Job growth an anemic 115,000; jobless rate ticks down

The American economy added a lackluster 115,000 jobs in April, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The unemployment rate dropped to 8.1 percent.

The only good news in the report is that job estimates for previous months were revised upward, meaning more jobs had been created than initially thought.

For example, the initial March release reported 120,000 jobs created; the revised figure is 154,000.

The February number, originally reported at 227,000, has been revised upward twice and now stands at 259,000.

If that pattern holds for April, today’s numbers will also be revised upward. But such revisions won’t be enough to turn a disappointing number into a strong number. This continues to be a long, hard slog.

– Jay Bookman

540 comments Add your comment

Brosephus™

May 4th, 2012
11:33 am

Bottomline is that the majority of Americans are not better off than 3.5 years ago…voting for Romney.

Dang it!!! Now I’m a minority in a minority??? I hate when people keep redefining things…. :roll:

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
11:33 am

“Why is Obama campaigned with Sherrod Brown? A known wife beater..”

Desperation setting in quickly and very early

hahahahahahahaha

Brosephus™

May 4th, 2012
11:35 am

The losses came from GOVERNMENT JOBS. The ones you hate and want to cut.

Conservatives should be cheering, right?

Highly unlikely…

Generation$crewed

May 4th, 2012
11:35 am

Adam
May 4th, 2012
11:18 am

You going to claim I cherry picking to fit my idea and that I have trouble with the fact it is not Obama’s fault.

Now read this carefully!

Show me any post I have ever made claiming this to be Obama’s fault. Just 1. Go back as far as you need to.

There seemed to be confusion as to the actual numbers, with Jay throwing out his private sector job growth blah blah. All more diversion. Just as you are doing.

Thus placing you into the catagory of defining your position and then finding facts to support it.

All I showed was that in fact since Obama took office there are fewer people on pay rolls. Did I offer a reason why? Give blame to anyone or any party?

Since the answer is no why do you feel the need to lie and claim that is my motivation? Eventhough there ain’t one single implication by me. Can the same be said for you?

So now respond and tell the people something else I am doing that there is not one shred of evidence of me doing. Let’s see it!

Oblama

May 4th, 2012
11:35 am

Oblama is The “Great Divider”. Class warfare/ Sex warfare/ Race warfare/ Age warfare/ Victim warfare/ etc. …………… Reagan was the “Great Uniter”… now we have just the opposite. Time for CHANGE. Time for another “Great Uniter” and time for TERM LIMITS.

Steve Atl

May 4th, 2012
11:36 am

Head of the Harvard Law Review doesn’t know how many states there are…and the great soothsayer can’t make a speech without a teleprompter.

Maybe should have layed off the crack in his early years and studied Geography and went to Toastmasters.

Poor Boy from Alabama

May 4th, 2012
11:36 am

Steve @ 11:19

Not sure which part of my post you question.

Here are a couple of other things for you to consider:

1. Labor force participation rates have fallen steadily since early 2009.

2. The percentage of Americans working fell steadily through most of 2009 and has barely budged since

Use this link from the Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond and then go to page 28:

http://www.richmondfed.org/research/national_economy/national_economic_indicators/pdf/all_charts.pdf

You add it all up and there hasn’t been much of a jobs recovery.

JKL2

May 4th, 2012
11:37 am

steve- When Obama clearly wins this fall, I can’t wait to read the posts in here.

“so this is how liberty dies…with thunderous applause”

Feel free to break out the violin while Rome is burning from all the OWS riots Nero.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
11:37 am

“our 1st “Reality Show” President”

Cathy, but sophist.

However, we almost had our first Reality Show candidate. What a shame too, he could have made one helluva run at outstupiding (made up word) Herman, Newt, Michelle and both Rickys…

http://www.nbc.com/the-apprentice/

getalife

May 4th, 2012
11:37 am

When is Obama going to change law?

I am just a bill on capital hill toon should be watched by our cons.

corrupt congress and their lobbyists write the laws silly.

Steve Atl

May 4th, 2012
11:38 am

Bropheus…congratulations on upgrading to the double wide and getting a newer Prius…you are indeed living large (and seem to be better off).

Jay

May 4th, 2012
11:39 am

In return for campaign contribution (or so it appears) Chavez government is granted right to build 341 additional Valero gas stations in the U.S. at exclusive locations. Huckabee Report.

