A lot of baloney flying fast and furious

As previously noted, the “Fast and Furious” program run by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the U.S. attorney in Arizona was a badly conceived operation made worse by incompetent leadership. It began as an effort to track the illegal flow of guns from U.S. gun shops across the border to Mexican drug cartels, with the hope of using the information to break up those cartels, and in the end it may have contributed to scores of deaths, including the death of a U.S. Border Patrol officer.

Nobody — with the exception of some who were directly involved — disputes that it was a bad idea gone wrong. And as a result, most of those in the ATF and the U.S. attorney’s office in Arizona who planned and led the effort have been fired or reassigned.

So what’s the controversy in Washington all about? Republicans have two working theories about Fast and Furious, and through the House Government Oversight Committee are attempting to find evidence to support those pet theories. But so far, despite having subpoenaed a veritable haystack of documents from the Justice Department, they have been unable to find the needle that they seek.

The response to that failure has been to demand still more haystacks to search. Committee Chairman Darrell Issa insists that the Justice Department release thousands of additional documents that go right to the core of ongoing criminal investigations in the case, even though as a matter of law and practice such documents are considered exempt from congressional subpoena.

Attorney General Eric Holder, backed by President Obama, has refused to release those documents, which is why he is now in danger of joining a long list of officials in both parties to have been held in contempt of Congress over the years.

Issa and his colleagues believe that somewhere, documents exist that will show that Holder and others at high levels in the Obama administration helped to plan and execute Fast and Furious, although again, there’s no evidence that is true. But what really drives the investigation is a deeply held conviction among many conservatives that instead of being an effort to track guns back to the drug cartels and then arrest cartel leadership, Fast and Furious was a government plot intended to make guns look bad and to build public support for undercutting the Second Amendment.

Here’s how Rush Limbaugh explained it to the faithful yesterday:

“Now, we all know what the purpose of this was. The purpose of this was to gin up anti-Amendment 2 sentiment among the people of this country. The objective was — and this is where the irony steps in — the objective was to have news stories where everybody was shocked and stunned and saddened, guns purchased by drug cartel members in America. Look how easy it was, end up in Mexico, owned by violent drug gangs, and used in the commission of heinous crimes. Why, our gun laws are too lax. The sentiment in this country among the people is to maintain the Second Amendment. The America people don’t want, by a vast majority, any gun control legislation. But that doesn’t matter to people like President Kardashian or Eric Holder or any of the Democrat Party or the left.

They don’t want you to have guns, and so it doesn’t matter about the Constitution and it doesn’t matter about the will of the American people. If they don’t want you to have guns they’re gonna try to find a way to make sure that you don’t. And that’s what Fast and Furious was, as simply put as I can make it.”

The theory has no more basis in fact than do claims that Obama is a Kenyan plant or that he intends to confiscate all firearms in private hands. It also ignores the reality that the Bush administration had run similar if smaller scale operations, and that Fast and Furious — botched though it was — was simply an extension of those previous programs.

Unfortunately, these days a story with a basis in fact is much less valuable than a bogus story line that gets people stirred up and angry, certain that their country is being stolen from them as they watch.

– Jay Bookman

609 comments Add your comment

josef

June 21st, 2012
10:17 am

Yaaay…

Papa Daddy’s back on the Liberal Plantation…glad you’re back? Were we good l’il chirren while you were gone… :-)

Fly-On-The-Wall

June 21st, 2012
10:18 am

The real truth doesn’t matter to Republicans these days. They only want to see their version of the truth and be damned to everyone/everything else.

It is a Presidental election year so all of the crazies come out of the wood work. The problem is that the Republicans are all crazy so there isn’t a leader or statesman to help control the nuts in the party as in the past.

TaxPayer

June 21st, 2012
10:20 am

For one thing, Republicans cannot read large documents. At least that’s what they keep telling us.

Steve

June 21st, 2012
10:20 am

Only the far right media is running and spinning this out of control, desperately trying to paint Obama as the devil.

