The real student-loan scandal
Charlie Harper, writing at Peach Pundit, notes the worrisome parallels between the college-loan situation and the housing-loan bubble just before it burst a few years ago:
“Virtually anyone that applied got a loan. There was no consideration given to how the loan would be repaid. No calculations for repayment ability were required. Most borrowers overestimated the value of their purchase and underestimated the income that would be available in the future to retire the debt. The government subsidized an unlimited amount of borrowing, and then the problem was so large that when an alarm was sounded, too many people were invested in the status quo that the system could not be changed until it was too late.”
There’s a lot of truth to that. Outstanding student loan debt hit an estimated $1 trillion this week. And according to the most recent numbers available, more and more students are defaulting on those loans. The annual default rate has risen from 6.7 percent in 2007 to 8.8 percent in 2009, and today, three years later, it’s undoubtedly higher still. In this economy, it can’t be easy coming out of college with a degree and $60,000 or $100,000 in debt.
However, it’s important to point out that college graduates with large debt aren’t really the problem. The larger problem is the predatory for-profit schools that have popped up around the country to try to separate students from their college-loan money and in the process deliver little in the way of useful education.
The industry is large and growing rapidly. During the 2008-2009 academic year, those schools collected $4.3 billion in Pell grants and $20 billion in federal loans. That’s more than double the amount that they received as recently as 2005.
More importantly, the default rates on those loans are very high and rising.
In 2009, just 5.2 percent of students who had attended four-year public schools such as Georgia State or the University of Georgia defaulted on their loans. Just 4.5 percent of those who had attended non-profit private colleges defaulted.
However, the default rate among those attending four-year for-profit proprietary schools was 15.4 percent. Between 2007 and 2009, the number of students from for-profit proprietary schools who defaulted on their loans increased by 65 percent.
(It’s important to note that some for-profit schools do a good job for their students and have a relatively low default rate. If you have questions, the U.S. Department of Education maintains a database that allows you to check the default rate for each institution.)
Why are the default rates among for-profit schools generally so high? As the schools point out, part of it can be explained by the fact they serve non-traditional students. That’s a valid point. But in far too many cases, those students don’t get the education or the degree that they pay for and end up tens of thousands of dollars in debt to the taxpayer without the means to repay it.
The Education Trust, a Washington think tank specializing in higher-ed issues, released a report in November 2010 noting that just 22 percent of full-time students who began a four-year program at for-profit schools actually got a degree within six years. And while some schools do better, some do much much worse.
To many of these schools, the guaranteed federal loan programs are simply a cash cow to be milked. They exist solely because of taxpayers’ money. So in an effort to bring at least some rationality to the industry, the federal government instituted the so-called “90-10″ rule. Colleges are allowed to collect no more than 90 percent of their revenue from federal sources, leaving 10 percent to be generated through actual tuition payments and other private sources.
It’s a good rule. But what did the proprietary schools do in response? In many cases, they created their own, private in-house student loan programs to provide that missing 10 percent. According to a 2011 study by the National Consumer Law Center, the schools finance those loans to their own students knowing full well that many will never be repaid. And they don’t care:
“As documented in this report, the default rates on most institutional loans are shockingly high. The schools seem to view these loans more as “loss leaders” to keep the federal dollars flowing… Schools make unaffordable loans as a way of filling up the 10% category with vapor revenues derived from loans that will never be repaid.”
(The NCLC also points out the great discrepancy in executive pay at for-profit colleges, noting that “the chairman and CEO of the for-profit education company Strayer Education was paid $41.9 million in 2009, 26 times the compensation of the highest-paid president of a traditional university.)
Again, it’s important to stress that these colleges are not surviving in the private marketplace on private money. They are preying on federal dollars funneled through their students. Nonetheless, the issue has become caught up in the ideological warfare in Congress. The Republican-led House has generally taken the position that trying to reduce abuse of federal student-loan programs by proprietary schools amounts to government regulation of private enterprise.
In addition, the proprietary-school industry spent some $6 million in lobbying in 2010 alone. It has also been active on the campaign finance front. According to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune the industry contributed more than $100,000 in 2010 alone to U.S. Rep. John Kline, R-Minn., chairman of the House Education Committee.
Most of the media attention on this issue has focused on the plight of middle-class kids. Politicians, including President Obama, are also playing to that demographic for votes. But in return for their debt, those students are at least getting good educations from good schools. They at least have a fighting chance to turn that education into a career that will allow them to repay that debt.
