The bait-and-switch tactic driving Georgia’s education debate
The school-choice and voucher movement has long tried to sell itself to the public as a public-spirited crusade to allow low-income, often minority and inner-city students to escape bad public schools.
However, critics of the movement have long suspected that it was something else entirely. They have argued that the movement was actually an ill-disguised scam to divert public taxpayer money to private schools that serve a middle-class clientele, with the plight of poor students being used as a cynical cover.
Sadly, there is overwhelming evidence that in Georgia, the second interpretation is the correct interpretation.
The biggest success of the school-choice movement in Georgia came in 2008, when the state Legislature passed a “scholarship program” supposedly intended to help lower-income students attend private schools. Under the law, individuals and corporations who donate to a “student scholarship organization” can receive a dollar-for-dollar credit against their state taxes. In other words, if you donate $2,000 to a SSO, you can deduct $2,000 directly from your Georgia tax bill.
The SSO is then supposed to use those contributions to help defray tuition for low-income students. But in most cases, that’s not how it works. Instead, affluent families and relatives of private-school students are donating money under the guise that it will be used for “scholarships,” and are getting a dollar-for-dollar tax reduction on that donation. They then collect the scholarship that they funded in the form of lower tuition. It operates as a direct taxpayer subsidy of private schools.
For example, today’s New York Times reports on how the Georgia law was explained to parents attending a meeting last year at Gwinnett Christian Academy:
“A very small percentage of that money will be set aside for a needs-based scholarship fund,” Wyatt Bozeman, an administrator at the school near Atlanta, said during an informational session. “The rest of the money will be channeled to the family that raised it.”
A handout circulated at the meeting instructed families to donate, qualify for a tax credit and then apply for a scholarship for their own children, many of whom were already attending the school.
“If a student has friends, relatives or even corporations that pay Georgia income tax, all of those people can make a donation to that child’s school,” added an official with a scholarship group working with the school.
The exchange at Gwinnett Christian Academy, a recording of which was obtained by The New York Times, is just one example of how scholarship programs have been twisted to benefit private schools at the expense of the neediest children….
Most of the private schools are religious. Nearly a quarter of the participating schools in Georgia require families to make a profession of religious faith, according to their Web sites. Many of those schools adhere to a fundamentalist brand of Christianity. A commonly used sixth-grade science text retells the creation story contained in Genesis, omitting any other explanation. An economics book used in some high schools holds that the Antichrist — a world ruler predicted in the New Testament — will one day control what is bought and sold.
Is this an example of a well-intended law that has unfortunately gone awry? No, it is not. Despite what they have claimed publicly, it is a law that is working precisely as its supporters intended. Furthermore, in funneling state tax dollars to private and often religious-based institutions, it is in violation of the Georgia constitution, which states that “no money shall ever be taken from the public treasury, directly or indirectly, in aid of any church, sect, cult, or religious denomination or of any sectarian institution.”
The charge that the law is being used precisely as intended may seem harsh, but the comparison with a similar program in neighboring Florida is telling. In Florida, only students from families that are at or below 185 percent of the poverty line may receive scholarships. Georgia law contains no income limit on recipients.
Florida law requires that private schools receiving significant tax-derived scholarship money report the performance of its students on standardized tests. Georgia law has no such requirement, and there is no accountability for the education that state tax dollars are providing.
Florida also requires that private schools benefiting from such programs release demographic information about students receiving the scholarships. Georgia schools are not required to collect or report such data.
These and other problems with the Georgia law are laid out in a well-researched, comprehensive report by the Atlanta-based Southern Education Foundation. Initially, the SEF was intrigued by the new law, which seemed to mesh nicely with its own mission of supporting “creative solutions to ensure fairness and excellence in education for low-income students from preschool through higher education.”
However, as SEF officials looked more closely at the law and how it operates, they discovered that it was not working at all as its proponents had claimed:
“(The program) lacks transparency regarding contributors, beneficiaries, and the criteria by which scholarships are awarded or even the size and number of scholarships awarded. Nor do the schools involved appear to be subject to any accountability regarding the academic standards in force or academic outcomes of their students. There are no income limits for eligibility and, in the absence of a mandate to report demographic information on participating students, it is difficult to see how the program is meeting its stated policy objective of increasing the affordability of private schools for low income families.”
In fact, rather than serve as a lifeline for poor minority students seeking to escape bad public schools, the SEF report found that “it appears from available sources that the Georgia tax credit scholarships have done little more than support white students to attend schools that already have extreme racial isolation.”
The lack of accountability consciously built into the bill has had other consequences as well. For example, the AJC reported earlier this year that three people running a private scholarship fund in Cumming are being paid $175,600 each to administer the money flowing through that supposedly charitable organization. Those salaries are in effect being paid with taxpayers’ money that is flowing through those organizations with little or no state oversight, and administrators at other poorly regulated SSOs are also collecting six-figure incomes.
Information about the salaries was obtained through federal tax records, not through state data. In fact, state legislators have made it a criminal offense for anyone to release a whole range of financial and tax data regarding the state scholarship program, the organizations that administer them or the schools that receive the money.
