Facebook, patriotism, taxes and fair play

Eduardo Saverin, who became a billionaire as a co-founder of Facebook, has renounced his American citizenship and instead become a citizen of low-tax Singapore.

The decision means that Saverin will save at least $67 million in federal taxes; by some accounts, his long-term tax savings may be several times that much. Naturally, that decision has brought harsh criticism both of Saverin’s opportunism and of existing law that encourages such tax-driven citizenship transfers.

Maybe I’m old-fashioned, but I don’t think of citizenship as something that ought to be so fungible. Just as you don’t run off to Canada to avoid the draft, you don’t run to Singapore to avoid your taxes. You meet your obligations.

But even if that doesn’t bother you, even if you want to judge the situation in strictly business terms, Saverin and others in his situation are taking financial advantage of this country and its citizens. Out of our sense of self-interest, we ought to take steps to defend ourselves.

Under the current system, you can come to the United States and take advantage of all it offers — its legal system, its education system, its markets, its infrastructure, its creativity — and become rich, then flee elsewhere when it comes time to pay taxes on that wealth. In Saverin’s case, he could not have helped to create Facebook had he lived in Singapore at the time, or in his native Brazil. The hugely successful company is an American creation that could only have happened here, on American soil.

Mark Zuckerberg, Saverin’s co-founder and the man with the vision, did not live in Singapore. He grew up in White Plains, N.Y.

Harvard University, where Saverin and Zuckerberg met, does not exist in Singapore, nor does its educational equivalent. Singapore has no history of innovation in software comparable to that of the United States. Singapore did not have the hundreds of thousands of Internet-connected college students who became Facebook’s initial customer base. Perhaps most importantly, with its strict censorship of media outlets, including bloggers and others posting on the Internet, Singapore lacks the free-wheeling creative American spirit that made Facebook possible.

In fact, in its most recent rankings of countries by competitiveness in the IT industry, the Business Software Alliance again ranks the United States as the best place in the world to do business, expanding its large lead from the 2009 rankings. In that ranking, the United States easily outpaces Singapore in every category, from human capital to best business environment to government support for IT industry development.

What Singapore offers, on the other hand, is a haven for capital that is earned elsewhere but transferred to Singapore. It’s a sweet little niche for the city-state of 5.1 million, which is roughly the size of metro Atlanta. The question is whether U.S. law ought to continue to tolerate that arrangement.

Two Democratic senators, Charles Schumer of New York and Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, have proposed legislation to discourage citizenship-shopping for tax purposes. Those who choose that course would pay higher taxes and be barred from returning to this country. House Speaker John Boehner has also expressed support in a general sense, saying it is “absolutely outrageous that somebody would renounce their citizenship to avoid paying taxes.”

However, I have a suspicion that Boehner will soon be backing away from what ought to be a common-sense, patriotic position. The Wall Street Journal editorial board has already come out against Schumer proposal, and many of Boehner’s fellow conservatives are in effect arguing that the United States is simply getting what it deserves for not cutting taxes on the wealthy even lower than they are today. In some eyes, Saverin has even been hailed as a hero for his decision.

And then there’s Grover Norquist, who likened Schumer’s proposal to laws that were passed by Nazi Germany in the 1930s that stripped German Jews of their wealth if they dared to flee the persecution and concentration camps.

“(Schumer) probably just plagiarized it and translated it from the original German,” Norquist told The Hill.

Two final points:

– The caricature of the United States that many conservatives like to draw is simply false. We cannot be a country in which it is possible to create a behemoth such as Facebook and also be a country in which regulation and overtaxation have made it impossible to succeed. Both things cannot be true.

This country continues to draw more foreign investment than any other country on the planet because they know that it is a great place to live and to do business. Last year alone, 3,800 rich foreign investors in effect “bought” their way into the United States by agreeing to invest at least $500,000 in a project that creates American jobs. In return, they got a much-treasured green card.

And according to at least two surveys, more than half of Chinese millionaires are planning to or have already taken steps to leave that country and take up residence elsewhere, with the United States the most popular destination. It was cited almost three times more often than Singapore. None of that supports the conservative condemnation of this country’s business environment.

