Facebook, patriotism, taxes and fair play
Eduardo Saverin, who became a billionaire as a co-founder of Facebook, has renounced his American citizenship and instead become a citizen of low-tax Singapore.
The decision means that Saverin will save at least $67 million in federal taxes; by some accounts, his long-term tax savings may be several times that much. Naturally, that decision has brought harsh criticism both of Saverin’s opportunism and of existing law that encourages such tax-driven citizenship transfers.
Maybe I’m old-fashioned, but I don’t think of citizenship as something that ought to be so fungible. Just as you don’t run off to Canada to avoid the draft, you don’t run to Singapore to avoid your taxes. You meet your obligations.
But even if that doesn’t bother you, even if you want to judge the situation in strictly business terms, Saverin and others in his situation are taking financial advantage of this country and its citizens. Out of our sense of self-interest, we ought to take steps to defend ourselves.
Under the current system, you can come to the United States and take advantage of all it offers — its legal system, its education system, its markets, its infrastructure, its creativity — and become rich, then flee elsewhere when it comes time to pay taxes on that wealth. In Saverin’s case, he could not have helped to create Facebook had he lived in Singapore at the time, or in his native Brazil. The hugely successful company is an American creation that could only have happened here, on American soil.
Mark Zuckerberg, Saverin’s co-founder and the man with the vision, did not live in Singapore. He grew up in White Plains, N.Y.
Harvard University, where Saverin and Zuckerberg met, does not exist in Singapore, nor does its educational equivalent. Singapore has no history of innovation in software comparable to that of the United States. Singapore did not have the hundreds of thousands of Internet-connected college students who became Facebook’s initial customer base. Perhaps most importantly, with its strict censorship of media outlets, including bloggers and others posting on the Internet, Singapore lacks the free-wheeling creative American spirit that made Facebook possible.
In fact, in its most recent rankings of countries by competitiveness in the IT industry, the Business Software Alliance again ranks the United States as the best place in the world to do business, expanding its large lead from the 2009 rankings. In that ranking, the United States easily outpaces Singapore in every category, from human capital to best business environment to government support for IT industry development.
What Singapore offers, on the other hand, is a haven for capital that is earned elsewhere but transferred to Singapore. It’s a sweet little niche for the city-state of 5.1 million, which is roughly the size of metro Atlanta. The question is whether U.S. law ought to continue to tolerate that arrangement.
Two Democratic senators, Charles Schumer of New York and Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, have proposed legislation to discourage citizenship-shopping for tax purposes. Those who choose that course would pay higher taxes and be barred from returning to this country. House Speaker John Boehner has also expressed support in a general sense, saying it is “absolutely outrageous that somebody would renounce their citizenship to avoid paying taxes.”
However, I have a suspicion that Boehner will soon be backing away from what ought to be a common-sense, patriotic position. The Wall Street Journal editorial board has already come out against Schumer proposal, and many of Boehner’s fellow conservatives are in effect arguing that the United States is simply getting what it deserves for not cutting taxes on the wealthy even lower than they are today. In some eyes, Saverin has even been hailed as a hero for his decision.
And then there’s Grover Norquist, who likened Schumer’s proposal to laws that were passed by Nazi Germany in the 1930s that stripped German Jews of their wealth if they dared to flee the persecution and concentration camps.
“(Schumer) probably just plagiarized it and translated it from the original German,” Norquist told The Hill.
Two final points:
– The caricature of the United States that many conservatives like to draw is simply false. We cannot be a country in which it is possible to create a behemoth such as Facebook and also be a country in which regulation and overtaxation have made it impossible to succeed. Both things cannot be true.
This country continues to draw more foreign investment than any other country on the planet because they know that it is a great place to live and to do business. Last year alone, 3,800 rich foreign investors in effect “bought” their way into the United States by agreeing to invest at least $500,000 in a project that creates American jobs. In return, they got a much-treasured green card.
