Cost overruns of almost $1 billion — so far — at Ga. nuke reactors
Last month, a consortium of utilities including Atlanta-based Southern Company announced cost overruns of almost $1 billion at two new nuclear reactors being built near Waynesboro.
That’s an arresting number under any circumstances, but it looms even larger when you realize that major construction on the Vogtle 3 and 4 reactors has basically just begun, with at least five more years of construction to come.
And if costs soar, who’s going to pay for it? Southern Company and its subsidiary, Georgia Power, own 45.7 percent of the project, so its ratepayers’ share of these recent overruns would come to more than $400 million. But according to Buzz Miller, Southern’s executive vice president of nuclear development, that cost will be borne by contractors who are building the project.
“Our official position is that there’s no way we’re going to pay that amount,” Miller said Tuesday.
William Jacobs, a nuclear expert appointed by the Georgia Public Service Commission to monitor construction at Vogtle, warns that additional problems may be coming. In his latest report, he writes that the project is already more than seven months behind schedule, engineering work is not being completed on time, critical components may be delayed and additional potential change orders “could significantly impact” construction costs. Quality assurance issues from major suppliers “continue to be a significant concern for the project.”
In addition, he warns, project owners have yet to agree with contractors on a long-term construction schedule.
“The project is being managed based on short-term forecasts showing work to be accomplished in the next 60 to 90 days,” Jacobs writes. “A first-of-a-kind project of this magnitude and complexity cannot be effectively or efficiently managed using 60-to-90-day forecasts.”
A lot is at stake in the Vogtle project. The new breed of reactors being built at the site — featuring advanced standardized design, streamlined licensing and new construction techniques — are supposed to keep costs steady and bring projects in close to budget and on schedule. That in turn is supposed to spur a new golden era for nuclear power.
However, the problems at Vogtle are not isolated. Two new reactors just under construction in South Carolina, using the identical technology as at Vogtle, are already $560 million over initial estimates and counting. And in Tennessee, efforts to complete a nuclear plant abandoned back in the 1980s have almost doubled in cost. Originally scheduled to accept nuclear material in April, the Tennessee Valley Authority reactor is now expected to go on line late in 2015 at the earliest. And TVA executives acknowledge that the fault is largely their own.
As Miller points out, some of the problems at Vogtle and in the South Carolina project are inherent in being pioneers in construction of a new generation of plants. Since no new nuclear power plants have been built in this country in three decades or longer, suppliers and contractors face a challenge in ramping up to meet the exacting standards required in nuclear construction.
However, S. David Freeman, a former chairman of TVA, warned the TVA board last month that the problems may be inescapable.
“Maybe the problem is in the technology,” he was quoted as saying. “Maybe nuclear power is just such a demanding technology it requires near perfection. It requires so many people to always do the right thing. It just inherently is going to have cost overruns.”
That’s been the challenge of nuclear power from the beginning. Done right — absolutely right — it has great potential as a source of energy, especially in a global climate that is showing every sign of warming, just as scientists have warned. But as we’ve seen, the consequences of doing it wrong can be enormous in financial terms and more importantly in environmental terms.
Theoretically, we know how to handle it. At least we think we do. But it’s a technology in which very small mistakes can have very large repercussions, and when human beings are involved, there is always a significant danger that confidence will outrun competence.
– Jay Bookman
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367 comments Add your comment
Williebkind
June 6th, 2012
1:35 pm
Obama care must be rescinded, thrown out, re-done, and this time congress must READ the bill.
They BOTH suck
June 6th, 2012
1:36 pm
williebkind
I have some muscadine shine that my niece’s husband gave me. Smooth criminal
Jay
June 6th, 2012
1:36 pm
RB, while I appreciate your attempt to correct Zoso, you too have it a bit wrong. Here’s what CBO says, and I quote directly:
“CBO and JCT now estimate that the insurance coverage provisions of the ACA will have a net cost of just under $1.1 trillion over the 2012–2021 period—about $50 billion less than the agencies’ March 2011 estimate for that 10-year period.”