– We already live in a system in which money flows freely across borders and in which international corporations feel no loyalty to or civic responsibility toward communities or nations. As former ExxonMobil CEO Lee Raymond memorably put it, “I’m not a U.S. company, and I don’t make decisions based on what’s good for the U.S.”

What we’re seeing now is the natural extension of that sentiment, with private citizens placing greater value on money than on country. From a strictly financial and selfish point of view, that’s perhaps understandable. What is less understandable are supposedly patriotic Americans who applaud and celebrate people who chose money over citizenship.

– Jay Bookman

933 comments Add your comment

JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG

May 21st, 2012
1:31 pm

1st………..

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

May 21st, 2012
1:37 pm

The caricature of the United States that many conservatives like to draw is simply false. We cannot be a country in which it is possible to create a behemoth such as Facebook and also be a country in which regulation and overtaxation have made it impossible to succeed. Both things cannot be true.

But…but…but…SOCIALISM!

Mick

May 21st, 2012
1:38 pm

Nice column with a fair point of view, I agree. Money, how much is enough? Can’t take it with when you depart this earthly plane, why let it consume your life???

Adam

May 21st, 2012
1:38 pm

As former ExxonMobil CEO Lee Raymond memorably put it, “I’m not a U.S. company, and I don’t make decisions based on what’s good for the U.S.”

They must have changed their minds recently, although I suspect it has to do with a lack of qualified worker availability in the U.S…. I’m not the only one who has seen Exxon’s push to improve education commercials have I?

getalife

May 21st, 2012
1:38 pm

He was a jerk in the movie but his girlfriend was hilarious.

There is no patriotism from the right.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

May 21st, 2012
1:39 pm

Also, WEALTH ENVY!

Thought I’d get that out of the way early, too.

JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG

May 21st, 2012
1:39 pm

Grover Norquist………….nuff said

Adam

May 21st, 2012
1:40 pm

In fact, in its most recent rankings of countries by competitiveness in the IT industry, the Business Software Alliance again ranks the United States as the best place in the world to do business

Well isn’t that innnnnnteresting…..

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

May 21st, 2012
1:41 pm

Yeah, I quit using Facebook when I read that. I wish I knew how to completely delete my page from the system, but for now i just refuse to go there and I answer no comments I receive in my email. When did paying your fair share to Uncle Sam become non patriotic?

Paul

May 21st, 2012
1:41 pm

According to Forbes, Saverin is worth $2 Billion. He’s taking this move to avoid less than $100 million in taxes? That answers the question ‘how much is enough?” To these greedy little venal weasels, it’s never enough.

Pass the legislation, do it quickly and make these selfish traitors give back to the country that gave them so much.

“The caricature of the United States that many conservatives like to draw is simply false. We cannot be a country in which it is possible to create a behemoth such as Facebook and also be a country in which regulation and overtaxation have made it impossible to succeed. Both things cannot be true.”

Many Republicans are schizophrenic. That’s the only plausible explanation.

TaxPayer

May 21st, 2012
1:41 pm

In other words, the Republican position is that if we did not make the wealthiest pay taxes, they’d have no reason to leave. :roll: What next! Will we be required, via the next iteration of fairness wrought on us by the Republicans, to pay the wealthiest to leave once we grow weary enough of their milking the system for all it’s worth.

1811/0311

May 21st, 2012
1:42 pm

So let me get this straight:

It’s o.k. to come here illegally and cost U.S. taxpayers thousands of dollars but it’s not o.k. to leave here legally if you feel you are being unfairly taxed ?

BTW: Just for the record, more Candaian citizens came to the U.S. and enlisted in our armed forces than U.S. citizens who fled to Canada to avoid the draft.

Carter gave them amnesty and let them come back. Never should have happened !!!

Mike

May 21st, 2012
1:42 pm

Yes, it is shameful what this guy is doing.
It is also a shame we have a system that takes so much of our money through taxation. When the government thinks they are entitled to 25-35%, this is what we will see happen more and more.

1811/0311

May 21st, 2012
1:42 pm

Excuse me: “Canadian”

Jason

May 21st, 2012
1:43 pm

What’s crazy to me is that if you have billions, what’s an extra $67 million either way?

getalife

May 21st, 2012
1:44 pm

The idea that the wealthy pay nothing for the collapse is ridiculous.

