The bait-and-switch tactic driving Georgia’s education debate
The school-choice and voucher movement has long tried to sell itself to the public as a public-spirited crusade to allow low-income, often minority and inner-city students to escape bad public schools.
However, critics of the movement have long suspected that it was something else entirely. They have argued that the movement was actually an ill-disguised scam to divert public taxpayer money to private schools that serve a middle-class clientele, with the plight of poor students being used as a cynical cover.
Sadly, there is overwhelming evidence that in Georgia, the second interpretation is the correct interpretation.
The biggest success of the school-choice movement in Georgia came in 2008, when the state Legislature passed a “scholarship program” supposedly intended to help lower-income students attend private schools. Under the law, individuals and corporations who donate to a “student scholarship organization” can receive a dollar-for-dollar credit against their state taxes. In other words, if you donate $2,000 to a SSO, you can deduct $2,000 directly from your Georgia tax bill.
The SSO is then supposed to use those contributions to help defray tuition for low-income students. But in most cases, that’s not how it works. Instead, affluent families and relatives of private-school students are donating money under the guise that it will be used for “scholarships,” and are getting a dollar-for-dollar tax reduction on that donation. They then collect the scholarship that they funded in the form of lower tuition. It operates as a direct taxpayer subsidy of private schools.
For example, today’s New York Times reports on how the Georgia law was explained to parents attending a meeting last year at Gwinnett Christian Academy:
“A very small percentage of that money will be set aside for a needs-based scholarship fund,” Wyatt Bozeman, an administrator at the school near Atlanta, said during an informational session. “The rest of the money will be channeled to the family that raised it.”
A handout circulated at the meeting instructed families to donate, qualify for a tax credit and then apply for a scholarship for their own children, many of whom were already attending the school.
“If a student has friends, relatives or even corporations that pay Georgia income tax, all of those people can make a donation to that child’s school,” added an official with a scholarship group working with the school.
The exchange at Gwinnett Christian Academy, a recording of which was obtained by The New York Times, is just one example of how scholarship programs have been twisted to benefit private schools at the expense of the neediest children….
Most of the private schools are religious. Nearly a quarter of the participating schools in Georgia require families to make a profession of religious faith, according to their Web sites. Many of those schools adhere to a fundamentalist brand of Christianity. A commonly used sixth-grade science text retells the creation story contained in Genesis, omitting any other explanation. An economics book used in some high schools holds that the Antichrist — a world ruler predicted in the New Testament — will one day control what is bought and sold.
Is this an example of a well-intended law that has unfortunately gone awry? No, it is not. Despite what they have claimed publicly, it is a law that is working precisely as its supporters intended. Furthermore, in funneling state tax dollars to private and often religious-based institutions, it is in violation of the Georgia constitution, which states that “no money shall ever be taken from the public treasury, directly or indirectly, in aid of any church, sect, cult, or religious denomination or of any sectarian institution.”
The charge that the law is being used precisely as intended may seem harsh, but the comparison with a similar program in neighboring Florida is telling. In Florida, only students from families that are at or below 185 percent of the poverty line may receive scholarships. Georgia law contains no income limit on recipients.
Florida law requires that private schools receiving significant tax-derived scholarship money report the performance of its students on standardized tests. Georgia law has no such requirement, and there is no accountability for the education that state tax dollars are providing.
Florida also requires that private schools benefiting from such programs release demographic information about students receiving the scholarships. Georgia schools are not required to collect or report such data.
These and other problems with the Georgia law are laid out in a well-researched, comprehensive report by the Atlanta-based Southern Education Foundation. Initially, the SEF was intrigued by the new law, which seemed to mesh nicely with its own mission of supporting “creative solutions to ensure fairness and excellence in education for low-income students from preschool through higher education.”
However, as SEF officials looked more closely at the law and how it operates, they discovered that it was not working at all as its proponents had claimed:
“(The program) lacks transparency regarding contributors, beneficiaries, and the criteria by which scholarships are awarded or even the size and number of scholarships awarded. Nor do the schools involved appear to be subject to any accountability regarding the academic standards in force or academic outcomes of their students. There are no income limits for eligibility and, in the absence of a mandate to report demographic information on participating students, it is difficult to see how the program is meeting its stated policy objective of increasing the affordability of private schools for low income families.”
In fact, rather than serve as a lifeline for poor minority students seeking to escape bad public schools, the SEF report found that “it appears from available sources that the Georgia tax credit scholarships have done little more than support white students to attend schools that already have extreme racial isolation.”
The lack of accountability consciously built into the bill has had other consequences as well. For example, the AJC reported earlier this year that three people running a private scholarship fund in Cumming are being paid $175,600 each to administer the money flowing through that supposedly charitable organization. Those salaries are in effect being paid with taxpayers’ money that is flowing through those organizations with little or no state oversight, and administrators at other poorly regulated SSOs are also collecting six-figure incomes.
Information about the salaries was obtained through federal tax records, not through state data. In fact, state legislators have made it a criminal offense for anyone to release a whole range of financial and tax data regarding the state scholarship program, the organizations that administer them or the schools that receive the money.
