Victor Davis Hanson and the non-existent ‘investors’ strike’
Victor Davis Hanson, writing in National Review, repeats a claim that has become all too familiar. According to Hansen, investors are so afraid of and offended by the Obama administration that they have refused to invest, in effect conducting a “sit-down strike … that has paralyzed the country and has been largely ignored by the media.”
Victor Davis Hanson
Well, let’s ignore it no longer. However, before we try to assess the validity of Hanson’s argument, we should test the assertion on which it is based. Has there in fact been a sit-down strike by capital “that has paralyzed the country and has been largely ignored by the media?”
Oddly, Hansen offers not a shred of evidence or data to support that contention. He simply assumes that it is true and assumes that his readers will assume that it’s true.
It is not true. In fact, it is demonstrably false.
This is not a new meme, of course. Conservatives have been making this identical claim from the very beginning of the Obama presidency. As far back as March 9, 2009, the Wall Street Journal editorial board was telling its readers that the stock market was faltering because of what it called “a declaration of hostility toward capitalists across the economy” by the Obama administration. (At that point, the administration had been in power for all of five weeks.)
Here’s what they wrote back then, under the headline “The Obama Economy: As the Dow keeps dropping, the president is running out of people to blame”:
“From punishing business to squandering scarce national public resources, Team Obama is creating more uncertainty and less confidence — and thus a longer period of recession or subpar growth….
“The powers in Congress — unrebuked by Mr. Obama — are ridiculing and punishing the very capitalists who are essential to a sustainable recovery. The result has been a capital strike, and the return of the fear from last year that we could face a far deeper downturn. This is no way to nurture a wounded economy back to health.”
Again, that was five weeks after Obama’s inauguration. Here’s what the stock market has done since then:
Dow Jones Industrial Average, Jan. 23, 2009 to present
That’s a 59.4 percent increase, representing one of the fastest rises in the history of the Dow Jones index. Since the Dow bottomed out on March 6, 2009 — three days before the WSJ editorial was published — the index has doubled.
Quite the “capital strike,” right? And yet the meme survives.
Now, let’s take a look at a less well-known but still critical measure of investment, Gross Private Domestic Investment:
The chart illustrates the fact that since the second quarter of 2009, gross private domestic investment has risen by $564 billion, an increase of 38 percent. For comparison’s sake, GPDI increased by 24 percent in the two and a half years after the economy bottomed out in the 2001 recession under George W. Bush. (See note below)
Hanson, in other words, has based his entire argument on a “fact” that is not a fact at all, but a fabrication. When conservatives started offering this critique barely a month into Obama’s presidency, it was absurdly premature but at least had some plausible foundation in the data. Today, the data tell us that the critique is utterly without foundation, yet still it is being offered.
Why? Because it conforms to the ideology, and in the minds of the modern conservative movement, conforming to the ideology is far more important than conforming to reality.
(NOTE: That raises an obvious question. If investment is indeed rebounding, why is the economy still so troubled? The answer is, because we have so much ground to make up. By the time Obama took office, private investment had fallen to levels not seen since 1997. The Great Recession had wiped out all of the gains of the 21st century and then some. During this recovery, we’ve clawed our way back to the investment levels of 2004.
– Jay Bookman
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368 comments Add your comment
JamVet
April 30th, 2012
3:09 pm
Casual,
Don’t you more properly mean the “vile, unprofessional ,despicable,” “a coward,” “characterless,” and “not a Lady,” Ms. Wasserman Schultz?
And like that disgraced and disgraceful ex-Army officer, shouldn’t you be wondering when she will “shut the heck up.”?
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
3:09 pm
Finn – And that is a problem?
Common Sense
April 30th, 2012
3:10 pm
And why aren’t you including the trillions in “investment” that government has made? Or is that just politically inconvenient at this time?
The largest GDP in US history. Sure doesn’t feel like it does it?
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
April 30th, 2012
3:10 pm
ir
hope you and your interests have a full life….
hey as long as you got yours big fella.
kayaker 71
April 30th, 2012
3:11 pm
Then there’s that evil corporate giant, Apple Computer. At last count before they posted a dividend on their stock, they had in excess of 1B dollars in cash, according to their CEO and CFO. That ain’t chump change, Bookman. I don’t see Apple opening any domestic factories as long as they can have the Chi Coms turn out what they sell. That liberal visionary, although deceased, Steve Jobs…..selling more I-Pads than the Chinese can produce. I am not sure why Hanson did not point out each individual corporation and how much cash it is sitting on….. perhaps he thought that he would leave that up to the reader to look up the separate balance sheets which are available to anyone with a computer. But liberals seem to need that served to them in a certain way or they just don’t get it.
jewcowboy
April 30th, 2012
3:12 pm
WWARD?
