With all its flaws, regional T-SPLOST still needed
The Georgia chapter of the Sierra Club released its assessment of the proposed regional transportation sales tax this week. It was harsh, damning and unfortunately all too accurate.
In brief, the report explains:
– The $7.2 billion metro Atlanta project list is weighted too heavily to highway construction, with too little investment in transit. Furthermore, the state has provided no mechanism for maintaining and operating transit assets once the 10-year special sales tax expires.
– State leaders have refused to give the metro region control of its transit future, yet still balk at providing that leadership themselves. Without a governing mechanism, a regional system is a pipedream. And commuter rail, one of the most promising options available to both ease congestion and reorient development patterns, is ignored in the plan.
– MARTA is treated with disdain and contempt, when it should be embraced as the core of a regional transit system. As the report notes, “MARTA is the sole target of an egregious provision that forbids any T-SPLOST revenues from being spent on MARTA’s operations, the agency’s most pressing financial need. No other transportation provider is singled out in such a manner.”
Most of the indictment is correct; I agree with it. And yet, when the time comes in July, I plan to vote in favor of the proposal anyway. Why?
Well, because politics is the art of the possible.
The harsh truth is that it is impossible to correct a lot of the problems identified by the Sierra Club, at least in an acceptable time frame. They are part of a larger, more fundamental debate that has still to be won. Consider the funding imbalance between transit and highways. Even if voters reject the T-SPLOST in July, and even if some other transportation-funding mechanism is created to replace it, the notion that transit would be given greater prominence in a new plan is fantasy.
While public attitudes toward transit are changing in the metro region, we’re probably still a decade away from a political climate in which transit can be funded at the levels that the Sierra Club would find acceptable.
I don’t think we can wait those 10 years. It’s time to take what we can now, and build upon it.
It’s also important to think through what’s possible and not possible should voters reject the July ballot question. In its analysis, the Sierra Club argues that “lower-than-expected support for the T-SPLOST in Fulton and DeKalb — where proponents are counting on their strongest support — would send a message to state and regional leaders that continued political gamesmanship on MARTA and related issues will not be tolerated.”
That’s one potential outcome of a July defeat, but it assumes a level of analysis by state leaders that history says is unlikely. In addition, I just don’t think that those with the power to make such decisions under the Gold Dome are all that concerned about what pro-MARTA voters in Fulton and DeKalb will or will not tolerate.
More likely, state legislators will draw the conclusion that is easiest on themselves. They’ll note that voters rejected a tax increase for transportation and rejected investment in regional transit, and they’ll use that as an excuse for several more years of dithering.
Again, I don’t think we can wait.
So what is possible? Well, some of the problems identified in the club’s analysis can still be addressed and resolved. Gov. Nathan Deal and House Speaker David Ralston understand that some form of regional transit governance will be essential if the sales tax is approved, even if they don’t yet know how to build enough political support to create it. The system is unworkable without it; necessity will force its creation.
Admittedly, things shouldn’t be so difficult. The evidence is overwhelming that metro Atlanta’s transportation infrastructure, its governance and the vision behind it have become outdated. But changing that course will require changing minds and ideas, and that’s going to be a slow, lurching process.
In the meantime, an opportunity for progress should be embraced rather than rejected.
– Jay Bookman
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648 comments Add your comment
CJ
May 2nd, 2012
12:49 pm
RE: “an opportunity for progress should be embraced rather than rejected.”
I don’t regard T-SPLOST as an opportunity for progress. I view it as an opportunity for regress.
I’m less interested in the project itself than I am in the funding mechanism. The legislature has been passing special interest income tax breaks for years now, and by subsequently seeking increases in sales taxes, they are slowly and deliberately seeking to shift the tax burden from the rich to the middle class and, primarily, the poor.
I agree with Jay, that our regional transportation system is in dire need of expansion, repair, and upgrades…but not on the backs of the poorest among us.
Jefferson
May 2nd, 2012
12:49 pm
Raise the property taxes for roads and MARTA, that’s a captive audience.
EJ Moosa
May 2nd, 2012
12:49 pm
Private hiring is expected to easily exceed the 200,000 level, offset to a degree by a continued loss of public-sector jobs.
– Jay Bookman
Let’s talk jobs…..or are you waiting for tomorrow’s confirmation?
Joe Hussein Mama
May 2nd, 2012
12:49 pm
U. Samantha — “HUSSEIN is asking why govt would build something that didn’t have a great purpose”
Nope. Hussein is asking you to explain why the DC METRO Silver Line is being built, since it manifestly doesn’t agree with what you say a rail line has to have. Predictably, you’ve failed to answer and are now executing a dodge.
