A lot of baloney flying fast and furious
As previously noted, the “Fast and Furious” program run by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the U.S. attorney in Arizona was a badly conceived operation made worse by incompetent leadership. It began as an effort to track the illegal flow of guns from U.S. gun shops across the border to Mexican drug cartels, with the hope of using the information to break up those cartels, and in the end it may have contributed to scores of deaths, including the death of a U.S. Border Patrol officer.
Nobody — with the exception of some who were directly involved — disputes that it was a bad idea gone wrong. And as a result, most of those in the ATF and the U.S. attorney’s office in Arizona who planned and led the effort have been fired or reassigned.
So what’s the controversy in Washington all about? Republicans have two working theories about Fast and Furious, and through the House Government Oversight Committee are attempting to find evidence to support those pet theories. But so far, despite having subpoenaed a veritable haystack of documents from the Justice Department, they have been unable to find the needle that they seek.
The response to that failure has been to demand still more haystacks to search. Committee Chairman Darrell Issa insists that the Justice Department release thousands of additional documents that go right to the core of ongoing criminal investigations in the case, even though as a matter of law and practice such documents are considered exempt from congressional subpoena.
Attorney General Eric Holder, backed by President Obama, has refused to release those documents, which is why he is now in danger of joining a long list of officials in both parties to have been held in contempt of Congress over the years.
Issa and his colleagues believe that somewhere, documents exist that will show that Holder and others at high levels in the Obama administration helped to plan and execute Fast and Furious, although again, there’s no evidence that is true. But what really drives the investigation is a deeply held conviction among many conservatives that instead of being an effort to track guns back to the drug cartels and then arrest cartel leadership, Fast and Furious was a government plot intended to make guns look bad and to build public support for undercutting the Second Amendment.
Here’s how Rush Limbaugh explained it to the faithful yesterday:
“Now, we all know what the purpose of this was. The purpose of this was to gin up anti-Amendment 2 sentiment among the people of this country. The objective was — and this is where the irony steps in — the objective was to have news stories where everybody was shocked and stunned and saddened, guns purchased by drug cartel members in America. Look how easy it was, end up in Mexico, owned by violent drug gangs, and used in the commission of heinous crimes. Why, our gun laws are too lax. The sentiment in this country among the people is to maintain the Second Amendment. The America people don’t want, by a vast majority, any gun control legislation. But that doesn’t matter to people like President Kardashian or Eric Holder or any of the Democrat Party or the left.
They don’t want you to have guns, and so it doesn’t matter about the Constitution and it doesn’t matter about the will of the American people. If they don’t want you to have guns they’re gonna try to find a way to make sure that you don’t. And that’s what Fast and Furious was, as simply put as I can make it.”
The theory has no more basis in fact than do claims that Obama is a Kenyan plant or that he intends to confiscate all firearms in private hands. It also ignores the reality that the Bush administration had run similar if smaller scale operations, and that Fast and Furious — botched though it was — was simply an extension of those previous programs.
Unfortunately, these days a story with a basis in fact is much less valuable than a bogus story line that gets people stirred up and angry, certain that their country is being stolen from them as they watch.
– Jay Bookman
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609 comments Add your comment
Brosephus™
June 21st, 2012
11:57 am
There have been changes to the AJC that makes it somewhat more acceptable to conservatives, but as long as Luckovich is the guy the image won’t change. He needs to move on just as did Tucker. A compromise would be a Conservative cartoon each day of the week and on-line and/or him opening his post to comments.
The AJC is a private company. If you don’t like the product, you don’t have to read/purchase it. If there’s such a demand for a conservative newspaper, the free market will provide the supply to meet the demand. You do believe in allowing the market to handle things, or are you suggesting some kind of outside interference in the operations of a private company?
1811/0311
June 21st, 2012
11:57 am
TRANSPARENCY !!!
Billybob
June 21st, 2012
11:57 am
time to go back and produce the tax money that obama wants to redistribute through central gov’t planning anc socialism…..nov buries the dem party led by the leftists for a decade……good times
Adam
June 21st, 2012
11:57 am
You would think Jay would want to talk about all the dismal economic data coming out this week
You would think Fox News would be talking about that instead of about Eric Holder and the supposed “THEY’RE COMING FOR OUR GUNS” thing that is repeatedly hammered in whatever way possible.
ByteMe - Political thug
June 21st, 2012
11:57 am
“If the A G is so innocent like Jay makes it appear, why did he lie to congress?”
Good question.
What lie are you referring to? The memo where he stated one thing and then told Congress pretty soon after that the memo might be completely wrong that he hadn’t been given all the facts… and then eventually told Congress to disregard the memo that other information was coming to light and that information was this other thing? That “lie”?
Soothsayer
June 21st, 2012
11:57 am
Oh BTW, crude oil has just broken through the $80/bbl price support and is trading around $79/bbl.
