British deploy GOP’s economic plan, return to recession
When he became prime minister of Great Britain two years ago, Conservative Party leader David Cameron began to implement an economic strategy much different than that pursued here in the United States under President Obama.
Cameron and his chancellor of the exchequer, George Osborne, decided that Plan A was to cut cut cut. They would cut their way to economic growth by slashing government spending by more than 20 percent across the board. Other aspects of their plan may sound familiar as well. Just last month, they announced that they would be cutting the top tax rate for Britain’s richest households while raising taxes on those who collect pensions, a proposal dubbed “the granny tax” because of its impact on the elderly.
A reader of the London Telegraph posts his reaction to news that Britain's economy has fallen back into a recession.
When “Plan A” was first announced, American conservatives saw it as a model for their own economic theories. As Fox News noted back in 2010:
“The Obama administration is showing no appetite whatsoever to do what the British are doing,” said Nile Gardiner, director of the Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom at the conservative Heritage Foundation. But, he said, the U.S. has to “at the very least do what the British are doing” to avoid a fiscal calamity.
Gardiner said congressional Republicans will be paying close attention as they craft their agenda should they end up with a majority in either chamber come Nov. 3. “I do think what Cameron is doing is going to be seen as inspirational by many conservatives on Capitol Hill,” Gardiner said.”
Yesterday, however, the Cameron government was forced to announce that the British economy has fallen back into a recession after reporting the second consecutive quarter of negative growth, the first double-dip recession in Britain since the mid-’70s.
Unemployment in Britain is rising. And while America’s gross domestic product has rebounded and by 2011 had topped pre-recession levels, GDP in Britain today remains 4 percent below what it was in 2008.
Most important, perhaps, the primary goal of Cameron’s austerity program was to reduce Britain’s deficit up front, early in the economic recovery, under the theory that by doing so they would drive growth. Instead, the deficit has continued to grow larger despite the spending cuts because it is hard to get more revenue out of an economy that is shrinking.
Economics is a difficult field in part because it is impossible to run controlled experiments to test the efficacy of various theories. However, in Britain and the United States we have two economies and two governments that took two very different courses during the same time frame.
And as we now know, the outcomes have been very different as well.
One economy is recovering, if slowly, with people returning to work and the budget deficit falling, if again too slowly. The other economy has sunk back into recession, with more people out of work and the deficit increasing as a result.
Geoff Colvin, writing in Forbes back in November 2010, eagerly embraced the experiment, arguing that it would confirm the wisdom of Britain’s approach. As he boldly put it:
“When we have a winner, the losing side will rationalize the results, saying they don’t prove much, because the two situations were different going in, and that with a little bit of tweaking, their strategy would have prevailed. We should resolve to cut through the inevitable spin and declare a winner. Whatever the results, I’ll embrace them. But I think I know how this will turn out, and it won’t be good news for America.”
His prediction has turned out to be wrong, of course. Given that evidence, I find it hard to believe that the American people will now choose to abandon a policy that has worked in favor of a strategy that our British friends have done us the favor of proving a failure.
– Jay Bookman
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308 comments Add your comment
Gordon
April 25th, 2012
1:18 pm
Jay@12:06,
“Or do you nurse him back to strength and give him time to heal those wounds before you inject him with the chemo and radiation?”
Except that never really happens does it? I can’t imagine Republicans not saying “Times are good, so let’s let the taxpayers keep more of what they earn”, or Democrats saying “Times are good, so let’s make those entitlement cuts that will keep us from bankrupting ourselves and destorying our chidren’s future”.
In America, it’s NEVER time to do the hard work of getting spending in line with reality. We should be cutting the deficit in good times and in bad, and stop pretending there is a way out of this that won’t be painful. There isn’t.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 25th, 2012
1:19 pm
I just re-read Jay’s piece above and didn’t see him plunk down any numbers pulled directly from off the top of his head.
Am I missing something?
Bruno
April 25th, 2012
1:19 pm
That’s where you’re wrong IMO. This was not a business cycle recession agreed????? It was the result of a financial and housing market crash. So how could the business cycle correct it?
DF–All business cycles are predicated on supply and demand. In the case of the housing market, I’m sure you recognize that we have a vast oversupply right now, as in millions of vacant residential and commercial properties. As for the financial crash, though it was extreme, it can still be characterized as a “cycle” of sorts.
It’s value is related to our ability to pay our debts but that is much different than the “print more money” notion of a currency that is backed in some government owned assets.
Then where did the stimulus money come from?? Certainly not from any surplus.
270 more days
April 25th, 2012
1:20 pm
Common sense tells us that you can’t or shouldn’t spend more than you have, but then again, I never said the Democrats had much common sense.
