What Chris Hitchens and Jonah Goldberg both got wrong
Christopher Hitchens
In his atheistic diatribe “God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything,” the late Christopher Hitchens revisited the various evils and excesses committed in the name of religion over the centuries. And they are many.
Yet what about the brutal excesses of secular, atheistic regimes, such as Stalin’s USSR, Hitler’s Third Reich, Mao’s China and Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge? Doesn’t their existence challenge the claim that it is somehow religion that is at fault, rather than something still deeper in the human psyche?
In response, Hitchens offered what I consider to be an intellectually lazy answer, an answer designed to try to win a debate rather than get at the truth:
The regimes of Stalin, Mao, Hitler and Pol Pot were also religious in nature, Hitchens argued, because they substituted the worship of an individual or ideology for the worship of a god. Therefore, all evil that those regimes did must be totted up on religion’s side of the ledger, leaving the secular world unstained.
With that contention — voila! — Hitchen’s problem was solved, or so he claimed.
In a 2007 tour to promote “God Is Not Great”, Hitchens traveled the country debating religious experts about its theme. Here in Atlanta, he crossed rhetorical swords with Tim Jackson, a professor of Christian ethics at Emory’s Candler School of Theology. And Jackson, to his credit, refused to condone Hitchen’s cheap debating tactic:
Timothy Jackson
“If we can embrace such doublespeak that North Korea is a religious institution, a religious regime, and understand Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot as fundamentally religious, then religion has become an ugly meaningless term,” Jackson pointed out.
“We’re all sinful and we can all contribute to horrific injustice, whether we’re believers or not,” the professor reminded the crowd. “….the worm at the heart of human nature is deeper than that.”
(An audio of the Hitchens/Jackson debate is available here.).
In that regard at least, Hitchens shared a lot with his one-time neighbor in New York, conservative writer Jonah Goldberg. In his 2008 book “Liberal Fascism,” Goldberg echoed Hitchens by alleging that all totalitarianism, including fascism, is by nature liberal in its origins.
Clearly, communist regimes in the USSR and China were brutal and tyrannical. But what of, say, Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, which are historically treated as examples of right-wing dictatorships? Do they not demonstrate that totalitarianism is a temptation to which both the right and left might succumb?
To Goldberg, the answer is no. He argues that Nazi Germany was actually a left-wing manifestation that drew its poison from the wells of liberalism and socialism. In fact, in his view of the world the phrase “right-wing dictatorship” is an impossible contradiction and a null set. Conservatives by definition could never be tempted to seek absolute power; thus, those who seek absolute power could never be conservative.
In a new posting at National Review, where he works as a columnist, Goldberg claims to have found further evidence of his thesis in a two-part series on Nazi Germany that was originally published in 1932 in The Atlantic and has now been republished on the Internet.
(The articles by Nicolas Fairweather are astonishing in their own right, demonstrating just how predictable the coming nightmare really was. Everything — the attempted genocide of the Jews, the invasion first of France and then of the Soviet Union — was all well-known and understood by those who cared to do so long before Hitler even gained power.)
Jonah Goldberg
However, when you read the articles cited, you realize once again how thin and downright silly Goldberg’s argument really is. For example, the 1932 Atlantic article lists “the principal articles of Hitler’s political faith,” which included:
“(Hitler’s) violent animosity to Marxian Socialism as in essence opposed to his ideal of a nationally minded people and a racial state. He condemns the Socialism of Marx as a poisonous teaching which by its humanitarianism, its internationalism, and its pacifism — all legacies of the unnatural and unwholesome democracy of the French Revolution — operates to undermine the clean ideal of Aryan (that is, German) overlordship.”
Hitler saw “Marxian Socialism” as a Jewish invention, “the principal tool by which they insinuate themselves into healthy, pure blooded, racial states.” He despised labor unions and expressed contempt for the common man. As the Atlantic piece reported:
“Class warfare, it appeared (to Hitler), was necessarily a destroyer of nationalism. In reacting against the internationalism and class-consciousness of the orthodox Socialists (’Marxists’ is the term Hitler always uses), he has made himself the outstanding opponent of all Communistic tendencies.”
Remember, this is all in an article cited as evidence in favor of Goldberg’s thesis.
In one sense, I am admittedly rehashing old ground — both the Goldberg book and the Hitchens book were published years ago. However, as the 1932 Atlantic pieces demonstrate, bad ideas and bad history can have profound consequences if left unchallenged.
It is dangerous for any group of people to wrap themselves in a belief that they are immune to the temptations of power, because once you make that mistake, those temptations become all the harder to resist. As George Orwell documented so well, for example, a similar arrogance on the left during the ’20s, ’30s and ’40s led many liberals to dismiss evidence of just how brutal the Soviet Union had become.
There will always be those who are eager to take as much power as possible; likewise, there will always be those who are willing to surrender that power to others. Political philosophy and religious faith make no one exempt to either temptation.
Because, as the good professor noted:
“The worm at the heart of human nature is deeper than that.”
– Jay Bookman
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903 comments Add your comment
Mick
April 23rd, 2012
12:28 pm
Used to read jonah goldberg’s column in the herald – he’s the very definition of a hack. Hitchens on the other hand, even though I mostly disagreed with, was a very talented wordsmith…
Jefferson
April 23rd, 2012
12:32 pm
goldberg is weak and out in left field with a catcher’s mitt on, wondering why the 3rd base coach wants him to bunt — clueless.
USinUK
April 23rd, 2012
12:34 pm
“However, when you read the articles cited, you realize once again how thin and downright silly Goldberg’s argument really is. ”
and this is news???
anyone who has read more than a handful of his “articles” (using the term loosely) has known that for years.
oh, unless he wants to talk about The Simpsons … then he’s extremely well-versed.
Fly-on-the-Wall
April 23rd, 2012
12:34 pm
Goldberg is just another person who is doing research with a bias – he’s setting out to prove his idea is true versus someone who does real research and lets the finding speak for themselves.
Both sides of our political process do this.
Fly-on-the-Wall
April 23rd, 2012
12:37 pm
USinUK – naw, sounds like he’d get the Simpsons wrong as well.
JF McNamara
April 23rd, 2012
12:39 pm
You are debating the particulars. Greed and cruelty are part of human nature. That’s not religions or political fault. Unless you address the root cause, you’re just skimming the surface.
There are three words that can always perplex a Christian, “Prove it objectively.”
stands for decibels
April 23rd, 2012
12:40 pm
To answer Jay’s headline question: Pants are for wearing, not for loading.
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
April 23rd, 2012
12:41 pm
I think there must be a “God” and you can’t have good without evil, (yin and yang, don’t you know). But this “God” is supposed to be worshiped by all mankind. Yet as we all know, man has decided that One True God doesn’t have it right, so man, in his arrogance, makes up religions to fit his way of thinking. It’s not if there is or is not a God that is the problem, it’s man messing with God’s word and His desire for his people. God created enlightenment, in all it’s brilliant glory. Man created religions and turned that light off.
