Victor Davis Hanson and the non-existent ‘investors’ strike’
Victor Davis Hanson, writing in National Review, repeats a claim that has become all too familiar. According to Hansen, investors are so afraid of and offended by the Obama administration that they have refused to invest, in effect conducting a “sit-down strike … that has paralyzed the country and has been largely ignored by the media.”
Victor Davis Hanson
Well, let’s ignore it no longer. However, before we try to assess the validity of Hanson’s argument, we should test the assertion on which it is based. Has there in fact been a sit-down strike by capital “that has paralyzed the country and has been largely ignored by the media?”
Oddly, Hansen offers not a shred of evidence or data to support that contention. He simply assumes that it is true and assumes that his readers will assume that it’s true.
It is not true. In fact, it is demonstrably false.
This is not a new meme, of course. Conservatives have been making this identical claim from the very beginning of the Obama presidency. As far back as March 9, 2009, the Wall Street Journal editorial board was telling its readers that the stock market was faltering because of what it called “a declaration of hostility toward capitalists across the economy” by the Obama administration. (At that point, the administration had been in power for all of five weeks.)
Here’s what they wrote back then, under the headline “The Obama Economy: As the Dow keeps dropping, the president is running out of people to blame”:
“From punishing business to squandering scarce national public resources, Team Obama is creating more uncertainty and less confidence — and thus a longer period of recession or subpar growth….
“The powers in Congress — unrebuked by Mr. Obama — are ridiculing and punishing the very capitalists who are essential to a sustainable recovery. The result has been a capital strike, and the return of the fear from last year that we could face a far deeper downturn. This is no way to nurture a wounded economy back to health.”
Again, that was five weeks after Obama’s inauguration. Here’s what the stock market has done since then:
Dow Jones Industrial Average, Jan. 23, 2009 to present
That’s a 59.4 percent increase, representing one of the fastest rises in the history of the Dow Jones index. Since the Dow bottomed out on March 6, 2009 — three days before the WSJ editorial was published — the index has doubled.
Quite the “capital strike,” right? And yet the meme survives.
Now, let’s take a look at a less well-known but still critical measure of investment, Gross Private Domestic Investment:
The chart illustrates the fact that since the second quarter of 2009, gross private domestic investment has risen by $564 billion, an increase of 38 percent. For comparison’s sake, GPDI increased by 24 percent in the two and a half years after the economy bottomed out in the 2001 recession under George W. Bush. (See note below)
Hanson, in other words, has based his entire argument on a “fact” that is not a fact at all, but a fabrication. When conservatives started offering this critique barely a month into Obama’s presidency, it was absurdly premature but at least had some plausible foundation in the data. Today, the data tell us that the critique is utterly without foundation, yet still it is being offered.
Why? Because it conforms to the ideology, and in the minds of the modern conservative movement, conforming to the ideology is far more important than conforming to reality.
(NOTE: That raises an obvious question. If investment is indeed rebounding, why is the economy still so troubled? The answer is, because we have so much ground to make up. By the time Obama took office, private investment had fallen to levels not seen since 1997. The Great Recession had wiped out all of the gains of the 21st century and then some. During this recovery, we’ve clawed our way back to the investment levels of 2004.
– Jay Bookman
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368 comments Add your comment
JohnnyReb
April 30th, 2012
2:23 pm
“….we just show the fact that the numbers are in the right direction.”
Yep, they are going up, just not fast enough for anyone to receive praise.
I remember
April 30th, 2012
2:23 pm
As Bookman well knows and is too dishonest to say.. the Obama recovery has been the weakest recovery following a serious recession…ever. All across America, business peope, small and large are deciding how much risk to run. In his clall warfare dominated world view in which the productive are the enemy OF COURSE they choose less risk and less investment!
getalife
April 30th, 2012
2:23 pm
ir,
Clink on the link under the comment.
Scooter
April 30th, 2012
2:23 pm
Jay makes sophisticated economic indicators and analysis seem sooooooo simple with his graphs and simplistic explanations. Well, its like he’s preserving his own ideology with confirmation bias – everyone is prone to do it. But that’s what he gets paid for.
