In another crisis, GOP would let economy collapse
” … under questioning from skeptical Republicans, the director of the nonpartisan (and widely respected) Congressional Budget Office was emphatic about the value of the 2009 stimulus. And, he said, the vast majority of economists agree.
In a survey conducted by the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, 80 percent of economic experts agreed that, because of the stimulus, the U.S. unemployment rate was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been otherwise.
“Only 4 percent disagreed or strongly disagreed,” CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf told the House Budget Committee. “That,” he added, “is a distinct minority.”
Elmendorf’s testimony came in response to questions from Rep. Tim Huelskamp (R-Kan.), a member of the tea party caucus. Huelskamp asserted that the stimulus was a failure because it did not keep the jobless rate below 8 percent, as the Obama administration predicted.
“Where did Washington mess up?” Huelskamp demanded. “Because you’re saying most economists think it should’ve worked. It didn’t.”
Most economists not only think it should have worked; they think it did work, Elmendorf replied. CBO’s own analysis found that the package added as many as 3.3 million jobs to the economy during the second quarter of 2010, and may have prevented the nation from lapsing back into recession.”
Most Republicans cannot bring themselves to admit it, but by any definition the Obama stimulus worked, pulling the economy out of a death spiral that probably would have resulted in a far-worse economic crisis. It’s also pretty damn clear that if similar circumstances should arise again, this Congress would refuse to act as it did three years ago. To the contrary, they would sit back and applaud as it all comes tumbling down around our ears.
Today’s conservative congressional majority also bitterly opposes TARP, which to his credit was pushed by President Bush out of fear that “this sucker could go down.” Despite Bush’s strong support and the insistence of economists across the ideological spectrum, a majority of House Republicans voted against its passage in the crisis of 2008. And of course, today’s GOP caucus is far more conservative than it was four years ago.
In the Senate, 16 of the 30 Republicans who voted in favor of TARP in 2008 will have left either the Senate or the party by the end of this year, many because they no longer are acceptable to the GOP base. That’s a remarkable amount of turnover in a short period of time. Again, most of those 16 have been replaced by far more conservative candidates who would not dare to support passage of TARP-like legislation should the need arise again.
And again, without TARP the entire global financial sector would have imploded upon itself, creating an economic calamity that would make our current problems seem mild.
The same is true of the auto-industry rescue. The current Congress would never have supported its passage. And while Mitt Romney implausibly seeks to take credit for the rebound of the auto industry, it is absolutely clear that under the terms that he insisted upon, the rescue plan could not have happened.
In other words, every major governmental intervention that succeeded in pulling the economy back from the brink in the crisis of 2008-09 would be rejected by those now in control of the U.S. House; passage in the Senate would be much more difficult as well. If we were to face another such challenge — touched off by a crisis in Europe, perhaps, or a major blow-up in the oil-rich Middle East — they would be quite content to stand by and “let this sucker go down.”
Some, I fear, might even take a perverse Puritan-like pleasure in seeing it happen.
– Jay Bookman
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963 comments Add your comment
Mama Says
June 7th, 2012
4:36 pm
Bro I did ask you, you gave me a lecture in response.
And I do know your mindset, you were the one on the union blog arguing that the public unions should have collective bargaining rights, tells me a lot there.
You were also the one who supported the union taking over the Wisconsin state house, a move that is associated to be the very first step in the OWS movement.
You are also the one who tried to tell me that you live in Henry County and the budget there is fine. Even though they have frozen pay for the last 2 years and are talking about furloughs for this year.
I know you, maybe not personally but I know you, I have work with people with your mindset for 25 years. As you said the other day you are a public servant and you want the right to demand the taxpayer gives you more money, so you can live comfortably. I guess while they pay more.
Oh I know you, and your tax bracket has nothing to do with it
Your mindset shows your attitude toward my money. Meaning that you think it’s there for you when u want it.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
June 7th, 2012
4:37 pm
Why do libs want to pay for there social aid programs with other peoples money ?