Would we have had Hitler or Stalin without religion. Don’t know, but I doubt it. Unification under one God without religion getting in the way would take care of a lot of problems, wouldn’t it?
USinUK
April 23rd, 2012
12:44 pm
“There are three words that can always perplex a Christian, “Prove it objectively.””
which is why it’s called “faith” — belief in things unseen.
just don’t expect me to accept it as gospel … so to speak.
ByteMe - Political thug for sale
April 23rd, 2012
12:44 pm
It comes back to faith without thought and those who would take advantage of that for their own power gain.
If your faith is so strong you can’t question it regularly, then you are likely to become a pawn in someone else’s power play.
Brosephus™
April 23rd, 2012
12:44 pm
goldberg is weak and out in left field with a catcher’s mitt on, wondering why the 3rd base coach wants him to bunt — clueless.
Dammitt!!!! Thanks for making me spit up a mouthful of coffee….
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
12:45 pm
I find it comical jay is calling hitchens intellectually lazy
I’m not a hitchens fan, but the man was a giant next to jay in the intellectual category
He’s also dead. Which makes him an easier target for the super intellectually lazy like Bookman
M
April 23rd, 2012
12:50 pm
I have also heard that there are no true Scotsmen.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
12:55 pm
Meanwhile the NY Times has a piece abouthow Obama is making unprecedented grabs for executive power…
Peadawg
April 23rd, 2012
12:56 pm
Never heard of any of these guys but interesting read, Jay.
Aquagirl
April 23rd, 2012
12:57 pm
There are three words that can always perplex a Christian, “Prove it objectively.”
That’s when they either get out the bludgeon or the passive-aggressive “I’ll pray for you.”
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
12:58 pm
“There are three words that can always perplex a Christian, “Prove it objectively.””
Not always. If you ask ME that about an article of faith you’ll get no perplexity. Just an hones “I can’t” – BUT, if it’s something that CAN be proven objectively…I’ll ask why you can’t do it for yourself.
Mick
April 23rd, 2012
12:58 pm
jm
If you don’t have something good to say that is irrelevant to the topic, why embar ass yourself by saying it?
Mad Max
April 23rd, 2012
12:58 pm
Jay,
I sense a more centrist theme in your recent columns. Thanks, now if you can get your regular readership to be a bit more tolerant(both sides), this might be a place for reasonable discussion instead of talking points and oneupsmanship. I just finished reading the Grace Effect and the author engaged in several of these tours with Hitchins, including his farewell tour which provided some background for reading your column today. His book follows the journey his family took adopting a Ukranian girl and the corruption and disregard for the leasst of these they ran into in the former USSR. He used a quote from Washington to explain some of what he encountered and it went something like this, “No country can maintain it’s moral compass without the presense of religion”.
Whatever
April 23rd, 2012
12:59 pm
Normal,
How do you propose “Unification under one God without religion”? Who will define the truth of this god? Who will lay out his doctrine? Who will decide if he’s a he and not a she? You can’t have “unification” (all believing the same thing) without someone defining what it is you should believe.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
12:59 pm
While I agree with most of Jays argument, it happens to be an irrelevant argument
On the national level, democrats are the current significant threat to liberty. When conservatives are I’ll be back to bashing them
And the conservatives at the state level in GA are certainly deserving of the stick
M
April 23rd, 2012
1:00 pm
I really don’t think Hitchens’ argument is far off, considering the prominent portrait placement of Mao, Stalin, Kim, et. al. They insisted upon what could be considered worship. Dissent equals punishment or death.
GW
April 23rd, 2012
1:00 pm
You can be forgiven for the rehash since these are Interesting thoughts.
But it strikes me as an attempt to show in a mainstream newspaper that you are on both sides, rather than taking a true editorial position. That’s what’s wrong with most newspaper editorials and columns today in my view, which is why I insist on taking a strong stand rather than straddling the fence.
And in the end, it seems to me while Hitchens did not come up with the correct intellectual answer to the problem of totalitarianism not based on religion, he still had a strong point about religion being at the root of many wars.
We may not stop all war by educating people about science and showing how religion has it wrong, but it seems to me to be a better strategy for the long run for the human race than right-wing jingoism.
Grasshopper
April 23rd, 2012
1:03 pm
“It is dangerous for any group of people to wrap themselves in a belief that they are immune to the temptations of power, because once you make that mistake, those temptations become all the harder to resist.”
This is why many believe that power should be dispersed. Too much in the hands of one assembly, one president or one court is too much temptation. The founding fathers knew this to be true.
Generation$crewed
April 23rd, 2012
1:03 pm
Why is it when some on this blog discuss religion they seem to act as if Christianity is the only religion, or christians are the only ones with convictions of faith?
Do you all have a bias against or in favor of christianity?
Or
Are you unaware of the many different faiths of the world?
Or
Is there another reason behind this common occurance here?
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
1:05 pm
Doesn’t their existence challenge the claim that it is somehow religion that is at fault, rather than something still deeper in the human psyche?
Jay–I’m not necessarily taking Hitchens’ side in this argument, but I believe that is the point he is making by attempting to equate personality cult dictatorships like North Korea with blind adherence to religious leaders. Technically he isn’t correct because religion by definition focuses on a Creator, but I think the same human characteristics which lead us to put faith in an unseen Creator is the same human quality which leads people to put absolute faith in other humans.
Whatever
April 23rd, 2012
1:06 pm
If someone is truly a Christian then they believe that Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
If they believe that then even though they know there are other religions why would they consider them true?
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
1:06 pm
Generation$crewed – I would guess the reason is that most of the people here would consider themselves Christian, or were raised in a household that considered itself Christian. Nothing to do with intentional bias, just the fact that people tend to speak about what they know. Probably nothing to do with general ignorance as you suggested either. Once again, people tend to speak about what they know.
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
1:10 pm
Bruno – The argument could probably be furthered by asking those in North Korea who they consider their “father/creator.” I would be willing to bet that a majority would assert that it is the Kim family. The ones that wouldn’t are probably in the government and therefore better educated, or in a work camp.
JF McNamara
April 23rd, 2012
1:10 pm
The faith response is a joke. Why do need to have faith?
God is omniscient and omnipresent. He created the heavens and the Earth, but he can’t just tell us he exists with certainty? An all knowing, all powerful deity requires you believe in him but provides no evidence at all of his existence. The last recorded “evidence” was 2000 years ago, and is a dubious amalgamation of god like beliefs of the era. That makes no sense at all.
M
April 23rd, 2012
1:13 pm
Hey, c’mon…he appears on toast and tree stumps every so often.
Mick
April 23rd, 2012
1:14 pm
JF
Wow! You said a mouthful…I think the answer is all around you and that’s what makes yours or my journey so unique and special…people just need to put on their 4d glasses as a reminder every now and then…
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
1:14 pm
There will always be those who are eager to take as much power as possible; likewise, there will always be those who are willing to surrender that power to others. Political philosophy and religious faith make no one exempt to either temptation. Because, as the good professor noted: “The worm at the heart of human nature is deeper than that.”