Tell those less fortunate to f*** off and die.
mm
April 30th, 2012
3:12 pm
I always thought it was most racism that was causing the righties to treat Obama so badly. But if you think about, they treated Clinton and Carter the same way
Clinton was the best republican president we ever had .
Obama is the second best.
carlosgvv
April 30th, 2012
3:12 pm
At the start of this recession, Big Business did what it does best, downsizing. Corporations begin massive layoffs, cut out any overtime, cut salaries and piled more work on their remaining employees. They are still doing this, though not quite as much as in years past. Only those companies who have realized they must start hiring to improve profits have done anything to improve the economy. Naturally, Big Business will deny any responsibility and have their lackeys blame the Obama Administration for all our countries’ troubles. Guess which parties’ electorate will believe every word of it?
Casual Observer
April 30th, 2012
3:13 pm
The economy may still be in the tank, gas prices remain high, housing market not expected to improve for a decade, and folks still losing jobs….but look at the bright side, you still have Joe.
“I guess what I’m trying to say without boring you too long at breakfast – and you all look dull as hell, I might add. The dullest audience I have ever spoken to. Just sitting there, staring at me. Pretend you like me!” – Joe Biden
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
3:13 pm
GG – Am I really supposed to worry about feeding the guy living under the bridge next to my office before I worry about feeding my wife? What about if we had children, would that change anything? I don’t understand the rationale that says I have to take care of others, or I’m living for others, instead of taking care of myself, and living for myself.
GT
April 30th, 2012
3:13 pm
I have friends of mine that will not buy foreign made cars, is that American in spirit?
Casual Observer
April 30th, 2012
3:14 pm
JamVet,
Yeah…her.
GT
April 30th, 2012
3:14 pm
It is coming up to the anniversary of Osama bin Laden’s death.
cloudodust
April 30th, 2012
3:14 pm
As a taxpayer, I wasn’t thrilled with being forced to invest in GM, an outfit with global implications and employees around the globe but we did…Seems my return on that investment was to secure existing union contracts…
TaxPayer
April 30th, 2012
3:15 pm
Per capita income may be low in China and India but when you factor in population
Would that make it per capita squared!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 30th, 2012
3:15 pm
(ir)Rational
The commentators just announced that the city of Manchester has a city wide ban on alcohol today ahead of today’s match.
That’s harsh.
kayaker 71
April 30th, 2012
3:16 pm
cloudodust, 3:14,
And they still owe the American taxpayer close to 30B dollars.
JamVet
April 30th, 2012
3:16 pm
So, Brother Kam and others, give me a quick synopsis of ManC and ManU…
rightwing troll
April 30th, 2012
3:17 pm
Not a single example or detail shared… why would I expect anything less?
EJ Moosa
April 30th, 2012
3:17 pm
“Only those companies who have realized they must start hiring to improve profits have done anything to improve the economy.”
Care to tell us how this improves profits in a slowing economy?
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
3:18 pm
Kam – Yeah, that is harsh. One side is REALLY going to need it at the end of the match. The other, is going to need it a few hours later to put up with all the drunk losers.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 30th, 2012
3:18 pm
And they still owe the American taxpayer close to 30B dollars
And how much do the bankers W bailed out owe us? Not a dime? Never see that again? You bet…
GT
April 30th, 2012
3:19 pm
(ir)Rational odds are good that you do not have a wife and if you do it is temporary, the man under the bridge is always there. I bet the odds are somewhere that says a man that feeds a homeless man under a bridge is more likely to be married longer than a selfish jerk.
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
3:20 pm
JamVet – Well, ManU is the incarnation of pure evil and wears Red. ManC is pretty much the same, but they wear light blue.
Seriously though, this match (assuming they both win out the rest of the season) determines who wins the ECL. Which makes it something of a big deal. It would be like GT and UGA playing in the National Championship Game. Oh, and having that game played in Atlanta.
