‘… debt-ceiling standoff is an act of economic sabotage’
With congressional Republicans promising to create yet another standoff on the debt ceiling, Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers, professors at the highly regarded Wharton School of Business, write in Bloomberg about the economic consequences of the first crisis last summer.
They note, for example:
“Growth in nonfarm payrolls decelerated to an average 88,000 a month during the three months of the debt-ceiling impasse, compared with an average of 176,000 in the first five months of 2011. Payroll growth subsequently recovered and has averaged 187,000 jobs a month since. Despite the rebound in job growth, employment is likely still below where it would otherwise have been.”
And consumer confidence — critical in this recovery — took an even greater and more spectacular tumble, as these numbers from Gallup demonstrate:
They conclude:
“All told, the data tell us that a debt-ceiling standoff is an act of economic sabotage. The only way to avoid this conclusion is to argue that consumers and employers were reacting to some other economic factors. But the debt ceiling was the dominant economic story at the time. No other news fits the data as well. Although the European debt crisis was a rising concern throughout 2011, the real trouble in Europe arose in the period when consumer confidence and employment were recovering.
The next debt-ceiling battle could be worse, because the stakes are even higher. In addition to the threat of default, the U.S. is facing the so-called fiscal cliff: a raft of spending cuts and tax increases that will happen at the end of this year unless Congress acts to postpone them. Another stalemate would almost certainly plunge the economy into a deep recession.”
It’s also important to note that the standoff created an historic downgrade of the USA’s credit worthiness. And for what? Congressional Republicans got a budget-cutting agreement out of the standoff, but it’s a deal that they began to repudiate almost immediately after it was announced and that they are now actively seeking to undermine.
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t trust the wisdom or patriotism of people who willing to risk the destruction of the economy to make a political point.
– Jay Bookman
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783 comments Add your comment
Jay
May 29th, 2012
5:06 pm
Thulsa, the poverty threshholds are not adjusted by state, but that’s less of an issue than you might think. For example, not a lot of poor people live in Manhattan, but a LOT of poor people live in upstate New York.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
May 29th, 2012
5:06 pm
They BOTH suck @ 4:27
I agree. That is one of the keys !!!
JohnnyReb
May 29th, 2012
5:06 pm
Jay, I see you are still standing by Nutting on Obama not being a big spender. Please use link to Heritage.
http://blog.heritage.org/2012/05/25/morning-bell-believe-it-obamas-a-big-spender/?roi=echo3-12118611970-8744067-db6305cbbf7bf33206f2606588a0cb1a&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning%2BBell
JamVet
May 29th, 2012
5:06 pm
Sooth, no matter how many different ways one looks at that map, it looks like a second consecutive McCaining is at hand.
Now, had the “severely conservative” GOP nominated a TRUE conservative…
LOL.
SwamiDave
May 29th, 2012
5:08 pm
Hey Jay……
Just wanted to help clarify the spin and historical inaccuracies that you hold dear.
This from your own paper.
As we are seeking to promote economic prosperity for our children and their future, controlling the growth of government and ever-increasing spread of dependency is our best mechanism.
Too often in the past, spending restraints have been ignored while the burdens upon taxpayers occurred immediately. There is frankly little reason for taxpayers to expect that any new “compromise” will be followed-through any better than they have been in the past. The onus is on the beneficiaries & those who acquire power by confiscation and redistribution.
-SD
235 more days
May 29th, 2012
5:09 pm
Dear Hussy,
Tell you what, I’ll not reply to your post anymore if you will do the same for mine
That is of course if you want to continue flowing your democratic views, and talking down to people as you do…so be it.
When you grow up let me know, I’d like to see that.
Soothsayer
May 29th, 2012
5:09 pm
Well, the cat’s out of the bag — Obama really is a big spender after all.
Thulsa Doom
May 29th, 2012
5:09 pm
josef,
I’m sitting on some land here. I need to get my garden growing but after my appointments every morning I end up whittling away the hours with you guys. I need to git crackin on the collards, maters, n beans.