Gasoline is trading around $2.60/ga which generally translates to $3.10/gal at the pump.
ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT
June 21st, 2012
11:58 am
EXCECUTIVE POWER IN YOUR FACE. GOP LOSERS.
josef
June 21st, 2012
11:58 am
I like Luckowich myself, but I do agree that he should have comments. He is on the editorial page. He should be held to the same standard as the other editorial commentators such as our Imam and Kyle…it’s a double standard and I don’t much care for double standards…
GT
June 21st, 2012
11:59 am
The technique by Rush Limbaugh is to put a right extremist mind into the body of Obama and make the conservative paranoid logic part of the president’s thinking. Like a bank robber thinking any person hanging out in a bank parking lot is casing the joint. The president is after your guns, the other president, our president was after the bad guys. We had good intent and he took that intent and made it into a cause against guns.
In Limbaugh logic Bush and Republican may have championed the drug wars as a excuse to have guns to protect ourselves from these thugs. They may have let 9/11 happen to dope the population with fear that equates to career saving votes in a second term for a not so popular president who is going down historically as one of our worse.
The Mexican government is a weak operation. They let us down on tracing the guns. No excuse on our part it was a sorry operation one of the few from Obama but business as usual for Bush who created it.
Maybe we don’t want a corrupt government in Mexico who allowed this to happen, seeing how we operate towards them. The drug violence is our creation, one law legalizing drugs and it stops. What is not controllable is the access of that border to terrorist. Who is our think tank and how do they operate. Give most intelligent people this information and they will figure a way to beat the system and cause great harm in this country. Republicans don’t care. Maybe they are hoping to have it happen if Romney does beat Obama and then has to walk the walk as president. Just about the time the world figures out ,what some of us have known the whole time, this guy is a fool, the attacks come from compromised information gathered listening to the hearings. Romney could blame this on the previous administration and cast fear in the population so his “do nothing policies” can be continued for 8 years. His private sector friends grow large off government milk building a homeland security. Lord how do these people lived this paranoid it is killing me after 10 minutes.
Fly-On-The-Wall
June 21st, 2012
11:59 am
Soothsayer,
It’s all Obama’s fault.
ByteMe - Political thug
June 21st, 2012
11:59 am
Oh BTW, crude oil has just broken through the $80/bbl price support and is trading around $79/bbl.
$5 GAS!!!!!!
It’s so sad what some people think.
Adam
June 21st, 2012
11:59 am
Most of the argument here boils down to “When a Republican is in power, I want him to have all the power. When it’s a Democrat, he needs checks and balances, but the part of the government run by Republicans at the same time does not need any such check and balance.”
JamVet
June 21st, 2012
12:00 pm
Enter your comments here
Peter
June 21st, 2012
12:00 pm
I remember when Obama was elected.there was a run on guns and ammo because the thinking out there in the minds of the right was Obama was going to stop the sale of guns. Of course the loudest idiot for the right is going to keep that alive…Rush maintains his Baloney. and the Right still listen.
Remember Bin Laden was working with Saddam, and a percentage of the right still believe Cheney’s lie to this day.
Lemmings do line up for the jump !
stands for decibels
June 21st, 2012
12:00 pm
Interesting “11th Dimension Chess” take on this.
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/fast-furious-investigation-hurt-gop-article-1.1099788
Looking like it’s stonewalling on what happened with regard to internal communications about Fast and Furious indeed makes the Department of Justice look bad. Appearing as if it’s involved in a cover-up is even worse. But baiting Republicans to talk about an issue — gun “walking” — that is complex and not a major issue for swing voters could be a masterful political strategy.
Obama would rather be fighting with the GOP over gun rights for the next few months than the economy — he wants to talk about anything but the economy. The optics of Republicans howling about the Second Amendment are far better for him than a fight on his fumbling of the fiscal state of our nation. Obama won’t get gun rights advocates (to whom Fast and Furious does matter) to vote for him, anyway.
The administration’s argument will go something like this: They will insist that the documents at the center of the constitutional crisis have nothing to do with the death of murdered border agent Brian Terry, how the Fast and Furious program was established or how it was executed because the documents in question are from long after the DOJ halted the botched program.
Obama and others will insist this is an election year witch hunt, a claim that some members of Congress are already making. Then Obama will proceed to tout his job proposals while blasting congressional Republicans for being detached and too consumed in an issue too complicated for most to grasp instead of focusing on jobs. In the ultimate political irony, he’ll make the case he’s trying to revive the economy while the GOP plays politics. Mitt Romney’s economic message will be muzzled by the GOP’s investigative zeal.
1811/0311
June 21st, 2012
12:01 pm
6) To the American people: “Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this Presidency.”
