An irrefutable argument from climate-change deniers

UPDATE: Under harsh criticism, the Heartland Institute has now decided to end its billboard program.

The Heartland Institute describes itself as “a leading source of science and economics questioning claims that man-made global warming is a crisis.” And it’s true, as far as such things go: In the universe of climate-change deniers, Heartland is as close to mainstream as the movement gets.

This is how Heartland has chosen to participate in the debate regarding “science and economics.”

Billboard2-620x229

According to Heartland, this is planned as part of a series of such billboards. Additional stars will be Charles Manson and perhaps Osama bin Laden. And if you want to know why Heartland has chosen to feature such people on its billboards, it has thoughtfully provided an answer:

“Because what these murderers and madmen have said differs very little from what spokespersons for the United Nations, journalists for the “mainstream” media, and liberal politicians say about global warming….”

Most scientists and 60 percent of the general public (in the U.S.) do not believe man-made global warming is a problem. The people who still believe in man-made global warming are mostly on the radical fringe of society. This is why the most prominent advocates of global warming aren’t scientists. They are murderers, tyrants, and madmen.”

If I may paraphrase Heartland’s argument, sane people shouldn’t want anything to do with people who have gone off the deep end, are truly nutty, have lost all sense of proportion and decency and say and do preposterous things.

I think they have a point.

– Jay Bookman

334 comments Add your comment

JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG

May 4th, 2012
1:49 pm

JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG

May 4th, 2012
1:50 pm

Dumb AD, but hey…its their money.

Matti

May 4th, 2012
2:01 pm

HAHAHAHAHAHA! :D

Thanks for cheering me up, Mr. Bookman. That’s hilarious!

ty webb

May 4th, 2012
2:01 pm

Good ad. I can think of no one better to represent the global warmin-um-climate change movement than Kaczynski.

Peadawg

May 4th, 2012
2:02 pm

Global warming IS a problem. You can’t deny the data. (I know weather shouldn’t be used but we got a 3 weeks winter and MAYBE 2 weeks of Spring it seems like). But hell the climate has been warming, cooling, etc. for billions of years…even before their were humans. So…….

BTW, love this Ron White joke:
“Why are you a vegetarian?’ I asked him. And it wasn’t even because meat is bad for you. He said that raising cattle was bad for the planet — with cow flatulence in the ozone and the clearing of land for the raising of cattle. ‘What are you doing to help the environment?’ ‘I’m eating the cow.’”

poison pen

May 4th, 2012
2:03 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/03/obama-trade-congress-buy-american_n_1475277.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk1%26pLid%3D157905

Hope this opens up, if not find it and read it, it will make you want to vomit.

It’s about Obama wanting to get rid of … Buy American…

I’ve read enough about Global Warming, it’s 85 deg outside it’s warm.

Lucifer

May 4th, 2012
2:03 pm

I hope they get to Tim McVeigh.

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
2:05 pm

What’s scary is that there are some people like ty who think this is somehow effective advertising of anything other than “these heartland people are batsh!t crazy”.

Wonder how long until the “liberal” corporate backlash against them for going over the line.

Jerome Horwitz

May 4th, 2012
2:06 pm

How do they know Ted K still believes? He should sue these fools.

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
2:07 pm

He should sue these fools.

Oh, man, were I only a lawyer, that would be a wet dream case.

carlosgvv

May 4th, 2012
2:10 pm

Almost all the world’s leading climatologists agree that we humans are mainly responsible for global warming. Obviously, Heartland is just a mouthpiece for Big Business, those who value profit above all else and will use any type of lie to keep the money coming in.

I know America is full of simple people who believe anything they are told by their Republican politicans. I wonder if the people of Europe are as credulous?

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
2:11 pm

Now, if it was Osama on the sign… well, that would be funny. Guy in hell claiming he believes in global warming…

stands for decibels

May 4th, 2012
2:11 pm

Seriously, what kind of son-of-a-c#nt-hog thinks up this crap?

Steve

May 4th, 2012
2:12 pm

When you mix politics with science, you throw science out the door.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
2:12 pm

Al Gore (who invented the internet) should be on there.

Rob Honeycutt

May 4th, 2012
2:13 pm

The irony here is, if you go through Kaczynski’s writing (as someone reporting for E&E did) you find that he NEVER once mentions global warming, climate change or carbon. Not only is this billboard a logical fallacy, is also factually incorrect.

But what do you expect? It the Heartland Institute!

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
2:13 pm

By the way:

Headline (AJC): “A Peachtree City woman was arrested Thursday on a bigamy charge and faces up to 10 years if convicted.”

Why?

Are consenting adults allowed to do that?

What right to we have to tell her who to marry and how many times?

Huh?

cloudodust

May 4th, 2012
2:14 pm

No matter one’s opinion on the subject of global or non-global warming, to use mass murderers as a platform is foolish. Only mass murderers or those that sympathize with mass murderers may disagree…Next piece please, Mr Bookman…

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

May 4th, 2012
2:18 pm

Heartland Institute?

Didn’t I see a billboard on 85 that claims the Heartland Institute fellows eat live monkey brains and dance naked in the moonlight praying to Baal?

Just saying….

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
2:18 pm

Only mass murderers or those that sympathize with mass murderers may disagree

Not quite. ty thought it was grand and he’s neither.

What he is is someone who is so irrationally in agreement with the ad’s concept that his ability to reason is impared.

He should not operate heavy machinery while looking at the ad.

Jefferson

May 4th, 2012
2:18 pm

Just another example of the GOP “cuteness”.

Recon 0311 2533

May 4th, 2012
2:19 pm

Well with not faring particularly well in the anemic job numbers thread, this topic should warm Jay’s flock up, so to speak.

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
2:20 pm

“Al Gore (who invented the internet) should be on there”

First with a lie that never dies. Sorry, no prize. Not your lucky day I guess.

Logical Dude

May 4th, 2012
2:23 pm

Quoting the quote: Most scientists and 60 percent of the general public (in the U.S.) do not believe man-made global warming is a problem

Wait a minute!!!! they are saying that Global Warming IS HAPPENING!
They just don’t think it’s a problem.

Gee, they finally admitted that IT IS HAPPENING.

Well, it’s progress anyway.

ty webb

May 4th, 2012
2:23 pm

ByteMe,
thanks for the psychoanalysis, But I just said the ad was good…not effective. The only reason I like it is because it needles the man made global warmi-um-climate change movement. Doubt it’s going to change anyone’s mind either way.

Lord Help Us

May 4th, 2012
2:24 pm

Clean air, clean water and a healthy planet are pro-life issues…

Karma

May 4th, 2012
2:24 pm

I wish they’d just call it pollution.

Curious

May 4th, 2012
2:25 pm

Do you make these postings just to get all us loonies’ panties in a wad?

Logical Dude

May 4th, 2012
2:25 pm

oh, and for the billboard, for anyone who gives the half-second glance that it usually gets on the road, people will see Ted, and “heartland.org” and think: Why would Ted be a part of heartland.org? What a wacky outfit!

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
2:26 pm

ty, buddy, I was defending you from charges that you were a mass murderer. Thank me later :)

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
2:26 pm

ty, buddy, I was defending you from charges that you were a mass murderer. Thank me later :)

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
2:26 pm

Oooohh… bounce post!

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
2:27 pm

Clean air, clean water and a healthy planet are pro-life issues

Jesus wanted clean air. I’m sure of it.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
2:28 pm

The Heartland Institute?

I cannot even believe those idiots are still around.

You Republicans are absolutely the dumbest mofos on the entire planet.

Let’s review:

Those who don’t believe in the validity of ACC:
The Heartland Institute

Those who do:
The world’s 32 national science academies
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
National Geographic
Scientific American
American Meteorological Society
American Association of State Climatologists
American Geological Institute
Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Royal Meteorological Society (UK)
World Meteorological Organization
Canadian Federation of Earth Sciences
American Quaternary Association
International Union for Quaternary Research
American Institute of Biological Sciences
American Society for Microbiology
Network of African Science Academies
Australian Coral Reef Society
Institute of Biology (UK)
Society of American Foresters
Geological Society of Australia
The Wildlife Society
American Academy of Pediatrics
American College of Preventive Medicine
American Medical Association
American Public Health Association
Australian Medical Association
World Federation of Public Health Associations
World Health Organization
American Astronomical Society
American Statistical Association
American Association for the Advancement of Science
American Chemical Society
American Institute of Physics
American Physical Society
Australian Institute of Physics
European Physical Society
European Science Foundation
Federation of Australian Scientific and Technological Societies
American Geophysical Union
American Society of Agronomy,
Crop Science Society of America
Soil Science Society of America
European Federation of Geologists
European Geosciences Union
Geological Society of America
International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics

AND EVERY OTHER SINGLE CREDIBLE SCIENTIFIC ORGANIZATION

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
2:29 pm

“for anyone who gives the half-second glance that it usually gets on the road, people will see Ted, and “heartland.org” and think: Why would Ted be a part of heartland.org? What a wacky outfit!”

And my bet is that the vast majority of people seeing it won’t even know who the guy is. I didn’t.

vince neil

May 4th, 2012
2:29 pm

blah freaking blah…even if is is warmer which is marginally specious science….man has not caused this to happen…so we should spend Billions if not TRILLIONS on fantastical science……when “children are starving and schools are sufferering etc (which is not happening either)…..” The efforts put forth and planned are such a MONSTROUS waste of capital and resources which could but much more properly allocated to improve transportation infrastructure and more obvious quality of life projects or simply returned to the free market…….your prius is nice because you are spending less every week on fuel than I am with my Suburban..but your little golf cart can’t haul boats and other equipment I need for my business…..just sayin!

Normal Free, Plain and Simple

May 4th, 2012
2:31 pm

Global warming is a fact. Doesn’t matter if it’s man caused or not. What concerns me is there anyone out there preparing for the outcome?

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
2:32 pm

“even if is is warmer ”

You’re confusing air temperature with climate temperature – which is about the temperature of the oceans, primarily.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
2:32 pm

“even if is is warmer which is marginally specious science”

Your argument would be stronger, Sinkwich vince, if you were more specific.

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
2:33 pm

even if is is warmer which is marginally specious science….man has not caused this to happen

And your scientific climatological data comes from…? The Heartland Institute?

Normal Free, Plain and Simple

May 4th, 2012
2:33 pm

I lost thirty pounds lately…does that make me a mass murderer? :)

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
2:34 pm

What concerns me is there anyone out there preparing for the outcome?

Certainly not New Orleans, which is mostly below sea level. Nor most beach-front areas.

But, hey! We still get to subsidize flood insurance for rich people who buy along the coast.

Don't Tread

May 4th, 2012
2:34 pm

Well if you think man made climate change is a problem, go ahead and write your check to the government to solve it. That’ll fix it.

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
2:34 pm

“is there anyone out there preparing for the outcome?”

I bought a skimpier bathing suit, does that count? ;-)

Becky

May 4th, 2012
2:34 pm

We need a like button on this here blog!

Well done Logical dude.