“i bet Hussein has no problem finding many items in the Defense Budget that would be considered no purpose!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
I’m a disabled Army veteran. So if you have some kind of direct insult to level at me, then bring it on. Otherwise, I suggest you man up, get off the insult train and get back on topic.
“govt’s don’t waste money people”
Nobody here said or claimed any such thing. You’re responding to an argument nobody made.
JamVet
May 2nd, 2012
12:51 pm
Pick your poison, 20 minutes on a train or 50 minutes in gridlock.
But don’t get me wrong, it’s not like I’m saddened by the yokels moving along at 15MPH from Bumpkinburb.
Gawdknows it is one of their few self-destructive ways that don’t impact me…
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
12:51 pm
USinUK
yes
when people say LONDON
they really start thinking about ATLANTA
NY, PARIS, ROME, LA, HONG KONG, TOKYO, MOSCOW and ATLANTA, then LONDON
which city does not fit into this string?
Joe Hussein Mama
May 2nd, 2012
12:52 pm
Doom — “and fwiw I would rather sit in a car and listen to my own music and not have to put up with stinky passengers, rude people playing their music loud, singing, etc.”
Folks used to ask me how I could stand flying through Hartsfield twice a week, every week.
I’d ask them how they could stand getting on the Perimeter twice a DAY, every day.
At least during my commute I got to sit, read the paper, enjoy a drink and not stress about driving — the dude up in the cockpit took care of that.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
12:53 pm
sorry if it was a head injury Hussein…….. i am appreciative that you served me and my fellow citizens
USinUK
May 2nd, 2012
12:54 pm
Uncle Samantha -
as one who has lived in both places, I can tell you that – when it comes to suburban sprawl and a spread-out “office space”, the two are VERY alike.
the difference? no grits here … and they have a love of baked beans at breakfast that surpasses all understanding.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 2nd, 2012
12:54 pm
and please
atlanta is not a TOURIST ATTRACTION
The aquarium; Six Flags; sporting events at the dome, Phillips arena, and Turner Field; Stone Mountain, nope nothing to see there.
RB from Gwinnett
May 2nd, 2012
12:55 pm
TD. They also don’t consider more people on transit reduces gas taxes which is a primary road funding source. They’ll want to raise that next when that well runs dry.
Grasshopper
May 2nd, 2012
12:55 pm
Density of London – 5100 per square km – Number 43 in the world
Density of Atlanta – 700 per square km – Number 203 in the world
So can we stop comparing London to Atlanta now?
http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/largest-cities-density-125.html
Jm
May 2nd, 2012
12:55 pm
Joe mama
Bus lanes I think are a great cost effective solution
Bus guideways are cheaper than light rail
But I think both of those are only useful in small areas
I’d also like to echo the folks who pointed out the silliness of having two technologies that require transfer
That said, it’s a better solution than none, or the insanely expensive one: heavy rail everwhere
USinUK
May 2nd, 2012
12:56 pm
Kam – don’t forget Coke World, all the Civil War stuff in the surrounding area, all the conferences that take place at the Georgia Congress Center … to name a few more
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
12:57 pm
kamchak
you made me wet myself
every kid dreams of going to the aquarium, six flags, sporting events and parks
guess what
other places have those
ridiculousness
Joe Hussein Mama
May 2nd, 2012
12:57 pm
U. Samantha — “sorry if it was a head injury Hussein”
I’m sorry you can’t man up and answer a question I’ve asked you half a dozen times now. It’s pretty clear that you don’t *want* to answer it for some reason, and I think I know why.
“i am appreciative that you served me and my fellow citizens”
You and your insincere apology can kiss my you-know-what. If you’re going to deride my service and then turn around and act like you appreciate my service, it would be better for you to not mention it at all.
Grow up.
Grasshopper
May 2nd, 2012
12:57 pm
“Pick your poison, 20 minutes on a train or 50 minutes in gridlock”
You have to get to the train first. It doesn’t come to your front door.
USinUK
May 2nd, 2012
12:58 pm
Grasshopper – AND SURROUNDING AREAS
(sheesh … you people just want to keep pretending that Atlanta is still farmland rather than an urban hub)
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
12:58 pm
“I did. Makes you wonder why they’re building the Silver Line, doesn’t it?”
Given their budget shortfall and the need for federal money to subsidize local projects like this it makes me wonder why also. But then when 3rd parties can make decisions without being directly accountable for the failure of their pet projects is it any wonder projects like amtrak and marta got built.
