The bait-and-switch tactic driving Georgia’s education debate
The school-choice and voucher movement has long tried to sell itself to the public as a public-spirited crusade to allow low-income, often minority and inner-city students to escape bad public schools.
However, critics of the movement have long suspected that it was something else entirely. They have argued that the movement was actually an ill-disguised scam to divert public taxpayer money to private schools that serve a middle-class clientele, with the plight of poor students being used as a cynical cover.
Sadly, there is overwhelming evidence that in Georgia, the second interpretation is the correct interpretation.
The biggest success of the school-choice movement in Georgia came in 2008, when the state Legislature passed a “scholarship program” supposedly intended to help lower-income students attend private schools. Under the law, individuals and corporations who donate to a “student scholarship organization” can receive a dollar-for-dollar credit against their state taxes. In other words, if you donate $2,000 to a SSO, you can deduct $2,000 directly from your Georgia tax bill.
The SSO is then supposed to use those contributions to help defray tuition for low-income students. But in most cases, that’s not how it works. Instead, affluent families and relatives of private-school students are donating money under the guise that it will be used for “scholarships,” and are getting a dollar-for-dollar tax reduction on that donation. They then collect the scholarship that they funded in the form of lower tuition. It operates as a direct taxpayer subsidy of private schools.
For example, today’s New York Times reports on how the Georgia law was explained to parents attending a meeting last year at Gwinnett Christian Academy:
“A very small percentage of that money will be set aside for a needs-based scholarship fund,” Wyatt Bozeman, an administrator at the school near Atlanta, said during an informational session. “The rest of the money will be channeled to the family that raised it.”
A handout circulated at the meeting instructed families to donate, qualify for a tax credit and then apply for a scholarship for their own children, many of whom were already attending the school.
“If a student has friends, relatives or even corporations that pay Georgia income tax, all of those people can make a donation to that child’s school,” added an official with a scholarship group working with the school.
The exchange at Gwinnett Christian Academy, a recording of which was obtained by The New York Times, is just one example of how scholarship programs have been twisted to benefit private schools at the expense of the neediest children….
Most of the private schools are religious. Nearly a quarter of the participating schools in Georgia require families to make a profession of religious faith, according to their Web sites. Many of those schools adhere to a fundamentalist brand of Christianity. A commonly used sixth-grade science text retells the creation story contained in Genesis, omitting any other explanation. An economics book used in some high schools holds that the Antichrist — a world ruler predicted in the New Testament — will one day control what is bought and sold.
Is this an example of a well-intended law that has unfortunately gone awry? No, it is not. Despite what they have claimed publicly, it is a law that is working precisely as its supporters intended. Furthermore, in funneling state tax dollars to private and often religious-based institutions, it is in violation of the Georgia constitution, which states that “no money shall ever be taken from the public treasury, directly or indirectly, in aid of any church, sect, cult, or religious denomination or of any sectarian institution.”
The charge that the law is being used precisely as intended may seem harsh, but the comparison with a similar program in neighboring Florida is telling. In Florida, only students from families that are at or below 185 percent of the poverty line may receive scholarships. Georgia law contains no income limit on recipients.
Florida law requires that private schools receiving significant tax-derived scholarship money report the performance of its students on standardized tests. Georgia law has no such requirement, and there is no accountability for the education that state tax dollars are providing.
Florida also requires that private schools benefiting from such programs release demographic information about students receiving the scholarships. Georgia schools are not required to collect or report such data.
These and other problems with the Georgia law are laid out in a well-researched, comprehensive report by the Atlanta-based Southern Education Foundation. Initially, the SEF was intrigued by the new law, which seemed to mesh nicely with its own mission of supporting “creative solutions to ensure fairness and excellence in education for low-income students from preschool through higher education.”
However, as SEF officials looked more closely at the law and how it operates, they discovered that it was not working at all as its proponents had claimed:
“(The program) lacks transparency regarding contributors, beneficiaries, and the criteria by which scholarships are awarded or even the size and number of scholarships awarded. Nor do the schools involved appear to be subject to any accountability regarding the academic standards in force or academic outcomes of their students. There are no income limits for eligibility and, in the absence of a mandate to report demographic information on participating students, it is difficult to see how the program is meeting its stated policy objective of increasing the affordability of private schools for low income families.”
In fact, rather than serve as a lifeline for poor minority students seeking to escape bad public schools, the SEF report found that “it appears from available sources that the Georgia tax credit scholarships have done little more than support white students to attend schools that already have extreme racial isolation.”
The lack of accountability consciously built into the bill has had other consequences as well. For example, the AJC reported earlier this year that three people running a private scholarship fund in Cumming are being paid $175,600 each to administer the money flowing through that supposedly charitable organization. Those salaries are in effect being paid with taxpayers’ money that is flowing through those organizations with little or no state oversight, and administrators at other poorly regulated SSOs are also collecting six-figure incomes.
Information about the salaries was obtained through federal tax records, not through state data. In fact, state legislators have made it a criminal offense for anyone to release a whole range of financial and tax data regarding the state scholarship program, the organizations that administer them or the schools that receive the money.
The cynicism and deception involved in passing and implementing the Georgia scholarship program is impressive. It also serves as a warning sign regarding a proposed constitutional amendment that will go before the voters in November that would strip local school districts of the power to control the creation of charter schools.
The proposed amendment is being pushed by the same groups and politicians who pushed the scholarship legislation, using similar arguments about trying to help those trapped in underperforming schools. Their track record suggests that their concern is insincere, and that their larger goal is to undermine public education by diverting public dollars to finance schools pursuing a private agenda.
– Jay Bookman
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488 comments Add your comment
Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
May 22nd, 2012
10:32 am
Crafty bahstads aren’t these folks.
Maximum
May 22nd, 2012
10:33 am
Ignorance is bliss for contemporary Republicans. Good luck preparing the next generation for productive adult lives, when being indoctrinated by religious zealots with little regard for reality.
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
10:35 am
Is this an example of a well-intended law that has unfortunately gone awry? No, it is not.
Of course not. It reeked of dogsh-t from the beginning, and anyone familiar with the thieving, lying, theocratic scum behind it knew how it would be used.
Thanks for shedding some light on this.
(And I’ll enjoy watching said theocrats come here and try to explain how you’re so very wrong.)
Peter
May 22nd, 2012
10:35 am
Kind of like the FaceBook IPO……..
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
10:36 am
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again — parents already HAVE the right to choose schools for their kids. They can move to get into their preferred school’s district. They can shell out of pocket for private schools if they don’t like the local public schools. They can even home-school if they want.
But who’d have thought that the GOP, who are ostensibly OPPOSED to expanding entitlements, would be so all-fired FOR this one?
You’ve got school choice. Exercise it if you want, but get your hand out of my pocket and stop expecting me to subsidize your lifestyle choices.
(I love it when I can use conservative words against conservative arguments)
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
10:36 am
But ahhhh… god forbid we allow innovation in the form of charters… Granted Dealio is now on board with charters, but other wingnut rubes are not…
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
10:37 am
Not “first”, but completely pizzed.
I am sick of politicians using taxpayer money to line the pockets of themselves and their friends.
The author(s) of this bill should be in prison.
“In fact, state legislators have made it a criminal offense for anyone to release a whole range of financial and tax data regarding the state scholarship program, the organizations that administer them or the schools that receive the money.”
That’s bullsht!
Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
May 22nd, 2012
10:37 am
An economics book used in some high schools holds that the Antichrist — a world ruler predicted in the New Testament — will one day control what is bought and sold.
Really? LOL. Muslims aren’t the enemy; kooky christian fundamentalists are the true enemy of the U.S.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
May 22nd, 2012
10:39 am
Seems like Georgia Politicians have figured out that you can’t go back to slavery if EVERYBODY is educated…In order to get business here we definitely need a working poor (slave) class… for sure…
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
10:39 am
As a parent of two in a private school, I too have recieved emails from that private school’s administration explaining how to game the system as well…
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
10:39 am
Jay
No surprises here. I wonder how many of your detractors who detest “those people” getting taxpayer money will have problems with this. I’m sure they’ll write it off as the taxpayer getting their money back or something all the while completely ignoring the fact that it’s completely illegal per the Georgia Constitution.
This will be fun reading all the deflection and stuff….
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
10:40 am
Right wing, with anonymity guaranteed, could you forward those emails to me at jbookman@ajc.com?
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
10:41 am
Get’em Jay!!!!!!!!!
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
10:42 am
three people running a private scholarship fund in Cumming are being paid $175,600 each
Lord, you know I’m not much of a prayin’ man, but please please please, let the money trail lead to rent boys and meth.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
10:42 am
Jay’s Spider-Sense has detected a story!
Mr. Holmes
May 22nd, 2012
10:43 am
Ignorance is bliss for contemporary Republicans.
Sadly, I’m not sure ignorance is the whole story. If such ignorance were dispelled, would we really expect voters aligned to the controlling party in Georgia to vote any differently? They would say there is nothing wrong with diverting their own tax dollars to ends that primarily benefit them, regardless of the chicanery employed to do it. They would say, if the left were in the majority, it would do the exact same thing in raising public funding for public schools.
And they’d be right. Except at least there are some controls on public education to keep them from becoming out & out indoctrination mills. The same cannot be said for the alternative.
Aquagirl
May 22nd, 2012
10:43 am
I wonder how many of your detractors who detest “those people” getting taxpayer money will have problems with this.
My rough estimate: between zero and none.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
10:44 am
Jay, is there any serious effort to repeal this constitutional abortion and shed light on the maggots that wrote and passed it?
This is the kind of krap that made me stop identifying as a repub (other krap made me stop identifying as a dem).
skipper
May 22nd, 2012
10:45 am
Jay,
No offense, but with the cluster (and it IS a cluster) that APS has become, people (not all, but many) who truly value an education are willing to do what is necessary to get their kids, $, etc. to another school. Its not just poor kids…..its the whole mentality in many cases where kids in much of the “bad” areas, or at least their parents, do not put a priority on education. Folks get screamed, yelled, and cussed at for saying or thinking this, but the numbers speak loudly!
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
10:46 am
Bro – Explain how it is illegal per the state constitution. And if so, why hasn’t suit been brought challenging it?
Stevie Ray...Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right here I am....
May 22nd, 2012
10:47 am
JAY
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
10:47 am
BTW Jay, thanks for this story. I mean it. This needs to be on the minds of EVERY taxpayer.
Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
May 22nd, 2012
10:49 am
I can easily see Conservatives rationalizing this.
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
10:49 am
Skipper, the folks driving this kind of legislation don’t have kids in APS and could care less about APS. They, like you, are simply trying to use that as an excuse to hide their real agenda of getting taxpayer dollars to support their own private schools.
Stevie Ray...Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right here I am....
May 22nd, 2012
10:51 am
JAY
I believe all these christian private schools are not for profits. Seems some rep not on Ralph Reeds extortion train would figure a means to threaten that status. These evangelicals make me ill with their political muster enjoyed with tax exempt money…we all know those corruptresentatives garnering cash and votes pushing a prehistoric philosophical agenda are not acting very christian like in their discrimination…
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
10:53 am
I can easily see Conservatives rationalizing this.
well, we already have the “but but APS is super evil!” card played.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
10:54 am
(ir)Rational
Jay pointed it out in his essay, but here it is for you in black, white, and digital…
http://sos.georgia.gov/elections/GAConstitution.pdf
SECTION II.
ORIGIN AND STRUCTURE OF GOVERNMENT
[...]
Paragraph VII. Separation of church and state. No money shall ever be taken from the public treasury, directly or indirectly, in aid of any church , sect, cult, or religious denomination or of any sectarian institution.
Pg 4
Jm
May 22nd, 2012
10:54 am
This law is stupid
Mainly for punching more holes in a screwed up sate income tax code
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
10:54 am
Finn – I’m not going to try and rationalize it. And I’m not responsible for it (especially considering I’m not the one who voted for the law, lobbied for it, asked for it, wrote it or was in anyway responsible for it), therefore I don’t have to make excuses for it. Is it wrong? Probably. Is it legal today? Yes. Therefore, I take advantage of it for my nephew. My sister’s family can’t afford to put him in private school on their own, and the schools where they live are atrocious. I had already made up my mind to give what I could before the law was passed, and now I just do it this way to get the tax break. If they change the law, I’ll just go back to giving the money directly to my sister.
Katie
May 22nd, 2012
10:55 am
Oh yes, Rightwing Troll. PLEASE forward those emails to Mr. Bookman! I am so pleased when corruption is uncovered. But it seems that, all too often, the uncovering isn’t enough because it goes conspicuously unnoticed or ignored. Americans (particularly those on the far right) seem so interested in screaming their party lines and supporting the polarization of politics. But so few are willing to actually examine real issues. Fixing a broken system (or should I say “fixing a fixed system”) is hard work. Best of luck in continuing to uncover this perverse use of taxpayer funds, Mr. Bookman, and in contributing to a solution!
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
10:56 am
skipper – “No offense, but with the cluster (and it IS a cluster) that APS has become, people (not all, but many) who truly value an education are willing to do what is necessary to get their kids, $, etc. to another school.”
What happened to all that talk about “self reliance” and those bootstraps I hear so much about?
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
10:56 am
Bro – I wasn’t looking at it from the fact that these were church schools. Mostly because the money doesn’t only go to church schools. In that case, yeah, it probably does smack at that. However, I’m paying into the scholarship and I’m getting a tax break for doing so. If I donate large sums of money to a church, I can write that off on my taxes also. How is that any different?
skipper
May 22nd, 2012
10:56 am
@JAY,
My kids are grown and gone now……so I have no agenda. I do, however, have college friends, etc. who DO have kids still in school that are fed up with the MESS THE EDUCATION SYSEM HAS BECOME! Throwing $ at it will not work. And by the way, many of the former “white-flight” academies in the rural areas have black students now. Some of their parents have had enough as well. Amazing; put kids where education and discipline as opposed to the “feel-good rule-of-the-day” rule, and things work out!
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
10:57 am
(ir)Rational
I’m guessing nobody’s brought suit because, up until this point, the only people who were privy to the scam were the ones benefitting from it. I don’t know of a single person who’s gonna file suit AGAINST their gravy train, but that’s just me.
——————————-
Aquagirl
Only time will tell if you’re right or not.
Stevie Ray...Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right here I am....
May 22nd, 2012
10:58 am
Jay,
Got time on my hands today…who can I email to offer my severe dismay at this crap?
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
10:58 am
To honest with you Jay, it was during the school last year and they were on a laptop that I decommissioned and wiped clean. I’ll look on my workstation at the shop and see if they were per chance downloaded there.
As a parent at a private school, you get used to the constant begging for money and tend to just skip past the constant stream of requests.
Also, I ignored them because the former Mrs. Troll worked at the private school in question and as such we were not eligible for the “scholarships”.
Stevie Ray...Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right here I am....
May 22nd, 2012
10:59 am
“cult” seems to be the key word in the phase offered above…that’s how these nutjobs carry on….
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
10:59 am
If I donate large sums of money to a church, I can write that off on my taxes also. How is that any different?
You don’t get a discounted price for going to church that matches your donation while collecting that very tax break for your donation.
can not trust Georgia politicians
May 22nd, 2012
10:59 am
If the Georgia lottery funds do not put a cap on the income as far as who is entitled to receive the HOPE scholarships, how can this state be trusted to distribute the funds to the schools that need the resources the most?
Aquagirl
May 22nd, 2012
10:59 am
I’m not going to try and rationalize it.
….followed immediately by rationalization.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
11:00 am
irrational-careful with thinking a private church school is all that. More attention is paid to jeebus training than to science, math, etc. Your grandchild will probably need remedial classes when entering a real educational program, especially in science. And good colleges will pass her over for another student that went the traditional route.
For the most part, private schools are a waste of money.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 22nd, 2012
11:00 am
Well, put me down as somebody willing to run a private scholarship fund for these kids. I could use the $175,600. I know it’s just chicken-feed to the folks that raise the kids, but it will sure lift me out of near-poverty. Heck, I can even see a doublewide in my future and maybe getting the heck out of Simpsons Trailer Park and into one of them Gated Communities.
Anyhow, this scheme sure is slick. Now don’t get me wrong. I’m all for getting kids out of the public schools full of Those People and into a private school that will teach them Genesis along with how the gullet works. They don’t get that in the public schools where they ain’t allowed to pray and they’re taught about how they come from monkeys and other heathen stuff. But this is slicker than any of old Nathan Deal’s schemes to get the guvmint to pay him to run a private business. I’m just in awe.
Anyhow, if any of you scholarship folks need help in running the scholarships, you can find me at Simpsons Trailer Park anytime after 5 every day except on those nights when I go to Billy Bob’s. You can’t miss it. It’s the 2nd trailer on the right after you come in. It’s got a old wore out washing machine in the front yard. Have a good day everybody and let’s give Private Education a big boost.
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
11:00 am
(ir)Rational, one difference is that the write-off of tax money is dollar for dollar. You in effect “donate” $2,000 to your own kid’s scholarship, and you get $2,000 taken off your tax bill.
Your contribution to charity is deducted from your taxable income, which means you only get a fraction of its value in lower taxes.
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
11:01 am
Thank you, Jay and all others working to shed light on this and similar issues. I am most sincere when I say, May God Bless You for your efforts. And a pox on those that would orchestrate such scams.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
11:01 am
My kids are grown and gone now……so I have no agenda. I do, however, have college friends, etc. who DO have kids still in school that are fed up with the MESS THE EDUCATION SYSEM HAS BECOME! Throwing $ at it will not work.
Neither does cutting $$ work. So what do you propose to do that will work, genius?
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
11:01 am
Becky – “For the most part, private schools are a waste of money.”
Yes, but it gives the parents bragging rights while keeping their kids away from the riff raff.
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
11:02 am
Jay – “You in effect “donate” $2,000 to your own kid’s scholarship, and you get $2,000 taken off your tax bill.”
Otherwise known as “money laundering” in most criminal circles.
Grasshopper
May 22nd, 2012
11:03 am
If the government run schools weren’t in such pi**-poor shape and so bad at doing their job this wouldn’t be an issue, would it?
Stevie Ray...Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right here I am....
May 22nd, 2012
11:03 am
Does anyone know what is the position of the Georgia Association of Educators on this issue?
JamVet
May 22nd, 2012
11:03 am
of getting taxpayer dollars to support their own private schools.
Man, am I sick of these GOP mooches and their welfare queen wives, their poor work ethic and their entitlement society mentality!
I bet most of them have big screen TVs, fancy cell phones and drive Cadillacs.
And all of them just begging for more of their beloved nanny state government to pay their way!
And as a godly true conservative, Newt noted, those lazy, shiftless kids of theirs should be put to work as public school janitors…
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
11:03 am
Butch Cassidy-not much bragging rights when junior can’t get into college.
godless heathen
May 22nd, 2012
11:04 am
And you can be assured that not one single Democratic voter is taking advantage of this scam.
Grasshopper
May 22nd, 2012
11:05 am
“And you can be assured that not one single Democratic voter is taking advantage of this scam.”
Oh no, they are all way too civic-minded to engage in such tom-foolery.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:05 am
Jam
You are exactly right…….. It is welfare for the middle and upper middle class disguised as something else……….
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
11:06 am
Grasshopper – “If the government run schools weren’t in such pi**-poor shape and so bad at doing their job this wouldn’t be an issue, would it?”
Judging from the comments I’ve seen on this board over the years, it shouldn’t be an issue at all. What with everyone taking care of their own, not relying on the government to save them and constantly pulling on those bootstraps, I’m surprised an initiative such as this was even needed.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:06 am
godless
I’m sure that many Dems are in fact taking advantage of this program, but wrong is still wrong……… All day long
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
11:07 am
Jay – True/good point.
Aquagirl – No, I didn’t attempt to rationalize the bill, which was what I was saying. I said I used it because it was legal today, and if it stops being legal, I’ll go back to helping pay for him to go to school without getting the break.
Becky – I said absolutely nothing at all about helping send my nephew to church school. If they do that, they lose my money and they know that. But sending your child to a school that (honestly) has maybe 4 good teachers, and three of them are on the brink of retiring (it is amazing I turned out as well as I did and that is debatable), and doesn’t allow certain kids to use the school code on the SAT to keep their stats high is much worse than sending him to a private school.
Bro – You have to pay to go to church? I don’t remember that from when I was there.
I understand your point though.
saywhat?
May 22nd, 2012
11:07 am
To put it politely, Georgia republicans are immoral thieving scum.