The cynicism and deception involved in passing and implementing the Georgia scholarship program is impressive. It also serves as a warning sign regarding a proposed constitutional amendment that will go before the voters in November that would strip local school districts of the power to control the creation of charter schools.
The proposed amendment is being pushed by the same groups and politicians who pushed the scholarship legislation, using similar arguments about trying to help those trapped in underperforming schools. Their track record suggests that their concern is insincere, and that their larger goal is to undermine public education by diverting public dollars to finance schools pursuing a private agenda.
– Jay Bookman
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488 comments Add your comment
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:16 pm
LOL Becky, you are funny. There AREN’T “PTA meetings.” And I am very comfortable with our circle of friends. And while I don’t live in a trailer or a trailer park, I would gladly do so if that were the sacrifice it took to keep my daughter at Woodward.
You see dear, you can not touch me. You can not hurt me. I am too secure in who and what I am. You are a sad little person, bless your heart, sitting behind a computer screen who has been called out as being wrong by virtually everyone here who has commented.
My crime? LOL I agreed with you yet you misread it.
You have a wonderful evening dear, bless your poor little heart…………
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
3:16 pm
ir(rational)
While I didn’t appreciate the assertions and conclusions you seem to making yesterday based on my post, I’m good.
I’ve stuck my foot in my mouth several times on this blog
Apology accepted. It is all good.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
3:16 pm
NC pastor auditioning for westboro baptist in Kansas. Now thass funny!
Jimmy62
May 22nd, 2012
3:17 pm
We know one thing- No matter what Jay will do everything he can to make sure that people are relieved of the burden of choice, and that poor people cannot get a good education. He will fight to keep poor people ignorant and stuck in bad schools, he will fight to make sure bad teachers keep teaching, he will fight to make sure unions control schools, he will fight to keep the poor poor!
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
3:17 pm
“The other side of the coin is when Teachers cheat to make the public school look good on the achievement test – – – the poor students and the middle class students are both cheated.”
That could even be a problem in private schools but since they are not required to report comparable test results for comparison, how can we ever know.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
3:18 pm
Bro – Silly old people.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
3:18 pm
Peadawg
Reid’s a jackass for saying that. That mentality predates the Tea Party, so he’s wrong in stating that they are the cause. They are merely the result of grinding that ideology into the brains of people for the last 30 plus years.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
3:19 pm
TBS – I’ll blame my intemperance on my youth.
Mick
May 22nd, 2012
3:19 pm
**sure unions control schools**
As if….you are a walking right wing cliche misinformed dupe…
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
3:20 pm
Fred-uh huh. Keep living in your dream world and stick that up your fat a$$. My my that does feel good coming down to your level for just a bit. Night nite little man.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
3:21 pm
Bro
While I probably agree with Reid on a number of things, I really do not think he is a good leader. He does and says something at times that just baffle the mind.
Dems in Senate picked wrong man in my opinion.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:22 pm
(ir)Rational: I thought you were older than that lol.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
3:22 pm
ARMW — Thanks much for the detailed explanation.
(ir)Rational — “JHM – So that makes me what?”
Schoolboy.
Thomas heyward Jr.
May 22nd, 2012
3:22 pm
Sarah Gee
May 22nd, 2012
3:12 pm
“Poor Jay. He can longer defend the idefensible so he attacks motives rather than the issues. It seems the democrats need a murky conspricy to keep their anger boiling. Jay has always been better at that than he has been dealing with real issues. More and more the left strikes me as though they are a man needing viagra to get er done. Without anger, there is not much left of progressivism in America.”
.
That’s a good one Ms. Sarah Gee.
.
The proggies can’t be anti-war or pro-civil liberties anymore, thanks to Barry.
They gotta moan about something.
Georgia Needs Ethics Reform
May 22nd, 2012
3:23 pm
Without ethics, this state continues to dupe its citizens. Vote NO for the TSPLOST and Charter School Admendment.
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
3:23 pm
he will fight to keep the poor poor!
yeppers, Jay’s evil like that.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
3:24 pm
Jimmy62 — “We know one thing- No matter what Jay will do everything he can to make sure that people are relieved of the burden of choice, and that poor people cannot get a good education.”
Your impersonation of Dave R is right on target.
It has to be true.
May 22nd, 2012
3:24 pm
Becky has got to be related to Granny Godzilla.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
3:24 pm
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
2:50 pm
That Black Guy,
Is it written in any scriptures that one should base one’s giving on what one expects to receive.
______________________________________________________________________
I don’t think so.
But that still does not mean anyone other than God can determine who is a “true Christian” and who is not.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
3:25 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
2:52 pm
“So that sleaze bucket Paterno’s widow to receive 14 million from that loser’s pension. You just can’t make this stuff up.”
Becky,
That’s a pretty judgemental call there ma’am. At the time Joe Pa passed on what he was told to his 2 bosses the AD and the school president. He felt that was enough at the time. Could he have done more? Absolutely and his failure to have gone the extra mile merited his dismissal.
But the man did a lot of good in his lifetime. He gave very generously- millions of millions of dollars to scholarship funds and the school’s general fund. He molded countless young men. One lapse in judgment does not cancel out an entire lifetime of shaping and effecting hundreds if not thousands of young lives in a positive fashion. I hope will take this into account and reconsider your rather harsh characterization of the man.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
3:25 pm
Fred – Nah, I’m a good dozen years behind Bro.