And according to at least two surveys, more than half of Chinese millionaires are planning to or have already taken steps to leave that country and take up residence elsewhere, with the United States the most popular destination. It was cited almost three times more often than Singapore. None of that supports the conservative condemnation of this country’s business environment.
– We already live in a system in which money flows freely across borders and in which international corporations feel no loyalty to or civic responsibility toward communities or nations. As former ExxonMobil CEO Lee Raymond memorably put it, “I’m not a U.S. company, and I don’t make decisions based on what’s good for the U.S.”
What we’re seeing now is the natural extension of that sentiment, with private citizens placing greater value on money than on country. From a strictly financial and selfish point of view, that’s perhaps understandable. What is less understandable are supposedly patriotic Americans who applaud and celebrate people who chose money over citizenship.
– Jay Bookman
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933 comments Add your comment
Jm
May 22nd, 2012
9:44 am
America has lost it’s mind and it’s way
Throw everyone in prison and borrow until we’re broke seems to be the recipe of the day
Our future looks bleak unless things change
Romney 2012
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
9:44 am
Bro – Oh-well. Guess I’ll have to find a way to cope.
TaxPayer – When I was in college, if you got stuck with the shower that didn’t have a curtain, yeah, there was no expectation of privacy. In the locker rooms at all the gyms I’ve been in, there aren’t curtains there either. Should we start putting in doors and sign-up sheets to only let one person at a time use the locker room shower to satisfy those that aren’t capable of handling someone else seeing them naked?
Milo83
May 22nd, 2012
9:44 am
When our government advocates a policy whereby citizens cannot move about freely without fear of punishment, we have, indeed, become like Nazi Germany.
Recon 0311 2533
May 22nd, 2012
9:44 am
Doggone, makes the point at 9:04 that Clementi was suicidal by nature and other life events could have also brought him to commit suicide. I’m paraphrasing her point but if I got it correct, I completely concur. It’s tragic when someone takes their own life but it’s a decision they make and responsibility for their action shouldn’t be shifted to something or someone else.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
9:45 am
Brosephus — “You must not have gotten the memo. In order to be a “conservative” nowadays, you have to be a mindless, thoughtless zombie that lives off of soundbites and can spit rhetoric forward and in reverse.”
I know; that’s essentially what they told me and that’s largely why I left.
If the GOP could return to the kind of *principled,* thinking and reasoned positions they used to have, I could see myself going back one day. But while it’s still a hotbed of religious fervor with undertones of racism and royalty? Not so much.
As I’ve said before, it was William F. Buckley and his brand of principled argument that first attracted me to conservatism. But when I read an account of a National Review-sponsored cruise and a dinner conversation during which Buckley was described as a doddering old fool who was no longer relevant to the GOP, I knew my days with the Elephant were numbered.
Paul
May 22nd, 2012
9:45 am
(ir)Rational
All they can do is what the law allows.
Either the judge exercised a lot of discretion and gave the guy the low end, or the max wasn’t very much. In either case, just on the basis of the video and distribution (he sent it out to many people) I think he got off way too easy.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
9:45 am
Paul @ 9:42
In order to wage war, you have to know and define your adversary. I guess it helps your chances if you get to define your adversary as opposed to letting them define themselves….
Peter
May 22nd, 2012
9:46 am
America has lost it’s mind and it’s way.. sure has International…….. trying to be the international Police, and invading other countries for oil.. don’t spend any money at home because the rich get pissed.
Mighty Righty
May 22nd, 2012
9:46 am
JamVet
Facts speak for themselves. Even you should be able to understand the difference. While Kenyan as I used it is my opinion, even as we speak there is an ongoing investigation as to whether it may be a fact. It is in fact a fact believed by many.
Jm
May 22nd, 2012
9:46 am
By the way what is this “fair play” crap in jay’s headline
What does he think we’re in? kindergarten?
Apparently many of the liberals are in pre school
Paul
May 22nd, 2012
9:48 am
Milo83
“When our government advocates a policy whereby citizens cannot move about freely without fear of punishment, we have, indeed, become like Nazi Germany.”