AT
April 30th, 2012
3:20 pm
Jay,
“your point and your argument was that they’re NOT putting it offshore”
Did I mis-type? That they are keeping it offshore was exactly my point. You only copy/pasted part of the Moody’s article, not this part:
“This amount reflects the strength of most emerging-market economies over the last few years, the negative tax consequences of repatriating cash to the US and the disproportionate use of cash for US dividends, share buybacks and acquisitions. Without permanent reform that lowers the tax on overseas profits, Moody’s expects the absolute and proportionate amount of cash held overseas will continue to rise.”
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
April 30th, 2012
3:20 pm
Ir
Living for yourself.
Who is John Galt?
You, it seems.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 30th, 2012
3:21 pm
Care to tell us how this improves profits in a slowing economy?
A slowing economy doesn’t mean all businesses in that economy are seeing slowing demand. How has Apple performed the last 5 years, eh?
You hire based on demand. A current level of employees can meet a certain level of demand. If demand continues to rise you need to add more workers.
Jay
April 30th, 2012
3:22 pm
Per capita income may be low in China and India but when you factor in population and hence overall consumer demand due to enormous populations and enormous economies(China’s economy is now larger than Europe’s largest economy Germany) then you realize just how absurd your argument is. Gawd that was easy.
Hah! So out of a million poor Chinese, how many are able to afford a plasma TV? The answer is zero.
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
3:22 pm
GT – Thanks, I’ll be sure and tell my wife that some nameless person (I’m assuming) on a random blog told me that we wouldn’t be married much longer. I guess we should just go ahead and get a divorce, I mean, what’s the point of going through the pain of not liking each other if we already know it isn’t going to work out, we may as well just break if off now while we stand a chance of still being friends.
Seriously, wanting to make sure I have food on my table, clothes on my back, and a roof over that table now makes me a “selfish jerk?” You just can’t make that sh*t up.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
April 30th, 2012
3:23 pm
April jobs numbers on Friday. Let’s hope it is good news.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 30th, 2012
3:23 pm
Brother AmVet
Man U. is like the Dallas Cowboys, you either love ‘em, or you love to hate ‘em.
Man City was just recently purchase by a group out of UAE and they’ve been pouring in petro dollars to buy the best team and they’ve actually done a pretty god job of that in the past couple of years.
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
April 30th, 2012
3:24 pm
Saw this on another board and had to share. Sums it up pretty well.
Mitt Romney criticized Barack Obama for vowing to strike al-Qaeda targets inside Pakistan if necessary.”
That was then. A few shakes of the etch-a-sketch later…
Presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney says “of course” he would have ordered Osama bin Laden killed.
Flip. Flop.
Thulsa Doom
April 30th, 2012
3:25 pm
Criminy. I still can’t get a lib to answer the question. If investment is so great then why is the economy backsliding with recently downgraded economic growth expectations of a paltry 2% for this year which is nothing short of turrible, just turrible. Can any of them take a stab at that without saying its W’s fault in O’s 4th year in office?
Doomy waiting…
Jay
April 30th, 2012
3:25 pm
Moody’s expects the absolute and proportionate amount of cash held overseas will continue to rise.”
Read your own citation, AT. The “amount of cash held overseas”.
It is not being invested elsewhere, because there are no better investments elsewhere. It is CASH (or its electronic equivalent).
And again, as the charts above demonstrate, investment is increasing at a pretty quick pace here in the United States.
Poor Boy from Alabama
April 30th, 2012
3:25 pm
JB,
You charts are incomplete in that they don’t compare the way Corporate America operated before the Great Recession to how they operate after the Great Recession. Things look very different if you extend your chart to say 2007.
Corporate America is in fact sitting on a lot of cash. I suggest you look at a couple of sources:
Federal Reserve Flow of Funds report, Table L.101. Here are a couple of comparisons:
2007 / 2009 / Q4 2011 in $billions (Not seasonally adjusted)
Checkable deposits and currency: $552.9 / $705.8 / $1,195.8
Time and savings deposits: $800.7 / $842.1 / $940.8
Total Financial Assets: $17,358.0 / $16,933.5 / $18,654.6
You’ll get a similar set of figures if you go to Georgia Tech’s Financial Analysis Lab web site and download their Q3 2011 report for all industries. The spreadsheet shows that cash as a percentage of revenues is way above pre-recession levels. It averaged about 10% of revenues prior to the recession, peaked at about 16% in March of 2010 and is still about 14% today. Capital Expenditures, as a percentage of revenue are in fact below historical levels. They were around 4.2% as of the end of 2006, bottomed at 2.6% in March of 2010 and are at 3.3% as of September 2011.