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 29th, 2012
5:10 pm
I guess the GOP is too tough for Obama….too bad he doesn’t have the leadership to bring the sides together to get anything done…he can’t even manage a first down…he is a world class punter though…he is in way over his head…non-tenured “professor” who thinks a valid contract involves unwilling party, community organizer, and junior senator who didn’t even finish his term…great choice..
Paul
May 29th, 2012
5:11 pm
stevie ray
Do you support debt elimination by cuts alone, or by a combination of cuts and tax increases?
_______________________________________________
I still have to wonder: if Republicans from Ryan to Romney can call for eliminating deductions and lowering rates, does that not mean some within the group will see taxes increased? Then how can Republicans claim to be against tax increases to such a degree they are willing to go to the brink and beyond over the credit limit increase?
Joe Hussein Mama
May 29th, 2012
5:13 pm
JohnnyReb — “Jay, I see you are still standing by Nutting on Obama not being a big spender. Please use link to Heritage.”
If you’re going to demand that Heritage be leaned on so assiduously, then please contact them and ask them not to place gigantic howlers like this one in their pieces — “Heritage’s Alison Fraser and Emily Goff thoroughly dismantle of the Nutting-Carney claim and point out that President Obama’s near-trillion-dollar stimulus “drove spending to a record 25.2 percent of the economy in 2009 and deficits topped $1 trillion for the first time in the nation’s history.”
Clearly, Heritage forgot that *President Bush* was responsible for the FY 2009 budget, which marked the first time that the annual deficit topped $1T.
Facts — 1
Heritage — 0
I believe the term is
B
O
O
M
!
Matti
May 29th, 2012
5:14 pm
mmmmm… collards.
jm
May 29th, 2012
5:14 pm
Blue states (IL and CA in particular) will be on the precipice one day. Will be interesting to see whether anyone decides to bail them out.
jm
May 29th, 2012
5:15 pm
Jay, your HH incomes were not adjusted for COL (cost of livign)
Joe Hussein Mama
May 29th, 2012
5:15 pm
Timestamp — “Dear Hussy”
Your request is denied.
If you want to be treated like an adult, then act like one. If you want to be treated like a child, then simply persist in behaving as you have been recently.
I give what I get, and I post when I please (within the limits imposed by our host).
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 29th, 2012
5:16 pm
Paul,
Both but we need guarantee that increased taxes aren’t wasted on all the crap this president has stood for…stimulus, healthcare bill….some guarantee needs to be effected to allow taxpayers to not be on the hook for wasteful spending by either a sitting incompetent or a challenging wannabe….no way we get out of this mess without “middle class” stepping up just a wee bit…
josef
May 29th, 2012
5:17 pm
THULSA
We’ve been eating on the ‘maters for near bout a month now…got enough okra in now to fry up a mess…Unmentionable has a green thumb and is quite the pot (container) farmer…I’ve been threatening to plant some greens in one of the flower beds down by the street! Not sure how well that would go over with the illegal immigrant neighbors though.
One year we planted some cotton (it really is a nice plant) and it was funny talking to the passers by about what “that pretty plant” was! Several of the ones who did know though put in early requests for some of the seeds…
Jay
May 29th, 2012
5:18 pm
JohnnyReb, that Heritage piece attempts to measure spending by ratio to GDP, which is deeply dishonest in this particular discussion. Right off, it tells you that the analysis is being skewed on purpose.
You know why as well as I do: Given how far GDP fell during the Great Recession, of course the ratio increased. It’s basic math: reduce the denominator, and of course the ratio soars.
In this case, rather than increase by $600 to $800 billion a year, GDP fell by $300 billion in ‘09. This year, GDP is about $2.5 trillion less than it would have been had normal growth occurred since 2008.
Thulsa Doom
May 29th, 2012
5:20 pm
‘Thulsa, the poverty threshholds are not adjusted by state, but that’s less of an issue than you might think. For example, not a lot of poor people live in Manhattan, but a LOT of poor people live in upstate New York.”
