GOP: Massive campaign donations should be secret
“WASHINGTON — During their long campaign to loosen rules on campaign money, conservatives argued that there was a simpler way to prevent corruption: transparency. Get rid of limits on contributions and spending, they said, but make sure voters know where the money is coming from.
Today, with those fundraising restrictions largely removed, many conservatives have changed their tune. They now say disclosure could be an enemy of free speech.
High-profile donors could face bullying and harassment from liberals out to “muzzle” their opponents, Sen. Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said in a recent speech.
Corporations could be subject to boycotts and pickets, warned the Wall Street Journal editorial page this spring.
Democrats “want to intimidate people into not giving to these conservative efforts,” said Republican strategist Karl Rove on Fox News. “I think it’s shameful.”
The Times’ story goes on to document a wide-ranging effort by conservative groups to undermine, dismantle and evade laws intended to force disclosure of who is giving how much money to who. They are also aggressively abusing a loophole in regulations that allow nonprofit groups to collect hundreds of millions of dollars in anonymous donations — under the guise that they are social-welfare organizations — and use that anonymous money to buy campaign ads.
The Federal Election Commission, which has the legal authority and even obligation to intervene, has been rendered incapable of doing so. In an all-too-familiar pattern, the commission’s three Republican members are blocking its three Democratic members from taking action to force disclosure that the law clearly requires. (See Van Hollen v. FEC).
As a result, it is becoming increasingly difficult for the public and the media to “follow the money,” the traditional means to trace how big money in the political system produces favorable outcomes for those doing the giving.
The excuse for such secrecy is that large donors fear a backlash should their involvement become public. Poor little sensitive dears.
What do they think happens when John Q. Public writes a letter to the editor of the local newspaper, puts a campaign sign in his front yard or a bumper sticker on his car?
Why should they be exempt from disclosing contributions measured in the millions of dollars, while Jane Q. Public’s little $500 contribution to a candidate ends up in a FEC database accessible to her employer, her family and friends and everyone else with an Internet connection?
As one prominent jurist noted back in 2010:
“Requiring people to stand up in public for their political acts fosters civic courage, without which democracy is doomed. For my part, I do not look forward to a society which, thanks to the Supreme Court, campaigns anonymously and even exercises the direct democracy of initiative and referendum hidden from public scrutiny and protected from the accountability of criticism.”
Of course, given that the jurist in question was Justice Antonin Scalia, he may be singing a different tune now, given the partisan turn this issue has taken.
– Jay Bookman
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757 comments Add your comment
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
3:44 pm
Joseph are you an acolyte of the Rick Perry School of Global Cooling?
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:45 pm
Arizona has been left behind by the federal gubmint. Now Colorado..
http://nation.foxnews.com/white-house/2012/06/27/obama-hasnt-spoken-colorado-gov-15-days-despite-raging-wildfires
getalife
June 27th, 2012
3:45 pm
w did start the operation.
Fact.
Mama Says
June 27th, 2012
3:45 pm
Bro,
I don’t disagree with anything you said.
But wouldn’t the justice department be somewhat responsible for not indicting the cases they had enough info to indict on ?
Could that be why holder doesn’t want to turn over all the documents ?
Wouldn’t u like to see e mails on the subject at the prosecutorial level ?
Why did they wait ?
getalife
June 27th, 2012
3:46 pm
joey,
fox?
Hilarious.
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
3:46 pm
Looks like Obama might be throwing Withholder under the bus to keep incriminating documents under wraps until after the election. As attorney’s advise their clients if you have nothing to hide don’t hide it.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:48 pm
JamVet:
No I’m a person of reason and logic unlike libs. Logic would tell you that nature is constantly changing no matter what man does. We have had periods of extreme cooling along with extreme warming.
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
3:48 pm
BTW, Bro, don’t think that you rebutting – with actual verifiable, relevant information, data, facts, evidence and links – the Mindless Masters of Misinformation here, goes unnoticed.
Keep owning them and keep up the good work.
Reminds me of the old joke – How do you know when a Republican is lying? His lips are moving.
getalife
June 27th, 2012
3:48 pm
del,
Executive privilege.
The issue is over.
Get over it.
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
3:48 pm
“w did start the operation.”
