Scalia plays politician; Romney plays possum
In another sign of just how screwy things have gotten, Mitt Romney, the GOP nominee for president, steadfastly refuses to get involved in the political debate about immigration. He refuses to offer his own ideas about a national immigration strategy*, and he won’t voice an opinion on President Obama’s controversial decision not to deport illegal aliens who were brought here as young children.
But worry not: A supposedly nonpolitical Supreme Court justice, Antonin Scalia, is eager to jump into the political fray where Romney is too meek to tread. In his radical dissent to today’s ruling on the Arizona immigration law, Scalia argues that Arizona and the other 49 states have the right to exercise “what most would consider the defining characteristic of sovereignty: the power to exclude from the sovereign’s territory people who have no right to be there.”
“Even in its international relations, the federal government must live with the inconvenient fact that it is a Union of independent states, who have their own sovereign powers,” Scalia writes.
Just as remarkably, Scalia used his dissent to lambaste Obama’s decision regarding children of illegal immigrants, slyly referring to “the Executive’s unwise targeting” of available resources to combat illegal immigration.
“The husbanding of scarce enforcement resources can hardly be the justification for this, since the considerable administrative cost of conducting as many as 1.4 million background checks, and ruling on the biennial requests for dispensation that the non-enforcement program envisions, will necessarily be deducted from immigration enforcement,” Scalia complained.
Scalia plays politician; Romney plays possum.
———-
*Note: Here’s the official Romney response to today’s ruling:
“Today’s decision underscores the need for a president who will lead on this critical issue and work in a bipartisan fashion to pursue a national immigration strategy. President Obama has failed to provide any leadership on immigration. This represents yet another broken promise by this president. I believe that each state has the duty — and the right — to secure our borders and preserve the rule of law, particularly when the federal government has failed to meet its responsibilities. As Candidate Obama, he promised to present an immigration plan during his first year in office. But four years later, we are still waiting.”
– Jay Bookman
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726 comments Add your comment
Joe the Plutocrat
June 25th, 2012
5:35 pm
yep, that was Reagan’s amnesty. but to your point; by what happened? do you mean with Bush 41 and Bush 43; or what happened with Clinton and Obama?
getalife
June 25th, 2012
5:35 pm
Money is free speech and corporations are people that can bribe politicians with unlimited legalized bribes.
This period in American history will be the corrupt generation with no moral compass.
They BOTH suck
June 25th, 2012
5:36 pm
Billybob
I assume you are voting for Romney. Whether you wish to admit it or not, he has worn out more taps on the bottom of his shoes than he can count. Yes, because he panders
Joe the Plutocrat
June 25th, 2012
5:38 pm
josef, it is not possible for a politician to find “common ground” beyond their own party/ideological herd. this is why we have the mess we have. don’t trust me? read this. this guy nails it. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-congress-doesnt-work/
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
5:40 pm
Joe the Plutocrat @ 5:33
The consequence of not criminalizing illegal immigration and strictly enforcing immigration laws is that, sooner or later, bad things are going to happen (as you point out they did with 9/11). I think all of the presidents and members of Congress since 1986 have been complicit in failing to do the right thing. It is comparable to us not finding a viable alternative energy resource after we saw the writing on the wall in 1973 with the oil embargo. But is certainly is human nature, isn’t it?
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
5:41 pm
“Like you and I were saying the other day, this is not a partisan issue. If you and I (of all people!) can find common ground, then so can the politicians. That they don’t means they just flat ain’t listening to folks like me and you…”
I concur wholeheartedly, my friend.
That Black Guy
June 25th, 2012
5:41 pm
Mr_B
June 25th, 2012
4:32 pm
“In other news, President Obama played his 101st round of golf yesterday. Bush played 32 rounds in 8 years.”
NEWSFLASH!!!!! Obama enjoys golf more than Bush did!!!!!! Plays better basketball too.
____________________________________________________________
And you KNOW this how?
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
5:42 pm
“The flying jets in the WTC were dirty bombs?”
Hoo-boy. Try a Google search, then.
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
5:43 pm
““In other news, President Obama played his 101st round of golf yesterday. Bush played 32 rounds in 8 years.”
