The consequences of vanishing wealth

I agree with our President. The private sector is doing just fine.

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Dang!

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SWEET JESUS!!?? I didn’t realize just how poor I am, until I saw that chart…OK, now I’m depressed.

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“The recent recession wiped out nearly two decades of Americans’ wealth, according to government data released Monday, with ­middle-class families bearing the brunt of the decline.”

According to the data, the richest families saw an increase in their net worth.

Oh, I’m sorry, do I have “wealth envy?” Gee, my bad…

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Don’t worry our President says we are doing fine even though our worth has been cut in half thanks to his failure to lead….

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Our CONGRESS’s failure to lead. Presidents aren’t dictators, they don’t have ultimate power.

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The number was bigger for us….

We will retire with dignity, but for decades we worked and scrimped and saved and followed the rules and did what we were advised to do….

All that work, all that austerity for naught.

What we had saved for a tiny new house and two new cars and our retirement “trip”- gone.

Poof!

I will never forgive the supply siders.

and the bite is…we still are the lucky ones considering what we have left

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When will Republicans stop blaming the President and the Government for all their problems?

Its called personal responsibility.

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If the HARP2 program could get some more traction, it has a chance of benefiting homeowners quicker than any other idea that has been suggested. I wish it would have come around the first time instead of the orignial HARP program. Allowing homeowners, who are current on the mortgage payments, refinance without the requirement of an appraisal should have been the first step, not one towards the end. It helps create an immediate increase in monthly cash flow. The original HARP program required you to be behind on your mortgage and that is typically already too late.

I also think any mortgage program should require a minimum of 10% down on the purchase price, not the appraised value. I would actually want a 20% requirment, but 10% is a start.

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This chart keeps reminding me that I will have to work for “several” more years before I can retire. After refinancing my home with a 15 year mortgage, I feel a little relief even though the value has fallen!

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““The private sector is doing just fine.”— Pres. Barry Obama”

I guess this will be the rightwing loser talking point for awhile.

Bummer cons, you screwed up the economy no matter how much you lie.

On average, Obama has create more jobs EACH MONTH than Bush did over the entire 8 years of his disastrous reign.

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“When did deceit become a virtue in this country? Was it always this way?”

I vote for Dec.23, 1913.

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by the way, folks, next time you hear some dumbass telling you about the Social Security “ponzi scheme” and how Americans just need to be able to set aside a few more bucks for a private investment portfolio to make up the difference?

Look long and hard at those median net worth numbers from between, oh, 20 to 79.9 percent.

Try to imagine ALL those households somehow getting up to speed in a short time without a government regulated pension program, with that net worth.

Go ahead.

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Turn off your computers and go buy some stuff!

Or, jump over to Sears.com and buy some stuff. Don’t matter…but the mom-n-pop shops could use some spend.

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Joseph, you mean the Senate that doesn’t have a needed Dem super majority? The same Senate where Republicans voted down women having access to equal pay recently?

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I belive Romney when he says he is not concerned about the poor and he likes to fire people.

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Agree with Granny — my net worth has dropped about 30% since the bubble burst, including my home value and all of my, very diversified investments. I’ve seen some recovery but not nearly enough. Fortunately, I can still live comfortably and am not upside down on my mortgage but I do keep a close eye on spending. May have to work a few extra years before I retire but I’ll address that the closer it comes.

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I’d really love to hear Republicans clearly state, just once, what they would have done to have turned this around in 41 months.

I’ve about giving up hope of hearing it, but I’d really love it.

Jay – that chart? Those at the top 10 percent? Those bars aren’t going up high enough. They need a tax cut.

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Can we just call this what it was: The Bush Great Recession?

That’s my lead story headline:
http://www.locustfork.net/

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You mean you can’t live like a Rockefeller off of the ‘perceived’ value of your house?

Who knew?

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But, but, but, James K Polk…

Just thought I’d get that out of the way.

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http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/12/news/economy/food-stamps-middle-class/index.htm?iid=HP_LN

Yep, interesting read StoneThrower.

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Well, I don’t know about you but if I was worth 77,000 bucks there’d be a new doublewide at Simpsons Trailer Park and it’d be mine. Heck, there might could be two of them stacked on top of each other with a elevator. For the life of me I don’t see what these families with all that wealth are griping so much.

But I go for the simple things. A trailer, a pickup, a flat screen TV and some fried pork rinds with a case of beer and I feel like a king. Recession? What recession?

The only ones I don’t want to have these things are the folks I don’t like. Like Those People, the Gays, the Mexicans, and the libruls. I won’t be happy till they’re all begging at a exit ramp with a tin cup in their hand. That’s the reason why this November election is so important. I want to stick it to them—in a Christian way, of course.

Have a good Tuesday everybody.

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Steve, you may want to review that equal pay bill and see it for the sham it was…

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Happily the people here are exempt from the charted downfall because everyone here has been claiming they are way better off than 4 years ago.

Sadly the Foreclosures in my area and according to Sunday’s AJC metro Atlanta continue at a brisk pace along with a huge decline in values.

Glad all you missed the downturn.

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Well, what we in the middle class need to do is look ahead and discover where we will need to defend ourselves. If we aren’t spending money, then companies aren’t making profits, so the wealthy will see less and less income from investments. They are going to be looking for new ways to squeeze blood out of our turnipy arses.

Last time, the “masters of the universe” created the illusion of prosperity for the middle class which spurned us to spend spend spend. What will the illusion be next time? Where will the next bubble be?

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“Super needy attention troll” – that’s funny, coming from the guy who would post “SQUIRREL!”, ad nauseum.

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Didn’t Obama say he wanted to “redistribute” the wealth? It got redistributed. He should be happy now.

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You and Hannity continue to find glee in someone else’s misfortune

Can’t believe I’m writing this, but… I actually thought Sean Hannity had more class than that.

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Mitt’s wealthy and so is Obama…….. so what?

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…please stand up…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxch-yi14BE&feature=related

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Paul – Not a Republican, but I have 2 thoughts on what could have been done to help aid recover quicker. First was what I mentioned above with the HARP2 program. I believe if it had been put in place early on it would have saved many homeowners from foreclosure. If homeowners current on their mortgages had been allowed to refinance their existing 1st mortgage balances without an appraisal, it would have helped by lowering their monthly payment. If you have a 2nd mortgage, this would have been a little more difficult or perhaps not even possible, but it would have helped many who just had a underwater 1st mortgage.

Second thought has to do with the bank regulators. The regulations regarding “Troubled Debt Restructuing” and “Mark to market” accounting make it disadventageous for banks to help a troubled borrower. I am just going on my lowely knowledge of consumer and mortgage loans on the community bank level, but those two policies alone have played a big role in devastating the value of homes. Going along with this, the FDIC loss share program played an even bigger role. (Note: I am not saying we should not have banking regulations. I am saying these 3 were not well conceived and as written and executed by the regulators, have caused signifcant harm.)

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“My piece of the private sector is doing just fine. So sorry to hear that you cons are still losers.”

You’re a happy capitalist then?

Step away from the dark side.

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the cat

June 12th, 2012
10:54 am

It was proven several weeks ago that USMC is really Gomer Pyle.

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Oh, and they have the nerve to call what they do “hard work, ”

I honestly find that aspect of America’s skimmer class the hardest to take.

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Finn McCool: They are going to be looking for new ways to squeeze blood out of our turnipy arses. Last time, the “masters of the universe” created the illusion of prosperity for the middle class which spurned us to spend spend spend. What will the illusion be next time? Where will the next bubble be?