Come on Jay. A McDonalds cook in New York, Mass, or NJ is going to have a much harder time with basic living than one in the deep south. He may make $12 an hour in places like that and still be dirt poor but not show up in the poverty stats because he’s making much more than the threshold. An employee making right around the threshold level or under it in a state like Al or Miss or Georgia officially counts in the poverty stats but may in fact be better off than the same fry cook in NY or NJ or Mass who makes more but whose income is eaten away at a substantially greater rate than the same fry cook in Miss.
And I was born in and from upstate NY near Buffalo. I lived there as a kid and have been up there many times and dad is up there right now for 2 weeks visiting. I’ve never seen droves of poor people up there so I’m not sure as to what you speak when you say there are a LOT of poor people up there. Buffalo certainly has been in decline for decades but it fell long ago in terms of its industrial base and mfg capacity. Were you referencing Buffalo?
Paul
May 29th, 2012
5:20 pm
stevie ray
As a matter of process, it’d be pretty difficult to say “the top-tier rate will go from 35% to 39.5%, but none of the increase can be applied to X or Y.”
It will just be said “X and Y funding did not come from that amount.”
I understand your point, though. But the fact of the matter is, that stance of “more people need to step up” puts you in the Obama camp, not the “no tax increases, for anything, ever, and don’t froget the 20% increase for Defense” Romney camp.
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 29th, 2012
5:20 pm
JOE,
Stop stooping to that guys level…not fun reading others calling names on what is supposedly a thinking person’s blog…he is beneath you or visa versa….let it go bro:-)
josef
May 29th, 2012
5:21 pm
matti
You can have my share of the collards (except for the collard kraut). I like mustard. When it first comes up, snip the little tender ones, take some tomatillos, some shallots, fry some bacon, crumble it over the top, then splash with vinagre, while the bacon grease is still hot, pour it over the salad…love it…
Jay
May 29th, 2012
5:21 pm
Sorry, bad math on my part. Should read that “This year, GDP is about $1.5 trillion less than it would have been had normal growth occurred since 2008,” not $2.5 trillion.
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 29th, 2012
5:23 pm
Paul…clowns to the left, jokers to the right…difference is I think we never get out of this jam unless “fair share” is defined by modest increases by all…not just those earning over $250K…maybe down to 75k…progessive tax….even 1 percent for those on lower end will raise a pile of dough over time….
Jay
May 29th, 2012
5:23 pm
Yes, Thulsa, Buffalo is exactly what I meant. It has a poverty rate about double that of New York state as a whole.
http://www.city-data.com/poverty/poverty-Buffalo-New-York.html
josef
May 29th, 2012
5:24 pm
THULSA
The poverty I’ve seen in upstate New York and rural New England would rival anything I’ve seen in Mississippi…
Joe Hussein Mama
May 29th, 2012
5:24 pm
Stevie Ray — “JOE, Stop stooping to that guys level…not fun reading others calling names on what is supposedly a thinking person’s blog…he is beneath you or visa versa….let it go bro:-)”
He can post when, where and however he pleases. And I can do the same.
I’m not in the habit of making nice with people who routinely hurl insults and threats, and I won’t reward such behavior by doing what he wants.
Once again, I give what I get. If he wants nice out of me, then he should try dispensing some of it. And if he feels he’s got a legitimate gripe with me, then he should man up and talk to me about it.
Thulsa Doom
May 29th, 2012
5:25 pm
josef,
I helped my brother with a garden on his farm- he mostly raises cattle. Dang deer came and ate all the beans already but some of the other stuff is doing well. I should and would like to start cultivating my own garden but just haven’t gotten off my ass to do it. Plus I really wouldn’t know what the hell I’m doing. I probably couldn’t grow a weed. I just know how to use the augur.