Oh please! The generalizations are just too much! Why not take a walk on the reality side for a minute. Do you remember this?:
The Democratic Controlled House has voted to reinstate budget rules designed to curb the budget deficit.
The vote was 280-to-154 to reinstate the so-called “pay as you go” rule. It requires that any increase in entitlement spending or tax cut be somehow offset so as to not to increase the deficit.
Another rule change would curb past abuses in which GOP leaders held votes open for hours and excluded minority party lawmakers from House-Senate negotiations on the language of final bills sent to the White House for enactment.
The PAYGO and earmark proposals come a day after Democrats seized control of Congress for the first time in 12 years, with a jubilant Nancy Pelosi becoming the first woman ever to rise to speaker of the House.
“This is an historic moment — for the Congress, and for the women of this country,” Pelosi said Thursday when she took the House gavel. “It is a moment for which we have waited more than 200 years.”
Peadawg
June 7th, 2012
4:37 pm
“But YOU forgot the years of an R-controller Congress that Bush had.”
Really?
Joe Hussein Mama
June 7th, 2012
4:37 pm
ePluribusUnum — “Question: How large was the stimulus that Reagan passed in 1981?
Answer: Zero”
BZZZZZT!
“As a short-run strategy to reduce inflation and lower nominal interest rates, the U.S. borrowed both domestically and abroad to cover the Federal budget deficits, raising the national debt from $997 billion to $2.85 trillion.[15] This led to the U.S. moving from the world’s largest international creditor to the world’s largest debtor nation.[16] Reagan described the new debt as the “greatest disappointment” of his presidency.[17]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics#Policies
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 7th, 2012
4:38 pm
Your mindset shows your attitude toward my money.
There’s you sign.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sheets.
(finally)
Oscar
June 7th, 2012
4:39 pm
ribusUnum — “Question: How large was the stimulus that Reagan passed in 1981?
Answer: Zero”
______
Wrong – a tax cut is a stimulus.
gm
June 7th, 2012
4:40 pm
The fox misinformed idiots news cycle will stop at nothing, Sean the 3 times college drop out had the nerve to call the President of the United States who went to Harvard incompetent, this shows what a bunch low life viewers fox has.
Bush increased the debt every year he was in office without a bad economy but the nut jobs sat their in silents while he had us in 2 wars that were not paid for, lied to American people while over 4500 of our American troops died in Iraq but America should forget this?
They BOTH suck
June 7th, 2012
4:40 pm
Mama says
Bro said they had no rights in terms of bargaining for raises and benefits, I missed where he said they should be able to do as you say.
100.00 bucks to your fav charity if you can find that post to back up your assertion.
Not anyone else, just Mommy
We can exchange emails through Jay if you win.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 7th, 2012
4:42 pm
Peadawg — “Really?”
You certainly appear to have done so.
You keep asking me about Democratic Congresses and associated deficit spending, yet you ignore the fact that I’ve been quite clearly OPPOSED to deficit spending since I got here.
For someone who complains as often as you do about being misclassified as an R, you could certainly stand to pay closer attention to the positions of others yourself,
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
June 7th, 2012
4:45 pm
PDawg – How this for “current events” Until the Dems took back the house in 2010; the house was Republican controlled for 12 years. So let’s do the math on that why don’t we?
That means in 1998 – During the LAST part of Clinton’s presidency, the Repubs took over and held the house until 2010. Theat means they had the house during the Wall street collapse of 2008; Through the deletion of Pay As YOu Go, through the onset of two wars, through stock market collapse of 1999; through the housing burst of 2009 AND through the onset of the most jobs ever lost at one time, (2008).
Is that about right?
Jay
June 7th, 2012
4:46 pm
Wrong – a tax cut is a stimulus.
So is a major boost of defense spending. And since a lot of the defense industry is unionized, that’s a stimulus for union members too!
Sheets.
Butch Cassidy
June 7th, 2012
4:48 pm
Romney Sheets Upstairs!
