‘… debt-ceiling standoff is an act of economic sabotage’
With congressional Republicans promising to create yet another standoff on the debt ceiling, Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers, professors at the highly regarded Wharton School of Business, write in Bloomberg about the economic consequences of the first crisis last summer.
They note, for example:
“Growth in nonfarm payrolls decelerated to an average 88,000 a month during the three months of the debt-ceiling impasse, compared with an average of 176,000 in the first five months of 2011. Payroll growth subsequently recovered and has averaged 187,000 jobs a month since. Despite the rebound in job growth, employment is likely still below where it would otherwise have been.”
And consumer confidence — critical in this recovery — took an even greater and more spectacular tumble, as these numbers from Gallup demonstrate:
They conclude:
“All told, the data tell us that a debt-ceiling standoff is an act of economic sabotage. The only way to avoid this conclusion is to argue that consumers and employers were reacting to some other economic factors. But the debt ceiling was the dominant economic story at the time. No other news fits the data as well. Although the European debt crisis was a rising concern throughout 2011, the real trouble in Europe arose in the period when consumer confidence and employment were recovering.
The next debt-ceiling battle could be worse, because the stakes are even higher. In addition to the threat of default, the U.S. is facing the so-called fiscal cliff: a raft of spending cuts and tax increases that will happen at the end of this year unless Congress acts to postpone them. Another stalemate would almost certainly plunge the economy into a deep recession.”
It’s also important to note that the standoff created an historic downgrade of the USA’s credit worthiness. And for what? Congressional Republicans got a budget-cutting agreement out of the standoff, but it’s a deal that they began to repudiate almost immediately after it was announced and that they are now actively seeking to undermine.
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t trust the wisdom or patriotism of people who willing to risk the destruction of the economy to make a political point.
– Jay Bookman
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783 comments Add your comment
Gordon
May 29th, 2012
1:53 pm
Jay@1:18,
Let’s get this out of the way immediately: I am not a Republican, and do not support their resistence to defense cuts.
My disagreement with most on the left is this “balanced” argument. The word “balanced” seems to imply that closing the deficit can be accomplished by roughly equal parts of revenue enhancement and spending cuts. I disagree for several reasons.
1) The natural tendency of both parties is to spend, because it pleases constituents. Raising revenue is less of a problem because it doesn’t affect nearly as many people, and may actually be viewed as a positive as long as it is the other guy, especially the rich. So when taxes are raised, you don’t hear politicians say “Now that we have increased revenue, let’s get to work on those spending cuts!”. It just never happens. Only if raising taxes can be tied to spending cuts legislatively should they even be considered.
2) Raising taxes only on the rich does not bring in enough revenue to even cover the projected increases in spending over the next few years, not to mention the current deficit.
3) As I mentioned before, the goal at this point should be less to avoid an economic downturn than to actually implement true deficit reduction to avoid a far greater problem – economic meltdown. You have suggested we wait until the economy is humming again before we actually do meaningful entitlement reform, when the cuts will be less painful. But we can’t continue to wait. We must give up on the idea that there is a way out of this that is easy, or that politicians will EVER be of the mindset to actually cut spending. We must demand it. Putting in an actual debt limit seems like a way to demand it.
4) Revenues should drive expenses, not the other way around. No person or business who is economically successful decides how much revenue they need to obtain AFTER they spend money. They make the decision on what to spend based on the revenue they receive or expect to receive. That is true for individuals, corporations, local government, and state government. What makes the federnal government think it can be any different? You can write a hundred blogs on why we need more revenue, and that may all be valid, but until we actually get that revenue we can’t spend that money. Those of you who really want higher taxes are going about this all wrong – cut government to be in line with revenue, then stand back and watch the outcry for more revenue.
Like you, I really am worried about my children’s future.
Mick
May 29th, 2012
1:54 pm
chuck
You should know – you drink it by the gallons…
Adam
May 29th, 2012
1:54 pm
John: Whats wrong with wanting austerity versus run a way spending
Here’s what’s wrong:
Austerity is being proposed, runaway spending is NOT.
Lord Help Us
May 29th, 2012
1:54 pm
Chuck,
How about cut SS, cut Medicare, cut defense spending, raise taxes on people who make over $250k per year, do away with tax loopholes that favor the wealthiest Americans, and eliminate corporate tax loopholes/welfare?
With me?
