The bait-and-switch tactic driving Georgia’s education debate
The school-choice and voucher movement has long tried to sell itself to the public as a public-spirited crusade to allow low-income, often minority and inner-city students to escape bad public schools.
However, critics of the movement have long suspected that it was something else entirely. They have argued that the movement was actually an ill-disguised scam to divert public taxpayer money to private schools that serve a middle-class clientele, with the plight of poor students being used as a cynical cover.
Sadly, there is overwhelming evidence that in Georgia, the second interpretation is the correct interpretation.
The biggest success of the school-choice movement in Georgia came in 2008, when the state Legislature passed a “scholarship program” supposedly intended to help lower-income students attend private schools. Under the law, individuals and corporations who donate to a “student scholarship organization” can receive a dollar-for-dollar credit against their state taxes. In other words, if you donate $2,000 to a SSO, you can deduct $2,000 directly from your Georgia tax bill.
The SSO is then supposed to use those contributions to help defray tuition for low-income students. But in most cases, that’s not how it works. Instead, affluent families and relatives of private-school students are donating money under the guise that it will be used for “scholarships,” and are getting a dollar-for-dollar tax reduction on that donation. They then collect the scholarship that they funded in the form of lower tuition. It operates as a direct taxpayer subsidy of private schools.
For example, today’s New York Times reports on how the Georgia law was explained to parents attending a meeting last year at Gwinnett Christian Academy:
“A very small percentage of that money will be set aside for a needs-based scholarship fund,” Wyatt Bozeman, an administrator at the school near Atlanta, said during an informational session. “The rest of the money will be channeled to the family that raised it.”
A handout circulated at the meeting instructed families to donate, qualify for a tax credit and then apply for a scholarship for their own children, many of whom were already attending the school.
“If a student has friends, relatives or even corporations that pay Georgia income tax, all of those people can make a donation to that child’s school,” added an official with a scholarship group working with the school.
The exchange at Gwinnett Christian Academy, a recording of which was obtained by The New York Times, is just one example of how scholarship programs have been twisted to benefit private schools at the expense of the neediest children….
Most of the private schools are religious. Nearly a quarter of the participating schools in Georgia require families to make a profession of religious faith, according to their Web sites. Many of those schools adhere to a fundamentalist brand of Christianity. A commonly used sixth-grade science text retells the creation story contained in Genesis, omitting any other explanation. An economics book used in some high schools holds that the Antichrist — a world ruler predicted in the New Testament — will one day control what is bought and sold.
Is this an example of a well-intended law that has unfortunately gone awry? No, it is not. Despite what they have claimed publicly, it is a law that is working precisely as its supporters intended. Furthermore, in funneling state tax dollars to private and often religious-based institutions, it is in violation of the Georgia constitution, which states that “no money shall ever be taken from the public treasury, directly or indirectly, in aid of any church, sect, cult, or religious denomination or of any sectarian institution.”
The charge that the law is being used precisely as intended may seem harsh, but the comparison with a similar program in neighboring Florida is telling. In Florida, only students from families that are at or below 185 percent of the poverty line may receive scholarships. Georgia law contains no income limit on recipients.
Florida law requires that private schools receiving significant tax-derived scholarship money report the performance of its students on standardized tests. Georgia law has no such requirement, and there is no accountability for the education that state tax dollars are providing.
Florida also requires that private schools benefiting from such programs release demographic information about students receiving the scholarships. Georgia schools are not required to collect or report such data.
These and other problems with the Georgia law are laid out in a well-researched, comprehensive report by the Atlanta-based Southern Education Foundation. Initially, the SEF was intrigued by the new law, which seemed to mesh nicely with its own mission of supporting “creative solutions to ensure fairness and excellence in education for low-income students from preschool through higher education.”
However, as SEF officials looked more closely at the law and how it operates, they discovered that it was not working at all as its proponents had claimed:
“(The program) lacks transparency regarding contributors, beneficiaries, and the criteria by which scholarships are awarded or even the size and number of scholarships awarded. Nor do the schools involved appear to be subject to any accountability regarding the academic standards in force or academic outcomes of their students. There are no income limits for eligibility and, in the absence of a mandate to report demographic information on participating students, it is difficult to see how the program is meeting its stated policy objective of increasing the affordability of private schools for low income families.”
In fact, rather than serve as a lifeline for poor minority students seeking to escape bad public schools, the SEF report found that “it appears from available sources that the Georgia tax credit scholarships have done little more than support white students to attend schools that already have extreme racial isolation.”
