A pretty expensive Swiss Army knife

I carry a pocket knife everywhere I go; it was part of how I was brought up, and I find that it comes in handy all the time. If I have to leave it at home because I’m going somewhere with a security screening — a Braves game, the state Capitol, etc., it feels a little odd.

I do not, however, choose to carry a Swiss Army knife. Sure, it can do a lot more things than my simple pocketknife, from opening a bottle of wine to sawing through a small branch. But it’s bulky and uncomfortable, and it does nothing particularly well.

Kind of like the F-35 fighter jet, which is supposed to be the Swiss Army knife of the U.S. military.

The F-35 is intended to serve the U.S. Air Force in its standard version, the Navy in its carrier version and the Marines in a third version. It is designed to perform both as an air-to-air fighter — light, fast and quick maneuvering — and as a close-air support platform for infantry engaged with the enemy, which means it has to carry a big bomb-and-missile payload.

However, as an article in Foreign Policy points out, it does none of those things all that well, and it does them at a very high and increasing sticker price:

“How bad is it? A review of the F-35’s cost, schedule, and performance — three essential measures of any Pentagon program — shows the problems are fundamental and still growing.

First, with regard to cost — a particularly important factor in what politicians keep saying is an austere defense budget environment — the F-35 is simply unaffordable. Although the plane was originally billed as a low-cost solution, major cost increases have plagued the program throughout the last decade. Last year, Pentagon leadership told Congress the acquisition price had increased another 16 percent, from $328.3 billion to $379.4 billion for the 2,457 aircraft to be bought. Not to worry, however — they pledged to finally reverse the growth.

The result? This February, the price increased another 4 percent to $395.7 billion and then even further in April. Don’t expect the cost overruns to end there: The test program is only 20 percent complete, the Government Accountability Office has reported, and the toughest tests are yet to come. Overall, the program’s cost has grown 75 percent from its original 2001 estimate of $226.5 billion — and that was for a larger buy of 2,866 aircraft.

Hundreds of F-35s will be built before 2019, when initial testing is complete. The additional cost to engineer modifications to fix the inevitable deficiencies that will be uncovered is unknown, but it is sure to exceed the $534 million already known from tests so far. The total program unit cost for each individual F-35, now at $161 million, is only a temporary plateau. Expect yet another increase in early 2013, when a new round of budget restrictions is sure to hit the Pentagon, and the F-35 will take more hits in the form of reducing the numbers to be bought, thereby increasing the unit cost of each plane.

A final note on expense: The F-35 will actually cost multiples of the $395.7 billion cited above. That is the current estimate only to acquire it, not the full life-cycle cost to operate it. The current appraisal for operations and support is $1.1 trillion — making for a grand total of $1.5 trillion, or more than the annual GDP of Spain. And that estimate is wildly optimistic: It assumes the F-35 will only be 42 percent more expensive to operate than an F-16, but the F-35 is much more complex. The only other “fifth generation” aircraft, the F-22 from the same manufacturer, is in some respects less complex than the F-35, but in 2010, it cost 300 percent more to operate per hour than the F-16. To be very conservative, expect the F-35 to be twice the operating and support cost of the F-16.”

In response, some will argue that whatever the price, we must pay it, and they will make that claim while depicting themselves as defense hawks. But real life doesn’t work like that. The country has a finite amount of capital to invest in defense, and a dollar wasted in one area is a dollar that is not available to be spent in another, perhaps more effective area. Efficiency in military spending is no less important, and in many ways much more important, than in other government operations.

But that’s not how we tend to see things. The hugely excessive and inexcusable GSA convention in Las Vegas cost taxpayers a total of $823,000, and drew congressional hearings over the extravagance. The mindset that allowed such waste is intolerable, but the amount of money involved is a rounding error of a rounding error over a program such as the F-35, which draws little to no public attention.

– Jay Bookman

458 comments Add your comment

Brosephus™

May 2nd, 2012
8:14 pm

There are more things in the GDP than are dreamt of in your economics, Brosephus.

Ok, genius. Here’s a simple idea. Show where spending can be cut within the government that will have the maximum impact on the deficit without adversely unemployment.

The point I’m trying to make is that our GDP is based on consumption, or spending. GDP does not differentiate between public sector OR private sector spending. Just as Jay’s talking about the F-35 program, if that program is cut then jobs are lost. A person without a job can not spend. No job means that there are no income taxes being paid. You also end up with someone potentially ending up on government assistance if no other employment is available. Highly specialized jobs, such as an engineer working with NASA may or may not have an easy task at finding another job.

While calling my view simplistic, many people screw things up because they miss the most simple of details.