But millions of others who are largely invisible to the rest of us are being played for suckers, with Uncle Sam as a silent financier in the scam.
– Jay Bookman
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354 comments Add your comment
JamVet - Stay ignorant, my friends...
April 26th, 2012
12:51 pm
Go ask your darling Occupy Movement students with dumb degrees in African American Studies, Cultural Strategic Studies, etc. how many relevant jobs are available to them.
Quit spitting on veterans, school teachers, nuns, policemen and housewives, racist…
Jm
April 26th, 2012
12:53 pm
If an individual doesn’t need the government involved in making an abortion decision, surely they’re capable of making their own decision about some education spending
After all, abortion is a life and death decision
Here we’re just talking about what kind of school you go to
Man up liberals
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 26th, 2012
12:53 pm
Sooth
You must be running an older version of FF, cause it took me all morning to figure out how to do it on FF 12.0 and none of it had to do with your instructions last night.
But you’re right, a meebo free world is wunnerful
Jay
April 26th, 2012
12:53 pm
“There’s no doubt that many of the for profit private schools are doing a poor job. It ought to be obvious, however, that the student debt bubble is being driven by public and private non-profit institutions. They account for 89% of the students and 94% of the money sloshing through higher education.”
Poor Boy, I strongly disagree.
First of all, it’s not a bubble if the debt can and will be repaid. As has been documented, most students from public and private non-profit schools are repaying their debts. The annual default rate for private for-profit schools, on the other hand, is two to three times larger. In total, some 43 percent of loans made to students at private for-profit schools are in default.
In addition, for purposes of this discussion the fact that students at private for-profit schools account for merely 11 percent of total students is not relevant in the least.
What’s relevant is that the 11 percent in question account for some 28 percent of those taking loans, and some 47 percent of those defaulting. Both of those numbers are growing very quickly. Those are the numbers that matter.
barking frog
April 26th, 2012
12:54 pm
All education should be
free.
mm
April 26th, 2012
12:59 pm
Republicans don’t care if government dollars are used to help out businesses. It’s only when government dollars are used to help out people that they have a problem with the spending.
Along those same lines, they want to pay for everything with spending cuts, unless it’s a tax cut. Then they don’t care about the ensuing deficit.
Soothsayer
April 26th, 2012
12:59 pm
“All education should be free.”
You know, frog, if we could just figure out a way to get really stupid people to pay for people with some brains to go to college, that would be a wonderful thing.
Oh, wait! We already have that — it’s called the Georgia Lottery!
RB from Gwinnett
April 26th, 2012
1:00 pm
It’s becoming clear that by doing the right things, showing up for wot, paying your taxes, paying your mortgage, etc., you’ll be rewarded by paying the share dumped on the taxpayers by all the deadbeats too. If your identity doesn’t get stolen and your bank account drained by another deadbeat.
And half of the nation thiks that’s ok and even chastises you for claiming its not right.
This nation is in decline in many many ways.
ty webb
April 26th, 2012
1:02 pm
come on people, lay off the occupiers, despite their penchant for spreading feces and raping people, they’re not all bad.
JamVet - Stay ignorant, my friends...
April 26th, 2012
1:03 pm
frog, for a whole boatload of countries, that is the case.
Argentina
Barbados
Brazil
Belgium
Croatia
Denmark
Finland
Greece
Hungary
Kenya
Malta
Mauritius
Morocco
Norway
Scotland
Slovakia
Sri Lanka
Sweden
Trinidad and Tobago
Brunei
Turkey
Oman
Saudi Arabia
Uruguay
Hmmm, kinda like healthcare for all citizens, where most industrialized nations do that.
Amazing what nations can do when they don’t blow as much money as the rest of the planet combined on their war machines…
JamVet - Stay ignorant, my friends...
April 26th, 2012
1:04 pm
come on people, lay off the occupiers, despite their penchant for spreading feces and raping people, they’re not all bad.
Quit spitting on veterans, school teachers, nuns, policemen and housewives, liar…
Jefferson
April 26th, 2012
1:05 pm
RB- Life is Good
Mick
April 26th, 2012
1:07 pm
Sourpuss of the day award…goes to….donovan…never anything positive or happy in that world…may I suggest a sunshine superman???