Most Americans could care less about this spun up nonsense. Polls are showing that Romney’s rose is falling out of bloom anyhow. It is going to be an easy Obama win in November. Even Obama is showing leads in Florida right now.

josef

June 21st, 2012
10:22 am

This whole megillah was a bad idea from conception. Dumb. Just plain dumb. Now as far as the documents? Aw, turn ‘em loose and keep the antis occupied plowing through them looking for what’s probably not there to begin with. Find somebody in “contempt of congress?” Just taking it at verbal face value, we can come up without 300,000,000 names for that list in a heartbeat…

TaxPayer

June 21st, 2012
10:23 am

“This just in. Republicans have produced tapes with missing segments of time.” – Fox Mulder

Oscar

June 21st, 2012
10:23 am

Fast and Furious started under Bush. It was a bad idea. But it didn’t result in anyone’s death. The killers would have just used other guns. Guns are fungible and available.
Reminds me of the withchhunt after Clinton. Forty million to dig up nothing.

Fly-On-The-Wall

June 21st, 2012
10:24 am

It just makes me so sick to watch or listen to this crap that I am truly losing faith in this country. I very much believe now that the Republicans want to destroy this country if they cannot get their way. I’m sure some of the Rightie Tighties will say it’s ok and that in order to save this nation we must destroy it but I don’t think that works. Do they really understand what they are doing? Do they realize that people will get hurt and some will die by these actions?

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

June 21st, 2012
10:24 am

Steve

June 21st, 2012
10:25 am

Obama received an F rating from the Brady gun control group. He’s no anti 2nd amendment politician. Not even close. The far right is truly desperate at this point. Is this the best swift boat attempt? Sad.

jj

June 21st, 2012
10:27 am

The real question is about perjury. When Issa holds up a memo that Holder admits reading and it specifically states F & F, and Holders response is that F&F is not really F&F we have a problem.
But Democrats are comfortable with Perjury, just like with Uncle Bill.
(for those of you willing to look you will see Uncle Bill was dis-barred in Arkansas for his little white lies.)
I don’t like Holder and I don’t like his politics but he is an appointee of the President and I respect what he has to do, but I will not accept the nations top police official perjuring himself.

Holder's Gone

June 21st, 2012
10:27 am

If there’s nothing to hide, then just turn over the documents. PERIOD.
This is no worse than Palin being forced to turn over all documents she created while Governor of Alaska. Talk about witch hunt….

Moderate Line

June 21st, 2012
10:27 am

Attorney General Eric Holder, backed by President Obama, has refused to release those documents, which is why he is now in danger of joining a long list of officials in both parties to have been held in contempt of Congress over the years.
++++
It doesn’t really matter what the motives of the Republicans are. Obama claimed he was going to make his adminsitration more transparent. Not providing documents goes against that principle. If there is no problem he would hand over whatever documents he has.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

June 21st, 2012
10:29 am

…and Jay,
All you brought us back was a quote from Rush??? What!? We don’t even get a lousy tee shirt?

Oscar

June 21st, 2012
10:30 am

Holder offered to go over the documents privately. Just not make them public. And Holder is right. Memos and emails are private and not subject to being made public by a congressional request.

CJ

June 21st, 2012
10:31 am

Selling guns is a nefarious plot to eliminate the second amendment. The NRA president says that Obama hasn’t taken any action in favor or gun control to “lull” us into complacency. Romney’s campaign chairman in Arizona says that he believes that Obama was born in America, but wrote that he was born in Kenya on his college applications to get special consideration (when will Obama release his college applications?). Teleprompters, birtherism, apology tour, and on and on.

These lies aren’t buried in the bowels of my inbox anymore. They’re spewed at the highest levels of Republican governance, specifically to undermine the legitimacy of those with whom they disagree. Such tactics are disgusting, but what’s even more disgusting that a large portion of voters are willing to believe anything, irregardless of facts and logic.

TaxPayer

June 21st, 2012
10:31 am

Republicans always have the fall-back position that the founder of Ameritrade offered up after they give up on trying to make the truth hurt anyone other than themselves.

Doggone/GA

June 21st, 2012
10:32 am

Say it plainly: they’re trying to find something, ANYthing, to embarass Obama and they want HIM (via Holder) to provide it.

Aquagirl

June 21st, 2012
10:34 am

If there’s nothing to hide, then just turn over the documents.

There is something to hide….details of ongoing criminal investigations. Handing those to our loose-lipped politicians is not a good idea.

godless heathen

June 21st, 2012
10:34 am

Uh-oh. The administration had to call Jay in off of vacation to put down this Fast & Furious furor.