On a much smaller scale and people weren’t getting killed.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:49 pm
getalife:
Watch the video Skippy…. I guess FOX can manipulate the idiocy of Jay Carney…
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:50 pm
GWB did not start F & F… Even Holder testified to that…
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
3:50 pm
getalife, get over it? It’s only the beginning.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
3:50 pm
No I’m a person of reason and logic unlike libs.
HA!
Good one. You almost had me there.
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
3:52 pm
your earlier posts conflict with your latest but I am glad to hear that you now understand better the definition of “toxic”. I’ll still sleep better at night knowing that the EPA is there to safeguard us from exposure to 10 ppb and in fact are pushing for 0 ppb, with good reason.
No conflict whatsoever. 5 ppb benzene in groundwater is not toxic, never has been, never will be.
And what do you think about those field measurements of benzene that were well in excess of ny acceptable level of benzene in water except for perhaps by the Koch crooks and their supporters.
I think it indicates that the water would not meet EPA Drinking Water Standards. Not enough information is given to determine if it is a direct result of fracking, but it may well be if the constituents used in nearby fracking are the same as those detected. If the company or companies involved are responsible then they should be held liable for cleaning up the water if the EPA and State agency determines that it is necessary, and there are plenty of current regulations in the Clean Water Act that will require that. But there may be other avenues of remediation and it might be determined that the aquifer is of little value and they will just let mother earth take care of it by natural processes through dispersion and biological degradation.
I have no problem holding the companies responsible and they should submit plans for review by the regulatory agencies before beginning. No one should go willy nilly squirting chemicals into the subsurface, but I also think that fracking can be done safely by taking reasonable precautions. And mistakes will be made by the producers and the regulators, but I don’t see the catastrophies occurring that the alarmists predict. Like all things risks should be weighed against rewards, and to say we accept 0 risk, is not a reasonable approach.
You seem to be overtly fixated on this one number from the EPA. Is that by diversionary design.
It was the number that your source incorrectly cited as toxic. It’s the drinking water standard for benzene and many other VOCs.
By the way, how did you come to settle on that handle of yours.
Started here in a discussion on religion and I just kept the handle. Keeps the lefties from characterizing all conservatives as religious nut-jobs.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:53 pm
F & F started in Oct 2009… Last I checked GWB wasn’t President then…
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
3:55 pm
Joseph, tell it to virtually all of the experts in the field of climatology.
You are immune to facts. So you make up your own. At all. Other than what tidbits you’ve gleaned from the science experts (LOL) at Fox News. You know nothing at all about the science. You think you and Rush Limbaugh are the experts instead of the actual experts.
Understand this clearly.
You neocons share your bizarre views and ideological non-science with NO other significant organization on the entire planet. Not even the Iranians! THAT is how twisted you Republicans have become.
Is that lost on you?
That you ask for the humiliation of that by bringing up the subject is to me, quite remarkable…
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
June 27th, 2012
3:55 pm
Well, I see the latest polls have Obama ahead of Romney in Florida, Pennsylvania, and Ohio, and they’re saying if it stays that way, Obama’s a cinch for reelection. The polls show Obama way ahead with women voters.
I just don’t get it. I would think women would go for Romney big time. After all, Romney favors a woman’s Right to Choose. No? Scratch that. Well, Romney does favor making insurance cos. cover birth control pills. No? Scratch that, then. And Romney’s all for women getting in the pulpit? No? Scratch another one. Anyway, I’m pretty sure Romney’s in favor of equal pay for women. No? Dang! Scratch another one.
Anyway, there must be some reason all those women don’t like Romney. If this keeps up the Kenyan Muslim Usurper is going to get another term. Better slap your little woman around a while to make sure she votes for Romney. I’ll take a pass on that. The missus outweights me by about 180 lbs.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
3:56 pm
“So the absence of a clear explanation for this unbelievably stupid gun program, that mirrored only a slightly less unbelievably stupid one that began during the Bush years, is evidence of a larger conspiracy to ban assault weapons?” – Jon Stewart
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
3:56 pm
He hasn’t talked to the Gov in 15 days about the catastrophic wildfires ripping through the state…
Will y’all pseudo-conservatives settle on one line of talking points and stick with it.