Obviously.
Whatever
April 23rd, 2012
1:17 pm
Why do we say there is a “worm at the heart of human nature”? If there is no God then there is no absolute right/wrong, good/evil, or worm in the heart. There is nothing moral or immoral except what we want to pretend.
Those who believe in no god but want to believe in good/evil do not make sense. Without some authority to define good/evil there is no absolute on which to rest our cases.
RB from Gwinnett
April 23rd, 2012
1:17 pm
JF, what would you do if God came to you and proved he was real? Would you change anything about your life and how you live?
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
1:17 pm
Bruno, I can see that point as well. However:
– In every other context Hitchens defines religion as a belief in the supernatural. I don’t think it’s “playing fair” to then suddenly redefine religion as faith in a person or a political or economic philosophy just because it suits your debating needs.
– It may be true to a degree that religious faith appeals to the same basic human desire as hero worship, etc. The problem then is with that basic human desire, which is the point I’m trying to make.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
1:18 pm
Mick some typos in your 12:58
Ayn Rant
April 23rd, 2012
1:18 pm
What a lot of worthless twiddle-twaddle! Religion, fascism, and totalitarian communism have one thing in common: dogma over rationality. The real purpose of dogma is to delineate “we” and “them”, to define who we should care for and who we should hate. The results vary according to the dogma and the practitioners.
Even saintly dogma can produce evil results. Christians have been at each other’s throats since the religion was announced by Christ and organized by the Roman Emperor Constantine. As examples, the principle translator/author of the treasured King James Bible was tortured to death by devout Roman Catholics. Roman Catholics in England were cruelly persecuted, and their property confiscated, by pious English Protestants.
Dogma is best acknowledged grudgingly, as something others cling to when they can’t accept reason and truth.
man behind the curtain
April 23rd, 2012
1:19 pm
“Meanwhile the NY Times has a piece abouthow Obama is making unprecedented grabs for executive power…”
Wrong, Jm, the article said nothing about it being unprecedented.
Mary Elizabeth
April 23rd, 2012
1:20 pm
President John F. Kennedy on being a liberal…
“I believe in human dignity as the source of national purpose, in human liberty as the source of national action, in the human heart as the source of national compassion, and in the human mind as the source of our invention and our ideas. It is, I believe, the faith in our fellow citizens as individuals and as people that lies at the heart of the liberal faith. For liberalism is not so much a party creed or set of fixed platform promises as it is an attitude of mind and heart, a faith in man’s ability through the experiences of his reason and judgment to increase for himself and his fellow men the amount of justice and freedom and brotherhood which all human life deserves.”
“But if by a ‘Liberal’ they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a ‘Liberal,’ then I’m proud to say I’m a ‘Liberal.’ ”
http://www.myleftwing.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=539
==================================================
Thomas Jefferson was, also, considered to be a liberal thinker, both by himself and by others. He was certainly a man who “look(ed) ahead and not behind, who welcome(d) new ideas without rigid reactions, who care(d) about the welfare of the people. . .”
“We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal,” the liberal and egalitarian baseline for America, penned by Jefferson.
In terms of the article above, balance, and humanity toward all, should prevail. All have the potential for a lust for power. Self-awareness and good intent is critical to maintaining balance and humanity, both personally and nationally.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
1:20 pm
You are debating the particulars. Greed and cruelty are part of human nature. That’s not religions or political fault. Unless you address the root cause, you’re just skimming the surface.
JF McNamara–You and I think exactly alike on this issue. Though we consider ourselves to be “rational beings”, in the end it is emotion which drives us. But, because emotion is a feeling, it has to manifest itself in other, more tangible ways, such as an expression of religious faith or allegiance to a political leader or even support for a particular sports team. In this way, all of our outward actions are simply a reflection of our human nature. Though it’s arguable that human nature has evolved somewhat over time, I don’t think we’ll ever get away from our “pack animal” roots. Us and Them, Liberal and Conservative, White and Black, Yankee and Southerner.
Mr. Snarky
April 23rd, 2012
1:22 pm
Ideology and religion, when abused, are just levers that people can use to justify oppressing others.
Generation$crewed
April 23rd, 2012
1:23 pm
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
1:06 pm
I can certainly see that as a reason.
However if people were only talking about what they know this blog would be a real silent place
M
April 23rd, 2012
1:24 pm
If God suddenly appeared to *me* and proved his existence, I’d have an awful lot of very pointed questions for him (or her).
I’m ready when you are, Deity.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
1:25 pm
Science is the new religion.
The others will become
irrelevant.
RB from Gwinnett
April 23rd, 2012
1:25 pm
M. What would your questions be?
sam
April 23rd, 2012
1:27 pm
Goldberg is lazy, writes what people want to hear..hitchens was a bit too out there for me
Bill Orvis White
April 23rd, 2012
1:27 pm
Mr. Hitchens was a troubled man when it came to God, but Mr. Goldberg is right. Nazi Germany is very similar to the post-1960s/feministic/urban-centric “idealism” as envisioned by secular progressives Jessie Jackson, Gloria Steinem, Jimmah Carter, Cornel West, Bill Ayres, Bubba Clintax, Bawney Fwank, Father Pfleger and Hussein Obama. All believe in “leveling the playing field” like Hitler (and later his friends ranging from Mao, Pot, Chavez, Castro to Um, Hussein and Ahmadinejad). The big difference between Nazi Germany and modern-day liberalism is that Nazi Germany wasn’t naive – like the failed presidents who refused to stare down evildoers. Everything else is pretty much the same from banishing the Lord Almighty from the public square to cracking down on conservative free speech.
Amen,
Bill
godless heathen©
April 23rd, 2012
1:28 pm
RB: “JF, what would you do if God came to you and proved he was real? Would you change anything about your life and how you live?”
I don’t about JF, but I’d change my blogging handle.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
1:29 pm
“Those who believe in no god but want to believe in good/evil do not make sense. Without some authority to define good/evil there is no absolute on which to rest our cases.”
Ah, the old “no atheist can be moral” canard.
In other words, no one can have a personal code of honesty and ethical dealings; it must be imposed on us by an outside force.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
1:29 pm
It is true that humans have a tendency to form and join groups that exclude others, to escape being alone and to have some comfort in belonging. That is the problem. Hitchens was wrong to claim that tendency as religion. I think he made an error on that. But, religions goups can fall into that same error if they become hostile and violent toward non-members.
Calling all such groups a religious groups as Hitchens did is not correct.
M
April 23rd, 2012
1:30 pm
Too many to list here. But they would include:
Cancer: why?
Couldn’t you pick just ONE version of your perfect holy book?
At what point did you decide that your infallible representative on Earth should cover up child rape?
Why are so many of your purported followers complete holier-than-thou jerks?