Why are you planting cotton of all things? You know it drains the soil of nutrients over time.
pogo
May 29th, 2012
5:25 pm
Jay, I sympathize with you on the future of your children but are you not also scared of a political party that is totally built upon buying its votes with spending taxpayer dollars? Especially knowing that there are becoming fewer and fewer taxpayers to pay for this spending? And don’t give me the crap about the rich paying more. Taxing the rich won’t do the job. If this country has any hope of coming out of this EVERYONE, the rich, the middle class and those on federal programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, Foodstamps and SSN are going to have to give up something and that means the democrats are going to have give up some voters. Are they, the democrats willing to do this? The republicans probably aren’t either “and therein lies the rub”. The answer, quite simply is no. The democrats whole existabce is built upon spending taxpayer dollars (deficit spending). The national debt is the number one biggest threat to your childrens future but what is your answer? Tax the rich and spend more in the name of “stimulus”? I don’t hold out much hope for this country anymore. Giving heroin to a heroin addict does not make them better. It only hastens their demise and that is exactly what the democrats are proposing.
JamVet
May 29th, 2012
5:26 pm
Kiplinger.com’s list of 10 great places to raise a family.
Omaha, Nebr.
Richland, Wash.
Suwannee, Ga.
Thousand Oaks, Calif.
East Grand Rapids, Mich.
Appleton, Wis.
Sunnyvale, Calif.
Middletown, N.Y.
Corona, Calif.
Stamford, Conn.
They BOTH suck
May 29th, 2012
5:27 pm
TD
Years in the Big City have ruined you……….. I say, just ruined you
G Mare 71(PLEASE VOTE NO ON TSPLOST)
May 29th, 2012
5:27 pm
Yo, Thulsa, I was born in Buffalo – a long, long time ago. We moved when I was just a baby & have always wanted to go back just to see it.
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 29th, 2012
5:27 pm
JAY,
Do you read the Citizens Against Government Waste (CAGW)’s report for the 112th congress? You would dig it the most…
JamVet
May 29th, 2012
5:27 pm
Doomy, You’re from Buffalo?!
I spent three
hellacious winters fun years living on Grand Island in the late 70s…jm
May 29th, 2012
5:27 pm
“Given how far GDP fell during the Great Recession, of course the ratio increased.”
GDP is back to pre-recession levels. Spending is far higher. The issue is the numerator, not the denominator.
Jay
May 29th, 2012
5:27 pm
“Jay, I sympathize with you on the future of your children but are you not also scared of a political party that is totally built upon buying its votes with spending taxpayer dollars?”
If such a party existed, you might have a point, Pogo. I’d be scared of vampires too … if they existed.
josef
May 29th, 2012
5:28 pm
THULSA
Deer? Pee in a piss pot (that is if you have one and a window to throw it out of) and sprinkle it around the garden space…they won’t cross it…
JamVet
May 29th, 2012
5:28 pm
Damn html…
I spent
three hellacious wintersfun years living on Grand Island in the late 70s…Thulsa Doom
May 29th, 2012
5:28 pm
Jay, josef,
Well than I musta been sheltered in my little ole Springville, Franklinville, Olean, etc. I can understand some of the poverty of Buffalo after its industrial decline but when I’m up there I just don’t see the degree of poverty that I see here in the south. Just another reason to diss them blue states I guess!
Oscar
May 29th, 2012
5:29 pm
I spent one night in Buffalo back in the late fifties and it was one of the worst experiences ever, with all the pollution in the air. I hear that has been removed and replaced by unemployment and poverty. But the air is clear. Progress.
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 29th, 2012
5:30 pm
JOE,
Your response speaks for itself…good luck with that approach..
Matti
May 29th, 2012
5:30 pm
“Exactly when do we stop borrowing money to support a collective lifestyle we can’t afford”
I’m sorry… What’s this WE stuff? I didn’t borrow 16 trillion dollars. I don’t have a “lifestyle.” I didn’t buy diddly I couldn’t afford. I didn’t start a war with a country that never attacked us. I don’t get the billions in tax subsidies that the international energy conglomerates do. I don’t have the kind of money or accountant that stashes my cash in the Caymans or moves my bases of operations overseas to save me a few bucks on taxes. I didn’t bundle up worthless real estate loans, call them “derivatives” and sell ‘em off in a ginormous pyramid scheme that made me rich while the economy tanked. I didn’t throw millions of Americans out of work by hiring Asian slave-wage workers. Heck, I don’t even get free gubmint cheese!