How about one of you left wingers tell us what is wrong with “no spending without equal cuts.”
That is not austerity, that is common sense.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
April 25th, 2012
1:20 pm
Jay, your graph is part of the Obama propaganda machine (snark)
rightwing troll
April 25th, 2012
1:21 pm
” and everyone on the right tripped all over themselves to criticize his use of language.”
But none would criticize the intent or the message…
Did you come up with any facts to support any of your prognostications yet?
willie lynch
April 25th, 2012
1:22 pm
Mention of the recovery of the U.S. economy seems to always be followed by the caveat “albeit too slowly.” Who can determine what the pace of recovery for a collapse of the magnitude we experienced should be? Of course there are speculators, but in reality the recovery from the Great Depression was not saddled with the burden of a competing and intertwined world economy and it took a while.
We are on the right course, and we didn’t even have a great war effort to help bail us out. So the pace is what it is and it’s obviously better than the alternative.
Jm
April 25th, 2012
1:22 pm
A
Recessions are a natural fact of life, get over it. Growth doesn’t happen in perpetuity
B
America’s GDP is a deficit fueled illusion
rightwing troll
April 25th, 2012
1:22 pm
“How about one of you left wingers tell us what is wrong with “no spending without equal cuts.”
As soon as one of you right wingnuts explain “deficits don’t matter”…
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 25th, 2012
1:22 pm
“no spending without equal cuts.
I got no problem with that as long as I get to choose where the cuts will occur, ok? Which part of defense do we start with? Hmmm……….
Mick
April 25th, 2012
1:23 pm
bruno
You are always issuing challenges to the “libs” here, so, here’s one for you; what is it exactly that mitt romney can do better? Can he extinguish the real estate debacle that still haunts? Can he bring back manufacturing and more jobs? Does he need to show that he is a tough guy and get us involved in another senseless war? What will mitt do? Please let me know because if you just lsiten to him, everything is obama’s fault…
rightwing troll
April 25th, 2012
1:23 pm
AND explain how Mittens is going to cut taxes, cut spending, and increase the pentagons budget…
Bruno
April 25th, 2012
1:24 pm
I just re-read Jay’s piece above and didn’t see him plunk down any numbers pulled directly from off the top of his head.
Finn–Not sure where your blind spot is coming from, but there is no reliable way to measure the effect of ANY economic policy due to the lack of a “control group” by which to make a comparison. Jay himself says so. As such, all of the numbers in the world are meaningless. Why are you having such a hard time grasping this simple concept??
In the end, there are a myriad of factors which affect an economy, government policy only being one of those. As such, there are no reliable economic models out there to accurately predict the future. Our recent crash should be proof enough of that reality for you. USinUK and Matti, however, will back me up in saying that I personally saw the crash coming and urged all of the old W2W bloggers to sell, sell, sell in early 2008. I then turned around and urged everyone to buy, buy, buy in March 2009. In other words, a few of us saw it coming.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 25th, 2012
1:25 pm
what is it exactly that mitt romney can do better?
He can do “white male” better and that is all that matters to some.
rightwing troll
April 25th, 2012
1:25 pm
” Can he bring back manufacturing and more jobs?”
Why that would be the antithesis of his life’s work.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 25th, 2012
1:26 pm
what is it exactly that mitt romney can do better?
Mitt would do better at putting right-leaning judges on the Supreme Court. I can offer that one up.
getalife
April 25th, 2012
1:26 pm
They should have listened to President Clinton like our President did:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8625156/Bill-Clinton-warns-against-UKs-austerity-measures.html
BTW, Hillary is at 65 % approval .
Hillary 16!
Oscar
April 25th, 2012
1:27 pm
Well, let’s see. If we try austerity and cutting taxes on the rich we will have a resession. On the other hand, if we continue spending at an high rate we will have a resession.
Looks to me like we should try a middle ground approach. That would be the best approach.
Let’s have an election next November and elect canditates who favor the middle ground approach.
bob
April 25th, 2012
1:28 pm
It is not Cameron’s fault, he just did not know how bad the situtaion was when he took over and his actions actully saved his country form the biggest recession ever !
bob
April 25th, 2012
1:29 pm
finn, “mute” point
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 25th, 2012
1:29 pm
Could someone please turn out the light on the Newt campaign now? Like a dying bear that Ted Nugent only nicked – it won’t go down gracefully.
Oscar
April 25th, 2012
1:29 pm
Mitt would do better at putting right-leaning judges on the Supreme Court. I can offer that one up.
__________
Mitt would led the mad rush back to the good old 1890s.