JHM – That’s actually true. I’m starting grad school in the fall.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:26 pm
KAM: It’s a shame you are up in N. Carolina (I think). I was talking to some buddies and trying to schedule (find) some places to watch the Olympic soccer matches. I’m pretty pumped up. While it’s always fun to watch, it’s more fun to watch with a group. I was surprised during the World Cup when I was watching because of the diversity of the fans that showed up where we were. I knew Atlanta touts itself as an “international” city, but I never really saw it so much as when the World Cup was on.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
3:26 pm
Becky
I think you need to let it go.
Looks like another blog TKO…………….
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 22nd, 2012
3:26 pm
Bayern had 43 shots and only one found the back of the net (obviously not including PKs).
That’s a pretty amazing stat. While it was a must win (in order to remain in the UCL) for The Blue Lions, it seemed to me that Bayern was playing with a reckless desperation. Many of those 43 shots were way off frame (”High, wide and not very ‘andsome” as Tommy Smythe would say) and ill advised. And Muller’s header — straight into the ground — brilliant and virtually unstoppable.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
3:26 pm
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
3:26 pm
New Bumper Sticker:
Welcome to Georgia—–Less Public Education/More Prisons—We Love our kids!
That should really bring in more new businesses and make this a desirable place to raise children.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
3:27 pm
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
2:33 pm
that black guy, they both suck,
I think that hatemonger just ended his career as a pastor. – Not so sure about that. Pastors, like politicians, know their audience.
And I also think he’s probably gay. – On this we agree.
JohnnyReb
May 22nd, 2012
3:27 pm
All the Moonbats who support trickle up poverty probably think it’s” fair” for parents to pay school taxes when their kid does not go to a public school in that city/county? It’s not fair. And it’s the root cause of this ridiculous mess, which I do not support but understand.
Matti
May 22nd, 2012
3:27 pm
AngryRedMarsWoman,
It makes sense for plugged-in students to access content online. I remember watching my third grader tip over from the weight of the bookbag. “Goodness! How are you supposed to outrun the neighborhood perverts with 60 pounds of books strapped to your body?” But economically disadvantaged children whose parents can’t, won’t, or simply don’t provide them with technology still need to be educated. They need MORE, not less, in order to avoid the trappings of ignorance and poverty, glean some job skills, and become middle-class working stiffs who support the rich and poor (in varying degrees) in this nation.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:28 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
3:20 pm
Fred-uh huh. Keep living in your dream world and stick that up your fat a$$. My my that does feel good coming down to your level for just a bit. Night nite little man.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Oh I’m so crushed lol. But I’m confused? A while ago I was a biog man but now I’m a little man? I’m not sure I can figure out what I am unless you guide me so which is it?
You so funny Becky. And I STILL haven’t called you a name lol.
GFY
May 22nd, 2012
3:28 pm
I make no apologies for contributing to my child’s education and will give them every legal advantage I can. If you do not do the same for your child you are a pathetic parent. Curious to know how many posters on this blog actually have a dog (children) in this fight? I am fairly certain the author does not.
Doggone/GA
May 22nd, 2012
3:28 pm
“Do you base your decision on the answer to that one or the question that I posed. If no, then why do we need the tax break.”
If having the tax break is the difference between thousands being donated and millions being donated, then that’s why we need it.
Keep up the fight Georgia....
May 22nd, 2012
3:29 pm
…and register to vote…and VOTE….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP6Mcvgdrtg&feature=related
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
3:30 pm
Fred-you already said you were fat now I am just talking about your naughty bits. See-big and little. hahahhahahahahahhahahhaha
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:30 pm
It has to be true.
May 22nd, 2012
3:24 pm
Becky has got to be related to Granny Godzilla.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Oh hell no. Granny Godzilla is lucid, funny, makes sense, and has a sense of humor. I LIKE Granny lol. I feel sorry for poor little Becky bless her heart.
Mighty Righty
May 22nd, 2012
3:30 pm
I have to agree with Jay on this one. I hate it when that happens.
Recon 0311 2533
May 22nd, 2012
3:31 pm
Looks like this thread topic has more than run its course. It’s degenerated into mostly just verbal warfare between Fred and Becky.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
3:31 pm
JohnnyReb — “All the Moonbats who support trickle up poverty probably think it’s” fair” for parents to pay school taxes when their kid does not go to a public school in that city/county? It’s not fair. And it’s the root cause of this ridiculous mess, which I do not support but understand.”
If you don’t want to pay your taxes, you can always pull a Saverin and GTFO.
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
3:32 pm
Could you guys backing a privatized/pay-what-ya-like kinda deal to fund schooling, kindly draw up a list of our industrialized international competitors that fund their educational systems that way?
I’d sure like to see how that’d work in actual practice.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
3:34 pm
(ir)Rational
I’m looking forward to joining their ranks though. I plan to be an ornery, crusty old bastich!!!
—————————
No matter what Jay will do everything he can to make sure that people are relieved of the burden of choice, and that poor people cannot get a good education.