I think Obama would just say he has more “game”
carlosgvv
June 25th, 2012
5:43 pm
Butch Cassidy – 4:58 – “the Native American population”
Since America has been a country for over 200 years, I believe all of us born here are “native Americans”.
Of course, if you want to “go back where you came from”, Delta is ready when you are.
Arthur Nielsen
June 25th, 2012
5:44 pm
“Hoo-boy. Try a Google search, then.”
A Google search is a dirty bomb?
They BOTH suck
June 25th, 2012
5:44 pm
TBG @ 5:41
How does Mr B if Bush Jr can or can’t drain the 3 or run the point for that matter?
That Black Guy
June 25th, 2012
5:44 pm
getalife
June 25th, 2012
4:35 pm
66 % Latino vote for President Obama.
25% willard.
Owned.
_____________________________________________________
The election is over?
How late DID I sleep this morning?
TaxPayer
June 25th, 2012
5:45 pm
An only child, Antonin Scalia was born in Trenton, New Jersey, on March 11, 1936.[1] His father, Salvatore Eugene Scalia, was an immigrant from Sicily who was a graduate student and clerk at the time of his son’s birth, but who later became a professor of Romance languages at Brooklyn College.[2] His mother, Catherine Scalia (née Panaro), was born in the United States to Italian immigrant parents, and worked as an elementary school teacher.[2]
Were Scalia’s parents legal immigrants. Perhaps Scalia should self-deport.
That Black Guy
June 25th, 2012
5:45 pm
TBS, what’s good my man?
Had a good weekend I hope.
Billybob
June 25th, 2012
5:46 pm
tbs,
i will not vote for obama, and the continued push for conservatives to be elected this fall will cause serious pains for the republican establishment which i suspect romney is part of……this is the shift that is taking place as we speak…the key is to get the leftists like obama and reid out of power, they have shown their cards and it is not what the marketing plan pretended they were when they assumned power…..
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
5:48 pm
“A Google search is a dirty bomb?”
No, but getalife posing as a different poster is…
They BOTH suck
June 25th, 2012
5:49 pm
TC
The Obama played golf for the “umpteenth” time is as played out as when the Dems cried each time Bush went to Camp David or to Texas imo.
While I think he will win by a slime margin, Obama is surely beatable, however the number of times he played golf for the most part only plays with those that were not voting for him…. period. Same as Bush and his time off.
Great to rile up the base…….. at best, not much more
josef
June 25th, 2012
5:50 pm
JOE P
Thanks for that link…I scanned over it and it looks really interesting. I’ll be coming back to it.
They BOTH suck
June 25th, 2012
5:54 pm
Billbob
Thanks for the reply. Yes, if you have looked over Romney’s numerous changes and evolutions since Governor and even after until now, he is more the Country Club set than Tea Party. I have not once begrudged him of his earnings, nor will l. I just don’t like the fact that he is running right on many issues nor do I really like his economic platform to be honest. You may like those things.
As for the conservative push, it will last for a few more elections and could even eclipse Obama, but if those same people don’t do more “outreach”, demographics will catch up……… like that or not.
Adam
June 25th, 2012
5:54 pm
Ok I have gone through a couple of pages, and I saw more than one person post Obama’s immigration plan. And I saw no conservative acknowledge it. Did that change in the last few pages?
They BOTH suck
June 25th, 2012
5:55 pm
TBG
Weekend was good. Hung out with the gf on Friday and Sunday. Went out with the boys for some beers on Saturday.
Hope you are doing well and had a great weekend
Adam
June 25th, 2012
5:56 pm
Peadawg: So only people who have/will vote for Obama can have an opinion and care about what he does?
No, it means that you don’t care about those promises and have different goals than the ones he proposes. I suggest that if you don’t want what he offers, you vote for someone else, and stop complaining that he hasn’t kept promises that you don’t want to have happen anyway. THAT is my point.
They BOTH suck
June 25th, 2012
5:57 pm
“slim margin”
But “slime” may be what it is called if he wins and the voter fraud accusations coming flying out…….