So tell me all you folks squawking that the debt is our number one priority and nothing else matters if that 16 trillion isn’t paid off pronto: WHY SHOULD I CARE? What exactly do *I* win if you get your way and “we” slash everything but the military budget, and pay that debt down? What, like… I get to access the SS money I paid in all these years? … AND?
jm
May 29th, 2012
5:31 pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/opinion/brooks-the-role-of-uncle-sam.html?_r=1
Good read. And there is a party built on “buying” votes. A donkey is their symbol.
Mighty Righty
May 29th, 2012
5:31 pm
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t trust the wisdom or patriotism of people who are willing to risk the destruction of the economy just to buy votes.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
May 29th, 2012
5:31 pm
josef @ 5:24
You left out West Virginia. They don’t call it “Welfare” there ………. it’s called “Relief”.
Jay
May 29th, 2012
5:31 pm
In addition, Pogo, I’d argue that tax cuts are simply the Republican version of “giving money away” to voters.
And please, don’t give me the simplistic “it’s the taxpayers’ money in the first place” response. As long as the federal government is spending more money than it takes in, every dollar of a tax cut is a borrowed dollar.
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 29th, 2012
5:32 pm
POGO,
Stop making so much sense:-)
jm
May 29th, 2012
5:32 pm
“What’s this WE stuff?”
Matti has moved to singapore apparently. Traitor.
Thulsa Doom
May 29th, 2012
5:32 pm
josef,
Little brother pees outside just like any other guy likes to do. Don’t know what it is I guess its just primeval instinct- marking territory and all that. I’ll be sure to tell him to “mark” his territory from time to time from them pesky deer. I just hope his crops don’t end up tasting kinda acidic and all. Or that they just don’t taste like piss.
jm
May 29th, 2012
5:33 pm
“I’d argue that tax cuts are simply the Republican version of “giving money away” to voters.”
1/2 a point there.
Oscar
May 29th, 2012
5:33 pm
I get to access the SS money I paid in all these years? …
_________
You would not get any social security. If we suddenly slashed everything the economy would tank and there would be no revenue. Then we wouold all be eating whatever we could plant in our back yards, if we could hold on to them.
Matti
May 29th, 2012
5:34 pm
josef,
YUM!
jm
May 29th, 2012
5:34 pm
“If we suddenly slashed everything the economy would tank and there would be no revenue.”
fear mongering
tho I’m for a gradual adjustment if possible.
if not, slash thy way to fiscal solvency
Thulsa Doom
May 29th, 2012
5:35 pm
Matti,
Medicare also. That’s a big one ya left out that you get provided its not broke when you get there.
Matti
May 29th, 2012
5:36 pm
jm,
You call me a traitor? I call you a filthy liar. Now we’re even. Hump my leg again, and get mace in your face.
Oscar
May 29th, 2012
5:36 pm
fear mongering
_________
Reality. Look at what is happening in Europe where austerity meansures have been in place for the last two or three years. UK is back in a recession. Sudden austerity is not the way to go.
They BOTH suck
May 29th, 2012
5:36 pm
jm
While I think cuts are needed, have you read Romney’s recent comments on spending………
Doesn’t seem to be getting much traction from right leaning sources for some reason
Thulsa Doom
May 29th, 2012
5:36 pm
Oscar,
I got a field for a back yard so I don’t mind growing my own food. Just have to have josef’s unmentionable tell me what to grow and how to do it.
jm
May 29th, 2012
5:38 pm
TBS – I haven’t seen his latest comments. His stated goal as of a few months ago was to get spending to GDP down from 24% to 20%. It would be a good start if that can be accomplished.
jm
May 29th, 2012
5:39 pm
“Hump my leg again, and get mace in your face.”
Darlin’ I’m sure I have no interest in your legs.
