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57364265/pols-cat-killed-liberal-scrawled-on-body/
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
11:37 am
Some Republicans stayed away from the Convention because they didn’t want to take votes away from McCain.
Many Democrats will stay away from the Convention because they can’t stand Obama.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
11:38 am
The dems know their nominee and have to campaign in their states.
drudgey fooled the cons again.
So easy.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
11:38 am
Woodstock , really ? Who would even admit they live there.
perhaps in hopes some might mistake it for the charming Hudson valley NY burg of the same name?
Jay
June 27th, 2012
11:38 am
Have you forgotten this little exercise in race-baiting, Ty?
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2009/09/15/from_kids_on_bus_to_kanye_west_race_rules_all_in_obama_s_america
Steve - USA ("None of the Above")
June 27th, 2012
11:39 am
Jay – “But since it was white kids? That’s just kids being kids.”
You monitor more news sources than I do Jay but I didn’t see anyone just say it was “kids being kids”. I didn’t see anyone who didn’t think it was a horrible incident. As a matter of fact that guy Eric Bolling(sp?) on Fox said those kids should be put in Juvenile Detention for two years which I thought was over the top.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
11:39 am
daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn, Jay … as the kids would say … SNAP
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
11:40 am
‘the “gun walking” idea is the very one who is the whistleblower.’
And once the justice dept learned what this dude did (w/o even approval from his supv) that was when they retracted the letter about ‘gun walking.’ Unbelievable.
Even more unbelievable that the House committee knows this and purposefully misrepresents. Shameless hacks…
Adam
June 27th, 2012
11:40 am
josef: when the people in the Gulf were begging him to get more involved in the BP oil spill
If memory serves, I heard more people telling him to stay away than anything else. The people complaining he wasn’t here on the ground were just butthurt that Bush got attacked by the media for not handling Katrina properly.
By the way, the media DEFINITELY criticized Obama for not taking a more active role. You know, that “liberal media” that’s in the tank for Obama. Regular people> Not so much.
Middle of the Road
June 27th, 2012
11:40 am
Congressmen skipping out of their party’s convention is nothing new. Heck, there are Republicans skipping out this year as well although not as many as the Democrats. This phenomenon is especially common during the reelection of a sitting president as there’s nothing much at stake. In 2004 eight House Republicans sat out their convention including four from Pennsylvania.
All this represents is that wanting to be reelected is a stronger motivator than showing support on the national stage.
Should be interesting to see if Ron Paul makes any significant noise in the GOP Convention. He’s amassed a big chunk of very loyal delegates.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
11:40 am
Strange, then, how I’ve never heard any conservative poster here denounce local mule-f**ker Neal Horsley for his Nuremberg Files. And people DIED as a result of that.
to say nothing of Bill O’Reilly, who repeatedly referred to Dr. George Tiller as “Tiller the Baby Killer” until it had the desired effect.
CJ
June 27th, 2012
11:40 am
Woodstock Mike @11:22, “It’s clear that although Obama has very good intentions he isn’t capable of making things happen in Washington.”
So, it’s President Obama’s fault that Republicans rejected (and filibustered) every idea that they had embraced up until 2009? Infrastructure spending, tax cuts, deficit commission, health insurance mandate, cap-and-trade, Dream Act, immigration reform, debt-ceiling increases, entitlement cuts (offered to end debt ceiling hostage crisis), and on and on and on.
President Obama was able to get legislation passed in the House and majority-support in the Senate. That used to be good enough. However, with Republicans blocking up-or-down votes on nearly every major piece of legislation that comes up in the Senate, including legislation they support, the notion that Obama isn’t capable of making things happen in Washington is nothing less than bizarre.
Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people
June 27th, 2012
11:40 am
“But since it was white kids? That’s just kids being kids.”
Source please.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
11:40 am
Scout: Many Democrats will stay away from the Convention because they can’t stand Obama.
Not intended to be factual.
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
11:41 am
Jay,
Yes, I’m strongly disagreeing with you and your hypothetical. Good grief. I disagree with you on a lot of issues, and I’m obviously not shy to express it when I do…I also commend you when I agree with you. But I used to think you were definitely partisan, but somewhat reasonable…today, I have serious doubts.
207 more days
June 27th, 2012
11:41 am
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
11:08 am
It’s kind of like the O/Bama/Holder transparency
ya know, FFS, is it really asking too much for you schmucks to address the freaking issue at hand?
Do you really think this pathetic “but you guys kinda do it too, if you squint and look sideways through a glass of your own urine!” response is gonna cut it?
SFD it seems you are the one not on subject……..TRANSPARENCY.
As I said, I am for transparency, but for both sides, it apears that you don’t think the O’Bama/Holder transparency is an issue, maybe you are the one with the urine problem
USMC
June 27th, 2012
11:41 am
“USMC, it was an entirely accurate statement. It describes what Fox is doing and why. Same goes for Drudge.”–JAY BOOKMAN
Jay, you obviously live in a “bubble” of your dishonest Leftwing/extremist political brainwash.
You really should get out and actually meet and get to know people outside of your narrow-minded existence. It will do you a “world” of good.
You really come off as ignorant with most of what you say and write. I have attended your “real state of the union” and was awe struck at the lack of diversity and self esteem in your group and how out-of-touch you and your crowd were.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
11:42 am
“Some Republicans stayed away from the Convention because they didn’t want to take votes away from McCain.
Many Democrats will stay away from the Convention because they can’t stand Obama.”
Sure…
Paulo977
June 27th, 2012
11:42 am
mm
You support the party that cares about the citizens of this country.
_____________________________________
Unfortunately, even the citizens, to a large extent, have been unable to figure it out ….sad situation
isn’t it ?
Peadawg
June 27th, 2012
11:42 am
Jay
June 27th, 2012
11:38 am
Wow……..
Adam
June 27th, 2012
11:43 am
USMC: Jay, you obviously live in a “bubble” of your dishonest Leftwing/extremist political brainwash.
Said the pot to the kettle.
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
11:43 am
The modern day GOP crawling with racists and bigots?
You’re kidding, right?
It is well known that they have vocifereously and actively expunged all of thoise historic elements of the conservative movement.
That there are literally dozens, if not hundreds, of examples or overt conservative racism in any given year is just a weird coincidence…
Jay
June 27th, 2012
11:43 am
Steve-USA, I agree.
The point is that nobody tried to make the argument that this is typical of white kids (”they’re all animals”) , or of white people, or that Mitt Romney somehow provoked it or tolerated it.
If it had been black kids, it would have been a very different story, with an entirely different story arc. And that is not even seriously debatable.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
11:43 am
Adam — “And sometimes it leads to…”
I suspect that killing a Democrat’s cat, scrawling “LIBERAL” on the corpse and then leaving it where said Democrat’s kids will be sure to find it is what passes for good citizenship among some segments of the conservative population.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
11:44 am
Other countries can bribe them for war.
Other countries can bribe them for more bailouts.
billionaires united is a horrible idea but here to stay.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
11:44 am
JHM: I suspect that killing a Democrat’s cat, scrawling “LIBERAL” on the corpse and then leaving it where said Democrat’s kids will be sure to find it is what passes for good citizenship among some segments of the conservative population.
Oh and it’s also obviously a crazy person and violence against liberals is an isolated incident.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
11:44 am
this place has become “the Daily Kos”…Jay’s officially lost it.
You know, I’ve occasionally checked in at the Orange Satan, and you know what?
It’s really not all that radical-left over there. Not my cuppa tea, but generally thoughtful, respectful discussion.
You compare it to something like FoxNation or, god forbid, the html horror that is Free Republic, and it’s a flippin’ League of Women Voters site.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
11:45 am
out of curiosity … I’d love a show of hands of those who have their BVDs in a wad over Obama’s ONE claim of privelege were equally poutraged over Bush’s SIX claims of privelege ???
ITS ALL BUSHIES FAULT
June 27th, 2012
11:45 am
Why would anyone vot e for a junk bond selling, job killing, outsourcing, fake tea bagging , vulture capitalist, draft dodging , flim flaming tool like Romney?
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
11:45 am
Source please.
Hysterical.
Coming from the guy who hasn’t sourced a post in years.
Even when challenged daily to do so.
Good times…
josef
June 27th, 2012
11:45 am
ADAM
Memory serves you wrong.
ITS ALL BUSHIES FAULT
June 27th, 2012
11:47 am
of mexican dissent. almost forgot
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
11:47 am
“the html horror that is Free Republic, and it’s a flippin’ League of Women Voters site”
women’s temperance union???
Jay
June 27th, 2012
11:47 am
Again, Ty, if you think I’m not being reasonable in that assertion, explain why. Take a look at the Rush clip, and then tell me that he and others wouldn’t have seized this situation in exactly the same fashion.
I have no doubt whatsoever about what would have happened.
For the record, Ty, I’m not accusing YOU of such a thing. But I do recall several of our regulars getting all bent out of shape about that previous bus incident, as if kids picking on other kids on the bus was some new phenomenon unique to the Obama era.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
11:47 am
USMC — “You really come off as ignorant with most of what you say and write.”
Senor Pot, I’d like to introduce you to Monsieur Kettle.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
11:47 am
the html horror that is Free Republic
You owe me a cup of coffee!!!
getalife
June 27th, 2012
11:47 am
Rangel won for the 22 time.
hatch beat the tea party.
You are on a losing streak con.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
11:47 am
it’s also obviously a crazy person and violence against liberals is an isolated incident.
yep. Those Knoxville UU church attendees, whose crime was to be seated while kids were performing a song? Just one lil’ ol’ weirdo who lost it. I’m sure all the right wing talking points, that could’ve been copied verbatim from the AJC blogs, were just a coincidence when they were scrawled on what he hoped would be his suicide note.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
11:48 am
Jam-”Hysterical. Coming from the guy who hasn’t sourced a post in years.”
and who changes the subject when someone cites a source that refutes him …
Jefferson
June 27th, 2012
11:49 am
What if gas was $3.91 instead of the $2.91 I paid this morning ?
Jefferson
June 27th, 2012
11:49 am
What if gas was $3.91 instead of the $2.91 I paid this morning ?
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
11:49 am
But I do recall several of our regulars getting all bent out of shape about that previous bus incident, as if kids picking on other kids on the bus was some new phenomenon unique to the Obama era.
Jay
You have to remember that they had just come down from the trees, so they may not have known any better back then in 2009.
Jay
June 27th, 2012
11:50 am
From the Limbaugh diatribe on the 2009 incident:
“Hey, look, folks, the white kid on that bus in Belleville, Illinois, he deserved to be beat up. You don’t know about this story? Oh, there’s video of this. The school bus filled with mostly black students beat up a white student a couple of times with all the black students cheering. Of course the white student on the bus deserved the beating. He was born a racist. That’s what Newsweek magazine told us in its most recent cover. It’s Obama’s America, is it not? Obama’s America, white kids getting beat up on school buses now. You put your kids on a school bus, you expect safety but in Obama’s America the white kids now get beat up with the black kids cheering, “Yay, right on, right on, right on, right on,” and, of course, everybody says the white kid deserved it, he was born a racist, he’s white. Newsweek magazine told us this.”
So go ahead, Ty. Make your case as to why my statement was unreasonable.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
11:50 am
What if gas was $3.91 instead of the $2.91 I paid this morning ?
What if Superman were a Nazi?
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/78/78jwhatif.phtml
josef
June 27th, 2012
11:51 am
I find it highly interesting that those who are calling the GOP and conservatives all types of bigots are often the ones who have no qualms at all about throwing out the most scurrilous of anti-Mormon comments, trailer trash, redneck, cracker, etc. I’m not trying to give the right a free pass, but at the same time, we might want to cast the mote from our own eye…
yuzeyurbrane
June 27th, 2012
11:51 am
Democracy is fast on the road to being dead in America. Thank you Justice Mussolini.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
11:52 am
josef
You’re a bigot!!
j/k
USMC
June 27th, 2012
11:52 am
“Said the pot to the kettle.”
adam, I actually ATTENDED Jay’s Leftwing political lecture (2 years in a row now) and listened to a differing point of view….
When was the last time time you sat through a Conservative lecture and listened to a differing point of view??? you aren’t sounding very “diverse” anymore , Adam.
That’s what I thought, sport.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
11:53 am
josef — ” I’m not trying to give the right a free pass, but at the same time, we might want to cast the mote from our own eye…”
And I might be inclined to listen to what you’re saying if you weren’t so quick to presume ill will on others’ part yourself from time to time.
Jay
June 27th, 2012
11:53 am
Agreed, Josef.
The “magic underwear” thing is a cheap attack on someone’s religion. I thought about banning the phrase, but then I’d also have to censor all the posts about Obama as a Muslim and the Rev. Wright, etc.
josef
June 27th, 2012
11:53 am
BROSEPHUS
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
June 27th, 2012
11:53 am
Well, I say keep the campaign donations secret. The reason is because people don’t want you to know who they voted for, so why should they let you know who they gave money to? Besides, if I give money to canadate that’s against Those People and the Gays and the hippies and the bums that won’t work, I don’t want to come home to the trailer to find the so-called Rev. Jesse Jackson or Al Sharptongue leading a mob of people to protest me.
I say let’s treat political offices kinda like blind auctions. You’ll get to know who bought a office after it’s been sold. Now I got to admit I might feel different if it was the librul Democrats that all those rich people were giving money to. But it ain’t, so I don’t.
Have a good Hump Day everybody.
USMC
June 27th, 2012
11:54 am
“Democracy is fast on the road to being dead in America. Thank you Comrade Obama.–yuzbeurban
There, you owe me one.
Jefferson
June 27th, 2012
11:55 am
I wish someone would give me a ben to vote for someone of their choice…I’d take their ben.
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
11:55 am
Jay,
Regarding media “race baiting”, it seems you’ve morphed into something you may abhor.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/03/21/trayvon-martin-guilty-of-being-17-and-black/
oh, and this was written before all the facts of this case have been put out…many of which still haven’t come out.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
11:56 am
“are often the ones who have no qualms at all about throwing out the most scurrilous of anti-Mormon comments”
hey, the only things that I have a problem with are: 1) the fact that they “converted” Jews after death and gave them a Mormon burial – that’s just so wrong on so many levels … and 2) the modern-day LDS doesn’t see blacks as equal (evidently, they can’t be ordained)
but trailer trash, etc – that’s just silly
getalife
June 27th, 2012
11:56 am
I would be a bigot against planet kolob if I could find it.
Jay
June 27th, 2012
11:56 am
And here’s Jon Stewart’s rebuttal to Drudge on that bus-fight incident:
http://www.mofopolitics.com/2009/09/16/video-jon-stewart-drudge-reports-coverage-of-white-boy-beaten-on-school-bus-story-race-baiting/
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
11:57 am
Jay
I wouldn’t ban that phrase or any of the other stuff. All it does is reveal the small-minded individuals here for who they truly are.
“Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”
– Thomas Jefferson as recounted by Eleanor Roosevelt
josef
June 27th, 2012
11:57 am
JOE
You’re not speaking to me, remember?
***********************
Is anybody else getting the posting too fast fatwah?
******************
IMAM
Agreed with that. It does give an insight into the mindset, though, and is a valuable tool for evaluating the merit of the comment…
Adam
June 27th, 2012
11:58 am
USMC: When was the last time time you sat through a Conservative lecture and listened to a differing point of view???
As in attended one? Or sat through the video? Because I don’t go TO lectures very often, unless it’s about a scientific topic. But I HAVE sat through many live video feeds of conservatives having their say.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
11:59 am
Josef — “You’re not speaking to me, remember?”
I need no reminder from you.
The fact that you seem to find it funny simply demonstrates what a good idea it was in the first place.
btull27
June 27th, 2012
12:01 pm
Again, Ty, if you think I’m not being reasonable in that assertion, explain why. Take a look at the Rush clip, and then tell me that he and others wouldn’t have seized this situation in exactly the same fashion. — Jay
So, you consider yourself to be like Rush? Nice comparison.
Jay
June 27th, 2012
12:01 pm
Are you attempting to change the topic, Ty?
Again, if you think I’m wrong about the bus-monitor story, even in light of what Drudge and Rush have done in the past, make that argument. You have yet to try.
As to my Trayvon piece, I stand by it fully. Zimmerman followed Trayvon out of suspicion about a black kid, and the case was initially handled far differently than it would have been had Trayvon been the one with the gun and Zimmerman the one lying there dead. All of that remains true.
At this point, if the system decides that Zimmerman should go free, I would have no problem with that. Justice will have been done, the case will have had a full investigation. That’s all I was interested in from the beginning.
Jay
June 27th, 2012
12:02 pm
Btull, you misinterpreted that post.
Perhaps I could have made it clearer by writing “… and then tell me that he and others wouldn’t have seized this situation in exactly the same fashion that they seized upon the bus-fight case.”.
josef
June 27th, 2012
12:02 pm
USinUK
Those are matters of theology and if you want to discuss that, fine, just don’t go throwing it around for no good reason just because you don’t like the candidate…and BTW Blacks have been ordained since 1978…Mormonism is an evolutionary sect…the thing on Jews has been repudiated by the Church hierachy.
And, no, the trailer trash thing is not just plain silly…it’s just “acceptable” like that one so many like to throw around “off the reservation.”
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
12:02 pm
Geez, not Zimmerman again…
Peadawg
June 27th, 2012
12:03 pm
“What if gas was $3.91 instead of the $2.91 I paid this morning ?
What if my aunt had a d*k? She’d be my uncle.