They BOTH suck
June 7th, 2012
4:48 pm
mama says
The article is from June 4th…….
After perusing through the posts, I wont be paying anything to your fav charity
Be an adult and issue Bro an apology. You were wrong in terms of what he said so admit it
have great day now
ePlurbusUnum
June 7th, 2012
4:52 pm
I agree that a tax rate cut is a stimulus. It’s not borrowing money to then give money away to pay for stuff no one was willing to pay for with their own money (neither states nor private interests). The tax cuts keep the money in the hands of people who make better decisions than the government anyway. At any rate, Reagan’s tax cuts helped the economy grow and boom times ensued. Obama simply had the government print more money, but the economy isn’t growing, just our debt. The $6 Trillion in new debt in the past 3+ years has generated these results:
1) Over 1 million less jobs than there were in Feb. 2009.
2) GDP growth of less than 2% annually.
3) 7 million more people on the unemployment rolls today than there were in Feb. 2009.
4) Total portion of the national debt carried by each infant born today now at about $75,000.
So I’m on board with the Reagan passing a stimulus. He just didn’t print money to stimulate, he allowed the market-based economy to lead the way.
Jay
June 7th, 2012
4:55 pm
“It’s not borrowing money to then give money away to pay for stuff no one was willing to pay for with their own money (neither states nor private interests).
What would you call vastly increasing the deficit to fund an explosion of new defense spending? “Borrowing money to pay for stuff no one was willing to pay for with their own money”?
Mama Says
June 7th, 2012
4:55 pm
Both first of all I have to be clear as to what you are saying that I was wrong about.
Secondly
Why are you defending Bro?
Joe Hussein Mama
June 7th, 2012
4:58 pm
Mama — “Both first of all I have to be clear as to what you are saying that I was wrong about.”
Do you see the parts of your posts that we’re quoting? Those are the things you’re wrong about.
Mama Says
June 7th, 2012
4:58 pm
By the way Both,
If he is for collective bargaining with respect to salary and benefits he is saying he wants the right to demand my money as a taxpayer correct ?
Mama Says
June 7th, 2012
5:00 pm
Joe,
Can you show me a quote that I posted please
Patrick Thompson
June 7th, 2012
5:03 pm
Stalin is alive and well in the GOP, unfortunately, and their ‘leadership’ is taking our country down…while saying the opposite…one of Stalin’s favorite methods…
They BOTH suck
June 7th, 2012
5:03 pm
Mama says reread YOUR post about what you claim Bro asserted. You can start saying what he meant to say or other BS, but you will not find what you asserted
Plain and simple
As nothing to do with defending Bro, however it does have to do with YOUR LIES………..
They BOTH suck
June 7th, 2012
5:04 pm
Mama
Now go find the quote. Shouldn’t take long, right?
You find it and I put up the money for your fav charity.
Simple as that
Mama Says
June 7th, 2012
5:08 pm
Both it must be easier to call me a liar than it is to tell me want I lied about.
Seems you are doing the very thing you accuse me of.
Show me where I lied, should be simple for you to do
They BOTH suck
June 7th, 2012
5:08 pm
Mama
“And I do know your mindset, you were the one on the union blog arguing that the public unions should have collective bargaining rights, tells me a lot there.”
Guess you are looking for the quote or anything close that you can say what was meant by the quote. Actually you are doing neither because you LIED and you know it
And again, have a great day
ePlurbusUnum
June 7th, 2012
5:11 pm
Jay – that increased defense spending won the Cold War. Then, once we had defeated the Communist Soviet Union, we had a defense draw down. See how that works. So, we all like living in freedom and not having to go through drills at school to prepare for a Soviet nuclear missle attack. The American people apparently liked Reagan’s defense build up – they re-elected him in the largest blowout you’ve ever experienced in your life time. But, even with the increased defense spending, the economy grew at 7.2% annually by 1984. That’s how successful Presidents do it. Amatuers, like Obama, are simply incapable of that type of performance because their policies are fundamentally wrong.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 7th, 2012
5:12 pm
“Joe, Can you show me a quote that I posted please”
Sure. Here’s a start for you, Mama:
“What I am really trying to understand is where this anti business, CEO mentality comes from. What drives it ? I mean it seems directed at people simply because they have money.”
