The other side of Romney’s success at Bain
Mitt Romney has made his success in the business world a central theme of his presidential campaign, suggesting that it demonstrates a level of economic understanding that President Obama cannot match.
But as the Washington Post documents, Romney and his company, Bain Capital, achieved that success in part by taking jobs once held by American workers and moving them overseas to places such as China and India, where those jobs could be performed more cheaply:
During the nearly 15 years that Romney was actively involved in running Bain, a private equity firm that he founded, it owned companies that were pioneers in the practice of shipping work from the United States to overseas call centers and factories making computer components, according to filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
While economists debate whether the massive outsourcing of American jobs over the last generation was inevitable, Romney in recent months has lamented the toll it’s taken on the U.S. economy. He has repeatedly pledged he would protect American employment by getting tough on China.
“They’ve been able to put American businesses out of business and kill American jobs,” he told workers at a Toledo fence factory in February. “If I’m president of the United States, that’s going to end.”….
The Post documents a series of cases in which Bain-related companies relocated customer-support, call-center and manufacturing operations overseas to cut costs and raise profits. In addition, Bain was deeply involved in the creation and expansion of Modus Media, which specialized in helping other companies relocate manufacturing facilities overseas:
“Modus Media grew rapidly. In December 1997, it announced it had contracted with Microsoft to produce software and training products at a center in Australia. Modus Media said it was already serving Microsoft from Asian locations in Singapore, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan and in Europe and the United States.
Two years later, Modus Media told the SEC it was performing outsource packaging and hardware assembly for IBM, Sun Microsystems, Hewlett-Packard Co. and Dell Computer Corp. The filing disclosed that Modus had operations on four continents, including Asian facilities in Singapore, Taiwan, China and South Korea, and European facilities in Ireland and France, and a center in Australia.
“Technology companies, in particular, have increasingly sought to outsource the business processes involved in their supply chains,” the filing said. “. . . We offer a range of services that provide our clients with a one-stop shop for their outsource requirements.”
According to a news release issued by Modus Media in 1997, its expansion of outsourcing services took place in close consultation with Bain. Terry Leahy, Modus’s chairman and chief executive, was quoted in the release as saying he would be “working closely with Bain on strategic expansion.” At the time, three Bain directors sat on the corporate board of Modus.”
For Mitt Romney the business person, such a record would be unremarkable. A lot of people have made a lot of money in the last 25 years by moving jobs offshore, and if Romney and Bain Capital were pioneers in the field, as the Post suggests, there was nothing unusual, illegal or even unethical in what they did. Speaking strictly in business terms, their job was to wring out inefficiencies and maximize shareholder profit in a global economy, not to protect the jobs of American workers, and as the Romney campaign likes to stress, they did their job very well and were well-rewarded for it.
For Romney the presidential candidate, however, the situation becomes more complicated. It’s one thing for Lee Raymond, then head of Exxon Mobil, to say that “I’m not a U.S. company and I don’t make decisions based on what’s good for the U.S.” In a business sense that may be understandable; in another sense it comes across as a grating reminder that the search for profit makes no allowance for national loyalty.
In Romney’s case, will an attitude that’s acceptable and perhaps even necessary in a modern business executive be equally acceptable in a person seeking to lead the country? For some Americans — especially those who have watched as their jobs were moved overseas — the details of how Romney achieved his remarkable financial success may turn out to matter a great deal.
– Jay Bookman
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598 comments Add your comment
Towncrier
June 22nd, 2012
11:36 am
“Companies don’t print money, they get it from their customers. The customers pay for EVERYTHING related to the business, and that includes taxes.”
How is that not plainly obvious to anyone?
getalife
June 22nd, 2012
11:36 am
Get reak,
The truth is not hate it is just the truth.
Why do you cons run away from the truth like cowards?
Mark in mid-town
June 22nd, 2012
11:37 am
Mitt Romney ran Bain from 1984 – 1999. I challenge anybody to point to a better 15 year period of job growth and wealth creation for the United States. Tens of millions of net new jobs were created during this time and new wealth creation went through the roof, and all segments of society benefitted greatly. The corrupt msm, in their transparent attempt to try to protect the current incompetent in the White House, is engaging in a not-so-subtle attempt to try and blame people such as Mitt Romney for the horrible state of the job market in the country today. I have no great love for Mitt Romney as a person, but he performed with incredible competence in the executive roles he’s occupied, and he was greatly respected by almost all of those who worked for him and with him.
Do
June 22nd, 2012
11:39 am
“guess Obama’s move worked”
Some will see it as pandering and probably will see a counter move from Romney. He’s cagier than McCain and has more cash.
EJ Moosa
June 22nd, 2012
11:39 am
Technically, corporations pay taxes on their profits, since most of the cost of doing business is deductible.