Adam
April 25th, 2012
1:29 pm
Bruno: Personally, I’d rather trade a bit of short term pain in order to alleviate the longer term suffering.
Personally, I’d rather not have short term suffering just because someone like you decided people need to suffer more than they already were going to, just to make a point. And, as it happens, the UK did exactly what you proposed and there is no long term benefit in sight.
The only problem with your health care analogy, Jay, is that our Congress doesn’t appear to have the political will to render ANY beneficial treatment at all. Just a bunch of band-aids and pain killers so far from my perspective.
Don’t like the stimulus? Pretend it never happened. Don’t like the American Jobs Act? Pretend it never existed. Don’t like the House Democrat Budget proposal? Don’t even become aware of it, just keep saying the nonsense about Democrats not proposing a budget.
All of those things things either did or would do wonders for the economy. You may disagree with that statement, but do you disagree that those things were proposed and that Republicans blocked all but the stimulus? I understand you may THINK the stimulus was a band aid, but if that is your position, you would be supporting a much larger stimulus, correct?
They BOTH suck
April 25th, 2012
1:29 pm
Did the cracks start as early as 06 and really started hitting in 07?
It was in the toilet by 08
270 more days
April 25th, 2012
1:29 pm
Brosephus™ – Let that ‘tussin get on down to the bone…
April 25th, 2012
12:48 pm
Well Bruno, compared to their GDP, the chinese had a stimulus that was 3 times as large as ours and they now have 8% growth.
Sounds like the Chinese did enough stimulating to produce a happy ending. The US…. not so much.
It is not so much the amount, but the use of it. The Chinese used almost all of their stimulus for infrastructure, not so much here with O’Bama’s giveaway
Jm
April 25th, 2012
1:30 pm
Uk deficit is about 6% of GDP
Us deficit is almost twice that
Us future is bad
F. Sinkwich
April 25th, 2012
1:30 pm
You’re gonna have to step it up with the charts, Jay:
“The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows Mitt Romney earning 49% of the vote, while President Obama attracts support from 44%. “
Adam
April 25th, 2012
1:31 pm
Swami Dave: Quite frankly, declaring the conclusion determined NOW is much like a football team declaring a win after scoring a 1st half touchdown of a close game.
So I can expect to hear nothing from your side that Obama’s policies, over the same exact time period, have failed – right? Since we haven’t had enough time for evaluation, as you yourself admitted?
stands for decibels
April 25th, 2012
1:31 pm
Mitt will ensure that more OB-GYNs are able to practice their love with women all across this country.
Jm
April 25th, 2012
1:32 pm
“his prediction has turned out to be wrong”
Premature judgement by jay
Quite pathetic
When the US has a deficit of 6% of GDP then we can make a judgement
270 more days
April 25th, 2012
1:33 pm
rightwing troll
April 25th, 2012
1:22 pm
“How about one of you left wingers tell us what is wrong with “no spending without equal cuts.”
As soon as one of you right wingnuts explain “deficits don’t matter”…
Dear RT,
I never said deficits don’t matter, now will you tell me what is wrong with “no spending without equal cuts.”?
Thanks in advance
Adam
April 25th, 2012
1:33 pm
Mr Right: How are Obama’s policies like Greece’s???
Ever hear of entitlements? Spend money like payday will never come!
Nope. That doesn’t even merit a nice try. The scale and scope of Greece’s entitlements never were the same as ours, and Obama did nothing, ZERO, to change them from the way they have been since the last tweak of Medicare Part D, as far as policies that are currently in effect go.
stands for decibels
April 25th, 2012
1:34 pm
Mitt will spearhead a Corporate/Fetus Personhood Constitutional Amendment. He’ll be efficient that way.
They BOTH suck
April 25th, 2012
1:35 pm
The Office for National Statistics said on Tuesday that the government’s preferred debt measure, public sector net borrowing excluding financial sector interventions, fell to 8.3 percent of GDP in 2011/12 from 9.3 percent in 2010/11 – in line with forecasts from the independent Office for Budget Responsibility.
http://news.yahoo.com/government-public-borrowing-hits-2011-12-target-083310940–business.html
Must have went down since this article came out……………. yesterday
Adam
April 25th, 2012
1:35 pm
Bruno: However, we’ve gotten ourselves so far in debt now that the only realistic solution is massive inflation. Is this an acceptable solution to you??
And yet, no such inflation has occurred in the US. Want to take a guess as to where it HAS happened? That’s right – the UK, where the austerity measures have been implemented.