“slime margin”
hahahahahah
:-0
Rex
June 25th, 2012
5:57 pm
Do we really have a Supreme Court justice who thinks the US is a collection of “independent states” with “sovereign powers”? Wasn’t this misconception cleared up back in the 1860s?
Adam
June 25th, 2012
5:58 pm
Peadawg, They BOTH suck, Jm: In other words, if you don’t like Obama’s promises, stop complaining that he hasn’t kept them. If you DO like his promises, I can see why you’d complain. I don’t like Romney’s promises to do certain things, some of which he did not do as Governor. However, I criticize him for those policies, not for not keeping a promise that would have solidified those policies into law.
josef
June 25th, 2012
5:59 pm
BOTH
I was going to comment on your Freudian slip!
Soothsayer
June 25th, 2012
5:59 pm
OK, here we go again:
Obama in the bag: 221
CO 9
IA 6
NV 6
NH 4
VA 13
WI 10
Total: 269 One short of victory.
If Obama wins FL (1.8 lead) or MI (1.4) lead or OH 1.8 lead then he wins the White House.
josef
June 25th, 2012
6:01 pm
REX
Just for the sake of EOI it wasn’t cleared up…it was pretty much settled, but cleared up? Not at all…
They BOTH suck
June 25th, 2012
6:01 pm
josef
About spit water out of my mouth when I reread it…..
Paul
June 25th, 2012
6:02 pm
Adam 5:54
“And I saw no conservative acknowledge it. Did that change in the last few pages?”
Only if you consider silence and departing to be acknowledgement.
They BOTH suck
June 25th, 2012
6:04 pm
josef
For the countries sake and especially those seeking employment, I hope the economy starts gaining more steam and soon. (Might be wishful thinking but still a good wish) If it is a boom of some sort, watch and listen to how quick these issues die down to a few voices as compared to now
They BOTH suck
June 25th, 2012
6:06 pm
country’s sake
Need to do one thing at a time. Multi tasking on two computers is not my thing. Now let me go reread a work email I was working on before I really mess up something
Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people
June 25th, 2012
6:06 pm
America permits more than a million new immigrants every year, far more than any other country in the world
If we kicked all the illegal immigrants out, we’d still be the most generous country on the planet
Adam
June 25th, 2012
6:09 pm
Only if you consider silence and departing to be acknowledgement.
I don’t. But I do consider changing the subject and continuing to speak on other issues as dodging. Silence on a blog, in total, can mean they just went home or something (don’t think I don’t know you’re doing this at work too, conservatives… assuming you aren’t in a tent somewhere
)
Liberal Pariah
June 25th, 2012
6:10 pm
Hey Taxpayer…Scalia’s parents were LEGAL IMMIGRANTS…jeez
That Black Guy
June 25th, 2012
6:12 pm
Arthur Nielsen
June 25th, 2012
5:30 pm
“You mean like flying jets into the WTC?”
The world ended that day?
_____________________________________
For 3,000+, yes, in fact it did.
josef
June 25th, 2012
6:13 pm
BOTH
@ 6:04
Yep. Gotta blame some-group-no-mine.
That Black Guy
June 25th, 2012
6:14 pm
getalife
June 25th, 2012
5:32 pm
“did somebody set off a dirty bomb recently?”
Yeah, citizen united.
____________________________
Good one.
josef
June 25th, 2012
6:20 pm
While I haven’t had time to read the decision closely, on first scan it seems it can be boiled down to: “this is a federal issue. Got a problem? Take it up with Washington.”
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
June 25th, 2012
6:21 pm
Scalia for President!
Bud Wiser
June 25th, 2012
6:28 pm
I think that after Romney is elected President, we, as Americans, will at long last have a President with the gonads to enforce the law, not become some sort of political weasel like this sap we have right now.
The fact that Arizona had to go to the lengths that it did, albeit in the eyes of SCOTUS the wrong ones, that in itself highlights yet again what an abysmal ‘leader’ Obama is, and showing yet another failure of a president he has become.
Tearing down Obamacare is next, probably on Thursday.