Mr Right

June 21st, 2012
10:35 am

What a transparent President we have!

Hootinanny Yum Yum

June 21st, 2012
10:35 am

Supervisors involved in F&F were assigned were “laterally transferred.” http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/08/18/139743054/atf-denies-fast-and-furious-supervisors-received-promotions

I don’t understand why they weren’t disciplined, demoted or forced to resign. Guess they know in which closets the skeletons are located.

On the other hand; whistle-blowers were transferred to backwater districts, denied offices and been deemed traitors. Just doesn’t seem right. http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2011/12/07/inside-president-obamas-war-on-the-fast-furious-whistleblowers/

Early in this administration, a significant effort was made by both Mexican and U.S. officials to highlight how many guns were being used in crimes south of the border. To my paranoid, delusional conservative Right-Wing mind; there is no doubt the purpose of gun-walking operations are under the current administration.

CJ

June 21st, 2012
10:35 am

Holders Gone @10:27: “If there’s nothing to hide, then just turn over the documents.

HG,

Jay explained this in the post that you don’t appear to have read–

“Committee Chairman Darryl Issa insists that the Justice Department release thousands of additional documents that go right to the core of ongoing criminal investigations in the case, even though as a matter of law and practice such documents are considered exempt from congressional subpoena.

St Simons - beach philosopher

June 21st, 2012
10:37 am

“Obama Uses Executive Privilege in Holder Case”

get crackin’ Obama the Mammmmba (thwack!) owner of cons ebbywhere
you got to use that thing 20+ more times
to equal the Republican hypocrites.
doink

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

June 21st, 2012
10:38 am

Is this a statement of a sane man?

“CPAC confrence in Florida NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre, President Barack Obama’s decision not to pursue gun control legislation is a “massive conspiracy,”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aELb5ub1oE&feature=related

Adam

June 21st, 2012
10:38 am

Dammit Jay if I had known you’d be back with THIS I would have brought popcorn to work.

Mr Right

June 21st, 2012
10:39 am

If the A G is so innocent like Jay makes it appear, why did he lie to congress?

Steve

June 21st, 2012
10:39 am

Why isn’t Congress focused on jobs instead of expensive, pointless witch hunts that cost tax payers millions?

Adam

June 21st, 2012
10:40 am

To the NOTHING TO HIDE people,

Step 1) read this: http://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/

Step 2) get your head out of your ass.

josef

June 21st, 2012
10:40 am

NORMAL
@ 10:38

Now THAT’S spin doctoring of the highest order! :-)

Adam

June 21st, 2012
10:42 am

If the A G is so innocent like Jay makes it appear, why did he lie to congress?

If he lied to Congress, why didn’t they charge him with lying to Congress?

GA Dawg

June 21st, 2012
10:44 am

The liberal media is in cahoots with Obarma. And Obarma he is gonna take our guns and make us all mooslims.

godless heathen

June 21st, 2012
10:45 am

Why isn’t Congress focused on jobs instead of expensive, pointless witch hunts that cost tax payers millions?

Why isn’t the Department of Justice focused on prosecuting crimes instead of expensive, pointless witch hunts that cost tax payers millions? See Clemons, Roger.

Adam

June 21st, 2012
10:45 am

Excellent segment by Rachel Maddow last night on this very subject.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#47898261

Can’t wait to see the accusations and rationalizations fly on the very fact I mentioned her name and linked her segment. So predictable….

TaxPayer

June 21st, 2012
10:46 am

Speaking of Palin’s now-released documentation, didn’t it show that she was pallin’ around with terrorists.

Mr Right

June 21st, 2012
10:46 am

f the A G is so innocent like Jay makes it appear, why did he lie to congress?

If he lied to Congress, why didn’t they charge him with lying to Congress?

Don’t know but I suppose it’s because it was in a letter to them when he wasn’t under oath!

Curious

June 21st, 2012
10:46 am

The concept of “gun walking” germinated back in 2006. Seems there has been a commonality of players on the Federal side in the Arizona office.

What somebody thought was a good idea turns out to be not so good.

Investigate from the beginning (calling it another name doesn’t let the original participants off the hook) and find out which of these career Agents and DOJ people promoted, mismanaged it, and discipline them.

I would seriously doubt anybody in this Administration or prior administrations developed this program independently. This was conceived and “sold” as a good idea.by those “professional” Career personnel that were probably on board before Bush or Obama.