Excellent comments. We (the screwed) do need to think strategically in this regard. The Plutocrats have been thinking strategically for decades, implementing the foundational layers for their feudal utopia one at a time. That sort of wealth accumulation for the few, at the expense of the rest of us, does not happen by accident! There’s always been a plan to it.

We need to plan too, and stop trickling our money upward into the pockets of people who rejoice in our demise.

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“Super needy attention troll.”–Kamchek Thug

— There’s your sign…
(I didn’t realize that JAY had changed his blog rules)

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Where’s my Party?

Thanks much. Those ideas have merit. I’ve said before Pres Obama was, IMHO, a bit slow off the blocks on this. Then again, no one knew for months how horrible and deep it went. Classic assumptions kept getting turned upside down.

And while those ideas do have merit, I do not really think either of them would have been championed by a Republican administration, if Republican efforts to not enforce regulation on the financial industry is a guide.

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Well Finn, like it or not, unless you’re self employed and self sufficient, you depend on the rich to provide you with things. (Like the computer, power supply, and Internet connection you’re using to type on this blog, for example.)

Be self sufficient and give the rich less of your money.

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– that’s funny, coming from the guy who would post “SQUIRREL!”, ad nauseum.

Awww, poor wittle mystery meat. Why so butt hurty this morning? Did I once expose you as susceptible to distraction by shiny objects and tree rats?

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Buy guns. They appreciate
in value and you can shoot
anyone who tries to take
your stuff.

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Grasshopper

June 12th, 2012
10:50 am

Lest you forget — we HAD a businessman as President — one who LOST money as an oil man; one who LOST ownership of a major league baseball team; one who borrowed money from the bin Laden family to fund his lost oil venture….and that businessman nearly crashed the American economy….GEORGE W. BUSH!! Look where we are now after having a BUSINESSMAN run the nation!!!

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Steve:

The same Senate that has failed leadership in Harriot Reid just like failed leadership in the White House. Failures at every turn that so happens to be run by dems….

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Obama telling us the private sector is doing fine is like telling a cancer patient who’s hair is falling out they are doing fine….

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Demoncrats beleive that gubmint will solve all our problems… That’s simply not the case….

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Finn,

We should have meetings. Heh… Yes, underground economy. Yard sales, barters, and trades are a good place to start. I’ve already rejected the technology imperative. Too many people shop to fill a void in their spirits, thinking that the latest greatest new piece of technology will make their lives full. Guess what? It doesn’t work.

I also choose small business over chain stores or restaurants whenever possible.

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Looks like a slow day in laa laa liberal land… Not many misguided fools spewing today…

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USMC-you do understand when you post There’s Your Sign-it means one is posting the obvious, right? You are now embarrasing yourself.

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” I’m not concerned about the very poor ” Mitt Romney 2/1/12

Truer words were never spoken by the Mitt.

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People of limited intelligence who lack critical thinking or analytical skills, who parrot talking points from their favorite hate media and pretend it came from their own feeble minds think that “Demoncrats beleive that gubmint will solve all our problems.”

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yes, cons, there are consequences to
deregulated supply side jaysus laissez faire voodoo.
consequences for willful ignorance as a party platform
consequences for ignoring the sea level getting higher
consequences for ignoring science
consequences for dividing america with the filibuster
consequences for tanking the economy
consequences for a 24/7 diet of hate on the radio
consequences for a war on women

It is so hard to watch from de island – hard to watch
you learn ‘we’re all in this together’ the hard way, mon

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You’re a happy capitalist then?

Step away from the dark side.

Nothing wrong with being partly capitalist. Well, there might be down the road. But for now, it’s perfectly fine to generate wealth from nothing and make sure others don’t have that same opportunity. That would be socialist, and we can’t have that.

Perhaps it’s time to admit we all like money, but we try as a society to balance that desire against making other people suffer needlessly. And by suffer I don’t mean simply taking money away, though I am sure a wealthy person who is secure in that wealth might take it that way. You’d be SO HURT if the government took a measly extra 3% from the money you make ABOVE one million dollars per year…..

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Mitt actually said..”I don’t worry about the very poor because they have a safety net.”

Did Obama have a qualifier when he said “the private sector is doing fine”?..serious question

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When people are allowed to buy homes that they could not afford without making any downpayment and they are considered to have wealth when in reality all they have is debt, then the graph means nothing. People were buying $300,000 homes with an income that could not support the payment and their level of wealth reportedly increased, that’s the problem with this graph. Garbage in garbage out. We are a nation that can’t afford to pay it’s bill without borrowing made up of people that can’t afford to pay their bill without borrowing. I think every home should have a printing press then problem solved!

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“Demoncrats beleive that gubmint will solve all our problems… That’s simply not the case….”–Joseph

I am not sure DemocRats really “believe” that. That’s what they are TOLD to say and repeat. Many of them don’t think for themselves or develop critical thinking skills.
They are loaded up on buses and told who to vote for or “protest” against.
Most of that philosophy comes from pure wealth envy and hatred of those who have gone out and succeeded on their own. …

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Or – in the new American value, you should have screwed them first.

New wristbands coming to a Christian book store near you — WWJS — Who Would Jesus Screw.

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Kamchak – Depends on what state you are in and where the thief is. In Georgia if he is inside your house you can blow him away .

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All’s I know is what Granddaddy taught me:
(1) if outgo exceeds income, you’re in trouble
(2) if the red column is more than the black column, you’re in trouble
(3) if you can’t pay cash for it, you can’t afford it

Simplistic, maybe, but it’s worked for me…

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Oblama

“What does Obama mean by redistribution of the wealth? Is he talking about the government creating a climate, through taxation and regulation, that would move financially better off people’s money to less better of people? Who does he choose to move the money to and who does he choose to take it from?”

Are you one of those layabout liberals who don’t like to work (do your own research) and expect other people to spoon-feed you?

There’s a little bar at the top of your browser. Type in http://www.google.com and enter words describing what you want to learn about. But we advised, just ’cause someone put something on the Web doesn’t mean it’s accurate. You have to cross-reference sources and investigate the background of the site you’re on.

C’mon, Oblama, you can do it!!!!

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Oblama

Or, see those words in blue in my post? Just click on them with your mouse, and presto-chango, it’ll take you to The Magic Google!

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@ Paul — and PROUD of it….oh, gay marriage proponent as well….

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Mitt actually said..”I don’t worry about the very poor because they have a safety net.”

Tell us again what the Ryan/Romney budget proposal does to “safety nets”. In summary, it amounts to:

“I don’t worry about the poor.” – Mitt Romney

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St. Simons – Thanks for the regurgitation of left wing talking points but I’m a little confused on the “ignoring science” comment. What science, exactly? Filibusters? Dems have NEVER used filibusters. Hate radio? It’s a free country, start your own radio show from a left leaning perspective and see how well your ratings do.

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Both Sides Suck – Good NO answer. I’ll answer your question when you answer mine. I asked you first.

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If a burglar presents a
threat to you or anyone
else you can shoot him in
Georgia.

Yes frog, I understand that.

But your original post only focused on defending against “anyone who tries to take
your stuff.”

This is not the kind of talk that responsible gun owners should be engaging in.

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TP…Just trying to add context to the reality of the statement…never said I agreed or disagreed with the statement….funny no one wants to answer the question except maybe my fellow feline…if you intend to quote Mitt disingenuously then it should be:
“I don’t worry about the very poor…” the 3 dots indicate that you cherry picked the quote.
To your comment, if you watch the vid where Mitt says that..he follows with how he would bolster the safety net….but I know that doesn’t fit your narrative

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josef – ’simplistic, maybe, but it’s worked for me…’

if you get tired of teaching/writing, I’ve got several ceos that need to
hear that speech – ever think of padding that resume?