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
11:07 am
If the government run schools weren’t in such pi**-poor shape and so bad at doing their job this wouldn’t be an issue, would it?
Sure it would. The overwhelming evidence says that private schools do no better than public schools and in some cases worse with kids from the same socio-economic backgrounds. And if private schools wanted to prove otherwise, why not have them take the same standardized tests required of public schools?
Why are the same legislators who insist on multiple high-stakes standardized testing in the public arena so opposed to testing what private schools produce, particularly when, as in this case, those private schools get public dollars?
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:08 am
“What with everyone taking care of their own, not relying on the government to save them and constantly pulling on those bootstraps, I’m surprised an initiative such as this was even needed.”
Will probably be the best post of the day………………….
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
11:09 am
At least when the AJC uncovered the misbehaving in the APS, the government jumped on that bandwagon and did something. In this case, will we see Perdue’s successor apply the same level of action and see that changes for the good are made. How about some simple common sense accountability requirements for openers. Our GaGOP “leaders” could even lump that effort in with their planned work on ethics reform. I’ll hold my breath.
Recon 0311 2533
May 22nd, 2012
11:10 am
The public school system nationally is in shambles as evidenced by this recent incident in N.C. where a social studies teacher berates a student for criticizing Obama after the teacher criticized Romney. We read about incidents such as this all too frequently. Granted there are many fine public schools with excellent teachers but the wheat from the chafe must be separated and if it takes competition from charter schools to achieve it we must disregard the voice from America’s far-left condemning it.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
11:11 am
irrational-I apologize on assuming you were helping send your nephew to a church school. I do still feel it is wrong what you are doing legal or not.
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
11:12 am
“And you can be assured that not one single Democratic voter is taking advantage of this scam.”
Oh no, they are all way too civic-minded to engage in such tom-foolery.
If that’s the motivational factor you tools need to fight for change, then go for it.
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
11:12 am
North Carolina, nice place visit and all that but isn’t this dicussion about what the scumbags here in Georgia are doing.
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
11:12 am
Ok, we’re up to three “but gubmint skoolz is so bad y’all deserve this!” posts.
Four? Do I hear four?
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
11:14 am
(ir)Rational
skipper
May 22nd, 2012
11:14 am
@Brocephus,
Discipline, a desire for education, not having to have the Gestapo having to stand by to make the bad kids behave, the three “R”s, not having an assistant to the assistant on the dole, etc. These would be a great start! Classrooms turned back over to the teachers….disruptive students not coddled and protected by the administration, and competant school boards (once again, see APS) would be several other good ways to start. Too much emphasis on B.S. costs too much money! You think the system is working???
getalife
May 22nd, 2012
11:14 am
How do vouchers fix the education system?
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 22nd, 2012
11:15 am
I read about this tax/scholarship program when I recently enrolled my son in private (non-sectarian) high school. It seemed “strange” to me, so I bypassed it and wrote the tuition check (twice what I paid to attend a year of law school less than 20 years ago..choke) – a worthwhile investment IMHO because even though our public high school in Cobb County is a “Top 10″ there are 2,000+ students and recent budget cuts mean the class sizes are increasing. If you want your child to attend private school you need to suck it up, make sacrifices, apply for private financial aid….but not fund it by avoiding your own tax obligations . I see this as an abuse by both the schools and the parents. Shame on them….maybe they consider me a fool for not taking advantage of a $2k per year “tax savings”, but sometimes you have to do what feels moral/ethical in your gut rather than what the law will allow you to get away with and my morals are not for sale, especially not for a mere $2k.
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
11:15 am
I didn’t get into it in the piece above, which was complicated enough. But the scam has another interesting aspect:
State law says that a student first has to be “enrolled” in a public school before being eligible for a scholarship. Proponents of the law told the public that such a requirement would ensure that only transferees from troubled public schools would be able to benefit from such scholarships. In other words, those already attending private schools would not be able to take financial advantage.
However, those same proponents then quietly told their private-school constituency that the “enroll” language was specifically chosen because it was so easy to get around. Note that it doesn’t require that student actually “attend” a public school, only “enroll.”
The private school parents were told to trot down to their local public school, “enroll” their kids there even though they had no intention of attending, and then Voila! — they were scholarship eligible!!! The fact that at least some of the schools and parents participating in the scam were doing so to pursue a Christian education didn’t seem to faze them.
Again, this was a loophole inserted into the law on purpose, to allow just that kind of scam.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
11:15 am
dB
Is that counting Recon’s???
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
11:18 am
Becky – And you’re perfectly within your rights to think what I’m doing is wrong, but if it is legal, I’ll continue doing it. It is my money, and like I said, I had already made the decision to help him before this became law, and this is how I choose to help him.
Grasshopper
May 22nd, 2012
11:18 am
“Ok, we’re up to three “but gubmint skoolz is so bad y’all deserve this!” posts.”
You’re right – there are absolutely no problems in public schools. Parents sending their kids elsewhere are rubes. Westminster marist and Lovett are all jokes academically, right.
What planet are you people on?
Aquagirl
May 22nd, 2012
11:19 am
No, I didn’t attempt to rationalize the bill, which was what I was saying. I said I used it because it was legal today, and if it stops being legal
I’m sure you’re e-mailing someone to stop this legalized theft right now.
Sorry, (ir), people who take advantage of a clearly dicey situation while remaining quiet are rationalizing.
Sorry if that sounds harsh, at least you’re willing to stand up and say what you’re doing. I’ve done things that I knew were absolutely legal but also absolutely not up to my standards (yes, I have some) and I long ago left the “it’s legal” thing by the wayside. It’s not worth it to me.
Jack
May 22nd, 2012
11:21 am
Those doggone folks contributing $2K are messing up everything. Just imagine, some folks trying to help their kids: they oughta be run out of town.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
11:21 am
skipper
Did I state anywhere that I thought the system was working??? I thought not, so don’t try to build your “burning man” by putting words into my mouth. You can’t discipline a desire for education into someone. The first, and most important thing I can think of to correct our educational system is to get the politicians AND politics out of the system. Years ago, our public systems educated the very people who staffed NASA and every other organization, both public and private, that built this country into what it is today. The reason our system is in disarray is because we’ve allowed politics to encompass education. Anything politicians get involved with has a way of getting effed up. Remove the source of the contamination, and you can begin to rehab the system. It has nothing to do with money, discipline, or anything else.
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
11:22 am
Maybe we need to get Sherrif Joe involved to get to the bottom of this. Any thoughts Mighty Righty?
Recon 0311 2533
May 22nd, 2012
11:22 am
Scam? Allowing parents to choose the education environment that they feel is best for their children. Bull $hit the scam is pretending everything is just fine in every public school and disallowing parents tax relief should they wish to choose alternatives.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
11:23 am
ARMW
If everyone else thought like you, there would be no need for ethics reform in Georgia.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
11:23 am
grasshopper-I have no problem with where your children go to school as long as YOU pay for it and not me. Legalized theft indeed.
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
11:23 am
Bros, I believe “he who puts the ‘Reek’ in Recon” does make it four now, yes.
barking frog
May 22nd, 2012
11:23 am
Self designation of use of
your taxes is not necessarily
a bad thing and neither is
religious segregation. It
may even help public schools by freeing them
from the influence of these
parents.
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
11:23 am
I do still feel it is wrong what you are doing legal or not.
I am not judging the parents who are working this system as it was intended. I am judging the scum that got this pushed through in the first place.
And to get just a little farther afield, I should point out I also don’t judge the parents who took advantage of crazy-ass mortgage deals during the previous decade, knowing that when the rates rose they’d not be able to pay and eventually would be foreclosed/evicted. The system made it all perfectly legal, and these folks were able to send their kids to better schools as a result.
I’ve pointed this out time and again, and it’s astonishing how little sympathy those folks get from the “free marketeer” types here. If you’re a big shot and you declare bankruptcy and stiff a bunch of vendors, hey, it’s just business. If you’re a nobody and you have an opportunity to live in a nice neighborhood for a few years, you’re scum. CRA-created, Barney-Frank-backed scum. Or so I hear.
And again, I think about this, and truly believe this sign says it all.
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
11:24 am
Jack -”Just imagine, some folks trying to help their kids: they oughta be run out of town.”
Well, if they’re using methods that are just short of money laundering, then I would say yes. What next, are you going to be advocating ponzi schemes in the name of childrens education?
Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
May 22nd, 2012
11:24 am
keeping their kids away from the riff raff.
This is what you are paying for in the first place. “Level of education” is the excuse used to justify it. Sounds better than “I don’t want my kid growing up around those people.”
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:25 am
Bro
People on here will put words in your mouth and make assertions and conclusions about what you are saying in no time flat
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
11:25 am
Skipper, if you took kids with the same demographic background as those at Westminster, put them into public schools and spent a minimum of $20,000 a year educating each one of them — $22,700 for grades 6-12 — like they do at Westminster, I bet public schools could do a pretty damn fine job.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
May 22nd, 2012
11:26 am
Del,
I don’t think anyone is pretending everything is fine with the public school system, but my concern is if Georgia is so concerned about education, why do they cut its budget to the bone? As to this post, how it the world can you not condemn it and still call yourself moral?
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
May 22nd, 2012
11:26 am
good to know what jayyysus would do with his schools
yknow, suffer the children, for they are the kingdom of god,
and the meek shall inherit…..
and all that crap, right Georgia Republicans?
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
11:27 am
Recon
Dude, nobody’s claiming that the public school system is all hunky dory ok, so calm your conservative reflex, to bash everything government, down a bit, okies??? The scam is in the fact that the tax credit is nothing but money laundering taxpayer funds to schools, some of which are religious organizations by proxy. That runs afoul of the Georgia Constitution with the passage Jay stated and I provided a link for.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
11:27 am
Aquagirl – We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one. Like I said, I would be giving the money regardless of the tax implications. I want my nephew to have good opportunities in life. The tax implications weren’t taken into account when I made that decision, and won’t be if things change. Like I said, if you want to call it rationalizing, go right ahead. I don’t believe it is, and neither you nor I are likely to change our minds.
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
11:28 am
Jay, I’m pretty sure they have to attend a public school for at least a year. Another reason we weren’t able to avail ourselves of the program. Both little Trolls have only gone to the the private school for thier entire school careers.
I will say this, the oldest of the little Trolls switched this school year to a middle school in East Cobb and is on honor roll after a dismal performance for the last couple years in the private environment, and has had a fraction of the homework. Me and the ex Mrs. Troll are so pleased by his performance and experience, the second little Troll will be making the switch next year.
Read into that what you will, I endured the cost of the private for 6 years because of the high level of parental involvement and the “family” like environment, but I have been underwhelmed by the over all academic performance, and especially the overloading of young children with uneccessary and volumnous amounts of homework… Kids need to be kids, and 2-3 hours of homework a night is excessive for most grades, even high schoolers…
Liberal Chicks are UGLY
May 22nd, 2012
11:28 am
How liberals parent:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/21/parents-child-stuck-washing-machine-surveillance-video_n_1533063.html
Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
May 22nd, 2012
11:29 am
The schools aren’t in pis poor shape. Your kid gets out of the school what he/she puts into learning and doing the work. Are some teachers better than others? sure. Is there a “perfect” learning environment? Sure (some of us get maybe one great teacher that positively affects us the rest of our lives.)
The “piss poor” argument is just a rationalization to get their kids out of schools with all the other kids.
Paul
May 22nd, 2012
11:29 am
“Why are the same legislators who insist on multiple high-stakes standardized testing in the public arena so opposed to testing what private schools produce, particularly when, as in this case, those private schools get public dollars?”
That, and the lead article, get right back to the common denominator: money. I can understand people who want the credit on their taxes going for it, but people with no kids who are championing this in the name of ‘freedom’ and ‘no government control’ and ‘ parents’ rights!’?
Just shows the power of ideology over the reasoning process.
Regarding the ‘ A commonly used sixth-grade science text retells the creation story contained in Genesis, omitting any other explanation. An economics book used in some high schools holds that the Antichrist — a world ruler predicted in the New Testament — will one day control what is bought and sold’
Care to guess how quickly the support for deceptive funding for charter schools would evaporate if the report had said ” A commonly used sixth-grade science text retells the creation story : “Allah created the sun, the moon, and the planets, each with their own individual courses or orbits. “It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon; all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course” omitting any other explanation.
An economics book used in some high schools states “Those who consume interest shall not rise…Allah has permitted trading but forbidden interest…” (Koran 2:275)
Recon 0311 2533
May 22nd, 2012
11:29 am
Well we’ll always have the dip $hit 10% that just can’t tolerate differing view points. That’s true practically everywhere and not only on a blog. later
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
11:30 am
They BOTH
I know. I think Jay should have a FNM thread dedicated to the Burning Man festival in honor of all the strawmen that are built here and set ablaze by putting words in people’s mouth. Only a coward chooses to fight a shadow instead of being a man and debating what’s actually said.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
11:31 am
Jay – Skipper, if you took kids with the same demographic background as those at Westminster, put them into public schools and spent a minimum of $20,000 a year educating each one of them — $22,700 for grades 6-12 — like they do at Westminster, I bet public schools could do a pretty damn fine job
Kind of a hit and run, as I have somewhere I have to run to, but I would love to see your reasoning of this as the states have thrown gobs of money at government schools and not gotten better results from the money. Last I heard, the average was somewhere around $12,000 per student. I could be way off on that, and don’t have the time to go look it up, but I’ll come back later to check it out. I really am curious as to your reasoning though.
larry
May 22nd, 2012
11:31 am
What i would like to know is , who introduced the “scholarship program” legislation in the first place and second, who introduced legislation to make it a crime to release information , including financial and tax data ?
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
11:31 am
Wow, 2 pages into a Jay Bookman blog, and no one has blamed Obama. Kudos!
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
11:32 am
The private school parents were told to trot down to their local public school, “enroll” their kids there even though they had no intention of attending, and then Voila! — they were scholarship eligible!!!
“Oy to the freakin’ vey, the things they do in my name.”
–Josh Ben-Joseph
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
11:32 am
Well we’ll always have the dip $hit 10% that just can’t tolerate differing view points. That’s true practically everywhere and not only on a blog. later
Yep, they usually leave here in a huff instead of staying and debating. Enjoy your day.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:33 am
It is one thing for an individual to send their kids to private schools for whatever reason they chose to do. It is a totally different issue for that tuition to be subsidized.
It seems some on here are intentionally muddying the waters to make appear that those against this program do not want people sending their kids to private school.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
11:36 am
tbs-parents can send their children to the moon for all I care if they pay for it and not me.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:36 am
Bro @ 11:30
well said
If I say something that is wrong and my facts are not correct………. it is open game for ridicule.
But the people who will put words in someone’s mouth and make assertions about what someone else posted is actually sad at times and I guess funny at other times
SoGaVet
May 22nd, 2012
11:37 am
Anyone taking bets on what hidden agendas like this are behind the Charter School amendment?
Paul
May 22nd, 2012
11:37 am
BOTH
“It seems some on here are intentionally muddying the waters to make appear…”
So why should their tactics today be any different from any other day?
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
May 22nd, 2012
11:37 am
“Florida….& report the performance of its students on standardized tests. Georgia law has no such requirement, and there is no accountability for the education that state tax dollars are providing.”
Well, hell no, what would it look like when Johnny’s ‘progress’ report says, he learned the Earth was 6,000 yrs old, and Jesus rode in on a dinosaur?
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
11:37 am
They BOTH @ 11:33
Can’t argue with that. I’m debating on which path I wanna start my 3yr old. If I’m gonna invest who knows how many thousands of dollars in a private school education and she’s just as well of in the public school, why would I want to use that money in that manner? Seems like a waste. I’m a firm believer in you get what you give. If you leave your child at school and treat it as daycare, then you’re gonna get a daycare education. On the other hand, if you’re actively involved in your child’s education, your child will thrive regardless to whether they are in the public or private system.
larry
May 22nd, 2012
11:37 am
It’s Obama’s fault , if he wasnt such a socialist Muslim , then parents wouldn’t have to send their children to religous, private, tax deducting school in the first place.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:37 am
Becky
BINGO
larry
May 22nd, 2012
11:38 am
snark !!!
Paul
May 22nd, 2012
11:39 am
BOTH
“If I say something that is wrong and my facts are not correct………. it is open game for ridicule.”
I’d hope not. If ridicule is the only response, it just encourages people to shy away from attempting any facts.
’sides which, knowledge and understanding change over time.
For some, anyway….
Grasshopper
May 22nd, 2012
11:39 am
“On the other hand, if you’re actively involved in your child’s education, your child will thrive regardless to whether they are in the public or private system.”
If you believe that, then send your kid to the worst performing school in the city and see how that little experiment works out.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:41 am
Bro
As you stated the public school system as a whole does need work in many areas, so I’m sure that is a tough choice for you. However there are good public schools and to your point parent involvement is a huge factor in the success of the child.
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
11:41 am
I think the reasoning is pretty obvious, (ir)Rational, beginning with the point that $12,000 is a lot less than the $20K tuition at Westminster.
Then you have the fact that Westminster picks and chooses who to educate, and they don’t enroll kids with behavior problems or those who are less intellectually gifted.
Public schools, in contrast, are required by law to educate everyone, including those less gifted, up to including the profoundly retarded. Those less-gifted students take up a lot more time and resources, which reduces the time and resources available for other students to well below what that $12,000 average might suggest.
I know my own kids went through Atlanta public schools, K-12, and got great grades and SAT scores and have flourished at top-of-the-line universities.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
11:42 am
Sifting through Jay’s link, and early on, there’s this little passage for those who champion “choice”…
A cottage industry of these groups has sprung up, in some cases collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars in administrative fees, according to tax filings. The groups often work in concert with private schools like Gwinnett Christian Academy to solicit donations and determine who will get the scholarships — in effect limiting school choice for the students themselves. In most states, students who withdraw from the schools cannot take the scholarship money with them.
So, I donate to a group to get the tax credit. In return, I get the scholarship. After I get that scholarship, I could be limited to the choice of schools AND if my child withdraws, I can’t transfer or take the scholarship funds with me. Sounds like Bernie Madoff had something to do with this stuff….
ragnar danneskjold
May 22nd, 2012
11:42 am
Let me get this straight – taxpayers actually spend money for the racket that purports to be the Georgia education system?
godless heathen
May 22nd, 2012
11:42 am
Becky: parents can send their children to the moon for all I care if they pay for it and not me.
You forgot to add, “And they pay to educate my kids, too.”
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
11:43 am
G. Heathen — “And you can be assured that not one single Democratic voter is taking advantage of this scam.”
To be sure, this isn’t an issue of GOP v. Dem in my mind. It’s an issue of the Haves wanting the Have-Nots to pay for the Haves’ kids’ private-school education regardless of what party the Haves happen to belong to.
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
11:43 am
I say give every child a scholarship to a private school then we can call them public schools.
This discussion is akin to getting food stamps and driving a nice car. The only difference is that we can see those folks and what they are doing. These cheats are hidden behind their income tax forms so on one knows who they are.
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
11:44 am
Just curious, are the people that consider taking other peoples money in order to subsidies their spawns education considerd to be part of the “moocher” class or the “job creator” class?
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
May 22nd, 2012
11:44 am
again, as mrsstsimons points out, it does absolutely no good attempting
to shame this breed of Georgia con – it simply can’t be done.
Shame, embarrassment, regret, remorse?
she says its like anti-Prego, ‘its not in there…’
Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
May 22nd, 2012
11:45 am
So, if my taxes are $15,000, I can donate $15,000 and get that deducted from my taxes?
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:46 am
Paul
I’m just saying on a blog, you are going to get all sorts of responses. I may not like the response I get, if my facts are incorrect, however the chances are high that someone will “go after” the statement. I’m ok with that. After all it is the a blog.
It is the putting words into my mouth and making assertions and conclusions then attributing them to me that imo goes over the line.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
11:46 am
larry — “It’s Obama’s fault , if he wasnt such a socialist Muslim , then parents wouldn’t have to send their children to religous, private, tax deducting school in the first place.”
Your Kung Fu is strong, stranger.
curious
May 22nd, 2012
11:47 am
At least we have a better understanding of why school taxes are so high.
Any idea of how many $ per year are being diverted from the State through this tax credit program?
Curious Observer
May 22nd, 2012
11:47 am
I taught a lot of college freshmen during my career, and I never found one instance in which a private school graduate was better prepared than a public school graduate—quite the opposite, in fact. I think it’s quite obvious why private schools are not subject to testing requirements.
