An irrefutable argument from climate-change deniers

UPDATE: Under harsh criticism, the Heartland Institute has now decided to end its billboard program.

The Heartland Institute describes itself as “a leading source of science and economics questioning claims that man-made global warming is a crisis.” And it’s true, as far as such things go: In the universe of climate-change deniers, Heartland is as close to mainstream as the movement gets.

This is how Heartland has chosen to participate in the debate regarding “science and economics.”

Billboard2-620x229

According to Heartland, this is planned as part of a series of such billboards. Additional stars will be Charles Manson and perhaps Osama bin Laden. And if you want to know why Heartland has chosen to feature such people on its billboards, it has thoughtfully provided an answer:

“Because what these murderers and madmen have said differs very little from what spokespersons for the United Nations, journalists for the “mainstream” media, and liberal politicians say about global warming….”

Most scientists and 60 percent of the general public (in the U.S.) do not believe man-made global warming is a problem. The people who still believe in man-made global warming are mostly on the radical fringe of society. This is why the most prominent advocates of global warming aren’t scientists. They are murderers, tyrants, and madmen.”

If I may paraphrase Heartland’s argument, sane people shouldn’t want anything to do with people who have gone off the deep end, are truly nutty, have lost all sense of proportion and decency and say and do preposterous things.

I think they have a point.

– Jay Bookman

334 comments Add your comment

Adam

May 4th, 2012
4:01 pm

However, trading ‘carbon credits’ and placing taxes based on something we don’t fully understand is insane.

Agreed. But also not what we were talking about.

Yes, cap and trade is dumb. NOT admitting that carbon emissions of various sources are contributing to warming in a statistically significant way, such that our human activities are the MAJOR cause of the climate change all over the world, is also dumb.

I'm a "con" and a vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!! (That Black Guy)

May 4th, 2012
4:01 pm

TBS, wuzzup?

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:01 pm

“So that means nothing to me.”

Obviously.

Welcome to Turkey.

Logical Dude

May 4th, 2012
4:01 pm

Only 11% believe in Anthropogenic Climate Change

Did they use those big words in the survey?
I’d say 50% didn’t understand the question if they did.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

May 4th, 2012
4:01 pm

Peadawg

it appears you did not do your research…again.

Obama already did the cutting,to save the payroll tax cut.

Gosh almighty.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:02 pm

“Yep. Climatology as a scientific discipline is still in its infancy…something the climatologists will be the first to tell you. The problem is that neither “side” making memo-riddled partisanship political hay is listening…”

Well said, Josef.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:03 pm

“Obviously. Welcome to Turkey.”

That’s your defense of Darwin’s theory? In that case, I would say it fails ;-)

Erwin's cat

May 4th, 2012
4:03 pm

carlosgw – “Almost all the world’s leading climatologists agree that we humans are mainly responsible for global warming. Obviously, Heartland is just a mouthpiece for Big Business, those who value profit above all else and will use any type of lie to keep the money coming in.”
like there’s no money and profit to be made in promoting the man made GGC theory?…yes I said theory

Adam

May 4th, 2012
4:03 pm

TBG: As long as you continue to tell only those you disagree with what they can and can not say (post), I will continue to point out your “THE RULZ”.

Great! I could always use a laugh. I look forward to continuing to predict that you will do this over and over again, giving me more and more attention, credit, and power than I rightly deserve. I will accept the attention, credit, and power that you so willingly give away. :)

Also, using your logic, will you admonish others when the use the phrase “Obama Derangement Syndrome” since the first us was “Bush Derangement Syndrome”?

What exactly gives you the idea that my logic is even remotely like what you seem to think it is?

Generation$crewed

May 4th, 2012
4:04 pm

ByteMe – Political thug
May 4th, 2012
3:29 pm

Nah, that’s not what I meant.

More along the lines of earthy, mother nature type. As in, possibly it is a cleaning of itself. Was meant more as a joke. But have u noticed a connection between climate change and a growth in population exceeding any growth rates world wide in history?

Just an observation, I do not know exactly why it is getting warmer, maybe just a cycle may not. The earth and universe are kinda tricky, lots of unknowns.

Just think its wise to be open to all possibilities, but it appears from your post you seem to have it figured out. Good for you

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
4:04 pm

TBG

What is going on my man? Hope you have had a good week.