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Kamchak
If you dont shoot a gun
you are better off with a
stick for defense. When do
responsible gun owners
shoot an intruder?

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Romney is the settle for candidate. I do not know of a single republican in my neck of the woods that liked or would consider voting for him until he became the last man standing.

Obama 2012

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Oblama

Look in the mirror much

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USMC: “..That’s what they are TOLD to say and repeat. Many of them don’t think for themselves or develop critical thinking skills.”

Isn’t that the mantra of Fox News? Are you mistaken ….again? Say it can’t be so!

Oh and waiting for your response from my question above.

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Now for some comedy relief…

JOAN RIVERS TO OBAMA: DON’T REDISTRIBUTE MY HARD-EARNED CASH…
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77287.html

Now back to the news… THIS JUST IN…

Now that the Obama Administration has hit the RESTART BUTTON with Russia, they are now pivoting to JOBS, JOBS, JOBS…

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“Did Obama have a qualifier when he said “the private sector is doing fine”?..serious question:

That would be yes. He clarified his comment the next day.

I see the wingers are especially edgy today. I guess they are realizing that Romney is going to be bigger election day disaster than McCain was.

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USMC: The Republicans haven’t been on jobs since before they won back the house. When are THEY going to pivot to that in some actual action? And I don’t mean tax and regulation cuts, because those don’t actually create jobs.

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Kamchak
Waiting to determine if
an intruder is armed before
you shoot you better
be prepared to die.

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Adam – what, in your opinion, creates jobs?

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Those stinking, evil, scumbag rich people, stealing all that money. How dare they, maybe we should gather up some rope and find the highest tree and take care of them….

You people are such sheep, the President has decide that since he has been unable to stop the economic decline of this country, then he has to find someone to blame it on, I know lets blame it on a group whith one of the smallest populations of the country that was probably not going to vote for me anyways. Lets feed on people envy and need to point blame someone else.

Before you start talking about how I am a stupid, neo-con republican jerk, I am not a Republican but a Libertarian. I am for making drugs legal, gay marriage, taking the church out of politics, pro-choice, cutting the defence budget. I am just sick and tired of people trying to divide this countries people, Bush did and now Obama is doing it. We need everyone to get out of this mess, we need real leadership, not like what is coming from Dems or Repubs.

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So the study confirms that wealth peaked during the Bush Administration, and hit bottom during the Obama regime. We knew that. Nothing new here. Missing from the previous synopsis was the government statement that very little had changed since 2010, but then we knew that too. We also knew that the mortgage crisis, inflated value and the subsequent crash in housing were caused by the Federal Government’s Fannie and Freddie lending rules the liberals so loved. Now of course, it was Bush’s fault, the banks fault, wall street. etc. adinfinitum but not the Solyndra type loans forced on the market by Barney Frank and his Democrat buddies. The lefts solution is to increase the power of the same people who caused the problem. Future generations will never believe our present generation were this stupid.

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P – I already know the answer to my question. I was asking for your OPINION. Do you wish to answer the question? If it makes you uncomfortable you can pass.

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Chuck, you have to choose who causes the least damage, not a good choice but the only choice.

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Chuck, do you willingly give up your social security benefits and will you stay on private health insurance when Medicaid kicks in?

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Vote for MITT and he will change all of that around in one Term…Why? because he is a Business Man, A very wealthy Business Man and he knows exactly what to do. He alone is the only one that
can save America from this financial Mess!

So was George Bush… your point ?

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SfD — “Can’t believe I’m writing this, but… I actually thought Sean Hannity had more class than that.”

You must be kidding. Even when I was still an R, Hannity was the FIRST conservative radio blowhard I stopped listening to.

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Verbal Knit – Adam has no clue of who or what creates jobs. He does know Obama take claim for all job creation.

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So the study confirms that wealth peaked during the Bush Administration, and hit bottom during the Obama regime.

Of course it did. and did the same as we almost had a DEPRESSION from the Bush Administration running of America !

Duhhhhhhh so what is the point ?

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You must be kidding. Even when I was still an R, Hannity was the FIRST conservative radio blowhard I stopped listening to.

JHM, what I’m saying is, I thought even an irredeemable a##hole like Hannity wouldn’t make light of something like the Commerce Secretary’s medical condition (given that, by Hannity’s afternoon slot, it was well known that he wasn’t drinking or on drugs).

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Future generations will never believe our present generation were this stupid.

I agree. they will be paying for the BUSH Wars that were never funded ! Those Cost Plus Contracts, and …… ” deficits don’t matter ” …… should piss them right off !

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stands-um no. I was stuck in a car with the radio tuned into Hannity about 4pm yesterday and he was still implying drugs and alcohol caused the crash. Shameless.

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Erwin

You might consider “I don’t care about the very poor” and “The private sector is doing fine” as Shrodinger’s quotes.

You don’t really know what was meant unless you look.

A concept you get and I get…..but many on this blog either just can’t because of some intellectual malaise or they just prefer to mislead.

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Verbal knit – Make work temp jobs Obama does take credit for. Lot’s of people work for the government.

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Atlas Shrugging — “When people are allowed to buy homes that they could not afford without making any downpayment and they are considered to have wealth when in reality all they have is debt, then the graph means nothing. People were buying $300,000 homes with an income that could not support the payment and their level of wealth reportedly increased, that’s the problem with this graph.”

I agree. It’s a shame that so many lending institutions engaged in that sort of practice.

However and preemptively, the CRA had nothing whatsoever to do with that. The CRA requires *higher* levels of documentation than do the ‘Liar’ and ‘NINJA’ loans you are describing. Not only that, but 80% of the subprime loans made in the runup to the market crash were made by outfits not subject to the CRA.

If you agree with me that those practices were a problem, then do have the character to choose the right targets of your outrage.

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he was still implying drugs and alcohol caused the crash

I guess we have the latest nutbag conservative conspiracy theory all ready to go then. Jeez.

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Peter

Please share your wisdom with us by explaining what programs Obama is paying for? He has spent more money, run bigger deficits than any president in history and is yet to pay one penney of the 6 trillion dollars he has over spent revenue!

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Chuck – you trust your money in the stock market? Most of us have had flat earnings these last 15 years due to the economy. I keep putting money in there yet I’m not getting the return I want, and I fear losing it all if we go into another great recession or depression before I retire.

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SS is a great program for Americans, since folks are living longer it only makes sense to raise the amount taken out for ss. Its a social program, not a retirement plan or an investment.

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K’Chak — “When the intruder is also armed. If you shoot an intruder who is only armed with burglary tools, be prepared to go to jail.”

Respectfully, my wife and I were told otherwise by a GA LEO some years ago. According to him, if both the guy’s feet were inside the door, then it was a free-fire zone under GA law.

Perhaps someone can comment knowledgeably on the current state of GA law in this area.

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Adam – thank you for demonstrating a run-on sentence…Mitts however was not.

Again Adam…what did Obama follow with that added context?

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Mighty, that’s a lie and Jay has posted serious data that proves you flat wrong about Obama’s “spending.”
Much of our debt is an accumulation of what has happened a decade prior, kiddo.

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If you bought a house and still have it, you have what you bought.

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Erwin: Sorry I missed your last part. Here’s the whole quote:

“The truth of the matter is that, as I said we’ve created 4.3 million jobs over the last two — 27 months; over 800,000 just this year alone. The private sector is doing fine. Where we’re seeing weaknesses in our economy have to do with state and local government, oftentimes cuts initiated by, you know, governors or mayors who are not getting the kind of help that they have in the past from the federal government and who don’t have the same kind of flexibility as the federal government in dealing with fewer revenues coming in.”