In short, you report a $50 billion increase in estimated 10-year costs; CBO projects a $50 billion decrease. The confusion may come from the fact that while CBO does project a $50 billion GROSS increase in some costs, it reports that will be offset by some $100 billion in increased savings.
Thus the net cost reduction of $50 billion.
ken
June 6th, 2012
1:37 pm
As I recall, past overruns were caused by Government changing the regs.
Don't Forget
June 6th, 2012
1:38 pm
Anyone that’s been involved in the construction of a nuclear facility can tell you that one reason that they are so expensive to construct is the mentality that everything has to be “near perfection”,
Soooooo, they didn’t know that before they made the cost estimates?
Williebkind
June 6th, 2012
1:38 pm
They BOTH suck
June 6th, 2012
1:36 pm
This is muscadine too! It has a strawberry grape color and emits a flavor of ripe muscadines.
TaxPayer
June 6th, 2012
1:38 pm
I laugh everytime I see “clean Democrat”.
Tell us all about “clean coal”
excuse me, I just can’t help it, scout. Of course if you really want to talk about dirty politicians, go for it.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 6th, 2012
1:38 pm
Williebkind
Nope….but I have yard work tonight…..
Bend and stretch and lift and ow and oh and ug and damn.
about 50 reps.
wet wiccan
June 6th, 2012
1:38 pm
“Solar can barely drive a calculator”
The international space station is powered by solar energy. Or did you think there was just a really long extension cord?
Adam
June 6th, 2012
1:39 pm
I like how people conveniently forget that nuclear power can drive a submarine NOW, but it COULDN’T when the technology was new, and ONLY MASSIVE government subsidies made it even possible to use.
Common Sense
June 6th, 2012
1:39 pm
What are the cost overruns of the Federal Government?
In the trillions and growing.
They BOTH suck
June 6th, 2012
1:41 pm
willib
Sounds good. I always have some peach flavored but the muscadine is much smoother batch than the peach.
Enjoy
Common Sense
June 6th, 2012
1:42 pm
“I like how people conveniently forget that nuclear power can drive a submarine NOW, but it COULDN’T when the technology was new, and ONLY MASSIVE government subsidies made it even possible to use.”
I like the way people think this is the only way we make progress.
Sort of like how we could not get too many songs onto an mp3 player, and only massive government subsidies helped create better storage media.
What that is not the way it happened?
Nevermind.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
1:42 pm
TaxPayer:
The Germans and Swiss make a lot of good stuff. If they say they have found a way to use coal cleanly I believe them.
To ignore that would be very foolish.
Adam
June 6th, 2012
1:43 pm
I like the way people think this is the only way we make progress.
Not the only way, just a pretty clear way to speed it up.
Adam
June 6th, 2012
1:43 pm
Common Sense: BTW, no government subsidy for the internet means no mp3.
TaxPayer
June 6th, 2012
1:44 pm
The international space station is powered by solar energy. Or did you think there was just a really long extension cord?
Dang! I thought they would have used that “clean coal”
technology.
Jay
June 6th, 2012
1:44 pm
And Peadawg, CBO numbers continue to project that ObamaCare will REDUCE the federal deficit.
They BOTH suck
June 6th, 2012
1:44 pm
meant to say “also have………..”
I can only wish that I “always have………….”
My dad has some homemade plum wine that his Vietnamese neighbor gave him…….. That stuff is HIGH OCTANE
Adam
June 6th, 2012
1:45 pm
So to put it another way, government subsidizes creation of the internet. Later, internet allows everyone with it to share files. Later, a format (MP3) is created that reduces file size significantly). THEN companies build models around that, AFTER years of people trading these files anyway, before they could be stopped by the RIAA and MPAA.
godless heathen
June 6th, 2012
1:46 pm
Soooooo, they didn’t know that before they made the cost estimates?
Sure they did. They were probably just being overly optimistic or just stupid or playing the game.
But with a little value engineering and common sense, we could knock a few $billions off of the costs.
Adam
June 6th, 2012
1:46 pm
And btw Clean Coal (if it’s real and produces no emissions, like the name sounds) would be awesome. If, however, it’s like the “Clear Skies Act” which allowed for even more pollution, i say no thanks.