The world agrees but not the gop.

All they care about is not taxing the rich.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

May 21st, 2012
1:44 pm

When the government thinks they are entitled to 25-35%…

There’s your sign

jm

May 21st, 2012
1:45 pm

this whole column is sick and backwards

he already pays a huge exit penalty. what more do you want from the guy?

instead, maybe you should be considering penalties that make it attractive to stay here instead of the nightmare wealthy people and expats face, which is why 1,800 people renounced their citizenship, up 3 fold since Obama took office

They BOTH suck

May 21st, 2012
1:45 pm

Good for him on a financial level, however he is a punk. He wants his cake and wants to eat it too; plain and simple.

And no I would not renounce my US citizenship for 67 million dollars

Paul

May 21st, 2012
1:46 pm

Jay

Just posted your entire piece on Facebook. Hope you don’t mind. It’s like the third post I’ve done in the years I’ve been on Facebook.

Adam

May 21st, 2012
1:46 pm

Scout: Of course as you see it, this story is somehow equatable to illegal immigration.

I’ll give you two hints to help you understand why the current story is abuse of the U.S. taxpayer system:
1) This has nothing to do with illegal immigration, therefore any correlation drawn is fallacious. Rethink your argument without adding in illegal immigration.
2) Read the article.

JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG

May 21st, 2012
1:47 pm

“1,800 people renounced their citizenship, up 3 fold since Obama took office”

Great….good riddance!

Common Sense

May 21st, 2012
1:47 pm

So on the one hand you feel that citizenship shoupd pretty much be given out to anyone that crosses the border and happens to be birthed here.

And on the other hand, those that leave here can never escape it.

jm

May 21st, 2012
1:47 pm

“Two Democratic senators, Charles Schumer of New York and Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, have proposed legislation to discourage citizenship-shopping for tax purposes. ”

Stupid people. I guess we won’t be able to let anyone immigrate from Japan then.

Normal Free...Pro Human Rights Thug...And liking it!

May 21st, 2012
1:47 pm

Paul @ 1:41…

Well said.

jm

May 21st, 2012
1:47 pm

No one from Europe will be able to immigrate here either. Sicko liberals.

JamVet

May 21st, 2012
1:48 pm

It’s o.k. to come here illegally and cost U.S. taxpayers thousands of dollars but it’s not o.k. to leave here legally if you feel you are being unfairly taxed ?

Corporal, if you were to ever get paid for all of the logical fallacies that you had written here, you might be considering denouncing your US citizenship!

This spoon fed coward is a despicable man. Plain and simple.

And I agree, pass a law that precludes him from ever setting foot in this nation again.

Good riddance to bad trash…

Doggone/GA

May 21st, 2012
1:48 pm

“When the government thinks they are entitled to 25-35%, this is what we will see happen more and more”

Yep…just like we did when the top tax rate was 90%. Geez, the rich just left in droves back then, didn’t they?

Mick

May 21st, 2012
1:49 pm

jm

So, when are you catching the next plane to singapore? You can tag along with mr. moneybags, only you’re just a wannabe…
ps – don’t do anything to get caned…

Adam

May 21st, 2012
1:49 pm

So on the one hand you feel that citizenship shoupd pretty much be given out to anyone that crosses the border and happens to be birthed here.

Second time, first page. I am thinking this is on the right wing talking point blogosphere.

jm

May 21st, 2012
1:49 pm

“We cannot be a country in which it is possible to create a behemoth such as Facebook and also be a country in which regulation and overtaxation have made it impossible to succeed.”

Yes we can. Software and IT are the only industry that is largely immune from major oversight and excessive regulation, because it is a comparatively new industry. Every other industry is buried under regulation and small business owners are drowning under regulations.

Adam

May 21st, 2012
1:50 pm

Software and IT are the only industry that is largely immune from major oversight and excessive regulation

AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAA

If only you knew what I had to dealw ith. Jeez the ignorance, it burns….

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

May 21st, 2012
1:51 pm

Yep…just like we did when the top tax rate was 90%. Geez, the rich just left in droves back then, didn’t they?

Don’t forget — they whined incessantly about it, too.

