With all its flaws, regional T-SPLOST still needed

But….but….MARTA!

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While I agree with your underlying analysis, Jay, I came to the conclusion that my vote would be “No”.

I’m not waiting for the state to fund transit the same way it funds highways.

I’m waiting for the state legislators to stop using MARTA as a political football and instead set up a regional transportation agency with the power to run the assets (including MARTA) at a regional level and to set up its own T-SPLOST if the voters approve of it (just like local counties can have their own SPLOST). Without one single regional coordinating agency to manage funds and assets, it’s just a band-aid on the wound instead of a solution to the problem.

And it ties into Deal’s political man being in charge of planning for state DOT. If they’re still using politics to define policy then they don’t get to ask for more money.

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Jay

I’m still a “No” vote. I know this area needs substantial funding for transit. This package is pure, unadulterated bullsh*t and does nothing to address the needs of the metro area. Add the fact that Deal put his crony in a position that will weigh heavily on this issue, and I can’t see myself voting for this crap. What we need instead is a legislature that has the testicular fortitude to do their damn job and legislate a sensible transit plan to help the metro area attract jobs and businesses.

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Can someone explain to me what MARTA has done to hack so many people off?

Simply exist.

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JAY,

Good column today. Why don’t we attempt to do a blend of each alternative? Kinda like we should be doing with energy policy. I don’t think MARTA is best near term oppty but not investing at all is ridiculous…of course so is the Sierra club..

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Will our wonderful government, with the proceeds, be able to sneak in the super perimeter? Just wondering.

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Damage is being done to the city that once held the Olympics. I don’t hear the curiosity from around the country about my hometown like I use to. I see young people moving away a lot more now days,a talent drain. As I read the back of alumni magazines where alumni write in; more and more young people with talent are choosing other places to call home. What stays here fits the theme of this city and feel comfortable in the conservative south.

I use to be proud that we were not a Birmingham. We had exceptional leadership in our early days that could see the playing field, had vision, loved their city and state. Ivan Allen, Jr, William B. Hartsfield., Ted Turner, Martin Luther King, Jr., Robert Woodruff’, Roberto Goizueta, to name a few no longer guide this city with their vision. Now we are the valley of lull with blind men leading the way out. Good luck, this is not your father’s Atlanta anymore.

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As long as the Georgia Legislature can ignore the fact that “Ethics Counts”, I am voting NO. How can the citizens be sure that our tax dollars will not be wasted? Where is the accountability? We do have a transportation problem, but this state has a bigger ethics problem. Where is the ethics committee?

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The harsh truth is we have Georgia politicians who won’t hesitate to help themselves to the financial gravy train any way they can. Any addtional revenues coming within reach of their hands will be pilfered accordingly. And Jay, please don’t tell me there are safeguards for these funds as that is like saying the foxes are guarding the henhouse.

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Sorry, off topic but stephan king tears all the wealth envy garbage to shreds-

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/05/01-3

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On this, I’m afraid I’ll be in the majority voting “no.” I realize that we need something, but this isn’t it. Jay is saying the politicians are going to look at it and say “well, they voted no, so they obviously don’t care about transit.” I’m thinking they’ve set this up so that no matter what, that is going to be what they can tell themselves. The amount of highway and road projects in the project list give them the opportunity to think we only want that type of solutions in Atlanta. So, for the simple reason that I don’t like the idea of throwing good money after bad, I’ll be voting no.

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Typical liberal mentality….the plan is flawed and will not be effective. It will lead to fraud waste and abuse. But let’s do it anyway. I’ll feel better about myself as long as we are spending lots and lots of money.

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History in this town has proven that those with vision are ridiculed by those without!! MARTA, in its initial design, was contemplated as a regional system…but those in the ‘burbs, in their expressed desire to keep the “other people” contained, have fought against the regional concept and persistently used MARTA as a punching bag while gaining the benefits!! Unless the T-SPLOST addresses the tax inequalities that Fulton and DeKalb have paid over 42 years with an increased MARTA tax in the ‘burbs, makes the ‘burbs cough up a more proportionate share of the tax revenue….and incorporate MARTA into a regional transportational system with both infrastructural and technological improvements, you can count me as a solid “NO”!!!

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Mick,
That was a great read.

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Ennis

May 2nd, 2012
8:32 am

Say what you will, but there is still a lot of “underground” prejudice in metro atlanta.
______________

That same prejudice can be heard from bloggers on this blog EVERYDAY!!

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Not nearly enough highway construction.

No vote here.

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dB

I’m so jaded, I look like the Incredible Hulk. I just don’t see a positive for the metro area coming out of this. If it passes, more roads get built. More roads = more congestion which does nothing to alleviate the problem. Also, if it passes, Deal’s guy has his hands all over the money. I don’t like the sounds of that at all as most Republicans appear allergic to addressing transit issues directly with effective responses.

If it doesn’t pass, the Ga Assembly will have an excuse to say why they didn’t do anything about it since the “taxpayers” don’t want it either. I would much rather see the state legislature do the job they’re getting wined and dined to do and legislate a transit plan that will help bring businesses and jobs to the area.

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Vote no.

We’ll be better off in 15-20 years if we can vote this down and take a couple of years to develop Plan B. Approving this referendum puts us down the wrong path for decades. Our obtuse legislature knows it can no longer ignore transportation infrastructure – it will have to work on Plan B.

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Say what you will, but there is still a lot of “underground” prejudice in metro atlanta.

Hate to spoil your post, but that sh*t ain’t underground…

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the Sierra Club had $l5,867 to donate to political candidates.

the total has increased to nearly double, at about $29,000.

wowie zowie. That’s some serious influence, man!

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Normal

You just ain’t normal…

—————————-

dB

$29,000 would get you a trip to Europe to study trains with about $12k to buy somebody else off in GA. I’d agree with you about some serious influence…

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Cosby

When MARTA is allowed to run itself without handcuffs, then they should be held responsible. As it is now, they’re handicapped by the Ga Assembly on how effective they can run. If the Ga Assembly wants to dictate how MARTA is run, then they need to pay for it. Otherwise, MARTA should not have to jump through hoops set ablaze by the state.

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MARTA will never remove the stigma that exemplifies the stupidity of their Board of electing the welfare Queen as Chairperson to “prove” a political point.

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Fred

MARTA IS the stigma. It’s never going away as long as MARTA exists. They could put Eric Cantor and Marco Rubio on the board, and that wouldn’t change a damn thing in the eyes of most Georgians.

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What I would really like to see in a plan with that kind of money is a few bullet type of trains going and coming from atlanta to Augusta-Columbia Macon-Savannah Chattanooga-Nashville. Birmingham-Memphis. I know this is only my wildest fantacy, but wouldn’t that be a kick in the butt???

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Jay supporting higher taxes. Say it isn’t so…

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Ennis – I’m wondering what happened with the “Brain Train” they’ve been talking about building since I was at least a freshman. It was supposed to connect GA State (maybe CAU, Spellman and Morehouse, with GT, Emory, some schools in Gwinnett and UGA.

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JamVet – Thanks again for letting me know what I believe in. Anything else I should know about myself?

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Did I mention you (ir)? I must have missed that part.

Paranoia will destroy ya. (grin)

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Brocephus: Amen, and they did it to themselves. It was “decided” or perceived early on that MARTA was a “black thing” as far as ridership AND jobs are concerned (whether it is TRUE or not). The Laura Lawton thing (wasn’t that her name) really cemented that idea in the eyes of those in the suburbs and surrounding Counties, the ones who HAVE to be on board for it to work.

But the truth be told, MARTA is dysfunctional. There is a stop less than a block from me, but the buses are so unreliable I don’t use it. Yet when I go to OTHER cities, I use THEIR mass transit without a care or concern. As does everyone else in those cities, but their mass transit runs on time and FOLLOWS an easily understandable schedule.

I’m stupid enough and “green” enough to ride MARTA if it were a viable option, it just isn’t though.

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JamVet – You, like just about everyone here at some point or another, have a habit of making broad brush statements that would include a lot of people you may or may not intend to include. Like that statement about the Republican party. While I don’t typically consider myself a republican, I do (I know, this will shock most of you ) typically vote for more republicans than democrats. So, your statement saying basically that all republicans, and by extension, I’m going to guess you meant all/most conservatives, believe in pollution and hate the environment (realizing I’m more paraphrasing than quoting there), did include me to a certain extent. I was just curious if there was anything else I didn’t know about myself that I might need to know before I get my day started.

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Bro – I’ll have to take your word for that, cause I wasn’t around then (before 1980). I’ll tell you my take on MARTA, and why I don’t ride it (much). When I’m going somewhere around town, I have to make the decision to ride the train/bus or drive (this is Atlanta, lets be serious, walking isn’t that much of an option). When making that decision, I think about cost (parking, gas, or tickets), where I’m going, how much time I have to devote to getting there, how long I’m going to be there, and what I’m going to be doing when I get there. I would say 99 times out of 100, my analysis would end up with me driving, and the other 1 time, it is a toss up. MARTA typically costs more than driving and parking, doesn’t go everywhere (read most places) I want to go, and takes much much longer to get me there. That is the stigma that I see, I was just curious what others said.