Would it have killed you to just leave lasting evidence of your existence rather than make so many people guess?
Why was human sacrifice ever a solution for anything, and where do you get off telling me that I sinned enough to kill someone else, and then making that sacrificial lamb your son? And then making me feel guilty for that?
That ought to make Him/Her sweat for a bit.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
1:32 pm
In every other context Hitchens defines religion as a belief in the supernatural. I don’t think it’s “playing fair” to then suddenly redefine religion as faith in a person or a political or economic philosophy just because it suits your debating needs.
Fair enough, Jay. As stated above, I’m not necessarily adopting Hitchens POV, just stating that there seems to be a kernel of truth in what he is saying.
– It may be true to a degree that religious faith appeals to the same basic human desire as hero worship, etc. The problem then is with that basic human desire, which is the point I’m trying to make.
Then we are in absolute agreement along with JF McNamara above. I see all of our outward actions in life as a manifestation of our fundamental human nature. And though the particular outward manifestations may vary from culture to culture, the emotional basis underlying these varied expressions seems to be pretty constant world-wide.
Mick
April 23rd, 2012
1:33 pm
jm
No typos, just a fruedian slip of the keyboard…
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
1:33 pm
Generation$crewed – Very true, but at the same time, religion is probably one of the touchiest topics in the world. Look at how many people have been killed, both here and abroad simply for a perceived insult to someone’s religion. I’ll expound on topics all day, but when it comes to religion, I typically speak only about that which I know well. I’m not religious, but I know and understand how seriously people take it and how deeply held their beliefs are. I’m not one (obviously, only speaking personally) to needlessly provoke or upset someone about their religion simply because I got one or two details wrong. Therefore, when I speak about religion, I tend to stick to Christianity. It is what I know.
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
1:34 pm
Oscar: It is true that humans have a tendency to form and join groups that exclude others, to escape being alone and to have some comfort in belonging.
Careful how you say that. The perfect non-sinners here will call you arrogant, tell you they don’t want to be in your group, and demand that you come off your high horse.
RB from Gwinnett
April 23rd, 2012
1:35 pm
So basically, M, what you’re implying is you think you’re worthy of questioning God?
Good luck with that
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
1:35 pm
Mighty deep train of thought you shifted to here, Jay. What brought that about.
M
April 23rd, 2012
1:36 pm
I am worthy of questioning any deity that appears in my living room, because I’m not a slave, and certain atrocities demand explanations prior to anything resembling “worship.”
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
1:36 pm
Read the first part and thought it sounded a lot like the exchanges on this blog.
Read about Hitchens and it appears he does what he decries in others. It isn’t about the truth, it’s about winning. So he appears to have more than a little ego invested and seems to want to keep himself as the object of reverence and adoration of his followers.
Also strikes me that we take terms with our 21st century American definitions and try to apply them back thru the centuries. So Hitler instituted national education and national health? Doesn’t mean he was a ‘lliberal.”
“It is dangerous for any group of people to wrap themselves in a belief that they are immune to the temptations of power, because once you make that mistake, those temptations become all the harder to resist.”
To that I will add, it’s dangerous for any political group to think their opponents are evil, do not have any knowledge, redeeming characteristics or any worthwhile solutions, and reject any and all attempts to seek common ground through compromise. Arrogance, the desire for power and self delusion make for a dangerous combination.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
1:36 pm
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
1:34 pm
____________
Sure, the non-members always call the members arrogant. That is why the member band together and put the non-members in work camps or kill them if they get become to bothersome.
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
April 23rd, 2012
1:37 pm
Whatever
April 23rd, 2012
12:59 pm
It’s like what someone has said….faith and I might add, listen to your heart and not another man who might not have your best interest in mind…
Mick
April 23rd, 2012
1:37 pm
When jesse ventura years ago said that many people use religion as a crutch, I thought that was a pretty bold statement for a politician. I believe there is some truth to that…
Generation$crewed
April 23rd, 2012
1:38 pm
M
April 23rd, 2012
1:30 pm
Not to butt in, but…
Aren’t all those questions to be asked of Organized religions?, not a god or gods to answer?
Other than cancer? But for arguement sake there is a god I bet he/she/it would have an answer that is beyond your earthly comprehension or mine.
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
1:39 pm
Oscar,
While that sounds like it could be fun, I usually just opt to cross them off my list of to-die-for homemade holiday PIE recipients!
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
1:39 pm
“Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear”
Thomas Jefferson
man behind the curtain
April 23rd, 2012
1:39 pm
In my humble opinion what we call “God” is a personification of our own human psyches. No different than Zeus and all the others.
“The tao that can be told is not the eternal tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name….
Darkness within darkness
The gate to all mystery”
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
1:40 pm
It is said that power corrupts, but actually it’s more true that power attracts the corruptible. The sane are usually attracted by other things than power.
~ David Brin
M
April 23rd, 2012
1:40 pm
Why would you assume it’s beyond our comprehension? People who say “there’s no way we can understand the mind of God” are often the same people who, in the very next breath, say “God wants you to do _______ .”
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
1:40 pm
If absolute power corrupts absolutely, where does that leave God?
~ George Deacon
RB from Gwinnett
April 23rd, 2012
1:42 pm
M. Why do you assign the deeds of men to God as is he commited them himself?
To whom do you assign the slaughter in Darfur? Are you blaming God for that to? If you’re blaming him for all that’s wrong in this world, are you also giving him credit for all that’s good?
Or are you just lost and miserable and looking for somebody to blame?
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
1:43 pm
The meanings of the terms liberal and conservative and left and right have change meanings so much over the years, and mean so many things to different people that they are hardly valid terms any more.
A better way to describe governments would be to used the terms totalitarian and democratic and to judge each government on a scale of demoracy and rights allowed to its citizens.
At the present in the US, both liberals and conservatives claim to be more democratic and protective of rights than the other.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
1:45 pm
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat.
~ Donald Regan.
M
April 23rd, 2012
1:45 pm
Cancer is a deed of man?
The crucifixion was a deed of man? (yes, you will say that men DID it, but obviously God intended it to happen, or there would be no “he died for our sins” nonsense).
I assign the slaughter in Darfur to the people doing the slaughtering. But if God is indeed omnipresent as I have been told since birth, why is he watching it and not intervening? Does his Grand Plan include the merciless slaughter of innocents?
Scooter
April 23rd, 2012
1:45 pm
I consider religion to be blind faith that an external entity provides the individual with hope for a brighter future. In that sense it fits… hope of change.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
1:47 pm
The Republicans believe that we are each entitled to the best rights that money can buy and the Democrats believe that tax dollars should be used to buy them.
willie lynch
April 23rd, 2012
1:47 pm
Christopher Hitchens death gave him far more credibility than his work. He like Ronald Reagan benefits from an ignorant audience.
The Dude
April 23rd, 2012
1:47 pm
For those nihilistic Bookman-types who worship the state………………….your God will always disappoint.