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
11:47 am
Finn McCool – “So, if my taxes are $15,000, I can donate $15,000 and get that deducted from my taxes?”
MOOCHER ALERT!!!!!!!!
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:48 am
“You forgot to add, ‘And they pay to educate my kids, too.’ ”
Single people and couples without kids or grown kids do the same, so what is your point?
Doggone/GA
May 22nd, 2012
11:48 am
“Single people and couples without kids or grown kids do the same, so what is your point?”
We do indeed!
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
11:49 am
Grasshopper — “If you believe that, then send your kid to the worst performing school in the city and see how that little experiment works out.”
There are a number of studies that demonstrate that increased parental involvement in a child’s education results in better performance on the part of the child. This means that a kid with involved parent/parents will tend to do better, all other things being equal, than a kid in the same school with uninvolved parents. It does not mean that you can *overcome* a crap school with enough parental involvement.
Your comment appears to belie some degree of statistical ignorance on your part, but we can overcome that.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
11:51 am
F. McCool — “So, if my taxes are $15,000, I can donate $15,000 and get that deducted from my taxes?”
Surely there is a limit on deductions, no?
randy
May 22nd, 2012
11:51 am
I have kids at both Westminster and Woodward, and am proud to say that I’ve never heard of this fraud. Because the scam violates other state laws, is there any hope of prosecuting the legislators who enacted this taxpayer theft? Can you at least tell us who drafted the law, and who voted for it?
I hope a way is found to expose the schools exploiting this racket.
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
11:51 am
Curious, the total has been limited by law to $50 million a year, although there have been efforts made to remove that cap. Most recently, the cap has been changed to rise with inflation.
And as to how much you can donate, Finn, the current limit is $2500 per couple for individuals. For businesses, it is 75 percent of your total state tax bill. Efforts to lift those caps have also been made — Gov. Perdue to his credit vetoed one such bill when it reached his desk.
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
May 22nd, 2012
11:52 am
‘… K-12, and got great grades and SAT scores and have flourished….’
hear, hear. The view from this desk indicates public education
served this family well, too…..
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:52 am
Doggone @ 11:48
it was a little strange that only part of the info was put out when godless made his point
It was a valid point but for some reason part of the story was left out
Doggone/GA
May 22nd, 2012
11:54 am
“It was a valid point but for some reason part of the story was left out”
And I can’t even take advantage of this scam…since I don’t have any children
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
11:54 am
I wonder how these parents are going to explain to their kid that their education was paid for by public assistance; the welfare cheats. They need to get off their butts and get two or three jobs if they want specialties for their children.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
11:57 am
If you believe that, then send your kid to the worst performing school in the city and see how that little experiment works out.
She’ll still come out ok. I came out of high school with a 4.0 and graduated cum laude in mathematics. I think I can help my child’s education much more than you realize.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
11:57 am
I guess if you send your kids to scummy thieving schools with no ethics or morality then they will become
republicansmorally challenged thieves with no ethics. Luckily, we chose to send our child to an decent school.Q
If I redirect some of my Georgia tax payments to GOAL, can I designate the student who will benefit from the financial assistance?
A
No. Although a participant in the Georgia GOAL program may designate our school and recommend a possible GOAL recipient (except a dependent of the donor), the financial aid committee at our school will have the discretion of deciding which qualified recipients will be recommended to GOAL for financial assistance. GOAL funds will be awarded to new students from public schools who qualify for need-based aid as determined by the Admissions financial aid process. Students eligible for need-based financial aid at Woodward are those in grades 7-12. Woodward will follow the same process for awarding GOAL funds as they do for need-based financial aid. There will be no application process to receive GOAL specific funds.
Q
What students are eligible under the law to receive financial assistance from the Georgia GOAL Scholarship Program?
A
As the legislation indicates, eligible students include those who are “Georgia residents enrolled in a Georgia secondary or primary public school or eligible to enroll in a qualified kindergarten or pre-kindergarten program.” However, Woodward Academy will follow the established financial aid process, making GOAL aid available to qualifying new students from public schools, entering grades 7-12.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
12:00 pm
They BOTH
It’s really not that hard of a choice for me. Why would I pay crap loads of money for school AND pay for public school too? It’s a waste of money. If the public school does not appear to be effective, I can either do it myself or move somewhere better. To me, private school is nothing but a money pit for the majority of people.
godless heathen
May 22nd, 2012
12:01 pm
You forgot to add, ‘And they pay to educate my kids, too.’ ”
Single people and couples without kids or grown kids do the same, so what is your point?
That was the point that should not be forgotten. People that choose private schools pay for both, the private school they use and the public school they don’t. And I dare say that because of the amount of real property I own, I’ve paid to educate quite a few, although none were my own.
An argument could be made that a portion of the costs for private school should be tax deductible, but only IF the private school were non-religious and were measured against public schools, which isn’t the case now.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:04 pm
And what about the childless singles or couples that have no children and never will and still pay school taxes? This is a huge slap in the face for them. Legalized theft!
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:05 pm
“Skipper, if you took kids with the same demographic background as those at Westminster, put them into public schools and spent a minimum of $20,000 a year educating each one of them — $22,700 for grades 6-12 — like they do at Westminster, I bet public schools could do a pretty damn fine job.”
You would lose that bet sport and you know it.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
12:05 pm
G. Heathen — “That was the point that should not be forgotten. People that choose private schools pay for both, the private school they use and the public school they don’t.”
I’m not sure why that should matter. You pay to subsidize MARTA, but you don’t get a refund voucher to apply against a car payment if you choose not to use mass transit.
You can use publicly-funded facilities (like schools, transit, etc) if you want to, but if you choose not to, I don’t think you should expect anything for it.
td
May 22nd, 2012
12:05 pm
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
11:41 am
“I know my own kids went through Atlanta public schools, K-12, and got great grades and SAT scores and have flourished at top-of-the-line universities.”
Which just helps prove the point I have been attempting to make for years on these blogs about education. The best predictor of success in the educational process for students is not money or school but the parent. I am sure your children would be successful and well educated even if they had attended the worst school on the planet because you and your wife gave a damn and made sure of it.
Money is not the problem in education. Parents are the problem and when we as a society really start chastising and holding parents accountable for their child’s education then we will start seeing tremendous gains in the overall education of all children.
Obama is over
May 22nd, 2012
12:06 pm
Regardless of political affiliation, the focus here should be on the quality of education for our children in the State of Georgia. Your blog today is somewhat myopic in that it only shows extreme examples of religious private schools, reflects a certain amount of wealth envy, and offers no solutions to improve the quality of education in the system. I am involved in a non-profit that creates public private partnerships to improve education in the State of Georgia. I am particularly proud of Centennial Place Elementary and East Lake Elementary. Centennial is located next to the old Techwood homes housing project and Ga.Tech. Working with the City and the State, we hand selected faculty, installed a core curriculum, and began having classes year round. The school now performs in the top quartile of elementary schools in the State. Unfortunately, all of this takes money and tax credits are a effective way to motivate individuals to contribute. Public education is designed to benefit the public, not just the parents who have children in public schools. Abuse of the system like the APS testing scandal or the non-profit salaries you highlight today, should not be tolerated. However, anything we can do to improve the education of our children ,including freedom of school choice, should be encouraged. The goal here is to improve education for the children of Georgia, not assign partisan blame, or criticize the wealthy for using a tax credit.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
12:07 pm
Becky — “And what about the childless singles or couples that have no children and never will and still pay school taxes? This is a huge slap in the face for them. Legalized theft!”
I’m in that group and I don’t see it that way. I have no problem supporting public education, and I want it to be as good as possible so that kids can get good jobs and become productive citizens. After all, they’re going to be contributing toward supporting me in my old age, so I don’t object at all to contributing toward giving them a good start in life.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:08 pm
“To me, private school is nothing but a money pit for the majority of people.”
And you are also wrong cowboy. I the FIRST semester of SECOND GRADE my daughter had to do a research project (hers was on polar bears) using power point. SHE did it, not I. They then invited us in to watch the children give their reports. It was awesome dude. After that, I had my daughter teach me how to use power point…….
But I’m sure they did that at your public school as well, I know………
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:09 pm
JHM-I agree with you. I was referring to those taking tax cuts for private schools, the childless folks have no choice.
Michael
May 22nd, 2012
12:10 pm
There was a brief related point on NPR this morning. Something to the effect that Gov Deal set a goal of a significant increase in college graduates in Georgia to meet future demands for an educated work force in Georgia. The report also indicated that Georgia is underfunding education by $1 billion per year. This program operates in direct opposition to these goals and problems.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
12:10 pm
Godless
We will have to agree to disagree. I will not be agreeing that an individual who made a choice should also be provided an additional tax break.
There is more of an argument to say that a person with no kids should not be paying to support schools, however with all the problems with various school systems, I’m not looking to suck more money out of the system
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
12:10 pm
Becky — I see, thanks for the clarification.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
12:12 pm
Paul
I was just making general statement to Bro. It happened to him today and to me yesterday.
While I’m sure it occurs on here daily, it doesn’t happen to me each day.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:12 pm
Fred-that is admirable. But what if public schools had all the funding, smaller class sizes, etc? Public school students could also learn power point in 2nd grade.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:15 pm
Oh and (ir)Rational? Since you don’t care one way or the other about the tax break, might I suggest that you encourage your relatives to send your nephew to a school with HONOR? One that teaches honor and is one of the best around?
http://www.woodward.edu/academics/us/cc/grad-statistics/index.aspx
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
12:15 pm
I bet whoever invented power point went to a public school.
Jm
May 22nd, 2012
12:18 pm
What is stupid is the state is screwing itself, not the local school systems
Dice this is a deduction to state income taxes it would not appear to effect local school funding which is all property tax driven
The Fresh Prince of BIll Ayers
May 22nd, 2012
12:18 pm
Maximum
May 22nd, 2012
10:33 am
Ignorance is bliss for contemporary Republicans. Good luck preparing the next generation for productive adult lives, when being indoctrinated by religious zealots with little regard for reality.
How about if we compare statistics about the average sat score or standardized test scores between public and private schools before making an ignorant statement like this. Also, nobody said life was fair. It sounds like you would rather deny children the right to go to a higher performing school because of “Unfairness”. I doubt many people who put their kids in private school worry about the plight of the poor victim in the inner city, they just focus on how they can get their kids a better education and give them a better chance in life.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:19 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:12 pm
Fred-that is admirable. But what if public schools had all the funding, smaller class sizes, etc? Public school students could also learn power point in 2nd grade.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle. What is your point?
MY point is that public schools DON’T have smaller class sizes. Public schools DON’T separate the idiots from the smart kids. Public schools AREN’T ALLOWED the freedom of thought by the teachers to actually teach the children. Public schools DON’T have the funding, they are too top heavy and subject to too much graft (see Fulton and Dekalb County).
The Republicans have gotten what they want here in Georgia, crappy public schools. I won’t send my child to one.
lex regis
May 22nd, 2012
12:21 pm
This sounds like a conspiracy to defraud the taxpayers, enacted and enabled by the legislature.
Somebody needs prosecuted.
GT
May 22nd, 2012
12:22 pm
These are character issues along with legal.
I got in a discussion yesterday with someone who felt the majority of the state legislature were good people. I think one of our inherit problems in this state is we really don’t know what is right or wrong, from the very top,trickling down to the very bottom. Ignorance of right and wrong is not a defense in the eyes of the law or in reality. Our Atlanta School System cheats, not the students but the teachers. Our private “religious” schools cheat, even worse, now the kids think God is in on hatred and dishonesty and God lacks character. When you mix religion into your little skims of hate and deceit you deface all that is holy and pass it on to the next generation. The very educational system that could save us from ourselves is being used to drive us further into the coma of ignorance and sin.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:24 pm
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
12:15 pm
I bet whoever invented power point went to a public school.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Robert Gaskins PJ. And how much would you care to wager on your asinine assumption?
godless heathen
May 22nd, 2012
12:24 pm
JHMYou can use publicly-funded facilities (like schools, transit, etc) if you want to, but if you choose not to, I don’t think you should expect anything for it.
That’s because you are a commie.
Jm
May 22nd, 2012
12:24 pm
Jay 11:25
Scout’s link from yesterday suggests otherwise…..
I don’t agree frankly
Parents play too much of a role to take a kid, spend a fortune, have him go home at night, play video games and eat junk food, and turn out smart
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:25 pm
Fred-my point was you made the choice to send junior to a private school, good for you. Now pay for it. And don’t think for a minute we know you weren’t bragging just a bit about the ability to do so.
There are plenty of parents who would love to send their children to private school that lack the means to do so. It is the tax payers that must say enough with the graft and corruption that is evident and raise the levels of public school. Parents who turn a blind eye or run away are not helping.
St Simons - island ambassador to New Somalia
May 22nd, 2012
12:26 pm
As soon as these Ga republicans dismantle public education, & divert all this money to unaccountable bible school edumacation, those 21st century high tech smart cos & their jerbs are just gonna flock here, whee doggy
Grasshopper
May 22nd, 2012
12:26 pm
“She’ll still come out ok. I came out of high school with a 4.0 and graduated cum laude in mathematics. I think I can help my child’s education much more than you realize.”
Well go for it then. Let us know how it works out in 9 years.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 22nd, 2012
12:27 pm
Fred ™ May 22nd, 2012 12:19 pm
Exactly…except you forgot Cobb in your parenthetical. As soon as we were told last fall to expect upwards of 40 freshmen in the classes at our “great” East Cobb high school I started submitting the applications. I am pretty much paying for smaller class sizes, which I believe will provide a better educational opportunity for my son. Are there great teachers at my local school – I am sure there are – but how can you teach 40 teenagers algebra in 40 minutes without a bunch of them falling through the cracks while you are trying to simply control the classroom?
@The Fresh Prince of BIll Ayers – you are kinda correct. Right now my main focus is on securing the best education for my son that I can. Do I feel bad for those who can’t? Sure….but my son is my priority.
larry
May 22nd, 2012
12:27 pm
What about people who live in communities that have no private schools but yet pay their taxes just the same just to pay for a tax break for people who send their children to a private school?
It’s just not fair for those folks who mostly live in rural towns and counties to be paying for something like this. Its just corrupt legislation introduced by corrupt politicians, probably with a R next to their name.
Houston, we've got a problem
May 22nd, 2012
12:28 pm
The problem with this bill is pretty obvious. Though, I have no problem allowing parents using the property tax they pay to use for their children’s education, but I know what arguments I’m going to get, not everyone pays property tax, not everyone lives in an expensive home, not everyone has children, but I still think that parents should be allowed to use that money to educate their children as they see fit, not some gov’t official thinks they should be educated.
the problem with our education system isn’t a right wing or left wing issue and solving it won’t be resolved by using soley left or right wing ideas….
Misty Fyed
May 22nd, 2012
12:29 pm
To all you whiners with no kids…..somehow I think most of you had your education paid for by tax payers including those with no kids. But now that you have yours, you believe you shouldn’t have to help pay for someone else.
SMH
RB from Gwinnett
May 22nd, 2012
12:29 pm
I’d be willing to bet money these schools are separate legal entities from the church they operate out of and therefore don’t violate the laws of money going to churches.
Jay seems to have left off data for inner city kids and their families doing the same thing in his attempt to make this look like a rich white suburban issue. Do you have that data too jay or does it not fit your agenda?
Funny how the AJC can find this information but can’t figure out how the owner of the two highest grossing Churches franchises qualifies as a “disadvantaged” applicant for space in the new terminal. Maybe we should hold ALL of our government entities to the same standard and we would ALL be better off.
Fix the loophole and move on with a plan put in place for the right reasons.
larry
May 22nd, 2012
12:30 pm
whee doggy
That is probably all that’s going to be attracted to this state by the time the Repubs get through with it.
Maybe whee doggy will be become Georgia’s next great industry.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
12:32 pm
Fred and Angry Red Mars
You both have made some great points and of course made choices that you think will benefit your children the most in terms of their education. Not a thing wrong with that and I sincerely hope that your kids do reap that benefit.
With that said, pay for it in any way you can. Not sure if either of you utilize the program that JB speaks about in this article, however I’m single and pay my share to support schools. I’m surely not looking for anyone to get tax breaks, subsidies, etc for school
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:32 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:25 pm
Fred-my point was you made the choice to send junior to a private school, good for you. Now pay for it. And don’t think for a minute we know you weren’t bragging just a bit about the ability to do so.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I DO pay for it Becky, just as I pay my property taxes (and have for 30 years) to educate the children of others. As to bragging? You can stick your wealth envy up your ass right where it belongs. I tiold my wife 20 years ago to start saving because when we had kids they were going to Woodward Academy. She did and they do.
Woodward has scholarships for kids who can’t pay for it, just like I linked but you are so envious that you didn’t read a thing I have written, you looked at MY words and substituted YOUR twisted beliefs. At Woodward, they don’t allow you to “contribute” and pick your child for the “scholarship.’
I’ll hold my breath while I await your apology for your stupid assumptions……… (yeah right).
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:33 pm
I would like an investigation into how two church schools in Gwinnett County grew from a few buildings and a few hundred students to suddenly resembling college campuses? Greater Atlanta Christian School and Killian Hill Christian School. Who is paying for these huge expansions?
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
12:34 pm
“Fix the loophole and move on with a plan put in place for the right reasons.”
Loop hole wasn’t a mistake. The legislators under the Gold Dome put it there for a reason.
I agree with your point, but what are the chances that these legislators are going to close the loop hole that they put in?
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:37 pm
Fred-I just hope your offspring learns some manners at Woodward unlike her father that must have missed out on his learning. Wealth envy? Don’t think so. You have nothing to be envious of bud.
You have turned a nice discussion the mature ones here were having into a name calling thread. You must be proud of yourself.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
12:38 pm
M. Fyed — “To all you whiners with no kids…..somehow I think most of you had your education paid for by tax payers including those with no kids. But now that you have yours, you believe you shouldn’t have to help pay for someone else.”
Um, who here falls into that category?
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 22nd, 2012
12:38 pm
Seems to me that the two key factors in any students success…(per Jay’s earlier comment on Westminster student) are parental involvement and union involvement. Don’t expect success without the former regardless of education venue; don’t expect state of the art quality where the latter is involved…
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 22nd, 2012
12:38 pm
They BOTH suck May 22nd, 2012 12:32 pm
I do not use the program that Jay is writing about. I also did not apply for financial aid at my son’s school – even if I thought I could qualify, I had already saved the money for him to attend and felt that any aid should go to students who would not otherwise be able to afford the tuition. I am fortunate to be able to send my son to a good private school with small classes – thanks to a public school education (K-12 all the way through law school) for which I owe a debt of gratitude to the taxpayers of a couple of states in the North. I pay my $3k in property taxes each year to fund the Cobb County schools and I don’t even complain about it.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:39 pm
AngryRedMarsWoman: I know what you mean. My daughter is only 10 now, but were she to go to a public High School, right now that would be Lakeside, which is ranked #9 in the State by US News. Where you live, there are at least 3 top rated schools, Walton (#3), Lassiter (#7), and Wheeler (#13).
Yet as good as they are, they can’t compete over-all with the Woodwards and the Westminsters.
I do not begrudge on penny of my property taxes, but I’m going to keep doing everything I can to keep my child in Woodward. If need be, I’ll even get a job……..
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
12:41 pm
As the WSJ reported, Robert Gaskins and his co-inventor aren’t real happy with PowerPoint being used by schoolchildren:
“Now grade-school children turn in book reports via PowerPoint. The men call that an abomination. Children, they emphatically agree, need to think and write in complete paragraphs.”
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
12:41 pm
Finn McCool (The System Isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
May 22nd, 2012
10:49 am
I can easily see Conservatives rationalizing this.
________________________________________________________________________
And so far, no “cons” are rationalizing it.
Maybe if you took your partisaned blinders off you could actually “see” that.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:43 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:37 pm
Fred-I just hope your offspring learns some manners at Woodward unlike her father that must have missed out on his learning. Wealth envy? Don’t think so. You have nothing to be envious of bud.
You have turned a nice discussion the mature ones here were having into a name calling thread. You must be proud of yourself.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You aren’t very lucid are you? Point out where I have called you a name “bud.” I merely pointed out your lack of ability to comprehend the written word.
As to my daughter? I’m proud of my intolerance of stupidity, lies and liars and inability to suffer fools. I gladly teach that to her. Pointing out YOUR hypocrisy isn’t “name calling” lol, but you twist things around in your tiny little mind as best you can bless your heart. I understand.