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…that would include a lot of people you may or may not intend to include.

If I INTEND to include you, or anyone else here I will name you, or them. Make no mistake about that.

Otherwise, you are just playing armchair psychic.

And this?

So, your statement saying basically that all republicans… is patently and logically fallacious.

Unless you can demonstrate where I said all Republicans.

Any other points you would like clarified? (grin)

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Hey! Isn’t today the day ol’ Newt is supposed to turn on, tune in, and….drop out?

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(ir)Rational

When I worked in Sandy Springs, I would have to go out of my way to take MARTA even though there was a train station almost right across the street from my job. The problem was that there was no easy access to a train station from my home on the South Side. I had to drive 30 minutes to East Point or College Park just to catch the train. Even for sporting events, I have to drive 30 minutes to catch a train downtown, and then I have to catch a shuttle for Braves games. It should not be that damned difficult to use transit in this area.

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“Sounds like a good plan to me. Only book of his I ever liked was “The Green Mile.””

and I’ve never read any, nor seen any movies made from them. Just not my taste in books AT ALL.

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Newt, another in a long list of horrific and ultra-embarrassing GOP candidates for POTUS in the past five years, becomes about the twentieth laughable footnote in the Uppity Muslims biography, brother Normal.

But in his own words he “ran a terrific campaign”.

By terrific, he meant horrendous.

Just another embarrassment for the Peach State, I’m afraid…

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jay
go ride Marta and ask all the riders who ride everyday whether they WANT to ride Marta everyday or whether they would prefer to have a car to drive?

All the white liberals will love Marta and all the rest will prefer to have a car so they can control their lives

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Brocephus and (ir)Rational (and everyone else I suppose lol): It’s as if MARTA has deliberately made everything hard for riders. And to be truthful, they have. Here is the schedule for me to ride the bus from my house to the Kroger’s 2-3 miles down the road: http://www.itsmarta.com/126-w.aspx and it took me 20 minutes to find it. But that ALSO doesn’t include weekends, or holidays……… what time is coming and what time is going? I dunno, couldn’t figure it out.

Also speaking of the Braves shuttle, look what they did to THAT Bro. They “decided” to send it to Auburn Avenue or 5 points or someplace else stupid and force people to walk through to another shuttle so they would “shop” there. They do everything to inconvenience riders that they can. There are so many pay offs and rip offs involved it makes Nathan Deal and Balfour look like choir boys.

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so poor minorities who must ride Marta cannot be allowed to increase their income and get a car because they will make traffic worse

the new Democratic campaign slogan

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I live in Fulton & I am voting No to this garbage. If you read the lists of targeted projects, there are many that are crappy but the one that sticks out to me is the $100 million for the Clayton Bus Service. This is the same bus service that went under because of low ridership.

Also, I am already paying a penny tax for the crappy MARTA system & the 400 tolls that the idiotic reps decided to keep collecting. More of my money given to the government = No thank you.

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Bro – That was basically my point.

Jay – Everyone (even you), at some point in time or another, does make a statement that could be considered “broad brush.” Having said that, your point was well taken and somewhat humorous.

JamVet – Maybe I misread, but when you start talking about the republican party, it implies to me that you’re talking about republicans in general.

Doggone – Not my style either, and I watched “The Green Mile” before I knew it was his. Typically if a movie is based off a book, I like to read it either before or after so I can be disappointed in the movie.

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Jay: Do you have a pretty straight shot from a train station to your office? I would bet though that MARTA makes special efforts to make it easy for the AJC and it’s people.

But yeah, I would love to ride and not have to hassle with the damn crazy Yankee drivers who foul up our roadways OR finding a place to park. Heck, in Decatur they charge me to park so I can pay my water bill. What the heck is up with THAT? Maybe I’ll try an experiment next time I have to pay my water bill and take Marta. I get three transfers if I read that right (each way). I wonder if that’s enough to get me from my house to Decatur. I wonder how long it will take and how far out of the way I’ll go to get from “here to there.”

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I won’t be supporting the SPLOST.

Building more roads isn’t the solution.

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Leadership is not making poor decisions when you know they are poor. Throwing money at a problem does not solve it. If you want me to lead…then elect me to solve the problem. The problem is you wouldn’t elect me because of the D or R that follows my name regardless on whether or not I could fix the problem. The problem is the people we elect to address these issues. Its just sad how little we know about our local politicians and how little we care about what we do know. Nathan Deal got elected Governor for goodness sake.

come on GT…a little reason please.

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“I use to be proud that we were not a Birmingham.”

And you still should be. Jefferson County/Birmingham is bankrupt.

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“I like to read it either before or after so I can be disappointed in the movie”

It doesn’t always work out like that though. I saw “Courage Under Fire” before I read the book, and the movie was better.

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“…in front of a bunch of redneck conservative hacks…”

Translation: I am a tolerant liberal.

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And with that, I must run off to a meeting or two.

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fred
dont be a hater, jay implies that if Marta riders started driving it would increase traffic. and as you know a vast majority of Marta riders are poor minorites who would love to own cars and have the freedom to drive where they want and not be a slave to mass transit schedules……….

the money would be better spent investing in job training and education of poor minorites and to entice business to come to atlanta and set up shop

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(ir)Rational: You are as nutty as a fruitcake lol. Jackson KILLED the Lord of the Rings. He turned Aragorn into some sort of wimpy assed anti king who didn’t want to lead. That’s just not how he was. There wasn’t a reason in the world that the Sword that was broked WASN’T reforged in Rivendale BEFORE they left as it was SUPPOSED to be. Should I continue lol?

What a bunch of poo poo. He’ll kill the Hobbit as well.

Fried Green Tomatoes was a good movie from a book.

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williebkind

What ever drug you are taking…Stop!

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Excuse me: “the”

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. Anybody can do nothing- exactly- or does one assume blogging is “doing something”

Anyway- Bookman- how about running through the history of the Ga 400 toll that simply keeps on going…..

How about an article on the Ga Lottery which works for the HOPE until it doesn’t. What the lottery really needs is more dumb ass commercials.

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Bottom line is something has to be done. If this is voted down there is no “Plan B” and won’t be. This is the first time in over 40 years that the region has worked together to pass a plan for transportation and transit. How can anyone expect it to be perfect. I’m pro transit but let’s be real; an all transit tax is not going to pass through the entire region. Maybe in just Fulton and Dekalb but then that still puts us back at square one.

There should be rail in the ‘burbs and eventually it will be there. Clayton has already expressed their want for transit, Gwinnett is about 50/50, and Cobb wants some kind of mass transit to bring folks into Atlanta. Transit (rail specifically) works fine here. There are almost 6 million folks here about about 3 million in Fulton/Dekalb. Are we going to have a NYC style system? No, but we can have a system that works for Atlanta, which is having TODs (transit oriented development) at each station. This works in DC so why can’t it work here? The ‘burbs of DC look no different from the ‘burbs here. The only difference is that they supported transit into the city and dense development near stations while the ‘burbs here were scared of the “elements” transit would bring.

It is time for the ‘burbs to support MARTA’s original plan and have rail bringing people into the city. Light rail and street cars are needed within ATL to provide access to areas outside of downtown, midtown, and Buckhead. Rail transit is much more preferred than bus transit and some areas don’t need heavy rail transit. This will provide those from the ‘burbs comfort that they can come into the city and not need a car. We also need to add the new transit options we need that weren’t part of the original plan, like the I285 light rail line, the Turner Field/I20 heavy rail line, and more BRT service.

We need to look at options such as more frequent service, 24 hours bus service on some routes and rail. As much as there is a need for transit we also do need roads. It’s a fact that some people are just not going to ride transit but we need roads for those people as well. New interchanges (ex. Ga 400 and I85) and wider roads. This also gets everyone something they want all while still working together as ONE region. MARTA recently put in a bid for federal money for projects that either didn’t make the list or were underfunded. Why would the feds give ATL money when local folks don’t want to even contribute? That’s billions of dollars going to other cities, along with economic growth, jobs, and eventually our success.

This is a historic bill. We worked together: democrates and repulicans, ITP and OTP, Clayton and Gwinnett — all as one region. If this doesn’t pass there isn’t going to be a “Plan B.” It is going to be Plan Nothing because nothing is going to happen and we are going to be stuck with the same problems and the same leadership that isn’t going to be willing to do anything to help MARTA or improve overall traffic!

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Milton Man- Glad to here there is no crime outside the perimeter. Why do I keep seeing those false stories in the AJC about shootings murders and carjackings in Dunwoody, Sandy Springs and Roswell to name a few suburbs. Must be all those dark folks that ride Marta – huh?

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Fred — “Jackson KILLED the Lord of the Rings.”

When I heard that Peter Jackson was going to direct LOTR, I couldn’t believe it. Jackson’s the same guy who directed *this* early in his career; a film that caused an emergency session of the New Zealand Parliament.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097858/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097858/reviews

It’s an incredibly sick and perverse puppet comedy; think of The Muppets on LSD, and heavily armed. In it, you’ll see:

A cockroach directing a porn film starring a cow and an anteater.