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
2:23 pm
To be fair, GG’s post at 1:41 wasn’t claiming it was un-American to not invest solely in American companies, she was just suggesting that you should invest in companies that you didn’t feel comfortable with simply because they were American. But the parallel is there.
AT
April 30th, 2012
2:24 pm
The topic was about investors staying out of the US market and I, or Moody’s more specifically, just demonstrated one area where that is happening.
Corporations “know what to do with their money”. And for a whole host of reasons (that VDH explains), it seems that putting that money back into the US economy is not in their best interest…or they would be doing so. Come up with whatever reason you want, highest corporate taxes in the world, regulation, the decline of the dollar, but they aren’t investing those trillions here.
getalife
April 30th, 2012
2:24 pm
“Yep, they are going up, just not fast enough for anyone to receive praise.”
It will never be good enough for you cons.
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
2:24 pm
getalife – Yeah, that makes too much sense for me.
cloudodust
April 30th, 2012
2:25 pm
So, what do Facts and Statistics have in common..? The ability to convert starch to sugar would make a good analogy. It all depends rather one takes theirs with one lump or two…
getalife
April 30th, 2012
2:25 pm
Scooter,
Just the facts without bias.
Casual Observer
April 30th, 2012
2:26 pm
All this Obama love, but the poor sap is up by a few points in some polls, and down in others against Romney. With all the positives about Obama that you rats keep copying and pasting, you would think he would be up by 10+ points. Just think, the campaign hasn’t even started yet for Romney, but Obama has been campaigning for 3+ years.
getalife
April 30th, 2012
2:26 pm
ir,
Well, you do believe the gop lie that this President is failing so don’t be embarrassed.
cons have no shame.
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
2:27 pm
getalife – Thanks for telling me what I believe? I form my own opinions, but thanks anyway. Still doesn’t answer my question from before though.
GT
April 30th, 2012
2:27 pm
This capital boycott would assume the markets are all controlled by one director, not competitors but all on the same team. It reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where all the characters swore off masturbation, even placed bets they could out last the others in not doing it. Kramer wanders into Jerry’s apartment one day, where all the characters were watching a woman taking her clothes off next door, unaware she was being watched. Curious what was going on, Kramer stares out Jerry’s window, sees the flesh, immediately starts shaking, and as he turns and dashes to the door, tells the other contestants they can keep his money they win. With that the door slams and he is no longer in the room with them looking at the naked woman next door. No self disciple on earth can control a free market.
Jym Allyn
April 30th, 2012
2:27 pm
The engine for our country’s financial growth is not investment but consumerism. The “capitalist legalized thievery”by the banks and hedge-funds was more akin to a Ponzi scheme than an economic benefit to our country.
The recovery has come because consumers have been allowed to spend money and buy stuff and NOT because of the investments by the banks and major industries.
Hopefully it will be decided in court that Lehman Brothers and Bear Sterns were criminal enterprises that were able to do their crimes because of the incompetence of the SEC and the bribes to Congress and the Senate.
getalife
April 30th, 2012
2:28 pm
ir,
So, you don’t believe the gop lie that our President is failing?
Do tell ir.
mm
April 30th, 2012
2:29 pm
“especially if we also get a fiscally-responsible Senate.”
Since when have the cons been fiscally responsible? Certainly not when they are in power.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 30th, 2012
2:29 pm
“You’re so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from Longshank’s table that you’ve missed your God given right to something better.”
get a grip people
you are being hoodwinked by both parties
JamVet
April 30th, 2012
2:30 pm
Matti, word.
And they act like that is how it has always been done.
Don’t like the truth? Do like Mr. Hanson and just make up your own new one!
No worries, dated meat. I just laugh at how you consider your opinions to be immutable facts.
And the first time you post some verifiable fact, figure, link, quote, piece of data or evidence, it will be the first time ever.
“It’s not worth moving heaven and earth, spending billions of dollars just trying to catch one person [Osama bin Laden].” ~Flip (Flop) Romney, 2007.
Your soft on national security weenie is unelectable…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 30th, 2012
2:30 pm
I don’t care if Obama gets me an interest rate of 10% !
He has to go for many other policies which are detremental to this Republic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc
Jay
April 30th, 2012
2:30 pm
Come up with whatever reason you want, highest corporate taxes in the world, regulation, the decline of the dollar, but they aren’t investing those trillions here.
