With all its flaws, regional T-SPLOST still needed
The Georgia chapter of the Sierra Club released its assessment of the proposed regional transportation sales tax this week. It was harsh, damning and unfortunately all too accurate.
In brief, the report explains:
– The $7.2 billion metro Atlanta project list is weighted too heavily to highway construction, with too little investment in transit. Furthermore, the state has provided no mechanism for maintaining and operating transit assets once the 10-year special sales tax expires.
– State leaders have refused to give the metro region control of its transit future, yet still balk at providing that leadership themselves. Without a governing mechanism, a regional system is a pipedream. And commuter rail, one of the most promising options available to both ease congestion and reorient development patterns, is ignored in the plan.
– MARTA is treated with disdain and contempt, when it should be embraced as the core of a regional transit system. As the report notes, “MARTA is the sole target of an egregious provision that forbids any T-SPLOST revenues from being spent on MARTA’s operations, the agency’s most pressing financial need. No other transportation provider is singled out in such a manner.”
Most of the indictment is correct; I agree with it. And yet, when the time comes in July, I plan to vote in favor of the proposal anyway. Why?
Well, because politics is the art of the possible.
The harsh truth is that it is impossible to correct a lot of the problems identified by the Sierra Club, at least in an acceptable time frame. They are part of a larger, more fundamental debate that has still to be won. Consider the funding imbalance between transit and highways. Even if voters reject the T-SPLOST in July, and even if some other transportation-funding mechanism is created to replace it, the notion that transit would be given greater prominence in a new plan is fantasy.
While public attitudes toward transit are changing in the metro region, we’re probably still a decade away from a political climate in which transit can be funded at the levels that the Sierra Club would find acceptable.
I don’t think we can wait those 10 years. It’s time to take what we can now, and build upon it.
It’s also important to think through what’s possible and not possible should voters reject the July ballot question. In its analysis, the Sierra Club argues that “lower-than-expected support for the T-SPLOST in Fulton and DeKalb — where proponents are counting on their strongest support — would send a message to state and regional leaders that continued political gamesmanship on MARTA and related issues will not be tolerated.”
That’s one potential outcome of a July defeat, but it assumes a level of analysis by state leaders that history says is unlikely. In addition, I just don’t think that those with the power to make such decisions under the Gold Dome are all that concerned about what pro-MARTA voters in Fulton and DeKalb will or will not tolerate.
More likely, state legislators will draw the conclusion that is easiest on themselves. They’ll note that voters rejected a tax increase for transportation and rejected investment in regional transit, and they’ll use that as an excuse for several more years of dithering.
Again, I don’t think we can wait.
So what is possible? Well, some of the problems identified in the club’s analysis can still be addressed and resolved. Gov. Nathan Deal and House Speaker David Ralston understand that some form of regional transit governance will be essential if the sales tax is approved, even if they don’t yet know how to build enough political support to create it. The system is unworkable without it; necessity will force its creation.
Admittedly, things shouldn’t be so difficult. The evidence is overwhelming that metro Atlanta’s transportation infrastructure, its governance and the vision behind it have become outdated. But changing that course will require changing minds and ideas, and that’s going to be a slow, lurching process.
In the meantime, an opportunity for progress should be embraced rather than rejected.
– Jay Bookman
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648 comments Add your comment
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
2:40 pm
tourists have been yearning for years and staying away from atlanta because they have been waiting for atlanta to finally build the trains and they will come
hey geniuses
if tourists came to atlanta, wouldnt they stay downtown to be near all the action
or would they stay at a motel 6 in cumming so they could get up early and RIDE THAT TRAIN downtown
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
2:41 pm
theybothsuck
so building more trains will make us #1
you are ignorant
the premise of the arguement that we must build trains is riduculous
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
2:44 pm
also they include conventions in your numbers
so inflate your numbers because
those people didn’t choose atl to see the sites
They BOTH suck
May 2nd, 2012
2:45 pm
Unlce Sam
Come again………….. Yep……… no impact in Atlanta with tourism……….. none at all
Tourism in Atlanta
• Accounts for 51% of Georgia’s tourism
economy
• 35+ million visit Atlanta annually
• More than $11 billion is generated in
visitor spending; $29 million per day
(direct spending)
• In Atlanta, “Leisure & Hospitality”
employs 9.3% of the metro workers
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
2:45 pm
well except for THE CHEETAH
They BOTH suck
May 2nd, 2012
2:47 pm
Uncle Sam
Please repost where I said anything about trains………
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
2:50 pm
theyboth suck
go reread the liberal posts that tried to justify building trains in the metro atlanta because the tourism would be tremendous
and once again you inflate numbers with CONVENTIONS
that is not tourism
Towncrier
May 2nd, 2012
2:51 pm
Why are so many votes a choice between the lesser of two evils?
