Is this gov’t by the people, for the people?
In his historic Gettysburg Address, President Abraham Lincoln spoke somberly of the horrific sacrifice that had been made by so many so “that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”
I do not believe that this is the government of the people, by the people and for the people that Lincoln described, and that our Founding Fathers had earlier fought so hard to create:
Republican superPACs and other outside groups shaped by a loose network of prominent conservatives – including Karl Rove, the Koch brothers and Tom Donohue of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce – plan to spend roughly $1 billion on November’s elections for the White House and control of Congress, according to officials familiar with the groups’ internal operations.
That total includes previously undisclosed plans for newly aggressive spending by the Koch brothers, who are steering funding to build sophisticated, county-by-county operations in key states. POLITICO has learned that Koch-related organizations plan to spend about $400 million ahead of the 2012 elections – twice what they had been expected to commit.
Just the spending linked to the Koch network is more than the $370 million that John McCain raised for his entire presidential campaign four years ago. And the $1 billion total surpasses the $750 million that Barack Obama, one of the most prolific fundraisers ever, collected for his 2008 campaign.
As the piece notes, both Obama and Mitt Romney are expected to raise hundreds of millions of dollars on their own, to fund their own campaigns. As usual, much of that money will come from special interests seeking favors from those they help to elect, and neither party is immune to money’s gravitational pull.
However, that money will at least be traceable back to its source, and the campaigns and the candidates can at least be held accountable by the voter for how they conduct themselves in the public sphere. Neither is true of the money that will pour into superPACS. It is being raised anonymously and will be spent anonymously, with the clear intention of buying not just influence but control.
And while Democrats will attempt to compete — Politico reports that the main pro-Obama superPAC hopes to raise $100 million — the clear financial advantage will belong to conservatives. That advantage will loom particularly large in Senate and House races, where a few spare million can make a very big difference in the outcome.
If your goal is victory for a party calling itself “Republican,” that advantage is a wonderful thing. However, if by “Republican” you mean a small-government party that does not intervene in the marketplace on behalf of immensely powerful special interests, I would suggest that you look more closely at this Trojan Horse being welcomed inside your city walls. People who make billion-dollar investments have a funny way of expecting to profit from said investments.
In time, if the system is not reformed, Democrats too will be forced to bend a knee to those who believe that big money justifies having a big voice, and only the naive would believe that that such a power once unleashed can easily be reined in. It will be government of the people, by the people and for the people only in the sense that, well, corporations are people.
– Jay Bookman
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562 comments Add your comment
Steve
May 30th, 2012
12:42 pm
What does “simplifying the tax code” really mean? More corporate loopholes? Lower taxes on the wealthy? If we could only agree on what this means, it would be helpful.
Common Sense
May 30th, 2012
12:42 pm
Yet another nice diversionary blog when one could be addressing the substantive failures of the Obama Administration.
When are you going to get back to real issues, and not focus on quotes from Dead Presidents who did nothing but violate the Constitution at will?
Thulsa Doom
May 30th, 2012
12:42 pm
Steve,
Romney’s Mass. jobs record? Ya think Mass. being overwhelmingly Dem including the statehouse that Romney had to work with had something to do with it? It was Taxachussetts long before Romney got there and has been long after he left.
I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not
May 30th, 2012
12:43 pm
I know, there are only about 7 mil jewish voters so a 20 % increase is not earth moving. 25 million Christians who didn’t vote last time is the key IMO
Erwin's cat
May 30th, 2012
12:45 pm
“Not according to Mitt Romney, who said they ARE people.”
as did the Supreme Court
getalife
May 30th, 2012
12:45 pm
Our founders would start another revolution but we are out of great leaders .
josef
May 30th, 2012
12:45 pm
Im liberal
There are 7 million enrolled tribal members, they’re not all of voting age…but there ARE a goodly number who aren’t enrolled…
Peadawg
May 30th, 2012
12:45 pm
“you’d be naive to believe that it’s not already happening equally in both parties”
No! Republicans do it more! Jay said so!
Son of the South
May 30th, 2012
12:46 pm
Oblama is a liar… or an idiot. He rants about spending increasing under this President because FOX News told him to. But here is the truth:
“An analysis published last week by MarketWatch, a financial news Web site owned by Dow Jones & Co., compared the yearly growth of federal spending under presidents going back to Ronald Reagan. Citing figures from the Office of Management and Budget and the Congressional Budget Office, MarketWatch concluded that “there has been no huge increase in spending under the current president, despite what you hear.”
Quite the contrary: Spending has increased at a yearly rate of only 1.4 percent during Obama’s tenure, even if you include some stimulus spending (in the 2009 fiscal year) that technically should be attributed to President George W. Bush. This is by far the smallest — I repeat, smallest — increase in spending of any recent president. (The Washington Post’s Fact Checker concluded the spending increase figure should have been 3.3 percent.)”
Michael
May 30th, 2012
12:46 pm
And Johnny Reb actually quotes Dick Morris!!! John your standards cant get much lower.