Bruno
April 25th, 2012
1:35 pm
o jump-start a society’s economy, whereby demand in increased by consumers, the government has to spend money to support the economy, but doing the long term, big project, such as roads, bridges, schools, public health, ect. When government cuts back – ie their austerity plan, then the society as a whole is harmed and we are seeing that in Britian. Austerity in a time of economic recession is just a plan to hurt more people and make the economy less robust.
Rockerbabe–Though Finn was impressed with your words, all you did is provide a Wiki style definition of Keynesian economics. And while you may find a host of economists who still support that model, there are likely an equal number who reject it.
Well, Bruno, give us some valid links to studies that back up what you are pulling out the caboose…
I will as soon as you or Jay can do the same. Last post of the day to you. Banging my head against the wall repeatedly is more emotionally satisfying.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 25th, 2012
1:36 pm
Mitt will sell off the under-performing states. You heard it here first.
Adam
April 25th, 2012
1:36 pm
Bruno: However, some of us, like Newt and myself, are “Big Idea” people
Wow. Huge ego alert.
Look before I leap...
April 25th, 2012
1:39 pm
“It is not so much the amount, but the use of it. The Chinese used almost all of their stimulus for infrastructure, not so much here with O’Bama’s giveaway”
I think we can safely blame much of that on the how the states chose to spend the largess from Uncle Sam
stands for decibels
April 25th, 2012
1:39 pm
Does he need to show that he is a tough guy and get us involved in another senseless war?
Write this down: “K-O-L-O-B, Kolob, bitches!”
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 25th, 2012
1:40 pm
You do realize that half the time Bruno is correct 100% of the time.
Adam
April 25th, 2012
1:40 pm
Mick: Please let me know because if you just lsiten to him, everything is obama’s fault…
I am not sure how I missed that…. Yes, Mitt and conservatives complain that Obama blames Bush, but then they blame Obama for everything that happened since BEFORE the man even took office.
Now THAT is hypocritical.
They BOTH suck
April 25th, 2012
1:40 pm
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/18/g20-usa-geithner-deficit-idUSW1E8EK00B20120418
US deficit to GDP
For a big balln finance man………. someone’s numbers seem to be on the dubious side………… the vast majority of the time
wonder why, but no big deal
glad I could assist
John Birch
April 25th, 2012
1:41 pm
Who cares about the Brits. If Jay’s logic is so sound why don’t we adopt the Chinese model and get 8% GNP growth?
mm
April 25th, 2012
1:41 pm
“without even counting Obamacare!”
Oh, so now Obamacare is an entitlement? Coz you know, it’s forcing everyone to buy insurance. Since when is paying for something an entitlement. The same for Social Security and Medicare. We pay for them.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 25th, 2012
1:42 pm
Ooohhh, our daily Ragamuffing tracking poll results.
Cool beans!
Mick
April 25th, 2012
1:42 pm
adam
It’s all smoke and mirrors, at the very least obama is a pragmatist, someone I can trust with his finger on the nuclear button…
Adam
April 25th, 2012
1:42 pm
Finn: Bruno hasn’t been right much, he’s only persistent. I found one thing that he said to be correct and I think that because most of us agreed with him he stopped talking about it.
Bruno
April 25th, 2012
1:43 pm
You are always issuing challenges to the “libs” here, so, here’s one for you; what is it exactly that mitt romney can do better? Can he extinguish the real estate debacle that still haunts? Can he bring back manufacturing and more jobs? Does he need to show that he is a tough guy and get us involved in another senseless war? What will mitt do? Please let me know because if you just lsiten to him, everything is obama’s fault…
Mick–Have you seen me singing Romney’s praises here?? Like you and everyone else here, I’m forced to choose the lesser of the two evils this go round. I’m going with Romney because I believe his business experience will be an asset, whereas Obama’s Villain/Victim welfare mentality is a definite minus.
Adam
April 25th, 2012
1:44 pm
If Jay’s logic is so sound why don’t we adopt the Chinese model and get 8% GNP growth?
We have had this proposed by Democrats in Congress. It was shot down by Republicans.
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNEXT!
They BOTH suck
April 25th, 2012
1:44 pm
http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/revenue_chart_1950_2011USp_13s1li011mcn_G0f_Federal_Deficit_As_Pct_GDP
BADA BING
April 25th, 2012
1:45 pm
Comparing their plan to ours is like comparing our dental plans.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 25th, 2012
1:45 pm
Maybe Bruno and Newt should hole up somewhere and dream up another Moon colony. We need more of these BIG ideas.
Adam
April 25th, 2012
1:46 pm
Bruno: Obama’s Villain/Victim welfare mentality
Corporations should be subsidized, taxes on the rich and corporations should go down, everything is Obama’s fault, Obama being painted as a villain….
Those are Romney positions. Your minus for Obama is the same as a minus for Romney.