They aren’t investing those trillions ANYwhere, AT.
If the problem was Obama’s economic policy, as you allege, then they’d be investing those dollars in other countries with other policies. But they’re not, because the problem is a lack of consumer demand worldwide AND, again, corporate profits that are so high they literally don’t have a good place to put all the money they’re making.
James Thomas
April 30th, 2012
2:31 pm
I don’t know if what this Hanson guy says is true of false but I have learned one thing; When Jay breaks out the graphs, it’s usually in an effort to hide something.
getalife
April 30th, 2012
2:31 pm
“He has to go for many other policies which are detremental to this Republic.”
Which policies?
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
2:31 pm
getalife – I don’t believe anything, just because someone tells it to me. I check the facts out, as much as I can, and form my own opinions. Whether I believe he was a poor choice as president or not, has nothing to do with what others are saying about him. Capisce?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 30th, 2012
2:31 pm
P.S.
I bought a Treasury Bill when Carter was President I believe at a rate of 16 or 18% but look what a debacle he was !!!
Jay
April 30th, 2012
2:32 pm
Scooter, all you need to do is explain how I’m wrong. The floor is yours ….
James Thomas
April 30th, 2012
2:32 pm
I don’t think there is such a thing a a fiscally responsible politician. Period.
rightwing troll
April 30th, 2012
2:32 pm
Cons have no shame, no morals, no credibility, no facts, no details… Just shrill lies and hyperbole that is spoonfed to them and they are none the wiser for it…
Sad, pathetic, and scary… all at the same time
Paul
April 30th, 2012
2:33 pm
“Hansen offers not a shred of evidence or data to support that contention. He simply assumes that it is true and assumes that his readers will assume that it’s true.”
Judging by the comments I’ve read thus far, Hansen made a correct assumption about his readers.
JamVet
April 30th, 2012
2:33 pm
“following a serious recession”
WOO HOO!!!
It has now been elevated to the level of a SERIOUS recession!!
What next, acknowledging what the rest of humanity did four years ago and referring to it as the GREAT RECESSION?
Aka, the second greatest economic cataclysm in our nation’s long history.
Nah….
(Reagan had it worse. Or was it GeeDub?)
getalife
April 30th, 2012
2:33 pm
James,
What is Jay hiding?
The fact that the economic numbers are in the right direction?
Do tell.
rightwing troll
April 30th, 2012
2:33 pm
“He has to go for many other policies which are detremental to this Republic.”
Examples, or details please?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 30th, 2012
2:34 pm
Obama: “If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s going to be a ONE-TERM (emphasis added) proposition.” 2/2/09
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 30th, 2012
2:34 pm
jay says
They aren’t investing those trillions ANYwhere, AT.
If the problem was Obama’s economic policy, as you allege, then they’d be investing those dollars in other countries with other policies. But they’re not, because the problem is a lack of consumer demand worldwide AND, again, corporate profits that are so high they literally don’t have a good place to put all the money they’re making.
bingo
and because both parties refuse to take the painful but neccessary steps we are sliding into a lost decade………
let the banks take the hits they must
let the foreclosures roll
once those painful steps are taken
then we start growing
getalife
April 30th, 2012
2:35 pm
Paul,
“He simply assumes that it is true and assumes that his readers will assume that it’s true.”
You know I call this living in la la land.
Reality and cons parted ways when they lost.
josef
April 30th, 2012
2:36 pm
James Thomas
April 30th, 2012
2:32 pm
I don’t think there is such a thing a a fiscally responsible politician. Period.
**********
AMEN!
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
2:37 pm
So, I guess no one wants to answer my original question? Why does investing my money somewhere outside the US make me Anti-American/Un-American/un-patriotic?
Mighty Righty
April 30th, 2012
2:37 pm
NEWS FLASH-Wind Farms Increase Global Warming
New research finds that wind farms actually warm up the surface of the land underneath them during the night, a phenomena that could put a damper on efforts to expand wind energy as a green energy solution.