Hussein’s “signature legislatiuon” will be a signature all right, one on his one way ticket out of town come November.
What an idiot, what a laughing stock, a fool, this incapable and overmatched tool this Obama character is revealed to be.
I am laughing at his so-called superiority.
Too bad Columbia will never release his alleged transcripts so we can see yet again just how stupid this punk really is.
Paulo977
June 25th, 2012
6:28 pm
Oscar
June 25th, 2012
2:20 pm
Sovereign states. Did someone just change the clock back to 1835
____________________________________________________
Who would have thought it!!!!
The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers
June 25th, 2012
6:28 pm
https://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/issues/public-opinion/americans-oppose-amnesty.html
Just like Obamacare a majority of americans are against making it easier on illegals. A majority of americans voting against obama’s policies = Romney as president!!
josef
June 25th, 2012
6:30 pm
BUD
You don’t like Obama very much, do you?
That Black Guy
June 25th, 2012
6:31 pm
They BOTH suck
June 25th, 2012
6:06 pm
country’s sake
Need to do one thing at a time. Multi tasking on two computers is not my thing. Now let me go reread a work email I was working on before I really mess up something
__________________________________________________________
Yeah, it would suck to call your boss or client a azzhatted troglodyte by mistake, thinking you were replying to someone here.
Paulo977
June 25th, 2012
6:34 pm
Adam
suggest that if you don’t want what he offers, you vote for someone else, and stop complaining that he hasn’t kept promises that you don’t want to have happen anyway. THAT is my point.
___________________________________________________
Ha Ha Ha ……..did he mean to be funny? The who lot of
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
6:35 pm
“The Obama played golf for the “umpteenth” time is as played out as when the Dems cried each time Bush went to Camp David or to Texas imo.”
I was merely being facetious in my response, TBS. I don’t have a big problem with him playing golf a hundred time in 3.5 years – less than once a week.
They BOTH suck
June 25th, 2012
6:37 pm
TC
I know you you are not a fan of his policies, but figured that issue wasn’t much of a concern of yours. I was just pointing out how both sides get worked up over nothing when it comes to the golf and vacation issue.
They BOTH suck
June 25th, 2012
6:38 pm
TBG @ 6:31
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
6:39 pm
“Do we really have a Supreme Court justice who thinks the US is a collection of “independent states” with “sovereign powers”? Wasn’t this misconception cleared up back in the 1860s?”
The concept of federalism in our country has evolved over time and there is still a lot of debate on where lines of power should properly be drawn.
Sandra
June 25th, 2012
6:40 pm
Bruno,
Who do you think pays for people who don’t have insurance now? It’s not the insurance company profits that’s for sure. Besides, this isn’t a public option? Why do you feel it’s o.k. to require car insurance and not health insurance which everyone uses at some point. I’m really tired of you self-serving people who think you are the only ones who can tell other people what to do! I’ll bet you are one of those who thinks a woman should have no choice in her health care decisions. Hypocrite is primarily what I call people like you.
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
6:41 pm
“I know you you are not a fan of his policies, but figured that issue wasn’t much of a concern of yours. I was just pointing out how both sides get worked up over nothing when it comes to the golf and vacation issue.”
Agreed, TBS. And for the record, I would likely vote for Obama any day over RFK, LBJ or Nixon (knowing what I know now) or would not vote at all.
That Black Guy
June 25th, 2012
6:42 pm
Sandra
June 25th, 2012
6:40 pm
_______________
Sandra, you might want to rethink that particular line of attack.
Just sayin’…
St Simons - he-ne-ha
June 25th, 2012
6:43 pm
Will Scalia throw his 40 year career of expanding the commerce clause
in the trash for Freedumwerks & the Kochs?
‘A justice who does not honor stare decisis is not qualified to
be a supreme court justice.’ – Antonin Scalia
Touche, 3 stooges, touche.
and your home ground sends you a big salute, Clarence.
a big one. no, really, a big one.
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
6:46 pm
“Sandra, you might want to rethink that particular line of attack.”
It seems it was more a vent than an attempt to persuade, TBG.