You’re jumping to conclusions regarding our attitudes about businesses and CEOs and wealth.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 7th, 2012
5:12 pm
That said, I’m out for the evening. All be well and drive safely.
Mama Says
June 7th, 2012
5:12 pm
Both have you lost your mind . You are quoting me stating my opinion on Bros mindset.
There still is no lie.
He did say he wanted collective bargaining for public servants over salaries and benefits didn’t he.
They BOTH suck
June 7th, 2012
5:13 pm
“As you said the other day you are a public servant and you want the right to demand the taxpayer gives you more money, so you can live comfortably. I guess while they pay more.”
Back up of this assertion?
Thanks
Thulsa Doom
June 7th, 2012
5:13 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
June 7th, 2012
3:38 pm
Doom — “I stand corrected. You were right. He said running up deficits was “unpatriotic”. And now we stand at near 16 trillion in debt.”
And with an R Congress, even. (laughing)
Obama’s first 2 years were with an R Congress? Who knew? The Rs control the Senate today? Who knew?
They BOTH suck
June 7th, 2012
5:15 pm
mama
You back up YOUR assetions, don’t ask me to back them up
I have already looked at his posts from the other day. You are lying or at best misinterpreting what he said to meet your narrative.
So look up the article and post where he said what you asserted.
Really it is that simple
Jay
June 7th, 2012
5:18 pm
Pluribus, if you want to change the topic, that’s fine. But it doesn’t alter the fact that significantly increased defense spending funded through higher deficits IS an economic stimulus. That’s the point we were discussing, not its impact on the Cold War.
They BOTH suck
June 7th, 2012
5:18 pm
mama
Let me help you out. Don’t write anymore checks that your ______ can’t cash.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/06/04/in-wisconsin-a-confident-governor-dreams-big/
Until next time
They BOTH suck
June 7th, 2012
5:24 pm
ePlurbusUnum
Actually you had more than just increased military spending. Ronnie Raygun was spending with the best of them……. Best of all for that time. Dems were right there with him
Do you think it was just the military increases or all the increases that went into helping stimulate the economy?
Mama Says
June 7th, 2012
5:25 pm
No Both you are lying and misrepresenting
Post what he said since you are looking at those post.
He argued for the right of negotiated salary and benefits for public employees.
The fact is, if you knew where the raises came from when public employees get them, is that he wants the rights for government employees to be able to dictate what taxpayers pay in salary. Logic says if he wants the right of collective bargaining he wants the right to demand higher pay, pay that comes from the taxpayer.
Your skewed logic escapes me, think it through. A public servant raise comes from the taxpayers money,
Duh
Brosephus™
June 7th, 2012
5:27 pm
And I do know your mindset, you were the one on the union blog arguing that the public unions should have collective bargaining rights, tells me a lot there.
Hell, I think ALL WORKERS should have collective bargaining rights. What does that tell you?
You were also the one who supported the union taking over the Wisconsin state house, a move that is associated to be the very first step in the OWS movement.
Lie and projection on your part. Pull any post to show that I said as such. I dare you.
You are also the one who tried to tell me that you live in Henry County and the budget there is fine.
While you’re pulling the previous post, pull that one too. I don’t ever recall saying Henry County’s budget was fine. I’ve said that Henry County is fine, and that’s because they have people not afraid to make a decision simply because they’re afraid that they won’t get elected. Nevemind the fact that there’s a snowball’s chance in hell of anything remotely liberal getting elected into office here, yet I still live and have done so proudly for close to 10 years. What does that say about me?