It is Friday and that is a great thing……………

If you are still riding this weekend……… hope you have an awesome time

Peadawg

May 4th, 2012
4:04 pm

“Obama already did the cutting,to save the payroll tax cut.

Gosh almighty.”

I don’t remember Obama’s budget ever getting passed…got link?

Fred Flintstone

May 4th, 2012
4:05 pm

Dinosaurs caused the planet to warm

Fat buggers

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:05 pm

“Science is not the art of collecting opinion polls.”

No, I guess for you it is more of a priesthood. I wish I could say I admire your faith.

Finn McCool (The System Isn't Broken; It's Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

May 4th, 2012
4:06 pm

Kooky conservatives

Thulsa Doom

May 4th, 2012
4:06 pm

“However, trading ‘carbon credits’ and placing taxes based on something we don’t fully understand is insane.”

Yep. Just ask German taxpayers who helped pay for carbon credits to the UN to help fund a Chinese dam that was going to be built anyway. The whole nonsense is nothing more than getting prosperous western nations to feel guilty and share their wealth in the form of carbon credits to less developed nations. JMDO

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:07 pm

Take your puerile issues with Darwin – one of the most respected figures in the history of science, especially in the field of biology – up with the world’s experts.

Oh, that’s right. That is an appeal to authority!

Jeebus, Jobus and Maria.

What is the point?

One could get more rational discourse from precocious fifth graders…

Adam

May 4th, 2012
4:08 pm

GS: So if human population has a possible connection, and human emit CO2 when they breathe out, would this not indicate that man is contributing to the greenhouse gases?

How about the cows? Since we breed so many more of them than exist in nature, and they fart greenhouse gases, would this not indicate a human caused addition to greenhouse gases?

And if cars also emit CO2, and there’s a large number of those, and plants and other industrial machines emit CO2 and other greenhouse gases, and those are on the rise, then would that not indicate human activity as contributing to greenhouse gases?

Finally, if ALL of the above are happening AT THE SAME TIME, would you not begin to see that as a significant change in the global environment?

GT

May 4th, 2012
4:08 pm

Kaczynsky loves the billboard and wants to send Heartland a thank you note that they will be receiving in the mail very soon.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 4th, 2012
4:09 pm

josef:

That’s three ………………… :o

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:10 pm

OK, this has gone WAY past absurd into the land of Republican SciFy.

Time to rock, maestro Jay!

Thulsa Doom

May 4th, 2012
4:10 pm

Finn McCool (The System Isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed ~ from an Occupy sign)

May 4th, 2012
4:06 pm
Kooky conservatives

Finn Uncool,

I’ve been calling you guys the kook left for quite awhile now. I guessing due to your continuing lack of original thinking you can’t think of anything to call the righties so you just copy the word kook from my various postings. Your welcome. You can use the term kook. But only cause I feel sorry for you that you can’t think of anything on your own.

barking frog

May 4th, 2012
4:11 pm

If you can’t stand the heat
go to moonbase Newt,
it’s cold there.

Adam

May 4th, 2012
4:11 pm

Towncrier: No, I guess for you it is more of a priesthood.

Do please show me where I have simply taken science on faith. Is it that I “believe” that the data they are showing me is accurate and says what they say it says? Yes… so much FAITH is involved in all that. I guess the only way to know for sure is if I duplicate the experiment myself… Hey! not a bad idea. Hmmm, looks like I don’t have EXACTLY the same planet in a test environment with EXACTLY the same variables, so I guess what I should do is then just assume they are wrong. And if I assume they are wrong, that is surely not faith in my assumption. Oh no….

Adam

May 4th, 2012
4:12 pm

Thulsa: I’ve been calling you guys the kook left for quite awhile now. I guessing due to your continuing lack of original thinking you can’t think of anything to call the righties so you just copy the word kook from my various postings

Hey, let me give you a hint: This crap you’re trying to do to inflate your own ego isn’t working. But it IS making me laugh. So carry on :lol:

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:13 pm

“Take your puerile issues with Darwin – one of the most respected figures in the history of science, especially in the field of biology – up with the world’s experts. Oh, that’s right. That is an appeal to authority!”

Dude, I am simply asking you to show that you believe Darwin’s theory NOT because you were told it was true AND not because you are an atheist BUT because you have independently assessed the evidence and rationale for it and have concluded the claim is true. If you have done so, you should be able to say so in your own words. This is not a personal attack.