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/jun/08/context-private-sector-doing-fine/

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SfD — “JHM, what I’m saying is, I thought even an irredeemable a##hole like Hannity wouldn’t make light of something like the Commerce Secretary’s medical condition”

I can’t speak for Hannity in that regard, but it wasn’t that long ago that Rush was making fun of Michael J. Fox’s condition.

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Steve I trusted most of my money to precious metals, it never fails when the economy goes belly up so does the price of gold and silver. Short term you may lose some money in the market, but over the long haul that usually is not the case.

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Erwin: Mitts however was not.

Yes it was. Here’s his “sentence” according to you: “I’m not concerned about the very poor, we have a safety net there”

Here’s how it was quoted on another site:

“I’m in this race because I care about Americans. I’m not concerned about the very poor. We have a safety net there. If it needs repair, I’ll fix it”

That’s because those are all complete thoughts.

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According to the chart, net worth reached its peak and began to plummet in 2007–In January of that year democrats took the house and senate. Between that period and 2010 average family lost 40% of net worth. TEA party candidates took seats in house in January 2011.
Our family *did everything right* and *with integrity* as well, did ok, and do not blame anyone. A small side business taking advantage of the dot com bubble helped a bit, but we realized that the end of the Y2K hysteria would end the profits so got out early.

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“I trusted most of my money to precious metals”

Did you really receive it in 10 days or less?

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making fun of Michael J. Fox’s condition.

I’m not sure I ever properly thanked Rush for delivering Claire McCaskill to the Senate in 2006.

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Oblama — “Mama- That is the current law. If the intruder, while climbing in your window, is shot and falls inside your home you are within the law. If he falls out on the lawn you have a potential problem.”

That’s kinda what the cop told us. He said that if the burglar fell back outside the door, then we should try to drag him back in before he managed to bleed on the steps. I think he was only partly joking when he said that.

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Okay Adam..I’ll take that…if only because there are better things to debate

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Joe Hussein Mama

On 2 of my properties I do have well water thank you, plus I was talking about the Federal government.
As for the post office, as poor run and mismanaged that is, I would rather use the internet and UPS, who mails letters anymore.

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Chuck should hope he doesn’t have to take the socialist highways to work if he has a long commute, either…or any of the state or local roads for that matter. Government funded infrastructure be damned!

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“What if you grab his arm, shoot him point blank, and drag him inside?”

That is not a bad plan.

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Joe Hussein Mama

This was discussed a couple of months ago, complete with copy/pasted laws from both Ga. and N.C., and it boils down to a threat of bodily harm by a weapon of the intruder.

Simply defending “stuff” does not allow for the use of deadly force.

But my original point remains, tough talk about shooting others only to defend “stuff” doesn’t further the cause for gun ownership.

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When Middle Class Americans’ net worth rose dramatically prior to 1989 due to escalating real estate prices, were we stealing from the rich then?

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The con’s end game is for the wealthy to control all the wealth so there is no way for their kids to make a living.

Self defeatism for the brainwashed kooks.

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Capital=wealth=investment=stuff=need for people=jobs……..Government=collect all you can=support half not supporting themselves. …………Greed is good……..And Obama telling all he didn’t HAVE TIME to go to Wis. to help………..LOL………..11 fund raisers the previous 48 hours before election, 5 or 6 pretty close by…………..Does he think anyone believes him?

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Oblama — “Mama – You could drag him inside but that would be tampering with evidence.”

My thought would be to take an extra second or two to aim and let him get inside the door. If one of us lays down flat on the upstairs hall, we have an *excellent* field of vision for any one coming in either door — while we present almost no target at all.

That said, my wife’s piece is a Mossberg 410 pump action with a pistol-grip slide. I load it with triple-ought shot, giving her three chances to ventilate any burglars with any single shot. I prefer revolvers, myself; easier to handle and aim in close quarters like a house.

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My feelings are if someone will walk away from their ss and accept it as loss means they must not have worked for it, it was easy money. If you won’t defend what you work for, why do you work ? The program will have to change due to demographics, but that doesn’t mean those who paid in should just give up and write it off. The GOP gives up too easy on hard questions that involve money.

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“Typical liberal think is government creates jobs. ”

So military contractors as well as others who contract to sell products or services would have the same exact number of employees if the government stops buying the service or product?
Example?

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Chuck — “As for the post office, as poor run and mismanaged that is, I would rather use the internet and UPS, who mails letters anymore.”

I would, especially legal documents. Furthermore, I’ve worked for UPS and I will *always* choose another option if at all possible. You can complain about the USPS, but the difference in accountability and responsiveness when a shipment is lost or destroyed is night an day. UPS wants as much as two weeks just to do research, whereas the USPS has paid me on the spot *twice* for lost items. You just try to get that level of service from UPS or Fedex.

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On 2 of my properties I do have well water thank you, plus I was talking about the Federal government.

The same Federal government that built the interstate system that supplies the markets with the food you eat?

Or do you raise all your vegetables, cows chickens, pigs, fish, shrimp, crab as well?

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“Government=collect all you can=support half not supporting themselves. ”

Do you mean those that do not pay any Fed Inc Taxes?

You do know that some of the lower ranking enlisted personnel that have served in Iraq and Afghanistan meet that criteria, right?

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The folks making the military hardware do it for PROFIT, not patriotism. They pay taxes. THEY NEED WORKERS. So, yes, government needs is a by product of those type products………But we all know the management of the Fed’s ( under either party) is horrible, so the military product providers are really getting rich.

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Chuck reminds me of some of my neighbors who are on medicare and absolutely outraged at the ‘gov’t takeover of healthcare!’

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Chuck — “I would not know I do not listen to talk radio.”

If you don’t know whether you’re holding bullion or not, then I strongly recommend that you FIND OUT. You have a much greater tax liability if you’re holding non-bullion gold, especially coins.

If it turns out that you are, in fact, holding non-bullion gold, then I suggest you meet with a financial and tax professional on the matter.

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SfD — “in a .410 shell that’s, what, three pellets?”

Correct. They’re ~.38-cal pellets, IIRC.

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My uber conservative grandparents were racist and voted GOP. Hated govt programs. When my grandfather got Alzheimers, I remember my Grandma boasting to me that it only cost her $300/month to put him in a nice home a mile from their house, close enough to walk to, and she was going to get to keep her house, thanks to Medicare. W/out Medicare, this would have cost her $3000+ a month and she would have lost everything. The irony of this situation kills me. (and of course it was great for her and I was happy for her).

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Wealth does not create jobs. Wealth is created for business owners when an expanding customer base (the middle class) purchases more of the product made by that business thus increasing the profit. This demand from the expanding customer base creates jobs. Which in turn further expands the customer base and increases the wealth of the business owners.

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Correct. They’re ~.38-cal pellets, IIRC.

argh. I re-read your post and realized you’d already answered the question with “three chances to ventilate any burglars.”

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Chuck:

http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/24/news…lose/?iref=NS1

Quote:
Even though it’s a federal agency, the Postal Service has not received any taxpayer funding since the early 1980s, when it was phased into an independent, self-sufficient financial entity.