Jim163
June 6th, 2012
1:47 pm
Well seeing how private entities don’t need Nuclear Submarines it only makes sense that the Government that owns them, pays for them. BTW, I did a google search and could find nothing about Solar Panel powered warship’s in design phases.
Billybob
June 6th, 2012
1:47 pm
getalife 11:26am
are those the same exit polls that were wrong about walker winning….it’s too easy……quoting an already proved erronous exit poll……classic……and typical liberal blinded by ideology…….
TaxPayer
June 6th, 2012
1:47 pm
The Germans and Swiss make a lot of good stuff. If they say they have found a way to use coal cleanly I believe them.
To ignore that would be very foolish.
Scout replies as he winds the stem on his swiss movement and checks the time ’til his favorite heavy metals group, the Mercurieds, is scheduled to appear with their guest singer, Charlie, the Chicken of the Sea.
Adam
June 6th, 2012
1:48 pm
Jim163: Well seeing how private entities don’t need Nuclear Submarines it only makes sense that the Government that owns them, pays for them.
But since government does everything way more horrible than the private sector, what is the purpose of having these? Surely when we make cuts, we can just cut these right out of the budget!
St Simons - official approver of E Warren's cheekbones
June 6th, 2012
1:53 pm
georgia conservatives, nukular power –
oh that’s gonna be some late night
comedy gold for the teevee.
16 years ago we were hosting the olympics & the G8
thanks again, ga republicans
Billybob
June 6th, 2012
1:54 pm
jay, 1:44
where does cbo get its numbers……since they have come out with practical numbers about obamacare the initial cost has more than doubled says the cbo……either way this is an unconstitutional law that you still fight for……smackdown this month is imminent and the american people will see the true nature of your radical leftist led party and will vote it out in nov…..enjoy and i support people if they are homosexual but will never agree to change the definition of marriage and i am not saying that to gay-bash as you incenuate…..your vitriol towardsyour political opponents is completely transparent at the moment and the public sees this every day……
Common Sense isn't very Common
June 6th, 2012
1:55 pm
Germany has many anti pollution laws in place. Also as is oft quoted here ‘WE SHOULD MODEL OUR TARIFFS AFTER THEIRS’.
They seem to put a lot of thought and effort into their laws.
LOL also they are heavily on the side of the workers (had to throw that in)
Peadawg
June 6th, 2012
1:56 pm
“And Peadawg, CBO numbers continue to project that ObamaCare will REDUCE the federal deficit.”
When they come out with new projections, they need to be more clear on the subject then lol so incidents like this won’t happen.
using google: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/03/conservatives-distort-cbo-data-to-claim-obamacare-costs-have-exploded.php
“But this latest CBO report focuses exclusively on the law’s spending provisions, and ignores its savings — the taxes and spending cuts, that also mostly take effect in 2014.”
Honest question, Jay: Why does the CBO do reporting this way?
TaxPayer
June 6th, 2012
1:56 pm
Coal ash deposits in the USA are now under renewed scrutiny after a giant spill just before Christmas released 5.4 million cubic yards of toxic sludge into Tennessee waterways. Water tests near the spill from the Kingston Fossil Plant showed elevated levels of lead and thallium, which can cause birth defects and nervous and reproductive system disorders. The spill muddied the waters in the Emory river and is flowing into tributaries of the Tennessee River – the water supply for Chattanooga and millions of people living downstream in Alabama, Tennessee and Kentucky.
So now a big question mark hangs over the hundreds of coal plants all across the country which store their fly ash in unlined embankments and ponds — like the one that failed last week. Most are situated near rivers that supply water needed by the coal plants to operate.
The NY Times reported that in the US, coal plants produce 129 million tons of postcombustion byproducts a year. It’s the second-largest waste stream in the country, after municipal solid waste, and it’s storage and handling is unregulated. Who knew?
Darned regulations!
getalife
June 6th, 2012
1:57 pm
bilbob,
No, the exit polls showed walker winning.