Rick in Grayson
May 29th, 2012
1:54 pm
Gordon wrote a great comment about the need to live within our means. Truth had a comment attributed to Obama saying the same thing. We need to reduce spending much more than increasing taxes.
Even the Democrats won’t pass Obama’s latest budget!
We also need to cut defense spending (loss of jobs) and give up the “need” to be the world’s policemen. Obama can’t even influence any new goverments being created in the Middle East/North Africa. The Muslim Brotherhood has the upper hand and that does not look good for the future of the USA.
Steve
May 29th, 2012
1:55 pm
Gordon, liberals, Democrat, and Jay have repeatedly stated that raising taxes AND Cutting spending (not just social programs, but ACROSS THE BOARD…ie Military Industrial complex) is crucial to getting us out of this mess.
However, the GOP only seems to want to CUT taxes. Period.
The Truth
May 29th, 2012
1:55 pm
Funny how the Republican’ts (including the pathetic Kyle Wingfield) forget that their patron saint of fiscal conservatism Ronald Reagan raised the debt limit 18 times and pushed through the largest tax increase of any President prior to his term. What a bunch of hypocrite liars. I guess that’s why they’re called ‘Cons’.
Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)
May 29th, 2012
1:55 pm
“Whats wrong with wanting austerity versus run a way spending. ”
I refer you to Europe and it’s problems with austerity as we speak
Adam
May 29th, 2012
1:55 pm
Thulsa: First of all cause and effect hasn’t been proven as several of the liberals on here will no doubt attest. Only correlation
True Thulsa. The real question is if the ones pushing for a debt ceiling fight THINK this will be an effect, and that is WHY they are doing it.
Peadawg
May 29th, 2012
1:57 pm
“With me?”
All the way man, 100%.
Jefferson
May 29th, 2012
1:57 pm
You cannot compare gov’t to business or personal finances — to do so is starting the thinking process flawed from the get go.
SoGaVet
May 29th, 2012
1:57 pm
We CAN balance the budget and at least stop deficit spending.
Of course, that would require compromise and a realization that neither party is willing to cut spending to meet revenues, thus requiring the more reasonable solution of cutting spending AND raising revevues.
The GOP seems to think it’s more fun to allow us to sink deeper in debt than at least stopping the bleeding while we seek real solutions.
Mike Shearer
May 29th, 2012
1:58 pm
Anybody who has an understanding beyond the third grade level realizes that we are spending at an unsustainable rate. We have kicked this issue down the road as far as possible. You dim bulb progressives seem unable to comprehend that we’re bankrupt unless something is done, and done now. The fact that you condemn the responsible adults is just a further indication of how far off the mark you are, and how you fail to understand basic principles of finance. Good luck with that strategy. The American people have had enough of this nonsense!
Lord Help Us
May 29th, 2012
1:58 pm
‘All the way man, 100%’
Then you will probably want to vote for Obama…Mitt is nowhere near your position here, Obama is much closer…
The Snark
May 29th, 2012
1:58 pm
I’m going to follow the Republican/Tea Party approach to curbing my teenager’s profligate credit card spending. The next time their bill is due, I’m going to forbid them from making the minimum payment! That’ll solve the problem!
Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)
May 29th, 2012
1:59 pm
“Even the Democrats won’t pass Obama’s latest budget!”
A budget is merely symbolic, but there do seem to be a LOT of the conned who don’t know that.
Lord Help Us
May 29th, 2012
1:59 pm
‘The American people have had enough of this nonsense!’
You must really hate the Ryan plan…
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
May 29th, 2012
2:00 pm
Naturally, Liberals only see their side of a debate. In their bleeeding heart thought process debating the debt ceiling does the damage, not adding more trillions to the debt.
Then why didn’t our credit rating go down the 19 times the debt ceiling was raised during the Bush administration.
You aren’t very bright.
JamVet
May 29th, 2012
2:00 pm
Just as an aside from downstairs, I think Mitt and about six of his buddies need to hold Donald Trump down and shear off that thing from the top of the birther’s head!
ragnar danneskjold
May 29th, 2012
2:01 pm
We can all agree that leftists think it is patriotic to spend a trillion dollars you do not have, on shovel-ready jobs that aren’t, and to kick the can down the road when it comes to paying for it all. Given the roaring success of the “Stimulus” – the program whose name cannot be spoken – is it any wonder that leftists whine about republican unwillingness to share the blame for their lunatic policies?