Joseph

May 4th, 2012
4:14 pm

Just one person stands in the way of creating thousands of new jobs from the Keystone pipeline…

That Black Guy who is a "con" and a Vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!!!!

May 4th, 2012
4:15 pm

I am all ears.

That’s what Obama said.

barking frog

May 4th, 2012
4:16 pm

What is the current plan
proposed by huge majority
of scientists that endorse
manmade global warming
to combat it?

David Granger

May 4th, 2012
4:17 pm

Maybe we should make one of those “Julia” ads to counter these billboards…

Thulsa Doom

May 4th, 2012
4:17 pm

“This crap you’re trying to do to inflate your own ego isn’t working.”- Psychologist Adam at work.

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:17 pm

Crier, that is just nonsense.

I have no real depth of knowledge about how Warfarin controls my Thrombolin 3 imbalance and prevents me from getting more blood clots. Though I have read massive amounts of information about them and deep venal thrombosis. Along with a host of other related topics.

But do I discount, out of hand, the medical doctors and their VAST knowledge because I don’t?

Of course not, unless I want to die.

I defer to experts.

Not shaman and kooks (hat tip Doomy)

Speaking of which, Doomy, you are one of the few cats I know who can go toe to toe with me in an Insult Off!

Stay belligerent, my friend!

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:17 pm

CRIER

Having specialized in the humanities myself, you can figure MY opinion of the scientists and THEIR priesthood!

Their “believers” are overall pompous, know it all asses so taken with the little bit they have figured out (most of it of the duh school, imauo) about this infinite universe we call home…shoot, we;re just a few thousand years out of the caves…

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
4:17 pm

“Yes, cap and trade is dumb.”

I wouldn’t be so sure of that. It’s been HIGHLY successful in the fight against acid rain

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
4:18 pm

Jay

Where is the upstairs Friday addition?

FNM, FNM

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

May 4th, 2012
4:18 pm

Peadawg

You think it was in the budget?

You weren’t paying attention during the payroll tax extension fight?

Good Lord, it just happened in February!

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:19 pm

“I am all ears.

That’s what Obama said.”

LOL!

Seems like I would have heard that one before (As it appeals to my fifth grade humor!) But I guess I haven’t!

Kudos, black hombre…

Erwin's cat

May 4th, 2012
4:19 pm

Adam,
care to explain “statistical significance” significance level, p-values and null hypothesis?

That Black Guy who is a "con" and a Vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!!!!

May 4th, 2012
4:19 pm

They BOTH suck May 4th, 2012 4:04 pm

Link Report this comment

TBG

What is going on my man? Hope you have had a good week.

It is Friday and that is a great thing……………

If you are still riding this weekend……… hope you have an awesome time
——————————-
TBS, nah I’ve been sick all week so I’m going to take it easy.
Gonna order the Mayweather Cotto fight and chill.

barking frog

May 4th, 2012
4:20 pm

volcanoes erupt everyday.
Yellowstone if it erupts
will destroy most if not
all of the US. what plans
are made to deal with
that?

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:21 pm

ZamVet

Warfarin is rat poison…and it ain’t kilt you yet… :-)

SCOUT
Nyanh…just one…they’re all the same thing at the level we discuss them here… :-)

Adam

May 4th, 2012
4:21 pm

Out for the day. See you all later!

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
4:22 pm

“Just one person stands in the way of creating thousands of new jobs from the Keystone pipeline…”

Yep, the Republican Governor of Nebraska.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:23 pm

“Do please show me where I have simply taken science on faith. Is it that I “believe” that the data they are showing me is accurate and says what they say it says?”

I think your faith rests not so much in supplied data (which may be accurate, skewed or sometimes even falsified) but in methodology. Theirs is a statistical analysis based on certain assumptions. If those assumption are comprehensive and correct, and the reasoning from them is also correct, then we may feel relatively certain about the conclusions reached. You seem to think that, without explaining past dramatic climatic changes without increased man-made C02 emissions and without ruling out other obvious and known causal events (such as solar activity), the methodology they have used is correct. I disagree on purely logical grounds. My beef with you is you somehow suggesting what I have said here is ignorant or idiotic. I am not the only one who has such qualms. There are a number of very smart men who would say essentially the same thing. And that is why I liken your science to a priesthood.