The cynicism and deception involved in passing and implementing the Georgia scholarship program is impressive. It also serves as a warning sign regarding a proposed constitutional amendment that will go before the voters in November that would strip local school districts of the power to control the creation of charter schools.
The proposed amendment is being pushed by the same groups and politicians who pushed the scholarship legislation, using similar arguments about trying to help those trapped in underperforming schools. Their track record suggests that their concern is insincere, and that their larger goal is to undermine public education by diverting public dollars to finance schools pursuing a private agenda.
– Jay Bookman
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488 comments Add your comment
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 22nd, 2012
12:53 pm
Hmmm, I could afford sending my kids to Woodward et al but chose public school because the district is solid and after visiting Woodward, Westminster and Lovett, didn’t feel the atmosphere represented the real world…all the christian schools scare me….
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
12:54 pm
the owner of the two highest grossing Churches franchises qualifies as a “disadvantaged” applicant for space in the new terminal.
Ok, I’ll ask–Who is this person you speak of? And which denominations (franchises?) are involved?
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
12:54 pm
So what’s the problem with parents getting their own tax money back in the form of a tax credit and sending their kids to the school of their choice? Seems to me its about freedom and choice and some people just don’t seem to like that. Education envy card? We’ve got a new card folks.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:54 pm
stevie ray….Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right…here I am…
May 22nd, 2012
12:47 pm
FRED,
Why are you always on a judgmental attack mode? When you start the name calling you are conceding the debate…at least my college professor said so…
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You went to college and STILL have this lack of reading comprehension? Please point out to me an example of name calling.
I’ll wait.
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
12:55 pm
Aside from the last page here, I think this is a topic there is a general consensus on…
I don’t quite know how I feel about that…
Fred, I commend you for your choices, it’s not an easy road to choose and stay on. And it requires a large commitment in quite few different areas to put your child in a private school and keep her there.
Private schools don’t have to deal with “issues” public schools do, and it’s pretty much demanded that you be a part of the equation or you’ll be told things like “we just don’t feel this is the best environment for your child”, (that’s how they kick children out). It’s not all power point presentations, and espresso…
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:56 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:49 pm
I can picture ole Fred sitting out back behind the double wide with the boys bragging about his little angel learning power point at the big expensive school she goes to. What a big man.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And there is Becky, using character assassination because she cannot point out any name calling by me and is just mad as hell because she has been exposed.
Oh and Becky, I’m a FAT man, not big man. Get your insults right bless your heart.
Hypocrisy much?
Jm
May 22nd, 2012
12:56 pm
Paragraphs shouldn’t be solely for children….
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
12:57 pm
stevie ray,
Why do the “Christian” schools scare you? Are there constant knifings, shootings, assaults, etc. going on in these Christians similar to public schools? As for religious indoctrination I know plenty of kids who went to Christian schools. And they are ever bit a secularist or a sinner as me.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:58 pm
I smell a rat. Suddenly Fred’s 2nd grader is now a 5th grader in one year? Really? she skipped 2 years of ole Woodward? Or are you just mis-remembering? Maybe you need remedial math? As for name calling-you are doing just fine. Look back over your post big man.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:59 pm
Thulsa: An opposition to a Christian school isn’t fear any more than an opposition to “the gay lifestyle” makes someone a homophobe.
I wouldn’t send my daughter to 99% of the “Christian” schools around here.
243 more days
May 22nd, 2012
12:59 pm
IMO, this stinks.
I would like to see a listing of who voted for this, and we need to start an e mail campaign to let them know this is not right.
I know they will ignore it if they voted for it, but it is kinda like Senator Reid holding up bills in the US Senate, at least give it a try, don’t be chicken$hit.
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 22nd, 2012
1:00 pm
Thulsa,
I wasn’t brought up in a religious environment so the whole religion thing is something I find difficult to swallow and don’t think religion has done much for anyone excepting creating a calendar and charting the moon…not intending to offend…just my opinion.
A dad
May 22nd, 2012
1:00 pm
After reading the posts on this blog, I am somewhat dumbfounded that so many bloggers complain about the lack of compromise in DC and gov’t. Just about everyone on this blog mirrors what we accuse politicians of doing, i.e., my way or the highway, and your way is stupid.
Man is this country screwed….
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
1:01 pm
Are there constant knifings, shootings, assaults, etc. going on
Bros, if you’re chilly, they’re burnin’ another straw man over here.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:01 pm
“Oh and Becky, I’m a FAT man, not big man. Get your insults right bless your heart.”
Damn if that aint funny. Doomy is rolling over here.
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
1:02 pm
FAT or PHAT???
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 22nd, 2012
1:03 pm
FRED,
“so you went to college and still have issue with reading comprehension” (paraphrase) seems like sophomoric attack by one who has run out of quality commentary. I think I got a pretty good education which you comment on without knowledge…another sign of concession..
Aquagirl
May 22nd, 2012
1:03 pm
So what’s the problem with parents getting their own tax money back in the form of a tax credit and sending their kids to the school of their choice?