Some suckers will clearly believe anything, and I mean ANYTHING! — P.T. Barnum Report.

Oh, and sheets.

Adam

May 4th, 2012
11:40 am

GS: So what IS your point, then, if not to indicate Obama is somehow at fault, by starting your data at January 2009? Show me evidence you’re actually being objective by doing this, and not just calling the kettle black when you say “Thus placing you into the catagory of defining your position and then finding facts to support it.”

If all you have is “Well I didn’t exactly SAY that” then you’ve got nothing. If there’s a reason other than implicitly blaming Obama, let’s hear it!

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
11:40 am

Private nonfarm employment on Jan 2009 – 133,561,000.Private nonfarm employment on Mar 2012 – 132,821,000

Why limit it. How about total private employment?

Feb 2009 (why January when Obama didn’t get into office until the 20th?): 110260 million
April 2009 (we have those numbers now!): 111020 million.

That’s about the size of Memphis in job gains :)

UNCLE SAMANTHA

May 4th, 2012
11:40 am

REAL MEN OF GENIUS

President Barack Obama issued a proclamation yesterday in celebration of Jewish Heritage Month that lauded Nazi supporter Gertrude Stein

Tit for Tat

May 4th, 2012
11:40 am

Oblama – Bonnie Fwank has not turned tail and run. He retired from politics and went back to his boy friend – you know the one that got raided for having little boys in his basement.

Adam

May 4th, 2012
11:41 am

JKL2: “so this is how liberty dies…with thunderous applause”

POINT OF ORDER: That line was used as a dig against the BUSH administration. You don’t get to use it to apply anywhere else, except in the fictional Star Wars universe from which it originated.

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
11:41 am

Poor Boy From Alabama

I think you meant to say that Labor Force Rates have been falling for numerous yrs…….. Maybe a steadier decline since 09 or so, but surely a decline for numerous yrs

Sure you wouldn’t want your argument skewed one way or another

http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet

Adam

May 4th, 2012
11:42 am

JKL2: Oh, and listen to anyone else who follows up behind me and says tat you have to follow the rules (even if you don’t know them). Thanks in advance to you and anyone who follows up that way :D

Steve

May 4th, 2012
11:42 am

I hate Oblama-bozo SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much!

Curious

May 4th, 2012
11:42 am

Where are we going to find all the money for the Nobel Prize winning economists posting here?

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
11:42 am

“so this is how liberty dies”

PREPARE THE FAINTING COUCHES!

(And we’re gonna need a bunch of ‘em!)

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
11:44 am

PB from Alabama

I posted that link because I have read several of your posts and you seem to be very astute and knowledgeable with facts and figures

JKL2

May 4th, 2012
11:44 am

getalife- Our President will run on his record

Which part?

ACA
closing Gitmo
balancing the budget
reducing the deficit
restoring our great name around the world
uniting our country
reducing our dependance on foreign oil

He is doing a good job of making energy costs “necessarily skyrocket”

Adam

May 4th, 2012
11:45 am

“I hate Obama more than I love Jesus”

Steve

May 4th, 2012
11:45 am

I love how the right wingers on here will do anything to spin data. Obama inherits a great recession (look, we ALL know this). And now, whine whine whine whine as the GOP siphons money to the 0.1% (who are getting wealthier) and YOU blame Obama.

Classic. YOU have been punked.

Oblama

May 4th, 2012
11:46 am

Sorry – Tit for Tat…. you are right. Bonnie Fwank went back to his boy friend – the one that got raided for having little boys in his basement. He still was responsible for pressuring banks to make loans to those that could not afford them. Go back to C-Span and watch him railing for the “underprivileged” to get affordable mortgages and his threats of Fed lawsuits against the banks that did not cooperate. Later he also denied this – also on T.V. It got real hot for him and he turned tail and retired to his government pension and healthcare.

Adam

May 4th, 2012
11:47 am

JKL2: ACA
closing Gitmo
balancing the budget
reducing the deficit
restoring our great name around the world
uniting our country
reducing our dependance on foreign oil

This is idiotic. You clearly think every single one of these didn’t happen or weren’t positive, but you would be wrong on a bunch of them. ACA, reducing dependance on foreign oil, and restoring our great name around the world all happened and were positive.