Adam
May 2nd, 2012
2:52 pm
Oh hi, sorry I’m late. Anyone blame Obama yet?
Better yet, how many cons read that and thought something akin to “I’ll show you, I’ll type out a dissertation on how Obama blames Bush. HA! TWO WRONGS MAKE A RIGHT!”
They BOTH suck
May 2nd, 2012
2:52 pm
Sam
I do not speak for anyone else………. Have you seem me use some BS generalization or anything for that matter from a right leaning blogger and attribute that t you?
Speaking about “ignorant” in one of your previous post……..
Just look in the mirror sometimes……. It could very well be an “eye opener” for you
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
May 2nd, 2012
2:53 pm
“TWO WRONGS MAKE A RIGHT!”
Actually three lefts make a right…
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
2:54 pm
but dont get me wrong
theybothsuck
we agree
they both suck
They BOTH suck
May 2nd, 2012
2:55 pm
“have you seen……….”
excuse me
But the answer is no………… So put away your paint brushed and paint sprayer and take it somewhere else……..
What I say is fair game…….. what others say isn’t fair game for you to attribute it to me unless that is the best you can do…… which is getting to be pretty obvious based on some of your posts
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
2:55 pm
They BOTH suck,
Conventions do inflate that number. Then again conventions are part tourist destination by design. I think you and uncle samantha are both right.
Uncle is right in that when you think of a major national destination for vacation you don’t think of ATL. You think of the beach, disneyworld, vegas, New york, DC because of all the museums and monuments. etc.
On the other hand though Atlanta certainly is a regional and semi tourist destination for people from neighboring states but mostly for day trips or very mini 1-3 day trips. Growing up in Bama there were constant chartered bus trips to either six flags or braves games for kids, stone mountain, church groups, etc.
People do come for a day or two to go to the world of coke and cnn as lame as they are, a braves or falcons game, the aquarium, nascar, six flags, etc. Hell my best friend in Bham his wife and a girlfriend came here for the weekend last week just to go shopping and kinda just hang out for the weekend.
So I think you’re all right. Like Uncle samantah Atlanta just doesn’t pop into my mind when I think vacation but we still get a lot of regional visitors to see a lot of things around here that other regional states and cities don’t have.
They BOTH suck
May 2nd, 2012
2:55 pm
I’m out for awhile
peace
hryder
May 2nd, 2012
2:55 pm
My families experiences indicate that Marta can only become of use as invisioned when less than acceptable behavior by all users is eliminated. This includes muggings, eating, drinking, boistressness, etc.. Otherwise, thugs and people who, basically through no fault of their own, have no idea what the vast majority of the population believes is normal behavior in public venues. VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENT OFFICE HOLDERS IN THE NOVEMBER ELECTIONS!
Joe
May 2nd, 2012
2:57 pm
People are so confused. The answer is really transportation so much as it is location. You see, transportation is like a network and people in Atlanta mostly move around in cars which travel on roads ( I know – duh). The problem that most people in Atlanta see is the capacity of the network (roads) to not be able able to handle traffic, specifically peak hour traffic. They see backed up roads and slow moving cars and long commute times. They think the answer is to increase the carrying capacity of the network and so they do. And it works, for a little bit. But you see, the problem isn’t the carrying capacity of the network, it is how the network is used.
The average commute in Atlanta is 35 miles according to the clean air campaign. Since that is round trip data, the average commuter drives 17.5 miles to work. That means the average person lives 17.5 miles from work. And that number has been increasing. Every decade the average commute distance increases. So imagine if from a starting point you have an average 8 mile commute amon gthe population and there is trafiic. So, you double the raod capacity. Traffic flow better. For a while. But then a curious thing happens. People move. And pretty soon people’s daily commute doubles to 16 miles. Then you have the same amount of traffic. Except people are driving further, driving for longer, spending more on transportation, spending less qaulity time working or relaxing, and poluuting the air more.