“if the system decides that Zimmerman should go free”
Zimmerman will probably go free on a murder charge. Involuntary manslaughter or something though, he’d be convicted.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
12:04 pm
josef – I don’t think it has anything to do with Mittens … just my issues with Mormonism
(if you’d like my issues with SoBap or Catholicism, I’m happy to list those, too)
USMC
June 27th, 2012
12:04 pm
“oh, and this was written before all the facts of this case have been put out…many of which still haven’t come out.”–Ty
Great point Ty. Jay doesn’t care about FACTS, though. He obviously spent a little time in Europe during his formidable years as a spoiled college kid and adopted the Hate/Blame America First and Socialist political faux-philosophy.
He is an intellectually dishonest partisan whose only goal is to spout the Party line of Racism/Affirmative Action, social justice, Open borders, and government handouts, change America etc..
Jay might romanticize about the idea of diversity, but he doesn’t come across as someone with a diverse group of peers/acquantances or experience in the real world. And it is painfully obvious.
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
12:05 pm
Tax: “In other words, you got nothing. I understand.”
Well what do you want? A link to USEPA Risk Reduction Standards for the “toxic” chemicals listed in your link? Do you want Type I, Type II, or Type III standards? Do you want a link to a basic text on hydrogeology? Do you want a link to the test data for a lot of water samples that don’t show any contamination? Do you need a link to a site where you can purchase software to do your own contaminant fate and transport modeling for VOCs in heterogenous confined and semi-confined aquifers? Or do you just read pseudo-scientific alarmist clap-trap like you get from Earthworks?
Adam
June 27th, 2012
12:05 pm
And, no, the trailer trash thing is not just plain silly…it’s just “acceptable” like that one so many like to throw around “off the reservation.”
Thank goodness someone mentioned that. I HATE that phrase.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
12:05 pm
The cons will turn on legalized corruption when Soros buys an election.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
12:07 pm
Zimmerman will probably go free on a murder charge.
I wouldn’t speak so fast on that. He’s likely to get hung by his own words. Discovery is allowing some details to come out, and his story of how things went down contradicts the physical evidence found by police. He’s got a fight on his hands to prove he’s not guilty.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
12:07 pm
You should read the drudge link comments on Rangel’s victory.
Nothing but racist con comments.
josef
June 27th, 2012
12:07 pm
IMAM
G-d! I love Jon Stewart!
Adam
June 27th, 2012
12:07 pm
USMC: He obviously spent a little time in Europe during his formidable years as a spoiled college kid and adopted the Hate/Blame America First and Socialist political faux-philosophy.
He is an intellectually dishonest partisan whose only goal is to spout the Party line of Racism/Affirmative Action, social justice, Open borders, and government handouts, change America etc..
See, this is why I think you live in a bubble dude. You’re just a heckler. Who cares if you attend and sit through lectures of people you disagree with if your basis for disagreement is made up bullsh*t?
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
12:08 pm
Josef, UnU – many months ago Paul (surprise, surprise) took me aside and said quite civilly, in essence, to “ix-nay the agic-may underpants business.” I didn’t need anything more to convince me that I was inadvertently sliming perfectly decent people I knew, personally, with a crack like that.
I reserve the right, however, to razz Peggy Noonan over the Jesus Dolphins.
USMC
June 27th, 2012
12:09 pm
“As in attended one? Or sat through the video? Because I don’t go TO lectures very often, unless it’s about a scientific topic. But I HAVE sat through many live video feeds of conservatives having their say.”–Adam
You should try and diversify a little Adam. Eventhough I detest the Leftwing Anti-American political propaganda that Jay and other Liberals lecture on, I think it is important to hear it and mix with different people. We might disagree politically, but we probably have more in common than not. It will definitely open your world perspective and ability to relate to people of different backgrounds, etc.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
12:09 pm
getalife — “Nothing but racist con comments.”
I’m sure no *actual* conservatives posted such a thing. It’s far more likely that liberal spinmeisters on George Soros’ payroll are actually masquerading as conservatives and posting such comments with the intent of damaging the good name and sterling reputation of the GOP faithful.
(laughing)
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
12:09 pm
“He obviously spent a little time in Europe during his formidable years as a spoiled college kid and adopted the Hate/Blame America First and Socialist political faux-philosophy.”
oooooooooooooo … Europe … booga-booga!!!
josef
June 27th, 2012
12:09 pm
USinUK
Best not to do it here, but you and I could probably have a grand time discussing the various and sundry points of theology in the world religions!
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
12:10 pm
I HATE that phrase.
I just don’t get it. A family member, as a newlywed, lived in a trailer for a time. as a kid I thought it was the coolest thing ever.
Still don’t see the shame in electing to live in such a place, as opposed to other affordable housing options.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
12:10 pm
stands, josef, USinUK: I always thought attacking Romney for his religion was dumb – why should I care what religion he is? He’s running for office, for pete’s sake (heh). The religion thing is something the righties have their heads exploding over all the time, not the rest of the country.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
12:10 pm
Joe,
They did not bother to hide their racism.
I had fun on that thread.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
12:11 pm
stands: I hate the “off the reservation” phrase. Trailer trash I think is a pretty low blow, and should not be uttered, but I do not have the same recoil when I hear it. Probably because I know people who call THEMSELVES that.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
12:12 pm
dB – 12:08 – and I’m right there with you on Our Lady of the Dolphins. oy.
Jay
June 27th, 2012
12:12 pm
I spent my senior year in high school in Europe, USMC, most of it in a military-run school on a U.S. military base.
And if you can call someone who worked and paid his own way through college, and who grew up as the oldest child of a career enlisted man, a “spoiled college kid,” then the best that can be said for that assertion is that it’s no more inaccurate and no less informed than most of the other things you post here.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
12:13 pm
Adam — “stands, josef, USinUK: I always thought attacking Romney for his religion was dumb – why should I care what religion he is?”
A candidate’s religion makes no nevermind to me, unless, of course, he or she insists on constantly *making* it one. A candidate who can’t stop talking about his or her religious beliefs and motivations is, IMO, a candidate who will attempt to impose them on his/her constitutents if they manage to get elected.
I do admit to being strongly biased against Scientologists, but IMO that’s not actually a religion anyhow.
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
12:13 pm
Jay, like the majority of Republicans here, ty does not debate.
He dances.
i.e. when shown incontrovertible proof of what the desperately does not wish to know, he dances off to another person,event, topic, etc…
Or just disappears until the smoke settles…
Tommy Maddox
June 27th, 2012
12:13 pm
I imagine that all this whining will reach epic proportion as we get closer to November.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
12:13 pm
You should read the drudge link comments on Rangel’s victory.
Why, when there’s a perfectly nice mug full of rusty, used razor blades I can swallow?
Ronnie Raygun
June 27th, 2012
12:13 pm
“Even the terrorist groups that are contributing to Romney because Obama had their leader killed.”
Ty Webb:”Bartender…I’ll have five of whatever he’s drinking”.
Please prove me wrong then. Prove that terrorist organizations and other foreigners are not contributing to Romney’s Super PACs I dare ya.
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
12:15 pm
I have no worries about the affect of Romney’s religion on his governing policy. His record in Mass illustrates that it is a non-issue.
I have serious concerns about the affect of right-wing influence peddlers on Romney’s governing policy.
USMC
June 27th, 2012
12:15 pm
“oooooooooooooo … Europe … booga-booga!!!’
OOOOHHHH, now USinuk is getting “sensitive” and considers herself “EUROpean”
(Actually, i am envious of you being living in EURope after three episodes of Zen, shot in Roma, I wouldn’t mind being USinIT!)
Florida Stand Your Ground Law
June 27th, 2012
12:15 pm
Zimmerman will probably go free on a murder charge.
________________
It is crazy that they are releasing so much evidence to the public. Both attorney’s seem as if they are trying to gather or persuade the public before they even step a foot into the courtroom. This case is too flawed and was handled wrong from the beginning.
Trolls Bane
June 27th, 2012
12:17 pm
Checkbook republic, goverment for sale to the highest bidder and for the benefit of Wall Street
josef
June 27th, 2012
12:18 pm
USMC
“Jay might romanticize about the idea of diversity, but he doesn’t come across as someone with a diverse group of peers/acquantances or experience in the real world. And it is painfully obvious.”
If you knew some of the people I know that he knows you wouldn’t say that!
****
SFD
Paul’s an all right fellow in my book….
*******
ADAM
That one does chap me, but then I have an agenda!
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
12:21 pm
Jay,
not changing the subject…just pointing out your inconsistency and hypocrisy. You clearly “race baited” the martin case. Now, I could pose a hypothetical, similar to the one you posed originally that I took issue with regarding the school bus bullying incident. Your headline, and opinion of the “Trayvon Martin” entry would no doubt have been different if the shooter was black and the person shot was a white-latino…as for the bullying incident I think “fox” has been fairly critical of the bullies. The question I pose to you is, what would your headline have been if the bullying victim(the bus monitor had been black? your conclusions would probably be the opposite of limbaugh’s, but cloaked in “race baiting-ness” just the same.
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
12:21 pm
josef @ 12:18
Maybe a little projection onto others from that particular blogger?
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
12:22 pm
T. Webb — “not changing the subject…just pointing out your inconsistency and hypocrisy. You clearly “race baited” the martin case.”
How, precisely, do you think Jay did that? What makes you think he was doing that?
USMC
June 27th, 2012
12:25 pm
“not changing the subject…just pointing out your inconsistency and hypocrisy. You clearly “race baited” the martin case…”–Ty
Ty you hit him right between the eyes. He clearly race-baited the Martin case.
And notice that Jay uses a comedian, John Horowitz Stewart for his news and justification…
–laughable!
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
12:26 pm
Jamvet,
why debate when you can just scream “racist”, “neocon”, or “fake conservative”..at the drop of a hat…I can only aspire to have your skills when it comes to debate.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
12:26 pm
ty webb
jay race baited? coming from the master baiter himself…..
(sorry, it was just such low hanging fruit)
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
12:26 pm
Bobby Zimmerman sings one for cousin George:
http://youtu.be/cqJJdiG61jo
A dad
June 27th, 2012
12:26 pm
Joe Hussein, Adam, etc. Since I work,I don’t have the luxury to constantly check up on blogsd to see what’s said, either in response to something I said or the general direction the blog has taken. As we all agree re full disclosure, let’s keep in mind the term money laundering, and that someone, either individual or corporation, undoubtedly has the resources to launder money through multiple levels to make any dubious connections disappear. Face it guys, we’ve lost our country a while back, and it’s only getting worse and worse.
Jamvet – your little snippet counted for zilch, as what I was saying was obviously over your head. or do you totally ignore things like firebombing abortion clinics, throwing blood on providers, etc. Yeah, we 1%’s are such cowards…. Still angry over being ousted under DADT I see.
USMC
June 27th, 2012
12:27 pm
“How, precisely, do you think Jay did that? What makes you think he was doing that?”
Get off the knob, Joe. I think Jay can defend himself. He’s a big boy.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
12:27 pm
So cons, are you okay with Soros donating a billion to the President?
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
12:27 pm
At this point, if the system decides that Zimmerman should go free, I would have no problem with that. Justice will have been done, the case will have had a full investigation. That’s all I was interested in from the beginning.
this.
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
12:27 pm
Granny,
sorry, I’ve got my hands full right now.
josef
June 27th, 2012
12:27 pm
TY
As for Jay and the Martin-Zimmerman one, I think he did a pretty good job of not getting caught up in the media hype while at the same time not “censoring” the goings on here on his front porch. That couldn’t have been easy for him…
A dad
June 27th, 2012
12:27 pm
Hey, has anyone seen/read Issa’s June 25th letter to the POTUS? Whoa indeed!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
12:28 pm
“CNN Sinks To 21-Year Primetime Ratings Low In Second Quarter”
Maybe we will see the death of a liberal news machine !
getalife
June 27th, 2012
12:28 pm
“Get off the knob, Joe”
What is the knob?
getalife
June 27th, 2012
12:29 pm
scout,
corporate news network.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
12:29 pm
Headline: “House Democrats break rank to back Holder contempt as vote looms”
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/27/house-democrat-breaks-ranks-to-back-holder-contempt-as-vote-looms/#ixzz1z0nf4S00
Jay
June 27th, 2012
12:30 pm
Ty, you continue to deflect.
You charged that my assertion about the bus monitor proved that I was unreasonable. Given the evidence that I have since provided, do you still believe that?
And if so, why? Instead of bringing in things that have nothing to do with the accuracy of my assertion, make your case for why I was wrong and unreasonable.
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
12:30 pm
ty, nice dance moves at 12:26!
Elaine from Seinfeld would be proud.
And per your own admission, why would you debate indeed.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
12:30 pm
ty,
Your hands full?
Hilarious.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
12:30 pm
Headline: “Moderate Dems Would Quietly Cheer Health Law’s Demise”
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/27/moderate-dems-would-quietly-cheer-health-laws-demise/#ixzz1z0nt0lC5
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
12:30 pm
ty
i disagree with you on a boat load of stuff….but i do applaud your sense of humor.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
June 27th, 2012
12:31 pm
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
12:10 pm
Stands,
Either do I. There was a time in my life when I lived in a box car converted into a two room “condo”. The first room had the kitchen and bath room. The second had the living/sleeping quarters. A Trailer would have been a couple of steps up. The only really good thing about the box car was that it was across the street from the old bowling alley in East Point. I was the night mechanic there and got my meals free.
carlosgvv
June 27th, 2012
12:31 pm
And now, our new Pledge of Allegiance:
I pledge allegiance to the flag
Of the Corporate States of America
And to the Corporations for which it stands
A divided Nation
Under Big Business
With huge Corporate profits for the few
(and little of nothing for the rest of you)
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
12:31 pm
So cons, are you okay with Soros donating a billion to the President?
I’d prefer he give it me, but if that’s what he wants to do with his money, fine by me.
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
12:31 pm
Josef,
yeah, he only “convicted” Zimmerman for killing someone who did nothing but “be black and 17″…so, yeah, he covered it pretty fairly…according to Al Sharpton.
RB from Gwinnett
June 27th, 2012
12:31 pm
Adam, how is that 6 month old survey coming along? When are you going to bless us with your made up BS findings?
Moderate Line
June 27th, 2012
12:32 pm
Devil’s Advocate
If you do not like a poltician who receives secret donations don’t vote for them. Obama had $25 billion in undisclosed donations in 2008.
If you are going to equate spending with winning elections I have trouble with the concept of forcing people to donate publically. After all people do not vote publically.
The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal
June 27th, 2012
12:32 pm
A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
12:32 pm
Jay,
your hypothetical has no “evidence”. It’s a hypothetical.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
12:32 pm
TY:
” ……………. make your case for why I was wrong and unreasonable.”
Don’t do it Ty !
I did on Jay’s gun control stat fabrications once and he is still upset with me ………….. !
St Simons - he-ne-ha
June 27th, 2012
12:32 pm
I take no offense with ‘off the reservation’
heheh
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
12:33 pm
“OOOOHHHH, now USinuk is getting “sensitive” and considers herself “EUROpean””
no, just find it funny how Europe is a specter of all that is wrong with the world …
as for Roma … aaaaaaaaaaaah, Italy!! despite all their problems (and they are legion), how I love that country!!
getalife
June 27th, 2012
12:33 pm
“With huge Corporate profits for the few
(and little of nothing for the rest of you)”
You get it but the cons do not.
What happens when they control all the wealth?
There is none for you cons.
You are self defeatists.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
12:33 pm
“And now, our new Pledge of Allegiance:
I pledge allegiance to the flag
Of the Corporate States of America
And to the Corporations for which it stands
A divided Nation
Under Big Business
With huge Corporate profits for the few
(and little of nothing for the rest of you)”
…………………. and the entire world trying to get here because they like what we have !
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
12:34 pm
Scout
NRA is putting pressure on several Dems to back the contempt charge, which for right or wrong, goes to the thought that this is really about gun control not the dead border agent.
I wish they would do the vote and be done with it.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
12:35 pm
scout,
No they don’t.
The MB President in Egypt wants a woman and a Christian as VP’s.
Jay
June 27th, 2012
12:36 pm
It is indeed a hypothetical, Ty. You charged that it was an unreasonable hypothetical.
Please explain. You’ve seen what Drudge and Rush did with less inflammatory material. Now explain why you think they would not have done the same or worse under my hypothetical.
I don’t think that’s an “unreasonable” request, Ty. I have made my case and introduced my evidence as to why my hypothetical was reasonable.
Your turn….
getalife
June 27th, 2012
12:37 pm
Both,
cnn is reporting that nra conspiracy.
I think the dems should walk out like the gop did.
Just for fair and balance.
Bob
June 27th, 2012
12:37 pm
GOP says: “They now say disclosure could be an enemy of free speech.”
Since when does free speech give you the right to essentially bribe our politicians in secret? Let me get this straight. I have no expectation of privacy when I walk down the street, go into a store, drive on the roads, but somehow disclosure of how much money, and for what reasons, I give money to a politician is against free speech? Is it now against free speech to have disclosure of an out-and-out bribe to a politician? Without disclosure we can’t enforce any laws against bribery and corruption. Without disclosure we will never know who a politician will be favoring when a law is passed.
If that flies we might as well rid ourselves of all anti-bribery laws since we can never enforce them and make bribery and corruption legal, since that will be legal by default. Then we can honestly call ourselves the Kleptocratic Republic of the United States.
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
12:37 pm
a dad,
Can you please link the Issa letter. I would like to read it side by side with the Fortune article posted on today (about three times) and see how Issa’s letter squares with the facts in the case.
