‘… debt-ceiling standoff is an act of economic sabotage’

With congressional Republicans promising to create yet another standoff on the debt ceiling, Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers, professors at the highly regarded Wharton School of Business, write in Bloomberg about the economic consequences of the first crisis last summer.

They note, for example:

“Growth in nonfarm payrolls decelerated to an average 88,000 a month during the three months of the debt-ceiling impasse, compared with an average of 176,000 in the first five months of 2011. Payroll growth subsequently recovered and has averaged 187,000 jobs a month since. Despite the rebound in job growth, employment is likely still below where it would otherwise have been.”

And consumer confidence — critical in this recovery — took an even greater and more spectacular tumble, as these numbers from Gallup demonstrate:

confidence

They conclude:

“All told, the data tell us that a debt-ceiling standoff is an act of economic sabotage. The only way to avoid this conclusion is to argue that consumers and employers were reacting to some other economic factors. But the debt ceiling was the dominant economic story at the time. No other news fits the data as well. Although the European debt crisis was a rising concern throughout 2011, the real trouble in Europe arose in the period when consumer confidence and employment were recovering.

The next debt-ceiling battle could be worse, because the stakes are even higher. In addition to the threat of default, the U.S. is facing the so-called fiscal cliff: a raft of spending cuts and tax increases that will happen at the end of this year unless Congress acts to postpone them. Another stalemate would almost certainly plunge the economy into a deep recession.”

It’s also important to note that the standoff created an historic downgrade of the USA’s credit worthiness. And for what? Congressional Republicans got a budget-cutting agreement out of the standoff, but it’s a deal that they began to repudiate almost immediately after it was announced and that they are now actively seeking to undermine.

Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t trust the wisdom or patriotism of people who willing to risk the destruction of the economy to make a political point.

– Jay Bookman

783 comments Add your comment

Joseph

May 29th, 2012
12:57 pm

I was expecting to read an article with you not bashing Republicans. Off course I knew that wouldn’t happen…. Your pathetic Bookman…

Jay

May 29th, 2012
1:02 pm

Joseph, it’s my opinion that the modern Republican Party, as currently constituted, poses a real threat to my country, to my children’s future prosperity and to basic rules of logic and reason.

And like it or not, I will continue to point out evidence for why those statements are true.

Paul

May 29th, 2012
1:05 pm

“t I don’t trust the wisdom or patriotism of people who willing to risk the destruction of the economy to make a political point,”

Particularly when Boehner’s doing it to appeasing the extremist elements in their own party.

It’s pretty sad. Boehner’s got himself boxed in with his own Party’s ideologues, he can’t get them to do what he wants, they won’t compromise, so he turns away from Republicans and tries to get Democrats to do what he wants.

Steve

May 29th, 2012
1:06 pm

Joseph – it’s unAmerican to support a party (GOP) that puts their best interests (0.1% of the population) over the rest of us. The debt ceiling debacle is pure politics, bad for the country, and the only people who gain are the likes of the Koch Bros.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

May 29th, 2012
1:06 pm

Seems to me that the ring of truth this article has is upsetting to Joseph’s sense of reality….pity, that.

Mick

May 29th, 2012
1:06 pm

Funny how the republicans never even balked during the bush years when they raised the debt ceiling with nary a whimper…

Steve

May 29th, 2012
1:07 pm

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

May 29th, 2012
1:08 pm

Jay @ 1:02

Very well said.

SwamiDave

May 29th, 2012
1:08 pm

Based on this, doggedly refusing to address our deficits by curtailing growth of entitlements and returning the federal government its constitutionally-limited roles would be unwise and against the interests of the American taxpayer.

-SD

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

May 29th, 2012
1:09 pm

Mick – 1:06 – not so much “funny – ha-ha” and funny, like the way milk smells when it’s been left out in the sun.

Jeff

May 29th, 2012
1:09 pm

1st – Joseph, is that the ebst you can do, name calling?

2nd – So what is incorrect in this piece? The Fact that the CONservatives are doing the sabotaging seems like a known provable item here. They do not want the ecomony to recover while Obama is in office because he will get the credit. Read or listen to people like Rush and Sean and Neal or just a few minutes of Faux News should clear this up for you.

3rd – The CONservatives are already going back on what they promised. They said they would cut the defense budget (and it should be cut, and yes I am a vet) and now they are not so “gung ho” on cutting anything, except help for the middle class or the poor. All these are facts, and easily proven by simply looking at or listening to the CONservatives.

USMC

May 29th, 2012
1:09 pm

“Joseph, it’s my opinion that the modern Republican Party, as currently constituted, poses a real threat to my country, to my children’s future prosperity and to basic rules of logic and reason.”–JAY

More of Jay Bookman’s EXTREMIST views… :-)

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

May 29th, 2012
1:09 pm

sorry – AND should have been AS

getalife

May 29th, 2012
1:10 pm

corporate media took a dive for the gop.

They will not call out the birthers or this economic terrorism.

USinUK - pro-gay-marriage thug and former Girl Scout

May 29th, 2012
1:10 pm

“More of Jay Bookman’s REALIST views”

there ya go … typo all fixed for ya …

no need to thank, it’s all part of the service

JF McNamara

May 29th, 2012
1:11 pm

It’s not to make a political point this time. It’s to win an election. Crash the economy and blame Obama. They are trying to recreate the climate that they feel got the Republicans voted out in 2008 only to a lesser extent.

southdem

May 29th, 2012
1:11 pm

“Joseph, it’s my opinion that the modern Republican Party, as currently constituted, poses a real threat to my country, to my children’s future prosperity and to basic rules of logic and reason.

And like it or not, I will continue to point out evidence for why those statements are true.”

You’re absolutely right, Jay, and we need to keep pointing it out. Keep up the good work!

Peadawg

May 29th, 2012
1:11 pm

“the standoff created an historic downgrade of the USA’s credit worthiness.”

LOL! No, our out-of-control debt caused the downgrade, Jay. So what’s your solution to the debt problem? Just keep asking for a good ‘ol credit limit increase?

:roll:

getalife

May 29th, 2012
1:12 pm

“the modern Republican Party, as currently constituted, poses a real threat to my country, to my children’s future prosperity and to basic rules of logic and reason”

Amen.

Joseph

May 29th, 2012
1:13 pm

So Jay keep sepnding money as if its grown on tree’s is a way to protect your childrens future? Libs simply lack logic….

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
1:13 pm

You don’t have to cast your lot in with the Democrats, but it’s high time to leave the GOP, folks.

Take a look at the Libertarians, the TEA Party, the Natural Law Party, even the Constitutionalists if you have to. But bail out on the GOP like I did. They no longer have the country’s interests in mind.

edman

May 29th, 2012
1:14 pm

<>
No, it’s not just you, Jay. It is astounding that rank and file GOP non 1-percenters do not see this, and more to the point, they do not understand the often graphically displayed trend in contributions to the national debt, and hence the ceiling, by Republican versus Democratic administrations. I suppose I shouldn’t find it that astounding, since those same folks rarely comment on your pieces with anything approaching a grammatically correct sentence — another manifestation of the same problem.

Gordon

May 29th, 2012
1:14 pm

Jay @1:02,

Amazing that you don’t consider out-of-control government spending as a real threat to our country and to your children’s future. It’s almost always that the government doesn’t have enough revenue, not that it simply cannot control itself and has done a poor job with the massive resources it has been provided. Those are the threats to your children’s future, and mine as well. If no one ever says “enough”, then what will stop this runaway train?

The idea now isn’t to avoid an economic recession, it is to avoid an economic meltdown caused by a default. There is no easy way out of this.

Jefferson

May 29th, 2012
1:14 pm

Until they will work towards the middle, the GOP is not the answer and they hurt the country.

Aquagirl

May 29th, 2012
1:15 pm

USMC’s gonna hit the roof when Jay writes about the REAL threat to America’s future: tragic overuse of smiley emoticons.

Peadawg

May 29th, 2012
1:15 pm

“it’s my opinion that the modern Republican Party, as currently constituted, poses a real threat to my country, to my children’s future prosperity and to basic rules of logic and reason.”

But not $16 Trillion in debt w/ a credit limit increase coming….

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
1:15 pm

Joseph — “So Jay keep sepnding money as if its grown on tree’s is a way to protect your childrens future?”

Romney’s budget proposals are no different. He’s also projecting red ink as far as the eye can see.

“Libs simply lack logic….”

So do cons, assuming your amusing belief that the GOP will stop all deficit spending is a commonly-held opinion among Republicans.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
1:17 pm

Gordon — “Amazing that you don’t consider out-of-control government spending as a real threat to our country and to your children’s future.”

Neither does the GOP, as they have yet to propose an alternative that is deficit-neutral or cash-flow positive.

getalife

May 29th, 2012
1:17 pm

The gop have been fighting against our recovery for this election for over three years and admitted it.

Sadly, millions of American voters will reward that party with their votes for these unAmerican actions.

Jefferson

May 29th, 2012
1:17 pm

The bigger the paycheck, the bigger the credit line…

Jay

May 29th, 2012
1:18 pm

Gordon, how many times have I written here that I support a deficit-reduction approach containing a combination of spending cuts and tax increases?

You know and I know that it’s the only approach that is feasible, both in terms of politics and basic arithmetic. And of the two parties, there is only one party that is unalterably opposed to that two-pronged approach.

Furthermore, I would argue that with their insistence on increased defense spending as well as additional tax cuts, Republican “concern” about the deficit is little more than a sham that allows them to pursue their real policy goals.

If you want to show me where I’m wrong in that assessment, please do.

Steve

May 29th, 2012
1:19 pm

So, let’s try austerity like their now departed conservative leaders did, and see what happens. You know, deep recession and social unrest.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
1:20 pm

We have the RepugNOwecan’ts, who doubled the National Debt during King Dumbass the First’s reign and left his successor with an economy and government running over $1.2 trillion/yr deficits.

We have the RepugNOwecan’ts who inherited an economy and government running $250 billion surpluses.

We the RepugNOwecan’ts who started 2 unfunded wars the cost of which will likely exceed $5 trillions.

We have the RepugNOwecan’ts who passed ridiculous tax cuts for the richest Americans while at the same time starting 2 wars.

We have the RepugNOwecan’ts who passed an unfunded Medicare Part D Big Pharma give-away.

We have the RepugNOwecan’ts who single-handedly collapsed our economy and bankrupted our nation.

We have the RepugNOwecan’ts who doggedly refuse to even slightly reduce military spending, yet have blocked President Obama from letting the Bush tax cuts expire.

Yep, I know who I’m a’votin’ fur!

Steve

May 29th, 2012
1:21 pm

“Concern” about the deficit is really just their agenda to keep taxes low on the wealthy, which is essentially starving government. The concept of starving government is not a new concept and they don’t hide their agenda around this.

josef

May 29th, 2012
1:22 pm

I don’t understand the squiggly graphics and the experts on such matters as this present blog topic, but I do understand the concern from those questioning the mentality which seems to have taken over congress. A Republican put it in words that even I can understand…

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/25/simpson-show-me-a-guy-who-wont-compromise-and-ill-show-you-a-guy-with-rock-for-brains/

Paul

May 29th, 2012
1:22 pm

“If you want to show me where I’m wrong in that assessment, please do.”

Heck, open it up to the entire blog.

Answer will be the same.

Silence or diversion.

Truth

May 29th, 2012
1:23 pm

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, “the buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

Generation$crewed

May 29th, 2012
1:23 pm

Wow,

From Jay’s conclusion it would appear one can have a standoff with ones self!

I mean where did he even mention democrats? Apparently it was only the Republicans who had a standoff with themselves that caused the last time!

Jay,

C’mon we all know you despise republicans, that’s fine many of ur posters feel the same way about democrats.

1st we get that dishonest math piece that has been dismantled since it was published, now this!

Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)

May 29th, 2012
1:23 pm

“It’s not to make a political point this time. It’s to win an election.”

Elections ARE to “make a political point”

Rabbit

May 29th, 2012
1:24 pm

“In addition to the threat of default, the U.S. is facing the so-called fiscal cliff: a raft of spending cuts and tax increases that will happen at the end of this year unless Congress acts to postpone them. Another stalemate would almost certainly plunge the economy into a deep recession.”

There have to be cuts but thoughtful policy that will implement these cuts in conjunction with revenue increases designed to limit the negative effect of the cuts until they’ve been absorbed is the only way. to move from our current circumstance. It’s not a liberal position. It’s the only viable position.

straitroad

May 29th, 2012
1:24 pm

Jay, I don’t doubt that you are concerned for the country but I don’t see how your party’s solutions will help. Do you think that increasing the debt will get our finances in order? Do you teach your children that personal prosperity can be achieved by spending 40% more than they earn?

East Lake Ira

May 29th, 2012
1:25 pm

Joseph, USMC, Gordon:

Even Romney understands that cuts now will send the economy into a severe depression, why can’t you understand as well?

I really don’t get you folks.

The willful ingnorance is just astounding. Are you afraid to read items from the GOP that conflict with whatever the latest email chain spews as “truth” rather than opening your mind to the possibility that you are wrong?

Steve

May 29th, 2012
1:25 pm

Generation$crewed: are you confusing “convservadems” (who are now being voted out left and right) who voted with the Republicans on the debt ceiling fiasco?

jm

May 29th, 2012
1:26 pm

Jay is the bloomberg troll. I knew it.

Jay

May 29th, 2012
1:26 pm

“No, our out-of-control debt caused the downgrade, Jay. So what’s your solution to the debt problem? Just keep asking for a good ‘ol credit limit increase?

That is incorrect, Peadawg. Standard & Poors made it quite clear that the downgrade was driven not by our debt levels by the inability of Washington to discuss the problem with any sense of real responsibility. If the debt levels had driven that decision, it would not have been timed with the debt-ceiling debacle.

Furthermore, even the Ryan budget will require repeated and massive increases in the debt ceiling over the next few decades. The suggestion that the GOP is proposing any sort of alternative to “keep asking for a good ‘ol credit limit increase” has no basis in reality.

jm

May 29th, 2012
1:27 pm

Everyone keeps saying debt doesn’t matter. Appears it does.

If the market ever turns off the tap, we’re toast.

Jefferson

May 29th, 2012
1:27 pm

Romney will be Bush III, so to speak with each edition worse than before.

Steve

May 29th, 2012
1:27 pm

straitroad – the real policy is to get the economy cranking FIRST and then address the debt, when we have money coming in again and can actually afford to tackle the issue. You can’t fix the debt when you’re trying to climb out of a near depression.

Misty Fyed

May 29th, 2012
1:27 pm

How do you feel about a party that refuses to put forth a budget? They voted against their own presidents budget…voted down the republican budget…but won’t put one out of their own…If they’d deal with the budget issues like they are paid to do, we wouldn’t be worrying about debt crisis issues.

Of course you give the senate democrats a pass while blaming the republicans for arguing about passing more spending on to our kids.

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
1:28 pm

I’m really confused by Jay’s framing. Why on earth wouldn’t House GOPers want to tank the economy?

This is the simplest, easiest (i.e., most risk-free) way to do it. Hell, they’d be guilty of political malpractice if they didn’t engage another pointless debt-ceiling battle.

Seriously, am I missing something here?

RB from Gwinnett

May 29th, 2012
1:28 pm

That may be your opinion, jay, but as a matter of FACT, heading down the road you and your fellow socialists want to go down will result in the same place most of Europe is headed toward. Socialism is a proven failure by American standards everywhere it exists, but you can’t wait for us to get there as if somehow the result will be different this time. It won’t be different and no amount of pie in the sky good intentions from you and your ilk will change that.

Peadawg

May 29th, 2012
1:29 pm

” inability of Washington to discuss the problem with any sense of real responsibility.”

Oh so it was Washington, not just the GOP. Thanks for the clarification.

Keep playing the blame game while you’re at it.

jm

May 29th, 2012
1:29 pm

This author says uncertainty over the debt ceiling is a killer. And wrote this a few weeks ago: “The Truth About Uncertainty Is That It’s (Mostly) Untrue”

Georgia, The " New Mississippi "

May 29th, 2012
1:29 pm

You democrats and republicans will still be arguing even when you are standing next to each other in the soup line hoping to get a meal……………. unless the tea party blocks the line.

Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)

May 29th, 2012
1:29 pm

“How do you feel about a party that refuses to put forth a budget?”

You seem to be under the delustion – common today – that a budget is anything more than symbolic,

mm

May 29th, 2012
1:30 pm

“No, our out-of-control debt caused the downgrade, Jay. So what’s your solution to the debt problem?

You cons are like a broken record. When your assinine party decides to raise revenue, then the dems will cut spending, including the military There is no reason as all for the current price of our military.

Your party cut taxes without cutting spending 10 years ago. The true party of borrow and spend.

Your party threatended to let our country default just to keep those tax cuts in place. More borrow and spend.

Your party started 2 wars that were not financed. More borrow and spend.

Your party created the Nedare Part D fiasco. More borrow and spend.

Your party tried to kill the postal service by mandating they pay for 75 years of retirement funds in 10 years.

I could go on and on. You cons are not very bright.

GT

May 29th, 2012
1:31 pm

There was a scene on a presidential town hall meeting where a Tea Party member and leader Ryan Rhodes approached the President and demand to know why Vice President Joe Biden had allegedly called the Tea Party “terrorists”. As usual the Tea Party bullies were clueless to the real problems effecting America and wanted to discuss their own agenda. In the same disrespectful manner of Joe Wilson of South Carolina the Tea Party leader was self absorbed in his own ego, like some immature high schooler showing off to his girlfriend. They think they are Brando taking over a soda shop in leather jackets, where they are closer to Nazi’s at a book burning. Our enemies are within, our fear is pointed in the wrong direction. Now the recognition comes from more voices that VP Biden, wonder how many people can be bullied at one time.

Robyn

May 29th, 2012
1:31 pm

Anyone recall Obama’s vote on raising the debt limit when he was a senator? The hypocrisy is ear-hole deep.

MiltonMan

May 29th, 2012
1:31 pm

According to S&P, “It said the bipartisan agreement reached this week to find at least $2.1 trillion in budget savings “fell short” of what was necessary to tame the nation’s debt over time and predicted that leaders would not be likely to achieve more savings in the future.”

A bipartisan agreement = reps fault in Jay’s world.

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
1:31 pm

I should add, Jay, that it’s not like your liberal media colleagues are actually going to call out these vile people. They’ll dutifully continue covering the political battle, as if a sh-tty economy primarily affects the politicians who stand to win or lose their seats.

Chuck

May 29th, 2012
1:32 pm

I love how you folks truely believe that either party cares about the economy as it effects the country. Both the Democrats and Republicans care about the economy is as much as it helps them either gain or maintain power. Right now Barack Obama is asking for the debt limit to be increased while the Republicans are fighting him, when George Bush asked for the debt limit to be increased the Republicans were all for it, and Senator Obama said it would be un-american and dangerous to increase it. It is amazing how the worm turns. What is even more amazing is how the media is never really honest about the situation, they just take one side or the other.

BlahBlahBlah

May 29th, 2012
1:33 pm

The Democrats “plan”

1. Make rich people pay more now
2. Promise to cut spending later
3. Always argue that it’s not “later” yet

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

May 29th, 2012
1:33 pm

“the modern Republican Party, as currently constituted, poses a real threat to my country, to my children’s future prosperity and to basic rules of logic and reason”

Jay,
That really should be on a tee shirt…

Peadawg

May 29th, 2012
1:33 pm

“You cons”

I’m not a “con” just b/c I have a different opinion than you on a particular subject. I stopped reading your post after those first 2 lines.

MiltonMan

May 29th, 2012
1:33 pm

Obama/Reid: I was first against it before I was for it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWOMsugKkfk

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
1:34 pm

“[T]he real policy is to get the economy cranking FIRST and then address the debt, when we have money coming in again and can actually afford to tackle the issue. You can’t fix the debt when you’re trying to climb out of a near depression.”

Friends, we could have a balanced budget within 6 months and return our country to prosperity in under a year if we instituted a 35% tariff on goods coming into this country from low-wage countries like China, Malaysia, Vietnam and Mexico (not to mention raising the standard of living in their countries).

Of course, the multinational corporations who actually run our country and own and tell our politicians what to do would never stand for it. It would mean less profits for them.

Peadawg

May 29th, 2012
1:34 pm

Now, mm, if you want to re-phrase your post and take out all the “your party” crap, please do and I’ll read it.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
1:35 pm

their (the GOP’s) insistence on increased defense spending

Insanity with a capital I.

Jefferson

May 29th, 2012
1:35 pm

The problem is cleary the GOP.

Steve

May 29th, 2012
1:37 pm

Bring back the tax rates of the 1950s under Republican Eisenhower when we were profitable, the middle class thrived, and thus the rich profited tremendously and earned more than they lost from tax hikes.

Come on people, stop this current starve the govt/prop up the wealthy insanity that is slowly destroying us.

Where is George W. Bush?

May 29th, 2012
1:37 pm

Atlas Shrugging

May 29th, 2012
1:37 pm

What a useless discussion..neither party has the balls to address entitlements and/or the national debt this year, next years, or 10 years from now …we the people had much rather live in total denial. Move over Greece, make room for the US of A.

JohnnyReb

May 29th, 2012
1:37 pm

Naturally, Liberals only see their side of a debate. In their bleeeding heart thought process debating the debt ceiling does the damage, not adding more trillions to the debt.

Put this one on the ocean front property in Arizona file.

josef

May 29th, 2012
1:38 pm

Georgia, The ” New Mississippi ”

Georgia should be so lucky…cheap, tacky, trashy, unimaginative and downright bigoted…ignoramus!

SFD

I see Milton Man didn’t answer you downstairs…I hope you were wrong…

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

May 29th, 2012
1:39 pm

GT

May 29th, 2012
1:40 pm

The agenda is power at any cost, organized crime with polish. Small government paid off by big money, to turn its head.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
1:40 pm

Growth in nonfarm payrolls decelerated to an average 88,000 a month during the three months of the debt-ceiling impasse

Suddenly the plan becomes clear… there is a method to their madness….

larry

May 29th, 2012
1:42 pm

The Republicans ” plan”

Make the poor and middle class pay more now
Promise to cut defense spending later
Always argue that it isn’t ” later ” yet

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
1:42 pm

JohnnyReb — “Naturally, Liberals only see their side of a debate. In their bleeeding heart thought process debating the debt ceiling does the damage, not adding more trillions to the debt.”

Given that the GOP isn’t serious about addressing the issue and won’t either negotiate in good faith or stand by prior agreements that they’ve made, the resulting roadblock makes increasing the debt ceiling *indispensable.*

You hear that? If both sides can’t or won’t come to good-faith agreements and/or stand by them, then we have NO CHOICE BUT TO raise the debt ceiling.

If you don’t want it raised again, then contact your lawmakers and lean on them to STOP ACTING LIKE CHILDREN on this issue.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
1:42 pm

Most of you know my position.

The Democratic Party is gawd awful bad.

And the GOP is degrees of magnitude worse.

TaxPayer

May 29th, 2012
1:43 pm

Your pathetic Bookman…

At least Joseph did not think that you ARE pathetic, Jay.

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
1:43 pm

Suddenly the plan becomes clear… there is a method to their madness….

tap tap tap… hello, is this thing on?

“It’s not a bug, it’s a feature,” he said for the thousandth time.

Mick

May 29th, 2012
1:44 pm

reb

The debt only seems to matter when there is a democrat in the white house…

Chuck

May 29th, 2012
1:45 pm

Taxing the rich is just something that is being thrown out as a distraction to the masses, you could tax the rich at 100% at anything over $200,000 and you would barely have enough money to run the country for 2 days, look it up. That is a nothing arguement that is meant to divide the country and have them against each other, instead of the people that should be held accountable for the demise of this country and that is the Democrats and Republicans. Until we SLASH the big 3, Social Security, Medicare, and Defence, not cut but slash,we will never fix the budget. Do not fall in the trap that they are setting for you. If you are consumed with hating each other, then you will leave them alone.

josef

May 29th, 2012
1:46 pm

TAXI
@ 1:43

I laughed out loud when I saw that one…I try not to be too picky given that I make plenty of such errors myself, but that one was outstanding…I couldn’t come up with a snip,,,good job… :-)

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

May 29th, 2012
1:46 pm

One side of mouth….NO MORE SPENDING!

Other side of mouth…BILLIONS MORE IN DEFENSE SPENDING!

Good Lord Almighty

Mick

May 29th, 2012
1:46 pm

chuck

Social security is solvent and not the problem…irresponsible tax cuts, wars, medicare part d etc…

Peadawg

May 29th, 2012
1:47 pm

“One side of mouth….NO MORE SPENDING!” – Is that the side (Democrats) what want to raise the debt ceiling?

Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)

May 29th, 2012
1:49 pm

“Make the poor and middle class pay more now
Promise to cut defense spending later
Always argue that it isn’t ” later ” yet”

Well, yes…but that’s not so VERY different from saying that it’s not good to cut spending during an economic downturn, then working to improve the economy…then not cutting spending when it does improve because it’s “not neccessary since we are easily meeting our obligations”

Peter

May 29th, 2012
1:49 pm

How many times did the GOP and Bush Jr raise the debt ceiling ?

Remember deficits don’t matter !

Adam

May 29th, 2012
1:49 pm

RB: That may be your opinion, jay, but as a matter of FACT, heading down the road you and your fellow socialists want to go down will result in the same place most of Europe is headed toward

No, RB, the socialists have not been in control in Europe. The conservatives have been, and they pushed austerity, got their wish, and now we see how quickly you can have negative results from that. Our country? No major federal austerity, and we are in much better shape.

Chuck

May 29th, 2012
1:49 pm

O.K. Mick, whatever, by the way what does the Kool-aid taste like?

Jefferson

May 29th, 2012
1:50 pm

Chuck, SS has not cost the US nothing, it has funded itselft — medicare is a different story as fraud and greed of Drs, hospitals and insurance companies are killing it.

SS can be valid with small additional funding until the base broadens.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

May 29th, 2012
1:50 pm

Peadawg

Clearly you’ve never been accused of being a deep thinker.

Casual at the best of times I think.

Steve

May 29th, 2012
1:51 pm

“No, RB, the socialists have not been in control in Europe. The conservatives have been, and they pushed austerity, got their wish, and now we see how quickly you can have negative results from that. Our country? No major federal austerity, and we are in much better shape.”

Absolutely. This has been reported fact, day after day. But, perhaps not on Faux News Network.

Peadawg

May 29th, 2012
1:51 pm

So enlighten me, Granny. When (recently, not during the 2008 election) has Obama said no more spending?

Peter

May 29th, 2012
1:51 pm

BlahBlahBlah. GOP under Bush…raised the debt ceiling how many times ? Started 2 wars, and cut taxes all because deficits don’t matter.

Sounds like you are speaking GOP with your signature name !

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
1:52 pm

“All told, the data tell us that a debt-ceiling standoff is an act of economic sabotage”

First of all cause and effect hasn’t been proven as several of the liberals on here will no doubt attest. Only correlation. Secondly, a more severe act of economic sabotage would be to ignore the skyrocketing mountain of debt until we become Greece and folks are rioting in the streets.

“It’s also important to note that the standoff created an historic downgrade of the USA’s credit worthiness.”

Not buying it. Politicians have been bickering about the debt and deficits for a long time. Why would it be any different here. All of a sudden S & P used “bickering” as an excuse to downgrade debt? Baloney. More like they wanted to come off as being neutral in the R vs D debate over the debt so they opined that all of a sudden political bickering is somehow now a quantifiable factor in rating one’s debt- That’s ridiculous and is just a weak cop out along with the grudging admission that the debt in and of itself is an enormous factor.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
1:52 pm

Taxing the rich is just something that is being thrown out as a distraction to the masses

Buffalo chips.

Economic justice (look up the definition if you must) is NOT a distraction. It is altogether American!

you could tax the rich at 100% at anything over $200,000 and you would barely have enough money to run the country for 2 days, look it up.

BFD.

Where did you Republicans even come up with that cow pie about this being a matter of running the government/paying off the debt?

John Christopher

May 29th, 2012
1:52 pm

Its simple…government is so big that we need to slow down and take care of inefficiencies, waste
and pay down the debt. Whats wrong with wanting austerity versus run a way spending. You can’t keep raising the debt ceiling and raising taxes. At the end of the day we the voters are the blame because for some reason we keep sending these sticky finger clowns to Washington.

Gordon

May 29th, 2012
1:53 pm

Jay@1:18,

Let’s get this out of the way immediately: I am not a Republican, and do not support their resistence to defense cuts.

My disagreement with most on the left is this “balanced” argument. The word “balanced” seems to imply that closing the deficit can be accomplished by roughly equal parts of revenue enhancement and spending cuts. I disagree for several reasons.

1) The natural tendency of both parties is to spend, because it pleases constituents. Raising revenue is less of a problem because it doesn’t affect nearly as many people, and may actually be viewed as a positive as long as it is the other guy, especially the rich. So when taxes are raised, you don’t hear politicians say “Now that we have increased revenue, let’s get to work on those spending cuts!”. It just never happens. Only if raising taxes can be tied to spending cuts legislatively should they even be considered.