Jay

May 4th, 2012
11:48 am

Adam:

That, and that what we’ve seen is a regression to the mean, with the pre-’08 housing prices that we took as “normal” actually being way out of whack with the historic norm. A lot of people — a lot of allegedly very smart people with impressive degrees and resumes — talked themselves into believing that there were reasons why that a-historical price jump was solid and justified, but ….

… they were wrong.

Oblama

May 4th, 2012
11:49 am

Don’t hate. Just disagree. Have a lovely day!

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
11:49 am

UNCLE, it doesn’t matter what that Republican woman did or did not do.

American Jews never have and never will vote for the quasi-fascist GOP in any significant percentages…

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
11:50 am

“He still was responsible for pressuring banks to make loans to those that could not afford them”

So what exactly did Frank do to the banks that wouldn’t or couldn’t be “pressured”?

Let me guess…….. You will state that every single bank in the US fell in line

hahahahahaha

Poor Boy from Alabama

May 4th, 2012
11:51 am

They Both Suck:

Thanks for the kind words.

No argument about the long term labor force participation rate trend. It’s been falling for a while. I referenced 2009 in my post to provide an apples to apples comparison to some of the numbers that have been posted on this blog today

The percentage of Americans working, however, really did drop of a table around late 2007/early 2008 and has not improved even thought we’ve been in a “recovery” since 2009.

Mighty Righty

May 4th, 2012
11:54 am

Per the Bureau of Labor Statistics, nonfarm employment ending January 2001 was 132,466,000. After 9/11 which brought our country to our knees, shutting down airlines, travel, hotels and the associated industires employment dropped to 130,209,000. Compare to January 2009 nonfarm employment had climbed to 133,531,561. Some economists would argue the economy inherited by Bush, including 9/11 was worse than the economy inherited by Obama. Yet under Bush, the economy added jobs to the tune of nearly 3.5 million. Non farm employment under Obama is still after three years, less than when he was elected plus we are five trillion dollars further in debt. There is no way to put lipstick on this economy to make it look good and distorting it doesn’t make it any better.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
11:55 am

“Why is it necessary for the BLS to gather a sample by telephone instead of using actual data which is available? I am sure the governemnt can afford a laptop or something to connect live to state unemployment reporting centers. But then they wouldn’t be able to manipulate the data would they?”

First of all, you are welcome for me educating you once again. At no charge, you parasite! (grin)

Secondly why the hell does the manner of data collection matter to you?

You and you dipstick conspiracy theories are absolutely endless.

Are you perchance related to the second gunman on the grassy knoll?

Brosephus™

May 4th, 2012
11:56 am

Bropheus…congratulations on upgrading to the double wide and getting a newer Prius…you are indeed living large (and seem to be better off).

You need a better crystal ball there dude. Don’t live in a double wide, and I don’t drive foreign branded vehicles. I hope you don’t make your living by having to think and guess. That’s probably why you’re worse off now than before. Especially considering the stock market has basically doubled since the low in 2009.

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
11:57 am

PB from Alabama

True…….

What I’m attempting to convey to some on here is that the people falling off rolls and no longer being counted against unemployment numbers is a valid point……… no doubt

With that said, the unemployment calculation hasn’t changed.

When people get into their calculation change theory……… It is almost sad to be honest

Jay

May 4th, 2012
11:57 am

Some economists would argue the economy inherited by Bush, including 9/11 was worse than the economy inherited by Obama.

There is not a single damn economist in the world who would argue that.

What an absurd statement.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
12:01 pm

Righty,

OMG, you are STILL trying to equate the economic effect of 9/11 with the corporate destruction of capitalism in Sept. 2008?

It is official.

You are hopeless…

Brosephus™

May 4th, 2012
12:01 pm

Jay

They could argue it all day. That still doesn’t make it true. We see that here on a daily basis. People argue all kinds of sh*t that has no truthfulness to it at all.

Steve Atl

May 4th, 2012
12:07 pm

Jay @11:57 – What are your sources? Please state facts. You are responding with emotion. Perhaps that fancy degree from Penn State (obviously an institution that puts a bit more emphasis on football rather than academics) doesn’t allow you to have critical thinking skills.