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
May 29th, 2012
2:01 pm
We have kicked this issue down the road as far as possible.
Agreed, Bush kicked the cost of two wars down the road.
And that is costing us big time now.
Soothsayer
May 29th, 2012
2:02 pm
What if:
We had not repealed Glass-Steagall turning our banking system into a casino.
What if:
We had not passed NAFTA (and a host of other “free” trade bills)
What if:
Al Gore had been “awarded” the presidency and left the tax code alone.
What if:
We hadn’t granted China most favored nation status.
What if:
We hadn’t passed laws that encourage entire industries to move to low-wage countries
What if:
We protected our workers instead of throwing them under the bus.
What if:
We had not started 2 wars costing $5 trillion.
What if:
We had not passed a mammoth unfunded Medicare Part D Big Pharma giveaway.
Well, I don’t even need to wonder, I know.
Our nation would be debt-free (think about that for a minute or two.).
Four thousand Americans would still be alive.
Our nation would still be prosperous like it once was.
There would be little, if any, unemployment.
DawgDad
May 29th, 2012
2:02 pm
It takes two parties to create a “standoff”, not one.
Thulsa Doom
May 29th, 2012
2:02 pm
“No, RB, the socialists have not been in control in Europe. The conservatives have been, and they pushed austerity, got their wish, and now we see how quickly you can have negative results from that. Our country?”
Wrong wrong wrong. Look at the countries at the center of the crisis. Greece has been ruled by socialists for a very long time. A center right govt only recently took control in Spain. And in Portugal I believe their debt also was run up over time by leftist govts. Con govts have only recently taken power as in the last couple of years in Spain and Britain and quite frankly the problems facing those countries today- debt, is a problem run up over decades. And they took power just as the Greek tragedy began to unfold further dragging down economies continent wide.
The current economic problems the liberals are attributing to austerity when in fact the problems can be more correctly attributed to the continent wide crisis of confidence which started a couple of years ago with Greece’s shaky financial picture. The debt problems of Greece and the continent as a whole are what is slowing economic growth- not austerity as some on here have been brainwashed to believe.
barking frog
May 29th, 2012
2:03 pm
JamVet
Coif envy?
JamVet
May 29th, 2012
2:03 pm
the responsible adults
And who, pray tell, is that?
PLEASE don’t try and sell me the fetid boloney that it is the GOP!
The Republican Party – across the board – has been a gathering of spendaholics in need of a fiscal intervention for over thirty years.
Word.
Lord Help Us
May 29th, 2012
2:03 pm
‘We can all agree that leftists think it is patriotic to spend a trillion dollars you do not have…’
Another Ryan Plan hater…
Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)
May 29th, 2012
2:03 pm
“We can all agree that leftists think it is patriotic to spend a trillion dollars you do not have, on shovel-ready jobs that aren’t, and to kick the can down the road when it comes to paying for it all”
We can all agree that rightists think it is patriotic to spend a trillion dollars you do no have, on wars that aren’t neccessary, and to kick the can down the road when it comes to paying for it all.
Mitt Zombie
May 29th, 2012
2:03 pm
In case anyone missed it, former GOP Sen. Alan Simpson of Wyoming agrees that Tea Party driven dogma is hurting the country.
In remarkably colorful terms, former Sen. Alan Simpson (R-WY) on Sunday lashed out at members of his party for their unyielding opposition to new tax revenues, whom he described as stymieing a debt reduction agreement.
“I guess I’m known as a RINO now, which means a Republican in name only, because, I guess, of social views, perhaps, or common sense would be another one, which seems to escape members of our party,” said Simpson, a co-chair of President Obama’s fiscal commission, on CNN’s “Fareed Zakaria GPS.”
“For heaven’s sake, you have Grover Norquist wandering the earth in his white robes saying that if you raise taxes one penny, he’ll defeat you,” he added. “He can’t murder you. He can’t burn your house. The only thing he can do to you, as an elected official, is defeat you for reelection. And if that means more to you than your country when we need patriots to come out in a situation when we’re in extremity, you shouldn’t even be in Congress.”
The failure on Capitol Hill to agree on the parameters of a sustainable fiscal vision has been the topic of lots of finger-pointing. As the conventional wisdom goes, Republicans refuse to budge on taxes and Democrats refuse to budge on safety-net programs. Democrats, however, speak often about the need to cut entitlement spending as part of a balanced deal, while Republicans maintain that new taxes are unacceptable.