Hootinanny Yum Yum
May 22nd, 2012
12:44 pm
Typical right-wing class warfare…
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
12:45 pm
Fred @12:24 pm
Ok, so I’m asinine but your 2nd grader had to teach you power point.
“Are you marter than a fifth grader…”
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:45 pm
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
12:41 pm
As the WSJ reported, Robert Gaskins and his co-inventor aren’t real happy with PowerPoint being used by schoolchildren:
“Now grade-school children turn in book reports via PowerPoint. The men call that an abomination. Children, they emphatically agree, need to think and write in complete paragraphs.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And what pray tell Jay do you think they use for words in power point reports? Stick figures? Nice try at being a Luddite.
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
12:46 pm
Sorry, “smarter”
RB from Gwinnett
May 22nd, 2012
12:46 pm
BOTH, I can’t say if it was intentional or just another example of smart people using loopholes to their advantage as smart people are inclined to do.
Keep in mind, though, if you close that loophole for Westminster kids, you also close it for the inner city mom who runs a cleaning business and is doing the same thing to get her kids out of APS.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:47 pm
Fred-charming.
You can stick your wealth envy up your ass right where it belongs.
Oops!
As the WSJ reported, Robert Gaskins and his co-inventor aren’t real happy with PowerPoint being used by schoolchildren:
“Now grade-school children turn in book reports via PowerPoint. The men call that an abomination. Children, they emphatically agree, need to think and write in complete paragraphs.”
Houston, we've got a problem
May 22nd, 2012
12:47 pm
Jay, I agree with the inventors of Power point, in fact in my little ole community school, they don’t even teach children how to write in cursive anymore. It has become a waste of time for them….I think it is rather imperative that children are able to express their thoughts properly in writing. I think you should include speaking as well…
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 22nd, 2012
12:47 pm
FRED,
Why are you always on a judgmental attack mode? When you start the name calling you are conceding the debate…at least my college professor said so…
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
May 22nd, 2012
12:48 pm
do they serve de-caf at Woodward, mon?
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:49 pm
I can picture ole Fred sitting out back behind the double wide with the boys bragging about his little angel learning power point at the big expensive school she goes to. What a big man.
skipper
May 22nd, 2012
12:51 pm
@Jay, (reference to power point)
This child probably IS ABLE TO THINK AND WRITE IN COMPLETE PARAGRAPHS….(as opposed to a large #,like it or not, of the APS ninth-tenth graders being politically correctly shuffled through!)
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:53 pm
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
12:45 pm
Fred @12:24 pm
Ok, so I’m asinine but your 2nd grader had to teach you power point.
“Are you marter than a fifth grader…”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yeah, never had to use powerpoint before. I’ve never used GIMP or Photoshop either. Isn’t it great that I’m open minded enough and don’t suffer from ego problems that I am willing to learn from anyone?
Hey guess what PJ? My wife is about to get a MAC Airbook (I think that’s what they are called). My daughter is dying to use it (she WILL be in 5th grade next year). I’ve never worked with the apple OS. My daughter will be able to teach my how to do that as well.
It’s great having an intelligent articulate child with a thirst for knowledge and the ability to pass it on PJ. Apparently if you have children yours are lacking in that department. I’m sorry. But bless their hearts I’m sure they try to move past the monosyllabic words.
And if you don’t have children, look what you have to look forward to. It’s great.
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 22nd, 2012
12:53 pm
Hmmm, I could afford sending my kids to Woodward et al but chose public school because the district is solid and after visiting Woodward, Westminster and Lovett, didn’t feel the atmosphere represented the real world…all the christian schools scare me….
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
12:54 pm
the owner of the two highest grossing Churches franchises qualifies as a “disadvantaged” applicant for space in the new terminal.
Ok, I’ll ask–Who is this person you speak of? And which denominations (franchises?) are involved?
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
12:54 pm
So what’s the problem with parents getting their own tax money back in the form of a tax credit and sending their kids to the school of their choice? Seems to me its about freedom and choice and some people just don’t seem to like that. Education envy card? We’ve got a new card folks.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:54 pm
stevie ray….Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right…here I am…
May 22nd, 2012
12:47 pm
FRED,
Why are you always on a judgmental attack mode? When you start the name calling you are conceding the debate…at least my college professor said so…
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You went to college and STILL have this lack of reading comprehension? Please point out to me an example of name calling.
I’ll wait.
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
12:55 pm
Aside from the last page here, I think this is a topic there is a general consensus on…
I don’t quite know how I feel about that…
Fred, I commend you for your choices, it’s not an easy road to choose and stay on. And it requires a large commitment in quite few different areas to put your child in a private school and keep her there.
Private schools don’t have to deal with “issues” public schools do, and it’s pretty much demanded that you be a part of the equation or you’ll be told things like “we just don’t feel this is the best environment for your child”, (that’s how they kick children out). It’s not all power point presentations, and espresso…
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:56 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:49 pm
I can picture ole Fred sitting out back behind the double wide with the boys bragging about his little angel learning power point at the big expensive school she goes to. What a big man.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And there is Becky, using character assassination because she cannot point out any name calling by me and is just mad as hell because she has been exposed.
Oh and Becky, I’m a FAT man, not big man. Get your insults right bless your heart.
Hypocrisy much?
Jm
May 22nd, 2012
12:56 pm
Paragraphs shouldn’t be solely for children….
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
12:57 pm
stevie ray,
Why do the “Christian” schools scare you? Are there constant knifings, shootings, assaults, etc. going on in these Christians similar to public schools? As for religious indoctrination I know plenty of kids who went to Christian schools. And they are ever bit a secularist or a sinner as me.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:58 pm
I smell a rat. Suddenly Fred’s 2nd grader is now a 5th grader in one year? Really? she skipped 2 years of ole Woodward? Or are you just mis-remembering? Maybe you need remedial math? As for name calling-you are doing just fine. Look back over your post big man.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:59 pm
Thulsa: An opposition to a Christian school isn’t fear any more than an opposition to “the gay lifestyle” makes someone a homophobe.
I wouldn’t send my daughter to 99% of the “Christian” schools around here.
243 more days
May 22nd, 2012
12:59 pm
IMO, this stinks.
I would like to see a listing of who voted for this, and we need to start an e mail campaign to let them know this is not right.
I know they will ignore it if they voted for it, but it is kinda like Senator Reid holding up bills in the US Senate, at least give it a try, don’t be chicken$hit.
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 22nd, 2012
1:00 pm
Thulsa,
I wasn’t brought up in a religious environment so the whole religion thing is something I find difficult to swallow and don’t think religion has done much for anyone excepting creating a calendar and charting the moon…not intending to offend…just my opinion.
A dad
May 22nd, 2012
1:00 pm
After reading the posts on this blog, I am somewhat dumbfounded that so many bloggers complain about the lack of compromise in DC and gov’t. Just about everyone on this blog mirrors what we accuse politicians of doing, i.e., my way or the highway, and your way is stupid.
Man is this country screwed….
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
1:01 pm
Are there constant knifings, shootings, assaults, etc. going on
Bros, if you’re chilly, they’re burnin’ another straw man over here.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:01 pm
“Oh and Becky, I’m a FAT man, not big man. Get your insults right bless your heart.”
Damn if that aint funny. Doomy is rolling over here.
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
1:02 pm
FAT or PHAT???
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 22nd, 2012
1:03 pm
FRED,
“so you went to college and still have issue with reading comprehension” (paraphrase) seems like sophomoric attack by one who has run out of quality commentary. I think I got a pretty good education which you comment on without knowledge…another sign of concession..
Aquagirl
May 22nd, 2012
1:03 pm
So what’s the problem with parents getting their own tax money back in the form of a tax credit and sending their kids to the school of their choice?
Because it’s not THEIR tax money. It’s OUR tax money. I’m not sure why you think people using the services should be the only ones not paying.
Are you going liberal-marxist-communist on us, Doomy?
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
1:03 pm
Finn McCool (The System Isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
May 22nd, 2012
11:24 am
keeping their kids away from the riff raff.
This is what you are paying for in the first place. “Level of education” is the excuse used to justify it. Sounds better than “I don’t want my kid growing up around those people.”
__________________________________________________________________________
Does that apply when the parents are also “those people”?
HDB
May 22nd, 2012
1:03 pm
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:24 pm
You MAY be wrong on that bet…..Gaskins started at Cal-Berkeley in 1968 (public college)…..chances he started in the California public system…..
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
1:03 pm
Doom — “So what’s the problem with parents getting their own tax money back in the form of a tax credit and sending their kids to the school of their choice? Seems to me its about freedom and choice and some people just don’t seem to like that.”
I think that most posters here are fine with parents choosing to send their kids to whatever kind of school they want. The sticking point in the discussion seems to be when there’s a taxpayer subsidy for anything other than public school educations.
skipper
May 22nd, 2012
1:03 pm
Jay, dad-gum your time…..I’m not a liberal, and you are: so why do i like you anyway??????????
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:04 pm
stands for decibels,
Are you suggesting that those public schools are not scarier in terms of physical safety than say those “Christian” schools? And its not a straw argument. Stevie said those Christian schools are scary to him so I’m simply asking what is so scary about them. I doubt you’ll find too many folks who would say that public schools are safer than private Christian schools in terms of physical safety.
Now if Stevie is just engaging in a bit of Christian bashing or private school bashing instead of talking about physical safety then that’s a different story.
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 22nd, 2012
1:05 pm
A DAD,
Right on….it is fun to pick fights with the far left and far right who IMO are the problem as a result of playing into the status quo and supporting all causes of the Clowns and Jokers…I like your style.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 22nd, 2012
1:07 pm
“So what’s the problem with parents getting their own tax money back in the form of a tax credit and sending their kids to the school of their choice?”
And if there was a law that allowed us to do that I would be taking the deduction for the ungodly amount of money I spend for private school tuition. But the legislature did not see fit to do that. Instead we have a program that on its face is supposed to help “needy” kids in bad school districts escape their public schools to private school, but that in practice involves parents of private school students donating money to the “needy children fund” while “enrolling” their own children in the local public school to turn around and “pull the child out” of the public school to attend the private school and be “awarded” a scholarship in the exact amount that the parents donated to the “needy children fund”. Are you with me so far? And we are apparently talking about a tax credit here, not a tax deduction…so the parent who “donates” $2.5k to the “needy children fund” gets that amount off of his taxes and then turns around and gets the donation back to pay for school…free money, anyone? Heck, I would love to get a tax deduction for private school tuition….but there isn’t one, and the backwards way that people are taking one is immoral IMHO….but, hey, people justify much worse behavior all the time, don’t they?
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:07 pm
“The sticking point in the discussion seems to be when there’s a taxpayer subsidy for anything other than public school educations.”
Joe Mama,
Yeah. I get that. I just don’t understand why people would care about the tax subsidy- particularly when the parents themselves are taxpayers. If they are taxpayers why then should they not have the freedom of choice to decide with their rightful tax money where their kids go to school?
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 22nd, 2012
1:08 pm
Thulsa,
Stating my take on religion is not bashing as it works for many just not for me…I do find religion, not unlike unions are fightning for relevancy as reflected by the sharp downward slope of membership over the past 50 or so years. Private schools work for many as well just for my kids, we chose public of which we are both products.
Violence is as violence does…
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:11 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:58 pm
I smell a rat. Suddenly Fred’s 2nd grader is now a 5th grader in one year? Really? she skipped 2 years of ole Woodward? Or are you just mis-remembering? Maybe you need remedial math? As for name calling-you are doing just fine. Look back over your post big man.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There goes Becky with her lack of reading comprehension skills. Are you familiar with a concept called GRAMMAR Becky? It’s the set of structural rules that govern the composition of clauses, phrases, and words in any given natural language.
So in MY post I said, . I(n) the FIRST semester of SECOND GRADE my daughter had to do a research project ……….
Do you see the highlighted word there Becky? HAD? Now grammatically speaking, HAD is what they call the PAST TENSE: a grammatical tense that places an action or situation in the past of the current moment. Did you notice the word PAST there Becky? Let me define past for you since you are really having problems today: of, having existed in, or having occurred during a time previous to the present; bygone.
Are you still with me Becky. Bless your heart, I can explain it TO you but I can’t understand it FOR you. I am however trying to type slow so you can keep up.
So I said she HAD meaning ago, in the past, like when she was in Second grade. Just like you once were in second grade. Your behavior aside that doesn’t mean you are STILL in second grade, just that you ONCE were. Still with me? See she WAS in the second grade. NOW she is in the fourth grade. Next week when her mommy gets her new computer, the school year will be over and she will be considered to be in the FIFTH grade. Understand?
Good.
“As for name calling-you are doing just fine. Look back over your post big man.”
Ah I understand. That’s code for you lied and it’s not there.
Dear Becky, you haven’t done anything but continue to make your self look more foolish with each post. Why don’t you stop already bless your heart. I’m embarrassed for you……….
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
1:12 pm
Are you suggesting that those public schools are not scarier in terms of physical safety than say those “Christian” schools?
I’m suggesting you’re tossing out generalities in hopes someone will take your stinky bait.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:13 pm
stevie ray….Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right…here I am…
May 22nd, 2012
1:03 pm
FRED,
“so you went to college and still have issue with reading comprehension” (paraphrase) seems like sophomoric attack by one who has run out of quality commentary. I think I got a pretty good education which you comment on without knowledge…another sign of concession..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
In other words, you, like Becky, bless your hearts, CAN’T find me calling her names anywhere but lack the intellectual integrity to admit it. I understand. Very few have my moral fiber.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
1:13 pm
Doom — “Yeah. I get that. I just don’t understand why people would care about the tax subsidy- particularly when the parents themselves are taxpayers.”
Well, as I said, that’s kinda the sticking point here.
“If they are taxpayers why then should they not have the freedom of choice to decide with their rightful tax money where their kids go to school?”
Take out the word “tax” from that and I agree with you. If Mom and Dad want to send Junior to private school, I’m out of their way. I’m a strong supporter or and believer in education at all levels.
But by allowing these dollar-for-dollar tax deductions for donating to these “Student Scholarship Organizations,” the system is working as a stealth subsidy for something that — by Georgia law — tax money *can’t legally* be spent on. That was the point of Jay’s piece.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:13 pm
“Because it’s not THEIR tax money. It’s OUR tax money.”- Aquagirl
Well actually its both. But why do you care where someone sends their kids regardless of the tax pot? I don’t have kids but I pay taxes into the system. If a Muslim family wants to take their tax credit that is part of what I pay into as well as what they pay into it and send their kids to a fine Muslim madrassah then what do I care? I don’t. Give people their freedom of choice.
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
1:14 pm
Skipper, it must be my green eyes. That’s what my wife tells me, anyway….
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
1:14 pm
Uh Fred-you are the one looking foolish not I. Anyway-I’m done with you and your bloviating. Please scroll past my posts as I want to rejoin the grown up discussion and not trade barbs with you.
Houston, we've got a problem
May 22nd, 2012
1:15 pm
aqua girl, so you are saying that once funds collected from individuals are in gov’t hands, it doesn’t belong to them, here lies the fundemental problem I have with big gov’t, liberalism, or whatever you want to call it, I don’t believe that any money earned belongs to a collective, that it belongs to an individual, that individual should have a right (w/o it harming others) to do with his wealth as he sees fit. that is why I have issues with progressive tax system, yes you can earn as much as you want, but the gov’t is going to tell you how much you can keep….it seems to me you have no issue with individuals who choose to do nothing to have a slice of they pie they didn’t bake….
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:16 pm
HDB; I never said he didn’t go to public school lol. But since when I researched it I couldn’t find anything earlier than his college, I doubt PJ can (or will even research it lol since he didn’t bother to find the name before he tossed his ill aimed dart).
I was actually hoping that PJ might actually make the effort though and find it since I didn’t feel like researching it further but wanted to know.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:19 pm
Oh and Becky dear? I’m already on record here, on multiple threads, (multiple blogs actually if you count Maureens, Theresa’s Kyles, ect) for being OPPOSED to tax breaks for people on their private school bills. I’m also opposed to vouchers (another way folks try to scam off their private schools bills on the taxpayers).
Basically you have been attacking someone who agrees with your initial posts bless your heart.
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
1:20 pm
Houston – “I don’t believe that any money earned belongs to a collective”
Great, than I expect you to travel on dirt roads, home school your children, not seek assistance when your home is destroyed in a Tornado, Fire or Flood. And, I have to assume, that you will simply waive the police on by when getting your ass stomped by a couple of punks downtown.Do you have a special I.D. card that you use so that we will know that you’re not part of the “collective”?
RB from Gwinnett
May 22nd, 2012
1:20 pm
Becky, why don’t you just copy and paste Fred’s name calling post and prove him wrong? Should be a pretty simple thing to do.
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
1:21 pm
My children are just fine, thanks for asking. All are grown and on their own and doing very well in life. My son is in the USAF serving overseas, my eldest, a daughter is a nurse and my youngest, also a daughter, is a full time college student and also works full time. But don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t speaking on your child intelligence but yours. It’s nice to know that she will be able to help you learn to read street signs and to eat soup while out dribbling. A mind is a terrible thing to waste Fred. Don’t be a fool, go to school. By the way where did Gaskins go to school? I looked and can find no info on his primary education. Must not be too impressive if there is no mention of it.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:22 pm
Joe Mama,
I think that what the article is saying is that in Georgia its actually legal since it doesn’t specify an income limit. And money in fact is set aside for poor kids scholarships- albeit a small amount. Now they certainly aren’t following the spirit of the law. On that I would certainly agree.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:22 pm
RB: You would think so wouldn’t you lol?
Houston, we've got a problem
May 22nd, 2012
1:23 pm
maybe I should clarify my comments some, thanks Butch, in terms of doing something that is truly for the public good, ie fire protection, education, police protection, roads, yes that stuff is a “collective” but taking income from one person and just giving it to another just to make things “fair”, I’m completely against….
besides, I have really good insurance if my house gets hit by a tornado…..I pay for that out of my own pocket, I shouldn’t need public redistribution to help me rebuild…..
saywhat?
May 22nd, 2012
1:24 pm
Fred, BFD about your child using powerpoint in second grade. All five of my kids did too, and yes they were in public schools. In fact, my youngest when he was in the second grade liked power point so much that he made a presentation on turtles just for fun in his spare time. My oldest child attended k-12 public schools and is now excelling at the university level, entering her junior year. I expect the of my children will do the same, all without private school.
If I felt the burning need to place my kids into private school certainly wouldn’t have the gall to mooch off my fellow taxpayers to pay for my lifestyle choices.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:24 pm
Sweet, I have three gnats buzzing around.
So PJ, learning is a sign of a lack of intelligence? Pray tell how you came to that conclusion? It seems a tad bit “unconventional” as it were………..
The Fresh Prince of BIll Ayers
May 22nd, 2012
1:25 pm
Apparently this whole flap was intended to be a work-around to allow parents a way to get their kids out of a poor performing school district. The real issue is getting talented teachers in said districts, and somehow getting parents more involved. If you take the involved parent’s families out, the less involved and more average students are left leaving an “average environment”.
robo
May 22nd, 2012
1:25 pm
I think schools would perform better with a consumer-based system based on merit rewards rather than tenure whereby administrators and teachers can grow fat and lazy. It is competition that would drive the schools to become better. The system in place is antiquated with long summer vacations and unions. In the real world, no one gets the entire summer off. In the real world, collective bargaining fails in business. It’s time to make the system work more like a business.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
1:25 pm
But I’m sure they did that at your public school as well, I know………
When I was in public school, power point did not exist…
My daughter is 3 and has not yet enrolled in public school, therefore I don’t have any personal ancedotes to contribute at this point.
captguitarman
May 22nd, 2012
1:26 pm
Another excellent effort comparable to your recent column about Speaker Ralston’s lame attempt to characterize legislative ethics reform as a partisan issue driven by the Dem/Libs and media elitists etc. But, as it turns out, a “few” Pub/Cons think we need legislative ethics reform too. It is only conjecture, but one can only imagine the number of fancy meals, hotel stays, golf trips, expensive ickets, vacations, etc. that may have been proferred and accepted by legislators (all above selling their influence, of course) who helped to create this complete boondoggle of a law that essentially provides dollar for dollar state tax credits for private school tuition payments. And the criminalization of any activities to create transparency and distribute information regarding the law and the sources and the use of these funds is just soooo totally Gold Dome in its approach, wouldn’t you agree?