Thanks!
josef
June 27th, 2012
12:37 pm
TY
I’ve steered clear of the Martin-Zimmerman one, but the point I was making in Jay’s favor was that given the tone and tenor of what was being said on both “sides” he could’ve played it like the rest of the media were and he didn’t. Thass all. I leave it to others to judge him on how he handled it when he DID speak to it. But I don’t think he “baited” it per se.
carlosgvv
June 27th, 2012
12:38 pm
Scout
Has it ever occured to you that, even if the “entire world is trying to get here”, that does not mean things are just peachy here. Furthermore, maybe you should check and see how many people are leaving America.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
12:38 pm
“President Obama — who analysts originally thought would be history’s first $1 billion presidential candidate — lowered that bar Tuesday, warning donors instead that he now expects to be outspent by the GOP this year.”
No wonder the libs. are upset about donations. If this headline was reversed, you wouldn’t hear a peep.
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
12:38 pm
godless,
What do I want?
I want to know why you have chosen to make your snide remarks to me after I posted a comment initially that you agreed with simply because I also posted a link that actually gives a good overview of the fracking process and the toxic chemicals used, etc. in response to claims by JohnnyReb and Jm that there was no proof that toxic chemicals were being introduced into groundwater as a result of fracking operations. I want to know why you let their comments slide even when you know better. You know, that sort of thing.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
12:38 pm
carlosgvv:
Hopefully, all are liberals !
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
12:39 pm
getalife
Several Dems will vote for contempt. It would be nice to know how many of them have had contact with the NRA in the last two weeks. In the end, they can vote how they wish, but it does beg the question
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
12:40 pm
A dad — “Joe Hussein, Adam, etc. Since I work,I don’t have the luxury to constantly check up on blogsd to see what’s said, either in response to something I said or the general direction the blog has taken. As we all agree re full disclosure, let’s keep in mind the term money laundering, and that someone, either individual or corporation, undoubtedly has the resources to launder money through multiple levels to make any dubious connections disappear.”
With all due respect, a great deal of time and effort is expended to keep that sort of thing from happening, and just this month, over a dozen large banks voluntarily settled with the US government over charges that they had in effect laundered money by processing transactions with countries on the FATF watch list. I know that Wells Fargo settled for quite a large sum. Here’s a DOJ press release about one of the settlements:
http://www.bis.doc.gov/news/2012/doj06122012.htm
josef
June 27th, 2012
12:41 pm
ST SIMON’S
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
12:41 pm
I wish they would do the vote and be done with it.
I wish Issa would go back to what he does best–car theft and arson.
A dad
June 27th, 2012
12:42 pm
Lord Help Us – unfortunately I don’y have a link, but rather an actual copy of the letter itself. Will try to figure out how to post it for all to read.
RB from Gwinnett
June 27th, 2012
12:42 pm
Jay, what keeps you from going back to Europe and enjoying that socialist utopia you and your fellow liberal create in your minds here every day? Perhaps the fear of it being the lie we keep telling you the evidence of actual European ruin proves it is? Don’t want to pay $1.83/litre for gas? $8€ big Mac meals don’t appeal to you? $250K€ apartment (800 sq ft) without AC doesn’t sound like utopia to you? Don’t want 3 generations living in the same house because nobody’s income can pay the rent?
Delta has several flights every day!
getalife
June 27th, 2012
12:42 pm
Bob,
They legalized unlimited corruption and I have been struggling labeling this new America.
I do think we need a name change because most Americans do not even know about billionaires united.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
12:43 pm
Several Dems will vote for contempt. It would be nice to know how many of them have had contact with the NRA in the last two weeks.
I’m sure all 535 Congrefscritters have been in some kind of contact with America’s favorite domestic terror outfit.
carlosgvv
June 27th, 2012
12:44 pm
Scout
Cluborlov – America the grim truth
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
12:44 pm
USMC — “Get off the knob, Joe.”
Grow up, little boy.
“I think Jay can defend himself. He’s a big boy.”
And *you’re* a big boy and are capable of speaking for yourself. Once again, how, precisely, do you think Jay did that? What makes you think he was doing that?
Perhaps you’ve forgotten than an accusation is not, in and of itself, evidence that someone did what they’re accused of doing.
carlosgvv
June 27th, 2012
12:44 pm
Scout
Cluborlov – America the grim truth
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
12:45 pm
Jay, what keeps you from going back to Europe
I think you have him confused with Kyle. Kyle’s the AJC’s token Belgian.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
12:45 pm
Both,
dems always stab a dem President in the back for reelections.
They don’t march lockstep like the gop did with w.
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
12:46 pm
‘Will try to figure out how to post it for all to read.’
I just googled and it seems to be a combination political hack job and an argument over the technicalities of executive privilege.
Please read the Fortune article when you have a moment. Would like to hear at least one ‘right-leaning’ person square these facts with the course this ’scandal’ has taken.
Jay
June 27th, 2012
12:47 pm
RB, you seem uncommonly interested in running me off or getting me fired.
One would almost think that you were worried.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
12:47 pm
RB — “Jay, what keeps you from going back to Europe and enjoying that socialist utopia you and your fellow liberal create in your minds here every day?”
How about the fact that we don’t do anything of the sort?
“Don’t want 3 generations living in the same house because nobody’s income can pay the rent?”
You’ve clearly never been to Hawaii. (laughing)
Doggone/GA
June 27th, 2012
12:48 pm
Jay – was “DNC” actually GLL trying to sneak back again?
Jay
June 27th, 2012
12:48 pm
“Don’t want 3 generations living in the same house because nobody’s income can pay the rent?”
Yeah, that never happens in America, right?
Jay
June 27th, 2012
12:49 pm
Right idea, wrong person, Dog. A previously banned poster, just not THAT one.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
12:50 pm
LHS,
It is playing politics.
The gop are mad at Holder for messing up their voter id cheating.
The guv of Penn. let the cat out of the bag when he guaranteed victory because of voter id.
A dad
June 27th, 2012
12:50 pm
Lord help Us – I googled “Issa letter to President” and a link via yahoo.com came up. Click on that and you’ll be able to see the letter in its entirety.
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
12:51 pm
No wonder the libs. are upset about donations. If this headline was reversed, you wouldn’t hear a peep.
About what. Transparency.
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
12:51 pm
‘It is playing politics’
The cynic in me thinks the Obama admin may be baiting Issa into shooting a watermelon in his backyard…
shame has no game
June 27th, 2012
12:52 pm
Jay, let your haters be your motivator!! If they do not like the blog or the topics, then do not blog. How simple was that?
Doggone/GA
June 27th, 2012
12:52 pm
Thanks Jay – I think that’s the FIRST time I’ve actually read a message that was removed quickly!
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
12:52 pm
$250K€ apartment (800 sq ft)
snort.
Few things are funnier than a dumb troll’s notion of the duress those poor Euros must experience, what with their mass transit, their guaranteed access to health care, their (generally) cleaner and safer cities, longer life expectancies, shorter work weeks, longer paid vacations…
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
12:52 pm
Another day of stumbling and bumbling for Jay Carney…. You gotta think he really hates his boss for putting him through this torment daily because of his failures…
Rightwing Troll
June 27th, 2012
12:53 pm
“Democrats “want to intimidate people into not giving to these conservative efforts,” said Republican strategist Karl Rove on Fox News. “I think it’s shameful.””
I wonder how Turd Blossom feels about “scorecards”?
A dad
June 27th, 2012
12:53 pm
Joe H – if the DOJ is as asttue with money laundering as it was with F&F, I’ll rest my case. re “all due respect”, with that said, we’re all on the same side re transparency. It’s just that I for one, am more skeptical where money in that amount is involved. Having been involved with our government in several ways over a number of years, I just don’t have what appears to be your faith in its abilty to be diligent.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
12:53 pm
Up to 3 dems now that will hold Holder in contempt….
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
12:54 pm
Tax: I want to know why you let their comments slide even when you know better. You know, that sort of thing.
Because they didn’t post any links for me to criticize.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
12:55 pm
joey,
Only three?
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
12:55 pm
I didn’t even get into the “3 generations in a house” bit, but really… remember when conservatives claimed to be about traditional family values?
I guess RB’s part of the new generation, who are all about kicking gran and gramps to the curb.
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
12:56 pm
‘Up to 3 dems now that will hold Holder in contempt….’
Are you aware of the facts of the case? Would love to see you post a summary of your perspective…
Matti
June 27th, 2012
12:56 pm
This Supreme Court may well be the catalyst for our next Civil War. No group of people will stand for a double standard forever. People born in America, cutting our teeth and growing up on the rhetoric of freedom and equality? Holding dear the (unsubstantiated) ideal that we ALL matter, and we all have the same rights to a fair chance as anyone else, regardless of the circumstances of our birth and family? Telling Americans to shut up and sit down quietly in the back WILL NOT END WELL.
It might be awhile, but most certainly: the countdown has begun.
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
12:56 pm
Jay,
I will concede that limbaugh has “race baited” past incidents…”drudge” I don’t agree with you, and I tried to watch the Stewart link, but couldn’t. “Fox”(as you originally put it) has been pretty critical of the bullies. You can certainly draw you own conclusion on what may or may not happen in hypothetical situations based on past observances. I assert that you and other media also “race bait” the other way, and I find you calling out certain other media outlets for doing what you do, to be comical and disingenuous. As to you being “unreasonable”, I wrote that as a result of reading both your “race baiting” comment and the ridiculous “Bush/Katrina” comment you made.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
12:58 pm
“Don’t want to pay $1.83/litre for gas?”
yep, I pay a lot for gas – but on the other hand, I haven’t had to fill up for 6 weeks because I take the train everyday.
“$8€ big Mac meals don’t appeal to you?”
on the other hand, we also get to eat food that’s grown a lot closer to home and that ISN’T genetically modified.
“$250K€ apartment (800 sq ft) without AC doesn’t sound like utopia to you?”
then, just like New York, LA, SF or any other major world city – don’t live in the city center.
“Don’t want 3 generations living in the same house because nobody’s income can pay the rent?”
As Jay said, you think this isn’t happening in the US??? (and, frankly, wasn’t the Waltons a shining example of Murican Fambly Values???)
shame has no game
June 27th, 2012
12:59 pm
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
12:56 pm
If your feelings are hurt, why are you still hear? Do you plan to continue to blog here daily?
shame has no game
June 27th, 2012
1:00 pm
why are you still hear?
should be
why are you still here?
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
1:01 pm
A dad — “with that said, we’re all on the same side re transparency. It’s just that I for one, am more skeptical where money in that amount is involved. Having been involved with our government in several ways over a number of years, I just don’t have what appears to be your faith in its abilty to be diligent.”
I do think we’re largely on the same side with respect to transparency, and that’s good.
With respect to having faith in the government, I adhere to President Reagan’s dictum with respect to strategic arms limitation. That dictum was “trust, but verify.” Government’s not perfect, and it’s going to f**k up sometimes. That said, we’re all part of it and we all have a stake in it. And frankly, I don’t want an unelected business (that I can’t affect) overriding my tiny personal stake in government (that I CAN affect).
I think we need more good-faith negotiation from both sides, and less sloganeering and grandstanding. We agree that the economy needs kick-starting and we agree that long-term, our debt is unsustainable. We differ on how to address those problems, but we OUGHT to be able to work it out like adults.
If you and I can come to common ground, then clearly our elected leaders should be expected to do no less.
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
1:01 pm
Because they didn’t post any links for me to criticize.
Touche. Although a critique consisting of only 5 ppm leaves room for criticism in and of itself.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
1:01 pm
“their guaranteed access to health care, their (generally) cleaner and safer cities, longer life expectancies, shorter work weeks, longer paid vacations”
welp, I don’t have the shorter work week (in fact, work the same hours now that I used to work when I lived in DC) – but I DO get 25 vacation days a year – and those don’t include sick days.
and, yes, the guaranteed access to health care is an amazing safety net – nice knowing that, if the mister or I should lose our jobs and be sick, we won’t lose our house.
Doggone/GA
June 27th, 2012
1:02 pm
“why are you still here?”
Yeah, we know. Most of us are mature enough to ignore typos that are easily figured out…unless they are just TOO MUCH FUN to ignore! (I’m still chuckling about Scout being the “lessor of 2 evils”)
Oscar
June 27th, 2012
1:02 pm
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
12:53 pm
Up to 3 dems now that will hold Holder in contempt
________
That is three too many.
Oscar
June 27th, 2012
1:03 pm
Doggone/GA
June 27th, 2012
1:02 pm
____
Could I get a copy of the lease agreement that set that up for my files. May need it sometime.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
1:04 pm
Ooooo ! Matti is getting bellicose.
I wonder if she has “fixed bayonets” ?
Jefferson
June 27th, 2012
1:04 pm
UK, you pay for your health care, you earned it. Most of the yahoos against health care think someone is getting off easier than me, childish thought patterns.
Doggone/GA
June 27th, 2012
1:05 pm
“Could I get a copy of the lease agreement that set that up for my files. May need it sometime”
I’m still trying to find out which 2 evils he has available for lease
RB from Gwinnett
June 27th, 2012
1:05 pm
I am worried Jay. I’m worried you and your minions will drive us into the same ditch people just like you drove Europe into. Somehow you all keep thinking we can have the socialist state Europe has without the consequences. We can’t and we won’t.
Btw, I didn’t see your reply yesterday. Should we be holding you to the standards of a journalist or not? Or do you want to keep riding the fence; calling yourself one without all those pesky expectations of objectivity and such?
barking frog
June 27th, 2012
1:05 pm
USinUK
“and, frankly, wasn’t the
Waltons a shining example of
Murican Fambly Values???)”
….
still are and now own a big
portion of the world.
shame has no game
June 27th, 2012
1:05 pm
Doggone/GA
June 27th, 2012
1:02 pm
Yeah, we know. Most of us are mature enough to ignore typos
______
Maybe you should have been my English professor!!
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
1:05 pm
getalife:
That’s 3 more than Oblama got for his atrocious healthcare bill that’s about to be struck down…
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
1:06 pm
on the other hand, we also get to eat food that’s grown a lot closer to home and that ISN’T genetically modified.
Which by the way takes all the fun out of partys and other gatherings when the conversations veer toward things like how you got those webbed toes or six fingers or unusual appendages and how Monsanto vehemently denies any knowledge of how those memos got out.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
1:06 pm
I don’t have the shorter work week
Yeah, actually, most all of the Euros I’ve worked with over the years put in pretty substantial hours, similar to mine and my colleagues’ stateside.
However, those hourly workers in, say, manufacturing do tend to negotiate better deals than ours do, on that score, and that’s kinda what I had in mind.
josef
June 27th, 2012
1:06 pm
DOGGONE
Love those typos myself…did you catch Both’s the other night when he referred to the “slime margin?” We both got a roll out of it…
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
1:06 pm
Any sensible person would certainly say its been a bad month for Oblama…
Jefferson
June 27th, 2012
1:07 pm
RB, someone will leave the road if you are in the ditch…better think good thoughts,
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
1:07 pm
RB — “Btw, I didn’t see your reply yesterday. Should we be holding you to the standards of a journalist or not? Or do you want to keep riding the fence; calling yourself one without all those pesky expectations of objectivity and such?”
Jay’s an *editorial* writer. Surely this has been explained to you before.
Mighty Righty
June 27th, 2012
1:08 pm
Just think of the reluctance of Republicans to divulge information they don’t deem anyone’s business as a form of “Executive Priviledge” similar to Obama’s claim of “Exectutive Priviledge” over information he had previously denied knowing. No difference. Just a question of whose Ox is..etc.
Steve
June 27th, 2012
1:08 pm
Anyone with half a brain can see that Obama continues to improve in the polls vs Mitten’s magic underpants.
Paul
June 27th, 2012
1:08 pm
A simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ question, just to save myself from the tedium of scanning half a dozen pages when the answer really isn’t in doubt.
Did anyone state a case justifying why megadonors’ names should remain anonymous?
Any one?
Matti
June 27th, 2012
1:08 pm
Scout,
You wish.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
1:08 pm
July will certainly not be any better because when the job numbers come out Jay and his ilk will be flooding the streets shedding tears doing damage control….
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
1:09 pm
Hey Joseph
Tell us what happens after the vote, will ya’?
ty webb
June 27th, 2012
1:09 pm
“if your feelings are hurt, why are you still hear? Do you plan to continue to blog here daily?”
what are these “feelings” you speak of?
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
1:09 pm
I am worried RB. I’m worried you and your braindead heroes will drive us over the same cliff that you did in September 2008. Somehow you all keep thinking we can have a facist/corporatist state without the consequences. We can’t and we won’t.
RB from Gwinnett
June 27th, 2012
1:09 pm
SFD. Your utopia is as close as the new terminal at HJ. When you find all that bs to be the lie it is, don’t come back.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
1:10 pm
P.S. to Matti:
We haven’t had our first “Civil War” yet.
It was the “War Between the United (oxymoron) States of America and the Confederate States of America”.
If you libs. decide to take up arms against us conservatives regardless of party, region or state affiliation then that would be a civil (probably uncivil) war ………………
Doggone/GA
June 27th, 2012
1:10 pm
Josef – I missed that one, but I can see the amusement factor was pretty high!
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
1:10 pm
“UK, you pay for your health care, you earned it. Most of the yahoos against health care think someone is getting off easier than me, childish thought patterns.”
meanwhile, that’s EXACTLY what’s happening now!! they’re paying for other people’s health care rather than supporting a means for everyone to contribute.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
1:10 pm
Jay’s an *editorial* writer. Surely this has been explained to you before.