Peadawg

May 4th, 2012
4:24 pm

Again, Granny…I never read any of this the past 2 weeks in the articles on CNN, Yahoo, AJC, etc. about the veto threat. They all said the GOP was wanting to cut something Obama proposed in his budget…no mention of the payroll tax.

If you have a link, please post it.

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
4:25 pm

TBG

hope you get to feeling better

Not sure if I will have a chance to catch the fight……..

Cotto has a “punchers chance” because he is known to throw those hands and not be apprehensive……. however that will probably be his downfall. Mayweather will be able to counter and take control after a few rounds…..imo

Hopefully it is a good fight or at least decent

my prediction: Mayweather in 9 or less

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:25 pm

“Warfarin is rat poison”

Ya think i don’t know that you uppity Hebe!

More and more I just act like a rat!

LOL at me!

i don’t know about you boys, but I’m gonna start drinkin’…

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
4:25 pm

“Warfarin is rat poison”

Not exactly. Warfarin is a vitamin K inhibitor that is USED as rat poison.

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:26 pm

BOTH

Whatcha wanna bet he’s surfin sumpin for Cinco de Mayo…the great Gringo holiday! :-)

And SCOUT…
Wunner how he’s gonna two-step the Late Misunderstanding and THAT one… :-)

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
4:27 pm

josef

Maybe Freddy Fender

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:27 pm

David Eugene “Dave” Heineman (born May 12, 1948) is the 39th and current Governor of Nebraska. He is a member of the Republican Party, and the current Chairman of the National Governors Association.

Heineman lived in a variety of places in eastern Nebraska during his youth, eventually attending high school in Wahoo, Nebraska. He graduated from the United States Military Academy in 1970. He served five years in the U.S. Army, leaving with the rank of captain. He also graduated the Army Ranger training program.

By GOP standards, he is a moderate.

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:28 pm

Doggone

Picky, picky, picky! :-)

Thulsa Doom

May 4th, 2012
4:28 pm

Erwin’s cat

May 4th, 2012
4:19 pm
Adam,
care to explain “statistical significance” significance level, p-values and null hypothesis?

Erwin”s cat,

I think you ran him off with that one. I know what you are getting and talking about but not being a great math and science guy I can’t explain it nearly as well. It would be better if you enlightened myself and others who would like to hear more as it regards the science concerning the gw debate.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:29 pm

“But do I discount, out of hand, the medical doctors and their VAST knowledge because I don’t?”

Well, buddy, I hope you never have an experience that causes you to do so (like some in my family have had) – not because I secretly hope you give up on medical science but because, despite my aggravation with you a lot of times, I truly wish you no harm. Seeing what some have experienced from medical science, I now liken it to a small clearing in a vast forest. I mean, they know but a fraction of what is to be known and they are continually reversing themselves.

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
4:29 pm

“Picky, picky, picky!”

Yeah, well…you know how it is!

That Black Guy who is a "con" and a Vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!!!!

May 4th, 2012
4:30 pm

Adam, you’re a smart dude and usually I enjoy (even “gasp” learn) from some of your posts.

I only chime in when you jump on your high horse and tell others what they can and cannot say.

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:31 pm

BOTH

That’d be a good one… or maybe for us old f*rts Ritchie Valens…

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:32 pm

“Their “believers” are overall pompous, know it all asses so taken with the little bit they have figured out (most of it of the duh school, imauo) about this infinite universe we call home…shoot, we;re just a few thousand years out of the caves…”

You have a witty way of putting thing, Josef. Thanks for the laugh ;-)

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:33 pm

Doggone

“Yeah, well…you know how it is!”

Don’t I just! My stock in trade… !

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
4:36 pm

“Don’t I just! My stock in trade… !”

Speaking of your stock in trade…my sister and I have a game we call “They should have hired me as a proof-reader” for things we see in print or hear on TV or the radio.

The latest on our list? I heard a car company ad that said “No first payment”

Does that mean they are giving them away for free?

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:37 pm

FORMAL BLACK GUY

Adam’s still a bit wet behind the ears… he’s gonna be alright,,,

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:37 pm

“despite my aggravation with you a lot of times, I truly wish you no harm.”

And right back at ya, tc.

(I’m all bark and no bite!)