Oscar
May 29th, 2012
5:39 pm
Thulsa Doom
______
I am not a farmer either, or a grower. I did do pretty well with tomatoes in my back until it got too shady back there. My parents grew up on farms and always had a nice veggie garden, but I never got into it.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 29th, 2012
5:40 pm
Stevie Ray — “JOE, Your response speaks for itself…good luck with that approach..”
It’s worked well for the last 17 years; I see no reason to change it.
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 29th, 2012
5:40 pm
Matti,
Appreciate you comments…we need to slash the military budget first..I think 20% is a good start…entitlements need some attention second….
Unfortunately, none of this means A THING until we get private money out of government elections….folks in DC care about one thing only and it ain’t us…
jm
May 29th, 2012
5:40 pm
“I did do pretty well with tomatoes in my back until it got too shady back there.”
Backyard tales of a producer….
SwamiDave
May 29th, 2012
5:41 pm
“As long as the federal government is spending more money than it takes in, every dollar of a tax cut is a borrowed dollar.”
Actually Jay – as the federal government is spending more than it takes in (your admission), every dollar spent that is greater than revenues is a “borrowed dollar”. The more of taxpayer’s “dollars” that they are allowed to keep represent spending cuts that the federal government should make.
American taxpayers provide over and above the constitutional role of the federal government. Deficits are an outcome of spending too much.
-SD
JohnnyReb
May 29th, 2012
5:42 pm
Jay, have you seen this?
http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/052912-obama-off-on-thrify-spending-claim
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 29th, 2012
5:42 pm
Joe,
Not sure how you define “worked well” but again, your comments speak for themselves…res ipsa loquitor…
josef
May 29th, 2012
5:42 pm
THULSA
The poverty there is not as visible and not as endemic…but it’s there…I think, though, there is less of a “culture of poverty.” I know what that sounds like, but there is such a thing and it’s NOT predicated on shiftlessness and handouts…there is within it a sense of pride and self reliance we could all learn a lesson from…
kayaker 71
May 29th, 2012
5:42 pm
But…. but….. but….. having the thriftiest president since Ike we shouldn’t even have a fear. What is all this talk about spending and debt? Why even have a discussion about how much government spending we have and how it will affect our financial future. We certainly should rest assured that putting the financial future of this country in Bozo’s hands will heal us all. Heal us, Bozo….. heal us.
Matti
May 29th, 2012
5:42 pm
Oscar & Thulsa,
My point is that I’m tired of hearing everyone squawk like *I* have to address this debt right now, and more specifically, the earlier comment that “we have to stop borrowing money for a lifestyle we cannot afford.” I was complicit in neither the borrowing nor the big war shindig with Saddam that was put on “our” credit card in secret, without an itemized list, nor the Wall Street excesses that tanked the economy, nor the massive exodus of jobs from within our shores.
I played by the rules, worked, bought responsibly and paid on time. How is it incumbent on ME to save Medicare, SS, and the future of our children while Exxon and GE get tax breaks big enough to drive a whole ‘nother planet through?
Matti
May 29th, 2012
5:44 pm
jm,
I ain’t yer darlin. Stay away from me, creep.
josef
May 29th, 2012
5:44 pm
OSCAR
Do like Unmentionable…plant ‘em in pots and shlep ‘em around! Seriously, he does…labor intensive!
Oscar
May 29th, 2012
5:44 pm
Deficits are an outcome of spending too much.
________
I ate breadkfast at a restaurant this morning. Coffee was too strong. Guess they didn’t put enough water in the pot.
They BOTH suck
May 29th, 2012
5:45 pm
kayaker
“Heal us, Bozo….. heal us.”
Good doc like yourself, knows it will take more than Obama (not sure who Bozo is, but I’m assuming your meant the Pres), to heal you…………
Seriously, hope you enjoyed the weekend
Soothsayer
May 29th, 2012
5:46 pm
“I have lots of money, and can give it legally now,” Texas billionaire and top GOP moneyman Harold Simmons recently bragged to The Wall Street Journal. “Just never to Democrats.”