The lack of accountability consciously built into the bill has had other consequences as well. For example, the AJC reported earlier this year that three people running a private scholarship fund in Cumming are being paid $175,600 each to administer the money flowing through that supposedly charitable organization. Those salaries are in effect being paid with taxpayers’ money that is flowing through those organizations with little or no state oversight, and administrators at other poorly regulated SSOs are also collecting six-figure incomes.
Information about the salaries was obtained through federal tax records, not through state data. In fact, state legislators have made it a criminal offense for anyone to release a whole range of financial and tax data regarding the state scholarship program, the organizations that administer them or the schools that receive the money.
The cynicism and deception involved in passing and implementing the Georgia scholarship program is impressive. It also serves as a warning sign regarding a proposed constitutional amendment that will go before the voters in November that would strip local school districts of the power to control the creation of charter schools.
The proposed amendment is being pushed by the same groups and politicians who pushed the scholarship legislation, using similar arguments about trying to help those trapped in underperforming schools. Their track record suggests that their concern is insincere, and that their larger goal is to undermine public education by diverting public dollars to finance schools pursuing a private agenda.
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
488 comments Add your comment
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
11:31 am
Wow, 2 pages into a Jay Bookman blog, and no one has blamed Obama. Kudos!
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
11:32 am
The private school parents were told to trot down to their local public school, “enroll” their kids there even though they had no intention of attending, and then Voila! — they were scholarship eligible!!!
“Oy to the freakin’ vey, the things they do in my name.”
–Josh Ben-Joseph
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
11:32 am
Well we’ll always have the dip $hit 10% that just can’t tolerate differing view points. That’s true practically everywhere and not only on a blog. later
Yep, they usually leave here in a huff instead of staying and debating. Enjoy your day.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:33 am
It is one thing for an individual to send their kids to private schools for whatever reason they chose to do. It is a totally different issue for that tuition to be subsidized.
It seems some on here are intentionally muddying the waters to make appear that those against this program do not want people sending their kids to private school.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
11:36 am
tbs-parents can send their children to the moon for all I care if they pay for it and not me.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:36 am
Bro @ 11:30
well said
If I say something that is wrong and my facts are not correct………. it is open game for ridicule.
But the people who will put words in someone’s mouth and make assertions about what someone else posted is actually sad at times and I guess funny at other times
SoGaVet
May 22nd, 2012
11:37 am
Anyone taking bets on what hidden agendas like this are behind the Charter School amendment?
Paul
May 22nd, 2012
11:37 am
BOTH
“It seems some on here are intentionally muddying the waters to make appear…”
So why should their tactics today be any different from any other day?
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
May 22nd, 2012
11:37 am
“Florida….& report the performance of its students on standardized tests. Georgia law has no such requirement, and there is no accountability for the education that state tax dollars are providing.”
Well, hell no, what would it look like when Johnny’s ‘progress’ report says, he learned the Earth was 6,000 yrs old, and Jesus rode in on a dinosaur?
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
11:37 am
They BOTH @ 11:33
Can’t argue with that. I’m debating on which path I wanna start my 3yr old. If I’m gonna invest who knows how many thousands of dollars in a private school education and she’s just as well of in the public school, why would I want to use that money in that manner? Seems like a waste. I’m a firm believer in you get what you give. If you leave your child at school and treat it as daycare, then you’re gonna get a daycare education. On the other hand, if you’re actively involved in your child’s education, your child will thrive regardless to whether they are in the public or private system.
larry
May 22nd, 2012
11:37 am
It’s Obama’s fault , if he wasnt such a socialist Muslim , then parents wouldn’t have to send their children to religous, private, tax deducting school in the first place.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:37 am
Becky
BINGO
larry
May 22nd, 2012
11:38 am
snark !!!
Paul
May 22nd, 2012
11:39 am
BOTH
“If I say something that is wrong and my facts are not correct………. it is open game for ridicule.”
I’d hope not. If ridicule is the only response, it just encourages people to shy away from attempting any facts.
’sides which, knowledge and understanding change over time.
For some, anyway….
Grasshopper
May 22nd, 2012
11:39 am
“On the other hand, if you’re actively involved in your child’s education, your child will thrive regardless to whether they are in the public or private system.”
If you believe that, then send your kid to the worst performing school in the city and see how that little experiment works out.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:41 am
Bro
As you stated the public school system as a whole does need work in many areas, so I’m sure that is a tough choice for you. However there are good public schools and to your point parent involvement is a huge factor in the success of the child.
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
11:41 am
I think the reasoning is pretty obvious, (ir)Rational, beginning with the point that $12,000 is a lot less than the $20K tuition at Westminster.
Then you have the fact that Westminster picks and chooses who to educate, and they don’t enroll kids with behavior problems or those who are less intellectually gifted.