While I am empathetic to those frustrated with the public schools, how they are run and administered, and the incompetence, waste, and rampant lack of professional ethics, and the emphasis on the administrators careers and not the needs of the students and teachers — the dishonest and disingenuous way this law was sold, passed, and then put into effect is reprehensible. But, Georgians must admit that the collection of taxes fees, or funds for one stated purpose, and then their use for some other purpose, is not exactly a rare thing under the Gold Dome. And, it is clear when asked about it that our legislators feel “entitled” (they are entitled to a lot of things if you ask them about it) to redirect any and all funds without consulting the voters.
And finally, comparing how Georgia does things vs. other neighboring states like Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina, and North Carolina, or even other southern states like Texas or Virginia, is like comparing the work of the kids in the remedial class to that of the National Honor Society. Until, ethics reform comes, and this “jes good ol’ boys doin’ bidness” culture is eradicated from the Georgia legislature . . . . Well, as is often stated on these pages, and regarding this latest instance of things like this . . . . Georgians most certainly have the state government that they deserve.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
1:27 pm
RB-already pointed out the name calling posts. Apparently Fred is reading challenged as well as a liar, bless his thieving heart.
Peter
May 22nd, 2012
1:28 pm
The religious Republican’s are at it again… saying put all the Queers in a barbed wire enclosure, and drop in food.
Imagine how dumb that sounds, never mind how Anti-Christian a statement that is.
Religious Republican’s are evil.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:28 pm
saywhat?
May 22nd, 2012
1:24 pm
Fred, BFD about your child using powerpoint in second grade. All five of my kids did too, and yes they were in public schools.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Pray tell, what school? I use that as one of MANY examples of what public schools can’t offer, but apparently YPUR public school had computers for all their students. Since no schools around HERE do that I’m curious where they went to school.
If I felt the burning need to place my kids into private school certainly wouldn’t have the gall to mooch off my fellow taxpayers to pay for my lifestyle choices.
I’m glad you feel that way, I do to. What is your point?
Mick
May 22nd, 2012
1:29 pm
Public schools are always getting bashed, I submit that most of the problems with education begins at home; if you have parents that care and monitor progress, most public schools can deliver an effective product. When the parents don’t care? All bets are off…
Generation$crewed
May 22nd, 2012
1:29 pm
This does not seem right. Seems like the fix is in.
But I can’t hate them for it.
I went to public school all 13 yrs then 2 more yrs of state sponsored “public” college.
However my children will attend private schools. The public school system is a joke now. With too many concerns to list. I was a hs teacher for 4yrs before changing career paths. With that insider knowledge the choice is even easier!
But under the current system I understand it is my responsibility to pay for their education and the other children in my area. Until we reform education that is the law of the land.
Shouldn’t be going around trying to find ways to bs the system, and taking tax money. Seems it would cost about the same to just pay the tuition and not bother with laundering the money thru the state tax system.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
1:29 pm
Angry @ 1:07
Good post
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
1:30 pm
This is OT, but Nate Silver had a very good column yesterday on the topic of “swing” voters and “swing” states, wherein he presented a nicely detailed discussion with examples. It’s a bit of a slog to get through the whole thing, but if you’re a numbers person, you might find it worthwhile.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/21/swing-voters-and-elastic-states/#more-30905
Mr. Silver discusses a lot of HOW and WHY, and IMO demonstrates why he’s the go-to guy for understanding and analysis of political polling.
BTW, did you know that after a false start as an economic consultant, he quit his job and became a baseball statistician? It’s true!
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:31 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
1:27 pm
RB-already pointed out the name calling posts. Apparently Fred is reading challenged as well as a liar, bless his thieving heart.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wow. A bold faced lie. You have pointed out nothing, yet here you are attacking ME and calling ME names. Sweet. I’ve really got you so beat down you can’t think straight. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to break your spirit, I just wanted you to admit your fallacy……..
RB from Gwinnett
May 22nd, 2012
1:32 pm
Just copy and paste for us Becky. Very simple end to the question. Surely you can do that, right?
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:32 pm
“When I was in public school, power point did not exist…”- Brocephus
You’re an old fart.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
1:34 pm
Bro
I’m with you……….. It was the overhead projector.
TD…… Don’t lie. That is you as well.
hahahaha
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
1:36 pm
Fred @1:24 pm
Fred, Fred, Fred, your brain is dead. That post was so unintelligible that your lack of learning really shows through. Get some rest buddy, you must need it.
GNATS UNITE!
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
1:36 pm
Well, we’ve donated hundreds or thousands, I lose track, to local charities this year so far and we do so with no expectations of receiving any monetary benefit in return. We never write off any of our giving because that just plain violates the very spirit of charitable giving. I think we are long overdue for getting rid of all tax breaks for charitable giving. Also, a true Christian would not need a tax break to do the proper thing.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
1:36 pm
Fred-why don’t you man up and get a job and get off all the self admitted blogs you post to all day long? Do you make your wife work to pay your offspring’s tuition or do you contribute at all?
Does your child enjoy her 2 hour school bus ride twice a day to school from Tucker or do you get out of bed and drive her? Do you have a license or did you lose it?
See-I have many friends whose children attend Woodward. Not too hard to figure out who you are-the one they all giggle about at PTA meetings. Bless your heart.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:36 pm
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:32 pm
“When I was in public school, power point did not exist…”- Brocephus
You’re an old fart.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Powerpoint was invented in 1987. LOL I was out of college and in the Army by then, Brocephus is still a pup (And I’ve learned more about power point and it’s creators than I wanted to today).
I thought you were “middle aged” Doomy. (in your 40’s at least).
Aquagirl
May 22nd, 2012
1:36 pm
aqua girl, so you are saying that once funds collected from individuals are in gov’t hands, it doesn’t belong to them, here lies the fundemental problem I have with big gov’t, liberalism, or whatever you want to call it
Yes, that’s pretty much the definition of taxes. You get your say via elected representatives. That’s called taxation with representation. Nobody agrees 100% on how their taxes are spent.
Tea Potty whiners don’t like it when they don’t get to overrule everyone else around them. That’s called throwing a tantrum and frankly those folks can take a flying fornication at a rolling doughnut.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
1:38 pm
Doom — “You’re an old fart.”
I must be an older one, then, because it didn’t come out for several years after I finished my first BA and had entered the Army. And I don’t recall seeing any PP presentations in the Army, despite PP having been released before I got out.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:38 pm
Mick,
There are still a lot of good public schools out there. In my 12 years I can think of 1 bad teacher- and that was because he was 65 that year and retiring and I think he just mailed it in and didn’t give a shyte. Otherwise all my public school teachers were for the most part excellent. And today there are still some good ones. My 2 nieces go to a public elementary that is pretty good. But starting in the 7th grade they are going to private school. That issue has already been decided far in advance. And their mother is a public school teacher. That should tell you something.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:40 pm
Joe Mama,
That would just make you a more stale old fart.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:40 pm
So since Becky has been proven a liar she now has to resort to personal attacks and implied gossip lol. Sweet.
Gee Becky, it takes YOU two hours to drive to College Park from Woodward? Do you go via Rome or something? As to my financials and work habits, why don’t you enlighten me Becky? What did I do today in between my posts here?
How is bartending?
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
1:42 pm
Doom — “That would just make you a more stale old fart.”
Ah prefers ta be called “crusty,” iffen y’don’t mind.
Thomas
May 22nd, 2012
1:44 pm
Proving, once again that, anything that whatever the gov’t touches, funds, is associated with will be corrupt. I, as most folks, undertands we all have basic needs. Aside from basic needs I completely fail to understand anyone who doesn’t want to limit government. The TSPLOT sounds great, wonderful, all in, let’s do it, but this is same damn gov’t that extends the 400 toll in the dark of night, that spends what $1 billion more than budget on the international concourse, that sponsors and runs the above scholarship program. Every day you Jay you hammer the gov’t and ethics- how in the world does one reconcile that with gov’t increase of anything? Do know this- a third – and once again- highly inefficient stimulus will strongly be pitched in the next two or three weeks. It is a complete lack of leadership for now 11 years in DC that got us here.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:45 pm
“Tea Potty whiners don’t like it when they don’t get to overrule everyone else around them.”
Aquagirl,
No. What they don’t like is the tax money being frivolously wasted and the govt irresponsibly spending trillions more than what they are taking in. For example when the govt owns 14,000 buildings that it isn’t using and they are just sitting vacant but the govt is still paying for upkeep, rent, etc. is that a wise expenditure of all of our taxpayer money?
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:46 pm
Yo Doomy, you’ll like this:
http://www.ajc.com/news/former-cnn-exec-cited-1443424.html
BlahBlahBlah
May 22nd, 2012
1:48 pm
“three people running a private scholarship fund in Cumming are being paid $175,600 each to administer the money flowing through that supposedly charitable organization. Those salaries are in effect being paid with taxpayers’ money that is flowing through those organizations with little or no state oversight, and administrators at other poorly regulated SSOs are also collecting six-figure incomes.”
Who do they think they are, public school administrators? Usually you have to work in Dekalb, Fulton, APS etc. to pull down sweet coin like that!
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:48 pm
For example when the govt owns 14,000 buildings that it isn’t using and they are just sitting vacant but the govt is still paying for upkeep, rent, etc. is that a wise expenditure of all of our taxpayer money?
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Why DOESN’T the VA get rid of those? Oh wait, I just saw 14,000. Are they ALL VA? I know the VA has a butt load though.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:50 pm
Joe mama,
Crusty old fart of a geezer it shall be written.
Joseph
May 22nd, 2012
1:50 pm
Written by someone who has no clue what a failing school system looks like. Its sad Jay that you and your ilk write about something as fact when its simply not true.
godless heathen
May 22nd, 2012
1:50 pm
Power Point? We hardly had chalk boards when I was in school. Had 2 large classes per teacher in the same classroom. The teacher would address half the room at a time, while the other half worked on their assignments. The teachers had no “aides” and the Principal taught a full schedule. Wonder we learned anything.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:51 pm
“Two new reports say obesity rate could top 40 percent by 2030″
That’s it. Step away from the computers folks and get off your lazy fat asses and go run around the block 6,000 times. Fred you said you are a fat man so you get to run 10,000 laps. Doomy has gotten fat also so I’m putting myself down for 8,000 laps.
Mick
May 22nd, 2012
1:54 pm
doom
I went to both catholic and public school, had some really great nuns and some bad ones; went to public school and had some really great teachers and some mediocre ones. Still, it was up to me to access my education and for the most part I did. Enjoyed college way more than high school..
saywhat?
May 22nd, 2012
1:55 pm
fred- rockdale county schools
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:56 pm
godless heathen,
We usually had 27-30 students per classload. Students still learned just fine though. No teachers aides either which frankly just sounds like a waste of money to me. I mean what do they do? Just hand out papers and shuffle paperwork? And we walked 8 miles barefoot through snow in winter and hurricanes in summer, fighting off wolves, cougars,, and bears all the while.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:56 pm
Doomy: LOL I now post only from the treadmill. What I need though is one of those treadmills (or bikes) that power the computer. You have to go so fast in order to power it up.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:57 pm
saywhat: Thanks.
straitroad
May 22nd, 2012
1:58 pm
Jay, I agree with you on this one. Like it or not, we need public schools to be able to educate those who otherwise wouldn’t bother. Businesses need people who can at least read and write. Those who choose to do private school are making a good choice but shouldn’t expect tax dollars to help with tuition.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:58 pm
“And we walked 8 miles barefoot through snow in winter and hurricanes in summer, fighting off wolves, cougars,, and bears all the while.”
Wimp. It was probably downhill……… both ways……..
godless heathen
May 22nd, 2012
1:58 pm
Doom,
Color TV is what ruined the world.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:59 pm
Fred,
No. Probably just a few hundred are VA owned. Its kinda shocking when you start seeing just how much waste their is in govt. We could probably fund many of the social programs that liberals believe in if we could just cut out the waste. I’m about done with my popcorn bag. It lasted throughout your whole lambasting of poor Becky. Still didn’t see her copy and paste of your name calling though.
Aquagirl
May 22nd, 2012
1:59 pm
What they don’t like is the tax money being frivolously wasted and the govt irresponsibly spending trillions more than what they are taking in.
That’s the government elected according to our Constitution. If “they” don’t like it, “they” can speak their mind, vote, or go live in Singapore. I personally don’t care.
George Washington knew what to do with tax dodgers, maybe we should elect somebody like him to deal with our whiners.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
2:01 pm
“Color TV is what ruined the world.”
On that we agree to agree. It sure is an easy excuse for people not to get out and exercise. Weak excuse, but an easy one
Mick
May 22nd, 2012
2:01 pm
doom
I guess I’m bucking the trend; in the best shape of my life, got the abs back and all, been working out very methodically since january. the single most important thing? Diet. Yes, it all comes to to a very simple philosophy – eat to live not live to eat. All the snacking, fast foods, junk foods need to go then..voila…all your old clothes will fit again. Plus, I don’t want to rack up sky high medicare bills because poor old jm needs a break from us greedy seniors…
Rockerbabe
May 22nd, 2012
2:02 pm
Georgia voted for republicans and now most are getting shafted. I sure hope someone with “standing” sues the hell out of the governor and the legislature for violating the Georgia constitution on separation of church and state.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 22nd, 2012
2:03 pm
A buxom babe claimed she was fired from her job at a Manhattan lingerie distributor — for being too hot.
Two days after getting hired in April, a supervisor at the business in the Garment District told Lauren Odes the Orthodox Jewish owners were not happy with her attire.
And they said her boobs were a dangerous distraction.
It’s a Zionist conspiracy, I tells ya!
saywhat?
May 22nd, 2012
2:06 pm
I feel sorry for the poor inner city kids who will never get to experience such things as visits to US National Parks, all the excellent museums across the country, or the many fine coastal attractions.
In honor of that, I would like to propose a Georgia tax credit of $2500 when I donate that amount to an organization that provides scholarships to provide such experiences for the needy kids. Now, if my own family just happens to then qualify for a $2450 scholarship to do things we may have done on our own anyway, so be it. I’m willing to take that risk. After all, its for the needy inner city kids.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
2:06 pm
Just Damn Kam. I have avoided ALL DAY posting that article lol. Most recently I started to ask Doomy if that was his new girlfriend. ROFL
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 22nd, 2012
2:07 pm
@TaxPayer 1:36pm “We never write off any of our giving because that just plain violates the very spirit of charitable giving. I think we are long overdue for getting rid of all tax breaks for charitable giving.”
You are my soul mate….but I would go further to eliminate all deductions for anything other than other income-based taxes paid. Tax deductions are nothing more than government manipulation and redistribution of tax dollars/wealth…which so many people never quite seem to understand.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
2:08 pm
I saw that story and the pic that went with it. She’s not hot.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
2:08 pm
Godless heathen,
You may damn well be right about color tv, cable, x boxes, etc. Kids today just got way too much useless shyte to watch and partake of.
Fred,
I embellished about the dangerous travails of our travels. We were perfectly safe in our Sherman tank convoy.
Mick,
My best friend went to Catholic school. He got booted. Enough of those mean ole nuns smacking his knuckles with rulers. Ouch.
” I submit that most of the problems with education begins at home; if you have parents that care and monitor progress, most public schools can deliver an effective product. When the parents don’t care? All bets are off…”
I think that was the most salient point of the day Mick and my teacher sister sees it every day. Their home environment is everything and if the parents just don’t give a shyte then all bets are indeed off. And she teaches a class of 15 or so students because of a state law mandate regarding class size.
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
2:09 pm
There are alot of needy kids in the mountains and trailer parks as well. Don’t forget about them.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
2:10 pm
Becky, Fred DIDN’T call you a name.
Fred can go all “Whirling Dervish-y” in his posts sometime, but when he calls someone “a name” he’ll admit it.
Heck, sometimes he’ll double down on it.
see? No name calling here…
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:32 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:25 pm
Fred-my point was you made the choice to send junior to a private school, good for you. Now pay for it. And don’t think for a minute we know you weren’t bragging just a bit about the ability to do so.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I DO pay for it Becky, just as I pay my property taxes (and have for 30 years) to educate the children of others. As to bragging? You can stick your wealth envy up your ass right where it belongs. I tiold my wife 20 years ago to start saving because when we had kids they were going to Woodward Academy. She did and they do.
Woodward has scholarships for kids who can’t pay for it, just like I linked but you are so envious that you didn’t read a thing I have written, you looked at MY words and substituted YOUR twisted beliefs. At Woodward, they don’t allow you to “contribute” and pick your child for the “scholarship.’
I’ll hold my breath while I await your apology for your stupid assumptions……… (yeah right).
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
2:13 pm
PJ
So true. Not sure what the rates are now, but I read an article 10 or more years ago (I believe it was in the AJC) that several counties in North GA had drop out rates as high or higher than the APS
saywhat?
May 22nd, 2012
2:13 pm
“There are alot of needy kids in the mountains and trailer parks as well. Don’t forget about them.”
I will be sure to think of them when I use state tax dollars to vacation for a week at Rehoboth Beach in Delaware, or when I go see the Roy Lichtenstein exhibit in Chivago this summer.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 22nd, 2012
2:13 pm
I saw that story and the pic that went with it. She’s not hot.
That thought occurred to me also. Evidently the shop owners’ wives thought differently.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
2:14 pm
Fred,
Damn that was a funny link Kam posted. But I didn’t think that girl was that hot. She was ok but on a scale of 1-10 probably a 6 or 7 at best.
saywhat?
May 22nd, 2012
2:14 pm
Chivago is very near to Chicago, practically right on top of it, in case anybody was wondering.
Mary Elizabeth
May 22nd, 2012
2:15 pm
“The proposed amendment is being pushed by the same groups and politicians who pushed the scholarship legislation, using similar arguments about trying to help those trapped in underperforming schools. Their track record suggests that their concern is insincere, and that their larger goal is to undermine public education by diverting public dollars to finance schools pursuing a private agenda.”
=================================================
Your words above are correct, in my opinion, and your entire article is spot on. Thank you for it.
Public schools must not be dismantled. They can be improved from within. Many public schools are excellent. Propaganda against public schools has been spread by those with a private school agenda. The unscrupulous disclosure in the article above reeks of a society that is filled with deception, greed, and “looking after number one.” No wonder Jefferson was a strong advocate for public schools. The kind of America that these private school advocates are creating is the antithesis of the America of Thomas Jefferson’s egalitarian vision.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
2:16 pm
TBG-thanks? If I were to call you stupid, foolish, etc. would that be name calling? and to stick my wealth envy up my a$$. Apparently I consider name calling something entirely different than you and others here. No big deal. Fred isn’t worth my time and his views certainly aren’t.
Mick
May 22nd, 2012
2:17 pm
doom
Well, your sister is on the front lines and see’s it all. Another obstacle? Our entertainment culture. I visited a class of ninth graders recently and I asked these two questions:
How many of you think that you will be rich one day?
Almost all of their hands shot up.
How many of you think that not only will you be rich but famous also?
Almost all of their hands shot up.
What will you do to get there? Rap star, athlete, movie star, tv star etc. etc.
I told them that they need to have a plan b, because statistically only 5% actually become wealthy. It’s not impossible, this is america, but have a plan for your future. Doomy’s sister is an unsong hero in the battlefield of modern education!!!
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
2:17 pm
TD
Back in the day, we called her a “closing time” chick……
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
2:18 pm
Peter
May 22nd, 2012
1:28 pm
The religious Republican’s are at it again… saying put all the Queers in a barbed wire enclosure, and drop in food. – Do you have a link, cite, facts or are you LYING!
Imagine how dumb that sounds, never mind how Anti-Christian a statement that is. – Yes, it does sound dumb. Good thing *YOU* are the ONLY one saying it.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 22nd, 2012
2:18 pm
Chivago?
Wasn’t he a doctor in Russia that was in love with ;ara?
JohnnyReb
May 22nd, 2012
2:19 pm
I have not had a kid in school since the mid 8o’s, however, I am all for credits where parents decide which school they want their kid to attend and pay from their pocket the difference.
Government run schools would be just like private – all the money would have to come from credits and parents. No separate bump from tax funds.
No restrictions who where you live versus where your kid goes to school. If he/she rides the bus to school, there is a fee just like riding MARTA.
No teacher unions; no tenure. Merit based pay.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
2:21 pm
RB from Gwinnett
May 22nd, 2012
1:32 pm
Just copy and paste for us Becky. Very simple end to the question. Surely you can do that, right?