I’m just glad that six and half years on, I’m still in the game! Cuz this dog came within a few hours of checking out…

And to the wonderful doctors, nurses, staff and volunteers at the VA Medical Hospital, I can never repay my enduring gratitude!

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:40 pm

“I agree wrecking the economy is stupid. But at least recognition that man is causing harm to the planet is a step that many still need to take before ANY action is taken.”

I am not arguing that we (mankind) are having no effect. That would seem almost impossible. But it may be very insignificant (say less than 1%). I simply don’t know with any degree of certainty. But, on the chance our contribution may be more significant, I am ready to support cost effective measures to reduce our “carbon footprint” – even if only, in the end, it turns out to just leave us with cleaner air. My main thought, however, regarding this problem is to come up with an entirely new and different energy resource (maybe like taking hydrogen from water) like we should have decades ago.

I’m with the camp that is similar to the boy scouts. Leave the place better than you found it.

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:40 pm

DOGGONE

When I worked in the newspaper, we had a wall of “the one’s that DIDN’T get away…” Unmentionable and my Mama were like you and your sister…constantly sending their classics back and forth…

No first payment, eh…he should’ve gone there for Geronimo’s Cadillac! :-)

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:41 pm

OK, cornball time.

My sister-in-law sent me an email with an obvious Star Wars motif – May the 4th be with You!

carlosgvv

May 4th, 2012
4:42 pm

Jay, Big Business, who uses Heartland the same way they use the NRA, know exactly what they are doing. By promoting this kind of advertising, they make it clear they will use any and all tactics, no matter how base and disgusting, to keep the profits coming in. Their Republican lackeys are confident that the conservative electorate are so gullible they will believe anything they are told, including anything from Heartland.

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
4:43 pm

“No first payment, eh…he should’ve gone there for Geronimo’s Cadillac!”

May favorite one that ALMOST got away I heard hears ago. Had to do with using your seatbelts. The way I heard it and ad campaign got to the desk of the top guy at the ad agency before he killed it.

The slogan? “If you love your kids, belt ‘em”

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
4:43 pm

TC

I do tend to lean more toward to GW side, however the science is still new and time will tell……

With that said, your post @ 4:40 was well stated and I must say that I do agree

I'm a "con" and a vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!! (That Black Guy)

May 4th, 2012
4:43 pm

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
4:25 pm
TBG

hope you get to feeling better

Not sure if I will have a chance to catch the fight……..

Cotto has a “punchers chance” because he is known to throw those hands and not be apprehensive……. however that will probably be his downfall. Mayweather will be able to counter and take control after a few rounds…..imo

Hopefully it is a good fight or at least decent

my prediction: Mayweather in 9 or less
________________________________________________
I agree with you on Cotto, and I agree Mayweather will win, but I think it will be a decision. If Margareto (sp) couldn’t knock Cotto out and he had plaster of paris in his gloves, I don’t think Floyd will be able to.

The undercard will be a great fight as well.

Shane Mosley against Canelo Alvarez.

Alvarez is a BEAST with both hands.

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:43 pm

“And to the wonderful doctors, nurses, staff and volunteers at the VA Medical Hospital, I can never repay my enduring gratitude!”

One thing I have learned from you JV is to appreciate how good the VA medicine really is (I think you made that point in support of Obamacare). I believe you are right. Anyone who has read my posts will know that I have a low opinion of government in general (and, as a disclaimer, let me also say I do not LOVE corporations!), but you have encouraged me to know that at least some of the times government does alright.

Mary Elizabeth

May 4th, 2012
4:44 pm

Towncrier,

To respond to the content of your post, to me, I will address the last paragraph first.

You mention that you and I have different world views, which I have acknowledged. However, you go on to speak in terms of “sides,” and the need, as you see it, “to be willing to get input from more than one side.” You speak of the “liberal sources” that you “draw from and you state that you are “not at all certain that ( I ) draw from sources that offer differing views.” You asked, “Where have you conceded conservative arguments or positions or points?”