2) Raising taxes only on the rich does not bring in enough revenue to even cover the projected increases in spending over the next few years, not to mention the current deficit.

3) As I mentioned before, the goal at this point should be less to avoid an economic downturn than to actually implement true deficit reduction to avoid a far greater problem – economic meltdown. You have suggested we wait until the economy is humming again before we actually do meaningful entitlement reform, when the cuts will be less painful. But we can’t continue to wait. We must give up on the idea that there is a way out of this that is easy, or that politicians will EVER be of the mindset to actually cut spending. We must demand it. Putting in an actual debt limit seems like a way to demand it.

4) Revenues should drive expenses, not the other way around. No person or business who is economically successful decides how much revenue they need to obtain AFTER they spend money. They make the decision on what to spend based on the revenue they receive or expect to receive. That is true for individuals, corporations, local government, and state government. What makes the federnal government think it can be any different? You can write a hundred blogs on why we need more revenue, and that may all be valid, but until we actually get that revenue we can’t spend that money. Those of you who really want higher taxes are going about this all wrong – cut government to be in line with revenue, then stand back and watch the outcry for more revenue.

Like you, I really am worried about my children’s future.

Mick

May 29th, 2012
1:54 pm

chuck

You should know – you drink it by the gallons…

Adam

May 29th, 2012
1:54 pm

John: Whats wrong with wanting austerity versus run a way spending

Here’s what’s wrong:
Austerity is being proposed, runaway spending is NOT.

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
1:54 pm

Chuck,

How about cut SS, cut Medicare, cut defense spending, raise taxes on people who make over $250k per year, do away with tax loopholes that favor the wealthiest Americans, and eliminate corporate tax loopholes/welfare?

With me?

Rick in Grayson

May 29th, 2012
1:54 pm

Gordon wrote a great comment about the need to live within our means. Truth had a comment attributed to Obama saying the same thing. We need to reduce spending much more than increasing taxes.

Even the Democrats won’t pass Obama’s latest budget!

We also need to cut defense spending (loss of jobs) and give up the “need” to be the world’s policemen. Obama can’t even influence any new goverments being created in the Middle East/North Africa. The Muslim Brotherhood has the upper hand and that does not look good for the future of the USA.

Steve

May 29th, 2012
1:55 pm

Gordon, liberals, Democrat, and Jay have repeatedly stated that raising taxes AND Cutting spending (not just social programs, but ACROSS THE BOARD…ie Military Industrial complex) is crucial to getting us out of this mess.

However, the GOP only seems to want to CUT taxes. Period.

The Truth

May 29th, 2012
1:55 pm

Funny how the Republican’ts (including the pathetic Kyle Wingfield) forget that their patron saint of fiscal conservatism Ronald Reagan raised the debt limit 18 times and pushed through the largest tax increase of any President prior to his term. What a bunch of hypocrite liars. I guess that’s why they’re called ‘Cons’.

Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)

May 29th, 2012
1:55 pm

“Whats wrong with wanting austerity versus run a way spending. ”

I refer you to Europe and it’s problems with austerity as we speak

Adam

May 29th, 2012
1:55 pm

Thulsa: First of all cause and effect hasn’t been proven as several of the liberals on here will no doubt attest. Only correlation

True Thulsa. The real question is if the ones pushing for a debt ceiling fight THINK this will be an effect, and that is WHY they are doing it.

Peadawg

May 29th, 2012
1:57 pm

“With me?”

All the way man, 100%.

Jefferson

May 29th, 2012
1:57 pm

You cannot compare gov’t to business or personal finances — to do so is starting the thinking process flawed from the get go.

SoGaVet

May 29th, 2012
1:57 pm

We CAN balance the budget and at least stop deficit spending.

Of course, that would require compromise and a realization that neither party is willing to cut spending to meet revenues, thus requiring the more reasonable solution of cutting spending AND raising revevues.

The GOP seems to think it’s more fun to allow us to sink deeper in debt than at least stopping the bleeding while we seek real solutions.

Mike Shearer

May 29th, 2012
1:58 pm

Anybody who has an understanding beyond the third grade level realizes that we are spending at an unsustainable rate. We have kicked this issue down the road as far as possible. You dim bulb progressives seem unable to comprehend that we’re bankrupt unless something is done, and done now. The fact that you condemn the responsible adults is just a further indication of how far off the mark you are, and how you fail to understand basic principles of finance. Good luck with that strategy. The American people have had enough of this nonsense!

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
1:58 pm

‘All the way man, 100%’

Then you will probably want to vote for Obama…Mitt is nowhere near your position here, Obama is much closer…

The Snark

May 29th, 2012
1:58 pm

I’m going to follow the Republican/Tea Party approach to curbing my teenager’s profligate credit card spending. The next time their bill is due, I’m going to forbid them from making the minimum payment! That’ll solve the problem!

Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)

May 29th, 2012
1:59 pm

“Even the Democrats won’t pass Obama’s latest budget!”

A budget is merely symbolic, but there do seem to be a LOT of the conned who don’t know that.

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
1:59 pm

‘The American people have had enough of this nonsense!’

You must really hate the Ryan plan…

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

May 29th, 2012
2:00 pm

Naturally, Liberals only see their side of a debate. In their bleeeding heart thought process debating the debt ceiling does the damage, not adding more trillions to the debt.

Then why didn’t our credit rating go down the 19 times the debt ceiling was raised during the Bush administration.

You aren’t very bright.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
2:00 pm

Just as an aside from downstairs, I think Mitt and about six of his buddies need to hold Donald Trump down and shear off that thing from the top of the birther’s head!

ragnar danneskjold

May 29th, 2012
2:01 pm

We can all agree that leftists think it is patriotic to spend a trillion dollars you do not have, on shovel-ready jobs that aren’t, and to kick the can down the road when it comes to paying for it all. Given the roaring success of the “Stimulus” – the program whose name cannot be spoken – is it any wonder that leftists whine about republican unwillingness to share the blame for their lunatic policies?

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

May 29th, 2012
2:01 pm

We have kicked this issue down the road as far as possible.

Agreed, Bush kicked the cost of two wars down the road.

And that is costing us big time now.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
2:02 pm

What if:
We had not repealed Glass-Steagall turning our banking system into a casino.

What if:
We had not passed NAFTA (and a host of other “free” trade bills)

What if:
Al Gore had been “awarded” the presidency and left the tax code alone.

What if:
We hadn’t granted China most favored nation status.

What if:
We hadn’t passed laws that encourage entire industries to move to low-wage countries

What if:
We protected our workers instead of throwing them under the bus.

What if:
We had not started 2 wars costing $5 trillion.

What if:
We had not passed a mammoth unfunded Medicare Part D Big Pharma giveaway.

Well, I don’t even need to wonder, I know.

Our nation would be debt-free (think about that for a minute or two.).

Four thousand Americans would still be alive.

Our nation would still be prosperous like it once was.

There would be little, if any, unemployment.

DawgDad

May 29th, 2012
2:02 pm

It takes two parties to create a “standoff”, not one.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
2:02 pm

“No, RB, the socialists have not been in control in Europe. The conservatives have been, and they pushed austerity, got their wish, and now we see how quickly you can have negative results from that. Our country?”

Wrong wrong wrong. Look at the countries at the center of the crisis. Greece has been ruled by socialists for a very long time. A center right govt only recently took control in Spain. And in Portugal I believe their debt also was run up over time by leftist govts. Con govts have only recently taken power as in the last couple of years in Spain and Britain and quite frankly the problems facing those countries today- debt, is a problem run up over decades. And they took power just as the Greek tragedy began to unfold further dragging down economies continent wide.

The current economic problems the liberals are attributing to austerity when in fact the problems can be more correctly attributed to the continent wide crisis of confidence which started a couple of years ago with Greece’s shaky financial picture. The debt problems of Greece and the continent as a whole are what is slowing economic growth- not austerity as some on here have been brainwashed to believe.

barking frog

May 29th, 2012
2:03 pm

JamVet
Coif envy?

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
2:03 pm

the responsible adults

And who, pray tell, is that?

PLEASE don’t try and sell me the fetid boloney that it is the GOP!

The Republican Party – across the board – has been a gathering of spendaholics in need of a fiscal intervention for over thirty years.

Word.

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
2:03 pm

‘We can all agree that leftists think it is patriotic to spend a trillion dollars you do not have…’

Another Ryan Plan hater…

Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)

May 29th, 2012
2:03 pm

“We can all agree that leftists think it is patriotic to spend a trillion dollars you do not have, on shovel-ready jobs that aren’t, and to kick the can down the road when it comes to paying for it all”

We can all agree that rightists think it is patriotic to spend a trillion dollars you do no have, on wars that aren’t neccessary, and to kick the can down the road when it comes to paying for it all.

Mitt Zombie

May 29th, 2012
2:03 pm

In case anyone missed it, former GOP Sen. Alan Simpson of Wyoming agrees that Tea Party driven dogma is hurting the country.

In remarkably colorful terms, former Sen. Alan Simpson (R-WY) on Sunday lashed out at members of his party for their unyielding opposition to new tax revenues, whom he described as stymieing a debt reduction agreement.

“I guess I’m known as a RINO now, which means a Republican in name only, because, I guess, of social views, perhaps, or common sense would be another one, which seems to escape members of our party,” said Simpson, a co-chair of President Obama’s fiscal commission, on CNN’s “Fareed Zakaria GPS.”

“For heaven’s sake, you have Grover Norquist wandering the earth in his white robes saying that if you raise taxes one penny, he’ll defeat you,” he added. “He can’t murder you. He can’t burn your house. The only thing he can do to you, as an elected official, is defeat you for reelection. And if that means more to you than your country when we need patriots to come out in a situation when we’re in extremity, you shouldn’t even be in Congress.”

The failure on Capitol Hill to agree on the parameters of a sustainable fiscal vision has been the topic of lots of finger-pointing. As the conventional wisdom goes, Republicans refuse to budge on taxes and Democrats refuse to budge on safety-net programs. Democrats, however, speak often about the need to cut entitlement spending as part of a balanced deal, while Republicans maintain that new taxes are unacceptable.

“You can’t cut spending your way out of this hole. You can’t grow your way out of this hole. And you can’t tax your way out of this hole. So put that in your pipe and smoke it, we tell these people. This is madness,” Simpson said. “If you want to be a purist, go somewhere on a mountaintop and praise the East or something. But if you want to be in politics, you learn to compromise. And you learn to compromise on the issue without compromising yourself. Show me a guy who won’t compromise and I’ll show you a guy with rock for brains.”

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

May 29th, 2012
2:04 pm

The American people have had enough of this nonsense!

Agreed again. We will never go back to the failed policies that started this mess.

Namely giving huge tax breaks to the wealthy that they didn’t need and starting two wars they had no idea how to win or pay for.

Never Again !!!!!

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
2:04 pm

R. Danneskjold — “We can all agree that leftists think it is patriotic to spend a trillion dollars you do not have”

Actually, I think we can all agree that the voices in your head have clearly been getting much louder lately.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
2:04 pm

JamVet,

Can’t shear off that dead rat thing on Trump’s head. Its what makes him the Donald.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
2:04 pm

frog, too funny.

Fifty seven and still a full head of non-grey hair.

Just got lucky in that department, I guess (Among others! LOL at me!)

Steve Atl

May 29th, 2012
2:05 pm

Dearest Mr. Bookman,

Does $16 TRILLION in debt and growing pose any risk whatsoever to you and you children?

Of course not, that wouldn’t support your agenda. More and more pathetic every day…Jay.

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
2:05 pm

Soothsayer @ 2:02…

Right on, right on, right on…

getalife

May 29th, 2012
2:05 pm

I remember a balanced budget with a surplus and deficits don’t matter.

Moving on, lets give him four more to finish cleaning up the last gop mess.

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
2:07 pm

‘We can all agree that leftists think it is patriotic to spend a trillion dollars you do not have’

Why do ALL the cons here HATE the Ryan Plan!

Chuck

May 29th, 2012
2:07 pm

So JamVet so for you taxing the rich is not about the economy but about punishing the rich, that is a little sad that you would hate these people that you do know. I am sure that the Democrate will love knowing that you are such a good little lamb, and that reason doesn’t matter anymore to you, just emotion. The Democrats and the Republicans sure have the brainwashing methods down pat.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
2:07 pm

DawgDad: It takes two parties to create a “standoff”, not one.

After all, a compromise is when the Democrats just do whatever the Republicans want, right?

Chuck

May 29th, 2012
2:09 pm

Mick, who’s kool-aid do I drink I do not support either party. Good comeback.

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
2:09 pm

Do any on the right support the Ryan Plan?

Mitt does…

ragnar danneskjold

May 29th, 2012
2:10 pm

Given that we now know that Obama never finished a math class after the 10th grade, is it any wonder that his economic policies are utter failures?

Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)

May 29th, 2012
2:10 pm

“DawgDad: It takes two parties to create a “standoff”, not one”

Not neccessarily. When one side proposes a compromise that gives each side some of what they want and some of what they don’t want…but the other side says “my way or the highway” – then you have a ONE SIDED stand-off.

williebkind

May 29th, 2012
2:10 pm

Jay Bookman ‘… debt-ceiling standoff is an act of economic sabotage’

Then why dont the liberals backoff?

ragnar danneskjold

May 29th, 2012
2:11 pm

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
2:11 pm

Doom — “Wrong wrong wrong. Look at the countries at the center of the crisis. Greece has been ruled by socialists for a very long time. A center right govt only recently took control in Spain. And in Portugal I believe their debt also was run up over time by leftist govts. Con govts have only recently taken power as in the last couple of years in Spain and Britain and quite frankly the problems facing those countries today- debt, is a problem run up over decades. And they took power just as the Greek tragedy began to unfold further dragging down economies continent wide.”

Correlation is not causation. ;)

Greece has had a longstanding problem with tax cheats — even wage earners cheat the system — and as such has been slowly starving itself of revenues. *Any* government that allowed that to go on too long would face Greece’s problems.

Spain’s Socialist government (elected shortly after 9/11) wasn’t the issue in their budget woes; it was a real-estate meltdown, much like what we experienced. Same thing in Portugal, the UK and Ireland. Respectfully, describing their budget woes as being rooted in Socialist governance is neither true nor honest, particularly as Socialist governments in Scandinavia are doing okay.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
2:11 pm

Thulsa: Surely you are not suggesting that Greece is the major reason for the entire continent having a double dip recession? Because that seems to be what you are saying. And you leave out that MANY of the governments were recently taken over by conservatives, and that ALL of them pushed austerity. So what makes more sense, that Greece had some problems and caused both the initial and second recessions over there, or that we over here caused the global recession and the conservative governments that took over in multiple countries pushed austerity and made things worse?

The fact is Greece is the ONLY country you are consistently using as an example. I doubt you even know much about what actually happened and is happening in that country, actually. The most I have heard from the people using Greece as an example has been just how “far left” their government was in terms of the welfare state. You seem to think that’s all they ever spent money on, and you also conveniently ignore that its influence on the whole Eurozone is not as great as you portray.

Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)

May 29th, 2012
2:11 pm

“Given that we now know that Obama never finished a math class after the 10th grade,”

Ok, which talking head is pushing THIS one?

JohnnyReb

May 29th, 2012
2:13 pm

JHM – the child in the room when it comes to the budget and deficit is Obama. But you probably still believe the article by Jay where it was claimed Obama has been thrifty.

Mick – certainly Repubs deserve a large share of the blame for the deficit, however, they do seem to be the only ones serious about reducing it. On the Left, there is nothing but spin and creative bookkeeping.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
2:13 pm

R. Danneskjold — “But we now can understand Obama’s game plan:”

Thread Godwinned. You lose.

williebkind

May 29th, 2012
2:13 pm

Doggone/GA – 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)

May 29th, 2012
2:10 pm
Are talking about the smoke filled backrooms during the passing of Obamacare?

barking frog

May 29th, 2012
2:13 pm

Jay has called out the donald.
Will the donald call back?

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
2:14 pm

‘however, they do seem to be the only ones serious about reducing it.’

Oh good. Someone that can explain how the Ryan plan reduces our debt.

Thanks in advance…

Adam

May 29th, 2012
2:14 pm

I’ve seen two people here suggest that in the debt ceiling fight the Democrats should just cave.

Is this one on the talking point shows today?

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
2:15 pm

Wyoming is a strange state, politically.

It gave us an excellent human being like Alan Simpson.

And it also gave us the worst vice president in American history – Dick Cheney.

about punishing the rich

PUNISHING???!!!

If the super-rich in this country are being punished, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE punish me!

Your vocabulary needs some real serious help, Chuck…

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
2:15 pm

JohnnyReb — “JHM – the child in the room when it comes to the budget and deficit is Obama.”

Rejected. The GOP has made agreements and has later repudiated them.

“But you probably still believe the article by Jay where it was claimed Obama has been thrifty.”

I’m capable of speaking for myself, thanks. If the best you can do is make up things and attribute them to others, then I think the child at Jay’s table is you yourself.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
2:16 pm

Gordon: “Now that we have increased revenue, let’s get to work on those spending cuts!”. It just never happens

Well, we’ve tried the opposite: DECREASING revenue, and yet the spending continued anyway.

Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)

May 29th, 2012
2:16 pm

“Are talking about the smoke filled backrooms during the passing of Obamacare”

No. (another simple answer to a stupid question)

Adam

May 29th, 2012
2:18 pm

Are talking about the smoke filled backrooms during the passing of Obamacare

Only “fools” would depict 8 months worth of negotiation and bill reading/writing this way.

williebkind

May 29th, 2012
2:18 pm

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
2:02 pm

What if Osama bin laden not attacked the U.S.?

What if Al Gore would have won his home state? aaahhh thats enough

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
2:18 pm

’smoke filled backrooms during the passing of Obamacare’

Yup, Boehner still smokes…

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:19 pm

Your right Jay. Modern RINOs are a problem, hence the tea party creation. That being said, the only reason todays repubs are a threat is due to them acting like dems.

DawgDad

May 29th, 2012
2:20 pm

“What a bunch of hypocrite liars

Speak for yourself, “The Truth”. Half-truth doesn’t qualify as truth. Reagan had a Democrat Congress which heavily influenced spending (drove much of it), and yes, there was a different mind-set at the time regarding deficits prevailing in BOTH parties.

Shine

May 29th, 2012
2:20 pm

I agree with you on this one.

williebkind

May 29th, 2012
2:20 pm

Doggone/GA – 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)

May 29th, 2012
2:16 pm

Well lets keep this simple then. How many conservatives were in those smoked filled back rooms when the decision was made? It is an easy question…I will help you Zero or None. You choose.

Richard L

May 29th, 2012
2:20 pm

Well, the last stand off was the democrats fault, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they pull the same crap again.

JohnnyReb

May 29th, 2012
2:21 pm

JHM – the Rex Nutting piece in Market Watch – WSJ that Jay referenced for his piece on Obama spending has been belittled till the cows came home. Old Rex’s credibility is in the toilet. The deficit does not rise if there is no spending (except of course for interest increasing). And, Obama is King of deficits.

All that fine wording you used in replying equals you don’t know of which you write.

barking frog

May 29th, 2012
2:21 pm

Congressional payroll and
expenses should be stopped
first in a Government
shutdown.

Gordon

May 29th, 2012
2:21 pm

Adam,

So we’ve increased revenue, and spending kept going. And we’ve decreased revenue, and spending kept going. So maybe the problem is increased spending.

We’ve proven we can increase taxes, decrease taxes, and increase spending, and all the various combinations. So what’s left? Decreased spending. Tying that to revenue increases is fine with me. But no revenue increases without meaningful spending decreases. And no “we’ll get to that later” nonsense either. We both know it won’t happen no matter who is in charge.

williebkind

May 29th, 2012
2:22 pm

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
2:18 pm
You mean you think he was in those smoke filled back rooms?

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
2:22 pm

“I refer you to Europe and it’s problems with austerity as we speak”

And I refer you to the fact that Europe’s problems began before austerity measures- the debt crisis preceded austerity measures.

Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)

May 29th, 2012
2:22 pm

“How many conservatives were in those smoked filled back rooms when the decision was made?”

Here’s a counter question: how many of the features of the healthcare bill were first touted and promoted by conservatives…UNTIL they showed up in that bill?

JohnnyReb

May 29th, 2012
2:23 pm

JHM – one other thing. There are two books in the works on the last Obama vs Boehner debt ceiling debate. It should be no surprise one blames Obama and the other Boehner. We may never know the truth.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:23 pm

America is the MC Hammer of countries in terms of managing finances. to say revenues is the issue is to say MC Hammer just needed to sell more Cant Touch This Albums.

America just needs to get rid of the hanger ons like Hammer should have done or else we will stat going gangsta like he did.

Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)

May 29th, 2012
2:24 pm

“the debt crisis preceded austerity measures”

And how much have the austerity measure helped?

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
2:24 pm

Lord Help Us
May 29th, 2012
2:18 pm

’smoke filled backrooms during the passing of Obamacare’

Yup, Boehner still smokes…

How quickly they forget about the seediness of the Louisiana purchase and the cornhusker kickback.

williebkind

May 29th, 2012
2:25 pm

“And I refer you to the fact that Europe’s problems began before austerity measures- the debt crisis preceded austerity measures.”

Well TD I guess the liberals can use their own style of interpretation and come up with climate change created by man.

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
2:26 pm

‘You mean you think he was in those smoke filled back rooms?’

I have no idea…and neither do you (have any idea about how the legislation worked its way through our Congress). But, I do think that focusing on ’smoke filled back rooms’ is one helluva deflection.

BTW: if backroom deal cutting is one of your concerns, perhaps you should turn an eye toward the GOP…

Chuck

May 29th, 2012
2:26 pm

JamVet,

My vocabulary is fine. When you admit that raising taxes on someone who is rich in not about the economy, then it can only be about punishment. Even President Obama said that raising the taxes on the rich is not really about revenue but about fairness. I just can’t figure out how increasing the income tax on some people, while about 47% of people do not pay anything and about 26% of those people actually get back more than they put in, where is the fairness. When did being successful make you an enemy of the state?

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
2:27 pm

JohnnyReb — “JHM – the Rex Nutting piece in Market Watch”

The one I didn’t refer to? The one that you so kindly brought up, manufactured an opinion on for me and then tried to shove into my mouth?

“All that fine wording you used in replying equals you don’t know of which you write.”

Actually, it shows that you’ll gladly deflect by making crap up that someone didn’t say and then try to dishonestly represent it as being their opinion — as you just did to me. You should be ashamed of yourself.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
2:27 pm

Other than the “conservative/Republican” representatives from the giant HMOs, BIG pharma and the insurance companies, I agree; there was no conservative input to post RomneyCare/Obamacare at all.

And talk about the ULTIMATE flip-floppers, look no further than this sham of a Republican Party!

The cons had tons of input.

The only voices NOT ALLOWED at the table – courtesy of said Republicans and Max Baucus – were advocates for Single Payer.

willie, on top of all of your many humiliations, you’re bringing out the global cooling meme?

Common Sense isn't very Common

May 29th, 2012
2:28 pm

JamVet

Fifty seven and still a full head of non-grey hair.
————————————————————————

Just one of the many reasons you’re hated
:-)

j/k

williebkind

May 29th, 2012
2:28 pm

I hold the conservatives responsible if they do anything until after the election. Do not compromise with the progessive liberals. This country can survive until november, then the liberals/socialists/communists/capitalist haters will be removed. I have a dream!

Gordon

May 29th, 2012
2:28 pm

Adam

May 29th, 2012
1:54 pm
Here’s what’s wrong:
Austerity is being proposed, runaway spending is NOT.

Runaway spending is built into the budget. It increases 7% a year automatically. By the end of this decade, the debt is projected to be $20T. Just keeping the debt where it is will be quite an accomplishment.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

May 29th, 2012
2:29 pm

Peadawg

Thanks for making the point.

Casual.

JohnnyReb

May 29th, 2012
2:29 pm

JHM – the only thing I’m ashamed of is trying to have an honest debate with you.

williebkind

May 29th, 2012
2:30 pm

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
2:27 pm
It just a recapitualion of the many absurd liberal proclamations.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:31 pm

‘Let me get this straight . . ..
We’re going to be “gifted” with a health care
plan we are forced to purchase and
fined if we don’t,
Which purportedly covers at least
ten million more people,
without adding a single new doctor,
but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents,
written by a committee whose chairman
says he doesn’t understand it,
passed by a Congress that didn’t read it (but
exempted themselves from it),
and signed by a Dumbo President who smokes,
with funding administered by a treasury chief who
didn’t pay his taxes,
for which we’ll be taxed for four years before any
benefits take effect,
by a congress which has
already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare,
all to be overseen by an obese surgeon general
and financed by a country that’s broke!!

What the hell could possibly go wrong?’

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
2:31 pm

Still looking for backers of the Ryan Plan…

Gordon, TD, willie, chuck, common…Hello?

This is a pretty important part of a discussion on deficits and all I hear from you guys on the Ryan plan is…chirp…chirp…

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

May 29th, 2012
2:32 pm

Common Sense isn’t very Common

May 29th, 2012
2:28 pm

Hey! What about me. 65 with a full head of silver hair, neatly parted down the middle…

williebkind

May 29th, 2012
2:33 pm

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:31 pm
Now that is cute, that is a good retort.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:33 pm

I think we need to listen to “highly regarded” professors more. i mean they obviously know more about stuff then us.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
2:33 pm

JohnnyReb — “JHM – the only thing I’m ashamed of is trying to have an honest debate with you.”

You’re certainly not TRYING to have an honest debate with me if you’re making up opinions on internet articles and trying to attribute those opinions to me.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
2:34 pm

I just can’t figure out how increasing the income tax on some people, while about 47% of people do not pay anything and about 26% of those people actually get back more than they put in, where is the fairness. When did being successful make you an enemy of the state?

Because you are dishonest.

I’ll ask you one more time:

Who paid in more in federal income taxes over the past four years?
a) The high school teenager who made $3000 per year babysitting
b) Boeing, Verizon and Mattel combined? (Among MANY others)
c) 485,000 American households who earn $100,000 to $500,000.
d) 18,000 American households who make $500,000 or more

No wonder you shrink from the word justice like a vampire from daylight.

You Republicans have been poisoned and your spines have been broken. By yourselves…

Adam

May 29th, 2012
2:34 pm

Gordon: So what’s left? Decreased spending. Tying that to revenue increases is fine with me

I agree. But Republicans are too busy complaining about the debt when they can while also reneging on any promises to decrease it if it affects their plans to increase spending on the defense side. The Democrats have consistently said a mix of revenue increases and spending cuts are needed, and one offer was 15% revenue 85% cuts – still rejected. Some of the sacred cows were even in that.

I have looked at these fights and I can conclude safely that most Democrats are interested in actually tackling the problem, and most Republicans are more concerned with maintaining and gaining power.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
2:34 pm

“And how much have the austerity measure helped?”

It depends upon which country you’re talking about but austerity, just like ’stimulus spending” or any other economic policy, is not really going to work in the short run anyway if the whole continent is drifting towards recession as a result of the debt crisis to begin with. And as has been seen in the past under austerity it is designed to get worse before it gets better. You’re going to have to go through a great deal of short term pain similar to the 81-82 recession here in the U.S. before growth can resume again.

And for the record austerity in the European sense means a slashing of govt spending along with a steep increase in taxation which I’m not in agreement with. Even Keynesians economic philosophy is not in agreement with higher taxes during recessionary times so in that respect I do not agree with the particular austerity measures in place- only that they are going to have to gradually slash govt spending.

williebkind

May 29th, 2012
2:35 pm

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
2:31 pm
Well tweety bird that is the plan.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:36 pm

Mr. DeCarolis was considering firing their

Basketball Coach…….

Craig Robinson

after an 8 -11 start (2-5) in the Pac 10 conference).

When word reached Washington , Undersecretary of Education

Martha Kanter

was dispatched to Corvallis, WA with $17 million

in stimulus money for the university.

Thankfully,Craig Robinson’s job is safe for another year

Now comes the interesting part of our story….
For those of you unfamiliar with Coach Robinson,

he just so happens to be the brother in law of none other than our country’s beloved President Obama,

NOW YOU’RE CATCHING ON……

that’s right he is the brother of Michelle Robinson Obama!

But hey, can’t we all come to the conclusion that Coach Robinson’s job security was all just a coincidence?

I’m sure of it …. Aren’t You?

Thank Goodness For The Stimulus!!! Our tax dollars at work!!!!!

But $17 million for one job? I wonder what mine is worth?

HDB

May 29th, 2012
2:36 pm

williebkind

May 29th, 2012
2:10 pm

The question you SHOLD be asking is: When will conservatives WAKE UP and see that they were the ones that caused the credit DOWNGRADE by holding the debt limit hostage???

Chuck

May 29th, 2012
2:26 pm
” I just can’t figure out how increasing the income tax on some people, while about 47% of people do not pay anything and about 26% of those people actually get back more than they put in, where is the fairness.”