5) To Larry King: “There has been a tendency by this administration to hide behind executive privilege.”
4) Speech to an Hispanic group: “With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that’s just not the case ………. ”
3) To the American people: “The private sector is doing just fine.”
2) Please pass to Vladimir: “After the election I’ll have more flexibility.”
1) To the American electorate: “If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s going to be a one-term proposition.”
BINGO !!
ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT
June 21st, 2012
12:01 pm
The entire GOP should be held in contempt.
Road Scholar
June 21st, 2012
12:01 pm
Byte me: People think?
Gordon
June 21st, 2012
12:01 pm
…Obama administration helped to plan and execute Fast and Furious, although again, there’s no evidence that is true…
Then why not release the documents? Just withhold evidence and claim there is no evidence it is true. Brilliant. Imagine if a Republican AG had released weapons that ended up killing an agent and injuring many more, and then a Republican president had issued an executive order to keep the information from being released. Most on this blog would be apoplectic. Don’t you get tired of defending the indefensible?
Adam
June 21st, 2012
12:01 pm
Or do you think that evidence is an old-fashioned concept, that the charge alone should suffice as truth?
B
O
O
O
M!
JamVet
June 21st, 2012
12:01 pm
Is it even possible for that slut/prostitute, POS at the EIB to even tell the truth anymore?
For that matter, did he ever?
And why do the neocons let him get away with decades of these lies?
Because they hate liberals and non-Republicans more than they value integrity and honesty?
Peadawg
June 21st, 2012
12:02 pm
“That “lie”?” – No the lie where Holder has said on multiple occasions that he knew nothing about F &F.
And what about the stuff about it started under Bush. Wasn’t it called something else and Bush stopped it after something went wrong. Then it was started back up under Obama? BTW I’m asking a serious question…I heard this yesterday.
EJ Moosa
June 21st, 2012
12:02 pm
“Seeing that Congress is more focused on witch hunts than jobs…how do you expect our President to magically solve the employment outlook. Should he put on his superman cape and fly to Europe and solve their economic problems that affect us too?”
Perjury is not a witch hunt. It’s amazing that the liberals have no issue with the highest law enforcement agents in the US lying and circumventing the law.
As for Obama, he cannot keep his own house in order. He has no business telling the Europeans what to do or how to fix their issues.
Three and 1/2 years into the Obama administration and unemployment is rising.
It’s already clear that this emperor has no economic clothes…
Towncrier
June 21st, 2012
12:02 pm
“OK, Town, let’s try it your way: Do you have any evidence that Obama signed off on it?”
How would I any more than we initially had evidence of Nixon’s involvement in Watergate (not that FaF is equivalent)? But the safest way to dismiss an allegation is falsify it with evidence. So unless there is some kind of national security issue involved in the FaF operation (rather doubtful), then why not hand over the requested documents on the understanding that they may contain sensitive or critical information (pertaining perhaps to ongoing investigations, as you claim) that must not be divulged to anyone outside the committee (not without precedent)?
Joe Hussein Mama
June 21st, 2012
12:03 pm
Billybob — “hussein, the special prosecutor knew who leaked her name at the start of the investigation”
Knew, but couldn’t prove. Don’t make me explain the entire case to you.
“and went on for a couple of years after the fact and all he could do was catch someone messing up some inconsequential dates during testimony….that is call a political witch hunt….”
Rejected. Karl Rove admittedly withheld information from the grand jury more than once. There’s also circumstantial evidence that Scooter Libby learned of Plame’s CIA work through VP Cheney — which WOULD BE a violation of Federal intelligence security laws.
“the hunt here is to find out the truth and find out why holder perjured himself in front of congress…big difference but i wouldn’t expect jay to enlighten his readers to those facts….”
Well, the hunt with Plame was to figure out who originally knew Plame was a CIA operative on the active list and gave that info up to someone not authorized to possess it — which is a Federal offense. But I wouldn’t expect the conservative media to enlighten its consumers to *those* facts.
RIcky G
June 21st, 2012
12:03 pm
Byte Me — It’s not presumptuous. It’s called Congressional Oversight.
ty webb
June 21st, 2012
12:04 pm
GT,
The Mexican government wasn’t aware of “fast and furious” which is one of a few factors that makes that “operation” different than any former “operations” under Bush…and you also lied, “fast and furious” didn’t begin under Bush. The statement “Bush who created it” is a lie of the bald face variety.
MoreRightthanLeft
June 21st, 2012
12:04 pm
lib idiots…both parties have done nothing for the people..but you cant seem to quit the blame game, it must be easier to blame than to fix anything.. if you still blame bush, youre an idiot, if you think holder and barry didnt know anything and aboyt F&F and arent hiding something, youre an idiot…if you think the repubs are looking for more reasons to get rid of obama other than his crappy record, youre an idiot…if you voted for obama because he is black, youre an idiot…
Bush is not Pres…Oblama is…how about some accountability…why are libs so blind to see that everything he touches, breaks, gets worse or cost more money…
EJ Moosa
June 21st, 2012
12:04 pm
“Oh BTW, crude oil has just broken through the $80/bbl price support and is trading around $79/bbl”
Thats’ what happens when demand collapses.