That Black Guy
June 25th, 2012
6:47 pm
Sandra
June 25th, 2012
6:40 pm
Bruno,
Who do you think pays for people who don’t have insurance now? – The same people that will pay for it if ACA is upheld.
It’s not the insurance company profits that’s for sure. – Which will INCREASE if ACA is upheld.
Besides, this isn’t a public option? – I wish it was.
Why do you feel it’s o.k. to require car insurance – If you don’t have a car or drive on public roads, you are not required to purchase car insurance. But you knew that.
and not health insurance which everyone uses at some point. – not true. Some self insure, pay out of pocket.
F. Sinkwich
June 25th, 2012
6:48 pm
“I’ll bet you are one of those who thinks a woman should have no choice in her health care decisions.”
Statements like this one are so tedious.
Name ONE, Sandra.
JamVet
June 25th, 2012
6:48 pm
Sandra,
Occupy Wall Street wasn’t born in time for the 2009 health care debate. But that debate was a quintessential display of the power and privilege of the 1 percent.
Drug and insurance firms dictated the terms of reform: “do it our way or do nothing at all.” The result was a lopsided bargain: the American people were allowed to expand Medicaid, ship a few scraps to community health centers and impose feeble insurance regulations.
Insurers got hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars and a mandate ordering the middle class to buy their defective products.
These are the facts.
The United States stands ALONE among industrialized nations in not providing health coverage to all of its citizens. Currently, 46 million Americans lack health coverage.
Approximately 50,000 annual deaths occur in the US from the lack of insurance.
There about 800,000 medical bankruptcies each year, mostly among families with coverage.
A continuing spiral of rising costs and shrinking coverage; and continuing assaults on Medicare. But we need not meekly acquiesce to the dictates of the 1 percent.
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/06/17/what-will-change-after-the-supreme-courts-health-care-ruling/fight-instead-for-a-single-payer-system-8
That Black Guy
June 25th, 2012
6:50 pm
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
6:46 pm
“Sandra, you might want to rethink that particular line of attack.”
It seems it was more a vent than an attempt to persuade, TBG.
________________________________________________
I think you may be right.
But she did get all the talkingpoints in tho. At least she can be proud of that.
DwayneL
June 25th, 2012
6:51 pm
Every state has a right to defend it’s borders and people and that means keeping illegal alien criminals OUT!
Midori
June 25th, 2012
6:54 pm
Mitt has finally spoken up:
WASHINGTON — Presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney expressed disappointment Monday with the Supreme Court’s ruling on an Arizona immigration law, saying more latitude, not less, should be given to the states.
After he and his staff repeatedly dodged questions on his thoughts on the opinion, Romney finally gave a more specific comment when speaking with reporters on Monday afternoon, according to a pool report.
The Supreme Court ruled earlier in the day that key provisions of Arizona immigration law SB 1070 were unconstitutional, but upheld one of the most controversial elements of the law.
“Now you probably heard today there was a Supreme Court decision relating to immigration and, you know, given the failure of the immigration policy in this country, I would have preferred to see the Supreme Court give more latitude to the states not less,” Romney said in Arizona, according to the pool report. “And there are states now under this decision have less authority, less latitude, to enforce immigration laws.”
Bud Wiser
June 25th, 2012
6:55 pm
josef
June 25th, 2012
6:30 pm
BUD
You don’t like Obama very much, do you?
In short, no.
If however, he’d transport me and my family aboard Air Force One on one of those multi-million dollar golf junkets to Hawaii, I’d go, and I’d buy the beer.
My understanding that, unlike Bill Clinton, Obama doesn’t cheat at golf (kinda surprising really, considering his collection of character and ethical flaws).
But no, I do not like him.
I don’t particularly like any politician that says one thing and does another, that ALWAYS blames his own failures on others, and doesn’t have the spine to fire those who work for him and make him look even more incompetent than he really is, and his past and present associations.
But a guy that doesn’t cheat at golf may still have some good in him somewhere; we just haven’t seen it yet, and his one term is coming rapidly to a close.
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
6:55 pm
“Some self insure, pay out of pocket.”