Peadawg
June 6th, 2012
1:58 pm
“either way this is an unconstitutional law that you still fight for……smackdown this month is imminent”
Let’s hope so for freedom’s sake. I know I sound like a right wing crazy w/ that statement but I just plain don’t like the idea of the gov’t mandating we buy a private product.
getalife
June 6th, 2012
2:00 pm
I think the gop will take back all the good things our unions fought for the American workers.
I feel sorry for the American workers because you will lose big.
Billybob
June 6th, 2012
2:00 pm
getalife it was 50/50….and was proven flawed as you cite the same poll for obama numbers…..wake up
godless heathen
June 6th, 2012
2:03 pm
“So now a big question mark hangs over the hundreds of coal plants all across the country which store their fly ash in unlined embankments and ponds — like the one that failed last week.”
And the State has been evaluating a fly ash pond at Plant Scherer to determine if it meets current regulations. They started the review in the 80’s. (1980s, not 1880s)
Jm
June 6th, 2012
2:03 pm
Zeke 1:18 both labor and materials
Materials higher than gor most projects, expensive components, tons of concrete, but obviously lots of labor too
Tbs- I think it came from AP, I got it via email
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
2:04 pm
More Americans died on “D-Day” than the entire war in Iraq. Just sayin’. We should pause and remember.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/d-day-americans-died-day-iraq-war-article-1.1090824
Billybob
June 6th, 2012
2:05 pm
peadawg,
hopefully the constitution, limited gov’t, personal responsibility and individual liberty are the new norm to reach for or we are all going to suffer……and as a conservative i pledge to hold my own party responsible for this as well and if people look back since nov 2010 they willsee that people like me have already started to hold their representatives accountable……i just hope that the democrat voters start doing the same thing……
Jay
June 6th, 2012
2:05 pm
Peadawg, they are obligated by law to report on different aspects of different programs on different schedules, and they do so. They are not free to add topics to those reports, or broaden the perspective, etc. They are a creature of Congress and they do what Congress tells them.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
2:05 pm
TaxPayer is obviously not into debate today. I think yesterday’s events have him just wandering around. So sad.
Billybob
June 6th, 2012
2:08 pm
jay, 2:05
this shows your comment on husseincare is based on only one aspect of many and thus taken alone is meaningless……
Peadawg
June 6th, 2012
2:09 pm
Ok so if the CBO only reports 1 side of the story, Jay, what do you expect?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
2:09 pm
TaxPayer:
Takes more than a little solar energy to get the shuttle up there.
“The propellant mixture in each SRB motor consists of ammonium perchlorate (oxidizer, 69.6% by weight), aluminum (fuel, 16%), iron oxide (a catalyst, 0.4%), a polymer (such as PBAN or HTPB, serving as a binder that holds the mixture together and acting as secondary fuel, 12.04%), and an epoxy curing agent (1.96%).[4][5] This propellant is commonly referred to as Ammonium Perchlorate Composite Propellant, or simply APCP. This mixture develops a specific impulse of 242 seconds at sea level or 268 seconds in a vacuum.”
MM
June 6th, 2012
2:19 pm
I’ll do my part for the ADD wander in this discussion (original topic was nuclear power costs) and mention that the first step in “Obamacare” was to extend coverage to millions of Americans and the second step will be cost containment. Couldn’t do both at once or health-insurance complex would have revolted. Instead they were temporarily bought off bu that should end after the election when we get around to what’s really killing our economy–highest healthcare cost in the world by far. That’s the plan, right Barack? Tell me it’s the plan. Please Barack, tell me.
Union
June 6th, 2012
2:22 pm
@granny…
accidents with nukes.. so the fact that a bomb went off on a ship and the ship happened to be nuclear powered.. and the reactors were never compromised.. calculates into this how? thats the equivalent of saying ships that are grey have and accidents.. well no s**t..
Thulsa Doom
June 6th, 2012
2:22 pm
“CBO numbers continue to project that ObamaCare will REDUCE the federal deficit.”