Get It Right

May 4th, 2012
2:35 pm

I really can’t blame the Heartland Institute for going this route. Facts and proper scientific methods are not acceptable to the mainstreem media. They only want hysteria and crisis. Reporting that the world won’t end in 20 years unless we all stop breathing, eating meat, and procreating just isn’t sexy enough. Nope, an overall mean temperature increase of 0.59 degrees celcius since the 1850’s and no increase of the mean temperature in the past 13 years isn’t news. Well, I think it’s important, but you’ll never see that reported in the AJC.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

May 4th, 2012
2:35 pm

Hell if Fukishima #4 drys up and we aren’t south of the equator
global warming may be the least of our problems.

Brosephus™

May 4th, 2012
2:35 pm

Hope this opens up, if not find it and read it, it will make you want to vomit.

Opened it up and read it. Sounds like a case of unintended consequences of short term thinking. Going all gung ho over free trade opens up all kinds of issues. If you’re putting restrictions on it, it’s not “free trade”. You can’t have your cake AND eat it too.

Also, I though I’d help you out with your post a bit…. “It’s about the Obama administration wanting to get rid of … Buy American…” I seriously doubt that Obama, himself, is sitting in on each and every meeting.

———————–

On topic:

That billboard is basically what our society has devolved to anyway. No shock for me on that one….

Lord Help Us

May 4th, 2012
2:36 pm

Con Logic:

Global warming is a myth, man did not evolve, the earth is 5,000 years old, tax cuts increase revenue, Obama is simultaneously fascist/marxist/socialist/communist, Mitt Romney is conservative.

I am sure I left off a few…

Brosephus™

May 4th, 2012
2:36 pm

oops… screwed up the bold on that one…

ty webb

May 4th, 2012
2:36 pm

byteme,
thanks

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
2:37 pm

Facts and proper scientific methods are not acceptable to the mainstreem media.They only want hysteria and crisis

so says the person who is agreeing with a billboard using a convicted mass murderer to buttress their point about climate change.

Brosephus™

May 4th, 2012
2:38 pm

bought a skimpier bathing suit, does that count?

:shock: :shock:

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
2:38 pm

ty, you’re welcome. But you could have waited ’til later to say it :)

Peadawg

May 4th, 2012
2:39 pm

“I bought a skimpier bathing suit, does that count?”

Roll ‘em up now, grandma.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
2:39 pm

Peadawg

May 4th, 2012
2:40 pm

Off topic but necessary

R.I.P. Adam ‘MCA’ Yauch

TaxPayer

May 4th, 2012
2:41 pm

And what’s really cool is when either of the Koch crooks wiggle their fingers, the lips of the tools at Heartland (along with most of the GOP’s) all flap at the same time and say the same stoopid things. It’s a miracle I tells ya! :lol:

BADA BING

May 4th, 2012
2:42 pm

Al Gore thinks it’s getting hotter because he uses Warming KY Jelly when he gets his “massages”.

Jay

May 4th, 2012
2:44 pm

According to NASA, “nine of the ten warmest years are in the 21st century, the only exception being 1998, which was warmed by the strongest El Niño of the past century.”

So nine of the 10 warmest years on record have occurred since 2000, and the one remaining of that Top Ten occurred in 1998. And that’s the evidence that supposedly allows “Get It Right” to claim “no increase of the mean temperature in the past 13 years.”

That’s called torturing the data until it screams, but it typifies the extent to which deniers have to go.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
2:45 pm

no increase of the mean temperature in the past 13 years isn’t news.

Where did you come up with THAT nonsense?

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
2:48 pm

Because that list has no impact at all on the ostriches, lets try another angle.

Recognized organizations that don’t believe in the validity of ACC;

The Republican Party of the the United States.

Those that do.

EVERYONE ELSE.

Yet you bigots and ignoramuses (hat tip Clarence Darrow) have it all figured out, huh?

n

May 4th, 2012
2:49 pm

How crazy can it get? I think it’s past the point of making jokes about the lunacy that is spreading from these crazy men throughout the media and American society. All honorable people must challenge them or we will soon be swallowed up by right wing propaganda and craziness. It is Scoundrel Time redux.

Brosephus™

May 4th, 2012
2:49 pm

Way off topic, but I just saw where MCA from the Beastie Boys died from cancer…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5rRZdiu1UE&ob=av2e

R.I.P. Brother… A true pioneer of rap….

Paul

May 4th, 2012
2:50 pm

Just like at the end, guess who’s cheering for Heartland?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpraJYnbVtE

N-GA

May 4th, 2012
2:50 pm

They are probably advertising on Clear Channel billboards………

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
2:50 pm

“If we bear in mind that the correct forecasts based on the semiquantitative model of solar-terrestrial relations presented here are thinkable only if the sun’s varying activity is a dominant factor in climate change, it seems difficult to resist the insight that once again an artificially constructed homocentric position is beginning to rock. A general survey of the given results indicates that climate variations are governed by the sun, not mankind.”

http://www.john-daly.com/solar/solar.htm

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
2:53 pm

Curious

May 4th, 2012
2:55 pm

Since we have little ability to controll/manage the Sun, why don’t we work with something we can control; mankind?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
2:55 pm

“Small Fluctuations In Solar Activity, Large Influence On Climate”

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090827141349.htm

Jerome Horwitz

May 4th, 2012
2:55 pm

Factual discussion of this issue on NPR right now – Talk of The Nation. Apparently only 10% of the population are true doubters on Global Warming. They just have the biggest mouths – most on this blog. About 25% are skeptical and the rest believe in some measure.

Paul

May 4th, 2012
2:56 pm

The fact Heartland knows its audience is so gullible, uneducated, illogical and unthinking to believe the construct of

Osama had a mother.

Obama was a terrorist murderer.

People who have mothers are, like Osama, terrorist murders

means the rest of us should not be angry, scornful or harsh towards them..

But condescending, amazed and questioning of the human gene pool works.

Booyakasha

May 4th, 2012
2:57 pm

Heartland is a great American institute providing a great American service:

They are making Republicans look absurd

[...] New Billboards Compare Climate Scientists and Unabomber, Mass Murderers, Live Science Jay Bookman, An irrefutable argument from climate-change deniers, Atlanta Journal Constitution Bob Collins, Climate change, billboards, and mass murderers, [...]

getalife

May 4th, 2012
3:02 pm

Dumbed down.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
3:02 pm

Just out of curiosity, Jay, I would like to see to what you would attribute the obvious global warming that has occurred over the past couple of decades or so.

Jay

May 4th, 2012
3:04 pm

The increased concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, Crier.

ty webb

May 4th, 2012
3:04 pm

“Just out of curiosity, Jay, I would like to see to what you would attribute the obvious global warming that has occurred over the past couple of decades or so.’

oh, that’s easy…republicans.

getalife

May 4th, 2012
3:06 pm

I

“Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is calling early elections so that he and his government will be free to deal with Iran’s nuclear program this September-October, one of Israel’s best-informed political commentators said on Friday night”

Confident.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
3:07 pm

“The increased concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, Crier.”

If we could tomorrow know with all certainty the actual cause, would you bet the lives of your children on that position today? And, if so, why?

Paul

May 4th, 2012
3:07 pm

Aren’t any of the bloggers who deny mankind has any effect on the earth’s climate going to provide a reasoned support of Heartland’s tactic to dispute climate change?

Or is Heartland behind the times because, as one blogger noted the other day, even Fox now admits climate change is a reality because it has been documented by an entity they accept that windfarms in Texas cause climate change?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
3:07 pm

“The increased concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, Crier.”

Sorry ………… not everyone agrees with you.

“Solar ‘climate change’ could cause rougher space weather”

http://www.ras.org.uk/news-and-press/219-news-2012/2112-solar-climate-change-could-cause-rougher-space-weather

“Small Fluctuations In Solar Activity, Large Influence On Climate”

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090827141349.htm

Booyakasha

May 4th, 2012
3:08 pm

Republicans should be arguing over possible solutions and costs

Not the existence of the problem

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
3:10 pm

“Aren’t any of the bloggers who deny mankind has any effect on the earth’s climate going to provide a reasoned support of Heartland’s tactic to dispute climate change?”

I am not really familiar with Heartland. On purely logical grounds, it cannot be denied that 1) there has been a warming trend of late and 2) we cannot at this point in time know with certainty what factors and in what proportion are causing it.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
3:10 pm

Headline: “Biden Left Out of Top Campaign Meetings”

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-left-out-top-campaign-meetings_643153.html

Poor baby ……………..

nelsonhowar

May 4th, 2012
3:10 pm

I have heard so much about science. They have taken ice samples from the last 500,000 years and it has been only the last 100 years that the CO2 levels in the atmosphere have gone straight up. The temperature has been escalating dramatically in the last 10 years. The great Lakes were free of ice the earliest in history, boating in March. It is all there nice and scientific.

Paul

May 4th, 2012
3:11 pm

Scout

“Sorry ………… not everyone agrees with you.”

Time for a science refresher if the criteria is ‘everyone agrees.”

getalife

May 4th, 2012
3:12 pm

Planet vs money.

cons choose money.

I will go with the planet.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
3:12 pm

The post-Nixon Republicans are of course well known for being against protecting the environment. Their record is beyond pitiful.

The only green concern they have is the one that their bosses in the industrial and business arenas have – little pieces of paper with dead men on them.

This number is beyond shocking.

Slightly more than one out of 10 Republicans in the United States Congress believe global warming is happening and is a man-made problem.

I would suspect that the Georgia congress is even less than that.

Outside of Somalia, Chad and Ethiopia, and maybe Egypt, Iraq and Cambodia, show me even one other collection of people on the planet with numbers like that.

Paul

May 4th, 2012
3:13 pm

Towncrier

One doesn’t have to be familiar with Heartland. Their reasoning and method of persuasion are cited in Jay’s writing. That’s the issue. Not global warming or climate change or anything else. Those are just the subject Heartland used to reveal its thought process and persuasion tactics.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
3:14 pm

“Time for a science refresher if the criteria is ‘everyone agrees.”

I am not sure what you mean here.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
3:15 pm

Corporal, where are the articles about wobbles in the earth’s orbit, cow flatulence and El Pigbo’s proclamations that volcanoes are to blame?

Lucifer

May 4th, 2012
3:15 pm

The world is warming because of all those damn cows farting.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
3:15 pm

Booyakasha

May 4th, 2012
3:16 pm

Jays blog hurts the environment

His print columns are even worse

Logical Dude

May 4th, 2012
3:17 pm

Ty, Towncrier, Scout,

Can you answer this survey for me?
Which do you feel is the most accurate statement:
1) Global Warming is not happening. It is not true at all.
2) Global Warming is happening, there evidence showing that it is happening, but Man plays an insignificant part.
3) Global Warming is happening, There is evidene showing that it is happening, Man plays a significant part, but I don’t worry about it.
4) Global Warming is happening. There is evidence showing that it is happening, Man plays a significant part, I worry about it, but don’t think we as a population can do anything about it.
5) Global Warming is happening. There is evidence showing that it is happening, Man plays a significant part, and I am doing everything I can to reduce my impact.

Thank you for your input!

Really, I am curious to where each of you fall in this survey.

Get It Right

May 4th, 2012
3:18 pm

Byte Me, I didn’t state I agreed with them, just that I can’t blame the Heartland Institute for going this route. My point is that emotion trumps fact in media these days and it is sad that this method is used by anyone, whether they be alarmist or denier.