TM

May 2nd, 2012
8:14 pm

“In Vietnam, only a handful of Guard units were ever deployed into combat” From the Air National Guard web site and this is just the Air Guard sounds like they deserve more credit

Vietnam War
On 23 January 1968, the North Koreans seized the American spy ship, U.S.S. Pueblo. President Johnson ordered a limited reserve mobilization. Next, the communists’ Tet offensive in South Vietnam in February 1968 stretched American military resources thinner. The President ordered another small mobilization. In response to the first presidential order, the ANG mobilized 9,343 personnel on 25 January 1968. Within 36 hours, approximately 95 percent of the Air Guardsmen had reported to their units. Those included eight tactical fighter groups, three tactical reconnaissance groups and three wing headquarters. The fighter units, which had been beneficiaries of additional resources under the “Combat Beef” program, were rated combat ready when called into federal service. Primarily because of equipment shortages, the reconnaissance units took about a month to prepare themselves for overseas service. The President mobilized and additional 1,333 Air Guardsmen on 13 May. ANG units mobilized in May included two tactical fighter groups and a medical evacuation unit. The former, equipped with F-86Hs, were sent to Cannon AFB, New Mexico to train Air Force pilots as forward air controllers and combat crewmen. The latter transported military patients in the continental U.S. and the Caribbean

On 3 May, F-100s from the 120th Tactical Fighter Squadron (Colorado) arrived at Phan Rang Air Base. By 1 June, all of the l20th’s pilots were flying combat missions. In the meantime, the 174th (Iowa), 188th (New Mexico), and the 136th (New York) had all deployed to Vietnam with their F-100s. In addition, 85 percent of the 355th Tactical Fighter Squadron — on paper a regular Air Force unit — were Air Guardsmen. The Air Guard units were quickly and effectively integrated into Air Force combat operations in Southeast Asia (SEA). Prior to their return home in April 1969, they flew 24,124 sortie and 38,614 combat hours. Those numbers rose to approximately 30,000 sorties and 50,000 combat hours if the predominantly Air Guard 355th was included. Two ANG fighter squadrons and their F-100Cs were dispatched to Korea in the summer of 1968 to replace the Air Force units that had been rushed there during the Pueblo crisis. The 166th (Ohio) and the 127th (Kansas) were formed into the 354th Tactical Fighter Wing. Except for the two flying squadrons, the wing consisted of individual Guardmembers and Air Force Reservists from other units. Once the Pueblo’s crew was returned, the Air Guardsmen returned to the U.S. and left federal service shortly thereafter.

The 123rd TRW experienced a difficult tour of active duty. The wing and its four units — the 123rd Tactical Reconnaissance Group (Kentucky), 189th Tactical Reconnaissance Group (TRG) (Arkansas), 152nd TRG (Reno), and the 123rd Reconnaissance Technical Squadron (RTS) (Arkansas) — had not been rated combat-ready when mobilized on 26 January 1968 primarily due to equipment shortages. The l23rd’s RF-101s began functioning as the primary Air Force tactical reconnaissance platforms in the continental U.S. Elements of its squadrons rotated temporary duty assignments in Japan and Korea from July 1968 until April 1969 providing photo reconnaissance support to American forces in those areas.

Air Guard volunteers also supported Air Force operations in Southeast Asia. The first sizable ANG airlift involvement began in 1965. They flew regularly to SEA until 1972. Between August 1965 and September, Air Guard domestic and offshore aeromedical evacuation flights freed active duty Air Force resources for such missions in SEA. In July 1970, two EC-121 “Super Constellations” from Pennsylvania’s 193rd Tactical Electronic Warfare Squadron departed their home station for Korat, Thailand. During the next six months, about 60 Guardsmen were rotated through the latter installation on 30 to 60 day tours in Operation “Commando Buzz,” Their aircraft served as flying radar stations and airborne control platforms for U.S. air operations in SEA until January 1971.
[Top]

Oscar

May 2nd, 2012
8:14 pm

China is growing but they have stopped most big gov’t ecomonic gov’t control, they are letting the free market dictate how the market moves…

_________________________

That a bit of confusion. Gorvernment still is in control of the finances. They do let the managers of the factories decide how much to produce and control the designs of the products according to what the manager thinks will sell. If he is wrong, he gets sacked by the government and is replaced.

sayin' it like it is

May 2nd, 2012
8:15 pm

Jay, you are cute, are you saying that communist china is following the communist manifesto to a T and their economy is growing.

JamVet

May 2nd, 2012
8:15 pm

Glad you liked it, William. (Though you pretend not to!)

Now run along and obsess over someone else here…

Maybe getalife? (Sorry, buddy.)

JKL2

May 2nd, 2012
8:15 pm

jamvet- To me, of all the GOP scum out there and gawdknows there is a ton, those swiftboating pieces of ___ are the worst of the worst of the worst kind of Americans

Jamvet luvs him some baby-killing!

Jay

May 2nd, 2012
8:16 pm

Jay, you are cute, are you saying that communist china is following the communist manifesto to a T and their economy is growing.

No, because that would be just as silly as what you said.

sayin' it like it is

May 2nd, 2012
8:16 pm

that element you discussed is true Oscar, I’ll give you that….

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

May 2nd, 2012
8:16 pm

TC: I don’t know Kerry’s true motivations and neither do you. But I would be lying if I said I wasn’t suspicious of them. In my mind, he is just not a clear cut hero (as arguably Washington, JFK, McCain and others have been).