1811/0311
June 21st, 2012
12:04 pm
Can you imagine if a Republican was in office ……….. the Dems. (and the liberal media) would be having a conspiracy orgasm.
What HYPOCRISY !
ByteMe - Political thug
June 21st, 2012
12:04 pm
Byte me: People think?
I’m an optimist that the Dark Side can be won over with logic and evidence. That makes me a “leftist” to them, I guess.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
June 21st, 2012
12:04 pm
Peter
June 21st, 2012
12:00 pm
Peter,
Of course Rush keeps up the “baloney”, as you say…I, for one, believe he has stock in Colt, Remington and the like. He just makes money keeping the duped…well…duped.
ByteMe - Political thug
June 21st, 2012
12:05 pm
It’s called Congressional Oversight.
Which part of the Constitution do you find it mentioned?
Erwin's cat
June 21st, 2012
12:05 pm
JHM – “Already rejected, and not just by me. If you want to discuss why I reject it, I’ll gladly discuss that.”
Sorry, I’m late to the party, I understand why you rejected it but don’t completely agree that it wasn’t dismissive at least in tone
Jay
June 21st, 2012
12:05 pm
The AJC already runs a conservative cartoon daily, alongside Luckovich.
As to the blog, Mike’s a cartoonist, not a word guy, and running a blog isn’t in his job description. They did allow comments on his cartoons for a while, but as some of you may recall, it became an unmoderated free-for-all that they had to shut down.
ByteMe - Political thug
June 21st, 2012
12:05 pm
Can you imagine if a Republican was in office ……….. the Dems. (and the liberal media) would be having a conspiracy orgasm.
Projection much?
Adam
June 21st, 2012
12:05 pm
Perjury is not a witch hunt.
And yet, they did not go after him for perjury, they went after him for contempt. Why is that?
Towncrier
June 21st, 2012
12:06 pm
“I like Luckowich myself, but I do agree that he should have comments. He is on the editorial page. He should be held to the same standard as the other editorial commentators such as our Imam and Kyle…it’s a double standard and I don’t much care for double standards…”
Thank you for that, josef. I agree with you completely. I am not asking that he be fired – just that he take some heat for the opinions he expresses.
stands for decibels
June 21st, 2012
12:06 pm
Adam @ 11.59, I for one wish that the House would actually go after the Administration on abuse-of-power issues of actual importance, rather than this crap. They could be sensible and highlight the atrocious treatment of whistleblowers (wouldn’t it have been nice for GOPers to be arguing on behalf of Bradley Manning’s human rights?), for instance. They could have intelligent public discussions over our drone program and the kill list, instead of hiding behind the usual “we can’t talk about that, security dontchaknow.”
Heck, on the economy, there are justifiable knocks against the President they could take, on screwing the pooch with HAMP and so forth.
Instead, they keep doing the Gunz/God/Gayz crap.
Oh well, I don’t really expect otherwise, but one can hope.
1811/0311
June 21st, 2012
12:06 pm
Conservatives take heart. The libs. & Obama don’t have enough sense to know how disasterous this can be just months before an election.
It just takes one good document to be “leaked” …………..
Adam
June 21st, 2012
12:06 pm
Towncrier: How would I any more than we initially had evidence of Nixon’s involvement in Watergate (not that FaF is equivalent)? But the safest way to dismiss an allegation is falsify it with evidence.
So the extent of Obama’s guilt is only limited by your imagination?
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
June 21st, 2012
12:07 pm
Jay,
It’s not the cartoon, it’s the diversion from the topic that the cartoon provides…
Joe Hussein Mama
June 21st, 2012
12:07 pm
Towncrier — “I guess so, JMH. It is probably imprudent to claim something for yourself you are not living up to.”
I’m pretty sure the Federal Trade Commission’s rules on truth in advertising don’t apply to TV networks and newspapers. I mean, you can certainly determine whose razor blades last the longest in regular use, or which brand of spaghetti sauce kids prefer, but quantifying an amorphous trait like “fairness” or “balance?” It seems a fool’s errand to me.
stands for decibels
June 21st, 2012
12:07 pm
Thank you for that, josef. I agree with you completely. I am not asking that he be fired – just that he take some heat for the opinions he expresses.
You guys…
Baby-sitting the poop-flingers in a comments thread is a lot of work. Luckovich negotiated terms where he doesn’t have to do that work. If you think they ought to pay him more so he might re-consider, maybe y’all ought to fork over a few quid of your own?