As you said the other day you are a public servant and you want the right to demand the taxpayer gives you more money, so you can live comfortably.
WHile you are pulling the first two, why not add that post to it as well. I told you to move to Henry County and I have no problem paying taxes to keep public sector workers on their jobs. That’s a huge difference between saying I want others to pay for me.
Damn, as I said earlier, if you can’t or won’t use MY words, don’t use projections on me.
Your mindset shows your attitude toward my money. Meaning that you think it’s there for you when u want it.
Here’s my mindset towards your money. F**K YOU AND YOUR MONEY. I have my own job. I buy my own stuff. I pay my own bills. If you don’t like what I do, then get off your ass and protect the borders your damn self.
Mama Says
June 7th, 2012
5:27 pm
POST MY LIE
They BOTH suck
June 7th, 2012
5:32 pm
mama
I posted the link to the article as well as what YOU said Bro said the other day
You have yet to put up anything except a weak tap dance
Done with this.
Bye bye
ePlurbusUnum
June 7th, 2012
5:32 pm
Jay – it was not designed as a “stimulus” to increase defense spending. It was simply an essential service for our country, the same way roads are and ports, etc. But, your original topic was that Obama’s stimulus had “worked”. My point is simply that to claim that the current policies of printing money and calling that stimulus doesn’t work – especially when compared to proven examples where the economy was not just stabilized, but expanded, by market-based policies practiced by President’s like Reagan and Bush.
Here’s a comparison:
Bush came into office on the heels of the Tech Bubble recession. Then 9-11 happened. The economy suffered a double hit. And Bush pushed for tax cuts at the beginning of his administration. When Bush took office in Jan. 2001, there were 138 million people working. When he left office in Jan. 2009, there were 144 million people working – an increase of 6 million jobs despite a horrible starting point. And despite the fact that the economy shed over 1 million jobs between the time Obama was elected in Nov. 2008 and Bush left office in Jan. 2009.
The current President starts with 144 million people working in Jan. 2009. In May 2012, there are only 142 million people working – a loss of 2 million jobs. And you would try to argue that his policies are working? Really? Especially if you compare his results to the results that Reagan and Bush accomplished when facing their own serious economic challenges? Come on.
Brosephus™
June 7th, 2012
5:35 pm
Brosephus™
June 4th, 2012
7:34 pm
have worked public sector for 25 years, you have done both, so I assume you left public and went private.
You assume wrong.
Tell you what since you are so generous tell you family to give me more money, that way my own families taxes will not be raised so I can have a better retirement.
Move to Henry County. Unlike you and some others, I have no problem with paying taxes. I know that things have to be paid for, and I’d much rather pay for them up front as opposed to paying exponentially more down the road. It costs much more to replace poorly maintained infrastructure. It costs much more for insurance to live in an area with bad police/fire coverage.
Working in the public sector now, I also know the difference between stories that talk about “average pay” versus real world. What you fail to see is that, regardless to whether you’re public or private sector, it’s middle class trying to destroy middle class. When we’re all done, there will only be the wealthy and the poor. Unless you run for office, you’re not gonna join the wealthy by working in the public sector.
Brosephus™
June 4th, 2012
8:12 pm
Matter of fact any government employee who is under a union negotiated contract can strike and leave thier post, if they are in a union state.
Feds can’t strike. Fed unions can’t negotiate pay or benefits either. Fed unions are about as dangerous as a toothless nurse shark. However, if one believes the rhetoric, they are worse than the spawn of the spawn of Satan.
And to back up that post…
Moderate Line
June 4th, 2012
8:29 pm
Brosephus™
June 4th, 2012
8:12 pm
Matter of fact any government employee who is under a union negotiated contract can strike and leave thier post, if they are in a union state.
Feds can’t strike. Fed unions can’t negotiate pay or benefits either. Fed unions are about as dangerous as a toothless nurse shark. However, if one believes the rhetoric, they are worse than the spawn of the spawn of Satan.