That has no effect on him.
——————
Did anyone state a case justifying why megadonors’ names should remain anonymous?
Any one?
Other than the usual “they’ll key my car… threaten me” stuff, nope…
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
1:11 pm
Paul — “Did anyone state a case justifying why megadonors’ names should remain anonymous?
Any one?”
Because . . . because . . . because . . . because SHUT UP, that’s why.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
1:11 pm
Matti @ 1:08
“Dulce Bellum Inexpertis”
Paul
June 27th, 2012
1:12 pm
Steve
Do I detect an underwear fetish?
RB from Gwinnett
June 27th, 2012
1:12 pm
SFD, I’m not referring to taking parents in in lieu of a home. Educate yourself for a change.
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
1:13 pm
Did anyone state a case justifying why megadonors’ names should remain anonymous?
I do believe some were worried that the wealthiest would be boycotted and hence scared to send a servant outside to even shop for fresh fracking water, etc.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
1:13 pm
Did anyone state a case justifying why megadonors’ names should remain anonymous?
Any one?
As in, did someone from the hard right actually debate the topic at hand?
When they could be whining about fixing bayonets, or Obama’s allegedly bad month, or Jay’s alleged fealty to things Euroweenieish?
Are you serious?
Jay
June 27th, 2012
1:14 pm
RB, I responded to your “journalism” jibe almost immediately.
In short, you are trying to argue that opinion journalists shouldn’t have opinions. And that’s silly even by your standards.
USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout
June 27th, 2012
1:14 pm
“Euroweenieish”
mmmmmm … Euroweenies and mash with onion gravy ….
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
1:14 pm
Tax, When Earthworks calls 5 ppb benzene “toxic” it calls into credibility anything else they say. If I begin a post, “Obama is an America hating Muslim” would you give much credence to the rest of my post or assume that it is also bunk?
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
1:14 pm
Scout, nobody likes a traitor. Or a sore loser. (grin)
Paul
June 27th, 2012
1:15 pm
Brosephus
Thanks.
It appears the 1%ers really are cowards. Sad.
Joe Hussein Mama
Well, that’s worked since they were five, so you gotta stick with what works, right?
Matti
June 27th, 2012
1:15 pm
Scout: “If you libs. decide to take up arms against us conservatives regardless of party, region or state affiliation…”
Your grasp of the big picture is weak. Better stick to following orders from your superiors.
Steve
June 27th, 2012
1:15 pm
I’m not Mormon – they’re the ones who have special underwear
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
1:15 pm
Granny Godzilla – Union Thugette:
http://www.mittromney.com/issues/health-care
Jefferson
June 27th, 2012
1:17 pm
Go buy some gas JOSEPH, it will make YOU frown.
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
1:17 pm
godless,
earthworks simply took the EPA 5ppb upper limit and labeled it in a way that you disagree with. Got anything else.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
1:17 pm
You know, RB, now that I’ve educated myself, I am just horrified that I might have to spend more for one of those very delicious and so-good-for-you Big Mac Meals if we continue down the road of Jay and Obama’s socialism.
I think I’m ready to come over to your side. Super size me, baybee.
carlosgvv
June 27th, 2012
1:18 pm
RB from Gwinnett – 12:42
We liberals will stay here and work for change from within. Unlike you, we do not have a “cut and run” personality.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
1:19 pm
the new terminal at HJ.
ha ha ha. I forgot, RB, you’re the guy who’s convinced that uppity colored types done kept you down, am I right?
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
1:19 pm
Even a crazy lib admits that the dems skipping the convention is shunning Oblama…
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/06/27/Hilary-Rosen-Slams-McCaskill-For-Skipping-DNC-A-Diss-To-The-President
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
1:19 pm
Granny Godzilla – Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
1:09 pm
Hey Joseph
Tell us what happens after the vote, will ya’?
2nd Request
Paul
June 27th, 2012
1:20 pm
stands
“Are you serious?”
Well, I do hope.
Been here quite a while. I will go on record as saying a number of my views have evolved dramatically. In some cases, changed.
It’s what happens when long-held assumptions are examined relative to the current reality. That which held true 10 or 20 or 30 years ago is not necessarily true today. When questions are asked, no responses worth anything are offered, when data is examined, when rhetoric is examined relative to the record, minds change.
I keep hoping to find a kindred spirit.
Tundra Dude
June 27th, 2012
1:20 pm
inmate #0311/8541:
Your boy is getting creamed, by 15 points, in his home state, Mass.
Don’t think any prez candidate has ever won when losing his own state.
In all fairness, his real home is Cayman Islands,
(home is where the bank is)
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
1:21 pm
Granny Godzilla – Union Thugette:
Read the link I gave you…
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
1:21 pm
Joseph
From TPM
A top Democrat tasked with winning back the House of Representatives isn’t upset with vulnerable Democrats who have decided to skip the party’s national convention in Charlotte, N.C. – a growing list that includes several candidates DCCC Chairman Steve Israel is helping win election to the House in November. In fact, the chairman thinks it’s a great idea. “If they want to win an election, they need to be in their districts,” Israel said at a Reuters event in Washington Tuesday.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
1:22 pm
Paul
You already knew the answer, but I applaud your optimism at the idea that somebody will actually step forward to defend something Jay’s hashing out. I think they’re much better at deflection and stuff. Defense is not a strong suit for some posters here.
Paul
June 27th, 2012
1:22 pm
Steve
Ever thought how it would come across if, when Lieberman was running on the VP slot, he was referred to as “Mr. Magical Skullcap”?
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
1:22 pm
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
1:21 pm
Granny Godzilla – Union Thugette:
Read the link I gave you…
…..i did….
Granny Godzilla – Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
1:19 pm
Granny Godzilla – Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
1:09 pm
Hey Joseph
Tell us what happens after the vote, will ya’?
2nd Request
3rd Request
josef
June 27th, 2012
1:23 pm
USinUK
You got room for me over there in that tiny apartment without (need of) air conditioning? It’s supposed to be up to 103 here tomorrow…spare us a thought…
josef
June 27th, 2012
1:25 pm
PAUL
Nyanh…he’d be Beanie Boy…
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
1:27 pm
In all fairness, his real home is Cayman Islands,
(home is where the bank is)
Too funny.
Does anyone know if he is taking his “Every Millionaire Counts” tour there?
Paul
June 27th, 2012
1:27 pm
josef
Thbbppppttttttttttttttt!
Mighty Righty
June 27th, 2012
1:29 pm
The frustration exhibited here by Jay is that Obama’s well of corrupt donors has run dry. The DNC is short 26 million dollars to pay for their convention expense inspite of getting 50 million in taxpayer funds. The convention begins Labor Day and they have had four years to prepare, but like their treatment of the federal budget, they simply aren’t prepared. Then Obama himself now admits he will not achieve his campaign finance goals. Again no surprise. He can’t do a budget for the governent or even one for him self. The well is dry. His big contributors are tired of his begging. I heard one campaign advisor say that events that a month ago would raise ten million dollars are now raising $500,000. The enthusiasm is gone. Democrats are bailing out of the convention. No successes to run on. Friday’s big drive to improve standing among hispanics has not caused the hispanic approval needle to move even one point. However it may have caused a drop in his over all numbers. Nothing but bad news. Panic has set in. A loss yesterday in the Supreme Court and another looms tommorrow.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
1:30 pm
Matti:
See you on the field of battle !
JamVet:
It’s all whether you win or lose ………… had Washington, et al lost ……. they would have all been hanged as traitors ……………………
However, note that Jefferson Davis/Robert E. Lee, et al were not hung ………… and not even prosecuted. If you want to discuss that later tonight and the reason why just remind me.
Have to run …………. everyone be nice and NO name calling !
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
1:31 pm
T. Dude — “Your boy is getting creamed, by 15 points, in his home state, Mass.
Don’t think any prez candidate has ever won when losing his own state.”
If by “home state,” you mean ‘candidate’s declared state of residency at the time of the election,’ it has happened three times.
Nixon in 1968 (lost NY)
Wilson in 1916 (lost NJ)
Polk in 1844 (lost TN)
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
1:32 pm
Paul
If you get a chance, check out Fortune’s story on the Fast and the Furious investigation they did. They got a chance to look at documents first hand and even include a few in their story. It doesn’t have the same storyline as what’s been told thus far.
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/
There’s enough info in there to cast doubts on the intent of those who are seeking what they call an investigation into the whole ordeal.
josef
June 27th, 2012
1:33 pm
Lee/Davis not hung? They weren’t hanged, but you’d have to ask Gen. Cleburne or Judah P if they were hung or not…
And, yes, Scout, you’ve half-assed redeemed yourself with me by not falling prey to you hate monger peer’s attempts to rile…keep it up, Mec, you’re making progress, but I AM keeping an eye on you (and that pink flamingo tattoo!)
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
1:33 pm
Granny Godzilla – Union Thugette:
I realize libs are dense but really? Do you really think they would be skipping the party’s convention if the nominee wasn’t so inept???
Matti
June 27th, 2012
1:33 pm
Breakdown of the skip-the-convention decision:
Every four years, the level of electronic surveillance is much higher, and the expectation of privacy is much lower, than it was even four years prior. For folks who remember how unfettered these kind of celebratory functions used to be, a modern political convention would have to hold an excitement level on par with the game room at the local multiplex theater. Add to that the location: Charlotte, NC, and the traditional appeal of escaping one’s job and family for a few days of drinking and debauchery falls even further. (Not that there aren’t hookers and drag queens in Charlotte. There are! But not enough to make the lack of privacy and ensuing scandals worth it.)
Those of you who think the Dem convention skippers want to distance themselves from Obama have it backwards. Obama is their excuses for skipping, not the reason!
RB from Gwinnett
June 27th, 2012
1:33 pm
Where in the US constitution does it say anybody deserves healthcare as someone claimed USinUk deserves?
And I wouldn’t have as much issue with all this social crap if EVERYBODY was actually footing the bill, but thats not what’s going on here. You people are voting yourselves legalized theft of other peoples earnings and don’t even have the decency to thank them.
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
1:34 pm
had Washington, et al lost ……. they would have all been hanged as traitors.
By foreigners. Not by Americans.
You secessionists were the original American traitors.
But it’s all good. The right side prevailed!
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
1:34 pm
he’d be Beanie Boy…
I’m probably the only one here flashing back to the Fernwood 2Nite “Talk to a Jew” segment…
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
1:34 pm
Granny Godzilla – Union Thugette:
What vote do you keep referring to?
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
1:35 pm
it has happened three times.
Four, really… oh well, let’s not go there.
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
1:35 pm
“earthworks simply took the EPA 5ppb upper limit and labeled it in a way that you disagree with.”
That’s not what they did. They called a concentration of 5 ppb toxic. Not only would I disagree with that, but anyone who knows anything about the subject would also. It has the appearance of being an attempt to over state the threat of pollution from fracking.
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
1:36 pm
Where in the US constitution does it say anybody deserves education, roads, etc.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
1:36 pm
Where in the US constitution does it say anybody deserves healthcare
same place it says you can bust people for possessing stuff that grows in the ground, mannn…
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
1:37 pm
RB — “You people are voting yourselves legalized theft of other peoples earnings and don’t even have the decency to thank them.”
The next time you talk to Mobil or Sunoco, be sure to ask them when I’m going to get a thank-you card for all the years of subsidies my taxes have contributed to on their part.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
1:37 pm
A loss yesterday in the Supreme Court and another looms tommorrow.
Only at Jay’s can batting .750 be considered losing…
Oscar
June 27th, 2012
1:37 pm
I predict they will strike down three provision and uphold the other provision by a unanimous vote. — wait . . .
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
1:37 pm
Joseph
I will play your game…you want me to believe you are vacuus enough not to know the question is aboit the contempt of congress vote.
What happens after?
Paul
June 27th, 2012
1:38 pm
Brosephus
Thanks, I will.
Was listening to the news at lunchtime. Seems some are questioning Issa as to why he won’t call the head of ATF to testify. Maybe it has something to do with the fact he’s said he never briefed Holder on F&F. Also said Issa refuses to call anyone who was responsible for implementation, examining the controls and oversight and metrics they developed. I’m sure it has nothing to do with the fact those people would all be Bush officials.
Issa’s a zealot on a mission. Rationality is out the window.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
1:38 pm
Megan Kelly is dominating lib dummy Chris Hahn… LOL…
Oscar
June 27th, 2012
1:39 pm
Enter your comments hereWhere in the US constitution does it say anybody deserves healthcare
_____
I don’t believe it says anyone deserves anything. Better read it again. Talks about people having rights to certain things.
Jay
June 27th, 2012
1:41 pm
“And I wouldn’t have as much issue with all this social crap if EVERYBODY was actually footing the bill, but thats not what’s going on here.
Hmmm. So RB supports the ObamaCare mandate that everybody buy health insurance. Who knew?
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
1:41 pm
Granny Godzilla – Union Thugette:
OK… Then they will move forward with criminal charges… Or perhaps go to court to acquire the documents to get to the bottom of this cover up… The Terry family deserves answers!!
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
1:43 pm
The Terry family
…will be forgotten by conservatives, as was Robert Krentz’ family after they were no longer needed.
josef
June 27th, 2012
1:43 pm
SFD
I couldn’t get it on the link…but I do remember it!
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
1:44 pm
Paul
I asked the same thing about Issa’s inquest. I’m wondering why he’s so focused on Holder, when it was an ATF operation. Reading that article highlights the fact that AUSA’s wouldn’t prosecute the cases the ATF Agents were presenting for what they said was a lack of evidence or probable cause.
That article explains how they got the serial numbers of the guns used in the Terry shooting. You also get more insight into what was going on in the actual ATF office in Arizona. It’s worth the read, and it actually opened my eyes to information that I had not seen/heard before.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
1:45 pm
stands for decibels:
And after the election Obama will be forgotten the same way he forgot Wright, Ayers, and Jackson…
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
1:46 pm
but I do remember it!
yay!
I distinctly recall one of the phone-in questions was: “I want to know, why isn’t he wearin’ the beanie?”
weetamoe
June 27th, 2012
1:47 pm
Who are the *us* of whom you speak? What is that *torture group* of which you speak? What big big generalities you have, Granny!
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
1:48 pm
“We the people are voting ourselves legalized theft of other peoples earnings that were already stolen from we the people and they didn’t even have the decency to thank us.”
That you enjoy that they steal your money is OK by me.
Just get the hell out of the way when it comes to them taking mine.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 27th, 2012
1:48 pm
I am sure in Joseph’s world, Obama will be forgotten just like Carter….. oh wait…. who will they blame for Bush’s depression and Obama’s recovery of the economy, lol.
Mighty Righty
June 27th, 2012
1:49 pm
I saw the funniest bit on TV this morning. Apparently there was some kind of anti Carl Rove demonstration in Washington D.C. either yesterday or over the weekend. I can;t grasp the goal. No Republican would be stupid enough to demonstrate against David Axelrod. I mean, what in the H—could be accomplished? Anyway, a reporter asked the participants, “Who is Carl Rove?” Not a one knew who Carl Rove is! There were answers like, “he is a guy.” Another actually said he was running for president. I am not kidding! Most admitted they had no idea who he was. But the hemming and hawing and the looks on their faces was priceless. Now everyone of them was a Democrat. Everyone appeared to be of voting age. This is evidence of why it is possible for someone like Obama to be elected and possiblby reelected in spite of his demonstrated incompetence. Then it hit me. TV networks are constantly looking for new entertainment. So called realism programs are the rage. What could be more entertaining than a show where the host would ask Democrats simple questions and see if any of them could give an intelligent answer. It would be the funniest show on TV.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
1:50 pm
Joseph….
Who will go forward with criminal charges?
Oh, re not attending the convention….under some circumstances it makes perfect sense not to go.
Take Former President Bush….it makes loads of sense for him not to go.
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
1:51 pm
You guppies need to turn off daytime Tard TV.
No wonder you neoliberals are so screwed up…
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
1:53 pm
stands….and like Pat Tillmans family too….
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
1:53 pm
godless,
Take it up with the EPA and perhaps the AT(T is for Toxic)SDR, if you disagree with their determination of what defines a toxic concentration in drinking water. (Send me a copy of your analysis as well. I’d just love to read what you got beyond opinion.):
EPA has set 5 ppb as the maximum permissible level of benzene in drinking water. EPA has set a goal of 0 ppb for benzene in drinking water and in water such as rivers and lakes because benzene can cause leukemia. EPA estimates that 10 ppb benzene in drinking water that is consumed regularly or exposure to 0.4 ppb in air over a lifetime could cause a risk of one additional cancer case for every 100,000 exposed persons. EPA recommends 200 ppb as the maximum permissible level of benzene in water for short-term exposures (10 days) for children.
Paul
June 27th, 2012
1:54 pm
Brosephus
I shouldn’t, but I do feel a bit discomfited by Issa, as he’s from my hometown. It’s kinda like having Perry as your governor.
Issa’s a far cry from the last guy I remember from that discrict (although I was long gone by that race) Rep Ron Packard. Here’s a bit of trivia- Packard lost in the primary by less than 100 votes. He ran in the general as a – get this – write-in candidate and became the first write-in candidate to win as an independent by beating the Democratic and Republican on-ballot candidates. He was the third successful write-in and did in fact return to the Republican Party when he went to Congress.