A reasonable question is “Why?”. Here’s what CFO Magazine says about Mid-market firms:
http://www3.cfo.com/article/2012/4/growth-strategies_middle-market-revenue-growth-hiring-higher-healthcare-costs-ge-capital
“Middle-market companies expect revenue growth to moderate in the next 12 months, reflecting their lack of confidence in the U.S. and global economies and worries over higher health-care costs and new government regulations. All that is creating an uncertain financial picture for the firms, making them more likely to hoard cash than deploy it in hiring and capital expenditures.”
They drew this conclusion based upon a survey done by GE Capital and Ohio State University’s Fisher College of Business.
I’m not here to defend Victor Hansen Davis, but it’s pretty clear that Corporate America has concerns about the US economy, health care costs, and our regulatory environment. In response, they’re sitting on very high levels of cash.
kayaker 71
April 30th, 2012
3:25 pm
Wall Street Journal, Sept 17,2011,
“Corporations have more cash in their balance sheets than at any time in nearly one half a century. Non financial companies held more than 2T dollars in cash and other liquid assets at the end of June, the Federal Reserve reported Friday. That represents an increase of more than 88 B dollars since the end of March”.
Perhaps Mr. Hanson did his homework, after all.
cloudodust
April 30th, 2012
3:26 pm
“Hah! So out of a million poor Chinese, how many are able to afford a plasma TV? The answer is zero.”… Too bad they aren’t poor and living in America. Shoot, they’d be living like royality in comparison.
EJ Moosa
April 30th, 2012
3:26 pm
Good try Finn, but his example was for companies that need to improve profits. Apple does not fit that description does it?
But the newspaper industry certain does. Their earnings have dropped sharply for their most recent quarter. The way to higher profits then would be to start hiring more people in the newspaper industry, right?
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 30th, 2012
3:26 pm
iRational,
You could have a party and hook up tin cans to your bumper with a big sign that reads: “Just Divorced”
You have to plan ahead.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 30th, 2012
3:28 pm
The way to higher profits then would be to start hiring more people in the newspaper industry, right?
What? Hiring workers doesn’t increase profits without demand. Profits don’t increase unless demand increases.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 30th, 2012
3:28 pm
Criminy. I still can’t get a lib to answer the question. If investment is so great then why is the economy backsliding…
Had you actually read the posts on the first page, you would’ve discovered that ByteMe addressed that at 1:34.
Geez….
EJ Moosa
April 30th, 2012
3:29 pm
Did you actually read the first quarter GDP report?
“The deceleration in real GDP in the first quarter primarily reflected a deceleration in private
inventory investment and a downturn in nonresidential fixed investment that were partly offset by
accelerations in PCE and in exports.”
Does that sound like investment is increasing?
josef
April 30th, 2012
3:29 pm
irRational
The knee-jerkers are not following what you are saying…just like I said before on the investment at home versus abroad. You take care of your own first. That does not make you a bad person. However, you don’t stop there. There is no reason you (we) can’t take care of ourselves AND the man under the bridge…
And, just a guess, but I have my doubts those jumping your case here have had the homeless feller over for c*ctails and hors d’oeuvres lately…or a bowl of mush out the backdoor for that matter…
EJ Moosa
April 30th, 2012
3:29 pm
Hey, Finn, that’s your logic, not mine.
Moderate Line
April 30th, 2012
3:31 pm
Jay
April 30th, 2012
3:06 pm
“The recent recession we are sill 12% below the previous peak 19 quarters later. Also the total drop in investmet was 12% in the 2001 recession whereas the recent recession was 36.4%.”
Which is exactly the point I made in the footnote.
++++
The first thing you tried to show is that investment was not suffering as the Republicans showed. I dispute the notion since investment is suffering. However, I don’t agree with the Republicans on the point of people being afraid to invest because of Obama. Also, I don’t buy the argument by Republicans that to much regualtion cause the recession but your premise that the numbers prove the Republicans are wrong is incorrect.
scott
April 30th, 2012
3:31 pm
“Victor Davis Hanson has just demonstrated that the First Amendment does let you make a fool of yourself…
”
Something you libs do each and every day!!!
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
April 30th, 2012
3:31 pm
Off topic, but interesting reading for those of you who are afraid of Gays….