Come on now. The CBO has to work with numbers and assumptions that are given to them. I find it shocking that you give the government any credibility in projecting future health care costs- particularly given their horrendous record of cost estimating on health care programs.
I believe an examination of this facts regarding govt projections of health care costs is in order.
“Medicare (hospital insurance). In 1965, as Congress considered legislation to establish a national Medicare program, the House Ways and Means Committee estimated that the hospital insurance portion of the program, Part A, would cost about $9 billion annually by 1990.v Actual Part A spending in 1990 was $67 billion. The actuary who provided the original cost estimates acknowledged in 1994 that, even after conservatively discounting for the unexpectedly high inflation rates of the early ‘70s and other factors, “the actual [Part A] experience was 165% higher than the estimate.”
Medicare (entire program). In 1967, the House Ways and Means Committee predicted that the new Medicare program, launched the previous year, would cost about $12 billion in 1990. Actual Medicare spending in 1990 was $110 billion—off by nearly a factor of 10.
Medicaid DSH program. In 1987, Congress estimated that Medicaid’s disproportionate share hospital (DSH) payments—which states use to provide relief to hospitals that serve especially large numbers of Medicaid and uninsured patients—would cost less than $1 billion in 1992. The actual cost that year was a staggering $17 billion. Among other things, federal lawmakers had failed to detect loopholes in the legislation that enabled states to draw significantly more money from the federal treasury than they would otherwise have been entitled to claim under the program’s traditional 50-50 funding scheme.
Medicare home care benefit. When Congress debated changes to Medicare’s home care benefit in 1988, the projected 1993 cost of the benefit was $4 billion. The actual 1993 cost was more than twice that amount, $10 billion.
Medicare catastrophic coverage benefit. In 1988, Congress added a catastrophic coverage benefit to Medicare, to take effect in 1990. In July 1989, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) doubled its cost estimate for the program, for the four-year period 1990-1993, from $5.7 billion to $11.8 billion. CBO explained that it had received newer data showing it had significantly under-estimated prescription drug cost growth, and it warned Congress that even this revised estimate might be too low. This was a principal reason Congress repealed the program before it could take effect.
SCHIP. In 1997, Congress established the State Children’s Health Insurance Program as a capped grant program to states, and appropriated $40 billion to be doled out to states over 10 years at a rate of roughly $5 billion per year, once implemented. In each year, some states exceeded their allotments, requiring shifts of funds from other states that had not done so. By 2006, unspent reserves from prior years were nearly exhausted. To avert mass disenrollments, Congress decided to appropriate an additional $283 million in FY 2006 and an additional $650 million in FY 2007.”
I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not
June 6th, 2012
2:22 pm
Here’s the real story. I’m close to the situation. Obama and Stimulus money and the Unions. My company had a contract early to do some work. After the Feds kicked in some tax dollars, we were told we could not be used. REAL WORLD, NO FILTERS. Labor on most jobs went from 18-20 per hour to over 30, with perks.Also, you need a hole dug, you call another union crew and a new deal. Typical and dumb. Unions = slow and costly.
Union
June 6th, 2012
2:26 pm
healthcare.. regardless of the projected costs are going to skyrocket.. i dont base this on talking points.. but trends.. show me a social program that had a projected cost and stayed on budget… i will be impressed.. and i impress easily..
fyi.. if business or the general public did accounting the way the govt does we would all be in jail… under funded pensions are based on current payouts.. not future liabilities.. the holes in pensions are staggering.. thats why most private sector companies opted out of having pension.. not a sustainable bucket of money unless you have a source you can dip into to refill it when needed.
Peadawg
June 6th, 2012
2:27 pm
“They are a creature of Congress and they do what Congress tells them.”
Hence also why I’m skeptical of anything they project.
getalife
June 6th, 2012
2:28 pm
You beat the Solyndra waste cons.
Congrats.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 6th, 2012
2:29 pm
Union
reactors weren’t compromised…THAT TIME
and yes, no poop, it’s still called an accident.
and yes, no poop, it’s still the military
and yes, no poop, it involved nukes.
you were inaccurate, poop happens.