If anyone should be held in contempt, it should be Rep. Issa.

too little time

June 21st, 2012
10:47 am

“Memos and emails are private and not subject to being made public by a congressional request.”

There shouldn’t be any memos and emails. Holder says he did not know, Obama said he did not know. How can there be any memos and emails about stuff that both have said they knew nothing?

godless heathen

June 21st, 2012
10:48 am

If he lied to Congress, why didn’t they charge him with lying to Congress?

They who? The DOJ?

David Granger

June 21st, 2012
10:49 am

Jay, I agree with you completely on this. “Fast and Furious” WAS an attempt to track the flow of guns from U.S. gunshops (where the purchases were legal) to Mexican drug cartels across the border (which was illegal). It was well-intended, but perhaps poorly thought out and poorly executed by imcompetent leadership.
So what’s the big deal with turning over the subpoenaed documents? Why the need for President Obama to invoke executive privilege? Why not just admit…from the very beginning…that both the President and the Attorney General knew about the program, and hoped it would accomplish something positive? Every single thing that the government does…no matter who’s in the White House…does not work out exactly as planned. Some operations go exactly as planned, while some operations screw up beyond any ability to possibly foresee. Why did Holder have to lie to congress about his knowledge and participation in the operation? Why not just admit that it was an attempt to track the illegal flow of guns, but…like other operations before under both Democratic and Republican administrations…it didn’t work out the way it had been hoped? Then AG Holder wouldn’t have had to lie about whether he even knew about the operation or not.

Fly-On-The-Wall

June 21st, 2012
10:50 am

Fear and Hate is all they got. That’s their replacement for Hope and Change.

Mr Right

June 21st, 2012
10:51 am

Adam

June 21st, 2012
10:45 am

Who would believe any thing that comes from MSNBC since they were caught editing things to make the point they want to make?

Lt. Caffey

June 21st, 2012
10:51 am

If he wasn’t in danger, why did he have to be transferred off the base? Colonel?

ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT

June 21st, 2012
10:51 am

Darrry Issa is a idiot .

Oblama

June 21st, 2012
10:52 am

Eric Holder covered for Clinton and he’s covering for Obama. Where there’s smoke there’s fire.. The Obama administration has a history of ignoring laws they don’t agree with. All this reeks of the King Roy attitude of being so superior they are above the law. Arrogance has led to the downfall of King Roy Barnes and now Obama has the King Roy syndrome.

ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT

June 21st, 2012
10:52 am

Romney is pandering clown

Peadawg

June 21st, 2012
10:53 am

“A lot of baloney flying fast and furious”

Seabiscuit

Steve

June 21st, 2012
10:53 am

Romney is a magic underwear wearing flip flopping uber wealthy spineless pandering clown.

ragnar danneskjold

June 21st, 2012
10:53 am

We understand Bookman supports the cover-up. After all, why should an administration act transparently?

ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT

June 21st, 2012
10:54 am

GOP gots nuttin , old white fools …..

Steve

June 21st, 2012
10:54 am

GOP = greedy old pigs.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

June 21st, 2012
10:56 am

“GOP gots nuttin , old white fools …..”

Hey! I’m an old white fool and I ain’t Republican! Wait, did I say that right? :D

Sarah Gee

June 21st, 2012
10:56 am

What is Obama hiding. If the facts are not in dispute as Bookman claims, what ’s the big deal. Congress has the rights to see documents related to a gun running operations gone wrong. If the White House did not know about this misbegotten disaster, what is the point of asserting privilige? On the other hand what did they know? What were the purposes of “fast and furious”? How has the White House been involved in the cover up? We can only know by seeing these documents.

No one is asking to hear that legal advice given to the president by his closest counselors. Rather this is a simple matter of transparency and accountablity.

Obama made much of how asserting executive privilige was wrong. It’s just another broken promise, another cynical attack from Obama when he had no real underlying conviction.

Holder needs to be accountable. If that trail leads to the White House, so be it.

Col. Jessup

June 21st, 2012
10:56 am

I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to!

