Is this gov’t by the people, for the people?

But Jay, corporations are people!!!

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Truth is we’re hosed regardless of whcih side wins. Special interests control how our “elected” officials vote, not we the people who just don’t count anymore.

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“corporations are people!!!”

but unions are people!

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TERM LIMITS for spending addicts on BOTH sides of the aisle. Time for a balanced amendment to the Constitution to the limit the power of the politicians.

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Republicans are now just able to be competing with the Democrats. Democrats and Obummer has been supported by George Soros and all his front companies. Wish you Journalist would do a better job of research.

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I see the union card has already been played. I don’t think the unions have the financial means that those Conservative billionaires have access to. However, continue to fear the boogie man.

Look out!!!! Jason Voorhees is coming up behind you.

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“…..conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal” That people are equal was up for debate then as it is now. Money talks, bull$3!t walks. The courts have decieded so now we have to live with it.

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“I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that we’re well on our way to living in a plutocracy in which the courts, Congress, and the White House are all controlled by a wealthy few.”

I’ve been saying this for years. When will America wake up?

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Lions and Tigers and Karl Rove and the Koch Brothers oh my.

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In 2008 McCain honored the agreement he and Obama had decided on. Obama delivered the dolchstosse. Last year democrats were boasting that Obama was on track to raise a billion for his reelection campaign. Tell Jeffrey Skilling that corporations are not people. Obama has the advantage of commingling taxpayer money with campaign donations on every trip he makes and speech he gives until election day. Don’t know if I have covered all your points. No more time. Bye.

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even so estimates indicate Obama will have more $ including all the PAC’s after all the unions send in their funding.

Incorrect. Read the whole article.

Also read this whole article, hero-worshipper: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/in-defense-of-chris-hayes/257744/

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OMG! Heavens, heavens, the sky is falling, the sky is falling. The Republicans will out spend the Dummycrats. Part of the reason wouldn’t be because the president has been attacking the job producers for three and a half years would it? In addition, many of Obama’s political cronies have already been repaid for their 2008 contributions and now have squandered their loot. Solyndra comes to mind. The unions have spent a ton of money in Wisconsin in a losing cause and can’t pay Obama for more legislative theft. My goodness. The Dummycrats might have to actually do what they claim they do by collecting their campaign funds from the people instead of selling their integrity for a few pieces of silver from their “evil rich” donors. It will be harder to pay them back with Repubicans controlling both the House and the Senate.

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The Repubs are gonna need every penny of that $1 billion to counter-balance the Obozo-fawning MSM which will do anything and everything including lying, exaggeration, and deflection to keep their messiah in office.

How much is that MSM in-kind contribution worth, Jay?

What, no outrage about that?

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If this is not a government of, by and for the people then who you voted for is accepting kick backs and bribes. If your politician pledged to reduce the deficit but voted for more spending … vote them out.

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Part of the reason wouldn’t be because the president has been attacking the job producers for three and a half years would it?

When did Obama attack the middle class?

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If you can’t run on your success and you policies are all failures, you might as well attack the successful producers in society

Thank you for explaining why Romney is attacking the middle class and not running on his record as governor.

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All this spending is “job creation”. Quit complaining even after the jobs created don’t suit your taste.

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How predictable.

Hey, Jay, you work for a corporation that’s spent untold millions trying blatantly to elect Democrats, and which prostrated itself editorially before the Democrat who’s currently in the White House. So spare me the mewling about free citizens who might dare to use their own money to campaign against him. Like the rest of the “journalist” liberals, you guys just want to be able to dictate the terms of the debate without competition from anybody else.

Those days are long since over, so grow up and accept it.

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$40k plate dinners for Obama, is that what you call “Democratic”

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“When did Obama attack the middle class?”

Obama attacks the “middle class” everyday with his high gasoline prices, his high food prices, his high cost of health care, his high borrowing and his high rate of unemployment.

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Love your writing Jay, but honestly the comments are beginning to leave much to be desired. Such witty name calling by those who disagree with our President but can’t formulate an intelligent response to state their position. I think I’ll go back to enjoying the piece and the topic presented therein, but skipping the juvenile “discussion”.

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Liberals have to look no further than John Kerry’s plan to get the Law of the Sea Treaty ratified during the Lame Duck session to understand why we have such a political divide in this country and why patriots such as Rove, Koch brothers, and Donohue are spending big bucks to defeat Obama and the Left.

I posted Dick Morris’ warning of Obama’s plan to get the Law of the Sea Treaty ratified several weeks back. But as usual, the Moonbats here hee-hawed it because it was not on their radar or had no interest. I suggest you educate yourself, and then you may, just may begin to understand why you are in for the political fight of your life in November.

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Obama attacks the “middle class” everyday with his high gasoline prices, his high food prices, his high cost of health care, his high borrowing and his high rate of unemployment.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Tw2pWU22LGY/TKSSD21ef2I/AAAAAAAADR0/w3M-B7-7IDc/s1600/1-liar-pants-on-fire.jpg

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MiltonMan — “Obama insults the Polish people – never to be reported by the AJC.”

Are you of Polish descent, or are you just trying to speak for us?

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willie lynch

May 30th, 2012
11:51 am
I say anyone who wants to go back to the policies that led to the great calamity of the Bush years, have at it.

The problem with the left which the above comment typifies, is that to their way of thinking, returning to lower unemployment, lower deficits, lower fuel prices, lower health care cost, lower food prices, fewer people on food stamps, less poverty, and in general better living conditions is “GOING BACK”. Even more interesting is they think increasing the size of government, taking away our freedoms is “moving forward”. They don’t seem to grasp the Obama policies have been tried many times before and have always resulted in failure while capitalism is the only known economic system to have a track record of success.

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Jay just loves polutico.

“In time, if the system is not reformed, Democrats too will be forced to bend a knee to those who believe that big money justifies having a big voice,”

“Democrats too will be forced to bend a knee”

Hard to stop laughing…Obama and the Democrats have shamelessly been on their knees for big money. Hollywood, labor unions, Wall Street liberals, George Soros and the like. Jay, you didn’t really type this with a straight face?

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Joe Hussein Mama

May 30th, 2012
12:02 pm

JohnnyReb — “But as usual, the Moonbats here hee-hawed it because it was not on their radar or had no interest. I suggest you educate yourself”

After your comments of last week, you’re lucky any of the “Moonbats” here even respond to you any more. So far as I’m concerned, you couldn’t possibly pull up stakes and move to another blog fast enough.
_____________________

JHM – I failed to see the notice from Jay where he had awarded control of this place to you. Until he blocks me, I’ll post what I choose. I will not be addressing you except with selected replies. I have as much right to be here as you. So FOAD.

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This country has become a INEPTOCRACY……………..A system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing,and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed , are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers……………………That’s where we are.

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as an olive branch, Obama should appoint a person of polish descent to light bulb changing czar.

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JohnnyReb — “JHM – I failed to see the notice from Jay where he had awarded control of this place to you.”

How strange. I didn’t see one either. Did someone claim that there had been one?

“Until he blocks me, I’ll post what I choose. I will not be addressing you except with selected replies.”

Good. It will make refuting your nonsense ever so much more efficient and pleasurable.

“I have as much right to be here as you.”

Given your comments of last week, it’s most curious indeed that *you* should be the one to speak of ‘rights.’

“So FOAD.”

How charming. Do you kiss your wife with that mouth?

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And the Dem politicians and Oblama are of, by and for the people? Jay – you missed your calling. You are so much funnier than Bill Maher. Have you ever considered being a stand up comic?

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Did this tropical storm over the weekend get blamed on Bush yet?

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What a great day it’s going to be when Ann Cox Chambers’ subsidies for this worthless liberal rag are gone, and Jay Bookman has to try and find a real job. Dishonest Leftist isn’t much of a qualification, but maybe McDonald’s will be hiring… janitors.

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Mighty Righty, thanks for the comedy.

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When trillions in taxpayer largess is at stake to feed the military industrial complex, etc., and create more tax cuts for the wealthy, a billion here and a billion there are small potatoes.
Our politicians (R & D) now spend 90% of their time, energy and though processes fundraising for the next election and maybe 10% “governing.”
If we don’t have some sort of major campaign finance reform, the U.S. will morph into a totally corrupt oligarchy. It is already happening.

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Bookman,

Surely you jest. SEIU alone spent nearly 85M dollars on political contributions last year, according to the WSJ, in 2012 ALONE. They even borrowed 35M just to keep up and are now paying it back to lenders. Bozo wanted a billion dollars for the 2012 campaign but his donor base is shrinking due to disinterest by many who supported him in 2008 but want no part of him now. He campaigns to half empty venues of die hard supporters who would vote for him no matter what he did. People much like you, Bookman. When the Senators and Congressmen/women running for re-election shun his support, like they did for W, his fate is sealed. The recall election in Wisconsin next week will be a prelude to November. Even that Schultz chick in FL admits they will lose. Then when the Supremes vote down Bozocare, another nail in the political coffin. All Romney has to do is play that YOU TUBE video of Bozo saying that if he didn’t turn this economy around in his first term, he didn’t deserve a second. Romney should play that tape over and over and over to remind the electorate what a disaster this clown has been. But…. but…. he got OBL.

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Who on here thinks if Obama loses in November, he will do like George W and just go quietly away?

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“People who make billion-dollar investments have a funny way of expecting to profit from said investments.” This statement captures both the motivation of the NLRB and the frustration of American taxpayers over Obama’s disastrous “investments” in alternative energy, the failed stimulus, and a general lack of accountability over how Obama spends our money. I know you are frustrated by the difference in grass roots fund raising success in 2012 versus 2008. Perhaps it is because of the country is realizing that Obama, rather than being a unifying agent of change as promised in 2008, is actually a divisive Chicago style back room politician focused exclusively on partisan special interests. The latest examples of this are the job killing protectionist tariffs recently enacted. The solar panal tariffs are a feeble attempt by Obama to try to save face for his stupid partisan controlled alternative energy “investments.” Cutting losses by raising taxes on competition or subsidizing Obama bundler companies through above market Government contracts is not the way to encourage growth in a global economy. Global trade growth will dwarf U.S. GDP as long as Obama is in office. Obama should emphasize international trade agreements rather than domestic protectionist legislation. Unfortunately, based on Obama’s track record in office of putting together bipartisan coalitions to accomplish anything domestically, the potential for originating international trade agreements does not appear to be in Obama’s skillset. Reagan and Clinton knew how to unite coalitions of people with different political views, backgrounds, and interests for a common goal. What exactly are we paying Obama for?

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MILTON MAN

The Polish one didn’t even get much traction downstairs, both threads…

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Keep telling yourself that Obama is over, but look at the alternative- Willard Mittens Magic Underwear Plutocratic Automaton Romney.

I just don’t think the public loves him enough to outseat an incumbent when the economy is slowly but surely turning around.

I just walked across the street to see FIVE new homes going up in the subdivision that sat vacant for many years. I hate to say it, but things are improving.