“You can’t cut spending your way out of this hole. You can’t grow your way out of this hole. And you can’t tax your way out of this hole. So put that in your pipe and smoke it, we tell these people. This is madness,” Simpson said. “If you want to be a purist, go somewhere on a mountaintop and praise the East or something. But if you want to be in politics, you learn to compromise. And you learn to compromise on the issue without compromising yourself. Show me a guy who won’t compromise and I’ll show you a guy with rock for brains.”
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
May 29th, 2012
2:04 pm
The American people have had enough of this nonsense!
Agreed again. We will never go back to the failed policies that started this mess.
Namely giving huge tax breaks to the wealthy that they didn’t need and starting two wars they had no idea how to win or pay for.
Never Again !!!!!
Joe Hussein Mama
May 29th, 2012
2:04 pm
R. Danneskjold — “We can all agree that leftists think it is patriotic to spend a trillion dollars you do not have”
Actually, I think we can all agree that the voices in your head have clearly been getting much louder lately.
Thulsa Doom
May 29th, 2012
2:04 pm
JamVet,
Can’t shear off that dead rat thing on Trump’s head. Its what makes him the Donald.
JamVet
May 29th, 2012
2:04 pm
frog, too funny.
Fifty seven and still a full head of non-grey hair.
Just got lucky in that department, I guess (Among others! LOL at me!)
Steve Atl
May 29th, 2012
2:05 pm
Dearest Mr. Bookman,
Does $16 TRILLION in debt and growing pose any risk whatsoever to you and you children?
Of course not, that wouldn’t support your agenda. More and more pathetic every day…Jay.
Lord Help Us
May 29th, 2012
2:05 pm
Soothsayer @ 2:02…
Right on, right on, right on…
getalife
May 29th, 2012
2:05 pm
I remember a balanced budget with a surplus and deficits don’t matter.
Moving on, lets give him four more to finish cleaning up the last gop mess.
Lord Help Us
May 29th, 2012
2:07 pm
‘We can all agree that leftists think it is patriotic to spend a trillion dollars you do not have’
Why do ALL the cons here HATE the Ryan Plan!
Chuck
May 29th, 2012
2:07 pm
So JamVet so for you taxing the rich is not about the economy but about punishing the rich, that is a little sad that you would hate these people that you do know. I am sure that the Democrate will love knowing that you are such a good little lamb, and that reason doesn’t matter anymore to you, just emotion. The Democrats and the Republicans sure have the brainwashing methods down pat.
Adam
May 29th, 2012
2:07 pm
DawgDad: It takes two parties to create a “standoff”, not one.
After all, a compromise is when the Democrats just do whatever the Republicans want, right?
Chuck
May 29th, 2012
2:09 pm
Mick, who’s kool-aid do I drink I do not support either party. Good comeback.
Lord Help Us
May 29th, 2012
2:09 pm
Do any on the right support the Ryan Plan?
Mitt does…
ragnar danneskjold
May 29th, 2012
2:10 pm
Given that we now know that Obama never finished a math class after the 10th grade, is it any wonder that his economic policies are utter failures?
Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)
May 29th, 2012
2:10 pm
“DawgDad: It takes two parties to create a “standoff”, not one”
Not neccessarily. When one side proposes a compromise that gives each side some of what they want and some of what they don’t want…but the other side says “my way or the highway” – then you have a ONE SIDED stand-off.
williebkind
May 29th, 2012
2:10 pm
Jay Bookman ‘… debt-ceiling standoff is an act of economic sabotage’
Then why dont the liberals backoff?
ragnar danneskjold
May 29th, 2012
2:11 pm
But we now can understand Obama’s game plan:
http://triblive.com/opinion/1862344-74/obama-hitler-government-wealthy-blame-chose-jews-problems-real-respect
Joe Hussein Mama
May 29th, 2012
2:11 pm
Doom — “Wrong wrong wrong. Look at the countries at the center of the crisis. Greece has been ruled by socialists for a very long time. A center right govt only recently took control in Spain. And in Portugal I believe their debt also was run up over time by leftist govts. Con govts have only recently taken power as in the last couple of years in Spain and Britain and quite frankly the problems facing those countries today- debt, is a problem run up over decades. And they took power just as the Greek tragedy began to unfold further dragging down economies continent wide.”
Correlation is not causation.