.
Oftentimes fatally.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
1:48 pm
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
1:39 pm
Oscar,
While that sounds like it could be fun, I usually just opt to cross them off my list of to-die-for homemade holiday PIE recipients!
___________
After I married I discovered I was in a mixed marriiage and had married outside my faith. My mother always served pumpkin pies at Thanksgiving and my mother in law served pecan. I’ve never quite gotten over the shock,
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
1:49 pm
God is omniscient and omnipresent. He created the heavens and the Earth, but he can’t just tell us he exists with certainty? An all knowing, all powerful deity requires you believe in him but provides no evidence at all of his existence. The last recorded “evidence” was 2000 years ago, and is a dubious amalgamation of god like beliefs of the era. That makes no sense at all.
JF–Per your earlier point, I see little value in debating the “truthfulness” of any particular religious claim. I’m far more interested in understanding WHY people will proclaim “faith” in obviously kooky claims such as Supernatural intervention into our individual lives. By running such claims through the “human nature” filter, the answer becomes much clearer.
In my own case, taking a deeper look at the WHY behind religion has led me to some greater understandings about how our brains work, the nature of truth and why mythological explanations can often reveal more than a strictly “rational” approach can.
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
1:50 pm
Oscar – There is a simple solution to that problem. Serve both (although the pumpkin is obviously the superior choice). There is no downside, except to your waste line.
In other news
April 23rd, 2012
1:50 pm
More diversions from Bookman. Maybe one day he’ll find something good to write about.
godless heathen©
April 23rd, 2012
1:50 pm
Jay “Ah, the old “no atheist can be moral” canard.
In other words, no one can have a personal code of honesty and ethical dealings; it must be imposed on us by an outside force.”
One would wonder why the jails aren’t full of atheists. In actuality, there is a smaller percentage of atheists in prisons than there are in the general population.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
1:51 pm
M
Depends on the religion’s view of God. Sounds like you’re assuming an interventionist, I’ll make it happen, forget free will and absolute choice and responsibility kind of God.
M
April 23rd, 2012
1:55 pm
Paul, if you’re edging towards deism, I have more respect for that view. It at least doesn’t have any of the absurd specificity that most modern religions have.
The notion that a deity created this universe and either walked away or just let it run itself for kicks, while still highly unlikely, is MUCH more likely than the ideas of most Christians/Muslims/Jews.
Generation$crewed
April 23rd, 2012
1:55 pm
M
April 23rd, 2012
1:40 pm
1st you would be wrong to assume I would claim to know what god wants you to do. I feel my god and I have a relationship, the relationship or lack of one is between you and god or gods.
2nd I feel that any being capable of creating or setting in motion the events that have formed the universe, earth and us, most likely has a reason we may not have thought of. But its only my bet! Its not a claim of fact you and I couldn’t comprehend.
I may be able to
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
1:55 pm
Oscar,
We mix pecans in the pumpkin pie. Whatever it takes to keep the peace.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
1:56 pm
Careful how you say that. The perfect non-sinners here will call you arrogant, tell you they don’t want to be in your group, and demand that you come off your high horse.
Matti–For the record, my earlier objection to you setting up a “Southerners Only” club is based on your own complaints of being excluded in the past based on your gender or political orientation. You don’t like it when you are the “outsider”, yet seem extremely willing to participate in the same behavior as long as you are an “insider”.
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
1:57 pm
Mmmm… PIE! A sliver of each will do nicely.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
1:57 pm
Meanwhile back at the ranch
Social security and Medicare trustees issued new warnings today
Social security disability fund will be broke in 2016
Regular trust fund exhausted in 2036, 2 years earlier than previous
Given they lop off about a year for every year we go down the road, I’d say it’s bust in 2024
Though we’ll be broke entirely before this decade is out unless a new president is elected
Aquagirl
April 23rd, 2012
1:58 pm
taking a deeper look at the WHY behind religion has led me to some greater understandings about how our brains work, the nature of truth and why mythological explanations can often reveal more than a strictly “rational” approach can.
Chimpanzees show religious tendencies, so it seems to be hardwired into our brains. You even have sects of Thor-worshiping chimps and zen chimps. I’m sure they’ll get organized and slaughter each other when they get civilized enough.
http://www.janegoodall.org/chimp-central-waterfall-displays
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
1:59 pm
M
I find many of the definitions/explanations don’t really convey what the person wants to convey. Like people who ask for certain ‘blessings.’ One could say they view the Universe as operating according to certain laws and if they align themselves with those laws or principles that certain results may more than likely occur. But what a lot of people hear from that is ‘oh, so you want God to wave a wand and make it all better?”
Lots of Hitchens-like debate scoring and not enough searching for understanding goes on.
The Dude
April 23rd, 2012
2:01 pm
Obama/Romney=corruption, war/death,nihilism,staleness,darkness,depression, malaise, climate-change neurosis,killer tornados, Moscow in November.
.
Ron Paul=an Exuberance of joy,personal liberty, happiness, peace, Freedom, and April in Charlestown.
mm
April 23rd, 2012
2:01 pm
I’m disgusted every time I see “Republican” and “Christian” in the same sentence. Their actions certainly don’t mirror their beliefs.
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
2:02 pm
I am shocked that Jay is attacking Comrade Stalin, for Comrade Stalin offered Universal Healthcare, fought for “Social Justice”, and made everyone pay their FAIR SHARE of Taxes just like Jay always preaches.
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
2:04 pm
Bruno,
Don’t play dense. I didn’t say I excluded people for not being Southern. I said “messing with people” (any new people, not just yankees) is our way of seeing if they can take a joke and not take themselves too seriously. You twisted it into something else. People laugh at me. I laugh at myself. I feel better about someone laughing at me if they can also laugh at themselves. You’re not as nice as you pretend to be.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
2:04 pm
After I married I discovered I was in a mixed marriiage and had married outside my faith. My mother always served pumpkin pies at Thanksgiving and my mother in law served pecan. I’ve never quite gotten over the shock
In my own case, it came down to bread-based “stuffing” cooked inside the turkey vs. cornbread-based “dressing” cooked in a pan. Hard to keep the “dressing” from drying out.
In other words, no one can have a personal code of honesty and ethical dealings; it must be imposed on us by an outside force.
heathen–I doubt if Jay noticed, but he revealed a deep inconsistency in his own political position with that statement. As far as society goes, Jay seems to have little faith in self-regulation, and is all for a top-down governmental approach.
RB from Gwinnett
April 23rd, 2012
2:05 pm
M. Why complain about cancer and not car accidents? Don’t they both result in death?
All Of us would like to understand the whys of Gods plan, M, but to whine about his plan and appoint yourself worthy of questioning that plan is rather arrogant of you.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
2:05 pm
Usmc
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
2:05 pm
Meanwhile Comrade Obama has raised the debt 5 TRILLION Dollars
That is $5,000,000,000,000….