Jack
June 27th, 2012
1:55 pm
I’ll disclose mine if you’ll disclose yours.
josef
June 27th, 2012
1:55 pm
SFD
One of the “best” fights I ever got into as a kid was when somebody called me “beanie boy”
As a teenager one of my best friends was Randy Martinez. He opened a can of whoop-ass on somebody who called him a “beaner.” He didn’t get it at first when I laughed and said, “funny, you don’t look Jewish.” Took a lil cross cultural ’splainin’
Paul
June 27th, 2012
1:56 pm
Mighty Righty
“Who is Carl Rove?” Not a one knew who Carl Rove is! ”
They were probably thinking of Karl Rove and so didn’t know who the questioner was talking about.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
1:56 pm
RB: Adam, how is that 6 month old survey coming along? When are you going to bless us with your made up BS findings?
I have become busy more recently, as you may note from my decreased amount of responses on the blog. Not that you’re checking up on me or anything
I’ll give you the study when I’m done. I’m sure it won’t be nearly the kind of level you might expect from an organization that can do stuff like this rather quickly, so you’re just going to have to be patient.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
1:57 pm
Righty — “So called realism programs are the rage. What could be more entertaining than a show where the host would ask Democrats simple questions and see if any of them could give an intelligent answer. It would be the funniest show on TV.”
Well, now you know how we feel every time *you* post something here. (laughing)
Paul
June 27th, 2012
1:57 pm
josef
As a southern California kid, thass funny!
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
1:58 pm
Paul @ 1:56
As prone as I am to typos and misspelling I shouldn’t be laughing, but that was too funny
hahahahaha
haaaaaaaaaa
Adam
June 27th, 2012
1:59 pm
A dad: Joe Hussein, Adam, etc. Since I work,I don’t have the luxury to constantly check up on blogsd to see what’s said
You may have noticed I too do not have that luxury. But my comments on wanting what I want out of campaign finance reform are not about any one particular poster. So if any offense was taken by my comments on the matter, none was intended.
Paul
June 27th, 2012
2:00 pm
BOTH suck
I like subtlety.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
2:01 pm
RB: Perhaps the fear of it being the lie we keep telling you the evidence of actual European ruin proves it is? Don’t want to pay $1.83/litre for gas? $8€ big Mac meals don’t appeal to you? $250K€ apartment (800 sq ft) without AC doesn’t sound like utopia to you?
When did the UK become “Europe”?
getalife
June 27th, 2012
2:01 pm
Soros can donate a billion.
You wanted cons and you will get it.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
2:02 pm
Key takeaway from Brosephus’ earlier link:
“Irony abounds when it comes to the Fast and Furious scandal. But the ultimate irony is this: Republicans who support the National Rifle Association and its attempts to weaken gun laws are lambasting ATF agents for not seizing enough weapons—ones that, in this case, prosecutors deemed to be legal.
Amazing how the supposed gun-grabbers of the Obama Administration weren’t grabbing ENOUGH guns for Congressional Republicans, and now Congressman Issa wants someone to burn for it.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
2:02 pm
RB: Where in the US constitution does it say anybody deserves healthcare as someone claimed USinUk deserves?
Where does it say that a mandate is forbidden? And if it DOES say that, how come the founding fathers themselves didn’t bring it up when they passed mandates under the first three Presidents?
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
2:02 pm
off topic
Has anyone seen ir(Rational) on lately? I do not think I have noticed him on for awhile now.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
2:03 pm
You people are voting yourselves legalized theft of other peoples earnings and don’t even have the decency to thank them.
On the contrary. I thank them very much. Just not with a reward of tax cuts and godhood.
Billybob
June 27th, 2012
2:03 pm
keep pushing the ‘republicans buying the election’ template jay…..people have had it with liberal journalists and opinion people like you who always blame your opponents like elementary school kids instead of standing up for the results of your beliefs……i know why, b/c liberalism, socialism and statism that has run our country since pelosi assumed power is a failure……enjoy the nov beatdown lib
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
2:03 pm
They were probably thinking of Karl Rove and so didn’t know who the questioner was talking about.
There’s probably a kickass Tsar/Czar joke in there for someone willing to do the work.
a can of whoop-ass on somebody who called him a “beaner.”
great yarn, josef.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
2:03 pm
They never envisioned a corporate coup.
They would start another revolution.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
2:04 pm
Has anyone seen ir(Rational) on lately? I do not think I have noticed him on for awhile now.
That’s a good point. He probably got busier. I think a lot of people have gotten busier lately. Well, those of us that work, anyway (ZING!
)
Jefferson
June 27th, 2012
2:04 pm
If you sell someone a gun and they rob a liquor store, its the seller’s fault. BS.
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
2:05 pm
‘From 2010, when Congress began investigating, to 2011, gun seizures by Group VII and the ATF’s three other groups in Phoenix dropped by more than 90%.’
If Issa’s stated intentions are true, his investigation has failed…Shameless…
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
2:05 pm
Paul: I shouldn’t, but I do feel a bit discomfited by Issa, as he’s from my hometown. It’s kinda like having Perry as your governor.
Those are two burdens that no sane person should have to bear.
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
2:06 pm
Paul
I offered Mighty Righty $1000.00 last night to back up a “fantasy island” assertion he made. He wouldn’t even reply back to me.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 27th, 2012
2:06 pm
The constant admission by GOPpers that their party leaders were so stupid to constantly propose a unconstitutional mandate like that done by Mitt has to make you wonder how deep the stupid goes.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
2:06 pm
They BOTH suck: *blink* Fantasy island?
getalife
June 27th, 2012
2:07 pm
bilbob,
Why do you run from the truth?
Soros donating a billion is okay with you?
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
2:10 pm
Granny Godzilla – Union Thugette:
Who will go forward with criminal charges?
Holder, Obama, where ever the evidence leads….
Oh, re not attending the convention….under some circumstances it makes perfect sense not to go.
Sure its does when you have an inept leader….
Take Former President Bush….it makes loads of sense for him not to go.
He may be there.. I don’t know… And I know you don’t.. But the simple fact is dems are skipping at an alarming rate…
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
2:10 pm
And as for overstating any concerns, godless, what do you know, earthworks just copied that statement that bothers you so much straight from this report that they linked to. Then again, you know how alarmist those danged environmental working groups can be with their presentations of data and facts and such. If only they would stick to their opinions!
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
2:10 pm
“keep pushing the ‘republicans buying the election’ template jay…..
peoplebillybobhavehas had it with liberal journalists and opinion people like you…”A little intellectual honesty and courage please…
getalife
June 27th, 2012
2:10 pm
“House Majority Leader Mike Turzai (R-Allegheny) suggested that the House’s end game in passing the Voter ID law was to benefit the GOP politically.”
My bad, it was not the guv.
This is what the Holder bs is all about.
Paul
June 27th, 2012
2:10 pm
stands
“great yarn, josef.”
I pass the subtelty crown to you for the rest of the day. LOL!
BOTH suck
Haven’t seen (ir)Rational, but there are plenty here working hard to make sure they live up to his name.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
2:12 pm
JHM
Lord Help Us beat me to the first posting of that link today, but as I told Paul, reading that gave me more insight into the actual ATF office than anything I’ve seen yet. The fact that Issa is so friggin’ focused on Holder without even nary a smidget of focus on the ATF or any of their personnel leads me to think that he’s out for a personal vendetta instead of actually conducting an investigation.
Not only that, but the actual “gun walking” operation was suggested and carried out by the whistleblower and was not a part of the Fast and Furious operation at all. To make things matter, even after suggesting and carrying out his operation, he failed to recover the guns.
There’s also a mention of the FBI being involved in the money used to purchase weapons, but I haven’t heard anybody from the FBI being called to the carpet either.
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
2:12 pm
“Holder, Obama, where ever the evidence leads….”
You mean the evidence that Issa himself said on Sunday that he does not have in terms of any cover ups, etc?
That evidence?
getalife
June 27th, 2012
2:12 pm
Many cons left this blog because they can’t lie here.
Paul
June 27th, 2012
2:13 pm
Brosephus
“Those are two burdens that no sane person should have to bear.”
Fortunately, I’m not sane or it would really bother me….
BOTH suck
Maybe he was holding out for more?
getalife
June 27th, 2012
2:14 pm
Without voter id, the gop knows they are going to lose so they tried to cheat.
Holder stopped their cheating so they are playing politics.
Paul
June 27th, 2012
2:15 pm
“Many cons left this blog because they can’t lie here.”
Take heart, getalife. They’ll return with new names and old arguments.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
2:15 pm
I have to say something about F&F.
The very first time I heard about it, there was zero doubt in my mind that the sole purpose of hyping this failed program was to eliminate from public discussion the existing phenomenon of US gun dealers supplying Mexican gangs. And on that score the right wing has already succeeded. they can crow (or not) about any dumb, essentially meaningless contempt finding they may vote on; they can argue with us about whether Issa is a crazy, or just craven.
But they won that battle already. Nobody is bothering to consider the role we play in Mexico’s horrific violence; we don’t even talk about the market we provide to fund all this stuff, except fleetingly. As is always the case, we’re down to arguing over which politician “won” or “lost” the week.
And on that cheery note, I think I’ll go eat a Glock…
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
2:15 pm
Taxpayer,
I have no argument with EPA’s levels. They are what they are and they’ve spent $billions upon $billion researching.
Just look up toxic. Toxic /= anything near carcinogenic level.
Toxic is poisonous. Bad sick right now. Carcinogenic is long term threat.
You could drink 5 ppb benzene your whole life and never know it, unless you were one of the 1/10,000 people unfortunate enough to develop cancer from it.
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
2:17 pm
Paul
He could be. I’m not saying that Holder is totally out of the woods or didn’t do anything, however when you get past the talking points and see that the NRA is now pressuring Dems to vote for contempt…… there certainly is politics being played by Issa.
I don’t have all the answers, but anyone can see that Issa is looking for a political win. Whether that is his main focus, I have no idea, but it is a focus
Towncrier
June 27th, 2012
2:17 pm
This blog, it seems to me, serves more as a forum for rants than anything else (not to say that constructive discussions do not occur). It is a microcosm of America of sorts – highly partisan and rigidly divided. I wonder if, at least on some issues, we can strive to come up with a solution for some of our nation’s ills.
Does anyone here NOT think that elected officials ought to be separated from money? I was watching 60 minutes recently and they aired the segment investigating how, until recently, senators and members of congress would use information they were privy to in order to make money on the stock market – in other words, they could legally practice insider trading. And we perhaps have all heard stories of perks received from lobbyists and the promise of making a lot of money as a lobbyist once out of office. Now, with the super PACs, many are alarmed that money is once more exerting undue influence upon government (by “buying” elections).
But I think the facts will show that almost everyone in DC and many in state government have dirtied their hands – Democrats and Republicans both. So what is the point of finger pointing over a “sin” of which both parties are guilty? A good question is this: can we come together as a grass roots organization on some issues to effect lasting and constructive change? For instance, while TBS and josef and I may disagree about a lot, we have general agreement about what to do about immigration reform. Can that not be true of other issues as well? Even with regard to gay marriage, can we not leave that to states to decide while at the same time at the federal level allow people to receive benefits if they are not “family” in a traditional sense (so long as they meet certain qualifications)?
It appears politicians in DC are more amenable to retaining and increasing power than they are to solving critical problems. We all lose if that scenario continues.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
2:17 pm
dB
There is that point, and I think you stated it rather well. I’d suggest you eat a Reuben as opposed to a Glock, but that’s just me.
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
2:17 pm
‘Not only that, but the actual “gun walking” operation was suggested and carried out by the whistleblower and was not a part of the Fast and Furious operation at all.’
Another, ‘not only that,’ but, if I wanted to…TODAY…I could go buy 20 guns, fill out the form, say on the form that they are for my own use, walk out of the store, sell/give/barter them to ANYONE, and, IF asked, simply say, ‘I changed my mind, I decided to get rid of them.’
‘Gun-walking’ is legal. The ATF operation had nothing to do with the agents death, what the buyer did in that case was, and is, legal…and happening today…
Adam
June 27th, 2012
2:17 pm
unless you were one of the 1/10,000 people unfortunate enough to develop cancer from it.
Or roughly 30,000 people from the general U.S. population.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
2:17 pm
Paul,
They are entertaining.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
2:20 pm
Towncrier
I say that DC is nothing but a reflection of us as a whole. They get away with what we allow them to get away with. If we were truly upset at the shenanigans and jackassery that was widespread there, we wouldn’t have historical re-election rates in the mid 80% range. If there is fault, it lies with us voters.
Mighty Righty
June 27th, 2012
2:20 pm
The goal of “fast and furious” per the ATF and the Justice Department was to find out how guns originating in the United States were ending up in the hands of Mexican Drug Cartels.
If that were the goal, then why wouldn’t there have been some method of tracing the guns? Why wasn’t the Mexican Government made aware of our program to sell thousands of guns to Mexican Drug Cealers? Why wasn’t there an effort to infiltrate the illegal gun dealers?
In my opinion,t he program was never designed to achieve the goals it claims were the reason for fast and furious. It appears to me the real purpose was to put guns in the hands of Mexican drug cartels and lay the blame on legal gun dealers so the administration could use the “planted” evidence to support their anti gun agenda. The very first response to the discovery of fast and furious was to claimit was illegal gun sales caused the death of Brian Terry. The very people who knew the truth made that claim. Further, we are to believe that members of the administrationincluding Hillary Clinton and the President himself were openly promoting llaws to restrict gun sales were merely a coincidence while the fast and furious fraud was being perpetrated by the administration. The administration and its controlled press are calling the operation “botched”, nothing more than a mistake. Baloney! They got caught, that wasn’t supposed to happen. That is their meaning of botched.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
2:21 pm
Towncrier: For instance, while TBS and josef and I may disagree about a lot, we have general agreement about what to do about immigration reform. Can that not be true of other issues as well?
Of course. But the problem is with how politicians in office play around, and how the media portrays it, leaving us all with the impression that nothing can ever get done, and that IF it does, it’s a rarity, and there are implications that everyone got everything they wanted out of every deal that actually comes to fruition. And that’s just nonsense.
If you really think about it, the people who are playing the sensationalism card are the Republicans. Some to look good, and some to try to force getting their way on issues by trying to change everyone’s mind. And they start with a Nixon guy’s GOP TV (known today as Fox News).
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
2:22 pm
Joseph
So you don’t know what will happen. mmmmm
Any idea what this will cost? As much as the WhiteWater dustup?
Inept leader? You mean like the guy who missed the whole
“OBL determined to attack” thing?
Now that’s inept!
.
godless heathen
my brother has that cancer related to benzene…..we’ve never had
any cancer in the family until this.
it’s very very nasty business.
no matter how long it takes for it to develop.
Oscar
June 27th, 2012
2:22 pm
Mondays decision on the immigration issue seemed to me to favor the federal government. Based on that, my predicition would be that the decision on Patient care tommow will also favor the federal government. Like on Monday, some of the provisions may be struck down, but most will be retained.
Overall the bill is unpopulat, but the parts about pre-existing conditions, life time caps, and preventing companines from dropping people from coverage when they become sick are extremely popular by the American public. Those will probably be kept.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
2:23 pm
The ATF operation had nothing to do with the agents death, what the buyer did in that case was, and is, legal…and happening today…
And if you notice that the NRA is putting pressure on pols to vote for contempt, you understand why it is legal and why people want it to remain legal regardless of the hoopla. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the motivation behind all of this.
First, it was Obama was going to take your guns away. After that never materialized, there had to be something nefarious to take Obama’s place. Fast and Furious just happened to be in the right place at the right time to be used for political purposes.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
2:24 pm
Looks like crier wants some hope and change.
When you hold your party accountable for their actions, it would be a good start.
.
Towncrier
June 27th, 2012
2:24 pm
“The fact that Issa is so friggin’ focused on Holder without even nary a smidget of focus on the ATF or any of their personnel leads me to think that he’s out for a personal vendetta instead of actually conducting an investigation.”
The main thing I am interested in learning through all of this, Brosephus, is if Holder and perhaps Obama knew and approved of the operation. Why? Because the DOJ under Holder rightly prosecuted gunwalking that occurred in a previous “operation” and to not do so now – for what ever reason – would be very, very wrong.
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
2:24 pm
TC
Good post. The “insider trading” issue that Congress elected to basically forgo is a travesty. They should all be ashamed.
I am on record stating that Obama is a hypocrite for going after Republicans about Super Pacs but now pushing people to donate to those that support him. Personally I think there is too much money involved in elections: corporations, individuals, unions, etc. I know that will not change, however it would be nice if all donations from whomever and where ever were made public.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
2:24 pm
I’d suggest you eat a Reuben as opposed to a Glock
Ok. It’s a far more pleasant way to go.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 27th, 2012
2:25 pm
Lots of them there Fox Nonsense watchers and fellow GOP nonsense repeaters posting their own uninformed opinion as if it meant it were facts. Course they seem to only demand facts and evidence when it suits them.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
2:25 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDuxWGHA-Z4
Oscar
June 27th, 2012
2:25 pm
Does anyone here NOT think that elected officials ought to be separated from money?
_____
How could we possibly separate elected officials from money. It takes money to run campaigns. Someone has to pay for that. Always has been true. People contribute to those candidates that think like they do.
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
2:25 pm
The very organization that is championing the absence of gun control and ALLOW gun walking is blaming the Obama administration for a Border Patrol death.