Because it’s not THEIR tax money. It’s OUR tax money. I’m not sure why you think people using the services should be the only ones not paying.
Are you going liberal-marxist-communist on us, Doomy?
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
1:03 pm
Finn McCool (The System Isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
May 22nd, 2012
11:24 am
keeping their kids away from the riff raff.
This is what you are paying for in the first place. “Level of education” is the excuse used to justify it. Sounds better than “I don’t want my kid growing up around those people.”
__________________________________________________________________________
Does that apply when the parents are also “those people”?
HDB
May 22nd, 2012
1:03 pm
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:24 pm
You MAY be wrong on that bet…..Gaskins started at Cal-Berkeley in 1968 (public college)…..chances he started in the California public system…..
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
1:03 pm
Doom — “So what’s the problem with parents getting their own tax money back in the form of a tax credit and sending their kids to the school of their choice? Seems to me its about freedom and choice and some people just don’t seem to like that.”
I think that most posters here are fine with parents choosing to send their kids to whatever kind of school they want. The sticking point in the discussion seems to be when there’s a taxpayer subsidy for anything other than public school educations.
skipper
May 22nd, 2012
1:03 pm
Jay, dad-gum your time…..I’m not a liberal, and you are: so why do i like you anyway??????????
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:04 pm
stands for decibels,
Are you suggesting that those public schools are not scarier in terms of physical safety than say those “Christian” schools? And its not a straw argument. Stevie said those Christian schools are scary to him so I’m simply asking what is so scary about them. I doubt you’ll find too many folks who would say that public schools are safer than private Christian schools in terms of physical safety.
Now if Stevie is just engaging in a bit of Christian bashing or private school bashing instead of talking about physical safety then that’s a different story.
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 22nd, 2012
1:05 pm
A DAD,
Right on….it is fun to pick fights with the far left and far right who IMO are the problem as a result of playing into the status quo and supporting all causes of the Clowns and Jokers…I like your style.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 22nd, 2012
1:07 pm
“So what’s the problem with parents getting their own tax money back in the form of a tax credit and sending their kids to the school of their choice?”
And if there was a law that allowed us to do that I would be taking the deduction for the ungodly amount of money I spend for private school tuition. But the legislature did not see fit to do that. Instead we have a program that on its face is supposed to help “needy” kids in bad school districts escape their public schools to private school, but that in practice involves parents of private school students donating money to the “needy children fund” while “enrolling” their own children in the local public school to turn around and “pull the child out” of the public school to attend the private school and be “awarded” a scholarship in the exact amount that the parents donated to the “needy children fund”. Are you with me so far? And we are apparently talking about a tax credit here, not a tax deduction…so the parent who “donates” $2.5k to the “needy children fund” gets that amount off of his taxes and then turns around and gets the donation back to pay for school…free money, anyone? Heck, I would love to get a tax deduction for private school tuition….but there isn’t one, and the backwards way that people are taking one is immoral IMHO….but, hey, people justify much worse behavior all the time, don’t they?
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:07 pm
“The sticking point in the discussion seems to be when there’s a taxpayer subsidy for anything other than public school educations.”
Joe Mama,
Yeah. I get that. I just don’t understand why people would care about the tax subsidy- particularly when the parents themselves are taxpayers. If they are taxpayers why then should they not have the freedom of choice to decide with their rightful tax money where their kids go to school?
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 22nd, 2012
1:08 pm
Thulsa,
Stating my take on religion is not bashing as it works for many just not for me…I do find religion, not unlike unions are fightning for relevancy as reflected by the sharp downward slope of membership over the past 50 or so years. Private schools work for many as well just for my kids, we chose public of which we are both products.
Violence is as violence does…
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:11 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:58 pm
I smell a rat. Suddenly Fred’s 2nd grader is now a 5th grader in one year? Really? she skipped 2 years of ole Woodward? Or are you just mis-remembering? Maybe you need remedial math? As for name calling-you are doing just fine. Look back over your post big man.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There goes Becky with her lack of reading comprehension skills. Are you familiar with a concept called GRAMMAR Becky? It’s the set of structural rules that govern the composition of clauses, phrases, and words in any given natural language.
So in MY post I said, . I(n) the FIRST semester of SECOND GRADE my daughter had to do a research project ……….
Do you see the highlighted word there Becky? HAD? Now grammatically speaking, HAD is what they call the PAST TENSE: a grammatical tense that places an action or situation in the past of the current moment. Did you notice the word PAST there Becky? Let me define past for you since you are really having problems today: of, having existed in, or having occurred during a time previous to the present; bygone.
Are you still with me Becky. Bless your heart, I can explain it TO you but I can’t understand it FOR you. I am however trying to type slow so you can keep up.
So I said she HAD meaning ago, in the past, like when she was in Second grade. Just like you once were in second grade. Your behavior aside that doesn’t mean you are STILL in second grade, just that you ONCE were. Still with me? See she WAS in the second grade. NOW she is in the fourth grade. Next week when her mommy gets her new computer, the school year will be over and she will be considered to be in the FIFTH grade. Understand?