A knife-throwing lizard with the DTs who accidentally kills his assistant.

A hen demanding child support from the father of her child — and daddy is an elephant.

And it just gets sicker from there. Absolutely DO NOT let the kids watch it; even if they happen to spot the funny puppets on the tape/DVD cover. You have been warned.

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Again the perfect progressive solution to a problem caused by government planners in the first place; raise taxes damnit! And then let the government fix it. Yeah that’ll work every time.

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TBone
don’t forget the kicker……. they want to FORCE all of us to ride mass transit when even the poor minority portion of their constituency who do ride mass transit would prefer to acquire a vehicle to not have to depend on mass transit

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I rode MARTA for years as a middle-aged white man. The only real problem I had was the large number of hostile hate-filled stares I got from many of the African-Americans who rode daily. So, I just started bringing a book to read and did my best to ignore them. And yes, Jay, this is a fact. It really happened.

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Jay:
I am a Liberal and a proud Democrat and I will be voting no. Not because I’m against using tax dollars for transportation and infrastructure investment, which I’m not, but because the current governor and his adminstration will not use the funds effectively to solve the transportation problems faced by Metro Atlanta. If and when, they present a plan which improves public transport (rail/light rail) within the city and expands/connects it the surrounding municipalities to take cars off the road, then I’m all in. If not, then they can count on my opposition.

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Oh my God. This is just plain absurd. Jay citing the sierra club as an authority on whether we should build more roads or go to mass transit.Puhlease!

Get it through your thick skulls folks. Mass transit does not work. The only place it really works that well in the U.S. is in New York due to population density. So we simply do not have that population density here to make it feasible. Any idiot should be able to see that.

“The typical suburban community houses about 2500 or 30000 people per square mile, but transit’s share of commute trips is insignificant for tracts with fewer than 4,0000 people per square mile. Generally speaking, transit’s market share doesn’t exceed 20 percent on average until densities reachy five and six times the density of a typical suburban community.”- The road less traveled. Ted Balaker and Sam Staley.

And clearly mass transit doesn’t work in ATL. If it did MARTA wouldn’t be the mess it is with all the financial woes now would it???

The Sierra club is just another 3rd party who would pay no price for their centrally planned vision being wrong if we poured money into mass transit as opposed to more roads.

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I won’t suport TSLOST.
The there is no need to commit to fifteen years of a big tag and a weak project list. If we say no, they will come back with a proposal that more accurately reflects our needs as a metro region. Don’t take a bad plan when a better plan can be developed.

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Don’t trust anything the Sierra Club has to say.

Sierra Club Boots Florida Chapter Over Clorox Deal

This is the first time in Sierra Club’s 116-year history that it has endorsed a product and even Club executive director Carl Pope, who’s been a driving force in the partnership, admitted that the decision by a well-known environmental group to endorse a company known for its bleach, plastics, and chemical products is “controversial.” Just one example of the conflict of interests inherent in such a partnership: In the same month that the Sierra Club decided to put its logo on Green Works products Clorox was fined $95,000 by the EPA for donating illegal, mislabeled, Chinese versions of its disinfecting bleach to a Los Angeles charity.

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“While public attitudes toward transit are changing in the metro region, we’re probably still a decade away from a political climate in which transit can be funded at the levels that the Sierra Club would find acceptable”

Yes. Of course. We should do all this until a 3rd party like the sierra club deems it as being “acceptable” to them and what their personal vision of how things should be done is met.

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kayaker,

Amtrak. There ya go again. Throwing a monkey wrench in Jay and the Sierra club’s nonsense about mass transit again.

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MARTA is being ignored because it is a wasteful entity. They can’t provide decent security, easy access and pride in its operations. A lot of the employees are great but there are many who are rude
and unprofessional. Until they can prove to be more efficient and an actual asset to our transportation
needs they will continue to be ignored. Government subsidized public transportation has always been costly and inefficient…..can anyone say privatize. What is lacking, besides leadership, are practical and sound decisions.

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“The only real problem I had was the large number of hostile hate-filled stares I got from many of the African-Americans who rode daily.”

I never had that problem Carlos. More like just bad manners being an issue. Young people that talk really loud on their cell phones and play their music on their headphones so loud that everyone else can hear their music. Lotta people in the younger crowd that just didn’t have any proper home training.

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K71 — “The biggest mass transit mess in the whole US is AmTrack. It is still about 3B dollars in debt, losing close to 944M dollars last year alone. That is despite carrying nearly 22.5M passengers. Your Dept of Transportation at work.”

Amtrak costs about the same, when subsidies and total mileage are taken into account, as commercial air transport (both passenger and cargo) costs in the US.

Don’t know if you’ve ever traveled on Amtrak; I have, and if you’ve got the time, it’s certainly more comfortable than air travel. The food’s better, too, and given how much I used to travel by air in my work, I’m accustomed to traveling in First Class in the air.

From a frequent passenger perspective, Amtrak costs less, is less hassle and more comfortable IMO. The downside is that it takes a bit longer to get where you’re going.

That said, the wife and I are looking at taking Amtrak’s Empire Builder end-to-end sometime soon. Seattle to Chicago, with lots of views of beautiful American scenery right outside the picture windows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Builder

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Elizabeth Warren is failing

Can’t raise money in MA so she goes to CA to get money

Now she claims she is native American

Sad woman, no cred

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We would already have lots more mass transit if Marta hadn’t blown it’s budget for 30 years

If they used their 50% capital allocation to expand rail instead of buying thousands of fancy buses, Atlanta would be on the move

Instead Atlanta is stuck in neutral

And Marta is very much partly to blame

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Doom — “I never had that problem Carlos. More like just bad manners being an issue. Young people that talk really loud on their cell phones and play their music on their headphones so loud that everyone else can hear their music. Lotta people in the younger crowd that just didn’t have any proper home training.”

Agree. I used MARTA when I was in grad school and that’s about all the problems I had on board, too. Then again, I’m 6′5″ and was fresh out of the Army back then, so maybe that had something to do with it, too.

IMO, if you mind your own business on the train, everyone else will, too.

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Jb

TX is a great state

Low regulation = good growth

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JB – Well, besides JHM pointing out the obvious, I would say they lack a state income tax and are located in a right to work state. But that could just be a guess.

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Nelsonhoward aka o daft one

Better to build something people will use than build something like transit that few will use

Or don’t you understand basic economics?

Good grief

That is the lamest argument ever: don’t build it because people will use it

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Although, I can’t for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to move to Houston. The only times I’ve ever been there, I couldn’t get past the humidity. It seemed even more onerous than that which we have here. Then again, of all the places I’ve been, I’ve liked the deserts the best just because of the lack of humidity.

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“Milton Man- Glad to here there is no crime outside the perimeter.”

When did I ever say no crime clown??? There is a big, big difference between no & low – so simple that even a liberal mind can understand.

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compare those 4 cities with the great experiment say in Detroit the last 30 years. (Leadership and politics are pretty important to a city.)

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Oh, and MiltonMan – I wasn’t referring to traffic during rush hour. Do/have you ever tried to drive around Kennesaw or Alpharetta during the middle of the day? The roads are just as full as they are during rush hour. Same thing on the weekends, and in the evenings. That’s what I was referring to. When I lived OTP, I came to work early and left early to avoid the bulk of rush hour. Then it seemed that everyone was doing that, and my commute was just getting worse no matter what time I tried to get on the roads. So I moved.

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“what do these 4 in the top 5 have in common. Dallas,Houston,San Antonio,Austin ?”

They are in Texas. What do I win?

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godless – A trip to the small town of your choice in Texas. All expenses paid (by you of course). Just don’t go announcing your blog-name there, I’ve heard they’re somewhat wrapped up in that particular myth in Texas.

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“Out of the top 5 fastest growing cities just released by Forbes, what do these 4 in the top 5 have in common. Dallas,Houston,San Antonio,Austin ?”

No state income tax.

Atlanta comes in at #10 even though Jay had a piece last week about Detroit being a better city than Atlanta.

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“In comparison, leader Fox News CHannel was up 2% in total viewers (1.1 million) and 1% in 25-54 (273,000)”

yet somehow faux news isn’t part of the “msm”?? hilarious.

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Infrastructure Fan

May 2nd, 2012
7:44 am
Obama is a bad President. He doesn’t want to raise the gas tax which was last increased during the Clinton administration and has only half the purchasing power now
———————————————————————————————————-
How is it the conservative Republicans/Tea Party Activists/Libertarians all claim to want less government intrusion and lower taxes, then turn around and complain that government is not doing enough by refusing to raise taxes? How do I know you are a conservative Republican/Tea Party Activists/Libertarian? The first 5 words of that post gave it away.

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Righty — “Where are those liberals who yesterday were were claiming CNN and MSNBC were out drawing FOX News?”

I don’t know; who was making the claim?

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It make sno sense; so much of the TSPLOST money is earmarked for regular maintenance of roads and infrastructure that we already pay taxes for – paving and striping and traffic lights. If that isn’t a regular function of our governments then what is?