The real thing that people should look at, is why people move from a central location. Why is the city of Atlanta’s population, even with the significant growth of the past 10 years, less than the population of the city of Atlanta in 1970. It’s very simple, if people keep moving further and further apart and commuting longer and longer distances we will constantly need to keep building roads and degrading quality of life just trying to maintain a barely functional and highly congested road transportation system.
If you really want to fix road traffic in Metro Atlanta, ask why barely 10% of the metro area chooses to live in the city of Atlanta or another central location. Then find out how we can change that so they want to move to a central location in Atlanta. And it really isn’t all about costs. There are large swaths of Atlanta where nice large houses built within the past 10 years can be purchased for less than $100k or even $50k.
If you want to solve congestion in Atlanta you must make Atlanta a nice place to live, and not just for single yuppies, but for middle class families too.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
2:57 pm
thanks Thulsa
valid points
you should be in Congress
over 20 years ago when they actually worked for common ground that is
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
3:00 pm
Adam
May 2nd, 2012
2:52 pm
Oh hi, sorry I’m late. Anyone blame Obama yet?
Adam,
Actually I haven’t seen O blamed one time today or even mentioned. But don’t fret. I’m sure he’ll say or do something stupid to warrant some well deserved criticism. He always does. BTW its W’s fault right?
They BOTH suck
May 2nd, 2012
3:01 pm
TD
Agree to an extent in terms of “top tier” vacation spot….
With that said conventions inflate the numbers for Orlando, NYC, LA, San Fran, New Orleans, etc, etc…………
Newt Suspends Campaign Today
May 2nd, 2012
3:04 pm
Welcome Home
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-Q6YX6ikZY&feature=fvsr
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
3:07 pm
Uncle Samantha,
Doomy in Congress? Surely you jest. You’ll get a helluva lot of disagreement about that from the kook left on here. But it was nice 15-30 years ago when Newt and Gingrich could balance the budget together or when Reagan and Tip Oneill could agree on something. Not anymore
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
3:07 pm
Thulsa & Adam – Post #8 laid the blame directly at his feet. I’m not sure how anyone could actually correlate the fact that he is a less than adequate president with a local/regional issue in Atlanta, but hey, you could give them points for trying?
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
3:09 pm
Thulsa – So Newt is a psychitzo? That explains SO MUCH.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
3:10 pm
thulsa doom
the pendulum will come back soon
once ss, medicare and interest on the debt approach 100% of all revenues, the country will be looking for leadership
hope you will RISE UP
like a falcon when the time comes
Towncrier
May 2nd, 2012
3:10 pm
“Actually I haven’t seen O blamed one time today or even mentioned.”
Not much in the news regarding him save for I guess his fabrication of some things in his autobiography.
Chris Groskopf
May 2nd, 2012
3:12 pm
I live off of Jimmy Carter Blvd near Rockbridge road. What exactly will this tsplost do for me and south gwinnett county? I am voting no.
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
3:12 pm
They both suck,
Yeah. I agree. I just don’t think of ATL as being somewhere you come to stay for a week like the other destinations uncle mentioned . More like a 1-3 day visit especially if you are from a bordering state in which case you could make 3-4 trips a year as I know a lot of people from Montgomery do. They may come a day or 2 for nascar, a day or 2 for six flags and the water park, a day for a sporting event, a weekend for stone mountain, a day or 2 for the aquarium and one other attraction. You could literally take a week and do all kinds of stuff and fill up the week easily. I just don’t know anyone who does it that way when visiting ATL.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
3:12 pm
you too they both suck
we need you as well
my tourist thing was about earlier in the day about traffic and mass transit
not what you are talking about
eryhj
May 2nd, 2012
3:14 pm
Ennis
May 2nd, 2012
8:32 am
FYI – the “N” people have moved to the burbs and are using their county system if they want to go to atlanta. They don’t like marta either
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
3:14 pm
“Not much in the news regarding him save for I guess his fabrication of some things in his autobiography.”
That’s a new one. What did he allegedly fabricate or is it proven that he did fabricate something.
Towncrier
May 2nd, 2012
3:15 pm
“That’s a new one. What did he allegedly fabricate or is it proven that he did fabricate something.”
Go to Drudge (I guess the bane of the Obama administration).
Brosephus™
May 2nd, 2012
3:16 pm
They BOTH
I don’t know who else mentioned tourism other than me, but Uncle Samantha may be referring to my post at 9:13 where I said:
“I can’t understand why a person visiting Atlanta can not get to every single tourist destination here without having to rent a vehicle or take a taxi. That’s what transit is supposed to do.”