Most of the megadonors backing his [Romney's] candidacy are elderly billionaires: Their median age is 66, and their median wealth is $1 billion. Each is looking for a payoff that will benefit his business interests, and they will all profit from Romney’s pledge to eliminate inheritance taxes, extend the Bush tax cuts for the superwealthy – and then slash the top tax rate by another 20 percent.
What He [Harold Simmons] Wants: Plans to store radioactive waste from 36 states in an underground dump in Texas [on top of an underground aquifer]; has been sued repeatedly by the Justice Department for failing to clean up contaminated Superfund sites. Calls Obama “the most dangerous American alive, because he would eliminate free enterprise in this country.”
You get what you pay for.
Brosephus™ - Fact Assassin
May 29th, 2012
5:47 pm
American taxpayers provide over and above the constitutional role of the federal government. Deficits are an outcome of spending too much.
There’s an easy remedy to that one then, quit subsidizing ALL businesses in the US. If they can’t swim in the free market on their own, then let them go under on their own. There’s nothing in the US Constitution that supports subsidizing business interests at all, especially at the expense of the taxpayer.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 29th, 2012
5:47 pm
Stevie Ray — “Joe, Not sure how you define “worked well” but again, your comments speak for themselves…res ipsa loquitor…”
Shrug.
Oscar
May 29th, 2012
5:47 pm
Matti
May 29th, 2012
5:42 pm
______
Let me quote an old legal rule of equity.
“When the stuff hits the fan, the distribution thereof will not be equitable.”
josef
May 29th, 2012
5:48 pm
matti, jm
Just don’t call each other delusional lickspittles…
JamVet
May 29th, 2012
5:48 pm
Darlin’ I’m sure I have no interest in your legs.
I always thought there was something really wrong with Jm. (Huge LOL!)
JamVet
May 29th, 2012
5:50 pm
71,
I really enjoyed your post yesterday about what you went through in the military. (NO! Not in a sick way!) But as a tribute to you.
Salute!
jm
May 29th, 2012
5:51 pm
“I always thought there was something really wrong with Jm.” anti-gay sentiments surfacing.
I knew JamVet was a homophobe.
My wife’s legs are fantastic. Preferred above all others.
Soothsayer
May 29th, 2012
5:52 pm
My friends, if you have read the article I posted @ 5:46. I know you’re in a hurry but I promise you won’t be disappointed.
Matti
May 29th, 2012
5:53 pm
josef,
I am offended by someone calling me a traitor, for whatever incomprehensible reason the creep had for doing so. We all have something that we find offensive. Anyone who says that to my face can expect to snack on a knuckle sandwich forthwith.
Soothsayer
May 29th, 2012
5:53 pm
Oops! Have not read.
kayaker 71
May 29th, 2012
5:54 pm
They BOTH suck, 5:45,
Thanks. Some of the best comments over the weekend that I have read on this blog came from Scout. Always enjoy his spin on things. Did a lot of Hobie Cat sailing on Saturday when the wind was up and we managed to fly a hull most of the time. We work with the Special Olympics sailing team in Macon several times each summer….. the only event that they authorize is Hobie Cat sailing…. and we continue to teach the athletes how to sail and compete. Had a crowd on Saturday. Otherwise, some good steaks, some good lovin’…… life is good.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 29th, 2012
5:56 pm
jm — “My wife’s legs are fantastic. Preferred above all others.”
Regular or Extra Crispy?
They BOTH suck
May 29th, 2012
5:57 pm
kayaker
Glad you had a great weekend. That is awesome you volunteer with the Special Olympics. Hats of to you.
kayaker 71
May 29th, 2012
5:59 pm
AmVet, 5:50,
Many thanks. I hesitated to post that story but it would be nice to find out more about those that post here. Some have interesting histories and lots of stories to tell if we could just set aside the political rhetoric for awhile. We might not always agree but so what. Again, your comments are most appreciated.