IF, and that’s a big if, that were the case of the Georgia program, you might have a decent jab at Jay. However, there’s these things called facts that kinda stand in your way. Had you bothered to read the piece that Jay linked to, you would have found this little nugget here:
In Georgia, the scholarship program was criticized for widespread abuses in a report last year by the Southern Education Foundation, a nonprofit group based in Atlanta that works to improve education.
State Representative Earl Ehrhart, a Republican who helped write the Georgia law, called that report “sophistry” and said that any abuses in the program were anomalies. “I can’t tell you about the difference it makes in the lives of these kids,” Mr. Ehrhart said.
The report found that from 2007, the year before the program was enacted, through 2009, private school enrollment increased by only one-third of one percent in the metropolitan counties that included most of the private schools in the scholarship program.
The logical conclusion was that most of the students receiving the scholarships had not come from public schools.
“The law was passed under a certain promise,” said Steve Suitts, vice president of the foundation. “There is no evidence it’s going to those purposes. The kids who were supposed to benefit are not benefiting.”
There’s even a link to that report, if you would like to see things for yourself. However, given that you didn’t even check Jay’s source material, I seriously doubt you’d bother to do the leg work to actually see whether any of this is verified by concrete evidence.
If you want to see the report, here’s the link.:
http://www.southerneducation.org/content/pdf/A_Failed_Experiment_Georgias_Tax_Credit.pdf
You’ll probably love pages 14-18, which deals with Jay’s post. There’s this part that’s really interesting….
Several SSOs and many private schools have decided that the law requires only that a student enroll—not actually attend—a public school to be eligible for a scholarship. This practice became evident In August 2009 when the Atlanta Journal‐Constitution (AJC) reported that parents and students attending private schools were showing up at public schools “to fill out paperwork to enroll their kids in public schools solely to qualify” for the tax‐funded scholarships—“with no intention of actually attending classes in the public school.”8 The news story did not determine how widespread the practice had become but identified three school districts reporting the local practice by parents. The newspaper also found officials at two private schools who admitted that some of their students were using the state law’s “loophole” to receive tax‐funded scholarships.
State Rep. Earl Ehrhart, one of the law’s sponsors, told an AJC reporter that he thought it was legal for parents to use this “loophole” but described use of it as “an anomaly. There is no conspiracy there.” In December 2009, however, at a meeting sponsored by the Georgia Student Scholarship Organization (GASSO), State Rep. David Casas, another sponsor of HB 1133, told parents how Killian Hill Christian School in Gwinnett County had received $85,000 in SSO scholarships to help keep students in the private school—not to help new students transfer from public schools.9
In addition, in a videotape of the same meeting that has since been used at other GASSO meetings, Rep. Casas informs private school parents that as a sponsor of the law he deliberately specified “enroll” instead of “attend” in HB 1133 in order to ensure that tax credit subsidies would support students already in private schools. Rep. Casas states:
Some people felt a little bit weird about that; felt it was a little
dishonest that they would take their child, enroll them in a public
school and not have them actually attend, but all of a sudden they
actually qualify for a scholarship. I’m telling you, we deliberately put
the wording in there for that.10
Rep. Casas’ taped assertion is an admission of a deliberate deception on the part of a public official and an overt contradiction of his own public statements made while seeking support for the legislation in 2008. On his own website on March 4, 2008, Rep. Casas issued a press statement saying that the “Georgia House is considering legislation to permit tax credits worth up to $50 million annually to fund scholarships for students to transfer from public schools to private schools. It would help parents who can’t afford private education, such as those struggling in Clayton, DeKalb, and other counties who want to leave underperforming public schools” (emphasis added; see Appendix 3 for documentation).
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
3:35 pm
I’m telling you, we deliberately put the wording in there for that
muh thuh fukkuh…
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
3:36 pm
Kam – Bayern just wasn’t playing to their usual standards. I love watching them play. It is completely different from watching the English teams, as they’re typically so fast and aggressive. I always compare it to watching the Pac 10 vs watching the SEC (with the EPL being more like the SEC). One is all about scoring, the other is all about defense with some teams that can really run up the score if they so choose.
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
3:36 pm
But that still does not mean anyone other than God can determine who is a “true Christian” and who is not.
You might want to consider spreading that word amongst the many pastors out there condemning gays, lesbians, etc. Whatever happened to that casting the first stone thingie or do they think it only applies to their flock and only when they tell them it applies. Anyway, I think I have also heard that a “true Christian” is one that believes in Christ and one that believes in Christ knows that Christ is here to forgive all who accept him as their savior. He did not put any other conditionals on that which means the gay and murderer, etc., can all be forgiven. Last time I checked, that’s all that is required.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
3:36 pm
“Oh I’m so crushed lol. But I’m confused? A while ago I was a biog man but now I’m a little man? I’m not sure I can figure out what I am unless you guide me so which is it?”
Fred,
I think you’re still a fat ass by your own admission.
JamVet
May 22nd, 2012
3:36 pm
President Obama, through the Joining Forces Initiative, will be giving free annual passes to all of our National Parks and public lands to all active-duty military and their families. Now, over 2000 sites will be available for our troops and their families to visit at no charge.
