Metro Atlanta housing prices plummet

We kicked off the week talking about the economic challenges facing metro Atlanta and the region’s need to adapt to suit the modern real estate marketplace.

Yesterday, we got a rather harsh confirmation that change is indeed necessary. According to the latest S&P Case-Shillernumbers, housing prices in the 20 largest metro areas fell by 3.5 percent from February 2011 to February 2012.

In the 28-county metro Atlanta region, however, the year-to-year price decline was 17.3 percent, easily the largest drop in the nation. The decline was twice as large as that in Las Vegas, the second worst-performing metro region in the country.

As the Case-Shiller analysts put it:

“Phoenix and Atlanta stand out this month in terms of their contrasting relative strength and weakness in the early 2012 housing market. At one end of the spectrum, we have Atlanta posting a double-digit, and lowest on record, annual rate at -17.3%. Atlanta has now recorded five consecutive months of double-digit negative annual rates and seven consecutive monthly declines. On the other hand, Phoenix has posted two consecutive months of positive annual rates, with its latest being +3.3%, and five consecutive positive monthly returns.”

Five years ago, housing values in Atlanta were comparable to those in Charlotte, Dallas, Denver and Cleveland. In fact, Atlanta was a close second to Denver among those five. But as the chart below documents, that’s no longer the case.

housing

I don’t think you can look at that data and shrug it off as a momentary blip. It’s also not the inevitable consequence of the larger national economic situation. This is a long-term problem, and it’s a metro Atlanta problem.

– Jay Bookman

447 comments Add your comment

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
7:26 am

“This is a long-term problem, and it’s a metro Atlanta problem.”

And I think it’s only a problem in the sense that people got conned into paying big bucks for houses that weren’t worth anywhere NEAR their true value. This seems to me to be more like a correction back to saner prices.

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
7:28 am

“that weren’t worth anywhere NEAR their true value.”

Ooops! I meant to say “that weren’t worth anywhere NEAR their “market” value.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

April 25th, 2012
7:32 am

Let’s face it….we have a good ole’ boy government, sad schools,
crappy transportation, water issues….

Plenty of reasons for transplants to just not be that into us.

Oh and, it’s largely our own fault.

Don't Forget

April 25th, 2012
7:32 am

It ain’t gonna get any better until wages improve either. The unemployed aren’t buying houses, they never do. This is a symptom of problems the employed are having.

Gale

April 25th, 2012
7:32 am

Ugh. This is not what anyone wanting to sell or even remodel a house wants to see. I would love to buy a new house at these rates, but there are already homes renting in my neighborhood because the owners cannot get their asking price. Should I put more money into my home that I will not see any return on? The problem is that the rate of decline is scattered. Some areas are not nearly this bad. But this is a headwind the seller has to overcome when the buyer insists the house be devalued.

Eric

April 25th, 2012
7:35 am

I agree with Doggone–housing in metro Atl. had been way overpriced for some time. What is more, and hidden from view, are the untold thousands of dollars spent at Home Depot, Lowe’s etc. in the last decade on home improvements, appliance upgrades, etc. that people didn’t get the return they thought they would. Maybe it was fine just to keep that older dish washing machine after all? And no, Obama is not to blame, as some will try to assert. This is a correction inherent in a capitalist economy, unfortunately.

marty

April 25th, 2012
7:39 am

Jay, do you have a breakdown on inside the perimeter vs. outside valuations. I know people inside that are able to sell at around their asking price.

Mick

April 25th, 2012
7:41 am

stands

Yes, that about sums it up :lol:

Jay

April 25th, 2012
7:43 am

Marty, I haven’t seen numbers broken down that way, but that’s the anecdotal evidence I hear as well. On the other hand, it’s important to note that there are certainly areas within the perimeter that have suffered serious declines as well.

stands for decibels

April 25th, 2012
7:44 am

What is more, and hidden from view, are the untold thousands of dollars spent at Home Depot, Lowe’s etc. in the last decade on home improvements, appliance upgrades, etc. that people didn’t get the return they thought they would.

and I have to think that these associated businesses will suffer as well, since it gets harder and harder to justify the expense of some of these upgrades. Hey, my kitchen works just fine, let some other sucker redo the cabinets and countertops; my deck doesn’t really need to be any bigger than it is; that front porch, yeah, I’ve always thought it’d be nice to extend it but that’s pricey…

Just maintain the property, keep it presentable, and hope you don’t take too much of a bath when you *have* to sell and move to something of equal or lesser value. Lotta people thinking that way around here, these days, I suppose.

Mick

April 25th, 2012
7:48 am

Down here in miami land, funny enough in today’s herald there is an article about how home prices are stabilizing and creeping upward – if only! A lot of properties have been bought by brazillians, who are most welcome to keep buying away! Then, maybe I can finally get out…

TaxPayer

April 25th, 2012
7:50 am

I think your chart should help some to realize just how much of our economy in Georgia depended on housing. It was way out of line with true population driven demand and it showed for anyone willing to look around. The growth down in Gwinnett county back in 2003, when we lived down there, was way out of line with demand yet the builders just kept pumping out the subdivisions as though there were no tomorrow. Those were not real jobs no matter how much some want to believe otherwise.

ByteMe - Political thug

April 25th, 2012
7:51 am

What is more, and hidden from view, are the untold thousands of dollars spent at Home Depot, Lowe’s etc. in the last decade on home improvements, appliance upgrades, etc. that people didn’t get the return they thought they would.

Anyone who bought the nonsense being sold by realtors or HGTV or their remodeler that you could get money out of a home improvement project was being sold a bill of goods. Our remodeler was clear that we were doing the improvement for us and maybe to help it sell faster, but certainly not for getting the money out. And this was his statement to us in 2007, before the extent of the market damage was obvious.

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
7:58 am

I see it a little differently. Falling prices in Atlanta, will, at some point, attract buyers.

Out here in the Suburban sprawl, I am amazed at the amount of new construction I see given the housing market…weird…

Call it like it is

April 25th, 2012
8:00 am

Not worried about it. I bought my house not to sell, but to live in. I make upgrades not to add value to the home, but add value to my life. I dont blame the market on traffic, Obama or Bush but greed. People always want bigger and better, never satisfied.

Gale

April 25th, 2012
8:01 am

I am always amazed at the lamentations over few new housing starts. We had so many new homes built in the last ten years that there is hardly anywhere to put more. The new homes they built more recently are so far out, that gas prices make those unattractive, no matter how big they are.

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
8:01 am

“Not worried about it. I bought my house not to sell, but to live in. I make upgrades not to add value to the home, but add value to my life.”

Amen to that!

carlosgvv

April 25th, 2012
8:03 am

Crime in the Atlanta metro area has to be a factor in this housing decline. How many times have we heard people say they would never ever set foot in Atlanta again? Recently, a MARTA bus came between two people shooting at each other. The bus was hit several times and most of us paid little or no attention to this because it’s what we’ve come to expect in Atlanta. I wonder how many people who live in the Atlanta area would move if they could? I know this is not politically correct, but ignoring it will not make it go away.

Fred ™

April 25th, 2012
8:04 am

What is more, and hidden from view, are the untold thousands of dollars spent at Home Depot, Lowe’s etc. in the last decade on home improvements, appliance upgrades, etc. that people didn’t get the return they thought they would.

People can laugh at Clark Howard but for the 20 years I’ve been listening he’s been telling people that you DON’T raise the value of your home with home improvements. And he’s right. But do people listen? Oh hell no. You do “improvements” because you want them, not to increase value.

I had many financial advisers tell me how stupid I was to NOT take out loans against the equity in my house so I could invest in stocks and what not. i wonder where they are now? I’m here, safe and secure in a house that is worth more than it’s loan amount at 3.5 percent fixed for 15 years. LOL If “honey” hadn’t decided we needed to move ITP I’d be sitting in a house that was PAID FOR.

Thomas Heyward Jr

April 25th, 2012
8:04 am

If this trend continues, Obama will have to bail those banks out again.
You know…….to save us all from a calamity.

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
8:06 am

Not only are our politicians some of the most corrupt and inept in the country, our titans of commerce are as well.

This state had a record number of bank closings, costing innocent people hundreds of millions of dollars. With virtually no justice for the criminal negligence therein, of course.

There was a great program on PBS last night – Money, Power And Wall Street.

If only our willfully ignorant, spinally challenged Republicans cared enough to learn exactly what happened. Who did what to whom and when. They’d drop their moronic talking points puked up by their shameless oracles on TV and radio.

And take a wild guess which state was mentioned as Ground Zero in the nation’s subprime lending debacle and predatory lending schemes?

Thanks Sonny Perdue, et al…

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
8:07 am

‘Obama will have to bail those banks out again.’

Words escape me…

Georgia on my mind..

April 25th, 2012
8:07 am

Georgia voted in 2010 to send a message…somehow things are not looking any brighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kH_EZF0XqM&ob=av2e

Thomas

April 25th, 2012
8:07 am

Jay- still looking for your report on N Fulton/ E Cobb with top shelf public schools that are 40%+ minority and a more robust real estate market. Maybe get in the car, sit in 400 North traffic and look at the activity versus your traditional ignorant reporting?

To those who are “embarrased” about Georgia you may want to research Ga. population growth (and take a peek in the mirror)

Whatever

April 25th, 2012
8:08 am

Iceland didn’t bail out it’s banks and they are on the road to recovery while we and Europe struggle on. I think Bush and Obama got this one wrong.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/lesson-iceland-ireland-dont-bail-130200017.html

TaxPayer

April 25th, 2012
8:08 am

I have not kept up with all the activities in the housing market lately but I did hear from some acquaintances that some of the recent foreclosure activity was due to the fact that the owners would not be held responsible for the difference between the bank’s cost and the selling price in a short sale under some new program.

Jay

April 25th, 2012
8:08 am

Carlos, crime in the metro region is DOWN substantially, which makes your whole argument rather ludicrous, don’t you think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Atlanta

stands for decibels

April 25th, 2012
8:09 am

how stupid I was to NOT take out loans against the equity in my house so I could invest in stocks and what not. i wonder where they are now?

Still married to Andrea Mitchell, I guess.

Misty Fyed

April 25th, 2012
8:17 am

I’ve lived in my house about 15 years. 10 years ago they built a subdivision near mine. The lots were half the size of mine. The homes were roughly the same square footage and same quality but the homes sold for over twice what I paid for mine. They sold slowly, but sold none the less.

There were no regional changes to justify the increase in the housing cost except the fact that someone was willing to appraise the homes high and someone was willing to pay that cost. I suspect we are seeing the correction for those mistakes now.

ragnar danneskjold

April 25th, 2012
8:17 am

First step for an alcoholic is to admit there is a problem. Generations of taxpayer subsidy for this one sector of the economy has led to a dislocation of resources, now trying to find the real bottom. The first step to a cure is to abolish FNMA and FHLMC; the second step is to limit mortgage interest deductibility on income taxes, maybe to an amount equal to the standard deduction, or perhaps abolition of the deduction for new mortgages. When government tax policies have a market affect, preferring one element of the market to another, a painful correction can always be anticipated.

Mad Max

April 25th, 2012
8:19 am

Jay, I don’t get your case for connecting the dots to “and the region’s need to adapt to suit the modern real estate marketplace.” The prices for these new modern real estate ventures are also way over valued (cost per sq ft) so I don’t see any great benefit over traditional suburban housing.
Buying a home is just that and unfortunately, people got greedy and believed that it was a sure fire investment. We all hope when we buy that the house will appreciate over time, but there is no guarantee. I have seen both sides in my lifetime and had an exchange of ideas with the Assessors office on this topic once when I appealed my valuation as she was incredulous that I thought my home was worth less than what I paid for it as their model did not allow for that to happen. There are still benefits to home ownership such as tax implications, raising your family where you want to, the joys of manual work(repairs, gardening, etc) that a lot of us don’t get in our daily lives, not having to put up with noises that are associated with “communal housing”, waking up to birds versus delivery trucks so if you bought your house as a home, having some privacy, space to relax in, a place to park, room to engage in your hobbies, etc; it’s still not a bad life investment. If you bought your house as a pure money investment, then you have to understand that investing carries risks (no different than stocks and other types of investment – I’ll sell you some worthless Nortel if you want) and you have to accept that when you make an investment or you shouldn’t invest. How many of these same people would have borrowed the same amount of money to invest in the stock market? Probably none but they got greedy and wanted to believe that it was a foolproof investment. It is a long term equity builder but it is not an investment for the foolhardy. The old adage applies, your house is only worth what the next guy is willing to pay for it and that is why banks traditionally wanted a 20% down for so long to protect themselves. The 0 – 10% down is a relatively new phenomenon brought on by our social engineering government which generated a great housing boom (and a great housing bust). As I said at the top, I don’t see how you connected the dots….

Whatever

April 25th, 2012
8:20 am

ragnar,

If we had a consumption tax with no deductions and a way to keep those in poverty from being taxed on the necessities of life we’d be way better off. The wealthy would pay more by default because they spend a lot more and the poor would pay very little as they don’t spend much.

Jm

April 25th, 2012
8:20 am

Atlanta looks to be headed toward being the next Detroit.

Evacuate while you can!

There’s no job growth driver in Atlanta. And you have high taxes to boot. Not a recipe for success.

Redistricting lines will not help Georgia

April 25th, 2012
8:20 am

Georgia’s Redistricting Lines Approved by Justice Department

The office of Georgia Governor Nathan Deal says the U.S. Department of Justice has approved the new congressional and legislative maps drawn by state lawmakers this past summer. Under Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, Georgia must receive approval from the federal government before any changes in election practices or procedures are implemented.
“The state put forth a tremendous team effort. The maps offer rational district lines, equitable representation and meet the strict standards of the Voting Rights Act,” says Governor Nathan Deal. “The Justice Department’s decision demonstrates that our state’s districts serve our diverse population well.”

http://www2.wsav.com/news/2011/dec/23/3/georgias-redistricting-lines-approved-justice-depa-ar-2923682/

Jm

April 25th, 2012
8:22 am

Atlanta the home of:

High sales taxes
High property taxes
High income taxes

And bad schools. And bad roads.

Whatchya gonna do?

ragnar danneskjold

April 25th, 2012
8:24 am

Dear Whatever @ 8:20. broadly agree. Friedman’s “negative income tax” could surely be adapted?

TaxPayer

April 25th, 2012
8:26 am

The wealthy would pay more by default because they spend a lot more and the poor would pay very little as they don’t spend much.

And then the wealthy would look around and ask why do the poor pay nothing while I pay for everything. This is not fair. Everyone should be responsible for their own needs. THIS IS SOCIALIST. I demand lower taxes and I will have my way for I can afford it… been there

stevie ray...Clowns to the Left and Jokers to the Right..here I am...

April 25th, 2012
8:26 am

JAY,

I’m learning a new money saving phrase….”STRATEGIC DEFAULT”…I’m short selling my ridiculous home since kids are almost all gone…banks are horrific to deal with, especially since they know they no longer have to take any meaningful risks because idiots in DC are more supportive of banks than tax payers…may as well screw them while possible…

Atlanta Mom

April 25th, 2012
8:26 am

The top 1% will only buy so many houses. The recovery has to come to the other 99%

JohnnyReb

April 25th, 2012
8:27 am

I see you Moonbats are no better on housing than politics – surprise.

The idea that Atlanta housing was priced too high vs the national market is ridiculous. Why do you think Atlanta has been a magnet? It was not because housing was priced high.

There are two glaring problems with the metro housing market.

First, too many starter or cheap homes coupled with the do-gooder no down payment, no credit check, no chance of ever being able to pay for it homes.

Second, the continued government intervention, especially with Obama trying to save those poor people, that does not let the market take its natural course. When the government gives up on giving people money to save their home the market will start recovering. Capitalism has a natural course.

Jay

April 25th, 2012
8:28 am

Mad Max, Ragnar:

Those national-scale arguments do not explain metro Atlanta’s experience this late into the economic crisis. Again, our experience is very different from that of other metro regions — a decline twice as large as the No. 2 decline.

That suggests pretty strongly that there is something unique to Atlanta playing out here. Part of that explanation has to be our failure to address issues of traffic, water, infrastructure, etc. Part of it also has to be the fact that the mode of development taken by metro Atlanta for the last quarter century is now out of fashion in the modern real-estate market.

massachusetts refugee thug

April 25th, 2012
8:28 am

my cobb county home (paid for, thank g0d) is now worth less than what i paid for it new in 1991. that’s just messed up.

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
8:29 am

sr – then YOU are the problem.

You engaged in a contract to pay…it is not the bank’s fault you overspent.

Mary Elizabeth

April 25th, 2012
8:29 am

Last evening I watched the two hour, Part 1 Frontline broadcast (PBS – TV) entitled, “Money, Power, and Wall Street,” in which former Governor Roy Barnes was interviewed regarding the home mortgage collapse because of Georgia’s significant role in the unscrupulous subprime lending practices. Barnes, evidently, had been successful in 2002 in getting legislation passed that curtailed these types of subprime home mortgages. However, according to the program, Georgia’s legislators repealed Barnes’ efforts in the next legislative session, and the unscrupulous banking practice continued in Georgia, which later became a national focal point for the national financial collapse of 2008 because of Georgia’s heavy investment in the home mortgage bubble, which collapsed.