They BOTH suck

May 21st, 2012
1:52 pm

If the $hit ever hits the fan worldwide and those who have renounced their citizenship, should either be told to go back to their new country if they are in the US or told they can not come to the US……

Wont happen, but that is my thoughts on the issue

Paul

May 21st, 2012
1:53 pm

Mike

“. When the government thinks they are entitled to 25-35%, this is what we will see happen more and more.”

2009 average effective tax rate (Tax Foundation) is 11%.

Average effective rate for those earning a million or more (adjusted gross income, that’s after deductions) is 25%.

And it’s not ‘the government feels entitled…”

It’s the citizens who have voted for representatives who’ve decided the services they want. Problem is, they don’t want to pay the taxes to cover the cost of the services.

TaxPayer

May 21st, 2012
1:53 pm

The sophistication of federal lawmakers’ speech patterns is on the decline, with members of Congress now talking, on average, at the level of high school sophomores. According to a new report by the Sunlight Foundation, Congress has fallen by almost a full grade-level since 2005.

The members speaking at the lowest grade levels tend to be freshmen Republicans.

That’s hardly a revelation. Then again, I do expect to hear a hearty round of “I Object” and “You Lie” from members of a certainly distraught party any moment now. :lol:

jm

May 21st, 2012
1:54 pm

“3,800 rich foreign investors in effect “bought” their way into the United States by agreeing to invest at least $500,000 in a project that creates American jobs.”

liberals arguing we should throw these people in jail or tell them no go away is sick in the head

They BOTH suck

May 21st, 2012
1:54 pm

Mick @ 1:49

Amen………… Lots of talk, not too much walk

Jay

May 21st, 2012
1:55 pm

Yeah, when you let money dictate things like this, you are no longer in control of money, your money is in control of you.

jm

May 21st, 2012
1:55 pm

“And according to at least two surveys, more than half of Chinese millionaires are planning to or have already taken steps to leave that country and take up residence elsewhere, with the United States the most popular destination.”

Maybe they’re avoiding taxes. China better tell them no and throw them in the gulag like Schumer and liberals want to do.

SP

May 21st, 2012
1:57 pm

To be fair- you forgot to mention that he has been living and working in Singapore for the past 3 years and he had to pay a 15% exit fee.

“I am obligated to and will pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes to the United States government. I have paid and will continue to pay any taxes due on everything I earned while a U.S. citizen.” – Eduardo Saverin

Sounds to me maybe we should up the exit fee and run all the rich folk out of town so we can finally get all of their money…

jm

May 21st, 2012
1:57 pm

“your money is in control of you”

there are many wonderful places in the world. The US doesn’t have a monopoly.

Thomas

May 21st, 2012
1:57 pm

Can’t follow your point in this rambling blog other than someone appears to have gotten under your skin. Schumber similarly had a nonsensical child like rambling- basic statement was “someone stole my coookies”

Schumer called Saverin’s actions “outrageous.”

“Saverin has turned his back on the country that welcomed him and kept him safe, educated him and helped him become a billionaire,” Schumer said.

Casey called Saverin’s plan an “insult to the American people” that “cries out for some basic justice.”

Where was the similar outrage for the liberal icon Buffett who mitigated billions of taxes by paying millions of dollars to high power attorneys to donate his Berkshire stock to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation thus evading income and estate taxes?

What next Bookman- keep Americans from traveling abroad as why would anyone leave this great country of ours and spend “your” monies in another country

Bottom line- the far left favors modern day slavery. Freedom allows folks and institutions to live and conduct their business and personal affairs within the laws of the country. You pay an “exit” tax on renouncing citizenship based on the FMV of your “stuff”. SAVERIN DID THE SAME THING THAT BUFFETT DID

They BOTH suck

May 21st, 2012
1:57 pm

“liberals arguing we should throw these people in jail or tell them no go away is sick in the head”

Dude, for a guy who appears to be intelligent at times, you sure love to broad stroke along as well as spout talking pts, hyperbole and rhetoric………..

But maybe that is who you are. All the smarts on certain issues doesn’t always equate to common sense.

TaxPayer

May 21st, 2012
1:58 pm

And to think that if jm’s overseas plans had not fallen through, he could have been hobnobbing with that Facebook fellow in Singapore. Alas! It just wasn’t meant to be. Sigh!