Joseph

May 4th, 2012
12:08 pm

Jay:

Have you noticed the population increase since the wonderful Reagan years when we had a real leader? How is it possible with the enormous increase in population that we have less people in the workforce? I know you and your ilk simply ignore facts and dwell in a land of fantasy but for a second take a look at reality. Reality is that the labor force is at its lowest level in decades. You even admit that. Where exactly are the 88,419,000 people who are no longer counted? I’ll grant you that some are retired. But not that many. 522,000 were dropped just last month. Where did these people go to not be counted anymore? Its simple math and so simple to explain. Foaming at the mouth liberals like you continue to run around covering your ears simply ignoring the reality that the President has failed…..
You Jay have not arrived at your conclusions via rational thought and facts, and thus you cannot be dissuaded from your conclusions via rational thought and facts.

Brosephus™

May 4th, 2012
12:09 pm

You are responding with emotion.

So sayeth the person who tried to disparage me with his emotional display of the double wide card.

:roll:

Joseph

May 4th, 2012
12:11 pm

Jay:

You certainly could argue that Reagan inhertied a worse economy and turned it around by creating 23,000,000 new jobs… While increasing the workforce I might add….

Steve Atl

May 4th, 2012
12:12 pm

I was being ironical Bropheus…is that your “handle” on Playstation and XBox…is that why you have it trademarked?

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
12:13 pm

Joseph

At your leisure………. peruse this website……..

If you do not like the facts take it up with the Bureau of Labor Statistics

http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet

Even PB from Alabama acknowledges that fact as well,,,,, and he surely isn’t a liberal……… at least that is what I conclude from most of his posts

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
12:13 pm

WOO HOO!

Georgia is not dead last in state unemployment rates!

We’re 44th.

Great job Mssrs. Deal, Perdue, et al!

GT

May 4th, 2012
12:13 pm

Clinton was one of the best presidents ever. He balanced a budget that Gingrich tried to take credit for. Clinton handed that budget to Bush like a teenager with a new car. Bush hands it to O in the ditch and tells him it is his problem to get it out. It ain’t that difficult to follow unless you don’t want to follow it.

GT

May 4th, 2012
12:15 pm

If you took the red states out of this accounting how bad is the Amercian economy?

Brosephus™

May 4th, 2012
12:23 pm

Steve

Don’t do Playstation or XBox. Name’s not trademarked here either. Just did it to keep namejackers at bay….

Also, your attempt at irony failed. I’ve never lived in a mobile home. Also the only non-American vehicle I’ve ever driven was a Nissan Pathfinder, and I bought it for my wife to drive. If it ain’t American, I don’t spend money on it when it comes to vehicles.

Jay

May 4th, 2012
12:31 pm

I’m responding with emotion, Steve?

Here’s your emotion:

In the recession of the early 2000s, we never had two consecutive quarters of GDP decline, which is the classic definition of a recession.

In the Great Recession, we had seven consecutive quarters of decline.

In the early 2000s, GDP fell from its peak by 0.2 percent.

In the Great Recession, it fell by more than 5 percent.

In the tiny little recession at the start of Bush’s term, we lost 2 million jobs.

In the Great Recession at the end of his term, we lost more than 8 million jobs.

Those data come from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

In the end, the early-2000s recession was one of the mildest in the post-war era. The Great Recession was the most serious economic crisis in 80 years.

Joseph

May 4th, 2012
12:36 pm

Even when poor Bookman does try and be honest he simply can’t do it for fear of making Obama look bad…

ken

May 4th, 2012
12:52 pm

Our present government would never cook the books. Would they ???

td

May 4th, 2012
12:52 pm

Jay

May 4th, 2012
10:13 am

Regulation, along with the highest corporate tax rates in the world for doing business inside the country and Obamacare are reasons for corporations not to hire people in this country.

Corporations are in the business to make a profit and to return maximum benefits to its investors. When the cost of doing business is higher in this country due to taxes, regulation, salary and benefits then they are going to go to another country to do business.

This is evident demand for these products by what you and other posters have said about corporate profits are at record levels due mainly to overseas operations. If you want these jobs back in the US then the country will have to make it more profitable for them to do business here then overseas. You can either lower salary and benefits, regulation cost, taxes or the jobs will not come back. That is the bottom line of the way capitalism works in a world economy.