Jay, et al, Source for my information was “Golbal Warming Melts Away” by Randall Hoven. Sources he cited were: Combined Land-Surface Air and Sea-Surface Water Temperature Anomalies – NASA/GISS, Hadley Center of the UK Met Office, National Oceanic and Atmosphere Administration (NOAA) via the University of Colorado, Polar Research Group/Department of Atmospheric Science at the University of Illinois. The article seems well researched and thought out.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
3:18 pm

At least those countries I listed have grinding poverty as the reason for their scientific illiteracy.

What is the Republican excuse???

ragnar danneskjold

May 4th, 2012
3:18 pm

Given that the sole argument in favor of shackling our economy is the “endorsement” of people I never heard of, seems just as sound to oppose it on that basis.

Such “credentials” are the flaw of all leftist cult-based systems, where arguments are accepted, or rejected, based on who speaks. Conservatives could not care less whether the unibomber is for or against anything; leftists, of course, have to care as that is the entirety of their basis for the policy. As for me, global warming sounds like a beach-front buying opportunity in Northern Canada.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
3:19 pm

JamVet:

“Corporal, where are the articles about wobbles in the earth’s orbit, cow flatulence and El Pigbo’s proclamations that volcanoes are to blame?”

There are many scientists out there who have varied viewpoints.

My point is that “science” has been wrong before and thus a majority opinion has not always been correct.

Time will tell.

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:19 pm

Because climate change deniers can’t come up with anything better than ad hominem now. Nice.

You guys are LOSING this battle. This was always going to happen, you know.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
3:19 pm

“One doesn’t have to be familiar with Heartland. Their reasoning and method of persuasion are cited in Jay’s writing. That’s the issue. Not global warming or climate change or anything else. Those are just the subject Heartland used to reveal its thought process and persuasion tactics.”

I am inclined to disagree. You saw Jay’s response to my question and I would bet he is, yet again, setting up a kind of straw man to advance or persuade others to a certain belief. I hate to be cynical, but unless he categorically denies this, that is what it looks like to me.

rightwing troll

May 4th, 2012
3:19 pm

Hmmm… association… and the resident gullible wingnuts lap it up…

Ted Kaczynski is to global warming as Timothy McVey is to wingnuts…

Paul

May 4th, 2012
3:20 pm

Towncrier

Unanimity within the scientific community is not a criteria for acceptance or rejection.

It’s similar to what we see here when someone says “black holes exist in space. Science cites x, y and z to arrive at that conclusion’

and someone responds with “not ALL scientists believe black holes are real.”

Absolutes are the bane of thoughtful discussion.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
3:20 pm

Logical Dude :

Probably #2 right now …………… but that could change ………. either direction.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
3:20 pm

Corporal, is the Bush family profiting from those German subs?

Joseph

May 4th, 2012
3:22 pm

Jay its good to know you fall in that group with the Unibomber and Manson…. They are far left loons too….

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:22 pm

BTW, the unabomber should sue for use of his image without permission. But I suspect mug shots are public domain. Oh well.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
3:22 pm

P.S.

In my lifetime we have gone from a glacier is going to destroy Cleveland to we’re all going to melt.

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:23 pm

Scout: Why?

Are consenting adults allowed to do that?

What right to we have to tell her who to marry and how many times?

Huh?

If she had a legal contract to be married to all of them at once, I don’t see the problem. Oh wait, she can’t, because a legal contract between two people is the only feasible form of a marriage contract.

Get back to me when you can make a better point.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
3:24 pm

JamVet:

Yes. It’s the “GWB” !

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:24 pm

Oh btw, the Heartland institute and everyone who supports them in this recent effort ARE BEING DIVISIVE :lol: :lol:

I'm a "con" and a vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!! (That Black Guy)

May 4th, 2012
3:24 pm

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:08 pm
TBG: JKL2, you GOTS to know teh RULZ!!!

Called it!. Predictable. So predictable….
__________________________________________________________________________

Adam, if you don’t like people calling you out about “TEH RULZ”, then STOP telling other people what they can and can’t say in a post.

As far as your “Called it”, that’s like pizzing in the lobby of a police station and saying “watch me get arrested”

At the very least publish “teh rulz” so you don’t have to tell us when we are breaking one.

kthxbye

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
3:24 pm

Jay, et al, Source for my information was “Golbal Warming Melts Away” by Randall Hoven.

You know that Mr. Hoven is such an exemplary climatologist that he also argues against vaccinations. A jack of all trades? Master of none.

Don’t let someone cherry pick the data for you. Look to climatologists for the right information, not pundits.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
3:25 pm

“In my lifetime we have gone from a glacier is going to destroy Cleveland”

Where in the name of Allah did you come up with that lunacy?

Man, you must have done so damn good drugs in the jungle!

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
3:25 pm

“Oh wait, she can’t, because a legal contract between two people is the only feasible form of a marriage contract.”

No …………….. she can’t because it’s against the law.

Generation$crewed

May 4th, 2012
3:25 pm

It is getting warmer, but why?

Seriously, exactly why, what eveidence proves exactly what causes it and how that directly links to the earth warming?

Has been a massive increase in the amount of people on the planet…. Maybe it is man made, but what to do if we cause it simply by existing? Lots of folks breathing, and animals breathing to feed us.

Let’s all be honest and admit both sides on the extreame are wrong, as with most things.

Paul

May 4th, 2012
3:25 pm

Towncrier

Jay responded to a question you asked that did not concern Heartland’s tactics.

To then accuse him of attempting to set up a strawman strikes me as disingenuous.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
3:25 pm

JamVet:

It’s called hyperbole.

Paul

May 4th, 2012
3:27 pm

Josef

“Jay its good to know you fall in that group with the Unibomber and Manson…. They are far left loons too….”

Based on your exchange with Jay this morning regarding making stuff up and believing it….

Don’t you mean they are far Right loons?

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
3:27 pm

It is getting warmer, but why?

Because my damn a/c just broke… :(

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
3:27 pm

Well, as long as their business assets aren’t again seized under the Trading with the Enemy Act, like that time in 1942, we can all just go wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

Don't Tread

May 4th, 2012
3:28 pm

Climate change is caused by money…namely, other people having too much of it. So the obvious solution is: take it away from them.

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:28 pm

Towncrier: If we could tomorrow know with all certainty the actual cause, would you bet the lives of your children on that position today

We already know with certainty that is the reason. Where have you been the last 3 decades?

josef

May 4th, 2012
3:28 pm

Brosephus

“No shock for me on that one….”

Me either.
********************************

GETALIFE
“Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is calling early elections so that he and his government will be free to deal with Iran’s nuclear program this September-October, one of Israel’s best-informed political commentators said on Friday night”

Confident”

That’s pretty much what I figured the deal was he had worked out with Obama and why he came out smiling like the Cheshire Cat.

He lets the Israel feist off the leash, Bibi gets the brownie points to go back in, Iran gets a smackdown, Saudi Arabia, Gulf States, et al are secretly chuckling, publicly raising a ruckus, Obama chastizes Israel and slips them the new arms under the table and rattles some sabres,,,and everybody’s happy…

Logical Dude

May 4th, 2012
3:29 pm

Hi Scout,
Thank you for your response.

Even Heartland, in a subtle way, indicates they are #3.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
3:29 pm

“Really, I am curious to where each of you fall in this survey.”

Sorry, LD, I must decline. Figure out where I stand from my posts. The big issue for me is the proposed massive expenditure to avert or diminish further global warming when I am not at all convinced that a significant amount of that warming is attributable to the actions of mankind. I am not saying that I think we haven’t contributed to the warming as a commonsense conclusion, but boy would it ever be stupid to possibly wreck our economy on a false premise. Do I think we should take measures to reduce C02 emissions? Of course. But I feel we need to do it an cost effective manner.

Lucifer

May 4th, 2012
3:29 pm

Obama needs to constantly remind voters that Romney hides his money in Swiss bank accounts to avoid paying U.S. taxes. What kind of person runs for president and has the gall to launder his profits in off-short bank accounts and other countries? He’s a great example of someone “who loves his country.” Willard, who has somewhat of a spoiled brat quality, really is in store for a big disappointment in November. I would like to see him fade away into oblivion. I’m sick of hearing his flip flops and constant fabrications, exaggerations and outright bald-face lies. The guy would poison his own grandmother if she stood in the way of his ambitions.

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
3:29 pm

Maybe it is man made, but what to do if we cause it simply by existing?

By “existing” do you mean by destroying old growth rain forests, pumping billions of tons of carbon-based pollutants into the air each year, and so on?

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:29 pm

Scout: Sorry, but your solar activity argument is old and WRONG. Also debunked: http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm

Want to know the real reasons? See here: http://climate.nasa.gov/

You know, that liberal HACK NASA.

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:30 pm

“Time for a science refresher if the criteria is ‘everyone agrees.”

I am not sure what you mean here.

Color me shocked.

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
3:30 pm

josef @ 3:28

I’m with you on that last part for sure

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:31 pm

The world is warming because of all those damn cows farting.

And humans have NOTHING AT ALL to do with that, right?

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
3:31 pm

“We already know with certainty that is the reason. Where have you been the last 3 decades?”

No…we do not. The only way we could know that with certainty is if where able to isolate the possible factors causing it. I shouldn’t need to explain that to you.

josef

May 4th, 2012
3:31 pm

PAUL
@ 3:27

Was I exchanging with Jay on here today? I just got home…fill me in…

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
3:32 pm

My position on this is:

1. Global warming is happening.
2. Man caused the bulk of it; holding all other variables constant, we’re the primary cause of the change.
3. When it gets to “crisis” levels, someone will build a giant flying machine that will convert high atmosphere pollutants into diamonds via temperature and pressure. :)

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:33 pm

TBG: Adam, if you don’t like people calling you out about “TEH RULZ”

Oh no, I quite enjoy it. By all means, keep going. It entertains me.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
3:34 pm

“Color me shocked.”

I was giving Paul the benefit of the doubt, thinking possibly his response was not a put-down (because anyone who has studied the history of science knows that there has seldom been unanimity of believe among scientists). But thanks for providing the put-down he may not have.

josef

May 4th, 2012
3:34 pm

BOTH

I caught part of that exchange last p.m. on Obama and Israel…the right’s got a long way to go to show how our relationship to Israel has changed under Obama. If anything, it’s cozier than it’s been in a long time…

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
3:34 pm

“Figure out where I stand from my posts.”

Rick Perry’s November 2010 book Fed Up!: Our Fight to Save America from Washington:

Chapter 3: Al Gore Is Part Of A Conspiracy To Deny The Existence Of Global Cooling

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:34 pm

Scout: And it’s against the law because it’s not a feasible form of legal marriage contract. A legal marriage contract between two people is.

Paul

May 4th, 2012
3:36 pm

josef

Sorry, I meant “JosePH” Joseph.

This morning he posted some stuff, Jay said how he makes stuff up, then believes it, then treats it as fact and pretty much cites his imagination as proof.

So when he said people the Heartland Institute cited sound like far left loons (the guys cited were insane) I had to gently inquire if he didn’t, based upon his prior posts, mean far right loons.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
3:36 pm

Headline: “Obama Abolishes the Press Conference”

“President Obama has held just one full length, multi-topic, solo press conference in the last six months, effectively abolishing the most accessible venue for American citizens to observe the thinking and learn the views of their leader.”

http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2012/05/04/obama-abolishes-press-conference/

CAN’T TAKE THE HEAT.