Mendacious, shameless, immoral…
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
2:26 pm
Why don’t Obama do something to help the folks of Colorado??? I guess he’s to busy campaigning….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCaGcyUd85M&feature=player_embedded
Doggone/GA
June 27th, 2012
2:26 pm
“People contribute to those candidates that think like they do”
Almost, but not quite: People contribute to those candidates that they think think like they do
carlosgvv
June 27th, 2012
2:27 pm
“many are alarmed that money is…exerting undue influence”
Money taking over American politics is like Joseph Stalin coming to power. It will last a long time and will be next to impossible to change.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
June 27th, 2012
2:27 pm
BRO,
I note 4 DEMS have now sided with GOP to push for contempt charge v Holder…
Also, since candidates with the most money win 94% of elections, of course the GOP needs to outspend DEMS…Didn’t Obama have more money than McCain? Too bad the 2 billion or so spent between these idiots can go to feed some of our many hungry folks instead of to misleading advertising and the like.
Oscar
June 27th, 2012
2:27 pm
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
2:25 pm
____
They want a small government and no government control until something bad happens, then they blame the government for not preventing it, or for not fixing it soon enough if it is a disaster.
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
Bro
BINGO………….. Best post of the day.
If many on the “right”, including the NRA, had not sold thhe “Obama will take you guns” story you might sound a little conspiratorial. However the story was sold and most with common sense knew it was BS. Now we have a double down via another angle. And by mere coincidence as we both have stated, the NRA is lobbying in the background on this issue.
Why would they be so concerned as to lobby / strong arm Dems in the House?
hmmmmmmmmmm
getalife
June 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
Lets recap American politics.
The gop started two occupations, collapsed the global economy and lost the election..
Then they fought against our recovery for this election and cry our President did not clean up their mess yet. They gave us our first downgrade and austerity that failed in Europe.
The gop lost a decade of job growth but blame our President.
In a sane America, the gop would be the whig party and history.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
June 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
Carlos
Couldn’t agree more…it’s basically a conflict of interest for our elected corrupted goons to work on behalf of us taxpayers…that’s why nothing gets done as the big money is on the outer most reaches of the left and right…the result is ineffective leadership and crap legislation such as Obamacare.
barking frog
June 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
Obama needs to exert more
control over the weather.
Towncrier
June 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
“If you really think about it, the people who are playing the sensationalism card are the Republicans. Some to look good, and some to try to force getting their way on issues by trying to change everyone’s mind.”
Sorry, Adam, I just see this statement as more partisan finger pointing. I have no illusions about the “goodness” of most conservative politicians. Perhaps you should invest some time investigating the “sins” of your own party (which are very many) to understand what I am driving at.
Oscar
June 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
Almost, but not quite: People contribute to those candidates that they think think like they do
__________
Reminds me of when Jimmy Carter ran for governor on the right of Sanders, and as a segregationist. Surprised a lot of people with his speech on the day he was inaugurated.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 27th, 2012
2:30 pm
Last month, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives released its most recent data showing that, in the last five years, more than 68,000 crime guns were recovered in Mexico and traced back to the United States. The guns that “walked” across the border under the “Fast and Furious” operation constitute less than 3% of those guns. Where is Speaker Boehner’s concern about the other 97%?
Not only has the Republican House majority done nothing to stem the trafficking of guns to Mexico; it has acted to block the modest efforts of the Obama Administration to address the problem. The House twice has voted to block continued implementation of the Administration’s regulatory requirement that multiple sales of semi-automatic rifles in the border states be promptly reported to ATF to give the law enforcers real-time notice of the suspicious gun sales that are feeding the cartels. Given that “Fast and Furious” has been rightly criticized for allowing guns to “walk” to Mexico, it seems odd that House Republicans would object to a regulation that is enabling ATF to better stop trafficked guns before they get to the border and to arrest the traffickers.
Doggone/GA
June 27th, 2012
2:30 pm
“then they blame the government for not preventing it, or for not fixing it soon enough if it is a disaster”
Sure, here’s how it works: “Government isn’t the solution, it’s the problem” so vote for us and we’ll MAKE SURE government can’t get anything done so we can bitch about the government not doing what we stopped it from doing.
Paul
June 27th, 2012
2:32 pm
Joseph
“Why don’t Obama do something to help the folks of Colorado???”
Now you’re calling for the Feds to take over local government roles and for the fed to bail out people who chose where to live and not carry adequate insurance?!!?
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
2:33 pm
Joseph
This guy could help in CO.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/the-daily-caller-digs-up-more-mitt-romney-dress-up-stories/
Doggone/GA
June 27th, 2012
2:34 pm
“Now you’re calling for the Feds to take over ”
And remember: the federal government can’t do ANYTHING right
Towncrier
June 27th, 2012
2:34 pm
BTW, Adam, I read Ungar’s blog and the almost 30 pages of comments in response to it. It was a good read. Thanks for the link.
Towncrier
June 27th, 2012
2:34 pm
BTW, Adam, I read Ungar’s blog and the almost 30 pages of comments in response to it. It was a good read. Thanks for the link.
Towncrier
June 27th, 2012
2:34 pm
BTW, Adam, I read Ungar’s blog and the almost 30 pages of comments in response to it. It was a good read. Thanks for the link.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
2:34 pm
Towncrier
Read that story at Fortune then. Based on their investigation, it does not appear that “Fast and Furious” was a gun walking program at all. They were tracking serial numbers of suspicious purchases. They were constantly rebuffed by AUSA’s when they presented information for possible prosecution.
By January 2010 the agents had identified 20 suspects who had paid some $350,000 in cash for more than 650 guns. According to Rep. Issa’s congressional committee, Group VII had enough evidence to make arrests and close the case then.
This was not the view of federal prosecutors. In a meeting on Jan. 5, 2010, Emory Hurley, the assistant U.S. Attorney in Phoenix overseeing the Fast and Furious case, told the agents they lacked probable cause for arrests, according to ATF records. Hurley’s judgment reflected accepted policy at the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Arizona. “[P]urchasing multiple long guns in Arizona is lawful,” Patrick Cunningham, the U.S. Attorney’s then–criminal chief in Arizona would later write. “Transferring them to another is lawful and even sale or barter of the guns to another is lawful unless the United States can prove by clear and convincing evidence that the firearm is intended to be used to commit a crime.” (Arizona federal prosecutors referred requests for comment to the Justice Department, which declined to make officials available. Hurley noted in an e-mail, “I am not able to comment on what I understand to be an ongoing investigation/prosecution. I am precluded by federal regulation, DOJ policy, the rules of professional conduct, and court order from talking with you about this matter.” Cunningham’s attorney also declined to comment.)
It was nearly impossible in Arizona to bring a case against a straw purchaser. The federal prosecutors there did not consider the purchase of a huge volume of guns, or their handoff to a third party, sufficient evidence to seize them. A buyer who certified that the guns were for himself, then handed them off minutes later, hadn’t necessarily lied and was free to change his mind. Even if a suspect bought 10 guns that were recovered days later at a Mexican crime scene, this didn’t mean the initial purchase had been illegal. To these prosecutors, the pattern proved little. Instead, agents needed to link specific evidence of intent to commit a crime to each gun they wanted to seize.
Fed Prosecutors don’t go to Eric Holder to get permission to prosecute cases. They make those judgment calls on their own. I don’t think Holder was aware of what was going on until it all hit the news. Even in my agency, Atlanta officers don’t know what type of operation that officers are doing on the southern border at Nogales, Arizona or Otay Mesa, California.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
2:35 pm
The American people failed to unite to get change after the collapse. They lost the class war and now corrupt congress are out of control.
The kicker is the cons were on the wrong side as usual.
They bowed down so don’t cry about corruption cons.
You look silly.
Doggone/GA
June 27th, 2012
2:35 pm
Good job TC! It’s hard enough to get something posted twice…three times is a real feat!
Towncrier
June 27th, 2012
2:35 pm
Wow…a triple post that should never happen unintentionally…I need to do some troubleshooting here…something is wrong with my PC.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
June 27th, 2012
2:36 pm
GETALIFE,
Your statements are not 100% accurate that the GOP is responsible for all current ills…President Trillions and the DEM controlled congress circa 2008 to 2010 will go down in history as the most prolific spendthrifts in history. Sure the spineless one was dealt a poor hand but instead of improving it he has misplayed it or arguable folded up in favor of the blame game…congress, Bush et al….Clearly he isn’t capable of playing such a hand and needs to go back to Chicago and organize more DEM voters..
Mama Says
June 27th, 2012
2:37 pm
You know guys I have always had a hard time understanding how the democrats make the argument that republicans are for the big guys while the dems are for the poor or regular guys.
I don’t get it because while big business does flourish under the republicans the poor and regular guys tend to fall in line behind the argument that more taxes hurt their pockets.
Dems seem to be telling us they are for the regular guy while they take from us to give it to others. spending more in general and taking more in taxes is not helping the regular guy. To me, a regular person, I need the money in my wallet however small it may be.
I see democrats yelling about big business not being “people “. Well that’s true but they are not sterile money pits from which the government can take. Each business is owned and ran by individual people who rely on that business.
How does it help me to have a democrat in office who wants my taxes, fees and or contribution to the government to go up via imposing more taxes and fees on the business ? We all know those taxes and fees get added onto the cost of the product.
carlosgvv
June 27th, 2012
2:38 pm
Granny
See if you can find a photo of Romney in drag. That might clinch the election for Obama, gay pride not withstanding.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
June 27th, 2012
2:38 pm
KEEPUPTHEGOODFIGHT,
Why have several DEMS today sided with GOP on contempt charges???
Are you suggesting that Holder et al have nothing to hide? If so, I guess you have read the subject documents? Apologize in advance if I misread your prior post…
getalife
June 27th, 2012
2:39 pm
stevie,
Yeah w was a disaster.
History will show that so stop crying.
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
2:41 pm
Tax: Where ever it came from, this statement in not true:
“The EPA has found benzene to be a known human carcinogen that is toxic in water at levels greater than five parts per billion.”
And persons in the biz will recognize it as not true and question the credibility of whomever stated it. Sounds good to the layman, but not representative of a serious scientific discussion.
Like the term “Theory of Evolution”. The layman latches onto the term “theory” and applies the layman’s definition to it. Scientists understand theory doesn’t mean what that layman thinks it means and has no problem believing that evolution is real.
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
2:41 pm
godless,
toxic concentrations are a function of exposure time as well as other variables. I am disturbed that you are not aware of this if you are in any way responsible for establishing industry guidelines for exposure to toxic compounds.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
2:42 pm
I note 4 DEMS have now sided with GOP to push for contempt charge v Holder…
Are they extremly liberal Dems who are safe in their districts or are they moderates who face challenges in re-election? Are they supported/influenced by the NRA or other organizations or do they face possible well funded opposition by those same groups? There’s always an angle to those things. Never just take things for face value. I don’t.
Boris Badnoff
June 27th, 2012
2:42 pm
On the subject of campaign contributions, please remember to send your wedding gifts to The Messiah. All those Tinsel Town thespians, ambulance chasing lawyers, and Do Gooders just aren’t raising the kind of cash needed for us to see and hear the constant message of Forward with Hope and Change. Heck Bookman threw in one of his used hairpieces. It’s the least you can do.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
June 27th, 2012
2:42 pm
GETALIFE,
History unfortunately will reflect President No Leadership as much, much worse than the poor presidency of W…Your guy has done nothing but make things worse…
getalife
June 27th, 2012
2:44 pm
dems don’t march lockstep like the gop.
You should know this fact by now.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
2:44 pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/27/us/house-democrats-up-for-re-election-feel-gun-lobby-pressure-on-contempt-vote.html?nl=todaysheadlines
Representative Jim Matheson of Utah, who is running for re-election in the most Republican district held by a Democrat, announced Tuesday that he would vote for contempt.
“Sadly, it seems that it will take holding the attorney general in contempt to communicate that evasiveness is unacceptable,” Mr. Matheson said in a statement. “It is a vote I will support.”
Adam
June 27th, 2012
2:44 pm
Towncrier: Sorry, Adam, I just see this statement as more partisan finger pointing. I have no illusions about the “goodness” of most conservative politicians. Perhaps you should invest some time investigating the “sins” of your own party (which are very many) to understand what I am driving at.
I never said that Democrats don’t also have sins, but I am pointing to the very lopsided nature of what’s going on right now. Perpetuating lies and sensationalism is happening far more from the GOP side these days. It’s not even close to being a “both sides” thing in any equitable sense.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
June 27th, 2012
2:45 pm
BRO,
I just can’t figure out the angle and only go by their comments….the NRA are a bunch of paranoid zagnuts….assualt rifles for all:-)
I do think peeling the layers back a bit on Holder is called for….same crap happened when Bushs’ guy terminated all those judges…something is burning in those files…
Towncrier
June 27th, 2012
2:45 pm
“Read that story at Fortune then. Based on their investigation, it does not appear that “Fast and Furious” was a gun walking program at all.”
I’ll read it, but I am obviously suspicious of single analyses in this politically charged environment. If Obama and Holder are innocent in the matter, that will be fine with me. But Holder contradicting himself in sworn testimony and Obama evoking Executive Privilege where none (to my eye) seems warranted does raise questions even for those without an axe to grind (which I don’t have in this matter).
getalife
June 27th, 2012
2:47 pm
stevie,
No, they will not ignore his accomplishments or the gop actions to stop him.
.
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
2:47 pm
History unfortunately will reflect President No Leadership as much, much worse than the poor presidency of W
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Hysterical.
Man, you Bushbots will say ANYTHING to protect George of the Bungle.
Barry is not even in his league!
And none of you will touch the fact that in virtually every reputable poll or survey ever taken, GWB is WAY DOWN AT THE BOTTOM.
Own it. You nutjobs elected him.
Twice.
And would so so again tomorrow…
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
June 27th, 2012
2:47 pm
BRO,
Three others have joined the cat from Utah…a lot of risk given the power BO and the DEM’s have to screw this guy next time around.
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
2:47 pm
And once again, godless,
EPA has set 5 ppb as the maximum permissible level of benzene in drinking water. EPA has set a goal of 0 ppb for benzene in drinking water and in water such as rivers and lakes because benzene can cause leukemia. EPA estimates that 10 ppb benzene in drinking water that is consumed regularly or exposure to 0.4 ppb in air over a lifetime could cause a risk of one additional cancer case for every 100,000 exposed persons. EPA recommends 200 ppb as the maximum permissible level of benzene in water for short-term exposures (10 days) for children.
you seem to take issue with the phrasing but the fact remains that the EPA has set the upper limit for the toxic substance, benzene, in drinking water at 5 ppb and that is what was conveyed in that testimony by the environmental working group. But don’t let that stop you from consuming whatever concentration that makes you feel good. It’s your choice.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
2:48 pm
Stevie Ray
“President Trillions and the DEM controlled congress circa 2008 to 2010″
Sorry but thats a big fat lie.
14 weeks.
And it’s a big fat lie that Romeny uses frequently.
If it’s that hard for you and he to tell the truth about the simple stuff how could anyone trust you on the big stuff?
Old Timer
June 27th, 2012
2:49 pm
This contempt of Congress move is a bunch of horse-hockey. Unless you’re interested in a shoot-out between all the police in the Department of Justice and the Marshal’s Service of the judiciary, there’s no way to enforce a citation. Congress does have the power to defund all or parts of the Justice Department, but there’s more to lose than to gain there. If this wasn’t an election year, you wouldn’t be hearing about a contempt citation.
And to sweeten the spectacle even further, Sen. Kyle of Arizona is already talking about impeaching Obama if the latter is reelected. Ain’t we lucky?
getalife
June 27th, 2012
2:49 pm
crier,
Your party is mad at Holder for stopping their voter id cheating.
It’s playing politics.
New to politics?
Towncrier
June 27th, 2012
2:50 pm
“I never said that Democrats don’t also have sins, but I am pointing to the very lopsided nature of what’s going on right now. Perpetuating lies and sensationalism is happening far more from the GOP side these days. It’s not even close to being a “both sides” thing in any equitable sense.”
I don’t agree with your assessment, Adam. Bush, whatever you might think of his policies, was vilified every bit as much as Obama by the left. And Clinton before him. And Reagan before him.
But I am NOT talking about politicians in my original post, Adam. I am talking about you and me and the electorate that places these people in office.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
June 27th, 2012
2:50 pm
JAMVET et al,
I’m not by any stretch an advocate of BUSH but this guy Barry’s record is an embarrassment….deficit to all new heights, crap healthcare bill, continued many policies of Bush’s despite campaign rhetoric to the contrary, failed stimulus and cronyism that cost us billions to mention a few of his “accomplishments”..
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
2:51 pm
something is burning in those files…
if I had to wager, it will be some mildly embarrassing internal email about how wussy Team Obama could be last year when it came to placating the ravenous needs of the gun lobby.
The possibility that it’s anything like the crazy “we gotta keep a lid on the truth about Operation RealMerkan Castration!” imaginings approaches one in infinity.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
2:53 pm
http://nraila.org/media/7733622/cc-letter-to-issa.pdf
There’s the letter that NRA-ILA Executive Director, Chris Cox sent to Rep. Issa. You’ll probably gloss over that last paragraph where they state this contempt vote will be used in their future candidate evaluations.
http://www.nraila.org/
Look under the news and issues column for today’s “news”….
June 27, 2012
Obama to shoot down armed pilots
June 27, 2012
Issa letter hammers Obama on operation ‘Fast and Furious’
June 27, 2012
Issa, White House clash over Fast and Furious executive privilege
June 27, 2012
Issa’s right: Tougher gun laws Fast and Furious goal
June 27, 2012
Holder in peril as Dems break ranks on contempt resolution
What we’re all witnessing is a well orchestrated witch hunt. The more I look, the less I actually see any investigation of the ATF and more of a concerted hunt with Holder as the chosen prey.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
2:53 pm
The gop refused to get the agents to testify under oath in the hearing.