I know I’ll regret asking, but what the heck are you talking about?!!?
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
9:48 am
Paul — “Ever notice how many cons have this proclivity for defining others, telling people what they are, what they believe, what a group they disagree with (political economic, religious) really believes, whether the group or person thinks so or not?”
Ohyeah.
I’ve also noticed that billybob brings up things his post-opponent didn’t way or comment on and then makes up opinions that he pastes right on them. It’s as if billybob can’t actually relate to the other humans on here; he’s got to reduce them to stereotypes that don’t or can’t accept any deviation from how he thinks they *ought* to be.
Doggone/GA
May 22nd, 2012
9:48 am
Recon – exactly. Ravi is responsible for what HE did, he is not responsible for what Clementi chose to do about it.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
May 22nd, 2012
9:49 am
“When our government advocates a policy whereby citizens cannot move about freely without fear of punishment,”
What policy might this be?
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
9:50 am
Oh looky. JM went away to be reprogrammed by Boortz and is now back with bumper sticker phrases to regale us all……….
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
9:50 am
Righty — “While Kenyan as I used it is my opinion, even as we speak there is an ongoing investigation as to whether it may be a fact. It is in fact a fact believed by many.”
You seem to have trouble distinguishing between your opinion and an actual fact.
(laughing)
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
May 22nd, 2012
9:50 am
“While Kenyan as I used it is my opinion, even as we speak there is an ongoing investigation as to whether it may be a fact. It is in fact a fact believed by many.”
We laughing @ u, not with you.
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
9:51 am
Mighty Righty – “While Kenyan as I used it is my opinion, even as we speak there is an ongoing investigation as to whether it may be a fact.”
And yet you and the rest of the Justice League of America decided to withold this information until AFTER Obama was elected? What kind of American are you who allows Obama to be elected while all the while holding on to the one piece of key evidence that would have assured a Republican victory?
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
9:51 am
JHM
That’s the conservatism that I can get with myself. When you can factually and logically construct a principle, I can agree with that. However, when you have nothing beyond emotional ranting, that’s not something I can go for.
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
9:51 am
Paul – I think in this particular case, based off the things he was convicted of, he could have gotten up to 10 years. Looking at it that way, 30 days is short, but then again the prosecutor didn’t ask for the maximum. Along with the 30 days, he also got 3 years probation, has to preform 300 hours of community service, and attend court ordered counseling.
Also, if memory serves, him being convicted of what he was convicted of makes a strong case if Clementi’s family decided to bring a wrongful death lawsuit. If that happens, he and his family could stand to lose pretty much everything.
Oscar
May 22nd, 2012
9:51 am
Jm
May 22nd, 2012
9:46 am
___________
I think he means changing citizenship to save money on taxes is not playing fair.
I am from a small town that didn’t have kindergarten so I missed out on that, so can’t respond to your question about that.
Recon 0311 2533
May 22nd, 2012
9:52 am
Jay hasn’t changed the sheets and I’m off to my mid-morning road run. catch y’all later.
Doggone/GA
May 22nd, 2012
9:52 am
“It is in fact a fact believed by many.”
And if millions of people believe the moon is made of green cheese – does that make it a FACT that the moon IS made of green cheese?
Mighty Righty
May 22nd, 2012
9:52 am
In November we will have another opportunity for “Hope and Change”. Don’t blow it. It may be the last chance the people of this country have to remain free.
TaxPayer
May 22nd, 2012
9:53 am
Should we start putting in doors and sign-up sheets to only let one person at a time use the locker room shower to satisfy those that aren’t capable of handling someone else seeing them naked?
Does the answer depend on how many YouTube hits it gets.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
9:53 am
It’s as if billybob can’t actually relate to the other humans on here; he’s got to reduce them to stereotypes that don’t or can’t accept any deviation from how he thinks they *ought* to be.