Public schools, in contrast, are required by law to educate everyone, including those less gifted, up to including the profoundly retarded. Those less-gifted students take up a lot more time and resources, which reduces the time and resources available for other students to well below what that $12,000 average might suggest.
I know my own kids went through Atlanta public schools, K-12, and got great grades and SAT scores and have flourished at top-of-the-line universities.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
11:42 am
Sifting through Jay’s link, and early on, there’s this little passage for those who champion “choice”…
A cottage industry of these groups has sprung up, in some cases collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars in administrative fees, according to tax filings. The groups often work in concert with private schools like Gwinnett Christian Academy to solicit donations and determine who will get the scholarships — in effect limiting school choice for the students themselves. In most states, students who withdraw from the schools cannot take the scholarship money with them.
So, I donate to a group to get the tax credit. In return, I get the scholarship. After I get that scholarship, I could be limited to the choice of schools AND if my child withdraws, I can’t transfer or take the scholarship funds with me. Sounds like Bernie Madoff had something to do with this stuff….
ragnar danneskjold
May 22nd, 2012
11:42 am
Let me get this straight – taxpayers actually spend money for the racket that purports to be the Georgia education system?
godless heathen
May 22nd, 2012
11:42 am
Becky: parents can send their children to the moon for all I care if they pay for it and not me.
You forgot to add, “And they pay to educate my kids, too.”
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
11:43 am
G. Heathen — “And you can be assured that not one single Democratic voter is taking advantage of this scam.”
To be sure, this isn’t an issue of GOP v. Dem in my mind. It’s an issue of the Haves wanting the Have-Nots to pay for the Haves’ kids’ private-school education regardless of what party the Haves happen to belong to.
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
11:43 am
I say give every child a scholarship to a private school then we can call them public schools.
This discussion is akin to getting food stamps and driving a nice car. The only difference is that we can see those folks and what they are doing. These cheats are hidden behind their income tax forms so on one knows who they are.
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
11:44 am
Just curious, are the people that consider taking other peoples money in order to subsidies their spawns education considerd to be part of the “moocher” class or the “job creator” class?
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
May 22nd, 2012
11:44 am
again, as mrsstsimons points out, it does absolutely no good attempting
to shame this breed of Georgia con – it simply can’t be done.
Shame, embarrassment, regret, remorse?
she says its like anti-Prego, ‘its not in there…’
Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
May 22nd, 2012
11:45 am
So, if my taxes are $15,000, I can donate $15,000 and get that deducted from my taxes?
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:46 am
Paul
I’m just saying on a blog, you are going to get all sorts of responses. I may not like the response I get, if my facts are incorrect, however the chances are high that someone will “go after” the statement. I’m ok with that. After all it is the a blog.
It is the putting words into my mouth and making assertions and conclusions then attributing them to me that imo goes over the line.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
11:46 am
larry — “It’s Obama’s fault , if he wasnt such a socialist Muslim , then parents wouldn’t have to send their children to religous, private, tax deducting school in the first place.”
Your Kung Fu is strong, stranger.
curious
May 22nd, 2012
11:47 am
At least we have a better understanding of why school taxes are so high.
Any idea of how many $ per year are being diverted from the State through this tax credit program?
Curious Observer
May 22nd, 2012
11:47 am
I taught a lot of college freshmen during my career, and I never found one instance in which a private school graduate was better prepared than a public school graduate—quite the opposite, in fact. I think it’s quite obvious why private schools are not subject to testing requirements.
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
11:47 am
Finn McCool – “So, if my taxes are $15,000, I can donate $15,000 and get that deducted from my taxes?”
MOOCHER ALERT!!!!!!!!
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:48 am
“You forgot to add, ‘And they pay to educate my kids, too.’ ”
Single people and couples without kids or grown kids do the same, so what is your point?
Doggone/GA
May 22nd, 2012
11:48 am
“Single people and couples without kids or grown kids do the same, so what is your point?”
We do indeed!
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
11:49 am
Grasshopper — “If you believe that, then send your kid to the worst performing school in the city and see how that little experiment works out.”
There are a number of studies that demonstrate that increased parental involvement in a child’s education results in better performance on the part of the child. This means that a kid with involved parent/parents will tend to do better, all other things being equal, than a kid in the same school with uninvolved parents. It does not mean that you can *overcome* a crap school with enough parental involvement.
Your comment appears to belie some degree of statistical ignorance on your part, but we can overcome that.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
11:51 am
F. McCool — “So, if my taxes are $15,000, I can donate $15,000 and get that deducted from my taxes?”
Surely there is a limit on deductions, no?
randy
May 22nd, 2012
11:51 am
I have kids at both Westminster and Woodward, and am proud to say that I’ve never heard of this fraud. Because the scam violates other state laws, is there any hope of prosecuting the legislators who enacted this taxpayer theft? Can you at least tell us who drafted the law, and who voted for it?