I highly recommend this program for many reasons. The segment which showed how presidential candidate Obama took charge at a called White House meeting during the fall of 2008 with President Bush, Tim Geithner, Nancy Pelosi, and others, in which candidate John McCain had announced that he was leaving his campaign to attend, was particularly telling. Those who consider Obama to be a weak president regarding financial matters would be particularly interested in this segment, which refutes strongly that point of view. It was McCain who came off very weak in this meeting, even to Republicans. The program focuses not only on America’s financial collapse of 2008, but also on the worldwide financial collapse, which was precipitated by these greedy lending practices. Part 2 of this program will be aired May 1. See link, below.

http://beta.wosu.org/television/frontline-money-power-and-wall-street/

Great State of Georgia

April 25th, 2012
8:29 am

The people of this “Great State” thought that they could change the direction of the state by electing an all Republican administration. Every politician that was running for ANY state office was running against President Obama. Their platform/motto was geared towards Washington and not focusing on Georgia. How is that working out now Governor Deal and company? Georgia has several titles and they are all negative!

stevie ray...Clowns to the Left and Jokers to the Right..here I am...

April 25th, 2012
8:30 am

SCREW the poor….at least the top 50% of them who pay no taxes and eat all the cheese. I’m sick of paying for their flat screens, extra children, and other crap and waste. We have the most progressive tax code in the world and the only way to balance budget sans some miraculous recovery (apparently not during BO’s tenure) is for the high end of those who pay nothing to have to pay…sickening the slack these folks are cut…all for votes and the entitlements have the exact opposite effect as needed…keeps them down and voting DEM who they should turn on…

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
8:31 am

‘especially with Obama trying to save those poor people’

Yet again, words escape me…

JohnnyReb

April 25th, 2012
8:31 am

Jay, how does the per capita income of the metro area compare to the rest of the country? When the market is flooded with starter homes and the people losing them are low income, that makes it really hard for a normal recovery. No upward mobility.

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
8:32 am

‘SCREW the poor….at least the top 50% of them who pay no taxes and eat all the cheese.’

From the guy that is about to cut and run on his mortgage…too ironic…

Peadawg

April 25th, 2012
8:33 am

“And bad schools.”

Bad Deal and the rest of the GOP needs to stop cutting education.

Jay

April 25th, 2012
8:33 am

“First, too many starter or cheap homes coupled with the do-gooder no down payment, no credit check, no chance of ever being able to pay for it homes.”

Right, JohnnyReb. That explains all those empty mansions alongside golf courses in the northern suburbs. That explains why the ritzy Reynolds Plantation at Lake Oconee went bankrupt. It’s the fault of all those poor people ….

Misty Fyed

April 25th, 2012
8:33 am

A good buddy bought a $500k home in he could barely afford as a retirement investment. Instead of saving, he was banking on selling his home and banking the equity as his retirement account…

Ouch..

Ayn Rant

April 25th, 2012
8:34 am

An unmistakable sign of a failed economy is when the value of tangible property tumbles way below replacement cost.

Probably God is punishing us for being too lenient with immigrants, racial minorities, gays, and women seeking contraceptives and abortions. The Governor should call the good old boys of the Legislature back in session to deal with our economic problems by improving public morality. Or, perhaps the Governor should lead us in prayer from the steps of the Capitol. Remember ol’ Sonny’s rain dance? We nearly drowned in the result!

JohnnyReb

April 25th, 2012
8:37 am

Jay

April 25th, 2012
8:33 am

“First, too many starter or cheap homes coupled with the do-gooder no down payment, no credit check, no chance of ever being able to pay for it homes.”

Right, JohnnyReb. That explains all those empty mansions alongside golf courses in the northern suburbs. That explains why the ritzy Reynolds Plantation at Lake Oconee went bankrupt. It’s the fault of all those poor people ….
_______________

Jay you know the situation is not simple. You can chalk those ritzy places up as fuel toward the housing bust. Cheap money, more money than equity, etc.

For the metro area, that same fuel brought in too many people who bought too many newly built homes or when they bought an existing home the exiting owner overbought.

And, I don’t recall anywhere in my post that I blamed poor people.

ragnar danneskjold

April 25th, 2012
8:37 am

Dear Jay @ 8:28, good morning, I respectfully think the problem less complex than you suggest. Atlanta and/or Georgia are comparatively less attractive now than in the past. Just as California has lost 4 million people – voting with their feet – in the recession, perhaps there is less here that people find attractive. WSJ has been arguing that state income taxes may be a significant factor in where the money is going. Georgia used to be attractive as a place with minimal government; getting harder to tell us from the nanny-state now.

Mad Max

April 25th, 2012
8:37 am

Jay, part of it may be that our housing boom was also late in the cycle. When I moved here in the early 90’s, housing was extremely low compared to the rst of the larger metropolitan areas in the country. Our growth was just starting, spurred on by the 96 Games and it peaked in the miearly to mid 2000’s. Other areas had seen this growth a good 10 – 20 years earlier so they had already experienced fluctuations in their housing markets. Just a possibility.

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
8:40 am

“Second, the continued government intervention, especially with Obama trying to save those poor people, that does not let the market take its natural course.”

Take its natural course???????????????

Unfrigginbelievable, huh LHU?

To this very day, the stunning lack of knowledge about this topic is truly staggering. And frankly disheartening.that a certain segment of society refuses to educate themselves and gain any working knowledge of these matters.

To that point ME, getting these willfully ignorant neocons to actually learn the pertinent – and damning – facts about this topic is futile with a capital F. Not because they are stupid, but because they DON”T WANT to know the truth.

Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

April 25th, 2012
8:40 am

buy buy buy buy buy.

We can haz rental properties. We can retire early.

ragnar danneskjold

April 25th, 2012
8:40 am

Dear Jay, I do not mean to abandon my larger argument – still think pro-active government policies led to the core problem, a nationwide real estate bubble – but I think “more of the same except local” is not the cure for what ails us.

Whatever

April 25th, 2012
8:40 am

stevie ray,

I don’t like seeing the ‘poor’ with big screens and cellphones either. It does smack of a basic misunderstanding of how to mange funds.

Be that as it may, a consumption tax does tax you on what you spend so if the poor go buy a big screen and a cell phone then they pay the exact same tax on those items as the rich do. Totally fair. If the poor go out and buy a humongous yacht they would pay the same tax.

Not taxing food and other necessities would be across the board for rich and poor. So you end up with the same taxes being paid for the same items by everyone. It just so happens the rich will buy more of those items and will pay more taxes. If the rich don’t want to pay the taxes then just don’t buy stuff. Easy enough.

godless heathen©

April 25th, 2012
8:43 am

Like others above, I didn’t buy a house to make money on it. When I’m done with it, it will probably depreciated to almost no value and they can dig a hole and push it in, along with the remainder of the payment book.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
8:44 am

All this is happening under Obama’s watch Jay? Does he have any answers for this except to blam Bush?

Whatever

April 25th, 2012
8:45 am

Jay,

I think JohnnyRebs argument applies for the Lake Oconee projects as well. My wife’s father was a bank president. They were very careful through all this to check out all of the loans they gave out and turned down many who went other places. Their clientele were very ’successful’ types. The bank is still doing very well.

Many ‘rich’ people were given easy loans they didn’t need to get based on their financials and it’s costing us. I don’t think it was only the poor who were given these loans.

barking frog

April 25th, 2012
8:45 am

Buy your dream home and
don’t consider it an
investment.

Steve

April 25th, 2012
8:45 am

We overbuilt. We don’t have the infrastructure. We actually pay VERY LOW property taxes (Jm) compared to most areas, and we are suffering from that lack of revenue (crappy infrastructure, not enough police, bad roads, a water fiasco).

And of course the corruption around the mortgage industry and the GOP deregulation that led to this mess.

We got greedy. Nobody wants to pay taxes yet we complain that we don’t have the public services or infrastructure. Businesses are leaving.

It’s the GOP good ole boy mentality that really killed us here.

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
8:46 am

“It just so happens the rich will buy more of those items and will pay more taxes”

Not in the aggragate they won’t. 10,000 rich people buying a big screen TV dont spend nearly as much as 1,000,000 other buyers buying the same TV.

My idea is to have a progressive Sales Tax, based on the total price on the receipt at the time of purchase. There could be “bands” just as their are in Income Taxes, but the basic premise is that within those bands, the more you spend – at any given time – the higher the percentage of taxes you pay. With, as you say, exclusions for things like food.

Steve

April 25th, 2012
8:48 am

LOL – Atlanta’s problems are Obama’s fault???????? And we are in a ultra red state????

Wow…

carlosgvv

April 25th, 2012
8:49 am

Jay – 8:08

The first sentence in that site you reference:

“Crime in Atlanta, while ABOVE the National median and a MAJOR problem for the City”

Since this site, your reference site, says crime is still a major problem in Atlanta, I’m at a loss as to how you think my post is “ludicrous”. As long as crime is still above the National average and a major problem, it has to be factored in when considering any of Atlanta’s economic problems.

Jay

April 25th, 2012
8:49 am

Poor Joseph.

Let me get this right: It’s Obama’s fault that housing prices have fallen five times faster in metro Atlanta than in the rest of the top 20 metro areas?

Mark in mid-town

April 25th, 2012
8:50 am

I think Georgia and Atlanta are poised for a tremendous comeback. If one is paying attention, the evidence is starting to show that. The Shiller Index is still a rear-view mirror look, and doesn’t take into account the very most recent developments. As for why Atlanta area housing dropped so much, I think it might help to compare the overall demographics of those who moved here in the 1990s with those who moved here the next decade. While the movement was still great in numbers, the mix was very different with a much larger share of those moving here being on the lower rungs economically compared to the 1990s. They were almost all given mortgage loans even though few should have been. Atlanta area became such a magnet for such people, more than just about anywhere else. Why was that? I think that’s the root of why Atlanta housing fell as much as it did. Nonetheless, it’s fallen so much that Atlanta is now once again in great competitive position to attract the next wave of people looking to escape the high-tax parts of the country.

Steve

April 25th, 2012
8:52 am

Carlos – we pay low taxes, we have a corrupt city government, and we don’t have an adequate police force.
Atlanta has always been this way because nobody wants to clean up the city govt. If we had a decent govt here maybe some of our tax money would go to the police and not corruption. And I’m a liberal…

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
8:52 am

‘Unfrigginbelievable, huh LHU?’

I keep seeing it…and, for the life of me, cannot understand it…

JohnnyReb

April 25th, 2012
8:53 am

Quote of the Day

Apparently, I am suppose to be more upset over what Mitt Romney does with his money than about what Barrack Obama does with mine.

Steve

April 25th, 2012
8:53 am

Mark – how can we come back when we don’t have the public transportation or roads to handle that in the city? I’ve lived intown for 20 years and traffic is only getting worse, the water situation is worse, and cost of living here continues to rise.

Whatever

April 25th, 2012
8:53 am

Doggone,

I see what you are saying but the 10,000 rich also buy much more expensive things and more of them than the 1,000,000. So in the end they will pay a lot more tax based on their volume of purchasing.

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
8:53 am

I don’t think you can look at that data and shrug it off as a momentary blip. It’s also not the inevitable consequence of the larger national economic situation. This is a long-term problem, and it’s a metro Atlanta problem.

Sounds like the perfect interlude for the phrase, “No sh*t Sherlock!”

—————————-

dB @ 7:31

:lol:

—————————-

Guess this is partially explains why I’m unable to refi my house right now since I’m still way under water. Maybe I should do like others and quit paying so that I can refinance.

TBone

April 25th, 2012
8:56 am

Gee thank you master of the obvious with this uber-superficial analysis of housing values. With little or no effort expended to delve into the overriding causes of the housing collapse. What impact did the federal government play in monkeying with the markets? To espouse that “change is indeed necessary” is nothing more than progressive/liberal tripe. Screwing things in the market up and then riding in on the white horse to resolve problems caused by the same folks is insanity.

Jm

April 25th, 2012
8:58 am

You guys are trying to analyze the market (poorly)

Analyze Atlanta

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
8:58 am

“Georgia used to be attractive as a place with minimal government; getting harder to tell us from the nanny-state now.”

Too funny. Georgia’s neocons are setting up a nanny state.

Even the simplistic, sophist, always evidence-free talking points run into each other because they are so damn weak!

Washington and Atlanta were completely negligent for YEARS. And the men who ran those private Wall Street titans – Bear Stearns, Goldman Sachs, AIG, Lehman Brothers, Citigroup, BoA, among MANY others, went absolutely berserk with unapologetic greed and a lack of self-discipline that would shock a petulant 16 year old with dad’s credit card.

And the corporate scoundrels, banksters and legalized thieves who damn near destroyed this republic with their casino capitalism and “sustained orgy of excess and reckless behavior” get a free pass from the very brain-dead Republicans that they abused.

Amazing…

http://4closurefraud.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/wallstreet1-1024×518.jpg

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
8:58 am

‘With little or no effort expended to delve into the overriding causes of the housing collapse’

Jay, on behalf of your readers, I apologize for the above…and the pygmies on New Guinea…

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
9:00 am

meh – basic laws of supply and demand … the building boom of the oughties is coming back to bite … “is it a green space??? BUILD A MCMANSION SUBDIVISION!!!”

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
9:01 am

What impact did the federal government play in monkeying with the markets…Screwing things in the market up and then riding in on the white horse to resolve problemscaused by the same folks is insanity.

TBone, you too demonstrate stunning, parroted ignorance.

Mary Elizabeth

April 25th, 2012
9:01 am

AMVET, 8:40 am

“To that point ME, getting these willfully ignorant neocons to actually learn the pertinent – and damning – facts about this topic is futile with a capital F. Not because they are stupid, but because they DON”T WANT to know the truth.”
=================================================

Unfortunately, AmVet, greed is still the dominant culture in America and in Georgia. Moreover, the close connection of our state legislators to the corporate magnates within ALEC, and other contacts of power/wealth on the money centered current American landscape, is keeping Georgia’s legislators from passing critical progressive legislation which would move our state forward for all citizens. This combination of deliberate use of our government to enhance political personal and private wealth, and for the benefit of increasing the CEOs wealth within some corporations, is hurting our state, overall. Power corrupts, but so does greed, and all of the populace are adversely effected because of its mindset. We must recognize the source of the problem before we can change it. Vote out of office and power many of our current legislative leaders, and our state may start to progress, again. Georgia has been in a financial regression, as well as an ideological regression, for far too long to have produced healthy and productive outcomes for the common good of all of its citizens.

Soothsayer

April 25th, 2012
9:02 am

Jay, I just don’t see what all the fuss is about. What we should be doing is listing all these foreclosed houses in China. Then, a group of 50 or 100 Chinese could get together and buy a house.

Heck, with as many people as they’ve got in China, we can make short work of all these unsold homes in no time flat.

I mean it’s only fair. They’ve got our jobs, they might just as well have our homes, too. It’s not too complicated. Why, I bet even Sinkhole can understand it!

St Simons - codewords are the new black

April 25th, 2012
9:02 am

I see the codeword for today is “blame the poors”, got it

what happened to “duh war on success”?
(I liked that one, esp after Little Nero w/a Cowboy Hat)

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
9:03 am

“Analyze Atlanta”

so … Atlanta … tell me about your childhood …

cloudodust

April 25th, 2012
9:03 am

While we’re on the subject of Housing, can we take a brief moment to consider what Senior Exemptions, aka Senior Welfare, has done to the tax base..? (JB, you ought to run some numbers on this and how it’s shifted the burden). The segment of society aged 62-75 that can qualitfy for these exemptions by shifting their finances for one qualifying tax year then go back to drawing their normal retirement incomes and get the exemption benefits for a length of time without having to requalify on a yearly basis…Housing isn’t killing them (unless they’re stupid beyond their years) but hey, thanks to the Georgia Legislature for providing Seniors with the opportunity to redistibute the tax obligation that’s killing the rest of us. Many of us thought of Granny bringing in 10,000k a year on SS and offering her assistance when we passed these exemptions but Granny isn’t the one getting the meaningful breaks… Okay…and now back to Housing and btw, I’m in a paid for house, am going to live here for another generation and am thankful for the blessing to be debt free (except for taxes and medical expenses)…

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
9:05 am

Tbone – “Screwing things in the market up and then riding in on the white horse to resolve problems caused by the same folks is insanity.”

puh_LEEZ

the mcmansion subdivisions – no to mention, the condo units that cropped up like mushrooms after a thunderstorm – had sweet fanny adams to do with government intervention …

THAT was due to market speculation and overbuilding.

fact, jack.

JohnnyReb

April 25th, 2012
9:05 am

Jay, I don’t know if you think you have an answer to the metro housing challenge or if you just want to blog about it. A day or so ago you stated we need a new “tool.” I don’t know what the conclusion, if any, was on that thread, but usually when a Liberal such as yourself starts talking about tools it means some kind of government mandated fix.

You and your followers will deny it, but the root of the current housing bust is CRA. No, it was not the only reason, but it laid the groundwork and greed did the rest. No better example of the failure than Atlanta where greedy developers coupled with government supported bad loans fueled a boom that never should have taken place; thus the bust.

I believe one of those “tools” you are looking for can be found no further than TSPLOST and the beltline which is more do-gooder politican social engineering where a tax for transportation improvements would be used on non-transportation. Yea, let’s vote for TSPLOST.