Good.
“As for name calling-you are doing just fine. Look back over your post big man.”
Ah I understand. That’s code for you lied and it’s not there.
Dear Becky, you haven’t done anything but continue to make your self look more foolish with each post. Why don’t you stop already bless your heart. I’m embarrassed for you……….
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
1:12 pm
Are you suggesting that those public schools are not scarier in terms of physical safety than say those “Christian” schools?
I’m suggesting you’re tossing out generalities in hopes someone will take your stinky bait.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:13 pm
stevie ray….Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right…here I am…
May 22nd, 2012
1:03 pm
FRED,
“so you went to college and still have issue with reading comprehension” (paraphrase) seems like sophomoric attack by one who has run out of quality commentary. I think I got a pretty good education which you comment on without knowledge…another sign of concession..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
In other words, you, like Becky, bless your hearts, CAN’T find me calling her names anywhere but lack the intellectual integrity to admit it. I understand. Very few have my moral fiber.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
1:13 pm
Doom — “Yeah. I get that. I just don’t understand why people would care about the tax subsidy- particularly when the parents themselves are taxpayers.”
Well, as I said, that’s kinda the sticking point here.
“If they are taxpayers why then should they not have the freedom of choice to decide with their rightful tax money where their kids go to school?”
Take out the word “tax” from that and I agree with you. If Mom and Dad want to send Junior to private school, I’m out of their way. I’m a strong supporter or and believer in education at all levels.
But by allowing these dollar-for-dollar tax deductions for donating to these “Student Scholarship Organizations,” the system is working as a stealth subsidy for something that — by Georgia law — tax money *can’t legally* be spent on. That was the point of Jay’s piece.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:13 pm
“Because it’s not THEIR tax money. It’s OUR tax money.”- Aquagirl
Well actually its both. But why do you care where someone sends their kids regardless of the tax pot? I don’t have kids but I pay taxes into the system. If a Muslim family wants to take their tax credit that is part of what I pay into as well as what they pay into it and send their kids to a fine Muslim madrassah then what do I care? I don’t. Give people their freedom of choice.
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
1:14 pm
Skipper, it must be my green eyes. That’s what my wife tells me, anyway….
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
1:14 pm
Uh Fred-you are the one looking foolish not I. Anyway-I’m done with you and your bloviating. Please scroll past my posts as I want to rejoin the grown up discussion and not trade barbs with you.
Houston, we've got a problem
May 22nd, 2012
1:15 pm
aqua girl, so you are saying that once funds collected from individuals are in gov’t hands, it doesn’t belong to them, here lies the fundemental problem I have with big gov’t, liberalism, or whatever you want to call it, I don’t believe that any money earned belongs to a collective, that it belongs to an individual, that individual should have a right (w/o it harming others) to do with his wealth as he sees fit. that is why I have issues with progressive tax system, yes you can earn as much as you want, but the gov’t is going to tell you how much you can keep….it seems to me you have no issue with individuals who choose to do nothing to have a slice of they pie they didn’t bake….
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:16 pm
HDB; I never said he didn’t go to public school lol. But since when I researched it I couldn’t find anything earlier than his college, I doubt PJ can (or will even research it lol since he didn’t bother to find the name before he tossed his ill aimed dart).
I was actually hoping that PJ might actually make the effort though and find it since I didn’t feel like researching it further but wanted to know.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:19 pm
Oh and Becky dear? I’m already on record here, on multiple threads, (multiple blogs actually if you count Maureens, Theresa’s Kyles, ect) for being OPPOSED to tax breaks for people on their private school bills. I’m also opposed to vouchers (another way folks try to scam off their private schools bills on the taxpayers).
Basically you have been attacking someone who agrees with your initial posts bless your heart.
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
1:20 pm
Houston – “I don’t believe that any money earned belongs to a collective”
Great, than I expect you to travel on dirt roads, home school your children, not seek assistance when your home is destroyed in a Tornado, Fire or Flood. And, I have to assume, that you will simply waive the police on by when getting your ass stomped by a couple of punks downtown.Do you have a special I.D. card that you use so that we will know that you’re not part of the “collective”?
RB from Gwinnett
May 22nd, 2012
1:20 pm
Becky, why don’t you just copy and paste Fred’s name calling post and prove him wrong? Should be a pretty simple thing to do.
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
1:21 pm
My children are just fine, thanks for asking. All are grown and on their own and doing very well in life. My son is in the USAF serving overseas, my eldest, a daughter is a nurse and my youngest, also a daughter, is a full time college student and also works full time. But don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t speaking on your child intelligence but yours. It’s nice to know that she will be able to help you learn to read street signs and to eat soup while out dribbling. A mind is a terrible thing to waste Fred. Don’t be a fool, go to school. By the way where did Gaskins go to school? I looked and can find no info on his primary education. Must not be too impressive if there is no mention of it.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:22 pm
Joe Mama,
I think that what the article is saying is that in Georgia its actually legal since it doesn’t specify an income limit. And money in fact is set aside for poor kids scholarships- albeit a small amount. Now they certainly aren’t following the spirit of the law. On that I would certainly agree.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:22 pm
RB: You would think so wouldn’t you lol?