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So what’s your argument here, Jay? Obama and the Democrats will raise tons of money through special interest groups and PACS but the Republicans do it more nanny nanny boo boo?

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“Just the spending linked to the Koch network is more than the $370 million”

Reminds me of yesterday when Jay asked “What is it with you guys and George Soros?”

“It will be government of the people, by the people and for the people only in the sense that, well, corporations are people.”

Corporations aren’t people. They are merely entities made up OF people, run BY people and FOR people. Other than that of course they have nothing to do with people.

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What qualifies lawyers to be politicians?

Something about us being “a nation of laws, not men”?

At any rate, that is one helluva broad brush you use.

I remember reading about a quiet, unassuming man – a lawyer by trade and a pacifist by principle – who toppled an entire empire and changed the world.

For the betterment of us all.

Good men can be found everywhere and in every profession.

Alas, so can evil men.

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Making political contributions is God’s way of telling you “you have too much money”.

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“Corporations aren’t people. ” – Not according to Mitt Romney, who said they ARE people.

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I believe everything I read,

So given your compelling (eye roll) anecdote, what do you expect the American Jewish vote for Romney to be?

10%? 15% More? Less?

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For the banjo playing crowd here:

“With ABC’s Jake Tapper reporting that the Obama campaign is about to unleash an attack on Mitt Romney’s weak job creation record in Massachusetts, here are three things you should know:

Just like he is doing in 2012, Mitt Romney in 2002 said that his private sector experience as CEO of Bain Capital would allow him to create jobs in the state.

Romney’s private sector experience didn’t help him create jobs. Under his leadership, Massachusetts ranked 47th out of 50 states in creating jobs. During Romney’s tenure, the job growth rate was three and a half times higher nationwide than it was in Massachusetts.

By the end of his term, Romney was so unpopular that he didn’t even run for reelection—and if he had, he certainly would have lost.

With a record like that, it’s no wonder that in his standard stump speech, Mitt Romney doesn’t even mention that he was once governor of Massachusetts.”

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We are in radical right territory and it is not changing anytime soon.

cons should be happy with unlimited corruption because it fits their failed ideology.

It will produce many scandals because there are no rules on spending unlimited corruption.

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Democrats too will be forced to bend a knee to those who believe that big money justifies having a big voice, and only the naive would believe that that such a power once unleashed can easily be reined in.

you’d be naive to believe that it’s not already happening equally in both parties

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Now you cons want him to apologize to Poland?

Pathetic hypocrites.

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Yet another nice diversionary blog when one could be addressing the substantive failures of the Obama Administration.

When are you going to get back to real issues, and not focus on quotes from Dead Presidents who did nothing but violate the Constitution at will?

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I know, there are only about 7 mil jewish voters so a 20 % increase is not earth moving. 25 million Christians who didn’t vote last time is the key IMO

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Our founders would start another revolution but we are out of great leaders .

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“you’d be naive to believe that it’s not already happening equally in both parties”

No! Republicans do it more! Jay said so!

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And Johnny Reb actually quotes Dick Morris!!! John your standards cant get much lower.

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So….Koch Bros and people like them are willing to spend billions of dollars in order to elect someone that won’t tax the rich. So that they can continue to get richer and continue to pass the buck onto the poor and middle class, so that they continue to gain more power & more control.

Yeah…really makes me want to vote GOP. (sarcaism)

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Lincoln made a horrendous decision and was full of it to begin with. By force of arms the stronger North inflicted it’s will on the people of the South. It’s the real law, the law of the universe, the natural order. So the lions eat the antelopes, the earth revolves around the sun, and the rich and powerful control the government. It’s always been that way. Let’s just get Anne Cox Chambers to donate $5B to Obama and even things out.

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“neither party is immune to money’s gravitational pull”

So what’s the point of the rant about Republicans do it more nanny nanny boo boo before and after that sentence?

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I’m glad the North inflicted the will of “slavery=bad” on the ridiculously back-assed South.

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S. O. S. – It takes an idiot to know one…. and you have mirrors all over your house. Figures lie and liars figure. The garbage you came up with isn’t worth responding to. I prefer common sense.

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The banks in Europe can donate to get a bailout.

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gone today – here tomorrow.

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Is there any problem that can’t be solved by federal government intervention?

Not in lib-world:

“Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) has called on the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to review whether metal grill brushes are safe for consumer use, after reports that some metal bristles broke off the brush and were swallowed, sending two men to the hospital.”

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Chuck Schumer ruined Four Loko

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Michael

May 30th, 2012
12:46 pm

And Johnny Reb actually quotes Dick Morris!!! John your standards cant get much lower.
_____________

Yea, I feel that way about all the Obama supporters.

You can say what you will about Morris, but he was correct on Obama pushing the Law of the Seas Treaty. You will hear more about this as the lame duck session draws nearer. My guess is, it will be fillibustered, or hopefully it will. If you choose to read about it, the treaty would give away some of our sovereignty to the UN. That of course is right in line with how Obama thinks.

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cons desperately trying to change the subject because they know this issue is dead wrong and not American.

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Steve, An earlier remark by you.

“I just walked across the street to see FIVE new homes going up in the subdivision that sat vacant for many years. I hate to say it, but things are improving”

When someone hates to say things are improving, He/She has a selfish agenda.

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Steve and son of the south,

That market watch article has been so thoroughly debunked I can’t believe you guys foolishly bring it up. That lie didn’t just get dispelled but got annihilated. See Wingfield’s blog from a few days ago on this lie and educate yourselves. Or just read this. Lies and the libs that tell em. It never do get old.

http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/2012/05/24/obama-is-most-frugal-least-spending-of-presidents-hardly-wsj-rex-nuttings-nutty-dishonest-hilarious-claim-is-debunked-about-our-spending-binge-president/

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“Corporations aren’t people. ” Really? What is a corporation? Is it not a group of like minded people trying to buy and sell a product or service for profit? Why should it be illegal for these people to not be able to support their own self interest? Is this not the same thing unions do? How about the AARP or even on a local level a homeowners association?

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jefflz

“…Karl Rove, self-proclaimed admirer of Josef Goebbels, ”

Citation/link please…not being snarky, being serious…

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Jay
May 30th, 2012
1:03 pm

There you go again lol. Both parties do it but Republicans do it more nanny nanny boo boo.

I thought were better than that. Guess not….

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I am not comfortable having a government with legal unlimited bribes but the majority is okay with it so here we are.

No use whining about it until the majority is ready to change it.

Probably the younger generation will have enough after all the scandals it will produce.

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Anyone who thinks corporations are people is “undereducated”. Corporations are about returns on investment for shareholders. Nothing wrong with that in principle. However, when unlimited funds can be spent by corporations in an anonymous fashion to distort the electoral process in their favor against the best interests f the country, then we have a problem. Corporations aren’t people they are money making machines that couldn’t give a hoot about the fate of the man on the street. If you think this is just fine then you are against everything this country stands for.

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“after all the unions send in their funding”
“The president last week became the first billion dollar politician”
“this flood of Fed spending has increased at a record rate”
“Democrats and Obummer has been supported by George Soros and all his front companies”
“like NPR, MSNBC, ABC, CBS before him, likes to mention how much money Republican candidates bring in”
“because the president has been attacking the job producers for three and a half years”
“the Obozo-fawning MSM which will do anything and everything including lying, exaggeration, and deflection to keep their messiah in office.”
“If you can’t run on your success and you policies are all failures, you might as well attack the successful producers in society with your monkey-boys in your wholly-owned Obama media.”
“Speaking of owning the presidency, Michael Moore, Georgie Soros, Warren Buffett, come to mind along with the heads of S.E.I.U., U.A.W., A.F. of L, Acorn, Teachers, Union, Government Employees, Union, GE, General Motors, Chrysler, Boeing, Hollywood”
“Jay, you work for a corporation that’s spent untold millions trying blatantly to elect Democrats”
“Obama attacks the “middle class” everyday with his high gasoline prices, his high food prices, his high cost of health care, his high borrowing and his high rate of unemployment”
“I posted Dick Morris’ warning of Obama’s plan to get the Law of the Sea Treaty ratified several weeks back”
“they think increasing the size of government, taking away our freedoms is “moving forward”.”
“he didn’t have his teleprompter to tell him what to say.”

All of this rightwing ignorance came from page 1 of this blog. Not a single one of these quotes is based in reality.

The cons cannot seem to come up with an original thought from their empty heads.

It’s like debating a chimp. He may gesture and make goofy faces, but he still cannot communicate.

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“Don’t want them to donate, then don’t tax the corporations just the individuals who are employed by corporations.”

Most ignorant post so far.

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But with you being a Democrat, I understand why you feel the need to point out that one side does it more nanny nanny boo boo.

I just think it’s funny.

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Jay
May 30th, 2012
1:03 pm

Why does it give Republicans an advantage? Both parties bow to corporations already.

Seems you are projectiong your opinion as fact!

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re: corporate donations

Who decides (within the corporation) what and to who do the donations go?

Is it put to a stockholders vote? A vote from the BOD? or is a CEO decision?

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Let me make it clear: Obama does NOT believe in government of the people or by the people, and not even for the people. Obama believes in himself. Obama believes in the body of the politicians. Obama believes in taking all decisions, rights, and reason away from citizens. He should NEVER have been elected, should never have even run for the office, and is so in over his head and out of his element that the nation has suffered hugely. If we were Cuba, or Marxist Germany, or Iran, he might have had a place. But for the United States? No.

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http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

with all the money the unions donate to the dems.. someone needs to write a big check..

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Obama is “so in over his head”? Really? Seeing that he’s pulled us out of recession, pulled us out of two failed wars, lowered unemployment, the housing market is turning around, General Motors is now thriving, stock market has climbed back, Osama is gone, Libyans are free of Ghadaffi, taxes are low, inflation is low, and we are doing better than Europe right now…

Yeah, such a failure!

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STEVE
@ 1:28

I would agree with that except you don’t seem to like us banjo pluckers very much…

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Steve: I hate to say it, but things are improving.

Well, I personally never hate to say such a thing.

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The great tragedy is that the war criminal Lincoln gets credit for saying something he NEVER believed in to begin with. Lincoln was a promoter of the “American System,” which was little more than an extension of the fascist merchantilist system that served to boost the wealth of connected business owners in Britain in the 1700s (and beyond). Lincoln’s civil war-provoking tariffs were all a special handout to his northern big business supporters as was the transcontinental railroad (though he made plenty of money on this one too). This process of buying favors from politicians is as old as America itself. There is a certain irony in our fighting so hard to “defeat fascism” in Italy and German while we as a nation embraced it as an economic policy at home.

Government is in bed with big business. The democrats are equally as bad as the republicans though their list of favored recipients likely meets with more approval from liberal folks like you. Every unconstitutional power the government now claims the right to wield, is used to help out a favored friend in big business. Regulations that destroy or limit competition, taxes and fees that impact smaller competitors, etc. and worst of all, the criminal Federal Reserve, which sets the price of money, hands out free cash to friends around the world, and helps to manipulate markets for all types of commodities, stocks, etc. all serve one friend or another.