Liberal is NOT left enough

May 21st, 2012
1:58 pm

We need to start confiscating the wealth of these Robber Barrons. If the govt does it to a couple of these rich folks, the rest will fall in line

Midori

May 21st, 2012
1:59 pm

Maybe I’m old-fashioned, but I don’t think of citizenship as something that ought to be so fungible. Just as you don’t run off to Canada to avoid the draft, you don’t run to Singapore to avoid your taxes. You meet your obligations.

and Kent Brockman will be there to greet our new ant overlords……..

This entire affair is beyone disgusting.

And the GOP will probably nominate him for The Medal of FREE-DUMB

They BOTH suck

May 21st, 2012
2:00 pm

jm

Bye. You have talked ad nauseam about this place and that place. Go save your money and enjoy………..

YOU ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE

blah, blah, blah

As I said two posts ago…….. lots of talk, not much walk

Jm

May 21st, 2012
2:00 pm

Mick I escaped high tax GA for FL; it’s a start

Liberals being anti freedom and anti open society

Just absolutely sick

Mick

May 21st, 2012
2:00 pm

jm

Is money your god? Seems like that is your primary concern, even though when you break it down, one billion is ten hundred million. Renounce your citizenship because of 67 million in tax? What a smendrick, thats just silly…

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

May 21st, 2012
2:01 pm

there are many wonderful places in the world.

Galt’s Gulch.

Delta is ready when you are.

JamVet

May 21st, 2012
2:02 pm

Only the most depraved of our neocons admire this guy and his shameless cowardice.

But to compare this disloyal defector to Warren Buffett?

That is just plain demented.

But not unpredictable. Given that this same person compared Elizabeth Warren with Dick Cheney…

TM

May 21st, 2012
2:04 pm

Here is a business man who weighed the costs of US citizenship and decided that it was worth the costs. He clearly did not think much of the benefits. What exactly does he lose by doing this? I assume he can no longer enter the country without a visa, can,t vote, can be deported if he commits a crime. Hoe did his citizenship make his money?

Real Scootter

May 21st, 2012
2:05 pm

What next! Will we be required, via the next iteration of fairness wrought on us by the Republicans, to pay the wealthiest to leave once we grow weary enough of their milking the system for all it’s worth.

Hey Taxpayer,substitute Reps with Dems and then wealthiest with poorest and you have the other side of the coin. IMHO

JamVet

May 21st, 2012
2:05 pm

Yet another example of how the neocons have become America’s anti-patriots.

And why I am heavily invested in getting them to the size where we can drown them in a bathtub…

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

May 21st, 2012
2:06 pm

Saverin?

I can only hope he spits out his chewing gum on a Singapore street
in front of a policeman.

He’s a louse.

TaxPayer

May 21st, 2012
2:06 pm

It seems as though it were only yesterday when loyal Republicans such as Palin and Limbaugh and Hannity, et al, were instructing the nation on the composition of a true patriot. Let’s see, I think it was someone consisting of 99% tax cuts and 1% upper crust or something like that.

Jefferson

May 21st, 2012
2:10 pm

A tool by another name.

JamVet

May 21st, 2012
2:10 pm

But there is good news. VERY good news…

GOP problem: ‘Their voters are white, aging and dying off’

“There will come a time when they suffer catastrophic losses with the realization of the population changes.”

Over the next several generations, the wave of minority voters — who, according to U.S. Census figures released this week, now represent more than half of the nation’s population born in the past year — will become more of a power base in places like Alabama, Mississippi and Georgia. That hold will extend across the Southwest all the way to California, experts say.

The coming political revolution could result in a massive changing of the guard on nearly every level of government, potential cultural clashes, and the type of political alliances that are now considered rare.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/21/politics/gop-census-latino/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

And because the neocons would rather soak their dicks in gasoline and light them on fire rather than to let go of their irrational intolerance and broaden their appeal to other groups of Americans, they are gonna fall prey to the political version of the theory of one of the men that they despise most – Charles Darwin!