Adam
April 25th, 2012
1:46 pm
They BOTH suck: Gee, I wonder what was happening in the late 90s there….
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 25th, 2012
1:47 pm
Oh, now I know where Newt got that $2.50 a gallon gas number. Those big idea guys know how to pull numbers out of all kinds of places.
Mick
April 25th, 2012
1:48 pm
bruno
Nice punt! Mitt comes off as someone who is entitled to be president because what? He’s a successful businessman? No, he really hasn’t even come close to closing the deal…
Oscar
April 25th, 2012
1:48 pm
Mick
April 25th, 2012
1:42 pm
_________
I agree. Between the two, Obama is the most level headed and the one most likely to make the most reasonable decision.
Adam
April 25th, 2012
1:49 pm
“Don’t tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I’ll tell you what you value.” – who said it?
Don't Forget
April 25th, 2012
1:50 pm
Rockerbabe – great post above, the long one.
Bruno -
DF–All business cycles are predicated on supply and demand. In the case of the housing market, I’m sure you recognize that we have a vast oversupply right now, as in millions of vacant residential and commercial properties. As for the financial crash, though it was extreme, it can still be characterized as a “cycle” of sorts.
Oh c’mon Bruno. You know that’s total BS. Comparing the housing bubble to a normal supply/demand cycle is like comparing a rain shower to a hurricane. The market should tell you that by the way that housing prices have plummeted. And the financial crash? You realize the last one was what kicked off the Great Depression right? Normal business cycle, pffft. Sheer nonsense.
Butch Cassidy
April 25th, 2012
1:50 pm
I still don’t understand the Romney position of ” I have business experience” when clearly the Government DOES NOT operate on business principles. I liken that to a MARTA bus driver applying for a pilots position at Delta. ” Hey, I have transportation experience”.
They BOTH suck
April 25th, 2012
1:51 pm
Adam
I just put up those links to see what one of the right leaning bloggers who posted pure BS…………. was it on purpose? I have no idea
I was just glad I could could him on the right path. I believe he is in the finance / investment industry if I am not mistaken..
Wouldn’t want him given any bad advice to a prospective or current client……..
John Birch
April 25th, 2012
1:52 pm
Adam – You mean the Dems introduced legislation that would have taken us from free markets to a planned economy with five year plans and all? I must have missed that, can you cite the legislation?
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 25th, 2012
1:52 pm
Romney should be shaking that Etch a Sketch today, no?
Bruno
April 25th, 2012
1:53 pm
Personally, I’d rather not have short term suffering just because someone like you decided people need to suffer more than they already were going to, just to make a point. And, as it happens, the UK did exactly what you proposed and there is no long term benefit in sight.
Adam–Grow up, will you?? No one likes bad times, whether short term or long term. No one. Not to make a point or for any other reason. However, some of us are a little more mature and realize that sometimes short-term suffering is required for a longer-term good, such as a sustainable debt level. The reason you don’t see any long-term benefit in the UK model is that we’re still living in the short term.
All of those things things either did or would do wonders for the economy.
Like Finn, you somehow don’t grasp the idea that economic policies are impossible to verify scientifically due to the lack of a “control group”. If you can’t understand that simple concept, I’ll gladly put you on “Ignore” also. No point in arguing with idiots.
They BOTH suck
April 25th, 2012
1:56 pm
meant to say…..
“I just put up those links to see what one of the right leaning bloggers who posted pure BS…………would counter with”
As of this moment………… nothing
deegee
April 25th, 2012
2:00 pm
The theory behind the economic model is that you save during times of prosperity and spend during times of austerity. Our corrupt leadership have it azz backwards, just like my 86 year old mother that invests in the market when it’s up and sells when it’s down. It’s not rocket science.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 25th, 2012
2:01 pm
If you can’t understand that simple concept, I’ll gladly put you on “Ignore” also. No point in arguing with idiots.
Keep this post in mind Bruno the next time you start whinging about name-calling here.
Bruno
April 25th, 2012
2:02 pm
Wow. Huge ego alert.
Adam–You might want to sharpen your recognition of obvious humor.
Corporations should be subsidized, taxes on the rich and corporations should go down, everything is Obama’s fault, Obama being painted as a villain….