Please don’t even suggest that democrats might be forced to behave as badly as republicans in this. They are both the scum of the earth and have been for at least 100 years.

Only Ron Paul stands above all of this as a shining example. At every turn he speaks out against Corporatism, works to abolish the Federal Reserve, and votes against unconstitutional regulations and spending (regardless of who might benefit).

There are no lobbyists that ever visit his congressional offices. They know they are not welcome, unless they are promoting the cause of liberty and freedom.

These new PACs are just an extension of everything that is wrong with our government. Yes, super PACs have raised millions for Ron Paul during this campaign season and likely will continue to raise money. His 20+ year voting record makes it very clear to all who give however that they are donating for the restoration of freedom and liberty, not buying themselves a privileged place in a future administration. I certainly know that is why I give to his campaign.

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Common Sense: when one could be addressing the substantive failures of the Obama Administration.

1) Blogspot is ready when you are
2) You’re being divisive

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ADAM
@ 1:31

Yep. Me, too.

(You’re getting the knack of it! )

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Election campaign laws MUST be changed to maintain our democratic republic. The power behind monied special interests do effect both parties. However, read this from Wikipedia:

“ALEC currently has more than 2,000 legislative members representing all 50 states, amounting to nearly one-third of all sitting legislators, as well as more than 85 members of Congress and 14 sitting or former governors who are considered “alumni”. The vast majority of ALEC’s legislative members belong to the Republican Party. ALEC also claims approximately 300 corporate, foundation, and other private-sector members.”

And the following exerpt from this link:

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/78448237?access_key=key-a6hdjq8v38luteku97w

“Led by some of the largest corporations in America, ALEC has quietly brought together legislators and corporate lobbyists to draft legislation behind closed doors. Much of this legislation is designed to benefit directly the bottom lines of corporations that are members of ALEC—corporations like Coca-Cola, Koch Industries, United States Smokeless Tobacco Company and Comcast. ALEC exists specifically so that lobbyists and corporations can influence state legislative policies away from public view. At its meetings, held in some of the most exclusive resorts and hotels to ensure secrecy, corporate lobbyists share their wish lists of legislative proposals to be introduced at state capitols around the country. Legislators take this cookie-cutter legislation, make some changes to it, then introduce it in their own states, often without understanding the full impact of what they are proposing. With help from corporate political contributions, lobbyists then help move the legislation forward. We all like to think that our state laws are created when a constituent raises an issue with a legislator, who then drafts legislation to fix that problem. Increasingly however, that’s not the case and corporate lobbyists, not our legislators, are drafting Minnesota’s laws. In Minnesota, at least 19 legislators are members of ALEC’s legislative task forces. In these task forces, corporate lobbyists propose draft legislation and join in voting with legislators to choose which drafts will become ALEC ‘model legislation,’ to be cut and pasted into bills by legislators across the country. Corporations pay up to $25,000 each year to join these task forces, where ALEC boasts that they have ‘a voice and a vote.’ ALEC paints itself as a think tank, but it is really a front group for corporate lobbyists. In fact, ALEC receives 98% of its funding from corporations and foundations. (The other two percent comes from membership dues paid by legislators and miscellaneous income.) For corporations, this is a good investment; for citizens, it’s more evidence of the erosion of our democracy.”
=================================================

And, here is the bottom line question. Even with both parties partaking of big monied interests in order to be elected in November, which party, once elected, will primarily support the welfare of the 1%, and which party will support, primarily, the welfare of the 99%? You know the answer. Now, how will you vote in November?

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why shouldn’t corporations be allowed to represent their employees and owners interests by being able to contribute to candidates.

This is not the problem. The problem is LIMITLESS ANONYMOUS donations.

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with all the money the unions donate to the dems.. someone needs to write a big check..

Wow..

A whopping 23 year time span to accumulate campaign totals. Does not show this years race at all huh???

http://www.fec.gov/disclosurep/pnational.do

Comparing how contributions have accumulated thus far during THIS election cycle….

Candidates
(millions of dollars)
All Candidates 459.5
Republicans 241.0
Democrats 217.0
Obama (D) 217.0
Romney (R) 97.6
Paul (R) 38.7
Gingrich (R) 23.1
Santorum (R) 21.8
Perry (R) 19.7
Cain (R) 16.3
Bachmann (R) 10.3
Huntsman (R) 7.8
Pawlenty (R) 5.2
Johnson (L) 0.8
Roemer (O) 0.7
McCotter (R) 0.5

Republicans overall have collected more money during this election cycle than Democrats. I guess that labor money isn’t as good as it used to be. That said, don’t let the standard, fill-in-th-blank meme for the “whatever the current threat” group that’s targeted stop you from your rhetoric recital. I get a kick out of the incessant hum of the mindless quotation of stuff that’s less factual than the moon is made of green cheese.

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“In time, if the system is not reformed, Democrats too will be forced to bend a knee to those who believe that big money justifies having a big voice, and only the naive would believe that that such a power once unleashed can easily be reined in. It will be government of the people, by the people and for the people only in the sense that, well, corporations are people.”

Uh, Jay, where were you when the news leaked of the Obama supporters (Solyndra, Pelosi’s brother-in-law, etc.) who received loans that ended in default and no legal action was taken against the borrowers? Democrats have bent at the knee, and in other positions, for the money since Truman left office – Truman being the only honest Democrat in my life time.

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oops, sorry Adam, didn’t mean to attribute that quote to you.

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No matter how much money
is spent you can still vote
for anyone on the ballot.
The ball is on your court.

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Jay

May 30th, 2012
1:09 pm
So Peadawg, what part of Republicans having a 10-1 advantage in SuperPAC funding are you having a hard time comprehending? You don’t believe that taking 10 times the cash doesn’t make you at least somewhat more compromised than the other guy?
____________________________________________________________________________
Jay, if I sell 1lb of dope and Bill sells 10lbs, aren’t we both still dealers, and worthy of scorn?

Also, if the conversation is limited to SuperPAC’s then aren’t we missing part of the story. Aren’t we missing the “donations” in terms of positive/unreported stories by left leaning media sources, community outreach by groups like ACORN (or whatever they are calling themselves), negative propaganda by groups like Moveon or Think Progress, ads and “get out the vote” activities by union groups (not to mention direct donations by all these groups).

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Adam
May 30th, 2012
1:33 pm

For me things have not changed enough. What has changed I have found myself to be in disagreement more than agreement.

Oh yeah and I didn’t like the 8yr Bush run. So when a guy runs as hope and change then doesn’t change much from the 8yrs I just didn’t like I feel lied to, and decieved.

Thus making me willing to give the other guy a chance. I figure 12 yrs has been enough, I don’t need 16

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Not so casual…

” Truman being the only honest Democrat in my life time”

Not President in my lifetime, but I’m going to go you one further…the only honest one of either party to hold that office (except maybe G. Ford) in at least the 20th Century and pretty much the 19th as well…

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By the way. Shouldn’t today’s top news story be about how Obama insulted the Poles with his alarming lack of intelligence?

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td

May 30th, 2012
1:01 pm

Unions are made up of dues paying members as is the AARP. A corporation can decide among it’s board of maybe 10 or 12 people to funnel millions into a particular cause slated to be important by this body only. They don’t have to answer to, consider or vote among the employees of the company before they make their determination as to who they will back.

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Doom — “Corporations represent people.”

No, they don’t.

“People work for them and people own them.”

Irrelevant. The guys that did my roof worked for me, but I don’t represent them and they don’t own me.

“If labor unions represent unionized employees via political donations then why shouldn’t corporations be allowed to represent their employees and owners interests by being able to contribute to candidates.”

Because union employees have the right to *vote on* actions taken by the union. Corporate employees enjoy no such right.

“Their donations are after all on behalf of people- the very people who work for and own the company.”

I know you have a better understanding of labor unions than this, Doom.

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“Why should corporations pay taxces, but not have influence over how that tax money is used? They don’t get a vote!”

The problem is anonymous, unlimited money.

People, unions, corporations, etc. should have a limit on their contributions and should be available for full disclosure.

I’m sick of seeing attack ads 6 months out of every year.

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Now you’ve gone and done it, Jay. Brought all the conservatives out of the woodwork with their crazy talk. I’m with Looney Bin. Will always read all your posts, but think I’ll have to refrain from reading the follow-up on the blog for a while to regain my faith in my fellow Americans.

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Sure to this statement……….If you don’t get a government FOR the people you VOTED for the wrong people.

I never voted for Bush and got crap back…. 2 Wars, tax cuts that bankrupted the US….all because “Special Interests ” lead by Dick Cheney and his War machine wanted to get rich before retirement, off the backs of the average citizen.

So what did the Iraq War do for the average citizen anyway ?

NOTHING AT ALL.but make all’s life worse off, if you were not in the small percentage that make a killing off Cost Plus contracts, and the Bilking of the US Treasury !

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Actually WIngfield’s blog covered where and why Politifact was also wrong

And I am to believe Wingfield over Nutting and Politifact because…..?

Here’s the thing, Thulsa. YOUR mind is the one that is made up ahead of time, as are many of the articles you present (yes, I did read them) that “show” how “wrong” Nutting is (and just so we’re clear, I ALSO thought Obama was the biggest spender in modern history until I examined the evidence). Only the ones that say “Well, he’s not the MOST frugal, but he’s not the worst” in the end are the ones truly trying to approach the subject honestly (even if their conclusions are skewed). The ones that “debunk” the claim and attempt to make the opposite claim do a lot of contortions and twists and turns to make it happen.

It all boils down to each of the articles attempting to manipulate math to support a pre-existing conclusion – something that you yourself have shown that you are prone to. And now you want to claim *I* am the one doing that? It’s no wonder you support these folks, falling prey to the fallacy that your position must be right because it’s been repeated in your ear enough, and then projecting your own failings onto someone who disagrees. A lot of these politicians you support do the exact same thing.

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“I challenge you to show me a private for profit company that hires a majority of minimum wage workers with the goal of helping minimum wage workers.”

They helped them by giving them a job and paying them wages for their work. That was easy. And if the employee doesn’t like it then he can simply offer his labor to someone else for more money.

Heck, bonus points if you can show more than one. How about every company out there that pays the wages thus helping the employee.

” Then I want you to tell me what percentage of all corporations in the US that is.’

All of them that pay the wage. You’re making this just wayyyyyy too easy Adam.

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TBG: Bro, although Fox News beats CNN and the other cable news outlets, I don’t think they beat the broadcast news outlets (ABC, NBC, CBS).

This is true. But what is not true is that everything not Fox is liberal, or behind Obama. The broadcast outlets actually do a much better balancing job than anything I’ve seen on cable.

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Thulsa: They helped them by giving them a job and paying them wages for their work. That was easy. And if the employee doesn’t like it then he can simply offer his labor to someone else for more money.