The way I see it, TBG, as long as hospitals or clinics are required by law to not turn away patients, then there is and has been the possibility of people taking something for nothing – which is simply not right. Medical insurance should therefore instead be 1) required unless you sign a waiver and post a bond of some amount 2) cheap and 3) available to all. But in saying that much, I am not saying I believe the federal government is capable of effectively and properly overseeing our medical care, the VA’s success at times notwithstanding (as the VA has not always been good and is not in some instances even now).
F. Sinkwich
June 25th, 2012
6:56 pm
“The United States stands ALONE among industrialized nations in not providing health coverage to all of its citizens.”
Good.
We maintain our exceptionalism by condemning socialistic policies of losers.
JamVet
June 25th, 2012
6:56 pm
I’ll bet you are one of those who thinks a woman should have no choice in her health care decisions.
Are you referring to the “talking point” about hundreds and hundreds of pieces of proposed legislation by Republican men, aka the Masters of the Uterus, in numerous US states? In the past few years alone?
Some of which are so despicable and heinous – refer to the demented Terry England right here in Georgia – that they are right out of the 1700s.
And because the neocons have grown very sensitive over the phrase the GOP War on Women (though I believe that it is completely accurate), I have renamed it the Republican Full Scale Legislative Assault on Women’s Rights.
After all, they are just sluts, prostitutes and FemiNazis, right? And Rush wants the videos…
TaxPayer
June 25th, 2012
6:58 pm
Scalia’s parents were LEGAL IMMIGRANTS…jeez
I’ll have to see their papers, Pariah…jeez
josef
June 25th, 2012
6:59 pm
“DwayneL
June 25th, 2012
6:51 pm
Every state has a right to defend it’s borders and people and that means keeping illegal alien criminals OUT!”
********
Really? Wow I was unaware of that. YANKEE GO HOME!
F. Sinkwich
June 25th, 2012
7:00 pm
“Approximately 50,000 annual deaths occur in the US from the lack of insurance.”
Since you’re such an expert, Jammie, please name, say, 1%.
Can’t?
Didn’t think you could. You’re just another Chicken Little, the mascot of lib ilks.
TGT
June 25th, 2012
7:02 pm
Scalia plays politician; Romney plays possum; and Obama plays the hypocrite:
We are a “better nation” than one that aborts–I mean deports–innocent young children.
TaxPayer
June 25th, 2012
7:03 pm
Since you’re such an expert, Jammie, please name, say, 1%.
That one’s easy. It’s 500.
josef
June 25th, 2012
7:04 pm
SINKWICH
“You’re just another Chicken Little…”
Well, as the l’il ones say, “takes one to know one.”
They BOTH suck
June 25th, 2012
7:06 pm
josef
Couldn’t have said it better……….
TGT
June 25th, 2012
7:07 pm
George Washington was a “One Percenter.”
TaxPayer
June 25th, 2012
7:07 pm
Did someone say innocent young children. I don’t believe those were aborted.
JamVet
June 25th, 2012
7:08 pm
Frank Burns! They let you out of the sanitarium for awhile. There is still some sunlight left; you should go out and ride around on your tricycle with the other kids.
Under this clusterf&ck of a healthcare system that we are forced to endure, there is $400,000,000,000.00 wasted each and every year on insurers’ overhead and the paperwork burden they impose on doctors and hospitals.
In other words, over 30 cents out of every dollar spent in this country on “healthcare” is for the worst, most corrupt, wasteful and inept bureaucracy of paper pushers and claim deniers that dirty money can buy…
Doggone/GA
June 25th, 2012
7:09 pm
That Black Guy – you still here?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 25th, 2012
7:10 pm
Here’s what’s GREAT about today’s immigration law ruling:
1) It allows the State of Arizona (and other states) to check for illegal immigration based on probable cause as long as the “stop” is lawful.
2) Once we have a new, sane administration …….. our new president will tell his DHS Secretary to COOPERATE with Arizona !!!
3) BINGO !!!
They BOTH suck
June 25th, 2012
7:11 pm
Sink
Obama is coming to see you tomorrow. Pick up the gas station attendant on your way into the ATL. He will be ready to opine with you both.