Quick question, did you ever serve? If yes, should we question YOUR motivations? Just wondering…………………

Say: Debbie, I’m far from a French aristocrat, the war on poverty has led us to more people in poverty, and a large Democratic voter base…my argument is that we will never eleviate poverty with gov’t intervention. In fact, every time gov’t has tried to lift up the lower classes, they historically have created more people in poverty….

Of course you have FACTS to back that up and not just hyperbole? Correct?

Mary Elizabeth

May 2nd, 2012
8:17 pm

“Social welfare actually helps the poor and disabled Americans.

corporate welfare helps the wealthy that need no help.

Perhaps one day cons will stop helping Americans that need no help.”

===============================================

First, they have to stop being brainwashed and start seeing through the propaganda.

josef

May 2nd, 2012
8:17 pm

“Jay, you are cute…”

And soooo butch with that knife… :-)

sayin' it like it is

May 2nd, 2012
8:17 pm

Good night to you all….

getalife

May 2nd, 2012
8:17 pm

sayin,

You should research China so you will have a clue about what you are talking about.

Paul

May 2nd, 2012
8:18 pm

kayaker 7:28

Thoughtful response.

Thanks much.

________________________________________________________________

So it seems that of those who had the backbone to answer “drop or keep the F-35?’ those of the conservative persuasion (if I’ve mischaracterized any of you, apologies) the unanimous response is

Drop it!

Yet Republicans in Congress have vowed to not cut Defense and to increase funding and Romney has called for a dramatic increase in manning, weapons and funding.

Go figure.

They BOTH suck

May 2nd, 2012
8:19 pm

Sink

Not sure if you are dropping F bombs on people up here as you were doing to me downstairs, however I wanted you to know that I left you a msg downstairs………

Guess mommy didn’t cut off the crust off of your peanut butter samich and you had to drink tea instead of that juicy juice you love so much and you are a little flustered today

It will be ok

JKL2

May 2nd, 2012
8:20 pm

getalife- Yeah and when the wealthy control all the wealth and your children have no way to make it on their own, will you toss them on the street?

Not worried about my family at all. It’s all those obama supporters in the party of handouts you need to worry about.

sayin' it like it is

May 2nd, 2012
8:20 pm

China isn’t completely free, I get that, but they have stopped following the communist manifesto playbook and has adopted free market principles and they are a growing economy, though they terribly oppress their people…. Debbie, have you ever been to Detroit, have you read my other post about countries that tried to make all things equal for their people and have miserably failed….

Paul

May 2nd, 2012
8:22 pm

TM

I did not read all your cut and paste, but seriously, do you have any clue what “mobilization” means?

And when you read Guardsmen reported to their bases, do you have a clue what that means? (Hint: it does not mean they went to Da Nang or Seoul).

Old timer

May 2nd, 2012
8:22 pm

Do not carry this knife on a plane…just satin…..

Jay

May 2nd, 2012
8:22 pm

Thanks for proving my point, TM. Note that none of those activated were infantry. Note that some of the Air National Guard were deployed to no-doubt tough duty in the Caribbean and New Mexico.

Some 2.7 million Americans served in Vietnam. Fewer than 10,000 were Guardsmen.

You do the math.

They BOTH suck

May 2nd, 2012
8:22 pm

TM @ 8:14

All that sounds great and I’m sure you info is valid

With that said, was the a/c that Bush was trained on being used in service anytime during the Vietnam war?

My memory escapes me at this time.

Thanks

Brosephus™

May 2nd, 2012
8:22 pm

I’ll catch y’all later… Quitting time in these parts…

godless heathen

May 2nd, 2012
8:22 pm

Where’s Aquagirl? She’s going to jump all over all of you for calling our great military leaders liars when they say they need this plane. And she was in the military.

getalife

May 2nd, 2012
8:22 pm

jk,

What is the end game of corporate power?

Orange 12

May 2nd, 2012
8:23 pm

If you are doing to be the best of the best you have to have the best of the best weapons systems. They are not cheap and never will be. They start with a basic cost to complete the project then run into problems of which all cutting edge tech does. When you fix the unforseen problems, it costs money. This is the reason for the over runs. True, one will not normally use this type weapon on some terrorist hoo-ha, but there are some pretty sophisticated weapon systems belonging to countries who I wouldn’t trust very much. Heck, if defense was allways about saving a buck, we could go to the boneyard in Arizona for some F-4/A-4 aircraft. That would also cost alot of money to refurbish and you would not stand a chance against a modern war bird, kind of like takeing a knife to a gunfight. I’m not just talking about aircraft. I am talking about every weapon system we have. If you don’t value your freedom then go ahead and push for a weak defense.

JamVet

May 2nd, 2012
8:25 pm

JKL2, no babies were ever killed in Viet Nam by American forces, you commie!

Jeez, what did they teach you in that public school you went to?

BTW, how perilous was it when you were in the Webelos?! LOL.

Hell, you probably voted for Blood & Guts Saxby. And will again.