What’s next with these ridiculous special taxes? How about a PSPLOST – pay your police officers? How about a CSPLOST – fund the courts? How about a LSLOST – pick up litter?

Vote no to more taxes with minimimal payback.

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non support of marta has caused the traffic problem we currently have today

have you been too DC lately……………. hello mcfly

they have traffic problems as well

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jay
you didn’t understand the premise………….. i made no judgement on the numbers……….. my judgement was on the liberal media and their placing of the numbers story………..

so now with any claim by a democrat or a republican

we are to take it with a grain of salt

so if jay gives us any numbers or statistics……… don’t believe him
take it with a grain of salt

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JB,

I am going to asume they are led by R mayors. I have comcast as my ISP and I regularly see something interesting from them on their home page news. They regularly post things like the 10 most broke cities, the 10 best retirement states, the 10 worst retirement states, etc. About a year ago they posted the 10 most broke cities. I looked it up and 8 of them were run by Ds. Of the 2 that were run by Rs one of them had just recently turned R after having a D mayor for 28 years. A month or 2 ago they had the ten worst states to retire in. 8 of the 10 again were Dem states. Why? They had the highest taxation rates which hurts seniors on fixed income and the slowest growth rates. Interestingly when you loook at Chicago and Illinois that state typically ranks in the mid 40s in terms of economic prospects, growth, jobs gained, population gained, etc. And yet we elected a senator from that poorly run state. Go figure.

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U. Samantha — “have you been too DC lately……………. hello mcfly”

I have. What’s your point?

“they have traffic problems as well”

Come now. Nobody’s saying that transit solves *all* traffic problems. That said, Bryan is exactly right when he says that DC suburbs supported transit and Atlanta suburbs didn’t. You can catch a METRO train from Falls Church — an hour-plus outside the District during rush hour with little trouble whatsoever. And they’re still looking to expand it and bring service to more people in the area; the Silver Line to Dulles International Airport should be up and running in a few years IIRC.

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Bryan — MARTA supporter

May 2nd, 2012
11:06 am
@ Thulsa Doom May 2nd, 2012 10:10 am

“Mass transit works just fine here because there is enough people here to support it, especially if it was supported outside of Fulton and Dekalb.”

Bryan,

As I just pointed out to you with a book from 2 authors who studied urban transit and road building the problem is simple. We just don’t have the population density required to make urban transit efficient. Its that simple sir. If there is a lack of support it is precisely because of this.

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If there is a lack of support it is precisely because of this.

My lack of support for transit is because I have no options to support. Bring the trains down to Henry County, and I would cut over 800 miles a month off my car. The only way I wouldn’t ride it is if the monthly pass set me back more than $200 a month as that’s about what I’m paying for gas every month.

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Ennis

I don’t want to bring up this old racist bit, but a lot of “white” suburbs don’t want a easy way for the “N” people getting into “their” neighborhoods

____________________________________

YES …. even though we try to find other ways to cloak the reality!!!!!!!

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Bro – I haven’t used one of those since just after HS when I would go hang out in the tech lab during the summer. They had a full set up, with yolk, pedals, and an instrument panel plus the teacher was a friend. Ah, good times. I was just thinking, I have my old desktop hooked up to my big screen, maybe I should look at getting something set up on it, that could be fun.

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Pull the Northern Arc (which will pollute our water supply, destroy fishing, hiking and hunting), and those stupid Atlanta Streetcars (what a joke as it relates to transportation solutions), and then you might get some support. Without it, this is DOA.

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“you mean CO2 is a GOOD THING!!!!!!!!!”

So is aspirin, but if you take too much it can kill you.

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its time to stop aspirin manufacturing
it can kill you

we need a global initiative to stop this horrendous substance that can kill

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Looks like that ballyhooed Wash DC rail transit system just had a 103 million dollar shortfall and had to raise fares as of about 5 days ago. Sound familiar guys?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/26/metro-oks-increases-for-rail-bus-parking/

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Amazing how people see solutions to 21st century issues – traffic, congestion – in terms of 19th century technology. Trains to Henry County? Outrageous costs, far beyond the operating costs of a million cars for years. Bullet trains to Augusta? Who’d ride them, and at what beyond incredible cost?

You could effectively ride a train from Atlanta to Augusta, or anywhere else in this state, including Henry County, until the mid-1960s. (My mother regularly had us board a train in Union City for a trip to LaGrange.)

The service died because it was economically unfeasible, and that was with the necessary infrastructure already in place. It isn’t there now.

Trains died a natural death, just like the dinosaurs.

Build some bus lanes (same speed as a train), encourage/require teleworking and car pooling, and build natural gas low emission vehicles that get 40-50 MPG.

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Bryan

Sales taxes are the most stable form of tax revenue

If Marta can’t cover operating costs with rider fees plus several hundred million in additional operating subsidies, then they have no business existing at all

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If MARTA disappeared the only impediment left to driving in the right lane would be UPS trucks and people shopping for drugs and/or hookers. Currently if you are in the right lane in Metro Atlanta you have to stop every block for the MARTA bus to ingress and egress people who can’t afford a flivver. Relax Jay. You will carry the day on July 1. Don’t know what I’ll be doing but it certainly won’t be voting on another tax. But in November it will be a different story.

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“Buncha Rethuglican crooks”.

“The only people they’ll help with that money is themselves.”

“they’ve demonstrated no other intention than to make themselves rich at taxpayer expense.”

“Yeah, keep voting for these creeps”

I can always depend on Matti for a good laugh. She do loves her emotional rhetoric and hyperbole she do.

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If it was up to the cons on this blog, Atlanta would quickly become Los Angeles of the east. We would have 10 lane highways criss-crossing every few blocks of the region. I can hear the chants know — Drill Baby Drill and Interstate Highways for All!

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ir(Rational)
read back/to/future post above you

time to take a page from Obama

we need to move FORWARD

not backward

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republican pickles
dill baby dill

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Doom — “We just don’t have the population density required to make urban transit efficient.”

Cobb does. So does Gwinnett. And Henry probably does, too, in parts.

U. Samantha — “tell me what attractions, businesses and federal govt jobs in downtown atlanta WARRANT the same mass transit as DC?”

Tell me what’s out in the Loudoun County, Virginia countryside, past Dulles International Airport (itself some 45-60 minutes away from the District) that WARRANTS spending almost $7 billion on a rail line?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Line_(Washington_Metro)

“you can’t make it fit in atlanta”

When you’ve explained to me the cost justification for the Washington Metro’s Silver Line, then you’ll also have explained to yourself the cost justification for expanding MARTA rail service in Atlanta.

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As much as I agree w your comments, I’m voting no. I live in Fulton and shouldn’t pay a penny more than the ‘burbs so their transit issues are addressed and MARTA is treated like the plague. In the words of Mike Singletary, “can’t do it. Won’t do it!”

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Dawgdag
“most Georgians” don’t pay for Marta

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hussein

washington dc
home to
largest employer in the country – the federal government
largest collection of tourist sites in the country
largest collection of lobbyist companies that lobby the federal govt

that is DC’s justification for a train into the city

Atlanta
home to
ga state govt
world of coke

not exactly DC in terms of pull of people into the city
that is why ATL is not a fit for DC model

you cannot compare the two dynamics

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DONT FORGET

thanks for the education…………..next you are going to tell me that OXYGEN can kill you……. let me check…………..

what!!!!!!!!!! omg

oxygen can kill you………… we need to regulate that as well

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Harsh way of conveying most Georgians don’t feel obligated to enslave themselves to an inefficient financial sinkhole that won’t solve their transportation issues.

Most Georgians don’t fund MARTA, that is, unless they shop in Fulton or Dekalb counties. I’m sure, however, that the state of Georgia would love to reap the benefits of having easy commutes to and from work in the state’s largest metropolitan area. It would make things that much easier to attract more businesses to move here without giving them a tax break that takes the state 200 years to break even.

*for those who didn’t know, the tax break statement was a case of obvious sarcasm….

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” Drill Baby Drill and Interstate Highways for All!”

I can rally around that flag!

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“Oh, and by the way, anyone who thinks trains in Europe are cheap is sadly mistaken. A single, one-day 20-mile commuter roundtrip in London to our main office routinely costs employees of our company more than $100. ”

well, criminey – part of that is the exchange rate.

the other part of that, you can thank Margaret Thatcher and privatization – once the companies were privatized, ticket costs skyrocketed (and continue to do so)

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Not to mention, I go farther than that – and the single, one-day 20-mile commuter roundtrip WITH UNLIMITED TUBE is more like $22.50, so I question your math

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MiltonMan @9:40. Thanks!

williebkind
May 2nd, 2012
9:42 am

What ever The Sierra Club is for I am against. They are the reason prices are so high and continue to rise. They are border line terrorist.

Wow, talk about demented.

But then an instant superb comeback…

Normal Free, Plain and Simple
May 2nd, 2012
9:44 am

What ever drug you are taking…Stop!

And to prove just how far from the mainstream that his GOP has become:

The Sierra Club is just another liberal focus group…

Per 71, it is official, being for the environment is liberal. Sure makes these Republicans look bad, huh?