Atlanta

April 25th, 2012
9:10 am

This Yankee jerk lit me on fire, which wasn’t nice….

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
9:10 am

‘Congress passed the Act in 1977 to reduce discriminatory credit practices against low-income neighborhoods, a practice known as redlining’

Sure, JR…sure…

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
9:10 am

“So in the end they will pay a lot more tax based on their volume of purchasing”

It’s nice to think so, but it doesn’t work out that way. If 100 rich people buy a million dollar boat each, that’s 100 million into the economy. If 100 million middle class people buy a $100 boat that’s a ten billion dollars into the economy. Even though those middle class buyers spent a LOT less per person than the rich did.

JohnnyReb

April 25th, 2012
9:11 am

Parting shot, at least for a while.

Why will Obama lose in November? Look no further than Romney’s speech of last evening.

While Obama goes around blaming the rich, making promises that he can’t keep and will later blame on Republicans, Romney was full of optimisim painting a picuture of our future all like even if you are a Moonbat.

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
9:11 am

You and your followers will deny it, but the root of the current housing bust is CRA.

THIS is the unbelievable level of fierce ignorance out there.

And explains why the man cannot produce one single, solitary piece of compelling evidence by some respected authority to even corroborate this nonsense.

Fresh off the false and politicized attack on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, today we’re hearing the know-nothings blame the subprime crisis on the Community Reinvestment Act — a 30-year-old law that was actually weakened by the Bush administration just as the worst lending wave began. This is even more ridiculous than blaming Freddie and Fannie.

The Community Reinvestment Act, passed in 1977, requires banks to lend in the low-income neighborhoods where they take deposits. Just the idea that a lending crisis created from 2004 to 2007 was caused by a 1977 law is silly. But it’s even more ridiculous when you consider that most subprime loans were made by firms that aren’t subject to the CRA. University of Michigan law professor Michael Barr testified back in February before the House Committee on Financial Services that 50% of subprime loans were made by mortgage service companies not subject comprehensive federal supervision and another 30% were made by affiliates of banks or thrifts which are not subject to routine supervision or examinations.

As former Fed Governor Ned Gramlich said in an August, 2007, speech shortly before he passed away: “In the subprime market where we badly need supervision, a majority of loans are made with very little supervision. It is like a city with a murder law, but no cops on the beat.”

Not surprisingly given the higher degree of supervision, loans made under the CRA program were made in a more responsible way than other subprime loans. CRA loans carried lower rates than other subprime loans and were less likely to end up securitized into the mortgage-backed securities that have caused so many losses, according to a recent study by the law firm Traiger & Hinckley

http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/2008/09/community_reinv.html

As I said earlier, futile with a capital F…

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
9:11 am

Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

April 25th, 2012
9:12 am

You can’t blame the poor for the housing bubble. Do you really think enough poor people can get THAT MUCH credit to cause that much damage?

Nope, it was more the case of middle class people taking advantage of all those bank schemes and over-extending themselves.

barking frog

April 25th, 2012
9:13 am

With all the govt foreclosures why
is there not one
give a vet a house
program?

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
9:13 am

“You and your followers will deny it, but the root of the current housing bust is CRA. ”

WRONG

(the zombie lie that just … won’t … die)

at the market’s height, subprime lending was only 25% of the loans that were made …

additionally, the majority of those making those loans were NOT BANKS – therefore, didn’t fall under the rubric of the CRA

Poor Boy from Alabama

April 25th, 2012
9:13 am

JB,

You may be drawing too broad a set of conclusions from the S&P Case-Shiller Index.

First, the chart you provided shows the rate of change in home prices for various cities not actual prices. Home prices in Atlanta, for example, have been lower than those in Denver for a long time. What the chart really says is that Denver home prices didn’t decline as rapidly as Atlanta home prices.

Go to real estate sites such as ZIllow.com if you want to compare actual prices across cities:

http://www.zillow.com/local-info/

Here’s a summary based upon the cities you compared above:

Home price as of March 2012 / 5 year change in home prices (annualized)

Atlanta – $107,500 / -9.1%
Charlotte – $131,900 / -2.5%
Cleveland – $107,600 / -4.7%
Dallas – $121,500 / -2.8%
Denver – $205,900 / -2.0%

Many cities have experienced five year annualized price declines similar to those of Atlanta according to Zillow.

Here are a few:

Home price as of March 2012 / 5 year change in home prices (annualized)

Bakersfield, CA – $116,700 / -14.1%
Chicago, IL – $155,200 / -9.0%
Erie, PA – $114,400 / -14.1%
Fort Myers, FL – $129,600 / -13.0%
Las Vegas, NV – $111,600 / -17.5%
Medford, OR – $153,900 / -10.6%
Ogden, UT – $84,800 / -11.3%
Phoenix, AZ – $128,000 / -12.9%
Seattle, WA – $248,600 / -7.8%

I only listed a few of the cities that have experienced double digit annualized declines in home prices over the last five years.

There’s no doubt that the Atlanta housing market has issues, but so do a whole lot of other cities. I would be careful about trying to draw too fine a set of inferences from home prices.

Common Sense

April 25th, 2012
9:14 am

You need to analyze the rise in prices to analyze the fall…..

Not one comment in your blog about Atlanta area leading in fraudilent loans? And that pushed up prices much higher than they should have been in the first place?

You really do try to paint a one sided picture, don’t you?

Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

April 25th, 2012
9:15 am

Good 9:11am post, JamVet.

But people like to blame people who aren’t like themselves for these things. They won’t admit it was their own kind who did the most damage- the middle class.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
9:15 am

Atlanta – 9:10 – and how did that make you FEEL …

TBone

April 25th, 2012
9:15 am

Since Lord Help Us , JamVet and others seem to have all of the answers and own all of the facts, the rest can just sit back knowing that all is in good hands and we will expect nothing but sunshine from now on. Good job boys.

bob

April 25th, 2012
9:16 am

Mary Elizabeth, why waste time watching frontline document things like credit default swaps and derivitives. We all know the economy tanked because of the Bush tax cuts. Let me be more specific, the cuts for the rich, the cuts for the rest of us were ok.

Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

April 25th, 2012
9:16 am

Official figures indicated that the British economy shrank in the first quarter, pushing the country into its second recession since the financial crisis.

How you like that Austerity now?

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
9:16 am

“You need to analyze the rise in prices to analyze the fall…..”

I agree – I wish the lovely, colorful graph went back to 2000 … so that it could chart the meteoric rise, rather than just look at the fall

Just a thought

April 25th, 2012
9:17 am

Maybe Governor Deal can make a deal with the banks to solve these issues…oh wait, first he must solve his OWN issues…

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
9:18 am

‘Since Lord Help Us , JamVet and others seem to have all of the answers and own all of the facts, the rest can just sit back knowing that all is in good hands and we will expect nothing but sunshine from now on. Good job boys’

We may not have the answers, but at least we are not parroting easily debunked BS…

Misty Fyed

April 25th, 2012
9:18 am

If we want to be FAIR…..and that seems to be the key word these days… Let’s do away with a progressive tax system…forget consumption tax….Simply divide last years gov’t expenses by the number of citizens of age, and that’s what you owe this year. Consider it a fee for citizenship…No deductions, no deferments…What can be more fair than that? Yes..I know that will never happen. It seems to me the people who always call for fairness really want anything but fairness.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
9:18 am

I’m wondering if this is the best dems can do for their voice to be heard. Its truly amazing how ignorant this woman is when confronted with real questions over the dems refusal to put forth a budget….

http://nation.foxnews.com/debbie-wasserman-shultz/2012/04/25/bret-baier-dismantles-dnc-chairs-mistruths

Adam

April 25th, 2012
9:20 am

Part of that explanation has to be our failure to address issues of traffic, water, infrastructure, etc. Part of it also has to be the fact that the mode of development taken by metro Atlanta for the last quarter century is now out of fashion in the modern real-estate market.

I think this is pretty much right on the nose. Especially the traffic part. The Atlanta traffic is LEGENDARY to all outside observers.

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
9:22 am

“What can be more fair than that?”

It’s mathmatically “fair”. It’s not economically fair.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
9:22 am

Misty – 9:18 – I don’t believe we’ve met … I’ve been espousing a flat tax for years … no deductions for anyone.

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
9:22 am

But it’s even more ridiculous when you consider that most subprime loans were made by firms that aren’t subject to the CRA…..

at the market’s height, subprime lending was only 25% of the loans that were made ……..

Man, that CRA is like the Jason Voorhees of laws… That’s one bad mutha#!*%!!!

Adam

April 25th, 2012
9:22 am

DEBBIE WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ! BOOGAH BOOGAH BOOGAH! Hide under your bed cons!

Ej Moosa

April 25th, 2012
9:22 am

“Right, JohnnyReb. That explains all those empty mansions alongside golf courses in the northern suburbs. That explains why the ritzy Reynolds Plantation at Lake Oconee went bankrupt. It’s the fault of all those poor people ….”

Do you have any clue how markets work?

All the illegitimate buyers you work so hard to defend inflated prices for everyone. The legitimate buyers did not know there was so much phony purchasing power thrown into the equation.

So all the legitimate buyers in that time frame purchased homes at much higher prices than they would have otherwise.

But go ahead and try once again to get into class warfare.

The truth is that if class welfare had not been distributed, via 0 down loans, no doc verification, and other methods courtesy of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, who are backed with the full faith of the Federal printing presses, the situation would have been very different today.

But the government was just trying to help, weren’t they?

When you inflate the pool of buyers artificially, eventually it will rise to a peak and then collapse.

Just what do you think is getting ready to happen with Student loans and college education?

Exactly the same thing.

Thank government for that one too.

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
9:23 am

TBone, because you are a self-created know-nothing on this matter, doesn’t mean I have “all of the answers”.

But unlike you, at least I’ve done a lot of reading, from a wide variety of source, over five years and educated myself to the point where I don’t sound like a twelve year old at the adult’s table.

I know that is harsh, but until you own up to your jawdropping ignorance and then do something about it, that is the way it will be.

And still more evidence of this mass, self-imposed, generally Republican lack of basic knowledge.

Mary Elizabeth, why waste time watching frontline document things like credit default swaps and derivitives.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
9:23 am

JohnnyReb: Jay you know the situation is not simple.

Says the guy who tried to make the situation as simple as blaming the poor.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
9:25 am

JohnnyReb:

no chance of ever being able to pay for it

I don’t recall anywhere in my post that I blamed poor people.

IRONY

TaxPayer

April 25th, 2012
9:25 am

We all know the economy tanked because of the Bush tax cuts. Let me be more specific, the cuts for the rich, the cuts for the rest of us were ok.

I don’t recall seeing that claim before. Is that really what you all believe, bob.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
9:26 am

Doggone: My idea is to have a progressive Sales Tax, based on the total price on the receipt at the time of purchase.

I see an easy loophole here….

Mary Elizabeth

April 25th, 2012
9:26 am

“The Glass-Steagall Act was the most important legislation to evolve out of the Great Depression, from the stock market and bank failures, in the late 1920’s. Its legislation separated commercial and investment banking, in addition to serving as a remedy for the conflicts of interest that were bred before the historic economic tragedy. After numerous attempts to repeal this act and millions of lobbying dollars showered on Congress, it was finally dismantled through former President Bill Clinton approval of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA) or Financial Modernization Act of 1999. There has been much criticism and controversy surrounding its repeal and many believe it opened the door to financial destruction. In particular, its repeal has been connected as a primary contributory factor to the current economic disaster, because it broke down the financial barriers, which prior to its repeal, safeguarded our financial institutions. This research project contains relevant information and supportive articles detailing how the repeal of this significant legislative act has contributed to the sub-prime mortgage crisis, and hence market failure on a national.”

http://www.redlands.edu/docs/URSB/4_GLASS_STEAGALL_-_formatted__edited.pdf

Butch Cassidy

April 25th, 2012
9:26 am

JohnnyReb – “the people losing them are low income”

Okay, I’m definitely going to have to ask for supportive data on that comment.

Common Sense

April 25th, 2012
9:27 am

How many times has Underground Atlanta gone bankrupt?

Gonna blame that on Atlanta Traffic too?

If only they had mass transit….right?

Steve

April 25th, 2012
9:28 am

Mary Elizabeth – thank you for posting facts :)

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
9:28 am

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100430221734/headhuntershorrorhouse/images/8/84/Jason_Voorhees_2009_-_005.jpg

Looks like the CRA is looking in the suburbs for a new subdivision. Better hope that’s not your area…

:lol:

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
9:28 am

‘The truth is that if class welfare had not been distributed, via 0 down loans, no doc verification, and other methods courtesy of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae’

The amount of ignorance in this one sentence is unbelievable…and from the person that asked if you know how markets work…wow…

Mitt Romney in Vegas

April 25th, 2012
9:29 am

Republican presidential candidate and front-runner Mitt Romney has won the Nevada caucus, but critics were quick to note his strategy of sidestepping the state’s dire housing market situation. Nevada leads the U.S. in foreclosures and in Las Vegas 70% of current borrowers are underwater on their mortgages. Some speculate that Romney’s silence was part of a predetermined course that was set with comments he made last year suggesting he believed the best answer was for government to stand aside and let the mass of foreclosures take place. Pundits argue he may have to adjust this philosophy if he hopes to beat President Barack Obama, who supports continued intervention for homeowners.

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
9:30 am

“I see an easy loophole here….”

There are loopholes in ALL tax plans. No exceptions.

Butch Cassidy

April 25th, 2012
9:32 am

JohnnyReb – “And, I don’t recall anywhere in my post that I blamed poor people”

I think it was implied in this statement – ““the people losing them are low income”

Then again, it could just be me.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
9:32 am

The economy didn’t tank because of the Bush Tax Cuts. The deficit rose substantially because of it instead. It was part of a larger multi-policy initiative that screwed the economy royally. It also is part of the GOP long game of lowering taxes as much as possible until you get thrown out of office for doing other terrible things, then blame the Democrats forever for raising taxes, since there’s no way to pay for anything unless you do. And if the Democrats DON’T actually raise taxes? Just keep saying they did, or will, or that it will somehow affect you.

Now I personally say let all the Bush Tax Cuts expire, and every other tax incentive thrown in since 1999. Reset the tax code to where it was then, since the bloat in the tax code is largely from the first 3 Bush years.

TBone

April 25th, 2012
9:32 am

“We may not have the answers, but at least we are not parroting easily debunked BS…”
Don’t know about you but this sounds alot like the White House talking points memo that went out a little while ago? Debunking; isn’t that waking up?

mama mcmansion

April 25th, 2012
9:33 am

greed fed the trough for brokers, bankers and sales agents…..

barking frog

April 25th, 2012
9:33 am

Allowing commercial banks
to offer investment banking
to their customers had
nothing to do with the
economic crisis. All the
bank failures were due
to real estate speculation.

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
9:33 am

There are loopholes in ALL tax plans. No exceptions.

Speaking of which, I’m wondering how long it will take for Georgia to stop the $1 car sales to switch titles and such because of the new tax law. Even private owner sales are now taxed the same as dealer sales. I’m waiting to see how fast that issue gets blown up.

Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

April 25th, 2012
9:33 am

The CRA only applied to deposit-taking institutions, not Countrywide and those types.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
9:34 am

Doggone: Yes, but that one is easy. Just sit at that register and buy every single thing on a separate ticket. Unless there’s a law against that, the person who comes in spending oodles of money will not be denied, no matter how much the clerk at the register objects.

Not Blind

April 25th, 2012
9:35 am

Take the price you ‘paid’ { financed } for your house and then add to that the interest dollars you are paying and then go cry in your milk. Accountants will say you can’t include the interest in figuring out what your house costs but sure as $%^ that money is gone from your checkbook. A homeowner looking at his financed house as a growing investment is suffering from a financial sector brainwashing. House buyers need to have this myth debunked. Buy only what you need, in an area you could be happy to live forever in, and pay the thing off as fast as you can. 30 year mortgages are a loan shark racket. We paid our 15yr refi off in 7 years and saved $25,000 in interest. An amount that will be probably be spent repairing the poor workmanship most all under 25 year old houses exhibit [ illegal alien built ] :rolleyes: .

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
9:35 am

Butch @ 9:32

I don’t think it was just you…

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
9:36 am

Brocephus – 9:22 – watch your mouth!

Junior Samples

April 25th, 2012
9:36 am

Hey, I have an idea. Let’s follow the liberal blueprint for government and elect officials that will follow that way of thinking. It worked great in Detrioit and seems to be working in Chicago and other major cities.

EJ Moosa

April 25th, 2012
9:36 am

Lord Help Us,

Why not show some substantive evidence that those comments are wrong? They have been fully documented time and again.

Rolling your eyes does not make it untrue.

Try reading “The Big Short” by Michael Lewis, for starters. Learn what Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were really up to, and how ignorant on the markets they were.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
9:36 am

Brosephus: Speaking of which, I’m wondering how long it will take for Georgia to stop the $1 car sales to switch titles and such because of the new tax law.

In Washington State, if you sell a car for any value, you pay use tax on the VALUE of the car, not the amount it was sold for. The loophole is to get the person to write a letter and sign it that says you were gifted the car, rather than sold it.

How to solve Georgia's Housing Crisis

April 25th, 2012
9:36 am

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
9:36 am

‘Debunking; isn’t that waking up?’