JKL2

May 2nd, 2012
8:25 pm

mary elizabeth- First, they have to stop being brainwashed and start seeing through the propaganda

It’s a real shame Fox news has such total control over all media. Somebody should help those poor people!

TaxPayer

May 2nd, 2012
8:27 pm

Uh Oh. Jay has challenged a right winger to do math. :lol:

JKL2

May 2nd, 2012
8:28 pm

they both- With that said, was the a/c that Bush was trained on being used in service anytime during the Vietnam war?

It’s Bush’s fault for not equipping the ANG with modern aircraft. That is a new one…

josef

May 2nd, 2012
8:28 pm

ZamVet

“Jeez, what did they teach you in that public school you went to?”

Not Robert Burns, we know that…! :-)

TaxPayer

May 2nd, 2012
8:28 pm

I heard Saxby volunteered… to teach the fine art of self-defense golf to soldiers stateside, for a nominal fee.

Towncrier

May 2nd, 2012
8:28 pm

“Quick question, did you ever serve? If yes, should we question YOUR motivations? Just wondering”

I did serve. And normally, no, I would not question a person’s motives for military service – especially during a war. But when one earns five combat medals during a four month stint, returns home and publicly (as opposed to privately) testifies before Congress about, among other things, atrocities committed by American soldiers, appears on a number of talk shows and soon thereafter gets into politics, then I kind of wonder. Heroes don’t brag or seek the limelight. And if anyone knows of any other service member in American history who has been awarded so many medals in such a brief period of time, please let me know (and I mean that). I mean, I am thinking he should be in the Avengers movie.

JKL2

May 2nd, 2012
8:31 pm

getalife- What is the end game of corporate power?

I guess you would have to ask the CEO/board of directors/stock holders. You might want to check out their mission statement. Different companies have different goals.

getalife

May 2nd, 2012
8:31 pm

town,

Are you talking about w?

Mary Elizabeth

May 2nd, 2012
8:32 pm

“What is the end game of corporate power?”
————————————————————————-

The same thing that the Edward G. Robinson character wanted in “Key Largo.” When asked what he wanted, his reply was, “More, I want more.”

getalife

May 2nd, 2012
8:33 pm

jk,

I knew that question was way over your head.

You are in the me generation and don’t care about the future.

Instead of swallowing all gop propaganda, try think things through to the end.

Towncrier

May 2nd, 2012
8:34 pm

“First, they have to stop being brainwashed and start seeing through the propaganda.”

Irony, thy name is Mary Elizabeth.

JamVet

May 2nd, 2012
8:35 pm

jonix, these damn crap-slinging, never-served, swiftboating wannabes are something, huh?

And thy are the ones who puff their chests out and puke up this Support the Troops garbage.

But ONLY if those troops agree exactly with their opinions.

Otherwise, to these gutless dittoheads, they are “phony soldiers”.

And you know the real kicker?

I have NEVER ONCE seen a lib swiftboat a Republican combat veteran because they disagreed with them.

Perhaps it has happened, but if so, it must be in the range of one ten-thousandth the times it has happened in reverse.

Hell, I admired the hell outta Bob Dole and Chuck Hagel and John McCain. even though I thought their politics were craaaap!

LOL.

josef

May 2nd, 2012
8:36 pm

They BOTH suck

May 2nd, 2012
8:37 pm

Towncrier @ 8:28

Thanks for your service.

With that said, you nor I have any 1st hand proof of what he did or didn’t do.

Maybe we should question you or anyone else for any medals earned

But that would be silly to say the least

Is Kerry like politicians in both parties in terms of flip flopping, etc? Duh

But to question or demean what we truly do not know……. I will let you and others have it at

People don’t seem to get mad because Cheney in his own words “had other priorities”……………

godless heathen

May 2nd, 2012
8:37 pm

“The same thing that the Edward G. Robinson character wanted in “Key Largo.” When asked what he wanted, his reply was, “More, I want more.””

Same can be said for the top brass of the Army, Air Force, Navy.

JamVet

May 2nd, 2012
8:37 pm

And don’t even get me started on the Hero of the Texas ANG who basically disappeared for the last year of his commitment and lost his flight status and pay.

And these clowns worshiped him as some sort of Audie Murphy, while they p*ssed on Cleland, Kerry and even McCain…

JKL2

May 2nd, 2012
8:38 pm

jamvet- JKL2, no babies were ever killed in Viet Nam by American forces, you commie!

I guess I’m confused about you calling John Kerry a “hero” and a “liar” at the same time?

-BTW, how perilous was it when you were in the Webelos?! LOL.

You never saw how our scoutmaster drove. I remember him taking out a mailbox on the way to camp one year. I did win the pinewood derby though. Not sure how any of this has to do with my time getting shot at, but ramble on…

-Hell, you probably voted for Blood & Guts Saxby. And will again.

I’d have to register in this state first. I will vote against obama for my fourth time though.

Recon 0311 2533

May 2nd, 2012
8:39 pm

The CiC and his administrations most important job is our national security. I’ll let the military make determinations as to what weapon systems best address national security before I’ll put my trust in Jay. If taxpayer money is wasted I would rather it be wasted in finding and deploying weapon systems that address our national security than I would spending it on lavish parties at taxpayer expense for federal government employee’s or leasing them automobiles.