What complete liberatarian bullsh*t. Come back to me when you can address what I was actually asking for. Twisting what I was asking for into such nonsense may be “easy” for you, but it’s not approaching the subject honestly at all, and only further shows everyone here why you so easily support the politicians you support.

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I gotta give the right wing credit; after reading through five pages of commentary, there is no doubt that the propaganda has been catapaulted beyond their wildest dreams. Here you have all these rubes expounding no truths and lies as if the past decade had not even existed! We are a deeply divided nation and I can only pray that my side prevails. If not, we will be moving backwards…

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oe Hussein Mama
May 30th, 2012
1:48 pm

Doom — “Corporations represent people.”

No, they don’t.- Joe mama

Yes they do. Doom

“People work for them and people own them.”

“Irrelevant.”- Joe mama

Relevant- Doomy

“The guys that did my roof worked for me, but I don’t represent them and they don’t own me.”

Incorrect. No. 1 I’m not referring to customers as you were a customer. I am referring to the owners of a particular company. Corporations are owned by people whether it be a single large shareholder or joe and jane main street who own shares through their 401ks or public employee pension fund.

“If labor unions represent unionized employees via political donations then why shouldn’t corporations be allowed to represent their employees and owners interests by being able to contribute to candidates.”

“Because union employees have the right to *vote on* actions taken by the union. Corporate employees enjoy no such right.”- Joe Mama

Irrelevant distinction. And besides there are plenty of union members whose union dues go to support dem candidates that that particular union member does not support. No fairness in that is there?

“Their donations are after all on behalf of people- the very people who work for and own the company.”

“I know you have a better understanding of labor unions than this, Doom.”

Yes. I do. Just as I also know that labor unions often support and send money to political parties and candidates that a good deal of their members may not support. And I suspect you know that also.

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Adam

May 30th, 2012
1:45 pm
TBG: Jay, if I sell 1lb of dope and Bill sells 10lbs, aren’t we both still dealers, and worthy of scorn?

Put TBG down as against ANY campaign contributions whatsoever in a zero tolerance policy.
____________________________________________________________________________
How about this?

“Put TBG down as being able to speak for himself and does not like CHILDISH attempts to have words put into his mouth” – THAT is more accurate.

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If Republicans give me all of my income tax-free, I might hire one of them to wash my feet, part-time.

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I guess “trickle down” economics means the money trickles down to the politicians who practice it.

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td

May 30th, 2012
1:58 pm

The membership of these organizations do vote for whom they will throw their support behind. My company has never asked us if we supported their right leanings or their monetary efforts to support those who are running to further this agenda.

When did the unions stop supporting republicans?

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An overwhelming majority of Americans have said consistently for a long period of time that corporations have too much control over their government and over their lives.

Yet when enough people finally take a stand and take their redress of grievance to the streets, an underwhelming minority of miscreants and the misguided raise holy hell to do what?

Protect the very corporations that have too much control over their lives!

You figure it out. I cannot…

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One of the funny things about the Republican talking heads: They want to bash black people who vote Democrat as being unable to think for themselves, and unions for existing, yet they want those same groups to vote for them.

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Adam

May 30th, 2012
1:56 pm
TBG: Bro, although Fox News beats CNN and the other cable news outlets, I don’t think they beat the broadcast news outlets (ABC, NBC, CBS).

This is true. But what is not true is that everything not Fox is liberal, or behind Obama. The broadcast outlets actually do a much better balancing job than anything I’ve seen on cable.
___________________________________________________________________________

Thank God Adam is ther to point out something I did NOT say.

Adam, are your fingers all wrinkled and prunish from putting words in peoples mouth all day?

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Joe Hussein Mama

May 30th, 2012
2:05 pm

And how many union members can leave the union in a closed shop state and how many conservative union members can leave the union? Most people join AARP for the supplemental insurance and other benefits offered so in reality they are captive members as well.

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Joseph
@ 1:45

W imieniu naszego Prezydenta, ja przepraszam ciebie i innych Polaków którzy są obrażeni. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Wasza Aplikacja na stanowisko tłumacza został przekazany do Departamentu Stanu.

Dziękujemy za zainteresowanie

And, who says Obama isn’t creating jobs!

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Adam,

Sorry sir but its not just this one measure that shows O is a huge spender.

In absolute terms we are spending enormous sums compared to just 4 years ago. You cannot dispute the money being spent in absolute terms can you sir??? Nope. YOU CANNOT! Facts are facts.

Secondly another way to look at spending is as a percentage of GNP in which case under O we are spending significantly more- around 24% at last count vs the historical average of 18%. Can you dispute that govt spending as a % of GNP is significantly higher under O??? Um. Nope. YOU CANNOT. Facts are facts.

Now just to show you that I am fair I will take note of Jay’s comment that in 2009 when O took over govt spending as a % of the economy surged because the economy contracted and thus statistically it made govt spending as a % of the economy look worse. So I can look at misleading stats and take them into account. You on the other hand cannot due to willful blindness.

Now to bolster my point further the recession ended 6 months into O’s term and the economy has been growing albeit sluggishly for 3 years now. Jay can’t use that excuse about a contracted economy forever and 3 years later govt spending as a % of the economy is still 23-24% which is enormous. This falls squarely on Obama. He’s had 3 years of growth and 3 years to reduce the level of govt involvement in the economy and constrain govt spending. He has failed miserably by any measure. Plain and simple. Facts are facts.

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JamVet

May 30th, 2012
2:17 pm

When government is controlled by private economic power, that is fascism”. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1938

Given that, welcome to the Fascist States of America.

And when it is controlled by unions and bureaucrats then it is communism. Welcome to the UCSA.

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Adam

May 30th, 2012
2:12 pm
TBG: “Put TBG down as being able to speak for himself and does not like CHILDISH attempts to have words put into his mouth” – THAT is more accurate.

Well, how about you admit your drug dealer analogy doesn’t apply because all campaign contributions are not the same?
____________________________________________________________________________
Ok, it was a bad analogy.

Now, how about you admit that you have a habit of “putting words into others mouth”?

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Adam,

One last thing about the politifact article. Kyle blew that one out of the water so I’ll let him speak on that nonsense. Moral of the story?- Omission and not telling the full story shows what BS Nutter’s article is.

“The Politifact article checks only Nutting’s claim that bottom-line spending has grown slowly. I acknowledged as much right from the top of my post — and then went on to explain why this is a superficial way to look at Obama’s spending record. (Fwiw, I would argue that, at the very least, Politifact should have done a better job of looking for other FY09 spending bills Obama signed, which distorts his record vis-a-vis Bush’s.)

Let me use this analogy:

1. Nutting wrote the equivalent of “Joe drove home from work.”
2. I, noting that Joe made some stops along the way, wrote the equivalent of “Joe drove home from work, but stopped at a strip club on the way.”
3. Now, Joe’s friends are pointing to what Nutting wrote and saying, “See? Joe is a great family man because he drove straight home from work!”

In neither Nutting’s actual article nor the sentence I attributed to him in my illustration is there an actual falsehood. (Although, as noted above, I do think he overlooked some critical facts about FY09 spending.) But nor does his writing, in either case, tell the entire story.”

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willie lynch

May 30th, 2012
2:10 pm

Are you a stock holder in your company? If not then you are an employee and as such have no say so and just have to trust that while the company is looking out for its best interest then it is also looking out for your best interest to stay employed at that company.

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Thulsa: In absolute terms we are spending enormous sums compared to just 4 years ago. You cannot dispute the money being spent in absolute terms can you sir??? Nope. YOU CANNOT! Facts are facts.

Secondly another way to look at spending is as a percentage of GNP in which case under O we are spending significantly more- around 24% at last count vs the historical average of 18%

So which is it? Absolute dollar amounts, or percentage of GDP? Are we including every dollar spent since a certain date, or are we including spending only signed off on by Obama? Seems to me those actually make a huge difference tot he argument of whether or not it’s Obama that’s spending the money.

So I can look at misleading stats and take them into account. You on the other hand cannot due to willful blindness.

Right. Which is why you presented those same stats in support of your argument.

Jay can’t use that excuse about a contracted economy forever and 3 years later govt spending as a % of the economy is still 23-24% which is enormous. This falls squarely on Obama. He’s had 3 years of growth and 3 years to reduce the level of govt involvement in the economy and constrain govt spending.

What you are saying here is that in order to reduce spending, Obama must have proposed and signed off on slashing to the automatic increase in outlays due to baby boomers retiring and more people qualifying for federal aid and taking it. Because you know that’s where a good portion of the difference in GDP% came from right? Since you “look at misleading stats and take them into account”, right?

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TBG: Now, how about you admit that you have a habit of “putting words into others mouth”?

I did that exactly once to you today and you call it a habit. I’ll admit that I did that to you once today. I apologize.

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Thulsa: Moral of the story?- Omission and not telling the full story shows what BS Nutter’s article is.

Actually the moral of the story is that there is no level of statistical information that will satisfy you unless it supports the position you already have. And btw, what’s this about omission? Many of the articles “debunking” the Nutting article omit many spending items in order to make their point.

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BOTH

That was a good one, wasn’t it?

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td

May 30th, 2012
2:22 pm

Thank you for acknowledging my point. As an employee of a corporation you are not a part of this “people” designation they have been assigned. As a member of a union or AARP you do have a say in whether your organization contributes to one thing or another. Of course not all members of AARP or a union are going to vote the same but they are afforded an opportunity to exercise their right to have a say as part of the “people”.

I’m sorry it took so long to get here but we do agree.

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Thulsa: To put it another way, it’s Wingfield’s “analysis” that is BS, not Nutting’s article. Nutting presents everything and shows exactly how he came to his conclusion. People using that and picking it apart by saying it’s not detailed enough aren’t really willing to go as far down each rabbit hole as is necessary to get to the bottom of it all – they are looking for ways to justify that Obama is a big spender, the biggest ever, BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT THEY ALREADY BELIEVE.

You can’t claim the same for Nutting. NO ONE would have started an analysis of spending by President with the premise that Obama is the most frugal in decades.

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josef

I almost spit tea allover myself

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Joe Hussein Mama

May 30th, 2012
2:28 pm

Make all the excuses you want but my analogy is correct. There is no difference between corporations, unions and other associations. They are all like minded individuals looking out for their own self interest and give accordingly to candidates.

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Also for the record, if I put something like “you seem to be saying” that is my attempt at understanding your argument. I will not apologize for or stop this way of attempting to understand just because SOME PEOPLE think it means I’m putting words in their mouth. You can either get butthurt over that or choose to not be offended by it.

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If you think Obama can’t influence the price of oil, cannot control government spending, cannot improve employment, then you should work to nominate another candidate who can. If you don’t think he can fix the economic problems we have then there is no point in reelecting him. I am confident Romney CAN fix these problems and therefore I will vote for Romney. If I felt about Romney the way most of you Democrats feel about Obama, I wouldn’t bother to vote.