No, it is the very easy task of validating something before swallowing it hook, line and sinker…

In your case, an example would be your statement about Obama and the bank bailouts. Easily debunked by a second grader, but flowing off your tongue so easily…

EJ Moosa

April 25th, 2012
9:37 am

“Now I personally say let all the Bush Tax Cuts expire, and every other tax incentive thrown in since 1999. Reset the tax code to where it was then, since the bloat in the tax code is largely from the first 3 Bush years.”

Better yet, let’s go back to 1960.

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
9:38 am

“sit at that register and buy every single thing on a separate ticket.”

It’s just a tad difficult to buy things like a 5 million dollar house “on a separate ticket”

And you’re ignoring the tax bands. My idea wouldn’t be that each penny more would mean more taxes, it would mean (as a rough example) that if you buy up to $1000 at a time you pay, say, 4% tax. Between $1001 and $10,000 you pay 5%, and so on.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
9:38 am

“The truth is that if class welfare had not been distributed, via 0 down loans, no doc verification, and other methods courtesy of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, who are backed with the full faith of the Federal printing presses, the situation would have been very different today.”

really??? Fanny and Freddie were espousing NOT verifying income???

is that REALLY the story you’re sticking to, here???

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
9:38 am

The truth is that if class welfare had not been distributed, via 0 down loans, no doc verification, and other methods courtesy of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae

Moosa. what part of the following widely known data escapes you???

Federal Reserve Board data show that:

More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that’s being lambasted by conservative critics.

Oct. 12, 2008

WASHINGTON — As the economy worsens and Election Day approaches, a conservative campaign that blames the global financial crisis on a government push to make housing more affordable to lower-class Americans has taken off on talk radio and e-mail.

Commentators say that’s what triggered the stock market meltdown and the freeze on credit. They’ve specifically targeted the mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which the federal government seized on Sept. 6, contending that lending to poor and minority Americans caused Fannie’s and Freddie’s financial problems.

Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren’t true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis.

Please educate yourself once and for all…

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2008/10/12/53802/private-sector-loans-not-fannie.html

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
9:39 am

Of course not Jay! Its George Bush’s fault silly…. LOL….

Atlanta

April 25th, 2012
9:39 am

Usinuk 9:15

I became very resentful toward Yankees

Not Blind

April 25th, 2012
9:40 am

One conclusion I came to after last night’s PBS special is that Bernie Madoff should have a LOT of company in prison.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
9:40 am

EJ Moosa: Why not show some substantive evidence that those comments are wrong?

(shifting the) Burden of proof (see – onus probandi) – I need not prove my claim, you must prove it is false

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
9:40 am

You make the claims re: ‘class warfare,’ you back it up…

While you’re at it, can you define legitimate vs. illegitimate buyers?

‘All the illegitimate buyers you work so hard to defend inflated prices for everyone. The legitimate buyers did not know there was so much phony purchasing power thrown into the equation.’

Moderate Line

April 25th, 2012
9:41 am

Jay has implied in previous post that housing prices are plumenting because people perfer places which are no heavily dependent on automobile. However, the lastest statistics just do not support such a conclusion. In fact Atlanta metro area is still the 7th fastest growing metor area. Plus the metro areas which are in the top 10 are not exactly big on high density housing. Only two cities in the top 10 for transit systems are in the top 10 for growth.

The 10 Metro Areas with the Largest Numeric Increase from April 1, 2010, to July 1, 2011
Numeric
Increase
1. Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, Texas 154,774
2. Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, Texas 139,699
3. Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, D.C.-Va.-Md.-W.Va. 121,911
4. New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, N.Y.-N.J.-Pa. 118,791
5. Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, Calif. 115,964
6. Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, Fla. 105,490
7. Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, Ga. 90,345
8. Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, Calif. 80,146
9. Phoenix-Mesa-Glendale, Ariz. 70,349
10. Austin-Round Rock-San Marcos, Texas 67,230
http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/population/cb12-55.html
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/02/08/10-best-cities-for-public-transportation

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
9:41 am

USinner :)

I personally think the CRA should be renamed the “Jason Voorhees Housing Act” because no other person has ever been able to wreak that much havoc and live to see another day. I think the total body count in victims between the two are pretty close too….

—————————-

Adam

Not sure how that would work in Georgia though. The tax, from what I read is paid on the amount of the sale. I doubt very seriously that they are going to accept $1 sales on cars for a long time when they realize the loss of tax revenue. One of the main drivers for the tax was that dealers were angry that private sales were not taxed.

JKL2

April 25th, 2012
9:41 am

bumper sticker of the day:

My dog has created more shovel-ready jobs than obama has.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
9:41 am

Just out of curiosity, can anyone point to a speech in the last, oh… 6 months, in which Obama has blamed Bush for anything?

Anyone?

Anyone?

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
9:42 am

“Its George Bush’s fault…”

C,mon!

For the six hundredth and forty third time, NOTHING is George Bush’s fault.

Look before I leap...

April 25th, 2012
9:43 am

“The loophole is to get the person to write a letter and sign it that says you were gifted the car, rather than sold it.”

That is not a loophole, that is tax fraud.

Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

April 25th, 2012
9:44 am

Jam, I believe it’s futile…..

84%! The Con mind is a difficult nut to crack.

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
9:44 am

My dog has created more shovel-ready jobs than American employers have.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
9:44 am

Brosephus: If the law is tax on the amount of sale, then the lawmakers are pretty dumb, OR they passed a law to temporarily get the car dealers off their backs, knowing full well people would do this.

Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

April 25th, 2012
9:44 am

Do you folks understand the purpose of CRA? Banks take in deposits and then lend that money out to businesses. Historically speaking, banks take in deposits in a neighborhood/community and then lend that money to businesses in that same community. The CRA came about because inner city banks were taking in deposits in a community and then refusing to lend money back in to that community.

This is like if Bank of America, Citigroup and all the other big US banks, which take our deposits, refused to lend to Americans because they could get better returns in Asia. Would you like to see that? Would you not prefer to see your local bank helping out local businesses?

EJ Moosa

April 25th, 2012
9:45 am

UsinUK,

Freddie Mac and Fannie mae set the standards for the loans they would “purchase” from the brokers.

You do understand how this business worked right?

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
9:45 am

JamVet:

Your dogs name must be government????

Adam

April 25th, 2012
9:45 am

EJ Moosa: Better yet, let’s go back to 1960.

I didn’t know you advocated for a 91% tax rate on the top tier.

TBone

April 25th, 2012
9:45 am

“In your case, an example would be your statement about Obama and the bank bailouts. Easily debunked by a second grader, but flowing off your tongue” Is this an example of your factual mastery? I never made any comment or alluded to bank bailouts. This all started long before the bailouts but you knew that I am sure. Hey you have a great day cause I gotta work.

Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

April 25th, 2012
9:46 am

This isn’t W’s fault. The groundwork for the housing fiasco was laid before he came on the scene…

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
9:46 am

My dog has created more shovel-ready jobs than American employers have.

Gotta call foul on that one, bro. That’s not a true statement. I think what you were trying to say is:

“My dog has created more shovel-ready jobs in America than American employers have.”

:)

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
9:46 am

JamVet:

Well dems sure blame him if they have a bad hair day… Its disgusing really but it is all they have becuase the idea’s are simply not there…..

MountainMan

April 25th, 2012
9:47 am

From Businessweek on Clinton’s role in the housing bubble

The National Homeownership Strategy began in 1994 when Clinton directed HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros to come up with a plan, and Cisneros convened what HUD called a “historic meeting” of private and public housing-industry organizations in August 1994. The group eventually produced a plan, of which Mason sent me a PDF of Chapter 4, the one that argues for creative measures to promote homeownership.

The very worst idea in the plan, which fortunately never gained approval, was to let first-time homebuyers freely tap their IRA and 401(k) retirement-savings plans with no penalty to scrounge up a downpayment. That, HUD estimated, would have “benefited” 600,000 families in the first five years.

Plenty of other ideas in the plan did become reality, though. Knowing what we know now about the housing bust, the earnest language in the document seems faintly ridiculous. Here’s an excerpt. Read it closely and you can see the seeds of disaster being planted:

For many potential homebuyers, the lack of cash available to accumulate the required downpayment and closing costs is the major impediment to purchasing a home. Other households do not have sufficient available income to to make the monthly payments on mortgages financed at market interest rates for standard loan terms. Financing strategies, fueled by the creativity and resources of the private and public sectors, should address both of these financial barriers to homeownership.

Note the praise for “creativity.” That kind of creativity in stretching boundaries we could use less of. Mason puts it well: “It strikes me as reckless to promote home sales to individuals in such constrained financial predicaments.”

Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

April 25th, 2012
9:47 am

Freddie Mac and Fannie mae set the standards for the loans they would “purchase” from the brokers

Yay! Moosa sees that Freddie and Fannie weren’t writing mortgage loans! Everybody take a drink…

EJ Moosa

April 25th, 2012
9:47 am

“Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.”

Yes but that would not have happened had Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae purchased those loans as they were made, giving those lenders the cash to go out and repeat what they had just done.

That seems to be the critical fact that escape you.

Rightwing Troll

April 25th, 2012
9:47 am

Speaking of cons and nuts…

I see the Newtster is exiting the race… I hope you all will bemoan the string of bankrupt companies and unpaid campaign debts he leaves behind as much as you cried for the jilted stockholders of GM. Lots of good folks unpaid in Newts steaming pile of poo deserved better…

ragnar danneskjold

April 25th, 2012
9:48 am

Good morning US in UK @ 9:13, you err, for lack of vision. You correctly affirm that “at the market’s height, subprime lending was only 25% of the loans that were made … additionally, the majority of those making those loans were NOT BANKS – therefore, didn’t fall under the rubric of the CRA”

The way CRA works is the “attaboy” system – banks are “allowed” to expand if they serve their communities, and under CRA one way – the most common way – to get the attaboy is to purchase mortgage-backed securities, usually those issued by FNMA or FHLMC (thanks, taxpayers!). Because subprimes were 25% of the market, those perverse government-incentives pushed banks into a lot of rotten paper. Even without originating a single loan.

I used to assign blame for the mortgage bubble as 50% to the Fed, for demonetizing the currency with sub-market interest rates, 40% FNMA/FHLMC for fueling the fires, and 10% to CRA for debasing the quality in the market. Since then my eyes were opened to the larger, perverse incentive, the Basel Accords, which pushed all banks into sovereign debt (the European “solution”) and mortgage securities (the American “solution.”) But for the interference with the market, banks would have stayed in their area of expertise, the commercial debts that funded America commercial growth.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
9:48 am

Adam:

Here’s just a compilation of blaming Bush just about gas prices… Google is a wonderful tool….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9Oek6ZboAI

EJ Moosa

April 25th, 2012
9:49 am

I didn’t know you advocated for a 91% tax rate on the top tier.

Well, I can be just as arbitrary as you.

Moderate Line

April 25th, 2012
9:49 am

Even though Georgia ranks third in mortgage delinquencies — just behind Mississippi and Nevada — and seventh for completed foreclosures, the Obama Administration announced last week that the state will see none of the $1.5 billion in stimulus funding aimed at foreclosure prevention. That money will, instead, go to the top five hardest hit states fore completed foreclosures: Arizona, California, Florida, Michigan and Nevada.

http://www.georgiawatch.org/2010/02/24/georgia-ranks-3rd-for-mortgage-delinquencies-subprime-borrowers-lead-pack/

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
9:50 am

Finn, we’re nearly five years on though!

And STILL the compliant know-nothings cling to their Limbaugh and Hannityesque stupidity.

Apparently their over-arching hatred of liberals, Democrats, moderates, centrists, greens, foreigners et al precludes them from using their brains to find out easily researched, basic facts and truths.

The bottom line is that a staggeringly huge number in this hugely dysfunctional GOP refuse to accept any reality and live in a now perpetual willing suspension of disbelief.

And I thought the Nixon goons and Reaganistas were bad!

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
9:51 am

Why are we not talking about how the dems want the Bush tax cuts to expire? If this happen’s everyone’s taxes will go up period. Of course dems will spin it and say it only helps millionares which of course would be a lie….

EJ Moosa

April 25th, 2012
9:51 am

“Yay! Moosa sees that Freddie and Fannie weren’t writing mortgage loans! Everybody take a drink…”

Yes you produce crap and we will buy it from you so you can do it again.

Who do you think was setting the standards?

The banks, or Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae?

The banks were doing what the government WANTED them to do.

Don’t you get that yet?

Jm

April 25th, 2012
9:51 am

What makes Atlanta different?

Dallas Phoenix Houston have sprawl too.

The difference is they kept investing in road infrastructure. They have lower taxes. They have higher tech workforces.

ragnar danneskjold

April 25th, 2012
9:51 am

Moosa @ 9:45 is right on target. Banks were only concerned with whatever minimal standards the government bundlers required (or should that be “government bunglers?”) and merely adopted the FNMA/FHLMC standards as their own. Always stupid to follow a government lead.

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
9:51 am

Adam

I had to go back to verify. The new tax does away with the sales tax part of a car sale. The tag tax starts off at 6.5% in 2013 and goes up to 7% in 2015. It’s based on the sale amount, and not the value of the vehicle.

getalife

April 25th, 2012
9:53 am

Let me guess.

The con’s knee jerk reaction is to blame the dems then whine about others blaming w.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
9:53 am

Still waiting for someone to cite Obama blaming Bush for something IN THE LAST 6 MONTHS

GT

April 25th, 2012
9:55 am

This is the state that deems itself the one of the leaders in showing this nation the way. We put two candidates into the mix of the Republican primary, we have declared the feds unfit to handle illegal immigration, have our jails under federal mandates and in general been the authority on everything wrong with America. Not once do we gather ourselves and say maybe we are the ones who have it wrong. We who started the slide at the bottom, who very well may be the largest contributors to the worst economy in a generation,have found lower gears without even blinking.

Let these conditions keep dropping and even the deaf can hear and the blind may see. Let these conditions keep dropping and maybe someone will think there is a better way of thinking. Even the right understands the Lord’s thinking and maybe this is a subtle communication from on high that economic suicide will continue until you wake up and see what you have done to yourselves in the name of all that is good.

fluff/fold

April 25th, 2012
9:57 am

It’s all fluff until redneck opines.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
9:57 am

Heck, I’ll make it easy. Here’s a competition:

Find and cite the date (maybe even the time) with proof in the form of a transcript, of the very last time Obama directly blamed Bush for something. I’d sincerely like to know when, EXACTLY, he stopped doing this.

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
9:58 am

Even though Georgia ranks third in mortgage delinquencies — just behind Mississippi and Nevada — and seventh for completed foreclosures, the Obama Administration announced last week that the state will see none of the $1.5 billion in stimulus funding aimed at foreclosure prevention.

As the conservatives usually claim, “why throw good money after bad???” Seems like the state of Georgia has less than a stellar record of using federal funding for its intended purpose in a timely fashion.

http://www.ajc.com/news/mortgage-assistance-program-slow-1407289.html

More than a year ago, Georgia was given nearly $340 million in federal funds to help unemployed homeowners avoid foreclosure. But since HomeSafe Georgia’s official launch in April 2011, the state has awarded just $23 million, helping fewer than 1,000 Georgians keep their homes.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
9:58 am

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
9:58 am

Yes but that would not have happened had Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae purchased those loans as they were made, giving those lenders the cash to go out and repeat what they had just done.

Which is EXACTLY what you “all regulations and oversight must go!” neocons wanted. NO supervision.

The Bush administration has been weakening CRA enforcement and the law’s reach since the day it took office. The CRA was at its strongest in the 1990s, under the Clinton administration, a period when subprime loans performed quite well. It was only after the Bush administration cut back on CRA enforcement that problems arose, a timing issue which should stop those blaming the law dead in their tracks.

But these loans, and those to low- and moderate-income families represent a small portion of overall lending. And at the height of the housing boom in 2005 and 2006, Republicans and their party’s standard bearer, President Bush, didn’t criticize any sort of lending, frequently boasting that they were presiding over the highest-ever rates of U.S. homeownership.

Between 2004 and 2006, when subprime lending was exploding, Fannie and Freddie went from holding a high of 48 percent of the subprime loans that were sold into the secondary market to holding about 24 percent, according to data from Inside Mortgage Finance, a specialty publication. One reason is that Fannie and Freddie were subject to tougher standards than many of the unregulated players in the private sector who weakened lending standards, most of whom have gone bankrupt or are now in deep trouble.

During those same explosive three years, private investment banks — not Fannie and Freddie — dominated the mortgage loans that were packaged and sold into the secondary mortgage market. In 2005 and 2006, the private sector securitized almost two thirds of all U.S. mortgages, supplanting Fannie and Freddie, according to a number of specialty publications that track this data.

The FACTS are aligned TOTALLY against you.

But what the hell, you desperately want to believe that your buddies at Bear Stearns, Goldman Sachs, AIG, Lehman Brothers, Citigroup, BoA/CountryWide, HSBC, Chase, Wells Fargo, WaMu, et al, were all the victims and not the perpetrators of these crimes…

Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

April 25th, 2012
9:59 am

Mountain Man makes a good post – the initial push was to get more people into starter homes. BUT, it quickly ballooned out to where all those deals were being offered to everybody – middle class, 2nd home buyers, 3rd home buyers, etc….No Money Down!.