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
April 26th, 2012
1:08 pm
JamVet – Stay ignorant, my friends…
April 26th, 2012
1:04 pm
Hear, hear!
ty webb
April 26th, 2012
1:10 pm
“liar”?
okay, correction, they’re all bad.
JamVet - Stay ignorant, my friends...
April 26th, 2012
1:11 pm
Normal, the tds of this country are reduced to contrived, wholesale slurs and lies.
Limbaugh, Hannity and O’Reilly have taught them well…
Richard
April 26th, 2012
1:12 pm
Jay,
I don’t agree with you on this. Mostly because a default rate doesn’t account for students that move back home into their parents house in order to make the debt payments. Defaulting is a very minor part of the problem.
The problem with student loans is that the ability of any student to get a loan for the full cost ensures that schools don’t need to attempt any form of cost control in order to compete for customers.
Ironically, the government has a fantastic model for helping students pay for college (that I wish private firms would emulate), the ROTC. Students can have their education payed for on the condition that they work for the payer for some length of time.
Now imagine if a company like GE did this? “We’ll pay for your degree on the condition that you work for us for 3 years afterwards and intern with our company during the summers.” They get to train their own future workforce, the student/parent has less debt, there’s more disposable income…everybody wins.
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
April 26th, 2012
1:13 pm
JamVet – Stay ignorant, my friends…
April 26th, 2012
1:11 pm
Like they say…it’s easier than thinking…
Erwin's cat
April 26th, 2012
1:13 pm
It’s not just the “for profits” that are a problem…the State University system is gaming the system as well… both in student loans and HOPE…free money is free money
Looney Bin
April 26th, 2012
1:16 pm
Isn’t it funny – when the topic comes to providing people with assistance you hear some types saying they should simply pick themselves up by their bootstraps and take responsibility for their own situation. Yet for other things like jobs or cheap gas, these same folks demand to know why Obama hasn’t provided them with jobs or cheap gas.
Just goes to show that not everything is black and white, but rather so many shades of gray…
Scooter
April 26th, 2012
1:17 pm
If a grown individual decides to take out a loan to attend a “predatory” for profit school, it is the individuals responsibility, not the schools. Why is it so often professed that “predatory profit seeking” absolves individuals and the government of their responsibility?
iRun
April 26th, 2012
1:17 pm
Hmm, and the cost of education is so high now, even at state schools. Yet, professors are having pay freezes and furlough days. Where is that money going?
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2012
1:20 pm
Jobless or overextended college graduates aren’t even allowed to declare bankruptcy — a privilege that’s extended to every reckless investor and mismanaged corporation in the nation. Once they finally find work, college graduates face years of garnished wages to repay the loans that funded their often-overpriced educations. If they haven’t repaid that debt by the time they grow old — a very real possibility at the cost of a college education today — they’ll even be forced to surrender part of their Social Security benefits.
Wow. Their social security can even be tapped to pay back those loans. Talk about being owned. Yet other people at least have the option of bankruptcy court. Unless you’re someone like Tom Graves or Chip Rogers, et al. Then all you need is someone stupid enough to “loan” you the money.
Tundra Dude
April 26th, 2012
1:24 pm
If they don’t want government regulation, then don’t take government money. That would solve everything very quickly.
BINGO!
kayaker 71
April 26th, 2012
1:27 pm
Just watched that ridiculous You Tube video of Bozo on the Jimmy Fallon show. The curtain parts, the Messiah steps forward to raucous applause from who else….. a audience full of young people. The image of “cool”. That’s about all that many of these young voters pay any attention to any more. Hell, all he needed was his pants down around the crack in his butt, a new ball cap put on a little to the side complete with price tag, some $300 sneakers but not tied with shoe strings, a gold chain or two and some ebonics lessons. And that’s cool. This empty suit has nothing else.
Poor Boy from Alabama
April 26th, 2012
1:27 pm
JB @ 12:53
I’m going to respectfully disagree on a couple of points:
1. Many analysts think there is a student debt bubble. Even Consumer Reports is getting in on the act. Their May 2012 edition includes a story titled “Student debt: Your threat; It can have an impact on the entire economy” As you pointed out, the amount of student debt outstanding is now close to $1 trillion. It actually exceeds the amount of outstanding credit card debt.
2. A recent Associated Press story noted that almost half of new college graduates are either unemployed or under employed. Unless many of these unemployed and underemployed new graduates find good jobs, it’s highly likely that many of them will default on their loans.