Jimmy62

June 21st, 2012
10:56 am

If it’s no big deal, why are they refusing to release all the documents? I doubt the anti-gun angle, but it’s not like Obama and his sycophants haven’t said some pretty anti-gun stuff. I think this case has become a lot bigger than it had to be due to their refusals and recalcitrance. It could have gone away, but Obama and Holder keep trying to hide something. I don’t know what, but they are hiding something, that cannot be denied. Literally cannot be denied. That’s what the claim of executive privilege is… hiding something.

ragnar danneskjold

June 21st, 2012
10:56 am

Eric Holder was a crook when he recommended the Marc Rich pardon, and he was a liar when he affirmed for Congress that he had no knowledge about the criminal actions of his department in “Fast and Furious.” The only rational question is why Obama hangs on to such a loser.

Road Scholar

June 21st, 2012
10:56 am

Show them the e-mails and then arrest everyone of them for messing with an on-going investigation. Put them in solitary until the investigation is done. Heck, the Congress is not doing anything anyway! This would be a win win! We won’t have to listen to this drivel.

Adam: always keep a box of microwave popcorn in your desk for “emergencies” like this. That and some MRE’s and Ramen noodles! This could last into the night!!!!

Conspiracies? Someone put the S key to the right of the A key on my keyboard, but Jay and Kyle won’t let me use the term “a$$”. That is entrapment! And I know some politician did this… if I could only prove it!

Joe Hussein Mama

June 21st, 2012
10:57 am

TaxPayer — “Speaking of Palin’s now-released documentation, didn’t it show that she was pallin’ around with terrorists.”

Inasmuch as the AIP are separatists, but that doesn’t automatically make them terrorists in my book.

Joe Hussein Mama

June 21st, 2012
10:58 am

Mr. Right — “Who would believe any thing that comes from MSNBC since they were caught editing things to make the point they want to make?”

I trust that you have the same opinion of Fox News.

ByteMe - Political thug

June 21st, 2012
11:01 am

In case you want to know what was covered under “executive privilege” and why:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/97675513/062011-Letter

That’s the letter to Issa asserting executive privilege. It’s a detailed walk-through of what has been requested, what has been produced, what will never be produced and why.

Impotent Rage Against the Obama Machine

June 21st, 2012
11:02 am

yeah! this is just like lyin’ us into a waw of choice!
wait…
well annyways,

THEY GON TAKE YORE GUNZ!

ByteMe - Political thug

June 21st, 2012
11:03 am

Hey, ragnar, you still working the “this is just like Watergate” meme you tried to push yesterday over at Kyle’s place?

Hootinanny Yum Yum

June 21st, 2012
11:03 am

Gun-Walking Operations:

Bush – Operation Wide Receiver, Mar 2006 – Oct 2007, 650 guns allowed to “walk”. Mexican government notified of operation. Operation shut down at the behest of William Hoover, ATF’s assistant director for the office of field operations.

Obama – Operation Fast & Furious, Nov 2009 – Jan 2011, 2020 guns allowed to “walk”. Mexican government never notified of operation. Operation shut down after disclosure of “walked” weapon involved in Arizona firefight resulted in the Dec 2010 death of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

There’s a marked difference in how these operations were executed and concluded. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

Grasshopper

June 21st, 2012
11:03 am

Jay returns to help wash the blood from Holder’s hands – just following Obama’s cues.

Being agood soldier and poo-pooing the death of a Federal Officer is the liberel way today. His name was Brian Terry by the way. I know that is just a post script to you libs but he was a real person with a family. So were all of the Mexicans killed by this program.

But keep burying your head in the sand. You don’t have to think about such bad things down there.

Joe Hussein Mama

June 21st, 2012
11:04 am

Impotent Rage — “THEY GON TAKE YORE GUNZ!”

EY TUK ER JERBZ!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goobacks

They BOTH suck

June 21st, 2012
11:04 am

Rags @ 10:56

For a guy like yourself who pretty much claims to work with the facts and reason, you sure are speculating……. to say the least

just sayn

Steve

June 21st, 2012
11:05 am

Grasshopper, 3 people die every hour from gun violence in this country. thousands died in failed wars. One border agent dies and Obama is the anti-christ?

Scooter

June 21st, 2012
11:05 am

Yeah, you’re right Jay… Hillary and The Obama weren’t correlating the Mexican drug violence with U.S. weapons before we learned The Obama’s Executive Branch was selling guns directly to Mexican criminals. Do you not want people to see what is before them, or is it a selective, partisan desire of yours?