If that is, indeed what US was referring to, then he’s basically conned you into a strawman argument. If you search for the word “tourist” in this thread, he/she’s the first person to mention tourists in relation to trains. There was no “liberal” who said that, other than that liberal in his/her brain that he/she argues with all the time.
getalife
May 2nd, 2012
3:16 pm
Sad NFL news today.
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
3:19 pm
irRational,
Say what you will but it was Newt who pushed Clinton into a balanced budget. Whatever his character failings Newt did a good job from that aspect alone. I would take Charles Manson as speaker if I knew for a fact the man would get the budget balanced in a reasonable time frame. There is no more pressing issue facing this nation.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
3:19 pm
getalife – Or deserved?
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
3:20 pm
Thulsa – I was just playing off what you said, instead of saying “Clinton and Gingrich” you said “Newt and Gingrich.”
Jefferson
May 2nd, 2012
3:21 pm
Newt had little to do with anything when he was there. Myth is what you base your opinions on.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
3:22 pm
getalife – Before I sound like a total a-hole, you were talking about the Saints players being suspended, right?
getalife
May 2nd, 2012
3:22 pm
ir,
That and Junior Seau is gone.
Brosephus™
May 2nd, 2012
3:23 pm
I would take Charles Manson as speaker if I knew for a fact the man would get the budget balanced in a reasonable time frame. There is no more pressing issue facing this nation.
Big difference between then and now, the GOP agreed to raising taxes, even if they did it with major reservations. That’s not likely with the current GOP office holders.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
3:26 pm
getalife – Yeah, pretty much as soon as I posted that, I saw that about him dying. I was referring to the Saints. Couldn’t have happened to a nicer team.
getalife
May 2nd, 2012
3:26 pm
The newt is out.
Adam
May 2nd, 2012
3:27 pm
BTW its W’s fault right? – Predictable. So predictable.
go to Drudge – seriously?
Adam
May 2nd, 2012
3:28 pm
Newton LEEROOOOOOOOOOY GINGRIIIIIIIICH has dropped out, to give speech on how stupid we all were to not understand his big ideas
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
3:28 pm
Bro and Thulsa – That goes back to a point I was making a couple of days ago. It seems to work better when one side has the executive and the other side has the legislative. Given that everything is so polarized now, the last time that actually worked well could have been sometime around December of 2000, but it did seem to work better back in the day.
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
May 2nd, 2012
3:29 pm
I just LOVE to be the one to cancel out your YES vote. I ALWAYS VOTE NO for ANY tax increase, PERIOD!
Adam
May 2nd, 2012
3:32 pm
And I will vote no for any tax DECREASE, period. Read my lips, No New Tax Cuts.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
3:33 pm
Adam – Unless you’re hooked up with ACORN, your vote doesn’t count on this.
Adam
May 2nd, 2012
3:35 pm
(ir)Rational: Given that everything is so polarized now, the last time that actually worked well could have been sometime around December of 2000, but it did seem to work better back in the day.
Once upon a time, the parties agreed on some basic stuff, like roads and education. They differed in small ways, like how much or how little the federal government should be involved. Now it’s “DESTROY DEPT of Ed” on one side and “Hey wait a minute, we need some education dollars for our states, teachers, and so on” on the other side.
It doesn’t help that the polarizing problem is that one side is so hard line as to be impenetrable,, yet maintains an approximate 50% power hold, while the other side either caves, doesn’t get their message across, or agrees with the extreme people by not fighting.
josef
May 2nd, 2012
3:35 pm
Atlanta as a tourist destination? Thass jus’ TOO funny…I love the place I have lived longer than any other in my life, but with rare exceptions, it’s what my Granny called “that overgrown crossroads trading village.” The few things it could offer, it’s ashamed of or has no earthly idea how to promote.
And make it easier via transportation for this giant head atop a state body still wallowing in near third world conditions of poverty, unemployment, malaise and slowly dying to continue its malignant growth patterns.
There is such a thing as too much of a good thing, and Atlanta passed that when the Darlington sign hit 4,000,000, imuo.
getalife
May 2nd, 2012
3:36 pm
“I ALWAYS VOTE NO for ANY tax increase, PERIOD!”
We know grover.
Not serious about cutting the deficit.