F. Sinkwich
June 25th, 2012
7:11 pm
“SINKWICH
“You’re just another Chicken Little…”
Well, as the l’il ones say, “takes one to know one.””
I must admit that have sounded an alarm to all about the pending doom of this great country due to the policies championed and implemented by the most destructive threat to our way of life, the Preezy of the united steezy. At least I can come up with a real name, unlike Sandra and Jammie:
O’bozo.
Adam
June 25th, 2012
7:13 pm
I think that after Romney is elected President,
You discovered how to travel to alternate universes?????
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
7:13 pm
“The United States stands ALONE among industrialized nations in not providing health coverage to all of its citizens. Currently, 46 million Americans lack health coverage.”
There is no doubt we have a serious problem here, JV. The question is how do we properly fix it? What are your thoughts on the matter? Obviously, health care costs have to go WAY down as part of the solution. Not that I am fully persuaded to this view, but I have had a number of health care workers tell me that (in their opinion a lot of unnecessary) paperwork has driven the costs up a lot. I am not against regulation per se (I certainly, for instance, don’t want companies to start dumping toxins in rivers again) but dumb regulation that doesn’t accomplish much and burden everyone with a extra work and expense. Obviously, some sort of tort reform should be considered (monetary awards should not, imo, be solely left up to a jury and I am not sure doctors should be sued for not exploring every conceivable possibility for a medical problem no matter how remote). Doing everything to use competition amongst providers and insurers has to be part of the solution. And perhaps training doctors to be far better troubleshooters than many of them now are would help immensely as well (doctors are glorified mechanics, many of whom can troubleshoot a minor problem but are like a fish out of water with big or odd problems). What does anyone else think?
TGT
June 25th, 2012
7:13 pm
JFK was a “One Percenter.”
getalife
June 25th, 2012
7:14 pm
scalia is writing their talking points now.
filky is back.
Hide the ilk.
kayaker 71
June 25th, 2012
7:14 pm
So, now Arizona can now check on illegals and when they find one…… drum roll….. they will refer that criminal to ICE. And how much cooperation do you think that Jan Brewer’s state will get form ICE. They will ignore her and her upstart state that had the audacity to enforce immigration laws. Eric Holder and his Justice Department are a bunch of first class pricks.
josef
June 25th, 2012
7:14 pm
SINKWICH
And a piece of it fell on yore pointy l’il haid…
For the love of Pete, Mec. it’s not the end of civilization as we know it.
Doggone/GA
June 25th, 2012
7:14 pm
“doctors are glorified mechanics”
I’ll agree with that when mechanics start working on vehicles while the engine is running
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
7:15 pm
“We are a “better nation” than one that aborts–I mean deports–innocent young children.”
Heh.
F. Sinkwich
June 25th, 2012
7:15 pm
“In other words, over 30 cents out of every dollar spent in this country on “healthcare” is for the worst, most corrupt, wasteful and inept bureaucracy of paper pushers and claim deniers that dirty money can buy…”
Mostly due to government requirements, Jammie. It may not be 30%, but it’s a bunch.
Thanks to lib ilks like you.
josef
June 25th, 2012
7:19 pm
CRIER
“What does anyone else think?”
Nationalize it and be done with it. Stop these half-ass measures. The medical profession and the insurance companies declined to reform themselves when they could have and now that the mess has gotten out of hand, it’s too late. Sorry, but those are the ones who f’d it up.
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
7:21 pm
“I’ll agree with that when mechanics start working on vehicles while the engine is running.”
My point wasn’t about vehicles per se, but troubleshooting ability – unless you are prepared to argue that most doctors are really adept at troubleshooting unusual or difficult medical problems. Mechanics often diagnose a car’s problem while it is running even if they don’t usually fix it in that state. I am an engineer, so I think I know a little about troubleshooting skill – it may come naturally to some, but for most it is learned.
F. Sinkwich
June 25th, 2012
7:22 pm
“Sorry, but those are the ones who f’d it up.”
Nope.
Government did.
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
7:22 pm
“You discovered how to travel to alternate universes?????”