3. Students at public and private non-profit schools receive the bulk of federal student loans. While it’s true that students at for-profit schools tend to borrow more money, there are fewer of them (See Table 12). As you pointed out, they account for less than one third of those receiving federal loans.
What do you think happens to the 46% of college students who attend 4-year public institutions and the 35% of students who attend private non-profit institutions that don’t graduate in six years? How do they pay back their loans? I doubt that many of them end up in high paying professions or that they make substantially more than the kids who didn’t graduate from private for-profit institutions. They may have smaller loan balances, but they represent a much bigger risk pool, both in terms of the dollars outstanding and the number of former students.
Any way you slice it, higher education is not performing especially well these days.
JamVet - Stay ignorant, my friends...
April 26th, 2012
1:28 pm
Normal, the neocons have perfected the art-form of playing stupid. It is their sheer hatred of liberals, Democrats, foreigners and non-Republicans that drives them to make up these juvenile stereotypes.
How many Occupy protesters have there been in dozens if not hundreds of US cities over these many months?
Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands?
And exactly how many rapes have been confirmed that were committed by the Occupy protesters?
How many cop cars defecated on?
How many crimes in total?
A MINISCULE percentage.
But to these willfully ignorant rubes, THAT is the ONLY thing that they can puke up.
Not the patriotic, American duty to engage in what Thomas Paine lauded as Civil Disobedience. Not the obvious injustice and crushing of the working class in this country for four straight decades. Not the horrific anti-American plutocracy and accumulation of more and more and more wealth into fewer and fewer and fewer hands. Not the whole sell sell off of our sacred sovereignty to BIG multinational business. Not the plethora of legitimate reasons to say “NO MORE!”
Feces and alleged rapes. That is what td and the GOP is reduced to…
Mad Max
April 26th, 2012
1:29 pm
The Republican-led House has generally taken the position that trying to reduce abuse of federal student-loan programs by proprietary schools amounts to government regulation of private enterprise
And what did the Pelosi led House do about it when they had control? I don’t know the answer, but since we still have the problem, I assume they also took the Ostrich approach.
carlosgvv
April 26th, 2012
1:30 pm
There are some countries that give all their high-school students extensive apptitude and IQ tests. The best and brightest are sent to various universities at no cost and are allowed to learn as much as they can. These countries would not DREAM of letting this kind of talent go unused because of college costs. Unfortunately. the US is not one of these countries.
Mary Elizabeth
April 26th, 2012
1:31 pm
To drive home the points from my earlier post:
“As documented in this report, the default rates on most institutional loans are shockingly high. The schools seem to view these loans more as ‘loss leaders’ to keep the federal dollars flowing…”
“(The NCLC also points out the great discrepancy in executive pay at for-profit colleges, noting that ‘the chairman and CEO of the for-profit education company Strayer Education was paid $41.9 million in 2009, 26 times the compensation of the highest-paid president of a traditional university.’)”
And from the link above:
” ‘Regulators Must Provide Aggressive Oversight of Institutional Loans’
Institutional loan products have generally fallen through regulatory cracks. Regulators,
both state and federal, must evaluate institutional loan programs and enforce relevant laws. . .
Federal and state regulators should review institutional loan programs for possible violations of unfair and deceptive consumer protection laws.”
http://www.studentloanborrowerassistance.org/blogs/wp-content/www.studentloanborrowerassistance.org/uploads/File/proprietary-schools-loans.pdf
=========================================
Without proper governmental regulation, the housing bubble was created and crashed. Without proper legislative oversight, two wars were started in the past decade, with the funding for them unaccounted for. Without proper governmental regulation, tax dollars will continue to flow to private universities, via students loans which may, knowingly, end up being defaulted by those same private universities. As was emphasized, in the article above, this situation is similar to the unregulated housing bubble.
Both a result of a culture whose priority has become greed.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 26th, 2012
1:32 pm
I don’t know the answer…
I’ll act shocked and awed if it will make you feel any better.
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
1:34 pm
barking frog
April 26th, 2012
12:54 pm
All education should be
free.
_______
That was idea of Huey (The Kingfish) Long. You are not from Lousiania are you. You name should have been a clue. Lot’s of frogs down there.