TaxPayer
June 6th, 2012
2:30 pm
Scout,
What would you know about debating. I’ve yet to see you provide any discussion regarding your wiki post on “clean coal”
excuse me, I could not help but laugh even though I have offered up information regarding the toxic coal fly ash, including the big spill in your home state and the toxins introduced into the environment from mining and burning of coal, etc. What’s so “clean” about it in your mind.
Halftrack
June 6th, 2012
2:33 pm
Buzz Miller needs to do a little more explaining. Most projects of this magnitude are put on a critical path method schedule of project construction. Also materials prices and quotes should be known at the time of the bid. Inflation has not gone up that much as far as the economy is concerned. Either Government EPA regulations and policies have made some of these costs go up ( cost overruns) or kickbacks could also be at work. A billion dollars at this stage is ridiculous. I hope our Public Service Commission is taking notes of this and when rate increase time comes, turns it down.
G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)
June 6th, 2012
2:43 pm
Has PSC ever turned down a rate increase? I an not be snarky, just curious.
Don't Forget
June 6th, 2012
2:43 pm
The Germans and Swiss make a lot of good stuff. If they say they have found a way to use coal cleanly I believe them.
Of course you have to follow their guidelines and regulations if you expect the same results.
To ignore THAT would be very foolish as well.
Then there’s the issue of actually flattening mountains to get the coal but that’s another topic.
Don't Tread
June 6th, 2012
2:49 pm
Jay advocating nuclear power as having “great potential as a source of energy”? That should really send the environmentalists on the blog into the stratosphere. Is it time for that field trip to Pripyat yet?
godless heathen
June 6th, 2012
2:50 pm
“Then there’s the issue of actually flattening mountains to get the coal but that’s another topic.”
Sing along:
West Virginia, almost level……..
JohnnyReb
June 6th, 2012
2:51 pm
I intended to comment on nuclear power complexity and how the rabbid environmentalists are America’s number one enemy, then I saw the post from They BOTH Suck on muscadine shine. Makes me wish he lived just down the street!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
2:51 pm
I’m a liberal and believe
everything I read and
nothing the other side comes up with…
cause
we’re smart and they are not”
I could tell you some stories from my railroad union days but you wouldn’t believe them.
Just one ……….
We were assigned a road trip ……. about 14 hrs. (16 was the max. per law) and the train was already put together & ready to pull out (by someone else ……. we couldn’t do that) except that the caboose wasn’t on. I know ………. I’m dating myself.
Anyway, as the lead brakeman I was tasked with taking the lead engine down the side track …….. grabbed the caboose and stuck it on the end for the conductor and rear brakeman who would jump on last as we pulled out.
It took me a maximum of ten minutes.
The conductor filed a grievance (”WE” …….. not just “I”) had to do yard work instead of just the road job. We got a full eight hours yard pay.
Now, being young and stupid I took it (didn’t actually get it until I was home on leave from the USMC) but it just goes to show what unions do.
josef
June 6th, 2012
2:52 pm
DONT TREAD
“Is it time for that field trip to Pripyat yet?”
Picky, picky.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
2:52 pm
TaxPayer:
Cleaning than a nuclear meltdown.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
2:52 pm
Excuse me: “cleaner”
Union
June 6th, 2012
2:53 pm
@granny
if a car is involved in an accident.. and it has a diesel engine.. following your loose logic.. it would fall into the category of a “diesel” accident
josef
June 6th, 2012
2:55 pm
heathen…
So, why go to all the trouble we’re going to now to flatten ‘em…much more time-cost effective to nuke em…?
Rightwing Troll
June 6th, 2012
2:56 pm
“Also, you need a hole dug, you call another union crew and a new deal. Typical and dumb. Unions = slow and costly.”
I used to travel to Manhatten for jobs.