++++++
Also, most can’t negotiate their wages either. In fact here is what Scot Walker stated “Most federal employees do not have collective bargaining for benefits, nor for pay.” which was rated as true by politifact.com
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/mar/02/scott-walker/wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-says-most-federal-emplo/
Brosephus™
June 4th, 2012
8:48 pm
Bottom line public sector unions are in a unfair position over the taxpayer.
Interesting that you lump all public sector unions in that group when it’s been said over and over ad nauseum that Fed unions can’t negotiate pay and benefits. I guess the rhetoric just won’t die. Maybe Jason, Freddy, Michael, Leatherface, Pinhead and others were all public sector union members too. Couldn’t seem to kill any of them either.
Care to retract now?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 7th, 2012
5:41 pm
Mama Says just got pwned.
Just sayin’.
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
June 7th, 2012
5:48 pm
Jay, sport, you need to get off the mind-altering substances. The stimulus has damn near done us in. Everybody knows that. If the Republicans, taking power in 2013, do absolutely nothing, it would be better than what President Kardashian (I love that moniker) has done.
There are fewer and fewer folks in your alternate reality, Jay. I hope you are not the last one in there, wherever it is.
Mama Says
June 7th, 2012
5:49 pm
Brocephus,
Are are crazy, someone should check you and your ability to carry a gun. Period
You say things in the context of a monetary discussion as to where money comes from and then you say I can’t derive ,y opinion on your thoughts. I never directly quote anyone. As Both has proven by his inability to post any of my quoting you.
By the way you protecting our border isn’t s*it to my chasing murderers, armed robbers, child molesters and rapist? Some of whom i am dealing with are the very people that you claim to protect us from.
Tell you what next time the van of illegals approches the border and you and the other 10 agents you are working with, all of you armed to the teeth, can you stop the murderes instead of letting me do it ?
Not to mention the fact that you are a federal agent for homeland security, I know what your salary is, and if the rest of those who read this blog knew, you wouldn’t open your mouth about public employees and your need to collectively bargin.
Believe me I can cuss you just as good as u can give it and I know what your job is. I also know why you left the private industry as you said you did, your job, in the private industry didn’t pay you what your public sector job does, did it.
When you start your job at 17,000 a year then you can run your mouth, but we both know that isn’t what YOU started at though don’t we ?
And guess what i couldn’t care less how wrong you are.
Just remember to read those folks their rights next time you stop them, you guys forget that from time to time, you know when your standing over them with your machine gun.
Mama Says
June 7th, 2012
5:55 pm
Bro,
I will say this.
I engaged you in a monetary budget issue concerning public employees. If you think you can recite your thoughts for public servant negotiated salaries that’s your thought. But to try and back away from your own position is BS.
Do you or do you not support the right of collective bargaining for us, public servants ?
Jay
June 7th, 2012
5:57 pm
I don’t know where you get your numbers, Pluribus, but they’re wrong. I get mine from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and they tell us:
Employed in Jan. 2001: 132,466,000
Employed in Jan. 2009: 133,561,000
An increase of 1.1 million job over eight years, an average of 130,000 a year, with some 800,000 jobs lost in January 2009 alone. That’s the reality. That’s what you’re trying to sell as strong economic leadership. The guy in there now is just trying to clean up the mess.
JamVet
June 7th, 2012
6:08 pm
Everybody knows that.
What an idiotic thing to say. At least for anyone over the age of eight.
Brosephus™ - "Gimme yo money now, you taxpayers!!!!"
June 7th, 2012
6:10 pm
Mama Says
My current salary now isn’t much more than it was when I was an Operations Manager for Circuit City or when I was a Store Manager for a dollar chain that’s gone out of business. I’ve been working for over 20 years and worked my way from $3.80 an hour to what I make now.
And, yes my current salary is public knowledge and who cares? Any citizen, under the age of 37, can apply and do the same thing I do. I’ve done your murderers, rapists, kiddie porn peddlers, drug smugglers, and guess what, I’ve even had to deal with people on the terrorist watch list. I don’t disrespect what anybody does, but I won’t let somebody disrespect me either.