Towncrier

May 2nd, 2012
8:39 pm

Thanks, josef. What were you trying to say by providing it?

getalife

May 2nd, 2012
8:40 pm

Rather still sticks to his story.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 2nd, 2012
8:40 pm

josef:

Just to set the record straight.

I respect your brother for his service.

That has nothing to do will “your” decision to not to join the military.

Towncrier

May 2nd, 2012
8:41 pm

“You never saw how our scoutmaster drove. I remember him taking out a mailbox on the way to camp one year. I did win the pinewood derby though. Not sure how any of this has to do with my time getting shot at, but ramble on…”

JLK2, that was a most amusing comeback. Well done.

Soothsayer

May 2nd, 2012
8:41 pm

“The country has a finite amount of capital to invest in defense, and a dollar wasted in one area is a dollar that is not available to be spent in another, perhaps more effective area. Efficiency in military spending is no less important, and in many ways much more important, than in other government operations.”

– Jay Bookman

See now, Jay, this is where I have to disagree with you. The government can extract unlimited amounts of “capital” from the populace. In fact, that’s what it’s all about — extraction.

Who we are “fighting,” what we are “fighting” for, whether we win or not, what the “spoils” of war are are no longer important in the neo-con era. Oh, yes! We’re still in the neo-con era regardless of Obama being President.

No, the only thing that matters is that we have war — endless, pointless war — “winning” no longer matters.

The historical reasons for war — i.e., the “spoils” of war — are no longer relevant. Poor countries like EYE-rack and Afghanistan have no spoils.

No, the real prize is the money that can be extracted from ignorant, gullible, naive, sheeple taxpayers and funneled to the Military/Security Complex.

But, wait! there’s more! There’s a “welfare queen” that’s on the mind of the ignorant taxpayers. Forget the corporate welfare.

JKL2

May 2nd, 2012
8:41 pm

Towncrier- But when one earns five combat medals during a four month stint, returns home and publicly (as opposed to privately) testifies before Congress about, among other things, atrocities committed by American soldiers, appears on a number of talk shows and soon thereafter gets into politics, then I kind of wonder.

Reminds me of Audie Murphy…

getalife

May 2nd, 2012
8:41 pm

josef,

Did you hear the sermon by the pastor sean harris?

barking frog

May 2nd, 2012
8:42 pm

No swift boat commander
or crew member was a coward.

josef

May 2nd, 2012
8:42 pm

CRIER

You piqued my interest in the number of medals and time served…

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 2nd, 2012
8:42 pm

TM:

Thank you for the information and we must not forget that Eastern Europe was a powderkeg.

My brother was there at the time as a tank commander. We were so bogged down in Nam that the East Germans/Russians could have had a field day had they chosen to come across that line.

Then our Guard Units would have fulfilled their mission.

JKL2

May 2nd, 2012
8:45 pm

getalife- You are in the me generation and don’t care about the future.

OWS says,”What?”

I understood, I just flatly deny your “boogieman” hypothesis.

They BOTH suck

May 2nd, 2012
8:45 pm

JKL2

“jamvet- JKL2, no babies were ever killed in Viet Nam by American forces, you commie!”

Really?

While this is certainly not a depiction of 99.99% the valiant effort and sacrifice of the troops who served in Vietnam (including my dad/ 3 tours, and 3 uncles)……………….. you facts are not correct

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

One of those involved lives in Columbus Ga and owns a jewelry store…….. maybe you might want to go down there sometime and see if he would like to discuss with you

Recon 0311 2533

May 2nd, 2012
8:46 pm

John Kerry is no Audie Murphy. Read ‘Unfit for Command” and you’ll know why Kerry is a POS. So many who served with him can’t be wrong about him.

getalife

May 2nd, 2012
8:46 pm

I know jk.

Thinking things through to the end was too much for your con brain to handle.

Bless your heart son.

Towncrier

May 2nd, 2012
8:47 pm

“Reminds me of Audie Murphy…”

Only it took Audie three years in the worst war in history to earn a few more significant medals. So, Kerry outdoes him by a long shot.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 2nd, 2012
8:47 pm

“Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier, or not having been at sea.”

Samuel Johnson

josef

May 2nd, 2012
8:47 pm

SCOUT

Save the gratuitous platitudes…the decision for me not to serve was HIS, not mine…or did you miss that? And, no, you don’t respect his service or you wouldn’t come in here with your testosterone attacks…and, just for the record, before he died, I had several discussions with him (he got some chuckles from Little Brother;s stirring the sh*t) and while he respected your service, he didn’t hold you in the highest regard…especially your attacks on gay folks in the military…

They BOTH suck

May 2nd, 2012
8:47 pm

“It’s Bush’s fault for not equipping the ANG with modern aircraft. That is a new one…”

I didn’t blame anyone……… Do not put words in my mouth.
If that is the best you have it shows your weakness not mine

And how many ANG a/c units were called up?

josef

May 2nd, 2012
8:48 pm

getalife

No. Fill me in.

getalife

May 2nd, 2012
8:49 pm

del,

When has corsi been right about anything?