Question: Are you throwing darts at your beloved patron saint….Ronald Reagan?? It’s because of his passage of the EITC that many are getting back more than they were taxed….the fastest way out of poverty!! Being successful doesn’t make one an enemy of the state…but as Willie Sutton said for his reason that he robbed banks: “That’s where the money is!” Where do you think you’d get the money from…a poor person or a rich person?? A return to the Clinton tax rates is what many have asked for…and look how the eceonomy GREW!!!

Peadawg

May 29th, 2012
2:37 pm

“Peadawg

Thanks for making the point.”

Guess you ain’t got no linky. Considerig your (continued) dodge, I’ll accept your surrender.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
2:37 pm

JamVet,

I’ve never met a babysitter who voluntarily declared and paid taxes on their earnings. Perhaps they exist. I just never knew any.

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
2:37 pm

”Well tweety bird that is the plan.”

So, do you support the Ryan plan? It increases our national debt substantially and will require many debt increases…

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
2:38 pm

It just a recapitualion (sic) of the many absurd liberal proclamations. (Your spelling really is atrocious.)

And for the third time today I will ask you to explain yourself.

But you won’t.

Given that, how is it even possible to hold an intelligent conversation with you?

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:40 pm

When will we start listening to learned educators at fancy schools???!!!!

mm

May 29th, 2012
2:40 pm

“is it any wonder that leftists whine about republican unwillingness to share the blame for their lunatic policies?”

Classic denial Rags.

Common Sense isn't very Common

May 29th, 2012
2:40 pm

Normal

At least you are gray/silver

you aren’t hated as much :-)

East Lake Ira

May 29th, 2012
2:40 pm

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:33 pm
I think we need to listen to “highly regarded” professors more. i mean they obviously know more about stuff then us.

At least they can spell.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
2:40 pm

Doomy, not everyone is a Wall Street idolizing tax dodger.

The travesty of our tax system and gargantuan corporate welfare/socialism is not a secret.

Some just wish it were…

Chuck

May 29th, 2012
2:41 pm

Lord Help Us,

First thing you have lumped me in with a lot of Republicans and you want me to defend a Republican plan, I happen to think that the Republicans are as useless as the Democrats, so I am not a Republican. If you want my opinion on the Ryan Plan I will tell you. It was horrible, it barely cut anything, we need to SLASH the budget, not slow growth or symbolic cuts here or there. The one thing that I agree with Jay’s on in his original blog piece, this country is standing on an economic ledge and we need to be guided by logic, reason, and facts, not by party politics. Say what you want about Ryan’s plan, but at least he had one, the Senate has not put forth a budget in over 5 years, that is our tax dollars at work.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:41 pm

I know a good way to increase tax revenues…..drill here and drill now.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
2:41 pm

Gordon: Runaway spending is built into the budget. It increases 7% a year automatically.

If that’s true, then why hasn’t it increased 7% annually?

2009 = 3517.7 B
2010 = 3456.2 B
2011 = 3603.1 B

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:42 pm

And spelling is half the battle right Ira? BWAAHAHAA!

I think we should ship more guns to mexico and see if money comes back over the lines.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
2:43 pm

JamVet,

By the way I’m going with answer C on your quiz.

Even if the babysitter or the kid who cuts grass for $20 a yard declared their small earnings they would have little or zero tax liability so I don’t really care much that anyone with $3,000 doesn’t declare anyway. They should but in the great scheme of things its not that big a deal.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:44 pm

I think America is on the right path i mean Unemployment is coming down right?….right? I mean the job force is smaller but the main point is that unemployment is coming down. Can some of these fancy learned PHD types point this out to us????

williebkind

May 29th, 2012
2:44 pm

Jamvet:

You Progressive liberals have been deceived and your mines have been poisoned. By yourselves

There corrected the spelling. Good job!

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
2:44 pm

‘Say what you want about Ryan’s plan, but at least he had one, the Senate has not put forth a budget in over 5 years, that is our tax dollars at work.’

Thank you.

I detest the politics being played by the Dems re: the budget process. IMO they are playing poker trying to get the GOP to show their cards on what the Ryan Plan will cut so that they can play politics with the info.

On the other hand, the howls of anguish from the GOP about our debt while supporting a plan that will make it worse (and leaving out the details) is equally deplorable.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
2:45 pm

Gordon: Runaway spending is built into the budget. It increases 7% a year automatically.

If that’s true, then why hasn’t it increased 7% annually?

2009 = 3517.7 B
2010 = 3456.2 B
2011 = 3603.1 B

Adam,

Easy. Because we don’t have a TARP or 800 billion dollar stimulus every year.

Dave

May 29th, 2012
2:46 pm

Another loony left-wing columnist with no solutions, no plan to slow spending, no plan to curb our debt and skyrocketing deficit. Just bash, bash, bash the Republican party. Apparently Jay thinks money grows on trees or falls from the sky.

Obama is a communist and anyone who votes Democrat is a traitor to this nation.

See how easy that was? I didn’t have to prove a thing. Just like Jay Bookman.

williebkind

May 29th, 2012
2:47 pm

“Can some of these fancy learned PHD types point this out to us????”

Go for it JamVet! You are so informed.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
2:47 pm

Lord Help Us: Au contraire, maybe the SENATE hasn’t put forth a budget, but Obama and the House Democrats have put one forth every year. And whether or not it was voted up or down, or even put to a vote, doesn’t matter in the context of “at least they had a plan,” because they all did. Every side in these situations has had a plan.

Gordon

May 29th, 2012
2:47 pm

Adam,

The problem with the Democrats plan, at least the ones I’ve heard, is that they don’t cut spending enough, and they delay the spending cuts to a later time. I think it is unfair to say Republicans generally want to maintain power and Democrats generally want to solve the problem. Both want to position themselves so that they appear to want to solve the problem, especially to their base and independent voters.

I think the larger problem is this: Democratic supporters such as yourself view Republicans as the enemy to progress, and Republican supporters view Democrats as the enemy to progress. If you take a step back, you will see that incumbents are the problem and the voters on both sides need to unite to solve this problem. Maybe the way the Republicans are going about it is wrong, but it does seem reasonable to me to put a limit on federal spending at some point. If you can’t do that, how can you say you are serious about deficit reduction? And yes, if you aren’t willing to put revenue increases on the table, the same description applies.

We will never agree on everything, but at least we should agree that we are headed for a train wreck and this problem needs to be solved. If not, it won’t really matter which side you were on.

East Lake Ira

May 29th, 2012
2:47 pm

Ron – Your inability to use the English language correctly tells me you are not that smart. Your disdain for highly educated professors tells me you do not value education.

I can only hope you have yet to breed.

That is all.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

May 29th, 2012
2:47 pm

Peadawg

you cannot accept that which is not given.

I never offered a link. I commented on the lack of depth in your thinking. (As characterized by your 1:47 post)

I stand by that comment.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
2:48 pm

Thulsa: Easy. Because we don’t have a TARP or 800 billion dollar stimulus every year.

And that explains 3 years of data? Give me a break.

mm

May 29th, 2012
2:48 pm

“Well, the last stand off was the democrats fault, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they pull the same crap again.”

Classic denial Part II.

“but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents,”

Seriously, you are still spouting that lie?

What’s sad about you cons is you do not research anything. You just spout your talking points..

Chuck

May 29th, 2012
2:50 pm

HDB

For the last time I am NOT a Republican, is it so hard for people to believe that someone can think independant of a political party. I thought Reagan should have answered for selling weapons to a terror state Iran to illegally fund the Contra’s. If going after the “rich” people money was the answer then I would say O.K. make your arguement. However even President Obama says it is not about revenue but about fairness. If you truly believe that by taking more money from the rich, is really going to put more money in the pockets of the poor then you have more faith in our governement than I do. This is the same Government that declared a war on poverty in 1968 and after TRILLIONS of dollars spent, there are more people in poverty today than ever.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:50 pm

Wow! Ira is mad! Hilarious. I actually went to one of the greatest learning institutions in America and have an MBA from another. i can tell you that neithe rof those degrees learned me as much as real world work. What can I say say though. I guess I am just not as smart as a guy named Ira.

I do have kids much to your dismay. Two beautiful little boys who are already learning that self accountability is the tue answer to ones problems.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
2:50 pm

Dave — “I didn’t have to prove a thing. Just like Jay Bookman.”

Clearly, the fact that Jay writes *opinion* editorials has been lost on you.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
2:50 pm

Gordon: If you take a step back, you will see that incumbents are the problem and the voters on both sides need to unite to solve this problem. Maybe the way the Republicans are going about it is wrong, but it does seem reasonable to me to put a limit on federal spending at some point. If you can’t do that, how can you say you are serious about deficit reduction? And yes, if you aren’t willing to put revenue increases on the table, the same description applies.

From a step back it looks to me like a better faith effort is being presented by the Democrats, who put nearly all options on the table, if not all options, at various times that the issue has been brought up.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:51 pm

Until the country starts listening to educated minds like Sandra Fluke and Al Gore we are all doomed. We cowtail to uneducated rubes like Rush Limbaugh and the CEo of Apple (who went to putrid non Ivy League Auburn)!

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
2:52 pm

‘Lord Help Us: Au contraire’

Yea, but the Dems are playing politics with the budget process worse than the GOP.

This is a huge issue in this campaign and I believe the GOP is a step ahead of the Dems. The Ryan Plan with all its flaws is out there, with the support of the Congress, with the support of the GOP nominee… I do not see the equivalent on the Dem side (but will issue a mea culpa if shown otherwise).

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
2:52 pm

NOW YOU’RE CATCHING ON……

That “Ron Burgundy” copy/pastes crap that was debunked over two years ago on Snopes?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/oregonstate.asp

A clown filter, Jay. Is that asking so much?

mm

May 29th, 2012
2:52 pm

“Obama is a communist and anyone who votes Democrat is a traitor to this nation.

Wow, a deep thought from the right.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:52 pm

the dems have put all options on the table? How about actually proposing a budget for once in all the years they have had majority control?

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:53 pm

An atheist, a communist and a Kenyan all walked into a bar. the bartender says “What’ll it be Mr. president?”

Scooter

May 29th, 2012
2:54 pm

I would say enacting another entitlement program, without reforming the others, is economic sabotage.

Gordon

May 29th, 2012
2:54 pm

Adam@2:41,

Because lots of spending has been deferred until later years (Obamacare, for one example). Also, as the deficit continues to rise the interest on that debt continues to rise.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
2:54 pm

Adam,

What is your point? My point is that if there is a 7% automatic increase that even after accounting for that the deficit should be decreasing because the TARP and stimulus programs which I think happened in FY 2009 are no longer around going forward. Therefore you would think that deficits would be substantially smaller in years following the year in which TARP and stimulus counted. But they are not.

HDB

May 29th, 2012
2:54 pm

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:36 pm

SOURCE, please……you don’t even know where Corvallis IS! (Oregon, not Washongton State)….

Mick

May 29th, 2012
2:54 pm

chuck

I guess if you are neither dem or repub, then you just might be an Iino – independent in name only…

mm

May 29th, 2012
2:54 pm

“The Ryan Plan with all its flaws is out there, with the support of the Congress,”

Correction needed. Remove Congress, insert GOP.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
2:55 pm

Chuck If you truly believe that by taking more money from the rich, is really going to put more money in the pockets of the poor then you have more faith in our governement than I do

Exactly. That’s not the point. Obama and the Democrats were NEVER about redistributing wealth (this is basically what you are talking about here). They were about the rich paying fairer tax rates than they currently do. All told, many rich people pay less of a percentage of their income than do the middle class. There are some outliers but that is the trend. Fixing this particular problem will not be a magic bullet, but it is the right thing to do. Either that, or give more targeted cuts tot he middle class to make up for the difference. However, I oppose any new tax cuts because we have already cut our revenue to the bone.

Basically, taxing the rich more is about fair tax rates in a progressive tax system. And it is only a small piece of the puzzle when it comes to deficit reduction, which is why ANY plan that proposes raising taxes on the rich also comes with a number of other reforms designed to help close the deficit hole. See the latest House Democrat budget proposal.

mm

May 29th, 2012
2:55 pm

“because the TARP and stimulus programs which I think happened in FY 2009 are no longer around going forward”

The stimulus was a 3 year program.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
2:55 pm

Gordon: Because lots of spending has been deferred until later years (Obamacare, for one example). Also, as the deficit continues to rise the interest on that debt continues to rise.

But that still means that 7% figure isn’t as automatic as you said though, right?

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:56 pm

I think we need another trillion dollars of stimulus. Its obvious it was working until the money ran out.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
2:57 pm

Thulsa: What is your point? My point is that if there is a 7% automatic increase that even after accounting for that the deficit should be decreasing because the TARP and stimulus programs which I think happened in FY 2009 are no longer around going forward. Therefore you would think that deficits would be substantially smaller in years following the year in which TARP and stimulus counted. But they are not.

The figures I presented were federal dollars spent ONLY. They did not include revenue at all. Thus, any TARP receipts were not in those numbers.

Lord Help Us

May 29th, 2012
2:57 pm

‘Correction needed. Remove Congress, insert GOP.’

Noted…the house has voted (overwhelming, on a party-line basis) for the Ryan Plan, the Senate has not…

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
2:57 pm

Raising taxes has work for NYC. they have managed to loses millionaires in droves from their fair city. Much better off without those nasty rich people.

Butch Cassidy

May 29th, 2012
2:58 pm

Chuck – “so for you taxing the rich is not about the economy but about punishing the rich,”

If by punishing you mean raising my taxes to 39.5% then, then by all means, “punish” away. Hell, over the weekend in Vegas I must have tipped at least 2k between the dealer and the waitress, so you may as well call me a job creator too.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
2:59 pm

Ron: It would be better if you said: An atheist, a Christian, and a Muslim walk into a bar and the bartender says “What’ll it be Mr. President?”

Same punchline: A big spender, a fiscal conservative, a terrorist sympathizer, and a terrorist killer walk into a bar.

Recon 0311 2533

May 29th, 2012
2:59 pm

“And for what? Congressional Republicans got a budget-cutting agreement out of the standoff, but it’s a deal that they began to repudiate almost immediately after it was announced”

According to Boehner, Obama walked the agreement back and insisted on only tax increases after his left wing base went ballistic over possible adjustments to Medicare. So who do you believe? If you’re a conservative you’re going to place more credence on Boehners’s version of events. If you’re a left winger you’ll go with Jay’s version. Given our huge and ever growing deficit with the question of patriotism and destruction of the economy I don’t see how anyone can call themselves a patriot by minimizing the need for cost cutting and entitlement reform, while only demanding tax increases on the wealthy. Taxing the wealthy, programs that make more Americans dependent on the government and defense cuts is all the Democrats want to propose. That doesn’t sound patriotic to me.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:01 pm

Whats the difference between Disneys Simba and Obama?

One is an African Lion and the other is a lying African.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
3:01 pm

mm
May 29th, 2012
2:55 pm

The stimulus was a 3 year failure.

Typo correction on page 5 please. Doomy on it!

Mick

May 29th, 2012
3:01 pm

butch

Why are you so liberal about being taxed more? Could it be that 3 or 4 more points in taxes will barely put a dent in your mercedes or could it be that you are not a greedy self absorbed money grubber?

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
3:02 pm

There corrected the spelling.

And your grammar also languishes at the elementary school level.

But, it is all good, willie.

You have nothing of substance by reply, so you do all that you can do. (But you ain’t no army of one!)

Yet you have the temerity to ask questions of me though you NEVER answer any – in a cogent manner, if at all – when they are posed to you.

Three consecutive times I have asked you to do so and three consecutive times you have declined to explain yourself.

You don’t debate. You are not remotely interested in doing so. You do the blogging version of hide and seek.

And at this point in my life, I’m not into childhood games…

jm

May 29th, 2012
3:02 pm

Ron Burgundy 3:01 – sick lame pathetic

And also abuse of darn good name in your handle.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
3:02 pm

Gordon — “Maybe the way the Republicans are going about it is wrong, but it does seem reasonable to me to put a limit on federal spending at some point. If you can’t do that, how can you say you are serious about deficit reduction?”

I have proposed the following several times to conservative posters. Each time I’ve done it, the poster in question has responded to the effect of ‘it’s a good idea and I could get behind it, but it’ll never happen.’ See what you think of it.

Congress chooses a budget baseline. A given year’s budget could be used, perhaps with some tweaks and adjustment. Once approved via the Constitutional Amendment process, that budget becomes an absolute HARD CEILING on expenditures. Short of a national emergency or war, Congress is legally unable to authorize spending over the amounts listed in the budgets baseline. If the Federal Honeybee Program gets $80,000 a year, then it can’t have more at all. Period.

Spending can be *reduced permanently* in any given area and for any line item, but saved amounts DO NOT become eligible for spending elsewhere. So if the Federal Honeybee Program gets cut to $40,000, the National Unwashed Hippie Preserve can’t lay claim to that extra $40K the honeybees used to get. That excess money goes to service outstanding debt.

If revenues are increased by any means, the excess goes DIRECTLY to servicing outstanding debt.

So — we have here a suggestion that puts HARD LIMITS on spending, and prohibits spending increases. Congress can’t violate it short of a national emergency, declaration of war or re-amendment of the Constitution. We have the assurance that any increase in revenues will go to service outstanding debt, so we have part of what conservatives want (spending limits and cuts) and part of what liberals want (assurance that debt will be serviced) and a high hurdle that would have to be surmounted in order to violate the limits.

There might be some tweaks necessary in order to provide for emergency relief (perhaps the President is permitted to disburse funds from a National Emergency Fund for hurricane/tornado/flood/earthquake/etc. relief, but otherwise, no exception.

What do you think?

Chuck

May 29th, 2012
3:02 pm

Adam if you truely believe that the super rich that you are talking about will ever pay more then you have never read history, what will happen is that the super rich will send their lobbyist to Congress and remind them were they get their re-election funds from (both Dems and Repubs) and all of a sudden you will see a loop hole here and a loop hole there and then the only people paying more is guys like me, a small privately held business owner, who’s income is also his operating expense which has just decreased by 4 to 5 percent, all because I can’t afford a lobbyist.

The Truth

May 29th, 2012
3:02 pm

DawgDad

May 29th, 2012
2:20 pm

“Speak for yourself, “The Truth”. Half-truth doesn’t qualify as truth. Reagan had a Democrat Congress which heavily influenced spending (drove much of it), and yes, there was a different mind-set at the time regarding deficits prevailing in BOTH parties.”

Just because you Cons can’t see the truth if it slapped you in the face, doesn’t mean that what I stated isn’t true.

Your hero Ronald Reagan proposed massive deficit spending in HIS budget, not the Democrats’ budget because the budget is proposed by the PRESIDENT, so please do pee on me and tell me that it’s raining. (You guys blame Obama for not passing a budget, yet you blame Democrats for Reagan’s own deficit spending in his budget.) Not to mention the fiscal conservative patron saint Reagan was the one that said “Deficits don’t matter”. What utter hypocricy. Not to mention your hero Bush had two unfunded wars that were “off of the books” which didn’t count against his ridiculous deficit spending.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
3:03 pm

Ron Burgundy,

Damn those Obama jokes were funny. You’re quickly becoming the bane of the lib’s existence. keep em coming.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
3:03 pm

Thulsa: You and other conservatives have yet to explain to me how less than 100% success constitutes failure. No wonder you want to see his college record. One B anywhere in his history = FAILURE.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:03 pm

I think we should let the government handle as much of the GDP as possible. I mean hey….they have done a bang up job with Medicare and SS.

Lyndon Johnson would speak about how welfare would solve poverty creating a helping hand. Bang up job with that one as 49% of all American households have a member getting a “helping hand”.

How about another housing credit. Housing booms are always started by govt help.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
3:04 pm

Chuck: That may be so, but it’s an entirely different subject from discussing what the Democrats want to do versus what the Republicans want to do.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
3:04 pm

Well, it shore seems like this Ron Burgundy feller has done got it all figgured out. Waste in the stimulus, infantile jokes. Something tells me he cain’t explain why his party got the boot after their last guy was president.

TaxPayer

May 29th, 2012
3:05 pm

Have any of the Republicans discussed their party’s plans to actually reduce the debt. If so, which plan of theirs would that be.

jm

May 29th, 2012
3:06 pm

Blogs rip MSNBC’s Chris Hayes on ‘heroes’
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76799.html

“Why do I feel so uncomfortable about the word ‘hero’?” Hayes said. “I feel uncomfortable about the word hero because it seems to me that it is so rhetorically proximate to justifications for more war. Um, and, I don’t want to obviously desecrate or disrespect memory of anyone that’s fallen, and obviously there are individual circumstances in which there is genuine, tremendous heroism, you know, hail of gunfire, rescuing fellow soldiers and things like that. But it seems to me that we marshal this word in a way that is problematic. But maybe I’m wrong about that.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76799.html#ixzz1wHrjAB5p

Sick liberals.

Butch Cassidy

May 29th, 2012
3:07 pm

Mick – “butch

Why are you so liberal about being taxed more? Could it be that 3 or 4 more points in taxes will barely put a dent in your mercedes or could it be that you are not a greedy self absorbed money grubber?”

Yes on the first (if I drove a Mercedes). And yes on the second. Of course, I can still balance out what I pay on earned income against what I don’t pay on capitol gains. So in reality it’s just a wash. For some reason, people think that anyone with an accumulation of wealth only has a singular stream of income that is going to be hard hit by a whopping 3-4 point increase. I guess that’s where all the “punishing the rich” mantra comes from.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
3:07 pm

JHM: I think that’s a bit harsh. Plus I am not seeing where in this process there is an accounting for revenues that happen to be below those spending levels. Plus, I can see political football being played with line items – permanently dropped.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:07 pm

What do Obama and Osama have in common?
They both have friends who bombed the Pentagon.

John Birch

May 29th, 2012
3:08 pm

Obama begged for this mess by completely ignoring the recommendations of the Restoring America’s Future bi-partisan task force. And his administration and the Dem congress ran about $4.8T in deficits the last three years so someone has to try and stop the madness.

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

May 29th, 2012
3:08 pm

Jay – “Joseph, it’s my opinion that the modern Republican Party, as currently constituted, poses a real threat to my country, to my children’s future prosperity and to basic rules of logic and reason.”

I totally agree, I also happen to feel the same way about the Democratic Party.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:09 pm

The last president got the boot cause of the financial collapse centered around Fannie and Freddie. In 2004 Bush tried to push a financial reform bill geared towards cleaning up Freddie and Fannie but Dodd and Frank blocked. in 2009 Frank and Dood reformed the financial industry but carelessly ommitted Freddie and Fannie,

TaxPayer

May 29th, 2012
3:09 pm

They both have friends who bombed the Pentagon.

I think it’s a stretch to claim that President Obama considers the Bushes, Cheneys, et al, “friends”.

Mick

May 29th, 2012
3:10 pm

butch

Thanks…how was vegas? Are they starting to recover much?

Bill Ayers

May 29th, 2012
3:10 pm

I think Obama is doing a heckuva job. I couldn’t have done more damage to the pentagon if I had bombed it myself.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
3:10 pm

jm: I find this funny. You probably didn’t even know who Chris Hayes was before that.

You chickenhawks need to CALM THE F*** DOWN when someone suggests you are overplaying the “‘MERICKA F*** YEAH” card.

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
3:11 pm

Yeah, how dare Chris Hayes ask us to think about the meanings behind the words we use!

Sick bast@rd.

TaxPayer

May 29th, 2012
3:11 pm

Last I checked, Lehman brothers collapsed. AIG collapsed. Fannie and Freddie. Nope. No collapse.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
3:11 pm

Adam — “JHM: I think that’s a bit harsh. Plus I am not seeing where in this process there is an accounting for revenues that happen to be below those spending levels. Plus, I can see political football being played with line items – permanently dropped.”

I deliberately suggested something harsh to both sides — but which gave both sides something they wanted — as a means to stimulating discussion. Please, by all means, kick it around and see if you think there’s anything of value in the idea.

With respect to revenues possibly falling below expected levels — *that* is the incentive to cut spending and to increase revenues — to build surpluses into our budgets rather than deficits.

Butch Cassidy

May 29th, 2012
3:11 pm

Ron Burgundy – “The last president got the boot cause of the financial collapse centered around Fannie and Freddie.”

Actually the last president didn’t “get the boot”. He had served 2 terms and was ineligible to run for a third.

mm

May 29th, 2012
3:11 pm

“I don’t see how anyone can call themselves a patriot by minimizing the need for cost cutting and entitlement reform, while only demanding tax increases on the wealthy.”

Fact check. The dems have offered spending cuts with revenue increases. The cons own the one way street. They only want spending cuts.

“The stimulus was a 3 year failure”

It created over 2 million jobs, but you can call it whatever you want. Republican policies have been in place for 10 years and still have not created 2 million jobs.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
3:12 pm

Doomy, C is incorrect.

485,000 Americans made between $100,000 and $500,000 and paid ZERO in federal income taxes.

Thanks to our perverse and pernicious tax code…

Mick

May 29th, 2012
3:12 pm

ron

What a fraud, as if fannie and freddie were the only game in town…remember bush’s ownership society that pushed home ownership? Yes, you picked a good name, one that is associated with a dunce…

Hank Johnson

May 29th, 2012
3:12 pm

This talk of democratic house members not proposing a budget is ludicrous. I sat down with jon Lewis and Nancy Pelosi to propse a budget that not balanced our finanes but balanced Guam!

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
3:12 pm

“They both have friends who bombed the Pentagon.”

Ron, I thought a airplane hit the pentagon ‘though I ain’t never seen no picture of it hittin’ the pentagon, have you? Maybe you could post one for us.

Chuck

May 29th, 2012
3:13 pm

Adam
It doesn’t matter what either of them say they want to do, because the know the end result. Their big donors will not be effected but then they can say “see there we stuck it to them”. I have to live and operate in the real world, the problem with all politicans is they are always SAYING, that all they ever do. Almost none of the members of congress has ever had to build a business from the ground up, alot of them have never worked in the private sector where they actually have to make a profit to succeed.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
3:14 pm

Adam,

I would like to see his academic records and transcripts for a few reasons. No. 1 I would like to know how a guy got into 2 Ivy league schools with academics based upon what he wrote which is in his own words in his own book and I paraphrase ” my last 2 years of high school was a haze, I attended class sparingly, drank a lot of beer, and engaged in drugs enthusiastically”. How does that guy get into Columbia and Harvard Adam?

Secondly, I would like to know if he applied to get in as a Kenyan knowing full well that he is an American or if he applied as an American. That bio presented where it says he is a Kenyan indicates that while I believe he is an American that he may have applied as a Kenyan.

Thirdly I would like to know what he studied. How much economics, how much if any business courses, etc.

These are all fair, reasonable questions. If the Wash Post is going to go back 47 years to when romney was in high school then it only seems reasonable to query as to how O got into 2 Ivy league schools considering that in his own words he attended class sparingly in his last 2 years of high school all the way imbibing in alcohol and drugs- in his own words of course.

Skip

May 29th, 2012
3:14 pm

jm, I have the same problem with the everyone’s a hero line I’m also a lib. add in a Marine Sgt. and Viet Vet .How about you?

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:14 pm

Its unpatriotic to run up these types of deficits. Who said that?

As soon as more people leave the job force and unemployment gets down to a manageable number we will be fine.

TaxPayer

May 29th, 2012
3:15 pm

Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t trust the wisdom or patriotism of people who willing to risk the destruction of the economy to make a political point.

It’s not just you. More and more people are seeing through the GOP rhetoric to their true lack of character. Republicans are neither wise or patriotic. They care about themselves and they are willing to enrich themselves at anyone’s expense and by any means.

jm

May 29th, 2012
3:15 pm

Adam

I know exactly who the guy is: he’s the turkey I’ve seen on MSNBC that is either gay or acts incredibly effeminate.

I don’t care which. But you really should try something more substantive to try to defend your liberal co-conspirator dirtbags.

Of course, it is difficult to defend the defenseless. Like calling people who die serving their country non-heroes. Pathetic. U and Chris.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:15 pm

I have no problem with Obama smoking weed, but I do have a problem with him coining the phrase “intercepting” duirng a smoke session. thats justa dbag move.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
3:15 pm

collapse centered around Fannie and Freddie

Absolutely the least factual and stupidest thing posted today.

getalife

May 29th, 2012
3:16 pm

Stay the course on job creation.

Keep on rocking in the free world.

Peace and prosperity.

Butch Cassidy

May 29th, 2012
3:16 pm

MIck – “Thanks…how was vegas? Are they starting to recover much?”

Vegas was great, but it’s still not back up to the glory days when I used to go there in the 80’s, 90’s and early 2000’s. Back then all the tables were standing room only. Even with a Memorial Day weekend, there were a lot of dealers standing with empty tables, and the hotel bars were only about half full.

On the plus side, several of my friends that live out there were able to pick up houses for less than half of the original price. One girl I know was able to buy a home that originally sold for $700,000 for less than $250,000.

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

May 29th, 2012
3:17 pm

“Ron, I thought a airplane hit the pentagon ‘though I ain’t never seen no picture of it hittin’ the pentagon, have you? Maybe you could post one for us.”