Researchers used satellite data from 2003 to 2011 to examine surface temperatures across as wide swath of west Texas, which has built four of the world’s largest wind farms. The data showed a direct correlation between night-time temperatures increases of 0.72 degrees C (1.3 degrees F) and the placement of the farms.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/04/30/wind-farms-are-warming-earth-researchers-say/#ixzz1tYAZR3Tq
JamVet
April 30th, 2012
2:37 pm
“The engine for our country’s financial growth is not investment but consumerism.”
That is a critical point, Jym Allyn.
And beginning with Reagan the emphasis in Washington changed so as to reward investments and punish labor/consumption.
Trickle down…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 30th, 2012
2:37 pm
http://www.gop.com/index.php/briefing/comments/the_big_fail_-_top_5_failed_obama_policies
Thulsa Doom
April 30th, 2012
2:38 pm
I wish the liberals would make up their minds on this. Sheesh. On the one hand I’ld be wealthy if I had a nickel for every time a lib has stated on here that corporate America is not hiring and not investing and creating jobs. That they are not doing their part.
And now Jay is saying that private investment is just booming under O. And if that is true as Jay purports then it sure as hell isn’t showing up in terms of economic expansion now is it?
I told you guys earlier this year when ya’ll were ecstatic over 3.3% economic growth for the last qtr of 2011 not to get too excited- that things would slow down in 2012. So what happened? Yep. We just had a revision downward of economic growth to around 2%. As Charles Barkley would say “turrible, just turrible.”
So go ahead Jay and fool your minions with another misleading graph.Because the reality is that we are still experiencing horribly anemic growth despite whatever investment graph you put up. And that is a
F
A
C
T
!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 30th, 2012
2:38 pm
Second verse same as the first:
Obama: “If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s going to be a ONE-TERM (emphasis added) proposition.”2/2/09
Jay
April 30th, 2012
2:39 pm
So, I guess no one wants to answer my original question? Why does investing my money somewhere outside the US make me Anti-American/Un-American/un-patriotic?
Well, investing outside your country, where you get lower returns than you would at home, makes it seem as though you have problems with your country.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 30th, 2012
2:40 pm
Blah, blah, blah Jimmy Carter blah, blah blah.
Posting like a con in three easy lessons. — $19.95, but wait! Act now, and I’ll double the offer.*
*(Just pay separate processing and handling)
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
2:40 pm
James Thomas/josef – I would think that would be something everybody can agree on. I think the best method for getting things done is having the executive branch controlled by one party and the legislative branch controlled by the other, therefore forcing them to meet somewhere close to the middle and work things out. For an example, see the time period between 1994 and 2000. There were some hiccups, but I feel like for the most part, stuff got done well.
getalife
April 30th, 2012
2:40 pm
President Obama: “Not only saving this country from a great depression, not only saving the auto industry, but putting in place a system in which we’re going to start lowering health care costs and you’re never going to go bankrupt because you get sick or somebody in your family gets sick.” (CBS’ “60 Minutes,” 12/11/11)
Good stuff scout.
Thanks.
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
2:41 pm
Jay – Or, it makes me a bad investor/someone who listens to bad advice. I don’t see the correlation between investing my money as I see fit, and having a problem with my country.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 30th, 2012
2:41 pm
jay you said
Well, investing outside your country, where you get lower returns than you would at home, makes it seem as though you have problems with your country.
what about people that buy products not made in the US? does that apply to all the apple cultists?
Illegal Alien
April 30th, 2012
2:42 pm
Is Romney better off now than in 2008?
Still waiting.
josef
April 30th, 2012
2:42 pm
irRational
“So, I guess no one wants to answer my original question? Why does investing my money somewhere outside the US make me Anti-American/Un-American/un-patriotic?”
It doesn’t make you any of the things you listed, but it does run counter to taking care of your own, imauo
mm
April 30th, 2012
2:42 pm
“When Jay breaks out the graphs, it’s usually in an effort to hide something.”
Ah, rightwing logic. Facts bad, lies good.
And mighty righty, what do you expect from Fox News? If you expect someone to click on your links, you might want to hide the rightwing url’s in your links.
getalife
April 30th, 2012
2:43 pm
ir,
Shutting down government was not a hiccup.
It was a newt disaster for your party.
I can’t believe your party still listens to the newt and used his unpatriotic agenda.