Nafta super highway and a birther.

Are you really that gullible?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 2nd, 2012
8:49 pm

RECON:

I can’t say what Kerry was in Nam because I wasn’t with him. I’ll leave that to those who were.

But based on what he said about us who also served there he certainly is a “civilian” POS !

JKL2

May 2nd, 2012
8:49 pm

jamvet- And don’t even get me started on the Hero of the Texas ANG who basically disappeared for the last year of his commitment and lost his flight status and pay

Of course your going to tell us George W Bush is the only person in the history of the military to do that…

PS: don’t ask a medical unit about their certifications. It would probably kill you.

TaxPayer

May 2nd, 2012
8:50 pm

In an April 11 speech to the Marietta Rotary Club, The Marietta Daily Journal paraphrased Chambliss as saying health care costs are the fastest-rising expense in the Defense Department.

“If we’re not careful, it’s going to consume our ability to buy weapons systems and to pay our men and women at the rate we need to pay them,” Chambliss told the crowd in Marietta.

I suspect Saxby is pushing real hard to cut back on those healthcare benefits for the DoD so that money can be more appropriately spent on important stuff like Lockheed.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

May 2nd, 2012
8:50 pm

Towncrier : DDR:“some are talking budget cuts but what they really want is cuts to programs that fund people. they’ll keep gas subsidies and subsidizing of businesses to take jobs overseas, but they’ll scream bloody murder on programs that help the “little people”.
I don’t know what you are getting at here, DDR. I like you and want to respect your views, but do you not think we have a terrible deficit problem at this point and do you not think that government in almost all areas is going to have to shrink?

We can make the budget “shrink” by doing away with unnecessary subsidies to companies making BILLIONS OF DOLLARS PER DAY. We can start there and then work our way down the list. When the GOP really start talking about taking away gas subsidies, THEN I’ll know their serious about the budget. Until then, they’re just talking out the side of their necks.

Scout: Debbie: here was draft “avoidance” and there was draft “evasion”. Many factors were involved: Health, marriage, Lottery Number, Student Defferments, etc., etc. I separate the two.

Two points:

(a) you didn’t “separate the two” for Clinton and

(b) You still didn’t answer my question. “They ran a TV ad featuring the likenesses of Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, while criticizing Cleland, a war vet and a triple amputee who SERVED his country and paid the price for it. Were you up in arms over that or does your indignation only extend to repuglicans?

Also, since I read your comments on Obama and the OBL killing, was it right for Chambliss to use OBL’s likeness AND to liken him to Clelland in a political ad/campaign? Think seriously about your comment to this one, I may have to go back to some of your posts if you try to rewrite your recent commentary history.

JKL2: Would you rather get: 1: A check for $960 from the Red Cross 2: A check for $320 from the Government. Why do you libs insist it’s better to send people the $320?

The $320 check from the government. It’ll come every month until I no longer need it; while the Red Cross check is a “once a year” stipend. Duh!

TC: You are probably the most dreamy poster on this blog, Mary – it almost seems like you are in a trance. We need to get you a ticket to Detroit. And a biography of LBJ to read on the trip.

The government had nothing to do with Detroit’s decline. The Big Three did. You take away jobs from once thriving working people, and the community suffers. Besides, why are you so surprised? Detroit is what every Teapartyer in every city wants to see. They wanted Chrysler to fold as well as the post office, teachers, etc.; so in essence, they were advocating for another Detroit but on a much larger scale.

Doggone: It really doesn’t hurt…it really doesn’t…to actually EDUCATE yourself before you spout off about something you obviously know nothing about.

Doggone – THEN he’ll know the truth, that is if he can comprehend what he reads, and that’ll wreck his whole ridiculous theory!

Paul

May 2nd, 2012
8:50 pm

Orange 12

“If you are doing to be the best of the best you have to have the best of the best weapons systems. ”

Care to tell us how, according to the stats Jay cited, the F-35 is the best of the best?

Aside from in somebody’s dream?

Scout

During the time he was eligible to serve, josef was prohibited by the military from serving, even if he wanted to.

JamVet

May 2nd, 2012
8:50 pm

What a shame 2, you’d LOVE voting for our paragon of courage Saxby. He’s in that valorous mold of Cheney, Rove, O’Reilly, Limbaugh and Gingrich.

And what do you know, I’ll vote against the Republican-lite Barry for my second time in November.

But let’s face it, no matter how you justify your troop-smearing, none of you boys are qualified to shine Kerry’s combat boots…

Mary Elizabeth

May 2nd, 2012
8:50 pm

I’ll end this evening, where I started. Goodnight.

“Many in the private sector make millions off of defense programs – and have for generations. Americans are going to have to see through this, and they are going to have to choose between a commitment to life-supporting programs, such as Obamacare, or life-taking programs, such as those generated by the military.”

getalife

May 2nd, 2012
8:51 pm

josef,

He advised parents to beat their kids if they had gay thoughts.