Brosephus™
June 21st, 2012
12:08 pm
They did allow comments on his cartoons for a while, but as some of you may recall, it became an unmoderated free-for-all that they had to shut down.
If it was anything remotely close to the jibberjabber that goes on here, I can completely understand shutting it down completely.
—————————–
Perjury is not a witch hunt.
And yet, they did not go after him for perjury, they went after him for contempt. Why is that?
Because, c-o-n-t-e-m-p-t IS a witch hunt.
1811/0311
June 21st, 2012
12:08 pm
ByteMe – Political thug:
And please show me where executive privilege is mentioned in the Constitution.
Adam
June 21st, 2012
12:08 pm
stands: Adam @ 11.59, I for one wish that the House would actually go after the Administration on abuse-of-power issues of actual importance, rather than this crap. They could be sensible and highlight the atrocious treatment of whistleblowers (wouldn’t it have been nice for GOPers to be arguing on behalf of Bradley Manning’s human rights?), for instance. They could have intelligent public discussions over our drone program and the kill list, instead of hiding behind the usual “we can’t talk about that, security dontchaknow.”
But they won’t do any of that, because in the place of Obama, the would do what they are accusing him of, and worse. Dismantling that power structure is not in their interests.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 21st, 2012
12:08 pm
Billybob — “when you have a president who just arbitrarily decides which laws he will uphold and which laws he will not uphold”
You pretty clearly don’t understand what he said last week. Would you like for me to explain it to you?
Adam
June 21st, 2012
12:10 pm
And please show me where executive privilege is mentioned in the Constitution.
Warning: Using conservative logic and deflection tactics below:
Show me where in the Constitution the Supreme Court has the ability to strike down laws, or make their own.
Fly-On-The-Wall
June 21st, 2012
12:10 pm
1811/0311 – @ 12:04 – we did imagine it for 8 years under Bush and you see what happened there. Totaly disregard for the rule of law and no one on the Right stood up to say a word.
stands for decibels
June 21st, 2012
12:10 pm
The libs. & Obama don’t have enough sense to know how disasterous this can be just months before an election.
oh, really? You really think Team Obama doesn’t calibrate their moves based on electability, in a general election year?
Face facts. F&F is already off the front news pages. It might be back, but it appears to have settled into nutter-poutrage territory at this point.
did you even bother to LOOK at the link Jay provided, of all the other contempt-’o-Congrefs folks that have come before? Why should the public worry its beautiful minds over another Capital Hill dust-up?
Towncrier
June 21st, 2012
12:10 pm
Humorous post at 12:01, Scout. How our words come back to bite us, huh?
ByteMe - Political thug
June 21st, 2012
12:10 pm
And please show me where executive privilege is mentioned in the Constitution.
It isn’t. That was the damned point! He’s claiming it’s against the Constitution, but I’m also saying that Congressional overight of the kind being done is also not mentioned in the Constitution. See how that works now? You can’t claim that the reaction is “unconstitutional” without also mentioning that the very act being reacted to is unconstitutional.
Adam
June 21st, 2012
12:11 pm
“If you have nothing to hide, then that quite literally means you are willing to let me photograph you naked? And I get full rights to that photograph—so I can show it to your neighbors?” – a wise commenter
getalife
June 21st, 2012
12:11 pm
RULED: Union must give fee increase notice…
“‘The majority thus decides, for the very first time, that the FIRST AMENDMENT DOES REQUIRE AN OPT-IN system in some circumstances [for union dues]: the levying of a special assessment or dues increase’
F WORD: FOX WINS OVER FCC…
Court throws out policy regulating curse words on broadcast TV…” drudgey.
The sc are con activists.
Can we cuss on this blog now?
Sarah Gee
June 21st, 2012
12:11 pm
If Holder woudl have spent more time enforcing the law and less of his energy on progressive politics and hiding the truth, the country would be a lot better off.
We need the truth or his resignation so that the country can move on with confidence.
stands for decibels
June 21st, 2012
12:12 pm
it became an unmoderated free-for-all that they had to shut down.
And let’s not forget just who it was that made it a free-for-all. These same a-holes cry in their beer over at Kyle’s, these days. But they lurk here. They sho’ nuff do…
Hi, Andy? Welch on any bets, lately?
Ahem
June 21st, 2012
12:12 pm
The program run during the Bush administration utilized inbedded tracking devices in the firearms and Fast and Furious, under the Obama administration did not. Why? How could one expect to track the firearms? Why did AG Holder make false statements in the first place?
RIcky G
June 21st, 2012
12:12 pm
Congressional Oversight is implied as part of the checks and balances of the branches of government. For a particular phrase of the Constition — see for one the “necessary and proper” clause.