269 more days
April 26th, 2012
1:35 pm
amvet
It is a good thing that polical party’s aren’t classified as a “race”, because if they were you would be one hell of a “racist”
godless heathen©
April 26th, 2012
1:35 pm
I saw the libbie hero Rachel Maddow interview the Sec of Ed, Arne Duncan, on her show. Her first question to Arne was, “Why has the cost of college tuition risen so much, faster even than health care costs?” I perked up, thinking, “Great question!”. Alas, ol’ Arne, answered something about the States needing to step and pay their share of the costs and loan rates need to remain low. Totally dodged the question, and I wonder why he didn’t want to answer it. But did good old tough interviewer Rachel call him on his dodge and make him give an answer to the question? Of course not – Arne is on her side of the aisle.
They BOTH suck
April 26th, 2012
1:36 pm
Kayaker
Would Leno and Lettermen be ok?
in other words
April 26th, 2012
1:36 pm
folks, if you get degrees in fields such as poetry, you will be moving back in with mom and dad or working a low wage job at McDonalds.
Mad Max
April 26th, 2012
1:36 pm
JamVet – Stay ignorant, my friends…
I think there were probably the same number of similar issues concrening the tea party stereotypes dreamt up by people on the same blogs so I don’t think it’s a “neo-con” thing. It’s more a gossip type thing. Everything gets exaggerated by people pushing their own agenda and trying to smear and demean other “non believers” (left or right)
I remember
April 26th, 2012
1:37 pm
Not only did some want the government to be in the business of guaranteeing and subsidizing student loans, but they also think the government should regulate which businesses might be allowed to benefit from thier largesse.
I say get out of all public guarantees of student loans and force the schools to manage tuition to reasonable levels. Student loan guarantees ( and the HOPE for that matter) have been a massive force to encourage ever higher tuition and ever more boated universitites.
Mad Max
April 26th, 2012
1:37 pm
Kamchak – Thanks!
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
1:39 pm
godless heathen©
April 26th, 2012
1:35 pm
____
The idea of expecting a pol to answer a question seems somehow anti_American.
They BOTH suck
April 26th, 2012
1:41 pm
It will be ok godless……….. It will be ok
Just tune into Hanitty on Fox or listen to one of numerous right leaning talk shows if you want to see softballs thrown from the other side
It goes on from all sides…….. I promise it does……… Just have to be willing to call it out when it is on YOUR side
They BOTH suck
April 26th, 2012
1:42 pm
Mad max @ 1:36
Great point
Bruno
April 26th, 2012
1:42 pm
Jay–In reading your article, I was reminded that I did receive a Pell Grant back in the day, so I can’t claim to have never received direct govt assistance. I don’t recall the amount, I think it was in the $1000 to $2000 range per year. Of course, when I consider the amount of taxes I’ve paid since then, I would have to guess that the Feds have gotten the better end of the deal.
Of course, when I attended Harvey Mudd College, the tuition + room and board was approximately $8000 per year. Not bad for an Ivy League level school. Now, nearly 34 years later, tuition + room and board is about $58,000. I believe most of the profs are pulling down $200,000 per year each.
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2012
1:44 pm
Student Loan Asset-Backed Securities have the appropriate acronym, SLABs, because they cling to the indebted until they’re on one.
Bruno
April 26th, 2012
1:44 pm
I saw the libbie hero Rachel Maddow interview the Sec of Ed, Arne Duncan, on her show. Her first question to Arne was, “Why has the cost of college tuition risen so much, faster even than health care costs?”
heathen–I don’t know the average salary for profs around the country, but $200,000 per year eats up a lot of tuition.
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
1:46 pm
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2012
1:44 pm
______
The feds can collect by seizing tax refunds and garishment of wages. And the loans can’t be erased by bankruptcy. They can stay there a long time.
Don't Tread
April 26th, 2012
1:47 pm
“everybody should get a college degree” mentality + grade inflation in high school + third party pay + liberal control of public schools + too many liberals in government = this mess.
But of course, the real problem is “certain people have too much freedom”, and the solution is always “take away some freedom”, just like any other subject on this blog.
They BOTH suck
April 26th, 2012
1:47 pm
Bruno
Not speaking for profs as a whole, but do you think Harvey pays their profs 200k because they could go elsewhere? another high profile school or even the private sector
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 26th, 2012
1:47 pm
Bruno
Did you ever solve the meebo problem?
If not, I have the solution.