I am in a great mood and ready for a belly laugh. Where did flight 77 go then?

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
3:17 pm

Absolutely the least factual and stupidest thing posted today.

Hmm.

Well, when one considers that it’s physically impossible to “center *around*” anything… ok.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
3:17 pm

Doomy: I’d like to know how Dubyer figgured out how to pour p*ss out of a boot.

jm

May 29th, 2012
3:18 pm

Skip 3:14 – I don’t care who or what you are.

I believe those who die serving our country are heroes of the highest order. If you don’t, so be it. Glad I don’t know you.

Recon 0311 2533

May 29th, 2012
3:18 pm

“Fact check. The dems have offered spending cuts with revenue increases. The cons own the one way street. They only want spending cuts.”

You get partial credit for the revenue increases, however, the Democrats want revenue increases only through increased taxes on wealthy Americans and not through tax reform as Republicans have proposed. As for spending cuts they’ve proposed nothing except cuts in defense spending. Hell they can’t even pass a budget.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
3:18 pm

JamVet,

Is that all earners that made between 100 and 500k or are you picking out specific earners who made that much? I thought you were talking about the entire group but then there would be a lot more people in that group who did in fact pay a lot of taxes. And I would assume the ones that had no tax liability probably did not due to legal loopholes or writeoffs for legitimate business investment. As several on here have said- Close the loopholes.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
3:18 pm

JHM: With respect to revenues possibly falling below expected levels — *that* is the incentive to cut spending and to increase revenues — to build surpluses into our budgets rather than deficits

I am surprised with such a massive control effort (Constitutional Amendment) that you would leave that particular part up to Congress. Especially considering that historically speaking, spending has always increased regardless of any increase or decrease in revenue.

n

May 29th, 2012
3:19 pm

Jay, you are breathing fire!
Keep speaking truth.
All honorable people must say & do what is necessary to stop the devolution of this country towards hate and anarchy at the hands of the far right.
The insane hatred of Obama has fueled a level of rage I have never seen before in American public discourse.
It is totally irrational and Obama doesn’t deserve it.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
3:19 pm

“Where did flight 77 go then?”

I could care less. Post a photograph of the airplane that struck the pentagon.

jm

May 29th, 2012
3:19 pm

CNN can have an “unsung heroes” series about some person who is doing a great thing like serving lunch to the poor.

But to a liberal, a guy who gives his life to defend his country is just another joe. This is truly sick.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
3:21 pm

Rather, post a photograph of the airplane that struck the pentagon actually striking the pentagon.

Peter

May 29th, 2012
3:21 pm

How stupid is this statement..Really Now !!!!!!

But to a liberal, a guy who gives his life to defend his country is just another joe. This is truly sick.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
3:21 pm

But to a liberal, a guy who gives his life to defend his country is just another joe

And where did he say that?

Thug

May 29th, 2012
3:21 pm

Dems don’t have any motivation to pay off debt.
Bookman you’re clueless.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:21 pm

CNN is a joke. Now that have Dbag Bourdain on that channel. I’ll stick with Fox and Paula Deen!

jm

May 29th, 2012
3:22 pm

And people wonder why military families overwhelmingly vote republican…..

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
3:22 pm

I like to dutch over myself….oops did I type that out loud?

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
3:22 pm

a guy who gives his life to defend his country is just another joe.

sigh.

jm, I suppose it’d be asking too much for you to stick to actually quoting Chris Hayes, and not making up imaginary sh-t about what you *think* he meant, right?

They BOTH spoke

May 29th, 2012
3:22 pm

“not through tax reform as Republicans have proposed”

True tax reform is not what Ryan has proposed……. Lowering the rate at the same time you take away deduction so the avg effective rate is a shell game

Adam

May 29th, 2012
3:22 pm

jm: I know exactly who the guy is: he’s the turkey I’ve seen on MSNBC that is either gay or acts incredibly effeminate.

I don’t care which

Well apparently it’s something you care enough about that it’s your first, primary, and/or only impression of him. Go on and tell me how it doesn’t matter, even though it’s ALL you have said about him so far aside from the one story you are now bellyaching about.

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

May 29th, 2012
3:23 pm

“I could care less”

You mean “I couldn’t care less”?

n

May 29th, 2012
3:23 pm

I got tanky on my panky!

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
3:24 pm

My boogies are full of protein!

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

May 29th, 2012
3:24 pm

Post me a picture of the bombs you claimed took down the WTC. I want to see a picture of the bombs not the building.

Back at ya! ;)

They BOTH spoke

May 29th, 2012
3:24 pm

excuse me

“….so the avg effective rate stays the same is a shell game”

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:24 pm

Steve – USA is smokin fools!

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
3:24 pm

“I like to dutch over myself….oops did I type that out loud?”

Jay, I don’t know what this incoherent name jacker is saying, but don’t you have rules about name jacking?

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:25 pm

Soothsayer mad…him not want to play anymore!

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
3:25 pm

Obviously, that post @ 3.24 is a namejacker.

Peter

May 29th, 2012
3:25 pm

Thug … WOW……… Dems don’t have any motivation to pay off debt.

Another off the wall statement from the GOP who believes deficits don’t matter….

How motivated was BUSH running UP the debt ?

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

May 29th, 2012
3:26 pm

Ban the name jacker! No exceptions.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:26 pm

Actually peter….Bushs main portion of debt came after 2006 when the dems toook over both houses.

n

May 29th, 2012
3:27 pm

Is that a threat?

Brosephus™ - Fact Assassin

May 29th, 2012
3:27 pm

112TH CONGRESS
1ST SESSION H. CON. RES. 34

a.k.a. “The Path to Prosperity”

3 SEC. 101. RECOMMENDED LEVELS AND AMOUNTS.
4 The following budgetary levels are appropriate for
5 each of fiscal years 2012 through 2021:
6 (1) FEDERAL REVENUES.—For purposes of the
7 enforcement of this resolution:
8 (A) The recommended levels of Federal
9 revenues are as follows:
10 Fiscal year 2012: $1,866,454,000,000.
11 Fiscal year 2013: $2,127,981,000,000.
12 Fiscal year 2014: $2,324,503,000,000.
13 Fiscal year 2015: $2,425,363,000,000.
14 Fiscal year 2016: $2,522,695,000,000.
15 Fiscal year 2017: $2,693,493,000,000.
16 Fiscal year 2018: $2,807,893,000,000.
17 Fiscal year 2019: $2,958,678,000,000.
18 Fiscal year 2020: $3,119,794,000,000.
19 Fiscal year 2021: $3,286,942,000,000.

8 (2) NEW BUDGET AUTHORITY.—For purposes
9 of the enforcement of this resolution, the appropriate
10 levels of total new budget authority are as follows:
11 Fiscal year 2012: $2,858,545,000,000.
12 Fiscal year 2013: $2,835,737,000,000.
13 Fiscal year 2014: $2,905,952,000,000.
14 Fiscal year 2015: $2,970,061,000,000.
15 Fiscal year 2016: $3,114,578,000,000.
16 Fiscal year 2017: $3,224,937,000,000.
17 Fiscal year 2018: $3,330,942,000,000.
18 Fiscal year 2019: $3,490,088,000,000.
19 Fiscal year 2020: $3,639,728,000,000.
20 Fiscal year 2021: $3,767,274,000,000.

22 (5) DEBT SUBJECT TO LIMIT.—Pursuant to
23 section 301(a)(5) of the Congressional Budget Act
24 of 1974, the appropriate levels of the public debt are
25 as follows:
1 Fiscal year 2012: $16,204,000,000,000.
2 Fiscal year 2013: $17,177,000,000,000.
3 Fiscal year 2014: $17,951,000,000,000.
4 Fiscal year 2015: $18,697,000,000,000.
5 Fiscal year 2016: $19,503,000,000,000.
6 Fiscal year 2017: $20,245,000,000,000.
7 Fiscal year 2018: $20,968,000,000,000.
8 Fiscal year 2019: $21,699,000,000,000.
9 Fiscal year 2020: $22,408,000,000,000.
10 Fiscal year 2021: $23,102,000,000,000.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hconres34eh/pdf/BILLS-112hconres34eh.pdf

This is the Budget resolution that the GOP all supported. As you see by the levels written into the legislation, the GOP agrees that revenues need to be increased, budget amounts will still increase above and beyond the $3 Trillion limit, and the debt limit will need to exceed $23 Trillion at some point. If they all agree to those things, regardless to what the ideological twist is, why in the hell did we have a fiasco of an issue with the debt limit last year, and why should we have one now?

Do both parties not agree to the same thing in principle, increased revenues and spending cuts? Why be such an ass about the whole thing if you agree and have voted in the affirmative that you agree? That leads thinking people to the idea that it’s all about sabotage and that many within the GOP ranks don’t give a rat’s ass about the country itself, regardless to the bile they spew on tv.

Peter

May 29th, 2012
3:27 pm

Really ?????? And people wonder why military families overwhelmingly vote republican…..

Do you have a way to prove that ? I guess they like having their kids and dad’s killed in useless wars like in Iraq ?

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
3:28 pm

“The insane hatred of Obama has fueled a level of rage I have never seen before in American public discourse.”

Thank God you recovered from that 8 year coma from 2001-2008.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:28 pm

I know a way to reduce unnecessary spending by a billion dollars….get rid of NPR.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
3:29 pm

SfD — “Yeah, how dare Chris Hayes ask us to think about the meanings behind the words we use!”

Most regulars here know that I’m a (disabled) veteran, and I don’t see a problem with what Hayes said. Being killed in the service of one’s country is certainly noble, but not *automatically* heroic IMO. There are many ways a young troop could die in the line of duty that aren’t necessarily heroic — stepping on a mine, being the unlucky first choice of an enemy sniper, or simply raising one’s head at the wrong moment. Serving in a combat theater is noble and brave, but again, not automatically heroic.

A troop who is killed in the performance of a heroic act would usually (though not always) be recognized with a posthumous decoration of some sort; Bronze Star, Silver Star, Distinguished Service Cross or even the Blue Max — the Congressional Medal of Honor. But again, not all who fall in the line of duty did so as the result of acts of *heroism.*

Heroes perform acts of gallantry and intrepidity on the battlefield — the Naval corpsman who drags his fallen Marines out of the line of fire at the risk of his own life; the Air Force helo pilot who risks direct fire to pull a squad of infantry out before they’re overrun; the Marine who charges a machine-gun nest and silences its fire or the Army soldier who successfully repels a wave of attackers despite being outnumbered and outgunned. Any of these troops could reasonably be called a hero, but IMO, heroism does not automatically attach simply due to one’s death in combat.

I’m not denigrating or impugning anyone’s service, and certainly not the service of my brothers and sisters in arms who didn’t come home alive. I recognize and honor their service and their sacrifice, and I thank them from the bottom of my heart for both. However, we must, I think, also recognize that heroism is a *rare* quality, not exhibited by every man or woman, or indeed by every soldier, sailor, airman or Marine.

Some heroes live through their heroic acts and some do not. But I don’t think that *all* troops who are killed in the line of duty were automatically heroic.

Peter

May 29th, 2012
3:29 pm

Go Ron Burgundy .. he never wanted the War in Iraq ? Sure that was the case…. maybe we had to bail out the corporate world to save America after his fiasco ?

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:29 pm

Good one Tulsa. Bush was degraded mercilessly for 8 years.

Oscar

May 29th, 2012
3:29 pm

The most important matter for the GOP is to defeat Obama. They are willing to destroy the country if necessary to do it. And for a lot of them, dismantling the government is second in priority. Ahead of national interest, national security or anything else. People like that are incredibility dangerous to out country.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
3:29 pm

stands, I guess this guy fancies himself a parodist (is that a real word?) along the lines of BADA or redneck.

But this persona is pitiful with a capital P!

Doomy, I am certain that there are more than 485,000 American households that make between $100,000 and $500,000.

My point is simple.

All of this right wing bellyaching about the dirt poor shleps in this country paying nothing in, via federal income taxes, to Uncle Sam in any given year is horrifically misguided.

Blood from a turnip, anyone?

But for virtually the entire GOP to turn a blind eye to the fabulously wealthy doing so in any given year is beyond nauseating.

And doubly pukeafying (made up word) when you consider that these rubes actually extol these tax avoiding rich people/mooches for being “Smart enough to not pay anything more than they have to!”

Apparently given the neocon model, the adage about “standing on your own two feet” does not apply to the very rich or to the insanely profitable corporations.

Because, don’t forget, per the presumptive Republican candidate…

Corporations are people, my friend.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
3:29 pm

How does that guy get into Columbia and Harvard Adam?

Yeah! How DID he get in. Also, how did he get a magna cum laude? He must have just taken the Affirmative Action courses, right? I mean, they must have “special” classes for people who get in the way HE got in… Otherwise he never would have graduated with high marks!

I mean, this is the implication you give when you make such arguments. There is no point to looking at his college records. Anything you find there will be twisted in whatever way you need to in order to make it seem like something is wrong.

I’ll tell you how one gets through college when one drinks and smokes: They are f***ing smart, and don’t require studying as hard as the average student, etc etc. You know the type. It amazes me that you conveniently forget such people exist when it comes to our President.

These are all fair, reasonable questions

No, they’re not, and the fact that you THINK the are reveals your prejudiced nature towards this man in particular. Whatever your reason is, you THINK and FEEL something must be wrong with him, and you’r back-justifying it any way you can.

n

May 29th, 2012
3:30 pm

Name-jacking is rampant today

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:31 pm

The funniest thing is how these people who have supposedly been name jacked need to state that it was not them but a name jacker.

“Just want to clarify to everyone that I did not write that i like to give myself dutch ovens. Nothing to see here.”

Moderate Line

May 29th, 2012
3:31 pm

Jay

May 29th, 2012
1:02 pm
Joseph, it’s my opinion that the modern Republican Party, as currently constituted, poses a real threat to my country, to my children’s future prosperity and to basic rules of logic and reason.

And like it or not, I will continue to point out evidence for why those statements are true.
+++++
Obama basically attacks Bain after accepting $14 million from the Security and Investment Industry plus someone from Bain is a bundler who has raised over $1 million. Is this logical or reasonable?(Open Secrets.org) Also, Obama himself along with many other Democrats did the same thing under the Bush administration.
The real threat to this country is people who demonize people they disagree with. I am confident that there are more and more people on both sides who see the world the same way. In Europe today where we see countries on the brink of defaulting is it the countries which have the philosophy of the Democrats or the Republicans who have their prosperity threaten.
The main problem in this country is how people make excuses for those of their own party while demonizing the other party.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
3:32 pm

Adam — “Especially considering that historically speaking, spending has always increased regardless of any increase or decrease in revenue.”

Which is why I proposed *halting* all spending increases via Constitutional amendment.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
3:32 pm

For josef:

“Two old Jewish men, Sid and Al, are sitting in a Mexican restaurant in Los Angeles .
One day Sid asks Al, “Do you know of any people of our faith born and raised in Mexico ?”
Al replies, “I don’t know, let’s ask our waiter.”
When the waiter arrives, Al asks, “Are there any Mexican Jews?”
The waiter says, “I don’t know, Senor. I ask the cook.” He returns from the kitchen
a few minutes later and says, “No, Senor, the cook say no Mexican Jews.”
Al isn’t satisfied and asks, “Are you absolutely sure?”
The waiter, realizing he is dealing with ‘Gringos,’ replies, “I check once again, Senor.”
While the waiter is away, Sid says, “I find it hard to believe that there are no Jews in Mexico . Our people are scattered everywhere.
The waiter returns and says, “Senor, the head cook say there is no Mexican Jews.”
Al asks, “Are you certain? I just can’t believe there are no Mexican Jews.”
The exasperated waiter says,

“Senor, I ask EVERYONE.
All we have is Orange Jews,
Grape Jews,
Prune Jews and
Tomato Jews.”

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
3:32 pm

Bush was degraded mercilessly a colossal screw up of the highest order for 8 years. INFINITELY worse than Obama. (Who ain’t very damn good!)

Though you apologists try constantly, there is NO rug big enough in this entire country, for you enablers to sweep his record under.

Admit that and move on.

Recon 0311 2533

May 29th, 2012
3:32 pm

“Lowering the rate at the same time you take away deduction so the avg effective rate is a shell game”

How is reducing rates while eliminating some deductions and loop holes a shell game? We need to get more people back on the tax roles and BTW…what have the Democrats proposed besides higher taxes on a small selected group of taxpayers? It’s been proven that approach won’t accomplish anything in reducing our deficit.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:33 pm

The most important thing for cons is getting fiscal house in order, becoming energy independent, growing our private sector and getting people off welfare…..so i guess ou are right Oscar. Getting rid of Obama is the most important thing to us.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
3:33 pm

JHM: I’m not denigrating or impugning anyone’s service,

Well jm will undoubtedly disagree because EVERYONE WHO SERVES IS A GD HERO

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
3:34 pm

Adam:

I don’t care “how” he got in or “what” his grades were.

I just want to know if he registered as a U.S. citizen (which he was) or as a “foreign student” !

But …………….. those records are sealed.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
3:35 pm

JHM: Which is why I proposed *halting* all spending increases via Constitutional amendment.

I still don’t see how that automatically causes Congress to want to increase revenue. In fact I could see cases being made for EVEN MORE tax cuts because “hey we’re not spending as much as before!”

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:35 pm

I just like how obama has taken a stance for women everywhere like he did for Sandra Fluke. Of course Palin is not included since she is a public figure so he does not have to return the million to Bill Maher.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
3:35 pm

Scout: But …………….. those records are sealed.

I don’t suppose your own records are something anyone can go get without asking you first eh?

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:36 pm

“Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t trust the wisdom or patriotism of people who willing to risk the destruction of the economy to make a political point.”

Speaking of grammar lessons….Jay you need to correct this sentence.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
3:36 pm

“The most important thing for cons is getting fiscal house in order, becoming energy independent, growing our private sector and getting people off welfare”

Yet, your president doubled the national debt in just 8 years, fought tooth and nail any and every policy that would lead the country to energy independence, and put millions and millions our of work.

You’re right, Ron Burgundy, that’s what we need.

in other words

May 29th, 2012
3:37 pm

“Joseph, it’s my opinion that the modern Republican Party, as currently constituted, poses a real threat to my country, to my children’s future prosperity and to basic rules of logic and reason.”

The ONLY thing that poses a threat to your children are useless degrees in poetry writing. Bookman, this is even a new low for you, troglodyte.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
3:37 pm

Adam — “Well jm will undoubtedly disagree because EVERYONE WHO SERVES IS A GD HERO”

Yes, well, I think that definition is fungible on the Right, because some bonehead on the Marietta Square once decided to berate me and scream that I “ain’t no vet’ran no moar” because I had a Veterans for Kerry bumpersticker on my car.

I guess that means that soldiers who vote Democratic and who are KIA aren’t heroes, either, and their families can’t collect on their SGLI policies. :roll:

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
3:38 pm

Headline: “Escape From New York? High-Taxing Empire State Loses 3.4 Million Residents in 10 Years”

“(CNSNews.com) – New York State accounted for the biggest migration exodus of any state in the nation between 2000 and 2010, with 3.4 million residents leaving over that period, according to the Tax Foundation.

Over that decade the state gained 2.1 million, so net migration amounted to 1.3 million, representing a loss of $45.6 billion in income.”

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/escape-new-york-high-taxing-empire-state-loses-34-million-residents-10-years

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
3:38 pm

Well, it sure looks like Ron Burgundy is giving us a Fright-Wing talking point “dump” today. What will he bring up next?

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:39 pm

Barack Obama was seated next to a little girl on an airplane trip back to Washington. He turned to her and said, “Let’s talk. I’ve heard that flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger.”

The little girl, who had just opened her book, closed it slowly and said to The Obama, “What would you like to talk about?”

“Oh, I don’t know,” said the Obama. “How about What Changes I Should Make To America?” and he smiles.

“OK,” she says. “That could be an interesting topic. But let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff – grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, and a horse produces clumps of dried grass. Why do you suppose that is?”

Obama, visibly surprised by the little girl’s intelligence, thinks about it for a second and finally says, “Hmmm, I have no idea.”

To which the little girl replies, “Do you really feel qualified to change America when you don’t know crap?”

They BOTH spoke

May 29th, 2012
3:39 pm

Recon

Have you looked at Ryan’s proposed budget. What I said is exactly what he is proposing. It does nothing for tax reform.

I say gradually phase back in the rates that were in place before the current ones and I wouldn’t be opposed to some sort of change to the EITC either. Those two things would increase the percentage of those not paying Federal Income taxes.

To me that is better than saying hey I have a great plan, we will reduce deductions and reduce the rate………… that is a shell game

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
3:39 pm

Adam — “I still don’t see how that automatically causes Congress to want to increase revenue. In fact I could see cases being made for EVEN MORE tax cuts because “hey we’re not spending as much as before!”

Shrug. Feel free to suggest a mechanism to accomplish that, then.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
3:39 pm

Adam:

I’m not running for president.

The public has a right to know.

If I have heart trouble that’s my business.

If I’m running for president, the public has the right to know.

Etc., etc., etc.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
3:40 pm

OH! HAHAHAHAHA! Another infantile joke from Ron Burgundy!

josef

May 29th, 2012
3:40 pm

Well, I see that the thread topic which I know nothing about has about been worn thin and the name calling and personal character assassination has begun. Now, that’s something I do know something about.

So, who is this Ron? He’s got the Imam’s boxers in a wad, so he must be all right.

And I see those who think a piece of paper purchased at X amount of the coin of the realm and Y number of hours listening to some pompous fool prattle on about some arcane subject then a few pages of paper parroting it back means that the individual actually knows something of any practical value…

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
3:41 pm

To your point, JHM, there is absolutely no denying that for many, many of these neocons and swiftboating pieces of ____, the slogan should be:

Support the Wars. And the Troops. (If they are Republicans.)

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
3:41 pm

“They are f***ing smart, and don’t require studying as hard as the average student,”

Yes. Of course. Because a guy who is so much smarter than everyone else can just float right on through he so smart. The same guy who thinks Austrian speak Austrian and who doesn’t even know how to pronounce Navy corpsman. Yep. He’s a real fart smucker he is.

These are all fair, reasonable questions- Doomy

No, they’re not, and the fact that you THINK the are reveals your prejudiced nature towards this man in particular. – Adam

Really Adam? So asking about his grades just like we asked about W’s grades, Kerry’s grades, Gore’s grades, is all cool but asking about O’s grades is out of bounds? Why or how is it not fair? Oh. Cause Adam in his crybaby hissyfit says it aint.

Oscar

May 29th, 2012
3:41 pm

The most important thing for cons is getting fiscal house in order, becoming energy independent, growing our private sector and getting people off welfare”

—————-

Those things are important, and I agree with them. But, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about achieving those goals. Using the debt ceiling as a ploy is not the right way. That tactic does more harm than good.
Not doing harm should be the most important. Not causing harm to achieve a short term goal.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:41 pm

Soothsayer….by fighting tooth and nail to get us on energy dpeendence do you mean like reducing oil leases to a record low, giving brasil oil leases and continuing to tell people to pump up their tires?

As for doubling the national debt I guess its kind of not hard when there was no debt before he took office….thsanks to the repubs in congress who actually passed budgets back then.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
3:41 pm

0311 — “The public has a right to know.”

I’m not trying to be combative here, but were you singing the same tune when people were asking questions about Mr. Bush’s military service records?

They BOTH spoke

May 29th, 2012
3:44 pm

Recon

And I am for spending cuts across the board, not just were it fits in with my political views.

We can argue how much, etc, but I think that the WH and Congress need to come to some sort of agreement that produces cuts in ALL areas

josef

May 29th, 2012
3:44 pm

ADAM

I daresay Scout has turned his transcripts over for perusal by his employers. I’m not about to hire a teacher whose transcripts I’ve not gone over with a fine toothed comb and I don’t cotton to the idea of hiring a Chief Executive whose transcripts are not available. It’s not kosher.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
3:44 pm

Hysterical.

The Trump led birther idiots – and I do mean idiots – now want to double down on the stupid by demanding Barry’s college transcripts?

Don’t you guys ever tired of humiliating yourselves in public?

And what is it with you and people’s “papers”?

Is this your version of trying to bring back 1937 Germany?

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

May 29th, 2012
3:44 pm

Saying Veterans are not necessarily heroes is like saying some babies are ugly. Perhaps you’re right but what do you hope to gain?

There is an abuse of the term “hero”. If anyone deserves it, I am perfectly happy with calling Men and Woman who leave their homes and join the military heroes.

Including JamVet and Joe Hussein Mama.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:44 pm

I dont need to know about Obamas records that are sealed. I have seen enough the past three years. But he did kill Osama….no help from the CIA interrogation methods that led to the intl. Obama said “kill Osama” and it was done.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
3:44 pm

Ron Burgundy: did they just give you your meds there at the “institution?” You’re becoming less coherent with every post. Take, for instance, your last post.

Recon 0311 2533

May 29th, 2012
3:45 pm

They BOTH spoke,

Okay, but I ask again what are the Democrats proposing?

Michelle Obama's Rear End

May 29th, 2012
3:46 pm

I think the biggest tragedy is amongst all this vitrol not one word has been spoken about the terrible diets of our youths. Do we want kids to have arses like me?

Brosephus™ - Fact Assassin

May 29th, 2012
3:46 pm

They BOTH

I left a link to a pdf file for the GOP 2012 legislation. Going back to the 2000 rates would put more people on the tax rolls as Bush’s cuts took the percentage of people with zero liability from the low to mid 30% range to where it is now.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
3:46 pm

Thulsa: Yes. Of course. Because a guy who is so much smarter than everyone else can just float right on through he so smart. The same guy who thinks Austrian speak Austrian and who doesn’t even know how to pronounce Navy corpsman. Yep. He’s a real fart smucker he is.

I know you think yourself smart. Have you ever, and I mean EVER made a mistake in speech? Been wrong about anything? If you really think the answer to those questions is no then I have news for you – you’re not as smart as you think you are. Everyone makes mistakes, and no one peron knows everything. However, some people are really smart when it comes to school and they DO sail right on through. Your contention seems to be this is impossible, or at least completely impossible when it comes to Obama.

Really Adam? So asking about his grades just like we asked about W’s grades, Kerry’s grades, Gore’s grades, is all cool but asking about O’s grades is out of bounds?

Who asked for the grades of Gore or Kerry? I know people examined Bush’s grades once upon a time but I can’t remember asking for them or letting that affect my voting decision.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
3:46 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
May 29th, 2012
3:38 pm

Headline: “Escape From New York? High-Taxing Empire State Loses 3.4 Million Residents in 10 Years”

Scout,

One of the greatest indicators of a state’s economic health is how many people are coming and or going. Bottom line is folks vote with their feet. And that census trend of people voting with their feet shows red states generally gaining populations while blue states are bleeding populations. Just another uncomfortable truth for the Dems.

mm

May 29th, 2012
3:46 pm

“Hell they can’t even pass a budget.”

When you morons stop this lie?

“We need to get more people back on the tax roles and BTW…”

I know it would kill a con to actually research something and find that it doesn’t fit your ideology, but the truth is that both Reagan and one of the Bushies increased the number of people that could claim the EIC, thus reducing or eliminating their tax liability.

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
3:47 pm

I ask again what are the Democrats proposing?

this, as I’ve posted time and again…

http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=70

It’s not my fault that the so called librul media ignore it.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
3:48 pm

Steve — “Perhaps you’re right but what do you hope to gain?”

Nothing. I just don’t think that Chris Hayes is “sick” for saying so, as at least one poster has stated.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
3:48 pm

If I didn’t know better, I’d swear ol’ Ron Burgundy is none other than our ol’ friend Little Davy Crybaby. He must have gotten himself a new computer and a new internet service. Something tells me he won’t be long on this blog before he’s banned again.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
3:48 pm

“Everyone makes mistakes, and no one peron knows everything.’

I dunno Adam. You almost had me convinced of your omniscience.

Oscar

May 29th, 2012
3:48 pm

And I am for spending cuts across the board, not just were it fits in with my political views

________

Most areas need some cuts. However, there are some that need increases. Border partol for one. Just a knee jerk cut of everrything is not reasonable and not good.
The major cuts will have to come from defense, medicare and social security. That’s where the money is going. Just look at the budget.
And taxes on people making over one million a year should be raised.

Ron Burgundy

May 29th, 2012
3:49 pm

Obama is demanding that Congress give him another trillion dollar spending bill. Most of it is just for gas money.
here.

But but but Bush is getting rich off high gas prices!

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
3:49 pm

“INEPTOCRACY”

“The system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society less likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.”

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
3:50 pm

Doom — “And that census trend of people voting with their feet shows red states generally gaining populations while blue states are bleeding populations. Just another uncomfortable truth for the Dems.”

You seem to think that blue voters are departing these blue states and then adopting the prevailing voting habits of their new states of residence. Is that the case?

Moderate Line

May 29th, 2012
3:51 pm

Jay

May 29th, 2012
1:02 pm
Joseph, it’s my opinion that the modern Republican Party, as currently constituted, poses a real threat to my country, to my children’s future prosperity and to basic rules of logic and reason.