Houston, we've got a problem
May 22nd, 2012
1:23 pm
maybe I should clarify my comments some, thanks Butch, in terms of doing something that is truly for the public good, ie fire protection, education, police protection, roads, yes that stuff is a “collective” but taking income from one person and just giving it to another just to make things “fair”, I’m completely against….
besides, I have really good insurance if my house gets hit by a tornado…..I pay for that out of my own pocket, I shouldn’t need public redistribution to help me rebuild…..
saywhat?
May 22nd, 2012
1:24 pm
Fred, BFD about your child using powerpoint in second grade. All five of my kids did too, and yes they were in public schools. In fact, my youngest when he was in the second grade liked power point so much that he made a presentation on turtles just for fun in his spare time. My oldest child attended k-12 public schools and is now excelling at the university level, entering her junior year. I expect the of my children will do the same, all without private school.
If I felt the burning need to place my kids into private school certainly wouldn’t have the gall to mooch off my fellow taxpayers to pay for my lifestyle choices.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:24 pm
Sweet, I have three gnats buzzing around.
So PJ, learning is a sign of a lack of intelligence? Pray tell how you came to that conclusion? It seems a tad bit “unconventional” as it were………..
The Fresh Prince of BIll Ayers
May 22nd, 2012
1:25 pm
Apparently this whole flap was intended to be a work-around to allow parents a way to get their kids out of a poor performing school district. The real issue is getting talented teachers in said districts, and somehow getting parents more involved. If you take the involved parent’s families out, the less involved and more average students are left leaving an “average environment”.
robo
May 22nd, 2012
1:25 pm
I think schools would perform better with a consumer-based system based on merit rewards rather than tenure whereby administrators and teachers can grow fat and lazy. It is competition that would drive the schools to become better. The system in place is antiquated with long summer vacations and unions. In the real world, no one gets the entire summer off. In the real world, collective bargaining fails in business. It’s time to make the system work more like a business.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
1:25 pm
But I’m sure they did that at your public school as well, I know………
When I was in public school, power point did not exist…
My daughter is 3 and has not yet enrolled in public school, therefore I don’t have any personal ancedotes to contribute at this point.
captguitarman
May 22nd, 2012
1:26 pm
Another excellent effort comparable to your recent column about Speaker Ralston’s lame attempt to characterize legislative ethics reform as a partisan issue driven by the Dem/Libs and media elitists etc. But, as it turns out, a “few” Pub/Cons think we need legislative ethics reform too. It is only conjecture, but one can only imagine the number of fancy meals, hotel stays, golf trips, expensive ickets, vacations, etc. that may have been proferred and accepted by legislators (all above selling their influence, of course) who helped to create this complete boondoggle of a law that essentially provides dollar for dollar state tax credits for private school tuition payments. And the criminalization of any activities to create transparency and distribute information regarding the law and the sources and the use of these funds is just soooo totally Gold Dome in its approach, wouldn’t you agree?
While I am empathetic to those frustrated with the public schools, how they are run and administered, and the incompetence, waste, and rampant lack of professional ethics, and the emphasis on the administrators careers and not the needs of the students and teachers — the dishonest and disingenuous way this law was sold, passed, and then put into effect is reprehensible. But, Georgians must admit that the collection of taxes fees, or funds for one stated purpose, and then their use for some other purpose, is not exactly a rare thing under the Gold Dome. And, it is clear when asked about it that our legislators feel “entitled” (they are entitled to a lot of things if you ask them about it) to redirect any and all funds without consulting the voters.
And finally, comparing how Georgia does things vs. other neighboring states like Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina, and North Carolina, or even other southern states like Texas or Virginia, is like comparing the work of the kids in the remedial class to that of the National Honor Society. Until, ethics reform comes, and this “jes good ol’ boys doin’ bidness” culture is eradicated from the Georgia legislature . . . . Well, as is often stated on these pages, and regarding this latest instance of things like this . . . . Georgians most certainly have the state government that they deserve.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
1:27 pm
RB-already pointed out the name calling posts. Apparently Fred is reading challenged as well as a liar, bless his thieving heart.
Peter
May 22nd, 2012
1:28 pm
The religious Republican’s are at it again… saying put all the Queers in a barbed wire enclosure, and drop in food.
Imagine how dumb that sounds, never mind how Anti-Christian a statement that is.
Religious Republican’s are evil.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:28 pm
saywhat?
May 22nd, 2012
1:24 pm
Fred, BFD about your child using powerpoint in second grade. All five of my kids did too, and yes they were in public schools.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Pray tell, what school? I use that as one of MANY examples of what public schools can’t offer, but apparently YPUR public school had computers for all their students. Since no schools around HERE do that I’m curious where they went to school.
If I felt the burning need to place my kids into private school certainly wouldn’t have the gall to mooch off my fellow taxpayers to pay for my lifestyle choices.
I’m glad you feel that way, I do to. What is your point?