I don’t have a problem with Romney trying to cast Obama in a villain light. That’s what elections are all about. I don’t think that anyone ever won by proclaiming how great their opponent is. In Obama’s case, however, he has repeatedly demonized otherwise good, hard-working Americans for short-term political gain. In virtually every speech he insults 1/2 of Americans (Republicans). And at the same time he keeps pushing the Victim role onto everyone else. There’s absolutely nothing productive–or Patriotic–about that approach in the least. However, as you’ve demonstrated repeatedly on this blog, you’re all about Victimhood. One day I hope you wake up to realize what a losing strategy that is.
mike 'hussein' smith
April 25th, 2012
2:02 pm
Johnny Reb, you’re wrongo on two counts: the one Jay pointed out and your assertion that, somehow, the Obama admin has changed the way of figuring unemployment. For decades — at least as far back as the Reagan recession — the active unemployment rate did not include those people no longer actively seeking work.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 25th, 2012
2:03 pm
jay
why didnt you distinguish 2 very large differences with the UK and US economies………. the UK has to fund government run healthcare and it is dealing with the DIRECT regional affects of the EUROPEAN DEBT CRISIS………….
even the juggernaut GERMANY is having trouble
ZEW Says German Economic Growth to Be 0.5% in 2012
Jan. 17 (Bloomberg) — Wolgang Franz, president of the ZEW Center for European Economic Research and chairman of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s council of economic advisers, talks about German investor confidence. He speaks from Mannheim, Germany, with Maryam Nemazee on Bloomberg Television’s “The Pulse.” (Source: Bloomberg)
Rockerbabe
April 25th, 2012
2:03 pm
Mr. Right: entitlements have increased in the country because the economy is faltered for such a long period of time, starting way back in Duyba’s administration.
- Food stamps are up because citizens who once held jobs in the private sector, are now on long term unemployment and that small little check does little to hold body and soul together, when all of the savings are gone. I highly expect most will gladly give up food stamps, once they can find work and feed their kids and themselves off of their earned income.
- More 62+ year old citizens who cannot find work and who once worked full-time before Duyba’s and Wall street’s debaucle, are now on early retirement as the unemployment compensation checks have run out. I highly expect, a good many will return to to work place when the economy recovers.
- More citizens and their kids are on Medicaid as they have lost private medical insurance when they lost a full-time job or that full-time job became part-time. COBRA can and does allow employers to charge former employees or part-time employees up to 110% of the cost of the premiums and that is often times more than the unemployement compensation checks for the month? So Medicaide is the last resort to get affordable, not bankruptcy-inducing medical care for the family.
- If you do not believe me on these explanations, I highly suggest you contact the Atlanta Food Bank, your local church food pantry or the Salvation Army and ask them about the severity of the need for assistance.
President Obama is not the cause of the recession, it started long before he came into office – that is just a fact. In fact, Duyba and his economic advisers stated the recession was over before he left office, but it doesn’t feel like it, does it? Sort of like, when Dubya announced “mission accomplished”. President Obama has done his best to manage this crisis with nothing but obstruction from our fabulously paid and over rewarded Congress.
John Birch
April 25th, 2012
2:04 pm
deegee – Exactly! Keynes advocated deficit spending to get out of recessions not as a permanent way of life. Now that we have growth we should be paying down the debt not adding $1T+ to it every year.
Adam
April 25th, 2012
2:06 pm
Bruno: However, some of us are a little more mature and realize that sometimes short-term suffering is required for a longer-term good, such as a sustainable debt level.
And some of us who don’t have to continually insist how mature, intelligent, or “big idea” we are realize that is complete and utter nonsense. The UK may have followed a plan of “short term pain no, long term sustainability later” but are discovering, the hard way, that the particular economic model that they and you support is actually WRONG, and doesn’t work the way they and you think it does.
Bruno
April 25th, 2012
2:07 pm
Comparing the housing bubble to a normal supply/demand cycle is like comparing a rain shower to a hurricane.
DF–I agree with you that the “amplitude” of our current business cycle is in the extreme range compared to previous cycles. However, that doesn’t invalidate the cyclical nature of the beast. When housing prices fall far enough, then they will be affordable once again.
Keep this post in mind Bruno the next time you start whinging about name-calling here.
Kam–I don’t have a big problem with insulting an individual poster who is showing willful defiance. What I don’t care for is insulting/demonizing half of our population with no reasoning behind it.
Adam
April 25th, 2012
2:11 pm
Like Finn, you somehow don’t grasp the idea that economic policies are impossible to verify scientifically due to the lack of a “control group”.
I can make a prediction about how things would have affected the economy in the same way you can, and have, done in the past. We can agree to disagree for the most part, but I do think results in specific situations speak for themselves. Obama’s plan may not have “worked” in your view, but it wasn’t the disaster that the other plan – the austerity plan – caused in the UK. They did not take some of the approaches that would have (and did in our country) prevented a second recession.