Paul
April 30th, 2012
2:43 pm
MIghty Righty 2:37
Why do climate change skeptics ridicule data when it shows evidence of man’s impact on climate, but if it’s something dealing with renewable energy they accept the data as written on stone tablets and delivered from Mount Sinai?
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
2:43 pm
josef – You’re not one of them, but several people here, including Jay, have made those claims today. I’m trying to ask them to defend that, or explain their rationale.
Jay
April 30th, 2012
2:44 pm
yeah, mm, that one in particular cracked me up.
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
2:46 pm
getalife – I never listened to Newt for anything. I was too young to care then, and old enough to know he is a fool now. I had honestly forgotten about that, but I’m looking at it from a different perspective. If you think about it, we ended Clinton’s presidency with a projected surplus. That didn’t come about because of one party’s contributions, it came about because Clinton was able to successfully (for the most part) work with Congress and get things done. From my point of view.
josef
April 30th, 2012
2:46 pm
irRational
I want a viable third, if not even viable fourth and fifth, parties. Cutting mutually advantageous deals at the expense of the citizenry would be a lot less easy….
Thulsa Doom
April 30th, 2012
2:46 pm
“But they’re not, because the problem is a lack of consumer demand worldwide”- Jay
Yes. Of course. Consumer demand is weak in China, India, Singapore, Hong Kong,etc.
getalife
April 30th, 2012
2:47 pm
ir,
Lets end the willard lie that this President economic policies have failed.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 30th, 2012
2:47 pm
Chelsea — 6
QPR ——- 1
Arsenal —— 1
Stoke City —1
Just sayin’.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 30th, 2012
2:48 pm
In his clall warfare dominated world view in which the productive are the enemy OF COURSE they choose less risk and less investment!
I remember, didn’t read the piece, did you? That’s exactly what the charts are not showing.
getalife
April 30th, 2012
2:48 pm
ir,
Yes, we have balanced our budget and had a surplus.
Then what happened?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 30th, 2012
2:49 pm
Yep …………. he’s sure working hard at “being” President !
Headline: “Obama Has Already Held More Fundraisers Than the Last Five Presidents Combined”
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/297293/obama-has-already-held-more-fundraisers-last-five-presidents-combined-charles-c-w-cook
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
2:49 pm
josef – I would love to see that type of expansion, and hope to in my life time, but I suspect it will be towards the end of my life before anything like that truly happens.
jewcowboy
April 30th, 2012
2:50 pm
Will Victor Davis Hanson have 6′ tall $ topiary’s at his funeral? Will ragnar danneskjold have C$ topiary at his?
getalife
April 30th, 2012
2:51 pm
scout,
So?
Jay
April 30th, 2012
2:51 pm
Gee, Thulsa. Step up your game.
With GDP per capita of $5,200 in China and $1,500 in India, consumer demand IS very weak in those countries. Pretty elementary, really.
And Singapore (pop. 5 million) and Hong Kong are too small to affect global economies.
Mighty Righty
April 30th, 2012
2:51 pm
Paul-One is an eight year study of a measurable change in the environment. The other is sepeculation based on reading tea leaves.
kayaker 71
April 30th, 2012
2:52 pm
“If I have not turned this economy around during my first term, I don’t deserve to be re-elected.”
Bozo
“When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods but in favors; when you see that men get rich more easily by graft than by work and your laws no longer protect you against them, but protect them against you, you may know that your society is doomed”
Ayn Rand
mm
April 30th, 2012
2:52 pm
Jay,
I see this in all righties, not just on this blog. They are now living in some bizarro world where facts are lies and lies are facts. There’s something missing in them. Maybe a functioning brain.
From the backyards of America, to the steaming cesspools that are the Sunday morning talk shows, they spout their lies. Our media has totally failed us in an attempt to try to make this election close.
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
2:53 pm
Kam – Chelsea 1 Stoke City 0 (at Stamford Bridge and with Stoke City down to 10) just sayin. Also, isn’t QPR just 5 points in the goal differential away from relegation?
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 30th, 2012
2:54 pm
Some of you can’t seem to tell the difference between private investment in stock market stocks and corporate investment in people, machinery, etc.
Investing in the stock market doesn’t necessarily correlate to increased output, hiring, etc. Investing in machinery, employees, etc, usually does correlate to that.