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_debt_chart.html
In other news
April 23rd, 2012
2:06 pm
“n response, Hitchens offered what I consider to be an intellectually lazy answer”
Too bad Hitchens isn’t here to mock you, Jay. Then again, Hitchens, nor anyone else outside of the AJC blogs has ever heard of you.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
2:07 pm
Scotch v Gin
M
April 23rd, 2012
2:07 pm
Personally, I just take the Occam’s Razor approach.
“There is no god, and human beings can really be jerks.”
is infinitely more likely than
“Well, there is a god, and he’s omnipotent (probably)…and sometimes he acts this way, and sometimes completely different. He loves us, but he’ll punish us eternally for violating an arbitrary list of rules. He’s also never around, but trust us, he’s there. He could intervene in human affairs and stop needless violence and suffering, but he doesn’t. I mean, where would the fun be if we didn’t have free will? Except I just remembered that sometimes he did intervene. And we pray to him and ask him for things, even though he supposedly has this perfect plan and why would he change that just for us? But we’re gonna pray anyway. Also he killed his son, but he totally had a good reason.”
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
2:09 pm
Ahhhh, yes… speaking of Dictators… Obama side steps Congress… Nice
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47138446/ns/politics-the_new_york_times/#.T5Wag9WNlrl
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
2:09 pm
Bruno – Hate to disagree, but if you can’t keep dressing from drying out, you ain’t doing it right. I’ve never had stuffing, and I’ve never been subjected to dry dressing. Then again, I know plenty of people who serve dry chunks of crumbly stuff they call “cornbread” that isn’t deserving of the name, so maybe that’s where the problem lies.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
2:10 pm
usmc
isn’t $5 trillion a small price to pay to be rescued from the jaws of the great depression 2?
and a small price to pay for our great recovery?
M
April 23rd, 2012
2:10 pm
OK, RB, I’ll discuss car accidents. Why does an all-loving all-good God allow good people to be killed in unspeakable pain in car accidents, leaving loved ones behind to grieve?
It’s not arrogant to question a deity when a deity’s practices are not worthy of respect, much less worship. If he wants to smite me with a lightning bolt, it is his prerogative. I’ll wait.
Jefferson
April 23rd, 2012
2:13 pm
Gomer, he is still the best choice and you sound like a sour puss, with all your squalling.
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
2:13 pm
M – I’ve always wondered why an all knowing and all loving and all good deity would punish those simply because they were never introduced to his (preferred?) religion? Also, why would a deity who knows everything and is all powerful need people to worship him. Does he have such a small and fragile ego that he can’t exist simply knowing what others think/feel?
Lucifer
April 23rd, 2012
2:14 pm
Lenin was highly suspicious of Stalin because of his propensity of making himself “godlike” through a cult of personality with the people. Look what is going on in North Korea. The leadership has their people so thoroughly brainwashed that they hold their leader in esteem regardless if he fails to provide the masses with enough food for survival. Now, I disagree with Hitchins that this cult of personality is a “religion” in and of itself, but Hitchins was an intellectual giant and one hellava writer. In his book “god is not great” he quotes several passages from Thomas Paine’s book “The Age of Reason.” So, I took the time to read Paine’s book, and indeed I arrived at these conclusions: The Holy Bible does not contain the “word of God” and quotes attributed to Jesus weren’t written until hundreds of years after Jesus died and are suspect; the Gospels contain so many inconsistencies from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John that any intelligent and logical researcher would admit such; the Bible is a violent and obscene rendering of mankind that it should be labled “PORN” and children should not be allowed to read it. And, Paine rightly points out, religion is a manmade invention created to rule over and manipulate the masses, give clergy power, and obtain money from all the “terrible” sinners who should spend their days professing their sins and bowing at the altar of God Almighty. Hitchens was on the right track and Paine leveled both the Old and New Testiments by going through the forest (his words) and with the strokes of a powerful lumberjack felling the trees .. i.e., each chapter of the scriptures he takes apart and lays them bare — revealing them for the illogical frauds that they are. Remember, a collective of Church clergy “voted” on which chapters got into the Holy Bible and which would be left out. In other words, which language would best serve their purposes and give them power and profit — hardly a “divine” way to conduct business.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
2:14 pm
M
“is infinitely more likely than ”
You might find it worthwhile to spend some time with a Buddhist, Christian Scientist, Religious Science, or something that doesn’t lend itself to so many caricatures.
————————————
I’l second (ir)Rational. Dressing. Not cornbread. LOTS of melted butter. Never dries out.
M
April 23rd, 2012
2:15 pm
You’d think he’d just snap his fingers and give him an ego that could handle it.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
2:16 pm
M
“Why does an all-loving all-good God allow good people to be killed in unspeakable pain in car accidents, leaving loved ones behind to grieve? ”
Read the book of Job.
Then read “When Bad Things Happen to Good People” by Kushner.
Then ask josef.
M
April 23rd, 2012
2:16 pm
Paul,
Christian Scientists lost me at “disease is caused by fear, sin, and ignorance.”
M
April 23rd, 2012
2:17 pm
The book of Job is one of the most appalling books in the Bible, and that’s saying a lot.
philosopher
April 23rd, 2012
2:18 pm
Paul, “To that I will add, it’s dangerous for any political group to think their opponents are evil, do not have any knowledge, redeeming characteristics or any worthwhile solutions, and reject any and all attempts to seek common ground through compromise. Arrogance, the desire for power and self delusion make for a dangerous combination.”
I absolutely agree. The root of all evil: power, arrogance and self-delusion…those things upon which “religions” are based.
Faith in God (or a lack of it) is a deeply personal experience, not a tool or weapon or a gauge to measure another.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
2:18 pm
The notion that a deity created this universe and either walked away or just let it run itself for kicks, while still highly unlikely, is MUCH more likely than the ideas of most Christians/Muslims/Jews.
M–As far as we know, the Universe that we can observe is all we have. We can hypothesize about Supernatural Beings who can defy the known Laws of Physics at whim, but without any evidence to support it, we might as well believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
The building block of our current Universe is the atom. As such, we ultimately have to explain all of the observable phenomena in terms of atomic properties, which is the whole point of Quantum Mechanics. Unfortunately, there remains a deep disconnect between known atomic properties and the amazingly complex macro-world that we inhabit. In particular, life is unexplainable in terms of atomic properties. The seeming ability for atoms to “self-organize” into larger, purposeful entities cannot be explained at our current level of knowledge.
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
2:18 pm
“isn’t $5 trillion a small price to pay to be rescued from the jaws of the great depression 2?
and a small price to pay for our great recovery?”
…small price??? …great recovery???
Whatever you say Uncle Samantha… “Pass the Dutchie from the Lefthand side…”
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
April 23rd, 2012
2:19 pm
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
2:09 pm
I knew one of you would bring this up when I heard of it. Quite a selective memory you have. President Bush made that move is signature act. And…if Congress had been more into working for America, President Obama would not have to resort to the same tactics.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
2:19 pm
Sooooo. the NAZI “national socialism” party is conservative and right wing? Really Jay? As was the predecessor to the nazi party from which it sprang- the “German workers party”? Yep. Those sound like real conservative political parties to me. I can’t make it any simpler for the libs.