Bruno
April 26th, 2012
1:47 pm
“Smokin’ cigarettes and watching Captain Kangaroo, don’t tell me I’ve got nothing to do”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s8nRL2bPCU
If any of you haven’t heard this song, it’s hilarious ^^^^^^^^
Bruno
April 26th, 2012
1:48 pm
Did you ever solve the meebo problem?
If not, I have the solution.
No luck so far, Kam. Lay it on me…….
And thanks. we may butt heads here on occasion, but you’re alright in my book.
They BOTH suck
April 26th, 2012
1:49 pm
Bruno
Those of us in the Southenr Tribe all know that tune
Just kidding…… If you noticed, I do not get into the tribe conversations
Friends and Family……… yes
Ayn Rant
April 26th, 2012
1:50 pm
The student loan program was a disaster from the beginning. It started life as a political subsidy to banks for “administering” the loans. Now, it’s become another financial crisis.
College/university study is the primary way to develop our most important resource, human knowledge and skill. The great post war economic boom and America’s technical superiority can be attributed to the GI Bill, which helped WW2 veterans get higher education, and to the highly educated immigrants we received from Europe.
Higher education deserves the same priority as national defense. The two are related, since our defense depends on leadership and technology. There is a simple, direct, and effective way to subsidize higher education: just pay the tuition and supplemental expenses of every student maintaining superior grades in any subject that is deemed to be critical to the nation’s future. No loans, no interest, no hassle, just a steady stream of highly qualified young people to sustain American leadership and technology. How to pay for it? Raise the gasoline tax by a penny, initiate a national lottery with profits going to education, tax estate distributions, etc; these things are beneficial in their own right, and too petty to be burdensome.
The US rations higher education according to social connections and ability to pay. Other advanced and advancing nations ration higher education according to ability and willingness to learn serious subjects. We graduate more lawyers, political “scientists”, and business “administrators”. They graduate more engineers, scientists, teachers, doctors, and artists.
Let’s drag ourselves out of the 20th century, leave behind the myths about “small government” and “low taxes”, and face the 21st century with open minds, good sense, and eagerness to correct our failures.
Bud Wiser
April 26th, 2012
1:50 pm
The Republican-led House has generally taken the position that trying to reduce abuse of federal student-loan programs by proprietary schools amounts to government regulation of private enterprise.
Now, substitute a few words in this phrase for re-interpretation….
The ‘Democrat’-led ‘Senate’ has generally taken the position that trying to reduce abuse of federal ‘medicare-medicaid’ programs by hospitals and doctors’ amounts to government regulation of private enterprise.
I guess there’s no problem there, eh?
It depends on whose tureen is getting pi**ed into.
They BOTH suck
April 26th, 2012
1:50 pm
meant to say Southern Tribe
They BOTH suck
April 26th, 2012
1:51 pm
“It depends on whose tureen is getting pi**ed into.”
There is validity to that on both sides for sure
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
1:52 pm
A few minutes psent on google will show that the average salery of a professor at a public university or college in Georgia is below $100,000.00. don’t think they are overpaid.
Bruno
April 26th, 2012
1:52 pm
Not speaking for profs as a whole, but do you think Harvey pays their profs 200k because they could go elsewhere? another high profile school or even the private sector
For sure it’s an elite school, and they attract some of the best and the brightest. A few years ago, I got to hang out with Art Benjamin, their star mathematics professor, for an afternoon. Super cool guy. His math knowledge made me feel like a Kindergartner by comparison. He’s also a well known magician and a world class Backgammon player.
http://www.math.hmc.edu/~benjamin/
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 26th, 2012
1:53 pm
That doesn’t make a lot of sense, Bud. Go have another foreign-owned beer.
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
1:55 pm
Average pay for full professors nationwide at private universities if $99,000. Still less that $100,000.
godless heathen©
April 26th, 2012
1:55 pm
I expect a pol to dodge a question, but I read here all the time how great Rachel Maddow is. I was surprised he let him slide like that.
So They Both Suck, if Hannity does it it’s ok for Rachel. I thought _YOUR side_ was better.