And like it or not, I will continue to point out evidence for why those statements are true.
++++++++++
In 2002 CRS, July 20: The Treasury reduced federal debt held by these government accounts by replacing it with non-interest-bearing, non-debt instruments, which enables it to issue new debt to meet the government’s obligations. The Treasury claimed these extraordinary actions would suffice, at the latest, through June 28, 2002. Without a debt limit increase by that date, the Treasury indicated it would need to take other actions to avoid breaching the ceiling. By June 21, the Treasury had postponed a regular securities auction, but took no other actions. With large payments and other obligations due at the end of June and at the beginning of July, the Treasury stated it would soon exhaust all options to issue debt and fulfill government obligations, putting the government on the verge of default.

In 2003, the Treasury used similar accounting maneuvers to again hold the debt limit within just millions of dollars of hitting the debt ceiling, while Congress debated raising the limit. Congress finally sent a bill increasing the limit to $7.384 trillion for Bush’s signature in late May, nearly five months after Treasury first began issuing warnings of default. And in 2004, Congress didn’t reach an agreement on raising the debt ceiling until November 18, around the time that the Treasury said it would once again have exhausted all of its options to avoid default.

Why is this a threat to our prosperity, logic and reason now but not then. Now, I completely disagree with what the Republicans are doing but this has occurred over and over.

The more partisan the person talking the less I take them seriously. They become what they criticize a threat, illogical and unreasonable.
http://factcheck.org/2011/07/default-danger-revisited/

mm

May 29th, 2012
3:52 pm

Ron Burgundy – Master Spammer

Jay

May 29th, 2012
3:52 pm

Ron Burgundy was the repeat namejacker.

Note the tense.

He can return tomorrow if he wishes, with the understanding that the next time will be the last time.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
3:52 pm

Joe Hussein Mama:

Regarding Bush (or anyone else) I have always said, “Let the chips fall …………” !

His Air Force Reserve question was never settled one way or the other in spite of Dan Rather’s attempt (which ended his career) to provide false documentation just days before the election.

Matti

May 29th, 2012
3:52 pm

Joe Mama,

Maybe those veterans had fought for, (and their buddies had died for) your right to see the world exactly as they do?

Personally, I think everyone involved with military decisions, operations, or appropriating the massive, world’s-biggest defense budget needs to be more clear and up-front about what exactly it is that they’re fighting for with my tax dollars. Dudes, don’t TEASE me with this stuff about fighting for my freedoms while the buzzards in the Ga legislature are legislating them away. “It ain’t meeeeee… It ain’t meeeeee… I ain’t no Senator’s son, yeah.”

Adam

May 29th, 2012
3:52 pm

Thulsa: I dunno Adam. You almost had me convinced of your omniscience.

Likewise.

Oscar

May 29th, 2012
3:53 pm

You seem to think that blue voters are departing these blue states and then adopting the prevailing voting habits of their new states of residence. Is that the case?

___________

I don’t know about voting habits, but I would like to see new people moving here take up some or our other habits and behaviors and leave their bad ones at home.

n

May 29th, 2012
3:53 pm

Blog monitoring system is apparently down

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
3:54 pm

josef:

…………….. and I was required to pass a Top Secret background investigation with an annual five year update.

I expect no less from a president.

Those admission records from Harvard and Columbia need to be unsealed !

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

May 29th, 2012
3:54 pm

Name jacking is not cool Mr. Burgundy. We need to know which posts to read and not read.

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
3:54 pm

Recon

Obama’s plan was laughed down Pennsylvania Ave by both Republicans and Democrats. So a proposal has been made. I would say Republicans in general do not want any tax hikes. Dems probably in some combination do not want any hikes going into an election so they played politics while others didn’t like the cuts.

Outside of that my opinion is just that, mine. I don’t speak for DC.

Since Obama and Ryan have both put up proposals as political tools (Neither thought their plan was going to garner any real traction) to use against the other, now it is time for them to come to a resolution……… but I am not holding my breath

n

May 29th, 2012
3:55 pm

I stand corrected

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
3:56 pm

TD @ 3:48

Now that was funny

hahahahaha

:-)

mm

May 29th, 2012
3:57 pm

“Those admission records from Harvard and Columbia need to be unsealed !”

Again, the cons will do anything to divert attention away froms the Jobs, Jobs, Jobs they haven’t created as promised in 2010.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
3:58 pm

More “Hope and Change” for you !

Headline: “Consumer confidence plunges in May”

“NEW YORK (AP) — Americans’ confidence in the economy in May had its biggest drop in eight months as consumers fretted about slow hiring, a big stock market drop and the global economy, says a private research group.”

http://news.yahoo.com/consumer-confidence-plunges-may-140420807–finance.html

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
3:58 pm

Damn, I must be slipping.

I didn’t even get namejacked by that troll…

Forget the Big Tent.

Today’s GOP “is more like a private club. And there is a guard at the door.”

Some Republitwits in Texas went the Bash the Latino route. One problem, he’s a Cuban American. But I guess that is brown enough!

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/29/opinion/navarrette-gop-latinos-texas/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
3:59 pm

“The Democratic candidate for president, Mr. Kerry had previously declined to release his college transcript, which was included in his Navy records. He gave the Navy permission to release the documents last month, The Globe reported”

He eventually released I suspect under pressure. Like W he was just a C student. W’s sat scores for getting into college were also revealed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/08/politics/08kerry.html

Gore’s sat scores were also published and I assume his grades as well.

So in lieu of these facts I patiently await your explanation as to how and why was acceptable for W, Gore, and Kerry to release transcripts of grades and sat scores but how it is suddenly unfair and allegedly racist as you implied to ask Obama to do the same. Explain this unfairness given the FACTS sir. This should be interesting.

Paul

May 29th, 2012
3:59 pm

Scout – Thulsa

“Bottom line is folks vote with their feet. And that census trend of people voting with their feet shows red states generally gaining populations while blue states are bleeding populations. Just another uncomfortable truth for the Dems.”

Do you happen to have any cites that the reason most leave is because of taxes? Think it might have anything to do with the graying population and people retiring and moving to warm climates, as they are no longer too keen on shoveling snow?

josef

May 29th, 2012
4:00 pm

“Everyone makes mistakes, and no one peron knows everything.’

But I betcha Evita does… :-)

***********

IMAM
But some of us can still engage ourselves in dialogue under different handles… ? But namejacking, imaou, IS one calling for more than just a temporary fatwah…

Paul

May 29th, 2012
4:01 pm

Got back from my trip and gas was down again.

What is it cons and Fox say? Oh yeah: “Thanks, President Obama!”

He makes gas prices go up, he makes gas prices go down. He’s one talented guy.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
4:01 pm

Dick Cheney rules!!!

Well I wouldn’t want you to feel all bad about not being namejacked. Doomy.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
4:01 pm

mm: Again, the cons will do anything to divert attention away froms the Jobs, Jobs, Jobs they haven’t created as promised in 2010.

Jobs have been created. So I am surprised they have not tried to spin that positive message in their favor, instead preferring to pretend there are no jobs still.

Gordon

May 29th, 2012
4:02 pm

JHM@3:02,

Sounds reasonable at first glance. The only caution I can see is that the definition of “national emergency” would need to be defined. Politicians have a way of saying just about anything is an emergency if it suits their needs.

Recon 0311 2533

May 29th, 2012
4:03 pm

It appears that some of the reality challenged lib’s on here don’t seem to understand that Obama isn’t running against Bush or Ronald Reagan he’ll be running to get a second presidential term against Romney as his challenger. That means that he’ll need to run on his own record and not run from it by campaigning against previous Republican administrations. Remember that the blame Bush strategy ended in a ’shellacking” for Democrats in 010. Of course they say that the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing thinking that doing the same thing will achieve different results.

Common Sense

May 29th, 2012
4:04 pm

Not this dead horse again? How do you reconcile this need to raise the debt ceiling yet again with the most frugal president in decades?

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
4:04 pm

Paul,

It doesn’t explain the mass loss of population, jobs, and businesses from California. Meanwhile Texas continues to grow. California is as blue a state as there is an it is hemorraghing jobs and people despite built in advantages of climate, access to the sea, etc.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
4:04 pm

When is Mitt going to release his last twelve years of tax records?

What exactly is he trying to hide>

Maybe a lifetime of tax dodging in Switzerland and the Caymans?

And why is this pampered millionaire paying a smaller percentage in federal withholding taxes than you and me?

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
4:04 pm

0311 — “Regarding Bush (or anyone else) I have always said, “Let the chips fall …………” !

“His Air Force Reserve question was never settled one way or the other in spite of Dan Rather’s attempt (which ended his career) to provide false documentation just days before the election.”

Fair enough, thank you for the polite reply.

Do you feel that the resolution of that question (either way) could have influenced your voting decision?

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
4:05 pm

Doomy, namejacking is a fool’s errand…

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
4:05 pm

Paul @ 3:59: good poit

Plus you have the fact of companies changing headquarter locations. Regardless of why a company relocates, if they offer someone a job at the new location, they have to go where it is offered or look for other work.

When UPS moved from New York to Atlanta in the 90s, it doesn’t mean all their employees who voted Democrat now vote Republican because they now work in Sandy Springs. Some may have changed and I am sure some have not

Adam

May 29th, 2012
4:06 pm

Common Sense: How do you reconcile this need to raise the debt ceiling yet again with the most frugal president in decades?

There is no such need this year. The Republicans in the House are MAKING UP the need to start a fight.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
4:08 pm

Matti — “Maybe those veterans had fought for, (and their buddies had died for) your right to see the world exactly as they do?”

Perhaps; each veteran’s reasons are certainly their own. I wouldn’t presume to guess why another veteran chose to serve (or chose to comply with the draft, as the case may be).

I’m not saying that you’re doing this, but I’ve always been uncomfortable with the notion that veterans are some sort of monolithic opinion or voting bloc. We’re as different as citizens could be.

Adam

May 29th, 2012
4:09 pm

Recon: That means that he’ll need to run on his own record and not run from it by campaigning against previous Republican administrations

Which is why you won’t complain when he runs on:

-Killing Osama
-Wall Street Reform
-Health Care Reform (the parts that benefit you personally, btw)

….right?

Recon 0311 2533

May 29th, 2012
4:11 pm

How can Obama purport to understand the economy and deficit spending when he can’t make change.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

May 29th, 2012
4:11 pm

Well, I say the godly Republicans ought to keep from raising the debt ceiling so the U.S. of A. will get downgraded again and all the stocks go into the tank—except the beer stocks of course.

That way people will be mad enough at the Muslim Usurper to vote for Mr. Mormon Underpants. It’s about the only way Mr. Underpants will ever get elected. I bet even his own wife don’t like him. If you ask me, he acts Gay—not that there’s anything wrong with that. Mormon and Gay down here in the South is a bad combination. The only combo that’s worse is Atheist and Gay.

Anyhow, I see this billionaire Zuckerburg stiffed another Italian waiter. No tip at all and him with about 16 billion bucks in the bank. He can be a Job Creator and still leave a tip. Heck, poor as I am I always leave a nickle or sometimes a dime at the table when we leave Ryans. It’s just good safe business. Hard to tell what they’d put in that food the next time we went there if we never left any tip at all.

Have a good p.m. everybody.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
4:14 pm

Joe Hussein Mama @ 4:04

It wouldn’t have influenced mine as there were too many other important issues.

However, the public deserved the right to know if he finished his Reserve duty ……. or not.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
4:14 pm

JamVet,

With you of course I was just messin round. But Jay does take a serious stand on namejacking and in our little community I think most of us agree its probably the most serious transgression you can do.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
4:15 pm

0311 — “I was required to pass a Top Secret background investigation with an annual five year update. I expect no less from a president.”

I don’t think Presidents have to go through any kind of background check, do they?

I was tapped for White House Communications Agency, and if I had applied and been accepted, I’d have had to pass a Level 2 Yankee White check. But AFAIK, there’s no clearance process for Presidents, short of getting elected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee_White

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
4:15 pm

Paul @ 3:59

Whatever it takes ……………… :o !!!

Remember the old adage: “The South will rise again” !!

Jay

May 29th, 2012
4:17 pm

Well, since “conservative onlooker” is Ron Burgundy in yet another guise, no, he won’t be returning tomorrow or any other time, for that matter.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
4:17 pm

JamVet,

Ooops. Sorry man. My post at 4:04 to Paul I forgot to change it back to my handle. Just realized it.

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
4:17 pm

Trump just stated on CNN that many people put birth announcements in papers all the time so they can claim that they were born in the US. Mind you he didn’t have any examples…..

That was his answer to being asked, did the birther conspiracy start in 1961 when the announcement of Obama’s birth appeared in two Honolulu newspapers?

This is great. You can’t make this up. Bottom line, Trump knows he gets PR from it, so he will milk this until no one gives him the time of day. Whether he believes it, is another story

hahahahahahaha

Keep up the great work…………. Donald Duck………. I mean Trump

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
4:17 pm

Gordon — “Sounds reasonable at first glance. The only caution I can see is that the definition of “national emergency” would need to be defined. Politicians have a way of saying just about anything is an emergency if it suits their needs.”

My thoughts were something like another major terror attack on the scale of 9/11, an oil embargo against us or a declared war.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
4:18 pm

Joe Hussein Mama:

“I don’t think Presidents have to go through any kind of background check, do they?”

No they don’t and they still obviously get access to the nation’s top secrets.

It’s up to the press to vet them just as well (or better) than a security clearance. However, the press fails at that miserably especially if the candidate is a liberal (in my opinion).

Sarah Gee

May 29th, 2012
4:19 pm

If a debt ceiling standoff is an act of sabotage, then perhaps the president ought to consider restraining spending so that we don’t keep going into debt further and further. When Obama was candidate Obama he said that high deficits were “unamerican”. I suppose that Obama’s endless trillion dollar deficits must be traitorous?

Recon 0311 2533

May 29th, 2012
4:19 pm

Adam,

He does attempt to tout OBL, but have you noticed he doesn’t say much about Wall Street or ObamaCare.

josef

May 29th, 2012
4:20 pm

PAUL, SCOUT

Illegal aliens. Round ‘em up, herd ‘em out back to where they came from. :-)

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
4:20 pm

Doomy, it was in good fun. No harm, no foul.

Over the years, due to our fearless leader and his version of “Homey don’t play that!”, the namenickers here are as rare as a UGA national championship! (And no disrespect intended, but I’m not referring to the sport of tennis!)

Paul

May 29th, 2012
4:20 pm

JamVet

True, too.

Mighta known you’d have a reasonable answer. :-)

Both Suck

Also true. It’s what took my brother from Santa Monica, CA, a few blocks from the beach, to Austin, TX.

This weekend I spoke with a guy in Vegas. Lived most of his life in Calif. One of his friends had a business, employed a few hundred, workmen’s comp was a million a year. Moved to Nevada, it was a hundred grand a year.

What did he do with the saved $900k a year?

Pay employees more?

Nope.

Hire more people?

Nope.

Guy said his friend was more than happy to pocket an extra $900K a year.

So much for the job creators taking tax savings and going on a hiring spree.

jm

May 29th, 2012
4:21 pm

“Well, since “conservative onlooker” is Ron Burgundy in yet another guise, no, he won’t be returning tomorrow or any other time, for that matter.”

:) oops. which line did he cross? (other than the simba one, which suffices in my book).

Matti

May 29th, 2012
4:21 pm

Joe Mama, I’ve always been uncomfortable with the notion that veterans are some sort of monolithic opinion or voting bloc. We’re as different as citizens could be.

I agree. The irony of the encounter you referenced earlier is rich. Furthermore, I am amazed at how many people swallow the line used by some groups who claim that “the military” or “veterans” support their side or their candidate. I’m like, “Really? You just recently spoke to ALL of them? Wow, your phone bill must be astronomical!”

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
4:22 pm

“Well, since “conservative onlooker” is Ron Burgundy in yet another guise, no, he won’t be returning tomorrow or any other time, for that matter.”

Hallelujah! What a creep.

BTW, just saw Bob Dylan get the Medal of Freedom award from Obama. Along with John Glenn, Justice Stevens, Pat Summit (Women’s basketball coach) and others. He looks pretty good for 71 years young.

Rickster

May 29th, 2012
4:22 pm

Jay’s column about Obama being the most frugal president ever has been proven absolutely false:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304707604577426240727922340.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

So why would we believe any of the statistics he uses?

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
4:22 pm

Jam

Low blow to us Dawgs fans, but not much we can say……..

Paul

May 29th, 2012
4:23 pm

Thulsa

Glad that was you. JamVet doesn’t normally jump right in before the poster’s had a chance to answer.

I’m sure there are many reasons. But I am amused at how, with the Right, it’s always because of ‘high taxes.’

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

May 29th, 2012
4:23 pm

Well, I’m against these name jackers. Some of you may recall back when someone jacked my name and my buddy Jim Earl’s and had us writing Gay notes to each other. I say let’s hang them all.

Thomas

May 29th, 2012
4:25 pm

Economist- the CBO- and the media miss an important element- what is an expense and what is an investment. By defintion 300k/job is 270k of waste/expense. Krugman, whoever from Wharton, God him/her self can say print more $ but handing more $ to Congress and the WH is simply providing machine guns to monkeys- the ending is always the same and it is not pretty.

It is inevitable that the WH will need a third stimulus because of what McNasty Bush did.

btw- why isn’t Romney smart enough to say I am not running to be CEO of a private equity firm- I am now running for the WH? Does anyone remember a certain mayor of Atlanta whose main goal was employemnt in Atlanta? Employment is not a goal, it is a fallout of a strong economic platform.

Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)

May 29th, 2012
4:25 pm

“If a debt ceiling standoff is an act of sabotage, then perhaps the president ought to consider restraining spending so that we don’t keep going into debt further and further”

and where is Congress in all this? After all, the President can’t sign any spending bills until Congress passes it.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
4:25 pm

josef:

No need to round them up if we just make it so they “want” to go home.

Paul

May 29th, 2012
4:26 pm

Rickster

Ummm…. no.

Playing along with the WSJ article’s point, didn’t you wonder why they didn’t rerun the numbers, backing out the stim program? Or why they didn’t make the point a third of the ’spending’ was in the form of tax cuts?

Perhaps you’d like to rerun the numbers and tell us how it materially changes the point?

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
4:26 pm

Paul,

Its some interesting stuff. In the study that Scout cited taxes are the driving force behind NY losing population. the 2nd biggest loser that I can tell in terms of population lost is Taxachussets. I’ve got 2 female friends- one who makes 90 a year, and one who is a software developer making over 150k a year who say they live hear cause they can’t afford to live in Mass. They both could live there if they really wanted to of course but they just don’t want to deal with it. Ironically both are still liberal Dems.

I think NJ is also a heavily taxed state in addition to NY and Mass so its hard to imagine taxes not being part of the driving force behind people gradually fleeing these states.

review of preliminary 2010 Census data by Election Data Services (EDS) points toward a Republican advantage in the 2012 election. The Census Bureau releases their official report in late December.

EDS projections suggest gains by “Red States” such as Texas (+4), Florida (+2), Arizona (+1), Georgia (+1), South Carolina (+1) and Utah (+1). “Swing State” Nevada and “Blue State” Washington also may gain one seat each.

When some states gain, other states must lose. The brunt of the lost seats will occur in Blue States: New York (-2), Illinois (-1), Iowa (-1), Massachusetts (-1), Michigan (-1), New Jersey (-1) and Pennsylvania (-1). Swing States Ohio (-2) and Missouri (-1) are expected to lose seats along with Red State Louisiana (-1).

The net results: Red States +9, Blue States -7 and Swing States -2.

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
4:27 pm

“No need to round them up if we just make it so they “want” to go home.”

Better start dropping a real hammer on those who continue to employ them

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
4:28 pm

Matti — “The irony of the encounter you referenced earlier is rich. Furthermore, I am amazed at how many people swallow the line used by some groups who claim that “the military” or “veterans” support their side or their candidate. I’m like, “Really? You just recently spoke to ALL of them? Wow, your phone bill must be astronomical!”

Some people — on both sides — like to prop up figurative veterans as ‘mascots’ or ’sidekicks’ for their groups or ideas, clearly implying that ALL veterans agree with and support the aims being articulated. This pizzes me off MIGHTILY. It makes me even more angry when chimps like that fellow in Marietta dare to berate a veteran for holding opinions that don’t mesh with what the speaker thinks they OUGHT to be.

Hey. Dude. I did my hitch and EARNED my right to have opinions. So shove the eff off.

That’s what I told him, anyway. :D

jm

May 29th, 2012
4:29 pm

I can’t wait for the “white male” column that will be coming after the Romney VP pick likely turns out to be a white male.

Of course, if Sanchez, Haley, Rubio, Jindal etc were picked, Jay would also have a fusillade of bad things to say about them. But he’ll ignore that.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
4:30 pm

Sorry, BOTH.

It is very rare that I poke fun at the dawgs. (Now Auburn, that’s a different matter! Grin.)

Besides, unless my beloved Huskers can figure out a way to cheat win their way to another title, I don’t have a lot of room to talk! LOL…

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
4:30 pm

Doom — “The net results: Red States +9, Blue States -7 and Swing States -2.”

Don’t you suppose that some of the people moving from blue states to red ones might just take their librul voting habits with them? :D

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
4:31 pm

Thulsa

Taxes do play a part, especially at the corporate level.

With that said, have you checked out the debt increases that Texas is experiencing. Of course with a population boom, spending for infrastructure must go up, but Texas debt increase especially in terms of percentages is skyrocketing.

Without changes to their current tax structure (which is a draw for business) and spending they will have a day of reckoning that other states are feeling today

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
4:32 pm

Jam

While a low blow, it was the truth

:-)

Matti

May 29th, 2012
4:32 pm

josef & Scout,

…. meanwhile, I’m trying to get a legit, (bonded & insured) ‘merican lawn service over here, and DANG… billy bob bubba joe can’t be bothered to submit an estimate (as promised) or return my danged phone calls. See, all these legit local “lawn” companies want to do is dump chemicals on my grass for a big monthly fee. (Hence lots of junk mail, flyers, and unsolicited solicitation calls for a “free chemical analysis.”) Actually cutting back the jungle and keeping it tamed is too sweaty. Not worth it. Can’t be bothered.

Thanks… for nuthin’.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
4:32 pm

Northerners have always moved in large numbers to south and west. For a variety of reasons. This is not news.

But as long as the blue states continue to be the centers for education, culture and money, the liberals and progressives will be just fine…

jm

May 29th, 2012
4:33 pm

Dem Convention comes after Repub Convention.

Optionality for Obama. Could open door for Hillary if Romney goes “white male”. hmmm

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
4:33 pm

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
4:33 pm

Paul,

I don’t think its all just high taxes but other things such as affordable housing come into play. And from what I’ve read housing is generally much more affordable in red states. In many liberal cities such as NY, San fran which have the toughest rent control laws they also happen to have the highest rents which is quite ironical. You may also note that in many other coastal California cities like Palo Alto, San mateo county, San Jose, Berkeley, etc restrictive housing supply due to liberal laws regarding green space, etc means much less land available for housing and hence skyrocketing housing prices. The losers- young families and people starting out or looking to buy a new home. The winners- folks who already got theirs.

josef

May 29th, 2012
4:34 pm

SCOUT

“No need to round them up if we just make it so they “want” to go home.”

I keep trying, but they just keep coming. But, well, they ARE job creators..

http://www.buy.com/pr/product.aspx?sku=225046818&sellerid=35048858

Jay

May 29th, 2012
4:34 pm

Rick, that link you cite is absolutely bogus on several counts. It mischaracterizes Nutting’s post and the methods that he used to get there.

I stand by my earlier post. I double-checked Nutting’s methods before endorsing them, and he did it the right way.

Furthermore, as Paul suggests, even if you accept this “revised” but faulty math that you suggest, it produces an annual spending growth of some 5 percent for Obama, still well below that of Bush II and Reagan.

In other words, even by the math that YOU propose, Obama is frugal compared to his GOP predecessors.

Thomas

May 29th, 2012
4:35 pm

Actually cutting back the jungle and keeping it tamed is too sweaty. Not worth it. Can’t be bothered

Matti- pave it and allow commuters a right of way access- the Governor will give you a tax credit

OBIWAN

May 29th, 2012
4:36 pm

Oh this is terrible there is no way that we could cut some wasteful spending, maybe have NO raises for any federal workers making over $100,000. Or maybe get rid of some entitlements, God no it is a vast right wing conspiracy to bring down the government. How stupid is the left, balance the budget, I have to every month!

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
4:36 pm

http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-california-debt-clock.html

http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-texas-debt-clock.html

I don’t live in California so of course I’m not here defending everything their state and local politicians do or do not do, however it is interesting to see the debt clock per each citizen. For all one hears about California, Texas isn’t exactly in great fiscal shape. I will add that an increasing population does provide some what of an offset

235 more days

May 29th, 2012
4:37 pm

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
3:29 pm

Spoken like a true pencil pushing combat infantryman wantabe

You say you are a handicapped vertern, did the service cause your handicap? Was if from mailtary wounds. If so, I am sorry and proud of you, I call you a hero, if not I call you a fake.

Paul

May 29th, 2012
4:37 pm

Thulsa

“Its some interesting stuff. In the study that Scout cited taxes are the driving force behind NY losing population. the 2nd biggest loser that I can tell in terms of population lost is Taxachussets. ”

Oh, it is interesting. Which is why I’d love to dig deeper and see what percentage of those moving out who are in the workforce, paying taxes cite the tax rate, and how many are retirees, moving to warmer climes and citing lower taxes on their retirement pay. If it’s in states like Texas or Florida, one can easily feed into the stereotype of the well-to-do retiree with no sense of responsibility to others.

I do think (and you’ll appreciate this, given your profession) many people err when they do something as major as make a move based solely on income tax rates. A whole host of publications list states by who takes the largest chunk, and when you factor in property and other taxes, it makes for some interesting changes.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
4:39 pm

“Don’t you suppose that some of the people moving from blue states to red ones might just take their librul voting habits with them?”

Naw man. The fact that they are smart enough to be leaving the desolation of blue state economies shows us that they cons.

Thomas

May 29th, 2012
4:39 pm

If in this “recovery” our economy had grown and generated jobs at the average rate achieved following the 10 previous postwar recessions, GDP per person would be $4,528 higher and 13.7 million more Americans would be working today. …President Ronald Reagan’s policies ignited a recovery so powerful that if it were being repeated today, real per capita GDP would be $5,694 higher than it is now—an extra $22,776 for a family of four. Some 16.9 million more Americans would have jobs

Bookman- stick to local politics for the better of all. You do a damn good job at it.

Jay

May 29th, 2012
4:39 pm

“You may also note that in many other coastal California cities like Palo Alto, San mateo county, San Jose, Berkeley, etc restrictive housing supply due to liberal laws regarding green space, etc means much less land available for housing and hence skyrocketing housing prices. The losers- young families and people starting out or looking to buy a new home. The winners- folks who already got theirs.”

Really, Thulsa? So by your understanding, restrictive zoning laws such as 5-acre minimum lot sizes, minimum square footage and anti-apartment and anti-multi-family restrictions are “liberal” concoctions?

That would sure be news to folks in Cobb and Cherokee, among other places.

josef

May 29th, 2012
4:40 pm

My bad…I thought we were talking about the illegal aliens moving south, didn’t know we were talking about them coming from further south…

Bienvenidos, amigos, take y’all ten to one over the others… Viva Helen Thomas!

jm

May 29th, 2012
4:41 pm

Jay supports the new AA program of reducing beer consumption from 25 to 23 beers a day as being a big accomplishment. :)

jm

May 29th, 2012
4:42 pm

“So by your understanding, restrictive zoning laws such as 5-acre minimum lot sizes, minimum square footage and anti-apartment and anti-multi-family restrictions are “liberal” concoctions?

That would sure be news to folks in Cobb and Cherokee, among other places.”

Regulation is bad. I agree with Jay. Finally.

Peter

May 29th, 2012
4:43 pm

All the illegal Aliens should move to that GOP state Texas…. You can go to college without proving any type of residence, and pay in state tuition !

Brosephus™ - Fact Assassin

May 29th, 2012
4:45 pm

How do you reconcile this need to raise the debt ceiling yet again with the most frugal president in decades?

If it was good enough to do for Reagan 18 times, I guess Obama’s good for at least 9.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
4:45 pm

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
4:46 pm

Timestamp — “Spoken like a true pencil pushing combat infantryman wantabe”

Aww, is your hiney still sore from last Friday’s spanking? (laughing) :D

“You say you are a handicapped vertern, did the service cause your handicap? Was if from mailtary wounds. If so, I am sorry and proud of you, I call you a hero, if not I call you a fake.”

I’ve got a DD-214 from the DoD and a disability rating letter from the VA, so whatever *you* call me is unimportant and irrelevant, just like you.

Jay

May 29th, 2012
4:46 pm

“The fact that they are smart enough to be leaving the desolation of blue state economies shows us that they cons.”