Logical Dude

May 4th, 2012
3:36 pm

Towncrier: I am not at all convinced that a significant amount of that warming is attributable to the actions of mankind

Okay, sounds close to number 2 on that one, with other parts of your post combining pieces of other numbers (particularly about taking action).

I agree wrecking the economy is stupid. But at least recognition that man is causing harm to the planet is a step that many still need to take before ANY action is taken.

I’m with the camp that is similar to the boy scouts. Leave the place better than you found it.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
3:37 pm

Adam:

“And it’s against the law because it’s not a feasible form of legal marriage contract. A legal marriage contract between two people is.”

And you make my point.

So why do “we” have the right to make that a law?

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:38 pm

Towncrier: No…we do not. The only way we could know that with certainty is if where able to isolate the possible factors causing it. I shouldn’t need to explain that to you.

Actually, we do have certainty. Just not 100% certainty, which is not what is required. We also don’t have 100% certainty about the laws of gravity. But we are pretty damn certain about it. THAT is what I meant. And I shouldn’t need to explain that to YOU.

Don't Tread

May 4th, 2012
3:38 pm

“Obama Abolishes the Press Conference”

He’s just helpin with global warming with less “sunshine”.

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:38 pm

Scout: So why do “we” have the right to make that a law?

You know what? You’re right. Let’s outlaw marriage altogether.

josef

May 4th, 2012
3:38 pm

PAUL

Thanks…was just wondering if I had been namejacked…you know what that’s like…

Paul

May 4th, 2012
3:40 pm

josef

Yeah, and I also know from the context and what was written, no one would ever have thought that was you!

josef

May 4th, 2012
3:40 pm

BOTH

BTW, did y’all ever decide what to do with me and my kind last p.m. :-)

j$

May 4th, 2012
3:41 pm

Where the heck was this billboard and who is Heartland?

I saw this billboard on the road earlier today:

http://www.makesweet.com/share/show/0cd14d5e/

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
3:41 pm

josef

It was crazy and I should have left it alone after 100 posts. I basically ended up stooping to the level and maybe worse then the person posting that bs

“obama and his ‘allies” are preparing to blow Israel off the map”…………… and it appeared he really believed it; to the point of offering up an Op Ed as factual evidence to what I asked him

oh well………

It is Friday. Hope you are having a good day

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
3:42 pm

josef

I’m good with it…………. live and let live

The “veiled” phobias coming from my “opponent” …… were not as well hidden as he thought

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
3:44 pm

I’m rather disappointed that none of our GOP climatologists here have mentioned the conspiracy to change the name from global warming to climate change!

Even so, the outliers in the lunatic fringe are becoming more and more isolated:

Less than a third of conservative Republicans say there is solid evidence for global warming, but 63% of moderate or liberal Republicans said they believe there is solid evidence for global warming, a 22% jump from 2009.

And worse, your socialist soon-to-be nominee is a traitor!

In June 2011, Mitt Romney said “I believe the world is getting warmer, and I believe that humans have contributed to that.”

Or has he flopped on that issue too?

Stay ignorant, my friends

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
3:44 pm

“Jay responded to a question you asked that did not concern Heartland’s tactics. To then accuse him of attempting to set up a strawman strikes me as disingenuous.”

Huh? I am not following you here. His position, I take it from his response, is directly counter to Heartland’s. He attacks their “tactics”. For what purpose (actions such as writing a column about a particular subject always have motivations, you should know)? To condemn such tactics in general? If that is so, you should be able to point me to columns in which he attacks similar “tactics” used by liberals (or do you suppose that they are beneath liberals?). But without such evidence, then what I am to assume his motivation if for writing this column? I am all ears.

josef

May 4th, 2012
3:44 pm

PAUL
:-) You, too…

BOTH

“It is Friday. Hope you are having a good day”

Let’s just put it this way, luckily I didn’t have a minute to think about it while it was going on, and now that I’m home and it’s over, no desire to think it over! :-)

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
3:44 pm

josef

Of course I do not know you anymore than our exchanges on this blog, however on that issue……… I got your back

Hope you know that

Booyakasha

May 4th, 2012
3:45 pm

Jay’s car is killing the planet

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
3:45 pm

jo, the bigoted b*llsh*t got so deep, I checked out early last night!

Booyakasha

May 4th, 2012
3:46 pm

Is Jay a 1%er?

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
3:47 pm

booyakasha

My guess………….. a 5 or 10% er, but that could be high

Booyakasha

May 4th, 2012
3:47 pm

Jamvet checked out long ago

Presumably from a mental institution :)

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
3:47 pm

Meat, how would you know?

You have no earthly idea what even constitutes one.

Stay ignorant, my friend!

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
3:47 pm

“Actually, we do have certainty. Just not 100% certainty, which is not what is required. We also don’t have 100% certainty about the laws of gravity. But we are pretty damn certain about it. THAT is what I meant. And I shouldn’t need to explain that to YOU.”

Nice try, ace. Please point me to an individual or group claiming the laws of gravity are no to be believed. We don’t have anywhere near that “certainty” about the caused of global warming (except perhaps in your own head) – to suggest an equivalence is almost stupid.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
3:48 pm

But kudos on correctly spelling all four words!

Booyakasha

May 4th, 2012
3:48 pm

I bet jay is a 1%er

Or very close

Thulsa Doom

May 4th, 2012
3:49 pm

The global warming alarmists do have a point. The earth did warm an entire 8 tenths of one stinking degree over the last 100 years of fossil fuel burning. God forbid that it should go up another degree over the next 100 years. The sky is falling. The sky is falling!

Lord Help Us

May 4th, 2012
3:49 pm

How about evolution TC?

Do you believe the bible or Darwin?

josef

May 4th, 2012
3:51 pm

BOTH

Yeah, it’s a relief and I do thank you for it…to be honest, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy to have a straight person take them on saying what is really just plain, common sense…no political agenda, no politically correct, just plain respect and common sense…

Me and Scout and Dell have tangled on it before and while I try to respect their religious beliefs, they do do a lot of two stepping there, too. Now, JKL? As Uncle Jed would say…wheee doggies! It’s the same fascination I get picking at a scabby wound! (eeewww!)

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
3:51 pm

It does not matter about certainty.

A sickeningly large percentage of Republicans don’t even believe in evolution.

Though the theory has been widely accepted by educated people for over 150 years and is the very basis for many modern sciences, including biology.

Which explains why only Turkey is lower on the list of 32 industrialized countries with alower percentage.

The cons are imbeciles…

RIP MCA

May 4th, 2012
3:52 pm

Pourin one…..

*weep*

Generation$crewed

May 4th, 2012
3:52 pm

ByteMe – Political thug
May 4th, 2012
3:27 pm

That sucks hopefully not too expensive.

Why do AC’s always seem to break at the start of summer instead of the end

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
3:52 pm

Adam:

Thanks for conceding.

If the law can’t restrict marriage to a man and a woman then it can’t restrict it to anything.

Peadawg

May 4th, 2012
3:52 pm

Off topic but this is the BS I’m talking about w/ regards to Obama:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/04/politics/obama-student-loans/index.html

One week he threatens to veto a student loan bill, the next week he’s spouting to students how important a bill is.

Paul

May 4th, 2012
3:53 pm

Peadawg

Have you researched why he threatened a veto?

Thulsa Doom

May 4th, 2012
3:53 pm

“I take it from his response, is directly counter to Heartland’s. He attacks their “tactics”.”

Towncrier,

Very valid point. Jay never tried to debate Heartland’s science. Just their billboards. Very fallacious form of argument.

I wonder if the liberals caught that? Probably not.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
3:53 pm

BTW, those dolts in the Tea Party?

Only 11% believe in Anthropogenic Climate Change…

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
3:54 pm

josef:

What are you accusing me of “two-stepping” about ……………….. :o ?

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
3:54 pm

josef

You are without a doubt most certainly welcome…….. While the overall discussion got out of hand with me being jsut as guilty, it was a pleasure to combat with fact instead of phobia

Judge Judy

May 4th, 2012
3:54 pm

“The cons are imbeciles…”

So are the liberals.

kayaker 71

May 4th, 2012
3:55 pm

AJC Headline….. “Shrinking Economy Provides only 114K jobs in the month of April”.

Yet unemployment figures go from 8.2% to 8.1%. Who would bet that by October of this year that the unemployment numbers will be at 7.8% although we still have a “shrinking economy”? Spin…… the mother of all political bull sh*t.

josef

May 4th, 2012
3:55 pm

THULSA

Put down the memo. You’re educated enough to know the significance of just that. We’re in trouble. We’ve overpopulated the planet and Mother Nature is a b*tch…she’ll be taking a bottle of A-200 to the place and comb us out with a fine toothed comb…and unlike a lot of the Pollyanas, I really don’t think there’s a helluva lot we can do about it…

Dr. Beaulieu

May 4th, 2012
3:56 pm

There is no doubt the climate is changing; the only debate is over the cause. And that simply isn’t settled.

Jay

May 4th, 2012
3:56 pm

Very valid point. Jay never tried to debate Heartland’s science.

That would presume that Heartland has science in the first place. Given its choice of debating tactics, it does not.

Peadawg

May 4th, 2012
3:56 pm

“Have you researched why he threatened a veto?” – Yup, and his reason is absolutely hilarious. The bill threatens to cut a part of Obamacare that Obama himself wanted to cut in his own freakin’ budget. He’s playing a political game and it’s ridiculous.

Paul

May 4th, 2012
3:56 pm

They BOTH

“it was a pleasure to combat with fact instead of phobia”

On this blog?!!?

Did it work?

:-)

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

May 4th, 2012
3:56 pm

Well, it’s well past Bookman’s quitting time for Friday. Where’s the danged music?

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:57 pm

Towncrier: Please point me to an individual or group claiming the laws of gravity are no to be believed.

Science is not the art of collecting opinion polls. So nice try yourself, ace.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
3:57 pm

“The cons are scientifically illiterate imbeciles…”

(For those who cannot figure out context.)

Talking Head

May 4th, 2012
3:57 pm

Is there more CO2 in the atmosphere? Sure

Has the Earth been warming recently? Sure

COULD some of the rising temps be a direct result of humans? Sure

Could some of the rising temps be from the Sun? Sure

However, trading ‘carbon credits’ and placing taxes based on something we don’t fully understand is insane.

josef

May 4th, 2012
3:57 pm

SCOUT

You and two stepping? Sex, religion and politics! :-)

Fred Flintstone

May 4th, 2012
3:57 pm

“Only 11% believe in Anthropogenic Climate Change…”

What the hell is anteropomo….. Dammit. Willlllma!!!!

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
3:58 pm

To Jay’s point. WHAT science?

Absurd.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
3:58 pm

“Though the theory has been widely accepted by educated people for over 150 years and is the very basis for many modern sciences, including biology.”

There have been many widely accepted beliefs throughout history that have later been proven to be false. So that means nothing to me (nor should it to anyone else). A belief must be assessed on the merit of evidence offered in support of it. Without appealing to authority, please outline in your own words the evidence which proves Darwin’s theory correct.