People, on the other hand, pay income taxes. Their cost of doing business is not deductible in most cases.
robert goulet
June 22nd, 2012
11:39 am
JamVet – A corporation increases the costs of its goods and services to cover what it will pay in taxes. Companies that want to make a profit must factor in ALL costs (manufacturing, shipping, marketing, overhead–including taxes!, etc.) into the price of its goods or services. Given the logic, individuals pay ALL taxes, corporate included, since the corporate tax burden is included in the price of the good or service. Understand?
josef
June 22nd, 2012
11:40 am
SFD
I caught it on the second go round without having to click, but when I did click, it came up as Animal Farm…
ST SIMON’s
Well, ain’t YOU special?
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
June 22nd, 2012
11:40 am
Mitt Romney ran Bain from 1984 – 1999.
Yep, most of them Bill Clinton’s years too…Old Bill sure did know how to run an economy, didn’t he?
Get Real
June 22nd, 2012
11:41 am
Get-a-Douche….your posts are always over the top and bordline insane, I suggest you get back on your meds and empty your drool cup
They BOTH suck
June 22nd, 2012
11:41 am
“I do believe the ethics of liberals tend to be more situational than for conservatives.”
Well you certainly have your right to your opinion. We will just agree to disagree on this issue.
I have met as many unscrupulous individuals who would call themselves conservative or right leaning as I have met center left and hard left individuals
Butch Cassidy
June 22nd, 2012
11:42 am
Mark in Midtown – “Mitt Romney ran Bain from 1984 – 1999. I challenge anybody to point to a better 15 year period of job growth and wealth creation for the United States. Tens of millions of net new jobs were created during this time and new wealth creation went through the roof, and all segments of society benefitted greatly. ”
So what your saying is that Mitt Romney is awesome when market conditions are at optimal performance. Won’t argue with that. We just want to know how good he is when economic conditions are in the crapper like they are now.
cloudodust
June 22nd, 2012
11:43 am
Insofar as American jobs going overseas, I’ no fan. Mitt Romney only played the game set in motion by our leadership in business and goverment. The fact that it continues today is one something that digs at my craw but I don’t blame him in this instance for trying to save companies or corporations, which was the primary function of Bane, thereby keep other Americans working for those same companies or corporations within our borders.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
June 22nd, 2012
11:43 am
Get Real
June 22nd, 2012
11:41 am
Chill, man…
They BOTH suck
June 22nd, 2012
11:43 am
TC
Heck, anyone who reads the posts on this blog, can see that those with selective condemnation and ethics are not monopolized by the left or right.
Peadawg
June 22nd, 2012
11:44 am
“Some will see it as pandering”
That’s exactly how I see. He bought the Latino vote with that short-term “solution”. I wonder how Latinos feel knowing they’re being used??
robert goulet
June 22nd, 2012
11:45 am
Apparently Washington Post “fact checked” their own information: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/4-pinocchios-for-obamas-newest-anti-romney-ad/2012/06/20/gJQAGux6qV_blog.html
Doesn’t look to good for Jay’s argument…
Bruno
June 22nd, 2012
11:45 am
He will nominate justices who will adhere to the Constitution and not “deconstruct” it;
TC–Of all the concerns you mentioned, I view the nomination of the SC judges as the most important given the length of time they serve and the wide-ranging impact their decisions often have. While I’m sure that the Libs here are ecstatic with Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan, let’s just say that I’m a tad underwhelmed.
Peadawg
June 22nd, 2012
11:46 am
““Mitt Romney ran Bain from 1984 – 1999. I challenge anybody to point to a better 15 year period of job growth and wealth creation for the United States. Tens of millions of net new jobs were created during this time and new wealth creation went through the roof, and all segments of society benefitted greatly. ”
What does Mitt Romney running Bain for 15 yrs have to do w/ tens of millions of jobs in the United States??? I’m missing the link I guess…..
Rightwing Troll
June 22nd, 2012
11:47 am
“Jay, as usual, you are nothing more than a shameless hack. No self-respecting journalist would stoop to the degrees you do to be a hack. But journalism is dead because it contains so few willing to actually engage in journalism. As I’ve pointed out in the past, the obvious reason you do this is you feel it’s what you have to do to stay employed in the corrupt msm. It’s a shame because you actually do have some talent, unlike many if not most of the other shameless hacks in the msm.”
Another rocket scientist steps up to the plate to deride an opinion editorial writer…
Journalism 101 son… reporters report, editorialists opine… I understand your confused and muddled state though, having mistaken Faux News, Drudge, and Brietbart editorialists as reporters all these years…
getalife
June 22nd, 2012
11:49 am
mark,
My manager from my only corporate job emailed me my words to upper management when they outsourced our jobs.
Everything I said turned out to be true.
Look at us now mark.
Towncrier
June 22nd, 2012
11:50 am
“I have met as many unscrupulous individuals who would call themselves conservative or right leaning as I have met center left and hard left individuals.”
That I do not doubt. I guess what I think is that the former, because they espouse a fixed moral code and don’t follow it, feel greater guilt (which they may suppress through various means like alcohol or staying busy) while the latter can more easily justify the transgressions of their code by modifying it so that there is no longer any variance.
getalife
June 22nd, 2012
11:50 am
get real,
Yeah, the truth hurts huh?
JamVet
June 22nd, 2012
11:51 am
And still people wonder how we got here…
Not the truly informed ones.