I do not perceive in terms of “two sides” of reality, political or otherwise. And although I am a liberal and although I am an advocate for most liberal positions, I do not see my reality in terms of simply liberal thinking. Likewise, regarding yourself, that is why I told you that I did not know you in any specific depth. We are all multilayered in our thinking and to limit our thinking to simply one “side” or the other is to limit our humanity. In a sense, there may be four or five “sides” or even 500 or 500,000 “sides,” depending upon how large we see the “pie” and how small we see the pieces of the pie, by analogy. The pie represents the total of human consciousness, and the slices, or pieces of the pie, represent indivdual human consciousness. The total of human consciousness is sometimes referred to as the human collective consciousness. We overlap some others in our thinking, and in our being, more than with others, but we all have some areas of commonality and that is what makes us human. And that is, also, what defines us as sane.

I will turn 70 this year and over the decades I think that I know how my particular mind works pretty well. (BTW, I would very much like to know your age if you are not adverse to sharing it publicly. Knowing that factor helps in understanding part of the perspectives from which others come.) I see reality through the eyes of an artist and I always have. I believe it is genetic. Therefore, what is of primary importance to me is getting at truth, in depth, and not surface realities or dichotomies of thinking. I studied drama in my youth because of that natural leaning. When an actor portrays a character, he does not list all the ways that character is positive and all the ways that character is negative and then tallies the two “sides” to see if the character is a hero or a villain. He works to understand the character in truth and in depth including the character’s history, his parents’ histories, his place of birth and his life’s experiences, his physical appearance, his intelligence, his emotional capacity, his sensitivity, his social ability or lack thereof, his hidden agendas. I could go on and on. This is multidimensional thinking and understanding. When one puts that all together, one comes up with a richer understanding than simply “two” lists of facts about the character. Character is destiny, some say. The more in depth the actor understands the character, the richer his performance will be. The more one can read the “characters” of ourselves and of those around us, the more we can predict their destinies, as well as our own. The more we understand our national character, the more we can predict our nation’s destiny.

This is how I think. I studied the arts, dramatics, literature, psychology, religion/philosophy. I did not study economics or engineering. I think like an artist. I have never found a necessity to see simply in two dichotomies. I have never accepted that the majority is right. I have always trusted my authentic instincts. I have always questioned given norms. I think that the current penchant Americans now have for balancing one “side” with the other “side” is rather silly and, certainly, not original in thinking. It is rather hackneyed thinking, in fact, in my opinion. The current penchant for perceiving in easily assigned sides, moreover, may fail to get at truth, the essential that I am interested in and which motivates me.

You ask me where I have conceded conservative arguments or positions or points. I have no need to concede to a conservative point just to prove I am “balanced” or “objective” in my thinking. In fact, I think it would be perverse for me to do that if I did not believe that a conservative point of view was correct in my core. On this blog one evening, a couple of bloggers were discussing whether the South of the 1950s was more segregated than other sections of the country. Each blogger was trying to present himself as balanced and so they both conceded that neither the North nor the West was any less segregated or racist than the South. Each gave specific examples to support that point of view. And so they both had a balanced opinion and both left that topic satisfied with the discussion. The only thing that was wrong with their discussion, from my perspective, was that they were both wrong in terms of the truth. They were wrong precisely because they were trying to be so balanced. I remember the days in which entertainers would sometimes not come to the South because they could not stay in a motel with the white entertainers, as they could in the North and elsewhere. That was just one example that showed how the South with its legalized system of segregation was very different, during that era, from other parts of the nation. Both of these bloggers are probably 25 years younger than I am. I believe that I know the truth of that era in the South that they do not understand because they were almost too rationale in their mental processing of equal balance to have gotten to the truth.

When I first came to this blog, my instincts, and my insight into human nature, told me that one particular blogger had malevolent intent. I recommended that he be banned, not because he had maligned me in any way, but because he was doing so to another. I was criticized for even voicing that opinion. I have never suggested that another blogger be banned but I saw something especially dark in this one blogger. My suggestion was ignored, as was probably best at the time, but six months later that blogger was banned. Other bloggers were suggesting that he be banned at that time. One even warned that he appeared “psychotic” toward his target. I never mentioned my original impression. I mention it now simply to show that some insight comes from an understanding of human nature that goes deeper than a list of facts or balancing one “side” with another “side.” This does not make me “living in my own dream world of reality.” This simply says that I see with my own vision of reality based on the words and actions of others in the multilayered dimensions from which I have observed others in my 70 years. It is also based on events, as they have unfolded in the world, and what those events have signified to me. I have described my view of the world moving in a more egalitarian direction, not out of “nothing” or simply from my own musings, but from the events that have unfolded in reality in the past few hundred years. Every fact gathered does not have to be a statistical one. I yearn to know truth deeper and deeper and I am too old, and have limited time left, to care to spend that time researching many politcal blog sites – of either the right or the left – simply to prove how objective and balanced I am in my analysis. Some may get at truths through mathematical statistics. And that is a valuable way to arrive at truth. But there are other ways of arriving at truths. That is why I blog here. I think I have something to offer that is unique.