Anyway, lets read another story about Valarie Plame being a covert operative outed by The Evil Bush Administration. That was a big story right?

DBCOOPER

June 21st, 2012
11:06 am

Agent killed with American weapon supplied by American DOJ. And of course liberal hack Bookman says it’s nothing. TYPICAL.

Just like American soldiers giving the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq for nothing hugh Jay?

Oh yeah that was Repubs. My bad.

ByteMe - Political thug

June 21st, 2012
11:06 am

One border agent dies and Obama is the anti-christ?

In Grasshopper’s mind, that’s just a non-sequiteur with two factual statements.

Michael

June 21st, 2012
11:06 am

You shall be judged by the quality of your enemies. We find 90% of the public has no respect for the congress. Accordingly, Mr. Holder, we find great favor with you.
The congress had an opportunity to help monitor illegal gun trafficking by allowing ATF to require electronic filing of gun sales reports. They denied that procedure. Accordingly, they are involved in the illegal trafficking of guns and have a conflict of interest in this matter.

Joe Hussein Mama

June 21st, 2012
11:06 am

Grasshopper – “poo-pooing the death of a Federal Officer is the liberel way today”

I challenge you to produce one post by any regular liberal poster on here that demonstrates a dismissive attitude about of Agent Terry’s death.

ByteMe - Political thug

June 21st, 2012
11:07 am

Aren’t border patrol agents supposed to be like the security team on Star Trek?

EJ Moosa

June 21st, 2012
11:07 am

You would think Jay would want to talk about all the dismal economic data coming out this week, How was that Fed outlook on employment Bookman?

Obama better be thankful for Fast and Furious.

ByteMe - Political thug

June 21st, 2012
11:09 am

Sorry, JHM, I had to do it.

People are making it sound like one border patrol agent’s death is the worst thing in the world, when compared to 4000+ killed over Iraq… which never ever ever gets mentioned how that might have happened.

ByteMe - Political thug

June 21st, 2012
11:10 am

You would think Jay would want to talk about all the dismal economic data coming out this week

Both Ohio and Florida are being asked by the Romney campaign to stop talking about how good the recoveries are there. Wonder why they’d do that.

Steve

June 21st, 2012
11:10 am

Moosa…

Seeing that Congress is more focused on witch hunts than jobs…how do you expect our President to magically solve the employment outlook. Should he put on his superman cape and fly to Europe and solve their economic problems that affect us too?

RIcky G

June 21st, 2012
11:10 am

Jay — On what basis are you claiming that “as a matter of law and practice such documents are considered exempt from congressional subpoena”? While executive privilege may apply to individuals who work in the Executive Branch of goverment who serve at the pleasure of the President and are not subject to Senate confirmation and otherewise do not report to Congress, that is not the case here. The Department of Justice is an Article I branch of goverment that was created by Congress and is completely dependant upon Congrrss for its very existence. Yet you claim they can tell Congress to go to hell?

Middle of the Road

June 21st, 2012
11:11 am

Transparency doesn’t equal foolishness. Just the other day everyone was outraged by leaks of classified national security information and understandably so. The administration has been forthcoming for months and has finally and reluctantly drawn a line in the sand.

Fast and Furious was a severely botched operation. Conceived in the Bush administration and nurtured under the Obama one. Indirectly both Presidents share in whatever blame the Chief Executive Office can bear under the circumstances. But I see no evidence anywhere of criminal wrongdoing.

And as for Rush, what a buffoon.

Bob Akimbo

June 21st, 2012
11:11 am

That’s your argument against transparency? That Rush Limbaugh has a conspiracy theory?

Grasshopper

June 21st, 2012
11:11 am

“Grasshopper, 3 people die every hour from gun violence in this country. thousands died in failed wars. One border agent dies and Obama is the anti-christ?”

Not the anti-Christ (Christ should always be capitalized, by the way) just now involved in a massive cover-up.

Grasshopper

June 21st, 2012
11:12 am

“I challenge you to produce one post by any regular liberal poster on here that demonstrates a dismissive attitude about of Agent Terry’s death.”

You can start with Steve at 11:05.

Steve

June 21st, 2012
11:13 am

Massive coverup? Wow, take off the tinfoil hat, man.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

June 21st, 2012
11:14 am

“And as for Rush, what a buffoon.”