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
2:20 pm
M – You would think, but I can see how churches are satisfied with the current set-up. They get loads of money for telling people how horrible they are. Quite the nice set-up.
M
April 23rd, 2012
2:20 pm
Bruno, I think I agree with you, if I read your post correctly. As long as you’re not saying “we can’t explain it” is equivalent to “God probably did it.”
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
2:21 pm
“isn’t $5 trillion a small price to pay to be rescued from the jaws of the great depression 2?
and a small price to pay for our great recovery?”
I would like some of whatever Uncle Samantha is drinking. Or smoking.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
2:22 pm
Read the book of Job.
Then read “When Bad Things Happen to Good People” by Kushner.
Then ask josef.
You might also consider some of the books of renowned religious scholar Bart D. Ehrman:
http://www.bartdehrman.com/books.htm
He directly investigates the Biblical explanation of Evil in his book “God’s Problem”.
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
April 23rd, 2012
2:22 pm
M
April 23rd, 2012
2:17 pm
I always thought that if you read “The Book of JOB” as a play, it makes more sense. I believe that that is what it was meant to be… A moral play.
Penny Pincher
April 23rd, 2012
2:22 pm
godless heathen©
April 23rd, 2012
1:28 pm
That was funny, mad my day, thank you.
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
2:23 pm
“I would like some of whatever Uncle Samantha is drinking. Or smoking.”–Thulsa Doom
Wait your turn Doomy! It’s coming from the Lefthand side… and I’m next!
M
April 23rd, 2012
2:23 pm
Ehrman’s book “Misquoting Jesus” is one of my favorites.
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
2:24 pm
IMO: Bad things happen to good people because that’s the way the universe IS — no matter how or why we were brought into existence. It just IS. Any attempt to explain it is just our need to make sense of something that makes no sense.
Why do good, strong people get cancer and suffer and die horrible deaths, or have heart attacks or tragic accidents and die w/o saying goodbye, leaving us to grieve…. while nasty, surly, selfish jerks who lash out at others, or drain the life from us, just to make everyone as miserable as they are, go on and on, year after year, like freaking energizer bunnies, while we bury the precious among us and yearn for days that will never return?
There is no answer. We just wish there were.
M
April 23rd, 2012
2:25 pm
Even as a moral play, I’d find the book of Job to be appalling. A capricious and callous God wins a bet with the Devil (who he ostensibly created in the first place) by destroying the entire life of a man who has done nothing but love and serve him? Egad.
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
2:25 pm
So, Penny Pincher, just out of curiosity, are you pinching pennies, or do you know a cute girl named Penny that you would like to pinch?
My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)
April 23rd, 2012
2:26 pm
“It is dangerous for any group of people to wrap themselves in a belief that they are immune to the temptations of power, because once you make that mistake, those temptations become all the harder to resist. ”
Jay, that can’t be true. According to some here, it’s the “other” side of the aisle that is responsible for the evils in the world/country.
BTW, REALLY good piece.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
2:28 pm
You’re not as nice as you pretend to be.
Matti–As far as I know, I’ve never pretended to be “nice”, certainly not any “nicer” than anyone else in this world. If I have, it most likely was a case of seeing a toothpick in someone else’s eye and failing to see the telephone pole in my own.
We all have our demons, and I’m often not proud of how my own manifest themselves. Fair enough?? And just so you know, it doesn’t matter how you feel toward me or whether you choose to address me again on the blog or not, I’m still going to care about you.
Mick
April 23rd, 2012
2:29 pm
usmc
For a jarhead, you really are quite a girlie man…oooo obama cost us 5 trillion…ooooo obama is a dictator…ooooo..what wimpus!!
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
2:29 pm
USMC,
You have to admit. Uncle Samantha’s comment was one of the funniest things I’ve ever read on here. The funniest part is that he wasn’t intending to be funny. He must be drinking some other special spiked Kool-Aid.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
2:34 pm
M
That was my initial reaction, too, then I looked at it from the standpoint of dwelling on negativity and found some principles worth pursuing.
Book of Job – like I said, read Kushner. Good discussion of symbolism and principles. (For example, he likens the beginning of Satan going to God and saying “wanna make a bet?” as the Hebrew writing equivalent of “Once upon a time…” People who take everything literally are at a severe disadvantage in understanding.
Bruno 2:18
Thoughtful third paragraph. I hope carlosgvv sees it.
M
Misquoting Jesus is a good read. I think if a person came to the Bible never having read it, having no preconceptions, just after reading Misquoting Jesus, he’d have a much different view than many as to what the New Testament’s all about -
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
2:34 pm
$5 trillion is nothing compared to having to eat dog food to survive and sleeping in tents waiting for jobs to pop up digging ditches …………. i for one am grateful that he wasted all of our money so that we didnt have to experience such things
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
2:35 pm
Get your religion out of my politics cons.
Thanks.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
2:35 pm
Bruno, I think I agree with you, if I read your post correctly. As long as you’re not saying “we can’t explain it” is equivalent to “God probably did it.”
M–I haven’t seen you here much before unless you recently changed your blog handle, but I am an epistemological nihilist. What we ultimately “know” relates directly back to the way that our brains work and how we perceive the world through our limited methods of understanding. If it helps, my Physics hero is Richard Feynman, and this is my favorite quote attributed to him:
“I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong. If we will only allow that, as we progress, we remain unsure, we will leave opportunities for alternatives. We will not become enthusiastic for the fact, the knowledge, the absolute truth of the day, but remain always uncertain … In order to make progress, one must leave the door to the unknown ajar.”
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
2:36 pm
“The leadership has their people so thoroughly brainwashed that they hold their leader in esteem regardless if he fails to provide the masses with enough food for survival. ”
I had no idea lucifer was anti Obama. Welcome to the party.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
2:36 pm
“Why does an all-loving all-good God allow good people to be killed in unspeakable pain in car accidents, leaving loved ones behind to grieve? ”
Mark Twain, in “Letters from Earth” (I think that’s right) – tells the story of an Angel that comes to earth and meets with some boys. As they are walking and talking they spot someone drowning in the river, and the Angel does nothing to stop it happening. And the boys berate the Angel, who tells them he looked down the timeline of that person’s future and every timeline but one ended in him living the rest of his life completely paralyzed and dependent on others for all his care and feeding.
Penny Pincher
April 23rd, 2012
2:37 pm
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
2:25 pm
yes
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
2:38 pm
“For a jarhead, you really are quite a girlie man…oooo obama cost us 5 trillion…ooooo obama is a dictator…ooooo..what wimpus!!”–Mick
Mick, aren’t you the one that served in the “Jewish Navy”… I mean the Coast Guard???