It has been forty plus years and numerous administrations in the making. Read the Powell Memorandum of 1971 (or don’t) and you’ll begin to see the decline of we the people’s rightful sovereignty in this republic.
And the take over this nation by BIG business.
And you fake conservatives have simply cowered to those power brokers. And talked yourselves into giving up YOUR sacred role as the supreme and independent power or authority in government in this country to the “monied interests” as Jefferson called them.
To the point now, where your depraved candidate says gleefully, “Corporations are people, my friend.”
And amazingly and even more inexplicably, YOU do THEIR bidding for them.
What a friggin’ mess…
Rightwing Troll
June 22nd, 2012
11:51 am
“While I’m sure that the Libs here are ecstatic with Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan, let’s just say that I’m a tad underwhelmed.”
That’s funny considering how overtly political the conservative member of the SCOTUS are and how just recently these bastions of liberalism you deride have been part of majority decisions siding with conservative causes… can you give us any examples of Roberts, Long Dong Thomas, or Duck Hunting Scalia siding with liberal justices on liberal causes?
josef
June 22nd, 2012
11:53 am
GET REAL
Really, Mec, who put thumbtacks in your Cheerios this a.m. Plumb nasty tempered, aintcha?
stands for decibels
June 22nd, 2012
11:54 am
If you haven’t read it in many years…
http://www.george-orwell.org/Animal_Farm/0.html
Joe Hussein Mama
June 22nd, 2012
11:54 am
Towncrier — “the latter can more easily justify the transgressions of their code by modifying it so that there is no longer any variance.”
A baseless canard; I’ve seen it used against atheists and political liberals and it’s not applicable to either one, IMO.
They BOTH suck
June 22nd, 2012
11:55 am
TC @ 11:50
Thanks again for the reply. I lean left but not as steadfast in the black and white as it appears you might be on this issue. I could be wrong on that so I mean no offense, hard to always convey a clear message on a blog. I tend to see people’s thinking as having much more than just the left / right paradigm that plays out in much of our politics and of course on here.
Again, we will just have to agree to disagree.
No problem. Thanks for the exchange.
JamVet
June 22nd, 2012
11:56 am
rg, if you want the scofflaws to pay no taxes, why not allow them to pay for nothing at all?
No salaries, no costs of goods, no utility payments, nothing.
That way you can pick up their share of the tab to run this country.
Perverted neoliberal capitalism…
Rightwing Troll
June 22nd, 2012
11:56 am
Forgive them josef,
the economy’s up and gas prices are down… they’re all worked up into a hissy because their basest fantasies are proving to be false…
josef
June 22nd, 2012
11:57 am
BRUNO
My jury’s out on both Sotomayor and Kagan…we’ll see. I would have to agree on “I was underwhelmed” but probably for different reasons than you…
Z
June 22nd, 2012
11:57 am
I don’t think anyone who hides their money offshore so they don’t have to pay taxes on that money should be allowed to run for any political office let alone the President of the United States. Romney shipping jobs offshore, disgusting, some Patriot he is!
Madmax
June 22nd, 2012
11:58 am
If a company with 10,000 employees goes out of business because they can’t compete, we lose 10,000+ jobs (the plus is the ripple effect of the jobs lost servicing that company and their employees). If I move 1000 of those jobs offshore for a call center, then I only lose 1000+ jobs. Which is more devastating? As a partner of mine once said when we were discussing dropping our rates to get some business, “you can’t eat pride”
HOT AIR
June 22nd, 2012
11:58 am
Grits – You are the “sissy ‘ cause it take one to know one and it’s time you came out of your hateful closet. You call others sissy when you don’t have the balls to admit Obama is openly violating laws that don’t suit him. You are a lemming for Obama and your law breaker is going down faster than this economic disaster he has created.
Towncrier
June 22nd, 2012
11:58 am
“Journalism 101 son… reporters report, editorialists opine… I understand your confused and muddled state though, having mistaken Faux News, Drudge, and Brietbart editorialists as reporters all these years…”
Not the most clear-headed assertion I have ever seen. Not all Fox News journalists editorialize (just like not all ABC, CNN and MSNBC journalists simply report); and the Drudge report editorializes in its headlines mostly (which link to other news sites). I could easily produce many instances of “mainstream” journalists editorializing but, since they are very easy to find, I will leave that bit of work to you.
Rightwing Troll
June 22nd, 2012
11:58 am
At least Obama didn’t nominate his cleaning lady for Chief Justice of the SCOTUS…
ken
June 22nd, 2012
11:58 am
And what did Obama run ??????????????????????? NADA , and he continues to run nothing .
ken
June 22nd, 2012
11:58 am
And what did Obama run ??????????????????????? NADA , and he continues to run nothing .
Moderate Line
June 22nd, 2012
12:00 pm
TaxPayer
June 22nd, 2012
8:16 am
For a moderate line, click
+++
And your point is what? I believe in my post I stated that ALL politicians exaggerate their own accomplishments and distort the record of their opponent. In fact one of the links I posted indicates clearly that Romney did not create jobs at Bain. My point is the posting by Jay are simply advertisements for Obama campaign. They should actually have a disclaimer on them.