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Uncle Samantha – (sorry to hear about your gender confusion)

Cause is cause … facts is facts …

when you compare rail costs in the UK (privatized) to those in Europe (state supported), those of us in the UK pay more.

sorry that you can’t wrap your little mind around that simple fact.

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“So the people that actually use the system have to pay instead of the system sponging off of the taxpayer? The HORROR!”

um. yeah. who exactly do you think USES the system everyday, dearie …

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Love your logic grasshopper. I don’t use the fire department every day. Why should I pay for it?

Heck, I’ve NEVER needed the fire department. I shouldn’t have to pay for it unless I need it.

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“um. yeah. who exactly do you think USES the system everyday, dearie …”

Clearly not every taxpayer does. Or the prices would not be so high, sweetie.

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“Love your logic grasshopper. I don’t use the fire department every day. Why should I pay for it?

Heck, I’ve NEVER needed the fire department. I shouldn’t have to pay for it unless I need it.”

Because you might need it one day genius.

I, on the other hand, will NEVER need a bullet train to Augusta.

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F. Sinkwich
May 2nd, 2012
11:54 am
” Drill Baby Drill and Interstate Highways for All!” I can rally around that flag!

Why yes Sinkwich, you are a shining example of the 1950’s-era mantra of the Republican group-think lemmings.

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but grasshopper………. it will get you there faster if you ever did use it

i think it was WSB that did an investigation on airplane flights from atl to macon that taxpayers paid for to relieve congestion and drive time………… it turned out it took longer to fly to macon than to hop in your car and drive

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Thulsa @ 11:39,

So glad I could entertain you. I take it from your ridicule of me and my reasons, that you’re voting YES on the tax, then?

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USinUK

and governments can have GSA parties that cost $800,000

$$$ can be wasted by GOVT just as well

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“but grasshopper………. it will get you there faster if you ever did use it”

At what cost? If a private company wants to build it and make some money off of it (if possible) have at it. The one time a decade I need to visit Augusta, I can drive on the road that my tax money has already paid for, thanks much.

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U. Samantha — “hussein”

Yes?

“that is DC’s justification for a train into the city”

You clearly aren’t getting the point that train lines run in *two* directions. I know why there are lines *into* the city. So tell me why they’re building THIS line OUT of the city:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Line_(Washington_Metro)

What’s out in the Virginia sticks that there needs to be a rail line out there?

“not exactly DC in terms of pull of people into the city”

Again, you don’t get it. City is one side of the equation. The burbs are the second side, and you seem to be ignoring that.

“that is why ATL is not a fit for DC model”

I’m not arguing *for* the DC model. I’m arguing *for* increased transit.

“you cannot compare the two dynamics”

I’m not. But you seem to be.

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Uncle Sam …

no … government waste??? really??? say it isn’t so!!!

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hussein
you are arguing for increased transit for a “consumer” that is not there

are you arguing that the poor minority riders of mass transit WANT to commute to the burbs?

once they do and make more money they will move to the burbs and then buy a car!

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Grasshopper — “There is insufficient density there. Go see fotr yourself. No one lives there dude.”

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. You don’t need density ON THE SPOT in order to have a multimodal station there.

There is TONS of residential and business density in the Platinum Triangle area, and I think *you* need to go see it for *your*self.

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Someone asked what we should do in a less dense city. First we should wait instead of wasting $3 or $4 billion. We’ll never get that money back if we do it wrong.

Next, this money should be for capital projects, not for paving roads that Atlanta should be paving in its city budget or supporting bus service that Clayton County won’t pay for itself.

The suburbs need express park n ride buses and more roads. HOT lanes are a way to get funds to help pay for expanded capacity that can be used for buses and vanpools. Maybe add commuter rail in certain places. You could buy buses and prepare lots, but the suburbs need to have a continuing funding mechanism for operations.

The inner areas needs to connect the major employment centers (Emory, Cumberland Mall) with MARTA, not with toy trains that force people to transfer. People make rational decisions and aren’t going to do something slower and more expensive. And the city needs better roads too and more express buses and HOT/HOV lanes. The beltline would help a lot more in transit if it was used by local and express buses instead of just a toy train to take the upper middle class to the zoo and park on weekends.

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USinUK
and you know where they are coming……… former colonies that the UK ravaged and created such poverty and despair that the only hope they have is to come to UK because of that connection

don’t fool yourself into thinking UK is the better draw…………….

how many of us former colonist from US are begging the UK to take us back?

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I can drive on the road that my tax money has already paid for, thanks much.

Be sure to give a big wave and howdy when you drive past these mooches near Covington, y’all hear?!

Baxter International could get more than $210 million in incentives from state and local governments for building its new bio-pharmaceutical manufacturing facility about 40 miles east of Atlanta.

When Gov. Nathan Deal announced last week that Georgia had landed the high-tech Baxter International factory, the state Department of Economic Development estimated the state would give the company $80 million in incentives.

Whoops! The Crooked Deal Gang was only off by a factor of 262%.

Imagine that…

Alison Tyrer, the department’s spokeswoman, said she based the initial estimate on incentives that were specially crafted for Baxter and job tax credits. She did not include tax breaks and incentives every company can take advantage of, such as Baxter’s estimated $1.3 million in energy sales tax exemptions…

YEAH!

More Republican socialism for corporate persons in Georgia!

And capitalism for the rest of us.

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I was an almost sure yes vote until I saw the project list. Its got a bunch of people’s pet projects for their real estate developer friends that does little to solve the problems and creates long term funding issues.

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“and you know where they are coming……… former colonies that the UK ravaged and created such poverty and despair that the only hope they have is to come to UK because of that connection”

Poland used to be a former colony??? who knew!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5273356.stm

darlin, India and Pakistan immigration still happens – but you’re sooooo stuck in the past.

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Jm — “Joe mama, Go do some research”

I keep asking questions, and y’all keep dodging them.

“You need densities of like 20,000 per mile for transit and 5 or 6k for bus”

Explain this rail line, then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Line_(Washington_Metro)

“Commuter rail wouldn’t be a budget buster as long as you use existing rail infrastructure”

What are your thoughts about bus fixed guideway and light rail?

“However, scheduling will be a mess and freight rail guys hate it, understandably so”

That’s even a problem with Amtrak. If you get an unscheduled freight train coming through the city at the wrong time, that’ll throw off the Crescent’s schedule. The reason is that Amtrak contracts with rail freight haulers to use their rails — but the freight gets higher priority than the passengers.

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Joe Mama,

Nope. You are dead wrong. There simply isn’t enough density in those areas you describe- particularly Henry county. Its kind of a standard rule of theumb that for rail transit to be highly efficient you need population density of around 20,000. And at that I-75 transit point that you speak of there are lots of businesses but very little residential. People would still have to drive just to get to the rail station. It is just not feasible.

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i cant wait to grow up one day and to ride a crowded train to to work so i can pay taxes to the govt so they can provide for me

i cant wait to grow up and to drive my own car and to work so i can earn money to do the things that will bring me happiness

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Bernie Madoff? Isn’t he one of your 1% socialist heroes, RB?

The insane thing about these massive giveaways is that these Kings of Mooch move their companies here, “promising” X numbers of jobs.

And when that never happens, there are no consequences. The loot is theirs to keep.

Hell, these corporate persons are on a level with the Major League Baseball Players Association. But they don’t even need a Marvin Miller or a labor union. They can get the owners – the Governor Deals of this country – to cave and give them everything they want even though they are hitting .240.

Good work if you can get it. (But YOU can’t.)

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“UK wants you to ride a train and be corraled like cattle
US wants you to drive a car and to be free”

um. yeah. the UK “WANTS” you to ride a train and be corralled???

oy.

you really haven’t been paying any attention, have you???

(not to mention, you OBVIOUSLY have never been here and tried driving in London)

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“i cant wait to grow up one day and to ride a crowded train to to work so i can pay taxes to the govt so they can provide for me

i cant wait to grow up and to drive my own car and to work so i can earn money to do the things that will bring me happiness”

you really should seek help.

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USinUK
we have agreement

in a large city like London or NY………. trains and mass transit WORK BEST………

what we differ on is that you are trying to apply the LONDON / NY model to places that it doesn’t work.

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Grasshopper — “I have and no there is not.”

Sorry, you’re wrong. There’s tons of it up there.

IIRC, the reason the project didn’t get built is that there’s more political support for rail than for a multimodal station. There’s still discussion of rail being built through that very area and up towards Kennesaw, right through the zone where you say there’s insufficient density.

And again, if density is the magic word, then find me some out at the end of this corridor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Line_(Washington_Metro)

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Uncle Samantha –

with more than 5 million people in the Metropolitan area, you don’t consider that a “large city”???

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i cant wait to grow up and to drive my own car and to work so i can earn money to do the things that will bring me happiness.

Yep, like INSANE commute times – the worst in the country – every single awful day of your working lives from Snellville, Lawrenceville, Suwanee, John’s Creek, Cumming, Milton, Alpharetta, Woodstock, Douglasville and Powder Springs. AND places beyond!