A real hater.

Towncrier

May 2nd, 2012
8:51 pm

“You piqued my interest in the number of medals and time served…”

Okay. Audie Murphy is the best guy to make comparisons with I guess. And, again, if anyone can point me to another service member who earned five significant medals in just four months of service, I will stand down. But until anyone can, I will remain suspicious of the man.

josef

May 2nd, 2012
8:51 pm

Frog

“No swift boat commander
or crew member was a coward.”

Thank you for the voice from the wilderness. Your mouth to G-d’s ears.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

May 2nd, 2012
8:52 pm

Well, I’m OK with a few trillion for the military. It’ll keep us Safe. Besides, these cost increases are just a old trick. You know how it is, you see something advertized as dirt-cheap so you get to the store and they say they’re plumb out of those and if you’ll only pay 40% more there’s this new, improved model they can sell. Besides, nobody beleives the price these plane makers quote. Everybody knows once they get the bid the sky’s the limit on how much they’ll charge. That’s just Free Innerprize in action.

No, military spending don’t bother me. What bothers me is all the welfare we give to these jobless bums and the mothers of kids they got by laying around and doing You Know What with all kind of men on our dime. It ought to be a jungle out there, work or starve, devil take the hindmost, and all that. And then we give big checks to people just because they’re old! And they actually use our tax money to pay people for being out of work!

Why, just the other day I was delivering a load of beer to this Whole Foods and I seen this big fat Black woman wearing all kind of jewelry and fancy clothes and she was trailed by about six kids wearing Gucci loafers and Guess blue jeans. And she laid out a horse load of steaks and lobster tails on the cashier’s conveyor belt and paid for it all with food stamps. As I walked behind her to get out of the store I watched her and the kids get into a new Cadillac Escalade and drive off. And me, not even able to afford to eat lunch there at that salad bar thingie. That’s what’s wrong with this country.

So I say make military spending about 80% of the budget and let the riff-raff starve and live in culverts and under bridges and die if they ain’t got the money for food and Drs. We got Socialism. What we need is pure Free Innerprize. And more Tax Cuts.

Sorry if I got a little carried away, but that’s my opinion and it’s very true. Have a good night everybody.

Recon 0311 2533

May 2nd, 2012
8:52 pm

getalife, I’ve concluded long ago that you don’t know what you’re talking about, so gullibility may or may not apply in your case.

JamVet

May 2nd, 2012
8:54 pm

Of course your going to tell us George W Bush is the only person in the history of the military to do that…

You are not very bright, are you?

I written numerous times on this very forum about that very subject.

JamVet
March 19th, 2012
3:13 pm

(ir), I’ve never used that acronym (AWOL) in my life regarding GWB. He basically skipped out and got away with it. Scott free.

People act like that is impossible.

He was the consummate Fortunate Son that John Fogerty wrote a song about.

And I never once blamed him for using daddy to hide out there instead of going to the jungle. Tons of guys in this country were trying every angle they could to do the same. They just didn’t have as much help.

josef

May 2nd, 2012
8:55 pm

getalife

THAT one…I had evidently repressed it…oy, what a schmuck…

PAUL
A point my brother made! :-)

They BOTH suck

May 2nd, 2012
8:55 pm

“So many who served with him can’t be wrong about him”

Why did you fail to mention that not one individual who actually served on a SB with him concurs?

Many in the unit back up your opinion…….. some of them who even campaigned for him numerous times when he ran for House and Senate then turned their back

Why no mention that the SVB veteran spokesmen who went on Fox and the right wing talk shows to say the Kerry was never in Cambodia yet he told Nixon himself that he was in Cambodia as well?

Proof……. no problema…… thanks for asking

In his book Unfit for Command, O’Neill excoriates Kerry for (among other things) falsely claiming that he had been sent to Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968: “Kerry was never ordered into Cambodia by anyone and would have been court-martialed had he gone there.” But thanks to Nixon’s secret Oval Office tape from the 16 June 1971 meeting, we know that O’Neill told the same lie about himself to the nation’s Commander-in-Chief, when he told Nixon: “I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border.”

Thanks for bringing up that book…..

Great call

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

May 2nd, 2012
8:55 pm

josef:

Some are cut out for it …………. and some aren’t.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hbTDolkEhs

JKL2

May 2nd, 2012
8:56 pm

getalife- Thinking things through to the end was too much for your con brain to handle

I guess you’re just too smart for me lil’ Barack. Why don’t you explain the endgame of corporate power to me since you’re all knowing…

Recon 0311 2533

May 2nd, 2012
8:56 pm

0311/8541,

Read “Unfit for Command” and I believe you’ll find insight from those who did serve with Kerry. He was not a respected officer up and down the chain of command. There has been nothing creditable to refute the assessments of those close to him who criticized him.

getalife

May 2nd, 2012
8:57 pm

del,

corsi is a birther kook.

getalife

May 2nd, 2012
8:58 pm

Mitt Romney, Big Oil, and the Koch Brothers

May 2nd, 2012
8:58 pm

ad was created by Mitt Romney’s Big Oil allies, “Americans for Prosperity,”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IkC4gM6QX4

godless heathen

May 2nd, 2012
8:58 pm

Bravos down 6-0 to Roy Halliday. B-Mac just tied it up with a Granny!