Mick
May 22nd, 2012
1:29 pm
Public schools are always getting bashed, I submit that most of the problems with education begins at home; if you have parents that care and monitor progress, most public schools can deliver an effective product. When the parents don’t care? All bets are off…
Generation$crewed
May 22nd, 2012
1:29 pm
This does not seem right. Seems like the fix is in.
But I can’t hate them for it.
I went to public school all 13 yrs then 2 more yrs of state sponsored “public” college.
However my children will attend private schools. The public school system is a joke now. With too many concerns to list. I was a hs teacher for 4yrs before changing career paths. With that insider knowledge the choice is even easier!
But under the current system I understand it is my responsibility to pay for their education and the other children in my area. Until we reform education that is the law of the land.
Shouldn’t be going around trying to find ways to bs the system, and taking tax money. Seems it would cost about the same to just pay the tuition and not bother with laundering the money thru the state tax system.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
1:29 pm
Angry @ 1:07
Good post
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
1:30 pm
This is OT, but Nate Silver had a very good column yesterday on the topic of “swing” voters and “swing” states, wherein he presented a nicely detailed discussion with examples. It’s a bit of a slog to get through the whole thing, but if you’re a numbers person, you might find it worthwhile.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/21/swing-voters-and-elastic-states/#more-30905
Mr. Silver discusses a lot of HOW and WHY, and IMO demonstrates why he’s the go-to guy for understanding and analysis of political polling.
BTW, did you know that after a false start as an economic consultant, he quit his job and became a baseball statistician? It’s true!
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:31 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
1:27 pm
RB-already pointed out the name calling posts. Apparently Fred is reading challenged as well as a liar, bless his thieving heart.
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Wow. A bold faced lie. You have pointed out nothing, yet here you are attacking ME and calling ME names. Sweet. I’ve really got you so beat down you can’t think straight. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to break your spirit, I just wanted you to admit your fallacy……..
RB from Gwinnett
May 22nd, 2012
1:32 pm
Just copy and paste for us Becky. Very simple end to the question. Surely you can do that, right?
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:32 pm
“When I was in public school, power point did not exist…”- Brocephus
You’re an old fart.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
1:34 pm
Bro
I’m with you……….. It was the overhead projector.
TD…… Don’t lie. That is you as well.
hahahaha
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
1:36 pm
Fred @1:24 pm
Fred, Fred, Fred, your brain is dead. That post was so unintelligible that your lack of learning really shows through. Get some rest buddy, you must need it.
GNATS UNITE!
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
1:36 pm
Well, we’ve donated hundreds or thousands, I lose track, to local charities this year so far and we do so with no expectations of receiving any monetary benefit in return. We never write off any of our giving because that just plain violates the very spirit of charitable giving. I think we are long overdue for getting rid of all tax breaks for charitable giving. Also, a true Christian would not need a tax break to do the proper thing.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
1:36 pm
Fred-why don’t you man up and get a job and get off all the self admitted blogs you post to all day long? Do you make your wife work to pay your offspring’s tuition or do you contribute at all?
Does your child enjoy her 2 hour school bus ride twice a day to school from Tucker or do you get out of bed and drive her? Do you have a license or did you lose it?
See-I have many friends whose children attend Woodward. Not too hard to figure out who you are-the one they all giggle about at PTA meetings. Bless your heart.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:36 pm
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:32 pm
“When I was in public school, power point did not exist…”- Brocephus
You’re an old fart.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Powerpoint was invented in 1987. LOL I was out of college and in the Army by then, Brocephus is still a pup (And I’ve learned more about power point and it’s creators than I wanted to today).
I thought you were “middle aged” Doomy. (in your 40’s at least).
Aquagirl
May 22nd, 2012
1:36 pm
aqua girl, so you are saying that once funds collected from individuals are in gov’t hands, it doesn’t belong to them, here lies the fundemental problem I have with big gov’t, liberalism, or whatever you want to call it
Yes, that’s pretty much the definition of taxes. You get your say via elected representatives. That’s called taxation with representation. Nobody agrees 100% on how their taxes are spent.
Tea Potty whiners don’t like it when they don’t get to overrule everyone else around them. That’s called throwing a tantrum and frankly those folks can take a flying fornication at a rolling doughnut.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
1:38 pm
Doom — “You’re an old fart.”
I must be an older one, then, because it didn’t come out for several years after I finished my first BA and had entered the Army. And I don’t recall seeing any PP presentations in the Army, despite PP having been released before I got out.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:38 pm
Mick,
There are still a lot of good public schools out there. In my 12 years I can think of 1 bad teacher- and that was because he was 65 that year and retiring and I think he just mailed it in and didn’t give a shyte. Otherwise all my public school teachers were for the most part excellent. And today there are still some good ones. My 2 nieces go to a public elementary that is pretty good. But starting in the 7th grade they are going to private school. That issue has already been decided far in advance. And their mother is a public school teacher. That should tell you something.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:40 pm
Joe Mama,
That would just make you a more stale old fart.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:40 pm
So since Becky has been proven a liar she now has to resort to personal attacks and implied gossip lol. Sweet.