MoreRightthanLeft
June 21st, 2012
12:14 pm
run!!!! from the economy and jobs obama..i mean you have only talked about it for 3 and 1/2 years and done nothing…except blame everyone on earth..
incomptent, arrogant, clueless, assclown…mr pres…
Towncrier
June 21st, 2012
12:14 pm
“Show me where in the Constitution the Supreme Court has the ability to strike down laws, or make their own.”
You will need to go to the Marbury ruling in 1803, in which the SCOTUS “interpreted” the Constitution to mean they had this right (interestingly after it was decided by the Senate two years earlier that a justice could only be impeached for an “indictable” offense – which of, course, was unlikely to ever happen).
Adam
June 21st, 2012
12:14 pm
Congressional Oversight is implied as part of the checks and balances of the branches of government. For a particular phrase of the Constition — see for one the “necessary and proper” clause.
THIS.
ByteMe - Political thug
June 21st, 2012
12:15 pm
Congressional Oversight is implied as part of the checks and balances of the branches of government.For a particular phrase of the Constition — see for one the “necessary and proper” clause.
So the part where the Executive is a co-equal branch of government — implied everywhere in the Constitution — means that they don’t have to bow down to the whims of a hyperpolitical Congress without a fight. Let the courts decide!
And let this take up yet another day of oxygen from the Romney campaign to paint the economy as horrible even if it’s not.
Adam
June 21st, 2012
12:15 pm
i mean you have only talked about it for 3 and 1/2 years and done nothing…except blame everyone on earth..
I agree. Congress has done nothing for 3 1/2 years on jobs (except for the Recovery Act) and they have blamed everyone else, including Obama, for their shortcomings.
Mighty Righty
June 21st, 2012
12:15 pm
My understanding is significantly different than Jays. For one thing he claims that people were demoted and fired. My understanding is that no one to this day has been punished. If Jay has other info it would be nice to inform us. After all, we are talking about a Murder investigation here not some campaign mis statement.In fact at lerast one “whistle blower” knowledgeable of the case has not even been interviewd. The “notion” that the gun running program was to “forward” the administration’’s fundamental change” program to restrict fire arm ownership in violation of the second amendment was not put forward by Rush Limbaugh but by Hillary Clinton’s actions and other anti gun liberals at the time this very program was on gonig. While the liberals were making public annoucements about the guns being used in Mexico, claiming the guns came from the United States the administration knew repeat knew the guns were being sent across the border with the full support and approval of the administration that was making the false claim that the guns were being provided by US gun dealers Also, at the same time the Obama regime knew of a report done by Mexico that proved most of the guns being used by the cartels were coming from Central and South America. But this didn’t sit well with the Administration’s anti gun policy. If this program was as innocent as Jay wants every one to think there would be no need to hide it. When Jay alledges that the congressional investigation has been unable to uncover the “needle” they need he is again wrong. The committee has documents proving Holder lied. After turning over a document which proved Holder’s pror testimony was false Holder withdrew the documents and now claim executive priviledge over the very same document. So now a president who claimed ignorance of this program is now claiming executive priviledge to stop the release of documents of which he previously claimed he was not aware. Doesn’t pass the smell test. Look for a full pardon of Holder for all crimes committed by Holder, by president Obama on his last day in office January 20, 2013.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 21st, 2012
12:16 pm
E. Cat — “Sorry, I’m late to the party, I understand why you rejected it but don’t completely agree that it wasn’t dismissive at least in tone”
No problem.
I think the post pointed at a dismissive attitude toward deaths on the part of conservatives in general. The post didn’t *dismiss* Agent Terry’s death, but asked ‘don’t these *other* deaths mean something to you as well?’ It’s a valid question, and it doesn’t imply a dismissal of Terry’s death. In fact, it suggests to me that Grasshopper might be employing some Stalinist logic, to wit: “one death is a tragedy, but a millions deaths are but a statistic.”
It’s therefore pertinent, IMO, to ask how come thousands of *other* deaths with a plausibly political association don’t necessarily become *thousands of tragedies.* Because if they aren’t, then it’s *Grasshopper,* IMO, who’s being dismissive of certain deaths.
East Cobb RINO
June 21st, 2012
12:17 pm
Show me where in the Constitution the Supreme Court has the ability to strike down laws, or make their own
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Adam I am with you on most of your points but the Supreme Court can strike down laws if they rule them unconstitutional. It is kinda their function. But they cannot make laws.
Towncrier
June 21st, 2012
12:17 pm
“So the extent of Obama’s guilt is only limited by your imagination?”
Would you bet your very life on his innocence?
josef
June 21st, 2012
12:17 pm
I don’t necessarily think it’s Luckowich’s “job” to moderate a blog, As the Imam says, he’s not a “words” guy. But at the same time, he is expressing an editorial opinion on the editorial pages and SOMEbody can moderate the comments. He, and the AJC, are being given carte blanche. It’s not, imauo, good editorial policy, Don’t put it there if you can’t allow feedback in the form standardized on the opinion link.