I hope a way is found to expose the schools exploiting this racket.
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
11:51 am
Curious, the total has been limited by law to $50 million a year, although there have been efforts made to remove that cap. Most recently, the cap has been changed to rise with inflation.
And as to how much you can donate, Finn, the current limit is $2500 per couple for individuals. For businesses, it is 75 percent of your total state tax bill. Efforts to lift those caps have also been made — Gov. Perdue to his credit vetoed one such bill when it reached his desk.
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
May 22nd, 2012
11:52 am
‘… K-12, and got great grades and SAT scores and have flourished….’
hear, hear. The view from this desk indicates public education
served this family well, too…..
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
11:52 am
Doggone @ 11:48
it was a little strange that only part of the info was put out when godless made his point
It was a valid point but for some reason part of the story was left out
Doggone/GA
May 22nd, 2012
11:54 am
“It was a valid point but for some reason part of the story was left out”
And I can’t even take advantage of this scam…since I don’t have any children
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
11:54 am
I wonder how these parents are going to explain to their kid that their education was paid for by public assistance; the welfare cheats. They need to get off their butts and get two or three jobs if they want specialties for their children.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
11:57 am
If you believe that, then send your kid to the worst performing school in the city and see how that little experiment works out.
She’ll still come out ok. I came out of high school with a 4.0 and graduated cum laude in mathematics. I think I can help my child’s education much more than you realize.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
11:57 am
I guess if you send your kids to scummy thieving schools with no ethics or morality then they will become
republicansmorally challenged thieves with no ethics. Luckily, we chose to send our child to an decent school.Q
If I redirect some of my Georgia tax payments to GOAL, can I designate the student who will benefit from the financial assistance?
A
No. Although a participant in the Georgia GOAL program may designate our school and recommend a possible GOAL recipient (except a dependent of the donor), the financial aid committee at our school will have the discretion of deciding which qualified recipients will be recommended to GOAL for financial assistance. GOAL funds will be awarded to new students from public schools who qualify for need-based aid as determined by the Admissions financial aid process. Students eligible for need-based financial aid at Woodward are those in grades 7-12. Woodward will follow the same process for awarding GOAL funds as they do for need-based financial aid. There will be no application process to receive GOAL specific funds.
Q
What students are eligible under the law to receive financial assistance from the Georgia GOAL Scholarship Program?
A
As the legislation indicates, eligible students include those who are “Georgia residents enrolled in a Georgia secondary or primary public school or eligible to enroll in a qualified kindergarten or pre-kindergarten program.” However, Woodward Academy will follow the established financial aid process, making GOAL aid available to qualifying new students from public schools, entering grades 7-12.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
12:00 pm
They BOTH
It’s really not that hard of a choice for me. Why would I pay crap loads of money for school AND pay for public school too? It’s a waste of money. If the public school does not appear to be effective, I can either do it myself or move somewhere better. To me, private school is nothing but a money pit for the majority of people.
godless heathen
May 22nd, 2012
12:01 pm
You forgot to add, ‘And they pay to educate my kids, too.’ ”
Single people and couples without kids or grown kids do the same, so what is your point?
That was the point that should not be forgotten. People that choose private schools pay for both, the private school they use and the public school they don’t. And I dare say that because of the amount of real property I own, I’ve paid to educate quite a few, although none were my own.
An argument could be made that a portion of the costs for private school should be tax deductible, but only IF the private school were non-religious and were measured against public schools, which isn’t the case now.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:04 pm
And what about the childless singles or couples that have no children and never will and still pay school taxes? This is a huge slap in the face for them. Legalized theft!
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:05 pm
“Skipper, if you took kids with the same demographic background as those at Westminster, put them into public schools and spent a minimum of $20,000 a year educating each one of them — $22,700 for grades 6-12 — like they do at Westminster, I bet public schools could do a pretty damn fine job.”
You would lose that bet sport and you know it.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
12:05 pm
G. Heathen — “That was the point that should not be forgotten. People that choose private schools pay for both, the private school they use and the public school they don’t.”
I’m not sure why that should matter. You pay to subsidize MARTA, but you don’t get a refund voucher to apply against a car payment if you choose not to use mass transit.
You can use publicly-funded facilities (like schools, transit, etc) if you want to, but if you choose not to, I don’t think you should expect anything for it.
td
May 22nd, 2012
12:05 pm
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
11:41 am
“I know my own kids went through Atlanta public schools, K-12, and got great grades and SAT scores and have flourished at top-of-the-line universities.”