No wonder those suburban Republicans are so damn mad all of the time! I can’t begin to understand how they do it, five days a week, fifty weeks a year!!

Enjoy your happy rides, rubes…

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“and fwiw, I’d rather ride a crowded train every day than sit in traffic …”

and fwiw I would rather sit in a car and listen to my own music and not have to put up with stinky passengers, rude people playing their music loud, singing, etc.

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USinUK

atlanta is not set up on grids like NY and it dosn’t have the business “downtown” that pulls all commuters into it

atlanta is a SPREAD areas of lower density than other metropolitan areas

you cannot fit a square peg into a round hole

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jamvet
i love seeing all the joyful and happy commuters on the marta buses and trains………… they seem so ecstatic

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“and fwiw I would rather sit in a car and listen to my own music and not have to put up with stinky passengers, rude people playing their music loud, singing, etc.”

dude.

iPod.

it’s your friend.

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“That increased ridership would mean more shopper, of all stripes, coming into the area…”

What shopping does one do in and around all the marta stops like in downtown? There are plenty of stores, malls, and all that are out in the burbs. And when I’m downtown frankly I don’t see much of retail stores. A lot of businesses like banks, office toweres, etc. but little in the way of shoppping experiences.

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RE: “an opportunity for progress should be embraced rather than rejected.”

I don’t regard T-SPLOST as an opportunity for progress. I view it as an opportunity for regress.

I’m less interested in the project itself than I am in the funding mechanism. The legislature has been passing special interest income tax breaks for years now, and by subsequently seeking increases in sales taxes, they are slowly and deliberately seeking to shift the tax burden from the rich to the middle class and, primarily, the poor.

I agree with Jay, that our regional transportation system is in dire need of expansion, repair, and upgrades…but not on the backs of the poorest among us.

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Private hiring is expected to easily exceed the 200,000 level, offset to a degree by a continued loss of public-sector jobs.

– Jay Bookman

Let’s talk jobs…..or are you waiting for tomorrow’s confirmation?

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Pick your poison, 20 minutes on a train or 50 minutes in gridlock.

But don’t get me wrong, it’s not like I’m saddened by the yokels moving along at 15MPH from Bumpkinburb.

Gawdknows it is one of their few self-destructive ways that don’t impact me…

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Doom — “and fwiw I would rather sit in a car and listen to my own music and not have to put up with stinky passengers, rude people playing their music loud, singing, etc.”

Folks used to ask me how I could stand flying through Hartsfield twice a week, every week.

I’d ask them how they could stand getting on the Perimeter twice a DAY, every day.

At least during my commute I got to sit, read the paper, enjoy a drink and not stress about driving — the dude up in the cockpit took care of that.

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Uncle Samantha -

as one who has lived in both places, I can tell you that – when it comes to suburban sprawl and a spread-out “office space”, the two are VERY alike.

the difference? no grits here … and they have a love of baked beans at breakfast that surpasses all understanding.

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TD. They also don’t consider more people on transit reduces gas taxes which is a primary road funding source. They’ll want to raise that next when that well runs dry.

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Joe mama

Bus lanes I think are a great cost effective solution

Bus guideways are cheaper than light rail

But I think both of those are only useful in small areas

I’d also like to echo the folks who pointed out the silliness of having two technologies that require transfer

That said, it’s a better solution than none, or the insanely expensive one: heavy rail everwhere

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kamchak
you made me wet myself

every kid dreams of going to the aquarium, six flags, sporting events and parks

guess what

other places have those

ridiculousness

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“Pick your poison, 20 minutes on a train or 50 minutes in gridlock”

You have to get to the train first. It doesn’t come to your front door.

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“I did. Makes you wonder why they’re building the Silver Line, doesn’t it?”

Given their budget shortfall and the need for federal money to subsidize local projects like this it makes me wonder why also. But then when 3rd parties can make decisions without being directly accountable for the failure of their pet projects is it any wonder projects like amtrak and marta got built.

I will believe that a rail in Cobb that you speak of will work when they can get the existing mart line to work without budget shortfalls. Till then talk of rail lines in other areas of metro atl working when the current rail network doesn’t even work is just more liberal whimsicalnesss and foolishness.

Despite the evidence of marta’s failure right in front of your very own eyes you continue to tout that it will work if we only build in other areas of atl as well. Bizarre.

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RB from Gwinnett,

They don’t consider a lot of things. Such is life in the bizarro world of the kook left.

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Jm — “But I think both of those are only useful in small areas”

“I’d also like to echo the folks who pointed out the silliness of having two technologies that require transfer”

“That said, it’s a better solution than none, or the insanely expensive one: heavy rail everwhere”

I agree on most counts, but I have to ask — aren’t you arguing for *some* transfer methodologies, or else doing away with the existing heavy rail infrastructure? If you want lighter forms of transit and minimized transfers between modes, then don’t you have to get rid of some or all of the heavy rail? That seems like a huge cost.

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“They also don’t consider more people on transit reduces gas taxes which is a primary road funding source.”

and when you have fewer people on the road, you don’t NEED as much money to fund repairs … expansion … etc

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“5 minute drive to the station”

And how many people in ATL have a 5 minute drive to a marta rail station? And then there is the 10-20-30 minute wait for the train.

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JHM – It seems like someone should come up with a way to run light rail trains on heavy rail lines. Seriously, it could reduce the need for those transfer stations.

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every kid dreams of going to the aquarium, six flags, sporting events and parks

Only kids are tourists?

You really are a very silly person.

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Joe mama
In not arguing for scrapping the heavy rail

Call me pangloss. I think the proposed solution (list) is about as good as it can be

I might have tilted the spending more to roads

But toll roads could help fix that

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aaaaaaaaaaaaaand, that’s what we’re talking about, numpties … INVESTMENT … which means MORE stations that would be CLOSER, including a multi-modal station

oy to the vey …

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UNCLE SAMANTHA

May 2nd, 2012
12:33 pm
“USinUK said
but, I think government subsidization is a good thing – the fewer cars on the road, the less the governmetn has to pay in infrastructure repair, expansion, etc.

and therein lies the difference between the UK and the US

UK wants you to ride a train and be corraled like cattle
US wants you to drive a car and to be free”

Sums it up prtty succinctly. Thanks Sam.

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thug
you are the silly one………. atlanta is not a tourist attraction
aquariums, amusement parks, sporting events and parks are in all areas of the us
no one comes to atlanta for those as their vacation

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“that’s what we’re talking about, numpties … INVESTMENT …”

INVESTMENT- I wondered when we would get around to the liberal code word for waste and boondoggle.

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Irrational

Not a crazy idea

Except for the fact that all the heavy rail trains would have to go slow

Or the Light rail passengers would have to accept being run over every 8 minutes

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Jm – That’s where the inventing part comes in. We have one of the best engineering schools in the world right in Midtown. Seems like we could get some of them to work on it.

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“atlanta is not a TOURIST ATTRACTION”

And maybe, just maybe, that’s because it’s so hard to GET AROUND IN IT.

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“Grasshopper – Yeah, it is horrible that the government forced all of y’all to move out into the suburbs, so far away from all the good things in life.”

Considering I have lived intown for 25+ years and work downtown, my commute by my beautiful, gas-guzzling SUV is 15-20 minutes. If I took lovely Marta, we’re talking an hour +. No thanks. And sorry that we may be rubbing shoulders.

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UNCLE SAMANTHA

May 2nd, 2012
1:01 pm
YES
when thinking of TOP TOURIST destinations in the US
MOST AMERICANS choose ATLANTA,following in the distant NYC WASH DC LA…

Wow, just imagine if you could start in Atlanta, and take a 2 hour bullet train to get to the pristine white sand of the panhandle, or an hour train to Savannah or Charleston. Atlanta would quickly move up that list.

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Grasshopper – I’ve barely been alive for that long, old fart. Since moving into Buckhead, my commute is somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 minutes door to door. Less in the summer when I don’t get slowed down by school traffic. It is the greatest thing I’ve experienced since moving to the Metro.

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Jay

Expect as much from those good ole boys as you did when many of those same individuals were Democrats

Changing the D to an R surely didn’t do anything for their ethics, integrity and character

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I see that the ugatard Frank Burns is up from his nap.

A great time for me to head out and do the working class hero thing again…

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(ir)Rational

I became a ‘Quakes fan back in 2003, before packed up and moved to Houston and became the Dynamos. I would schedule a trip to San Jose in mid August because there is also (at that time, free) a Jazz Fest so I could catch a weekend of Jazz and see my favorite MLS team at home.

I can imagine that there are many Atlanta Braves fans out there as well that don’t live in Atlanta and would like to visit the aquarium, maybe take in the Atlanta Jazz Fest Memorial Day weekend and catch a braves game or two.

Some people, however, seem to think that because other cities have similar attractions, that scenario is somehow implausible.

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Redneck – Are you saying that Atlanta is the only place with panhandlers, lazy construction workers and one way streets? Man, I am missing out!

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Thank you TD. The freedom to be able to cut one at your own discretion is usually not brought up in these discussions, but it should not be under-emphasized.