You can spin this

Sheez Louise

May 4th, 2012
1:06 pm

“Romney also criticized Friday’s unemployment report showing a drop to 8.1 percent in April, from 8.2 percent in March. That was partly because more people had stopped looking for work and the number of jobs created was lower than some economists had expected.”

HEADLINE: UNEMPLOYMENT DROPS TO 7.9%! (Cue Romney quote above)
HEADLINE: UNEMPLOYMENT DROPS TO 5.9%! (Cue Romney quote above)
HEADLINE: UNEMPLOYMENT DROPS TO 5%!!! (Cue Romney quote above)

The shallowness and insanity is perpetual with these wingnuts.

Sheez Louise

May 4th, 2012
1:08 pm

Mitt Romney = U.S. version of “Baghdad Bob”

weetamoe

May 4th, 2012
1:20 pm

It coulda been a whole bunch worse; even though the the republican house passed a whole buncha bills, Obama didn’t have a whole buncha time to waste looking at them; that surplus of stimulus money he inherited wasn’t enough to improve the economy because he needed most of it for green energy and a whole buncha stuff like that. And it wasn’t his fault that solyndra and evergreen and a whole buncha things his friends invested in went bankrupt. It coulda worked if the republicans weren’t so stingy. Paul Krugman said he needed to spend a whole bunch more. And Paul Krugman should know, cause he was a highly paid ENRON adviser. But what happened to ENRON was not his fault.

St Simons - we're on Island time

May 4th, 2012
1:30 pm

Man, “job participation numbers” must’ve focus-polled through the roof in that AM hate radio demographic

Casual Observer

May 4th, 2012
1:33 pm

And there is statistical manipulation in the unemployment rate, too. The government’s reported unemployment number doesn’t include people who stopped looking for work, but who want jobs.

You can read this report if you want to get more, but it seems that the only folks that really believe we have turned around are liberals and democrats. Out here in the real world, folks know and understand that more folks have dropped from the job force then have joined. If the number of folks dropping out of the work force are not ‘counted’ in the jobs report, than it would seem to me that the jobs report is missing some key data. Wouldn’t you agree?

http://www.foxbusiness.com/investing/2012/05/02/emac/#ixzz1tvGphZJU

There is that word again…manipulation.

ma·nip·u·late – to adapt or change (accounts, figures, etc.) to suit one’s purpose or advantage.

Know this … the methodology behind generating an unemployment figure has changed. This methodology is determined and implemented by that branch of government know as the Executive Branch. The Executive Branch has a CEO – and that CEO is Barack Obama. If the numbers are being manipulated as others in the media have reported, then don’t you think the CEO would know about it? Maybe he doesn’t…..but I seriously doubt it.

Jay

May 4th, 2012
1:53 pm

Casual, while that Fox link uses the word “manipulation,” it never once even suggests a way in which the Obama administration is doing anything different or calculating figures in any way other than the historic norm.

The whole claim is nonsense. The numbers being reported are the exact same numbers reported in the exact same way that they have been reported under previous administrations.

Casual Observer

May 4th, 2012
1:53 pm

People must be added to the work force at a higher rate than people are dropping out. If they can do that, then I will agree that we have turned the corner.

Until that happens, it is just a bunch of funny math.

ken

May 4th, 2012
1:57 pm

Jay, but we all know it will be 7.999999 in Nov.

Casual Observer

May 4th, 2012
1:57 pm

Well, I don’t know what to tell you Jay. I have heard this argument from more than just a few folks in the media. Maybe through your connections in the media, you can get to the bottom of this. I heard someone on the radio yesterday with almost the exact same story, and was called out here by not having “proof” of what I heard.

If it walks like a duck and smells like a duck, it must be a duck.

Jay

May 4th, 2012
2:03 pm

Reread your own link, Casual. Show me one instance in which Fox offers any evidence of a change in how things are counted or what is counted. If such evidence exists, don’t you think they’d cite it?

They claim manipulation, and then emit a cloud of smoke and dust to hide the fact that no manipulation exists.