Gee Becky, it takes YOU two hours to drive to College Park from Woodward? Do you go via Rome or something? As to my financials and work habits, why don’t you enlighten me Becky? What did I do today in between my posts here?
How is bartending?
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
1:42 pm
Doom — “That would just make you a more stale old fart.”
Ah prefers ta be called “crusty,” iffen y’don’t mind.
Thomas
May 22nd, 2012
1:44 pm
Proving, once again that, anything that whatever the gov’t touches, funds, is associated with will be corrupt. I, as most folks, undertands we all have basic needs. Aside from basic needs I completely fail to understand anyone who doesn’t want to limit government. The TSPLOT sounds great, wonderful, all in, let’s do it, but this is same damn gov’t that extends the 400 toll in the dark of night, that spends what $1 billion more than budget on the international concourse, that sponsors and runs the above scholarship program. Every day you Jay you hammer the gov’t and ethics- how in the world does one reconcile that with gov’t increase of anything? Do know this- a third – and once again- highly inefficient stimulus will strongly be pitched in the next two or three weeks. It is a complete lack of leadership for now 11 years in DC that got us here.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:45 pm
“Tea Potty whiners don’t like it when they don’t get to overrule everyone else around them.”
Aquagirl,
No. What they don’t like is the tax money being frivolously wasted and the govt irresponsibly spending trillions more than what they are taking in. For example when the govt owns 14,000 buildings that it isn’t using and they are just sitting vacant but the govt is still paying for upkeep, rent, etc. is that a wise expenditure of all of our taxpayer money?
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:46 pm
Yo Doomy, you’ll like this:
http://www.ajc.com/news/former-cnn-exec-cited-1443424.html
BlahBlahBlah
May 22nd, 2012
1:48 pm
“three people running a private scholarship fund in Cumming are being paid $175,600 each to administer the money flowing through that supposedly charitable organization. Those salaries are in effect being paid with taxpayers’ money that is flowing through those organizations with little or no state oversight, and administrators at other poorly regulated SSOs are also collecting six-figure incomes.”
Who do they think they are, public school administrators? Usually you have to work in Dekalb, Fulton, APS etc. to pull down sweet coin like that!
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:48 pm
For example when the govt owns 14,000 buildings that it isn’t using and they are just sitting vacant but the govt is still paying for upkeep, rent, etc. is that a wise expenditure of all of our taxpayer money?
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Why DOESN’T the VA get rid of those? Oh wait, I just saw 14,000. Are they ALL VA? I know the VA has a butt load though.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:50 pm
Joe mama,
Crusty old fart of a geezer it shall be written.
Joseph
May 22nd, 2012
1:50 pm
Written by someone who has no clue what a failing school system looks like. Its sad Jay that you and your ilk write about something as fact when its simply not true.
godless heathen
May 22nd, 2012
1:50 pm
Power Point? We hardly had chalk boards when I was in school. Had 2 large classes per teacher in the same classroom. The teacher would address half the room at a time, while the other half worked on their assignments. The teachers had no “aides” and the Principal taught a full schedule. Wonder we learned anything.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:51 pm
“Two new reports say obesity rate could top 40 percent by 2030″
That’s it. Step away from the computers folks and get off your lazy fat asses and go run around the block 6,000 times. Fred you said you are a fat man so you get to run 10,000 laps. Doomy has gotten fat also so I’m putting myself down for 8,000 laps.
Mick
May 22nd, 2012
1:54 pm
doom
I went to both catholic and public school, had some really great nuns and some bad ones; went to public school and had some really great teachers and some mediocre ones. Still, it was up to me to access my education and for the most part I did. Enjoyed college way more than high school..
saywhat?
May 22nd, 2012
1:55 pm
fred- rockdale county schools
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:56 pm
godless heathen,
We usually had 27-30 students per classload. Students still learned just fine though. No teachers aides either which frankly just sounds like a waste of money to me. I mean what do they do? Just hand out papers and shuffle paperwork? And we walked 8 miles barefoot through snow in winter and hurricanes in summer, fighting off wolves, cougars,, and bears all the while.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:56 pm
Doomy: LOL I now post only from the treadmill. What I need though is one of those treadmills (or bikes) that power the computer. You have to go so fast in order to power it up.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:57 pm
saywhat: Thanks.
straitroad
May 22nd, 2012
1:58 pm
Jay, I agree with you on this one. Like it or not, we need public schools to be able to educate those who otherwise wouldn’t bother. Businesses need people who can at least read and write. Those who choose to do private school are making a good choice but shouldn’t expect tax dollars to help with tuition.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
1:58 pm
“And we walked 8 miles barefoot through snow in winter and hurricanes in summer, fighting off wolves, cougars,, and bears all the while.”
Wimp. It was probably downhill……… both ways……..
godless heathen
May 22nd, 2012
1:58 pm
Doom,
Color TV is what ruined the world.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
1:59 pm
Fred,
No. Probably just a few hundred are VA owned. Its kinda shocking when you start seeing just how much waste their is in govt. We could probably fund many of the social programs that liberals believe in if we could just cut out the waste. I’m about done with my popcorn bag. It lasted throughout your whole lambasting of poor Becky. Still didn’t see her copy and paste of your name calling though.