Which just helps prove the point I have been attempting to make for years on these blogs about education. The best predictor of success in the educational process for students is not money or school but the parent. I am sure your children would be successful and well educated even if they had attended the worst school on the planet because you and your wife gave a damn and made sure of it.
Money is not the problem in education. Parents are the problem and when we as a society really start chastising and holding parents accountable for their child’s education then we will start seeing tremendous gains in the overall education of all children.
Obama is over
May 22nd, 2012
12:06 pm
Regardless of political affiliation, the focus here should be on the quality of education for our children in the State of Georgia. Your blog today is somewhat myopic in that it only shows extreme examples of religious private schools, reflects a certain amount of wealth envy, and offers no solutions to improve the quality of education in the system. I am involved in a non-profit that creates public private partnerships to improve education in the State of Georgia. I am particularly proud of Centennial Place Elementary and East Lake Elementary. Centennial is located next to the old Techwood homes housing project and Ga.Tech. Working with the City and the State, we hand selected faculty, installed a core curriculum, and began having classes year round. The school now performs in the top quartile of elementary schools in the State. Unfortunately, all of this takes money and tax credits are a effective way to motivate individuals to contribute. Public education is designed to benefit the public, not just the parents who have children in public schools. Abuse of the system like the APS testing scandal or the non-profit salaries you highlight today, should not be tolerated. However, anything we can do to improve the education of our children ,including freedom of school choice, should be encouraged. The goal here is to improve education for the children of Georgia, not assign partisan blame, or criticize the wealthy for using a tax credit.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
12:07 pm
Becky — “And what about the childless singles or couples that have no children and never will and still pay school taxes? This is a huge slap in the face for them. Legalized theft!”
I’m in that group and I don’t see it that way. I have no problem supporting public education, and I want it to be as good as possible so that kids can get good jobs and become productive citizens. After all, they’re going to be contributing toward supporting me in my old age, so I don’t object at all to contributing toward giving them a good start in life.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:08 pm
“To me, private school is nothing but a money pit for the majority of people.”
And you are also wrong cowboy. I the FIRST semester of SECOND GRADE my daughter had to do a research project (hers was on polar bears) using power point. SHE did it, not I. They then invited us in to watch the children give their reports. It was awesome dude. After that, I had my daughter teach me how to use power point…….
But I’m sure they did that at your public school as well, I know………
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:09 pm
JHM-I agree with you. I was referring to those taking tax cuts for private schools, the childless folks have no choice.
Michael
May 22nd, 2012
12:10 pm
There was a brief related point on NPR this morning. Something to the effect that Gov Deal set a goal of a significant increase in college graduates in Georgia to meet future demands for an educated work force in Georgia. The report also indicated that Georgia is underfunding education by $1 billion per year. This program operates in direct opposition to these goals and problems.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
12:10 pm
Godless
We will have to agree to disagree. I will not be agreeing that an individual who made a choice should also be provided an additional tax break.
There is more of an argument to say that a person with no kids should not be paying to support schools, however with all the problems with various school systems, I’m not looking to suck more money out of the system
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
12:10 pm
Becky — I see, thanks for the clarification.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
12:12 pm
Paul
I was just making general statement to Bro. It happened to him today and to me yesterday.
While I’m sure it occurs on here daily, it doesn’t happen to me each day.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:12 pm
Fred-that is admirable. But what if public schools had all the funding, smaller class sizes, etc? Public school students could also learn power point in 2nd grade.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:15 pm
Oh and (ir)Rational? Since you don’t care one way or the other about the tax break, might I suggest that you encourage your relatives to send your nephew to a school with HONOR? One that teaches honor and is one of the best around?
http://www.woodward.edu/academics/us/cc/grad-statistics/index.aspx
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
12:15 pm
I bet whoever invented power point went to a public school.
Jm
May 22nd, 2012
12:18 pm
What is stupid is the state is screwing itself, not the local school systems
Dice this is a deduction to state income taxes it would not appear to effect local school funding which is all property tax driven
The Fresh Prince of BIll Ayers
May 22nd, 2012
12:18 pm
Maximum
May 22nd, 2012
10:33 am
Ignorance is bliss for contemporary Republicans. Good luck preparing the next generation for productive adult lives, when being indoctrinated by religious zealots with little regard for reality.
How about if we compare statistics about the average sat score or standardized test scores between public and private schools before making an ignorant statement like this. Also, nobody said life was fair. It sounds like you would rather deny children the right to go to a higher performing school because of “Unfairness”. I doubt many people who put their kids in private school worry about the plight of the poor victim in the inner city, they just focus on how they can get their kids a better education and give them a better chance in life.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:19 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:12 pm
Fred-that is admirable. But what if public schools had all the funding, smaller class sizes, etc? Public school students could also learn power point in 2nd grade.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle. What is your point?