I will believe that a rail in Cobb that you speak of will work when they can get the existing mart line to work without budget shortfalls. Till then talk of rail lines in other areas of metro atl working when the current rail network doesn’t even work is just more liberal whimsicalnesss and foolishness.
Despite the evidence of marta’s failure right in front of your very own eyes you continue to tout that it will work if we only build in other areas of atl as well. Bizarre.
USinUK
May 2nd, 2012
12:59 pm
“You have to get to the train first. It doesn’t come to your front door.”
5 minute drive to the station … or a 20-minute walk …
OH!!!! the pain!!!!!
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
1:00 pm
RB from Gwinnett,
They don’t consider a lot of things. Such is life in the bizarro world of the kook left.
USinUK
May 2nd, 2012
1:00 pm
ATL airport is known as the world’s busiest airport and this is also because Georgia is one of the world’s most visited tourist place and the best resorts in the world.
http://www.articledashboard.com/Article/Atl-airport-and-Atlanta-World-s-most-visited-tourist-place/2395811
Joe Hussein Mama
May 2nd, 2012
1:00 pm
Jm — “But I think both of those are only useful in small areas”
“I’d also like to echo the folks who pointed out the silliness of having two technologies that require transfer”
“That said, it’s a better solution than none, or the insanely expensive one: heavy rail everwhere”
I agree on most counts, but I have to ask — aren’t you arguing for *some* transfer methodologies, or else doing away with the existing heavy rail infrastructure? If you want lighter forms of transit and minimized transfers between modes, then don’t you have to get rid of some or all of the heavy rail? That seems like a huge cost.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
1:01 pm
YES
when thinking of TOP TOURIST destinations in the US
MOST AMERICANS choose ATLANTA
following in the distant
NYC
WASH DC
LA
Honolulu
Maui
Orlando
San Francisco
Las Vegas
Miami south beach
who would want to go there when you can go to ATLANTA
USinUK
May 2nd, 2012
1:01 pm
“They also don’t consider more people on transit reduces gas taxes which is a primary road funding source.”
and when you have fewer people on the road, you don’t NEED as much money to fund repairs … expansion … etc
godless heathen
May 2nd, 2012
1:02 pm
“and fwiw I would rather sit in a car and listen to my own music and not have to put up with stinky passengers, rude people playing their music loud, singing, etc.”
And if I need to cut one, just let it rip and roll the window down.
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
1:03 pm
“5 minute drive to the station”
And how many people in ATL have a 5 minute drive to a marta rail station? And then there is the 10-20-30 minute wait for the train.
Grasshopper
May 2nd, 2012
1:04 pm
“5 minute drive to the station … or a 20-minute walk’
Really? 5 minute drive or 20-minute walk to the vaunted Multi-Modal station at the Galleria? From East Cobb? West Cobb? You really are showing your geographical ignorance here.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:04 pm
JHM – It seems like someone should come up with a way to run light rail trains on heavy rail lines. Seriously, it could reduce the need for those transfer stations.
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
1:05 pm
godless heathen,
A very valid point. I mean really. Who the hell can argue with that one?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 2nd, 2012
1:06 pm
every kid dreams of going to the aquarium, six flags, sporting events and parks
Only kids are tourists?
You really are a very silly person.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 2nd, 2012
1:06 pm
Doom — “without being directly accountable for the failure of their pet projects is it any wonder projects like amtrak and marta got built.”
Amtrak uses existing freight rail lines in most of the country. I don’t think it’s accurate to talk about Amtrak being “built,” because it pretty much existed already.
“I will believe that a rail in Cobb that you speak of will work when they can get the existing mart line to work without budget shortfalls.”
How’s CCT doing these days? And the GRTA Express in that area? What’s their daily ridership? How are their finances?
“Till then talk of rail lines in other areas of metro atl working when the current rail network doesn’t even work is just more liberal whimsicalnesss and foolishness.”
I didn’t bring up rail or advocate it, but thanks for leaping to conclusions, Doom. I can always count on you for that.
“Despite the evidence of marta’s failure right in front of your very own eyes you continue to tout that it will work if we only build in other areas of atl as well.”
Didn’t say that at all. Once again, you’re putting words in my mouth.
“Bizarre.”
It certainly is; it’s like you don’t actually hear what I’m saying and just replace what I actually *do* say with the things you *wanted* me to say.
I’m in support of increased transit, yes. But I’m not *married* to the idea of it having to be heavy, MARTA-style rail everywhere, or even at all. I think you erroneously jumped to the conclusion that that’s what I’ve been saying.