It might seem just like a nice gesture to offer the free pass, but it really is more. It’s an understanding by the President, as well as the First Lady and Jill Biden (who head up the initiative), of the importance of public lands to those who served. This is an issue I’ve been personally working on for over a year, now.
Stand with me today and make your voice heard by submitting a letter to the editor in your state thanking the President for his commitment to military families.
But I suggest you hurry, before the anti-environment, “corporations are people too, my friend” gang slashes, burns, drills, poisons and destroys every acre of public land that they can…
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
May 22nd, 2012
3:36 pm
16 years ago, just a blip in time, we were the jewel of the new south,
hosting the world’s olympics, & the G8.
Now we have comedians saying stuff like “Deliverance is a documentary”
Congratulations, Georgia Republicans. no, really.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:38 pm
JohnnyReb
May 22nd, 2012
3:27 pm
All the Moonbats who support trickle up poverty probably think it’s” fair” for parents to pay school taxes when their kid does not go to a public school in that city/county? It’s not fair. And it’s the root cause of this ridiculous mess, which I do not support but understand.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
LOL “Trickle up poverty?” The silly phrases your puppet masters get you to say. That one is as funny as “job creators.”
But as a parent with a child who is in private school, I say not only yes but HELL YES it is “fair” for me to pay my damn property taxes like every other damn American AND pay FOR MY OWN choice to send my daughter to private school.
Educating our children is a NATIONAL responsibility. How stupid are you to think it’s not? Regardless of whether or not one has children paying for education benefits us all as a society AND a Country. Only the grossly stupid would think otherwise.
WOW JohnnyReb, I don’t know where you are trying to go with this but just damn. I have disagreed with you in the past, but I’ve never doubted your intelligence before. Please don’t make me start now. This isn’t a “left or right” issue. It’s a damned common sense issue that should be evident to everyone.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 22nd, 2012
3:38 pm
…he will fight to make sure unions control schools…
Geez, not this crap again.
The teachers in Ga. aren’t unionized in the sense that you are making it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fred
There’s a number of places up here in the hills that have color TeeVees and a couple even have DirecTV, it’s how I could catch some of the Chelsea matches during knock-out stage since Fox Soccer Channel seemed to have an exclusive on the UCL, but I catch your meaning, there’s not a lot of soccer fans up here and I was generally watching the game alone. I don’t mind, I was glad the final was on a station that I could watch alone, I’m afraid I got a bit vocal during that game.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
3:39 pm
that black guy,
That NC preacher- He kinda looks like Larry Craig. Who knows? They may be twins separated at birth.
G Mare 71( got the living' the red state BLUES!)
May 22nd, 2012
3:39 pm
Peadog, AMEN!!!
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 22nd, 2012
3:40 pm
@JohnnyReb 3:27pm. I pay a buttload of taxes for a lot of things that I do not use directly…and by that I mean nearly 40% last year between state, federal and social security. While I do believe that parents should have some skin in the game in addition to the property taxes they pay, I think that the general citizenry should provide the base for a public education system inasmuch as an educated population does generally benefit all of us. My taxes pay for roads I will never drive on. My taxes pay for police and fire to make my community safe, but I hope that I never have to call on them to help me personally. I pay for bombs and bullets…and the brave men/women who use them on my behalf. I pay taxes that help people who are unable to help themselves. I also pay taxes so other taxpayers can pay less by deducting their mortgage interest and charitable contributions along with their childcare and medical expenses and so that seniors in my county do not have to pay school taxes regardless of their income and even if they have grandchildren in their home attending the local public schools……oh, yeah, my precious tax dollars do all of that and more whether I like it or not….so, you know, just write the check and be happy you live in the greatest nation on earth, I know I am and I am thankful for it every day.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
3:41 pm
St. Simons – Deliverance most definitely isn’t a documentary, but the book was written based off the author’s experiences. At least from what I’ve heard. I don’t always believe what my dad tells me.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:42 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
3:30 pm
Fred-you already said you were fat now I am just talking about your naughty bits. See-big and little. hahahhahahahahahhahahhaha
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Oh look. Becky made a joke. And I said earlier she didn’t have a sense of humor. Got that one wrong didn’t I lol?
That was funny Becky. Golf clap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmjHT5GpAYQ
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
3:44 pm
Recon 0311 2533
May 22nd, 2012
3:31 pm
Looks like this thread topic has more than run its course. It’s degenerated into mostly just verbal warfare between Fred and Becky.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Figures my favorite stalker would hone inon that. Hey Del, here’s a good chance for you to get some licks in. You have a tag team partner now……..
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
May 22nd, 2012
3:44 pm
Interesting…
http://www.thenation.com/blog/167999/its-official-watching-fox-makes-you-stupider?rel=emailNation
JamVet
May 22nd, 2012
3:45 pm
As for the morons who contend that labor unions have are evil, I would recommend the foolowing legislation.
Remove every last benefit that the right wing parasites now enjoy.
Weekends off.
Paid vacation.
Paid sick days.
Worker safety regulations.
Paid health benefits.
And on and on and on and on.
THEN let them piss on the people who got them those benefits.
I’d personally love to see Reb and the rest of these Republimooches pony up for their own bennies for once in their lives.
Hell, the lazy jerkoffs even take off Labor Day!