I am a moderate if you want to win my vote you need to have a better approach.
Rightwing Troll
June 22nd, 2012
12:01 pm
Towncrier… you are correct… I was just having a bit of fun… I often watch Fox, Shep seems to tell the truth a good bit… Greta ain’t too bad, and I’m a big fan of O’Rielly, don’t always agree with him, but I like him…
Mark in mid-town
June 22nd, 2012
12:02 pm
I bring up how well the U.S. economy did during the 15 years Romney ran Bain to point out that business executives such as Romney were helping the economy greatly improve in the aggregate. They contributed to there to be great aggregate job creation, not the job destruction that msm hacks are trying to blame people such as Romney for. The best of this 15 year period was under Clinton, though plenty good under reagan as well. Regardless, for all intents and purposes, Clinton actually operated under more Reagan inspired supply-side economics than was in place for most of Reagan’s presidency.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 22nd, 2012
12:03 pm
H. Air — “You call others sissy when you don’t have the balls to admit Obama is openly violating laws that don’t suit him.”
I’m interested in hearing exactly which laws the President supposedly violated, and precisely how he supposedly violated them.
getalife
June 22nd, 2012
12:05 pm
Did the gop cut spending cons?
They ran on jobs, so where are the jobs cons?
You never hold your party accountable for their actions cons.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 22nd, 2012
12:06 pm
Mark — “I bring up how well the U.S. economy did during the 15 years Romney ran Bain to point out that business executives such as Romney were helping the economy greatly improve in the aggregate. They contributed to there to be great aggregate job creation, not the job destruction that msm hacks are trying to blame people such as Romney for.”
If Bain didn’t actually *create* any jobs, but merely discontinued some, saved some and shipped others overseas, then how, exactly, did they contribute in any *positive* way to “aggregate job creation?”
Simply being in business during that time does not strike me as being sufficient cause to take any credit whatsoever for creating jobs, particularly when your company’s activities caused a net *negative* to raw employment numbers.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 22nd, 2012
12:09 pm
“Jose” Hussein Mama:
Agree to disagree where we disagree.
Agree to agree where we agree.
The bottom line is that illegals (documented or not) are taking hundreds of thousands of jobs from Americans and LEGAL immigrants especially entry level positions, teenager part-time jobs and college part-time jobs.
Just look at the jobless rate for American teenagers alone (not to mention teenage African Americans). Those jobs should go to them FIRST !
UNCLE SAMANTHA
June 22nd, 2012
12:09 pm
and all the hippocritical liberals wail and whine using their APPLE products all made in CHINA to post their blubberings
what a joke
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 22nd, 2012
12:09 pm
Anyone heard from “Kamchuck” ???
I’m worried about him.
Oblama
June 22nd, 2012
12:10 pm
Major banks world wide and here in the States are downgrade once again. The impending disaster of 2013 that I forecast is taking place before your eyes. Go ahead – follow Obama like a lemming over the cliff to your doom and I don’t want to hear you blame anyone but yourself for voting for this socialist.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 22nd, 2012
12:11 pm
Joe Hussein Mama:
P.S.
I like your idea about a national (counterfeit resistant) ID card.
Stevie Ray
June 22nd, 2012
12:11 pm
JOE HUSSEIN,
Sorry I missed your 10:50 post. In response the domestic quote for providing the steel work for Bay Bridge was double the $400 million they are paying. All work done in CA will be done by union shops domestically. Also, NY has contracted similar steel works for a bridge, commuter train platform and subway upgrades…what i hear you saying is that you’d rather pay $80K (Tesla perhaps) for a domestic automobile than $40k….or perhaps you are suggesting these bridges et al are likely to fall down…isolationism isn’t the answer.
Stevie Ray
June 22nd, 2012
12:13 pm
MADMAX,
Couldn’t agree more…as usual, the clowns on the left are penny-wise and pound foolish when it comes to spending cash or understanding business…..almost as foolish as the jokers on the right when it comes to women’s rights and guns…
carlosgvv
June 22nd, 2012
12:13 pm
“the search for profit makes no allowance for national loyalty”
Perhaps someone here would like to explain to me why modern business executives should get a free pass when it comes to national loyalty. I thought national loyalty was a requirement for all Americans. As for profit, they don’t have to move overseas for that. They can make a good profit by keeping jobs here in America. Of course, they can make MORE money by going overseas. So, they become totally unpatriotic and loyal only to money. And you Republicans actually want someone like this for your next President?
They BOTH suck
June 22nd, 2012
12:13 pm
“The bottom line is that illegals (documented or not) are taking hundreds of thousands of jobs from Americans and LEGAL immigrants especially entry level positions, teenager part-time jobs and college part-time jobs. ”
I know you have stated that business who hire them should be fined heavily, however an illegal can only “take” a job that has been offered.
It’s that supply and demand thing……….
They BOTH suck
June 22nd, 2012
12:15 pm
Oblama
Since part of the problem is WORLD WIDE and not just domestic, what exactly is Romney going to do?