Oblama
May 30th, 2012
12:46 pm
Tongue in cheek – JV – tongue in cheek. Sure – there are a few honest and moral lawyers out there though few and far between. Unfortunately, the dishonest and immoral lawyers are drawn to political office like a giant magnet of cash.
Jay
May 30th, 2012
12:47 pm
So, Pdawg and others, is this part of the blog post not showing up on your browser? Are we having some technical issues?
“As the piece notes, both Obama and Mitt Romney are expected to raise hundreds of millions of dollars on their own, to fund their own campaigns. As usual, much of that money will come from special interests seeking favors from those they help to elect, and neither party is immune to money’s gravitational pull.”
Steve
May 30th, 2012
12:48 pm
Son of the South, stop with the facts! Facts aren’t allowed here!!!
And yes, Thulsa, Romney can’t run on his failed governorship in Massachusetts.
scrappy
May 30th, 2012
12:49 pm
So….Koch Bros and people like them are willing to spend billions of dollars in order to elect someone that won’t tax the rich. So that they can continue to get richer and continue to pass the buck onto the poor and middle class, so that they continue to gain more power & more control.
Yeah…really makes me want to vote GOP. (sarcaism)
getalife
May 30th, 2012
12:49 pm
This one is easy for the blame game.
Both parties will use unlimited corruption and the cons in the sc passed it.
John Birch
May 30th, 2012
12:50 pm
Lincoln made a horrendous decision and was full of it to begin with. By force of arms the stronger North inflicted it’s will on the people of the South. It’s the real law, the law of the universe, the natural order. So the lions eat the antelopes, the earth revolves around the sun, and the rich and powerful control the government. It’s always been that way. Let’s just get Anne Cox Chambers to donate $5B to Obama and even things out.
Mark in mid-town
May 30th, 2012
12:50 pm
The Republican candidate will have Talk Radio, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Koch brothers, Fox News and a few other Mudoch outlets. The Democratic candidate will have 90% of the entire msm, 90% of the entertainment industry, 90% of academic intuitions, 90% of unions and the vast majority of other institutional power behind them. When all is said and done, the cumulative monetary value of those lined up behind the Democratic candidate will still greatly outpace what’s lined up behind the Republican candidate, but it just won’t dwarf what the republicans have as was the case in 2008 when Obama spent more money on running negative attack ads than any candidate in U.S. history. The Democrats can’t win in an even playing field, and that’s why the word has been sent to their hacks in the media to keep complaining about any money that’s spent supporting the Republican candidate.
Peadawg
May 30th, 2012
12:50 pm
“neither party is immune to money’s gravitational pull”
So what’s the point of the rant about Republicans do it more nanny nanny boo boo before and after that sentence?
jms
May 30th, 2012
12:51 pm
How much have tax-payers provided to Obama for his trips to battleground states?
Steve
May 30th, 2012
12:51 pm
I’m glad the North inflicted the will of “slavery=bad” on the ridiculously back-assed South.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 30th, 2012
12:51 pm
Well, gripe all you want about outside money, but you got to admit we have the best guvmint money can buy. Let’s face it, if it takes a billion bucks to get elected President, then we always get the best President money can buy. Except for the Muslim Usurper, of course.
I don’t know about you, but on election day I’m going out to buy some loose-fitting pants. That way I’ll be all set up in January 2013 to drop them to my ankles and bend over. You know good and well that whoever gets elected will be sticking it to working folk because they’re the only ones that can be taxed or get their benefits cut to make any difference.
And so, my fellow stickees, have a good p.m.
Oblama
May 30th, 2012
12:51 pm
S. O. S. – It takes an idiot to know one…. and you have mirrors all over your house. Figures lie and liars figure. The garbage you came up with isn’t worth responding to. I prefer common sense.
John Birch
May 30th, 2012
12:53 pm
Scrappy – Don’t need mittens for that, we already have a Pres that won’t tax the rich. He’s been talking that trash ever since his first campaign but when it came down to it he caved like a wet balloon full of hot air on reversing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.
getalife
May 30th, 2012
12:53 pm
The banks in Europe can donate to get a bailout.
Talking Head
May 30th, 2012
12:53 pm
one thing is for sure, libs love to complain and will never stop
when Bush was POTUS, all we heard was bitching
since Obama has been POTUS (and we haven’t seen any Hope or Change), all we here is bitching
Oblama
May 30th, 2012
12:54 pm
gone today – here tomorrow.
jefflz
May 30th, 2012
12:55 pm
The SuoerPacs are a gift from the right wing Roberts Court which has taken an activist stand on turning this nation toward state-sponsored corporate fascism. Karl Rove, self-proclaimed admirer of Josef Goebbels, brought the Citizens United suit giving corporations the right to spend as much as they want on elections in a clandestine fashion. Roberts, Alito, Scalia (and his hand puppet Clarence Thomas) are working overtime to undermine the Constitution. Kennedy is indecisive and seems to just go along. The Supreme Court appointed GW Bush in 2000 which set this country into a tailspin which will take decades to recover from, if ever. A Romney presidency will mean an even more extreme right wing Supreme Court. That could spell the end of democracy as we know it in America.