Their leader too.
It is obvious unless you are inflicted with the mental defect of conservatism.
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
2:54 pm
toxic concentrations are a function of exposure time as well as other variables. I am disturbed that you are not aware of this if you are in any way responsible for establishing industry guidelines for exposure to toxic compounds.
Tax, I’m well aware of that and have been trying to explain it to you, but I guess I am not doing a very good job. 5 ppb benzene is not toxic. The levels that it is toxic at, even over long exposure times, are much higher.
I have to get back to calculating some risk reduction standards for various VOCs. I will be calculating standards based on multiple media and exposure pathways. My results will be reviewed and accepted by the EPA. Too bad I don’t know what I am doing (sarc).
Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people
June 27th, 2012
2:54 pm
Getalife 2:29
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
June 27th, 2012
2:57 pm
Granny,
Always appreciate your commentary. As i recall, the last 2 Bush years where marked by a DEM controlled congress….spending spree seemed to take severe downward spiral at that time….
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
2:57 pm
Three others have joined the cat from Utah…a lot of risk given the power BO and the DEM’s have to screw this guy next time around.
The Number 2 Dem in the House has already gone on record saying that he expects Democrats to do what they have to do in order to save their political ass. If I were a moderate Dem in a Republican district, I’d vote for contempt if I wanted to return to DC. This whole thing is nothing but political Kabuki theatre. Based on current laws, there was nothing that the ATF agents could do even after tracking those purchases when the AUSA’s wouldn’t prosecute. They even tried going to the State Attorney’s office with no luck.
I bet that if Holder stepped down, Issa wouldn’t say another damned thing about F&F at all.
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
3:00 pm
I’m not by any stretch an advocate of BUSH but I would never dare touch, in any real way, his irrefutably beyond catastrophic record of needless death and utter devastation. Not only would I not speak of it in any detail, I won’t even make mention of any of it.
Nor would I dare mention his insanely low, never before seen, “approval” (LOL) rating when he and the most incompetent VP in American history skedaddled from Washington.
Nor would I even breathe a breath about how a staggering 50% of the people polled as he left office (in disgrace), said he was the worst ever.
I guess with all of that, I really was a big Bush fan. And that is why I would have the temerity to write something as bizarre as I did about the middling, mediocre BHO…
G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)
June 27th, 2012
3:01 pm
Old Timer, “horse hockey?”
My dad used to say, “horse puckey.”
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
3:01 pm
‘I bet that if Holder stepped down, Issa wouldn’t say another damned thing about F&F at all.’
What steps has Issa’s committee recommended to reduce/eliminate straw purchases of guns?
Adam
June 27th, 2012
3:02 pm
Towncrier: I don’t agree with your assessment, Adam. Bush, whatever you might think of his policies, was vilified every bit as much as Obama by the left. And Clinton before him. And Reagan before him.
That’s not the indicator. The indicator is what the people DO in office. Newt was special during the Clinton years, and maybe some other single or handful of people had issues, but other than that most of the time there wasn’t bloc opposition to EVERYTHING just because the President at the time was for it. Now, today, Republicans just lockstep vote on damn near everything, sometimes even the most innocuous routine business.
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
3:04 pm
has anyone mentioned why it is that there is no Director of the ATF but, rather, still just an “Acting Director?”
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
3:04 pm
What steps has Issa’s committee recommended to reduce/eliminate straw purchases of guns?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk_-XWpUFmU&feature=fvwrel
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 27th, 2012
3:04 pm
I think F&F was part of Newt’s secret plan to arm the entire world. Well there, some “people have said it” so its now up to the GOPpers to prove it is not correct. Got evidence to prove that wrong?
stands for decibels
June 27th, 2012
3:05 pm
reduce/eliminate straw purchases of guns?
Reduce? Eliminate? what kinda commie talk is that.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
3:06 pm
dB
Political gamesmanship. The longer an agency goes without a director, the more it becomes ineffective. You can’t campaign against broken government if you don’t break it.
Lord Help Us
June 27th, 2012
3:08 pm
Brosephus @ 3:04:
boom…
Towncrier
June 27th, 2012
3:09 pm
“I say that DC is nothing but a reflection of us as a whole. They get away with what we allow them to get away with. If we were truly upset at the shenanigans and jackassery that was widespread there, we wouldn’t have historical re-election rates in the mid 80% range. If there is fault, it lies with us voters.”
And that is why, somehow, we really need a grass root movement comprised of people with divergent who nonetheless are in agreement on various issues and insist that candidates be committed to implementing changes along the lines we have proposed.
Mama Says
June 27th, 2012
3:11 pm
Getalife,
Why can’t holder just turn over all the documents ?
Isn’t it that simple ?
And how can anyone get Holder if he hasn’t done anything wrong ?
Adam
June 27th, 2012
3:16 pm
Why can’t holder just turn over all the documents ?
Some documents he can’t turn over because it would be illegal for him to do so.
As for “getting” Holder, holding a contempt VOTE doesn’t actually “get” him at all.
carlosgvv
June 27th, 2012
3:18 pm
Brosephus – 2:44
It’s no secret that some politicians will do anything to get elected and re-elected.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
3:19 pm
Stevie Ray
can you please document that severe downturn in spending…..
TaxPayer
June 27th, 2012
3:19 pm
godless,
your earlier posts conflict with your latest but I am glad to hear that you now understand better the definition of “toxic”. I’ll still sleep better at night knowing that the EPA is there to safeguard us from exposure to 10 ppb and in fact are pushing for 0 ppb, with good reason. And what do you think about those field measurements of benzene that were well in excess of any acceptable level of benzene in water except for perhaps by the Koch crooks and their supporters. You seem to be overtly fixated on this one number from the EPA. Is that by diversionary design. By the way, how did you come to settle on that handle of yours.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
3:21 pm
The documents are sealed by executive privilege.
The issue is over.
Get over it.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
3:22 pm
Towncrier
I think our population is too selfish to do something like that. That would require some amount of acquiescence of what we want as an individual in order to pursue what would be best for us all. Unless the group is in complete agreement on everything, I don’t see how it would function or even last for a significant time period.
Take this blog as an example of such. There are people here who differ in ideologies, yet agree on some topics. The fact that we know this still does not stop things from devolving into ideological pizzing contests here on a daily basis.
Mama Says
June 27th, 2012
3:23 pm
Well Adam if it is illegal to turn them over Obama would not have to hide them behind executive privlege would he ?
Not trying to be smart but if it’s illegal it’s illegal right ?
getalife
June 27th, 2012
3:25 pm
mama,
They passed a insider trading bill because the gop leader changed his investments after a meeting with treasury.
Lets get real on illegal.
Mr_B
June 27th, 2012
3:27 pm
Three others have joined the cat from Utah…a lot of risk given the power BO and the DEM’s have to screw this guy next time around.
Given that the contempt citation will die in the Senate anyway, there is little risk. Democrats don’t demand the kind of blind party loyalty characteristic of Republicans.
Cite me for contempt of Congress. I’ll proudly plead guilty as charged.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
3:29 pm
Mr. B,
Pardon him.
Mama Says
June 27th, 2012
3:30 pm
You know getalife
If a border agent is killed by American guns being given to the drug smugglers and you don’t want to know everything about a program like that you are the one that should get over it.
It’s stupid period.
You are arguing against our right to know not only how he got killed but who was stupid enough to give them the guns.
Seems to me Holder could release everything. He is not bound from releasing the Bush white house documents. If you are concerned about the witch hunt then release everyone’s part, from both administrations.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
3:31 pm
mama,
They made some changes after screwing up.
Your party is playing politics off his death.
Shame on you.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
3:31 pm
Well Adam if it is illegal to turn them over Obama would not have to hide them behind executive privlege would he ?
Not trying to be smart but if it’s illegal it’s illegal right ?
Different sets of documents were covered by executive privilege. The documents that were illegal to turn over were grand jury transcripts.
Mama Says
June 27th, 2012
3:32 pm
Come on getalife there were 27 senators who changed their portfolios they werent all republicans.
But I still don’t get your point.
So because politicians got insider info on trading we are forbidden from seeing who did what with gun smuggling ? Really ?
getalife
June 27th, 2012
3:33 pm
mama,
It is not illegal if they do it.
Your party proved nixon right.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:34 pm
I got a feeling that Jay is probably going for the global warming angle for tomorrows tripe.. Of course since its gonna be a bad day for Oblama…
Mama Says
June 27th, 2012
3:36 pm
Ok if I agree bush started it how am I playing politics ? I would think everyone would want to know who did what.
By the way if all the republicans are wanting the documents and all of the dems refuse to force holder to give them up why is it the dems are not playing politics ?
I also have trouble understanding your logic on the border agent.
If republicans want the entire story how are democrats in the right by refusing to give it.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
3:37 pm
President Obama is going to Colorado Friday .
After the sc rules yes on the bill and gop over reach playing politics with an agent’s death, it will be a good day for our President.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
3:37 pm
Honestly I can’t wait for tomorrow’s decision, which I think will be mandate overturned only, and then Obama will respond, probably in a usually brilliant way, and piss all you guys off that you didn’t think he would do what he did, or something. It’s like wanting to see someone’s next move in a high stakes game, because they’re so good at playing it.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:38 pm
What’s Barry and Withholder hiding….. Just release the docs and Republicans won’t have to have a contempt vote…..
Adam
June 27th, 2012
3:38 pm
I also have trouble understanding your logic on the border agent.
Likewise
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
3:39 pm
You are arguing against our right to know not only how he got killed but who was stupid enough to give them the guns.
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/
Ten days after the meeting with Hurley, a Saturday, Jaime Avila, a transient, admitted methamphetamine user, bought three WASR-10 rifles at the Lone Wolf Trading Company in Glendale, Ariz. The next day, a helpful Lone Wolf employee faxed Avila’s purchase form to ATF to flag the suspicious activity. It was the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday weekend, so the agents didn’t receive the fax until Tuesday, according to a contemporaneous case report. By that time, the legally purchased guns had been gone for three days. The agents had never seen the weapons and had no chance to seize them. But they entered the serial numbers into their gun database. Two of these were later recovered at Brian Terry’s murder scene.
….
By the end of July 2010, the Fast and Furious investigation was largely complete. The agents had sent prosecutors 20 names for immediate indictment, Jaime Avila’s among them. His purchase of the three WASR-10s were listed among his criminal acts. On Aug. 17, 2010, ATF agents met in Phoenix with prosecutors, including U.S. Attorney Dennis Burke. According to two people present, the ATF presented detailed evidence, including the fact that their suspects had purchased almost 2,000 guns, and pushed for indictments. A month later, on Sept. 17, an ATF team—this time including ATF director Kenneth Melson—met with prosecutors again and again pushed for action. The sides agreed to aim for indictments by October, according to one person in attendance.
But as weeks and then months passed, prosecutors did not issue indictments. The ATF agents grew increasingly concerned. By December, prosecutors had dropped Avila’s name from the indictment list for what they deemed a lack of evidence.
Only when Terry, the U.S. Border Patrol agent, was murdered in December 2010 did the prosecutors act. Voth’s agents arrested Avila within 24 hours of Terry’s death. On Jan. 19, 2011, a federal grand jury indicted him and 19 other suspects. (Avila has since pleaded guilty to dealing guns without a license).
Seems that the person responsible for giving them the guns plead guilty after being arrested. Had US attorneys been a bit more proactive in actually trying to prosecute straw purchases and such, maybe BP Agent Terry might still be patrolling Arizona today. We’ll never know. Funny that a pro-guns all the time lobby can weaken laws to let this happen, and people choose to focus on someone who’s actually trying to do something instead of looking to the true source of the problem which is the legislators themselves. It is possible to have sensible gun laws to combat crime without infringing on the rights of lawful bearers. However, any attempt at such is portrayed as “OMG THEY’RE TRYIN TO TAKE MY GUNS!!!!” hysteria instead of something sensible being accomplished.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:39 pm
Adam:
Oblama won’t say anything unless its later on in the afternoon when they get their message together and typed up on the teleprompter for him to read…
Mama Says
June 27th, 2012
3:41 pm
Getalife,
You are stuck on fighting aren’t you ?
I have agreed bush started it, said his documents should be looked at also and you hit me with insider trading and Nixon ?
I was 6 when Nixon was president and find it interesting that in your hard headed attempt at being partisan you don’t have a problem with our country giving guns to drug dealers.
Why is this not common sence for all of us ?
If holder did nothing wrong why are you guys so scared for him that you are insistent on keeping a stupid policy hidden ?
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:43 pm
getalife:
Of course he’s going to Colorado to campaign. He hasn’t talked to the Gov in 15 days about the catastrophic wildfires ripping through the state…
getalife
June 27th, 2012
3:43 pm
mama,
Why can’t you get over it?
Your party is playing politics with it silly.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:44 pm
Mama Says:
Bush didn’t start F & F… Thats a lie libs love to throw out there…
getalife
June 27th, 2012
3:44 pm
joey,
Stop lying con.
You bugging his phone con?
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
3:44 pm
Joseph are you an acolyte of the Rick Perry School of Global Cooling?
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:45 pm
Arizona has been left behind by the federal gubmint. Now Colorado..
http://nation.foxnews.com/white-house/2012/06/27/obama-hasnt-spoken-colorado-gov-15-days-despite-raging-wildfires
getalife
June 27th, 2012
3:45 pm
w did start the operation.
Fact.
Mama Says
June 27th, 2012
3:45 pm
Bro,
I don’t disagree with anything you said.
But wouldn’t the justice department be somewhat responsible for not indicting the cases they had enough info to indict on ?
Could that be why holder doesn’t want to turn over all the documents ?
Wouldn’t u like to see e mails on the subject at the prosecutorial level ?
Why did they wait ?
getalife
June 27th, 2012
3:46 pm
joey,
fox?
Hilarious.
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
3:46 pm
Looks like Obama might be throwing Withholder under the bus to keep incriminating documents under wraps until after the election. As attorney’s advise their clients if you have nothing to hide don’t hide it.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:48 pm
JamVet:
No I’m a person of reason and logic unlike libs. Logic would tell you that nature is constantly changing no matter what man does. We have had periods of extreme cooling along with extreme warming.
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
3:48 pm
BTW, Bro, don’t think that you rebutting – with actual verifiable, relevant information, data, facts, evidence and links – the Mindless Masters of Misinformation here, goes unnoticed.
Keep owning them and keep up the good work.
Reminds me of the old joke – How do you know when a Republican is lying? His lips are moving.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
3:48 pm
del,
Executive privilege.
The issue is over.
Get over it.
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
3:48 pm
“w did start the operation.”
On a much smaller scale and people weren’t getting killed.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:49 pm
getalife:
Watch the video Skippy…. I guess FOX can manipulate the idiocy of Jay Carney…
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:50 pm
GWB did not start F & F… Even Holder testified to that…
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
3:50 pm
getalife, get over it? It’s only the beginning.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
3:50 pm
No I’m a person of reason and logic unlike libs.
HA!
Good one. You almost had me there.
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
3:52 pm
your earlier posts conflict with your latest but I am glad to hear that you now understand better the definition of “toxic”. I’ll still sleep better at night knowing that the EPA is there to safeguard us from exposure to 10 ppb and in fact are pushing for 0 ppb, with good reason.
No conflict whatsoever. 5 ppb benzene in groundwater is not toxic, never has been, never will be.
And what do you think about those field measurements of benzene that were well in excess of ny acceptable level of benzene in water except for perhaps by the Koch crooks and their supporters.
I think it indicates that the water would not meet EPA Drinking Water Standards. Not enough information is given to determine if it is a direct result of fracking, but it may well be if the constituents used in nearby fracking are the same as those detected. If the company or companies involved are responsible then they should be held liable for cleaning up the water if the EPA and State agency determines that it is necessary, and there are plenty of current regulations in the Clean Water Act that will require that. But there may be other avenues of remediation and it might be determined that the aquifer is of little value and they will just let mother earth take care of it by natural processes through dispersion and biological degradation.
I have no problem holding the companies responsible and they should submit plans for review by the regulatory agencies before beginning. No one should go willy nilly squirting chemicals into the subsurface, but I also think that fracking can be done safely by taking reasonable precautions. And mistakes will be made by the producers and the regulators, but I don’t see the catastrophies occurring that the alarmists predict. Like all things risks should be weighed against rewards, and to say we accept 0 risk, is not a reasonable approach.
You seem to be overtly fixated on this one number from the EPA. Is that by diversionary design.
It was the number that your source incorrectly cited as toxic. It’s the drinking water standard for benzene and many other VOCs.
By the way, how did you come to settle on that handle of yours.
Started here in a discussion on religion and I just kept the handle. Keeps the lefties from characterizing all conservatives as religious nut-jobs.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:53 pm
F & F started in Oct 2009… Last I checked GWB wasn’t President then…
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
3:55 pm
Joseph, tell it to virtually all of the experts in the field of climatology.
You are immune to facts. So you make up your own. At all. Other than what tidbits you’ve gleaned from the science experts (LOL) at Fox News. You know nothing at all about the science. You think you and Rush Limbaugh are the experts instead of the actual experts.
Understand this clearly.
You neocons share your bizarre views and ideological non-science with NO other significant organization on the entire planet. Not even the Iranians! THAT is how twisted you Republicans have become.
Is that lost on you?
That you ask for the humiliation of that by bringing up the subject is to me, quite remarkable…
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
June 27th, 2012
3:55 pm
Well, I see the latest polls have Obama ahead of Romney in Florida, Pennsylvania, and Ohio, and they’re saying if it stays that way, Obama’s a cinch for reelection. The polls show Obama way ahead with women voters.