First, y’all get on Obama about getting into state and local stuff such as the Gates arrest and all. Now, you’re upset because he’s not getting involved in state stuff, nevermind the fact that there are substantial fed efforts at helping fight those fires. I swear, if y’all didn’t have something to complain about, you’d probably forget to breathe.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
3:56 pm
“Are you sure it’s not evidence that Obama’s just arming Mexico so they can lead him to retake the Alamo? Do you think it’s that? Maybe he’s using the weapons to weigh Mexico down, sinking it, thus creating acres of new beachfront property… to soil with an oil spill! Obama’s given no explanation that would make me believe otherwise, so I’m inclined to go with it.” – Jon Stewart
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
3:57 pm
Many on here who jumped all over (and rightfully so) the bloggers who seem try and convict Zimmerman, are some of the very one’s who have already convicted Holder and even Obama. Let’s not even talk about Issa stating that he had NOTHING in terms of evidence that says any sort of cover-up occurred.
A heaping of irony for your late lunch. Goes great with an apple.
But do carry on with your diatribes and rhetoric……
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:57 pm
JamVet:
What facts have you put forward to support your claim. Is it because the so called “experts” tell you its so.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
3:58 pm
“If that’s the case, though, what did y’all think of the Bush year shenanigans? Secret torture programs, wiretapping citizens without a warrant, putting signing statements onto laws that negated what the law actually said, stonewalling Congress, holding Americans without trial by calling them “enemy combatants”? What was your working theory on the tyranny and lawlessness of those secret programs?
6/26/2006:
STEVE DOOCY: Do you feel that it is in the public’s best interest to know when the government does secret stuff — that really protects you — you wanna know everything?
E.D. HILL: I don’t need to know about secret programs.
BRIAN KILMEADE: To a certain degree, you have to trust the people you elected when it comes to national security. If not, what is it saying about our leaders if we can’t even trust them to watch our back?
E.D. HILL: Yeah!
It says you didn’t vote for them!
“
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:59 pm
Brosephus™:
Our tax dollars go to fund FEMA for a reason….
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
3:59 pm
Operation Wide Receiver was initiated on Bush’s watch. Fast and Furious was initiated on Obama’s watch and was a much larger scale operation that fell apart.
AU Liberal in ATL
June 27th, 2012
3:59 pm
With their Citizens United ruling the Supreme Court has set us up for a plutocracy. Romney is clearly a plutocrat and it’s beyond me why any average citizen would even consider voting for that! My guess is that you wingnuts don’t even know what that means. Check your Funk and Wagnalls. Oh, your Funk and Wagnalls is a dictionary.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
3:59 pm
Many on here who jumped all over (and rightfully so) the bloggers who seem try and convict Zimmerman, are some of the very one’s who have already convicted Holder and even Obama
THIS
BTW, in case one were inclined to look, you would find that I repeatedly stated all I wanted was a trial, not that I had convicted him.
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
3:59 pm
Brosephus™:
Its just another glaring example of Oblama being out of touch…
Joseph
June 27th, 2012
4:00 pm
Recon 0311 2533:
Operation Wide Receiver was initiated on Bush’s watch and ended on Bush’s watch.
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
4:02 pm
Adam
Sorry but you were not even part of my thought process one way or the other when posted @ 3:57
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
4:04 pm
Joseph, correct. Fast and Furious was initiated on Obama’s watch and was a much larger operation that all agree got out of control.
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
4:04 pm
Adam
So to your point, no need for me to research anything
But carry on if you like
Adam
June 27th, 2012
4:05 pm
They BOTH suck: I know, just covering my bases. By agreeing with you I realized one might try to jump on me for being the of the crowd that “already convicted him.” My wording didn’t make that clear.
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
4:08 pm
Adam
Cool
Not one who was doing the railing against those who had Zimmerman already convicted will admit they are doing the same on F&F…….
Can I get one of you to admit the irony (HYPOCRISY)?
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 27th, 2012
4:09 pm
FROM THE FRONT PAGE OF THE NATIONAL REVIEW
Fast and Furious is a horrific scandal. The public deserves answers as to who devised the operation and what they hoped to accomplish. But the theory that Fast and Furious was devised to promote gun control goes far beyond the evidence, as Issa basically admitted to ABC this weekend, and it does not withstand scrutiny. The chairman should be ashamed to have dabbled in it, and should fully retract his initial comment, unless he has a considerable amount of evidence he has not shared with the public.