Southern Pride
June 22nd, 2012
12:17 pm
So it was Romney who sent all those jobs to China, huh? I wondered who it was, and now I know. That puts him a little below Obama on the jobs scale, then, as Obama hasn’t really created any jobs at all, for Chinese or Americans.
Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people
June 22nd, 2012
12:17 pm
Time to outsource the current president
Towncrier
June 22nd, 2012
12:18 pm
“TC–Of all the concerns you mentioned, I view the nomination of the SC judges as the most important given the length of time they serve and the wide-ranging impact their decisions often have. While I’m sure that the Libs here are ecstatic with Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan, let’s just say that I’m a tad underwhelmed.”
Indeed, the nomination of SC judges is one of the most critical and overlooked roles of a president. There is a school of thought within the SCOTUS that considers the Constitution a “living” document whose meaning changes over time in an evolving culture. In my view, that is an extremely dangerous position to take as it makes the interpreters of the documents co-authors of it. The Constitution is a legal contract and, as far as I know, no other legal contract is interpreted that way.
There was a school of textual interpretation that was popular in the 80s and 90s called deconstructionism whereby meaning resides in the reader as much as in the document itself. I firmly believe that the true meaning of a text resides solely in the intent of its authors (in this case the drafters and ratifiers of the Constitution). This can make it hard to interpret historical texts whose authors we can no longer consult.
Happily, the Constitution is perhaps one of the best documented pieces of literature in all of history. We are able to know with reasonable certainty the intent lying behind most of what it says by consulting the various things written by its authors and ratifiers. This is necessary because the Constitution represents a standard. You don’t see engineers modifying approved design documents as they see fit when producing something; those design documents are not “living” and changeable (except through a rigorous process). And it is the Congress and states that now are authorized to revise the Constitution – not the SCOTUS.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 22nd, 2012
12:18 pm
Any Roman Catholics on here ??
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd
JamVet
June 22nd, 2012
12:19 pm
The best of this 15 year period was under Clinton, though plenty good under reagan as well.
Nonsense.
Stacking more cards on a house of cards want not plenty good.
By every measure, we have been losing ground for decades. In terms of buying power, in terms of financial stability and security and in terms of our future prospects.
What is it going to take for you insanely short sighted apologists for the failed status quo to finally understand that what you desperately want to believe in is nothing but smoke and mirrors?
Another Great Depression?
Keep it up, you almost got your wish in 2008…
They BOTH suck
June 22nd, 2012
12:19 pm
Oblama
Just so you know, I don’t think the US economy is coming out of this funk for several years with Romney or Obama in the WH
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 22nd, 2012
12:20 pm
They BOTH suck :
True ………… which is why we must deal with the “demand” part of it as well.
I assume you agree that any open job out there should go to an American citizen before an illegal alien ?
TaxPayer
June 22nd, 2012
12:21 pm
Moderate line,
That right wing stuff you linked to just needed some moderation so I gave you some via politifact. That’s all.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 22nd, 2012
12:22 pm
0311 — “Agree to disagree where we disagree. Agree to agree where we agree.”
Fine. However, you’re still wrong on a number of facts regarding immigration. I am willing to discuss this topic with you politely, but I think you need to admit to yourself that you’re trying to make political points when NEITHER side has any kind of moral high ground on the issue of employment where illegosos are concerned.
“The bottom line is that illegals (documented or not) are taking hundreds of thousands of jobs from Americans and LEGAL immigrants especially entry level positions, teenager part-time jobs and college part-time jobs.”
Deflection. Moving the goalposts. This is what you originally said:
“Obama has done more to take jobs away from Americans with his illegal immigrant policy”
I asked you how he was doing that, and away you went, saying “Uh ………….. because …………… they take jobs that many UNEMPLOYED Americans could take.”
However, that’s been the case since LONG BEFORE Obama became President.
Have the courage of your convictions, sir, and man up when asked a question. Strap on a pair and answer me directly. How, exactly, has Obama “done more to take jobs away from Americans with his illegal immigrant policy” than any other recent President?
“Just look at the jobless rate for American teenagers alone (not to mention teenage African Americans). Those jobs should go to them FIRST !”
A point with which I have not argued. However, I’d like to know the specifics behind your obloquy against *President Obama* in this regard. What policy or policies of his, precisely, have “done more to take jobs away from Americans” than those of any other recent President? Please be specific.
In case you haven’t figured it out, 0311, I don’t dislike you, but I do think you’re making wild-eyed, unsupportable claims about the President, and I’m holding your feet to the fire and demanding an answer. If you don’t WANT to answer, fine — man up and say so. If you can have the strength of character to say something like ‘I don’t want to answer that question,’ then I have the strength of character to say ‘okay’ and let it go. But don’t throw me a bunch of deflecty bulldada and expect me to fall for it. Man, that’s like red meat to me, and I’ve got your scent now.
Once again, I’d like a polite and on-point reply to this question. How, exactly, has Obama “done more to take jobs away from Americans with his illegal immigrant policy” than any other recent President?