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
10:00 am

Banks were only concerned with whatever minimal standards the government bundlers required (or should that be “government bunglers?”) and merely adopted the FNMA/FHLMC standards as their own.

Yet another unsubstantiated lie posited as fact.

For the unread and “forgetful”…

Between 2004 and 2006, when subprime lending was exploding, Fannie and Freddie went from holding a high of 48 percent of the subprime loans that were sold into the secondary market to holding about 24 percent, according to data from Inside Mortgage Finance, a specialty publication.

One reason is that Fannie and Freddie were subject to tougher standards than many of the unregulated players in the private sector who weakened lending standards, most of whom have gone bankrupt or are now in deep trouble.

St Simons - codewords are the new black

April 25th, 2012
10:00 am

Romney’s dog has created more shovel-ready car detailing jobs
than American employers have.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:01 am

Atlanta – 9:39 –

Resentful???

very interesting …

could you tell me about your toilet training?

did your mother withhold her affections?

was your father distant?

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
10:02 am

“Don’t you get that yet?”

Nope, because it’s not true.

Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

April 25th, 2012
10:02 am

Just the idea that poor people can get enough credit extended to them to wreck the entire planet is crazy ignorant.

Now a middle class person looking for credit extensions? Step right up! Come one, come all.

kayaker 71

April 25th, 2012
10:02 am

A lot of us are plagued by bad choices…… if we just took responsibility for them and quit blaming someone else for our bad decisions, this life would be a whole lot better.

ragnar danneskjold

April 25th, 2012
10:02 am

Dear JamVet @ 10:00, good morning, take your meds and quit blathering about something outside your experience. All of us cleaning up the mess can see what happened. You clearly do not know anything about the zombie banks of 2008.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:03 am

Bro – “no other person has ever been able to wreak that much havoc and live to see another day.”

:lol:

it’s the John McClane of legislation …

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:03 am

Joseph bids December 9, 2011. Anyone got a closer time to now?

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

April 25th, 2012
10:03 am

Metro Atlanta was one of the hottest markets before the crash so it is logical they they would be one of the biggest fallers (sp?).

Neighborhoods inside the perimeter have also hit a danger zone in that their values have fallen to such a low price that most banks will not make loans on that small of an amount.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:04 am

Adam:

Have you ever used Google? Theres plenty of examples. Especially of other dems doing it… Thats all they got becuase they certainly can’t site improvements in anything….

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:04 am

EJMoosa – “Freddie Mac and Fannie mae set the standards for the loans they would “purchase” from the brokers. ”

contrary to your assertion, neither of them EVER espoused setting aside prudential lending standards

no government agency did

banks and non-banking lending institutions did that all on their own because they knew they could sell the mortgages on and take the risk off their books.

NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH CRA

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:06 am

Since u set a six month timetable I think that works???? LOL….

Don't Tread

April 25th, 2012
10:06 am

Loose standards for borrowers + overbuilding + decrease in real wages + unemployment + massive student loan debt = the semi-permanent mess we have now. It’s not going away anytime soon. Hope and Change, indeed.

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
10:07 am

“NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH CRA”

and, in fact, CRA specifically mentions that nothing it it’s provisions overrides a bank’s ability to follow those prudent lending practices.

TaxPayer

April 25th, 2012
10:07 am

AAPL recovered from its correction rather quickly.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:07 am

“Because subprimes were 25% of the market, those perverse government-incentives pushed banks into a lot of rotten paper. Even without originating a single loan.”

exactly the opposite, Rags –

Banks (and other lending institutions) SOLD their loans — giving AAA ratings by S&P, the real culprits, by the way — to Goldman, Lehmans, and other investment banks …

AGAIN, NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CRA

JKL2

April 25th, 2012
10:09 am

finn- The Con mind is a difficult nut to crack.

Sorry we’re not all sheeple. Try your propoganda somewhere else.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:09 am

getalife

April 25th, 2012
10:09 am

“Britain in double-dip recession…” drudgey

Austerity failed so the cons want that failure here too.

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
10:10 am

“AGAIN, NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CRA”

And the first thing you know about someone who thinks CRA had anything to do with the housing crash is that they don’t know the difference between a regulation that controls WHO a bank lends to (not the CRA) and a regulation that controls WHERE lending must take place (the CRA)

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:10 am

Have you ever used Google? Theres plenty of examples

Then I’m sure you will have no trouble continuing to show us all how Obama continues to do this, even more recently.

And yes, you fit within the 6 month timetable. Well done. You haven’t convinced me he is still using this line of attack though.

ragnar danneskjold

April 25th, 2012
10:10 am

Q: How many legs does a dog have if you define its tail as a leg?
Obama: Who cares, let’s eat!

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:10 am

(whew) … okay, I think that catches me up with the posts …

Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

April 25th, 2012
10:10 am

So, Fannie and Freddie forced the ratings agencies to give those loan packages such sweet ratings?

Yah think?

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

April 25th, 2012
10:11 am

It’s called a trailer. It don’t fall in value. The neighborhood don’t matter. If you decide to pick up and move, you just put the wheels on it and take it with you. You don’t even have to put your stuff in boxes when you move. Just park it wherever you want to live, hook it up, and you’re in business again.

Try it, you might could like it. And don’t put your hand out and try and use my taxes to get out from under your mortgage just because you were brainless enough to buy a house.

Have a good Hump Day everybody. And lotsa luck unloading that overpriced shack you bought when you thought you were too good to live in a trailer.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:11 am

Finneus – EXACTLY …

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:11 am

Is there any economic indicators that prove Obama has made things better since assuming office?

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

April 25th, 2012
10:12 am

“Banks (and other lending institutions) SOLD their loans — giving AAA ratings by S&P, the real culprits, by the way — to Goldman, Lehmans, and other investment banks …

AGAIN, NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CRA”

True. It those loans were not falsely given AAA rating investors would not have purchased them and once that cash dried up the flow of new shaky loans would have been contained.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:12 am

Its a simple question really….

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:13 am

Joseph – you mean like the GDP going from negative to positive???

that kind of indicator???

ragnar danneskjold

April 25th, 2012
10:13 am

Dear USinUK @ 10:07, you err – banks bought mortgage-backed securities, now wholly unmarketable, to satisfy their CRA requirements. It is also true that banks originated and sold mortgages to securitizers, and did some securitizing on their own, to satisfy their CRA requirements. CRA was far more insidious than you think.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:13 am

Joseph bids December 13, 2011:

President Obama Claims “We Didn’t Know How Bad It Was.” “President Barack Obama said Tuesday he wishes he knew the full extent of the economic crisis when he took office, if only so he could have let Americans know just how tough the coming years would be. ‘I think we understood that it was bad, but we didn’t know how bad it was,’ Obama said in an interview with KIRO in Seattle. ‘I think I could have prepared the American people for how bad this was going to be, had we had a sense of that.’” (Jennifer Epstein, “Barack Obama On Economic Crisis: ‘We Didn’t Know How Bad It Was,” Politico’s “44″, 12/13/11)

Joseph is still winning the game of finding the closest time to now that Obama blamed Bush for something. Anyone else have a higher bid?

(btw the one dated January 30, 2012 on the same page provided doesn’t count because it is an Obama adviser, not Obama himself)

Aquagirl

April 25th, 2012
10:13 am

Here’s a great ad Adam…..

An RNC ad?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

I tune in for my morning laugh and Joseph obliges in .002 seconds. That’s gotta be a new record.

getalife

April 25th, 2012
10:13 am

willard does nothing but lie because he knows the gop voters will not challenge his lies.

We will cons.

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
10:13 am

“banks bought mortgage-backed securities, now wholly unmarketable, to satisfy their CRA requirements”

Don’t know much about the CRA do ya?

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
10:14 am

‘Is there any economic indicators that prove Obama has made things better since assuming office?’

is you got google…

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:14 am

getalife – I posted that early this morning for the numpties who are all about government austerity during an economic crisis …

ragnar danneskjold

April 25th, 2012
10:14 am

Dear Finn @ 10:10, you look through the wrong end of the telescope. Because of the implicit taxpayer guarantees, the FNMA and FHLMC mortgage-backed securities were golden, even if they were rotten. Thanks, suckers, I mean taxpayers.

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
10:15 am

“A lot of us are plagued by bad choices…… if we just took responsibility for them and quit blaming someone else for our bad decisions, this life would be a whole lot better.”

Nonsense, 71.

Not if you are too big to fail. And blame, hell! How about giving you hundreds of BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars to make everything “OK” again?

Poor “cleaning” rags,

The man NEVER offers up any credible links, quotes, facts, evidence or data and then gets miffed when someone else does, which blows away his made up stories…

Zombie banks notwithstanding!

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:15 am

Joseph: Is there any economic indicators that prove Obama has made things better since assuming office?

25 months of job growth counts I think. So does the DOW being around 13k.

By the way, if you’re going to argue he has nothing to do with those, then I’m saving it for the next time you decide to bring up gas prices (which you aren’t doing right NOW, since those prices are dropping and the right wing propaganda machine only brings that up when the prices move upwards).

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
10:15 am

USinner @ 10:03

I see you understand where I’m coming from.. :lol:

I see we’re on CRA the 13th #11; “Jason get’s foreclosed”

getalife

April 25th, 2012
10:15 am

willard’s big speech was a flop.

Flip flop.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:16 am

“Don’t know much about the CRA do ya?”

nope – but that doesn’t seem to stop him spouting off about it …

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:16 am

This contest is not just open to cons. Others can join in if they can find a closer time to now that Obama directly blamed Bush for something than Dec 13, 2011.

ragnar danneskjold

April 25th, 2012
10:19 am

My funniest personal experience was witnessing one of those zombie mortgage banks, broken by the lousy mortgage loans, getting reamed out by the CRA examiners for failing to serve their community – they ran out of cash and were unable to fund new loans, and the CRA examiners called that “failure to serve the community.” Hilarious, except to those who had worked so hard to please the CRA examiners by originating the rotten paper. (Had a “1″ rating for CRA before it went broke.) No good deed goes unpunished by the government (the true zombies in the calculus.)

Joe The Plumber Too

April 25th, 2012
10:20 am

Not bad news for me at all. My partner and I have picked up 4 foreclosed homes since the first of the year at about 25 cents on the dollar from existing neighborhood values. All rental properties with tenants now. While some people cry about the economy, others put money back into it for future income. We now have 14 rentals, all occupied and all fully paid for. Instead of crying over a situation, learn to make it work to your advantage people….that is the American way.

getalife

April 25th, 2012
10:20 am

USinUK,

I think willard will cut too much and we would be like Great Britain too.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:20 am

Adam:

Ok so I proved you wrong. How about his surrogates doing his dirty work for him. There are numerous examples of this you would admit….

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57410503-503544/obama-says-still-more-work-to-do-to-create-jobs/

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:20 am

Also, can’t help but notice the following arguments have died:

Wealthy Envy
“Class warfare”
“There’s no War on Women”
Gas Prices

I wonder why people have suddenly stopped using those…..

ragnar danneskjold

April 25th, 2012
10:21 am

You dummies have never done a CRA examination – I have done dozens. I know how the game works, because I was there at the start.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

April 25th, 2012
10:21 am

Bumper sticker

Mitt Romney
Pro Choice/Anti-Choice/Multiple Choice

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:22 am

Joseph: Ok so I proved you wrong

When did I assert anything about the subject that would indicate I was “wrong” if you answered my question?

getalife

April 25th, 2012
10:22 am

Good luck selling them joe.

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
10:22 am

‘Had a “1″ rating for CRA before it went broke’

Says the guy who blames the CRA…wow…

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
10:23 am

I think I get why the cons are writing so much long-ago repudiated, Cavuto (or is it Cavoodoo?) nonsense this morning.

It’s Arbor Day!

Go kill a tree cons; you’ll feel better…

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:23 am

Adam:

I don’t think so… Take a look at the facts…. There are 3 million less people in the workforce……… Did they simply disappear? It is a fact that unemployment is worse…. There no getting around that fact….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn4vxOr4wQo

Ari

April 25th, 2012
10:23 am

Atlanta has the worst wages in relation to the cost of living in the entire nation.
It is reaping what it sowed.

getalife

April 25th, 2012
10:23 am

Vote willard to go back to the recession.

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
10:23 am

I wonder why people have suddenly stopped using those…..

Did somebody shake the Etch-A-Sketch already? :)

Joe The Plumber Too

April 25th, 2012
10:24 am

getalife….why would I want to sell them, they will be passed down in the family.

Atlanta

April 25th, 2012
10:25 am

Usinuk 10:01

Toilet training – my sewer system is still a work in progress. My original toilet training was non existent.

My mother was a train track. Very cold and steely.

My father was Decatur, that kicked my mother 10 miles west because she was too noisy.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:25 am

Vote Hussein to continue the recession….

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
10:25 am

‘Sources close to Newt Gingrich say he will end his bid for the GOP presidential nomination next week.’

Jon Stewart needs some love today…

ragnar danneskjold

April 25th, 2012
10:25 am

What you really need to know is the ranking within the agencies – the “real” bank examiners, safety and soundness examiners, hold compliance and CRA examiners in total contempt, because of the lack of analytical skills required to do those statutory examinations.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:25 am

for someone who has done “dozens” of them, you know eff-all about the legislation in question.

Paul

April 25th, 2012
10:26 am

Okay, USinUK

You going to explain to these US-centric, it-only-happens-in-the-US-’cause-that’s-the-limit-of-my-vision bloggers how Fannie and Freddie managed to collapse the Irish housing market, or shall I?

Or will the umpteenth repeat still not get thru?

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
10:26 am

‘Vote Hussein to continue the recession….’

Sigh..another easily debunked piece of BS…

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:27 am

Oblama

April 25th, 2012
10:27 am

The faster Oblama is out the faster the economy will recover. Oblama’s policies are killing the housing market and now he is talking about raising taxes again. Good news is recent polls say Oblama is losing popularity with young voters that realize their future is being mortgaged by the Oblama administration. No matter what Oblama tries to make it this election is about the economy, jobs and reducing the alarming Fed debt. Reality is Oblama has no real plan and no clue of how to reverse this economic disaster.

JohnnyReb

April 25th, 2012
10:27 am

To all those who think I blamed the poor for the housing crisis – wrong.

The poor had a hand in it by taking loans they could not pay, however, if you will review my posts I stated “greed” tookover. Greed fueled by government. I believe many poor people were victims of greed run amuck.

It was not only the poor, middle to the upper class bit off more than they could chew. They rolled the dice and lost. Now, everyone pays for it.

As to the metro area, I stand by my original post. Too many low income people moving to the area buying starter homes. BTW, that did not help with the traffic congestion either.

Joe The Plumber Too

April 25th, 2012
10:28 am

you all be nice to each other, gotta go recharge some EBTs.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:28 am

Lord Help Us:

Easily proven if you watch the vid posted…

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:28 am

Ah, Atlanta, I think I see your problem …

you have separation anxiety combined with abandonment issues, scattered, covered and smothered with a deep neurosis brought about by the feeling that the rest of the state hates you despite being dependent upon your income.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:28 am

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
10:28 am

‘Good news is recent polls say Oblama is losing popularity with young voters that realize their future is being mortgaged by the Oblama administration.’

Cons are on a roll today with easily debunked BS…Surely, you have more than this?

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:29 am

Can you libs point to an example of where Obama looked like a real leader?

Bruno

April 25th, 2012
10:30 am

That suggests pretty strongly that there is something unique to Atlanta playing out here. Part of that explanation has to be our failure to address issues of traffic, water, infrastructure, etc. Part of it also has to be the fact that the mode of development taken by metro Atlanta for the last quarter century is now out of fashion in the modern real-estate market.

Jay–Once again, you’ve started with a predetermined conclusion, then have tried to fit the data to match your own particular bias. While it looks like Mad Max, ragnar and JohnnyReb have adequately challenged your view by pointing to larger forces at work, I will simply point to the Law of Supply and Demand. Atlanta STILL isn’t the hardest hit market in the US. According to this link, Atlanta isn’t even in the top 5 worst markets:

http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/americas-best-and-worst-housing-markets-2011.html

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
10:30 am

‘Easily proven if you watch the vid posted…’

Easily debunked if you understand the meaning of the word recession…and realize we have not been in one for years.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:32 am

JohnnyReb: Greed fueled by government.

Incorrect. It was greed fueled by Wall Street, and their mortgage packaging schemes.

MiltonMan

April 25th, 2012
10:35 am

“Let’s face it….we have a good ole’ boy government, sad schools,
crappy transportation, water issues….

Plenty of reasons for transplants to just not be that into us.”

Let’s see: a new high school about to open for the 2012-2013 5 minutes from the house. A couple of new housing developments in the area. A new 14th district in north Georgia.

Love for you ostriches to visit Detroit, Newark, Cleveland & truly see what depressed areas look like.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:35 am

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:35 am

Can you libs point to an example of where Obama looked like a real leader?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNYmK19-d0U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwgjYMw310U

Generation$crewed

April 25th, 2012
10:35 am

Adam,

http://www.rogerhedgecock.com/story/17592951/washington-times-obama-goes-back-to-2008-playbook-blame-bush

Do you have a point to all this?

Here is another helpful site…….

http://www.google.com

A box will appear near the middle in the top 1/4 of screen. Then type whatever you want to find. Any word u would like to know more about.