Casual Observer

May 4th, 2012
2:04 pm

From a personal stand point, my wife lost her job 6 weeks ago. She was a realtors assistant for 10 years, and worked for a law firm for 15 years before that. She has plenty of administrative experience, but can’t find a single job. The longest she has EVER been out of work is 2 months when I moved from Germany to Indiana. She has not had a single interview, or a single reply via e-mail or phone from the resumes she has sent out. All her associates in the real estate business say there are absolutely no jobs available. She is continuing her search, but not much luck. Folks are struggling out here, and when I hear that the jobs market is getting better, I have seen 0 proof of that, from MY perspective.

Adam

May 4th, 2012
2:06 pm

Steve Atl: Jay @11:57 – What are your sources? Please state facts. You are responding with emotion. Perhaps that fancy degree from Penn State (obviously an institution that puts a bit more emphasis on football rather than academics) doesn’t allow you to have critical thinking skills.

I have a reading recommendation for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Casual Observer

May 4th, 2012
2:08 pm

Jay,

Then there must be a whole lot of people out there that are lying.

I am not a butcher, but if the butcher says it is filet mignon, I don’t ask for proof. I take him at his word because between him and me, he is the expert.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
2:09 pm

Joseph:

“Even when poor Bookman does try and be honest he simply can’t do it for fear of making Obama look bad…”

That’s one definition of a liberal..

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
2:10 pm

TaxPayer:

Obama is the one who said “3 years” not me.

Take it up with him.

Adam

May 4th, 2012
2:11 pm

Casual: As I (again) have REPEATEDLY pointed out, the BLS DOES actually measure who has stopped looking for work too, and the percentage of people unemployed for that and every other reason under the sun (except being unable to work at all) is ALSO going down steadily, and even faster than the regular unemployment rate.

There is no manipulation going on here. The only manipulation is being done by those who want to pretend that the unemployment rate isn’t the “real” unemployment rate, count numbers on different months, and/or suggest that other data, such as the labor participation rate, is more important just because it *seems* to look worse.

Jay

May 4th, 2012
2:12 pm

“Then there must be a whole lot of people out there that are lying.

I am not a butcher, but if the butcher says it is filet mignon, I don’t ask for proof. I take him at his word because between him and me, he is the expert.

Fine, Casual. So find me an expert who says they’re manipulating the data. Fox didn’t quote any. Fox didn’t cite any evidence. They just implied it with enough emphasis to convince the willing to believe it.

Casual Observer

May 4th, 2012
2:17 pm

OK Jay…OK. We are at a definite impasse here then. I believe what I believe, and you believe what you believe. Nothing wrong with that. No hard feelings.

Penn State? I am a Buckeye fan. Us Big Ten fans must stick together here….except when it comes to politics :)

Adam

May 4th, 2012
2:19 pm

I believe what I believe, and you believe what you believe

Belief is not fact, and fact is not belief.

Casual Observer

May 4th, 2012
2:24 pm

Adam,

Sorry, not gonna go there with you. I heard what I heard, and I read what I read. Neither you or I are in a position to call ourselves ‘experts’ in the field of reporting and understanding unemployment numbers. If we were, we wouldn’t be wasting our time spinning on a blog. I can not sway your opinion, and you can not sway mine. That is why I “respectfully” disagreed with the host here of this blog.

Jay

May 4th, 2012
2:24 pm

There’s no impasse, Casual.

They either do or do not manipulate. And there is NO evidence of manipulation. You don’t cite any, Fox doesn’t cite any. Nobody cites any, because it does not exist.

Casual Observer

May 4th, 2012
2:32 pm

Jay,

Then I go back to my earlier statement of there must be a lot of editorial writers, columnists, and TV folks who are lying. And as I am sure you know, if the credibility of someone in the public eye is questioned, it could end their career. See Dan Rather and Mary Mapes.

Steve Atl

May 4th, 2012
2:33 pm

Jay…you do know that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are not real…right?????

Steve Atl

May 4th, 2012
2:34 pm

No manipulation…you have got to be kidding me…Professional Wrestling and the Tooth Fairy as well…Mr Bookman.

Casual Observer

May 4th, 2012
2:38 pm

Jay,

If the jobs numbers that are being reported is missing data, like the number of people no longer looking for jobs, wouldn’t that be a form of manipulation?

ma·nip·u·late – to adapt or change (accounts, figures, etc.) to suit one’s purpose or advantage.