Should this clear possibility occur, may I repeat this to you in November?
josef
June 25th, 2012
7:26 pm
SINKWICH
“Government did.”
I might have to agree with that…by not regulating them…
TGT
June 25th, 2012
7:27 pm
Not the infant mortality argument again.
America has had a comparatively high infant mortality rate since we’ve been measuring these things, going back to at least the ’20s. This was the case long before European countries adopted their cradle-to-grave welfare schemes and all while the U.S. was the wealthiest country on Earth.
One factor contributing to the U.S.’s infant mortality rate is that blacks have intractably high infant mortality rates — irrespective of age, education, socioeconomic status and so on. No one knows why.
Neither medical care nor discrimination can explain it: Hispanics in the U.S. have lower infant mortality rates than either blacks or whites. Give Switzerland or Japan our ethnically diverse population and see how they stack up on infant mortality rates.
Even with a higher-risk population, the alleged differences in infant mortality are negligible. We’re talking about 7 infant deaths per 1,000 live births in the U.S. compared to 5 deaths per 1,000 for Britain and Canada. This is a rounding error — perhaps literally when you consider that the U.S. tabulates every birth, even in poor, small and remote areas, while other countries are not always so meticulous.
But the international comparisons in “infant mortality” rates aren’t comparing the same thing, anyway. We also count every baby who shows any sign of life, irrespective of size or weight at birth.
By contrast, in much of Europe, babies born before 26 weeks’ gestation are not considered “live births.” Switzerland only counts babies who are at least 30 centimeters long (11.8 inches) as being born alive. In Canada, Austria and Germany, only babies weighing at least a pound are considered live births.
And of course, in Milan it’s not considered living if the baby isn’t born within driving distance of the Côte d’Azur.
By excluding the little guys, these countries have simply redefined about one-third of what we call “infant deaths” in America as “miscarriages.”
Moreover, many industrialized nations, such as France, Hong Kong and Japan — the infant mortality champion — don’t count infant deaths that occur in the 24 hours after birth. Almost half of infant deaths in the U.S. occur in the first day.
JamVet
June 25th, 2012
7:28 pm
Mostly due to government requirements, Jammie.
Your argument would be stronger, Sinkwich, if you were more specific.
Where are you specifics?
(Oh, the delicious irony…)
Towncrier
June 25th, 2012
7:29 pm
“Nationalize it and be done with it.”
Well, josef, I simply don’t have the faith in government you seem to have. I mean, why would I want to entrust my health care to an entity that 1) caused and cannot fix a 16 trillion dollar deficit 2) has not fixed the illegal immigration problem though legislation was passed in 1986 3) has not worked to help us find an viable alternative energy resource in 4 decades since the 1973 embargo (though it put amen on the moon in 10 years) and so on?
Adam
June 25th, 2012
7:30 pm
unless you are prepared to argue that most doctors are really adept at troubleshooting unusual or difficult medical problems
Most medical problems are not difficult or unusual to most doctors.
Adam
June 25th, 2012
7:31 pm
Should this clear possibility occur, may I repeat this to you in November?
Why not? I have a running tally (incomplete, no doubt) of people saying Obama will lose specifically to have a list of “The Fallen” when he wins. Which is a much clearer possibility, by the way.
kayaker 71
June 25th, 2012
7:32 pm
joseph, 7:19.
I am not so sure that you would feel the same way if you were a doctor. Lets see….. four years of college, then four years of medical school, throw in a one year internship, then follow that with at least a four year residency, then maybe a one year fellowship. The bills mount up. Each of those years has a huge price tag. If you can’t pay it yourself or have your family cover it, you accumulate up to 300K and over over in student loans. You usually can’t enter private practice until about age 30 plus and then the government wants to heap regulations, rules, mountains of paperwork on you and your staff. Then there is always those hungry ambulance chasers like Edwards, eager to place you in a position where you could lose it all. The average neurosurgeon is in a seven year residency program and pays anywhere from 100K to 300K/yr in malpractice insurance, if he/she can find someone to write the paper. And after all of that, you want to nationalize health care. I wonder how you would feel if you were a doctor.