Oh, the delicious irony…

Jm

May 21st, 2012
2:11 pm

Mick
Of course money isn’t my god

But I respect the right of people to do as they please

And if they’re unhappy here for ine reason or another, they have the right to leave without being crucified and stripped of all their possessions

Communist states do that

Not America

Bill Orvis White

May 21st, 2012
2:11 pm

The main true point is right here: “…the United States is simply getting what it deserves for not cutting taxes on the wealthy even lower than they are today. In some eyes, Saverin has even been hailed as a hero for his decision.”

Corporations are sick and tired of high taxes and regulations, so they move to Mexico, China, India and even Singapore to rightfully make a profit. The guy would stay here if Hairy Reid would just get off this guy’s back, FOR GOD’S SAKE!

This reminds me of the time that John F-ing Kerry tried to be president by telling everyone how much of a patriotic he is even though he hung out with Hanoi Jane, let his fellow soldiers get shot up and threw his medals over the White House fence. Spare me that fake patriotism, Liberal Jay. I’m tired of these Socialist-Democrat party members trying to say that they love America when they spit on our military and Constitution. It is a fact that ALL members of that left-wing Socialist/Communist organization hates freedom. End of story. Good night.

Amen,
Bill

TaxPayer

May 21st, 2012
2:11 pm

Hey Taxpayer,substitute Reps with Dems and then wealthiest with poorest and you have the other side of the coin. IMHO

I know, Real Scootter. Poor people are such a drag on society. Never carrying their own weight. Always looking for handouts. Heck! They probably don’t even pay their fair share of taxes. IMMST (In My Most Sarcastic Tone)

JamVet

May 21st, 2012
2:12 pm

(ir)Rational

May 21st, 2012
2:12 pm

While I don’t agree with him leaving to escape taxes, I’m surprised (well, not really) by the amount of people questioning his patriotism. He wasn’t born an American, and had only been a citizen here for 12 or so years. Also, he has lived in Singapore since 2009. If you read his bio though, this move shouldn’t surprise you.

(ir)Rational

May 21st, 2012
2:15 pm

JamVet – That’s pretty freakin cool.

Jefferson

May 21st, 2012
2:15 pm

He can move, after he pays his taxes. Better hold that account in case he tries something stupid.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

May 21st, 2012
2:15 pm

It is a fact that ALL members of that left-wing Socialist/Communist organization hates freedom.

It is a fact that I’ll be driving in the Indy 500 later this month.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

May 21st, 2012
2:16 pm

I see facebook stock has dropped 11%….and the day of the IPO the price had to be propped up by the underwriters.

Something fishy I wonder?

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

May 21st, 2012
2:16 pm

Grover and Jonah Goldberg are the idiot twins of the right.

Liberal is NOT left enough

May 21st, 2012
2:18 pm

Jam

And why I am heavily invested in getting them to the size where we can drown them in a bathtub…

That’s too good. They need to suffer in jail for their crimes. We can start by throwing all the Rethuglicans in jail for not supporting the greatest President in our history. That teacher in NC was right. Speak ill of our wonderful President, and you should serve time.

lol, I’d love to see them in prison dealing with the poor people that they have been wrongly convicting all these years

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

May 21st, 2012
2:18 pm

Grover Norquist
Jonah Goldberg

Get a tattoo of each of their faces on separate butt cheeks. That way if you ever go to jail you might have a better chance of avoiding…

Recon 0311 2533

May 21st, 2012
2:20 pm

Singapore has a goods and services tax or GST, similar to a VAT tax. They introduced it back in the early 90’s. They reduced corporate rates and personal income tax rates. So now they’ve reduced rates and offset it with a consumption tax which all income groups pay.

Scott Hodge

May 21st, 2012
2:21 pm

Between 2000 and 2010, more than 171,000 taxpayers renounced their Georgia citizenship and moved to Florida, takng with them more than $9.8 billion worth of income. No doubt many of these people moved to Florida to take advantage of the fact that the state has no individual income tax and no estate tax. Would Bookman require these folks to pay an “exit tax” to leave Georgia or prevent them from leaving the state altogether?

Why is the freedom to move from one state to another for tax reasons any different from the freedom to move to another country for tax reasons?

mm

May 21st, 2012
2:25 pm

Well, if the GOP sides with the ignorant cons on this blog, you can kiss their butts goodbye in November.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

May 21st, 2012
2:25 pm

Why is the freedom to move from one state to another for tax reasons any different from the freedom to move to another country for tax reasons?