MY point is that public schools DON’T have smaller class sizes. Public schools DON’T separate the idiots from the smart kids. Public schools AREN’T ALLOWED the freedom of thought by the teachers to actually teach the children. Public schools DON’T have the funding, they are too top heavy and subject to too much graft (see Fulton and Dekalb County).
The Republicans have gotten what they want here in Georgia, crappy public schools. I won’t send my child to one.
lex regis
May 22nd, 2012
12:21 pm
This sounds like a conspiracy to defraud the taxpayers, enacted and enabled by the legislature.
Somebody needs prosecuted.
GT
May 22nd, 2012
12:22 pm
These are character issues along with legal.
I got in a discussion yesterday with someone who felt the majority of the state legislature were good people. I think one of our inherit problems in this state is we really don’t know what is right or wrong, from the very top,trickling down to the very bottom. Ignorance of right and wrong is not a defense in the eyes of the law or in reality. Our Atlanta School System cheats, not the students but the teachers. Our private “religious” schools cheat, even worse, now the kids think God is in on hatred and dishonesty and God lacks character. When you mix religion into your little skims of hate and deceit you deface all that is holy and pass it on to the next generation. The very educational system that could save us from ourselves is being used to drive us further into the coma of ignorance and sin.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:24 pm
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
12:15 pm
I bet whoever invented power point went to a public school.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Robert Gaskins PJ. And how much would you care to wager on your asinine assumption?
godless heathen
May 22nd, 2012
12:24 pm
JHMYou can use publicly-funded facilities (like schools, transit, etc) if you want to, but if you choose not to, I don’t think you should expect anything for it.
That’s because you are a commie.
Jm
May 22nd, 2012
12:24 pm
Jay 11:25
Scout’s link from yesterday suggests otherwise…..
I don’t agree frankly
Parents play too much of a role to take a kid, spend a fortune, have him go home at night, play video games and eat junk food, and turn out smart
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:25 pm
Fred-my point was you made the choice to send junior to a private school, good for you. Now pay for it. And don’t think for a minute we know you weren’t bragging just a bit about the ability to do so.
There are plenty of parents who would love to send their children to private school that lack the means to do so. It is the tax payers that must say enough with the graft and corruption that is evident and raise the levels of public school. Parents who turn a blind eye or run away are not helping.
St Simons - island ambassador to New Somalia
May 22nd, 2012
12:26 pm
As soon as these Ga republicans dismantle public education, & divert all this money to unaccountable bible school edumacation, those 21st century high tech smart cos & their jerbs are just gonna flock here, whee doggy
Grasshopper
May 22nd, 2012
12:26 pm
“She’ll still come out ok. I came out of high school with a 4.0 and graduated cum laude in mathematics. I think I can help my child’s education much more than you realize.”
Well go for it then. Let us know how it works out in 9 years.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 22nd, 2012
12:27 pm
Fred ™ May 22nd, 2012 12:19 pm
Exactly…except you forgot Cobb in your parenthetical. As soon as we were told last fall to expect upwards of 40 freshmen in the classes at our “great” East Cobb high school I started submitting the applications. I am pretty much paying for smaller class sizes, which I believe will provide a better educational opportunity for my son. Are there great teachers at my local school – I am sure there are – but how can you teach 40 teenagers algebra in 40 minutes without a bunch of them falling through the cracks while you are trying to simply control the classroom?
@The Fresh Prince of BIll Ayers – you are kinda correct. Right now my main focus is on securing the best education for my son that I can. Do I feel bad for those who can’t? Sure….but my son is my priority.
larry
May 22nd, 2012
12:27 pm
What about people who live in communities that have no private schools but yet pay their taxes just the same just to pay for a tax break for people who send their children to a private school?
It’s just not fair for those folks who mostly live in rural towns and counties to be paying for something like this. Its just corrupt legislation introduced by corrupt politicians, probably with a R next to their name.
Houston, we've got a problem
May 22nd, 2012
12:28 pm
The problem with this bill is pretty obvious. Though, I have no problem allowing parents using the property tax they pay to use for their children’s education, but I know what arguments I’m going to get, not everyone pays property tax, not everyone lives in an expensive home, not everyone has children, but I still think that parents should be allowed to use that money to educate their children as they see fit, not some gov’t official thinks they should be educated.
the problem with our education system isn’t a right wing or left wing issue and solving it won’t be resolved by using soley left or right wing ideas….
Misty Fyed
May 22nd, 2012
12:29 pm
To all you whiners with no kids…..somehow I think most of you had your education paid for by tax payers including those with no kids. But now that you have yours, you believe you shouldn’t have to help pay for someone else.