We’d ship up large semi’s loaded with stuff to be installed… Electricians had to unload anything electrical, plumbers anything of the plumbing variety, etc…
The first couple years we weren’t allowed to bring extension cords, the onsite electricians had to make extension cords for us, we weren’t allowed to sweep or clean up our work areas, the laborers were to do that… and everybody left at 2:45 unless overtime was approved so we weren’t allowed to work after that. It started getting better in the late 90’s and early 2000’s, but what a bumblefu$k…
That being said, the unionized trades were some of the best craftsmen I’ve ever seen, the likes of which I haven’t come across here in GA… the system trained them good, but existed to engorge the leaders.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
2:57 pm
Would one of you libs. please send this guy a copy of the Constitution?
Headline: “Sobbing man: ‘Democracy died tonight’… ”
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/06/05/Bleeding-Heart-Liberal-Tells-CNN-This-is-the-End-of-Democracy
kayaker 71
June 6th, 2012
2:57 pm
June 6, 1944. Over 160,000 men gathered across the English Channel to storm the beaches at Normandy. The largest amphibious landing in history. Over 9,000 of them didn’t make it. A recent poll conducted by Gallup estimates that 50
% of Americans present day do not even know what D Day is or what it stands for. No mention of it by Bozo. He’s too busy out in California attending $25,000/plate dinners. Did Bookman mention it, even in passing?
Williebkind
June 6th, 2012
2:58 pm
I think every state should have at least one nuclear plant. California should have three.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 6th, 2012
2:58 pm
Meetings and work…something you know nothing about.
I was working 60 hour weeks long before you were whelped, peapup.
TaxPayer
June 6th, 2012
2:59 pm
Scout,
Not as clean as fuel cell power from hydrogen. Not even as clean as natural gas. Not as clean as wind power. Not as clean as hydroelectric. Not as clean as solar…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
3:00 pm
Rightwing Troll:
I have relatives that are immersed in union activity (up north).
I am convinced that if “Union” Martians landed and started eating people alive that my relatives would picket for them.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
June 6th, 2012
3:00 pm
Union
the horse is dead.
quit beating it.
you were inaccurate. that’s loose, no poop.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
3:02 pm
TaxPayer:
Thank you for making my point. It’s going to take the best of all kinds as those others cannot begin to meet the demand ……… help ? ………. yes ………… but coal is plentiful.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
3:03 pm
Granny Godzilla – Union Thugette ;
Unions are not horses ………. they’re snakes and even if you take off the head they keep writhing until sundown !
josef
June 6th, 2012
3:04 pm
kayaker
I didn’t go scrolling back when I came on to see if any of our posters mentioned it, but I was wondering much the same thing myself. I was giving our boy the Imam benefit of the doubt and assuming he was holding off on it until the evening. I still think it would have been nice to have an early morning thread there to remind us before we went off on our daily gripes and such silly and insignificant cr*p as that ever-so-important and earth shattering means to the fate of Western Civilization and life as we know it…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
3:05 pm
Well, here you go !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVlcqMLMbVA
“The Obama administration on Wednesday acknowledged a wide-ranging definition of “green jobs” that includes bus driver, bicycle-shop clerk and other unexpected lines of employment, which the chairman of the GOP-led House oversight committee said is being done for “clearly political purposes.”
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/06/issa-obama-administration-classifies-jobs-with-political-purpose/#ixzz1×2db95mq
TaxPayer
June 6th, 2012
3:06 pm
Thank you for making my point. It’s going to take the best of all kinds as those others cannot begin to meet the demand ……… help ? ………. yes ………… but coal is plentiful.
No scout. You made no point beyond your initial claim that there was such as thing as “clean coal”
while I made the point that there is no such thing.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
3:07 pm
josef:
You can bet I mentioned earlier !
More Americans died on D-Day than the entire Iraq/Afghanistan Wars.
Just sayin’
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
3:07 pm
TaxPayer:
And German/Swiss engineers disagree with you.
I’ll do with their expertise.
You stick to taxes.
josef
June 6th, 2012
3:07 pm
oops
that @ 3:04 should read “……ever-so-important and earth shattering FAMILY FEUD IN WISCONSIN means…”
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
3:08 pm
Excuse me: “I’ll go”
getalife
June 6th, 2012
3:09 pm
After the collapse, Americans that can’t donate millions to corrupt pols lose and the Americans that caused the collapse win because they can donate millions.