I just don’t get it. I would think women would go for Romney big time. After all, Romney favors a woman’s Right to Choose. No? Scratch that. Well, Romney does favor making insurance cos. cover birth control pills. No? Scratch that, then. And Romney’s all for women getting in the pulpit? No? Scratch another one. Anyway, I’m pretty sure Romney’s in favor of equal pay for women. No? Dang! Scratch another one.
Anyway, there must be some reason all those women don’t like Romney. If this keeps up the Kenyan Muslim Usurper is going to get another term. Better slap your little woman around a while to make sure she votes for Romney. I’ll take a pass on that. The missus outweights me by about 180 lbs.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
3:56 pm
“So the absence of a clear explanation for this unbelievably stupid gun program, that mirrored only a slightly less unbelievably stupid one that began during the Bush years, is evidence of a larger conspiracy to ban assault weapons?” – Jon Stewart
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
3:56 pm
He hasn’t talked to the Gov in 15 days about the catastrophic wildfires ripping through the state…
Will y’all pseudo-conservatives settle on one line of talking points and stick with it.
First, y’all get on Obama about getting into state and local stuff such as the Gates arrest and all. Now, you’re upset because he’s not getting involved in state stuff, nevermind the fact that there are substantial fed efforts at helping fight those fires. I swear, if y’all didn’t have something to complain about, you’d probably forget to breathe.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
3:56 pm
“Are you sure it’s not evidence that Obama’s just arming Mexico so they can lead him to retake the Alamo? Do you think it’s that? Maybe he’s using the weapons to weigh Mexico down, sinking it, thus creating acres of new beachfront property… to soil with an oil spill! Obama’s given no explanation that would make me believe otherwise, so I’m inclined to go with it.” – Jon Stewart
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
3:57 pm
Many on here who jumped all over (and rightfully so) the bloggers who seem try and convict Zimmerman, are some of the very one’s who have already convicted Holder and even Obama. Let’s not even talk about Issa stating that he had NOTHING in terms of evidence that says any sort of cover-up occurred.
A heaping of irony for your late lunch. Goes great with an apple.
But do carry on with your diatribes and rhetoric……
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:57 pm
JamVet:
What facts have you put forward to support your claim. Is it because the so called “experts” tell you its so.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
3:58 pm
“If that’s the case, though, what did y’all think of the Bush year shenanigans? Secret torture programs, wiretapping citizens without a warrant, putting signing statements onto laws that negated what the law actually said, stonewalling Congress, holding Americans without trial by calling them “enemy combatants”? What was your working theory on the tyranny and lawlessness of those secret programs?
6/26/2006:
STEVE DOOCY: Do you feel that it is in the public’s best interest to know when the government does secret stuff — that really protects you — you wanna know everything?
E.D. HILL: I don’t need to know about secret programs.
BRIAN KILMEADE: To a certain degree, you have to trust the people you elected when it comes to national security. If not, what is it saying about our leaders if we can’t even trust them to watch our back?
E.D. HILL: Yeah!
It says you didn’t vote for them!
“
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:59 pm
Brosephus™:
Our tax dollars go to fund FEMA for a reason….
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
3:59 pm
Operation Wide Receiver was initiated on Bush’s watch. Fast and Furious was initiated on Obama’s watch and was a much larger scale operation that fell apart.
AU Liberal in ATL
June 27th, 2012
3:59 pm
With their Citizens United ruling the Supreme Court has set us up for a plutocracy. Romney is clearly a plutocrat and it’s beyond me why any average citizen would even consider voting for that! My guess is that you wingnuts don’t even know what that means. Check your Funk and Wagnalls. Oh, your Funk and Wagnalls is a dictionary.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
3:59 pm
Many on here who jumped all over (and rightfully so) the bloggers who seem try and convict Zimmerman, are some of the very one’s who have already convicted Holder and even Obama
THIS
BTW, in case one were inclined to look, you would find that I repeatedly stated all I wanted was a trial, not that I had convicted him.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:59 pm
Brosephus™:
Its just another glaring example of Oblama being out of touch…
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
4:00 pm
Recon 0311 2533:
Operation Wide Receiver was initiated on Bush’s watch and ended on Bush’s watch.
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
4:02 pm
Adam
Sorry but you were not even part of my thought process one way or the other when posted @ 3:57
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
4:04 pm
Joseph, correct. Fast and Furious was initiated on Obama’s watch and was a much larger operation that all agree got out of control.
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
4:04 pm
Adam
So to your point, no need for me to research anything
But carry on if you like
Adam
June 27th, 2012
4:05 pm
They BOTH suck: I know, just covering my bases. By agreeing with you I realized one might try to jump on me for being the of the crowd that “already convicted him.” My wording didn’t make that clear.
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
4:08 pm
Adam
Cool
Not one who was doing the railing against those who had Zimmerman already convicted will admit they are doing the same on F&F…….
Can I get one of you to admit the irony (HYPOCRISY)?
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
4:09 pm
FROM THE FRONT PAGE OF THE NATIONAL REVIEW
Fast and Furious is a horrific scandal. The public deserves answers as to who devised the operation and what they hoped to accomplish. But the theory that Fast and Furious was devised to promote gun control goes far beyond the evidence, as Issa basically admitted to ABC this weekend, and it does not withstand scrutiny. The chairman should be ashamed to have dabbled in it, and should fully retract his initial comment, unless he has a considerable amount of evidence he has not shared with the public.
Who’s tossing who under what bus?
USMC
June 27th, 2012
4:10 pm
01-20-2013
HOPE FOR CHANGE
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
4:11 pm
Tax: I’ll still sleep better at night knowing that the EPA is there to safeguard us from exposure to 10 ppb and in fact are pushing for 0 ppb, with good reason.
Exposure is a key word here, Tax. You would not believe the amount of money spent by industry and local governments studying, assessing, and remediating groundwater that has virtually no chance of ever being consumed by anyone. Some of the regulatory groups have adopted some reasonable risk based standards and will give “no further action” to sites while other regulatory groups still require a total clean-up. Groundwater contaminated with benzene from a leaking gas tank is treated totally differently than groundwater contaminated with benzene from a landfill. But mention screwed up environmental regulations or unreasonable environmental regulations and you’ll have people throwing links to groups like Earthworks at you and accusing you of being in bed with the Koch Brothers and big industry.
You might want to look at your own County’s budget and see what they spend each year monitoring the old landfill or landfills that every town has. They pay to test for all kinds of chemicals in the water at least twice a year and there is usually not a drinking water well for miles around. And they will be testing this water long after you and I are gone. I think the local governments could find better use for this money that is wasted under the guise of “protecting the environment”, but in today’s world it’s political suicide for a politician to even suggest taking a hard look at our environmental regulations, unless it’s to tighten them.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
4:13 pm
Joseph
I generally scroll over your posts, but I’ll entertain dialogue with you for a post or two…
First, where do you think all those helicopters and planes dumping water and fire retardents on those fires come from? Colorado or the National Forestry Service? Second, were you even aware that the Air Force had specially outfitted C-130’s that could dump on fires too, and they are ALREADY in Colorado doing exactly that?
C’mon man, I know your google ain’t that partisaned that you think the federal government isn’t out there battling that fire. What are you expecting, Obama to hop into turnout gear and grab a hose himself?
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_20937378/colorado-wildfires-c-130-air-tankers-called-surge?source=rss
The battle to contain devastating wildfires across Colorado reached a new and more aggressive stage Monday as C-130 military tankers joined the fight to bombard the Waldo Canyon blaze with thousands of gallons of fire retardant.
Four of the C-130 aircraft, two from the 302nd Airlift Wing of the U.S. Air Force Reserve at Peterson Air Force Base and two from the 153rd Airlift Wing of the Wyoming Air National Guard in Cheyenne, took to the skies with 3,000 gallons of fire retardant in each of their bellies.
The planes can drop their huge payloads in less than five seconds and can be refilled in 15 minutes.
There are only eight such C-130s, plus one spare, in all of the United States that can be fitted with thespecial firefighting equipment, and half the fleet is now in Colorado.
Each plane costs $6,600 per flight hour, according to a U.S. Forest Service report.
That means that half the C-130’s capable of fighting fires are in Colorado alone, nevermind any other fires going on. Dude, I think you picked the wrong fire hydrant to take a whiz on this time.
I guess now you’ll be adding up the number of flights they take and complain that Obama’s spending us to death.
barking frog
June 27th, 2012
4:14 pm
Enter your comments here
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
4:14 pm
TBS,
What’s at issue is the administrations refusal to turn over several thousand documents associated with F&F. No ones being accused or convicted of anything but this refusal casts suspicion as to the administrations motive for refusing. Justifiable suspicion, no?
Tom Middleton
June 27th, 2012
4:15 pm
The antidote to anonymous donations, Jay, is the reasonable assumption that the candidates receiving them are working against our better interests.
When it comes to secret campaign donations AND candidates who refuse to be specific about what they are proposing, Mitt, we should assume a cowardice we don’t want in our representative offices, especially since we’ve no idea who or what they’re representing.
In other words, if we want honesty in our leadership – and I would think at this point We The People would want this first – then we should stop at nothing less than making them be honest, period!
USMC
June 27th, 2012
4:15 pm
Ahhh Yes, the age old wisdom of the Socialist/DemocRats…
Give the welfare crowd a card to purchase CIGARETTES.
Ingenious, “get ‘em hooked on free money/welfare and nicotine and they will never vote Republican again”. (sounds like LBJ)
Clerk loses job over stand
http://www.sentinelsource.com/news/local/clerk-loses-job-over-stand/article_87627ed5-5d4e-5ff0-a781-f14deb034771.html
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
4:17 pm
. Is it because the so called “experts” tell you its so.
NO SH*T, SHERLOCK!
That is the way the world works.
The Royal Academy of Sciences from ALL of the educated countries in the world, NASA, NOAA, National Geographic and on and on and on and on and on are in complete agreement.
The theory is valid.
Only you neocons think that you know more than them.
You don’t.
You are absurd with a capital A.
And invalid.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
4:18 pm
From 6/14/12
http://www.broomfieldenterprise.com/broomfield-news/ci_20860484/heavy-tanker-helping-fight-high-park-blaze-briefly?source=rss_viewed
The fleet of aircraft being used to battle the 52,000-acre High Park Fire near Fort Collins was one heavy tanker short this afternoon, when the U.S. Forest Service briefly grounded one plane after flames shot out of its engine when the pilot started it.
The tanker’s carburetor apparently became flooded with fuel that caught fire when the engine started, according to U.S. Forest Service spokesman Steve Segin. The plane, among five heavy tankers using the Rocky Mountain Metropolitan Airport’s air tanker base in Broomfield as home base, was briefly grounded as a precaution, but is back at work battling one of the largest wildfires in Colorado history, Segin said.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
4:18 pm
USMC: Did you actually read that article you posted?
Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people
June 27th, 2012
4:24 pm
I bet jay has a hard time sleeping tonight
So much for him to opine on tomorrow
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
4:26 pm
Recon
As I have stated several times, I have not indicted or exonerated anyone in the F&F operation. When looking at all the background politics being played with the NRA, I do get dubious as to the motives, just like you are with Holder.
Time will tell. Holder may get thrown under the bus (as you say), but if you are waiting for a bombshell I wouldn’t place any bets in Vegas.
Go look up the NRA lobbying (strong arming) to get Dems to vote for contempt. Why would they need to be involved? Maybe another take on “Obama’s going to take your guns” bull$hit that they sold the “right” before and after he was 1st elected? I still have mine. Actually purchased another pistol in March: Sig P229. Damn it shoots good.
DC is politics, so I’m sure Holder is playing as well, but it is funny that people think Issa is just looking to get to the “Bottom of F&F” and politics in an election has never crossed his mind.
USMC
June 27th, 2012
4:30 pm
CNN Sinks To 21-Year Primetime Ratings
http://www.deadline.com/2012/06/cnn-sinks-to-21-year-primetime-ratings-low-in-second-quarter/
After years of intellectually dishonest reporting of the news and selling out to the Leftwing/Extremist ideology, the chickens have finally come home to roost over at CNN.
I wonder what this means for the future of race baiting shows like “Black in America” etc.???
(I think Soledad’s Affirmative Action card is about to expire)
How about the novel idea of “reporting the news” in an unbiased manner:-)
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
4:31 pm
JamVet:
“had Washington, et al lost ……. they would have all been hanged as traitors.
By foreigners. Not by Americans.”
Disagree ……………… Washington, et al as British subjects and citizens would have been hung by the British government. There would have been “no” Americans.
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
4:43 pm
TBS,
Of course politics is in play. Both parties engage in it and when there’s blood in the water as there is now the party on offense Republican or Democrat is going to turn up the heat as far as they can. I don’t think you can blame the NRA protecting gun owner rights is what they do. Sometimes correctly and sometimes incorrectly and they mistrust Holder for good reason. IMO Holder was clearly stonewalling and now Obama himself falls under suspicion for asserting executive privledge. I’m not predicting any bombshell but I will predict this will be another campaign problem for Obama’s reelection team unless the documents are turned over and everything is clean. Should that happen it would backfire on Issa and the Republicans. At this late hour it doesn’t appear those documents will be turned over.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
4:50 pm
USMC — “(I think Soledad’s Affirmative Action card is about to expire)”
You’re still fuming from her busting Brownie out on national TV right after Katrina, I see.
Michael
June 27th, 2012
4:52 pm
USMC. Read the report on the ratings. If they got more Idiots like Beck. Hannity and O’Reilly they could get idiots like yourself tuning in. I bet “there is no hope that you will ever change.” Narrow minded people rarely do.
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
4:53 pm
Recon
Yes it will be a campaign issue. No different than Dems going after Bush for real and perceived BS.
Mighty Righty
June 27th, 2012
5:06 pm
Brosephus-I know this is not your version but one you are merely passing on. It does raise several questions.
Ten days after the meeting with Hurley, a Saturday, Jaime Avila, a transient, admitted methamphetamine user, bought three WASR-10 rifles at the Lone Wolf Trading Company in Glendale, Ariz. The next day, a helpful Lone Wolf employee faxed Avila’s purchase form to ATF to flag the suspicious activity. It was the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday weekend, so the agents didn’t receive the fax until Tuesday, according to a contemporaneous case report. By that time, the legally purchased guns had been gone for three days. The agents had never seen the weapons and had no chance to seize them. But they entered the serial numbers into their gun database. Two of these were later recovered at Brian Terry’s murder scene.
(The implication above is that the murder weapons were legally purchased and were therefore outside of the gunwalking fast and furious program. However subsequent actions by ATF as metioned below contradict the seemingly innocence of the above act.
By the end of July 2010, the Fast and Furious investigation was largely complete. The agents had sent prosecutors 20 names for immediate indictment, Jaime Avila’s among them. His purchase of the three WASR-10s were listed among his criminal acts. On Aug. 17, 2010, ATF agents met in Phoenix with prosecutors, including U.S. Attorney Dennis Burke. According to two people present, the ATF presented detailed evidence, including the fact that their suspects had purchased almost 2,000 guns, and pushed for indictments. (Strange that US Attorney wants to indict 20 people who purchsaed 2000 guns which were later determined to be part of fast and furious.)
A month later, on Sept. 17, an ATF team—this time including ATF director Kenneth Melson—met with prosecutors again and again pushed for action. The sides agreed to aim for indictments by October, according to one person in attendance. (Aha! Now US Attorneys are stalling. At who’s direction? They work for Department of Justice.)
But as weeks and then months passed, prosecutors did not issue indictments. The ATF agents grew increasingly concerned. By December, prosecutors had dropped Avila’s name from the indictment list for what they deemed a lack of evidence. (More stalling by Justice)
Only when Terry, the U.S. Border Patrol agent, was murdered in December 2010 did the prosecutors act. Voth’s agents arrested Avila within 24 hours of Terry’s death. On Jan. 19, 2011, a federal grand jury indicted him and 19 other suspects. (Avila has since pleaded guilty to dealing guns without a license).
Seems that the person responsible for giving them the guns plead guilty after being arrested. Had US attorneys been a bit more proactive in actually trying to prosecute straw purchases and such, maybe BP Agent Terry might still be patrolling Arizona today. We’ll never know.
My conclusion is that increasing gun laws would not have guaranteed action. Law without enforcement iseaningless. With all of theconfusion described above Issa not Justice should investigate. Congress should give immunity to all involved and compel their testimony including Holders. Something is fishy.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
5:20 pm
Righty — “My conclusion is that increasing gun laws would not have guaranteed action. Law without enforcement iseaningless. With all of theconfusion described above Issa not Justice should investigate. Congress should give immunity to all involved and compel their testimony including Holders. Something is fishy.”
While I am not 100% in agreement with you, this is one of the most reasonable things I have ever heard you say.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
5:38 pm
My conclusion is that increasing gun laws would not have guaranteed action. Law without enforcement iseaningless.
That’s true. However, toothless laws leads to toothless enforcement. You’ll never know what kind of action will come from things if you don’t legislate it. Do you not think that law enforcement authorities would not viggorously go after criminals that out-man and usually out gun them if they had effective laws they could enforce against them?
I’ll agree with you in that something is fishy. I really thought this was your standard political whizzing contest until the NRA started their pressure push in this whole thing. I would love for nothing more than ALL truths to come forward, including the zeal for going after Holder personally and not the ATF Agents and/or US prosecutors in Arizona as well.