You sound surprised, why? It’s exactly how Dr. Goebbels taught it should be. First you tell the lies over and over. Then you dehumanize the
gypsies and jewsgroup you wish to defeat. Once they are dehumanized you are able to do anything to them you wish. It’s a tried and true tactic that has worked since the 1930’s when Dr. Goebells first invented it for Adolf………..Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
9:54 am
Mighty Righty – “In November we will have another opportunity for “Hope and Change”. Don’t blow it.It may be the last chance the people of this country have to remain free.”
Don’t worry, we’ll let you know when it’s safe to come out.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
May 22nd, 2012
9:55 am
“In November we will have another opportunity for “Hope and Change”. Don’t blow it. It may be the last chance the people of this country have to remain free.”
THAT”S RIGHT!! WE MUST RE-ELECT PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
9:55 am
TaxPayer – It has nothing to do with posting it on the internet. The criminal act (unless I’m wrong, which is possible) is the filming to begin with. After it is posted, I believe it is in the realm of civil court.
Mighty Righty
May 22nd, 2012
9:56 am
Doggone/GA
“It is in fact a fact believed by many.”
And if millions of people believe the moon is made of green cheese – does that make it a FACT that the moon IS made of green cheese?
Nope,nope. But if it is made of green cheese, ignoring it won’t change the fact. The facts will eventually come out.
Peter
May 22nd, 2012
9:56 am
If a person revokes his citizenship to save on taxes, ban him from ever returning to visit, or tax the heck out of him on each visit…..
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
9:56 am
Brosephus — “That’s the conservatism that I can get with myself. When you can factually and logically construct a principle, I can agree with that. However, when you have nothing beyond emotional ranting, that’s not something I can go for.”
Precisely. For example, they’re acting like deficit spending is a notion that only the devil could come up with. “OBAMA ADDED FIVE TRILLION TO THE DEBT WHAAAAAGAAARBLLL,” they scream. But when you point out that Bush did the *exact same thing* and added $5T to the debt *himself,* they go “deflection” or “that’s different” and it starts to look like their objection is less fact-based and principled — and is instead more emotion-based and opinion-laden.
If it’s wrong to add five trillion to the debt, then great. ACT like it, and turn Bush and Cheney out of the party. Refuse to let them get involved with the Romney campaign or any GOP fundraisers. Develop a plan that ACTUALLY steers us towards a balanced or revenue-positive economy, not the bulldada deficit-spending budget outlines that BOTH Romney and Ryan have been pushing.
In short, be honest, conservatives.
Oscar
May 22nd, 2012
9:57 am
Mighty Righty
May 22nd, 2012
9:52 am
In November we will have another opportunity for “Hope and Change”. Don’t blow it. It may be the last chance the people of this country have to remain free.
____
you are not free now. You have to obey the laws, rules, and regulations, state, local and federal. Just like they do everywhere else..
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
9:57 am
“It may be the last chance the people of this country have to remain free.”
Details please? (and not your opinions/facts, but real details that show our freedoms are being removed from us, and by whom…)
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
May 22nd, 2012
9:58 am
Milo83
May 22nd, 2012
9:44 am
I don’t know…the last time someone came up to me and asked “Papers Please” I handed him my pack of Zig-Zags…
Mighty Righty
May 22nd, 2012
9:58 am
Normal
To each his own. More power to you. You better vote because I damn sure am.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
9:58 am
Fred — “Once they are dehumanized you are able to do anything to them you wish. It’s a tried and true tactic that has worked since the 1930’s when Dr. Goebells first invented it for Adolf………..”
Doesn’t seem to be working so well for our pal billybob, tho, now does it?
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
9:59 am
Mighty Righty – “The facts will eventually come out.”
Still curious as to why the GOP witheld these “facts” when they could have easily used them to defeat Obama in the first go around?
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
9:59 am
“In short, be honest, conservatives.”