Jm-pass TSPLOST silly people
June 22nd, 2012
12:22 pm
Where’s sooth?!
I see aliens are now the topic.
Moderate Line
June 22nd, 2012
12:23 pm
Rightwing Troll
June 22nd, 2012
11:47 am
“Jay, as usual, you are nothing more than a shameless hack. No self-respecting journalist would stoop to the degrees you do to be a hack. But journalism is dead because it contains so few willing to actually engage in journalism. As I’ve pointed out in the past, the obvious reason you do this is you feel it’s what you have to do to stay employed in the corrupt msm. It’s a shame because you actually do have some talent, unlike many if not most of the other shameless hacks in the msm.”
Another rocket scientist steps up to the plate to deride an opinion editorial writer…
Journalism 101 son… reporters report, editorialists opine… I understand your confused and muddled state though, having mistaken Faux News, Drudge, and Brietbart editorialists as reporters all these years..
++++
Blogging 101 son …bloggers state their own opinion and do not have worry about someone standards of journalism. If you don’t agree with it then so be it. However, if Jay appears to be hack for Obama then his opinion does not have as much affect as if he was total unbiased. Walter Cronkite was biased but he was much more effective because he did not appear to be biased. I respect Jay straightforward honesty about his bias but once it is revealed his articles become less persuasive Also, his complete devotion of his articles to Obama’s reelection makes his posting of little value to someone like myself who has yet to determine who I am voting for. If Newt or Rick Sanatorium was nominated I would be definitely in Obama’s corner but it seems Romney putting heat on Obama has brought out a side of him I never seen before. I have moved from not considering voting for Romney to considering voting for Romney. Not because Romney looks better but because Obama looks worse.
JamVet
June 22nd, 2012
12:23 pm
I assume you agree that any open job out there should go to an American citizen before an
illegal alienIndian, Chinese, Filipino, etc ?“I like firing people”.
Your presumptive candidate with his plan for you guppies…
Joe Hussein Mama
June 22nd, 2012
12:23 pm
0311 — “P.S. I like your idea about a national (counterfeit resistant) ID card.”
Good. Thank you!
You see, we CAN find common ground on this. It just takes some effort.
HOT AIR
June 22nd, 2012
12:26 pm
Mama – Immigration Law, Right to Marriage Law, Campaign Finance Law, Civil Rights Law, Confidential Information Act, leaking top secret information, – He has the King Roy Barnes syndrome. …… he’s above the law.
Bruno
June 22nd, 2012
12:26 pm
That’s funny considering how overtly political the conservative member of the SCOTUS are and how just recently these bastions of liberalism you deride have been part of majority decisions siding with conservative causes… can you give us any examples of Roberts, Long Dong Thomas, or Duck Hunting Scalia siding with liberal justices on liberal causes?
Care to elaborate on your “overtly political” charge?? There’s only one metric by which I judge SCOTUS decisions: Is it Constitutional or not?? While no “major” SCOTUS decisions have been rendered yet in the Obama era, I have no doubt which way Kagan and Sotomayor are going to vote re: the constitutionality of the insurance mandate. If the Commerce Clause is turned into an “anything goes” legal option, there will be no effective limit on the government’s power.
My jury’s out on both Sotomayor and Kagan…we’ll see. I would have to agree on “I was underwhelmed” but probably for different reasons than you…
OK, Alexander Hamilton Breath…..
saywhat?
June 22nd, 2012
12:26 pm
The Romney/Ryan plan for the economy would result in a $1300 tax increase on those making $75k to $100K, and $2600 tax increase on those making $100-200K, but a tax decrease of $285,000 on those making > $1,000,000.
That ought to stimulate the economy right back to 2008.
They BOTH suck
June 22nd, 2012
12:27 pm
Scout
Simply put, yes, however it is much more complicated than that.
We encouraged them to come here now want to $hit on them when the times get tough. So much for the moral compass of the world. When I say “we”, I mean those who have profited from them as well as politicians in both parties who looked the other way.
I’m for tightening the boarders and allowing one’s here to have some sort of work permit: how many yrs is a good question that I really don’t have the answer.
Allow so much time for the permits to be distributed and fine the heck out of businesses who are caught employing people who do not have the proper credentials.
No offense, but the majority are not going home. The numbers are down due to the economy as much as any new laws that have been implemented. When the economy picks back up, many will be looking to maximize profits and will be hiring them again….. and they will come.
barking frog
June 22nd, 2012
12:27 pm
0311, JHM
instead of a national i.d.
card how about a bar code
tattoo on the back of your
hand?
UNCLE SAMANTHA
June 22nd, 2012
12:28 pm
POOR JAMVET
cant get his context in context
give me the full context of “i like firing people”?
either your too dumb to understand it or too liberal and want to mislead with it
Towncrier
June 22nd, 2012
12:28 pm
Rightwing Troll
“…and I’m a big fan of O’Rielly, don’t always agree with him, but I like him…”
I used to like him a lot more; his show is too sappy now. What I liked about him before was that he was like a bulldog in going after some injustices (like the Red Cross not dispensing relief funds to 9/11 victims for over a year after it had collected millions for that purpose and forcing the RC president to resign). He’s opinionated and arrogant and I agree with more of what he says than not. But I hardly ever watch his show now.