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Common Sense: You mean Obama promised to get rid of the Export-Import bank, a bank that, if eliminated, would cause an immediate and damaging loss of jobs to the entire country, and he DIDN’T DO IT? And he included corporate jet money? Wow. Guess I’ll go vote for the guy who would do the opposite…. oh wait….

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“Rejected. Corporations have no legal right of representation for either their employees or their officers. My employer has no legal right to speak for me, and I suspect your employer has no legal right to speak for you, either. Unless, of course, your employment agreement is *very* unusual.”

It would appear the Supreme court disagrees with you.

“Rejected. It doesn’t matter if people form any sort of organization, business or otherwise; that in and of itself does not grant the group any sort of power of representation over the group members or a group right to political representation. Read your Constitution”

Tell it to the Supreme court Joe.

“Incorrect. No. 1 I’m not referring to customers as you were a customer.”- Doomy

No, correct. If you don’t like my answer, then be more specific in your requests.- Joe mama

Or you can improve your reading comprehension. -Doomy

“I am referring to the owners of a particular company. Corporations are owned by people whether it be a single large shareholder or joe and jane main street who own shares through their 401ks or public employee pension fund.”- Doomy

“Irrelevant. Human ownership of an organization does not automatically confer some sort of ‘associate human’ status on the organization._ – Joe mama

No. It doesn’t. But the interests of that corporation and its owners can often be the same. The roofer that you spoke of has quite an interest in the success of his company and laws which may affect his business. To deny that is to deny the reality of the sun rising tomorrow morning.

“Irrelevant distinction.”

You asked for the difference, and I gave it to you. Don’t complain because you don’t like it.- Joe mama

Still irrelevant.

“And besides there are plenty of union members whose union dues go to support dem candidates that that particular union member does not support. No fairness in that is there?”

Union members can vote on *many* decisions of the union as well as vote on the union’s leadership. Corporate employees cannot. Which is more fair?- Joe mama

Somehow or another you forgot that corporations do not extract dues from their employees. Forgot that one did ya Joe???

“Yes. I do. Just as I also know that labor unions often support and send money to political parties and candidates that a good deal of their members may not support. And I suspect you know that also.”- Doom

“I also know that members of labor unions have much more opportunity to exert control over those donations than do either corporate employees or corporate shareholders. You’re barking up the wrong tree here, Doom.”- Joe mama

Is that a fact or just your opinion Joe? Because I was a teamster at UPS and I had little if any opportunity to exert control over my donations. I think where you need help here is in the distinction between rank and file individual members having influence and control over their donations and union leadership. The union leadership controls the decisions as to where political donations go. The rank and file have little or no say in the matter. Even you know that.

And if you think a rank and file union member is going to go strolling into Mr. Hoffa’s office and tell him how he thinks or wants his union dues to go to then bring me back one a them chocolately unicorns from liberal fantasyland. Considering that he pays dues his influence in on union matters is practically nil- not much if any more influence than a corporate employee and no more influence than a corporate shareholder who like a union voter can also vote.

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@ Oblama

Hey, I was just using the spelling provided by Romney – you must be calling him a “dropout” from his private school.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/romney-app-misspells-amercia/2012/05/29/gJQAgN8K0U_blog.html

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JamVet

May 30th, 2012
2:36 pm
I am in favor of everything on your list. I think there is nothing new on your list but if there is I am in favor of it. If they violate the law, throw the bast…. in jail. Politicians too.

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Failed to factor in the contested Republican primary did you not?

Nope, I did not. The fact remains that there has been more corporate money flowing to Republicans in this election as opposed to union money going to Democrats at this point. Therefore, the whole premise of union funds is nothing but specious bullsh*t at this point. That may be relevant in July or August, but not today.

—————————–

Bro, although Fox News beats CNN and the other cable news outlets, I don’t think they beat the broadcast news outlets (ABC, NBC, CBS).

If that’s the case, then the talking point needs to reflect that reality and not the dreamed up one where Fox is THE News channel. Also, that still does not negate the fact that, if Fox has higher ratings than CNN and other cable news outlets, they ARE in the mainstream media and not some fringe outlier as people try to portray them.

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“They are all like minded individuals looking out for their own self interest and give accordingly to candidates.”-td

td,

That’s an obvious bit of common sense. Unfortunately it is going to fall on deaf liberal ears.

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Common Sense: So even when he does not do what he said he would do, you support is endless, Adam.

What is hilarious is how much you guys think you can gain traction AGAINST Obama by citing promises that I would prefer he did NOT keep, not being kept.

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Adam and Jamvet – So if we tax the evil rich and corporations to the breaking point and redistribute all that ill gotten gain to the crack ho baby mommas would we still have a $15T economy ten years from now? Or would we be a lot more like Greece? The biggest failures of the Democratic party are: 1) failure to reverse the Reagan and Bush tax cuts, and 2) thereby making the middle class finance their handouts to the poor. All in all I’d rather see my money go the poor than the rich if those are the only choices but we can’t all be consumers with no producers as Greece is learning the hard way.

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Again you try to label me. I have never said I was a Romney supporter. What I am is a non supporter of the Oblama administration. Government of, by and for the politicians. Instead, I am for government of, by and for the citizens of the U.S.A. That leaves out Oblama. Can’t vote for more wasteful government spending. I am looking for someone with a clue of how turn this economy around. Oblama has had 4 years and several trillion dollars and he hasn’t shown what I need to see to vote for him. I’m looking for results – not fiction from our first “Reality Show” President.

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Also, if that’s an obvious bit of common sense, why are conservatives ganging up to dismantle unions but working hard as hell to give free reign to corporate campaign donations? If they are one and the same, isn’t it a conservative principle to let people express their Constitutional right to free speech without government regulation or interference?

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Rock on Righty.

Did you note the author?

More to chew on…

Only 40 percent of Americans think corporations make a positive contribution to the public good. And as for public trust, as the McKinsey Quarterly told The New York Times, large global corporations are at “the bottom of the list — beneath nongovernmental organizations, small regional companies, the United Nations, labor unions and the media.”

The ethical, legal, and business failings of Enron and WorldCom kicked off this descending spiral. Then came growing outrage over excessive corporate executive pay and the global financial meltdown. Greed and hubris – - not public trust – - were what many Americans came to associate with business.

And that was in 2007.

I would suspect that that 40% has NOT gone up since those dark days of September 2008…

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John Birch, I did not make it past “crack ho baby mommas”.

Perhaps there is a forum that specializes in racist, enraged sophistry that you could find and to which you could “contribute”…

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annnnnd I stopped reading.

You missed a real classy “crack ho baby mama” reference, then.

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…redistribute all that ill gotten gain to the crack ho baby mommas…

Why, it was just the other day when I was standing in line at Walgreen’s when this big fat __________ lady had two shopping carts filled with crack and she was paying for it with food stamps….

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Perhaps there is a forum that specializes in racist, enraged sophistry

But, enough about this outfit.

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Amercia – O.K. whatever. ……….. Don’t forget. See my above comment. I had nothing to do with nominating Romney. I’m not a Repub. Didn’t vote for “W” or Oblama. Our “Reality Show” President hasn’t produced results and with advisers like Nanny Pelosi I can understand why. If he had shown a serious effort to reduce government spending and the Fed debt I would consider him but he hasn’t and I won’t. This election is about the economy, jobs and reducing this alarming Fed debt….. Oblama is about race warfare/ sex warfare/ class warfare/ age warfare and dividing voters to get reelected. Can’t buy that.

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Doom — “It would appear the Supreme court disagrees with you.”

Citation, please. Show me where an employer has the right or authority to speak for you.

“Tell it to the Supreme court Joe.”

Citation, please. And please be specific; show me where individuals, forming a group of any sort, *automatically* grant that group the right to speak for and represent them as individuals.

“Or you can improve your reading comprehension. -Doomy”

My reading comprehension and writing skills are superior to your own, Doom. I can only do so much to help you if you can’t express yourself clearly, young man.

“No. It doesn’t.”

Thank you for that.

“But the interests of that corporation and its owners can often be the same.”

Can be, but are not *obliged* to be. Surely you recognize this.

“The roofer that you spoke of has quite an interest in the success of his company and laws which may affect his business. To deny that is to deny the reality of the sun rising tomorrow morning.”

And said roofer is a lot more likely to be an LLC or a Sole Proprietorship than a publicly traded corporation. Come now, Doom, you know what people on my side are objecting to here. Kindly stop muddying the waters.

“Still irrelevant.”

I know you think so, but actually it’s an inconvenient truth that you apparently don’t want to face. No matter.

“Somehow or another you forgot that corporations do not extract dues from their employees. Forgot that one did ya Joe???”

Not at all, and thanks for walking into that! It just demonstrates that union members have much more control over the organization they belong to than corporate employees do. Thanks for the assist!

“Is that a fact or just your opinion Joe?”

It’s a fact.

“Because I was a teamster at UPS”

So was I.

“and I had little if any opportunity to exert control over my donations.”

Not my fault if you didn’t stick around long enough to participate in the applicable votes.

“I think where you need help here”

I don’t need help on this from you, Doom. You’re quite simply wrong on this point.

“is in the distinction between rank and file individual members having influence and control over their donations and union leadership. The union leadership controls the decisions as to where political donations go. The rank and file have little or no say in the matter. Even you know that.”

Once again, since you seem to have trouble getting this, the rank and file in a union have FAR more control over the actions of their union than corporate employees do over the actions of their employer. And you cannot dispute this because — as you say — facts are facts.

You may not think that union members have *enough* control over the actions of their leadership, but that’s irrelevant to the point I’m making, which is — once again — that the rank and file in a union have FAR more control over the actions of their union than corporate employees do over the actions of their employer.

“And if you think a rank and file union member is going to go strolling into Mr. Hoffa’s office and tell him how he thinks or wants his union dues to go to then bring me back one a them chocolately unicorns from liberal fantasyland.”

No one said or thought any such thing, Doom. Once again, you make things up and dishonestly try to represent them as my position. I’d appreciate it if you’d stop doing that, please.

“Considering that he pays dues his influence in on union matters is practically nil- not much if any more influence than a corporate employee”

I accept your concession on that point, Doom. Thank you.

“and no more influence than a corporate shareholder who like a union voter can also vote.

I’m going to ask you the same question I asked td. I’d like for you to tell me the percentage of shareholder-led petitions that actually get adopted and acted on each year at US corporations. Go ahead.

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I notice Brave Jay still hasn’t addressed the multitude of corporations which ran untold millions worth of unpaid in-kind advertising for Obama in the last election–just as they do for all Democrats in all elections, to say nothing of serving as free oppo researchers and propagandists against conservatives and Republicans. He’s not going to, of course, because those corporations happen to be media companies, and they get a special “journalism” pass from other liberal mediots like Bookman. You see, they’ve been anointed with the special “media” perfume that turns them into higher beings who can’t possibly be biased towards a particular ideology and political party.

You really aren’t fooling anybody, Jay.

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We’re already there. This is a plutocracy, period.

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Don’t hate – just don’t love what Oblama stands for. S O C I A L I S M.