F. Sinkwich
May 30th, 2012
12:55 pm
Is there any problem that can’t be solved by federal government intervention?
Not in lib-world:
“Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) has called on the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to review whether metal grill brushes are safe for consumer use, after reports that some metal bristles broke off the brush and were swallowed, sending two men to the hospital.”
Erwin's cat
May 30th, 2012
12:56 pm
“neither party is immune to money’s gravitational pull”
and
“…Democrats too will be forced to bend a knee to those who believe that big money…”
you list only R examples and insinuate the left hasn’t caved yet…bunk
Talking Head
May 30th, 2012
12:57 pm
Chuck Schumer ruined Four Loko
Brosephus™
May 30th, 2012
12:58 pm
“People who make billion-dollar investments have a funny way of expecting to profit from said investments.”
Truer words never spoken about unions.
A guy who owns a Vegas hotel? Not so much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2SajbMurA8
JohnnyReb
May 30th, 2012
12:58 pm
Michael
May 30th, 2012
12:46 pm
And Johnny Reb actually quotes Dick Morris!!! John your standards cant get much lower.
_____________
Yea, I feel that way about all the Obama supporters.
You can say what you will about Morris, but he was correct on Obama pushing the Law of the Seas Treaty. You will hear more about this as the lame duck session draws nearer. My guess is, it will be fillibustered, or hopefully it will. If you choose to read about it, the treaty would give away some of our sovereignty to the UN. That of course is right in line with how Obama thinks.
josef
May 30th, 2012
12:58 pm
Okay Obama bashers which should he offer…”
przeprosiny w Polsce
or
przeprosiny dla polaków
or maybe
przeprosiny w imieniu polaków
getalife
May 30th, 2012
12:59 pm
cons desperately trying to change the subject because they know this issue is dead wrong and not American.
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2012
12:59 pm
The Democratic candidate will have 90% of the entire msm
This one cracks me up every time I hear some conservative repeat it.
curious
May 30th, 2012
1:01 pm
Steve, An earlier remark by you.
“I just walked across the street to see FIVE new homes going up in the subdivision that sat vacant for many years. I hate to say it, but things are improving”
When someone hates to say things are improving, He/She has a selfish agenda.
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2012
1:01 pm
Democrats too will be forced to bend a knee to those who believe that big money justifies having a big voice
I gotta say, Jay–”will be”?
and, just a single knee? not both?
Thulsa Doom
May 30th, 2012
1:01 pm
Steve and son of the south,
That market watch article has been so thoroughly debunked I can’t believe you guys foolishly bring it up. That lie didn’t just get dispelled but got annihilated. See Wingfield’s blog from a few days ago on this lie and educate yourselves. Or just read this. Lies and the libs that tell em. It never do get old.
http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/2012/05/24/obama-is-most-frugal-least-spending-of-presidents-hardly-wsj-rex-nuttings-nutty-dishonest-hilarious-claim-is-debunked-about-our-spending-binge-president/
Thulsa Doom
May 30th, 2012
1:01 pm
Steve and son of the south,
That market watch article has been so thoroughly debunked I can’t believe you guys foolishly bring it up. That lie didn’t just get dispelled but got annihilated. See Wingfield’s blog from a few days ago on this lie and educate yourselves. Or just read this. Lies and the libs that tell em. It never do get old.
http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/2012/05/24/obama-is-most-frugal-least-spending-of-presidents-hardly-wsj-rex-nuttings-nutty-dishonest-hilarious-claim-is-debunked-about-our-spending-binge-president/
td
May 30th, 2012
1:01 pm
“Corporations aren’t people. ” Really? What is a corporation? Is it not a group of like minded people trying to buy and sell a product or service for profit? Why should it be illegal for these people to not be able to support their own self interest? Is this not the same thing unions do? How about the AARP or even on a local level a homeowners association?
Jay
May 30th, 2012
1:03 pm
I don’t get what is so hard to understand. Both parties take special-interest money and are corrupted by it. This particular form of financing, SuperPACs, allows anonymous corporate giving and creates a huge advantage for Republicans. A lot more money to Republicans means a lot more special-interest influence among Republicans.
Simple stuff, really.
josef
May 30th, 2012
1:04 pm
jefflz
“…Karl Rove, self-proclaimed admirer of Josef Goebbels, ”
Citation/link please…not being snarky, being serious…
Mr Right
May 30th, 2012
1:07 pm
In time, if the system is not reformed, Democrats too will be forced to bend a knee to those who believe that big money justifies having a big voice, and only the naive would believe that that such a power once unleashed can easily be reined in
Oh the wonderful Dems would never do that ! DUH Jay where are you under a rock? It cuts both ways.