Greece has had a longstanding problem with tax cheats — even wage earners cheat the system — and as such has been slowly starving itself of revenues. *Any* government that allowed that to go on too long would face Greece’s problems.
Spain’s Socialist government (elected shortly after 9/11) wasn’t the issue in their budget woes; it was a real-estate meltdown, much like what we experienced. Same thing in Portugal, the UK and Ireland. Respectfully, describing their budget woes as being rooted in Socialist governance is neither true nor honest, particularly as Socialist governments in Scandinavia are doing okay.
Adam
May 29th, 2012
2:11 pm
Thulsa: Surely you are not suggesting that Greece is the major reason for the entire continent having a double dip recession? Because that seems to be what you are saying. And you leave out that MANY of the governments were recently taken over by conservatives, and that ALL of them pushed austerity. So what makes more sense, that Greece had some problems and caused both the initial and second recessions over there, or that we over here caused the global recession and the conservative governments that took over in multiple countries pushed austerity and made things worse?
The fact is Greece is the ONLY country you are consistently using as an example. I doubt you even know much about what actually happened and is happening in that country, actually. The most I have heard from the people using Greece as an example has been just how “far left” their government was in terms of the welfare state. You seem to think that’s all they ever spent money on, and you also conveniently ignore that its influence on the whole Eurozone is not as great as you portray.
Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)
May 29th, 2012
2:11 pm
“Given that we now know that Obama never finished a math class after the 10th grade,”
Ok, which talking head is pushing THIS one?
JohnnyReb
May 29th, 2012
2:13 pm
JHM – the child in the room when it comes to the budget and deficit is Obama. But you probably still believe the article by Jay where it was claimed Obama has been thrifty.
Mick – certainly Repubs deserve a large share of the blame for the deficit, however, they do seem to be the only ones serious about reducing it. On the Left, there is nothing but spin and creative bookkeeping.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 29th, 2012
2:13 pm
R. Danneskjold — “But we now can understand Obama’s game plan:”
Thread Godwinned. You lose.
williebkind
May 29th, 2012
2:13 pm
Doggone/GA – 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)
May 29th, 2012
2:10 pm
Are talking about the smoke filled backrooms during the passing of Obamacare?
barking frog
May 29th, 2012
2:13 pm
Jay has called out the donald.
Will the donald call back?
Lord Help Us
May 29th, 2012
2:14 pm
‘however, they do seem to be the only ones serious about reducing it.’
Oh good. Someone that can explain how the Ryan plan reduces our debt.
Thanks in advance…
Adam
May 29th, 2012
2:14 pm
I’ve seen two people here suggest that in the debt ceiling fight the Democrats should just cave.
Is this one on the talking point shows today?
JamVet
May 29th, 2012
2:15 pm
Wyoming is a strange state, politically.
It gave us an excellent human being like Alan Simpson.
And it also gave us the worst vice president in American history – Dick Cheney.
about punishing the rich
PUNISHING???!!!
If the super-rich in this country are being punished, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE punish me!
Your vocabulary needs some real serious help, Chuck…
Joe Hussein Mama
May 29th, 2012
2:15 pm
JohnnyReb — “JHM – the child in the room when it comes to the budget and deficit is Obama.”
Rejected. The GOP has made agreements and has later repudiated them.
“But you probably still believe the article by Jay where it was claimed Obama has been thrifty.”
I’m capable of speaking for myself, thanks. If the best you can do is make up things and attribute them to others, then I think the child at Jay’s table is you yourself.
Adam
May 29th, 2012
2:16 pm
Gordon: “Now that we have increased revenue, let’s get to work on those spending cuts!”. It just never happens
Well, we’ve tried the opposite: DECREASING revenue, and yet the spending continued anyway.
Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)
May 29th, 2012
2:16 pm
“Are talking about the smoke filled backrooms during the passing of Obamacare”
No. (another simple answer to a stupid question)
Adam
May 29th, 2012
2:18 pm
Are talking about the smoke filled backrooms during the passing of Obamacare
Only “fools” would depict 8 months worth of negotiation and bill reading/writing this way.
williebkind
May 29th, 2012
2:18 pm
Soothsayer
May 29th, 2012
2:02 pm
What if Osama bin laden not attacked the U.S.?