SMH
RB from Gwinnett
May 22nd, 2012
12:29 pm
I’d be willing to bet money these schools are separate legal entities from the church they operate out of and therefore don’t violate the laws of money going to churches.
Jay seems to have left off data for inner city kids and their families doing the same thing in his attempt to make this look like a rich white suburban issue. Do you have that data too jay or does it not fit your agenda?
Funny how the AJC can find this information but can’t figure out how the owner of the two highest grossing Churches franchises qualifies as a “disadvantaged” applicant for space in the new terminal. Maybe we should hold ALL of our government entities to the same standard and we would ALL be better off.
Fix the loophole and move on with a plan put in place for the right reasons.
larry
May 22nd, 2012
12:30 pm
whee doggy
That is probably all that’s going to be attracted to this state by the time the Repubs get through with it.
Maybe whee doggy will be become Georgia’s next great industry.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
12:32 pm
Fred and Angry Red Mars
You both have made some great points and of course made choices that you think will benefit your children the most in terms of their education. Not a thing wrong with that and I sincerely hope that your kids do reap that benefit.
With that said, pay for it in any way you can. Not sure if either of you utilize the program that JB speaks about in this article, however I’m single and pay my share to support schools. I’m surely not looking for anyone to get tax breaks, subsidies, etc for school
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:32 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:25 pm
Fred-my point was you made the choice to send junior to a private school, good for you. Now pay for it. And don’t think for a minute we know you weren’t bragging just a bit about the ability to do so.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I DO pay for it Becky, just as I pay my property taxes (and have for 30 years) to educate the children of others. As to bragging? You can stick your wealth envy up your ass right where it belongs. I tiold my wife 20 years ago to start saving because when we had kids they were going to Woodward Academy. She did and they do.
Woodward has scholarships for kids who can’t pay for it, just like I linked but you are so envious that you didn’t read a thing I have written, you looked at MY words and substituted YOUR twisted beliefs. At Woodward, they don’t allow you to “contribute” and pick your child for the “scholarship.’
I’ll hold my breath while I await your apology for your stupid assumptions……… (yeah right).
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:33 pm
I would like an investigation into how two church schools in Gwinnett County grew from a few buildings and a few hundred students to suddenly resembling college campuses? Greater Atlanta Christian School and Killian Hill Christian School. Who is paying for these huge expansions?
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
12:34 pm
“Fix the loophole and move on with a plan put in place for the right reasons.”
Loop hole wasn’t a mistake. The legislators under the Gold Dome put it there for a reason.
I agree with your point, but what are the chances that these legislators are going to close the loop hole that they put in?
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:37 pm
Fred-I just hope your offspring learns some manners at Woodward unlike her father that must have missed out on his learning. Wealth envy? Don’t think so. You have nothing to be envious of bud.
You have turned a nice discussion the mature ones here were having into a name calling thread. You must be proud of yourself.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
12:38 pm
M. Fyed — “To all you whiners with no kids…..somehow I think most of you had your education paid for by tax payers including those with no kids. But now that you have yours, you believe you shouldn’t have to help pay for someone else.”
Um, who here falls into that category?
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 22nd, 2012
12:38 pm
Seems to me that the two key factors in any students success…(per Jay’s earlier comment on Westminster student) are parental involvement and union involvement. Don’t expect success without the former regardless of education venue; don’t expect state of the art quality where the latter is involved…
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 22nd, 2012
12:38 pm
They BOTH suck May 22nd, 2012 12:32 pm
I do not use the program that Jay is writing about. I also did not apply for financial aid at my son’s school – even if I thought I could qualify, I had already saved the money for him to attend and felt that any aid should go to students who would not otherwise be able to afford the tuition. I am fortunate to be able to send my son to a good private school with small classes – thanks to a public school education (K-12 all the way through law school) for which I owe a debt of gratitude to the taxpayers of a couple of states in the North. I pay my $3k in property taxes each year to fund the Cobb County schools and I don’t even complain about it.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:39 pm
AngryRedMarsWoman: I know what you mean. My daughter is only 10 now, but were she to go to a public High School, right now that would be Lakeside, which is ranked #9 in the State by US News. Where you live, there are at least 3 top rated schools, Walton (#3), Lassiter (#7), and Wheeler (#13).
Yet as good as they are, they can’t compete over-all with the Woodwards and the Westminsters.
I do not begrudge on penny of my property taxes, but I’m going to keep doing everything I can to keep my child in Woodward. If need be, I’ll even get a job……..