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Jamvet – Most of the budget goes to defense and transfer payments, that’s just reality. And 70% of Americans want something done about the illegal alien situation, and they don’t mean amnesty, but neither Bush and the Rep congress or Obama and the Dem congress did anything substantial about it. Why? 1) we don’[t have a democracy, and 2) When you have the best healthcare money can buy, live in gated communities and send your kids to private schools the aliens are just a source of cheap domestic help, not overcrowded emergency rooms and public schools. Oops, guess that’s racist too in your view. I happen to believe it’s not prejudicial if it’s true!

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9 of ten of the top states are red!!!! Just shows the failed demoncrat policies at work…

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/04/gallup_job_creation_best_in_red_state_cities.html

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Are you saying you HAVEN’T done it before to my self and others?

No I’m sure I have. But if it was a habit wouldn’t I be doing it more frequently and have been called out for it more?

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Why is CNN so facinated with the birther issue??? Sununu set em straight though. LOL….

http://nation.foxnews.com/soledad-obrien/2012/05/30/romney-man-crushes-soledad-o-brien-you-out-be-embarrassed

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td — “You have no rights as an employee”

I’m not *speaking* of employee rights. I’m speaking of *union member* rights. You have clearly misread or misunderstood me.

“As far as shareholders goes they have as much say so as individual union members or as members of an organization because it is their risked money at stake. Where is the risk for an individual union member?”

I see. Risking one’s investment capital is somehow MORE chancy than risking one’s livelihood. Is that actually what you mean to say?

“Where is the risk of a member of the AARP?”

WTF is this prattle about “risk?” What are you trying to say?

“The SCOTUS disagrees with you”

Well, nobody’s perfect.

“and by your definition then the rich will even have more influence then they do now.”

Rejected. You know, you could stand to ask more questions and leap to fewer conclusions.

By *my* definition, there should be ONLY personal donations; no corporate or group donations. Further, by *my* definition, donations should go ONLY to announced candidates and to political parties actually running a candidate in the donator’s district. Furthermore, by *my* definition, there should be an *annual* limit on both candidate and party donations — and it should be a Federal offense to *make* OR to *accept* donations in violation of those limits.

That’s *my* definition. Not the crap you were making up and trying to shove in my mouth.

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Doom

1) Enron, Arthur Andersen, Lehman Brothers… YOu act as though corruption is limited to one specific organization.

2) Obviously, you don’t know about Communication Workers of America v. Beck, 487 U.S. 735 (1988). Maybe you should check into that a bit. I’ve tried to explain ad nauseum here that unions can not use dues for political purposes. That meme has been done away with long ago. On the fed level, the unions have formed their own PAC to get contributions. That one’s nothing but Jason Voorhees…

3) And corporations didn’t almost bankrupt the entire country? Save the scorn for one segment dude. Go back and research the number of unfunded benefits left by corporations. What you fail to realize is that unions have to negotiate everything they get. They are not like CEO’s and can buy off a board to pass everything they choose. That’s why it’s called bargaining. Obviously, the MBA’s can’t bargain worth a sh*t, and it’s evident with the CEO packages passed around.

Public sector unfunded pensions grew in 2007 because most, if not all, are vested in the stock market. Add the fact that politicians can’t budget worth a damn and don’t accurately fund things to begin with, and that’s the main cause of your issue. Unions don’t control government budgets, and they don’t set the spending levels. Your issue is with the politicians who negotiate to make the deals, and then don’t hold up their end of the budget. Yet, you allow your partisaned thinking to lay blame on the unions.

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Adam

May 30th, 2012
2:36 pm
Also for the record, if I put something like “you seem to be saying” that is my attempt at understanding your argument. I will not apologize for or stop this way of attempting to understand just because SOME PEOPLE think it means I’m putting words in their mouth. You can either get butthurt over that or choose to not be offended by it.
_________________________________________________________________________
I’m going to ASSume this was directed at me, so, when I want to better understand someone’s position I will ask a question, such as “Are you saying…” not make a statement like “you seem to be saying”, but that’s just me.

Your typical course of action is “Put TBG down as against ANY campaign contributions whatsoever in a zero tolerance policy.”

Or in response to another poster;

“You are on record as supporting/opposing…”

THAT’S putting words in anothers mouth, which you repeaditly do.

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Dems and Repubs – corruption is a two way street my friend. Psychopaths reside on the far reaches of both sides. The fact is that they are all politicians of, by and for themselves and they are all about getting themselves reelected at any cost. Time is right for a 3rd party of, by and for the people for a change. If Ross Perot was twenty years younger and ran as an independent today he would win in a landslide.

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JamVet

Hell, I know I don’t fund them. It’s far cheaper to wait until movies come out on tv nowadays.

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Whatever happened to the “alpha dog” Egore? Guess he is proud of his running mate and future inmate.

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No, time is right for the GOP to come back to the center and work for the American people, not corporations. Some of the Dems (conservadems) are equally as reprehensible, but – by and large, the GOP is the problem, and the Tea Party is worse. Libertarians have some good ideals but much of it is not realistic in a 21st century world.

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Matti
and you will do more to
make things better than
all these wordslingers
combined.

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Brosephus™

May 30th, 2012
2:50 pm
Also, if that’s an obvious bit of common sense, why are conservatives ganging up to dismantle unions but working hard as hell to give free reign to corporate campaign donations? If they are one and the same, isn’t it a conservative principle to let people express their Constitutional right to free speech without government regulation or interference?
___________________________________________________________________
Only if it allows them to gain/hold on to power.

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Republicans have super pacs….dems have unions…What is the difference?

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TBG

I just try to deal with reality. It’s too friggin’ hard trying to keep up with all the different parallel universes. BTW… if you didn’t see the link I left for a documentary “What Black Men Think” or if you haven’t seen it, you gotta check it out. As a conservative Black man, you’ll probably like it. It exposes some of the myths that get passed around, and it also exposes the more conservative thinking that Black men have. I’ll probably have a dvd copy of it before too long.

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Since everyone’s vote counts this same, this is a good way to even things out.

In other words, those who produce (vs. non-producers) do the most to help this country.

Let ‘er rip !!

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Oblama
Obama killed Osama.

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Joe Mama,

Supreme court has decided that corporations can donate money. Plain and simple and you’re just going to have to live with it. I guess they really are people.

“Come now, Doom, you know what people on my side are objecting to here’.

No. My mind reading abilities have been failing me of late. What is it that you object to? Is it corporate money going to Romney in bigger numbers? Cause you guys sure didn’t seem to have a problem with all that corporate money in the way of folks like Goldman Sachs and all that insurance company money going to O 4 years ago.

“Once again, since you seem to have trouble getting this, the rank and file in a union have FAR more control over the actions of their union than corporate employees do over the actions of their employer.”

That certainly wasn’t my experience nor that of anyone I know in a union. And considering the amount of dues paid it it certainly wasn’t worth it even if the average employee actually did have some control over his union. And if they do have more actual control the idea that they have “FAR” more control is pretty funny given my experience and those of people I know.

“No one said or thought any such thing, Doom. Once again, you make things up and dishonestly try to represent them as my position. I’d appreciate it if you’d stop doing that, please.”

Quite a stretch Joe. That’s not a “dishonest” misrepresentation of your point in any way, shape, or fashion. That’s just me making a point that you know to be true and you just don’t like it. So you resort to your all too predictable pattern of then saying someone is being “dishonest”. I wondered when you were going to bring out that tired old inflated charge of yours. Your bogus charge of dishonesty is the usual shyte we can always expect from you when you don’t like someone’s point.

“I’m going to ask you the same question I asked td. I’d like for you to tell me the percentage of shareholder-led petitions that actually get adopted and acted on each year at US corporations. Go ahead.”

Irrelevant point. And if it was relevant do you really think I’m going to spend my time researching your talking points? Seriously?

Joe mama, Try to keep your points to a minimum. I will answer less and less of them each go around since you seem to drift towards writing novels. I’ve had to admonish you several times on this and yet you just keep going back to novel writing. I realize you’re into blog oneupmanship but try to keep it to just a few major points.

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Steve,

Thanks, and I agree. (I’d actually vote Libertarian more if they’d run candidates that weren’t bat-shiz crazy.) The hyper-partisanship is too much fun for people who like to lash out and unleash their frustrations by blaming others. (Yes, I’m guilty sometimes too.)

But… back to the reasoning mind, nothing gets fixed until “we the people” decide to stop squabbling with each other, put the remotes down, and put the effort into informing ourselves about what’s really going on in our communities. How did a *gasp* “community organizer” become PotUS? For one thing, he got to know what common, everyday American families are struggling with. He wasn’t afraid to roll up his sleeves and get in there to deal with the totally NON-glamorous stuff that never makes it to the national/global “news” scene.

A person who has no idea who represents them at the state capitol has no cred with me in a political discussion. State and local legislators affect us directly: schools, infrastructure, taxes, property values, local economies, corruption…. At this level, the letter beside the name means almost nothing; but they hope you’ll just vote for that letter, trust, and be satisfied, instead of taking a good hard look at what they’re doing.

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Man. I don’t want to diss anyone solely on the basis of their religious beliefs…

My criticism has nothing to do with religious beliefs. That idiot saw his dad die in almost the same manner and didn’t learn a damn thing. Stupid people breed more stupid people.

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Is it today or Thursday that the CIA brings the folder full of pictures of towel-heads…

Aaaaannnnnnnnddddd I quit reading.

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Steve – the “center” isn’t where it was just ten years ago. The fact is the Dems “center” is left of where it was ten years ago and the Repubs “center’ is also left of where it was ten years ago. JFK would be far right of where the Dem “center” is today. He was a fiscal conservative. Sam Nunn, considered a moderate leader of the Dem Party a few short years ago would be shunned by the leadership in the Dem Party today for his “far right” views. Neither was for abortion on demand or gay marriage. The Dems are far to the left and the Repubs have moved to the middle. Both are big government spenders but for different causes. Just where is the “center”?

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Scout

Could you further define producers and non producers?

Unless you are saying those who work vs those you do not, but I don’t want to assume what you are saying

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“In time, if the system is not reformed, Democrats too will be forced to bend a knee to those who believe that big money justifies having a big voice”

In time? In time?? In time??? Like the Democrats don’t bow to Unions already? LOL

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Adam

May 30th, 2012
3:12 pm
Are you saying you HAVEN’T done it before to my self and others?

No I’m sure I have. But if it was a habit wouldn’t I be doing it more frequently and have been called out for it more?
________________________________________________________________
Whatever d00d.

I’m not going to sit here and play “is it a habit?” with you.

Others here have called you out for it.

But keep whistling.

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Dems “center” is left of where it was ten years ago and the Repubs “center’ is also left of where it was ten years ago.

Both parts of that statement are opinions, and are factually incorrect.

And without any verifiable, corroborating evidence, they are interesting, but useless.