Peadawg
May 30th, 2012
1:07 pm
Jay
May 30th, 2012
1:03 pm
There you go again lol. Both parties do it but Republicans do it more nanny nanny boo boo.
I thought were better than that. Guess not….
ken
May 30th, 2012
1:07 pm
Jay, just attend a black church. They will tell you how to vote.
getalife
May 30th, 2012
1:07 pm
I am not comfortable having a government with legal unlimited bribes but the majority is okay with it so here we are.
No use whining about it until the majority is ready to change it.
Probably the younger generation will have enough after all the scandals it will produce.
Jay
May 30th, 2012
1:09 pm
So Peadawg, what part of Republicans having a 10-1 advantage in SuperPAC funding are you having a hard time comprehending? You don’t believe that taking 10 times the cash doesn’t make you at least somewhat more compromised than the other guy?
You’re smarter than you’re pretending to be here.
jefflz
May 30th, 2012
1:09 pm
Anyone who thinks corporations are people is “undereducated”. Corporations are about returns on investment for shareholders. Nothing wrong with that in principle. However, when unlimited funds can be spent by corporations in an anonymous fashion to distort the electoral process in their favor against the best interests f the country, then we have a problem. Corporations aren’t people they are money making machines that couldn’t give a hoot about the fate of the man on the street. If you think this is just fine then you are against everything this country stands for.
Generation$crewed
May 30th, 2012
1:11 pm
Why do corporations pay taxes, if they are not allowed to donate and have an influence of how those taxes are spent?
Don’t want them to donate, then don’t tax the corporations just the individuals who are employed by corporations.
mm
May 30th, 2012
1:11 pm
“after all the unions send in their funding”
“The president last week became the first billion dollar politician”
“this flood of Fed spending has increased at a record rate”
“Democrats and Obummer has been supported by George Soros and all his front companies”
“like NPR, MSNBC, ABC, CBS before him, likes to mention how much money Republican candidates bring in”
“because the president has been attacking the job producers for three and a half years”
“the Obozo-fawning MSM which will do anything and everything including lying, exaggeration, and deflection to keep their messiah in office.”
“If you can’t run on your success and you policies are all failures, you might as well attack the successful producers in society with your monkey-boys in your wholly-owned Obama media.”
“Speaking of owning the presidency, Michael Moore, Georgie Soros, Warren Buffett, come to mind along with the heads of S.E.I.U., U.A.W., A.F. of L, Acorn, Teachers, Union, Government Employees, Union, GE, General Motors, Chrysler, Boeing, Hollywood”
“Jay, you work for a corporation that’s spent untold millions trying blatantly to elect Democrats”
“Obama attacks the “middle class” everyday with his high gasoline prices, his high food prices, his high cost of health care, his high borrowing and his high rate of unemployment”
“I posted Dick Morris’ warning of Obama’s plan to get the Law of the Sea Treaty ratified several weeks back”
“they think increasing the size of government, taking away our freedoms is “moving forward”.”
“he didn’t have his teleprompter to tell him what to say.”
All of this rightwing ignorance came from page 1 of this blog. Not a single one of these quotes is based in reality.
The cons cannot seem to come up with an original thought from their empty heads.
It’s like debating a chimp. He may gesture and make goofy faces, but he still cannot communicate.
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2012
1:12 pm
I am not comfortable having a government with legal unlimited bribes but the majority is okay with it so here we are.
Perhaps splitting hairs here, but a majority did not elect these a-hole Supreme Court Justices that made this possible.
(a majority of voters did, however, seat a majority of a-holes to Congress in 2010, ensuring that even modest legislation requiring more transparency of these superPACs would never be passed. maybe that’s a distinction without a difference, but I felt it needed to be made.)
mm
May 30th, 2012
1:13 pm
“Don’t want them to donate, then don’t tax the corporations just the individuals who are employed by corporations.”
Most ignorant post so far.
Peadawg
May 30th, 2012
1:13 pm
Jay, you’ve said it yourself that “both parties take special-interest money and are corrupted by it.” Who does it more doesn’t matter to me. The point that matters to me is exactly what you said, ” BOTH parties take special-interest money and are corrupted by it.”
Peadawg
May 30th, 2012
1:14 pm
But with you being a Democrat, I understand why you feel the need to point out that one side does it more nanny nanny boo boo.
I just think it’s funny.
getalife
May 30th, 2012
1:18 pm
sfd,
The ones protesting this extreme corruption are the OWS movement.
They are a small minority and doubt our cons will stop bowing down and stop bending over to stand up to this extreme corruption.
This one will have to play out before there will be change.
Generation$crewed
May 30th, 2012
1:19 pm
Jay
May 30th, 2012
1:03 pm
Why does it give Republicans an advantage? Both parties bow to corporations already.
Seems you are projectiong your opinion as fact!