Bruno, I would like to have heard Duncan’s answer. Is a large chunk of it salaries? Would the reason Duncan wouldn’t want to answer is that lefty college professors are big supporters of the President.?
stands for decibels
April 26th, 2012
1:57 pm
A few minutes psent on google will show that the average salery of a professor at a public university or college in Georgia is below $100,000.00. don’t think they are overpaid.
are they including the adjuncts who do most of the heavy lifting, these days, in those compensation averages?
godless heathen©
April 26th, 2012
1:57 pm
sorry, “she” not “he”. How could I have made that mistake?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 26th, 2012
1:58 pm
Bruno
Assuming you acquired the Adblock extension,
Click on the FF tab at the top left of the browser
Click on Add ons
Click on the Options tab for Adblock
Click on the Filter Preference… box
Click on the Custom Filters tab
Add ||*meebo.com/*
Click on Enabled
That’s how I did it this morning.
JamVet - Stay ignorant, my friends...
April 26th, 2012
2:00 pm
It is a good thing that polical party’s aren’t classified as a “race”, because if they were you would be one hell of a “racist”
Brilliant. Reminds me of the line, if a frog had wings, he wouldn’t bump his all all of the time.
Mad Max, fair enough.
Whatever it is, it’s time to relegate it back to the the sixth grade…
Bruno
April 26th, 2012
2:01 pm
Average pay for full professors nationwide at private universities if $99,000. Still less that $100,000.
Let’s just round that out to $100,000 for convenience, Oscar. By comparison, most MD’s (i.e. general practitioners) earn about $140,000. Most MDs put in long hours and take few vacations. College profs likely don’t exceed 40 hrs per week during the school year, and get beaucoup vacations.
I shoulda became a prof.
They BOTH suck
April 26th, 2012
2:01 pm
godless
I have only watched Rachel one time and that was when Jay was on it……..
Couldn’t tell you what that she was good or bad…….. I know she is liberal and like most COMMENTARY shows she would probably let a left leaning politician slide…….
I watch more Fox than any channel and listen to probably an hour of right wing talk radio a week (that would be 1 hour over several instances not at one sitting: I would die from laughter)
My whole point is that it is pointless to say that a left or right leaning commentary show gives a pass to someone within the same ideology……… yes even during an interview
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
2:01 pm
Average salery of a full professor at Harvard if $198,000.00. Nice gig.
JamVet - Stay ignorant, my friends...
April 26th, 2012
2:02 pm
…ass all of the time.
(Damn double tasking…_
Bruno
April 26th, 2012
2:03 pm
Kam–I think that I followed all of those steps last night. Maybe I didn’t press the “Enabled” key. Will try again, thanks. I’m not trusting this meebo bar.
Catch you guys tomorrow. All except JamVet. of course. Gonna have to show him how the Cons party one more time tonight………
JamVet - Stay ignorant, my friends...
April 26th, 2012
2:04 pm
99K a year?
Chump change.
We have CEOs that make that much a day…
They BOTH suck
April 26th, 2012
2:04 pm
godless
I’ve read on here how great Limbuagh and Hanitty are on here, but I would assume most of those touting them know they are not getting but one side of the story…….. At least I hope they know that
same goes for Maddow, Oberman, etc, etc
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
2:04 pm
Bruno
April 26th, 2012
2:01 pm
___
One of my daughters had the choice of med school or going toward become a professor. She chose the later. I was happy she did. She is an associate professor now but seems to be on track.
They BOTH suck
April 26th, 2012
2:05 pm
Bruno
Be safe driving and enjoy the show
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 26th, 2012
2:05 pm
Maybe I didn’t press the “Enabled” key.
Yeah, that’s where I failed last night, too.
Damn, the page loads so much faster now….
stands for decibels
April 26th, 2012
2:07 pm
average adjunct prof looks to be around 55K/year.
http://www.salaryblog.org/930/adjunct-professor-salary/#axzz1tAffd3BT
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
2:09 pm
stands for decibels
April 26th, 2012
2:07 pm
_______
If you don’t make tenure and become a full professor you are pretty much out of luck. Ever see the movie Who’s afraid of Virginia Wolfe.
stands for decibels
April 26th, 2012
2:10 pm
If you don’t make tenure and become a full professor you are pretty much
… a typical instructor at an institution of higher learning, looks like.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
April 26th, 2012
2:12 pm
Make it free. Is that the new answer to everything?