GT
June 21st, 2012
12:17 pm
Anybody noticed how the right loves to use the word lie. It is tough in your face talk with little substance. Use to be when you call someone a liar you had something to back it up or you ran out of patience. For the right it is common language for common people.
Bush designed the program that gave birth to this but I said Obama has had prouder moments. Fact is,Mexico told or not told these guns should have been trace, try running the program from Mexico to the US and see if we are that casual. Fact is for every one gun the government put in the program there are many more coming from dirty hands, many NRA supporters, in this country using the same method. The Obama administration may have botched this operation but they didn’t create the situation.
RIcky G
June 21st, 2012
12:17 pm
Byte Me — Your argument is illogical. Because some things not mentioned directly in the Constituion are constitutional, one can not argue that other things not mentioned in the constitution are unconstitutional?????? That makes no sense.
stands for decibels
June 21st, 2012
12:18 pm
Can we cuss on this blog now?
We’ve always been able to. the AJC chooses to filter it, as is their right.
Adam
June 21st, 2012
12:18 pm
Adam I am with you on most of your points but the Supreme Court can strike down laws if they rule them unconstitutional. It is kinda their function. But they cannot make laws.
They can because we let them, not because it’s in the Constitution.
St Simons - codewords are the new black
June 21st, 2012
12:18 pm
beep-beep-beep-ok, msg received over the am radio band for today –
its Agent Terry! Agent Terry! Agent Terry!
The Republicans trying to sell de-humanization. Oh, the rich irony of that.
Deceit & Lies are all they have now.
I believe Darrel Issa has a love child with 3 aboriginal koala bears.
Prove me wrong, or I’ll file contempt (presumably of reason or logic)
getalife
June 21st, 2012
12:18 pm
It started under w and our President ended it.
stands for decibels
June 21st, 2012
12:19 pm
But at the same time, he is expressing an editorial opinion on the editorial pages and SOMEbody can moderate the comments.
Ok. That’s a human resource that needs to be deployed for that end. I guess it’d be something to take up with their superiors.
larry
June 21st, 2012
12:19 pm
the United States government, executive privilege is the power claimed by the President of the United States and other members of the executive branch to resist certain subpoenas and other interventions by the legislative and judicial branches of government. The concept of executive privilege is not mentioned explicitly in the United States Constitution, but the Supreme Court of the United States ruled it to be an element of the separation of powers doctrine, and/or derived from the supremacy of executive branch in its own area of Constitutional activity
MoreRightthanLeft
June 21st, 2012
12:19 pm
Adam…good we agree..govt has done nothing…but leadership is horrible..and youre implying repub congress, right? dont both parties have something in the game…
recovery act!! yep that worked…he saved jobs..lol..
its just funny how obama brings up jobs at every tv moment but other things have taken precendent each time..
Adam
June 21st, 2012
12:19 pm
Towncrier: Would you bet your very life on his innocence?
Would you bet YOUR life on his guilt?
I’m not f***ing nuts, so I do not generally gamble with my life. Unless you count speeding, which I simply rationalize as somehow not gambling with my life.
ty webb
June 21st, 2012
12:19 pm
“Bush designed the program that gave birth to this but I said Obama has had prouder moments.”
but that’s not what you originally said…liar….oh, and the above is a lie too.
Towncrier
June 21st, 2012
12:20 pm
“…but quantifying an amorphous trait like “fairness” or “balance?” It seems a fool’s errand to me.”
But a ploy used by advertisers all of the time – like Coke’s claim years ago that “this is it”.
Adam
June 21st, 2012
12:21 pm
GT: Anybody noticed how the right loves to use the word lie.
They like to use it because it makes it seem like the charge of a lie is only crying wolf, so that their leader Mitt Romney can lie his head off and if we point it out we’re just crying wolf.
See also “the race card.”
getalife
June 21st, 2012
12:21 pm
Mike did have a blog with no rules.
Andy messed that up like cons always do.
stands for decibels
June 21st, 2012
12:21 pm
its Agent Terry! Agent Terry! Agent Terry!
The Republicans trying to sell de-humanization. Oh, the rich irony of that.
Anyone remember Robert Krentz?
No?
They ought to, since his murder was the excuse for AZ’s stupid Papers Please law, and a dozen ALEC-authored copycats in other states.
Brosephus™
June 21st, 2012
12:21 pm
As the Imam says, he’s not a “words” guy. But at the same time, he is expressing an editorial opinion on the editorial pages and SOMEbody can moderate the comments. He, and the AJC, are being given carte blanche.