The other part of your post I will address later, regarding governments and greed.

You may enjoy reading this post on my own blog which explores elements of what I have written here.

http://maryelizabethsings.wordpress.com/2011/06/11/danger-zone-stereotypical-thinking/

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:44 pm

Leave the place better than you found it.

Alas, I never got to enjoy them as a boy. They just were not an option in Stickville, Kansas. Population – 48. (I’m not kidding!)

But I got quite involved as an adult when my son went through Cub Scouts, Webelos and Boy Scouts. And what a hoot!

And you’re right tc; take nothing but memories and leave nothing but footprints…

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
4:44 pm

gs @ 3:52: That sucks hopefully not too expensive.

Why do AC’s always seem to break at the start of summer instead of the end

Worse… I just had it serviced about two weeks ago. Luckily, I have a contract, so they’re getting someone out here tomorrow. Still have the upstairs a/c I can crank up if I want to cool the house….

Paul

May 4th, 2012
4:44 pm

JamVet

“By GOP standards, he is a moderate.”

Then by standards set by conservatives on this blog, he is not a Republican.”

josef

“Having specialized in the humanities myself, you can figure MY opinion of the scientists and THEIR priesthood!

Their “believers” are overall pompous, know it all asses so taken with the little bit they have figured out”

thought you might enjoy a light read -

http://tinyurl.com/7md56nq

Generation$crewed

May 4th, 2012
4:44 pm

Adam
May 4th, 2012
4:08 pm

Nah not that either.
Maybe its the energy all living things create, thus creating heat.
More people, therefore living beings, more heat produced, more heat trapped. Kinda how its cold under the covers when u first get in bed, but then your trapped body heat makes it warm. We got more trees than we did 50 yrs ago, not rain forest but trees and trees consume CO2.

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
4:46 pm

“Shane Mosley against Canelo Alvarez.

Alvarez is a BEAST with both hands.”

Speaking of throw hands……… Mosley better get out early and throw more than a few to get some respect………… He is aging and that young buck will be looking to press the fight

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:47 pm

tc, I was pretty much blown away,as I had always heard terrible things about the VA. Kinda like Grady.

But to many people’s credit (even those damn Republicans! LOL!) they turned that thing completely around.

And now they rock!

Certainly not for every GI, as I still hear horror stories, but all I can relay are my stories….

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
4:47 pm

Anyone else catch this?

In an interview on Fox News, Romney suggested the country should be seeing a growth of 500,000 jobs per month—nearly four times the job growth numbers the country experienced last month.

“We should be seeing numbers in the 500,000 jobs created per month,” Romney told Fox News. “This is way, way, way off from what should happen in a normal recovery. … This is not progress. This is very, very disappointing.”

Anyone want to bet how often there’s been a sustained job-creation of 500K jobs per month in this country?

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
4:49 pm

Here’s the answer:

But as the New York Times’ Peter Baker points out, the country has met that level of job creation in a single month just five times in the last 50 years—including just once each under Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton.

But FOX just let him say it without challenge.

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:49 pm

PAUL

Got it marked for reading in the a.m…..thanks!

DOGGONE

One of my favorites was from the Congregation bulletin about Mama coming to services attended by “three of her many sins” :-)

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:50 pm

“We should be seeing numbers in the 500,000 jobs created per month”

The man is in campaign mode.

That number is not remotely realistic…

Erwin's cat

May 4th, 2012
4:50 pm

Doom,
Statically significant isn’t what it sounds like it is…it doesn’t mean substantial or meaningful, just that the results are not likely the result of chance…the amount of data needed to determine if a result was or was not the result of chance is the significance level aka critical p-value and it is the probability of observing data at least as “radical” as what was already or previously observed..again, an indicator of chance results…the null hypothesis is a default position that there may be no relationship between two measured or observable occurrences..and can never be proven..data can only reject a null hypothesis or fail to reject it

I'm a "con" and a vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!! (That Black Guy)

May 4th, 2012
4:50 pm

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:37 pm
FORMAL BLACK GUY

Adam’s still a bit wet behind the ears… he’s gonna be alright,,,
___________________________________________________________________________

josef, how are ya?