Jm
May 2nd, 2012
1:06 pm
Joe mama
In not arguing for scrapping the heavy rail
Call me pangloss. I think the proposed solution (list) is about as good as it can be
I might have tilted the spending more to roads
But toll roads could help fix that
F. Sinkwich
May 2nd, 2012
1:06 pm
Hey, Jammie.
Check out these pics of the Occutards who tried to IED a bridge in Ohio:
http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/lawyer-questions-informants-role-1429654.html
Which ones are the nuns?
Bwaaaahaha…
USinUK
May 2nd, 2012
1:07 pm
aaaaaaaaaaaaaand, that’s what we’re talking about, numpties … INVESTMENT … which means MORE stations that would be CLOSER, including a multi-modal station
oy to the vey …
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
1:07 pm
godless,
I’ll do you the honor of nominating that post @ 1:02 as post of the day.
Grasshopper
May 2nd, 2012
1:07 pm
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
12:33 pm
“USinUK said
but, I think government subsidization is a good thing – the fewer cars on the road, the less the governmetn has to pay in infrastructure repair, expansion, etc.
and therein lies the difference between the UK and the US
UK wants you to ride a train and be corraled like cattle
US wants you to drive a car and to be free”
Sums it up prtty succinctly. Thanks Sam.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:07 pm
Grasshopper – Yeah, it is horrible that the government forced all of y’all to move out into the suburbs, so far away from all the good things in life. Wait, you mean they didn’t force you to? But, I thought they did. Hey, I have an idea! If we get these rail systems throughout the metro, I bet the county bus systems could switch their service from shuttling people into Atlanta all day to picking people up all over the county and dropping them at the train stations. No, that wouldn’t work, there might actually end up being a 5 minute walk to a station/bus stop from your house, and I’m not sure I want you coming into Downtown.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
1:08 pm
thug
you are the silly one………. atlanta is not a tourist attraction
aquariums, amusement parks, sporting events and parks are in all areas of the us
no one comes to atlanta for those as their vacation
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:09 pm
Kam – I stopped being a tourist as soon as I stopped being a kid.
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
1:09 pm
“that’s what we’re talking about, numpties … INVESTMENT …”
INVESTMENT- I wondered when we would get around to the liberal code word for waste and boondoggle.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
1:10 pm
Master Po: What do you hear?
Caine: I hear the grasshopper.
Jm
May 2nd, 2012
1:10 pm
Irrational
Not a crazy idea
Except for the fact that all the heavy rail trains would have to go slow
Or the Light rail passengers would have to accept being run over every 8 minutes
Joe Hussein Mama
May 2nd, 2012
1:11 pm
(ir)Rational — “JHM – It seems like someone should come up with a way to run light rail trains on heavy rail lines. Seriously, it could reduce the need for those transfer stations.”
Ooh, now that’s an intriguing idea! I wonder if it’s possible to have light rail that runs on two different gauges, and light cars that can operate on both gauges? You could have a train that ran on the main trunk line, but then it could veer off onto one of the lighter-gauge lines, or even drop part of itself and split up — with one part staying on the trunk and one part joining the smaller, lighter line.
Your engineering mind has presented us with a unique and thought-provoking idea, (ir)Rational.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:12 pm
Jm – That’s where the inventing part comes in. We have one of the best engineering schools in the world right in Midtown. Seems like we could get some of them to work on it.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:13 pm
JHM – Just remember it is my idea. And don’t race me to Tech, I’m only a few minutes away.
Doggone/GA
May 2nd, 2012
1:13 pm
“atlanta is not a TOURIST ATTRACTION”
And maybe, just maybe, that’s because it’s so hard to GET AROUND IN IT.
jm
May 2nd, 2012
1:15 pm
exceptionally relevant article
Suburban Swap: Trading a Backyard for a Train Station
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304811304577370044093629550.html?grcc=grdt&mod=WSJ_hps_sections_lifestyle
Grasshopper
May 2nd, 2012
1:15 pm
“Grasshopper – Yeah, it is horrible that the government forced all of y’all to move out into the suburbs, so far away from all the good things in life.”
Considering I have lived intown for 25+ years and work downtown, my commute by my beautiful, gas-guzzling SUV is 15-20 minutes. If I took lovely Marta, we’re talking an hour +. No thanks. And sorry that we may be rubbing shoulders.