I’m perfectly sane, but thanks for your concern about my mental health. I’ll pass any test you want to give me whether it’s a polygraph, psych, firearms qual, or any test you can think of.
Very little bothers me, but what does is when people try to “think” for me. I am very capable of doing that for me, and if you want to know what I think, all you have to do is ask.
can you stop the murderes instead of letting me do it ?
IF you catch the murderers before they try to flee the country, I wouldn’t have to. That street runs both ways sister.
know what your salary is, and if the rest of those who read this blog knew, you wouldn’t open your mouth about public employees and your need to collectively bargin.
See, there’s that reading comprehension thing again. What part of “Federal workers can not bargain for wages or benefits” do you not understand? Damn, even Gov. Walker knows that much.
If you really want to know why I’m with DHS now, that’s because the Army rejected me in 2002 because of my bad knee, and the Air Force recruiter never called me back or answered my calls. You’d think that when a potential recruit scores a 98 on the ASVAB and has a BS in Mathematics, they would be a possibly good person to keep in touch with.
When you start your job at 17,000 a year then you can run your mouth, but we both know that isn’t what YOU started at though don’t we ?
No, that’s not what I started out with, but why do I have to live by YOUR decisions or choices in order to be worth anything? I am not you, and obviously I made different choices than what you did. Am I not supposed to pull myself up by my own bootstraps?
ePlurbusUnum
June 7th, 2012
6:10 pm
I get my data from BLS also. Here are the numbers, from their historical tables, of employment:
Dec. 2000 employment = 136.9 million jobs
Dec. 2008 employment = 145.4 million jobs (+ 8.5 million in 8 years under Bush)
May 2012 employment = 142.3 million jobs (-2.1 million in 3+ years under Obama)
Here’s the link so you can view the data yourself:
http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea01.htm (historical data by year)
Fact is that every President has to deal with some sort of “mess” their prior President left for them. Obama has failed where other Presidents since Jimmy Carter have all succeeded.
Brosephus™ - "Gimme yo money now, you taxpayers!!!!"
June 7th, 2012
6:16 pm
Do you or do you not support the right of collective bargaining for us, public servants ?
Once again, I, meaning ME, have no problem with public sector employees having collective bargaining rights IF they are set up as the Fed system currently operates. That means that employees can bargain over workplace things such as scheduling, vacation time, work assignments, shifts, and things like that. What I don’t think needs to be in the bargaining is wages, benefits, or anything that’s directly tied to compensation.
DOes that help you out any better now?
Jay
June 7th, 2012
6:19 pm
Pluribus, total nonfarm employment, BLS:
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ce
It gives it month by month, the month Bush took office and the month he left office.
Mama Says
June 7th, 2012
6:23 pm
Bro,
I should not have disrespected your job, you got me pissed, I am sorry for doing that.
The union discussion we were in on the other day was about public workers in Wisconsin. It was not about Federal workers and you know that.
I never took a shot at federal workers in that blog. I am arguing about state and local workers and you knew that.
I will tell you that in no case that I have worked did I allow a murderer to flee to your hands. You know that for you to be arresting them at the border, the locals have identified them and taken warrants. Unless they stand there and wait for us they are gone when we get there and as you know we very rarely call homeland security to go to the projects with us.
Anyway I stand by my thoughts on collective bargaining for the public sector as well as for calling your job into question.
Mama Says
June 7th, 2012
6:24 pm
I meant for calling your job into question, Bro.
I don’t stand by doing it
ePlurbusUnum
June 7th, 2012
6:30 pm
Jay – people work on farms too. The non-farm statistics are about 10 million below the “all up” stats from the BLS data I’m looking at. I’m most interested in how many total Americans are working. The non-farm data is interesting in that it points to jobs that are more in line with the kind the average person will be looking for. But, first and foremost, we want Americans to have jobs. And we want those jobs to produce valuable goods and services.