Adam
May 2nd, 2012
3:37 pm
(ir)Rational: Well my vote is just as good as the guy who likes to BEND OVER and take it in the —
Joe Hussein Mama
May 2nd, 2012
3:37 pm
Doom — “Say what you will but it was Newt who pushed Clinton into a balanced budget.”
Right. And Newt pushed Romney into becoming the heir apparent for the GOP nomination.
getalife
May 2nd, 2012
3:38 pm
The newt shut down government.
Boom.
Adam
May 2nd, 2012
3:40 pm
Saying that Newt pushed Clinton into a balanced budget ignores the idea of compromise altogether and attempts to portray the GOP as a winner in that whole debate. I can only assume that is because after years of making it seem as though the President is all powerful, the GOP supporters don’t like it when anyone attributes the balanced budget to Clinton.
josef
May 2nd, 2012
3:40 pm
The only good thing Newt ever did was pack his carpetbag and leave Georgia.
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
3:42 pm
Brocephus,
If raising taxes were such a big issue they could have done so back when the Ds held both houses of Congress and the potus. And in case you’ve forgotten Obamacare is a tax of up a couple hundred billion in andditional new taxes if I remember correctly in the next few years and 4 trillion by 2035 according to the joint committee on taxation.
http://www.newsmax.com/US/Obamacare-taxes-increase-health/2012/04/17/id/436199
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
3:43 pm
Newt’s 2 biggest fans in no particular order- Jay and josef.
Adam
May 2nd, 2012
3:43 pm
If raising taxes were such a big issue they could have done so back when the Ds held both houses of Congress and the potus
And then…
And in case you’ve forgotten Obamacare is a tax of up a couple hundred billion in andditional new taxes
Seeing as when Obamacare passed this was the ONE AND ONLY time that Democrats managed to get something passed with unanimous Republican opposition, I find your first sentence rather ironic.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
3:44 pm
Adam – Yeah, I honestly don’t remember much about the days when people actually compromised in government. I didn’t really pay attention until the 2000 election. And that was more out of morbid curiosity than anything. Your vote might count just as much as that guy in Mississipoli (or wherever it is you reside) but it don’t count for a pile of warm steaming dog poop here.
josef – The whole tourism argument is so convoluted and messed up that I’m not sure where/how it started. I’m thinking, like Bro said, that Uncle Samantha just started putting words into others mouths and then arguing with them about it.
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
3:45 pm
Joe Mama and Adam,
I gotcha . SO ya’ll think Clinton dragged Newt and the Rs into a balanced budget. Ya’ll funny.
getalife
May 2nd, 2012
3:46 pm
President Obama listens to President Clinton.
Let the adults work.
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
3:46 pm
Adam,
What’s ironic Adam? If they pushed through Obamacare then why couldn’t they have pushed through raising taxes if they really wanted to?
getalife
May 2nd, 2012
3:47 pm
I doubt they will call w or the newt for advice,
Boom.
Adam
May 2nd, 2012
3:47 pm
Thulsa: I think they compromised. Is that really hard to understand?
(ir)Rational: I can’t rely on memory myself for that period of time. But my understanding was they agreed on some stuff, and whatever they disagreed on was turned to vitriol circa 1994, and there were constant House probes into Clinton as a potential murderer. I remember the Lewinsky scandal though. Public opinion was, as it pretty much is now, that the GOP was nuts to go after him and corner him into a lie just to impeach.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
3:49 pm
Adam – Bill wasn’t the murderer, that was Hilary. She TOTALLY set that up. There is no way you can commit suicide that cleanly.
Adam
May 2nd, 2012
3:51 pm
Thulsa: If they pushed through Obamacare then why couldn’t they have pushed through raising taxes if they really wanted to?
Let’s try that with Mad Libs. Here’s the conservative argument:
If they pushed through Obamacare then why couldn’t they have pushed through ___________ if they really wanted to?
What you fail to get is that doesn’t hold water, because they never had “complete control” as you and your ILK often suggest. They didn’t even have a caucus of 60 until mid 2009, two of which were independents, and 2-5 of which were blue dogs, and then it dropped back to 59 not long after that. Every other bill that Obama signed into law had to pass with at least one Republican on board, usually more than that. As time went on, fewer Republicans were willing to vote for anything that had Democratic support, or even public support.
josef
May 2nd, 2012
3:51 pm
ADAM
Now, hold on a minute. I kinda like Clinton myself, but “corner him into a lie?” That was free will on his part. Scumb*ggery. A decent man doesn’t deny his piece on the side.