You’re right about Adam, I just like to needle him.

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
4:51 pm

The man is in campaign mode.

why stop at 500K? Why not a MILLION? Or a BILLION??

He’s such a fake.

Doggone/GA

May 4th, 2012
4:51 pm

“One of my favorites was from the Congregation bulletin about Mama coming to services attended by “three of her many sins”

Yep, church errors are the BEST! I’m out for a while.

BADA BING

May 4th, 2012
4:54 pm

They got the Unibomber on a billboard? Did they use Bill Clinton, the ‘Unibanger’?

Towncrier

May 4th, 2012
4:56 pm

“They just were not an option in Stickville, Kansas. Population – 48. (I’m not kidding!)”

Wow JV, that is small. I grew up in rural New England so I can relate. But my home town population was in the thousands. Would it be improper to ask if you had running water? ;-)

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:56 pm

FORMAL BLACK GUY

Yeah, L’il Adam is so obliging to it, ain’t he? But, I will say this, even if he does take himself a little too seriously sometimes, he ain’t no dummy and, like our other younguns here ’bouts, gives me a lot of hope for the future…

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
4:59 pm

Man! The help around here has really sucked lately.

I’m starting without our supposed leader.

Harrumph…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSYbZTsY-00

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:59 pm

BADA

Unibanger? He’s the Multibanger… :-)

FORMAL BLACK GUY
As for the inquiry to how’m I…all things considered, not bad…thanks for asking. Sorry to hear you’ve had some knocks…but, hell, if you ain’t pushin up daisies, REJOICE! :-)

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
5:01 pm

“like our other younguns here ’bouts, gives me a lot of hope for the future…”

I would say Adam and ir(Rational) both are going to do just fine

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
5:02 pm

Jam

I’m with you………. In honor of our so called Mexican holiday

Sing it Freddy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qu8RPvhP-U

JamVet

May 4th, 2012
5:02 pm

tc, we did, but we also had an outhouse!

I went to a two room school until the seventh grade!

But you know what buddy? I loved it. (There goes any claim to being smart, huh? LOL at me!)

Hiding from each other in wheat fields, walking down the railroad tracks, looking for rattle snakes and horny toads, bailing hay and screaming down two lane highways in a kickass GTO listening to Grand Funk!

josef

May 4th, 2012
5:02 pm

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
5:02 pm

Logical Dude

May 4th, 2012
5:03 pm

ByteMe: Anyone want to bet how often there’s been a sustained job-creation of 500K jobs per month in this country?

Well, in january – march 2008 we had job losses of that magnitude, so really, it shouldn’t be that hard to reverse those numbers, right?

Right?

Hello?
:)

ByteMe - Political thug

May 4th, 2012
5:05 pm

Well, in january – march 2008 we had job losses of that magnitude, so really, it shouldn’t be that hard to reverse those numbers, right?

Ha!

SHEETS!!

Orange 12

May 4th, 2012
5:06 pm

Hey Jay,
They probably have an irrefutable argument that Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny and The tooth fairy aren’t real either. All you Libs need to donate some money to Jay so he can keep painting that pig (Obama’s Reelection Chances) with lipstick. After all, it must be getting expensive as that is mainly the bottom line of what he blogs about every day, and you Libs don’t want Jay head over heels in debt for lipstick expeditures. Do you? Especially after Mitt Romney wins the Presidency by a landslide.

They BOTH suck

May 4th, 2012
5:07 pm

show has started upstairs

see ya there

I'm a "con" and a vet. STOP SPITTING ON ME!!! (That Black Guy)

May 4th, 2012
5:08 pm

josef

May 4th, 2012
4:59 pm
BADA

Unibanger? He’s the Multibanger…

FORMAL BLACK GUY
As for the inquiry to how’m I…all things considered, not bad…thanks for asking. Sorry to hear you’ve had some knocks…but, hell, if you ain’t pushin up daisies, REJOICE!
_____________________________________________________________________

Just had a summer cold (spring cold?). Thing is I rarely get sick so I become a BIG baby when I do.

But you are right.

Any day on this side of the dirt is a good day.