Who’s tossing who under what bus?
USMC
June 27th, 2012
4:10 pm
01-20-2013
HOPE FOR CHANGE
godless heathen
June 27th, 2012
4:11 pm
Tax: I’ll still sleep better at night knowing that the EPA is there to safeguard us from exposure to 10 ppb and in fact are pushing for 0 ppb, with good reason.
Exposure is a key word here, Tax. You would not believe the amount of money spent by industry and local governments studying, assessing, and remediating groundwater that has virtually no chance of ever being consumed by anyone. Some of the regulatory groups have adopted some reasonable risk based standards and will give “no further action” to sites while other regulatory groups still require a total clean-up. Groundwater contaminated with benzene from a leaking gas tank is treated totally differently than groundwater contaminated with benzene from a landfill. But mention screwed up environmental regulations or unreasonable environmental regulations and you’ll have people throwing links to groups like Earthworks at you and accusing you of being in bed with the Koch Brothers and big industry.
You might want to look at your own County’s budget and see what they spend each year monitoring the old landfill or landfills that every town has. They pay to test for all kinds of chemicals in the water at least twice a year and there is usually not a drinking water well for miles around. And they will be testing this water long after you and I are gone. I think the local governments could find better use for this money that is wasted under the guise of “protecting the environment”, but in today’s world it’s political suicide for a politician to even suggest taking a hard look at our environmental regulations, unless it’s to tighten them.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
4:13 pm
Joseph
I generally scroll over your posts, but I’ll entertain dialogue with you for a post or two…
First, where do you think all those helicopters and planes dumping water and fire retardents on those fires come from? Colorado or the National Forestry Service? Second, were you even aware that the Air Force had specially outfitted C-130’s that could dump on fires too, and they are ALREADY in Colorado doing exactly that?
C’mon man, I know your google ain’t that partisaned that you think the federal government isn’t out there battling that fire. What are you expecting, Obama to hop into turnout gear and grab a hose himself?
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_20937378/colorado-wildfires-c-130-air-tankers-called-surge?source=rss
The battle to contain devastating wildfires across Colorado reached a new and more aggressive stage Monday as C-130 military tankers joined the fight to bombard the Waldo Canyon blaze with thousands of gallons of fire retardant.
Four of the C-130 aircraft, two from the 302nd Airlift Wing of the U.S. Air Force Reserve at Peterson Air Force Base and two from the 153rd Airlift Wing of the Wyoming Air National Guard in Cheyenne, took to the skies with 3,000 gallons of fire retardant in each of their bellies.
The planes can drop their huge payloads in less than five seconds and can be refilled in 15 minutes.
There are only eight such C-130s, plus one spare, in all of the United States that can be fitted with thespecial firefighting equipment, and half the fleet is now in Colorado.
Each plane costs $6,600 per flight hour, according to a U.S. Forest Service report.
That means that half the C-130’s capable of fighting fires are in Colorado alone, nevermind any other fires going on. Dude, I think you picked the wrong fire hydrant to take a whiz on this time.
I guess now you’ll be adding up the number of flights they take and complain that Obama’s spending us to death.
barking frog
June 27th, 2012
4:14 pm
Enter your comments here
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
4:14 pm
TBS,
What’s at issue is the administrations refusal to turn over several thousand documents associated with F&F. No ones being accused or convicted of anything but this refusal casts suspicion as to the administrations motive for refusing. Justifiable suspicion, no?
Tom Middleton
June 27th, 2012
4:15 pm
The antidote to anonymous donations, Jay, is the reasonable assumption that the candidates receiving them are working against our better interests.
When it comes to secret campaign donations AND candidates who refuse to be specific about what they are proposing, Mitt, we should assume a cowardice we don’t want in our representative offices, especially since we’ve no idea who or what they’re representing.
In other words, if we want honesty in our leadership – and I would think at this point We The People would want this first – then we should stop at nothing less than making them be honest, period!
USMC
June 27th, 2012
4:15 pm
Ahhh Yes, the age old wisdom of the Socialist/DemocRats…
Give the welfare crowd a card to purchase CIGARETTES.