________________________________________________
Nope, because it DIDN’T happen.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
2:21 pm
That Black Guy-I am sorry to tell you there is a “pastor” in NC that is spewing that mess about gays. Be right back with link.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
2:22 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/pastor-delivers-anti-gay-rant-suggests-building-electric-142753831.html
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
2:23 pm
TBG @ 2:18
I preacher in NC did say that about gays.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/north-carolina-pastor-calls-death-gays-lesbians-trapping-electric-fence-article-1.1082160
Lets all be glad that he is in the minority………..
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
2:23 pm
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
1:36 pm
Also, a true Christian would not need a tax break to do the proper thing.
_________________________________________________________________________
You know, only God can determine who is a “true Christian” and who is not.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
2:25 pm
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
2:16 pm
TBG-thanks? If I were to call you stupid, foolish, etc. would that be name calling? and to stick my wealth envy up my a$$. Apparently I consider name calling something entirely different than you and others here. No big deal. Fred isn’t worth my time and his views certainly aren’t.
Now can we drop it?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 22nd, 2012
2:25 pm
Good thing *YOU* are the ONLY one saying it.
Ruh, roh.
As we used to say back in the day, “Now, ain’t your face tight.”
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
2:25 pm
K’Chak — “Chivago? Wasn’t he a doctor in Russia that was in love with ;ara?”
Well, that’s what my friend Pasternak said.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
2:26 pm
Mick,
Thanks. I’ll tell her that. She do love her kids she do. But the problems that they come to school with are just enormous. Many have no father figures, there’s a lot of sexual abuse, home violence and verbal abuse, lot of social ills etc.
they both suck,
I was trying to think of what that girl looked like but “closing time girl” is very befitting her. Fits the bill perfectly.
Fred,
I appreciated the CNN poop story. Doomy’s always up for a good poop story. Got a better one though. An acquaintance I knew worked as a penny stock hustler at this notorious bucket shop of a brokerage firm for years. Anyway, this broker specialized in losing folks money on crappy penny stocks. He sent a prospectus to one customer whom he had lost money on 4 or 5 different stocks. The customer wiped his ass with the prospectus and sent it back to him. Told the broker he could have his tp back because his charmin worked better.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
2:30 pm
Thulsa Doom, TBS, Kam – I don’t know, I was thinking “Butter Face” (but her face).
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
2:31 pm
Thulsa – You’re right, your poop story is better than the one about the guy from CNN.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
2:33 pm
that black guy, they both suck,
I think that hatemonger just ended his career as a pastor. And I also think he’s probably gay.
Gator Joe
May 22nd, 2012
2:35 pm
If you choose to send your child, or children to private schools fine, just don’t expect or ask for our tax dollars to subsidise or pay for your choice. Do what my wife and I did with our child back in FL (K-12 Catholic, 2006 graduated), pay the tuition for private school, and pay your school taxes. Don’t divert any more funds from an already woefully, if not criminally underfunded public school system.
Most of the voucher proponents could care less about the education of poor children, and are using these children as pawns to achieve their aim, partial or complete subsidies. Also,I suspect most of the voucher proponents wish to exclude their children from children culturally and racially different from the themselves. By the way, our child’s school, though it was Catholic, had children of all races, cultures, and religions and taught
acceptance of those differences.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 22nd, 2012
2:35 pm
(ir)Rational
A co-worker from long ago was in a garage band that played a song “Nice legs, But It’s A Shame About Your Face.”
HDB
May 22nd, 2012
2:36 pm
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
2:21 pm
….and the minister is catching it, too!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/22/charles-l-worley-north-carolina-pastor-gay-rights_n_1536039.html?ref=gay-voices
Charles L. Worley, North Carolina Pastor Who Called For Gays And Lesbians To Be Put In Electrified Pen, Faces Backlash
The North Carolina pastor who called for gays and lesbians to be put in an electrified pen and ultimately killed off is facing a backlash.
After video footage of Pastor Charles L. Worley’s homophobic May 13 sermon went viral, the official website for Providence Road Baptist Church in Maiden, N.C. had been yanked from the web. As The New Civil Rights Movement reports, site reader Rob Roberts was just one of several people to contact StoneWall Consulting Partners, the company who created the site for Worley, after the pastor’s speech hit the blogosphere.
“I asked them if they support genocide against gays and then told them I was ashamed of them,” Roberts is quoted by the site as saying.
The New Civil Rights Movement’s David Badash also noted, “Like all churches, Pastor Worley’s Providence Road Baptist Church doesn’t pay taxes. And by advocating for a specific political candidate he could (and should) lose his tax-exempt status.”
soontobe3rdworld
May 22nd, 2012
2:36 pm
Undermining public education is a key Republican issue. The goal really hasn’t changed from when the first big wave of “religious” schools appeared right after the Civil Rights law was passed. They tried and tried to get vouchers to subsidize their schools (notice that there were many Catholic and Jewish private schools already and those parents didn’t need vouchers). When they finally gave up on outright vouchers, they came up with this p.o.s. bill. Oh, and don’t tell me about how your private school has a few minorities. Sure, there are a few tokens plus the ones that can play offensive tackle. That doesn’t count. The really sad thing is that most of the people who support this stuff think they’re closer to the conservative elite than they are to the people they’re trying to avoid. Believe me, the 1% isn’t going to associate with you and could care less about you or your kids’ education.
Bosch
May 22nd, 2012
2:40 pm
Right on Jay. If you want your kids to go to private school, pay for it your own damn self. This is simply a scheme to divert tax money so that the privledge will have the best education.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
2:40 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
2:16 pm
TBG-thanks? If I were to call you stupid, foolish, etc. would that be name calling? and to stick my wealth envy up my a$$. Apparently I consider name calling something entirely different than you and others here. No big deal. Fred isn’t worth my time and his views certainly aren’t.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What she means is she got her panties in a wad because she misread something, went off on me because she misread and didn’t like getting it back. She sure as hell won’t admit she’s wrong, she lacks the character. So she attacked, called me names, and then moved the goal posts. It’s typical of many posters here, especially the hypocrites. “Becky” has had a bad day and I’m the one she decided to vent it on bless her heart.
That’s cool, I can take it. I’m am strong. I am woman here me roar……….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu4xpDuf84A
godless heathen
May 22nd, 2012
2:40 pm
me Propaganda against public schools has been spread by those with a private school agenda.
Those of us that have been in the working world for any length of time don’t reach the conclusion that the public schools are doing a poor job based on propaganda. The products of the public schools come to us every day and I’m not talking just about underprivileged kids from the “bad” schools, but graduates of the “best” high schools as well. They can’t perform basic math, write or spell. They seem to have no clue about the history of America before the 21st century, and no knowledge of civics or economics.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 22nd, 2012
2:41 pm
Hiya, Bosch.
Great game from Munich last Saturday.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
2:41 pm
(ir)Rational — “I don’t know, I was thinking “Butter Face”
We have a winner!
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
2:43 pm
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
2:31 pm
Thulsa – You’re right, your poop story is better than the one about the guy from CNN.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Yeah it was lol. Also your Sherman tank convoy was pretty funny too. You are on a roll. Did you sell a particularly crappy policy to a really BROKE old widow or something? :rofl:
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
2:43 pm
Kam – It sure is a shame about her face. With a decent body like she has, she would easily be an 8-8.5 if she had a cute face.
boo on you!
May 22nd, 2012
2:44 pm
yeah good argument Gator Joe and Bosch, you rich people pay for my kids to go to school too, I’m entitled to your wealth! what garbage!
Erwin's cat
May 22nd, 2012
2:45 pm
If public govt schools were worth a dang, this wouldn’t be an issue. If the private sector does a better job then so be it. A better question might be…”how can we change our public schools to be more efficient and effective as private or charter schools?” What are they doing right that the publics are doing wrong?
Competing for that guaranteed govt money might make public schools actually try to improve themselves and their product, which ultimately benefits everyone. This is not a cash grab from the charters as much as it is a cash hold for the publics….in all these arguments, nobody is talking about what is best for the students
Aquagirl
May 22nd, 2012
2:45 pm
I think that hatemonger just ended his career as a pastor. And I also think he’s probably gay.
Never have lived in North Carolina, have ya? At least you got the second part right.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
2:46 pm
On the topic of Catholic schools, do they generally admit all comers, at least from within church member families from within the parish? Or is there some sort of competitive selection process?
And on the topic of financial aid — do such schools tend to be more cost-effective (I guess that’s the expression I’m looking for) in terms of cost to the parents and value/quality of the education received? Also, is financial aid more readily available for needy Catholic families trying to get their kids into parochial schools than say, any family trying to get aid to go to a school like Pace or Westminster?
Perhaps some of our posters who have first-hand experience with this sort of thing can comment knowledgeably on the topic.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
2:47 pm
JHM – First time I ever won anything. First off, I want to thank everyone at the Academy. Wait, wrong speech. Thanks you bunch of ingrates.
weetamoe
May 22nd, 2012
2:48 pm
I don’t know how many states have similar programs, but some do. One of my former classmates lives in Arizona and is childless but she designates her state taxes for the scholarship funds there. I can not criticize scholarships. I attended private schools on academic scholarship and two of my kids earned merit finalist college scholarships. To understand why public schools have such horrible reputations (NY teacher *rubber rooms,* NJ teachers screaming death threats at Gov Christie, WI teachers revealing their ignorance on the very protests signs they carried) listen to the audio of that NC teacher.
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
2:50 pm
That Black Guy,
Is it written in any scriptures that one should base one’s giving on what one expects to receive.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
2:51 pm
“Did you sell a particularly crappy policy to a really BROKE old widow or something?”
Yeah. I took down someone’s granny this morning so I’m in a particularly good mood.
irRational,
She had an ok body but I think was probably a bit hefty in the caboose from what I could tell. they both suck said it best- She looks like a closing time girl.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
2:51 pm
dB: Bros, if you’re chilly, they’re burnin’ another straw man over here.
—————————–
Doom: You’re an old fart.
Takes one to recognize one.
—————————
Fred: Brocephus is still a pup
Appreciate the compliment. Closing in on the big 4-0, but you’d never know by the bald spot and the graying beard.
Also, if Fred’s namecalling, his preferred moniker is asshat. If he hasn’t used that term, he hasn’t called names….
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 22nd, 2012
2:51 pm
I think you guys are misunderstanding Pastor Charles L. Worley. That video wasn’t so much a rant as it was an audition tape for a job at The Westboro Baptist Church.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
2:51 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
2:46 pm
On the topic of Catholic schools, do they generally admit all comers, at least from within church member families from within the parish? Or is there some sort of competitive selection process?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I think it varies. One thing is for certain, they have a reputation for being tough GOOD schools. I’m not catholic but they would be the exception to my general distaste for “religious” schools. Especially the Jesuit Schools.
And look at the Catholic/Jesuit Universities: Notre Dame, Boston College, Georgetown, Loyola (all three) ect……….. all top notch schools.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
2:52 pm
Thulsa – Man, don’t you know that fat bottomed girls make the
rockinworld go round?Bosch
May 22nd, 2012
2:52 pm
Kamchak,
Indeed. I’ve been meaning to write you a note of congratulations all week!
boo,
I’ve argued this point on this blog for years. Go suck on it. These schemes brought on by the GOP are nothing but their hypocritical attempts to scheme tax money away from public schools for their own edification.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
2:52 pm
So that sleaze bucket Paterno’s widow to receive 14 million from that loser’s pension. You just can’t make this stuff up.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
2:52 pm
Mick
May 22nd, 2012
2:01 pm
doom
I guess I’m bucking the trend; in the best shape of my life, got the abs back and all, been working out very methodically since january. the single most important thing? Diet. Yes, it all comes to to a very simple philosophy – eat to live not live to eat. All the snacking, fast foods, junk foods need to go then..voila…all your old clothes will fit again. Plus, I don’t want to rack up sky high medicare bills because poor old jm needs a break from us greedy seniors…
_________________________________
Mick, if you don’t mind me asking, how old are you?
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
2:53 pm
Also, if Fred’s namecalling, his preferred moniker is asshat. If he hasn’t used that term, he hasn’t called names….
I’m trying to repent and change my evil ways.
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
2:53 pm
If the private sector does a better job then so be it.
I believe one of the numerous issues Jay has highlighted is the lack of accountability including test performance as is required in public schools. I’d say it’s pretty easy to meet or exceed non-existent criteria.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 22nd, 2012
2:53 pm
To understand why public schools have such horrible reputations…
…just you try dealing with the parents of the little hellions that attend public schools.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
2:54 pm
EC: …”how can we change our public schools to be more efficient and effective as private or charter schools?” What are they doing right that the publics are doing wrong?
The primary answer, in my opinion, is staring you right in the face. What is the difference between the two?? Politicians have not effed up private or charter schools. They are free from political tinkering. If you want to straighten out public schools, let the educators run it and kick the damned politicians and their lobbyists out.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
2:55 pm
Competing for that guaranteed govt money might make public schools actually try to improve themselves and their product, which ultimately benefits everyone.
Really? You think? Tell me how that has worked out with the “for profit” universities scams?
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
2:55 pm
Closing in on the big 4-0
And y’all thinkin he’s still a “pup.”
Bosch
May 22nd, 2012
2:56 pm
And spare me the “throwing money at public schools” load of garbage. Hell, I WISH they’d throw money at the schools instead of choking them to death and then bitching how they don’t work.
Thomas
May 22nd, 2012
2:56 pm
If you want your kids to go to private school, pay for it your own damn self.
Great answer. Kind of a Hannity response to the world- I was a poor white Italian who made it on my own. You- you little snot nosed 7 year old- you are going to school where the teachers and administrators cheat, the drop out rate is excessive, and survival is the main goal. You go succeed though. When you drop out- join the army and get shot- that is your own damn fault.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
2:56 pm
Aquagirl,
Are you suggesting a good number of North Carolinians would agree with that pastor? I’m sure most people can reasonably exercise just a modicum of common sense and understand a message of hate when they see it and that his comments are way outside of the mainstream. But at least he deflects from the usual jokes about Alabama or Mississippi.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
2:57 pm
Fred – Why would you stop calling people asshats? If the asshat fits, they should wear it.
243 more days
May 22nd, 2012
2:57 pm
Mick
May 22nd, 2012
1:29 pm
Well said, if the majority of parents gave a crap, it would make a BIG difference.
Peter
May 22nd, 2012
1:28 pm
Care to add a link or something to prove your statement, or are you just another flyby liberal with a big mouth. .
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
2:57 pm
Becky
Paterno wasn’t charged with anything. I would have to say that I personally believe he chose to ignore a horrific situation for the betterment of the school and himself, but that is my speculation.
Doggone/GA
May 22nd, 2012
2:57 pm
“Is it written in any scriptures that one should base one’s giving on what one expects to receive”
Is it written in any scriptures that you should not give if you are going to get something back?
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
2:58 pm
Fred
Don’t go changing your ways, I love that caustic outlook on life. You give me more laughs here than most anybody else.
—————————-
(ir)Rational
That’s because most posters here were on a first name basis with Ramses and Moses.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
2:58 pm
I think if we take some of that money that we’re cutting from teachers, and instead cut it from administrative support staff, we would probably be getting better product for out money.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
2:59 pm
Fred — “I think it varies. One thing is for certain, they have a reputation for being tough GOOD schools. I’m not catholic but they would be the exception to my general distaste for “religious” schools. Especially the Jesuit Schools.”
This has been my understanding, too. My wife has gotten to know a lady at her job who was a Katrina evacuee, and though she is not Catholic, she sent her kids to parochial school in NOLA. I presume the parochial schools had qualities preferable to the local public schools.
Your opinion of Catholic schools seems to mirror my own; I’ve heard Jesuit schools can be pretty intense, but of course I have no first-hand knowledge of that.
“And look at the Catholic/Jesuit Universities: Notre Dame, Boston College, Georgetown, Loyola (all three) ect……….. all top notch schools.”
No doubt. And all have well-deserved reputations for scholarship.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
2:59 pm
I think you guys are misunderstanding Pastor Charles L. Worley. That video wasn’t so much a rant as it was an audition tape for a job at The Westboro Baptist Church.
Oh hell Kam. That was awesome. Golf Clap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmjHT5GpAYQ
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
2:59 pm
Bosch,
I think we are spending more money on education per capita adjusted for inflation than ever before. And getting worse results. I think Switzerland may be the only nation in the world that spends more per capita on education than we do. I’ll have to double check that but I think that’s accurate.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
3:00 pm
TD @ 2:56
I must say I agree. While many pastors and individuals believe that homosexuality is wrong, the majority of those same people are not advocating that all gays be placed in a cage and left to die off.
There is a vast difference in the two
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
3:00 pm
Bro That’s because most posters here were on a first name basis with Ramses and Moses.
Now that is funny.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:01 pm
Thomas
May 22nd, 2012
2:56 pm
If you want your kids to go to private school, pay for it your own damn self.
Great answer. Kind of a Hannity response to the world- I was a poor white Italian who made it on my own. You- you little snot nosed 7 year old- you are going to school where the teachers and administrators cheat, the drop out rate is excessive, and survival is the main goal. You go succeed though. When you drop out- join the army and get shot- that is your own damn fault.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Did you not understand that quote you posted out of context or did you deliberately twist it?
Halftrack
May 22nd, 2012
3:01 pm
the movement was actually an ill-disguised scam to divert public taxpayer money to private schools that serve a middle-class clientele, with the plight of poor students being used as a cynical cover.
The other side of the coin is when Teachers cheat to make the public school look good on the achievement test – - – the poor students and the middle class students are both cheated.
Accountability is always the answer. Competition always makes anything better; therefore both sides need a chance, vouchers & public.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
3:01 pm
(ir)Rational — “And y’all thinkin he’s still a “pup.”
Let me put it this way. My wife is several years older than him. And when I married her, my friends and buddies from childhood and college were slapping my back over having snagged myself a wife notably younger than myself.
Verdict: PUP
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
3:01 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
2:16 pm
TBG-thanks? If I were to call you stupid, foolish, etc. would that be name calling? – No. If I said it was stupid and foolish for Obama to trust the republicians, that is not calling Obama stupid and foolish, just his decision.
and to stick my wealth envy up my a$$. – Still not name calling ________________________________________________________________________
Aquagirl
May 22nd, 2012
3:02 pm
Are you suggesting a good number of North Carolinians would agree with that pastor?
Oh yes. I saw that headline earlier today and thought “that’s news?”
Mick
May 22nd, 2012
3:03 pm
that black guy
Remember the neil young song, “Old Man”? When I was 24, I loved the line, “24 and so much more”. Then when I was 34 it was “34 and still a lot more” Now I’m 54 and sing “54 and there’s not much more”. Well, I’m determined to make an attempt for a lot much more…
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 22nd, 2012
3:04 pm
“On the topic of Catholic schools, do they generally admit all comers, at least from within church member families from within the parish? Or is there some sort of competitive selection process?”
I just went through the process with a few schools – some with church affiliation and others without. The process is competitive (very much so in some cases). There are applications, interviews (student and family), admissions tests (either national standardized or school-specific), letters of recommendation from teachers and coaches, etc. Then you wait to see if you have been “chosen” to attend – they send letters and all schools send them at the same time, so those few days are intense. Tuition for the high schools I looked at was pretty much in the $17k-$20k per year range. You can apply for financial aid, but I was told by some people not to do so because it might impact a student’s chances of being “chosen” – given my income level I thought I would not qualify anyway, so I didn’t ask about it. My son will be matriculating at a small non-sectarian private high school in a northern suburb this fall. I was given a small discount for paying in full – tuition was due last month (school starts in August). We also have to buy uniforms and books, pay lab fees, pay for field trips, provide our own transportation, etc., but lunch is included (catered every day, naturally…so my son will eat well as I nosh on my lunch brought from home).
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
3:04 pm
JHM – So that makes me what? I mean, he is almost (not quite, but it is conceivable) old enough to be my dad. At the very least, he is old enough to be my uncle (the Mrs. has an aunt that turned 40 last year).
Bosch
May 22nd, 2012
3:06 pm
“The other side of the coin is when Teachers cheat to make the public school look good on the achievement test – – – the poor students and the middle class students are both cheated.”
And yes, that would be a problem if it were a national epidemic instead of an isolated incident that people take out of turn and make it into something it’s not.