Brosephus™
May 30th, 2012
1:20 pm
The Democratic candidate will have 90% of the entire msm
Complete Bunk!!! As many Fox lovers always claims their ratings are better than CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC and others, I doubt very seriously that Fox only makes up 10% of the mainstream media. Contrary to popular conservative rhetoric, being #1 in ratings makes one a huge part of the mainstream media.
—————————–
Jay @ 1:09
Haven’t you figured it out that a 10-1 ratio is equal in la-la land???
Common Sense isn't very Common
May 30th, 2012
1:20 pm
re: corporate donations
Who decides (within the corporation) what and to who do the donations go?
Is it put to a stockholders vote? A vote from the BOD? or is a CEO decision?
Generation$crewed
May 30th, 2012
1:22 pm
mm
May 30th, 2012
1:13 pm
Why?
Why should corporations pay taxces, but not have influence over how that tax money is used? They don’t get a vote!
BeeJay
May 30th, 2012
1:23 pm
Let me make it clear: Obama does NOT believe in government of the people or by the people, and not even for the people. Obama believes in himself. Obama believes in the body of the politicians. Obama believes in taking all decisions, rights, and reason away from citizens. He should NEVER have been elected, should never have even run for the office, and is so in over his head and out of his element that the nation has suffered hugely. If we were Cuba, or Marxist Germany, or Iran, he might have had a place. But for the United States? No.
josef
May 30th, 2012
1:26 pm
ken
Just for the record, I know of at least ONE black church not to visit if you think they’re promoting Obama…whoo-whee, I just wish you could’ve been a fly on the wall for one of my set-tos the other day with a black minister…made that guy up in NC seem like a liberal…
Union
May 30th, 2012
1:27 pm
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php
with all the money the unions donate to the dems.. someone needs to write a big check..
getalife
May 30th, 2012
1:27 pm
Our President fought against this corrupt sc ruling and our chamber of commerce (coc) labeled him anti business.
corrupt congress is for this decision..
Steve
May 30th, 2012
1:28 pm
Obama is “so in over his head”? Really? Seeing that he’s pulled us out of recession, pulled us out of two failed wars, lowered unemployment, the housing market is turning around, General Motors is now thriving, stock market has climbed back, Osama is gone, Libyans are free of Ghadaffi, taxes are low, inflation is low, and we are doing better than Europe right now…
Yeah, such a failure!
Thulsa Doom
May 30th, 2012
1:29 pm
Corporations represent people. People work for them and people own them. If labor unions represent unionized employees via political donations then why shouldn’t corporations be allowed to represent their employees and owners interests by being able to contribute to candidates. Their donations are after all on behalf of people- the very people who work for and own the company.
josef
May 30th, 2012
1:30 pm
STEVE
@ 1:28
I would agree with that except you don’t seem to like us banjo pluckers very much…
Adam
May 30th, 2012
1:31 pm
Ahem: Obama hides his past for reasons unknown to me.
In the bubble, any aprt of Obama’s past that is not presented in exhausting detail is classified as “hiding” it.
He wrote memoirs. Maybe you should READ that.
Adam
May 30th, 2012
1:31 pm
Steve: I hate to say it, but things are improving.
Well, I personally never hate to say such a thing.
Adam
May 30th, 2012
1:31 pm
Oblama: Why does Oblama get ANY credit at all for killing Osama?
Well let’s try it this way: If Osama had been killed in 2007, after an order given by Bush in the same exact way as it was under Obama, would Bush have gotten credit?
MrLiberty
May 30th, 2012
1:31 pm
The great tragedy is that the war criminal Lincoln gets credit for saying something he NEVER believed in to begin with. Lincoln was a promoter of the “American System,” which was little more than an extension of the fascist merchantilist system that served to boost the wealth of connected business owners in Britain in the 1700s (and beyond). Lincoln’s civil war-provoking tariffs were all a special handout to his northern big business supporters as was the transcontinental railroad (though he made plenty of money on this one too). This process of buying favors from politicians is as old as America itself. There is a certain irony in our fighting so hard to “defeat fascism” in Italy and German while we as a nation embraced it as an economic policy at home.
Government is in bed with big business. The democrats are equally as bad as the republicans though their list of favored recipients likely meets with more approval from liberal folks like you. Every unconstitutional power the government now claims the right to wield, is used to help out a favored friend in big business. Regulations that destroy or limit competition, taxes and fees that impact smaller competitors, etc. and worst of all, the criminal Federal Reserve, which sets the price of money, hands out free cash to friends around the world, and helps to manipulate markets for all types of commodities, stocks, etc. all serve one friend or another.
Please don’t even suggest that democrats might be forced to behave as badly as republicans in this. They are both the scum of the earth and have been for at least 100 years.
Only Ron Paul stands above all of this as a shining example. At every turn he speaks out against Corporatism, works to abolish the Federal Reserve, and votes against unconstitutional regulations and spending (regardless of who might benefit).
There are no lobbyists that ever visit his congressional offices. They know they are not welcome, unless they are promoting the cause of liberty and freedom.