What if Al Gore would have won his home state? aaahhh thats enough
Lord Help Us
May 29th, 2012
2:18 pm
’smoke filled backrooms during the passing of Obamacare’
Yup, Boehner still smokes…
Ron Burgundy
May 29th, 2012
2:19 pm
Your right Jay. Modern RINOs are a problem, hence the tea party creation. That being said, the only reason todays repubs are a threat is due to them acting like dems.
DawgDad
May 29th, 2012
2:20 pm
“What a bunch of hypocrite liars
Speak for yourself, “The Truth”. Half-truth doesn’t qualify as truth. Reagan had a Democrat Congress which heavily influenced spending (drove much of it), and yes, there was a different mind-set at the time regarding deficits prevailing in BOTH parties.
Shine
May 29th, 2012
2:20 pm
I agree with you on this one.
williebkind
May 29th, 2012
2:20 pm
Doggone/GA – 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)
May 29th, 2012
2:16 pm
Well lets keep this simple then. How many conservatives were in those smoked filled back rooms when the decision was made? It is an easy question…I will help you Zero or None. You choose.
Richard L
May 29th, 2012
2:20 pm
Well, the last stand off was the democrats fault, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they pull the same crap again.
JohnnyReb
May 29th, 2012
2:21 pm
JHM – the Rex Nutting piece in Market Watch – WSJ that Jay referenced for his piece on Obama spending has been belittled till the cows came home. Old Rex’s credibility is in the toilet. The deficit does not rise if there is no spending (except of course for interest increasing). And, Obama is King of deficits.
All that fine wording you used in replying equals you don’t know of which you write.
barking frog
May 29th, 2012
2:21 pm
Congressional payroll and
expenses should be stopped
first in a Government
shutdown.
Gordon
May 29th, 2012
2:21 pm
Adam,
So we’ve increased revenue, and spending kept going. And we’ve decreased revenue, and spending kept going. So maybe the problem is increased spending.
We’ve proven we can increase taxes, decrease taxes, and increase spending, and all the various combinations. So what’s left? Decreased spending. Tying that to revenue increases is fine with me. But no revenue increases without meaningful spending decreases. And no “we’ll get to that later” nonsense either. We both know it won’t happen no matter who is in charge.
williebkind
May 29th, 2012
2:22 pm
Lord Help Us
May 29th, 2012
2:18 pm
You mean you think he was in those smoke filled back rooms?
Thulsa Doom
May 29th, 2012
2:22 pm
“I refer you to Europe and it’s problems with austerity as we speak”
And I refer you to the fact that Europe’s problems began before austerity measures- the debt crisis preceded austerity measures.
Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)
May 29th, 2012
2:22 pm
“How many conservatives were in those smoked filled back rooms when the decision was made?”
Here’s a counter question: how many of the features of the healthcare bill were first touted and promoted by conservatives…UNTIL they showed up in that bill?
JohnnyReb
May 29th, 2012
2:23 pm
JHM – one other thing. There are two books in the works on the last Obama vs Boehner debt ceiling debate. It should be no surprise one blames Obama and the other Boehner. We may never know the truth.
Ron Burgundy
May 29th, 2012
2:23 pm
America is the MC Hammer of countries in terms of managing finances. to say revenues is the issue is to say MC Hammer just needed to sell more Cant Touch This Albums.
America just needs to get rid of the hanger ons like Hammer should have done or else we will stat going gangsta like he did.
Doggone/GA - 999.999.999.999 (preserving my anonymity)
May 29th, 2012
2:24 pm
“the debt crisis preceded austerity measures”
And how much have the austerity measure helped?
Thulsa Doom
May 29th, 2012
2:24 pm
Lord Help Us
May 29th, 2012
2:18 pm
’smoke filled backrooms during the passing of Obamacare’
Yup, Boehner still smokes…
How quickly they forget about the seediness of the Louisiana purchase and the cornhusker kickback.
williebkind
May 29th, 2012
2:25 pm
“And I refer you to the fact that Europe’s problems began before austerity measures- the debt crisis preceded austerity measures.”
Well TD I guess the liberals can use their own style of interpretation and come up with climate change created by man.
Lord Help Us
May 29th, 2012
2:26 pm
‘You mean you think he was in those smoke filled back rooms?’
I have no idea…and neither do you (have any idea about how the legislation worked its way through our Congress). But, I do think that focusing on ’smoke filled back rooms’ is one helluva deflection.