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
3:53 pm
“Now it’s “DESTROY DEPT of Ed” on one side and “Hey wait a minute, we need some education dollars for our states, teachers, and so on” on the other side”
Exactly what does theis dept. do Adam? for a cheap 40 billion a year I think it is they take money from the states and then parcel or block grant it back out to the states.Would anyone really miss them if they just disappeared or downscaled to 10 or 205 of the size they are now? My sis is a teacher. I asked her what the federal dept. of education does for her or the state? She just gave me a blank look. I would just assume largely say to heck with them and take the cost savings and give the teachers a raise with part of the savings and pay down the debt with the rest.
godless heathen
May 2nd, 2012
3:53 pm
I did see pictures on the TeeVee this AM that showed The President signing something for Afghan “Prez” Karzai. I didn’t catch if it was an autograph or a check.
Oh wait, here it is: An agreement to remain in Afghan land until 2024. Malia and Sasha will both have the chance to serve there.
Adam
May 2nd, 2012
3:54 pm
josef: I am running under the assumption that most men would lie in his place. And the GOP knew that he would, and cornered him into it. That is my opinion, of course. But I also happen to think that some lies don’t need to be prosecuted the way this one was. They already knew he was lying, and they just wanted to GET him to lie under oath.
getalife
May 2nd, 2012
3:54 pm
The world loves the Clintons,
It was a vast rw conspiracy.
getalife
May 2nd, 2012
3:56 pm
godless,
In 14, mo more war.
Peace and prosperity.
getalife
May 2nd, 2012
3:56 pm
no.
D’oh.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
3:57 pm
Adam – I would tend to agree with you on that one, and getalife to an extent. I’ve got to say something crazy now to restore my con-cred.
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
3:57 pm
“What you fail to get is that doesn’t hold water, because they never had “complete control” as you and your ILK often suggest. They didn’t even have a caucus of 60 until mid 2009, two of which were independents, and 2-5 of which were blue dogs, and then it dropped back to 59 not long after that.”
Well now that’s just really easy youngster. A Louisiana purchase here and there along with a Cornhusker kickback and they have the 60 they need to run over the Rs like they did with Obamacare. Or did your little noggin forgit all that? Cause Doomy shore didn’t.
Adam
May 2nd, 2012
3:57 pm
for a cheap 40 billion a year I think it is they take money from the states and then parcel or block grant it back out to the states.Would anyone really miss them if they just disappeared or downscaled to 10 or 205 of the size they are now?
This is a VAST oversimplification of what actually happens.
My sis is a teacher. I asked her what the federal dept. of education does for her or the state? She just gave me a blank look – what you are basically saying here is that both of you are ignorant on what the Department of Education is and does. How about some facts? You know, other than a single total number?
I am not going to come up with these facts for you because I think it would stick in your mind more if you looked for them on your own. My argument on the Department of Education is bottom line, they are important, we do need a single national education board of some kind so we can make sure our country has some actual educational standards, LIKE EVERY OTHER post-industrial country in the world.
barking frog
May 2nd, 2012
3:59 pm
get a life
the bushes love clinton
nearly as much as clinton loves the bushes.
Adam
May 2nd, 2012
3:59 pm
Doom: A Louisiana purchase here and there along with a Cornhusker kickback and they have the 60 they need to run over the Rs like they did with Obamacare. Or did your little noggin forgit all that? Cause Doomy shore didn’t.
So we’re working from different facts then? Why don’t you get back to me on whether the final bill, which was voted on by the “cornhusker,” actually contained a Cornhusker kickback.
josef
May 2nd, 2012
3:59 pm
Adam
And sc*zzbuket obliged them. You say, “most men would lie in his place.” And I said a “decent man.”
He’s a liar and disrespected “that woman.” There’s no excusing that kind of behavior. And coming from that part of the country he comes from, there is a code of ethics and chivalry involved, He just acted plumb tacky and trashy with no class at all.
godless heathen
May 2nd, 2012
4:00 pm
“In 14, mo more war.
Peace and prosperity.”
LOL! That’s a good one. We are talking about Afghanistan.
getalife
May 2nd, 2012
4:00 pm
frog,
The President’s club is pretty tight.
getalife
May 2nd, 2012
4:02 pm
godless,
The war on terror ends in 14 in Afghanistan
Did you not listen to our President?
josef
May 2nd, 2012
4:02 pm
The Department of Education should be abolished forthwith and its bureaucrats haled before a court of inquiry on charges of crimes against humanity…but, hell, we just got through with CRCT!