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Jm – You understand the concept of “innovation” right? I’m not saying it is a/the best solution, I’m just saying it is a possible solution. I’m not an engineer, but I bet there are more than a few that could come up with something that would work well.

Kam – Yeah, crazy how there has never been a reason to travel to Atlanta. I mean, I know I’ve never seen any people from out of town here, except those pesky college students. Like at New Year’s Eve last year, I didn’t see ANYBODY from Virginia or Alabama here to watch football.

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“Amtrak uses existing freight rail lines in most of the country. I don’t think it’s accurate to talk about Amtrak being “built,” because it pretty much existed already.”

Regardless amtrak has a well documented history of losing money and being a boondoggle does it not? And this in the heavily populous northeastern corridor.

I don’t know CCT’s transit and finances. I assume its run much better and more efficiently than fulton county. Big difference in local govt.I can’t imagine why? Is one run by Ds and the other by Rs?

“I didn’t bring up rail or advocate it, but thanks for leaping to conclusions, Doom. I can always count on you for that.”

I didn’t say that you did. I am merely making a statement about rail since many on here are also speaking of rail and since this article seems to advocate more rail.

“Despite the evidence of marta’s failure right in front of your very own eyes you continue to tout that it will work if we only build in other areas of atl as well.”- Thulsa Doom

“Didn’t say that at all. Once again, you’re putting words in my mouth.”

Well you are advocating more public transit which unless I’m mistaken also includes marta. Does it not?

“Bizarre.”

“I’m in support of increased transit, yes. But I’m not *married* to the idea of it having to be heavy, MARTA-style rail everywhere, or even at all. I think you erroneously jumped to the conclusion that that’s what I’ve been saying.”

Keep in mind Joe that I’m speaking not just to you but to the liberal viewpoint in general that increased rail transit is the answer to a lot of this. So without putting words in your mouth are you saying that you did not or do not advocate for any new rail here in ATL?

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Godless Heathen,

Ya’ll nasty! Still funny though.

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UNCLE SAMANTHA

May 2nd, 2012
11:53 am

DONT FORGET

thanks for the education…………..next you are going to tell me that OXYGEN can kill you……. let me check…………..

what!!!!!!!!!! omg

oxygen can kill you………… we need to regulate that as well
—————————————————————————————-
What a total smartazz. Clearly your opinions are worthless.

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Mallory — “Wow, just imagine if you could start in Atlanta, and take a 2 hour bullet train to get to the pristine white sand of the panhandle, or an hour train to Savannah or Charleston. Atlanta would quickly move up that list.”

It’d take you something like 2 DAYS to do that by train now. The only passenger rail line through Atlanta (Amtrak) goes southbound to New Orleans and northbound to DC and NYC. I *think* you could change trains and come back south before getting to DC, but I could be mistaken on that. However, I’m almost certain that going southbound, you’d have to go all the way to New Orleans in order to change trains and catch one to Florida.

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Kam – If y’all beat Bayern it doesn’t matter if you’re in 4th or not, and we just have to stay in 3rd.

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every kid dreams of going to the aquarium, six flags, sporting events and parks

ridiculousness

Very few aquariums IN THE WORLD have whale sharks swimming around. The only one in the entire Western Hemisphere is located in Atlanta, GA.

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Bro – You seemed to have misplaced an “s” in your name.

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(ir)Rational

I’m so bad, I scared the “s” out of my name.

—————————-

Normal

I’ve always wanted to do the swim in the tank thing, but I don’t think they allow spear fishing in there.

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Bro – Wow. To both of those, just wow.

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Doom — “Regardless amtrak has a well documented history of losing money and being a boondoggle does it not?”

Yes and no. Yes, it loses money. No, I don’t think it’s a boondoggle. On a per-mile basis, commercial aviation costs as much in tax receipts as passenger rail does in the US.

“And this in the heavily populous northeastern corridor.”

IIRC, the NE corridor is the *most* profitable one for Amtrak, though I haven’t looked at their financials lately. I seem to recall that the long, thin routes out West are the big money-losers. Most stations in western states only open for a couple of hours each day — just to service the train when it passes through. Surprisingly, the Birmingham, AL station is the same way; it’s only open for about six hours each day, to catch the one train that passes through in each direction each day.

“I don’t know CCT’s transit and finances. I assume its run much better and more efficiently than fulton county. Big difference in local govt.I can’t imagine why? Is one run by Ds and the other by Rs?”

Cobb’s finances have always been well-run from what I understand. No idea if politics has anything to do with that.

“Well you are advocating more public transit which unless I’m mistaken also includes marta. Does it not?”

Not necessarily. As I said, I’m in support of increased public transit, but I’m not married to the idea of it being heavy, MARTA-style rail. There’s also bus, bus fixed guideway, light rail, light bus (van-sized buses for thin routes to transfer stations) and lots of other options.

“Keep in mind Joe that I’m speaking not just to you but to the liberal viewpoint in general that increased rail transit is the answer to a lot of this. So without putting words in your mouth are you saying that you did not or do not advocate for any new rail here in ATL?”

I’m for more public mass transit. If it happens to be rail, great. If it happens to be something other than rail, great. I’ll be pleased either way. It’s like a hungry man who just wants a meal; he’s probably going to be happy whether you give him a big uglyburger with cheese or a plate of bacon and eggs. Either way, he’s going to eat.

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“You are a Madison Avenue fat cat’s wet dream…”

Thanks. I’m a wet dream on a lot of avenues.

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Bro’, (ir)
When my father was stationed in Germany, we used to go to this eatery that had a sluice with live rainbow trout in it. As you walked to the place, you picked your dinner…now that was fresh!

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oe Mama,

Well allrighty then. Not much to disagree with you about. I’m in favor of public transportation but only if it can be done the Doomy way- kinda like six flags. Instead of big expensive rails we would have either fast moving sky buckets all over creation like at six flags or sky lifts for those of us who like being out in the elements. The dang things would move fast as hell and be a combo of fast transportation combined with a constant carnival ride effect. I would be in hog heaven if we could have transportation like that. Not sure as to how cost effective it would be but it would damn sure be fun.

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Off to the local restaurant/watering hole that has FSC.

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Normal

They don’t get much more fresh than that!

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GREAT TOURIST ATTRACTIONS

vegas strip
statue of liberty
smithsonian
the guggenheim
napa valley
disneyworld
georgia aquarium

yes liberals have succumbed to trying to convince themselves atlanta needs more trains because americans are wetting themselves to come see our aquarium

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tourists have been yearning for years and staying away from atlanta because they have been waiting for atlanta to finally build the trains and they will come

hey geniuses

if tourists came to atlanta, wouldnt they stay downtown to be near all the action
or would they stay at a motel 6 in cumming so they could get up early and RIDE THAT TRAIN downtown

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also they include conventions in your numbers
so inflate your numbers because
those people didn’t choose atl to see the sites

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well except for THE CHEETAH

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theyboth suck

go reread the liberal posts that tried to justify building trains in the metro atlanta because the tourism would be tremendous

and once again you inflate numbers with CONVENTIONS
that is not tourism

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Oh hi, sorry I’m late. Anyone blame Obama yet?

Better yet, how many cons read that and thought something akin to “I’ll show you, I’ll type out a dissertation on how Obama blames Bush. HA! TWO WRONGS MAKE A RIGHT!”

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“TWO WRONGS MAKE A RIGHT!”

Actually three lefts make a right…

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“have you seen……….”

excuse me

But the answer is no………… So put away your paint brushed and paint sprayer and take it somewhere else……..

What I say is fair game…….. what others say isn’t fair game for you to attribute it to me unless that is the best you can do…… which is getting to be pretty obvious based on some of your posts

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I’m out for awhile

peace

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People are so confused. The answer is really transportation so much as it is location. You see, transportation is like a network and people in Atlanta mostly move around in cars which travel on roads ( I know – duh). The problem that most people in Atlanta see is the capacity of the network (roads) to not be able able to handle traffic, specifically peak hour traffic. They see backed up roads and slow moving cars and long commute times. They think the answer is to increase the carrying capacity of the network and so they do. And it works, for a little bit. But you see, the problem isn’t the carrying capacity of the network, it is how the network is used.
The average commute in Atlanta is 35 miles according to the clean air campaign. Since that is round trip data, the average commuter drives 17.5 miles to work. That means the average person lives 17.5 miles from work. And that number has been increasing. Every decade the average commute distance increases. So imagine if from a starting point you have an average 8 mile commute amon gthe population and there is trafiic. So, you double the raod capacity. Traffic flow better. For a while. But then a curious thing happens. People move. And pretty soon people’s daily commute doubles to 16 miles. Then you have the same amount of traffic. Except people are driving further, driving for longer, spending more on transportation, spending less qaulity time working or relaxing, and poluuting the air more.
The real thing that people should look at, is why people move from a central location. Why is the city of Atlanta’s population, even with the significant growth of the past 10 years, less than the population of the city of Atlanta in 1970. It’s very simple, if people keep moving further and further apart and commuting longer and longer distances we will constantly need to keep building roads and degrading quality of life just trying to maintain a barely functional and highly congested road transportation system.
If you really want to fix road traffic in Metro Atlanta, ask why barely 10% of the metro area chooses to live in the city of Atlanta or another central location. Then find out how we can change that so they want to move to a central location in Atlanta. And it really isn’t all about costs. There are large swaths of Atlanta where nice large houses built within the past 10 years can be purchased for less than $100k or even $50k.
If you want to solve congestion in Atlanta you must make Atlanta a nice place to live, and not just for single yuppies, but for middle class families too.