Put me on ignore if you like. I don’t particularly care. You seem to think you have “big ideas” that are much too big for anyone here to understand anyway, so there’s no point in my reading your long diatribes that are, save one recent exception, 100% wrong, if you’re just going to post them and ignore someone who challenges you.
Adam
April 25th, 2012
2:12 pm
Bruno: Adam–You might want to sharpen your recognition of obvious humor.
Gaslighting does not become you sir.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 25th, 2012
2:13 pm
ADAM
you are clearly not taking into consideration the predicament that UK, FRANCE and GERMANY face with the PIIGS and the EUROPEAN DEBT CRISIS…………. they can’t just go around spending money from DEBT willy nilly like a DEMOCRAT……… they are facing MASSIVE bailouts of their SISTER nations in the EURO ZONE………..
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 25th, 2012
2:15 pm
UNCLE SAMANTHA
Decaf.
Just sayin’.
Adam
April 25th, 2012
2:15 pm
Bruno: I don’t have a problem with Romney trying to cast Obama in a villain light.
Clearly not.
In virtually every speech he insults 1/2 of Americans (Republicans).
If you call telling everyone what their policies are an insult. Please DO point out where the insults are.
And at the same time he keeps pushing the Victim role onto everyone else. There’s absolutely nothing productive–or Patriotic–about that approach in the least. However, as you’ve demonstrated repeatedly on this blog, you’re all about Victimhood.
You are free to point out whatever you think is victimhood on my part any time you like. But, since you have indicated victimhood is not patriotic, and not productive, what then is your opinion of Fox News personalities and regular programming?
Adam
April 25th, 2012
2:18 pm
they can’t just go around spending money from DEBT willy nilly like a DEMOCRAT
Why don’t you tell me where the DEMOCRATS have spent all the money. Please feel free to recognize the difference between a policy started under Obama, and policies before then.
Let me help:
http://tarheelred.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/time-poilcy-change.gif
http://www.cps-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/bush-vs-obama-spending.jpg
Jay
April 25th, 2012
2:20 pm
sheets
John Birch
April 25th, 2012
2:22 pm
Big problem is we don’t have a comprehensive economic plan like the Chinese because we have two parties vying for power and catering to special interests, whether the interests are the 1%, the poor, the unions, etc. The Chinese have had incredible growth because they do have a central plan, one that seems to be doing better for all Chinese. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204630904577056490023451980.html
They BOTH suck
April 25th, 2012
2:23 pm
Bruno and Jam
Either of you going to stop by the Yacht Club before going to see the show?
270 more days
April 25th, 2012
2:23 pm
Right Wing Trool
Cat got your tounge?
Adam
April 25th, 2012
2:25 pm
John: They didn’t propose a planned economy, but did propose a bigger stimulus. I thought we were discussing how the Chinese went 3 times as big as we did in their own stimulus by percentage.
deegee
April 25th, 2012
2:27 pm
John Birch, can you imagine any argument that doesn’t end in “pay down the debt”? While we are not in a recession, we aren’t growing fast enough to claim a full recovery. The rate of job growth is still not high enough to consider ourselves out of the woods. Housing, the linchpin of our economy is still depressed.
I agree that there are plenty of wasted tax dollars that could be saved. My approach is to force our corrupt elected officials to spend the majority of their time in their districts while doing the citizens’ work. They could go to Washington once a quarter and spend a week. Isn’t that what our founding fathers did? If global corporations can conduct business via teleconference then why can’t our corrupt elected officials do so? Our corrupt elected officials are too close to K Street in the first place. In the second place, they have too much idle time on their hands, case in point, Weinergate. Anthony Weiner demonstrated that our corrupt elected officials are adept in the use of electronic media. Let’s make them use it instead of paying them room and board so that they can hang out in DC and grab azz.
Bruno
April 25th, 2012
2:28 pm
You seem to think you have “big ideas” that are much too big for anyone here to understand anyway, so there’s no point in my reading your long diatribes that are, save one recent exception, 100% wrong
Adam–Believe as you wish. I normally expect my posts to be understood by at least 90% of the folks here, and am happy to re-explain to the other 10%, as long as they don’t turn it into an ass-showing contest.
Gaslighting does not become you sir.
In case you missed it, Adam, Jay has regularly mocked Newt for his “Big Ideas”. If you don’t understand that I am making a play on that theme, then I can’t help you.
Gotta run. I hope Doom shows up for the mop-up action.
Don't Forget
April 25th, 2012
2:28 pm
Sorry Bruno, but a finincail crisis is not a part of the business cycle. An economy propped up by fraudulent derivatives in not a part of the business cycle. The business cycle is a supply/demand cycle just as you said, it is not based on phony securities.
As for Britain’s short term pain, when you consider that the deficit went up and the economy is once again contracting I really fail to see what the long term benefit is.