Ingenious, “get ‘em hooked on free money/welfare and nicotine and they will never vote Republican again”. (sounds like LBJ)
Clerk loses job over stand
http://www.sentinelsource.com/news/local/clerk-loses-job-over-stand/article_87627ed5-5d4e-5ff0-a781-f14deb034771.html
JamVet
June 27th, 2012
4:17 pm
. Is it because the so called “experts” tell you its so.
NO SH*T, SHERLOCK!
That is the way the world works.
The Royal Academy of Sciences from ALL of the educated countries in the world, NASA, NOAA, National Geographic and on and on and on and on and on are in complete agreement.
The theory is valid.
Only you neocons think that you know more than them.
You don’t.
You are absurd with a capital A.
And invalid.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
4:18 pm
From 6/14/12
http://www.broomfieldenterprise.com/broomfield-news/ci_20860484/heavy-tanker-helping-fight-high-park-blaze-briefly?source=rss_viewed
The fleet of aircraft being used to battle the 52,000-acre High Park Fire near Fort Collins was one heavy tanker short this afternoon, when the U.S. Forest Service briefly grounded one plane after flames shot out of its engine when the pilot started it.
The tanker’s carburetor apparently became flooded with fuel that caught fire when the engine started, according to U.S. Forest Service spokesman Steve Segin. The plane, among five heavy tankers using the Rocky Mountain Metropolitan Airport’s air tanker base in Broomfield as home base, was briefly grounded as a precaution, but is back at work battling one of the largest wildfires in Colorado history, Segin said.
Adam
June 27th, 2012
4:18 pm
USMC: Did you actually read that article you posted?
Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people
June 27th, 2012
4:24 pm
I bet jay has a hard time sleeping tonight
So much for him to opine on tomorrow
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
4:26 pm
Recon
As I have stated several times, I have not indicted or exonerated anyone in the F&F operation. When looking at all the background politics being played with the NRA, I do get dubious as to the motives, just like you are with Holder.
Time will tell. Holder may get thrown under the bus (as you say), but if you are waiting for a bombshell I wouldn’t place any bets in Vegas.
Go look up the NRA lobbying (strong arming) to get Dems to vote for contempt. Why would they need to be involved? Maybe another take on “Obama’s going to take your guns” bull$hit that they sold the “right” before and after he was 1st elected? I still have mine. Actually purchased another pistol in March: Sig P229. Damn it shoots good.
DC is politics, so I’m sure Holder is playing as well, but it is funny that people think Issa is just looking to get to the “Bottom of F&F” and politics in an election has never crossed his mind.
USMC
June 27th, 2012
4:30 pm
CNN Sinks To 21-Year Primetime Ratings
http://www.deadline.com/2012/06/cnn-sinks-to-21-year-primetime-ratings-low-in-second-quarter/
After years of intellectually dishonest reporting of the news and selling out to the Leftwing/Extremist ideology, the chickens have finally come home to roost over at CNN.
I wonder what this means for the future of race baiting shows like “Black in America” etc.???
(I think Soledad’s Affirmative Action card is about to expire)
How about the novel idea of “reporting the news” in an unbiased manner:-)
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 27th, 2012
4:31 pm
JamVet:
“had Washington, et al lost ……. they would have all been hanged as traitors.
By foreigners. Not by Americans.”
Disagree ……………… Washington, et al as British subjects and citizens would have been hung by the British government. There would have been “no” Americans.
Recon 0311 2533
June 27th, 2012
4:43 pm
TBS,
Of course politics is in play. Both parties engage in it and when there’s blood in the water as there is now the party on offense Republican or Democrat is going to turn up the heat as far as they can. I don’t think you can blame the NRA protecting gun owner rights is what they do. Sometimes correctly and sometimes incorrectly and they mistrust Holder for good reason. IMO Holder was clearly stonewalling and now Obama himself falls under suspicion for asserting executive privledge. I’m not predicting any bombshell but I will predict this will be another campaign problem for Obama’s reelection team unless the documents are turned over and everything is clean. Should that happen it would backfire on Issa and the Republicans. At this late hour it doesn’t appear those documents will be turned over.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
4:50 pm
USMC — “(I think Soledad’s Affirmative Action card is about to expire)”
You’re still fuming from her busting Brownie out on national TV right after Katrina, I see.