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national defense is paramount and a responsibility of our gov’t per the constitution…..liberals, what part of that do you not understand……redistribution per obama is not…..easy

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Since the chart was created, the stock market is up 20%, so we can assume the recovery of net worth has begun. Also, housing markets are recovering in several areas, so that will also help. Given the low interest rates vulture investors can buy houses and rent them at a profit. That will also stabilize the market.
The comments about Obama and the market remind me of Boortz’s special discussion in April of 2009. He and his callers agreed that no one would invest in the stock market with a socialist in the White House. Of course the market is up about 75% since that diatribe. I find Boortz to be one of the best contrarian indicators about markets in that he is almost always wrong.
I have one question about the etiquette of shooting discussed above. Since the CDC studies showed that more Americans shoot family members and neighbors than shoot intruders, do the same rules apply? That is, should you wait until your neighbor is inside your house before you shoot him? If that were the case, did George Zimmerman violate the etiquette of shooting his neighbor while on a sidewalk.

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Chuck — “Joe Hussein Mama the biggest differnece between the post office and UPS or Fed Ex is that the Post office does not have to make a profit, The post office, may not lose alot of mail, but they do lose massive amounts of money, like every other department of the government , doesn’t matter they will just take more from me and you, no reason to ever get better.”

I’d rather have a reliable and responsive government service that costs me tax money than an unresponsive and inefficient business providing the SAME service, but which does a WORSE job at it and is more concerned with providing profit to investors than in providing good service to its customers.

UPS, Fedex and the rest can kizmiaz. USPS forever, and quit using them if you don’t like them.

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I’m beginning to wonder if the republicans posting on here are representative of the entire party. Seriously- some of the most uneducated, clueless folks ever. People-at least watch some mainstream news shows and read some main stream newspapers and educate yourselves.

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It’s childish to complain about it.

It’s toolish to repeat it.

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TBS — “Go down to Columbus (Ft Benning) or Hinseville (Ft Stewert) and ask the Chamber of Commerce and local officials if the troops and their families being stationed on those basis result in JOB CREATION in those two towns.”

IMO, one of the most secure small businesses one could ever own would be a drycleaner/laundry shop just across the street from a military post. Do a good job on servicemen’s uniforms and you’d never want for customers. Add a couple of seamstresses to sew on buttons, name tapes, make repairs, and you’d be set for life.

Except, of course, you’d be relying on the GUBMINT for all your business, so it’d be dirty money, right?

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All that “wealth” before the “collapse” was just phony wealth created when all us suckers fell for the no down payment loans, ARMs, and luxury items we couldn’t afford scams.

Thw wealth never was there; we just thought it was. Now we can pay the price.

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the cat,

They are that ignorant. They read nothing but negative on drudgey and brainwashed by fox news.

They are America’s self defeatists..

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foolish for you to ignore it…

to ignore WHAT? the fact that you are NEVER, EVER, EVER going to get back, in goods and services, precisely the same amount you pay out in taxes? That such a thing would be impossible to accomplish? Whether we’re talking about in any given year, or over the course of any individual taxpayer’s lifetime?

Some day I do hope you’ll wake up and realize just how badly you’ve been played.

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“The uberwealthy could lead the way by re-DISTRIBUTING their wealth instead of hoarding it under the metaphorical mattress…”

Especially as they would certainly get it back…eventually…in the form of more customers for the businesses upon which their wealth depends.

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but what is the problem with redistribution?

No problem at all, which was the point I was making. We have a government so that we can lead civilized lives. Some people need to pay in more than they get back; some people need to get back more than they pay in. It’s been like that since the first hominid tribes figured out how to pool their resources.

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The cat,

cons are like children that will never admit they are wrong and think it is some kind of game.

You are arguing with children with no personal responsibility and lost their family values to determine right from wrong.

I have been arguing with cons for a long time and they and their corrupt party will never change.

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The canaries were dying in the mines long before the world realized they were broke. We were entering new underwriting territory for refinanced loans at 125% of the appraised value of your home. Nobody is going to walk away from his or her home was the theory. No doc loans where with these soaring appraisal prices they equity was all they needed. The equity turned out to be confederate money, printed up like a banana republic. MAI was made as instructed, then used the sale of one MAI home as comparable for the next MAI, creating value in the minds of once in a life time buyers with no feel for the market and everybody giving advice on a commission cut, so the higher the price the more money was made. On the other end Wall Street was selling this fish in a barrel securities to baby booming pension funds desperate to find a steady safe investment that took little research and made lots of fees for the seller of mass.

Then the Republicans park this wreaked vehicle gives the keys to Obama and call the police and report a wreaked car. Most fat dumb happy Americans didn’t know what had happened until months into the Obama administration and now believe the same drivers of the car should have the keys back.

This stuff is not fixed after the house blows up, it has to be done with preventive measures. Smart guys on Wall Street saw this coming and bought shorts on MBSs. The same feds who think they are stopping inside trading should have had enough information to see this coming, there are people with less resources who did and the proof is the fortune they made off of it. You get the idea our agencies that was paid by the tax payers in the Republican administration took those jobs as perks with not much intention of having to work, because no work was getting done.

It is now coming out that Morgan Stanley knew they had a problem with this “Whale” trader a year ago. Yet the man goes about his destruction as if every day is Christmas, for a year. Now he has all those millions from commission, and they think the punishment is letting him go. I would love some good reporter telling us where the Whale is now, probably in the water again with a fund or Wall Street firm not missing a beat. This is the one thing I see wrong on the Obama watch.

What I do not like about the Republican Party is there is no preventive medicine, these unexpected bombs go off all through their administration each one preventable including 9/11, New Orleans and this economic disaster. They spend too much time in leisure and too little time watching the signals of our time. They brag that no other disaster happened on their watch after 9/11, well no 9/11 happened on any other watch but theirs, before or afterwards, and I consider this economic disaster as big as 9/11 and it was on their sleepy watch as was the homeland disaster of New Orleans.

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Jay

How about an article relating to Lindsey Graham’s comments on new tax pledges?

I’m sure talk radio pundits are having a field day with him today……….

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Now union members are deserting Obama…
http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/washington-secrets/2012/06/now-union-members-are-deserting-obama/721241

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GT, do you work with Frank and Dodd ? George Bush mentioned NINE times that these loans would create problems but you know what Frank said , don’t you.

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ken

Not discounting Freddie and Fannie’s role, however you do know that the majority of these BS loans were not Frannie and Freddie, “don’t you”?

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usmc

I think that steel cap in your head is starting cut into your microscopic brain cells! As if union members are going toward romney? No, the sky is not falling mr. jarhead…

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**The biggest caveat of this article which Jay and the libs ignore is the fact that while many homeowners have lost value in their house this presents a remarkable buying opportunity for new entrants into the housing market and for people looking to upsize their homes.**

Dude, have you tried to get a mortgage loan these days? Better be able to come up with 20% or fuhgetaboutit…

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Maybe somebody can help me out here. Let’s take any one of the uberwealthy, and I’m just as satisfied if you choose Soros or Buffett. Where is their money? How many jobs is it creating? Let’s say s/he owns X percent of Company Y. Company Y employs Z number of people. How many jobs does that X percent “fund?”

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josef

So you’re looking for simple answers to complex questions? This ain’t the place…

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Gemme’ back my bullets — the problem with wealth.

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Where is their money? How many jobs is it creating?

There you go trying to get people to THINK.

Logic dictates that one who gets 300 times more money than the average middle class person does not buy 300 times more of all the same stuff. There’s a limit on what you will actually buy with wealth.

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He has spent more money, run bigger deficits than any president in history.

Prove this statement please !

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Thulsa Doom: In short incentive.

Find me even one person who sits on their butt at home because they don’t want to work and want everything handed to them. Besides retirees of course.

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Adam @ 1:05

My point about the lower ranking enlisted personnel has absolutely nothing do with with your comment about “self made manly men”.

My point is that their pay and if they have kids and qualify for EITC includes them in the 50% of so that do not pay Fed Inc Tax. Some on this blog make a point to go after that 50%, yet say they support all military personnel. Well some in the military are in that 50% who they belittle for not pay Fed Inc Taxes.