BTW: if backroom deal cutting is one of your concerns, perhaps you should turn an eye toward the GOP…
Chuck
May 29th, 2012
2:26 pm
JamVet,
My vocabulary is fine. When you admit that raising taxes on someone who is rich in not about the economy, then it can only be about punishment. Even President Obama said that raising the taxes on the rich is not really about revenue but about fairness. I just can’t figure out how increasing the income tax on some people, while about 47% of people do not pay anything and about 26% of those people actually get back more than they put in, where is the fairness. When did being successful make you an enemy of the state?
Joe Hussein Mama
May 29th, 2012
2:27 pm
JohnnyReb — “JHM – the Rex Nutting piece in Market Watch”
The one I didn’t refer to? The one that you so kindly brought up, manufactured an opinion on for me and then tried to shove into my mouth?
“All that fine wording you used in replying equals you don’t know of which you write.”
Actually, it shows that you’ll gladly deflect by making crap up that someone didn’t say and then try to dishonestly represent it as being their opinion — as you just did to me. You should be ashamed of yourself.
JamVet
May 29th, 2012
2:27 pm
Other than the “conservative/Republican” representatives from the giant HMOs, BIG pharma and the insurance companies, I agree; there was no conservative input to post RomneyCare/Obamacare at all.
And talk about the ULTIMATE flip-floppers, look no further than this sham of a Republican Party!
The cons had tons of input.
The only voices NOT ALLOWED at the table – courtesy of said Republicans and Max Baucus – were advocates for Single Payer.
willie, on top of all of your many humiliations, you’re bringing out the global cooling meme?
Common Sense isn't very Common
May 29th, 2012
2:28 pm
JamVet
Fifty seven and still a full head of non-grey hair.
————————————————————————
Just one of the many reasons you’re hated
j/k
williebkind
May 29th, 2012
2:28 pm
I hold the conservatives responsible if they do anything until after the election. Do not compromise with the progessive liberals. This country can survive until november, then the liberals/socialists/communists/capitalist haters will be removed. I have a dream!
Gordon
May 29th, 2012
2:28 pm
Adam
May 29th, 2012
1:54 pm
Here’s what’s wrong:
Austerity is being proposed, runaway spending is NOT.
Runaway spending is built into the budget. It increases 7% a year automatically. By the end of this decade, the debt is projected to be $20T. Just keeping the debt where it is will be quite an accomplishment.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
May 29th, 2012
2:29 pm
Peadawg
Thanks for making the point.
Casual.
JohnnyReb
May 29th, 2012
2:29 pm
JHM – the only thing I’m ashamed of is trying to have an honest debate with you.
williebkind
May 29th, 2012
2:30 pm
JamVet
May 29th, 2012
2:27 pm
It just a recapitualion of the many absurd liberal proclamations.
Ron Burgundy
May 29th, 2012
2:31 pm
‘Let me get this straight . . ..
We’re going to be “gifted” with a health care
plan we are forced to purchase and
fined if we don’t,
Which purportedly covers at least
ten million more people,
without adding a single new doctor,
but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents,
written by a committee whose chairman
says he doesn’t understand it,
passed by a Congress that didn’t read it (but
exempted themselves from it),
and signed by a Dumbo President who smokes,
with funding administered by a treasury chief who
didn’t pay his taxes,
for which we’ll be taxed for four years before any
benefits take effect,
by a congress which has
already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare,
all to be overseen by an obese surgeon general
and financed by a country that’s broke!!
What the hell could possibly go wrong?’
Lord Help Us
May 29th, 2012
2:31 pm
Still looking for backers of the Ryan Plan…
Gordon, TD, willie, chuck, common…Hello?
This is a pretty important part of a discussion on deficits and all I hear from you guys on the Ryan plan is…chirp…chirp…
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
May 29th, 2012
2:32 pm
Common Sense isn’t very Common
May 29th, 2012
2:28 pm
Hey! What about me. 65 with a full head of silver hair, neatly parted down the middle…
williebkind
May 29th, 2012
2:33 pm
Ron Burgundy
May 29th, 2012
2:31 pm
Now that is cute, that is a good retort.
Ron Burgundy
May 29th, 2012
2:33 pm
I think we need to listen to “highly regarded” professors more. i mean they obviously know more about stuff then us.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 29th, 2012
2:33 pm
JohnnyReb — “JHM – the only thing I’m ashamed of is trying to have an honest debate with you.”