Why are we beset by a plethora of false equivalencies today?

Real Scootter

May 21st, 2012
2:26 pm

TaxPayer

May 21st, 2012
2:11 pm

I was trying to make a point Taxpayer (and I know I’m not good at it).

We need to do something about people milking our system wheather they be rich or poor.

They BOTH suck

May 21st, 2012
2:28 pm

ir(rational)

Why wouldn’t anyone question his patriotism? After all I believe he had to answer the following question when he took the test to become a citizen. If he had renounced last yr or after the IPO another story……….. Guess we just see it different

In order to become a naturalized citizenn of the US, a person must take an oath making these promises:

1) to support the Constitution of the United States;

2) to renounce and abjure absolutely and entirely all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereigntyof whom or which the applicant was before a subject or citizen;

3) to support and defend the Constitution and the laws of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;

4) to bear true faith ad allegiance to the same; and

5) to bear arms on behalf of the US when reqwuired by law or to perform non-combatantservice in the Armed Forces of the US when required by law or to perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law.

See Title 8 Section 1448(a) of the United States Code

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_promises_do_you_make_when_you_become_a_naturalized_citizen_of_the_US#ixzz1vWvfYfkU

244 more days

May 21st, 2012
2:28 pm

Kammy,
You are the first to mention WEALTH ENVEY, could it be that you feel that way yourself, sounds like it.
Now just so you don’t insinuate that all Republicans feel this way, I happen to agree with Jay on this issue. As do most all real Americans. I have been to Singapore, all I can say is for the young man to make sure his hair is cut shorter and don’t spit in public, and when it comes time to go back to the USA, no deal…do not let him back, it’s his choice, let him live with it..

(ir)Rational

May 21st, 2012
2:28 pm

Kam – Honest question, exactly how is it a false equivalency? If I move from Georgia to Florida or Texas to lower my tax burden, or better yet to Washington just across from Oregon (Washington = no income tax, Oregon = low/no sales tax) to lower my tax revenue, I’m “depriving” Georgia from the money they could have taken from me in taxes. If I move from the US to somewhere else, I’m doing the same thing. Or am I missing something?

ByteMe - Political thug

May 21st, 2012
2:29 pm

Mick I escaped high tax GA for FL; it’s a start

I’m about to buy a short-term rental property in Florida. Here are the taxes I’ll need to pay:

I’ll have to pay for a sales tax number (it’s free here)
I’ll have to pay for a tourist tax number
I’ll have to pay to run a restaurant/hotel (seriously??)
I’ll have to pay outrageously high property taxes
I’ll have to pay for a state business license
I’ll have to pay more to create and maintain an LLC there (which costs a lot more than here)
I’ll have to pay a hurricane surcharge on the insurance along with a hurricane deductible
I’ll have to travel on several toll roads to get there

It’s NOT cheaper to be there… there’s just no income tax.

Real Scootter

May 21st, 2012
2:29 pm

Check this photo out

That’s awesome JamVet! Best one I’ve seen.

Jm

May 21st, 2012
2:29 pm

“And if they’re unhappy here for ine reason or another, they have the right to leave without being crucified and stripped of all their possessions

Communist states do that

Not America”

I misspoke. I guess America does do that. Sad.

ByteMe - Political thug

May 21st, 2012
2:30 pm

And why would anyone name their child after a Muppet?? What’s next, “Cookie Monster Norquist”?

They BOTH suck

May 21st, 2012
2:30 pm

244 more days @ 2:28

Great post

mm

May 21st, 2012
2:30 pm

“substitute Reps with Dems and then wealthiest with poorest and you have the other side of the coin. IMHO”

Just wow! Why just yesterday I saw a poor person walking down the street with a wheelbarow full of cash.

Jay

May 21st, 2012
2:31 pm

Scott Hodge, for some reason you neglect to mention how many people moved the other way, from Florida to Georgia?

I don’t have numbers for the entire decade, but I do have Census numbers for 2010, the most recent I could find:

Florida to Georgia (49,901)

Georgia to Florida (35,615)

In other words, net flow was toward Georgia and out of Florida, which leaves your entire argument in shambles.