JamVet
May 2nd, 2012
1:15 pm
I have not taken a flight out of town in many years, where I drove to the airport. A $7 cab ride to the Doraville station, a nice 40 minute ride where I can read that Marxist rag, the AJC, and then get off the train and basically be in the airport walking up to the ticket counter or going through security.
And no $65 parking tab awaiting me when I get back to Hotlanta.
The days of me driving through or around the city to get to Hartsfield are done. Over. Finis.
But you
hayseedsjet setters and sophisticates enjoy the view of them there skyscrapers from your Suburban as you move along at 12MPH, OK?Mallory
May 2nd, 2012
1:15 pm
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
1:01 pm
YES
when thinking of TOP TOURIST destinations in the US
MOST AMERICANS choose ATLANTA,following in the distant NYC WASH DC LA…
Wow, just imagine if you could start in Atlanta, and take a 2 hour bullet train to get to the pristine white sand of the panhandle, or an hour train to Savannah or Charleston. Atlanta would quickly move up that list.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
May 2nd, 2012
1:16 pm
EJ Moosa – “Private hiring is expected to easily exceed the 200,000 level, offset to a degree by a continued loss of public-sector jobs.– Jay Bookman”
EJ. Where did you get that quote from Jay? I can’t find it. Thank you.
If people wanted to ride the train they would.
Jay
May 2nd, 2012
1:16 pm
I’m at the Senate Ethics Committee hearing on Sen. Don Balfour. Or at least I was until they kicked us all out for executive session.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 2nd, 2012
1:16 pm
Well, I expect alot of people would want to travel to Atlanta so they can say they got mugged or maybe yelled at by a violent bum. And everybody would want to say they saw the one guy working while being surrounded by five other street workers watching him. And don’t forget seeing all the one-way streets so people can drive five miles to get to a place they can see from the street they’re driving on. But that’s just me. Maybe some tourists think different and expect more.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:17 pm
Grasshopper – I’ve barely been alive for that long, old fart.
Since moving into Buckhead, my commute is somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 minutes door to door. Less in the summer when I don’t get slowed down by school traffic. It is the greatest thing I’ve experienced since moving to the Metro.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 2nd, 2012
1:18 pm
Jm — “Joe mama In not arguing for scrapping the heavy rail”
I like (ir)Rational’s idea of light cars that can use the existing heavy rail. What do you think?
“Call me pangloss. I think the proposed solution (list) is about as good as it can be”
“I might have tilted the spending more to roads”
“But toll roads could help fix that”
Are you familiar with the Dulles Toll Road in Virginia? It runs from the DC Beltway out to Dulles International Airport. It is primarily a tolled express route into DC, but there are central, cost-free lanes that you can use under certain circumstances:
1) You’re destination is the airport (in which case you pay no toll)
2) Your origin point is the airport (same thing)
3) You’re a registered bus or transit vehicle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulles_Toll_Road#Dulles_Toll_Road
They BOTH suck
May 2nd, 2012
1:19 pm
Jay
Expect as much from those good ole boys as you did when many of those same individuals were Democrats
Changing the D to an R surely didn’t do anything for their ethics, integrity and character
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:19 pm
Mallory – I’m thinking that would mean a lot of people like me would take that hour or two hour train ride and turn it into a commute time.
I could handle two hours each way if I got to live in the Panhandle. Weekends would be awesome.
JamVet
May 2nd, 2012
1:19 pm
I see that the ugatard Frank Burns is up from his nap.
A great time for me to head out and do the working class hero thing again…
Jm
May 2nd, 2012
1:20 pm
Irrational
U could double up bays at each station. Expensive. Still a logistical nightmare. Transfer is better…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 2nd, 2012
1:20 pm
(ir)Rational
I became a ‘Quakes fan back in 2003, before packed up and moved to Houston and became the Dynamos. I would schedule a trip to San Jose in mid August because there is also (at that time, free) a Jazz Fest so I could catch a weekend of Jazz and see my favorite MLS team at home.
I can imagine that there are many Atlanta Braves fans out there as well that don’t live in Atlanta and would like to visit the aquarium, maybe take in the Atlanta Jazz Fest Memorial Day weekend and catch a braves game or two.
Some people, however, seem to think that because other cities have similar attractions, that scenario is somehow implausible.
MAATF
May 2nd, 2012
1:21 pm
I am voting “no.” Mostly because I think we are not ready. In Cobb, we are expecting a study next year that addresses transportation options along a major, traffic nightmare stretch of Cobb. Further, the games playing that is going on with the Cumberland to Atlanta rail line is a bad deal for Cobb. We pay for a stretch of rail that goes for 1 mile in Cobb and 8 or 9 miles in Fulton/Atlanta.