Or at least acknowledge the error of your past decisions, lest we be doomed to repeat them…
Doggone/GA
May 22nd, 2012
9:59 am
“But if it is made of green cheese, ignoring it won’t change the fact. The facts will eventually come out”
But if it isn’t made of green cheese, then ignoring it is the only rational response…if the believers cannot be persuaded by the FACTS to change their OPINION.
Fred ™
May 22nd, 2012
9:59 am
In short, be honest, conservatives.
Oh hell that was funny.
Oscar
May 22nd, 2012
9:59 am
Peter
May 22nd, 2012
9:56 am
If a person revokes his citizenship to save on taxes, ban him from ever returning to visit, or tax the heck out of him on each visit…..
__________
Hard to read someone’s mind and prove why he changed citizenship. Don’t need more complicated laws. People have a right to change citizenship when they want. And take their money with them.
JamVet
May 22nd, 2012
10:00 am
It is in fact a fact believed by many.
Psychobabble.
And you left out one key word at the end of that sentence – fools.
But if there was any doubt, there isn’t any now – your respect for the word *fact* is non-existent.
It may be the last chance the people of this country have to remain free.
I am herewith nominating you as a candidate for the Oscar for Best Drama Queen on a Blog”…
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
10:00 am
Normal… heh… zigzags…
Milo83
May 22nd, 2012
10:00 am
Paul@9:48
Two Democratic senators, Charles Schumer of New York and Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, have proposed legislation to discourage citizenship-shopping for tax purposes. Those who choose that course would pay higher taxes and be barred from returning to this country.
That’s what I’m talking about.
Have a pleasant day.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
May 22nd, 2012
10:03 am
Mighty Righty
May 22nd, 2012
9:58 am
Actually I am. In fact, I will continue the tradition that I started when my kids were old enough to understand. We vote as a family unit. Now the grand kids and great grand kids will be there. The “Normal” family ensures there will be another two generations of Social Progressives on the voter list.
Oscar
May 22nd, 2012
10:03 am
o Democratic senators, Charles Schumer of New York and Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, have proposed legislation to discourage citizenship-shopping for tax purposes. Those who choose that course would pay higher taxes and be barred from returning to this country.
________
Don’t think that bill is going to get passed. It should not have been introduced.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
10:04 am
R. W. Troll — “Or at least acknowledge the error of your past decisions, lest we be doomed to repeat them…”
You know, honesty and truthfulness are so rare and novel in Washington that it’d probably attract a passel of votes if they tried it. I think people are pretty hungry for a straight shooter in the mold of Harry Truman or Teddy Roosevelt, regardless of party.
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
10:04 am
I say we take this Svengali fellow’s flag lapel pin… that’ll show him…
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
10:04 am
when I read an account of a National Review-sponsored cruise and a dinner conversation during which Buckley was described as a doddering old fool
JHM, perchance was it this 2007 piece you’d read?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ship-of-fools-johann-hari-sets-sail-with-americas-swashbuckling-neocons-457074.html?printService=print
(Just curious; I could see how reading that at a pivotal time in one’s ideological evolution might influence things.)
Matti
May 22nd, 2012
10:05 am
Spotted at The Forum yesterday: A large SUV with small, neatly-printed white letters on the back window explaining at length how Obama has increased the federal workforce by 30% and we cannot afford him anymore.
What should I have done? The rant was based on false data that would have been easily disputed if I carried a laptop and printer with me in the car. How do you calm the frenzied masses when they put they believe lies? I was torn. Do I wait for this poor soul to come out of the expensive store and explain that this particular panic is unfounded, and “it’s gonna be okay?” But I looked at the hateful bumper stickers and decided to keep moving.
Did I do the right thing?
Mighty Righty
May 22nd, 2012
10:05 am
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
9:57 am
“It may be the last chance the people of this country have to remain free.”
Details please? (and not your opinions/facts, but real details that show our freedoms are being removed from us, and by whom…)
Per your request: I guess you don’t know that the “Affordable Health Care Act” REQUIRES religions to lose their rights to their beliefs which are guaranteed by our constituion. The Supreme Court is studying this NOW! This is a law approved by the Democrat controlled Congress and by president Obama.