They BOTH suck
June 22nd, 2012
12:29 pm
Scout
Have to go to a meeting. Thanks for the exchange.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 22nd, 2012
12:29 pm
S, Ray — “Sorry I missed your 10:50 post. In response the domestic quote for providing the steel work for Bay Bridge was double the $400 million they are paying. All work done in CA will be done by union shops domestically. Also, NY has contracted similar steel works for a bridge, commuter train platform and subway upgrades…what i hear you saying is that you’d rather pay $80K (Tesla perhaps) for a domestic automobile than $40k….”
Can you show me an imported equivalent to a Tesla Roadster that costs only $40K? AFAIK, no such animal exists (and my wife and I really WANT a Tesla Roadster).
“or perhaps you are suggesting these bridges et al are likely to fall down…isolationism isn’t the answer.”
I haven’t suggested isolationalism. I’ve suggested tax breaks for companies who keep all or most of their employees and facilities in the US, and reduced tax breaks (or none at all) from companies primarily or wholly overseas. I think our tax policy should reward job creation and maintenance in the US, and (not punish, but) *refrain* from rewarding those companies that don’t do that.
Want to move 20% of your headcount overseas? Fine. 20% of your tax breaks are going away in your next tax filing.
This sort of policy can *incent* companies to create domestic jobs, and helps level the playing field for American workers.
ty webb
June 22nd, 2012
12:29 pm
yeah, why couldn’t he just’ve “organized” communities?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 22nd, 2012
12:32 pm
Joe Hussein Mama:
Thank you ……………. I know your background and therefore I “defer” to you on some “technical” aspects.
However, surely you realize that Obama’s policies are only making the issue worse by giving illegals the desire to stay, etc., etc., etc. TOTALLY sealing the borders is impossible and mass deportation is NOT going to happen but making it totally undesirable for illegals to want to stay here is very much doable. We must decrease and eventually take away all of the perks that make illegals want to stay here !
In my opinion it’s Obama that has made this political …………. not me ………….
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 22nd, 2012
12:33 pm
They BOTH suck:
You’re welcome. Thank you.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 22nd, 2012
12:34 pm
H. Air — “Mama – Immigration Law, Right to Marriage Law, Campaign Finance Law, Civil Rights Law, Confidential Information Act, leaking top secret information, – He has the King Roy Barnes syndrome. …… he’s above the law.”
I also asked you to tell me *how* he was violating them. Let’s just start with the first one you listed; Immigration law. How, precisely, has he violated that?
I’m going to ask for specifics, so please bear that in mind. I understand that you’re displeased with the President, but I’m going to press you on specifics, not on your upset.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 22nd, 2012
12:34 pm
barking frog:
666 !
gm
June 22nd, 2012
12:34 pm
Willard and the fake CEO’s are whats wrong with America, they go around the country saying slogans like puting Americans back to work and has sent millions of jobs over seas, and they can stand in front of middle class Americans with a straight face knowing you have right wing idiots who could care less.
Sorry I would take Obama any day who has saved millions of teachers and fireman, police officers jobs that is the middle class, please right wing nut jobs, tell me how many middle class jobs has Willard saved? I thought so””’
josef
June 22nd, 2012
12:35 pm
BRUNO
Alexander Hamilton? That was just plumb over the line. I’m gonna have to call in the Imam on that one..ad hominem attacking…
USMC
June 22nd, 2012
12:36 pm
The other side of OBAMA’s success:
Obama’s pick for NLRB was top lawyer for union tainted by mob ties, history of corruption
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/22/obama-pick-for-nlrb-union-tainted-by-mob-ties-criminal-past/#ixzz1yXadwkdV
Joe Hussein Mama
June 22nd, 2012
12:37 pm
B. Frog — “0311, JHM
instead of a national i.d.
card how about a bar code
tattoo on the back of your
hand?”
I saw a guy at DragonCon some years ago with a barcode tat on his bicep. I asked him about it, and he said it was his name, encoded into a specific barcode font.
For those of you who didn’t know, barcodes are essentially just alternate printer fonts; you can actually load them into your PC and render alphanumeric plaintext into barcode if you’re so inclined.
OBLAMA
June 22nd, 2012
12:37 pm
SUX – We are not in a “funk”. This is the cliff that the Obama lemmings are going over to the depression of 2013. Moodys has downgraded the major banks again.Obama has no workable plan to slow down this alarming Fed debt. Three + years and all we get is run away flooding of the markets by the treasury which will lead to runaway inflation. Obama is a puppet for the socialist left. The U.S. Credit Card is maxed out and soon to be denied. Meanwhile Obama spends his time on “gay marriage”.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 22nd, 2012
12:40 pm
Joe Hussein Mama:
There are a number of folks out there who know a lot more about this than you and I combined X100. Here is but one:
“In point of fact, Congress did act—it acted decisively to vote down both the DREAM Act and Comprehensive Immigration Reform, legislation that was, in the view of those elected representatives who voted against those bills, not in the best interests of our nation or our citizens.