Ever think that the AJC looked at it from a financial standpoint and figured out that the person who would monitor the comments would be much more efficient doing something else? At the end of the day, I’d wager that it all comes down to money and not driving some ideological message.
mdouglasman
June 21st, 2012
12:21 pm
Jay, your blog is tiresome and old…just mail in “GOP” and that will be enough to get your comrades going. This President is the most divisive President we have ever had…typical Chigago radical with no executive experience….why you guys keeping supporting him in the systematic destruction of this country is beyond belief…..just once get out of your cubicle and circle of robots and talk to some real people who look at results, not just talk.
ByteMe - Political thug
June 21st, 2012
12:22 pm
The concept of executive privilege is not mentioned explicitly in the United States Constitution, but the Supreme Court of the United States ruled it to be an element of the separation of powers doctrine, and/or derived from the supremacy of executive branch in its own area of Constitutional activity
Thank you larry. Doesn’t mean they still won’t complain, because facts are not important to certain people, but at least you’ve done a better job than I have of explaining it.
Towncrier
June 21st, 2012
12:22 pm
“Would you bet YOUR life on his guilt?”
Of course not, but I fail to see what the problem is with releasing the requested documents to a committee sworn to secrecy if there is no issue with national security. Care to edify me?
stands for decibels
June 21st, 2012
12:22 pm
Andy messed that up like cons always do.
Dunno it was really just him, but he sure liked to brag about how he’d “run off” Mike.
East Cobb RINO
June 21st, 2012
12:22 pm
Maybe we can get David Stern to ask Rep Issa “Have you stopped beating your wife yet?”
ken
June 21st, 2012
12:22 pm
Holder, be a big boy and just tell the truth. Done !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
stands for decibels
June 21st, 2012
12:23 pm
By the way, I only lurked over at Luckovich’s blog–thought it was a cesspool, mostly.
Adam
June 21st, 2012
12:24 pm
dont both parties have something in the game…
You’d think so. But apparently the Republican calculation is that bringing up divisive messaging while at the same time accusing Democrats of being divisive will get people to believe that somehow, they will be the leaders that simply get everyone to agree with them. Because, somehow, that is “unity” and “not divisive.” But if you look more seriously at what they are doing, most rational people come away thinking they are not very interested in helping the economy, and may in fact be seeking to keep it down on purpose for political gain.
recovery act!! yep that worked…he saved jobs..lol..
Thank you for your agreement. You can see the results and details on recovery.gov
East Cobb RINO
June 21st, 2012
12:25 pm
Adam, I would be curious to know of a specific example of a law that the Supreme Court made. There are many which have been upheld or struck down, but I am at a loss for a law they have made.
Joseph
June 21st, 2012
12:25 pm
For one Jay. Karl Rove was not held in contempt. For two trying to persuade independents that this President along with his administration is not corrupt is simply laughable now. For three you conveniently left out the reason this is even happening! The Terry family deserves answers even if it may show more ineptness from the current President. He and his party should forget about politics for a moment and do the right thing!
Mighty Righty
June 21st, 2012
12:25 pm
Poor Obama. Too stupid to realise his buddies in the media were ignoring his fast and furious cover up. Now he has gone and made it front page news. Even Jay had to come back from his vacation to defend him. Jay has been ignoring this story for more than a year and here it is. Jay would much prefer to talk about Republicans in Gwinnett County or the Georgia legislature getting $100 lunches.
Adam
June 21st, 2012
12:26 pm
Towncrier: Of course not, but I fail to see what the problem is with releasing the requested documents to a committee sworn to secrecy if there is no issue with national security. Care to edify me?
That’s not an accurate description of what Congress is doing, nor is it an accurate description of the documents being requested, or of the committee asking for them. I could be wrong on the last part only.
Towncrier
June 21st, 2012
12:26 pm
“The concept of executive privilege is not mentioned explicitly in the United States Constitution, but the Supreme Court of the United States ruled it to be an element of the separation of powers doctrine, and/or derived from the supremacy of executive branch in its own area of Constitutional activity.”
And that is the problem. The Constitution was drafted on the premise that government does NOT have powers that are NOT explicitly enumerated therein. There are hundreds of practices by all three branches of the federal government that have no basis in the Constitution. It has become an NBA rule book.
East Cobb RINO
June 21st, 2012
12:26 pm
“You’d think so. But apparently the Republican calculation is that bringing up divisive messaging while at the same time accusing Democrats of being divisive will get people to believe that somehow, they will be the leaders that simply get everyone to agree with them. Because, somehow, that is “unity” and “not divisive.” But if you look more seriously at what they are doing, most rational people come away thinking they are not very interested in helping the economy, and may in fact be seeking to keep it down on purpose for political gain”
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Well said.
stands for decibels
June 21st, 2012
12:26 pm
Karl Rove was not held in contempt
…by perhaps as much as 22% of the American populace.