These new PACs are just an extension of everything that is wrong with our government. Yes, super PACs have raised millions for Ron Paul during this campaign season and likely will continue to raise money. His 20+ year voting record makes it very clear to all who give however that they are donating for the restoration of freedom and liberty, not buying themselves a privileged place in a future administration. I certainly know that is why I give to his campaign.
Adam
May 30th, 2012
1:32 pm
Thulsa: They are merely entities made up OF people, run BY people and FOR people.
Well I suppose that depends on WHICH people you think it’s FOR, as far as quite a few corporations go. I have a hint for you: It ain’t the minimum wage workers that it’s FOR.
Also this: The gaffe president strikes again. Geez
Sorry, but Bush isn’t President anymore
(couldn’t resist)
ALSO:
That market watch article has been so thoroughly debunked I can’t believe you guys foolishly bring it up
It hasn’t been “thoroughly debunked.” You just THINK that. Your articles are full of misinformation when it comes right down to it. Even Politifact agrees that the article was mostly true. And the counter arguments are essentially “Oh yeah? Well if I manipulate the numbers JUST SO it shows that Obama is MOST SPENDINGEST.” One article even had to do FIVE DIFFERENT calculations IN THE SAME ARTICLE to FINALLY make Obama look worse than a Republican President.
You guys are REACHING.
Adam
May 30th, 2012
1:32 pm
Common Sense: when one could be addressing the substantive failures of the Obama Administration.
1) Blogspot is ready when you are
2) You’re being divisive
Adam
May 30th, 2012
1:33 pm
Peadawg: “you’d be naive to believe that it’s not already happening equally in both parties”
No! Republicans do it more! Jay said so!
And I am sure there is actual evidence that shows that they do it “equally” in both parties. Who wants to be the first to offer up the evidence that it’s EQUAL (I will accept statistically, not exact)?
*crickets*
“neither party is immune to money’s gravitational pull”
So what’s the point of the rant about Republicans do it more nanny nanny boo boo before and after that sentence?
Assuming we give you the “nanny nanny boo boo” argument (which I don’t), I would submit that Jay did not use the term “equally.”
josef
May 30th, 2012
1:33 pm
ADAM
@ 1:31
Yep. Me, too.
(You’re getting the knack of it!
)
Adam
May 30th, 2012
1:33 pm
Talking Head: since Obama has been POTUS (and we haven’t seen any Hope or Change)
If nothing has changed at all since Bush, why are you so upset?
Mary Elizabeth
May 30th, 2012
1:33 pm
Election campaign laws MUST be changed to maintain our democratic republic. The power behind monied special interests do effect both parties. However, read this from Wikipedia:
“ALEC currently has more than 2,000 legislative members representing all 50 states, amounting to nearly one-third of all sitting legislators, as well as more than 85 members of Congress and 14 sitting or former governors who are considered “alumni”. The vast majority of ALEC’s legislative members belong to the Republican Party. ALEC also claims approximately 300 corporate, foundation, and other private-sector members.”
And the following exerpt from this link:
http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/78448237?access_key=key-a6hdjq8v38luteku97w
“Led by some of the largest corporations in America, ALEC has quietly brought together legislators and corporate lobbyists to draft legislation behind closed doors. Much of this legislation is designed to benefit directly the bottom lines of corporations that are members of ALEC—corporations like Coca-Cola, Koch Industries, United States Smokeless Tobacco Company and Comcast. ALEC exists specifically so that lobbyists and corporations can influence state legislative policies away from public view. At its meetings, held in some of the most exclusive resorts and hotels to ensure secrecy, corporate lobbyists share their wish lists of legislative proposals to be introduced at state capitols around the country. Legislators take this cookie-cutter legislation, make some changes to it, then introduce it in their own states, often without understanding the full impact of what they are proposing. With help from corporate political contributions, lobbyists then help move the legislation forward. We all like to think that our state laws are created when a constituent raises an issue with a legislator, who then drafts legislation to fix that problem. Increasingly however, that’s not the case and corporate lobbyists, not our legislators, are drafting Minnesota’s laws. In Minnesota, at least 19 legislators are members of ALEC’s legislative task forces. In these task forces, corporate lobbyists propose draft legislation and join in voting with legislators to choose which drafts will become ALEC ‘model legislation,’ to be cut and pasted into bills by legislators across the country. Corporations pay up to $25,000 each year to join these task forces, where ALEC boasts that they have ‘a voice and a vote.’ ALEC paints itself as a think tank, but it is really a front group for corporate lobbyists. In fact, ALEC receives 98% of its funding from corporations and foundations. (The other two percent comes from membership dues paid by legislators and miscellaneous income.) For corporations, this is a good investment; for citizens, it’s more evidence of the erosion of our democracy.”
=================================================
And, here is the bottom line question. Even with both parties partaking of big monied interests in order to be elected in November, which party, once elected, will primarily support the welfare of the 1%, and which party will support, primarily, the welfare of the 99%? You know the answer. Now, how will you vote in November?