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Tell you what Jay, since you are concerned with freedom and represenative rights lets start a compromise movement. We can find it unconstitutional for millioneers to collectively contribute to the republican party soley based on the fact they are rich (which is most surely spelled out in the constitution) and the libs can declare it unconstitutional for the Unions to enforce mandated contributions and membership with which 98 % of the democrats are funded.

Representation would be nice,but maybe I am wrong, maybe ALL blue collar union workers are democrats, humm–doubt it though

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Adam makes a good point. I often wonder if I could wake up one day a con. Not that I have seen anything that would convince me to, but I wonder how the other side can be so wrong, what in hell have I missed, not all of these people are stupid until we start to talk politics. Then they start repeating a lie they heard at church or on television, never researched. I wonder if some people have so much money the lie serves them better than the truth. But then again these same people believe homosexuality is a choice, and I will tell you now if I can decide to be gay I certainly can run off the road and be a con, they both have about as much appeal to me.

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Superpacs?

Could never figure out how people who feel so strongly about an issue could donate such large sums while at the same time be such cowards they don’t want anybody to know what they’re working towards.

Oblama

“. I asked “Why is Oblama getting credit for killing Osama?” Did he produce the intelligence that found Osama? NO. Did he develop the plan to kill Osama? NO. Did he personally take part in the invasion that killed Osama? NO. Did he take credit for killing Osama? YES!”

Did Roosevelt get credit for winning WWII? Did he produce the intelligence, develop the invasion of Europe plan, personally land on Omahaa beach? NO. Should he take credit for being the leader of the most powerful nation that defeated the Axis? Of course not. Cause Roosevelt was just the president at a time our nation was fighting for its very existence. No big deal. Roosevelt was just a figurehead.

sheesh -

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George Soros raises money for Obama is ok,but Karl Rove raises money for Republicans is not ok,correct?

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Doom — “Supreme court has decided that corporations can donate money. Plain and simple and you’re just going to have to live with it. I guess they really are people.”

It’s more complicated than that, actually. Are you familiar with stare decisis?

“No. My mind reading abilities have been failing me of late. What is it that you object to?”

We’re objecting to the unaccountability that goes with essentially unlimited and untraceable soft political money. You are, too, but you seem to be objecting to union money simply based on your apparent personal dislike of labor unions. *Some* soft money seems to be okay with you, while other soft money doesn’t. Personally, I think we should eliminate it all.

“Is it corporate money going to Romney in bigger numbers? Cause you guys sure didn’t seem to have a problem with all that corporate money in the way of folks like Goldman Sachs and all that insurance company money going to O 4 years ago.”

Given what I’ve been posting in this thread, your objection is just plain laughable. I’m opposed to ALL political money that doesn’t come from human beings, and I think there ought to be a low and FIRM ceiling on how much individuals can donate. I don’t think that businesses, unions OR civic groups should be donating AT ALL. In short, if you can’t vote, then IMO you can’t donate either.

“That certainly wasn’t my experience nor that of anyone I know in a union.”

Sorry, but my experience and the experience of *many* of my friends and relatives disagrees with yours.

“Quite a stretch Joe. That’s not a “dishonest” misrepresentation of your point in any way, shape, or fashion.”

Yes, actually it is. Neither I nor anyone here even remotely suggested that a rank-and-file union man could just stroll into Hoffa’s office and I think you know it. The stretch was completely your own.

“That’s just me making a point that you know to be true and you just don’t like it.”

No, that’s you being dishonest and suggesting that others are saying things that you know they didn’t say.

“So you resort to your all too predictable pattern of then saying someone is being “dishonest”. I wondered when you were going to bring out that tired old inflated charge of yours. Your bogus charge of dishonesty is the usual shyte we can always expect from you when you don’t like someone’s point.”

I’ll bite then, Doom. Show me EXACTLY where I suggested this: “. . . you think a rank and file union member is going to go strolling into Mr. Hoffa’s office and tell him how he thinks or wants his union dues to go to . . .”

I said nothing of the sort, and you know it. To represent that statement as anything other than dishonesty is absolutely reprehensible.

“Irrelevant point. And if it was relevant do you really think I’m going to spend my time researching your talking points? Seriously?”

Your concession on that point is accepted, Doom.

“Joe mama, Try to keep your points to a minimum.”

No. You will have to try harder to catch up, Doom.

“I will answer less and less of them each go around”

I know you will, and I know you can’t help it. ;D

“since you seem to drift towards writing novels.

Some people find writing easy. If you don’t, that doesn’t obligate me to slow down to your level, Doom.

“I’ve had to admonish you several times on this”

Oh, I hadn’t noticed that! I just thought you were complaining because you couldn’t keep up.

“and yet you just keep going back to novel writing.”

Again, writing is easy for some; not so much for others. Sorry!

“I realize you’re into blog oneupmanship”

Given how frequently you wave your e-peen around on Jay’s blog, this is pretty funny.

“but try to keep it to just a few major points.”

Shall I also use short words of two syllables or less? Would that help? (laughing)

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I asked “Why is Oblama getting credit for killing Osama?”

I answered you before, but I’ll try again.

It’s simple. The sitting President gets credit for any major success of the troops and blame for any major troop failure. Simple as that.

If Osama had been killed under the same circumstances, with the order being given by the President in the exact same situation, in 2007 – would Bush have gotten credit? YES.

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Oh so the story has been revised again? Obama pulled the trigger? Osama was “assigned” for elimination long before Oblama got in office. Don’t really see the hero part of this with Oblama. I don’t see why this would be a difficult political decision. There was a failed invasion in Somalia , approved of by Oblama not long ago where several special forces died in an attempt to save hostages.. I didn’t see a big uproar over that. The vast majority of voters were for killing Osama. There was NO risk to Oblama politically. I’m not saying Oblama did any thing wrong in this case but he is not responsible for killing Osama unless you are saying he could have aborted the mission like Clinton did. The Dems gave him credit while someone else risked their lives. Oblama led media ran with it and Oblama was willing to take credit. That’s the bottom line.

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Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

May 30th, 2012
3:27 pm
You come here almost every day and single out Adam to somehow make an example of him.

Says more about you than it does him.
________________________________________________________________________
Did you notice that it was ADAM that responded to what I posted to Jay?
Did you notice that I havn’t posted ANYTHING to Adam in almost 2 week (since the day I apologized to him for being rude to him)
You have been at *ME* since I made that stupid and inappropriate joke about getalife (for which he has forgiven me).
I could say “it says alot about YOU”, but, in all honesty, it doesn’t.
Just observin’.

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Oblama

Keep flailing as you have all day………. One day you will be lucky and land a punch, if you haven’t tired yourself out by that time……

Stay away from any sort of sparing

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“How many politicians are forced to own up to their mistakes and their policies which wreak havoc or end up inhibiting economic growth? Where is their accountability?”

That is the electorate’s gullibility and fault. Plain and simple

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I give Oblama credit for not aborting the mission to kill Osama – which would have been political suicide if it came out. That’s all the credit he gets in my book. There was NO political risk involved here since the public agreed in numerous polls already that Osama should be killed. If the mission failed – so what? At least they tried.

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Jay,
Democrats sold out to big money, win at any cost a long time ago. You might remember that Obama was the first candidate to raise a billion dollars much of it from big banks and big money donors. To pretend otherwise is hypocricy but we are used to it from you.

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JamVet: Dems “center” is left of where it was ten years ago and the Repubs “center’ is also left of where it was ten years ago.

Both parts of that statement are opinions, and are factually incorrect.

In fact, there is data that shows the opposite to be true: http://voteview.com/blog/?p=317

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Money is NOT free speech; money is a super stereo surround sound system that drowns out the voices of “we, the people”–the sound you are hearing is the death knell of democracy.

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They Both Suck – you trying to balance yourself on the fence without having to commit to any real opinion is what is really hilarious. You can’t take both sides on every thing or no side on any thing and expect to be taken seriously. Get a back bone. Take a stand on something. What are you for? What are you against?

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Scout: I’m tired of having my vote cancelled by someone who never lifted a finger in their life !

No such person exists, unless disabled from birth.

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ld @ 4:08,

TRUTH!

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Adam and Oblama

The credit goes to the TROOPS, CIA, etc; whomever was on the ground gathering intelligence and those who actually carried out the mission.

Whomever is in the WH loves the credit because they made the “call”, plus it is good for PR.

Before Iraq turned into a clusterfvck, many on the right couldn’t lavish enough praise on Bush because he made the call to invade, however he didn’t do the “heavy lifting”.

Same goes for Obama with OBL.

Saying it was on their watch and they should be credited for the call is one thing………….. Credit for the execution is another story indeed

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Paul: I see how that works, if it were consistent. But it’s not.

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Matti:

See my 4:10

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In case you folks didn’t know Carl Rove is a traitor and a liar.

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It’s been said many times before and also in this blog: not voting is the reason we got Obama. If you don’t vote and don’t support your party, you get exactly what you deserve.

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John Birch, 1:49 pm

“Mary Elizabeth – Isn’t it hard to justify enjoying the standard of living capatalism [sic] has provided while cursing the evil corporations?”
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I never “cursed” corporations, nor did I refer to them as “evil.” However, I do believe in an egalitarian society, as did our nation’s founders. Corporations, in the large majority, practice a hierarchial value system in which CEO’s salaries are extremely out of proportion to the salaries of corporate workers. Without their workers, corporations would cease to exist. Corporate powers need to be reminded of this fact, even as they contribute to the economic well being of many. Corporations should never have primary power over the laws of this nation because their vision is essentially a hierarchial, and not an egalitarian, vision. Corporations have their place in American society. However, the overriding power, within this nation, must continue rest in the hands of ordinary American workers, not in exclusive hands of the top 1% of the wealthy elite, who will continue to safeguard their own self-interests. That is primarily why you should vote a Democratic ticket in November.

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why doesnt OBAMA get SOROS, BUFFET and HOLLYWOOD to get him a billion dollar PAC?

Excuse me, but I thought somehow they were secretly funding a socialist takeover of everything IN THE WOOOOORLD or something? Surely if this was the case Obama wouldn’t NEED to ask, it would already be done.

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The president was elected because of the GOPs lack of creditiblity and polocies that wrecked the country. There is no proof they would change anything that they did before.

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“I’ll bite then, Doom. Show me EXACTLY where I suggested this: “. . . you think a rank and file union member is going to go strolling into Mr. Hoffa’s office and tell him how he thinks or wants his union dues to go to . . .”

Joe Mama,

Oh my God. You really can’t see that as what it is- just a rhetorical statement. And you were an English major? Bless your heart. And you take this gigantic leap making a rhetorical statement into a blatant display of dishonesty. I don’t know that you think that Joe. I’m simply making the statement that if you do or if you believe anything close to that then you can bring me back a chocolately unicorn. Geez.

Anyway, no point in responding to the rest of your post though some of it was mildly amusing- in that grade school sort of way of course. Too much gobbledeegook and besides I warned you about writing novels. Have a nice day Joe.

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Too much gobbledeegook and besides I warned you about writing novels.