Whichever stats you prefer to look at (nonfarm vs all up), this administration’s policies have underperformed vs all other Presidents in our lifetime. Their policies are not working. Without their debt-increasing stimulus spending, things would have gotten worse initially, then the economy would have rebounded. And the rebound would be lasting. Their “stimulus” didn’t prevent increases in unemployment and its effects are not lasting.
Brosephus™
June 7th, 2012
6:41 pm
Mama Says
People get heated at times, so no disrespect taken. I get heated when people “think” for me or say as much. If you’re out there hooking up the bad guys, you’re aware of what being a “Giglio Impaired” officer means. I take a big risk in posting here and other places, but that’s because I enjoy talking with people who have different perspectives. That said, I will fiercely defend my words at all costs because I won’t say anything that jeopardizes my impartiality or, by proxy, my job.
I know the talk was about state and local unions. I don’t like their set ups. When Walker first proposed to change things, I said here on this very blog that he should have used the Fed model. I still think the fed model works because it gives the employees a say in how the workplace operates, but it does not give them a say in what comes out of the taxpayer’s pockets. I also think that all workers in all states should have the right to collectively bargain, whether public or private sector. The main difference is that public sector should not be able to deal with anything monetary related where private sector workers should not have such limits.
If I made it seem like I was trying to ignore the state/local issue, that was not my intent.
JamVet
June 7th, 2012
6:52 pm
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/US_Real_Wages_1964-2004.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics
Whatever it is called, it has contributed to arguably the greatest economic disaster – the decimation of the American middle class – in the history of the republic…
JKL2
June 7th, 2012
7:38 pm
getalife- They are trying to cheat by purging voters in this election.
It’s a real shame when you take away dead people’s right to vote. What are those Republicans thinking…
Melissa Six Birds
June 7th, 2012
11:25 pm
The government has no constitutional authority or powers to save the economy, and only you Marxists would think otherwise. What you advocate is forced-collectivism, forcing people who have, to pay the way of people who don’t have, or redistribution of wealth from the producers to the moochers. “From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.” – Karl Marx
facebook fan
June 8th, 2012
7:17 am
One thing I would like to say is always that before buying more computer system memory, check out the machine into which it can be installed. Should the machine can be running Windows XP, for instance, the actual memory limit is 3.25GB. Using a lot more than this would merely constitute a new waste. Make sure one’s motherboard can handle the upgrade amount, as well. Interesting blog post.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 8th, 2012
9:26 am
Doom — “Obama’s first 2 years were with an R Congress? Who knew?”
Who said they were?
“The Rs control the Senate today? Who knew?”
Who said they did? But you know as well as any of us that spending bills originate in the House.
This is more of your straw-mannery, Doom. It’s a shame indeed that honesty so often escapes you.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 8th, 2012
9:28 am
Mama. “Both have you lost your mind . You are quoting me stating my opinion on Bros mindset.”
You didn’t say anything about that being an opinion, OR about it specifically being about Brosephus.
Joe Hussein Mama
June 8th, 2012
9:30 am
Mama — “No Both you are lying and misrepresenting”
Eff you. You don’t speak for anyone but yourself.
Rabbit
June 8th, 2012
2:18 pm
If the banking abuse of the FDIC is not curtailed, we are in for another wild ride. Property valuations are sinking as a direct result of manipulation of values to allow maximized recovery from the FDIC by takeover banks. End result? More failed banks.
These naysayers will beg for stimulus then..
Stan
June 8th, 2012
5:46 pm
If Romney is elected and the GOP sweeps both houses we could be in for a rough ride. If the Republicans are actually dumb enough to do what they propose today, drastically cut taxes and spending the most likely result will be to flat-line the economy. Look at whats happening in Europe with their austerity program. In 2013 Europe and China will both be in bad shape. If the U.S. joins the mix we might be looking at moving from the great recession to the great depression 2.0.