Aquagirl
May 22nd, 2012
1:59 pm
What they don’t like is the tax money being frivolously wasted and the govt irresponsibly spending trillions more than what they are taking in.
That’s the government elected according to our Constitution. If “they” don’t like it, “they” can speak their mind, vote, or go live in Singapore. I personally don’t care.
George Washington knew what to do with tax dodgers, maybe we should elect somebody like him to deal with our whiners.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
2:01 pm
“Color TV is what ruined the world.”
On that we agree to agree. It sure is an easy excuse for people not to get out and exercise. Weak excuse, but an easy one
Mick
May 22nd, 2012
2:01 pm
doom
I guess I’m bucking the trend; in the best shape of my life, got the abs back and all, been working out very methodically since january. the single most important thing? Diet. Yes, it all comes to to a very simple philosophy – eat to live not live to eat. All the snacking, fast foods, junk foods need to go then..voila…all your old clothes will fit again. Plus, I don’t want to rack up sky high medicare bills because poor old jm needs a break from us greedy seniors…
Rockerbabe
May 22nd, 2012
2:02 pm
Georgia voted for republicans and now most are getting shafted. I sure hope someone with “standing” sues the hell out of the governor and the legislature for violating the Georgia constitution on separation of church and state.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 22nd, 2012
2:03 pm
A buxom babe claimed she was fired from her job at a Manhattan lingerie distributor — for being too hot.
Two days after getting hired in April, a supervisor at the business in the Garment District told Lauren Odes the Orthodox Jewish owners were not happy with her attire.
And they said her boobs were a dangerous distraction.
It’s a Zionist conspiracy, I tells ya!
saywhat?
May 22nd, 2012
2:06 pm
I feel sorry for the poor inner city kids who will never get to experience such things as visits to US National Parks, all the excellent museums across the country, or the many fine coastal attractions.
In honor of that, I would like to propose a Georgia tax credit of $2500 when I donate that amount to an organization that provides scholarships to provide such experiences for the needy kids. Now, if my own family just happens to then qualify for a $2450 scholarship to do things we may have done on our own anyway, so be it. I’m willing to take that risk. After all, its for the needy inner city kids.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
2:06 pm
Just Damn Kam. I have avoided ALL DAY posting that article lol. Most recently I started to ask Doomy if that was his new girlfriend. ROFL
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 22nd, 2012
2:07 pm
@TaxPayer 1:36pm “We never write off any of our giving because that just plain violates the very spirit of charitable giving. I think we are long overdue for getting rid of all tax breaks for charitable giving.”
You are my soul mate….but I would go further to eliminate all deductions for anything other than other income-based taxes paid. Tax deductions are nothing more than government manipulation and redistribution of tax dollars/wealth…which so many people never quite seem to understand.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
2:08 pm
I saw that story and the pic that went with it. She’s not hot.
Thulsa Doom
May 22nd, 2012
2:08 pm
Godless heathen,
You may damn well be right about color tv, cable, x boxes, etc. Kids today just got way too much useless shyte to watch and partake of.
Fred,
I embellished about the dangerous travails of our travels. We were perfectly safe in our Sherman tank convoy.
Mick,
My best friend went to Catholic school. He got booted. Enough of those mean ole nuns smacking his knuckles with rulers. Ouch.
” I submit that most of the problems with education begins at home; if you have parents that care and monitor progress, most public schools can deliver an effective product. When the parents don’t care? All bets are off…”
I think that was the most salient point of the day Mick and my teacher sister sees it every day. Their home environment is everything and if the parents just don’t give a shyte then all bets are indeed off. And she teaches a class of 15 or so students because of a state law mandate regarding class size.
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
2:09 pm
There are alot of needy kids in the mountains and trailer parks as well. Don’t forget about them.
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
2:10 pm
Becky, Fred DIDN’T call you a name.
Fred can go all “Whirling Dervish-y” in his posts sometime, but when he calls someone “a name” he’ll admit it.
Heck, sometimes he’ll double down on it.
see? No name calling here…
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:32 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:25 pm
Fred-my point was you made the choice to send junior to a private school, good for you. Now pay for it. And don’t think for a minute we know you weren’t bragging just a bit about the ability to do so.
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I DO pay for it Becky, just as I pay my property taxes (and have for 30 years) to educate the children of others. As to bragging? You can stick your wealth envy up your ass right where it belongs. I tiold my wife 20 years ago to start saving because when we had kids they were going to Woodward Academy. She did and they do.
Woodward has scholarships for kids who can’t pay for it, just like I linked but you are so envious that you didn’t read a thing I have written, you looked at MY words and substituted YOUR twisted beliefs. At Woodward, they don’t allow you to “contribute” and pick your child for the “scholarship.’
I’ll hold my breath while I await your apology for your stupid assumptions……… (yeah right).