Median household incomes, 2010

Georgia: $46,400
Flor: $44,400
Tex: $48,600
Mass: $62,000
NJ: $67,700
NY: $54,100
Cal: $57,700
NJ: $67,700

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
4:47 pm

Paul,

That’s true. Other factors like real estate taxes come into play and if you are a state that has no state income tax you usually make it up in real estate taxes or sales taxes. But even though from what I can see overall the red states have lower tax burdens. I have comcast as my ISP. Seems like every time I look at their headlines I see something like 10 best states to retire in, 10 worst cities, 10 best cities, 10 brokest cities,etc. Its kinda eye opening but when you look at them for example the 10 best retirement states 8 of them were low cost red states and for folks on fixed income taxes do in fact play a significant role in their economic decisions.

As for snowbirds I see a lot of them every winter when I’m in Gulf shores. Lot of them from Michigan. But they do end up going back to Michigan when winter is over. And people have been moving to and retiring in southern states like Florida for decades now. It doesn’t explain the new net differences in population though. And oddly one of the big population gainers was a northern red state- Idaho. It can get pretty cold in Idaho.

josef

May 29th, 2012
4:48 pm

IMAM

Now, factor into that the cost of living…

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
4:49 pm

JHM @ 4:46

very well said

kitty

May 29th, 2012
4:49 pm

“You may also note that in many other coastal California cities like Palo Alto, San mateo county, San Jose, Berkeley, etc restrictive housing supply due to liberal laws regarding green space, etc means much less land available for housing and hence skyrocketing housing prices. The losers- young families and people starting out or looking to buy a new home. The winners- folks who already got theirs.”

I am originally from the Bay Area. Does Thulsa have any idea that land in those places he noted is very limited by coastal hills? There isn’t a lot of land to sprawl out on as there is here and it makes a better place to live when it isn’t a complete concrete jungle and there is a bit of green space. Having lived there most of my life with the idea to go back as soon as I retire from Hotlanta I understand why real estate is so expensive. Land is limited, not over regulated. Sorry, paradise costs.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
4:51 pm

josef

May 29th, 2012
4:52 pm

kitty

Can I interest you in a carpetbag? :-)

Jay

May 29th, 2012
4:52 pm

More blue-state “desolation”

Percent of residents living in poverty:

Georgia 18.7
Texas 18.4
Calif. 16.3
Flor. 16
Mass: 10.6
NJ: 10.7

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
4:54 pm

Jay,

Nice. And can you broke down the after tax incomes of those respective states, their unemployment rates, etc. I believe it would paint a whole different story or trend as to what is going on. And lets not kid ourselves sir. Those states have had enormous economic head starts and advantages going back to Colonial days. Mass may be slowly wittling away built in advantages that its had over several hundred years such as having Harvard, Yale, MIT, and other prestigious schools there since the founding of the country. But it still has those advantages just as NY has had the built in advantage of being a main seaport and the financial capital of the U.S. if not the world for decades and decades. Its not as if these were advantages built by the Dems in recent decades of Dem control. And I think you know that.

josef

May 29th, 2012
4:55 pm

JAY

Where are Mississippi and Alabama in that list? Seriously…goes back to earlier silliness today…

235 more days

May 29th, 2012
4:56 pm

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
4:46 pm

I’ve got a DD-214 from the DoD and a disability rating letter from the VA, so whatever *you* call me is unimportant and irrelevant, just like you.

I have those also, but I wasn’t wounded in action, sorta like you I guess……….what a disgusting revelation

kitty

May 29th, 2012
4:56 pm

Ha ha, josef…a job is a job even if it ain’t at home. Atlanta isn’t a bad place, just too darn hot for my west coast blood. :)

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
4:58 pm

Sorry, paradise costs.

No kidding! And the perfect example is Hawaii.

If you think La Jolla is pricey, try Kauai!

In San Diego county I might be able to afford a shed.

In Princeville, I couldn’t afford a mailbox!

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
4:59 pm

timestamp — “I have those also, but I wasn’t wounded in action, sorta like you I guess……….what a disgusting revelation”

If you want to know anything about me, you’re not going to convince me to give it up by acting like a jackass, being insulting and demanding I answer your rude questions by threatening me.

If you’re going to act like a schoolyard bully, then I’m going to treat you like one. OTOH, if you want to be treated like an adult, then act like one — assuming you know how.

Jay

May 29th, 2012
4:59 pm

Unemployment rates are relatively easy to acquire, Thulsa:

Ga: 8.9
Cal. 10.9
Flor. 8.7
Mass: 6.3
NJ: 9.1
NY: 8.5
Tex 6.9

A mixed bag, in other words. The 10 states with the highest jobless rates and the 10 states with the lowest also include a roughly even number of red and blue states.

Orange 12

May 29th, 2012
5:00 pm

Okay. Fine, if you have the money to pay it back comfortably. The last time I looked we were at 16T in debt. Can we comfortably pay that back? Can we tack on another 1.2T and comfortably pay that back? The answer is obvious.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
5:00 pm

josef

May 29th, 2012
5:00 pm

kitty

Well, truth be told, I’m shopping for a cotton sack anyway…Atlanta’s just too big for me…it’s looking more and more like back down to the bayou country…just give me a tarpaper shotgun with a tin roof…oh, and at least a window unit! :-)

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
5:00 pm

More blue-state “desolation”

Percent of residents living in poverty:

Is this another misleading stat? Because we all know that federal guidelines may not take into account cost of living and that poverty is relative.

For example if $12,000 is the federal threshold of poverty there are going to be a lot more people making that level in the deep south where the cost of living is substantially lower. But in NY city you could be making only $12 an hour and be much poorer in relative terms than someone making $10 an hour in say Mississippi.

stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...

May 29th, 2012
5:02 pm

JAY,

Exactly when do we stop borrowing money to support a collective lifestyle we can’t afford. Anybody know the cost per taxpayer of the existing debt? Absurd that we have to borrow more money, continue to live beyond our means to improve our credit rating…what is a good debt number? 15 trillion, 25 trillion…if he gets a second term, what sort of debt will he bestow upon us….remember, his legacy will be the most impacted….you never hear of prior presidents blaming congress for their own lack of leadership…

josef

May 29th, 2012
5:04 pm

THULSA

That was sort of my point, too…Mississippi and Alabama have two of the highest owner-occupancy rates in the country. And you can grow enough greens to eat in the backyard…can’t get much of a crop from a windowbox (except in Toledo :-) )

Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)

May 29th, 2012
5:05 pm

“Exactly when do we stop borrowing money to support a collective lifestyle we can’t afford”

Easy: when Congress stops passing spending bills that are too big, and stops refusing to pass tax bills to raise taxes to pay off that debt.

Jay

May 29th, 2012
5:06 pm

Thulsa, the poverty threshholds are not adjusted by state, but that’s less of an issue than you might think. For example, not a lot of poor people live in Manhattan, but a LOT of poor people live in upstate New York.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
5:06 pm

They BOTH suck @ 4:27

I agree. That is one of the keys !!!

JohnnyReb

May 29th, 2012
5:06 pm

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
5:06 pm

Sooth, no matter how many different ways one looks at that map, it looks like a second consecutive McCaining is at hand.

Now, had the “severely conservative” GOP nominated a TRUE conservative…

LOL.

SwamiDave

May 29th, 2012
5:08 pm

Hey Jay……

Just wanted to help clarify the spin and historical inaccuracies that you hold dear.

This from your own paper.

As we are seeking to promote economic prosperity for our children and their future, controlling the growth of government and ever-increasing spread of dependency is our best mechanism.

Too often in the past, spending restraints have been ignored while the burdens upon taxpayers occurred immediately. There is frankly little reason for taxpayers to expect that any new “compromise” will be followed-through any better than they have been in the past. The onus is on the beneficiaries & those who acquire power by confiscation and redistribution.

-SD

235 more days

May 29th, 2012
5:09 pm

Dear Hussy,
Tell you what, I’ll not reply to your post anymore if you will do the same for mine
That is of course if you want to continue flowing your democratic views, and talking down to people as you do…so be it.
When you grow up let me know, I’d like to see that.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
5:09 pm

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
5:09 pm

josef,

I’m sitting on some land here. I need to get my garden growing but after my appointments every morning I end up whittling away the hours with you guys. I need to git crackin on the collards, maters, n beans.

stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...

May 29th, 2012
5:10 pm

I guess the GOP is too tough for Obama….too bad he doesn’t have the leadership to bring the sides together to get anything done…he can’t even manage a first down…he is a world class punter though…he is in way over his head…non-tenured “professor” who thinks a valid contract involves unwilling party, community organizer, and junior senator who didn’t even finish his term…great choice..

Paul

May 29th, 2012
5:11 pm

stevie ray

Do you support debt elimination by cuts alone, or by a combination of cuts and tax increases?

_______________________________________________

I still have to wonder: if Republicans from Ryan to Romney can call for eliminating deductions and lowering rates, does that not mean some within the group will see taxes increased? Then how can Republicans claim to be against tax increases to such a degree they are willing to go to the brink and beyond over the credit limit increase?

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
5:13 pm

JohnnyReb — “Jay, I see you are still standing by Nutting on Obama not being a big spender. Please use link to Heritage.”

If you’re going to demand that Heritage be leaned on so assiduously, then please contact them and ask them not to place gigantic howlers like this one in their pieces — “Heritage’s Alison Fraser and Emily Goff thoroughly dismantle of the Nutting-Carney claim and point out that President Obama’s near-trillion-dollar stimulus “drove spending to a record 25.2 percent of the economy in 2009 and deficits topped $1 trillion for the first time in the nation’s history.”

Clearly, Heritage forgot that *President Bush* was responsible for the FY 2009 budget, which marked the first time that the annual deficit topped $1T.

Facts — 1

Heritage — 0

I believe the term is

B

O

O

M

!

Matti

May 29th, 2012
5:14 pm

mmmmm… collards.

jm

May 29th, 2012
5:14 pm

Blue states (IL and CA in particular) will be on the precipice one day. Will be interesting to see whether anyone decides to bail them out.

jm

May 29th, 2012
5:15 pm

Jay, your HH incomes were not adjusted for COL (cost of livign)

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
5:15 pm

Timestamp — “Dear Hussy”

Your request is denied.

If you want to be treated like an adult, then act like one. If you want to be treated like a child, then simply persist in behaving as you have been recently.

I give what I get, and I post when I please (within the limits imposed by our host).

stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...

May 29th, 2012
5:16 pm

Paul,

Both but we need guarantee that increased taxes aren’t wasted on all the crap this president has stood for…stimulus, healthcare bill….some guarantee needs to be effected to allow taxpayers to not be on the hook for wasteful spending by either a sitting incompetent or a challenging wannabe….no way we get out of this mess without “middle class” stepping up just a wee bit…

josef

May 29th, 2012
5:17 pm

THULSA

We’ve been eating on the ‘maters for near bout a month now…got enough okra in now to fry up a mess…Unmentionable has a green thumb and is quite the pot (container) farmer…I’ve been threatening to plant some greens in one of the flower beds down by the street! Not sure how well that would go over with the illegal immigrant neighbors though.

One year we planted some cotton (it really is a nice plant) and it was funny talking to the passers by about what “that pretty plant” was! Several of the ones who did know though put in early requests for some of the seeds… :-)

Jay

May 29th, 2012
5:18 pm

JohnnyReb, that Heritage piece attempts to measure spending by ratio to GDP, which is deeply dishonest in this particular discussion. Right off, it tells you that the analysis is being skewed on purpose.

You know why as well as I do: Given how far GDP fell during the Great Recession, of course the ratio increased. It’s basic math: reduce the denominator, and of course the ratio soars.

In this case, rather than increase by $600 to $800 billion a year, GDP fell by $300 billion in ‘09. This year, GDP is about $2.5 trillion less than it would have been had normal growth occurred since 2008.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
5:20 pm

‘Thulsa, the poverty threshholds are not adjusted by state, but that’s less of an issue than you might think. For example, not a lot of poor people live in Manhattan, but a LOT of poor people live in upstate New York.”

Come on Jay. A McDonalds cook in New York, Mass, or NJ is going to have a much harder time with basic living than one in the deep south. He may make $12 an hour in places like that and still be dirt poor but not show up in the poverty stats because he’s making much more than the threshold. An employee making right around the threshold level or under it in a state like Al or Miss or Georgia officially counts in the poverty stats but may in fact be better off than the same fry cook in NY or NJ or Mass who makes more but whose income is eaten away at a substantially greater rate than the same fry cook in Miss.

And I was born in and from upstate NY near Buffalo. I lived there as a kid and have been up there many times and dad is up there right now for 2 weeks visiting. I’ve never seen droves of poor people up there so I’m not sure as to what you speak when you say there are a LOT of poor people up there. Buffalo certainly has been in decline for decades but it fell long ago in terms of its industrial base and mfg capacity. Were you referencing Buffalo?

Paul

May 29th, 2012
5:20 pm

stevie ray

As a matter of process, it’d be pretty difficult to say “the top-tier rate will go from 35% to 39.5%, but none of the increase can be applied to X or Y.”

It will just be said “X and Y funding did not come from that amount.”

I understand your point, though. But the fact of the matter is, that stance of “more people need to step up” puts you in the Obama camp, not the “no tax increases, for anything, ever, and don’t froget the 20% increase for Defense” Romney camp.

stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...

May 29th, 2012
5:20 pm

JOE,

Stop stooping to that guys level…not fun reading others calling names on what is supposedly a thinking person’s blog…he is beneath you or visa versa….let it go bro:-)

josef

May 29th, 2012
5:21 pm

matti

You can have my share of the collards (except for the collard kraut). I like mustard. When it first comes up, snip the little tender ones, take some tomatillos, some shallots, fry some bacon, crumble it over the top, then splash with vinagre, while the bacon grease is still hot, pour it over the salad…love it…

Jay

May 29th, 2012
5:21 pm

Sorry, bad math on my part. Should read that “This year, GDP is about $1.5 trillion less than it would have been had normal growth occurred since 2008,” not $2.5 trillion.

stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...

May 29th, 2012
5:23 pm

Paul…clowns to the left, jokers to the right…difference is I think we never get out of this jam unless “fair share” is defined by modest increases by all…not just those earning over $250K…maybe down to 75k…progessive tax….even 1 percent for those on lower end will raise a pile of dough over time….

Jay

May 29th, 2012
5:23 pm

Yes, Thulsa, Buffalo is exactly what I meant. It has a poverty rate about double that of New York state as a whole.

http://www.city-data.com/poverty/poverty-Buffalo-New-York.html

josef

May 29th, 2012
5:24 pm

THULSA

The poverty I’ve seen in upstate New York and rural New England would rival anything I’ve seen in Mississippi…

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
5:24 pm

Stevie Ray — “JOE, Stop stooping to that guys level…not fun reading others calling names on what is supposedly a thinking person’s blog…he is beneath you or visa versa….let it go bro:-)”

He can post when, where and however he pleases. And I can do the same.

I’m not in the habit of making nice with people who routinely hurl insults and threats, and I won’t reward such behavior by doing what he wants.

Once again, I give what I get. If he wants nice out of me, then he should try dispensing some of it. And if he feels he’s got a legitimate gripe with me, then he should man up and talk to me about it.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
5:25 pm

josef,

I helped my brother with a garden on his farm- he mostly raises cattle. Dang deer came and ate all the beans already but some of the other stuff is doing well. I should and would like to start cultivating my own garden but just haven’t gotten off my ass to do it. Plus I really wouldn’t know what the hell I’m doing. I probably couldn’t grow a weed. I just know how to use the augur.

Why are you planting cotton of all things? You know it drains the soil of nutrients over time.

pogo

May 29th, 2012
5:25 pm

Jay, I sympathize with you on the future of your children but are you not also scared of a political party that is totally built upon buying its votes with spending taxpayer dollars? Especially knowing that there are becoming fewer and fewer taxpayers to pay for this spending? And don’t give me the crap about the rich paying more. Taxing the rich won’t do the job. If this country has any hope of coming out of this EVERYONE, the rich, the middle class and those on federal programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, Foodstamps and SSN are going to have to give up something and that means the democrats are going to have give up some voters. Are they, the democrats willing to do this? The republicans probably aren’t either “and therein lies the rub”. The answer, quite simply is no. The democrats whole existabce is built upon spending taxpayer dollars (deficit spending). The national debt is the number one biggest threat to your childrens future but what is your answer? Tax the rich and spend more in the name of “stimulus”? I don’t hold out much hope for this country anymore. Giving heroin to a heroin addict does not make them better. It only hastens their demise and that is exactly what the democrats are proposing.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
5:26 pm

Kiplinger.com’s list of 10 great places to raise a family.

Omaha, Nebr.
Richland, Wash.
Suwannee, Ga.
Thousand Oaks, Calif.
East Grand Rapids, Mich.
Appleton, Wis.
Sunnyvale, Calif.
Middletown, N.Y.
Corona, Calif.
Stamford, Conn.

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
5:27 pm

TD

Years in the Big City have ruined you……….. I say, just ruined you

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

May 29th, 2012
5:27 pm

Yo, Thulsa, I was born in Buffalo – a long, long time ago. We moved when I was just a baby & have always wanted to go back just to see it. :)

stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...

May 29th, 2012
5:27 pm

JAY,

Do you read the Citizens Against Government Waste (CAGW)’s report for the 112th congress? You would dig it the most…

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
5:27 pm

Doomy, You’re from Buffalo?!

I spent three hellacious winters fun years living on Grand Island in the late 70s…

jm

May 29th, 2012
5:27 pm

“Given how far GDP fell during the Great Recession, of course the ratio increased.”

GDP is back to pre-recession levels. Spending is far higher. The issue is the numerator, not the denominator.

Jay

May 29th, 2012
5:27 pm

“Jay, I sympathize with you on the future of your children but are you not also scared of a political party that is totally built upon buying its votes with spending taxpayer dollars?”

If such a party existed, you might have a point, Pogo. I’d be scared of vampires too … if they existed.

josef

May 29th, 2012
5:28 pm

THULSA

Deer? Pee in a piss pot (that is if you have one and a window to throw it out of) and sprinkle it around the garden space…they won’t cross it…

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
5:28 pm

Damn html…

I spent three hellacious winters fun years living on Grand Island in the late 70s…

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
5:28 pm

Jay, josef,

Well than I musta been sheltered in my little ole Springville, Franklinville, Olean, etc. I can understand some of the poverty of Buffalo after its industrial decline but when I’m up there I just don’t see the degree of poverty that I see here in the south. Just another reason to diss them blue states I guess!

Oscar

May 29th, 2012
5:29 pm

I spent one night in Buffalo back in the late fifties and it was one of the worst experiences ever, with all the pollution in the air. I hear that has been removed and replaced by unemployment and poverty. But the air is clear. Progress.

stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...

May 29th, 2012
5:30 pm

JOE,

Your response speaks for itself…good luck with that approach..

Matti

May 29th, 2012
5:30 pm

“Exactly when do we stop borrowing money to support a collective lifestyle we can’t afford”

I’m sorry… What’s this WE stuff? I didn’t borrow 16 trillion dollars. I don’t have a “lifestyle.” I didn’t buy diddly I couldn’t afford. I didn’t start a war with a country that never attacked us. I don’t get the billions in tax subsidies that the international energy conglomerates do. I don’t have the kind of money or accountant that stashes my cash in the Caymans or moves my bases of operations overseas to save me a few bucks on taxes. I didn’t bundle up worthless real estate loans, call them “derivatives” and sell ‘em off in a ginormous pyramid scheme that made me rich while the economy tanked. I didn’t throw millions of Americans out of work by hiring Asian slave-wage workers. Heck, I don’t even get free gubmint cheese!

So tell me all you folks squawking that the debt is our number one priority and nothing else matters if that 16 trillion isn’t paid off pronto: WHY SHOULD I CARE? What exactly do *I* win if you get your way and “we” slash everything but the military budget, and pay that debt down? What, like… I get to access the SS money I paid in all these years? … AND?

jm

May 29th, 2012
5:31 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/opinion/brooks-the-role-of-uncle-sam.html?_r=1

Good read. And there is a party built on “buying” votes. A donkey is their symbol.

Mighty Righty

May 29th, 2012
5:31 pm

Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t trust the wisdom or patriotism of people who are willing to risk the destruction of the economy just to buy votes.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
5:31 pm

josef @ 5:24

You left out West Virginia. They don’t call it “Welfare” there ………. it’s called “Relief”.

Jay

May 29th, 2012
5:31 pm

In addition, Pogo, I’d argue that tax cuts are simply the Republican version of “giving money away” to voters.

And please, don’t give me the simplistic “it’s the taxpayers’ money in the first place” response. As long as the federal government is spending more money than it takes in, every dollar of a tax cut is a borrowed dollar.

stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...

May 29th, 2012
5:32 pm

POGO,

Stop making so much sense:-)

jm

May 29th, 2012
5:32 pm

“What’s this WE stuff?”

Matti has moved to singapore apparently. Traitor.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
5:32 pm

josef,

Little brother pees outside just like any other guy likes to do. Don’t know what it is I guess its just primeval instinct- marking territory and all that. I’ll be sure to tell him to “mark” his territory from time to time from them pesky deer. I just hope his crops don’t end up tasting kinda acidic and all. Or that they just don’t taste like piss.

jm

May 29th, 2012
5:33 pm

“I’d argue that tax cuts are simply the Republican version of “giving money away” to voters.”

1/2 a point there.

Oscar

May 29th, 2012
5:33 pm

I get to access the SS money I paid in all these years? …

_________

You would not get any social security. If we suddenly slashed everything the economy would tank and there would be no revenue. Then we wouold all be eating whatever we could plant in our back yards, if we could hold on to them.

Matti

May 29th, 2012
5:34 pm

jm

May 29th, 2012
5:34 pm

“If we suddenly slashed everything the economy would tank and there would be no revenue.”

fear mongering

tho I’m for a gradual adjustment if possible.

if not, slash thy way to fiscal solvency

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
5:35 pm

Matti,

Medicare also. That’s a big one ya left out that you get provided its not broke when you get there.

Matti

May 29th, 2012
5:36 pm

jm,

You call me a traitor? I call you a filthy liar. Now we’re even. Hump my leg again, and get mace in your face.

Oscar

May 29th, 2012
5:36 pm

fear mongering

_________

Reality. Look at what is happening in Europe where austerity meansures have been in place for the last two or three years. UK is back in a recession. Sudden austerity is not the way to go.

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
5:36 pm

jm

While I think cuts are needed, have you read Romney’s recent comments on spending………

Doesn’t seem to be getting much traction from right leaning sources for some reason

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
5:36 pm

Oscar,

I got a field for a back yard so I don’t mind growing my own food. Just have to have josef’s unmentionable tell me what to grow and how to do it.

jm

May 29th, 2012
5:38 pm

TBS – I haven’t seen his latest comments. His stated goal as of a few months ago was to get spending to GDP down from 24% to 20%. It would be a good start if that can be accomplished.

jm

May 29th, 2012
5:39 pm

“Hump my leg again, and get mace in your face.”

Darlin’ I’m sure I have no interest in your legs.

Oscar

May 29th, 2012
5:39 pm

Thulsa Doom
______

I am not a farmer either, or a grower. I did do pretty well with tomatoes in my back until it got too shady back there. My parents grew up on farms and always had a nice veggie garden, but I never got into it.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
5:40 pm

Stevie Ray — “JOE, Your response speaks for itself…good luck with that approach..”

It’s worked well for the last 17 years; I see no reason to change it.

stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...

May 29th, 2012
5:40 pm

Matti,

Appreciate you comments…we need to slash the military budget first..I think 20% is a good start…entitlements need some attention second….

Unfortunately, none of this means A THING until we get private money out of government elections….folks in DC care about one thing only and it ain’t us…

jm

May 29th, 2012
5:40 pm

“I did do pretty well with tomatoes in my back until it got too shady back there.”

Backyard tales of a producer…. :)

SwamiDave

May 29th, 2012
5:41 pm

“As long as the federal government is spending more money than it takes in, every dollar of a tax cut is a borrowed dollar.”

Actually Jay – as the federal government is spending more than it takes in (your admission), every dollar spent that is greater than revenues is a “borrowed dollar”. The more of taxpayer’s “dollars” that they are allowed to keep represent spending cuts that the federal government should make.

American taxpayers provide over and above the constitutional role of the federal government. Deficits are an outcome of spending too much.

-SD

JohnnyReb

May 29th, 2012
5:42 pm

stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...

May 29th, 2012
5:42 pm

Joe,

Not sure how you define “worked well” but again, your comments speak for themselves…res ipsa loquitor…

josef

May 29th, 2012
5:42 pm

THULSA

The poverty there is not as visible and not as endemic…but it’s there…I think, though, there is less of a “culture of poverty.” I know what that sounds like, but there is such a thing and it’s NOT predicated on shiftlessness and handouts…there is within it a sense of pride and self reliance we could all learn a lesson from…

kayaker 71

May 29th, 2012
5:42 pm

But…. but….. but….. having the thriftiest president since Ike we shouldn’t even have a fear. What is all this talk about spending and debt? Why even have a discussion about how much government spending we have and how it will affect our financial future. We certainly should rest assured that putting the financial future of this country in Bozo’s hands will heal us all. Heal us, Bozo….. heal us.

Matti

May 29th, 2012
5:42 pm

Oscar & Thulsa,

My point is that I’m tired of hearing everyone squawk like *I* have to address this debt right now, and more specifically, the earlier comment that “we have to stop borrowing money for a lifestyle we cannot afford.” I was complicit in neither the borrowing nor the big war shindig with Saddam that was put on “our” credit card in secret, without an itemized list, nor the Wall Street excesses that tanked the economy, nor the massive exodus of jobs from within our shores.

I played by the rules, worked, bought responsibly and paid on time. How is it incumbent on ME to save Medicare, SS, and the future of our children while Exxon and GE get tax breaks big enough to drive a whole ‘nother planet through?

Matti

May 29th, 2012
5:44 pm

jm,

I ain’t yer darlin. Stay away from me, creep.

josef

May 29th, 2012
5:44 pm

OSCAR

Do like Unmentionable…plant ‘em in pots and shlep ‘em around! Seriously, he does…labor intensive!

Oscar

May 29th, 2012
5:44 pm

Deficits are an outcome of spending too much.

________

I ate breadkfast at a restaurant this morning. Coffee was too strong. Guess they didn’t put enough water in the pot.

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
5:45 pm

kayaker

“Heal us, Bozo….. heal us.”

Good doc like yourself, knows it will take more than Obama (not sure who Bozo is, but I’m assuming your meant the Pres), to heal you…………

:-)

Seriously, hope you enjoyed the weekend

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
5:46 pm

Brosephus™ - Fact Assassin

May 29th, 2012
5:47 pm

American taxpayers provide over and above the constitutional role of the federal government. Deficits are an outcome of spending too much.

There’s an easy remedy to that one then, quit subsidizing ALL businesses in the US. If they can’t swim in the free market on their own, then let them go under on their own. There’s nothing in the US Constitution that supports subsidizing business interests at all, especially at the expense of the taxpayer.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
5:47 pm

Stevie Ray — “Joe, Not sure how you define “worked well” but again, your comments speak for themselves…res ipsa loquitor…”

Shrug.

Oscar

May 29th, 2012
5:47 pm

Matti

May 29th, 2012
5:42 pm
______

Let me quote an old legal rule of equity.

“When the stuff hits the fan, the distribution thereof will not be equitable.”

josef

May 29th, 2012
5:48 pm

matti, jm

Just don’t call each other delusional lickspittles… :-)

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
5:48 pm

Darlin’ I’m sure I have no interest in your legs.

I always thought there was something really wrong with Jm. (Huge LOL!)

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
5:50 pm

71,

I really enjoyed your post yesterday about what you went through in the military. (NO! Not in a sick way!) But as a tribute to you.

Salute!

jm

May 29th, 2012
5:51 pm

“I always thought there was something really wrong with Jm.” anti-gay sentiments surfacing.

I knew JamVet was a homophobe.

My wife’s legs are fantastic. Preferred above all others.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
5:52 pm

My friends, if you have read the article I posted @ 5:46. I know you’re in a hurry but I promise you won’t be disappointed.

Matti

May 29th, 2012
5:53 pm

josef,

I am offended by someone calling me a traitor, for whatever incomprehensible reason the creep had for doing so. We all have something that we find offensive. Anyone who says that to my face can expect to snack on a knuckle sandwich forthwith.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
5:53 pm

Oops! Have not read.

kayaker 71

May 29th, 2012
5:54 pm

They BOTH suck, 5:45,

Thanks. Some of the best comments over the weekend that I have read on this blog came from Scout. Always enjoy his spin on things. Did a lot of Hobie Cat sailing on Saturday when the wind was up and we managed to fly a hull most of the time. We work with the Special Olympics sailing team in Macon several times each summer….. the only event that they authorize is Hobie Cat sailing…. and we continue to teach the athletes how to sail and compete. Had a crowd on Saturday. Otherwise, some good steaks, some good lovin’…… life is good.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
5:56 pm

jm — “My wife’s legs are fantastic. Preferred above all others.”