FOLLOW THE RULES JOE (even if you don’t know what they are)

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ADAM

could it be that maybe SOROS and BUFFET do not agree with OBAMA’s policies and actions?
could it be that Hollywood while contributing to his personal campaign think if they fund a SUPER PAC there would be a back-lash from the viewing public who are slowly retreating from paying $12 a movie ticket to fund the political whims of the HOLLYWOOD 1%ERS?

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Brosephus™

May 30th, 2012
3:36 pm
TBG

I just try to deal with reality. It’s too friggin’ hard trying to keep up with all the different parallel universes. BTW… if you didn’t see the link I left for a documentary “What Black Men Think” or if you haven’t seen it, you gotta check it out. As a conservative Black man, you’ll probably like it. It exposes some of the myths that get passed around, and it also exposes the more conservative thinking that Black men have. I’ll probably have a dvd copy of it before too long.
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No Bro, I didn’t see it. Can you repost it?

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They BOTH suck: I do not think they should exist and have called out Obama and Jay for Obama’s hypocrisy on this issue.

To me, Obama supporting a SuperPAC on his side is:

Short term – Same as bringing a gun to a gun fight (instead of a knife, or fists).
Long term – it allows him and other Democrats to actually fight against those things – something the right will not do.

To me, it’s almost like the question: Would you use a cure for cancer if it was the Nazis who developed it?

Of COURSE you would.

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Oblama

You gave Obama the credit for not aborting the mission?

Why would he have aborted the mission?

You give a person credit for not doing something there was no need to do?

BTW, the parsing (he gets credit, but not for the success. He gets half credit for this, partial credit for that, some credit for…) seems petty. As if one is merely looking for a way to be negative.

You do realize that in the planning stages it was Obama who directed the helicopter raid option, don’t you? Not the other options, such as an air strike? So how is it you don’t give credit for success for the plan he put in motion in the first place?

I’m going to have to see your response when I return – appointment in 15 minutes.

Bottom line, as I said, is all the parsing is not very becoming.

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could it be that maybe SOROS and BUFFET do not agree with OBAMA’s policies and actions?

If so, you wouldn’t know it from the hate being spewed at them from the same people who do the same to Obama.

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THEY BOTH SUCK-I will go further and say that limits on individuals, corporations and unions should be limited to small contributions. These crazy donations on all sides imo sort of dilutes one man, one vote.

we must have Congress pass laws that RESTRICT campaigns to such…….. for instance only contributions to a Congressional candidate from actual constitutes in that district……….

if the SCOTUS then over-turns on free speech…………

THEN AMEND THE CONSTITUITON

once amended……… the SCOTUS cannot legislate

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TBG: Info that Bro posted last night

http://documentarychannel.com/movie.php?currID=10403&t=What-Black-Men-Think

Janks Morton presents a searing examination of the role that myths, stereotypes and misrepresentations have played in the decimation of modern era black relationships, and how the symbiotic relationship between government, the media and black leadership perpetuates misinformation to further marginalize the role of black men in society. Since the triumphs of the civil rights legislations of the early 1960’s havoc and decimation has been wreaked on the Black family with a specific devastation on the Black man. With negative imagery of the media, the failed policy of the great society and modern era black leadership abandoning tenets that historically held the community together, a new form of mental slavery has perpetuated an undeclared civil war in the Black Community…

Seems that there are many pseudo experts here, so here’s the golden opportunity to find out what we think as though you’re doing the interviewing yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISSm41HNQFk&feature=player_embedded

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I am out for the day, see you all later!

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Adam

I understand your point and Jay brought that up one time when I was calling out Obama. It is a valid point, however Obama is still a hypocrite on that particular issue.

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Jay, are you stupid or dishonest?

Every known source has the President raising far more funds than the Republicans- and you know it. The unions have gone dollar for dollar with the corporations in every recent election cycle, if not exceeding them.

This is even below YOU, and you are as full of the Kool Aid as anyone I know-

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Uncle Sam

Politically we are probably much more different than alike at least based on the posts I have read, however we do agree on this issue.

All this money from funneling into these campaigns is not for the benefit of the average citizen……… Not saying that avg. Joe never benefits, but on the whole……. I have my doubts to say the least

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“Every known source”

Got links? And not Hannity or Rush please.

BTW, I’m not saying you’re wrong, just asking for a link b/c I’m curious.

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Matti

May 30th, 2012
3:39 pm
The hyper-partisanship is too much fun for people who like to lash out and unleash their frustrations by blaming others. (Yes, I’m guilty sometimes too.)
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Matti, you are soooo correct.

I was reading about the guy in Miami that ate the homeless guy’s face, and within 5 or 8 comments the blame shifted to Obama and Bush, dem and repub.

Now that was just sad.

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Well, I see we got about 9 pages of feuding about a few million bucks in political contributions, while our freedom is being taken away by the guvmint as we fight.

The state of Idaho has just banned the sale of a brand called Five Wives Vodka. The state claims the name is offensive to many. Well, I don’t know about you, but if some guy is stupid enough to be nagged and spent to the poorhouse by five wives, I’m not the least offended. Serves the sucker right. He better hope they don’t all file for divorce at the same time.

I’m about to head back to the warehouse for my check-in. It won’t be long till I’m on the way to Simpsons Trailer Park and Fox News. Have a good night everybody.

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They BOTH suck

May 30th, 2012
4:31 pm
Uncle Sam

Politically we are probably much more different than alike at least based on the posts I have read, however we do agree on this issue.

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and even in disagreement we could still sit at the table and come to agreements on actions to solve problems like THEY USE TO DO IN WASHINGTON

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I’ll bite then, Doom. Show me EXACTLY where I suggested this: “. . . you think a rank and file union member is going to go strolling into Mr. Hoffa’s office and tell him how he thinks or wants his union dues to go to . . .”

I said nothing of the sort, and you know it. To represent that statement as anything other than dishonesty is absolutely reprehensible.- Joe Mama

Joe mama,

I just realized just how truly dishonest you really are.

In that sentence you truncated and left off where I said the word IF. In that statement I wrote ” “IF” you think a rank and file….”. I never said ” you think” which is the way you presented it back to me- you went out of your way to leave out that word IF.

That “IF” changes the entire context of the statement. And you damn well know that. Which is why you truncated and left it off in the statement you sent back to me in which you accused me of dishonesty by saying I was representing what you think. I never said you “think” this. I said “IF you think…” You blatantly lied and are a dishonest man. And the proof of how you did it is right there for everyone on the blog to see.

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Spoken like a true dedicated liberal. Corporations need to close down and lay off everyone.

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Adam

May 30th, 2012
4:05 pm
TBG: Others here have called you out for it.

Dave R did on a regular basis. I shouldn’t have to explain why he doesn’t count. But it has been a while since anyone said I did this. I’m sorry if I am doing it way more regularly and I don’t notice it, but if it is as bad as you say I am sure there would be more than just a few people here and there saying that I do this more regularly. It’s not like people here don’t speak up when something bothers a majority.
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I’m done with it.

Just please stop putting words in my mouth. If you want to know what I am trying to say, just ask.

Thanks

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You can drink the kool-aid only so long…

“Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door”, but only if you “get your foot in the door. “He who lives by the sword, shall die by the sword”, especially if you try to “catch a falling knife.” “You scratch my back, and I’ll scratch yours” and you’ll never be “left at the altar.” If you “keep your nose to the grindstone,” you’ll always “knock it out of the ballpark.”

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One thing I can say about liberals, whether they win or lose, they are still idiots. Winning doesn’t fix stupid, it just makes it popular.

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They BOTH suck

May 30th, 2012
4:14 pm
Oblama
So as I posted earlier, keep flailing. NOPE, wait a second Better for you to stop, best you could do would be to punch yourself……….

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if you want corporations out of politics would you also move unions out of politics?

Of course.

Labor unions play an enormously important role in this country (before they were systematically destroyed by the plutocrats and their GOP flunkies anyway), but buying off politicians is not that role.

Between them being gutted and the only other voice for working Americans being effectively silenced – the government – is it any wonder that most working people in this country earn virtually no more money than they did in 1973?

Yet, some here seem to think that is a great thing. You tell me…

RC, I dig the new moniker.

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Corporations need to close down and lay off everyone.

Don, do you always write like an upset 15 year old?

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Adam

May 30th, 2012
4:21 pm
Too much gobbledeegook and besides I warned you about writing novels.

FOLLOW THE RULES JOE (even if you don’t know what they are)
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Touché

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Both Sides Suck – I have taken on both sides many times on this blog. Especially on unbridled Fed spending. I have also stated that I am neither Dem nor Repub and didn’t vote for “W” or Oblama. I’m not for abortion on demand, I’m not for gay marriage. I’m not for socialism. I’m for government of, by and for the people (citizens of the U.S.A.) I’m not for this huge expansion of the government in to areas where it doesn’t belong. Currently we have government of, by and for the politicians. We need TERM LIMITS in Congress for BOTH sides. This election is not about race warfare/ sex warfare/ class warfare/ age warfare/ victim warfare/ …….. it is about the economy, jobs and how to reduce this alarming FED debt. You have a right to your opinion – even if I don’t know what it is. I’m a sheep for the preservation of this country and it’s freedom. No political party owns me. Going to work now so I can pay my taxes. By the way did you see where 3.4 million citizens have left New York State over the last 6 years? Why? High taxes and government over-regulation were listed as the top two reasons. I’m a fiscal conservative and proud of it. We need a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution to bring sanity back to Congress and to reduce the outside influence of lobbyists and big money.

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Republicans went on and on. And on. And on and on… about how their lives, their very existence, was in jeopardy because it took so many dollars to fill up their Hummers. President Obama delivered them from their high oil prices and what do they do. Not so much as a thank you. Some people are just so ungrateful. I’m aghast.

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Oil Prices are well below 90 a barrel today, lowest since 2008. I feel the earth moving under my feet.

No fracking wonder.

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Joe mama,

You truncated my statement in a deceitful and misleading manner and I laid it out right there for anyone on the blog to see. You lied. Plain and simple.

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We need TERM LIMITS in Congress for BOTH sides.

Geez, not this crap again.

We already have TERM LIMITS, they’re called ELECTIONS.

Seeing as how re-election rates for congress critters is in the 80-90% range the only people whinging about TERM LIMITS are cry babies boo-hooing about other people’s representatives and not their own.

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“President Obama delivered them from their high oil prices ….”

First it was, Obama can’t control oil prices. Now, it’s the messiah delivered lower oil prices.

Is that a Flip Flop or just hypocrisy?

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If O could control that it would have never gone up in the first place, but as oil goes down the economy does better. It is all luck, but if you want to blame the man for someone else’s child, when it comes out beautiful he gets the unearn credit for that too.

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THEY BOTH SUCK

sorry but you are manipulating the fact that NY is losing population proportional to the rest of the country…………. FUZZY MATH

http://www.gallup.com/poll/145397/states-losing-congressional-seats-tilt-democratic.aspx

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