John Birch
May 30th, 2012
1:33 pm
The real problem with our form of democracy is that all those people who don’t pay any taxes are allowed to vote. Just like the recent Eurotrash elections, they will continue to vote themselves a bigger and bigger free lunch until they bring down the republic entirely.
Adam
May 30th, 2012
1:34 pm
why shouldn’t corporations be allowed to represent their employees and owners interests by being able to contribute to candidates.
This is not the problem. The problem is LIMITLESS ANONYMOUS donations.
Don't Forget
May 30th, 2012
1:35 pm
There’s no denying that special interests exert power on both parties. What is disturbing about the citizen’s united decision is what it does to the BALANCE of power. The framers designed the government to preserve a balance of power with “checks and balance’s” but if one party or segment of society is able to gain an overwhelming degree of power then representative government will become a complete illusion. No matter which party someone favors, the prospect of single party control in the long term should be alarming.
Brosephus™
May 30th, 2012
1:35 pm
with all the money the unions donate to the dems.. someone needs to write a big check..
Wow..
A whopping 23 year time span to accumulate campaign totals. Does not show this years race at all huh???
http://www.fec.gov/disclosurep/pnational.do
Comparing how contributions have accumulated thus far during THIS election cycle….
Candidates
(millions of dollars)
All Candidates 459.5
Republicans 241.0
Democrats 217.0
Obama (D) 217.0
Romney (R) 97.6
Paul (R) 38.7
Gingrich (R) 23.1
Santorum (R) 21.8
Perry (R) 19.7
Cain (R) 16.3
Bachmann (R) 10.3
Huntsman (R) 7.8
Pawlenty (R) 5.2
Johnson (L) 0.8
Roemer (O) 0.7
McCotter (R) 0.5
Republicans overall have collected more money during this election cycle than Democrats. I guess that labor money isn’t as good as it used to be. That said, don’t let the standard, fill-in-th-blank meme for the “whatever the current threat” group that’s targeted stop you from your rhetoric recital. I get a kick out of the incessant hum of the mindless quotation of stuff that’s less factual than the moon is made of green cheese.
EJ Moosa
May 30th, 2012
1:36 pm
When you have a Constitution that is protected by the courts, it would not matter how much money ANY pac had.
But since there are those on both sides that only solicit enforcement of the Constitution and protection of individual rights, we are threatened by Pacs.
The answer is simple. Demand that the Constitution be followed.
Not So Casual Observer
May 30th, 2012
1:36 pm
“In time, if the system is not reformed, Democrats too will be forced to bend a knee to those who believe that big money justifies having a big voice, and only the naive would believe that that such a power once unleashed can easily be reined in. It will be government of the people, by the people and for the people only in the sense that, well, corporations are people.”
Uh, Jay, where were you when the news leaked of the Obama supporters (Solyndra, Pelosi’s brother-in-law, etc.) who received loans that ended in default and no legal action was taken against the borrowers? Democrats have bent at the knee, and in other positions, for the money since Truman left office – Truman being the only honest Democrat in my life time.
Don't Forget
May 30th, 2012
1:37 pm
Adam
May 30th, 2012
1:34 pm
why shouldn’t corporations be allowed to represent their employees and owners interests by being able to contribute to candidates.
Puleeeeze, what in God’s green earth is preventing those employee’s and owner’s from representing their interests themselves. That’s nothing but a smokescreen.
Don't Forget
May 30th, 2012
1:38 pm
oops, sorry Adam, didn’t mean to attribute that quote to you.
bob
May 30th, 2012
1:39 pm
And corporations like Bain Capital have given Obama more money than repubs. But other that Bain Capital, Obama only gets $10 donations from little old ladies, no corp or union donations.
barking frog
May 30th, 2012
1:40 pm
No matter how much money
is spent you can still vote
for anyone on the ballot.
The ball is on your court.
Not So Casual Observer
May 30th, 2012
1:40 pm
Brosephus™ @ 1:35pm
Failed to factor in the contested Republican primary did you not? Since the Dems have not been in full race mode there has been less money contributed to the party to this point.
That Black Guy
May 30th, 2012
1:40 pm
Jay
May 30th, 2012
1:09 pm
So Peadawg, what part of Republicans having a 10-1 advantage in SuperPAC funding are you having a hard time comprehending? You don’t believe that taking 10 times the cash doesn’t make you at least somewhat more compromised than the other guy?
____________________________________________________________________________
Jay, if I sell 1lb of dope and Bill sells 10lbs, aren’t we both still dealers, and worthy of scorn?
Also, if the conversation is limited to SuperPAC’s then aren’t we missing part of the story. Aren’t we missing the “donations” in terms of positive/unreported stories by left leaning media sources, community outreach by groups like ACORN (or whatever they are calling themselves), negative propaganda by groups like Moveon or Think Progress, ads and “get out the vote” activities by union groups (not to mention direct donations by all these groups).