Regular or Extra Crispy? :D

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
5:57 pm

kayaker

Glad you had a great weekend. That is awesome you volunteer with the Special Olympics. Hats of to you.

kayaker 71

May 29th, 2012
5:59 pm

AmVet, 5:50,

Many thanks. I hesitated to post that story but it would be nice to find out more about those that post here. Some have interesting histories and lots of stories to tell if we could just set aside the political rhetoric for awhile. We might not always agree but so what. Again, your comments are most appreciated.

OBIWAN

May 29th, 2012
6:00 pm

Joe Hussein Mama;
I guess you liberals always forget that for the last 2 years of Bush’s presidency the democrats were in charge of the senate and the house. So really Bush’s last year in which he did a budget was 2007, after that all democrats….

josef

May 29th, 2012
6:01 pm

matti

That one does tend to rankle me as well…

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
6:02 pm

kayaker

Sorry about that…

“Hats off to you”

josef

May 29th, 2012
6:04 pm

Kayaker

I’ll tangle with you up one side and down the other on a lot of things, but when it comes to your charity work, well, the MOTs have a word for you, you’re a mensh, and so is your better half…though I must say, she’s the better person! She has to live with you! (j/k)

Mama Says

May 29th, 2012
6:06 pm

I find it very interesting that you libs find fault with the republicans on this debt crisis. Normally when two sides oppose one another both sides are to blame for the impass. With you libs it seems like you really believe that your guys have done all that is possible.

We can start by placing blame with the leader. I would think you would be hard pressed to appoint a committee on deficit reduction, ignore the recommendations that your committee made and then try to blame the other party for a budget impass.

Despite all that you say republicans do you sure have a problem understanding who is spending more money than we take in.

By the way Jay, it was Obama who said increasing the debt is unpatriotic. You know when he was blinded by the bright lights of stardom, now it seems it’s ok.

pogo

May 29th, 2012
6:06 pm

Obama doesn’t waterboard. He sanctions with extreme prejudice with drones. Which is worse? Where is the liberal outrage? Can you imagine the liberal wailing if Bush has done this? Their outrage would have been heard around the world. Bush knew he couldn’t do it because of the liberals. Obama knows he can because he knows the shallowness of his liberal base and their unblinking willingness to ignore anything he does. Obama is unfetterred by his base because they are willing to overlook anything he does nor doesn’t do.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
6:09 pm

Back at ya, kayaker.

Not just over Memorial Day weekend, but gawd help me, I love watching some of those war movies. And barely a day goes by when I don’t think about those men who climbed those cliffs overlooking Omaha Beach or who took those islands in the Pacific.

Our debt of gratitude can never be repaid, and because of them we have not just our liberty, but our very lives.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming…

Joe Hussein Mama

May 29th, 2012
6:11 pm

OBIWAN — “Joe Hussein Mama; I guess you liberals always forget that for the last 2 years of Bush’s presidency the democrats were in charge of the senate and the house. So really Bush’s last year in which he did a budget was 2007, after that all democrats….”

I see. So are you saying that President Bush was so spineless and ineffective that he let Democrats ram the FY 2009 budget through Congress and then he signed it because he was so afraid of them?

Or could it perhaps be that President Bush really did mean to sign off on that budget and the Heritage Foundation hoped that people just *forgot* which President’s signature was on it?

Then again, perhaps you have another explanation in mind. I’m sure you’ve got one in mind that completely exonerates The Decider, don’t you?

Respond at your leisure, I’m out for the evening.

Paul

May 29th, 2012
6:15 pm

Mama Says

“Normally when two sides oppose one another both sides are to blame for the impass. With you libs it seems like you really believe that your guys have done all that is possible.”

In a situation where there’s a problem and there’s only two methods that can effect a cure, where one side says ‘do both’ and the other side says ‘do only one and I will do everything I can to block both avenues being pursued to fix the problem”

who would you say is the recalcitrant one?

As far as the deficit reduction committee – what are you talking about ‘ignoring the recommendations your committed made”?

Do you mean the United States Congress Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction? The one that made no recommendations as there was never an agreement?

Or do you mean the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform? I’ll agree that Pres Obama made a big mistake in not running with the recommendations. BUT: Republicans made it clear it had zero chance of passing as it incorporated tax increases as an integral part of the solution.

getalife

May 29th, 2012
6:16 pm

“life is good.”

You got that right.

Paul

May 29th, 2012
6:19 pm

pogo

“Obama doesn’t waterboard. He sanctions with extreme prejudice with drones. Which is worse?”

Do you really not see the difference between killing the enemy on the battlefield and abusing them while they are prisoners and in your custody?

Do you really not understand what was the impetus for the Geneva Conventions?

Do you really not understand the implications of the Nuremburg tribunal?

Jay

May 29th, 2012
6:20 pm

“Obama doesn’t waterboard. He sanctions with extreme prejudice with drones. Which is worse? Where is the liberal outrage? Can you imagine the liberal wailing if Bush has done this? Their outrage would have been heard around the world.”

Pogo, that’s so over-the-top as to be downright Trumpian. It’s a pretty easy distinction: An enemy still on the field of battle still poses a threat, so you have every right to kill him. The authorization passed by Congress in the wake of 9/11 made it crystal clear as to the legal situation: “the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.”

Members of al Qaeda carried out those attacks and intend to carry out still more; therefore the president is authorized and indeed obligated to attack them where we find them.

The treatment of prisoners already in our custody — prisoners who no longer pose a threat — are an entirely different matter under U.S. law, international law and traditional laws of warfare.

Again, this is not a complicated matter for those at all willing to see it clearly.

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

May 29th, 2012
6:20 pm

Jm, re your earlier post: I really do not care whether you agree with Jay, and I will never agree with you about anything. And don’t bother beating up on me. Josef will tell you it is not nice to beat up on old ladies. :)

getalife

May 29th, 2012
6:22 pm

Bob Dylan gets a medal from our President on CNN.

wolf made news with the birther issue.

trump just proved will right.

F. Sinkwich

May 29th, 2012
6:22 pm

All we need is a “balanced” approach to fix this, huh Jay?

“Balanced” in lib ilk parlance means tax increases NOW, spending decreases in the future, maybe, and then possibly a reduction in the rate of projected increases in spending.

How ’bout this Jay: Lib ilks actually support and pass REAL decreases in non-defense spending just to prove it can be done. Or perhaps you could cite some specific examples where Demos actually decreased spending in the past.

You can’t?

Who knew.

Paul

May 29th, 2012
6:24 pm

F. Sinkwich

““Balanced” in lib ilk parlance means tax increases NOW, spending decreases in the future, maybe, and then possibly a reduction in the rate of projected increases in spending.”

Really?

Which ‘liberal’ said that?

Besides you?

And why are you exempting Defense from cuts?

TaxPayer

May 29th, 2012
6:25 pm

So, where’s that Republican plan to reduce the debt.

josef

May 29th, 2012
6:25 pm

PAUL

Have you read that NYT article I’ve been yammering about? Obama has been pushing the envelope…

Paul

May 29th, 2012
6:27 pm

josef

Sorry, I’ve been skipping back and forth between this and work. Didn’t see all the posts. Can you resend the link, please?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
6:27 pm

kayaker 71 :

Thank you and Semper Fi !

Mama Says

May 29th, 2012
6:28 pm

Oh yeah one more thing.

I will have to admit I am from Clayton County, more commonly known now as ClayCo.

See democrats have ran this county for 41 of my 45 years of life.

We had a sheriff spending money left and right recently, getting monetary lawsuits filed against him which resulted in large taxpayer funded settlements, a county finance director who announced 3-4 years ago that the county lost 25 million, and I mean literally lost it, i mean like did it fall in between the Sofa cushions lost. Commissioners who created tourist boards and county managers at 100,000 dollar salaries, all I the mist of an economic crisis. Record high foreclosure rates, county employees being furloughed all while the democrats kept spending.

Finally they raised taxes, twice to compensate for the 17 million shortfall. See as typical democrats they just cannot stop spending, despite the harm they are doing.

You libs just refuse to consider it a problem though. Today the same finance director still sits in her office, the same board still sits in session and the sheriff ? Well he is running again. Despite his well known legal problems, political pundits still believe he has a shot. This is a typical democratic electorate. The harm that they have witnessed and lived has resulted in avid support for the very ones who have perpetrated the pain.

It sums it up when you ride down the road in ClayCo and see a vehicle displaying a Victor Hill bumper sticker right beside the Obama sticker which is beside the Wole Ralph sticker. The 3 biggest perpetrators of all our woes and the blind still blame the republicans.

ClayCo hasn’t had a republican sitting in office in 20 years but it’s still there fault.

Your arguments fall hard in counties that have been under democratic control forever Jay, spending is what you guys do, that and taxing and you do it while you try to convince the little guys that you are for us.

Strange, your party has done pretty good convincing the very people that you are robbing that you are helping them.

captguitarman

May 29th, 2012
6:28 pm

As a moderate (there’s that dirty 8 letter word again) Pub/Con, I am amazed that Boehner has already thrown down the gauntlet on a non-productive, and negative issue for the Pubs. We came within a gnat’s hair of tanking the market the last time this happened, and I can still hear that nitwit Bachmann on TV (and many others also without a clue) advocating no compromise and no surrender. The Pubs were just lucky something got worked out before everything tanked, because the party that turns off the spigot and creates the hardship will be that party that gets the blame for the results. How that has not yet sunk in with the Pub leadership is beyond my comprehension, and that fact alone should be enough to discourage any thinking that they will not chicken out in the next game of chicken because the Dem/Libs will cave and agree to spending cuts without tax increases before they will see the market tank just before the election. No. The Pub/Cons will get the blame, and such an ill-conceived strategy and its impact on the economy could be just what Obama needs to get him back into the White House.

Yes. I know. When will enough debt, enough spending ever be enough? The answer is that in the America we have created since the 60’s and 70’s, and particularly during the last 20 years . . . never. The extreme gamesmanship, political partisanship, demogoguery, and resistance to any meaningful dialogue or compromise (along with the rampant careerism in Congress and government as a whole) has finally created a completely dysfunctional federal government — one that cannot address and solve the economic problems we have seen coming for years and years — which would have arrived even without the Great Recession. But they were never fixed because the leaders we elected (the ones that we deserve) put getting re-elected and keeping their party in power above all else. No hard economic fixes and no hard choices even as Social Security and Medicare, the crisis in healthcare, and the ever-growing defense budget demanded hard fixes and hard choices. And now the wolf is in sight of the front door, and the dysfunction continues. The Senate Dems have not passed a budget in 3 years. No one wants to be held accountable and have their “careers” as legislators (not as public servants) halted. And neither party wants to give up any power, leverage, or position in order to compromise.

The best hope we have is that Romney gets elected and the House stays Pub/Con and the Senate also goes Pub/Con. That is the only way we are going to get out of this mess. Another way might be with Obama in office and a Pub/Con Senate and House (like during the Clinton years when things went well with the economy). But Obama is no Clinton. With the national debt at 16 trillion and growing, the Pub/Cons will make the hard choices and serve the hard medicine. The Dem/Libs will not — it just isn’t in their DNA. Their whole platform is just redistribute more of the wealth, and that is because they do not understand what made America such a great nation in the first place. Plus, as has been noted by many, that is not a real fix or cure, even if you confiscated all of the top 1%’s or top 10%’s wealth. It’s just an emotional political play that works well in hard economic times with Americans who have no understanding of the magnitude of the debt we are facing.

Pub/Cons just need to keep their poweder dry and go along with the annual debt ceiling increase one more time. Next year may be different. If it isn’t, and things don’t change and the government continues in its inablity to face and resolve this economic crisis, then it won’t really make much difference any way.

kayaker 71

May 29th, 2012
6:30 pm

getalife, 6:22,

Dylan is a deserving candidate for the Medal. Our song writers of that era are the Shakesperes of the modern world. How many events in our lives are shaped by what was playing in the background at the time? I can still hear, “The Times They Are a Changin’. in 1964.

Don

May 29th, 2012
6:30 pm

Let’s see. Congress authorizes spending on the country’s “credit card” and then when the bill comes they debate not paying it!

Vote’m all out.

Just get gov’t spending below 20% of GDP on avg and get taxation to match. How or who? That’s a detail.

Jay

May 29th, 2012
6:31 pm

JohnnyReb, that’s a much more accurate and fair assessment, although I’d note that it attributes increased spending to Obama that he had nothing to do with and that were driven automatically by the high jobless rate, declining income etc.

It’s also important to note its bottom line:

“All told, government spending now appears to be growing at an annual rate of roughly 3 percent over the 2010-2013 period, rather than the 0.4 percent claimed by Obama and the MarketWatch analysis.”

That 3 percent annual increase is a lot less than under any previous president since Carter, and less than half the increase of Reagan and Bush II. So my point still stands: Obama is thrifty compared to his predecessors, and far from the free-spending caricature drawn by the right.

josef

May 29th, 2012
6:31 pm

getalife

““life is good.”

“You got that right.”
Especially considering the alternative, eh?

***************

G-mare
Did you ever watch the Fruitcake Lady…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-1ehDZv6JQ&feature=related

Adam

May 29th, 2012
6:32 pm

Thulsa: So in lieu of these facts I patiently await your explanation as to how and why was acceptable for W, Gore, and Kerry to release transcripts of grades and sat scores but how it is suddenly unfair and allegedly racist as you implied to ask Obama to do the same. Explain this unfairness given the FACTS sir. This should be interesting.

You assume that by the very fact that they all released their college transcripts that necessarily means I agree that they should have done so and that it was relevant. I have news for you – I don’t agree. And their records did not at all enter in to my voting decision. It was unfair to ask ANY of them for their transcripts. And going on and on about “how did Obama get IN to Harvard” practically screams anti-affirmative action talk. I don’t recall anyone asking that about Gore or Kerry. I do recall people asserting Bush got in as part of Harvard’s children of alumni admissions policy. I also don’t know of anyone who gets a magna cum laude with a C average.

So again, I don’t see the relevancy of those transcripts. Any of them, for anyone mentioned.

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

May 29th, 2012
6:33 pm

“Fact Assassin”

Wouldn’t it be better to kill lies rather than the truth????

Adam

May 29th, 2012
6:34 pm

Pogo: If you didn’t notice the liberal outrage over warrantless drone strikes on American citizens in foreign countries it’s because the conservative megaphone is much louder and closer to your ear (and I suspect this is a deliberate choice on your part).

Jay

May 29th, 2012
6:34 pm

Mama, I would put it this way:

Clayton County voters will always vote Democratic for much the same reason that so many white Georgians will always vote Republican. It ain’t right, it ain’t smart, and it gives the party that enjoys that “get-out-of-trouble free” card an incentive to misbehave, knowing that they will rarely if ever get called on it.

But I know that doesn’t solve Clayton County’s problems, which are very real.

josef

May 29th, 2012
6:35 pm

Adam

May 29th, 2012
6:35 pm

Steve – USA: Wouldn’t it be better to kill lies rather than the truth????

I was wondering what my problem with that moniker was….

Adam

May 29th, 2012
6:36 pm

Mama Says

May 29th, 2012
6:36 pm

Paul, first of all do u or don’t you agree that Obama had a committee ?

Secondly, the very committee that you say never made recommendations is the exact one that you later admitted Obama did not follow.

Now of course you say it was because the republicans were laying in wait, seems to be the best excuse you guys have. Truth is Obama ignored every republican in congress to pass his medical bill, seems a little disingenuous to turn around and try to say he couldn’t follow his own committees recommendations because republicans would be against it.

Wish he had that mindset as he wasted 2 years shoving his medical plan on us. But then again he can do what he wants right, that is unless he really doesn’t want to, then he always hasa republican to blame, heck even when he had a veto proof majority you guys blamed republicans.

Bottom line he could do what he wanted to and he had nor has the inclination to balance our budget, it may require spending less.

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

May 29th, 2012
6:38 pm

Jay’s column about Obama being the most frugal president ever has been proven absolutely false:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304707604577426240727922340.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

So why would we believe any of the statistics he uses?
_______________________________________________________________________

The Washington Post said the same thing and actually gave 3 Pinocchio’s to the original article. I gave a link last week.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
6:40 pm

” there is less of a “culture of poverty.” I know what that sounds like, but there is such a thing and it’s NOT predicated on shiftlessness and handouts…there is within it a sense of pride and self reliance we could all learn a lesson from…”

josef,

Yes. I am familiar with the culture of what you speak. Not a lot is written about it. Makes me think of Jed Clampett.

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

May 29th, 2012
6:40 pm

Adam – “I was wondering what my problem with that moniker was….”

Maybe he should change it to “BS Assassin”. :)

F. Sinkwich

May 29th, 2012
6:42 pm

“That 3 percent annual increase is a lot less than under any previous president since Carter,”

There ya go!

How many of you lib ilks got 3% raises this year?

If O’bozo is so frugal, Jay, where are the social spending spending decreases?

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

May 29th, 2012
6:43 pm

…or “Assassin with Facts”.

Mama Says

May 29th, 2012
6:44 pm

Jay,

I knew if I pulled the ClayCo card you would be forced to at least compromise with me.

And in my view most of the republicans in south Georgia have been die hard democrats most of their lives.

Like Perdue, it was covenant to flip.

Kinda like saying you like the Yankees while you are in New York, you have to do what you have to do.

Brosephus™ - Fact Assassin

May 29th, 2012
6:44 pm

Wouldn’t it be better to kill lies rather than the truth????

Considering most “facts” here are nothing but regurgitated rhetoric with absolutely little connection to reality, sometimes facts must die so that the truth is known. ;)

Paul

May 29th, 2012
6:45 pm

Mama

I cited two committees and asked which one you were referring to. I thought you meant the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, but couldn’t tell from your post.

You still haven’t said which you view as his.

“Secondly, the very committee that you say never made recommendations is the exact one that you later admitted Obama did not follow.”

I said the United States Congress Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction couldn’t agree on a binding vote and did not make recommendations.

I said the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform made recommendations.

Now do you understand?

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
6:46 pm

Pogo does have a valid point.

The drone attacks are basically just potus sanctioned assassinations and killings of people. And today I believe we hit someone in Yemen. He’s basically judge, jury, and executioner in these deadly attacks from the air in sovereign countries. Now that doesn’t mean I don’t support it. I do.

I just don’t like the hypocrisy of all the nonsensical liberal posturing over “enhanced interrogation” when we have a president who is openly hunting down and killing people at will in sovereign countries using U.S. drones. Spare me the liberal moralizing over “enhanced interrogation” in light of drone attacks which not only kill people without benefit of a jury or trial but sometimes kill innocent civilians on top of that.

You guys have no moral leg to stand on when you factor this into account.

josef

May 29th, 2012
6:47 pm

THULSA

Way too much to go into here, but some time I’ll have to tell you about the night on the town with Tennessee Williams and that particular discussion at Mack’s By The Tracks…

*************

The financial crisis etc. I was looking up something else in an old reference book on American history in my library, and was drawn to an intriguing little comment on the Depression and the New Deal…the author said, in passing, “much of which was paid for by the state and federal taxes on alcohol following the repeal of Prohibition…”

Marijuana?

Brosephus™ - Fact Assassin

May 29th, 2012
6:48 pm

Steve – USA

Here’s actually where the tag originated…

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/05/26/in-which-the-chip-rogers-story-gets-more-interesting/?cp=all#comment-964067

Some mystery meat (h/t to JamVet once again) posted some “facts” about Black Americans and their voting record. I simply took him to task over those facts to which he never responded. I added the tag after Doggone’s response to my post.

:)

Paul

May 29th, 2012
6:48 pm

F. Sinkwich

“There ya go!

How many of you lib ilks got 3% raises this year?

If O’bozo is so frugal, Jay, where are the social spending spending decreases?”

Ever thought of doing a little reading on the federal budget process?

This isn’t so much on process, but it’s important to understand the terms.

http://www.truthandpolitics.org/budget-basics.php

Paul

May 29th, 2012
6:50 pm

“Pogo does have a valid point.

The drone attacks are basically just potus sanctioned assassinations”

You guys are playing pretty fast and loose with definitions, aren’t you?

getalife

May 29th, 2012
6:50 pm

“Marijuana?”

Free the weed.

The South will be the last to free the weed.

F. Sinkwich

May 29th, 2012
6:51 pm

AP:

“NEW YORK — Americans grew much gloomier about the economy in May, causing a critical measure of consumer confidence to suffer its biggest decline in eight months and ending a period of steady optimism.”

Don’t worry, though. Once it becomes apparent that O’bozo will lose, consumer optimism will soar.

F. Sinkwich

May 29th, 2012
6:53 pm

Thanks, Paul.

Please post the official O’bozo link where this clown proposes social spending decreases.

Paul

May 29th, 2012
6:53 pm

Thulsa

So what’s the difference between a drone strike and the intercept of Yamamoto’s itinerary and killing in WWII?

Or, for that matter, and closer to the memories of many bloggers, the spotting of a Viet Cong or NVA headquarters site by a recon team, maybe one headed by Scout, and calling in an airstrike?

Seems to be an overemphasis on the method of weapons delivery.

Paul

May 29th, 2012
6:54 pm

Sinkwich

I take it that means you’re not too interested in learning about the federal budget process?

:-)

Jay

May 29th, 2012
6:55 pm

“Kinda like saying you like the Yankees while you are in New York, you have to do what you have to do.”

As a lifelong Red Sox fan, Mama, ain’t never gonna happen.

getalife

May 29th, 2012
6:55 pm

President with a “kill list” is called a draft.

Brosephus™ - Fact Assassin

May 29th, 2012
6:56 pm

just don’t like the hypocrisy of all the nonsensical liberal posturing over “enhanced interrogation” when we have a president who is openly hunting down and killing people at will in sovereign countries using U.S. drones.

I seem to recall that the left was not very fond of Obama’s strategy. Unless you strained to hear it, you could not hear it over every friggin’ howl from the Right though. As I’ve often said, Obama should be every conservative’s wet dream come true. He’s a better President Bush than President GW Bush himself. As to the drone strikes, here’s something to ponder.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Taking_the_fight_to_the_terrorists

President George W. Bush

“We are committed to defending the nation. Yet wars are not won on the defensive. The best way to keep America safe from terrorism is to go after terrorists where they plan and hide.” –November 16, 2002. [3]

“In a statement released by the White House, Bush said the United States ‘works closely with every nation committed to this fight and we will continue to help our allies and friends improve their ability to fight terror.’ The strategy focuses on taking the fight against terrorists directly to them, isolating the terrorists from each other and potential allies, and disrupting plots before attacks occur.” –February 14, 2003. [4]

We are fighting these terrorists with our military in Afghanistan and Iraq and beyond so we do not have to face them in the streets of our own cities.” –October 25, 2004. [5]

We’re taking the fight to the terrorists abroad, so we don’t have to face them here at home.” –June 9, 2005. [6]

We either deal with terrorism and this extremism abroad, or we deal with it when it comes to us.” –June 28, 2005. [7]

“At posts in Afghanistan, Iraq, and around the world, our men and women in uniform are taking the fight to the terrorists overseas,” Bush stated, and upholding a universal principle of the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776, “that all are created equal, and all are meant to be free.” –July 2, 2005. [8]

“We are pursuing a comprehensive strategy to win the war on terror. We’re taking the fight to the terrorists abroad so we do not have to face them here at home.” –July 4, 2005. [9]

Seems like that was the right thing to do against the terrorist threat then, so why would that be any different now, regardless of whomever’s living at 1600 Pennsylvania?

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
6:57 pm

” It was unfair to ask ANY of them for their transcripts.”

Its funny but you keep saying its unfair to ask about their transcripts yet you won’t say why its unfair. Its mind numbing that when applying for scholarships or for jobs that a scholarship committee or a prospective employer may want to know what kind of grades you made but yet here we have Adam saying that grades and transcripts have no place in determining qualifications for the most important job in the world. That is nothing short of bizarre.

“And going on and on about “how did Obama get IN to Harvard” practically screams anti-affirmative action talk.”

Nope. Its much more than that. People want to know if he got other special help or strings pulled. And more than anything its a legitimate question as to whether or not the man may have applied as a foreign student in order to get in even though he is an American. If its so important to know about W’s short military service in Montgomery, AL. then its important to know about this.

” I don’t recall anyone asking that about Gore or Kerry.”

Well they did. Just because you don’t remember it doesn’t mean didley.

” I do recall people asserting Bush got in as part of Harvard’s children of alumni admissions policy.”

Yes. Matter of fact I’m pretty sure that Bush senior helped get him in and that if it weren’t for daddy he most likely would not have gotten in. And you can say that about a lot of people from influential families on both sides of the aisle. The kennedys would probably be a good example on the left.

“So again, I don’t see the relevancy of those transcripts. Any of them, for anyone mentioned.”

Well it looks like a lot of people are in disagreement with you as to the relevance of college transcripts in regards to qualifications for the most important job in the world. If you can’t understand that your college grades should be looked at in relation to your qualifications for this job then I just can’t help you.

josef

May 29th, 2012
6:57 pm

getalife

Don’t bet on it…as a cash crop it has a great deal of recommendation given the topography and climate..you do know that the only place in the country for the longest while it was legal to grow it was at the University of Mississippi…for research purposes, part of which was its potential in cropping…and the Southern states were among the first to decriminalize it…believe it or not, good ole Mississippi was in the first batch of those states…

getalife

May 29th, 2012
6:59 pm

transcripters?

getalife

May 29th, 2012
7:03 pm

josef,

Good for Mississippi.

Northern California and Hawaii are great for outdoor weed.

The best stuff is grown indoors.

Consistent revenue stream from taxing it.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
7:04 pm

Paul,

I didn’t say I didn’t support the drone attacks. I do. I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy of folks who have such a problem with a little waterboarding but have no problem whatsoever with drone attacks inside of nations we aren’t even at war with where alleged al qaeda members along with innocent civilians are killed. Its quite confounding. Were they always anti- torture? Or just anti – Bush? I think we have our answer.

josef

May 29th, 2012
7:04 pm

Obama’s application is not of particular interest to me…his transcripts are…I’ve already got his application for the job he wants to be considered for along with his curriculum vitae…I haven’t seen the transcripts and I’d like to know I could have a copy before deciding whether or not to hire him…

Paul

May 29th, 2012
7:05 pm

josef

I’m a few pages in and so far wonder, what’s the problem?

Aside from the fact liberals see what they didn’t want to see and conservatives also see what they didn’t want to see?

Mama Says

May 29th, 2012
7:06 pm

Paul to be completely fair, the congressional panel that you mentioned was appointed by Obama after the Republicans blocked the appointment process.

Obama then ignored his own panel

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

May 29th, 2012
7:08 pm

No, Josef, I don’t know about the fruitcake lady. Given that you recommend & that I actually made fruitcakes a LONG time ago and I like ‘em, I will watch the video.

Paul

May 29th, 2012
7:09 pm

Thulsa 7:04

Again, there’s a big difference between killing an enemy on the battlefield and abusing or killing him while he’s your prisoner.

And BTW, all this talk about ’sovereign’ countries.

Can anyone tell me a county that’s not sovereign?

Or is this just mindlessly adding words ’cause they sound good?

Paul

May 29th, 2012
7:11 pm

Mama says

And I said in my first response to you I see that as a big problem, even though Republicans made it clear they would never embrace the recommendations.

josef

May 29th, 2012
7:11 pm

Why the transcripts? Hell, if Copy Me Biden and He Who Gives C Students a Bad Name can release theirs for public scrutiny (AND ridicule) he should, too…

barking frog

May 29th, 2012
7:13 pm

I personally don’t care if president obama was born in africa or hawaii or if
he even graduated from high school as he was elected by the people. He has done a good job with what he had to work with.
Can Romney do better is the only question.

getalife

May 29th, 2012
7:14 pm

He will have four years of running the greatest country on this planet.

The opposition can’t stand up to birthers.

Easy choice.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
7:14 pm

Kinda like saying you like the Yankees while you are in New York, you have to do what you have to do.

Pigeon pellets! (Hat tip Sherman Potter.)

Chipper Jones nailed it after the Braves eliminated the Mets from the postseason some years back, “Now you (Mets fans) can go home and put on your Yankee stuff.”

Knowing full well that is the *ultimate* insult to all Yankees haters and faux Yankee fans!

I laughed for days on end…

Jay

May 29th, 2012
7:15 pm

“I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy of folks who have such a problem with a little waterboarding but have no problem whatsoever with drone attacks inside of nations we aren’t even at war with where alleged al qaeda members along with innocent civilians are killed. Its quite confounding. Were they always anti- torture? Or just anti – Bush? I think we have our answer.”

Yes, you do have your answer, Thulsa. It’s just not an answer that you’ll like.

Bush launched more than a few drone attacks inside Pakistan, a “nation we aren’t even at war with where alleged al qaeda members along with innocent civilians are killed,” to use your description. Did liberals condemn those attacks and demand that they stop because they were illegal, etc.?

As a rule, no. Therefore your attempted equivalency is false, by the terms that you yourself have established.