I think it would.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
2:44 pm

“They either do or do not manipulate. And there is NO evidence of manipulation. You don’t cite any, Fox doesn’t cite any. Nobody cites any, because it does not exist.”

Headline: “Obama’s made-up jobless numbers”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/5/curl-obamas-made-up-jobless-numbers/?page=all

Headline: “Obama’s True Unemployment Rate is Really 9.9 Percent”

http://townhall.com/columnists/donaldlambro/2012/02/08/obamas_true_unemployment_rate_is_really_99_percent/page/full/

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
2:45 pm

Casual Observer:

Thank you.

Jay

May 4th, 2012
2:46 pm

No manipulation…you have got to be kidding me…Professional Wrestling and the Tooth Fairy as well…Mr Bookman.

So show me evidence, Steve.

C’mon, step on up with the proof. ANY proof. Any proof at all that the Obama administration is doing anything different than the Bush administration and the Clinton administration, etc., in how it is counting, what it is counting or how it is being reported.

It ought to be easy, right? Then do it.

I'm a "con" and a vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!! (That Black Guy)

May 4th, 2012
2:47 pm

UNCLE SAMANTHA

May 4th, 2012
11:12 am
adam
once again you are incorrect

libertarians are even worse

let wall street regulate themselves
let deep sea oil rig builders and operators regulate themselves
housing markerts will self correct
legalize drugs

not a libertarian
____________________________________________________________________________

But but…
You have to be a repub or a libertarian.
You just HAVE to be.

There is no way you can NOT belong to a political party.
We must follow someone’s lead.

WE MUST FOLLOW…

Rickster

May 4th, 2012
2:49 pm

Boy… imagine how bad the employment numbers would be if it weren’t for all those green jobs Obama’s created.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
2:57 pm

“So show me evidence, Steve.

C’mon, step on up with the proof. ANY proof. Any proof at all that the Obama administration is doing anything different than the Bush administration and the Clinton administration, etc., in how it is counting, what it is counting or how it is being reported.

It ought to be easy, right? Then do it.”

“They either do or do not manipulate. And there is NO evidence of manipulation. You don’t cite any, Fox doesn’t cite any. Nobody cites any, because it does not exist.”

Headline: “Obama’s made-up jobless numbers”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/5/curl-obamas-made-up-jobless-numbers/?page=all

Headline: “Obama’s True Unemployment Rate is Really 9.9 Percent”

http://townhall.com/columnists/donaldlambro/2012/02/08/obamas_true_unemployment_rate_is_really_99_percent/page/full/

Casual Observer

May 4th, 2012
2:57 pm

Jay,

The guy above who uses a whole bunch of numbers for his handle (0311/8541/5811/1811/1801) just provided you with 2 links. I added one earlier that states the same FACTS, and I can dig up a whole bunch more. You keep asking for proof, and we have provided you with it. If you do not believe what these columnists have written, take it up with their managing editor and ask that they either be suspended or fired. Otherwise, you are just pissing in a fan.

Rickster

May 4th, 2012
2:58 pm

That there “green economy” Obama’s always talking about is going to save not just this country… but the whole world!

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:00 pm

Sorry, not gonna go there with you. I heard what I heard, and I read what I read.

What you’re basically saying here is that as long as someone in the media disagrees with something else in the media, then neither are correct because we are not experts. That’s nonsense, and only a way to try to make yourself gracefully exit.

Facts are facts, and the unemployment numbers are not “manipulated”, as you are asserting. Your only evidence seems to be hearsay, and you rely on the fact that someone simply disagrees with the generally accepted numbers as some sort of evidence that they are being manipulated. Things don’t become a debate just because someone disagrees. No matter how many people think the earth is flat, there is no debate. The earth is round, and that’s just fact. Same with the earth revolving around the sun, the moon reflecting the sun’s light, and the moon affecting the tides. There IS NO DEBATE on things just because someone asserts the opposite.

And, as I already pointed out to Scout, the links he is posting do not prove the point. They, in fact, prove my point – that the numbers are measured the same way all the time and that people are just pulling from the same organization they are trying to say is manipulating things.

The idea that the numbers are manipulated, or that there is somehow a “more real” unemployment number than is measured by the BLS is just nonsense, and I defy ANY OF YOU to prove otherwise.