Yeah, Americans lost the ability to see how wrong that is.
TaxPayer
June 6th, 2012
3:09 pm
And to further dispute your misinformation, scout:
http://www.technologyreview.com/featured-story/415725/natural-gas-changes-the-energy-map/
josef
June 6th, 2012
3:09 pm
SCOUT
Some things go without saying, eh? I was sure you did…
TaxPayer
June 6th, 2012
3:11 pm
Scout,
You have provided nothing that disputes my statements regarding how unclean coal really is or how clean other viable options are. You really need to become less misinformed if you believe otherwise.
getalife
June 6th, 2012
3:11 pm
Where is your tea party on this waste?
It is double of Solyndra.
Where are you fiscal cons?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
3:13 pm
TaxPayer:
“Planet Green” (From Discovery)
EPA says NO health risk !
“For many people, the phrase “clean coal” seem an oxymoron. But clean coal technologies (CCT) help reduce CO2 emissions and other dangerous chemicals that are released as byproducts in the process of burning coal to generate power. CCT strategies include washing coal before it’s burned and avoiding the burn process altogether.”
http://curiosity.discovery.com/question/such-thing-clean-coal-technology
josef
June 6th, 2012
3:14 pm
getalife
“Where are you fiscal cons?”
Wait til dark…they’ll be easy to spot…
Matti
June 6th, 2012
3:14 pm
D-Day? Yes, I always watch the movies over Memorial Day weekend. Band of Brothers? Seen each ep at least 8 times.
“You hid in that ditch because you think there’s still hope. But the only hope you have is to accept the fact that youre already dead… and the sooner you accept that, the sooner youll be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function. Without mercy. Without compassion. Without remorse. All war depends upon it.”
Good lesson for the Democrats. We’re already dead. Know what that means? Heh…
TaxPayer
June 6th, 2012
3:16 pm
Scout,
You are misinformed about energy. Further, you are the one that claimed to have worked for the IRS before so shouldn’t you be somewhat knowledgeable regarding taxes. We can discuss taxes if you feel informed. How about those Bush tax cuts. Did you get your fair share
excuse me for that one makes me laugh as much as the “clean coal” 
line.
Jm
June 6th, 2012
3:19 pm
It’s not waste getalife
Solyndra value:$0
Vogtle value: $10 billion or more
josef
June 6th, 2012
3:19 pm
I don’t see many of the nuke proponents talking about what to do with the waste. There’s only so many Indian Reservations out there…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
3:21 pm
TaxPayer:
Your own Environmental Protection Agency disagrees with you. Watch the video ………… or keep your head in the coal dust ……… uh, ………… I mean “sand” !
P.S.
And yes, there are a few who went to prison because I did my job.
IRS-CID (1972-1975). One was a very well publicized case here in Atlanta.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
3:22 pm
josef:
Sent it to Iran ?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
3:22 pm
josef:
Not sure you saw this the other day:
“(Robert E.) Lee’s son, Robert was at that time a student at the University of Virginia and eager to join the army. Lee did not approve, “I wrote to Robert that I could not consent to take BOYS (emphasis added) from their school & young men from their colleges & put them in the ranks at the beginning of a war when they are not wanted & when there were MEN (emphasis added) enough for the purpose.”
From “The Dogs of War” by Emory M. Thomas
Nothing new here.
Nam or Iraq/Afghanistan ………. “men” let American boys take their place.”
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
June 6th, 2012
3:23 pm
Excuse me: “send”
josef
June 6th, 2012
3:23 pm
SCOUT
stands for decibels
June 6th, 2012
3:24 pm
I don’t see many of the nuke proponents talking about what to do with the waste.
Guess I can play “nuke proponent” since I’m generally in favor of cautious development of that resource over its filthier alternatives. I get why Nevada doesn’t want it stored in Yucca, and I get that rail transportation of that stuff could be somewhat logistically problematic, but I suspect it’d be more responsible than the status quo (everyone look after their own spent fuel.)
josef
June 6th, 2012
3:25 pm
SCOUT
I caught that.