Towncrier

May 2nd, 2012
8:59 pm

” When the GOP really start talking about taking away gas subsidies, THEN I’ll know their serious about the budget. Until then, they’re just talking out the side of their necks.”

It is not either or, sweetie – all must be included. Sixteen trillion in debt – get it?

“The government had nothing to do with Detroit’s decline. ”

Do you really think I was only talking about Detroit? I could send you to any number of urban areas in America and you would see basically the same thing. Geez, you are something to behold. THE WAY THE GOVERNMENT SPENT THE MONEY WAS FOOLISH AT BEST. Maybe this is something you’d understand” “Wisdom is proved right by her children”. So, please, show me the “wisdom” in how the War on Poverty was conducted by naming a city where unquestionable positive results have been demonstrated over the last 4-5 decades. Make me a believer!

getalife

May 2nd, 2012
8:59 pm

I think they should take that hate sermon from that pastor and use it to get these freaks out of politics.

Just plain sick in the head.

JamVet

May 2nd, 2012
9:00 pm

Sweeeet update, heathen!

Too bad my fantasy team is pitching like the staff on the 1962 Mets…

JKL2

May 2nd, 2012
9:00 pm

they both- And how many ANG a/c units were called up?

Don’t know, don’t care. Feel free to google away.

I do have a friend in the ANG that’s been deployed since 9/11. I guess times have changed.

They BOTH suck

May 2nd, 2012
9:01 pm

From Unfit for Command: Kerry was never in Cambodia during Christmas 1968, or at all during the Vietnam War. … Areas closer than 55 miles from the Cambodian border in the area of the Mekong River were patrolled by PBRs, a small river patrol craft, and not by Swift Boats. Preventing border crossings was considered so important at the time that an LCU (a large, mechanized landing craft) and several PBRs were stationed to ensure that no one could cross the border. [pp. 47-48]

O’NEILL: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.

NIXON: In a swift boat?

O’NEILL: Yes, sir.

That would be a conversation with President Nixon 1971 at the WH

hahahahahahaha

Recon 0311 2533

May 2nd, 2012
9:01 pm

“He was the consummate Fortunate Son that John Fogerty wrote a song about.”

So now we have a hippy wannabe who would have liked to be around when the CCR was cutting records in the 60’s. Yeah, true first hand knowledge there.

Orange 12

May 2nd, 2012
9:01 pm

They BOTH suck

May 2nd, 2012
9:01 pm

JKL2

I already know the number and you do as well

yes times have changed

Soothsayer

May 2nd, 2012
9:03 pm

Towncrier

May 2nd, 2012
9:04 pm

“So now we have a hippy wannabe who would have liked to be around when the CCR was cutting records in the 60’s. Yeah, true first hand knowledge there.”

I thought hippies were about peace and love. That doesn’t sound like JV.

JamVet

May 2nd, 2012
9:04 pm

Welcome to the 1950s. Southern Baptist style!

Virulently antigay North Carolina preacher Sean Harris took a half-step away from comments he made on Sunday where he told his congregation to attack young boys who act effeminate.

Harris words, recorded and uploaded to the Internet on Tuesday, enraged many. Though, not apparently his congregation at Fayetteville’s Berean Baptist Church, who, according to Harris, told him they knew he didn’t really mean what he said about punching and cracking the wrists of toddlers with “limp wrists.” The pastor made the comments while pushing his congregation to vote for North Carolina’s Amendment One, which would ban all recognized relationships that aren’t heterosexual marriage. Harris now claims he was joking about advocating violence against children, according to the Fayetteville Observer.

“If I had to say it again, I would say it differently, no doubt,” Harris tells the newspaper. “Those weren’t planned words, but what I do stand by is that the word of God makes it clear that effeminate behavior is ungodly. I’m not going to compromise on that.”

And LGBT activists weren’t the only people outraged by Harris — child advocates in the state condemned his remarks.

“We know that children thrive when they grow up in safe, stable, nurturing relationships,” said Rosie Allen Ryan, president of the nonprofit Prevent Child Abuse North Carolina. “Unfortunately, this pastor is telling his congregation to harm their children.”

Maybe more frightening than Harris’s shrieks for violence against children who don’t conform to society’s gender roles is the fact that his church runs a school, from kindgarten to high school, that graduated 18 students last year.

Recon 0311 2533

May 2nd, 2012
9:04 pm

TBS, Did you read the whole book or are you quoting an excerpt? Honest answer now.

They BOTH suck

May 2nd, 2012
9:04 pm

“Yeah, true first hand knowledge there.”

And your 1st hand knowledge of Kerry?

You did read a book from a guy who I have shown to be a liar on at least one issue

JamVet

May 2nd, 2012
9:05 pm

Go p*ss on some corpses, Deli…