As I recall, there were complaints when the targeting went awry and killed a lot of innocents, but Bush and his generals — to their credit — fixed that problem. There were few if any complaints about the practice itself, because all Americans recognized that we needed to take out our enemies where we found them, just as the congressional authorization for military force dictated.

josef

May 29th, 2012
7:15 pm

PAUL

Maybe it’s just me, but a cabal in secret with a hit list reminds me a bit too much of Tricky D*ck…only this time there’s a death sentence…not to mention a lot of gray area there. Like I said, to me it’s pushing the envelope…and, well, habeas corpus is still MIA…

Mama Says

May 29th, 2012
7:15 pm

Sorry Paul I go into partisan battle mode when I come to this blog which sometimes causes me to see scary people.

I missed your point if you were saying that both are to blame. I thought you were saying it was all republicans.

Sorry Jay for that small truce.

I will now return to my partisan self if it helps your blog

Jay

May 29th, 2012
7:17 pm

In short, Thulsa, you’re just complaining because liberals — and a liberal president — aren’t living up to your own stereotyped view of them. Sorry about that, but I am not responsible for your misconceptions and feel no obligation to live down to them.

If you attack my country, as Al Qaida did, then we will hunt you down and kill you and ensure that you do not get another chance to do it again.

Paul

May 29th, 2012
7:18 pm

josef

So far that article shows Pres Obama’s pretty big on personal responsibility.

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

May 29th, 2012
7:23 pm

Well, I will watch it, Josef, as soon as I find my IPad ear thingies.

Paul

May 29th, 2012
7:23 pm

josef

I understand your concerns, but given how Pres Obama’s tightened up the process and said “I’m the one responsible, I make the decisions” how can it not be a secret process? “Hey Ahmed, you were 21 on the list but the NY Times says you’ve jumped to number 1. Don’t go outside, okay?”

Look at it this way: it’s a big improvement from WWII, where we identified, not individuals, but cities as home to dispersed weapons manufacturing and firebombed the entire city.

Paul

May 29th, 2012
7:24 pm

Mama Says

Don’t always go into battle mode. Confuses the heck out of other bloggers.

josef

May 29th, 2012
7:25 pm

PAUL

I think you’re missing the point…what you or I may make of his personal integrity in drawing up a hit list (and don’t get me wrong, I’m not accusing him of any devious motivations) but it gives me the willies to know that we have the man in office so cooly going about this, and, like I said, with habeas corpus still MIA, the POTENTIALITIES for serious abuse of that kind of power and that course of action give me pause for thought…

Brosephus™ - Fact Assassin

May 29th, 2012
7:25 pm

josef @ 7:15

I think the difference is that Nixon wasn’t necessarily engaged in an ideological and physical battle against people who wished to wipe us off the face of the planet. Each president and every member of the military have taken an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies to include the domestic kind. That gives them a bit of wiggle room when targeting people with US citizenship abroad. If they are indeed a threat to the Constitution, then they put a target on their back, not the president.

Mama Says

May 29th, 2012
7:25 pm

Paul, Sign of the times I am afraid

getalife

May 29th, 2012
7:28 pm

I am not afraid.

Paul

May 29th, 2012
7:29 pm

josef

I’ll also note while many on the Right attack Pres Obama for tightening up the span of control to minimize civilian casualties, those same voices on the Right screamed bloody murder when controls to minimize civilian casualties in close air support operations were implemented.

I think some people just like to criticize Pres Obama.

Soothsayer

May 29th, 2012
7:30 pm

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
7:31 pm

In my useless opinion, one of the exceedingly few things that W got right.

I’m paraphrasing here but, “If you don’t keep your thugs in check, we will help you out with that problem.”

And why I supported his policy of we will strike anywhere at any time if we can kill the known goons.

Duck, goons!

Cuz we’re coming in low and hard!

josef

May 29th, 2012
7:32 pm

I’m aware that the Nixon analogy is specious in direct relation, but in the character of the cabal, it’s another matter. Yes, I understand the necessity of secrecy. Yes, I understand the wiggle room…but the two together are not the best of conditions. There’s got to be some oversight of some kind.

And I agree, the dynamics of this war on terrorism, as Bush made clear when he declared it, are virgin territory which, imauo, are all the more reason to keep a tight rein…

Paul

May 29th, 2012
7:33 pm

josef

Oh, I saw the point. I see the President’s action as entirely consistent with the demeanor we’ve seen all along. It’s just in this case, the professorial, analytical detachment seems a bit jarring.

As far as the potential for abuse, I’ll offer the president taking power away from faceless agencies and putting it squarely in his lap minimizes potential abuse. As far as this process being applied outside al Qaeda, that’s a different concern entirely.

josef

May 29th, 2012
7:37 pm

Let me put it this way, Obama is a cool customer and so far, so good, qualms aside. BUT can you imagine. say Ron Paul or Newt Gingrich with that power and laissez-passer?

getalife

May 29th, 2012
7:38 pm

You can’t beat him on national security.

He won this issue.

Paul

May 29th, 2012
7:39 pm

josef

Now I won’t be able to get to sleep tonight.

Thanks a lot, ‘friend’……

Jm

May 29th, 2012
7:41 pm

“So my point still stands: Obama is thrifty compared to his predecessors,”

Bs alert

A real stinker

Obama/Biden 2012

May 29th, 2012
7:41 pm

。☆ 。☆。☆
★。\|/。★
Obama 4 MORE
–Deal with it TroIIs–
★。/|\。★
。☆。 。☆。

josef

May 29th, 2012
7:44 pm

Let’s just stir the pot, shall we? What’s the difference between Obama and Bibi when it comes to taking out the threat, niceties aside? You want to wipe me out? Well, Bubba, I got some take-out for you and it ain’t from the Chinese carry away down the block….

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
7:46 pm

You can’t beat him on national security.

He won this issue.

Simply mind blowing, getalife.

Arguably, the last refuge of an issue for the imploding GOP and a scrawny half black, Uppity Muslim, anti-American, socialist guy took that one away from them!

As Doomy is fond of writing…..

BOOM!

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
7:55 pm

What is it cons and Fox say? Oh yeah: “Thanks, President Obama!”

Why, Paul. How shrill!

Brosephus™ - Fact Assassin

May 29th, 2012
7:56 pm

Got a programming note for some here. If you have the Documentary Channel available in your home, there’s a documentary coming on at 8pm that might be of interest to the blog here…

http://documentarychannel.com/movie.php?currID=10403&t=What-Black-Men-Think

Janks Morton presents a searing examination of the role that myths, stereotypes and misrepresentations have played in the decimation of modern era black relationships, and how the symbiotic relationship between government, the media and black leadership perpetuates misinformation to further marginalize the role of black men in society. Since the triumphs of the civil rights legislations of the early 1960’s havoc and decimation has been wreaked on the Black family with a specific devastation on the Black man. With negative imagery of the media, the failed policy of the great society and modern era black leadership abandoning tenets that historically held the community together, a new form of mental slavery has perpetuated an undeclared civil war in the Black Community…

Seems that there are many pseudo experts here, so here’s the golden opportunity to find out what we think as though you’re doing the interviewing yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISSm41HNQFk&feature=player_embedded

Paul

May 29th, 2012
7:57 pm

sfd

Must be the water -

Pleasant evening, all -

barking frog

May 29th, 2012
7:57 pm

Flower Power!
B
L
O
O
M
!!!

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
7:58 pm

Thulsa Doom :

Don’t get caught up in the “transcripts” thingie. I could not care less about Obama’s grades.

I want to know under what status he was enrolled.

American citizen (which he was) or foreign student to get a break on his tuition or any other kind of advantage.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
7:59 pm

JAY:

“If you attack my country, as Al Qaida did, then we will hunt you down and kill you and ensure that you do not get another chance to do it again.”

What’s this “we” stuff.

You mean “our troops” will hunt you down ………… correct ?

Jm

May 29th, 2012
8:05 pm

Scout

Maybe cut him a smidgen slack

It was good to see a modicum of patriotism…. :)

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
8:06 pm

Jm:

Nope. He never cuts me any.

War is hell ………………. :o

Jm

May 29th, 2012
8:08 pm

Scout :) touché

Jm

May 29th, 2012
8:13 pm

I have never once clicked on an AJC ad

I have to wonder how they intend to make money on all this in the future

Small fee for blog access in the future?

Deal killer

Get Real

May 29th, 2012
8:18 pm

Comrade Jay……until you have a more balanced assessment of today’s true debt crisis your credibility is sorely lacking as is the credibility of your bandwagon minions…..the current state of spending beyond our means cannot continue as there is simply no free lunch…..a fact that your ideology simply will not allow you to acknowledge….

weetamoe

May 29th, 2012
8:19 pm

Jay stated his opinion. He views republicans as enemies of the state.

Jm

May 29th, 2012
8:23 pm

Obama should dial back on the ba salts

Jm

May 29th, 2012
8:24 pm

Dixie Chicks

May 29th, 2012
8:29 pm

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
8:29 pm

weetamoe stated his opinion. He thinks it is cool to put words in other people’s mouths.

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
8:36 pm

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
8:41 pm

If you have the Documentary Channel available in your home

I don’t. However, I see that Netflix has the DVD available for those who are interested. (Alas, it’s not available for online streaming.)

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
8:46 pm

Trump just stated on CNN that many people put birth announcements in papers all the time so they can claim that they were born in the US. Mind you he didn’t have any examples…..

Many people grow their hair long on the sides and comb it over so the can claim they have hair growing on top. Mind you I don’t have any examples…

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

May 29th, 2012
8:52 pm

Go, Stands, or in blog speak, lmao.

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
8:54 pm

Scout

“You mean “our troops” will hunt you down ………… correct ?”

Did you speak out against Bush when he said “we got him”, in reference to the capture of Sadam?

I know like my dad, you served in Vietnam and I do appreciate your service, but what is good for one should be good for all

Don't Forget

May 29th, 2012
8:57 pm

Recon 0311 2533

May 29th, 2012
8:58 pm

Looks like the military doesn’t much care for Obuma’s chest thumping on the OBL kill nor on the DADT repeal.

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/ballot-2012/2012/05/29/poll-veterans-overwhelmingly-support-romney-over-obama

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
9:01 pm

Recon

That is the exact same numbers that veterans voted for McCain and we both now the outcome of the election.

Going to need a significant push with moderates and independents. That could push the election to Romney.

If any given demographic from last time stays the same, probably will be the same result, but I do see a much, much closer election

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
9:01 pm

“we both know…………”

Recon 0311 2533

May 29th, 2012
9:01 pm

It’s amazing that the hard-left morons really believe Obuma is a shoe in for a second term.

godless heathen

May 29th, 2012
9:02 pm

Thanks, Don’t Forget. A great one, indeed.
RIP Doc

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
9:06 pm

He isn’t a shoe in, but if anyone thinks that current polling that was basically the same results as the last elections outcome for that demographic is a game changer…….. I really do not know what to say

godless heathen

May 29th, 2012
9:06 pm

Bro: Got a programming note for some here. If you have the Documentary Channel available in your home, there’s a documentary coming on at 8pm that might be of interest to the blog here…

What Black Men Think. Since they all think alike…………

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 29th, 2012
9:08 pm

they BOTH suck:

“You mean “our troops” will hunt you down ………… correct ?”

Did you speak out against Bush when he said “we got him”, in reference to the capture of Sadam?”

Yes ……….. and I often blasted Rumsfield for that and many other issues.

1) I have tried my best to be consistent in that regard.

2) I cringed when President Bush did that carrier landing thingie.

Recon 0311 2533

May 29th, 2012
9:09 pm

They Both Suck,

I’ve been consistent in my prediction that this will be a very close election. We’re a deeply divided country. At some point that divide may become a real factor and the thought it concerns me but I won’t go there now, for now the left seems to believe Obama will cake walk into office. I don’t think it will turn out that way.

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
9:10 pm

Scout

Thanks for the reply. I would have to agree and say that the troops are the ones who do the down and dirty work and deserve to be credited for it

godless heathen

May 29th, 2012
9:14 pm

I don’t care who you are, if you want to make a statement about the stupidity of others, try to spell all the words correctly.

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
9:14 pm

Recon

I do not see any sort of cake walk either way. In 2008, the polls were close like they are now, however Romney is not McCain. Not saying that is good or bad, but he is not McCain

Significant gains among moderates and independents could very well send Obama packing. Haven’t seen anything lately, but what I have read is that Obama’s polling in that category is slipping.

Of course the main issue being the economy, but Romney’s VP pick and the debates will also come into play

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
9:15 pm

Las Vegas is ready when you Republirubes are…

Obama -175
Whichever Republican +145

Recon 0311 2533

May 29th, 2012
9:15 pm

Rubio would be a good pick but I think Romney will get Florida regardless. Portman could deliver Ohio and should that happen it would truly be game over.

They BOTH suck

May 29th, 2012
9:17 pm

Recon

When I said close, I mean close during this same time frame of the election

Recon 0311 2533

May 29th, 2012
9:19 pm

TBS, copied your last.

j$

May 29th, 2012
9:20 pm

The only way Obama will play is by slander.

They know that’s the only way he can win given his promises/track record.

America is growing tired and frustrated with the rhetoric:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNOVLhsX8MI

Recon 0311 2533

May 29th, 2012
9:22 pm

I’m out…y’all be good.

G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)

May 29th, 2012
9:22 pm

Okay, TOTALLY off topic: Josef, when you told me about the fruitcake lady, I started to ask you if you were calling me a fruitcake & remembered one of the many classic scenes from MASH. Hawkeye & Trapper are escorting the quite inebriated Col. Potter. He falls; they pick him up; he says, “Did I fall down?” they reply, ” No, Sir.” and Potter says, ” I didn’t think so.” Ah, one of the best tv shows EVER. So now we can go back to increasingly divisive, vitriolic, often hate filled, rhetoric which masquerades as politics today. Yes, I am old enough to remember when it was “not always thus.”

Don't Forget

May 29th, 2012
9:23 pm

Jm

May 29th, 2012
9:25 pm

I like TBS

Decent centrist

j$

May 29th, 2012
9:26 pm

godless heathen

May 29th, 2012
9:29 pm

Las Vegas is ready when you Republirubes are

If the incumbent weren’t the odds on favorite in the betting world I would be really concerned. The incumbent has many advantages and that is reflected in the Vegas odds.

Jm

May 29th, 2012
9:29 pm

Mash

Almost everyone loves mash…….

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
9:30 pm

So while you sit back and wonder why
I got this f#cking thorn in my side
Oh my God, it’s a mirage
I’m tellin’ y’all, it’s a sabotage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5rRZdiu1UE

j$

May 29th, 2012
9:32 pm

Jm

May 29th, 2012
9:32 pm

Obama: bob Dylan is a hero

Chris Hayes: servicemen and women who lost their lives protecting and serving their country: not heroes

Liberals are really sick

Don't Forget

May 29th, 2012
9:34 pm

Thanks, j$, life gets teejus don’t it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMQ7u_bD87k

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
9:36 pm

heathen, no matter the reasons, those boys in Vegas are not into losing money.

And when you look at this map, it is clear why they are not persuaded by the right wing’s RINO…

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html

Brosephus™ - Fact Assassin

May 29th, 2012
9:39 pm

dB

From what I’ve seen thus far, it’s worth viewing. When the facts are laid out for all to see, there would be many a myth passed around here that would get blown to bits. It would probably blow the mind of many of those who “think” they know the Black community to hear so many who are critical of the so called “Black Leaders”. Doesn’t lend much credit to the idea that they are leading anything, as I often try to explain here. I’d suggest it be viewed by anybody with vision. I’ll probably buy a copy for myself.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

May 29th, 2012
9:44 pm

heathen, no matter the reasons, those boys in Vegas are not into losing money.

Well, I already started working on what I’ll say after the election. And that is, we needed a real Conservative to run against the Muslim Usurper. One that will revoke the Constitution if need be in order to go after the libruls and lock a bunch of these Traders up. What good is a Constitution if we’re going to lose the election? The only thing I haven’t figured out is what I’ll say when No. 1 Foxy Lady gets on here the day after the election and tells us to . . . well, you know.

Have a good night everybody.

Jm

May 29th, 2012
9:48 pm

Jamvet

Obama starts ahead

But it’s close

Obama requires a lot of “ifs” to win, and so does Romney

It’s a real race

stands for decibels

May 29th, 2012
9:49 pm

Don't Forget

May 29th, 2012
9:52 pm

Bro, looks like it’s not being shown in Tennessee which is a shame. Saw a preview on youtube and I bet it’s pretty enlightening. Stereotypes are rarely accurate of anybody. Hopefully it’ll be more available in the coming months.

Brosephus™ - Fact Assassin

May 29th, 2012
9:56 pm

Don’t Forget

Seems like they have a link to stream the full documentary here…

http://documentarychannel.com/movie.php?currID=10403&t=What-Black-Men-Think

Click the “Watch it now” link, and the full vid comes up. It’s close to 90 mins long, but well worth it.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
9:56 pm

“If you attack my country, as Al Qaida did, then we will hunt you down and kill you and ensure that you do not get another chance to do it again.”- Jay

Doomy do loves himself some a them thar tough talkin liberals.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
9:57 pm

But it’s close

No, it’s not.

Flip has to take eight or nine of the ten toss up states to win.

And that will never happen.

Start working on your concession speeches…

Jm

May 29th, 2012
9:58 pm

Sfd

Too much to ask for you to stop dodging the facts and stake your ground out? Yep

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
9:59 pm

G mare and JamVet,

Yep. Doomy is originally from Buffalo.

G
0

B
I
L
L
S
!

And ya’ll smartasses bout the 4 straight super bowl losses just simmer down now. Ya hear?

Jm

May 29th, 2012
10:00 pm

Jamvet

Obama has to hold a lot of states that don’t historically trend D

If he does so, he deserves to win

I have a lot of doubts that he will hold them

Jm

May 29th, 2012
10:01 pm

All Romney has to do is win Iowa plus 3 states that trend republican historically

Not a stretch at all

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
10:02 pm

If Wisconsin is any indication Romney sweeps all 10 of them tossup states. 6 or 9 months ago ya’ll were talking recall in Wisconsin and Ds taking back over Wisc. Not only did it not happen but it looks like the Rs are strengthening in Wisconsin.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
10:06 pm

Like I said, the bookies in Vegas are ready when you Romney fans are!

Easy money! Something like a 40% return in no time flat.

n

May 29th, 2012
10:07 pm

Just curious….
Who is No. 1 Foxy Lady??

bman

May 29th, 2012
10:09 pm

the Vegas bookies were all-in for the Patriots in the Super Bowl, too. I remember the Tyson/Holfield 25-1 odds. I missed the boat on that!

j$

May 29th, 2012
10:09 pm

Anyone who thinks this is a cake walk for Obama is going to eat my shorts.

Put your money where your mouth is.

j$

May 29th, 2012
10:10 pm

Yep, that’s what I thought.

nitenite

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
10:11 pm

Me and the bookies are pretty even during the regular season in college football but even then I still hold a slight advantage. But when bowl season comes I wear they asses out.

JamVet

May 29th, 2012
10:16 pm

bman, yep, you’re right.

Those guys are wrong SO much more than they are right.

That’s why there are all of those run down hovels up and down the strip!

Jay

May 29th, 2012
10:21 pm

As they used to say in Vegas when I lived there, and no doubt still say today, “it’s the only town in the whole country built by losers.”

Jay

May 29th, 2012
10:22 pm

G’night all. In the words of the immortal Ms. O’Hara, “tomorrow is another day.”

bman

May 29th, 2012
10:24 pm

Jam .. .. I would place a wager on either..

bman

May 29th, 2012
10:25 pm

“wouldn’t”

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
10:26 pm

Play long enough in a casino and you will lose. Sports betting if you follow the masses you will lose. Don’t do your research and you will lose. Money management and money discipline is also key but the bottom line is that like anything else in life if you invest time and a little money in research you can win in sports betting. But I sure as hell wouldn’t depend on it for making a living.

j$

May 29th, 2012
10:26 pm

“it’s the only town in the whole country built by losers.”

Ummm, no.

I guess Pittsburgh was built by losers also.

Thulsa Doom

May 29th, 2012
10:27 pm

Not sure I would wager on either of em either. Better to put my money on Lord Saban- usually a good return on investment.

j$

May 29th, 2012
10:40 pm

Alabama final ranking for 12/13 – (15~19)

mark it.

Tough year for the Tide.

Can’t win ‘em all every year…

Jimmy62

May 29th, 2012
10:47 pm

I think that making a law about the debt ceiling, then continuing to ignore, is also tantamount to deliberately hurting the economy. If Democrats don’t want to follow laws, then why don’t they just go to jail. That’s where criminals are supposed to go. For that matter, aren’t they supposed to pass a budget every year? Been a while since we had one. Kinda messed up to run a country this size and refuse to even create a budget, much less follow one. But that’s lefty logic for ya.

TaxPayer

May 29th, 2012
10:55 pm

How much does the Republican budget proposal reduce the debt.

j$

May 29th, 2012
10:56 pm

Gotta love the Bills.

Jim Kelly to Thurmond Thomas – a great duo!

JKL2

May 29th, 2012
11:25 pm

Let’s hear what this great American has to say about the President when it comes to national debt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyLmru6no4U

Don't Forget

May 29th, 2012
11:36 pm

Brocephus, that was a pretty good program. Lots of observations about not only stereotypes but also power structures, money etc. I’ll repost your link in case anyone else wants to watch that missed your post.

http://documentarychannel.com/movie.php?currID=10403&t=What-Black-Men-Think

I suppose the biggest take home really goes way beyond the scope of the program. The fact that politicians will NEVER solve the problems that got them elected in the first place. That applies to the economy, the deficit, drug abuse, racial disparity etc.

j$

May 29th, 2012
11:41 pm

wanlong, you’ve come to the right place.

ld

May 30th, 2012
12:29 am

The political agenda of both parties is to help only their constituants.

The difference between the parties is that:

The GOP most wants to help those that need help the least and least wants to help those that need help the most. The deficit “starves” government and helps them achieve this goal.

The Democrats want to help the so-called 99% — the economic working class and “least among us”.

The “values voters” likely will again vote contrary to their own best economic interest because, second to he[[, they fear true individual liberty most–it interferes with their efforts to tell others how to live.

ODD OWL

May 30th, 2012
2:32 am

MEMO TO ALL NON RICH AMERICANS…. Wake up and smell the black coffee… Mitt Romney and the extreme right wing, neo-con Republicans are hell bent on destroying the middle class way of life… The behavior of non rich Americans who vote Republican is analogous with the behavior of the German people when Adolf Hitler and the Brown shirts were claiming to have all the answers to all the problems.. No one took them serious… But after Hitler replaced the brown shirts with the black uniformed, goose stepping Schutzstoffels, the German people begin to take notice and realized that they were in danger… But it was already to late… People who don’t learn from their mistakes are bound to repeat them, over and over and over… The shyster Republican politicians have been running the same political scam on non rich Republican voters for the last 30 years. Mittens Romney is a blind man talking to a room full of deaf people… Wake up and smell the black coffee before its too late…

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

May 30th, 2012
6:21 am

Bud Wiser

May 30th, 2012
6:52 am

The real ‘economic sabotage’ here Bookman is the democrat party’s complete and total lack of thought, preparation, or even common sense when it comes to spending other people’s (our) money.

When these idiots come up with a budget as required by law, and actually get one passed, then maybe you can slide off your pathetic party ideology and say something that make sense, instead of just regurgitating the crap they feed to media stooges like you.

But one term Obama will not; he doesn’t have to, he’s outta here in November.

What a legacy he will leave indeed; the first half black president that never came up with an operating budget for govt during his one and only term.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

May 30th, 2012
7:13 am

Budwiser

You have such a talent for wordsmithing pernicious piffle!

I suppose everybody has got to have something to be proud of.

JamVet

May 30th, 2012
7:24 am

So Bud,

This is the guy that you’re pinning you feeble hopes on? (No, not the boob on the right, the one on the left!)

http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/dynamic/01392/WX108_1392081l.jpg

JamVet

May 30th, 2012
7:33 am

There are many reasons that I would never vote for Mitt.

But laying a big Trump and then tracking it all over the place? That has got to be in the top 10…

http://blogs.ajc.com/mike-luckovich/files/2012/05/mike0530121.jpg

Gm

May 30th, 2012
8:26 am

Amazing when gas prices where high, the right wing nut jobs at fox were blaming Obama and their low IQ viewers were buying in to this, now when gas prices have fallen you dont hear a word.

President Obama gets the blame when prices where going thru the roof but no credit when they have fallen, this shows what a bunch of hypocrites we have in this country, any middle class American no matter what color who vote for spineless Mitt have no clue what middle class America is about.

Adam

May 30th, 2012
9:13 am

jm: Chris Hayes: servicemen and women who lost their lives protecting and serving their country: not heroes

Again I refer you here: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/in-defense-of-chris-hayes/257744/

Don’t be too chicken to read the whole thing now ;)

Adam

May 30th, 2012
9:19 am

Thulsa: Its funny but you keep saying its unfair to ask about their transcripts yet you won’t say why its unfair.

I didn’t say why because prior to now, you never posed it as a question. You just asserted that I must be thinking it’s fair in one case and not in another, again without asking. Just assuming.

So try asking next time, k?

Its mind numbing that when applying for scholarships or for jobs that a scholarship committee or a prospective employer may want to know what kind of grades you made but yet here we have Adam saying that grades and transcripts have no place in determining qualifications for the most important job in the world.

What’s the last job you had to put your schooling on your resume for? You only have to do that when you don’t have any other experience to prove you can do whatever job we’re talking about. And I know it’s popular to claim that Obama only had “Community Organizer” while ignoring all his other work prior to running for President, but that part isn’t true either. And just about every non-nutjob out there thinks the same way – if you have work experience, THAT is what is looked at by the hiring manager, not your grades from 20+ years ago. And in addition there are exactly TWO qualifications for President:

Must be over age 35
Must be a naturalized citizen

Nothing in the job qualifications about military service, tax returns, or grades, and certainly nothing indicating that every single American citizen has the right to know every detail required to verify the above: that’s a government agency’s job, not YOURS. If college records WERE part of it, he would still be under no obligation to provide them to YOU just because you’re an interested citizen.

“And going on and on about “how did Obama get IN to Harvard” practically screams anti-affirmative action talk.”

Nope. Its much more than that.

In other words, yes it does scream anti-affirmative action talk AS WELL AS some other stuff. Thanks for the confirmation.

People want to know if he got other special help or strings pulled.

And SOME PEOPLE say Stephen Hawking is an idiot.

And more than anything its a legitimate question as to whether or not the man may have applied as a foreign student in order to get in even though he is an American. If its so important to know about W’s short military service in Montgomery, AL. then its important to know about this.

You keep drawing parallels to arguments I am not making. I have little interest in Bush’s military service, especially since he didn’t run on being a war hero or something.

” I do recall people asserting Bush got in as part of Harvard’s children of alumni admissions policy.”

Yes. Matter of fact I’m pretty sure that Bush senior helped get him in and that if it weren’t for daddy he most likely would not have gotten in. And you can say that about a lot of people from influential families on both sides of the aisle. The kennedys would probably be a good example on the left.

And your point would be what? I see it all as irrelevant.

“So again, I don’t see the relevancy of those transcripts. Any of them, for anyone mentioned.”

Well it looks like a lot of people are in disagreement with you as to the relevance of college transcripts in regards to qualifications for the most important job in the world.

See, you SAY that “a lot of people” are in disagreement, but so far you have only ASSERTED that. There is no evidence provided that anyone here but you (and perhaps a few other nuts here, certainly not “a lot”) is making this case as some sort of legitimate and pressing question.

If you can’t understand that your college grades should be looked at in relation to your qualifications for this job then I just can’t help you.

If you can’t undertand why it doesn’t matter when it comes to being President, as I explained above, that other experience is considered instead, then I can’t help YOU.

Joe Hussein Mama

May 30th, 2012
9:30 am

F. Sinkiewicz — “There ya go! How many of you lib ilks got 3% raises this year?”

Oh, Fishy, you poor thing. Did you get passed over for a raise AGAIN? :D

Adam

May 30th, 2012
11:28 am

“There ya go! How many of you lib ilks got 3% raises this year?”

Well, mine was over 8%, so….

Grob Hahn

May 30th, 2012
11:52 am

Why don’t we just raise the debt ceiling to infinity? Then we can pay for all the social gimme programs forever. It really is that simple isn’t it?
Grobbbbbbbbbbbbb [/sarc]

Adam

May 30th, 2012
1:11 pm

Grob: The debt ceiling is actually something Congress can decide to simply eliminate. They are the ones that put it in place in the first place. And a court challenge to the debt ceiling itself can be justified as being contrary to the 14th Amendment.

progressive conservative?!

May 31st, 2012
7:21 am

Don’t matter what you libs say, Obamab is out, Repubs take senate as well, the makers inthis country get confidence back, and this economy will tke off. Get ready for 8 years opf Romney. Obama worst president ever, shame we had to have a black liberal as our first black president. Really embarassed himself.