Matti
May 22nd, 2012
3:06 pm
I’d like to hear the teachers weigh in about where the money goes. My college-student niece is a volunteer tutor at a place downtown. Kids come in with little scraps of paper with their homework assignment written on them. “Where’s your textbook?” Don’t have one. There aren’t enough books for all the kids to have one, so nobody is allowed to take them home. !!???!!
If we are indeed spending enough money on education, but children do not have a copy of their textbook to read at night, then WHERE is the money going? It certainly isn’t being wasted on BOOKS!
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
3:08 pm
In a statement, relayed by msnbc.com, Gipson takes aim at “well-known radical liberal blog” The Huffington Post for a report about his earlier invocation of Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-28 to express his belief that homosexuality was a sin. The Leviticus verse says men who engage in sexual activities with other men should be put to death.
And yet elsewhere the Bible states thou shalt not murder. It’s gotta be rough being a Christian given so many cases of it being damned if you do and damned if you don’t. It’s just a good thing there are so many interpretations to choose from.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:08 pm
(ir)Rational and Brocephus: Actually until later posts, Becky wasn’t BEING an asshat, but she used her wealth envy and attacked me because of the sacrifices I have made to send my child to a great school so I told her to stick THAT up her ass. That’s when she went ballistic and lost all pretense of civility and rational thought.
And after that point there was no reason to identify her as an asshat, she was doing a great job by herself proving it lol. I actually have started to feel sorry for her bless her heart. She worked her way into an indefensible position and just lacks the moral fiber to admit she it. I always feel sorry for folks like that.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
3:08 pm
That Black Guy-well gosh! I can sleep better tonight knowing I was not involved in any name calling. Thank you so much!!!
Do you feel all better now?
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
3:10 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
2:21 pm
That Black Guy-I am sorry to tell you there is a “pastor” in NC that is spewing that mess about gays. Be right back with link.
_____________________________________________________
I may stand corrected, although, there is no mention of his political position. We can ASSume, but assumptions do not equal fact.
Peadawg
May 22nd, 2012
3:10 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/reid-blames-tea-party-extremism-looming-taxmaggedon-165939327–abc-news-politics.html
“Once Republicans are willing to abandon their commitment to more tax breaks for multi-millionaires and special interests and their plans to end Medicare, I am confident that we can reach an agreement,” Reid wrote. “Unfortunately, it appears that Republicans blind adherence to Tea Party extremism is making it impossible to reach this sort of balanced agreement before the election.”
Can I get an amen?
243 more days
May 22nd, 2012
3:11 pm
What a difference a day makes, Isn’t it wonderful, seeing two liberals exchanging barbs over WEALTH ENVY
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 22nd, 2012
3:11 pm
Yellow cards issued in, 3…2…1….
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
3:11 pm
Fred-you will still be laughed at when you attend the PTA meetings. You and your family are just not their kind dearie.
I will remain blissfully happy I am not you.
Have a wonderful evening down at the trailer park.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
3:12 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
2:25 pm
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
2:16 pm
Now can we drop it?
__________________________________________________________
Dropped like the Lakers last night
Sarah Gee
May 22nd, 2012
3:12 pm
Poor Jay. He can longer defend the idefensible so he attacks motives rather than the issues. It seems the democrats need a murky conspricy to keep their anger boiling. Jay has always been better at that than he has been dealing with real issues. More and more the left strikes me as though they are a man needing viagra to get er done. Without anger, there is not much left of progressivism in America.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
3:12 pm
Fred – Yeah, it happens to the best of us from time to time (although, I am not accusing her of being among the best of us). I did it yesterday with TBS, and I think he is still a bit pissed about it. You live and you learn.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
May 22nd, 2012
3:12 pm
Absent from the debate about the magnitude of funding required to provide high quality opportunities for all students in publicly funded schools in Georgia is a comprehensive system of analyses of each public education entity in our state. Such a system would include financial, personel and student achievement analyses of each school, local system and the GDOE, for starters. Before we have systematic data informing the debate about how effectively and efficiently our publicly funded entities are educating our kids, should we be eager to give them more money?
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
3:12 pm
That Black Guy-what on earth are you talking about political affiliations?
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
3:13 pm
Is it written in any scriptures that you should not give if you are going to get something back?
Do you base your decision on the answer to that one or the question that I posed. If no, then why do we need the tax break.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 22nd, 2012
3:13 pm
” “Where’s your textbook?” Don’t have one. There aren’t enough books for all the kids to have one, so nobody is allowed to take them home.”
My experience is that the textbooks are supposed to be accessed online for homework while the physical textbooks remain in the classroom for all students to use in class during the school day – at least in middle school, as I recall textbooks being brought home in elementary school. There are times when my teenage son would forget his head if it were not attached to his body, so online textbooks are a definite plus…at least for those of us with computers/iPads and internet access.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
3:14 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 22nd, 2012
2:25 pm
Good thing *YOU* are the ONLY one saying it.
Ruh, roh.
As we used to say back in the day, “Now, ain’t your face tight.” –
Haven’t heard THAT one in years. 
And yes, it’s pretty tight right now.
I was wrong.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
May 22nd, 2012
3:14 pm
ERROR: Line 4- personnel, not personel.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
3:14 pm
they both suck @3 pm,
You might want to tell aquagirl that. It seems she believes that a good number of North Carolinians consider this pastor’s comments to be acceptable. I’ve been to NC a number of times. Lot of good colleges there – Duke, Wake, UNC, W&L, Elon, and on and on. And the state voted for O last time around. I have a hard time believing that Aquagirl believes that the people of this state would find this pastor’s statements to be a social norm.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
3:15 pm
Doom @ 2:59
I don’t necessarily agree with the statement that we’re getting worse results. I think it looks that way now because we don’t have the job/career avenues that previous generations had. Think of the number of people who went to work in textile plants and other manufacturing jobs that were low wage/low skill jobs. We don’t have those buffers to absorb those who don’t perform well in school, so they stick out like a sore thumb now.
———————
(ir)Rational
See, I told you… First name basis…
———————
Fred
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
3:15 pm
Kam – I have to say one thing about that game Saturday. Cech is pretty freaking amazing. Bayern had 43 shots and only one found the back of the net (obviously not including PKs).
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:16 pm
LOL Becky, you are funny. There AREN’T “PTA meetings.” And I am very comfortable with our circle of friends. And while I don’t live in a trailer or a trailer park, I would gladly do so if that were the sacrifice it took to keep my daughter at Woodward.
You see dear, you can not touch me. You can not hurt me. I am too secure in who and what I am. You are a sad little person, bless your heart, sitting behind a computer screen who has been called out as being wrong by virtually everyone here who has commented.
My crime? LOL I agreed with you yet you misread it.
You have a wonderful evening dear, bless your poor little heart…………
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
3:16 pm
ir(rational)
While I didn’t appreciate the assertions and conclusions you seem to making yesterday based on my post, I’m good.
I’ve stuck my foot in my mouth several times on this blog
Apology accepted. It is all good.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
3:16 pm
NC pastor auditioning for westboro baptist in Kansas. Now thass funny!
Jimmy62
May 22nd, 2012
3:17 pm
We know one thing- No matter what Jay will do everything he can to make sure that people are relieved of the burden of choice, and that poor people cannot get a good education. He will fight to keep poor people ignorant and stuck in bad schools, he will fight to make sure bad teachers keep teaching, he will fight to make sure unions control schools, he will fight to keep the poor poor!
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
3:17 pm
“The other side of the coin is when Teachers cheat to make the public school look good on the achievement test – – – the poor students and the middle class students are both cheated.”
That could even be a problem in private schools but since they are not required to report comparable test results for comparison, how can we ever know.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
3:18 pm
Bro – Silly old people.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
3:18 pm
Peadawg
Reid’s a jackass for saying that. That mentality predates the Tea Party, so he’s wrong in stating that they are the cause. They are merely the result of grinding that ideology into the brains of people for the last 30 plus years.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
3:19 pm
TBS – I’ll blame my intemperance on my youth.
Mick
May 22nd, 2012
3:19 pm
**sure unions control schools**
As if….you are a walking right wing cliche misinformed dupe…
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
3:20 pm
Fred-uh huh. Keep living in your dream world and stick that up your fat a$$. My my that does feel good coming down to your level for just a bit. Night nite little man.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
3:21 pm
Bro
While I probably agree with Reid on a number of things, I really do not think he is a good leader. He does and says something at times that just baffle the mind.
Dems in Senate picked wrong man in my opinion.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:22 pm
(ir)Rational: I thought you were older than that lol.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
3:22 pm
ARMW — Thanks much for the detailed explanation.
(ir)Rational — “JHM – So that makes me what?”
Schoolboy.
Thomas heyward Jr.
May 22nd, 2012
3:22 pm
Sarah Gee
May 22nd, 2012
3:12 pm
“Poor Jay. He can longer defend the idefensible so he attacks motives rather than the issues. It seems the democrats need a murky conspricy to keep their anger boiling. Jay has always been better at that than he has been dealing with real issues. More and more the left strikes me as though they are a man needing viagra to get er done. Without anger, there is not much left of progressivism in America.”
.
That’s a good one Ms. Sarah Gee.
.
The proggies can’t be anti-war or pro-civil liberties anymore, thanks to Barry.
They gotta moan about something.
Georgia Needs Ethics Reform
May 22nd, 2012
3:23 pm
Without ethics, this state continues to dupe its citizens. Vote NO for the TSPLOST and Charter School Admendment.
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
3:23 pm
he will fight to keep the poor poor!
yeppers, Jay’s evil like that.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
3:24 pm
Jimmy62 — “We know one thing- No matter what Jay will do everything he can to make sure that people are relieved of the burden of choice, and that poor people cannot get a good education.”
Your impersonation of Dave R is right on target.
It has to be true.
May 22nd, 2012
3:24 pm
Becky has got to be related to Granny Godzilla.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
3:24 pm
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
2:50 pm
That Black Guy,
Is it written in any scriptures that one should base one’s giving on what one expects to receive.
______________________________________________________________________
I don’t think so.
But that still does not mean anyone other than God can determine who is a “true Christian” and who is not.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
3:25 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
2:52 pm
“So that sleaze bucket Paterno’s widow to receive 14 million from that loser’s pension. You just can’t make this stuff up.”
Becky,
That’s a pretty judgemental call there ma’am. At the time Joe Pa passed on what he was told to his 2 bosses the AD and the school president. He felt that was enough at the time. Could he have done more? Absolutely and his failure to have gone the extra mile merited his dismissal.
But the man did a lot of good in his lifetime. He gave very generously- millions of millions of dollars to scholarship funds and the school’s general fund. He molded countless young men. One lapse in judgment does not cancel out an entire lifetime of shaping and effecting hundreds if not thousands of young lives in a positive fashion. I hope will take this into account and reconsider your rather harsh characterization of the man.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
3:25 pm
Fred – Nah, I’m a good dozen years behind Bro.
JHM – That’s actually true. I’m starting grad school in the fall.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:26 pm
KAM: It’s a shame you are up in N. Carolina (I think). I was talking to some buddies and trying to schedule (find) some places to watch the Olympic soccer matches. I’m pretty pumped up. While it’s always fun to watch, it’s more fun to watch with a group. I was surprised during the World Cup when I was watching because of the diversity of the fans that showed up where we were. I knew Atlanta touts itself as an “international” city, but I never really saw it so much as when the World Cup was on.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
3:26 pm
Becky
I think you need to let it go.
Looks like another blog TKO…………….
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 22nd, 2012
3:26 pm
Bayern had 43 shots and only one found the back of the net (obviously not including PKs).
That’s a pretty amazing stat. While it was a must win (in order to remain in the UCL) for The Blue Lions, it seemed to me that Bayern was playing with a reckless desperation. Many of those 43 shots were way off frame (”High, wide and not very ‘andsome” as Tommy Smythe would say) and ill advised. And Muller’s header — straight into the ground — brilliant and virtually unstoppable.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
3:26 pm
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
3:26 pm
New Bumper Sticker:
Welcome to Georgia—–Less Public Education/More Prisons—We Love our kids!
That should really bring in more new businesses and make this a desirable place to raise children.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
3:27 pm
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
2:33 pm
that black guy, they both suck,
I think that hatemonger just ended his career as a pastor. – Not so sure about that. Pastors, like politicians, know their audience.
And I also think he’s probably gay. – On this we agree.
JohnnyReb
May 22nd, 2012
3:27 pm
All the Moonbats who support trickle up poverty probably think it’s” fair” for parents to pay school taxes when their kid does not go to a public school in that city/county? It’s not fair. And it’s the root cause of this ridiculous mess, which I do not support but understand.
Matti
May 22nd, 2012
3:27 pm
AngryRedMarsWoman,
It makes sense for plugged-in students to access content online. I remember watching my third grader tip over from the weight of the bookbag. “Goodness! How are you supposed to outrun the neighborhood perverts with 60 pounds of books strapped to your body?” But economically disadvantaged children whose parents can’t, won’t, or simply don’t provide them with technology still need to be educated. They need MORE, not less, in order to avoid the trappings of ignorance and poverty, glean some job skills, and become middle-class working stiffs who support the rich and poor (in varying degrees) in this nation.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:28 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
3:20 pm
Fred-uh huh. Keep living in your dream world and stick that up your fat a$$. My my that does feel good coming down to your level for just a bit. Night nite little man.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Oh I’m so crushed lol. But I’m confused? A while ago I was a biog man but now I’m a little man? I’m not sure I can figure out what I am unless you guide me so which is it?
You so funny Becky. And I STILL haven’t called you a name lol.
GFY
May 22nd, 2012
3:28 pm
I make no apologies for contributing to my child’s education and will give them every legal advantage I can. If you do not do the same for your child you are a pathetic parent. Curious to know how many posters on this blog actually have a dog (children) in this fight? I am fairly certain the author does not.
Doggone/GA
May 22nd, 2012
3:28 pm
“Do you base your decision on the answer to that one or the question that I posed. If no, then why do we need the tax break.”
If having the tax break is the difference between thousands being donated and millions being donated, then that’s why we need it.
Keep up the fight Georgia....
May 22nd, 2012
3:29 pm
…and register to vote…and VOTE….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP6Mcvgdrtg&feature=related
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
3:30 pm
Fred-you already said you were fat now I am just talking about your naughty bits. See-big and little. hahahhahahahahahhahahhaha
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:30 pm
It has to be true.
May 22nd, 2012
3:24 pm
Becky has got to be related to Granny Godzilla.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Oh hell no. Granny Godzilla is lucid, funny, makes sense, and has a sense of humor. I LIKE Granny lol. I feel sorry for poor little Becky bless her heart.
Mighty Righty
May 22nd, 2012
3:30 pm
I have to agree with Jay on this one. I hate it when that happens.
Recon 0311 2533
May 22nd, 2012
3:31 pm
Looks like this thread topic has more than run its course. It’s degenerated into mostly just verbal warfare between Fred and Becky.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
3:31 pm
JohnnyReb — “All the Moonbats who support trickle up poverty probably think it’s” fair” for parents to pay school taxes when their kid does not go to a public school in that city/county? It’s not fair. And it’s the root cause of this ridiculous mess, which I do not support but understand.”
If you don’t want to pay your taxes, you can always pull a Saverin and GTFO.
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
3:32 pm
Could you guys backing a privatized/pay-what-ya-like kinda deal to fund schooling, kindly draw up a list of our industrialized international competitors that fund their educational systems that way?
I’d sure like to see how that’d work in actual practice.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
3:34 pm
(ir)Rational
I’m looking forward to joining their ranks though. I plan to be an ornery, crusty old bastich!!!
—————————
No matter what Jay will do everything he can to make sure that people are relieved of the burden of choice, and that poor people cannot get a good education.
IF, and that’s a big if, that were the case of the Georgia program, you might have a decent jab at Jay. However, there’s these things called facts that kinda stand in your way. Had you bothered to read the piece that Jay linked to, you would have found this little nugget here:
In Georgia, the scholarship program was criticized for widespread abuses in a report last year by the Southern Education Foundation, a nonprofit group based in Atlanta that works to improve education.
State Representative Earl Ehrhart, a Republican who helped write the Georgia law, called that report “sophistry” and said that any abuses in the program were anomalies. “I can’t tell you about the difference it makes in the lives of these kids,” Mr. Ehrhart said.
The report found that from 2007, the year before the program was enacted, through 2009, private school enrollment increased by only one-third of one percent in the metropolitan counties that included most of the private schools in the scholarship program.
The logical conclusion was that most of the students receiving the scholarships had not come from public schools.
“The law was passed under a certain promise,” said Steve Suitts, vice president of the foundation. “There is no evidence it’s going to those purposes. The kids who were supposed to benefit are not benefiting.”
There’s even a link to that report, if you would like to see things for yourself. However, given that you didn’t even check Jay’s source material, I seriously doubt you’d bother to do the leg work to actually see whether any of this is verified by concrete evidence.
If you want to see the report, here’s the link.:
http://www.southerneducation.org/content/pdf/A_Failed_Experiment_Georgias_Tax_Credit.pdf
You’ll probably love pages 14-18, which deals with Jay’s post. There’s this part that’s really interesting….
Several SSOs and many private schools have decided that the law requires only that a student enroll—not actually attend—a public school to be eligible for a scholarship. This practice became evident In August 2009 when the Atlanta Journal‐Constitution (AJC) reported that parents and students attending private schools were showing up at public schools “to fill out paperwork to enroll their kids in public schools solely to qualify” for the tax‐funded scholarships—“with no intention of actually attending classes in the public school.”8 The news story did not determine how widespread the practice had become but identified three school districts reporting the local practice by parents. The newspaper also found officials at two private schools who admitted that some of their students were using the state law’s “loophole” to receive tax‐funded scholarships.
State Rep. Earl Ehrhart, one of the law’s sponsors, told an AJC reporter that he thought it was legal for parents to use this “loophole” but described use of it as “an anomaly. There is no conspiracy there.” In December 2009, however, at a meeting sponsored by the Georgia Student Scholarship Organization (GASSO), State Rep. David Casas, another sponsor of HB 1133, told parents how Killian Hill Christian School in Gwinnett County had received $85,000 in SSO scholarships to help keep students in the private school—not to help new students transfer from public schools.9
In addition, in a videotape of the same meeting that has since been used at other GASSO meetings, Rep. Casas informs private school parents that as a sponsor of the law he deliberately specified “enroll” instead of “attend” in HB 1133 in order to ensure that tax credit subsidies would support students already in private schools. Rep. Casas states:
Some people felt a little bit weird about that; felt it was a little
dishonest that they would take their child, enroll them in a public
school and not have them actually attend, but all of a sudden they
actually qualify for a scholarship. I’m telling you, we deliberately put
the wording in there for that.10
Rep. Casas’ taped assertion is an admission of a deliberate deception on the part of a public official and an overt contradiction of his own public statements made while seeking support for the legislation in 2008. On his own website on March 4, 2008, Rep. Casas issued a press statement saying that the “Georgia House is considering legislation to permit tax credits worth up to $50 million annually to fund scholarships for students to transfer from public schools to private schools. It would help parents who can’t afford private education, such as those struggling in Clayton, DeKalb, and other counties who want to leave underperforming public schools” (emphasis added; see Appendix 3 for documentation).
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
3:35 pm
I’m telling you, we deliberately put the wording in there for that
muh thuh fukkuh…
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
3:36 pm
Kam – Bayern just wasn’t playing to their usual standards. I love watching them play. It is completely different from watching the English teams, as they’re typically so fast and aggressive. I always compare it to watching the Pac 10 vs watching the SEC (with the EPL being more like the SEC). One is all about scoring, the other is all about defense with some teams that can really run up the score if they so choose.
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
3:36 pm
But that still does not mean anyone other than God can determine who is a “true Christian” and who is not.
You might want to consider spreading that word amongst the many pastors out there condemning gays, lesbians, etc. Whatever happened to that casting the first stone thingie or do they think it only applies to their flock and only when they tell them it applies. Anyway, I think I have also heard that a “true Christian” is one that believes in Christ and one that believes in Christ knows that Christ is here to forgive all who accept him as their savior. He did not put any other conditionals on that which means the gay and murderer, etc., can all be forgiven. Last time I checked, that’s all that is required.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
3:36 pm
“Oh I’m so crushed lol. But I’m confused? A while ago I was a biog man but now I’m a little man? I’m not sure I can figure out what I am unless you guide me so which is it?”
Fred,
I think you’re still a fat ass by your own admission.