But more than anything else, I think the structure that was set-up to plan the programs and oversee the regional efforts is badly flawed. What I saw in the process was more like letting all our town and county commissioners get their hands on a bigger pot of money that lets them continue to play their short sighted games that benefit their friends. They traded favors with each other – you vote for mine and I’ll vote for yours.
I don’t see the overall, long-range plan and a ten year commitment to this tom-foolery is insane.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:21 pm
Redneck – Are you saying that Atlanta is the only place with panhandlers, lazy construction workers and one way streets? Man, I am missing out!
JamVet
May 2nd, 2012
1:23 pm
Beautiful and SUV in the same sentence???
OMG.
You are a Madison Avenue fat cat’s wet dream…
godless heathen
May 2nd, 2012
1:24 pm
Thank you TD. The freedom to be able to cut one at your own discretion is usually not brought up in these discussions, but it should not be under-emphasized.
DawgDad
May 2nd, 2012
1:25 pm
Reading through the posts leaves me wondering what problems people advocating mass transit are trying to solve. Our economy continues to shift to service-based and knowledge work; companies like mine are moving fast and furious to virtual workplaces to the point if I go into the office there are rarely 1/2 of the people physically there. This trend is ACCELERATING. Yes, downtown businesses, entertainment venues, shopping malls all need people on-site, but is the volume of commuters into population centers increasing to the extent justifying massive investment? I don’t think so, I think T-SPLOST is mainly a political ploy to capture revenue for pet projects, many of which appear to be of questionable justification or blatantly offensive (toll lanes on Interstate highways).
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:25 pm
Jm – You understand the concept of “innovation” right? I’m not saying it is a/the best solution, I’m just saying it is a possible solution. I’m not an engineer, but I bet there are more than a few that could come up with something that would work well.
Kam – Yeah, crazy how there has never been a reason to travel to Atlanta. I mean, I know I’ve never seen any people from out of town here, except those pesky college students. Like at New Year’s Eve last year, I didn’t see ANYBODY from Virginia or Alabama here to watch football.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 2nd, 2012
1:25 pm
(ir)Rational — “JHM – Just remember it is my idea. And don’t race me to Tech, I’m only a few minutes away.”
You can have it; my first wife went to Tech for grad school and I’ve got too many bad memories of that place.
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
1:26 pm
“Amtrak uses existing freight rail lines in most of the country. I don’t think it’s accurate to talk about Amtrak being “built,” because it pretty much existed already.”
Regardless amtrak has a well documented history of losing money and being a boondoggle does it not? And this in the heavily populous northeastern corridor.
I don’t know CCT’s transit and finances. I assume its run much better and more efficiently than fulton county. Big difference in local govt.I can’t imagine why? Is one run by Ds and the other by Rs?
“I didn’t bring up rail or advocate it, but thanks for leaping to conclusions, Doom. I can always count on you for that.”
I didn’t say that you did. I am merely making a statement about rail since many on here are also speaking of rail and since this article seems to advocate more rail.
“Despite the evidence of marta’s failure right in front of your very own eyes you continue to tout that it will work if we only build in other areas of atl as well.”- Thulsa Doom
“Didn’t say that at all. Once again, you’re putting words in my mouth.”
Well you are advocating more public transit which unless I’m mistaken also includes marta. Does it not?
“Bizarre.”
“I’m in support of increased transit, yes. But I’m not *married* to the idea of it having to be heavy, MARTA-style rail everywhere, or even at all. I think you erroneously jumped to the conclusion that that’s what I’ve been saying.”
Keep in mind Joe that I’m speaking not just to you but to the liberal viewpoint in general that increased rail transit is the answer to a lot of this. So without putting words in your mouth are you saying that you did not or do not advocate for any new rail here in ATL?
godless heathen
May 2nd, 2012
1:26 pm
Senate Ethics – and Jay types that with a straight face.
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
1:28 pm
Godless Heathen,
Ya’ll nasty! Still funny though.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:28 pm
JHM – I start grad school there in August. When I graduated 4 years ago I told myself I would only go back for football games. Things change.
godless – Yeah, I was wondering about that.
Don't Forget
May 2nd, 2012
1:28 pm
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
11:53 am
DONT FORGET
thanks for the education…………..next you are going to tell me that OXYGEN can kill you……. let me check…………..
what!!!!!!!!!! omg
oxygen can kill you………… we need to regulate that as well
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What a total smartazz. Clearly your opinions are worthless.