Michael
June 27th, 2012
4:52 pm
USMC. Read the report on the ratings. If they got more Idiots like Beck. Hannity and O’Reilly they could get idiots like yourself tuning in. I bet “there is no hope that you will ever change.” Narrow minded people rarely do.
They BOTH suck
June 27th, 2012
4:53 pm
Recon
Yes it will be a campaign issue. No different than Dems going after Bush for real and perceived BS.
Mighty Righty
June 27th, 2012
5:06 pm
Brosephus-I know this is not your version but one you are merely passing on. It does raise several questions.
Ten days after the meeting with Hurley, a Saturday, Jaime Avila, a transient, admitted methamphetamine user, bought three WASR-10 rifles at the Lone Wolf Trading Company in Glendale, Ariz. The next day, a helpful Lone Wolf employee faxed Avila’s purchase form to ATF to flag the suspicious activity. It was the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday weekend, so the agents didn’t receive the fax until Tuesday, according to a contemporaneous case report. By that time, the legally purchased guns had been gone for three days. The agents had never seen the weapons and had no chance to seize them. But they entered the serial numbers into their gun database. Two of these were later recovered at Brian Terry’s murder scene.
(The implication above is that the murder weapons were legally purchased and were therefore outside of the gunwalking fast and furious program. However subsequent actions by ATF as metioned below contradict the seemingly innocence of the above act.
By the end of July 2010, the Fast and Furious investigation was largely complete. The agents had sent prosecutors 20 names for immediate indictment, Jaime Avila’s among them. His purchase of the three WASR-10s were listed among his criminal acts. On Aug. 17, 2010, ATF agents met in Phoenix with prosecutors, including U.S. Attorney Dennis Burke. According to two people present, the ATF presented detailed evidence, including the fact that their suspects had purchased almost 2,000 guns, and pushed for indictments. (Strange that US Attorney wants to indict 20 people who purchsaed 2000 guns which were later determined to be part of fast and furious.)
A month later, on Sept. 17, an ATF team—this time including ATF director Kenneth Melson—met with prosecutors again and again pushed for action. The sides agreed to aim for indictments by October, according to one person in attendance. (Aha! Now US Attorneys are stalling. At who’s direction? They work for Department of Justice.)
But as weeks and then months passed, prosecutors did not issue indictments. The ATF agents grew increasingly concerned. By December, prosecutors had dropped Avila’s name from the indictment list for what they deemed a lack of evidence. (More stalling by Justice)
Only when Terry, the U.S. Border Patrol agent, was murdered in December 2010 did the prosecutors act. Voth’s agents arrested Avila within 24 hours of Terry’s death. On Jan. 19, 2011, a federal grand jury indicted him and 19 other suspects. (Avila has since pleaded guilty to dealing guns without a license).
Seems that the person responsible for giving them the guns plead guilty after being arrested. Had US attorneys been a bit more proactive in actually trying to prosecute straw purchases and such, maybe BP Agent Terry might still be patrolling Arizona today. We’ll never know.
My conclusion is that increasing gun laws would not have guaranteed action. Law without enforcement iseaningless. With all of theconfusion described above Issa not Justice should investigate. Congress should give immunity to all involved and compel their testimony including Holders. Something is fishy.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 27th, 2012
5:20 pm
Righty — “My conclusion is that increasing gun laws would not have guaranteed action. Law without enforcement iseaningless. With all of theconfusion described above Issa not Justice should investigate. Congress should give immunity to all involved and compel their testimony including Holders. Something is fishy.”
While I am not 100% in agreement with you, this is one of the most reasonable things I have ever heard you say.
Brosephus™
June 27th, 2012
5:38 pm
My conclusion is that increasing gun laws would not have guaranteed action. Law without enforcement iseaningless.
That’s true. However, toothless laws leads to toothless enforcement. You’ll never know what kind of action will come from things if you don’t legislate it. Do you not think that law enforcement authorities would not viggorously go after criminals that out-man and usually out gun them if they had effective laws they could enforce against them?
I’ll agree with you in that something is fishy. I really thought this was your standard political whizzing contest until the NRA started their pressure push in this whole thing. I would love for nothing more than ALL truths to come forward, including the zeal for going after Holder personally and not the ATF Agents and/or US prosecutors in Arizona as well.