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/04/homophobic_maybe_you_re_gay_the_new_york_times_on_a_new_study_of_secret_sexuality_.html
EJ Moosa
April 30th, 2012
3:31 pm
Sorry Finn, my original comment which you responded to about Apple was a reference to a comment that companies that needed to improve profits would be hiring.
I am unsure why you brought Apple into the picture since they did not fit that description.
I realize that was not your logic.
Forgive me.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 30th, 2012
3:32 pm
Doomy, try this:
Investment is commonly people’s savings. If you are saving your money, then you aren’t spending that money. If you aren’t spending that money then companies aren’t seeing any demand from you. If companies don’t have demand, they don’t grow, don’t hire, don’t produce.
Does it make sense now?
Paul
April 30th, 2012
3:32 pm
GT
“I have friends of mine that will not buy foreign made cars, is that American in spirit?”
It may make them feel patriotic or whatever, but good luck in finding any car brand that’s entirely made in a foreign country.
Thulsa Doom
April 30th, 2012
3:33 pm
Jay,
Do you have any idea just how silly you sound. Aggregate demand which includes consumer demand is huge in China. Maybe many Chinese can’t afford a plasma tv but collectively as a nation they are importing high technology, heavy machinery, etc. And they can still afford to by many American products such as cokes, fast food places like kfc popping up there. And their rising middle class is in fact starting to buy more luxury type items. Your example of plasma tvs is laughable. Aggreggate demand in China is huge. Face it Jay. You got nailed to the wall on this demand issue. Demand is much more than just plasma tvs.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
April 30th, 2012
3:34 pm
Normal@3:31
So if you are afraid of Conservatives does that mean you really are a Conservative.
kayaker 71
April 30th, 2012
3:34 pm
Victor Davis Hanson is probably one of the most informed, intelligent and cogent journalists out there. If he was a liberal, Bookman would call him a genius. Same with Karl Rove. If he could get Bozo re-elected, and if he was a liberal, he would be lauded as a man for all seasons. Just depends on what side of the fence you are straddling as to your credibility.
Mighty Righty
April 30th, 2012
3:34 pm
Paul-try to engage your gray matter. The Texas study was done by professor Liman Zhou of City University of New York from 2003 through 2011. (Noye the recency) The study concluded that the temperatire on the ground increased over the area used by the wind mills and would have major effects if windmills were used in quantites projected.. That is a recent study. Compare to Golbal Warming, excuse me Climate Change (Note: the change in terms becuase even the proponents know Gloabal Warming is no longer proveable) advocates who try to tell us the climate has changed. Wow, that is a startling revealation! Climate changes! For real! How many billions of dollars have been wasted to arrive at this unique insight? From the people who can’t accurately forecast next months climate we are to believe they can not only forecast one hundred years from now, they can tell us what happened three million years ago! I mentioned the last because I recently read a study by a group of “climatologists” who said they had discovered there was an unusual high level of CO 2 three million years ago. THREE MILLION YEARS AGO! I’ll tell you what. Give me a government grant for a few hundred thousand dollars and I too will swear there is global warming, freezing, floods, earth quakes, locusts, famines, plague or even that Obama believes in Democracy. What ever the government wants, I’ll swear to it.
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
April 30th, 2012
3:34 pm
One thing you can count on with Thulsa
When she is in a hole she keeps right on digging.
Paul
April 30th, 2012
3:35 pm
afternoon, (ir)Rational
“I’ll be sure and tell my wife that some nameless person (I’m assuming) on a random blog told me that we wouldn’t be married much longer. ”
Setting up such a train of cause and effect all makes sense if you’re an ad writer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7udQSHWpL88
jewcowboy
April 30th, 2012
3:36 pm
“homeless feller over for c*ctails and hors d’oeuvres lately”
I would if they would provide me with a home address in which to send the engraved invitations.
JKL2
April 30th, 2012
3:36 pm
-(At that point, the administration had been in power for all of five weeks.)
And already had a Nobel Peace Prize to show for their great accomplishments…
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 30th, 2012
3:36 pm
Do you folks understand that private investment is 401ks, mutual funds, stock market activity? It’s not corporate investment in machinery and it’s not government investment in anything.