If you need any further help let us all know, we would be happy to help if you can’t figure out how it works

Jack

April 25th, 2012
10:35 am

No matter how you slice it, the real estate crash took place because builders were over-building to cash in on the liberal policies allowing banks or requiring banks to loan to those that had no intention of paying back the loans. Barney Frank certainly understood the human weakness that allowed this to happen: But political expediency was on his side.

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
10:35 am

Find me one – just one – Republican who holds the Wall Street banksters and casino capitalists, and their co-conspirators and handsomely rewarded servants in the GOP, even a tiny bit responsible for the attempted corporate destruction of capitalism and I’ll show you a RINO.

We’re creating… an ownership society in this country, where more Americans than ever will be able to open up their door where they live and say, welcome to my house, welcome to my piece of property. ~President George W. Bush, October 2004.

Welcome to the aftermath of the apocalyptic president…

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:35 am

Easily debunked if you understand the meaning of the word recession…and realize we have not been in one for years.

Precisely.

JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG

April 25th, 2012
10:36 am

Polling numbers for you CONs:

Gallup 4/21 – 4/23 1500 A 50 44 +6
Rasmussen Reports 4/21 – 4/23 46 53 -7
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 49 46 +3
CBS News/NY Times 48 42 +6
Quinnipiac 4/11 – 4/17 2577 RV 47 48 -1
CNN/Opinion Research 49 48 +1
Reuters/Ipsos 49 49 Tie

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:36 am

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

April 25th, 2012
10:36 am

Joseph

Well, he didn’t put you in the gulag on day 1 of his Presidency.

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
10:37 am

“Can you libs point to an example of where Obama looked like a real leader?”

to meet YOUR standards? No.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:37 am

“You going to explain to these US-centric, it-only-happens-in-the-US-’cause-that’s-the-limit-of-my-vision bloggers how Fannie and Freddie managed to collapse the Irish housing market, or shall I?”

I have found that if I DON’T start pounding my head against the brick wall in the first place, I don’t get the headaches …

so, bringing up the fact that the US and the REST of the world market investing in NON-Fanny / Freddie-backed mortgages (yes, Virginia, there WERE ABS securities that had NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH FANNIE AND FREDDIE)

well …

I think it might make their heads a’splode

not that that would be a bad thing

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

April 25th, 2012
10:37 am

Bruno-

As much as it pains me to defend Jay :) I think his more comparison of major cities is more valid. The list you provided includes major cities, cities and small towns.

I don’t think you can equate Lehigh Acres, FL to Atlanta.

JMHO

zeke

April 25th, 2012
10:38 am

In the past it has been the agenda of those in city government and police to “alter” or “not report” true crime statistics!

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
10:38 am

“on the liberal policies allowing banks or requiring banks to loan to those that had no intention of paying back the loans”

got any proof of that? Any at ALL?

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

April 25th, 2012
10:39 am

ugh…I have a mystery “more” in my post. Rats.

Atlanta

April 25th, 2012
10:39 am

Usinuk

Thanks for the psychoanalysis. Why is my job creation in the toilet? Midlife crisis?

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
10:39 am

Wow!!!! A topic on housing and it took 3 hours and 16 mins before Barney Frank’s name appeared. Seems like there is hope for change in this country. :lol: :lol:

yuzeyurbrane

April 25th, 2012
10:39 am

Now I know why we had all those multi-million dollar plus subdivisions with faux mega-mansions. None of the buyers could really afford them.

weetamoe

April 25th, 2012
10:39 am

I remember when then HUD czar Andrew Cuomo was trying to pressure credit unions to commit members’ savings to community *reinvestment* programs. For a while the threats were obvious, but the CU community fought back. It was also when the YK2 hysteria coincided with the *dot com* bubble to spread the wealth around before it all fell down. My oldest made a bundle while still in grad school and now owns free and clear a money pit in Atlanta—except for taxes, water bills, burglaries…

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
10:40 am

Good news is recent polls say Oblama is losing popularity with young voters…

LHU, to your point…

I think he may be correct.

The 18 – 34 year old vote is probably in danger – at the moment, but not in November – of going below two to one for Obama…

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:41 am

GS: Yes, you can help by telling me what search term you used to finally arrive at that one, and then you can tell me, honestly, how long it took you to find it.

You win, by the way, since your bid is April 20. I am attempting to verify that the speech mentioned, but not cited, was on or around that date.

By the way, also, if you’re going to pretend to be intellectually superior, I would like to know your views on how you will bolster public education so that many others who cannot afford private school can also become as intellectually superior as you.

barking frog

April 25th, 2012
10:41 am

Deflation is tough when
it’s your property value
deflating.

JKL2

April 25th, 2012
10:42 am

obama does nothing but lie because he knows the Democrat voters and liberal media will not challenge his lies.

We will libs.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:43 am

Can anyone say with a straight face that they are better off now than they were when Obama assumed the Presidency….

If YOU do not vote...then...

April 25th, 2012
10:44 am

stands for decibels

April 25th, 2012
10:44 am

None but the exceptionally bored are ever going to click on Youtube links posted by barely literate right wing propagandists, Joseph. Just so you know.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:44 am

FWIW … as much as I like Jay’s graph … (and I do) …

I think this graph from C-S is FAR more telling about house prices

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/case-shiller-chart-updated.png

what we’re seeing is a return to reality … not the end of the world as we know it

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:44 am

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
10:45 am

Doggone at 10:38,

The consequences of having ZERO intellectual curiosity and barely being able to spell the word research.

But I was wondering who would be the first gargantuanly uninformed rube to blame only Barney Frank.

Kudos, Jack…

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:46 am

“Can anyone say with a straight face that they are better off now than they were when Obama assumed the Presidency….”

(hand raised)

meeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

I can!!!

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:46 am

Can anyone say with a straight face that they are better off now than they were when Obama assumed the Presidency….

Yup.

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
10:46 am

‘Can anyone say with a straight face that they are better off now than they were when Obama assumed the Presidency….’

Yes.

GT

April 25th, 2012
10:46 am

Mass weapons of destruction, read my lips….

zeke

April 25th, 2012
10:46 am

I no longer live in the Atlanta area, THANK GOD! I did live there from ‘83 through ‘93, and, from my own personal experience I can tell you that houses ITP and OTP were grossly over priced! Several different times over that period we looked to upgrade to a slightly larger home in maybe a little better neighborhood. Each time, when trying to get a real value of the house and property, I could not get an answer from the real estate agent as to the actual heated square footage of the house! Reason? I was told that the size or square footage did not matter and had no relation to the actual value! HOW STUPID! We finally bought a home in the Austell, South Cobb county area! Looking back, the pricing of the houses was so over priced, even in those years that the collapse of the last few years was indeed warranted!

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:47 am

Good thing young people are finally waking up to understand Obama is an absolute failure….

http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2012/04/25/cu-boulder-student-blasts-obama

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

April 25th, 2012
10:47 am

Joseph

ME ME ME

I CAN

I CAN

Straight face, happy face….my face.

(pretty cute too)

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:47 am

have a new job with a company I la-la-LOVE … and we’ve been hiring like mad out in the states …

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:48 am

Only the far left zelots could say yes. You average ordinary non political person would never say that.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:48 am

Alright Joseph, you HAVE convinced me that Obama is using the line of attack pointing out the policies of the Bush admin and their effects.

Also, you outbid GS, so you win.

TaxPayer

April 25th, 2012
10:48 am

ME! TOO! Joseph. Much better off since Obama took office. Sorry to hear that you apparently are doing worse.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:48 am

Granny – hope you, the Zillettes and the Zillini are doing well …

:-)

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
10:48 am

Better off today than when the (W)orst ever was in office?

Hell no!

Bring back George!!! Bring back George!!! Bring back George!!!

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
10:49 am

“Can anyone say with a straight face that they are better off now than they were when Obama assumed the Presidency”

Yes

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
10:49 am

‘Good thing young people are finally waking up to understand Obama is an absolute failure….’

More easily debunked BS…


The Harvard University Institute of Politics survey of voters ages 18 to 29 showed Obama leading Mitt Romney 43% to 26%, up from the 37% to 26% head-to-head matchup in December.’

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:49 am

Just look at the right track wrong track polling… Most folks think Obama is leading us down a path to destruction….

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:49 am

Only the far left zelots could say yes.

No, I have a better job and a good relationship and so on. I don’t credit Obama with this, but I AM better off than I was before he took office. For the most part, trying to link the two together is a dangerous game for anyone trying to unseat the incumbent.

Aquagirl

April 25th, 2012
10:50 am

Can anyone say with a straight face that they are better off now than they were when Obama assumed the Presidency

Me. Plus a few hundred thousand non-chickenhawks who have one less war to get them killed, bust up their marriage, or generally ruin their lives for no particular reason.

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
10:50 am

Can anyone say with a straight face that they are better off now than they were when Obama assumed the Presidency….

Yeah, I can. What’s your point?

What is the Value?

April 25th, 2012
10:51 am

stands for decibels

April 25th, 2012
10:51 am

this graph from C-S is FAR more telling about house prices

I’ve seen it before and yeah, it is scary, because there’s no real reason to assume anything’s over yet.

Bruno

April 25th, 2012
10:51 am

As much as it pains me to defend Jay :) I think his more comparison of major cities is more valid. The list you provided includes major cities, cities and small towns.

Sorry, Steve, I’m working right now and threw up the first link I found. In scrolling back through previous pages, I see someone else put up a list of larger cities. From my memory, Las Vegas is often listed as the hardest hit market, along with Phoenix.

The bigger point today, Steve, is that the Law of Supply and Demand is immutable. Housing prices, like the prices of any commodity, are directly related to whether there is an oversupply or undersupply. As such, I view today’s column as sort of a Rorschach Test–people will see what they want to see beyond that simple market principle. Jay already tipped his hand a few days ago, complaining that his preferred urban model of high density housing combined with public transportation isn’t being followed here in Atlanta. I’ll look back through the other posts, and will provide my “psychological evaluation” of some of the other posters here in a minute.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:51 am

awwwwwwwwwwww … poor Joseph … economic confidence is at a 4-year high

http://www.gallup.com/poll/154076/Weekly-Economic-Confidence-Steady-Near-Four-Year-High.aspx

whatever shall he do!!!

Mighty Righty

April 25th, 2012
10:52 am

Monday, Jay tried to convince us that there was a burning desire for people in the suburbs to move to the city where they could walk to stores. In fact among the youth, the desire for a drivers license was dwindling. The only thing holding back this pending exodus from the burbs the the inner city was out touch government. The unstated message in my opinion is the get the people in the burbs to finance transportation for the people in the city. It is part of the redistribution of wealth the left so believes in. I am one of those guilty burbians. I am active in several organizatiobs where I have made the acquaintance of many. I know of no person who desires to return to the city. Frankly, there is nothing in the city that will improve our lives. Business has long known that the quality of work force residing in the burbs is superior to that available in the city and that work force will work for less rather than fight the time and traffic required to work in the city, let alone the parking problems, crime and other inconveniences. This will come as a big shock to city dwellers but we have modern stores of all types, excellent resturants, convenient entertaiment. I can’t think of any quality of life benefit available in the city that we don’t have access to in the burbs.
We are in the idst of the worst recovery from a recession in my lifetime with no relief in sight. This is not the time to dream up ways to go into debt for individuals or governemnt. If you like the city, stay there. We in the burbs are happy whee we are. Things may get a lt worse.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:52 am

It honestly looks like the far left now has complete control of the democrat party… Thats sad really because the country is still obviously center right still…

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/24/rep-holden-becomes-second-house-incumbent-ousted-by-challenger/

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
10:52 am

Joseph, are you worse off?

If so, do you blame the gov’t for your woes?

Please do not expect the gov’t to make up for your poor choices in life…

stands for decibels

April 25th, 2012
10:53 am

Can anyone say with a straight face that they are better off now than they were when Obama assumed the Presidency

(wavin’)

getalife

April 25th, 2012
10:53 am

Good for you joe.

stands for decibels

April 25th, 2012
10:54 am

You know what this thread needs? more off topic foxnews.com linkees.

getalife

April 25th, 2012
10:55 am

The libs are finally getting rid of the blue dogs.

Congrats libs.

Proud to be me

April 25th, 2012
10:55 am

My daughter and son-in-law are upside down with their house/mortgage. It is a shame that all the blame seems to be on the financial institutions. What about all the nar-do-wells who bought into the “American Dream” our political leaders (and I use the word “leaders” loosely) created by Fannie Mae . . . knowing fully well the real estate bubble was imminent. As a result the ones most hurt are people like my daughter and her husband who are working hard to make their payments in an economy that has gone to the dogs, paying on a mortgage that is far more than the value of their home and nothing, absolutely nothing is being done to help these people. If even if they refinance (as they have done) there is still no way they can sell their home for what it is valued and for what their mortgage is and expect to at least break even – they still come out in the red! Financial institutions are regulated by the government, or at least should be. You can’t tell me that the political creeps in Washington didn’t have a clue. Point the finger at the real source of this debacle!!

Paul

April 25th, 2012
10:55 am

Brosephus – USinUK

“it took 3 hours and 16 mins before Barney Frank’s name appeared.”

If this blog had more of an international demograpic we’d then here “Bwaney who?!!?” “and just how did he crash my country’s housing market?”

Then we’d spend more time trying to explain that yes, Americans really do know what they’re talking about -

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:55 am

It honestly looks like the far left now has complete control of the democrat party

Well it’s about time they stopped going right chasing the Republicans.

You happen to be wrong about that being the “far left,” but whatever. Here’s some actual data: http://voteview.com/blog/?p=317

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

April 25th, 2012
10:56 am

“Please do not expect the gov’t to make up for your poor choices in life…”

If only Democrat’s would listen to you. ;)

TaxPayer

April 25th, 2012
10:56 am

Perhaps Joseph is one of those Atlanta area home builders that’s waiting for the market to turn around.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
10:58 am

Last night we had Romney addressing the serious issues…. Meanwhile you had the President on a late night program making jokes.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:58 am

JKL2

April 25th, 2012
10:58 am

Can you libs point to an example of where Obama looked like a real leader?”

If you look real close you will see our fearless leader sitting at the kids table over in the corner. If I had to point to the “leader” in this picture, obama wouldn’t make the top 10 guesses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Situation_Room_(photograph)

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
10:59 am

Doggone/GA

April 25th, 2012
10:59 am

“Last night we had Romney addressing the serious issues…. Meanwhile you had the President on a late night program making jokes”

Last night you had Romney addressing the serious issues…. Meanwhile we had the President on a late night program making jokes

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:59 am

Government has a safety net to make up for circumstances beyond a person’s control, and to give people who make bad choices chances to learn from their mistakes instead of DYING. An attempt to dismantle the safety net is basically saying you don’t care about all that. An attempt to FIX it so that people don’t take advantage is fine, as long as it’s based on real problems and not made-up stuff.

St Simons - codewords are the new black

April 25th, 2012
11:00 am

Class welfare??? what a code word, bravo. (polite golf clap)

Its ignorant, meaningless, spits out fast on the AM radio,
and it sounds like “class warfare” hey, got “class” in it, starts
with “w” ends with an “r” sound, must be the same thang, duh.
gobble it up like good little dittoheads.

TaxPayer

April 25th, 2012
11:00 am

Poor Joseph. If only he believed. You have to believe that you can do better, Joseph, and you will. Believe, Joseph. I would say “HEAL” but I cannot reach your forehead from here.

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

April 25th, 2012
11:00 am

All these polls. Just because so many people buy McDonalds hamburgers doesn’t make them the best hamburger.

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
11:01 am

Only the far left zelots could say yes. You average ordinary non political person would never say that.

Wheeeee doggie!!!! Those goalposts have a 5.7L Dual Supercharged Turbo V8 with a HEMI. :lol:

getalife

April 25th, 2012
11:01 am

jk,

He was a nervous wreck but got him.

Thanks for listing that accomplishment.

Aquagirl

April 25th, 2012
11:01 am

Last night we had Romney addressing the serious issues…

Oh? And what were his solutions this week?

Don't Forget

April 25th, 2012
11:01 am

Can anyone say with a straight face that they are better off now than they were when Obama assumed the Presidency….

No doubt about it! My old 401k has recovered completely, I have a better job, I’ve been able to make extra payments on my mortgage and my new 401k is doing well. I’m still concerned about the 8% unemployed but 5% unemployment is considered full employment due to job changers and the chronically unemployed. No doubt about it, I’m better off as are most Americans.

JB

April 25th, 2012
11:03 am

Just announced. Durable goods just dropped 4.2 %…biggest drop since Jan 09……..Economy is flat…………Keep drinking what Obama is serving. He’s a total failure on the economy. Total. But, it’s really not his fault. He’s clueless……….with clueless people around him advising him.With an agenda.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
11:03 am

“Can you libs point to an example of where Obama looked like a real leader?””

you mean in addition to going into Pakistan and taking out Osama bin Laden???

stands for decibels

April 25th, 2012
11:03 am

we have modern stores of all types, excellent resturants, convenient entertaiment.

yeah, nothing says “excellent” like cookie-cutter corporate chain outlets.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 25th, 2012
11:04 am

You know what this thread needs? more off topic foxnews.com linkees.

AKA “rabbit holes.”