OBIWAN
May 29th, 2012
6:00 pm
Joe Hussein Mama;
I guess you liberals always forget that for the last 2 years of Bush’s presidency the democrats were in charge of the senate and the house. So really Bush’s last year in which he did a budget was 2007, after that all democrats….
josef
May 29th, 2012
6:01 pm
matti
That one does tend to rankle me as well…
They BOTH suck
May 29th, 2012
6:02 pm
kayaker
Sorry about that…
“Hats off to you”
josef
May 29th, 2012
6:04 pm
Kayaker
I’ll tangle with you up one side and down the other on a lot of things, but when it comes to your charity work, well, the MOTs have a word for you, you’re a mensh, and so is your better half…though I must say, she’s the better person! She has to live with you! (j/k)
Mama Says
May 29th, 2012
6:06 pm
I find it very interesting that you libs find fault with the republicans on this debt crisis. Normally when two sides oppose one another both sides are to blame for the impass. With you libs it seems like you really believe that your guys have done all that is possible.
We can start by placing blame with the leader. I would think you would be hard pressed to appoint a committee on deficit reduction, ignore the recommendations that your committee made and then try to blame the other party for a budget impass.
Despite all that you say republicans do you sure have a problem understanding who is spending more money than we take in.
By the way Jay, it was Obama who said increasing the debt is unpatriotic. You know when he was blinded by the bright lights of stardom, now it seems it’s ok.
pogo
May 29th, 2012
6:06 pm
Obama doesn’t waterboard. He sanctions with extreme prejudice with drones. Which is worse? Where is the liberal outrage? Can you imagine the liberal wailing if Bush has done this? Their outrage would have been heard around the world. Bush knew he couldn’t do it because of the liberals. Obama knows he can because he knows the shallowness of his liberal base and their unblinking willingness to ignore anything he does. Obama is unfetterred by his base because they are willing to overlook anything he does nor doesn’t do.
JamVet
May 29th, 2012
6:09 pm
Back at ya, kayaker.
Not just over Memorial Day weekend, but gawd help me, I love watching some of those war movies. And barely a day goes by when I don’t think about those men who climbed those cliffs overlooking Omaha Beach or who took those islands in the Pacific.
Our debt of gratitude can never be repaid, and because of them we have not just our liberty, but our very lives.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming…
Joe Hussein Mama
May 29th, 2012
6:11 pm
OBIWAN — “Joe Hussein Mama; I guess you liberals always forget that for the last 2 years of Bush’s presidency the democrats were in charge of the senate and the house. So really Bush’s last year in which he did a budget was 2007, after that all democrats….”
I see. So are you saying that President Bush was so spineless and ineffective that he let Democrats ram the FY 2009 budget through Congress and then he signed it because he was so afraid of them?
Or could it perhaps be that President Bush really did mean to sign off on that budget and the Heritage Foundation hoped that people just *forgot* which President’s signature was on it?
Then again, perhaps you have another explanation in mind. I’m sure you’ve got one in mind that completely exonerates The Decider, don’t you?
Respond at your leisure, I’m out for the evening.
Paul
May 29th, 2012
6:15 pm
Mama Says
“Normally when two sides oppose one another both sides are to blame for the impass. With you libs it seems like you really believe that your guys have done all that is possible.”
In a situation where there’s a problem and there’s only two methods that can effect a cure, where one side says ‘do both’ and the other side says ‘do only one and I will do everything I can to block both avenues being pursued to fix the problem”
who would you say is the recalcitrant one?
As far as the deficit reduction committee – what are you talking about ‘ignoring the recommendations your committed made”?
Do you mean the United States Congress Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction? The one that made no recommendations as there was never an agreement?
Or do you mean the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform? I’ll agree that Pres Obama made a big mistake in not running with the recommendations. BUT: Republicans made it clear it had zero chance of passing as it incorporated tax increases as an integral part of the solution.
getalife
May 29th, 2012
6:16 pm
“life is good.”
You got that right.
Paul
May 29th, 2012
6:19 pm
pogo
“Obama doesn’t waterboard. He sanctions with extreme prejudice with drones. Which is worse?”
Do you really not see the difference between killing the enemy on the battlefield and abusing them while they are prisoners and in your custody?
Do you really not understand what was the impetus for the Geneva Conventions?
Do you really not understand the implications of the Nuremburg tribunal?