Paul

May 4th, 2012
3:58 pm

Recneck Convert

Right here.

Just for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTVj5lIkxp4

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
3:59 pm

Paul

Now that is another story

Paul

May 4th, 2012
4:00 pm

Now the discussion is moving from not denying the reality of man’s impact on the climate, to what to do about it.

Progress.

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:00 pm

Dr. Beaulieu:

“There is no doubt the climate is changing; the only debate is over the cause. And that simply isn’t settled.”

Yep. Climatology as a scientific discipline is still in its infancy…something the climatologists will be the first to tell you. The problem is that neither “side” making memo-riddled partisanship political hay is listening…

I'm a "con" and a vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!! (That Black Guy)

May 4th, 2012
4:00 pm

Adam

May 4th, 2012
3:33 pm
TBG: Adam, if you don’t like people calling you out about “TEH RULZ”

Oh no, I quite enjoy it. By all means, keep going. It entertains me.
____________________________________________________________________________

No problem.

As long as you continue to tell only those you disagree with what they can and can not say (post), I will continue to point out your “THE RULZ”.

Also, using your logic, will you admonish others when the use the phrase “Obama Derangement Syndrome” since the first us was “Bush Derangement Syndrome”?

Somehow I doubt it.

Adam

May 4th, 2012
4:01 pm

However, trading ‘carbon credits’ and placing taxes based on something we don’t fully understand is insane.

Agreed. But also not what we were talking about.

Yes, cap and trade is dumb. NOT admitting that carbon emissions of various sources are contributing to warming in a statistically significant way, such that our human activities are the MAJOR cause of the climate change all over the world, is also dumb.

I'm a "con" and a vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!! (That Black Guy)

May 4th, 2012
4:01 pm

TBS, wuzzup?

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:01 pm

“So that means nothing to me.”

Obviously.

Welcome to Turkey.

Logical Dude

May 4th, 2012
4:01 pm

Only 11% believe in Anthropogenic Climate Change

Did they use those big words in the survey?
I’d say 50% didn’t understand the question if they did.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

May 4th, 2012
4:01 pm

Peadawg

it appears you did not do your research…again.

Obama already did the cutting,to save the payroll tax cut.

Gosh almighty.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:02 pm

“Yep. Climatology as a scientific discipline is still in its infancy…something the climatologists will be the first to tell you. The problem is that neither “side” making memo-riddled partisanship political hay is listening…”

Well said, Josef.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:03 pm

“Obviously. Welcome to Turkey.”

That’s your defense of Darwin’s theory? In that case, I would say it fails ;-)

Erwin's cat

May 4th, 2012
4:03 pm

carlosgw – “Almost all the world’s leading climatologists agree that we humans are mainly responsible for global warming. Obviously, Heartland is just a mouthpiece for Big Business, those who value profit above all else and will use any type of lie to keep the money coming in.”
like there’s no money and profit to be made in promoting the man made GGC theory?…yes I said theory

Adam

May 4th, 2012
4:03 pm

TBG: As long as you continue to tell only those you disagree with what they can and can not say (post), I will continue to point out your “THE RULZ”.

Great! I could always use a laugh. I look forward to continuing to predict that you will do this over and over again, giving me more and more attention, credit, and power than I rightly deserve. I will accept the attention, credit, and power that you so willingly give away. :)

Also, using your logic, will you admonish others when the use the phrase “Obama Derangement Syndrome” since the first us was “Bush Derangement Syndrome”?

What exactly gives you the idea that my logic is even remotely like what you seem to think it is?

Generation$crewed

May 4th, 2012
4:04 pm

ByteMe – Political thug
May 4th, 2012
3:29 pm

Nah, that’s not what I meant.

More along the lines of earthy, mother nature type. As in, possibly it is a cleaning of itself. Was meant more as a joke. But have u noticed a connection between climate change and a growth in population exceeding any growth rates world wide in history?

Just an observation, I do not know exactly why it is getting warmer, maybe just a cycle may not. The earth and universe are kinda tricky, lots of unknowns.

Just think its wise to be open to all possibilities, but it appears from your post you seem to have it figured out. Good for you

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
4:04 pm

TBG

What is going on my man? Hope you have had a good week.

It is Friday and that is a great thing……………

If you are still riding this weekend……… hope you have an awesome time

Peadawg

May 4th, 2012
4:04 pm

“Obama already did the cutting,to save the payroll tax cut.

Gosh almighty.”

I don’t remember Obama’s budget ever getting passed…got link?

Fred Flintstone

May 4th, 2012
4:05 pm

Dinosaurs caused the planet to warm

Fat buggers

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:05 pm

“Science is not the art of collecting opinion polls.”

No, I guess for you it is more of a priesthood. I wish I could say I admire your faith.

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

May 4th, 2012
4:06 pm

Kooky conservatives

Thulsa Doom

May 4th, 2012
4:06 pm

“However, trading ‘carbon credits’ and placing taxes based on something we don’t fully understand is insane.”

Yep. Just ask German taxpayers who helped pay for carbon credits to the UN to help fund a Chinese dam that was going to be built anyway. The whole nonsense is nothing more than getting prosperous western nations to feel guilty and share their wealth in the form of carbon credits to less developed nations. JMDO

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:07 pm

Take your puerile issues with Darwin – one of the most respected figures in the history of science, especially in the field of biology – up with the world’s experts.

Oh, that’s right. That is an appeal to authority!

Jeebus, Jobus and Maria.

What is the point?

One could get more rational discourse from precocious fifth graders…

Adam

May 4th, 2012
4:08 pm

GS: So if human population has a possible connection, and human emit CO2 when they breathe out, would this not indicate that man is contributing to the greenhouse gases?

How about the cows? Since we breed so many more of them than exist in nature, and they fart greenhouse gases, would this not indicate a human caused addition to greenhouse gases?

And if cars also emit CO2, and there’s a large number of those, and plants and other industrial machines emit CO2 and other greenhouse gases, and those are on the rise, then would that not indicate human activity as contributing to greenhouse gases?

Finally, if ALL of the above are happening AT THE SAME TIME, would you not begin to see that as a significant change in the global environment?

GT

May 4th, 2012
4:08 pm

Kaczynsky loves the billboard and wants to send Heartland a thank you note that they will be receiving in the mail very soon.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
4:09 pm

josef:

That’s three ………………… :o

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:10 pm

OK, this has gone WAY past absurd into the land of Republican SciFy.

Time to rock, maestro Jay!

Thulsa Doom

May 4th, 2012
4:10 pm

Finn McCool (The System Isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

May 4th, 2012
4:06 pm
Kooky conservatives

Finn Uncool,

I’ve been calling you guys the kook left for quite awhile now. I guessing due to your continuing lack of original thinking you can’t think of anything to call the righties so you just copy the word kook from my various postings. Your welcome. You can use the term kook. But only cause I feel sorry for you that you can’t think of anything on your own.

barking frog

May 4th, 2012
4:11 pm

If you can’t stand the heat
go to moonbase Newt,
it’s cold there.

Adam

May 4th, 2012
4:11 pm

Towncrier: No, I guess for you it is more of a priesthood.

Do please show me where I have simply taken science on faith. Is it that I “believe” that the data they are showing me is accurate and says what they say it says? Yes… so much FAITH is involved in all that. I guess the only way to know for sure is if I duplicate the experiment myself… Hey! not a bad idea. Hmmm, looks like I don’t have EXACTLY the same planet in a test environment with EXACTLY the same variables, so I guess what I should do is then just assume they are wrong. And if I assume they are wrong, that is surely not faith in my assumption. Oh no….

Adam

May 4th, 2012
4:12 pm

Thulsa: I’ve been calling you guys the kook left for quite awhile now. I guessing due to your continuing lack of original thinking you can’t think of anything to call the righties so you just copy the word kook from my various postings

Hey, let me give you a hint: This crap you’re trying to do to inflate your own ego isn’t working. But it IS making me laugh. So carry on :lol:

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:13 pm

“Take your puerile issues with Darwin – one of the most respected figures in the history of science, especially in the field of biology – up with the world’s experts. Oh, that’s right. That is an appeal to authority!”

Dude, I am simply asking you to show that you believe Darwin’s theory NOT because you were told it was true AND not because you are an atheist BUT because you have independently assessed the evidence and rationale for it and have concluded the claim is true. If you have done so, you should be able to say so in your own words. This is not a personal attack.

Joseph

May 4th, 2012
4:14 pm

Just one person stands in the way of creating thousands of new jobs from the Keystone pipeline…

That Black Guy who is a "con" and a Vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!!!!

May 4th, 2012
4:15 pm

I am all ears.

That’s what Obama said.

barking frog

May 4th, 2012
4:16 pm

What is the current plan
proposed by huge majority
of scientists that endorse
manmade global warming
to combat it?

David Granger

May 4th, 2012
4:17 pm

Maybe we should make one of those “Julia” ads to counter these billboards…

Thulsa Doom

May 4th, 2012
4:17 pm

“This crap you’re trying to do to inflate your own ego isn’t working.”- Psychologist Adam at work.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:17 pm

Crier, that is just nonsense.

I have no real depth of knowledge about how Warfarin controls my Thrombolin 3 imbalance and prevents me from getting more blood clots. Though I have read massive amounts of information about them and deep venal thrombosis. Along with a host of other related topics.

But do I discount, out of hand, the medical doctors and their VAST knowledge because I don’t?

Of course not, unless I want to die.

I defer to experts.

Not shaman and kooks (hat tip Doomy)

Speaking of which, Doomy, you are one of the few cats I know who can go toe to toe with me in an Insult Off!

Stay belligerent, my friend!

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:17 pm

CRIER

Having specialized in the humanities myself, you can figure MY opinion of the scientists and THEIR priesthood!

Their “believers” are overall pompous, know it all asses so taken with the little bit they have figured out (most of it of the duh school, imauo) about this infinite universe we call home…shoot, we;re just a few thousand years out of the caves…

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
4:17 pm

“Yes, cap and trade is dumb.”

I wouldn’t be so sure of that. It’s been HIGHLY successful in the fight against acid rain

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
4:18 pm

Jay

Where is the upstairs Friday addition?

FNM, FNM

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

May 4th, 2012
4:18 pm

Peadawg

You think it was in the budget?

You weren’t paying attention during the payroll tax extension fight?

Good Lord, it just happened in February!

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:19 pm

“I am all ears.

That’s what Obama said.”

LOL!

Seems like I would have heard that one before (As it appeals to my fifth grade humor!) But I guess I haven’t!

Kudos, black hombre…

Erwin's cat

May 4th, 2012
4:19 pm

Adam,
care to explain “statistical significance” significance level, p-values and null hypothesis?

That Black Guy who is a "con" and a Vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!!!!

May 4th, 2012
4:19 pm

They BOTH suck May 4th, 2012 4:04 pm

Link Report this comment

TBG

What is going on my man? Hope you have had a good week.

It is Friday and that is a great thing……………

If you are still riding this weekend……… hope you have an awesome time
——————————-
TBS, nah I’ve been sick all week so I’m going to take it easy.
Gonna order the Mayweather Cotto fight and chill.

barking frog

May 4th, 2012
4:20 pm

volcanoes erupt everyday.
Yellowstone if it erupts
will destroy most if not
all of the US. what plans
are made to deal with
that?