You’re certainly not TRYING to have an honest debate with me if you’re making up opinions on internet articles and trying to attribute those opinions to me.
JamVet
May 29th, 2012
2:34 pm
I just can’t figure out how increasing the income tax on some people, while about 47% of people do not pay anything and about 26% of those people actually get back more than they put in, where is the fairness. When did being successful make you an enemy of the state?
Because you are dishonest.
I’ll ask you one more time:
Who paid in more in federal income taxes over the past four years?
a) The high school teenager who made $3000 per year babysitting
b) Boeing, Verizon and Mattel combined? (Among MANY others)
c) 485,000 American households who earn $100,000 to $500,000.
d) 18,000 American households who make $500,000 or more
No wonder you shrink from the word justice like a vampire from daylight.
You Republicans have been poisoned and your spines have been broken. By yourselves…
Adam
May 29th, 2012
2:34 pm
Gordon: So what’s left? Decreased spending. Tying that to revenue increases is fine with me
I agree. But Republicans are too busy complaining about the debt when they can while also reneging on any promises to decrease it if it affects their plans to increase spending on the defense side. The Democrats have consistently said a mix of revenue increases and spending cuts are needed, and one offer was 15% revenue 85% cuts – still rejected. Some of the sacred cows were even in that.
I have looked at these fights and I can conclude safely that most Democrats are interested in actually tackling the problem, and most Republicans are more concerned with maintaining and gaining power.
Thulsa Doom
May 29th, 2012
2:34 pm
“And how much have the austerity measure helped?”
It depends upon which country you’re talking about but austerity, just like ’stimulus spending” or any other economic policy, is not really going to work in the short run anyway if the whole continent is drifting towards recession as a result of the debt crisis to begin with. And as has been seen in the past under austerity it is designed to get worse before it gets better. You’re going to have to go through a great deal of short term pain similar to the 81-82 recession here in the U.S. before growth can resume again.
And for the record austerity in the European sense means a slashing of govt spending along with a steep increase in taxation which I’m not in agreement with. Even Keynesians economic philosophy is not in agreement with higher taxes during recessionary times so in that respect I do not agree with the particular austerity measures in place- only that they are going to have to gradually slash govt spending.
williebkind
May 29th, 2012
2:35 pm
Lord Help Us
May 29th, 2012
2:31 pm
Well tweety bird that is the plan.
Ron Burgundy
May 29th, 2012
2:36 pm
Mr. DeCarolis was considering firing their
Basketball Coach…….
Craig Robinson
after an 8 -11 start (2-5) in the Pac 10 conference).
When word reached Washington , Undersecretary of Education
Martha Kanter
was dispatched to Corvallis, WA with $17 million
in stimulus money for the university.
Thankfully,Craig Robinson’s job is safe for another year
Now comes the interesting part of our story….
For those of you unfamiliar with Coach Robinson,
he just so happens to be the brother in law of none other than our country’s beloved President Obama,
NOW YOU’RE CATCHING ON……
that’s right he is the brother of Michelle Robinson Obama!
But hey, can’t we all come to the conclusion that Coach Robinson’s job security was all just a coincidence?
I’m sure of it …. Aren’t You?
Thank Goodness For The Stimulus!!! Our tax dollars at work!!!!!
But $17 million for one job? I wonder what mine is worth?
HDB
May 29th, 2012
2:36 pm
williebkind
May 29th, 2012
2:10 pm
The question you SHOLD be asking is: When will conservatives WAKE UP and see that they were the ones that caused the credit DOWNGRADE by holding the debt limit hostage???
Chuck
May 29th, 2012
2:26 pm
” I just can’t figure out how increasing the income tax on some people, while about 47% of people do not pay anything and about 26% of those people actually get back more than they put in, where is the fairness.”
Question: Are you throwing darts at your beloved patron saint….Ronald Reagan?? It’s because of his passage of the EITC that many are getting back more than they were taxed….the fastest way out of poverty!! Being successful doesn’t make one an enemy of the state…but as Willie Sutton said for his reason that he robbed banks: “That’s where the money is!” Where do you think you’d get the money from…a poor person or a rich person?? A return to the Clinton tax rates is what many have asked for…and look how the eceonomy GREW!!!
Peadawg
May 29th, 2012
2:37 pm
“Peadawg
Thanks for making the point.”
Guess you ain’t got no linky. Considerig your (continued) dodge, I’ll accept your surrender.