Casual Observer
April 30th, 2012
3:37 pm
But with all this positive economic news and charts, you would think Obama would have a 10+ point lead, seeing as to how he has brought us back from the brink of an economic apocalypse.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/150743/Obama-Romney.aspx
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
April 30th, 2012
3:37 pm
Steve – USA (I support “None Of The Above”)
April 30th, 2012
3:34 pm
Could be, but I just think Conservatives are funny…
jewcowboy
April 30th, 2012
3:37 pm
“or a bowl of mush out the backdoor for that matter…”
I learned my lesson about putting food out for strays a long time ago.
Jay
April 30th, 2012
3:38 pm
Poor Boy, I agree with much of your post.
I agree, for example, that corporations are holding a lot of cash because they can’t find profitable ways to invest it. However, that doesn’t mean that investment overall is down, because it simply isn’t. Investment is up. The numbers don’t lie.
I’ve looked at the numbers back to 2007 and earlier, and no, they don’t describe anything different than what I’ve described here. As I noted, investment collapsed during the recession, back to the levels of ‘97, and so far has only recovered to the levels of 2004 or so.
Corporate profits have been the highest in history in recent years, giving them more money than they know what to do with in an economy in which consumer demand is weak.
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
April 30th, 2012
3:38 pm
From the people who can’t accurately forecast next months climate we are to believe they can not only forecast one hundred years from now, they can tell us what happened three million years ago
But they can tell you what was happening on Earth three million years ago.
Its called Science.
Anyone who with a straight face could deny that all the crap we are pumping and have pumped into our environment the last 400 years or so has had no effect whatsoever on our climate.
Well it become tough to have a conversation after that.
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
April 30th, 2012
3:41 pm
“Thanks to President Obama, bin Laden is dead and General Motors is alive,” Vice President Joe Biden said Thursday in a campaign speech. “You have to ask yourself, if Gov. Romney had been president, could he have used the same slogan – in reverse? “
Well put.
josef
April 30th, 2012
3:41 pm
jewcowboy
jewcowboy
April 30th, 2012
3:42 pm
Mighty Righty,
“(Note: the change in terms becuase even the proponents know Gloabal Warming is no longer proveable)”
Not exactly: “A new study has shown that words matter, with more Americans saying they believe in the phenomenon when it’s referred to as climate change.The effect is particularly pronounced in Republicans.”
http://www.tgdaily.com/sustainability-features/54539-global-warming-vs-climate-change-terminology-matters
TaxPayer
April 30th, 2012
3:42 pm
Well Apple and Cisco figured out what to do with that extra cash. They’re giving it back to the job creators.
Paul
April 30th, 2012
3:43 pm
kayaker71
“Victor Davis Hanson is probably one of the most informed, intelligent and cogent journalists out there. If he was a liberal, Bookman would call him a genius.
I’m betting if Hanson were a liberal and wrote a piece like that without one shred of evidence to substantiate his conclusions, Jay would also label him a hack.
Mighty Righty
“Paul-try to engage your gray matter. ”
Oooh, sounds like I hit a nerve!
But before we go any further on this momentous point, can we clarify one itty bitty fact?
When you wrote that windmills cause climate change,I take it you do, and maybe even the folks at Fox, as well as their listeners,
now accept that man’s actions cause global climate change?
AT
April 30th, 2012
3:43 pm
Jay,
If you want to make the argument that the future of the US economy is in such great shape that corporations are holding trillions in cash…go ahead.
In view of the trillions in new debt that the US has pumped into the economy, bragging about the rise in the stock market is sort of like pointing to rising home prices about 5 years ago. There’s a big bubble a-blowin’…
Casual Observer
April 30th, 2012
3:43 pm
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
April 30th, 2012
3:41 pm
According to a recently released memo, it appears that bin Laden is dead in spite of Obama, not because of Obama.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
April 30th, 2012
3:44 pm
“Do you folks understand that private investment is 401ks, mutual funds, stock market activity? It’s not corporate investment in machinery and it’s not government investment in anything.”
Sorry. It does include Corporate Investment.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 30th, 2012
3:44 pm
And, just a guess, but I have my doubts those jumping your case here have had the homeless feller over for c*ctails and hors d’oeuvres lately…or a bowl of mush out the backdoor for that matter…
Let them eat béchamel.
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
3:45 pm
josef – Yeah, I don’t see any reason not to share with the guy living under the bridge, if I can. And when I can, I most likely will. That’s the difference between you and others here, you actually read and understand, while many of the rest, as you pointed out, simply knee-jerk out a reaction.
jewcowboy – You can send me the invitations, and I’ll drop them off under the bridge.