You apparently are not aware the
Would you like some others?
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
10:06 am
JHM
Exactly!!! Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Tundra Dude
May 22nd, 2012
10:06 am
“You must not have gotten the memo. In order to be a “conservative” nowadays, you have to be a mindless, thoughtless zombie that lives off of soundbites and can spit rhetoric forward and in reverse.”
I know; that’s essentially what they told me and that’s largely why I left.
———-
That musta been b4 Fox Noise.
Think it was a GE engineer, discovered that habitual tv watching causes the brain to quickly idle in Neutral….allowing all manner of info in,,,,
Or, you weren’t informed of this cuz they suspected you were a closet liberal…?
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
10:06 am
Joe, they had one in 2008… they mucked it up by not vetting thier VP pick, and choosing a hyper partisan, dim witted, anything-but straight shooter…
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
10:07 am
Yes, I asked for details, not biased suppositions…
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
10:08 am
proposed legislation to discourage citizenship-shopping for tax purposes. Those who choose that course would pay higher taxes and be barred from returning to this country.
If someone is citizenship shopping, they don’t really want to be a citizen here anyway. Let them be gone at the earliest point possible. Why let them stay when they don’t want to be here in the first place? That has absolutely nothing to do with allowing citizens to move freely about.
godless heathen
May 22nd, 2012
10:08 am
Speculation is that Zuckerburg chose to get married on the day after the IPO so that the knot was tied at his maximum worth and this could be used to his advantage should things not work out. “I was a gazillionaire when I married the b*tch, now look at me.”
Paul
May 22nd, 2012
10:08 am
Milo83
Whew. For a minute there I thought if I went to the store for a gallon of milk without government permission guys in Nazi uniforms would swoop down and put me in prison.
Double whew.
Thanks.
out for a while
Mick
May 22nd, 2012
10:08 am
jm
The only sand I have is under my feet, you on the other hand are a constant tape loop of a nattering nabob of constant negativism. Dial back twelve years ago, when the talk was how we would be having surplusses into the future, who put us in this mess? Hint: Repub president and repub congress…
Jm
May 22nd, 2012
10:10 am
Colin Powell ditching Obama
Uh oh
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
10:11 am
nattering nabob of constant negativism
Everytime I hear that, it’s funny as hell….
Atlas Shrugging
May 22nd, 2012
10:13 am
What I am more interested in is whether or not Obozo was wearing his funny clown gloves when he bitched slapped Booker…..
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
May 22nd, 2012
10:14 am
Off topic…but poor Newt…
http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20120502/NEWS-US-USA-CAMPAIGN-GINGRICH/?cid=hero_media
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
10:14 am
godless
Good morning. Last line of your 10:08 was good
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
10:14 am
Everytime I hear that, it’s funny as hell….
somewhere Up There, William Safire is smiling.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
10:16 am
SfD, that’s it exactly, but I seem to remember reading it earlier than 2007.
That said, they *do* say that the memory is the first thing to go.
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
10:17 am
Colin Powell ditching Obama
Did somebody threaten him with a vial of baby powder?
Mighty Righty
May 22nd, 2012
10:17 am
Butch Cassidy
FYI
http://www.wnd.com/2012/05/hawaii-five-o-sheriff-joe-sends-detectives-to-honolulu/
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
10:17 am
JHM – Who is this omniscient “they” everyone always speaks of?
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
10:17 am
Mighty Righty – “Would you like some others?”
No, the link to the “facts” will be just fine.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
May 22nd, 2012
10:18 am
Good morning Matti…
I know what you mean. The GOP says “Jobs are our number one priority”, but can’t figure that the Government has the means to put people to work. and all they have to do to pay for it is reduce defense spending and subsidies.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
10:18 am
Righty — “Per your request: I guess you don’t know that the “Affordable Health Care Act” REQUIRES religions to lose their rights to their beliefs which are guaranteed by our constituion.”