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:21 pm

ZamVet

Warfarin is rat poison…and it ain’t kilt you yet… :-)

SCOUT
Nyanh…just one…they’re all the same thing at the level we discuss them here… :-)

Adam

May 4th, 2012
4:21 pm

Out for the day. See you all later!

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
4:22 pm

“Just one person stands in the way of creating thousands of new jobs from the Keystone pipeline…”

Yep, the Republican Governor of Nebraska.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:23 pm

“Do please show me where I have simply taken science on faith. Is it that I “believe” that the data they are showing me is accurate and says what they say it says?”

I think your faith rests not so much in supplied data (which may be accurate, skewed or sometimes even falsified) but in methodology. Theirs is a statistical analysis based on certain assumptions. If those assumption are comprehensive and correct, and the reasoning from them is also correct, then we may feel relatively certain about the conclusions reached. You seem to think that, without explaining past dramatic climatic changes without increased man-made C02 emissions and without ruling out other obvious and known causal events (such as solar activity), the methodology they have used is correct. I disagree on purely logical grounds. My beef with you is you somehow suggesting what I have said here is ignorant or idiotic. I am not the only one who has such qualms. There are a number of very smart men who would say essentially the same thing. And that is why I liken your science to a priesthood.

Peadawg

May 4th, 2012
4:24 pm

Again, Granny…I never read any of this the past 2 weeks in the articles on CNN, Yahoo, AJC, etc. about the veto threat. They all said the GOP was wanting to cut something Obama proposed in his budget…no mention of the payroll tax.

If you have a link, please post it.

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
4:25 pm

TBG

hope you get to feeling better

Not sure if I will have a chance to catch the fight……..

Cotto has a “punchers chance” because he is known to throw those hands and not be apprehensive……. however that will probably be his downfall. Mayweather will be able to counter and take control after a few rounds…..imo

Hopefully it is a good fight or at least decent

my prediction: Mayweather in 9 or less

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:25 pm

“Warfarin is rat poison”

Ya think i don’t know that you uppity Hebe!

More and more I just act like a rat!

LOL at me!

i don’t know about you boys, but I’m gonna start drinkin’…

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
4:25 pm

“Warfarin is rat poison”

Not exactly. Warfarin is a vitamin K inhibitor that is USED as rat poison.

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:26 pm

BOTH

Whatcha wanna bet he’s surfin sumpin for Cinco de Mayo…the great Gringo holiday! :-)

And SCOUT…
Wunner how he’s gonna two-step the Late Misunderstanding and THAT one… :-)

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
4:27 pm

josef

Maybe Freddy Fender

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:27 pm

David Eugene “Dave” Heineman (born May 12, 1948) is the 39th and current Governor of Nebraska. He is a member of the Republican Party, and the current Chairman of the National Governors Association.

Heineman lived in a variety of places in eastern Nebraska during his youth, eventually attending high school in Wahoo, Nebraska. He graduated from the United States Military Academy in 1970. He served five years in the U.S. Army, leaving with the rank of captain. He also graduated the Army Ranger training program.

By GOP standards, he is a moderate.

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:28 pm

Doggone

Picky, picky, picky! :-)

Thulsa Doom

May 4th, 2012
4:28 pm

Erwin’s cat

May 4th, 2012
4:19 pm
Adam,
care to explain “statistical significance” significance level, p-values and null hypothesis?

Erwin”s cat,

I think you ran him off with that one. I know what you are getting and talking about but not being a great math and science guy I can’t explain it nearly as well. It would be better if you enlightened myself and others who would like to hear more as it regards the science concerning the gw debate.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:29 pm

“But do I discount, out of hand, the medical doctors and their VAST knowledge because I don’t?”

Well, buddy, I hope you never have an experience that causes you to do so (like some in my family have had) – not because I secretly hope you give up on medical science but because, despite my aggravation with you a lot of times, I truly wish you no harm. Seeing what some have experienced from medical science, I now liken it to a small clearing in a vast forest. I mean, they know but a fraction of what is to be known and they are continually reversing themselves.

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
4:29 pm

“Picky, picky, picky!”

Yeah, well…you know how it is!

That Black Guy who is a "con" and a Vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!!!!

May 4th, 2012
4:30 pm

Adam, you’re a smart dude and usually I enjoy (even “gasp” learn) from some of your posts.

I only chime in when you jump on your high horse and tell others what they can and cannot say.

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:31 pm

BOTH

That’d be a good one… or maybe for us old f*rts Ritchie Valens…

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:32 pm

“Their “believers” are overall pompous, know it all asses so taken with the little bit they have figured out (most of it of the duh school, imauo) about this infinite universe we call home…shoot, we;re just a few thousand years out of the caves…”

You have a witty way of putting thing, Josef. Thanks for the laugh ;-)

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:33 pm

Doggone

“Yeah, well…you know how it is!”

Don’t I just! My stock in trade… !

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
4:36 pm

“Don’t I just! My stock in trade… !”

Speaking of your stock in trade…my sister and I have a game we call “They should have hired me as a proof-reader” for things we see in print or hear on TV or the radio.

The latest on our list? I heard a car company ad that said “No first payment”

Does that mean they are giving them away for free?

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:37 pm

FORMAL BLACK GUY

Adam’s still a bit wet behind the ears… he’s gonna be alright,,,

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:37 pm

“despite my aggravation with you a lot of times, I truly wish you no harm.”

And right back at ya, tc.

(I’m all bark and no bite!)

I’m just glad that six and half years on, I’m still in the game! Cuz this dog came within a few hours of checking out…

And to the wonderful doctors, nurses, staff and volunteers at the VA Medical Hospital, I can never repay my enduring gratitude!

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:40 pm

“I agree wrecking the economy is stupid. But at least recognition that man is causing harm to the planet is a step that many still need to take before ANY action is taken.”

I am not arguing that we (mankind) are having no effect. That would seem almost impossible. But it may be very insignificant (say less than 1%). I simply don’t know with any degree of certainty. But, on the chance our contribution may be more significant, I am ready to support cost effective measures to reduce our “carbon footprint” – even if only, in the end, it turns out to just leave us with cleaner air. My main thought, however, regarding this problem is to come up with an entirely new and different energy resource (maybe like taking hydrogen from water) like we should have decades ago.

I’m with the camp that is similar to the boy scouts. Leave the place better than you found it.

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:40 pm

DOGGONE

When I worked in the newspaper, we had a wall of “the one’s that DIDN’T get away…” Unmentionable and my Mama were like you and your sister…constantly sending their classics back and forth…

No first payment, eh…he should’ve gone there for Geronimo’s Cadillac! :-)

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:41 pm

OK, cornball time.

My sister-in-law sent me an email with an obvious Star Wars motif – May the 4th be with You!

carlosgvv

May 4th, 2012
4:42 pm

Jay, Big Business, who uses Heartland the same way they use the NRA, know exactly what they are doing. By promoting this kind of advertising, they make it clear they will use any and all tactics, no matter how base and disgusting, to keep the profits coming in. Their Republican lackeys are confident that the conservative electorate are so gullible they will believe anything they are told, including anything from Heartland.

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
4:43 pm

“No first payment, eh…he should’ve gone there for Geronimo’s Cadillac!”

May favorite one that ALMOST got away I heard hears ago. Had to do with using your seatbelts. The way I heard it and ad campaign got to the desk of the top guy at the ad agency before he killed it.

The slogan? “If you love your kids, belt ‘em”

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
4:43 pm

TC

I do tend to lean more toward to GW side, however the science is still new and time will tell……

With that said, your post @ 4:40 was well stated and I must say that I do agree

I'm a "con" and a vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!! (That Black Guy)

May 4th, 2012
4:43 pm

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
4:25 pm
TBG

hope you get to feeling better

Not sure if I will have a chance to catch the fight……..

Cotto has a “punchers chance” because he is known to throw those hands and not be apprehensive……. however that will probably be his downfall. Mayweather will be able to counter and take control after a few rounds…..imo

Hopefully it is a good fight or at least decent

my prediction: Mayweather in 9 or less
________________________________________________
I agree with you on Cotto, and I agree Mayweather will win, but I think it will be a decision. If Margareto (sp) couldn’t knock Cotto out and he had plaster of paris in his gloves, I don’t think Floyd will be able to.

The undercard will be a great fight as well.

Shane Mosley against Canelo Alvarez.

Alvarez is a BEAST with both hands.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:43 pm

“And to the wonderful doctors, nurses, staff and volunteers at the VA Medical Hospital, I can never repay my enduring gratitude!”

One thing I have learned from you JV is to appreciate how good the VA medicine really is (I think you made that point in support of Obamacare). I believe you are right. Anyone who has read my posts will know that I have a low opinion of government in general (and, as a disclaimer, let me also say I do not LOVE corporations!), but you have encouraged me to know that at least some of the times government does alright.

Mary Elizabeth

May 4th, 2012
4:44 pm

Towncrier,

To respond to the content of your post, to me, I will address the last paragraph first.

You mention that you and I have different world views, which I have acknowledged. However, you go on to speak in terms of “sides,” and the need, as you see it, “to be willing to get input from more than one side.” You speak of the “liberal sources” that you “draw from and you state that you are “not at all certain that ( I ) draw from sources that offer differing views.” You asked, “Where have you conceded conservative arguments or positions or points?”

I do not perceive in terms of “two sides” of reality, political or otherwise. And although I am a liberal and although I am an advocate for most liberal positions, I do not see my reality in terms of simply liberal thinking. Likewise, regarding yourself, that is why I told you that I did not know you in any specific depth. We are all multilayered in our thinking and to limit our thinking to simply one “side” or the other is to limit our humanity. In a sense, there may be four or five “sides” or even 500 or 500,000 “sides,” depending upon how large we see the “pie” and how small we see the pieces of the pie, by analogy. The pie represents the total of human consciousness, and the slices, or pieces of the pie, represent indivdual human consciousness. The total of human consciousness is sometimes referred to as the human collective consciousness. We overlap some others in our thinking, and in our being, more than with others, but we all have some areas of commonality and that is what makes us human. And that is, also, what defines us as sane.

I will turn 70 this year and over the decades I think that I know how my particular mind works pretty well. (BTW, I would very much like to know your age if you are not adverse to sharing it publicly. Knowing that factor helps in understanding part of the perspectives from which others come.) I see reality through the eyes of an artist and I always have. I believe it is genetic. Therefore, what is of primary importance to me is getting at truth, in depth, and not surface realities or dichotomies of thinking. I studied drama in my youth because of that natural leaning. When an actor portrays a character, he does not list all the ways that character is positive and all the ways that character is negative and then tallies the two “sides” to see if the character is a hero or a villain. He works to understand the character in truth and in depth including the character’s history, his parents’ histories, his place of birth and his life’s experiences, his physical appearance, his intelligence, his emotional capacity, his sensitivity, his social ability or lack thereof, his hidden agendas. I could go on and on. This is multidimensional thinking and understanding. When one puts that all together, one comes up with a richer understanding than simply “two” lists of facts about the character. Character is destiny, some say. The more in depth the actor understands the character, the richer his performance will be. The more one can read the “characters” of ourselves and of those around us, the more we can predict their destinies, as well as our own. The more we understand our national character, the more we can predict our nation’s destiny.