Adam
April 25th, 2012
2:32 pm
Fair enough, Bruno. I will accept that you meant it as a joke.
My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)
April 25th, 2012
2:39 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 25th, 2012
12:36 pm
Cosby, do you not even remember the Great Recession of 2008 and how we got there…
Ssshhhhh. Remember, we cannot mention He Who Shouldn’t Be Named.
______________________________________________________________________________
This reminds me of the Dem/left claim that they don’t call the rich “evil”. “Show me one example of a Dem/lib calling them the “evil rich”, is usually what gets repeated. They are correct.
BUT
They make the claim that Repub/cons don’t want you the EVER mention Bush’s name. i.e. “He Who Shouldn’t Be Named”.
I say “Show me one example of a Repub/con saying that they “don’t want you the EVER mention Bush’s name”, or to similar effect.
Not your opinion, not an assumption, not “reading between the lines” conjecture.
I’ll wait.
They BOTH suck
April 25th, 2012
2:46 pm
TBG
Thulsa has never said ” do not mention Bush’s name”; however if he is on this blog and the name Bush gets mentioned………………. he goes a little overboard, to say the least
So essentially what is he saying…….
He is the 1st to post Reagan era numbers, but Bush is off limits to mention………….
I know he is not here to defend himself, however he came to mind real quick
They BOTH suck
April 25th, 2012
2:49 pm
TBG
As for me…… While I do not like the overall GOP platform……. I do not knock rich people for the money they have made or inherited…. I might knock political ideology, but that encompasses more than just the “evil rich”
But I do see your overall point………. the BS is played out here each day withe rhetoric, talking points, broad brushes / paint sprayers on all sides
Hope you are having a good week
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 25th, 2012
3:00 pm
I say “Show me one example of a Repub/con saying that they “don’t want you the EVER mention Bush’s name”, or to similar effect.
Really?
You don’t recall even one instance of a “Repub/con” reminding everyone here that Bush is no longer in office and therefore irrelevant to this financial melt-down?
Seriously?
Adam
April 25th, 2012
3:13 pm
“Show me one example of a Repub/con saying that they “don’t want you the EVER mention Bush’s name”
Well, they didn’t say exactly that. Some of them HAVE said in the past that “Bush is no longer President”, usually in response to any criticism of Bush’s policies. He also is abnormally absent from the Republican talking points and endorsements area, which is notably odd. Leading many to think he is being marginalized by his own party, in a “He Who Must Not Be Named” sort of way.
Hope that helps.
My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)
April 25th, 2012
3:22 pm
They BOTH suck
April 25th, 2012
2:49 pm
___________________________________________________________________
Fair enough.
Week is dragging along. Looking forward to the weekend so I can get out on my bike. Going on a fun ride for Juvenile Diabetes on Sat.
Not sure how I’m going to work that out since I’m a con and only care about my self.
My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)
April 25th, 2012
3:30 pm
So far, opinion, assumptions, and “reading between the lines” conjecture.
Using that logic, then the “con” are right when they say libs view the rich as “evil”.
I hear from “libs”:
Eat the rich.
They don’t do anything to help others.
They would sell their own mother to make a buck. (that would be pretty evil)
They would sleep with the devil to make a buck. (pretty evil as well)
They want the middle class to starve so they can have more money. (pretty evil)
You get my point. Just like ALL dems/libs DO NOT think the rich are “evil”, ALL repubs/cons do not feel Bush should NEVER be mentioned.
But, if you twist enough, you can make the point that they do.
Rockerbabe
April 25th, 2012
3:40 pm
Adam: I do not think that short or long-term suffering should include starving, going homeless and being sick without basic medical care. I do not think suffering should include taking money from public education and giving to private and religious schools is a good idea that will benefit society as a whole. I do not think it should include crapping on senior citizens and their meager incomes, let along as an excuse to gut the retirement system in this country.
The Americans doing the suffering are not the ones who caused this economic meltdown; that was the doing of the greedy Wall Street bankers, their lobbyist, real estate moguls, financiers and those in the 1% tax bracket and of course, they had a lot of help from Congress! If these folks can’t be made to suffer for their ruinous ways which drastically affected the entire nation, then those who are their victims in all of this crap, should not have to go without basic necessities.
Adam
April 25th, 2012
3:49 pm
Rockerbabe: Exactly. Well said.
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
April 25th, 2012
4:57 pm
Britain is a useful comparison only to the extent it provides information concerning our ultimate destination under (Heaven forbid) continuing Democrat policies. The only reason we are not there now is our Treasury can, for the time being, print as much money (electronically) as it desires.