Nothing to do with how manly they are or are not.

Although he is a retied officer, when my dad joined the Army in 1963 as an enlisted man, he was making 80.00 or so per MONTH.

My post had nothing to do with making jabs at the military

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josef

Nice questions..but..I wouldn’t expect many cogent replies…

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E.Cobb RINO @ 12:45 — and just imagine the pay that our teachers, police officers and firefighters will be making if Etch-A-Sketch and the GOP have their way — oh boy oh boy!

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Mick “Dude, have you tried to get a mortgage loan these days? Better be able to come up with 20% or fuhgetaboutit…”

You mean people now need to actually have money before someone gives them several hundred thousand? That’s absurd… but wasn’t that the norm at some point? People bought what they could afford, lived within their means, etc?

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Wasn’t there a recent blog about the “too big to fail” becoming even bigger? There’s where all that money on the right side of the bar chart came from. Banks make money by loaning money. They don’t care who pays it back because if the private sector does not pay, then future generations will.

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usmc

Really now? It all sounds good but just try, then get back to me…

ps..credit score in the 600’s and they’re gonna give you a loan? Yes, after you come up with 20% down…maybe…

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common

Yes, that was the way it used to be pre-2005 – 2007..

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Adam @ 1:13

As an individual who leans left, I am going to have to disagree with you. Without a long drawn out socio-economic and psychological discussion, there are people who sit at home and do not work nor attempt to do so. With that said, I do not think it is the numbers that many on the right wish to portray when speaking of welfare, food stamps, etc. However those people do exist.

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but what is the problem with redistribution?

It all depends on what is done.

If it’s low interest loans for college students,
if it’s education grants for high achievers who don’t have resources,
if it’s the rebuilding of a crumbling infrastructure,
if it’s the building of infrastructure to meet the needs of current and future economies,
if it’s low interest loans for start up business’s,
if it’s preventive care for those who cannot afford it so they can remain productive as they age,
if it’s research into disease so that those afflicted can remain productive,
if it is research into technology that will benefit future generations and create new industries,
if it is the maintenance of a strong military so that we can defend ourselves now and in the future,
if it is the reduction of the national debt to maintain our economic security for future generations,
if it is conservation and efficiency which benefits all instead of the few,
if it helps people to realize their full potential however great or humble that may be,
then I am all for it.

Cast your bread upon the waters…….

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@mm — The middle class might create demand for products but it takes those with money to meet the demand.

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Thulsa: In fact many of us do not use any of these services in particular

Well darn, you caught me not using a rabbit-hole-prebuttal qualifier!

How about looking at my statement again and not mincing words. We all use government services. Some of us use some and some use others but government services are something ALL of us use.

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“Let’s take any one of the uberwealthy, and I’m just as satisfied if you choose Soros or Buffett.”

josef– why not discuss Alex Rodriguez and any other mult-million $$$ athlete, and how they need to keep getting all the tax cuts because they are “the job creators”? Like how if they had to pay a percentage or two more, they just could not create all those jobs, yes??? Let’s discuss all those “job creators” that the GOP says cannot pay another dime to help our economic mess that the GOP has created!

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Adam @ 1:13 “Find me even one person who sits on their butt at home because they don’t want to work and want everything handed to them. Besides retirees of course.”

Then why do the unemployed need 99 weeks of benefits? If you can’t find a job in almost two years, there is probably a good reason you’re unemployed, and it ain’t the economy..

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TYhey BOTH suck: I was trying to jab at the cognitive dissonance of “Support the troops” and “hate the 50%, no 47%, no 45%, er… the people who never ever take care of themselves on purpose poor!”

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In fact many of us do not use any of these services in particular.

National Defense, roads, and your “good” examples take up most of the budget. So if you ever collect Medicare and SS, you’re b!tching about slivers that you currently don’t personally use.

This puts you in the category of people who hold up the entire checkout line complaining their expired 89 cent coupon can’t be applied to their $147 grocery bill. If you’d man up and admit it’s not about money, maybe you could enter an adult discussion on taxes.

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“Wrong, wrong and triple wrong….every piece of military hardware from the bolts and screws to the engine etc creates jobs!!!! Rethink that bs limbaugh talking point please” …

The above reasoning is why this country is in trouble. This is an example of someone who thinks money just magicly appears for the government to spend. The money never came from tax payers. It will do no good to explain. It is simply beyond their comprehension. Clearly a product of our public school system.

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That top graph should have a dotted line showing “real wealth” without the illusion of wealth that the housing bubble created. If you do that it is easy to see what a disaster this century has been so far.

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josef,

This should explain everything. Liberals are the valley people.

And for once I put together a song I believe you will like- no Iron Maiden or Black Sabbath in this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2zzybffXZI

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Goldie, in that scenario the police, teachers, & firefighters may be better off applying for a job at Subway.

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Adam

Got you. My bad on the interpretation.

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They BOTH suck: I think that is the same lady who hit me over the head with a quiche that was in one hand and followed up with a strike to my mid section with the NY strips she had in the other………

Then left in a Lexus

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Matti
When did deceit become a virtue in this country?
_________________________________________________

GW just followed his masters!!!!!!!!

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They BOTH suck , nine times? And if Bush had told the country nine times someone was going to board a plane and crash into the World Trade Center would no one had listened either. What you present is just more proof how ineffective W was in office. What he accomplished was chasing ghost as the real world was crumbling down around him. You are telling me he was able to get us into a war on false information, embarrassing his secretary of defense and state to the brink of resignation, but even knowing nine statements worth of the economic iceberg coming he couldn’t carry a Congress controlled by his own party to prevent it? Obama gets the health care bill through a monumental task whatever your politics, and your boy knows this thing is coming and can’t get anyone’s attention. Does any of that registrar with you as a problem with Bush’s leadership ability? And now you want to reload with even a even bigger fool, who has even less experience than Bush in Washington? Why?

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“There’s a limit on what you will actually buy with wealth.”

Try me.

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When did deceit become a virtue in this country?

That’s not it. It’s that winning has become more important than honesty.

I’m sure someone out there has a “both sides do that” argument, so how about some examples? I’ll start: Mitt Romney says Obama made the economy worse and last longer. That’s a lie. Your turn.

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GT: And if Bush had told the country nine times someone was going to board a plane and crash into the World Trade Center would no one had listened either.

Why in the hell would Bush be saying anything to the American Public when he could have worked behind the scenes with government agencies to stop it from happening?

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E.Cobb @ 1:28 — scary scenario indeed! The GOP wants to bust up all the progress our public servants have worked toward, and I guess just pay them Subway wages… also, everyone will have to pay individually for any schooling and/or police protection because the GOP says “guv-ment bad”… I sometimes cannot believe the stuff that comes out of the mouths of those people. And they’re supposed to love the US Constitution — go figure!

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“OK, since you are in the real estate biz, I’ll take your word for it but I’ve heard some stories down here in paradise about the difficulty. Must be people with credit scores in the 400’s, 500’s…”–Mick

Mick, most of the issues in getting a loan these days deal with appraisal values/upside down properties, self-employed/1099 borrowers income calculations, Debt to income ratios, etc.
AND now you have about SIX BIG BANKS running the “show” without mortgage brokers to increase competition. The Big Banks do what they want whether for good or bad.

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The consequences of vanishing wealth…

Notwithstanding graphs; charts; explanations; and perhaps even facts, Obama will be tagged with the financial downturns in households across America and he will be roundly rebuked. That is the way it works now as in the past.

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They can’t admit being wrong or it will be looped on corporate media over and over.