This is how I think. I studied the arts, dramatics, literature, psychology, religion/philosophy. I did not study economics or engineering. I think like an artist. I have never found a necessity to see simply in two dichotomies. I have never accepted that the majority is right. I have always trusted my authentic instincts. I have always questioned given norms. I think that the current penchant Americans now have for balancing one “side” with the other “side” is rather silly and, certainly, not original in thinking. It is rather hackneyed thinking, in fact, in my opinion. The current penchant for perceiving in easily assigned sides, moreover, may fail to get at truth, the essential that I am interested in and which motivates me.

You ask me where I have conceded conservative arguments or positions or points. I have no need to concede to a conservative point just to prove I am “balanced” or “objective” in my thinking. In fact, I think it would be perverse for me to do that if I did not believe that a conservative point of view was correct in my core. On this blog one evening, a couple of bloggers were discussing whether the South of the 1950s was more segregated than other sections of the country. Each blogger was trying to present himself as balanced and so they both conceded that neither the North nor the West was any less segregated or racist than the South. Each gave specific examples to support that point of view. And so they both had a balanced opinion and both left that topic satisfied with the discussion. The only thing that was wrong with their discussion, from my perspective, was that they were both wrong in terms of the truth. They were wrong precisely because they were trying to be so balanced. I remember the days in which entertainers would sometimes not come to the South because they could not stay in a motel with the white entertainers, as they could in the North and elsewhere. That was just one example that showed how the South with its legalized system of segregation was very different, during that era, from other parts of the nation. Both of these bloggers are probably 25 years younger than I am. I believe that I know the truth of that era in the South that they do not understand because they were almost too rationale in their mental processing of equal balance to have gotten to the truth.

When I first came to this blog, my instincts, and my insight into human nature, told me that one particular blogger had malevolent intent. I recommended that he be banned, not because he had maligned me in any way, but because he was doing so to another. I was criticized for even voicing that opinion. I have never suggested that another blogger be banned but I saw something especially dark in this one blogger. My suggestion was ignored, as was probably best at the time, but six months later that blogger was banned. Other bloggers were suggesting that he be banned at that time. One even warned that he appeared “psychotic” toward his target. I never mentioned my original impression. I mention it now simply to show that some insight comes from an understanding of human nature that goes deeper than a list of facts or balancing one “side” with another “side.” This does not make me “living in my own dream world of reality.” This simply says that I see with my own vision of reality based on the words and actions of others in the multilayered dimensions from which I have observed others in my 70 years. It is also based on events, as they have unfolded in the world, and what those events have signified to me. I have described my view of the world moving in a more egalitarian direction, not out of “nothing” or simply from my own musings, but from the events that have unfolded in reality in the past few hundred years. Every fact gathered does not have to be a statistical one. I yearn to know truth deeper and deeper and I am too old, and have limited time left, to care to spend that time researching many politcal blog sites – of either the right or the left – simply to prove how objective and balanced I am in my analysis. Some may get at truths through mathematical statistics. And that is a valuable way to arrive at truth. But there are other ways of arriving at truths. That is why I blog here. I think I have something to offer that is unique.

The other part of your post I will address later, regarding governments and greed.

You may enjoy reading this post on my own blog which explores elements of what I have written here.

http://maryelizabethsings.wordpress.com/2011/06/11/danger-zone-stereotypical-thinking/

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:44 pm

Leave the place better than you found it.

Alas, I never got to enjoy them as a boy. They just were not an option in Stickville, Kansas. Population – 48. (I’m not kidding!)

But I got quite involved as an adult when my son went through Cub Scouts, Webelos and Boy Scouts. And what a hoot!

And you’re right tc; take nothing but memories and leave nothing but footprints…

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
4:44 pm

gs @ 3:52: That sucks hopefully not too expensive.

Why do AC’s always seem to break at the start of summer instead of the end

Worse… I just had it serviced about two weeks ago. Luckily, I have a contract, so they’re getting someone out here tomorrow. Still have the upstairs a/c I can crank up if I want to cool the house….

Paul

May 4th, 2012
4:44 pm

JamVet

“By GOP standards, he is a moderate.”

Then by standards set by conservatives on this blog, he is not a Republican.”

josef

“Having specialized in the humanities myself, you can figure MY opinion of the scientists and THEIR priesthood!

Their “believers” are overall pompous, know it all asses so taken with the little bit they have figured out”

thought you might enjoy a light read -

http://tinyurl.com/7md56nq

Generation$crewed

May 4th, 2012
4:44 pm

Adam
May 4th, 2012
4:08 pm

Nah not that either.
Maybe its the energy all living things create, thus creating heat.
More people, therefore living beings, more heat produced, more heat trapped. Kinda how its cold under the covers when u first get in bed, but then your trapped body heat makes it warm. We got more trees than we did 50 yrs ago, not rain forest but trees and trees consume CO2.

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
4:46 pm

“Shane Mosley against Canelo Alvarez.

Alvarez is a BEAST with both hands.”

Speaking of throw hands……… Mosley better get out early and throw more than a few to get some respect………… He is aging and that young buck will be looking to press the fight

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:47 pm

tc, I was pretty much blown away,as I had always heard terrible things about the VA. Kinda like Grady.

But to many people’s credit (even those damn Republicans! LOL!) they turned that thing completely around.

And now they rock!

Certainly not for every GI, as I still hear horror stories, but all I can relay are my stories….

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
4:47 pm

Anyone else catch this?

In an interview on Fox News, Romney suggested the country should be seeing a growth of 500,000 jobs per month—nearly four times the job growth numbers the country experienced last month.

“We should be seeing numbers in the 500,000 jobs created per month,” Romney told Fox News. “This is way, way, way off from what should happen in a normal recovery. … This is not progress. This is very, very disappointing.”

Anyone want to bet how often there’s been a sustained job-creation of 500K jobs per month in this country?

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
4:49 pm

Here’s the answer:

But as the New York Times’ Peter Baker points out, the country has met that level of job creation in a single month just five times in the last 50 years—including just once each under Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton.

But FOX just let him say it without challenge.

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:49 pm

PAUL

Got it marked for reading in the a.m…..thanks!

DOGGONE

One of my favorites was from the Congregation bulletin about Mama coming to services attended by “three of her many sins” :-)

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:50 pm

“We should be seeing numbers in the 500,000 jobs created per month”

The man is in campaign mode.

That number is not remotely realistic…

Erwin's cat

May 4th, 2012
4:50 pm

Doom,
Statically significant isn’t what it sounds like it is…it doesn’t mean substantial or meaningful, just that the results are not likely the result of chance…the amount of data needed to determine if a result was or was not the result of chance is the significance level aka critical p-value and it is the probability of observing data at least as “radical” as what was already or previously observed..again, an indicator of chance results…the null hypothesis is a default position that there may be no relationship between two measured or observable occurrences..and can never be proven..data can only reject a null hypothesis or fail to reject it

I'm a "con" and a vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!! (That Black Guy)

May 4th, 2012
4:50 pm

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:37 pm
FORMAL BLACK GUY

Adam’s still a bit wet behind the ears… he’s gonna be alright,,,
___________________________________________________________________________

josef, how are ya?

You’re right about Adam, I just like to needle him.

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
4:51 pm

The man is in campaign mode.

why stop at 500K? Why not a MILLION? Or a BILLION??

He’s such a fake.

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
4:51 pm

“One of my favorites was from the Congregation bulletin about Mama coming to services attended by “three of her many sins”

Yep, church errors are the BEST! I’m out for a while.

BADA BING

May 4th, 2012
4:54 pm

They got the Unibomber on a billboard? Did they use Bill Clinton, the ‘Unibanger’?

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:56 pm

“They just were not an option in Stickville, Kansas. Population – 48. (I’m not kidding!)”

Wow JV, that is small. I grew up in rural New England so I can relate. But my home town population was in the thousands. Would it be improper to ask if you had running water? ;-)

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:56 pm

FORMAL BLACK GUY

Yeah, L’il Adam is so obliging to it, ain’t he? But, I will say this, even if he does take himself a little too seriously sometimes, he ain’t no dummy and, like our other younguns here ’bouts, gives me a lot of hope for the future…

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:59 pm

Man! The help around here has really sucked lately.

I’m starting without our supposed leader.

Harrumph…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSYbZTsY-00

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:59 pm

BADA

Unibanger? He’s the Multibanger… :-)

FORMAL BLACK GUY
As for the inquiry to how’m I…all things considered, not bad…thanks for asking. Sorry to hear you’ve had some knocks…but, hell, if you ain’t pushin up daisies, REJOICE! :-)

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
5:01 pm

“like our other younguns here ’bouts, gives me a lot of hope for the future…”

I would say Adam and ir(Rational) both are going to do just fine

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
5:02 pm

Jam

I’m with you………. In honor of our so called Mexican holiday

Sing it Freddy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qu8RPvhP-U

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
5:02 pm

tc, we did, but we also had an outhouse!

I went to a two room school until the seventh grade!

But you know what buddy? I loved it. (There goes any claim to being smart, huh? LOL at me!)

Hiding from each other in wheat fields, walking down the railroad tracks, looking for rattle snakes and horny toads, bailing hay and screaming down two lane highways in a kickass GTO listening to Grand Funk!

josef

May 4th, 2012
5:02 pm

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
5:02 pm

Logical Dude

May 4th, 2012
5:03 pm

ByteMe: Anyone want to bet how often there’s been a sustained job-creation of 500K jobs per month in this country?

Well, in january – march 2008 we had job losses of that magnitude, so really, it shouldn’t be that hard to reverse those numbers, right?

Right?

Hello?
:)

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
5:05 pm

Well, in january – march 2008 we had job losses of that magnitude, so really, it shouldn’t be that hard to reverse those numbers, right?

Ha!

SHEETS!!

Orange 12

May 4th, 2012
5:06 pm

Hey Jay,
They probably have an irrefutable argument that Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny and The tooth fairy aren’t real either. All you Libs need to donate some money to Jay so he can keep painting that pig (Obama’s Reelection Chances) with lipstick. After all, it must be getting expensive as that is mainly the bottom line of what he blogs about every day, and you Libs don’t want Jay head over heels in debt for lipstick expeditures. Do you? Especially after Mitt Romney wins the Presidency by a landslide.

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
5:07 pm

show has started upstairs

see ya there

I'm a "con" and a vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!! (That Black Guy)

May 4th, 2012
5:08 pm

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:59 pm
BADA

Unibanger? He’s the Multibanger…

FORMAL BLACK GUY
As for the inquiry to how’m I…all things considered, not bad…thanks for asking. Sorry to hear you’ve had some knocks…but, hell, if you ain’t pushin up daisies, REJOICE!
_____________________________________________________________________

Just had a summer cold (spring cold?). Thing is I rarely get sick so I become a BIG baby when I do.

But you are right.

Any day on this side of the dirt is a good day.

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
5:09 pm

“Just had a summer cold (spring cold?). Thing is I rarely get sick so I become a BIG baby when I do.”