Religions don’t have rights. The Constitution grants rights to individuals, not to groups or organizations.
“The Supreme Court is studying this NOW! This is a law approved by the Democrat controlled Congress and by president Obama.”
Seems like you could stand to study it yourself some.
Susan
May 22nd, 2012
10:18 am
Where is any mention of the US having the highest corporate tax rate in the world… Maybe this is the issue that needs to be addresses, not the issue of why a business person would run from such a high rate!
Jm
May 22nd, 2012
10:19 am
Oversimplification
“Dial back twelve years ago, when the talk was how we would be having surplusses into the future, who put us in this mess? Hint: Repub president and repub congress…
Jm
May 22nd, 2012
10:21 am
Amen Susan!
Greece is headed for third world status
Debt is bad
Vite Romney to save the country
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
10:22 am
JHM @ 10:18
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
10:22 am
T. Dude — “Or, you weren’t informed of this cuz they suspected you were a closet liberal…?”
Don’t see how, unless voting for Perot in ‘92 and Browne in 2000 gave me away.
R. W. Troll — “Joe, they had one in 2008… they mucked it up by not vetting thier VP pick, and choosing a hyper partisan, dim witted, anything-but straight shooter…”
McCain actually seemed *embarrassed* by the end of the election, didn’t he? As if he realized what he had (unintentionally) done.
(ir)Rational — “Who is this omniscient “they” everyone always speaks of?”
IMO, it’s the metaphysical Other, leveraged for the speaker’s purposes.
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
10:22 am
Susan
Is that an effective tax rate?
Jm
May 22nd, 2012
10:24 am
Vote not vite
JamVet
May 22nd, 2012
10:24 am
Details please? (and not your opinions/facts, but real details that show our freedoms are being removed from us, and by whom…)
Hysterical, RWT.
You REALLY expect HIM (or billybob or Jm or rags or 71 or recon or scout or Sunkwich or…) to use details??? Verifiable facts, figures, data, evidence and quotes???
That is NOT what our Republicans bloggers do.
They employ the Limbaugh/Hannity/Boortz method.
Sling made up out of thin air shiite, slogans and sound bites and see if any of it sticks!
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
10:25 am
JHM – IMO, it’s the metaphysical Other, leveraged for the speaker’s purposes.
I see. Should I be
highin an altered state of mind to understand that?Oscar
May 22nd, 2012
10:26 am
reece is headed for third world status
Debt is bad
__________
Greek governemnt has always been corrupt, bankrupt and third world. Nothing new. They should never have been admitted to the EU.
All debt is not bad. That’s oversimplification. Borroring money for investment and infrastructure that is spent well will stimulate growth and bring a return on investment. Every businessman knows that.
Don’t throw the good out with the bad.
Oscar
May 22nd, 2012
10:26 am
reece is headed for third world status
Debt is bad
__________
Greek governemnt has always been corrupt, bankrupt and third world. Nothing new. They should never have been admitted to the EU.
All debt is not bad. That’s oversimplification. Borroring money for investment and infrastructure that is spent well will stimulate growth and bring a return on investment. Every businessman knows that.
Don’t throw the good out with the bad.
Jm
May 22nd, 2012
10:27 am
Tbs 10:22 (if I may)
No it’s not. But that’s what is wrong with the tax code, transfers if wealth from companies that don’t get special tax treatment to the ones who do. And the top rate is what drives incremental investment.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
10:28 am
Righty — “http://www.wnd.com/2012/05/hawaii-five-o-sheriff-joe-sends-detectives-to-honolulu/”
It won’t do Arpaio any good. The State of Hawaii’s given its public employees the authority to REFUSE any further demands or requests for Obama’s birth documentation. The documents have been released, the state authorities (including the Republican governor at the time) have vouched for them and Hawaii is sick and tired of mainland buttholes treating them like a bunch of rubes.