Aquagirl
May 22nd, 2012
3:46 pm
have a hard time believing that Aquagirl believes that the people of this state would find this pastor’s statements to be a social norm.
I’m more acquainted with the backwaters, not the college towns. The idea of bashing queers for Jesus is pretty much a social norm in places like Pembroke…..especially in the churches.
To be accurate, that pastor wasn’t actually advocating outright killing of gay people, just herding them into enclosures like animals and leaving them there. I’d say that’s a perfectly acceptable viewpoint to many folks outside the big cities.
Hank Ezell
May 22nd, 2012
3:46 pm
Thanks,Jay
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
3:46 pm
Persian
rugsSHEETZ.TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
3:47 pm
If having the tax break is the difference between thousands being donated and millions being donated, then that’s why we need it.
Is that really what’s happening though given that the tax break, in some cases at least, means that less goes to things paid for by taxes such as food for the starving, etc., while more goes to building huge monuments to worship in. So, I would ask first if more money is truly being donated to help people truly in need and second, why do “charitable” people need to be bribed to give to charity?
JohnnyReb
May 22nd, 2012
3:48 pm
Fred – I wrote not one word about me paying school taxes with no children in school. That’s for another day. What I did write is, it’s not fair for parents with kids in school to pay school taxes (within their property taxes) when they have their kid in private school. To do so is another form of welfare and government social engineering. Both absolute failures.
JamVet
May 22nd, 2012
3:49 pm
The Christian right in this country drags down our academic standards terribly.
Out of the 32 industrialized nations on this planet, ONLY Turkey has a lower percentage of people who believe in evolution!!!
Brought to you by the very same nutjobs that swear anthropogenic climate change is a vast left wing conspiracy designed to destroy the United States.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
3:49 pm
ARMW @ 3:40
If we were anywhere nearby, I’d hug you dearly for that one. Just as long as no jealous guy’s sittin’ next to you ready to open up a can of whoopass.
Recon 0311 2533
May 22nd, 2012
3:49 pm
“Figures my favorite stalker would hone inon that. Hey Del, here’s a good chance for you to get some licks in. You have a tag team partner now……..”
Fred, now you know that I can chase you into hiding out until you’re sure I’m off the blog but it does look like you can hold your own against Becky. smiley face.
JohnnyReb
May 22nd, 2012
3:51 pm
JamVet – I’m self employed and instead of being a moocher support more than my “fair” share of the downtrodden. All that time off you reference must be for government workers.
Mary Elizabeth
May 22nd, 2012
3:52 pm
Fred, 3:38 pm
“But as a parent with a child who is in private school, I say not only yes but HELL YES it is ‘fair’ for me to pay my damn property taxes like every other damn American AND pay FOR MY OWN choice to send my daughter to private school.
Educating our children is a NATIONAL responsibility. . . .Regardless of whether or not one has children paying for education benefits us all as a society AND a Country.”
==========================================
Your expansive heart and independent spirit is what I like about you, Fred. What you say is true. I have no child in school, now, and I gladly pay property taxes to support public education for ALL of Georgia’s children. But, I do not want my public tax dollars going to support the profit margins of private schools. Pulbic schools are not profit based. They are designed to serve the public’s interest and the public’s welfare.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
3:52 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
3:12 pm
That Black Guy-what on earth are you talking about political affiliations?
_____________________________________________________________________________
Becky, Peter said:
Peter
May 22nd, 2012
1:28 pm
The religious Republican’s are at it again
_______________________________________________________________________
Peter labled him a repub, the story didn’t say.
He was attempting to smear both religious people and repub in one broad stroke.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
3:57 pm
Mick
May 22nd, 2012
3:03 pm
that black guy
Remember the neil young song, “Old Man”? – Can’t say that I do.
54 and got your abs back, cool.
I’m 45 and still have my 6 pack.
It looks like a keg, but then again, a keg is just SEVERAL 6 packs, right? RIGHT?
Kim Dyson
May 22nd, 2012
3:57 pm
I am the CEO of a Georgia SSO and we had the same criticisms about the program that the article highlights when we first got involved in Georgia but we decided to do something about it.
We fixed the problems by designing our SSO to address those issues head-on.
AAA Scholarship Foundation is different from every other SSO in Georgia in that we:
• Award scholarships directly to families – not schools
• Award scholarships solely to qualifying low-income families
• Empower parents to choose the best school for their child(ren) – scholarships follow the children to each school as long as the family remains eligible
• Award scholarships for a 3-year term because we believe that continuity of the educational setting is important for children to succeed
• Have over 15 years hands-on experience successfully administering tax-credit scholarship programs (Florida and Georgia)
• Have contracted with a nationally-respected 3rd party provider to objectively determine each family’s scholarship qualification
• Have a CPA on-staff to ensure that tax questions are answered correctly and to ensure timely and accurate reporting
We are truly helping those families for whom this program was designed – the low-income and working-class families who otherwise would not be able to afford to send their children to the schools that best meet their learning needs.
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
3:59 pm
Thanks for posting that Kim.