Under our Constitution the Congress represents the will of the people. It would certainly appear that the administration is acting to circumvent the immigration laws that Congress would not amend or alter.”
Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2012/06/17/obama-invokes-prosecutorial-discretion-to-circumvent-constitution-and-congress/#ixzz1yXbdfaxj
Towncrier
June 22nd, 2012
12:40 pm
“Alexander Hamilton? That was just plumb over the line. I’m gonna have to call in the Imam on that one..ad hominem attacking…”
Indeed, josef, as he was arguably the first one (despite being one of the main authors of the Federalist Papers and violating what he said therein) to subvert the Constitution by establishing a national bank – a power not enumerated in that document.
USMC
June 22nd, 2012
12:40 pm
“With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations [of immigrants brought here illegally as children] through executive order, that’s just not the case, because there are laws on the books that Congress has passed.”– Comrade Obama 2011
Obama’s amnesty-by-fiat: Naked lawlessness
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-obamas-amnesty-by-fiat–naked-lawlessness/2012/06/21/gJQAa5PltV_story.html?hpid=z2
josef
June 22nd, 2012
12:41 pm
Attacking the Obama administration on the illegal alien thingie is about the funniest thing the two-steppers on the right have come up with (with the notable exception that fast and furious was designed to attack to 2nd amendment). The current regime has deported more illegal aliens than any of the previous administrations and his most recent directive is a GOP proposed action…and to date he certainly is waaaaayyyy more conservative that Reagan…
Silly people….
And HOT AIR…what’s a “sissy?” Is there something wrong with that?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 22nd, 2012
12:42 pm
josef:
Don’t think I heard back from you on this one:
“Jump in? My whole point on it all, is why was it ever brought up to begin with.Put another way, if he got his BJ at home, would that be different? Well, he WAS at home…he just happened to be living at 1600…”
And you would be wrong. Parts of the main building are the president’s residence. The West Wing is federal office space ………….. and in any case ………. it was with a subordinate employee under his chain of command.
Now I ask again.
Should a president be held to a higher, equal or a lesser standard that those who work for him/her?
P.S.
Wish you had been here last night ……… Kamchuck was very ugly to me (sniff, sniff) and hurt my feelings.
josef
June 22nd, 2012
12:44 pm
BRUNO
Hamilton had deep psychological problems stemming back from early childhood…
Michael
June 22nd, 2012
12:44 pm
Mitt Re:Money is a republican and shares many qualities of previous republican presidents – lower taxes and less regulation. As such, Re:Money also shares the risk of damaging the value of the overall stock market. The Bush crash was about 50%, the Reagan crash was about 25%, and the Hoover crash was 80-90%. We can therefore project a market crash of about 50% if Re:Money is elected president.
Using the same historical information about financial crises and bailouts yields the following the elections of those presidents, we find that the Bush Financial Crisis collapsed insurance companies and banks and required a bailout of $800 Billion; the Reagan Savings and Loan Crisis bankrupted the industry and its insurance fund and required a bailout of $80 Billion. The Hoover Financial Crisis saw bank failures peak at 2,300 per year and led to the Great Depression. Since the big banks have gotten bigger, and each crisis seems to be 10X the size of the last one, we can project a financial crisis of $8 Trillion during a term of Re:Money.
TaxPayer
June 22nd, 2012
12:45 pm
“If you elect me, I promise to give myself another big tax cut just to show my appreciation.” – Mitt
Towncrier
June 22nd, 2012
12:45 pm
Scout @12:40
Thanks for that link – an interesting read.
josef
June 22nd, 2012
12:46 pm
SCOUT
I didn’t miss it. I just didn’t respond. Lots of us have home offices. His address is 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Period. And, well, it IS all federal property…
Unhinged Impotent Rage with a dash of Obama Derangement Syndrome
June 22nd, 2012
12:46 pm
even Rmoney’s etch-a-sketch was outsourced to China.
Mr_B
June 22nd, 2012
12:46 pm
” I don’t blame him in this instance for trying to save companies or corporations, which was the PRIMARY function of Bane (sic),” (my emphasis)
The PRIMARY function of Bain Capital was to make money for Mitt Romney and the other investors. Anything else was simply a means to that end. It might involve saving a company, or it might involve dismembering one. Either way, the only object of the game was to make money.
HOT AIR
June 22nd, 2012
12:46 pm
MAMA – That will come out in Obama’s impeachment trial – providing he is reelected. I don’t think he will be. Obama is aiding and abetting illegals …….. I don’t care where they come from. If they are illegal he took a sworn oath to enforce the laws of this country and he is ignoring the laws . A small example of this is his allowing students to remain in schools here illegally. He has instructed the law enforcers to ignore the laws on the books. That’s illegal.
Madmax
June 22nd, 2012
12:47 pm
Joe Hussain – but wouldn’t national ID cards disenfranchise the poor. I mean how on earth are they going to get them if they can’t get a picture ID now.