Paul – I actually like those commercials. I find them amusing. Their final conclusions are always priceless.
Paul
April 30th, 2012
3:46 pm
Mighty Righty
“The Texas study was done by professor Liman Zhou of City University of New York from 2003 through 2011. ”
Texas is an oil state and Big Oil underwrites all studies to discredit renewable energy. Zhou’s obviously a ChiCom who wants America to continue to rely on a-rabs for oil so we will be weak. And City University’s in New York City, so it’s a socialist-lib propaganda mill.
There. in the best tradition of climate change deniers and following the templte, I just debunked your claim that mankind causes global warming by operating windmills.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 30th, 2012
3:46 pm
Man. City scores on a headed corner in the 45th minute.
Jay
April 30th, 2012
3:47 pm
Mighty, your interpretation of the study is absolutely bogus, as the Christian Science Monitor tells us:
If it were true that the spinning blades of wind turbines increased the overall temperature of the planet, as opposed to simply redistributing thermal energy, we would have to rewrite some basic laws of physics, particularly the 2nd law of thermodynamics. This is an important distinction from the burning of fossil fuels, which produces gas that increases how much of the sun’s energy the Earth retains. In this respect, this process contributes to a globally warming climate because the source of energy (the sun) is apart from the system that is warmed (the Earth.)
Rather than inform the public’s perception on climate change, exaggerated coverage of this study has merely justified the common distrust scientists have for journalists.
Wind turbines don’t warm anything. There is no conceivable means by which they could. They apparently do redistribute heat a bit, pulling existing heat down to ground level.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0430/Don-t-believe-the-headlines.-Wind-farms-do-not-cause-global-warming
JamVet
April 30th, 2012
3:48 pm
What an end to that first half.
Great stuff…
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
3:48 pm
Kam – So your hopes for an enjoyable game haven’t panned out. Dag-nab-it.
GT
April 30th, 2012
3:48 pm
I hear ya Paul.
Paul
April 30th, 2012
3:51 pm
Mighty Righty
Here’s your postNEWS FLASH-Wind Farms Increase Global Warming
New research finds that wind farms actually warm up the surface of the land underneath them during the night, a phenomena that could put a damper on efforts to expand wind energy as a green energy solution.
Researchers used satellite data from 2003 to 2011 to examine surface temperatures across as wide swath of west Texas, which has built four of the world’s largest wind farms. The data showed a direct correlation between night-time temperatures increases of 0.72 degrees C (1.3 degrees F) and the placement of the farms.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/04/30/wind-farms-are-warming-earth-researchers-say/#ixzz1tYAZR3Tq“:
Sure sounds like you guys say man’s activities can markedly affect the earth’s climate.
All kidding aside, I’m really trying to get this straight. Is that now the position of Fox News and the Right?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 30th, 2012
3:51 pm
(ir)Rational
If I had my ‘druthers, I’d want City to win this game.
JamVet
April 30th, 2012
3:51 pm
(ir)Rational and kam, thanks for the updates. I knew some of that but not many details.
One of my few complaints with the game is the number of “dives”. I’d like to see them do what the NHL did a few years back, i.e., Rooney gets a yellow card too…
getalife
April 30th, 2012
3:53 pm
“As far as my personal role and what other folks would do, I just recommend that everybody take a look at people’s previous statements in terms of whether they thought it was appropriate to go into Pakistan and take out bin Laden,” Obama said. “I assume that people meant what they said when they said it. That’s been at least my practice. I said we would go after bin Laden if we had a clear shot at him. And I did. If there are others who have said one thing and now suggest they would do something else, then I would go ahead and let them explain it.”
Down goes willard.
One, two, three…….
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
3:53 pm
Kam – Rooney (yeah, it hurts to say this) is around my second favorite player in any league.
Jay
April 30th, 2012
3:54 pm
““Wind power is going to be a part of the solution to the climate change, air pollution and energy security problem,” said Liming Zhou, at the University of Albany in New York. “But understanding the impacts of wind farms is critical for developing management strategies to ensure the long-term sustainability of wind power.”
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
3:54 pm
So, that means, I guess I would have to hope ManU wins. (That might have been the hardest thing I’ve ever typed.)
JamVet
April 30th, 2012
3:54 pm
“Victor Davis Hanson is probably one of the most informed, intelligent and cogent journalists out there.”
And in this instance a liar.
But when did that really matter to cons if it is a con that is lying?