ByteMe - Political thug

May 21st, 2012
2:32 pm

Why just yesterday I saw a poor person walking down the street with a wheelbarow full of cash.

Those were food stamps. They look similar, doncha know?

The Anti-Gnostic

May 21st, 2012
2:32 pm

Jay:

The millions of immigrants who leave their countries and come here solely for economic reasons have made the same cost-benefit analysis as Mr. Saverin. That’s what happens when you have a propositional nation: it’s just where you happen to live and pay taxes. If somebody else can offer you a better deal, you leave. In this instance, you’re just sorry Mr. Saverin is no longer fodder for the US government tax farm.

The US is not an ethnic or credal nation-state like Israel, or the Arab Emirates. The US is just where you live and worthy of no particular loyalty. By contrast, your nation is your ethnic/credal group, and you wear that team’s jersey wherever you go. So it should come as no surprise that people value their individual/family loyalties more highly than they do their loyalty to the US proposition.

TaxPayer

May 21st, 2012
2:32 pm

Why did Caterpillar and Kia, etc., decide to build here as opposed to some other state? Because Georgia’s “leaders” were willing to pay top taxpayer dollar for those jobs. I’d be willing to bet that if Georgia were to pay that Severin dude more than what he would lose in Fed taxes by leaving, they could actually get him to stay here and then Georgia could collect untold sums of taxes from all the groundskeepers the guy might hire. It’s a win-win!

Doggone/GA

May 21st, 2012
2:33 pm

“by the amount of people questioning his patriotism. He wasn’t born an American, and had only been a citizen here for 12 or so years”

he swore allegiance to this country. We now see just how much faith to put in his sworn word. He might just as well have sworn allegiance to money and left it at that.

They BOTH suck

May 21st, 2012
2:33 pm

Jm

Just as an individual has a right to renounce their citizenship……. Others have a right to speak out against it

You are for freedom of speech, correct?

(ir)Rational

May 21st, 2012
2:33 pm

TBS – He was 16, and, if I remember what I read correctly was still a citizen of Brazil at the time (held dual citizenship). I understand what he had to do to become a US citizen, but at 16, he probably didn’t have a lot of say in the matter. That’s basically my point. And like I said, if you read about him, you kind of expect moves like this, considering he used his ties in Brazil to pull some insider trading (not illegal/as illegal there as here) and make a bundle while in college.

Jm

May 21st, 2012
2:34 pm

Scott hodge good question

Byteme – your problem not mine. Your individual experience in FL may vary. Mine, I save about $10k a year.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

May 21st, 2012
2:34 pm

You are the first to mention WEALTH ENVEY[sic], could it be that you feel that way yourself

Nope.

sounds like it.

There are meds for voices in the head.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Honest question, exactly how is it a false equivalency?

If one moves from Ga. to Fla. one doesn’t have to renounce one’s U.S. citizenship.

There is more to this story than just money.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

May 21st, 2012
2:34 pm

jay

BREAK DOWN YOUR NUMBERS

did 35,615 high income earners move to Florida while 49,901 low income earners move to Georgia??????

slip

May 21st, 2012
2:34 pm

wealth or no wealth, if you renounce US Citizenship, you should also be denied a reentry visa for at least five years.

They BOTH suck

May 21st, 2012
2:35 pm

The Anti-Gnostic

May 21st, 2012
2:32 pm

I see your point, but then they need not become a citizen of the US. See the oath they must take to become one.

Thulsa Doom

May 21st, 2012
2:36 pm

Well goodbye to the ingrate. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out of the country.

Still not sure that I would want to change U.S. law as a knee jerk reaction to one ingrate. The law of unintended consequences could come into play. One of the links above goes into the Sarbanes-Oxley act and the end result of that is that we now lose lots of start up and IPO business to western European and Asian nations which are more tax and business friendly.

This guy is just an ingrate and the 67 million in taxes is but a pittance of the 2 billion he earned. Nevertheless though its a fact that capital including human capital will flee international borders to sites and havens more tax friendly and more conducive to doing business. That’s nothing new. Its an economic reality that’s been going on for awhile now and will continue to do so.

mm

May 21st, 2012
2:36 pm

The cons have “poor envy”.

They BOTH suck

May 21st, 2012
2:36 pm

ir(rational)

He took the oath. Plain and simple