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
2:54 pm
getalife – Well, for one thing the .com bubble burst, then we got attacked. But I suspect you’re looking for something along the lines of, “well, we, ah, elected Bush.” But that kinda just makes my point for me.
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
April 30th, 2012
2:55 pm
Toss Up
Arizona (11)
Colorado (9)
Florida (29)
Iowa (6)
Missouri (10)
Nevada (6)
New Hampshire (4)
North Carolina (15)
Ohio (18)
Pennsylvania (20)
Virginia (13)
Those are your toss up states this next election. Cheesy Grits has to win almost all of them to win.
Obama just needs to pick off one or two.
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
April 30th, 2012
2:56 pm
then we got attacked.
Who did we get attacked by ?
Hint : It wasn’t Saddam .
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
2:56 pm
Pass the Cheesy Grits – No sh*t Sherlock.
kayaker 71
April 30th, 2012
2:56 pm
mm,
Looks like you have become the latest Bookman sycophant. You remind me of one of those plastic birds in the back windows of cars. And your drama?…… off the charts. You might land a job on the Today Show just any time now.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 30th, 2012
2:57 pm
Chelsea 1 Stoke City 0 (at Stamford Bridge and with Stoke City down to 10) just sayin.
Yep. That’s also the game that got JT in hot water and he is facing charges of saying poopie headed things about someone else’s race. It’s the game that set the tone for our season, and I wish RA had fired A V-B on the spot immediately afterward.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
April 30th, 2012
2:57 pm
Ir
let me help you…..
I said corporations, not YOU.
I think about investors and what cowards some of them can be.
The buy into corporations and then sell off and scatter like cockroaches if the CEO farts.
What’s your priority? Yourself? Or All of us?
AT
April 30th, 2012
2:58 pm
Jay:”corporate profits that are so high they literally don’t have a good place to put all the money they’re making”
So given the choice, they are putting it off shore, instead of the US economy. Why exactly would they do that? Sound’s like a sit-out to me.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 30th, 2012
2:58 pm
Don’t you cons have some women’s issues to go beat up on?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 30th, 2012
2:58 pm
Don’t Mess With Marines “Punks” !!!
http://www2.wnct.com/news/2012/apr/15/51/police-two-intruders-shot-and-killed-burglary-atte-ar-2165808/
Paul
April 30th, 2012
2:58 pm
Mighty Righty
“Paul-One is an eight year study of a measurable change in the environment. The other is sepeculation based on reading tea leaves.”
Stone tablets vs tea leaves.
That explains it -
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
2:59 pm
Kam – Well, that answers my question from the other day about why JT was in trouble. I would assume you’re watching the Manchester Derby currently? How do you decide which version of evil to root for in that match? Oh, and if you’re watching, keep me updated.
Thulsa Doom
April 30th, 2012
2:59 pm
Gee, Thulsa. Step up your game.
With per capita income of $5,200 in China and $1,500 in India, consumer demand IS very weak in those countries. Pretty elementary, really.
Jay,
Well with that kind of weak arse logic now I have to shred your ridiculously weak argument. Per capita income may be low in China and India but when you factor in population and hence overall consumer demand due to enormous populations and enormous economies(China’s economy is now larger than Europe’s largest economy Germany) then you realize just how absurd your argument is. Gawd that was easy.
Others can’t see through just how weak your use of statistics to make an argument is. But Doomy can and just blew that one out of the water.
JamVet
April 30th, 2012
3:00 pm
“One is an eight year study of a measurable change in the environment. The other is sepeculation based on reading tea leaves.”
This is the kind of post that would not pass muster in the ninth grade…
Casual Observer
April 30th, 2012
3:00 pm
DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz was on Fox News last night, and Brett Baier asked her about the Dem-controlled Senate’s failure to pass a budget for a thousand days plus three months. The short answer from Wasserman Schultz was “because the Romney-Ryan budget is so horrifying we’re incapable of moving”
Was Mitt elected President or to Congress and I missed it?
More excuses from the left.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 30th, 2012
3:00 pm
Third time is a charm !!!