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Adam

May 2nd, 2012
2:52 pm
Oh hi, sorry I’m late. Anyone blame Obama yet?

Adam,

Actually I haven’t seen O blamed one time today or even mentioned. But don’t fret. I’m sure he’ll say or do something stupid to warrant some well deserved criticism. He always does. BTW its W’s fault right?

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Welcome Home

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-Q6YX6ikZY&feature=fvsr

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Thulsa & Adam – Post #8 laid the blame directly at his feet. I’m not sure how anyone could actually correlate the fact that he is a less than adequate president with a local/regional issue in Atlanta, but hey, you could give them points for trying?

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thulsa doom

the pendulum will come back soon
once ss, medicare and interest on the debt approach 100% of all revenues, the country will be looking for leadership

hope you will RISE UP
like a falcon when the time comes

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I live off of Jimmy Carter Blvd near Rockbridge road. What exactly will this tsplost do for me and south gwinnett county? I am voting no.

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you too they both suck
we need you as well

my tourist thing was about earlier in the day about traffic and mass transit
not what you are talking about

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“Not much in the news regarding him save for I guess his fabrication of some things in his autobiography.”

That’s a new one. What did he allegedly fabricate or is it proven that he did fabricate something.

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They BOTH

I don’t know who else mentioned tourism other than me, but Uncle Samantha may be referring to my post at 9:13 where I said:

“I can’t understand why a person visiting Atlanta can not get to every single tourist destination here without having to rent a vehicle or take a taxi. That’s what transit is supposed to do.”

If that is, indeed what US was referring to, then he’s basically conned you into a strawman argument. If you search for the word “tourist” in this thread, he/she’s the first person to mention tourists in relation to trains. There was no “liberal” who said that, other than that liberal in his/her brain that he/she argues with all the time.

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irRational,

Say what you will but it was Newt who pushed Clinton into a balanced budget. Whatever his character failings Newt did a good job from that aspect alone. I would take Charles Manson as speaker if I knew for a fact the man would get the budget balanced in a reasonable time frame. There is no more pressing issue facing this nation.

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Thulsa – I was just playing off what you said, instead of saying “Clinton and Gingrich” you said “Newt and Gingrich.”

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getalife – Before I sound like a total a-hole, you were talking about the Saints players being suspended, right?

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I would take Charles Manson as speaker if I knew for a fact the man would get the budget balanced in a reasonable time frame. There is no more pressing issue facing this nation.

Big difference between then and now, the GOP agreed to raising taxes, even if they did it with major reservations. That’s not likely with the current GOP office holders.

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The newt is out.

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Newton LEEROOOOOOOOOOY GINGRIIIIIIIICH has dropped out, to give speech on how stupid we all were to not understand his big ideas

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I just LOVE to be the one to cancel out your YES vote. I ALWAYS VOTE NO for ANY tax increase, PERIOD!

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Adam – Unless you’re hooked up with ACORN, your vote doesn’t count on this.

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Atlanta as a tourist destination? Thass jus’ TOO funny…I love the place I have lived longer than any other in my life, but with rare exceptions, it’s what my Granny called “that overgrown crossroads trading village.” The few things it could offer, it’s ashamed of or has no earthly idea how to promote.

And make it easier via transportation for this giant head atop a state body still wallowing in near third world conditions of poverty, unemployment, malaise and slowly dying to continue its malignant growth patterns.

There is such a thing as too much of a good thing, and Atlanta passed that when the Darlington sign hit 4,000,000, imuo.

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(ir)Rational: Well my vote is just as good as the guy who likes to BEND OVER and take it in the —

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The newt shut down government.

Boom.

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The only good thing Newt ever did was pack his carpetbag and leave Georgia.

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Newt’s 2 biggest fans in no particular order- Jay and josef.

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Adam – Yeah, I honestly don’t remember much about the days when people actually compromised in government. I didn’t really pay attention until the 2000 election. And that was more out of morbid curiosity than anything. Your vote might count just as much as that guy in Mississipoli (or wherever it is you reside) but it don’t count for a pile of warm steaming dog poop here.

josef – The whole tourism argument is so convoluted and messed up that I’m not sure where/how it started. I’m thinking, like Bro said, that Uncle Samantha just started putting words into others mouths and then arguing with them about it.

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President Obama listens to President Clinton.

Let the adults work.

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I doubt they will call w or the newt for advice,

Boom.

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Adam – Bill wasn’t the murderer, that was Hilary. She TOTALLY set that up. There is no way you can commit suicide that cleanly.

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ADAM

Now, hold on a minute. I kinda like Clinton myself, but “corner him into a lie?” That was free will on his part. Scumb*ggery. A decent man doesn’t deny his piece on the side.

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I did see pictures on the TeeVee this AM that showed The President signing something for Afghan “Prez” Karzai. I didn’t catch if it was an autograph or a check.

Oh wait, here it is: An agreement to remain in Afghan land until 2024. Malia and Sasha will both have the chance to serve there.

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The world loves the Clintons,

It was a vast rw conspiracy.

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no.

D’oh.

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“What you fail to get is that doesn’t hold water, because they never had “complete control” as you and your ILK often suggest. They didn’t even have a caucus of 60 until mid 2009, two of which were independents, and 2-5 of which were blue dogs, and then it dropped back to 59 not long after that.”

Well now that’s just really easy youngster. A Louisiana purchase here and there along with a Cornhusker kickback and they have the 60 they need to run over the Rs like they did with Obamacare. Or did your little noggin forgit all that? Cause Doomy shore didn’t.

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get a life
the bushes love clinton
nearly as much as clinton loves the bushes.

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Adam

And sc*zzbuket obliged them. You say, “most men would lie in his place.” And I said a “decent man.”
He’s a liar and disrespected “that woman.” There’s no excusing that kind of behavior. And coming from that part of the country he comes from, there is a code of ethics and chivalry involved, He just acted plumb tacky and trashy with no class at all.

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frog,

The President’s club is pretty tight.

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The Department of Education should be abolished forthwith and its bureaucrats haled before a court of inquiry on charges of crimes against humanity…but, hell, we just got through with CRCT!

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Everyone keeps referring to “other industrialized countries” like they are the standard. Someone please tell me what makes their system so special. A “national” plan is nothing if it takes control away the people actually implement the plan. For all our faults, We are the economic powerhouse. Their kids strive to come to our colleges. We are the military power. I see no reason to want to emulate a failing European model.

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“Atlanta as a tourist destination?”

Come on josef………. People come from miles and miles away to attend Pride…………..

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“and there were constant House probes into Clinton as a potential murderer.”

You got a link on all of these “constant” probes of Clinton as a murderer.

“that the GOP was nuts to go after him and corner him into a lie just to impeach.”

Adam, I’ve no doubt that part of it was political. But I believe it also has a lot more to do with the fact that you can’t have the chief executive officer lying in a court of law. Its that simple. I find that bothersome. He should have just come clean about the affair. Nobody gives a damn about him getting pleasured by miss lewinsky and the American people are very forgiving. Even a con like me woulda looked at it and said this is just stupid. But lying in a court deposition is a more serious matter. Nixon will tell ya that.

For what its worth though Clinton should have his arse kicked for not having a better choice of women. Come on. That fat little Lewinsky girl? JFK had Marilyn Monroe. Clinton couldn’t do better than Monica? Its embarrassing. He coulda done far better than that. And just about any lib has to agree on that. Sheesh.

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“And coming from that part of the country he comes from”

now, now

Many a southerner from any state you mention would have lied…… For that matter many a man from all over the world

Not sure if the state or region has anything to do with his “lies” about “that woman”………..

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Joe Mama,

It gets worse. I’m going to start giving you false tertiarys as oppposed to just binarys.

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“Clinton couldn’t do better than Monica?”

Flowers had a MILFy and naughty look to her

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Irational,

You had con cred?

Give me 100 hail Rush LimpBalls and maybe I’ll grant you some a that thar con cred.

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getalife, 4:02,

“The war on terror ends in 14″…… that’s almost as funny as “Mission Accomplished”. Does that mean that we can stop all those pesky TSA inspections at the airport or stop flying those F-16s up and down the coast or abolish the Dept of Homeland Security? Unfortunately, probably not. But with Bozo’s vision of nirvana in the Islamic world you would think that we can all invite those poor innocent and peace loving Muslims to the local Baptist and ask them to bring their prayer rugs. Your man’s vision of Islam is so naive that even though he attended Muslim schools in Indonesia, he obviously didn’t learn much. It ain’t over, my naive friend,…. not by a long shot.

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Thulsa – If that’s what I have to do, I’ll pass, thanks though. However, if you would like to discuss Vince Foster and how Hilary had him knocked off, then I could be here for hours.

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