Cosby
April 26th, 2012
2:13 pm
You missed the entire point Jay…first, why, especially the tax payer supported institutions, have been allowed to go unchecked in raising tuition, fees housing etc. They do it at will with no repercussions. Second, as with the housing market, the government has made it very easy for the loans to be acquired without any consideration, as you point out, how they will be paid back. And guess what happened to the housing market. this is another bubble that is about to burst on the economic grid and it, again, will be perputrated by The federal Government. time to hold the institutions of higher learning accountable, time for the Federal government to use some common sense when allowing tax payer money to be used for loans. Now you know the truth. And yes, the higher institutions have a great ponzi scheme going
Jack
April 26th, 2012
2:14 pm
Somehow I managed to get through school without a loan or a grant: seems that’s out of vogue now.
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
2:15 pm
Cosby
April 26th, 2012
2:13 pm
_______
We have fewer and fewer males attending college now. Bubble may be about to burst.
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2012
2:15 pm
Not to worry. The Republican solution for all you unionized overcompensated teachers is to put you all to work for a for-profit private institution for half the compensation so the executives and shareholders can make a decent tax-free living off of you. Now don’t you feel so much better.
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
2:16 pm
Jack
April 26th, 2012
2:14 pm
Somehow I managed to get through school without a loan or a grant: seems that’s out of vogue now.
_____
Not out of vogue. Just that the prices are so high it’s out of reach.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
April 26th, 2012
2:16 pm
“Somehow I managed to get through school without a loan or a grant: seems that’s out of vogue now.
That’s no longer cool.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 26th, 2012
2:16 pm
And guess what happened to the housing market.
There’s no guess work involved, sport.
Private mortgage companies were writing sub-prime loans as fast as they could and sold them to Wall Street to be bundled as fraudulent AAA rated investments.
Michael
April 26th, 2012
2:17 pm
Simple fix: get the government out of higher education financing. Anytime the government gets involved in an industry sector, the price for those services are sure to rise. In Georgia, no one makes a fuss anymore when the Board of Regents hikes tuition. Why? Because the Lottery pays for a large portion of the tuition, even though the Hope Scholarship is going broke. As far as those for profit moocher universities? Take the federal corporate welfare away and the market will quickly determine those universities that are offering a good value to the students.
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
2:18 pm
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2012
2:15 pm
______
That is their plan. Cut down funding to public education. Small government is better. Less education must also be better. cut back of reseach and development. Let China and other countries waste their tax money on those things.
stands for decibels
April 26th, 2012
2:18 pm
good ol’ Merika, where providing an education at little or no out of pocket cost to the student is considered radicalism to some.
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
2:19 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 26th, 2012
2:16 pm
___
And then when then scheme collasped, they blamed the government for lack of regulation of their frauc.
(ir)Rational
April 26th, 2012
2:20 pm
Oscar – Not out of reach, I was able to do it. I went to Georgia Tech full time, and worked pretty close to full time for most of the time I was there, yet somehow I managed to graduate without having to take out student loans.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 26th, 2012
2:21 pm
Oscar
No, they still falsely blame Fannie, Freddie and the CRA.
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
2:22 pm
(ir)Rational
April 26th, 2012
2:20 pm
_______
Ambitions, hardworking overachievers can still do it.
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
2:23 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 26th, 2012
2:21 pm
___
Yes, that also.
Mick
April 26th, 2012
2:24 pm
yaker
Your last post about obama on jimmy fallon; You think someone might get the idea that you are a tad close to the racism stereotype? Pathetic take on an entertainment show appearance, but then again not surprising to see your true colors come out…
(ir)Rational
April 26th, 2012
2:25 pm
Oscar – And that is a bad thing? I mean, I wear my “nerd badge” pretty proudly, and would gladly be called an overachiever, but I’m not sure how you mean it. It almost seems like you’re criticizing me for my ambition and hard work?
Penny Pincher
April 26th, 2012
2:25 pm
Ayn Rant
April 26th, 2012
1:50 pm
good post with some great solutions
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
2:27 pm
(ir)Rational
April 26th, 2012
2:25 pm
__________
I was afraid my comment might be taken that way. I should have left out the word overachiever – does have a negative connation.
Oscar
April 26th, 2012
2:30 pm
Or let’s say it can be taken in a negative way. I don’t see it as a negative, but some people do.
Adam
April 26th, 2012
2:30 pm
Santelli: “Do you want to pay for your child’s student loans?!?!?! HELL NO!!! STAND UP!! WE’RE GONNA HAVE A TEA PARTY ABOUT THIS!”