I must admit……………. that is me for sure

I’m a pu$$ when I get sick…… rarely do, but one would thing I’m about to check out

josef

May 4th, 2012
5:10 pm

ZamVet

Just mauo, but one of the worst things to ever befall the educational system in this country was when we moved away from those two-room schools…

I'm a "con" and a vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!! (That Black Guy)

May 4th, 2012
5:12 pm

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
5:02 pm
tc, we did, but we also had an outhouse!

I went to a two room school until the seventh grade!
_________________________________________________________________________
If I said we had to use a porcelain pot in the winter because it was too cold to go to the outhouse, would that make me country, old, or both?

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
5:13 pm

“I yearn to know truth deeper and deeper and I am too old, and have limited time left, to care to spend that time researching many politcal blog sites – of either the right or the left – simply to prove how objective and balanced I am in my analysis. Some may get at truths through mathematical statistics. And that is a valuable way to arrive at truth. But there are other ways of arriving at truths. That is why I blog here. I think I have something to offer that is unique.”

Mary, thanks for the lengthy response and for sharing your worldview. To answer your question somewhat, I am a full generation behind you in age. I, like you, do not spend an inordinate amount of time acquainting myself with all of the political arguments being made daily on both the left and right. And, like you, I am a seeker of truth. But I am guided in that search mostly by reason, evidence and principles. I believe in an objective reality and agree that most of us have a blurred vision of it more often that not. I like to say we are, all of us, idiot savants on this earth. Jesus likened us to sheep, which are very lovable animals but (embarrassingly) rather dumb as well. I desire to be humble but often am not. I am working on that. I would say I see things much more black and white than you do, but I know that the color spectrum has many, many hues that are divided up differently by different cultures. I think some things are right or wrong but many other things are neither – they have no moral component.

I look forward to reading more of your thoughts.

Old Goober

May 4th, 2012
5:16 pm

My all-time favorite blooper was one that appeared in the Rome (GA) News-Tribune about 30 years ago:

MAN SHOT AND KILLED THREE TIMES

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
5:20 pm

“Hiding from each other in wheat fields, walking down the railroad tracks, looking for rattle snakes and horny toads, bailing hay and screaming down two lane highways in a kickass GTO listening to Grand Funk!”

It is easy to sometimes think those were the best times of our lives, huh JV? I remember Grand Funk – I really like their version of Gimme Shelter. And my father owned a 6 cylinder DOHC Lemans Sprint with a Holley 4 barrel carburetor on it sporting 230 HP and weighing only 3,000 lbs (it was called the little “goat”). I was too young to ever drive it, but would always enjoy getting my neck snapped back when the 4 barrel kicked it.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
5:22 pm

“If I said we had to use a porcelain pot in the winter because it was too cold to go to the outhouse, would that make me country, old, or both?”

I think it would make you candid ;-)

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
5:25 pm

“My all-time favorite blooper was one that appeared in the Rome (GA) News-Tribune about 30 years ago: MAN SHOT AND KILLED THREE TIMES”

I heard they had a problem with zombies back then. Thanks for that.

Fred Flintstone

May 4th, 2012
5:25 pm

Frog 4:20

I asked the NPS that exact question

There is a plan

People get evacuated

Animals die

Then lots of praying that a nuclear winter doesn’t happen

Old Goober

May 4th, 2012
5:28 pm

Just mauo, but one of the worst things to ever befall the educational system in this country was when we moved away from those two-room schools…

Agree. My first six grades were in a converted WWII army barracks—1st & 2nd in one room with pot-belly stove, 3rd & 4th in a 2nd room with pot-belly stove, 5th & 6th in a 3rd room with pot-belly stove. Beyond that, the combined jr. high and high school had no class larger than 25. Every teacher knew your name, and every adult living in the area knew your name. There was a lot of learning going on there. My small graduating class of 17 eventually produced 3 PhDs, 1 MA, and 6 BA/BS degrees in addition.

I genuinely believe we’ve made a huge mistake by WalMarting our schools for the sake of a pathetically small tax savings.

Dr. Pangloss

May 4th, 2012
5:34 pm

Hitler wore socks. If you wear socks, you’re guilty of genocide.

Mary Elizabeth

May 4th, 2012
5:34 pm

Towncrier, 5:13

Thank you for your substantive and revealing response, Towncrier. I feel as if I know you with more depth now, too, and I look forward to future exchanges with you. Have a nice weekend.

Al Bore

May 4th, 2012
6:17 pm

Get ahead of the curve.
The new denier is any of us who doesn’t know that the vast majority of us are all former believers, AND liberal.
Pollution is real; death by CO2 was not so be happy a crisis was averted because it was exaggerated. Exaggeration is not a crime. Science gave us the pesticides that poisoned the planet in the first place. Climate change was a consultant’s wet dream come true. We don’t have to condemn our children anymore to a CO2 death.

Planet Lover

May 4th, 2012
6:18 pm

“Vote for us or your kids die in a CO2 he!!” Just who was the neocon here? We taught people to fear the planet, not love the planet.
Climate change was not about kids planting trees or energy or forests or…..it was a 26 year old “CO2 death threat” to the voter’s children and their children and we still expect voters to vote for us now? Climate change was a curse to the voter.
“global warming is the greatest threat to the planet” -Earth Hour / IPCC
Sure, keep condemning the voter’s children to the greenhouse gas ovens if you really want neocons to stay in power forever.

Planet Lover

May 4th, 2012
6:20 pm

Sure, keep condemning the voter’s children to the greenhouse gas ovens if you really want neocons to stay in power forever.

[...] Original Post By Google News Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]

Curtis Rivers

May 4th, 2012
8:26 pm

Interesting. In the same way all forms of willful ignorance are interesting. Denial of scientific evidence which is supported by over 95 % of all climate scientists across the world and nearly all major governments is willful ignorance, and some people just like to revel in the fact that they have chosen to be ignorant.

Maximum

May 4th, 2012
9:22 pm

The fool who self-identifies as “Ty Webb” (an insult to Caddyshack that implies he inherited his money and doesn’t work for a living) is gay for ignorance.

TGT

May 4th, 2012
10:51 pm

YES!! Let’s make global warming (along with same-sex marriage) an election issue! Only problem is, it continues to poll as the least pressing issue among the electorate (at least anytime there is an election looming).

For over three decades the left has beat this ridiculous drum, and more and more Americans (as well as those in the scientific community) are tuning them out. But by all means, keep it up!

TGT

May 4th, 2012
11:45 pm

Unlike liberals and the issue of man-made global warming, conservatives have made significant political progress (at the federal and state level) with abortion. Of course, it helps when one has legitimate (observable, repeatable) science and sound moral ground upon which to make ones case.

Maximum

May 5th, 2012
12:24 am

TGT thinks the so-called Right’s anti-science agenda is healthy for America’s future. Maybe you and the Pope can get together to discuss whether Galileo should be punished for his scientific observations about planetary orbits.

The Gov has no Money!

May 5th, 2012
7:50 am

So, what is the best temperature for the Earth? If anyone knows, then please gives us the number so we can get to it. Then this issue will go away.

Maximum

May 5th, 2012
8:24 am

If ignorance is bliss, Republicans must be deliriously happy.

Rockwell

May 5th, 2012
8:27 am

It is comments like this from libturds that make me laugh EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

Almost all the world’s leading climatologists agree that we humans are mainly responsible for global warming. – carlosgvv

You turds are absolute nut jobs. Please provide proof. I can’t wait to see that. Libs don’t contribute much to society, but we need to keep them around just for the comedy they provide.

TGT

May 5th, 2012
8:40 am

The Right’s “anti-science agenda?!” HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Nothing in the scientific arena is as well documented as life in the womb. We can measure and observe virtually every event from conception until birth, yet, in their lust to keep abortion legal, liberals continue to ignore the plain reality (and morality) in this matter.

Real science does no favors for the homosexual movement either. Despite no real evidence, for nearly 20 years now we’ve been told that homosexuality is a genetic and unchangeable behavior—that people are born gay. What real science does reveal is that homosexuality is a rather unhealthy and quite dangerous lifestyle:

According to the CDC, gay and bisexual men account for more than 60 percent of all syphilis cases, and more than 82 percent of all known sexually-transmitted AIDS cases in 2006 were the result of male-to-male sexual contact. During its 2010 National STD Prevention Conference, the CDC revealed that the rate of new HIV diagnoses among men who have sex with men (MSM) is more than 44 times that of other men and more than 40 times that of women. Also, the rate of primary and secondary syphilis among MSM is more than 46 times that of other men and more than 71 times that of women.

According to Kevin Fenton, M.D., director of the CDC’s National Center for HIV/AIDS, Viral Hepatitis, STD, and TB Prevention, “While the heavy toll of HIV and syphilis among gay and bisexual men has been long recognized, this analysis shows just how stark the health disparities are between this and other populations.” In late 2010, a CDC study revealed that 1 in 5 gay men in U.S. cities has HIV.

Also occurring at a much higher rate among MSM are gonorrhea, various forms of hepatitis, and anal and genital warts. In 2007 the Los Angeles Times reported the frequency of methamphetamine use is 20 times greater among MSM than in the general population. What’s more, homosexuals have a twenty-five to thirty-year decrease in life expectancy and a much higher than usual incidence of suicide.

Yet the Right is “anti-science?!” Laughable.

TaxPayer

May 5th, 2012
9:29 am

Yes, the Right is “anti-science.” And yes, we laugh at them.

Angel Martin

May 5th, 2012
11:01 am

Angel Martin

May 5th, 2012
11:08 am

Curtis my man -

The figure usually cited is “97% climate scientist consensus on AGW”, not 95%. But the statistic is b.s. No legitimate poll of climate scientists has ever been conducted, so we don’t actually know what percent of them buy into the AGW hypothesis.
http://climatequotes.com/2011/02/10/study-claiming-97-of-climate-scientists-agree-is-flawed/

Rockwell

May 5th, 2012
11:44 am

Curtis,

Denial of scientific evidence which is supported by over 95 % of all climate scientists across the world

And I am sure you have proof of that statement, correct. ‘Cause….if not, then that would just be pulling a number out of your arse.

datsneefa

May 5th, 2012
12:44 pm

Hey its their money
Is it? The heartland Institute is funded by 19 public companies, and also a bunch of Republican donators.

thing is when I go pay for a Pepsi, my Pfizer medication, my AT&T bill, my Time Warner Cable bill, those companies take a portion of my payment and use it to call me a terrorist?
the CEO’s of all these companies should be publicly flogged for supporting Heartland

TGT

May 5th, 2012
2:05 pm

Because you say so, right TaxPayer? (Were you laughing after the 2010 flogging the Democrats received?)

TGT

May 5th, 2012
5:05 pm

I see where Kyle has straightened out Bookman’s April 25th column (http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/04/25/british-deploy-gops-economic-plan-return-to-recession/) on Britain (and the rest of Europe) when it comes to cuts vs. spending. Nice job Wingfield!

Joseph

May 5th, 2012
6:59 pm

Its hillarious that Bookman continues to spew about issues people don’t care about while ignoring the fact that we have a failed President….

Adam

May 7th, 2012
10:07 am

Rockwell: So you’re asking for proof of consensus? Or are you asking for proof that humans are the major cause? Because both are easy to prove, if you believe in evidence based criteria rather than “I have already made up my mind” criteria.