“Obama: “If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s going to be a ONE-TERM (emphasis added) proposition.” 2/2/09″
Moderate Line
April 30th, 2012
3:02 pm
The chart illustrates the fact that since the second quarter of 2009, gross private domestic investment has risen by $564 billion, an increase of 38 percent. For comparison’s sake, GPDI increased by 24 percent in the two and a half years after the economy bottomed out in the 2001 recession under George W. Bush.
A little misleading since under Bush the low GDI was in 2001 4th quarter. We were already at a new peak in 8 quarters. The recent recession we are sill 12% below the previous peak 19 quarters later. Also the total drop in investmet was 12% in the 2001 recession whereas the recent recession was 36.4%.
Now I don’t really buy the Republican arguement but I don’t believe Jay’s argument is much better. I believe the economy is not growing as it should because demand is low from decrease wealth and less borrowing ie. demand. However, investment is at the same level as 2004. Under Bush we had 16 quarters of investment over the present level.
In otherwords showing the increase in investment during Obama is misleading people to think investment is good when in reality it is still very bad.
jewcowboy
April 30th, 2012
3:02 pm
“When you see that in order to produce…blah blah blah”
I was tempted to post all 70 pages of John Galt’s mind numbingly torturous and pretentious screed from Atlas to show how affected it truly is…but I’m not that much an a-hole.
Instead I’ll just leave you with the only quote from Rand worth posting: “Mister, there’s nothing I’ve got to do except die”
Jay
April 30th, 2012
3:02 pm
So given the choice, they are putting it off shore, instead of the US economy. Why exactly would they do that? Sound’s like a sit-out to me.
No AT, your point and your argument was that they’re NOT putting it offshore or anywhere else for that fact. They’re keeping it in-house. If you are now changing the game, you should say so.
And as the charts above demonstrate, investment has risen sharply here in the United States. In fact, I would bet that those numbers are higher than in any other industrial economy in the world for the period in question.
Paul
April 30th, 2012
3:03 pm
Scout
That reporter sure has a crush on Marines.
Never heard a reporter say “the teacher then shot…” or “the program manager then shot” or “the truck driver then shot…”
Moderate Line
April 30th, 2012
3:04 pm
Link to data.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/GPDI
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
3:04 pm
GG – Well, for starters, you did make the correlation @ 1:41 when you were talking to Rags. Second, my personal priorities are to myself and my wife first. With her coming first over myself. I don’t care what anyone thinks of me because of that, I would be willing to bet, no matter what you say here, that with very few exceptions, all of you (and in fact pretty much everyone in the world) is like that to some degree or another. In the pursuit of my interests, I may end up helping someone/a lot of someones out, but I’m taking care of myself first, and others later.
Jay
April 30th, 2012
3:05 pm
A little misleading since under Bush the low GDI was in 2001 4th quarter.
And that’s the point at which I began counting, Moderate, just so it would NOT be misleading.
Common Sense
April 30th, 2012
3:05 pm
Using this sort of faulty logic, you can also conclude we have a home buyer’s strike, and a worker’s strike, since home prices are down, and more people have dropped out of the work force.
Thanks for making it such a simple conclusion, Jay.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 30th, 2012
3:05 pm
Well, that answers my question from the other day about why JT was in trouble.
No, JT got red-carded against Barca for kneeing someone in the back (What a wanker)
And I was wrong — it was our first game against QPR that JT said some racist things.
I would assume you’re watching the Manchester Derby currently?
Just turned it on ’cause I didn’t know about it, thanks.
How do you decide which version of evil to root for in that match?
0-0 draw with 22 red cards equally distributed against both teams.
Oh, and if you’re watching, keep me updated.
0-0 in the 6th minute.
Jay
April 30th, 2012
3:06 pm
“The recent recession we are sill 12% below the previous peak 19 quarters later. Also the total drop in investmet was 12% in the 2001 recession whereas the recent recession was 36.4%.”
Which is exactly the point I made in the footnote.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 30th, 2012
3:06 pm
but I’m taking care of myself first, and others later.
That’s obvious.
(ir)Rational
April 30th, 2012
3:08 pm
Kam – 0-0 draw with 22 red cards…that would possibly be the most epic game in history. And JT is most definitely a wanker, and that is about the nicest thing I find myself capable of saying about him. Thanks for the update, and you’re welcome for reminding you about the game.