SSDD

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

April 25th, 2012
11:04 am

Joseph

Step and take personal responsibility for your failures.

It your thing….do what ya’ wanna do….

I can’t tell ya’…who to sock it to

Paul

April 25th, 2012
11:04 am

“Can you libs point to an example of where Obama looked like a real leader?””

You’d think the Right would be ecstatic over ordering 30,000 additional troops to Afghanistan and killing, not capturing, terrorists and ordering the successful strike on Anwar al-Awlaki.

But maybe they’ve turned over a new leaf and they’re all civil libertarian pacifists?

Let the deflections begin.

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
11:04 am

It honestly looks like the far left now has complete control of the democrat party…

Leave it up to the Democratic Party to be so friggin’ behind times.. GOP embraced the individual mandate in the 90’s, and the Dems finally came around in the late 2000’s. Now the Democratic Party is starting to purge moderates. That ship sailed a long time ago in the GOP.

stands for decibels

April 25th, 2012
11:04 am

And the saddest thing about the ‘burbs is how the sh-ttiest restaurants—the Olive Gardens and Red Freakin’ Lobsters and don’t even get me on the ghastly horror that is Longhorn—ALWAYS have lines outside on Friday nights.

I try to be understanding about my fellow man, but I see that and all can do is mutter to my better half and my kid, “these people are too stupid to breathe, and they deserve the sullen service and the crap food they’re paying entirely too much for.”

Bruno

April 25th, 2012
11:05 am

JamVet: Not only are our politicians some of the most corrupt and inept in the country, our titans of commerce are as well. This state had a record number of bank closings, costing innocent people hundreds of millions of dollars. With virtually no justice for the criminal negligence therein, of course.

ME: Georgia’s legislators repealed Barnes’ efforts in the next legislative session, and the unscrupulous banking practice continued in Georgia, which later became a national focal point for the national financial collapse of 2008 because of Georgia’s heavy investment in the home mortgage bubble, which collapsed.

I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised by the responses of Jam and ME. No mention of personal responsibility or any other factor for that matter. All the fault of the greedy bankers.

carlos came out of the shoot blaming crime, a reasonable assertion, though Jay countered by saying that crime is falling ITP. Of course, if you compare the crime rates in Cobb and Gwinnett (even with their gang problems) to those of DeKalb and Fulton, the choice is crystal clear. Much safer in the ‘burbs.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
11:06 am

:lol:

I love it when people start pulling out economic indicator headlines when they have no effing CLUE what they’re talking about

when you exclude non-military aircraft, durable goods investment GREW, you numpty – making economists think that economic growth will be STONGER than previously thought

Sales of non-military capital equipment excluding planes climbed for a second month, prompting some economists to raise first-quarter forecasts for gross domestic product

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-25/orders-for-u-s-durable-goods-drop-by-the-most-in-three-years.html

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
11:06 am

You average ordinary non political person would never say that.

As always with Joseph’s compelling, fact-filled essays, I’m convinced…

ESPECIALLY when he uses an absurdly partisan op-ed Faux News link. (eye roll)

Mighty Righty

April 25th, 2012
11:06 am

US in UK, Nice try. You put lip stick on a pig. Really! 41% all of whom are Deflectocrats!

Last week, forty-two percent of Americans said the U.S. economy is “getting better” while 53% said it is “getting worse.” Four in 10 (41%) consumers rated the current economy as “poor,” while 15% rated it excellent or good. All of these ratings are close to those Gallup found when the index peaked during the week ending March 25.

Democrats’ Economic Confidence Ties Two-Year High

Democrats remain more positive than independents and Republicans on Gallup’s Economic Confidence Index, as they have for the past several years. However, the range between these ratings has increased in 2012, with Democrats’ score of the past two weeks, +13, matching its two-year high.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
11:07 am

Lord Help Us:

Absolutely I’m worse off and if you weren’t so blinded by ideology you’d see you were to.

My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)

April 25th, 2012
11:07 am

“Obama will have to bail those banks out again.”
“If only our willfully ignorant, spinally challenged Republicans”

Well, the ADULT conversation was good while it lasted.

Now lets get back to the tried and true, guaranteed to solve the problem, name calling and partisan sniping. :roll:

Jefferson

April 25th, 2012
11:07 am

It would take a child like attitude to blame their situation on a president, unless you are in the military.

Bruno

April 25th, 2012
11:08 am

MistyFyed: A good buddy bought a $500k home in he could barely afford as a retirement investment. Instead of saving, he was banking on selling his home and banking the equity as his retirement account…

Ten brownie points for Misty. Good call.

Ayn Rant: Probably God is punishing us for being too lenient with immigrants, racial minorities, gays, and women seeking contraceptives and abortions. The Governor should call the good old boys of the Legislature back in session to deal with our economic problems by improving public morality. Or, perhaps the Governor should lead us in prayer from the steps of the Capitol. Remember ol’ Sonny’s rain dance? We nearly drowned in the result!

Minus 100 brownie points for Ayn. I wonder if she really believes the crap she prints here.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
11:08 am

Stocks rose, sending benchmark indexes higher for a second day, after better-than-estimated earnings from Apple Inc. to Boeing Co. (BA) and as investors awaited a Federal Reserve decision on interest rates. The Standard & Poor’s 500 Index climbed 1.2 percent to 1,388 at 10:25 a.m. in New York.

yep … nothing says that the economy is in a nosedive quite like stock prices RISING

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former — Albert Einstein

Paul

April 25th, 2012
11:08 am

USinUK

“I love it when people start pulling out economic indicator headlines when they have no effing CLUE what they’re talking about”

Who needs clues when you have The Google and The Internets?

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
11:09 am

Paul

Those powerful Americans…. :)

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
11:09 am

JamVet:

Facts are facts no matter where they come from.. I realize they sometimes become a real problem for libs but its something you simply must deal with…..

getalife

April 25th, 2012
11:09 am

rag,

Yes, have you ever admitted you are wrong?

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
11:10 am

mighty righty – awwwwwwwwwww … diddums … do you not understand the concept of “and rising”???

Lord Help Us

April 25th, 2012
11:10 am

‘Absolutely I’m worse off and if you weren’t so blinded by ideology you’d see you were to.’

Well, Joseph, why are you worse off?

As for me, I am better off than I was when Obama took office by every measurable characteristic I can think of. For you to ‘know’ otherwise illustrates a lethal combination of hubris and ignorance…

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
11:11 am

Paul – “Who needs clues when you have The Google and The Internets?”

oy to the vey …

the headline number is nice … but it’s the supporting data that’s important.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 25th, 2012
11:11 am

Facts are facts…

Repetition is repetition.

getalife

April 25th, 2012
11:11 am

joe,

Take some personal responsibility for being worse off.

Get off the blog and get a job.

Paul

April 25th, 2012
11:13 am

“mighty righty – awwwwwwwwwww … diddums … do you not understand the concept of “and rising”???”

Whoo-wheee, USinUK, you’re gonna get banned!

Then Redneck Convert’s gonna figure out how to drive over there in his F-450 so he can come calling -

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
11:14 am

“Absolutely I’m worse off ”

holy moly … what did YOU invest in that it hasn’t rebounded since 2008??? my retirement accounts have come back and are growing nicely …

don’t blame Obama for your numptiness

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
11:15 am

Paul – what can I say??? i’m full of P&V today … :-D

Midnight Train Schedule

April 25th, 2012
11:15 am

May 1, 2012 Newt finally heads back home to Jawga!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-Q6YX6ikZY&feature=fvsr

getalife

April 25th, 2012
11:15 am

Perhaps joe should look in the mirror to see why he is worse off.

Oscar

April 25th, 2012
11:16 am

I see a lot of large apartment complexes being built in Atlanta in the last few years. And high rise condos. Are people going into those places instead of buying houses.
Also would like to see comparisions of unemployment in Atlanta and the other cities in the chart.

On first glance it seems high gas prices may be driving people into apartments and condos.

Tundra Dude

April 25th, 2012
11:16 am

Joseph wrote:
Of course not Jay! Its George Bush’s fault silly

Bingo! Got that right!

Way back in 2004 the FBI warned of “epidemic mortgage fraud” which could be disastrous if left unchecked.

The Bush response was to just downsize their white collar crime unit….those evil partypoopers!
Then later, the FBI was required to form an “alliance” (become bedmates) with the Mortgage Bankers Assn.

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
11:16 am

Generation$crewed

April 25th, 2012
11:17 am

Adam
April 25th, 2012
10:41 am

I typed what you asked for as soon as I read you had asked for it. I dunno maybe a few minutes ago, no more than 15. I typed Obama Blames Bush administration, then hit enter.

I went to Public Schools.

My opinions would be to hold students more accountable and more competetive between the students. I would also argue to get more people into the teacher pool. One way would be to let more people with actual experience teach.
Or do a better job of explaining that every person does not need to go to college. Bring back more of the career tech programs instead of trying to treat each and every child education the same, since each child is not the same.
But mostly ones education must come from a desire within.
No amount of money being thrown at the problem can cause the children to want to be educated

Got any other off topic questions you need answered? Maybe something you think will trip me up a really tough one. Or maybe just something you are too lazy to look up yourself?

JKL2

April 25th, 2012
11:17 am

brosephus.- 5.7L Dual Supercharged Turbo V8 with a HEMI.

5.7L refers to engine displacement. Supercharged refers to a blower which is a compression device. Turbo is another form of compression device. V8 refers to the engine configuration and number of cylinders. Hemi is a reference to a type of combustion chamber popularized by Chrysler (but used by other companies as well.)

I know you were making a joke, but try to stick with something you know instead af spewing gibberish.

godless heathen©

April 25th, 2012
11:19 am

Washington DC According to the National Weather Service, cool April temperatures across the nation have brought the average US temperatures for 2012 to exactly normal. Dr. Alan Cloud of the NWS said that it is highly unusual to have this much normalness across the entire country. “We have to go back to 1925 to find a year with such normal temperatures”, he stated.

When asked about the unusual normalness of temperatures across the nation, Dr. C. Little of the Climate Change Initiative pointed out that this kind of normalness is in line with major climate change models. In a statement released last Friday, she said, “The models predict that sometimes temperatures will be above normal, sometimes they will be below normal, and sometimes they will just be normal.”

The NWS predicts that next week above normal temperatures will return, followed by below normal temperatures later in the month.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
11:19 am

Joseph: Absolutely I’m worse off

How so?

Bruno

April 25th, 2012
11:19 am

Steve: Atlanta has always been this way because nobody wants to clean up the city govt. If we had a decent govt here maybe some of our tax money would go to the police and not corruption. And I’m a liberal…

5 Brownie points for you, Steve.

Moreover, the close connection of our state legislators to the corporate magnates within ALEC, and other contacts of power/wealth on the money centered current American landscape, is keeping Georgia’s legislators from passing critical progressive legislation which would move our state forward for all citizens.

Another minus 100 Brownie points for ME.

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
11:20 am

All None of it the fault of the greedy bankers.

Hello? Is this thing on?

We have an integrity-free Republican government – arguably the worst int he entire country – not even taking a causal glance at dozens of integrity-free banksters in this state. MANY of whom went belly up due to their greed and lack of market discipline.

And who criminally mismanaged and lost hundred of millions of dollars belonging to hard-wroking, good Georgia citizens.

What will it ultimately take for you Republicans to hold these unindicted criminals and casino capitalists responsible for anything???

Peadawg

April 25th, 2012
11:22 am

Jay, I’m disappointed. When are we going to get some newt-skinned sheets now that he’s done?

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
11:23 am

Interesting point: when Obama calls out Romney for being born with a “silver spoon in his mouth” isn’t he calling out his own kids as well?

JKL2

April 25th, 2012
11:23 am

getalife- Thanks for listing that accomplishment.

That’s what obama is good for: Taking credit for other people’s work if the outcome is favorable, or placing blame on others if it isn’t. He does “look” like a leader standing at the podium. Too bad it’s only looks, not substance.

Bruno

April 25th, 2012
11:24 am

Finn: Nope, it was more the case of middle class people taking advantage of all those bank schemes and over-extending themselves.

Plus 50 Brownie points for Finn. 5 points for the content of his message, and extra 45 points for not trotting out his usual anti-corporate rants.

Poor Boy: First, the chart you provided shows the rate of change in home prices for various cities not actual prices. Home prices in Atlanta, for example, have been lower than those in Denver for a long time. What the chart really says is that Denver home prices didn’t decline as rapidly as Atlanta home prices.

25 Brownie points for Poor Boy for slicing through another of Jay’s half-truths. I like your style and substance, Poor Boy. Thanks for spending time at the JB Blog.

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
11:25 am

holy moly … what did YOU invest in that it hasn’t rebounded since 2008???

USinner

I think we’ve found a McMansion owner. :)

Oscar

April 25th, 2012
11:28 am

JKL2

April 25th, 2012
11:17 am
_______

But Bro just paid a guy $500 to attach a hemi to his engine. Now he is going to be upset.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 25th, 2012
11:28 am

…when Obama calls out Romney for being born with a “silver spoon in his mouth”…

Can you substantiate that assertion?

Oscar

April 25th, 2012
11:28 am

JKL2

April 25th, 2012
11:17 am
_______

But Bro just paid a guy $500 to attach a hemi to his engine. No

Bruno

April 25th, 2012
11:29 am

Common Sense: Not one comment in your blog about Atlanta area leading in fraudilent loans? And that pushed up prices much higher than they should have been in the first place? You really do try to paint a one sided picture, don’t you?

25 Brownies for CS. As a side note, someone tried to enlist me in a fraudulent scheme to sell my commercial property in 2007. Would have made an extra $20K, but turned it down on principle.

USMC

April 25th, 2012
11:29 am

I don’t disagree with Comrade(term of affection) Bookman entirely; HOWEVER,

Lesson #1 in business: Buy Low and Sell High!

Bookman Bolsheviks (I am totally kidding) don’t cry that no one told you, but NOW is the time you want to BUY.
Housing prices are way down AND mortgage interest rates are at historic LOWS.
Today’s 30 yr fixed rates are as follows: 3.875% (5% down pmt) for conforming and 3.75% for FHA(3.5% down pmt). Fulton county will GIVE you up to $25,000 for closing costs and principal reduction if you qualify under the Neighborhood Stabilization Program, etc.
Mortgage lending has eased tremendously from the gridlock we experienced in 2010 & 2011.
As a local Real Estate Advisor, I am busier now than I have been in the last 24 months.
So, take advantage of the great opportunities staring you in the face. :-)

Adam

April 25th, 2012
11:30 am

when Obama calls out Romney for being born with a “silver spoon in his mouth” isn’t he calling out his own kids as well?

First of all, he did not call out Romney for having a silver spoon in his mouth. Second, Romney’s dad did not grow up poor, contrary to Romney’s assertion. So – wrong all the way around on this one.

JamVet

April 25th, 2012
11:30 am

JKL2, after voting for GWB twice, Nathan Deal once and Saxby Chambiss twice, you guys wouldn’t be able to recognize a leader if one fell in your lap.

Bruno

April 25th, 2012
11:31 am

USinUK: I agree – I wish the lovely, colorful graph went back to 2000 … so that it could chart the meteoric rise, rather than just look at the fall

50 Brownie Points for USinUK. 20 for making a good point, 20 more for not toeing the Party Line, and 10 more just because she’s super cool.

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
11:32 am

I know you were making a joke, but try to stick with something you know instead af spewing gibberish.

JKL2

I happen to own a 327 V8 with a 4 Barrel Rochester carb mated to a 2-speed Powerglide transmission in a 1963 Chevy Impala 4 door Sedan. I do know a thing or two about automobiles, but it’s apparent you know absolutely nothing about humor. Obviously, you’re the only one who took that seriously, so maybe you need to look in the mirror and see where the real problem lies. In other words, “Lighten up Francis.” :roll:

Don't Forget

April 25th, 2012
11:33 am

USinUK

April 25th, 2012
11:06 am

Good catch! Got some pathological liars on this blog. Always check the facts.

Bruno

April 25th, 2012
11:34 am

EJ Moosa: The truth is that if class welfare had not been distributed, via 0 down loans, no doc verification, and other methods courtesy of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, who are backed with the full faith of the Federal printing presses, the situation would have been very different today. But the government was just trying to help, weren’t they? When you inflate the pool of buyers artificially, eventually it will rise to a peak and then collapse.

25 Moose points for telling it how it was, Moosa.

ME: After numerous attempts to repeal this act and millions of lobbying dollars showered on Congress, it was finally dismantled through former President Bill Clinton approval of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA) or Financial Modernization Act of 1999. There has been much criticism and controversy surrounding its repeal and many believe it opened the door to financial destruction. In particular, its repeal has been connected as a primary contributory factor to the current economic disaster, because it broke down the financial barriers, which prior to its repeal, safeguarded our financial institutions.

Okay, ME. Plus 25 points. You’re only 75 in the hole now.

Oscar

April 25th, 2012
11:34 am

Would have made an extra $20K, but turned it down on principle.