JamVet
May 22nd, 2012
3:36 pm
President Obama, through the Joining Forces Initiative, will be giving free annual passes to all of our National Parks and public lands to all active-duty military and their families. Now, over 2000 sites will be available for our troops and their families to visit at no charge.
It might seem just like a nice gesture to offer the free pass, but it really is more. It’s an understanding by the President, as well as the First Lady and Jill Biden (who head up the initiative), of the importance of public lands to those who served. This is an issue I’ve been personally working on for over a year, now.
Stand with me today and make your voice heard by submitting a letter to the editor in your state thanking the President for his commitment to military families.
But I suggest you hurry, before the anti-environment, “corporations are people too, my friend” gang slashes, burns, drills, poisons and destroys every acre of public land that they can…
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
May 22nd, 2012
3:36 pm
16 years ago, just a blip in time, we were the jewel of the new south,
hosting the world’s olympics, & the G8.
Now we have comedians saying stuff like “Deliverance is a documentary”
Congratulations, Georgia Republicans. no, really.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:38 pm
JohnnyReb
May 22nd, 2012
3:27 pm
All the Moonbats who support trickle up poverty probably think it’s” fair” for parents to pay school taxes when their kid does not go to a public school in that city/county? It’s not fair. And it’s the root cause of this ridiculous mess, which I do not support but understand.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
LOL “Trickle up poverty?” The silly phrases your puppet masters get you to say. That one is as funny as “job creators.”
But as a parent with a child who is in private school, I say not only yes but HELL YES it is “fair” for me to pay my damn property taxes like every other damn American AND pay FOR MY OWN choice to send my daughter to private school.
Educating our children is a NATIONAL responsibility. How stupid are you to think it’s not? Regardless of whether or not one has children paying for education benefits us all as a society AND a Country. Only the grossly stupid would think otherwise.
WOW JohnnyReb, I don’t know where you are trying to go with this but just damn. I have disagreed with you in the past, but I’ve never doubted your intelligence before. Please don’t make me start now. This isn’t a “left or right” issue. It’s a damned common sense issue that should be evident to everyone.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 22nd, 2012
3:38 pm
…he will fight to make sure unions control schools…
Geez, not this crap again.
The teachers in Ga. aren’t unionized in the sense that you are making it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fred
There’s a number of places up here in the hills that have color TeeVees and a couple even have DirecTV, it’s how I could catch some of the Chelsea matches during knock-out stage since Fox Soccer Channel seemed to have an exclusive on the UCL, but I catch your meaning, there’s not a lot of soccer fans up here and I was generally watching the game alone. I don’t mind, I was glad the final was on a station that I could watch alone, I’m afraid I got a bit vocal during that game.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
3:39 pm
that black guy,
That NC preacher- He kinda looks like Larry Craig. Who knows? They may be twins separated at birth.
G Mare 71( got the living' the red state BLUES!)
May 22nd, 2012
3:39 pm
Peadog, AMEN!!!
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 22nd, 2012
3:40 pm
@JohnnyReb 3:27pm. I pay a buttload of taxes for a lot of things that I do not use directly…and by that I mean nearly 40% last year between state, federal and social security. While I do believe that parents should have some skin in the game in addition to the property taxes they pay, I think that the general citizenry should provide the base for a public education system inasmuch as an educated population does generally benefit all of us. My taxes pay for roads I will never drive on. My taxes pay for police and fire to make my community safe, but I hope that I never have to call on them to help me personally. I pay for bombs and bullets…and the brave men/women who use them on my behalf. I pay taxes that help people who are unable to help themselves. I also pay taxes so other taxpayers can pay less by deducting their mortgage interest and charitable contributions along with their childcare and medical expenses and so that seniors in my county do not have to pay school taxes regardless of their income and even if they have grandchildren in their home attending the local public schools……oh, yeah, my precious tax dollars do all of that and more whether I like it or not….so, you know, just write the check and be happy you live in the greatest nation on earth, I know I am and I am thankful for it every day.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
3:41 pm
St. Simons – Deliverance most definitely isn’t a documentary, but the book was written based off the author’s experiences. At least from what I’ve heard. I don’t always believe what my dad tells me.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:42 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
3:30 pm
Fred-you already said you were fat now I am just talking about your naughty bits. See-big and little. hahahhahahahahahhahahhaha
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Oh look. Becky made a joke. And I said earlier she didn’t have a sense of humor. Got that one wrong didn’t I lol?
That was funny Becky. Golf clap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmjHT5GpAYQ
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:44 pm
Recon 0311 2533
May 22nd, 2012
3:31 pm
Looks like this thread topic has more than run its course. It’s degenerated into mostly just verbal warfare between Fred and Becky.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Figures my favorite stalker would hone inon that. Hey Del, here’s a good chance for you to get some licks in. You have a tag team partner now……..
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
May 22nd, 2012
3:44 pm
Interesting…
http://www.thenation.com/blog/167999/its-official-watching-fox-makes-you-stupider?rel=emailNation
JamVet
May 22nd, 2012
3:45 pm
As for the morons who contend that labor unions have are evil, I would recommend the foolowing legislation.
Remove every last benefit that the right wing parasites now enjoy.
Weekends off.
Paid vacation.
Paid sick days.
Worker safety regulations.
Paid health benefits.
And on and on and on and on.
THEN let them piss on the people who got them those benefits.
I’d personally love to see Reb and the rest of these Republimooches pony up for their own bennies for once in their lives.
Hell, the lazy jerkoffs even take off Labor Day!
Aquagirl
May 22nd, 2012
3:46 pm
have a hard time believing that Aquagirl believes that the people of this state would find this pastor’s statements to be a social norm.
I’m more acquainted with the backwaters, not the college towns. The idea of bashing queers for Jesus is pretty much a social norm in places like Pembroke…..especially in the churches.
To be accurate, that pastor wasn’t actually advocating outright killing of gay people, just herding them into enclosures like animals and leaving them there. I’d say that’s a perfectly acceptable viewpoint to many folks outside the big cities.
Hank Ezell
May 22nd, 2012
3:46 pm
Thanks,Jay
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
3:46 pm
Persian
rugsSHEETZ.TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
3:47 pm
If having the tax break is the difference between thousands being donated and millions being donated, then that’s why we need it.
Is that really what’s happening though given that the tax break, in some cases at least, means that less goes to things paid for by taxes such as food for the starving, etc., while more goes to building huge monuments to worship in. So, I would ask first if more money is truly being donated to help people truly in need and second, why do “charitable” people need to be bribed to give to charity?
JohnnyReb
May 22nd, 2012
3:48 pm
Fred – I wrote not one word about me paying school taxes with no children in school. That’s for another day. What I did write is, it’s not fair for parents with kids in school to pay school taxes (within their property taxes) when they have their kid in private school. To do so is another form of welfare and government social engineering. Both absolute failures.
JamVet
May 22nd, 2012
3:49 pm
The Christian right in this country drags down our academic standards terribly.
Out of the 32 industrialized nations on this planet, ONLY Turkey has a lower percentage of people who believe in evolution!!!
Brought to you by the very same nutjobs that swear anthropogenic climate change is a vast left wing conspiracy designed to destroy the United States.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
3:49 pm
ARMW @ 3:40
If we were anywhere nearby, I’d hug you dearly for that one. Just as long as no jealous guy’s sittin’ next to you ready to open up a can of whoopass.
Recon 0311 2533
May 22nd, 2012
3:49 pm
“Figures my favorite stalker would hone inon that. Hey Del, here’s a good chance for you to get some licks in. You have a tag team partner now……..”
Fred, now you know that I can chase you into hiding out until you’re sure I’m off the blog but it does look like you can hold your own against Becky. smiley face.
JohnnyReb
May 22nd, 2012
3:51 pm
JamVet – I’m self employed and instead of being a moocher support more than my “fair” share of the downtrodden. All that time off you reference must be for government workers.
Mary Elizabeth
May 22nd, 2012
3:52 pm
Fred, 3:38 pm
“But as a parent with a child who is in private school, I say not only yes but HELL YES it is ‘fair’ for me to pay my damn property taxes like every other damn American AND pay FOR MY OWN choice to send my daughter to private school.
Educating our children is a NATIONAL responsibility. . . .Regardless of whether or not one has children paying for education benefits us all as a society AND a Country.”
==========================================
Your expansive heart and independent spirit is what I like about you, Fred. What you say is true. I have no child in school, now, and I gladly pay property taxes to support public education for ALL of Georgia’s children. But, I do not want my public tax dollars going to support the profit margins of private schools. Pulbic schools are not profit based. They are designed to serve the public’s interest and the public’s welfare.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
3:52 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
3:12 pm
That Black Guy-what on earth are you talking about political affiliations?
_____________________________________________________________________________
Becky, Peter said:
Peter
May 22nd, 2012
1:28 pm
The religious Republican’s are at it again
_______________________________________________________________________
Peter labled him a repub, the story didn’t say.
He was attempting to smear both religious people and repub in one broad stroke.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
3:57 pm
Mick
May 22nd, 2012
3:03 pm
that black guy
Remember the neil young song, “Old Man”? – Can’t say that I do.
54 and got your abs back, cool.
I’m 45 and still have my 6 pack.
It looks like a keg, but then again, a keg is just SEVERAL 6 packs, right? RIGHT?
Kim Dyson
May 22nd, 2012
3:57 pm
I am the CEO of a Georgia SSO and we had the same criticisms about the program that the article highlights when we first got involved in Georgia but we decided to do something about it.
We fixed the problems by designing our SSO to address those issues head-on.
AAA Scholarship Foundation is different from every other SSO in Georgia in that we:
• Award scholarships directly to families – not schools
• Award scholarships solely to qualifying low-income families
• Empower parents to choose the best school for their child(ren) – scholarships follow the children to each school as long as the family remains eligible
• Award scholarships for a 3-year term because we believe that continuity of the educational setting is important for children to succeed
• Have over 15 years hands-on experience successfully administering tax-credit scholarship programs (Florida and Georgia)
• Have contracted with a nationally-respected 3rd party provider to objectively determine each family’s scholarship qualification
• Have a CPA on-staff to ensure that tax questions are answered correctly and to ensure timely and accurate reporting
We are truly helping those families for whom this program was designed – the low-income and working-class families who otherwise would not be able to afford to send their children to the schools that best meet their learning needs.
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
3:59 pm
Thanks for posting that Kim.
If we could put those standards into law, this program would be much more supportable.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
4:05 pm
JohnnyReb
May 22nd, 2012
3:48 pm
Fred – I wrote not one word about me paying school taxes with no children in school. That’s for another day. What I did write is, it’s not fair for parents with kids in school to pay school taxes (within their property taxes) when they have their kid in private school. To do so is another form of welfare and government social engineering. Both absolute failures.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
JohnnyReb: What you are saying is akin to saying that paying city (or county) taxes for water when you buy bottled water to drink is paying double taxes. No it’s not. The water is there you CHOOSE NOT to drink it.
The schools are there. I choose NOT to send my daughter to them. As such, it’sup to me to bear the burdon of that expense
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
4:07 pm
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia @3:36 pm
You are soooo right. That’s before we tried to compete with being the most backwards against AL and MS. Remind me which party held power then? And all because a bunch of yahoos were mad about a flag. Hell, they didn’t even get back the flag they wanted and we are now paying for their ignorance. Leave it up to the retrograde thinkers now in charge and their loyal followers and the next thing you know we won’t have the busiest airport in the world anymore but a stagecoach hub.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
4:07 pm
Recon 0311 2533
May 22nd, 2012
3:49 pm
“Figures my favorite stalker would hone inon that. Hey Del, here’s a good chance for you to get some licks in. You have a tag team partner now……..”
Fred, now you know that I can chase you into hiding out until you’re sure I’m off the blog but it does look like you can hold your own against Becky. smiley face.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Woot. Good one Del.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
4:15 pm
Kim
Thank you for posting that. That gives me hope that there are still people who really try to help those that need it most.
JohnnyReb
May 22nd, 2012
4:16 pm
JohnnyReb: What you are saying is akin to saying that paying city (or county) taxes for water when you buy bottled water to drink is paying double taxes. No it’s not. The water is there you CHOOSE NOT to drink it.
The schools are there. I choose NOT to send my daughter to them. As such, it’sup to me to bear the burdon of that expense
____________
No Fred – having to pay school taxes when you don’t use the school is but one of a long list of liberties our government has stripped from us in the name of public good.
Being in the bleeding heart group, you of course see nothing wrong with that.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
4:27 pm
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
3:26 pm
Becky
Looks like another blog TKO…………….
Teddy P, is that you?
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
4:33 pm
TBG @ 4:27
I was wondering if someone was going to catch that play on Teddy P
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
4:34 pm
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
3:39 pm
that black guy,
That NC preacher- He kinda looks like Larry Craig. Who knows? They may be twins separated at birth.
____________________________________________________________
Did he have a “wide stance” when he gave that “sermon”?
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
4:40 pm
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
3:49 pm
ARMW @ 3:40
If we were anywhere nearby, I’d hug you dearly for that one. Just as long as no jealous guy’s sittin’ next to you ready to open up a can of whoopass.
__________________________________________________________________________
You could always shine the baldspot in his eyes and blind him.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 22nd, 2012
4:52 pm
Brosephus™ May 22nd, 2012 3:49 pm.
Hug away….my man knows I am true to him.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
5:11 pm
JohnnyReb — “No Fred – having to pay school taxes when you don’t use the school is but one of a long list of liberties our government has stripped from us in the name of public good.”
Cry me a river.
You can certainly do a Saverin and leave if you don’t like it.
saywhat?
May 22nd, 2012
5:33 pm
Gee Johnny Reb- I never invaded Iraq- do my taxes have to pay for that?
Z
May 22nd, 2012
6:02 pm
Who needs enemies when we have Republicans in our Myst. They take from the poor, the middle class, they are devious, deceptive, and not fit for public Office. Vote everyone of these fools out come election time. How dare they fund their children’s private education with my Tax dollars when if the truth be know they are the ones who can afford the private schools the most. If they want their children indoctrinated with Religious lies they can pay for it themselves. Just disgusting but not surprising.
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
May 22nd, 2012
8:45 pm
Jay, our public school system (thanks to the Democrats), just like the US Postal Service, are both headed to the trash heap. They are unable to deliver a usable product at any price, much less an efficient price. Folks that pay all these property taxes, and yet must also pay private school tuition, would like to get something out of the deal.
Who is Fooled by the ‘Bait and Switch?’ –
May 23rd, 2012
6:01 am
[...] I try to avoid regurgitation, so to get the full story, check out both the NY Times article as well as Jay Bookman’s blog post in the AJC. [...]
Mr_B
May 23rd, 2012
6:58 am
” just like the US Postal Service, are both headed to the trash heap. They are unable to deliver a usable product at any price, much less an efficient price. ” Ask UPS of FedEx to deliver a letter from NY to LA for 50 cents. The laughter will deafen you.
Mary Anderson Hill
May 23rd, 2012
11:38 pm
Dear Mr Bookman, Thank you for this column. So much like this is going on in education in our state at this time that it has become doubtful that we will ever (at less not in the near future) educate our children from or near poverty as well as needed. The goal of our legislators for the most part seems to be to either destroy public education or to bring back seregation in another form–or, perhaps, it is just to make money for themselves. I was a long time educator in Cobb County Public Schools both as a teacher and as an administrator. I ended my time as the principal of two Title I schools. While at the last school, a new one I opened–the first new one in a long time in our community–it became the second Georgia School of Excellence in the state which positioned it to become one of the first Georgia public schools to become a public charter school. We did wonders for our children, primarily minority and from backgrounds of need. Now even the term public charter school is being taken over by what are private charter schools and these are the ones being pushed by our legislators. When Bryant became a School of Excellence what was granted us was the ability to request changes in the operation of our school so that it could be operated, not as were all others in the county, but operated in a manner that met the real needs of our particular school population. I believe that is still what a real public charter school is in Georgia. We were a part of our school system, unlike private charter schools. We recieved the same funds as always including our merited federal Title I funds, but we could use these funds to best meet our school needs, not as set up by the county for all schools. We made many changes that added greatly to our school, including adding a four year old before Governor Miller made this possible. I have written a book to tell about this, to tell a manner in which Title I schools need to operate in our nation to actually meet the needs of children who begin school already several years behind the children from middle and higher income homes. This is a reality that cannot be argued for I have taught and been an administrator in all of these types of schools and I, like others with this experience, have witnessed this. Now many private charter schools present themselves as public because they draw from public schools–and recieve public schools money (taken away from the true public schools). Many of these schools are poorer, often far poore in the education they offer than our counties’ public schools, but some how this message does not get out generally. I have experienced this also. Some community members, young mothers, met with me and another experienced retired principal in our area. (I moved from east Cobb to south Cobb, so the Title I area in Cobb is my home.) As with most other areas of our country the schools are not as wonderful here as in the east or west part of the county.) These mothers mentioned earlier wanted to start an International Bacelaurete elementary/middle school here to compliment the IB magnet high school program already in our part of the county. This is a very challenging program. They had already talked with an operator of one of the large private charter school companies and had been sold a wonderful bill of goods. We told them that they should approach the county and try to develop these schools through already exsisting public schools in our area, but they were convinced that the charter group would keep all of their promises, so went ahead organizing the school with them. This is the same school that our local school board member is being critisized for voting to close this year while is supporting opening another type school with a far better reputation. This school that was closed far deserved to be. I had a granddaughter who moved to the school its first year of operation and I volunteered there. It was a total disaster. My grandchild and all of the children of the founding members dropped out. The group kept none of their original promises, including not to low-ball teacher and administrator pay–really lower it. I can tell you one horror story after another. One point is that test scores have been consistently low over the five years of their contract. It was time to close this school. Later when the state brought in Charter schools for children with learning disabilities one was opened in our general locality. I have another grandchild with learning disabilities. He was having a rough year, so I talked with the owner’s son–a vice president of the group and he told me wonderful tales, so like the young mothers, I was taken in. At the school’s opening Eric Johnson, the Georgia legislator from Savanah, was present. As things progressed I realized that promises here too were not being kept. I even learned that some parents were encouraged to enroll their child because he/she would not have to take a graduation test. It seemed that very little instruction and a lot of busy work was going on, so I met with the principal and asked to do an evaluation in my grandson’s class. As a Cobb principal I had been trained in several methods of evaluation of classrooms and had done it consistantly as a part of my job, so he agreed and I proceeded. The evaluation that I did consisted of writing down everything I observed and much of what was said minute by minute for the majority of the day. I came home, typed it up, made copies, and asked to meet with the principal and the teacher. On the designed day I was surprised to find the system vice-president from Florida present. Luckily, I had extra copies of my observation. I passed them out and discussed what I had observed and what I had been told would happen in the school. The vice-president told me that he had never said the school would have the type instruction that I actually heard him say it would have. In contrast to the picture he painted, what I saw was a number so students, all in individual cubicles, with some sleeping, no direct instruction, only a teacher at her desk checking and grading papers as they were completed and turned in, then returning them to a pupil without comment as to the reason some items were not correct. This should make any certified teacher shudder in her/his boots. Also, this school did not give homework and had shorter hours than the surrounding public schools. After the meeting and the denial I withdrew my grandson. He was very happy to return to his public school and passed the graduation test easily there. These stories do not mean that our public schools do not need improving. The truth is many are doing wonderful jobs, but some, primarily our Title I schools, do not meet all of the learning needs of their students and this is what my book is about. This is, also, why our country’s test scores are lower than most comparably industrilized countries. We are even listed down with third world countries on some tests–and why–because we are not educating our students from poor families. Do not tell me that their parents should be responsible, for many of these students do not live with parents, perhaps with only one parent who is on drugs or with an overworked grandmother trying to care for five grandchildren. We are responsible for children from generations of uneducated parents and if we do not put a stop to trying to make public education a one-stop shop sized for middle class America and look seriously at what must be done in all of our Title I schools and make those changes very, very soon we will find our counry with a majority of its people educated inadequately and not able to hold down jobs of the future. That, my friends, is when this county that began so proudly and held out hope to so many will begin to slowly wind down the drain in so many important ways. Sincerely, Mary Anderson Hill, 281 Fontaine Road, Mableton, GA, 770-944-6250, maryhbahill@bellsouth.net
Review of Education Issues for May 21- 26, 2012 | Capitol View Neighborhood Association
May 27th, 2012
7:58 pm
[...] http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/05/22/the-bait-and-switch-tactic-in-georgia-education-deb... [...]