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
April 30th, 2012
3:55 pm
According to a recently released memo, it appears that bin Laden is dead in spite of Obama, not because of Obama.
Ummm wrong. The Admiral was just following the orders of the Commander in Chief Barrack Obama.
TaxPayer
April 30th, 2012
3:55 pm
Republicans would not question how fans work if they actually had stayed awake in science class. The teacher should have shut off the heat pump and made the room a little more uncomfortable in order to keep their attention. If a Republican read a Koch-funded article that concluded that ice melts as it gets colder, they’d believe that too.
Mighty Righty
April 30th, 2012
3:56 pm
General Motors paid zero taxes on more than 7 billion dollars in profit. Their “fair share” is zero. They are also are now building their popular 1500 pick up in Mexico and they are building a plant in China. Obamanomics includes no “trickle down.” Obamanomics includes no benefit to our economy. When the administration counts new jobs created by his administration, does he include all of the over seas jobs. We know that most of the so called green jobs went over seas. Now the bamster will meet next week with China. Wonder what he will agree to after the microphone is tuened off. Folks, keep your eyes on the left hand.
Thomas Heyward jr
April 30th, 2012
3:56 pm
What Would Krugman Do? (obviously, that is rhetorical). Supreme Keynesian Voodoo acolyte Paul Krugman and Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul go head to head on fixing the U.S. economy at 4pm ET today on Bloomberg Television’s “Street Smart.”
.
Reality versus Fantasy.
.
Run for the hills.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 30th, 2012
3:57 pm
Rooney?
Mr. Potato-head no-neck.
Fell out of the ugly tree, and hit every branch on the way down
JamVet
April 30th, 2012
3:58 pm
Compare to Golbal Warming, excuse me Climate Change (Note: the change in terms becuase even the proponents know Gloabal Warming is no longer proveable)
Fifth grade rubbish, long ago repudiated in a 2006 National Geographic.
And just for you, Righty, though this is only the forty seventh time that I’ve posted this:
Scientists often use the term “climate change” instead of global warming. This is because as the Earth’s average temperature climbs, winds and ocean currents move heat around the globe in ways that can cool some areas, warm others, and change the amount of rain and snow falling. As a result, the climate changes differently in different areas.
kayaker 71
April 30th, 2012
3:58 pm
Paul, 3:43,
“Without a shred of evidence????? What in the hell are you talking about? I’ll repeat it for you slowly. In September, 2011, the WSJ reported that the Federal Reserve stated that there was in excess of 2T dollars laying around in the non-financial corporation balance sheets all over the US. This was not R&D money, inventory, capital assets, no none of that. Only Cash and Liquid Assets. The Federal Reserve is pretty reliable Paul, wouldn’t you say. Perhaps that’s where Mr. Hanson got some of his data. But no, that’s too easy. Liberals have to make a problem out of it. Lots of Charts, Diagrams, Pie Charts and all of that BS to demonstrate that yet another conservative journalist doesn’t really know his ass from third base. You are beginning to look silly, Paul,
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
4:01 pm
Kam – I don’t like him because of how he looks. I like him because of how he plays. I’ll admit, a large portion of that comes from me being in Europe during EuroCup 2004 when he burst onto the scene as a star for England, and (since I only speak English fluently) everybody I spoke to about the games was raving about him, it kinda stuck. So, I liked him before he played for ManU, and I still like him in spite of the fact that he does now. Now, Lionel Messi, I like him because he is pretty and because he is awesome. Okay, maybe just because he is awesome. And once again, I discovered him while watching him play for Argentina in the World Cup, the fact that he plays for Barca is just an added bonus.
JamVet
April 30th, 2012
4:03 pm
The best name in today’s game?
Yaya Touré.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 30th, 2012
4:04 pm
Fans???
Reminds me of a story. A good-ole boy was over visiting his family members who happened to have an attic fan in their house. The good-ole boy was enthralled. the next time the family was at the good ole boy’s house he just had to show them his new attic fan. They looked up to see a square hole cut in the ceiling with a box fan laid across it.
True story from Gaffney , SC.
getalife
April 30th, 2012
4:05 pm
” Romney said, of then-alive terrorist leader Osama bin Laden, ““It’s not worth moving heaven and earth spending billions of dollars just trying to catch one person.”
Flip flop.
larry
April 30th, 2012
4:06 pm
The Hanson brothers probably know more about the economy than this Hanson does.