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
12:41 pm
As the WSJ reported, Robert Gaskins and his co-inventor aren’t real happy with PowerPoint being used by schoolchildren:
“Now grade-school children turn in book reports via PowerPoint. The men call that an abomination. Children, they emphatically agree, need to think and write in complete paragraphs.”
That Black Guy
May 22nd, 2012
12:41 pm
Finn McCool (The System Isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)
May 22nd, 2012
10:49 am
I can easily see Conservatives rationalizing this.
________________________________________________________________________
And so far, no “cons” are rationalizing it.
Maybe if you took your partisaned blinders off you could actually “see” that.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:43 pm
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:37 pm
Fred-I just hope your offspring learns some manners at Woodward unlike her father that must have missed out on his learning. Wealth envy? Don’t think so. You have nothing to be envious of bud.
You have turned a nice discussion the mature ones here were having into a name calling thread. You must be proud of yourself.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You aren’t very lucid are you? Point out where I have called you a name “bud.” I merely pointed out your lack of ability to comprehend the written word.
As to my daughter? I’m proud of my intolerance of stupidity, lies and liars and inability to suffer fools. I gladly teach that to her. Pointing out YOUR hypocrisy isn’t “name calling” lol, but you twist things around in your tiny little mind as best you can bless your heart. I understand.
Hootinanny Yum Yum
May 22nd, 2012
12:44 pm
Typical right-wing class warfare…
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
12:45 pm
Fred @12:24 pm
Ok, so I’m asinine but your 2nd grader had to teach you power point.
“Are you marter than a fifth grader…”
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:45 pm
Jay
May 22nd, 2012
12:41 pm
As the WSJ reported, Robert Gaskins and his co-inventor aren’t real happy with PowerPoint being used by schoolchildren:
“Now grade-school children turn in book reports via PowerPoint. The men call that an abomination. Children, they emphatically agree, need to think and write in complete paragraphs.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And what pray tell Jay do you think they use for words in power point reports? Stick figures? Nice try at being a Luddite.
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
12:46 pm
Sorry, “smarter”
RB from Gwinnett
May 22nd, 2012
12:46 pm
BOTH, I can’t say if it was intentional or just another example of smart people using loopholes to their advantage as smart people are inclined to do.
Keep in mind, though, if you close that loophole for Westminster kids, you also close it for the inner city mom who runs a cleaning business and is doing the same thing to get her kids out of APS.
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:47 pm
Fred-charming.
You can stick your wealth envy up your ass right where it belongs.
Oops!
As the WSJ reported, Robert Gaskins and his co-inventor aren’t real happy with PowerPoint being used by schoolchildren:
“Now grade-school children turn in book reports via PowerPoint. The men call that an abomination. Children, they emphatically agree, need to think and write in complete paragraphs.”
Houston, we've got a problem
May 22nd, 2012
12:47 pm
Jay, I agree with the inventors of Power point, in fact in my little ole community school, they don’t even teach children how to write in cursive anymore. It has become a waste of time for them….I think it is rather imperative that children are able to express their thoughts properly in writing. I think you should include speaking as well…
stevie ray....Clowns to the Left of me Jokers to the Right...here I am...
May 22nd, 2012
12:47 pm
FRED,
Why are you always on a judgmental attack mode? When you start the name calling you are conceding the debate…at least my college professor said so…
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
May 22nd, 2012
12:48 pm
do they serve de-caf at Woodward, mon?
Becky
May 22nd, 2012
12:49 pm
I can picture ole Fred sitting out back behind the double wide with the boys bragging about his little angel learning power point at the big expensive school she goes to. What a big man.
skipper
May 22nd, 2012
12:51 pm
@Jay, (reference to power point)
This child probably IS ABLE TO THINK AND WRITE IN COMPLETE PARAGRAPHS….(as opposed to a large #,like it or not, of the APS ninth-tenth graders being politically correctly shuffled through!)
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
12:53 pm
PJ
May 22nd, 2012
12:45 pm
Fred @12:24 pm
Ok, so I’m asinine but your 2nd grader had to teach you power point.
“Are you marter than a fifth grader…”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yeah, never had to use powerpoint before. I’ve never used GIMP or Photoshop either. Isn’t it great that I’m open minded enough and don’t suffer from ego problems that I am willing to learn from anyone?
Hey guess what PJ? My wife is about to get a MAC Airbook (I think that’s what they are called). My daughter is dying to use it (she WILL be in 5th grade next year). I’ve never worked with the apple OS. My daughter will be able to teach my how to do that as well.
It’s great having an intelligent articulate child with a thirst for knowledge and the ability to pass it on PJ. Apparently if you have children yours are lacking in that department. I’m sorry. But bless their hearts I’m sure they try to move past the monosyllabic words.
And if you don’t have children, look what you have to look forward to. It’s great.