I just see Rush as a failed Disc Jockey…all he can do is talk since he hasn’t figured out how to use the turn table, or disc player…

Steve

June 21st, 2012
11:14 am

I’m not dismissing the death of an agent, but please, remove the hysterics and conspiracy nonsense and put this into perspective. The necessary actions were taken, people were fired.

joe

June 21st, 2012
11:15 am

…And even more smells coming out of this administration! Everything Obozo touches turns to fools gold.

Towncrier

June 21st, 2012
11:15 am

“It began as an effort to track the illegal flow of guns from U.S. gun shops across the border to Mexican drug cartels, with the hope of using the information to break up those cartels, and in the end it may have contributed to scores of deaths, including the death of a U.S. Border Patrol officer.”

This, in my view, is not just “a bad idea gone wrong”, Jay. It is criminal. I never supposed that the operation was “a government plot intended to make guns look bad and to build public support for undercutting the Second Amendment”. Indeed, the thought never entered my mind. But if it were true that Obama actually knew about and authorized this operation (and in an election year, he certainly wouldn’t want to admit that) when Holder has testified he did not – now that is worth looking into. Obama’s use of executive privilege here is suspicious if (as it appears), the “privileged” documents are not 1) presidential (do not somehow involve Obama) or 2) a concern to national security.

Hootinanny Yum Yum

June 21st, 2012
11:16 am

The officials involved in Fast & Furious should be forced to retire. Holder should resign.

Grasshopper

June 21st, 2012
11:16 am

“Massive coverup? Wow, take off the tinfoil hat, man.”

What else do you call lying about knowledge of the program, refusing to allow any senior executive to accept responsibilty, obstructing a Congressional investigation and invoking executive privilege over a matter you supposedly knew nothing about, dude?

Curious

June 21st, 2012
11:18 am

Scooter:

“The Obama’s Executive Branch was selling guns directly to Mexican criminals.”

Where is his store? I want to buy a few myself.

ByteMe - Political thug

June 21st, 2012
11:18 am

While executive privilege may apply to individuals who work in the Executive Branch of goverment who serve at the pleasure of the President and are not subject to Senate confirmation and otherewise do not report to Congress, that is not the case here

Wrong. Executive privilege covers the executive branch. Not just the President. Congress has the power to confirm, the power of the purse, and the power of impeachment. The Executive branch is co-equal and can tell Congress to go to hell right up until the courts say they have to comply with something. That’s why “signing statements” are abhorrent… and still legal. Congress can’t tell the Executive how to do its job except through monentary control or if they can convince the court to go along.

Hootinanny Yum Yum

June 21st, 2012
11:18 am

I actually believe everything would be okay if President Obama were to come forward and say that Agent Brian Terry could have been his son…

TaxPayer

June 21st, 2012
11:18 am

Steve’s 11:05 post does not demonstrate a dismissive attitude regarding another’s loss of life. In fact, it highlights a problem.

Grasshopper

June 21st, 2012
11:19 am

Another dismissive attitude Joe. ByteMe at 11:07

TaxPayer

June 21st, 2012
11:20 am

Massive coverup? Wow, take off the tinfoil hat, man.

I think the cons superglue them on.

ByteMe - Political thug

June 21st, 2012
11:21 am

Another dismissive attitude Joe. ByteMe at 11:07

yep, and then see my 11:09 so that you can get the context. If you care. I doubt you care.

TaxPayer

June 21st, 2012
11:21 am

Don’t forget that 11:09, Grasshopper.

ByteMe - Political thug

June 21st, 2012
11:22 am

I think the cons superglue them on.

Eww… new code word for liberals: offer the nuts nail polish remover.

Towncrier

June 21st, 2012
11:22 am

“Executive privilege covers the executive branch. Not just the President. Congress has the power to confirm, the power of the purse, and the power of impeachment. The Executive branch is co-equal and can tell Congress to go to hell right up until the courts say they have to comply with something.”

FYI, there is no provision for “executive privilege” in the Constitution. Yet another instance of branches of the federal government (the executive and the judicial that “authorized” it) making their own rules, apart from the standard they are supposed to be following.

Grasshopper

June 21st, 2012
11:23 am

Yeah…good try at covering your a** ByteME. I know you wish you could gobble those words back up but your disdain is showing.