IMO, if Arpaio’s guys act like jerks to the Hawaii state employees they come into contact with, then they’ll just call for Security and two big Samoan dudes named Kimo and Sammy will throw them onto the next plane back to the mainland.
Arizona law doesn’t trump Hawaii law and it doesn’t give Arizona authorities any right to make demands of Hawaiian authorities. And I can tell you first hand, as a former resident of the Aloha State, that Hawaiian folks don’t like outsiders coming in and telling them what to do any more than any other Americans do.
Arpaio’s not going to get what he’s after, and he might very well be embarrassed by how this turns out.
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
10:29 am
Mighty Righty – “Butch Cassidy
FYI
http://www.wnd.com/2012/05/hawaii-five-o-sheriff-joe-sends-detectives-to-honolulu/”
I’m convinced. The fact that the GOP could have used this ploy to prevent Obama from being elected in the first place tells me that they are either lazy, or incredibly stupid. Now I just have to decide which one.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
May 22nd, 2012
10:29 am
http://news.icanhascheezburger.com/2012/05/21/political-pictures-mitt-romney-crowd-pleaser/
Joe Hussein Mama
May 22nd, 2012
10:30 am
(ir)Rational — “I see. Should I be in an altered state of mind to understand that?”
No, but a couple of terms worth of Philosophy classes might help.
Mighty Righty
May 22nd, 2012
10:30 am
Gross Federal Debt Debt
FY 2013* $17.5 trillion
FY 2012* $16.4 trillion
FY 2011 $14.8 trillion
FY 2010 $13.5 trillion
FY 2009 $11.9 trillion
FY 2008 $10.0 trillion
Funny how libderals want to compare Clinton to Bush but not Obama to Bush. That is a confession.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
10:30 am
JHM
Also, that statement about religions “losing their rights to their beliefs granted by the (C)onstitution” is comedy gold since it’s coming from the same poster who was lecturing about facts earlier this morning.
stands for decibels
May 22nd, 2012
10:30 am
Master baiting SHEETZ
They BOTH suck
May 22nd, 2012
10:31 am
Jm
Thanks for the reply. I hear you, however it is disingenuous to just throw out that the US has the top corporate tax rate without speaking of the average effective rate?
I doubt “Susan” didn’t take advantage of whatever deductions that were available to her. Corporate America doesn’t pass them by either
Doggone/GA
May 22nd, 2012
10:32 am
“Arpaio’s not going to get what he’s after, and he might very well be embarrassed by how this turns out”
On this I think you’re wrong. I don’t think it’s POSSIBLE to emabarrass that guy.
Oscar
May 22nd, 2012
10:32 am
The fact that the GOP could have used this ploy to prevent Obama from being elected in the first place tells me that they are either lazy, or incredibly stupid. Now I just have to decide which one
________
That’s not a fact. That’s a magic dreasm. With McCain and Palin as the nominee’s, nothing they could have done would have worked. Only thing that might have beaten Obama would have been better candidates. but then, it would not have been the GOP.
Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!
May 22nd, 2012
10:32 am
Butch Cassidy
May 22nd, 2012
10:29 am
Sheriff Joe probably sent those detectives to Hawaii just so he could mess with their wives…
Rightwing Troll
May 22nd, 2012
10:33 am
It’s nice to know the great state of Arizona has the funds to send some PI’s on an all expenses paid trip to the islands..
(ir)Rational
May 22nd, 2012
10:34 am
JHM – I’m not sure they had those at Tech. Well, the probably did, but I stayed away from that building.
Brosephus™
May 22nd, 2012
10:34 am
Master baiting SHEETZ
Mighty Righty
May 22nd, 2012
10:35 am
Butch Cassidy
It just never occurred to us that the people of this coiuntry was so stupid as to elect someone who knew so little, had no experience, gave up his Bar Membership rather than submit to an investigation, campaigned as a socialist and whose main campaign theme was just dumb. We still can’t believe it.