G Mare 71( got the living' the red state BLUES!)
May 2nd, 2012
1:33 pm
I am voting NO for two reasons: I live on a fixed income & can’t afford more taxes; I did vote for the last one and saw some of that money being spent to WIDEN RARELY USED SIDEWALKS along Spring Road.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 2nd, 2012
1:34 pm
Mallory — “Wow, just imagine if you could start in Atlanta, and take a 2 hour bullet train to get to the pristine white sand of the panhandle, or an hour train to Savannah or Charleston. Atlanta would quickly move up that list.”
It’d take you something like 2 DAYS to do that by train now. The only passenger rail line through Atlanta (Amtrak) goes southbound to New Orleans and northbound to DC and NYC. I *think* you could change trains and come back south before getting to DC, but I could be mistaken on that. However, I’m almost certain that going southbound, you’d have to go all the way to New Orleans in order to change trains and catch one to Florida.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 2nd, 2012
1:34 pm
(ir)Rational
My Blue Lions against Newcastle in about an hour. If we beat ‘em at The Bridge, we can vault into 4th, with two fixtures remaining in the EPL (Liverpool and Blackburn).
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:37 pm
Kam – If y’all beat Bayern it doesn’t matter if you’re in 4th or not, and we just have to stay in 3rd.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 2nd, 2012
1:38 pm
(ir)Rational — “Redneck – Are you saying that Atlanta is the only place with panhandlers, lazy construction workers and one way streets? Man, I am missing out!”
I’ve traveled across a LOT of the US, and IMO, the rudest panhandlers were in Salt Lake City (I am not making that up). There were a whole lot more of them in Denver and San Francisco, but they must have been pretty high because they didn’t bother me at all. The pandhandlers in SLC were actually aggressive and demanding.
There are a lot of homeless folks in Honolulu, but most of them try to get employment of some kind, even if it’s just selling the local paper at stop lights (yes, they still do that out there). Mostly, they don’t bother the tourists.
Brosephu™
May 2nd, 2012
1:38 pm
every kid dreams of going to the aquarium, six flags, sporting events and parks
guess what
other places have those
ridiculousness
Very few aquariums IN THE WORLD have whale sharks swimming around. The only one in the entire Western Hemisphere is located in Atlanta, GA.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:41 pm
JHM – No no, you’re mistaken, panhandlers only exist in Atlanta. That’s what Redneck told me. In all honesty, if you get over being bothered by them, they’re typically the ONLY people you can talk to in Atlanta that actually know how to get places. They’re great for getting directions, everyone else always says something like “I don’t know, I don’t live around here.”
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:42 pm
Bro – You seemed to have misplaced an “s” in your name.
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
May 2nd, 2012
1:42 pm
Brosephu™
May 2nd, 2012
1:38 pm
I quit going to the Aquarium when they quit selling fish sandwiches…I love recycling
Brosephus™
May 2nd, 2012
1:44 pm
(ir)Rational
I’m so bad, I scared the “s” out of my name.
—————————-
Normal
I’ve always wanted to do the swim in the tank thing, but I don’t think they allow spear fishing in there.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:45 pm
Normal – I can’t think of too many places to get fresher fish. Although I did see a restaurant in Maine that was on a bay and had its own lobster pot. Can’t get too much fresher than that.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:46 pm
Bro – Wow. To both of those, just wow.
Brosephus™
May 2nd, 2012
1:48 pm
(ir)Rational
I do have a wild side….
Joe Hussein Mama
May 2nd, 2012
1:48 pm
Doom — “Regardless amtrak has a well documented history of losing money and being a boondoggle does it not?”
Yes and no. Yes, it loses money. No, I don’t think it’s a boondoggle. On a per-mile basis, commercial aviation costs as much in tax receipts as passenger rail does in the US.
“And this in the heavily populous northeastern corridor.”
IIRC, the NE corridor is the *most* profitable one for Amtrak, though I haven’t looked at their financials lately. I seem to recall that the long, thin routes out West are the big money-losers. Most stations in western states only open for a couple of hours each day — just to service the train when it passes through. Surprisingly, the Birmingham, AL station is the same way; it’s only open for about six hours each day, to catch the one train that passes through in each direction each day.
“I don’t know CCT’s transit and finances. I assume its run much better and more efficiently than fulton county. Big difference in local govt.I can’t imagine why? Is one run by Ds and the other by Rs?”
Cobb’s finances have always been well-run from what I understand. No idea if politics has anything to do with that.
“Well you are advocating more public transit which unless I’m mistaken also includes marta. Does it not?”