If we could put those standards into law, this program would be much more supportable.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
4:05 pm
JohnnyReb
May 22nd, 2012
3:48 pm
Fred – I wrote not one word about me paying school taxes with no children in school. That’s for another day. What I did write is, it’s not fair for parents with kids in school to pay school taxes (within their property taxes) when they have their kid in private school. To do so is another form of welfare and government social engineering. Both absolute failures.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
JohnnyReb: What you are saying is akin to saying that paying city (or county) taxes for water when you buy bottled water to drink is paying double taxes. No it’s not. The water is there you CHOOSE NOT to drink it.
The schools are there. I choose NOT to send my daughter to them. As such, it’sup to me to bear the burdon of that expense
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
4:07 pm
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia @3:36 pm
You are soooo right. That’s before we tried to compete with being the most backwards against AL and MS. Remind me which party held power then? And all because a bunch of yahoos were mad about a flag. Hell, they didn’t even get back the flag they wanted and we are now paying for their ignorance. Leave it up to the retrograde thinkers now in charge and their loyal followers and the next thing you know we won’t have the busiest airport in the world anymore but a stagecoach hub.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
4:07 pm
Recon 0311 2533
May 22nd, 2012
3:49 pm
“Figures my favorite stalker would hone inon that. Hey Del, here’s a good chance for you to get some licks in. You have a tag team partner now……..”
Fred, now you know that I can chase you into hiding out until you’re sure I’m off the blog but it does look like you can hold your own against Becky. smiley face.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Woot. Good one Del.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
4:15 pm
Kim
Thank you for posting that. That gives me hope that there are still people who really try to help those that need it most.
JohnnyReb
May 22nd, 2012
4:16 pm
JohnnyReb: What you are saying is akin to saying that paying city (or county) taxes for water when you buy bottled water to drink is paying double taxes. No it’s not. The water is there you CHOOSE NOT to drink it.
The schools are there. I choose NOT to send my daughter to them. As such, it’sup to me to bear the burdon of that expense
____________
No Fred – having to pay school taxes when you don’t use the school is but one of a long list of liberties our government has stripped from us in the name of public good.
Being in the bleeding heart group, you of course see nothing wrong with that.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
4:27 pm
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
3:26 pm
Becky
Looks like another blog TKO…………….
Teddy P, is that you?
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
4:33 pm
TBG @ 4:27
I was wondering if someone was going to catch that play on Teddy P
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
4:34 pm
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
3:39 pm
that black guy,
That NC preacher- He kinda looks like Larry Craig. Who knows? They may be twins separated at birth.
____________________________________________________________
Did he have a “wide stance” when he gave that “sermon”?
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
4:40 pm
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
3:49 pm
ARMW @ 3:40
If we were anywhere nearby, I’d hug you dearly for that one. Just as long as no jealous guy’s sittin’ next to you ready to open up a can of whoopass.
__________________________________________________________________________
You could always shine the baldspot in his eyes and blind him.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 22nd, 2012
4:52 pm
Brosephus™ May 22nd, 2012 3:49 pm.
Hug away….my man knows I am true to him.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
5:11 pm
JohnnyReb — “No Fred – having to pay school taxes when you don’t use the school is but one of a long list of liberties our government has stripped from us in the name of public good.”
Cry me a river.
You can certainly do a Saverin and leave if you don’t like it.
saywhat?
May 22nd, 2012
5:33 pm
Gee Johnny Reb- I never invaded Iraq- do my taxes have to pay for that?
Z
May 22nd, 2012
6:02 pm
Who needs enemies when we have Republicans in our Myst. They take from the poor, the middle class, they are devious, deceptive, and not fit for public Office. Vote everyone of these fools out come election time. How dare they fund their children’s private education with my Tax dollars when if the truth be know they are the ones who can afford the private schools the most. If they want their children indoctrinated with Religious lies they can pay for it themselves. Just disgusting but not surprising.
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
May 22nd, 2012
8:45 pm
Jay, our public school system (thanks to the Democrats), just like the US Postal Service, are both headed to the trash heap. They are unable to deliver a usable product at any price, much less an efficient price. Folks that pay all these property taxes, and yet must also pay private school tuition, would like to get something out of the deal.
Who is Fooled by the ‘Bait and Switch?’ –
May 23rd, 2012
6:01 am
[...] I try to avoid regurgitation, so to get the full story, check out both the NY Times article as well as Jay Bookman’s blog post in the AJC. [...]
Mr_B
May 23rd, 2012
6:58 am
” just like the US Postal Service, are both headed to the trash heap. They are unable to deliver a usable product at any price, much less an efficient price. ” Ask UPS of FedEx to deliver a letter from NY to LA for 50 cents. The laughter will deafen you.