Thulsa Doom
May 30th, 2012
1:41 pm
“I have a hint for you: It ain’t the minimum wage workers that it’s FOR.”
Can you prove that Adam or is that just your ahem OPINION.
“Even Politifact agrees that the article was mostly true.”
Actually WIngfield’s blog covered where and why Politifact was also wrong. And for the record Politifact is not the end all be all of what is true and not true. They are after all owned by a very liberal paper. Or perhaps you just didn’t know that.
Sorry Adam but if you can’t understand that starting with a baseline that just jumped roughly 20% from the year before and then counting from there is statistically dishonest then I just can’t help you. You either are dishonest or you simply lack the mathematical ability to understand just how misleading and dishonest Nutter’s article is. Which is it?
And were you even open minded enough to even read the various articles that debunked how foolish Nutter’s claims were? Or was your mind made up already?- in other words was it already closed. Something tells me it was.
Generation$crewed
May 30th, 2012
1:42 pm
Adam
May 30th, 2012
1:33 pm
For me things have not changed enough. What has changed I have found myself to be in disagreement more than agreement.
Oh yeah and I didn’t like the 8yr Bush run. So when a guy runs as hope and change then doesn’t change much from the 8yrs I just didn’t like I feel lied to, and decieved.
Thus making me willing to give the other guy a chance. I figure 12 yrs has been enough, I don’t need 16
Joseph
May 30th, 2012
1:43 pm
My my my how misguided you are Jay. If you don’t like SuperPAC’s talk to the Supreme Court. They are the one’s who are allowing free people to back whatever candidate they chose. Is that not what a free country is all about? The thing is you fail to mention the dem PACS. The Hollywood freaks, George Soros, and SEIU to name a few. And it just so happens the SEIU uses tax payer money to fund much of the garbage they spew on behalf of far left candidates. You can whine all the way to November Jaybird but it simply futile to try and change the way things work….
josef
May 30th, 2012
1:43 pm
Not so casual…
” Truman being the only honest Democrat in my life time”
Not President in my lifetime, but I’m going to go you one further…the only honest one of either party to hold that office (except maybe G. Ford) in at least the 20th Century and pretty much the 19th as well…
Adam
May 30th, 2012
1:45 pm
TBG: Jay, if I sell 1lb of dope and Bill sells 10lbs, aren’t we both still dealers, and worthy of scorn?
Put TBG down as against ANY campaign contributions whatsoever in a zero tolerance policy.
Joseph
May 30th, 2012
1:45 pm
By the way. Shouldn’t today’s top news story be about how Obama insulted the Poles with his alarming lack of intelligence?
Adam
May 30th, 2012
1:46 pm
Thulsa: Can you prove that Adam or is that just your ahem OPINION.
I challenge you to show me a private for profit company that hires a majority of minimum wage workers with the goal of helping minimum wage workers. Heck, bonus points if you can show more than one. Then I want you to tell me what percentage of all corporations in the US that is.
willie lynch
May 30th, 2012
1:47 pm
td
May 30th, 2012
1:01 pm
Unions are made up of dues paying members as is the AARP. A corporation can decide among it’s board of maybe 10 or 12 people to funnel millions into a particular cause slated to be important by this body only. They don’t have to answer to, consider or vote among the employees of the company before they make their determination as to who they will back.
td
May 30th, 2012
1:47 pm
Jay
May 30th, 2012
1:09 pm
So Peadawg, what part of Republicans having a 10-1 advantage in SuperPAC funding are you having a hard time comprehending? You don’t believe that taking 10 times the cash doesn’t make you at least somewhat more compromised than the other guy?
And would it also not be fair to consider union money in those calculations Jay? What is the advantage the democrats have had in this category throughout the years? How much Union money will be spent on Obama this election cycle? How much money is their “voluntary” canvasing activities worth?
Joe Hussein Mama
May 30th, 2012
1:48 pm
Doom — “Corporations represent people.”
No, they don’t.
“People work for them and people own them.”
Irrelevant. The guys that did my roof worked for me, but I don’t represent them and they don’t own me.
“If labor unions represent unionized employees via political donations then why shouldn’t corporations be allowed to represent their employees and owners interests by being able to contribute to candidates.”
Because union employees have the right to *vote on* actions taken by the union. Corporate employees enjoy no such right.
“Their donations are after all on behalf of people- the very people who work for and own the company.”
I know you have a better understanding of labor unions than this, Doom.
Joseph
May 30th, 2012
1:48 pm
Looks like its shaping up to be another bad week for Obama….. But Jay wants talk about Super Pacs… LOL…
mm
May 30th, 2012
1:48 pm
“Why should corporations pay taxces, but not have influence over how that tax money is used? They don’t get a vote!”
The problem is anonymous, unlimited money.
People, unions, corporations, etc. should have a limit on their contributions and should be available for full disclosure.
I’m sick of seeing attack ads 6 months out of every year.