Adam
May 2nd, 2012
4:03 pm
josef: While I agree with the judgments you are making, I do not think that kind of thing should have been basis for impeachment. People lie all the time about affairs, and morally questionable (at best) behavior in politics. Some of them get to stay in office, even. The ones that don’t either resign or get voted out. To me, that seems like the natural process of this whole thing.
James Thomas
May 2nd, 2012
4:04 pm
Everyone keeps referring to “other industrialized countries” like they are the standard. Someone please tell me what makes their system so special. A “national” plan is nothing if it takes control away the people actually implement the plan. For all our faults, We are the economic powerhouse. Their kids strive to come to our colleges. We are the military power. I see no reason to want to emulate a failing European model.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 2nd, 2012
4:05 pm
Doom — “I gotcha . SO ya’ll think Clinton dragged Newt and the Rs into a balanced budget.”
There you go again with the second-guessing, Doomie. Didn’t say it, didn’t think it.
One day you’ll figure out that I rarely come down on either side of the ridiculous binary choices you like to put in front of me.
“Ya’ll funny.”
And yer funny-lookin’.
They BOTH suck
May 2nd, 2012
4:06 pm
“Atlanta as a tourist destination?”
Come on josef………. People come from miles and miles away to attend Pride…………..
getalife
May 2nd, 2012
4:07 pm
Atlanta is a drug hub.
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
4:07 pm
“and there were constant House probes into Clinton as a potential murderer.”
You got a link on all of these “constant” probes of Clinton as a murderer.
“that the GOP was nuts to go after him and corner him into a lie just to impeach.”
Adam, I’ve no doubt that part of it was political. But I believe it also has a lot more to do with the fact that you can’t have the chief executive officer lying in a court of law. Its that simple. I find that bothersome. He should have just come clean about the affair. Nobody gives a damn about him getting pleasured by miss lewinsky and the American people are very forgiving. Even a con like me woulda looked at it and said this is just stupid. But lying in a court deposition is a more serious matter. Nixon will tell ya that.
For what its worth though Clinton should have his arse kicked for not having a better choice of women. Come on. That fat little Lewinsky girl? JFK had Marilyn Monroe. Clinton couldn’t do better than Monica? Its embarrassing. He coulda done far better than that. And just about any lib has to agree on that. Sheesh.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
4:08 pm
Thulsa – Help me out, give me something crazy to talk about, I need to restore my ‘con-cred’ after agreeing with both Adam and getalife.
They BOTH suck
May 2nd, 2012
4:08 pm
“And coming from that part of the country he comes from”
now, now
Many a southerner from any state you mention would have lied…… For that matter many a man from all over the world
Not sure if the state or region has anything to do with his “lies” about “that woman”………..
josef
May 2nd, 2012
4:09 pm
ADAM
If we are going there, then my auo is that the matter should never have come to public discussion. Tastelessness, trashiness, and tackiness run amok and those morally posturing about it should have been put in stocks in the town square themselves. At 10 cents a throw, the farmers could have made a nice little profit unloading their surplus eggs and tomatoes past their sale date…
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
4:09 pm
Joe Mama,
It gets worse. I’m going to start giving you false tertiarys as oppposed to just binarys.
getalife
May 2nd, 2012
4:09 pm
ir,
Your words will determine if you are a con or not.
They all use the same talking point.
They BOTH suck
May 2nd, 2012
4:10 pm
“Clinton couldn’t do better than Monica?”
Flowers had a MILFy and naughty look to her
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
4:10 pm
Thulsa – “For what its worth though Clinton should have his arse kicked for not having a better choice of women. Come on. That fat little Lewinsky girl? JFK had Marilyn Monroe. Clinton couldn’t do better than Monica? Its embarrassing. He coulda done far better than that. And just about any lib has to agree on that. Sheesh.” – Two words: Hilary Rodham
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
4:11 pm
Irational,
You had con cred?
Give me 100 hail Rush LimpBalls and maybe I’ll grant you some a that thar con cred.
getalife
May 2nd, 2012
4:11 pm
“I’m going to start giving you false tertiarys as oppposed to just binarys.”
We decode it as garbage in garbage out.
Boom.
I drop bombs on doomy.