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everyone of those a$$holes congressmen talking about cutting government jobs, has a government job. since they sit on their arses and raise money for next campaign, time for them and their staffs to get some cuts big time. cut obama wh 5% and congress by 10%….they need to lead the way.

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Don’t Forget,

I dunno about that. You could have 1,000 laborers willing and ready to work on a project such as a big new coal plant or steel plant. But if the capital is not available to fund a significant project such as the opening of a new steel plant then their available labor is useless. Financial capital and labor capital are both important.

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usmc

In another five years or so, I will be able to sell my current home then buy the next one with good old fashioned cash. Hope my timing is right on the money because in this life – timing is everything!!!

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Let’s see…less to takeaway from the rich and give to the downtroden and low achievers?

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Sadly, when the billionaire’s control all the wealth and there are no jobs for Americans, it will be a total collapse and too late .

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“The middle class might create demand for products but it takes those with money to meet the demand.”

This is the most idiotic rightwing BS I have ever read on this blog.

Really, where do you think “those with money” got their money? Here’s a hint: From the consumer, aka the middle class.

Not all business owners, whether small or large, “have money’. Many are struggling.

It’s pretty scary to think you brainwashed rightwingers are allowed out of your cages.

I’ve created more jobs this year than Bush did in 8.

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Highest national debt in history

Could be said of any time period since WW2, perhaps even earlier.

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Mick: Actually the truth that he’s not acknowledging is that Obama did not cause anything he listed.

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“Let’s see…less to takeaway from the rich and give to the downtroden and low achievers?”

Clearly, all facts say the opposite is happening. Why do cons live in a fairytale?

Guess what cons. You’re getting ripped of by your own party also, you are just too ignorant to notice.

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AND now you have about SIX BIG BANKS running the “show” without mortgage brokers to increase competition. The Big Banks do what they want whether for good or bad.

And so we had a total failure of the “free market” to recognize the housing bubble, fueled by Wall Street obtaining AAA ratings on garbage investments and now we have a failure of “free markets” to compete and provide financing competitively to qualified borrowers. And we have one party that is blind to the limitations and faults of government and one that is blind to the abuses and fallacies of the market but one of those parties takes pledges not to compromise.

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Mick: Notice I don’t grade him out at outstanding or good, just fair and definitely not poor or failing.

WHAT? If you’re not a 100% success you’re a failure. Didn’t you get the memo?

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Mick @ 1:49

My overall assessment is about the same as yours.

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alan simpson…”.if you cannot compromise you have rock for brain”…

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Secondly national defense and the other items you mentioned do not take up the majority of the budget. The entitlement programs do

I mentioned the entitlement SS and Medicare, so quit pretending I didn’t. Are you seriously flailing around, trying to pretend the majority of our tax dollars don’t go towards programs you consider okay?

How about you list how much these programs you don’t like actually cost? Let’s see some maths. Once you admit you’re complaining about relative peanuts while losing large chunks of money for ships that dissolve and planes our pilots don’t want to fly, it becomes quite clear. People who b!tch about shrimp treadmills and section 8 are not motivated by actual cost concern. They have a grudge about specific groups they consider “undeserving.” Your motivation is not financial stability of this nation. It’s about getting those people.

Like I said, admit that and you enter the adult level of discussion.

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They both suck,

I saw them twice in the 80s now that I think about it. First was the piece of mind tour which I think was in 83 or 84 and then the powerslave tour which was in 87. That effing sucks that I’m going to miss them in Lakewood or whatever its called. Damn. Just damn.

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Adam

Re: your 1:36. About 1965, I had a customer who was very wealthy. At that time her husband had died and his estate was in probate. A Nevada bank was required to provide for her living expense while the will was being executed. Her monthly income exceeded my annual income and she was having trouble making ends meet beacuse she had to pay her servants out of the allowance provided by the bank plus utilities on her La Jolla vacation home. What I am saying this lady was rich and I was poor but I had more money left over on pay day than she did. Wealthy people do more than by lots of blue jeans.

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doom

Relax, you’ll be back in time to check out ringo at the fox on july 7th I believe…

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ben

So your social security and medicare are a ripoff? Talk to me when you are 65…

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Mick,

You messin with me- sarcasm maybe? Ringo and the beatles were great. But the Maiden rules!

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does anyone really believe we should not tax folks like the piedmont driving club more?

We need to raise taxes on golfing equipment grasped by buttcheeks. Think of the revenue….

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If Cheesy Grits gets into office two things you can count on.

1. The rich are gonna get ALOT richer, middle class shrinks.
2. The bombs will start dropping on some country of brown people within 6 months.

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1. Cut some social programs ( Democrats will never agree to this ) – except they already did
2. Cut military spending ( Republicans will never agree to this ) – true, in fact they want to increase it
3. Raise taxes ( Republicans will never agree to this ) – true, but now talk about raising FEES and that’s different

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does anyone really believe we should not tax folks like the piedmont driving club more?

What? Tax the talented people? I don’t know about you, but I think it takes real talent to pick up a golf ball with just your butt cheeks while you’re on a green buck-nekkid. Start taxing people like that and pretty soon you’ll have nothing but dull slugs left in this country.

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Poor Ben needs to learn how to optimize his income stream in order to take full advantage of the Bush tax cuts.

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aguagirl, yes as most congressmen are all arse and like to play golf (include bo), we may be able to balance the budget in a few years.

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Can any of you wise lefties point out a time when increased taxes led to less spending by the Federal Government?

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We could use some more of that President Clinton’s peace and prosperity.

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Mighty Righty 2:07

Did someone really say increasing taxes leads to less government spending?

But here’s a question almost the same as yours that I’m sure good conservatives everywhere can answer.

Can any of you conservativees point out a time when decreased taxes led to more spending by the Federal Government?

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Aquagirl,

Oh. And here is that link on spending in the budget. Not sure but I think this is a liberal group.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258

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“I think the big thing that’s holding back financial capital is in one word uncertainty.”

Correct. Everyone is worried abut the GOP defaulting on our debt. Everyone is worried about the GOP making the economy worse through inaction.

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All I hear from you cons is how the debt has exploded under Obama. Romney and the Ryan plan will only increase the debt. Why are you voting for the GOP if the debt is such a concern?

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Mick,

I’m into all kinds of music- hell I even have a carpenters cd for the softer side of Doomy. Quit laughing!

As for uncertainty it may not mean much on the micro side for folks like you and me but on the macro planning side for business they can’t and won’t invest capital on new plant, equipment, expansion, or new hiring unless they feel positive that that capital outlay is going to be necessitated by increased aggregate demand.

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SS cost the Federal gov’t $0. It is prepaid.

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kamchak,

Glad to see you agree. After all John Galt didn’t built that railroad just for the hell of it. He had to know that demand necessitated it.

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“Can any of you conservativees point out a time when decreased taxes led to more spending by the Federal Government?”

Or even when decreased taxes led to DECREASED spending?

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Don’t knock the Carpenters!

Ben Shockley – hope the stock market doesn’t crash right before you retire.

Personally, I’d like to put my retirement into the balance of both 401K/IRA AND social security. If one fails, chances are the other will still be around.

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Ben – its a social program, you need to learn.

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Ben, I can show you how tax increases under Clinton not only tied along with a boosted economy, but we handled our debt for the first time in decades, too.

Any under Eisenhower, we were booming and had much higher tax rates, across the board.

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Jefferson – I guess Ponzi schemes are OK if you affix a fancy label to them. If not…see “Madoff, Bernie”

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After all John Galt didn’t built that railroad just for the hell of it.

Yeah, he pretty much did.