Mary Anderson Hill
May 23rd, 2012
11:38 pm
Dear Mr Bookman, Thank you for this column. So much like this is going on in education in our state at this time that it has become doubtful that we will ever (at less not in the near future) educate our children from or near poverty as well as needed. The goal of our legislators for the most part seems to be to either destroy public education or to bring back seregation in another form–or, perhaps, it is just to make money for themselves. I was a long time educator in Cobb County Public Schools both as a teacher and as an administrator. I ended my time as the principal of two Title I schools. While at the last school, a new one I opened–the first new one in a long time in our community–it became the second Georgia School of Excellence in the state which positioned it to become one of the first Georgia public schools to become a public charter school. We did wonders for our children, primarily minority and from backgrounds of need. Now even the term public charter school is being taken over by what are private charter schools and these are the ones being pushed by our legislators. When Bryant became a School of Excellence what was granted us was the ability to request changes in the operation of our school so that it could be operated, not as were all others in the county, but operated in a manner that met the real needs of our particular school population. I believe that is still what a real public charter school is in Georgia. We were a part of our school system, unlike private charter schools. We recieved the same funds as always including our merited federal Title I funds, but we could use these funds to best meet our school needs, not as set up by the county for all schools. We made many changes that added greatly to our school, including adding a four year old before Governor Miller made this possible. I have written a book to tell about this, to tell a manner in which Title I schools need to operate in our nation to actually meet the needs of children who begin school already several years behind the children from middle and higher income homes. This is a reality that cannot be argued for I have taught and been an administrator in all of these types of schools and I, like others with this experience, have witnessed this. Now many private charter schools present themselves as public because they draw from public schools–and recieve public schools money (taken away from the true public schools). Many of these schools are poorer, often far poore in the education they offer than our counties’ public schools, but some how this message does not get out generally. I have experienced this also. Some community members, young mothers, met with me and another experienced retired principal in our area. (I moved from east Cobb to south Cobb, so the Title I area in Cobb is my home.) As with most other areas of our country the schools are not as wonderful here as in the east or west part of the county.) These mothers mentioned earlier wanted to start an International Bacelaurete elementary/middle school here to compliment the IB magnet high school program already in our part of the county. This is a very challenging program. They had already talked with an operator of one of the large private charter school companies and had been sold a wonderful bill of goods. We told them that they should approach the county and try to develop these schools through already exsisting public schools in our area, but they were convinced that the charter group would keep all of their promises, so went ahead organizing the school with them. This is the same school that our local school board member is being critisized for voting to close this year while is supporting opening another type school with a far better reputation. This school that was closed far deserved to be. I had a granddaughter who moved to the school its first year of operation and I volunteered there. It was a total disaster. My grandchild and all of the children of the founding members dropped out. The group kept none of their original promises, including not to low-ball teacher and administrator pay–really lower it. I can tell you one horror story after another. One point is that test scores have been consistently low over the five years of their contract. It was time to close this school. Later when the state brought in Charter schools for children with learning disabilities one was opened in our general locality. I have another grandchild with learning disabilities. He was having a rough year, so I talked with the owner’s son–a vice president of the group and he told me wonderful tales, so like the young mothers, I was taken in. At the school’s opening Eric Johnson, the Georgia legislator from Savanah, was present. As things progressed I realized that promises here too were not being kept. I even learned that some parents were encouraged to enroll their child because he/she would not have to take a graduation test. It seemed that very little instruction and a lot of busy work was going on, so I met with the principal and asked to do an evaluation in my grandson’s class. As a Cobb principal I had been trained in several methods of evaluation of classrooms and had done it consistantly as a part of my job, so he agreed and I proceeded. The evaluation that I did consisted of writing down everything I observed and much of what was said minute by minute for the majority of the day. I came home, typed it up, made copies, and asked to meet with the principal and the teacher. On the designed day I was surprised to find the system vice-president from Florida present. Luckily, I had extra copies of my observation. I passed them out and discussed what I had observed and what I had been told would happen in the school. The vice-president told me that he had never said the school would have the type instruction that I actually heard him say it would have. In contrast to the picture he painted, what I saw was a number so students, all in individual cubicles, with some sleeping, no direct instruction, only a teacher at her desk checking and grading papers as they were completed and turned in, then returning them to a pupil without comment as to the reason some items were not correct. This should make any certified teacher shudder in her/his boots. Also, this school did not give homework and had shorter hours than the surrounding public schools. After the meeting and the denial I withdrew my grandson. He was very happy to return to his public school and passed the graduation test easily there. These stories do not mean that our public schools do not need improving. The truth is many are doing wonderful jobs, but some, primarily our Title I schools, do not meet all of the learning needs of their students and this is what my book is about. This is, also, why our country’s test scores are lower than most comparably industrilized countries. We are even listed down with third world countries on some tests–and why–because we are not educating our students from poor families. Do not tell me that their parents should be responsible, for many of these students do not live with parents, perhaps with only one parent who is on drugs or with an overworked grandmother trying to care for five grandchildren. We are responsible for children from generations of uneducated parents and if we do not put a stop to trying to make public education a one-stop shop sized for middle class America and look seriously at what must be done in all of our Title I schools and make those changes very, very soon we will find our counry with a majority of its people educated inadequately and not able to hold down jobs of the future. That, my friends, is when this county that began so proudly and held out hope to so many will begin to slowly wind down the drain in so many important ways. Sincerely, Mary Anderson Hill, 281 Fontaine Road, Mableton, GA, 770-944-6250, maryhbahill@bellsouth.net
Review of Education Issues for May 21- 26, 2012 | Capitol View Neighborhood Association
May 27th, 2012
7:58 pm
[...] http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/05/22/the-bait-and-switch-tactic-in-georgia-education-deb... [...]