Casual Observer

May 4th, 2012
3:03 pm

These columnists are using raw data from the Department of Labor to justify their articles. I don’t know what proof you are looking for, but it is really hard to dispute their facts.

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:03 pm

For example, if in the February 2012 article you assert the “real” unemployment rate is 9.9% in January 2012, then what is it, measured the SAME EXACT WAY, in February, March, and April? Here are your answers:

February 2012: 9.8%
March 2012: 9.6%
April 2012: 9.5%

That’s the U-5 measurement, in case you were wondering. It measures: “Total unemployed, plus discouraged workers, plus all other persons marginally attached to the labor force, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force”

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
3:04 pm

Casual Observer:

Thank you.

0311 Infantry
8541 Scout-Sniper
5811 Military Police
1811 Federal Criminal Investigator
1801 Federal Air Marshal

………………………. :o

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:05 pm

Therefore, to suggest that the unemployment number isn’t “real,” and then post another, higher number, is the REAL manipulation of the existing facts. The entire point of doing that is to get people to think that the unemployment rate is really going up, or being shifted around, or the government is lying to you, or any or all of the above. None of those things are true, and you should be ashamed of yourself for falling for it.

I'm a "con" and a vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!! (That Black Guy)

May 4th, 2012
3:05 pm

Adam

May 4th, 2012
11:41 am
JKL2: “so this is how liberty dies…with thunderous applause”

POINT OF ORDER: That line was used as a dig against the BUSH administration. You don’t get to use it to apply anywhere else
______________________________________________________________________________

JKL2, you GOTS to know teh RULZ!!!

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:08 pm

TBG: JKL2, you GOTS to know teh RULZ!!!

Called it!. Predictable. So predictable….

Casual Observer

May 4th, 2012
3:08 pm

Adam,

I will pose the same question to you as I did to Jay. If the jobs numbers that are being reported is missing data, like the number of people no longer looking for jobs, wouldn’t that be a form of manipulation?

The links to articles that I and others have posted are articles written by columnists. They use raw data from the Department of Labor to base their articles on. Any person with a 2nd grade education can look at the numbers and easily determine that the numbers are in fact being manipulated. If you would take the time to read them, you would see for yourself that there is some fuzzy math going on.

Casual Observer

May 4th, 2012
3:11 pm

Adam
May 4th, 2012
3:03 pm

February 2012: 9.8%
March 2012: 9.6%
April 2012: 9.5%

So, are you saying that these are the real unemployment numbers?

Jay

May 4th, 2012
3:14 pm

Casual, neither of those links contains any evidence whatsoever.

If you cared about the actual truth, rather than trying vainly to defend the indefensible, you would read those stories and recognize that.

Economists take such data very seriously. It is the basis of what they do. If conservative economists believed there was any hint of manipulation in these numbers, they’d be yelling bloody murder, and they’d be absolutely right to do so.

But they don’t make such claims, because there is no evidence of it. None. And op-ed pieces in the Washington Times do not and never will substitute for evidence.

Casual Observer

May 4th, 2012
3:15 pm

Adam,

If the April unemployment number is actually 9.5%, fine. Then the media needs to report that, not 8.1% like they did this morning. All I am saying is report the ACTUAL number.

Casual Observer

May 4th, 2012
3:20 pm

Jay,

So, let me get this straight. These columnists are using REAL RAW DATA from the Department of Labor to base their story on. But you say they have no evidence? Come on man, really? Really???

I think Adam may be on to something with is last post. He opined that April unemployment is 9.5% using the U-5 measurement, which I can assume is the number of unemployed, plus the number of folks no longer looking for work. Adam, is that correct? If that is the case, why doesn’t the media say it is 9.5%, instead of 8.1%?

I'm a "con" and a vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!! (That Black Guy)

May 4th, 2012
3:22 pm

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:08 pm
TBG: JKL2, you GOTS to know teh RULZ!!!

Called it!. Predictable. So predictable….
__________________________________________________________________________

Adam, if you don’t like people calling you out about “TEH RULZ”, then STOP telling other people what they can and can’t say in a post.

As far as your “Called it”, that’s like pizzing in the lobby of a police station and saying “watch me get arrested”

At the very least publish “teh rulz” so you don’t have to tell us when we are breaking one.

kthxbye