_________

On principle and the wish to stay out of jail. Good move though. Lots of people wound up in jail. fro doing tha.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

April 25th, 2012
11:35 am

Well, there’s no question about it, when our great-great-great grandkids write about us in the history books, they’ll be laughing at us as victims of the biggest theft in US history. One day some guy on Wall Street thought of buying a rating agency’s approval for what was like a bunch of cut-to-size newspaper scrunched between a pair of $20 bills. Except in this case it was a couple good mortgages sandwiched around a whole bunch of bad ones. After awhile everybody was in on the act. They couldn’t issue enough mortgages. And nobody wanted to know if somebody could afford to buy a house. People that couldn’t spell mansion a few months before were living in one. Counties and cities bought the junk as a way to keep from raising taxes. Everybody was getting rich. And people like kayaker were pounding on things to get enough houses ready to sell.

And then one day somebody broke the rules and said, “Hey, you know what? This stuff is worthless.” Then people couldn’t borrow nothing and people that just kept refinancing their houses found theirselfs living in a shell that wasn’t worth half of what they borrowed for it. Millions of people got laid off. Housing just collapsed. Banks were stuck with all kind of bad debt and none of them were lending anything. People’s retirement savings were cut in half.

And how many went to jail for this theft? Zero. Nobody. Zilch. Everybody was in on the thievery and nobody wanted to admit being a thief.

That pretty much explains why we’re in the mess we’re in today. And even people that stayed away from the bad deal are having to pay the price for it. We’ll stick a kid in prison for having more than a ounce of pot. But we won’t even bring charges against the people that stole trillions of bucks.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
11:36 am

Even libs would have to admit Romney looked really good last night…..

http://nation.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/25/romneys-killer-speech

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
11:36 am

But Bro just paid a guy $500 to attach a hemi to his engine. Now he is going to be upset.

Oscar

Nah. The cost of tuning the hemi engines are not worth the investment from what I’ve heard from owners. I had thought about buying the SRT8 Challenger, but I’d rather keep my Impala and lower maintenance fees.

However, I did think about getting a guy to attach a hemi to my daughter’s tricycle. :roll:

Bruno

April 25th, 2012
11:38 am

Moderate Line: Jay has implied in previous post that housing prices are plumenting because people perfer places which are no heavily dependent on automobile. However, the lastest statistics just do not support such a conclusion. In fact Atlanta metro area is still the 7th fastest growing metor area. Plus the metro areas which are in the top 10 are not exactly big on high density housing. Only two cities in the top 10 for transit systems are in the top 10 for growth.

Running out of Brownie Points to give out, and a new thread has appeared, but hip-hip-hooray for telling the whole truth, Moderate Line. So sad that we’re usually treated to only half the story at the JB Blog. Good work.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
11:38 am

GS: I agree with all of your statements about education. I would add that I think teachers should be allowed to fail the students, on the merits of the course material, without fear of parents or outside pressure to do the opposite. I also disagree with standardized testing on anything but math and science – things that can actually be quantified legitimately.

I do, however, think money can help the situation. While you cannot motivate students just by throwing money at the problem, you CAN motivate students by hiring motivated teachers. And you can make teaching more of an incentive by paying them better and not demonizing them wholesale. But the bottom line is teachers need more freedom and pay, and money needs to be provided for an increase in teachers and their pay. It also needs to be provided to allow for school supplies and such if students and their parents cannot afford those materials.

Brosephus™

April 25th, 2012
11:38 am

Dang it.. copied wrong smilie..

Oscar, your smiley was supposed to be a true smilie. :)

They BOTH suck

April 25th, 2012
11:41 am

Joseph

“Even libs would have to admit Romney looked really good last night…..

If you are a Log Cabin Republican that is all fine and good, however that doesn’t mean all “libs” fit that category of sexual preference………. Do your thing man, but don’t project on to others what you do in your bedroom

Bruno

April 25th, 2012
11:43 am

On principle and the wish to stay out of jail. Good move though. Lots of people wound up in jail. fro doing tha.

Oscar–As it turns out, staying out of jail is one of my main principles in life.

See you on the next thread.

Matti

April 25th, 2012
11:43 am

I almost had a heart attack during my refi last year. Literally, I was so angry at those lying, deceitful *bleep* faced bankers, and their little *bleep* *bleep* appraisers, that they had to have a new one every couple of weeks come out (at my expense) to drop the value again, and their constant phone calls, each one negating something they’d told me the week before. Buncha lying scumbag sleazoid *bleep*ing *bleeps*! (breathe… breathe….)

HINT: being responsible, following the rules, living within your means, and paying your bills on time, doesn’t get you jack shizz is this corporate-owned country. Maybe it did once, but not anymore. Buncha *bleeping* (breathe.. breathe… )

Okay, I’m done here.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 25th, 2012
11:46 am

You’re holding back, Matti. Tell us how you really feel.

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
11:52 am

I sure hope dems keep Debbie Downer around… This woman is certainly going to help the GOP easily win the Whitehouse and the Presidency in Nov…. Thanks Deb….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OfObd2qvLg&feature=youtu.be

Joseph

April 25th, 2012
11:54 am

Adam:

I suppose you must have grown up along side the Romneys… Wow you must have much insight….

They BOTH suck

April 25th, 2012
12:01 pm

“This woman is certainly going to help the GOP easily win the Whitehouse and the Presidency in Nov…”

Thanks for the insight, didn’t know that winning the WH and the Presidency was two separate elections………

Learn something new every day ……… if you want too

zeke

April 25th, 2012
12:03 pm

thanks gov perdue and repubs for repealing predatory lending in GA…..

last nite on pbs frontline they showed the fiscal collapse and had a few seconds on it about gov barnes trying to fight predatory lending….minute barnes defeated the first order of business to repeal predatory lending……thank you greedy repubs and coward dems!

unfortunately, with larger minority population and their desire to share in american dream, many agents, brokers, bankers took advantage of them. not limited to minorities but my bet is they contributed to more foreclosures per capita and thus ATL a leader.

also minority unemployment higher…..it’s a shame but the housing euphoria pushed by clinton and bush was ill fated.

don’t think we will ever recover given this state’s political tendancies….

Jm

April 25th, 2012
12:08 pm

Atl is so diversified no one has a reason to go there

A diversified economy can be a liability

No “clustering” effect

Trolls Bane

April 25th, 2012
12:13 pm

Jay, I think you have missed a very big part of the picture, you come close to getting it but not quite all the way.

The local economy has been focused on residential development for a long time, and the zoning practices and ordinances are focused on residential development and related retail, and largely exclude any sort of manufacturing or industry. Take for example Newton County, the county is was attempting to turn into a Republican bedroom community, and now there are LOTS of empty lots and un-developed subdivisions. The local govenment is dominated by real estate developers. They have made it very very difficult to start a business, or have any business other than retail. Now that the bottom has dropped out of the real estate game, there are no manufacturing or similar businesses to provide long-term / stable employment.

Watkins

April 25th, 2012
12:28 pm

We’re witnessing the second ‘burning of Atlanta.” While foreclosures continue in metro area and jobs vanish and house prices plummet, we read of the 2012 accomplishments of the GA Gen’l Assmbly: (not all these bills passed mind you, but the 40 days didn’t get spent focusing on the real needs of Georgia) bill to legalize living on boats; to stop tastings in liquor stores; ban dead-head logging; revoke teacher bonuses; ban assisted suicide; fund corporately operated charter schools with state money (while cutting funding for traditional schools); let charter school students play ball on traditional school teams (who’s responsible?); anti abortion bills; online education bills and all the while GBP estimates that lobbyists spent over 10,000 per day at the Capitol.
Metro was treated badly, but the farmers are still taking it on the chin, too. Produce rots in the field while the workers flee the inhospitable environment.

My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)

April 25th, 2012
12:41 pm

Adam

April 25th, 2012
10:03 am
Joseph bids December 9, 2011. Anyone got a closer time to now?
________________________________________________________________________

Make a hole, make it WIDE.

Goalposts coming through.

Planned Ahead

April 25th, 2012
1:10 pm

They only plummet if you sell them. If you have paid them off early and have no debt then you are sitting pretty. I am just remodeling so if and when I choose to sell I will get more money and a quicker sale. Always pay the bank back as quickly as possible instead of buying, buying and buying more “things”. Drive your cars until they can drive anymore, then pay cash for the next one, a used one since they just depreciate the minute you drive them off the lot. Fiscal responsibility is simple people, slow and steady always wins the race.

Oblama

April 25th, 2012
1:16 pm

Jay – The crime rate on the GT campus is alarming. Who would want to live in that environment? I have a son at GT and his car has been broken in to a robbed twice in the last year at his apartment. He lives basically on the GT campus in a high rise. I make sure he is locked, loaded and knows how to use it. Whoever messes with my nerd is going to be in for a big surprise. I have lived in Atlanta twice and that was to long. South Georgia is the place to be. Close to the shore and away from gangs.

JKL2

April 25th, 2012
1:32 pm

jamvet- JKL2, after voting for GWB twice, Nathan Deal once and Saxby Chambiss twice, you guys wouldn’t be able to recognize a leader if one fell in your lap

Yes, I would, because I’ve worked with several great ones. Bush was a good leader. Made some bad decisions trying to appease the Demwits and got stabbed in the back for trying. Never voted for Deal or Chambliss so I’ll take you’re word for it.

I have voted against obama three times though. The only thing he knows about leadership is how to pronounce it when it comes up on the teleprompter.

zeke

April 25th, 2012
1:38 pm

i find it amazing that given the loss that occurred in 2008 (11trillion but likely more), reduced or flat line salaries for working joes, home equities crushed, yet well to do have enjoyed major rebound but these job creators have not created jobs in significant numbers. now the right wants to decimate the remaining middle class, unregulate wall st for more plunder, reward rich with disproportionate tax breaks, give corporations more money to funnel into elections…..and this is going to make america better. the right likes to harken to the founding fathers. wonder if they would approve the income/wealth disparity many earnestly tried to flee from.

“Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor.”

– Thomas Jefferson

Oblama

April 25th, 2012
1:38 pm

Isn’t this Oblama economy recovering? AJC keeps saying there is a LEAP in the jobs reports – if .001 % can be a leap. My dead grandma can leap further than that. The sooner Oblama is OUT the sooner the real recovery will begin – if it’s not already to late. I’m no fan of and didn’t vote for BUSH II but blaming him for everything is a joke. When he came in to office history shows that we were headed for a recession brought on during the Clinton administration. Then 911 happened. Guess you Dem conspiracy theorists blame Bush for that too. Just as you blamed him for a natural disaster called Katrina. Bush supposedly caused the “radical muzlems” to bomb the Twin Towers and the hurricane to hit New Orleans. We had a serious drought the last two years Bush was in office. Blame him for that too. Using that reasoning then Oblama is responsible for everything that has happened during his term in office. Time to move Oblama out. There was a poll on Yahoo showing the young voters are no longer buying what Oblama is selling. The “Reality Show” President’s popularity has peaked and is falling. Time for CHANGE. This election is about the economy, jobs and reducing the alarming Fed debt. It’s not about smoke and mirrors B.S. of the Dems. NOT about class warfare/ age warfare/ sex warfare/ victim warfare/ race warfare…. no matter how hard the Dems spread the B.S.

JKL2

April 25th, 2012
1:39 pm

brosephus- I happen to own a 327 V8 with a 4 Barrel Rochester carb mated to a 2-speed Powerglide transmission in a 1963 Chevy Impala 4 door Sedan

Sweet! My first car was a 65 Lemans convertible with a 326/powerglide. It had a one-throated two barrel. For fun I had a 71 Nova SS. Sold them both when I went to college. Guess I should have waited for a president who wants to trade student loan forgiveness for votes…

mike 'hussein' smith

April 25th, 2012
1:40 pm

Two reasons folks may be souring on the “metro” counties that are farthest from the city of Atlanta: crappy highways and higher gasoline prices.

Oblama

April 25th, 2012
1:42 pm

eke – Man devours his own kind. Uh – only cannibals. There are many animals that devour their young. For example, lions, tigers, gators, crocs, Dems, etc. etc. etc.

Oblama

April 25th, 2012
1:46 pm

OblamaNation = blame everyone but yourself for whatever goes wrong and never admit you were equally responsible for this Fed debt and economic disaster. Both parties are to blame and if you kept voting Congress back in office to continue their fraud you are likewise responsible. Term Limits – Perot was right – he was honest – he was wise – he didn’t have a chance.

Oblama

April 25th, 2012
1:49 pm

Gone today – here tomorrow.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 25th, 2012
1:52 pm

“I’m just a hunk, a hunk of burning love
Just a hunk, a hunk of burning love”
– Thomas Jefferson

zeke

April 25th, 2012
1:57 pm

oblama, take it up with jefferson on the cannibal stuff, i think the guy was just trying to point out what pricks some human beings are. i agree with you on both parties at fault. just think there is a sliver of hope for dems or eisenhower type repubs…..ronnie blew it with this trickle down stuff and ss should have been made actuarily sound day one.

Adam

April 25th, 2012
2:22 pm

Boris Badnoff

April 25th, 2012
2:49 pm

Some cynics would say the reason crime is down in metropolitan Atlanta is when the victims left the criminals left. It’s like saying shark bites in Lake Lanier are down. I have noticed changes. Used to there were literally hundreds of prostitutes working midtown. Nowadays you rarely see them and the ones that are there are beneath homely. Did they all go to the internet or Columbia? Currently my house is worth more than my car. When those two flip flop and I live in my car I will have upgraded my abode. If it was fair to call the tents people lived in back in the 1930s Hooverville, would it be fair to call the new living quarters Messiahville? No, of course, not. Dubyaville.

zeke

April 25th, 2012
3:47 pm

reading some of the posts, this ragar guy does not know squat. had wall st not abused the derivative market beyond anyone’s wildest dreams we might not have been in this mess. thank phil gramm, clinton and rubin and others. the cra was abused but the derivative market took it exponential.

aCitizen

April 25th, 2012
5:47 pm

Back in the 1970s, there was a severe housing bubble. I seem to recall that there was somebody who decided that in order to put that right, then landlords would be allowed to charge up to 1/3 income for their tenants, and housing loans could be ALLOWED for UP TO 1/3 income. Was it someone in the FHA? Well, the end of it was that all landlords decided that all tenants should pay 1/3 income, and all buyers were pointed to houses that required loans at 1/3 income. Not a no-exception thing, but instead of 1/3 being the limit, it became the general practice. Kind of like since the speed limit is 65 then everybody must go 65. Here the thing. It used to be in the 1950s and 1960s that the AVERAGE cost of a house should be no more than 2 years AVERAGE salary!!!

It is my opinion that until this returns to normal — yes like it was 50 years ago — the housing problem will continue. People cannot afford housing, and so the demand will continue to go down until the prices are where people can afford housing. Housing should not be 1/3 of income. It should be 2 years salary. The average salary in this country is about $40,000. So the average cost of a house — AVERAGE I SAY — should be about $80,000. There should be much housing which is far less than $80,000.

All you who are up in arms about it, you are wrong.

All these people suffering is because of the greed that led to the situation of horribly inflated housing in 2006. The market must continue to adjust. And I’m praying for all those who suffering from this, but I’m also praying for the average cost of housing to continue down until the homeless and the poor can finally afford to live.

DawgDad

April 25th, 2012
6:36 pm

“That suggests pretty strongly that there is something unique to Atlanta playing out here. Part of that explanation has to be our failure to address issues of traffic, water, infrastructure, etc. Part of it also has to be the fact that the mode of development taken by metro Atlanta for the last quarter century is now out of fashion in the modern real-estate market.”

Right, wrong, wrong. Jay, HOW can you write this stuff? I moved down here in the boom, traffic was worse, water was soon restricted, and infrastructure (like Atlanta sewers) was a joke. People were flooding into the area.

Try writing about what is REALLY going on. Since I’ve been here Atlanta has lost numerous businesses including major corporate HQs and Regional HQs to closures, consolidations, mismanagement, etc. Lucent, Wachovia, GM plant, numerous others. I saw this happen over decades in St. Louis, the same pattern is playing out here. The massive local housing bubble on top of the national housing bubble had a compounding bursting effect.

Somebody told me recently Alpharetta is one of the largest concentrations of corporate data centers in the world. Unfortunately, those don’t employ a lot of people. The people they do employ are likely happy to be here, riding out the wave like I am. Atlanta is still a great place to live, as long as you don’t have kids in APS and you aren’t under water on your home loan. There are some real bargains out there for home buyers.

DawgDad

April 25th, 2012
6:40 pm

“I’m also praying for the average cost of housing to continue down until the homeless and the poor can finally afford to live.”

You’re PRAYING for housing to essentially become worthless? Only a socialist could have such a self-destructive mindset. Why not focus on RAISING UP the homeless and poor to afford the available housing???

Kevin Kennedy

April 26th, 2012
9:19 am

Hi, Jay. Could you please email me or give a link to the original article, “Metro-Atlanta Housing Prices Plummet? Thanks.

independent thinker

April 26th, 2012
4:53 pm

You can thank the realtors and mega builders as well as corrupt county officials for the overbuilding that occurred in Atlanta over the last twenty years. When you got way too much supply and not enough demand due to unemployment , migration of people out of Atlanta and foreclosures, prices drop drmatically. Add to that the 99% loans that he realtors , mortgage brokers and lenders gave away like candy and you got a recipe for a real estate disaster. In many neighborhoods the only comparables are foreclosure bargains, REO fire sales and short sales. Those neighborhoods then become suburban slums and values plummet even more. Getting quality owners back in the devastated neighborhoods is key.