Not necessarily. As I said, I’m in support of increased public transit, but I’m not married to the idea of it being heavy, MARTA-style rail. There’s also bus, bus fixed guideway, light rail, light bus (van-sized buses for thin routes to transfer stations) and lots of other options.
“Keep in mind Joe that I’m speaking not just to you but to the liberal viewpoint in general that increased rail transit is the answer to a lot of this. So without putting words in your mouth are you saying that you did not or do not advocate for any new rail here in ATL?”
I’m for more public mass transit. If it happens to be rail, great. If it happens to be something other than rail, great. I’ll be pleased either way. It’s like a hungry man who just wants a meal; he’s probably going to be happy whether you give him a big uglyburger with cheese or a plate of bacon and eggs. Either way, he’s going to eat.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 2nd, 2012
1:49 pm
Kam – If y’all beat Bayern it doesn’t matter if you’re in 4th or not, and we just have to stay in 3rd.
Yeah sure, but I really want to go out winning these last three fixtures. Besides, I don’t wanna hear the whining from the 4th place team when they are relegated to the Europa League after we win the UCL.
Grasshopper
May 2nd, 2012
1:50 pm
“You are a Madison Avenue fat cat’s wet dream…”
Thanks. I’m a wet dream on a lot of avenues.
(ir)Rational
May 2nd, 2012
1:56 pm
Kam – I love hearing Spurs fans whine, you don’t?
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
May 2nd, 2012
1:56 pm
Bro’, (ir)
When my father was stationed in Germany, we used to go to this eatery that had a sluice with live rainbow trout in it. As you walked to the place, you picked your dinner…now that was fresh!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 2nd, 2012
2:00 pm
(ir)Rational
Our very own USinUK is, or at least was a Spurs fan, so no, I don’t wish that on her.
Thulsa Doom
May 2nd, 2012
2:04 pm
oe Mama,
Well allrighty then. Not much to disagree with you about. I’m in favor of public transportation but only if it can be done the Doomy way- kinda like six flags. Instead of big expensive rails we would have either fast moving sky buckets all over creation like at six flags or sky lifts for those of us who like being out in the elements. The dang things would move fast as hell and be a combo of fast transportation combined with a constant carnival ride effect. I would be in hog heaven if we could have transportation like that. Not sure as to how cost effective it would be but it would damn sure be fun.
Wm P. Lashley
May 2nd, 2012
2:05 pm
Why should we trust our Fine Upstanding Politians!! I mean, lets talk about the 400 toll, that was originally to go away, when it was paid for, Ha!!!, Or, we can talk about the HOT lanes on I-85, Ha!!! again. And, you think for one minute I would vote for this transportation referendum, not on your life. First, get rid of all the waste, both government and GDOT. Then, give us honest, Ethical, public servents that truly are for the people, instead of being bought and paid for by lobbiest, and getting greased under the table by special interest groups, and you know who you are, then, I might consider voting for some kind of referendum, not until that happens!!!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 2nd, 2012
2:09 pm
Off to the local restaurant/watering hole that has FSC.
Joe Hussein Mama
May 2nd, 2012
2:12 pm
G. Hopper — “Thanks. I’m a wet dream on a lot of avenues.”
I see what you did there.
Brosephus™
May 2nd, 2012
2:14 pm
Normal
They don’t get much more fresh than that!
Halftrack
May 2nd, 2012
2:34 pm
Without a Leadership mechanism, a regional system is a pipe dream. The GA. DOT is without a proper leader. It has two CEO heads. Legislators are afraid of losing power and are mugwumps when it comes to real decisions for the citizens of GA. November gives voters a chance (slim to none) to get some new blood into the system and to change the gridlock on Legislation. Maybe some will smell the coffee before November.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
May 2nd, 2012
2:34 pm
GREAT TOURIST ATTRACTIONS
vegas strip
statue of liberty
smithsonian
the guggenheim
napa valley
disneyworld
georgia aquarium
yes liberals have succumbed to trying to convince themselves atlanta needs more trains because americans are wetting themselves to come see our aquarium
They BOTH suck
May 2nd, 2012
2:39 pm
Uncle Sam
Must be your blogging persona……. I do not think you are that ill informed……… but maybe so
As of 2010, Atlanta is the seventh-most visited city in the United States, with over 35 million visitors per year.[1] The city was the 12th most popular destination for overseas visitors, who numbered 712,000 in total (2010).[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Atlanta
Now what exactly were you attempting to convey @ 2:34?
Thanks in advance for the clarification