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Ponzi never had a scheme that lasted 75 years, or do you not know who Ponzi was or just talking out of you ass.

SS cost the gov’t 0. Fact.

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wow…
un-freaking believable partisan hackery, Ben. Or should I say, Partisan Hack Clown?

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…can you tell us why the Democrats voted to extend the Bush tax cuts when they still controlled both houses of Congress, and why Obama signed the bill rather than veto it?

UI benefits.

Socialism — BOO!

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“wow…
un-freaking believable partisan hackery, Ben. Or should I say, Partisan Hack Clown?”

Nice non-response Steve.

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Steve,

Clinton also had extraordinary economic winds at his back including oil at $20 a barrel and the opening up of this thing called the internet. Castro could have been president went the internet opened up and the economy would have grown. In actuality it should have grown more than it did given the opening up of the internet information age. And you also forget to mention that Clinton benefitted from the peace dividend with the ending of the cold war under Reagan. I believe military expenditures were reduced by nearly a third.

As for marginal tax rates under Eisenhower and the prosperity aren’t you forgetting a little something Steve? This was right after WW2 and the U.S. at that time was the lone world industrial power- Japan and Europe were decimated and playing catchup for a decade or 2 after the devastation of WW2. Rates had to be reduced in the 60s under JFK because it was becoming a hindrance on the economy as Japan and Europe were recovering from the war and catching up.

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Thulsa, USMC, you are both making the same mistake as me. You are clouding the issues for the libs with facts and reason. They don’t thrive nor prosper in that paradigm.

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Just as I suspected Kamchak is a begrudging John Galt fan.

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…can you tell us why the Democrats voted to extend the Bush tax cuts when they still controlled both houses of Congress, and why Obama signed the bill rather than veto it?
__________________________________

It is called compromise. A word republicans are not familiar with. Dems did not have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate and they wanted to extend unemployment benefits for millions of unemployed. Each side had to give a little. It is how our government is supposed to work. But the party of HELL NO simply does not get it.

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You are clouding the issues for the libs with facts and reason. They don’t thrive nor prosper in that paradigm.

The smoking gun is the mushroom cloud.

Socialism — BOO

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Paul
I wonder if Ben spent any
time in a foxhole, too?
……….
don’t know but i believe he
was avoided by the USAF..

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And here is that link on spending in the budget. Not sure but I think this is a liberal group.

We’re talking about verifiable numbers here. One group may be able to present a slanted picture by grouping categories and being vague but as long as it’s not some random nutcase blog that pulls numbers out of thin air, there’s really no difference.

I prefer the NY Times graphic—it’s much bigger than a pie chart and more detailed. You can also get a true sense of the Defense budget. Veteran’s benefits and military pensions aren’t included in a pie chart but for all intents and purposes, it’s military spending.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/02/01/us/budget.html

When you try to actually pick out the amount spent on some of the right-wing rant targets like the post office, you can see it’s simply not that much.

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Its prepaid with a lot of paper IOUs

and this bullsh-t again?

it was prepaid with actual wages earned by actual people.

that the thieving skimmer class want to renege on this nation’s promise to its workers shouldn’t even enter into the discussion.

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“I wonder if Ben spent any
time in a foxhole, too?”

Nope. Neither did Bill Clinton nor Barack Obama. What exactly is your point?

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“that the thieving skimmer class want to renege on this nation’s promise to its workers shouldn’t even enter into the discussion.”

Actually, when the affluent pay all the bills for the non-contributors, I guess we have to disagree about who is doing the skimming.

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“Paul, why don’t you tell us how $13,144 per year is a good deal for me,”

Ben Shockley thinks the taxes he pays are good or bad based on what he gets out of it.

Ben Shockley thinks if Ben pays taxes to help care for elderly people and orphans and widows that Ben is getting a bad deal.

Ben keeps changing his name because Ben believes that after his arguments are rejected if he reappears with a new name and posts the same thing over and over and over again that people will eventually believe him.

Ben never learns.

barking frog – it’s generally best not to ask a USAF recruiter if he could stop paying taxes and put his money in an investment account and buy his own F-16.

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“You’re citing government bonds as your answer?

Really?”

You seem like a smart guy (at least you think you are) so take $13,144 over 30 years compounded at 2% interest or so, and tell me if you wouldn’t want to have that amount in a bank account instead of the measely little social security monthly payout. We’ll wait.

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Social program not a personal anything.

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A bank account is an IOU, no point.

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compounded at 2% interest or so

2%?

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/government-bonds/us/

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make that “people EARNING minimum wage”

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And it was at this point that “Dreams of my father” was published and evoked a new dream, a new hero, and a new cult of personality to worship.

I wish I was just 32 years old.

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A bank account is an IOU, no point.

And so is paper money, if you want to get technical about it. There’s no intrinsic worth to those greenbacks if the insect overlords take over the Gubmint.

Anyway, I’d love to hang and chat about these fabulous, privately funded, and oh-so-cheap guaranteed annuities that are out there for the taking (which also fund your orphaned kids and whatnot) but, stuff awaits. Be excellent to one another.

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Uh-oh…stands just got blindsided by some facts and simple math and had to bail for the day.

Better luck next time.

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Paul,

That’s interesting that Rumsfeld wanted to do away with those programs and then reincorporate them a generation later with the latest technology at that point. That just seems like common sense considering the substantial technology lead we still have on China.

I think some of us cons need to realize that all defense spending is not good spending(not even close) and that we do indeed need to be very wary of the military-industrial complex. Best example I can think of in current waste is the money we spend on military contractors in Afgh. Numerous front line soldiers have stated that with the waste and the money we spend on U.S. contractors building and doing stuff we could spend on hiring the local populations to do much of the work like digging the ditches for sewers, etc. In terms of pure dollars we spend we could have put the entire country to work and just paid them to do build their own infrastructure. Its hard to fight full time as a rebel when you have a full time wage paying job.

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Ben thinks picking out a subgroup (those who qualify for EIC) proves his point.

Ben thinks that stands for decibels left because Ben is so awesome.

Ben is so silly.

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“Ben thinks picking out a subgroup (those who qualify for EIC) proves his point.
Ben thinks that stands for decibels left because Ben is so awesome.
Ben is so silly.”–Paul

Paul made a funny!

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Poor Ben still hasn’t figured out that those Bush tax cuts could have earned him over $85,000 per year in fed and payroll tax-free income. Now that’s a deal.

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Taxpayer seems to think he knows something about the Bush tax cuts that everyone else doesn’t know. It’s all he talks about. It’s kind of sad, really.

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Jeez, this thing’s still trolling…

$13,144 compounded over 30 years at 2% is $543,891.

um…

http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm

actually it’s 23,808.54.

but ok, I get your point, which is that if you were ADDING this amount every year, its half a million. If you actually get that annual interest rate, which people aren’t these days, but ok.

And if you’re going to draw that same income off of the 2% this is earning, it’s going to pay you an income that’s less than half of what SS actually pays, (and without a COLA). But hey, you’ve got half a million.

Face facts: if you’re not a sociopath who hates your fellow citizens, SS is a great deal. If you’re a name-shifting a-hole who picks fights online, you probably think it’s a cheat. It’s obvious where you stand.

really gone now.

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9.23%

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oh, and thanks Jay, for stating the other obvious thing. you know, the whole “What’s a half million gonna be actually worth” dealie.

really really gone now…

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stands for decibels

Don’t you know that you’re not supposed to be here because Ben overwhelmed you with facts and logic and you can’t handle his intellect so you ran away?

Golly stands, don’t you read any memos?

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Get your corrupt hands off SS and Medicare gop.Period.

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