Are you are actually laughing off $5 TRILLION debt, Mick??? Unbelievable!
Mick, I know you are more responsible than that. What is your personal Debt?
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
2:39 pm
Looks like Uncle Samantha is crushing some cons.
Welcome to the blog.
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
2:40 pm
Penny Pincher – I see.
My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)
April 23rd, 2012
2:40 pm
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
12:55 pm
Meanwhile the NY Times has a piece abouthow Obama is making unprecedented grabs for executive power…
________________________________________________________________________________
F
O
C
U
S
!
This has nothing to do with Obama.
Or Bush for that matter (although they BOTH will be tossed out there in a reply to Jay’s party neurtral piece)
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
2:42 pm
“$5 trillion is nothing compared to having to eat dog food to survive and sleeping in tents waiting for jobs to pop up digging ditches …………. i for one am grateful that he wasted all of our money so that we didnt have to experience such things”
And this is the typical lack of Intelligence displayed from DemocRats… Predictable.
Your statement is utterly ridiculous, but I respect your right to say it.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
2:43 pm
$5 TRILLION is only about $17,000 per each citizen of the United States……….. that is a small price to pay to not have to eat dog food
willie lynch
April 23rd, 2012
2:44 pm
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
2:19 pm
What did the Nazi party do that would be considered socialist? The idea that they would be considered socialist in anything but name indicates either stupidity or plain deceitfulness in the believer or one who espouses such views.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
2:45 pm
People who take everything literally are at a severe disadvantage in understanding.
Paul–Here is my post to Common Sense a few years ago when he brought up the topic of a literal Bible:
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
2:35 pm
It would take much too long to explain here so in your case just stick with the four Gospels (no argument on that) and you can find the TRUTH you need for eternal life.
“Common Sense–I respect your sincerity on this topic and hope that you can appreciate mine in return. Let me explain my perspective on Christianity:
Back in 1897, a young lady named Virginia wrote a letter to the New York Sun questioning whether Santa Claus really existed. The famous reply, of course, is “Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy.”
So, to you, I say, “Yes, Common Sense, there is a Christ. He exists certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist….”
Many people, like yourself, insist upon a literal interpretation of the Bible just as small children believe in a literal Santa Claus. However, at some point in life, we realize that literal explanations of supernatural phenomena can’t stand rigorous scrutiny. At that point, we can simply reject such explanations out-of-hand, or, like the editor of the newspaper, we can search for a greater meaning.
In the end, IMO, a non-literal interpretation of the Bible does not diminish the message in any way, but in fact enhances it. Just my opinion, of course.”
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/11/18/fathers-and-sons-and-war-another-chapter-in-an-age-old-story/?cp=5#comment-167752
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
2:45 pm
So, assuming this $5 trillion wasn’t spent, your assertion is that we would all be eating dog food now? To borrow from the great philosopher (Dr.) Bugs Bunny, “what a maroon!”
M
April 23rd, 2012
2:46 pm
Bruno…I lurk a lot, and comment only occasionally.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
2:48 pm
prove to me we wouldn’t have been eating dog food if obama hadn’t have saved us…………
then prove to me god exists
carlosgvv
April 23rd, 2012
2:48 pm
The key to all of this is blind faith in those who have the power. Whether it is religious leaders or tyrants, those who keep them in power because of blind faith must bear some of the responsibility of the evils done by these tyrants. Hitler was elected, Popes are venerated and evils are done in the name of some ism, whether religious or secular. There will always be those who have such a lust for power that they will use either politics or religion to fool the masses into blindly following them. To these tyrants, religion or politics are just tools to get and keep power. Fooling the people into thinking their leaders actually believe what they preach is as old as civilization.
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
2:48 pm
“$5 TRILLION is only about $17,000 per each citizen of the United States……….. that is a small price to pay to not have to eat dog food”–Uncle Samantha
Have you paid YOUR $17,000 yet???
Or when do YOU plan to pay YOUR $17,000 share of the $5 TRILLION Debt OBAMA has charged up?
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
2:49 pm
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
2:43 pm
“$5 TRILLION is only about $17,000 per each citizen of the United States……….. that is a small price to pay to not have to eat dog food”.
Holy cow. It just gets funnier and funnier. Confucious say “When in a hole quite digging deeper”.
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
2:50 pm
So I have to prove your assertion to be untrue? I don’t think that is how it works here. But hey, you do what you want, and the rest of us can laugh at you. As for your other order, I’ve never made that claim, at least not here, and I can assure you that I never will.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
2:50 pm
Bruno 2:45
I pretty much concur with that.
Altho sometimes I can’t resist acting out, for the benefit of a literalist, when Saul witnessed Stephen’s stoning and it said the heavens opened and Stephen saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God -
at which point I step on my right hand and smile –
They usually don’t see the humor.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
April 23rd, 2012
2:51 pm
Both gents are/were a bit Nutters. But for a leaned guy to even suggest that fascism is a liberal concept is a huge stretch.
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
April 23rd, 2012
2:51 pm
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
2:48 pm
Del,
I would gladly pay it if everyone else would. I love this country. I have served it, fought for it, and bled for it. If serving my country means paying more taxes, I am all for it. I call it duty.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
2:52 pm
willie stench,
I see you mentioned stupidity. What better person to speak of it so well since you abound in it in terms of sheer quantity.
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
2:52 pm
“$5 TRILLION is only about $17,000 per each citizen of the United States……….. that is a small price to pay to not have to eat dog food”–Uncle Samantha
Whats wrong with Dog Food???
Uncle Samantha must be one of those (1%) One Per-centers who lives on caviar and Lobster…
Based on your comments, Uncle Samantha, you sound like you eat out at McDonald’s quite frequently…
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
2:52 pm
I think the Catholics need to shut up and get out of politics before they lose all their good people.
hitler welched on WWI reparations.
He was a con welcher.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
2:52 pm
proof
dogs eat meat
therefore meat is dog food
humans eat meat
therefore humans eat dog food
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
2:53 pm
“Holy cow. It just gets funnier and funnier. Confucious say “When in a hole quite digging deeper”.”
That doesn’t work in Quick-Sand Doomy!
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
2:55 pm
And there we have the reasoning behind why getalife was praising UNCLE SAMANTHA. Their arguments make just about as much sense. But to play along, dogs eat people food.
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
2:56 pm
Thulsa – Good advice, except when digging a foxhole. Then you can’t be too deep.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
2:56 pm
Thoughtful third paragraph. I hope carlosgvv sees it.
Paul–I’m guessing you saw my reply to carlos the other night when he tried to claim that theoretical Physics is a settled Science, that we know with great certainty how the Universe began and how it will end. Any cursory reading of the literature, of course, reveals that to be a fallacy.
I can’t pretend to know the mind of carlos, but my guess is that he’s stuck in an Existentialist funk. He likely saw how crazy religious “answers” can be, and ended up throwing the Baby out with the Bathwater. I did that for a short while myself, but have come to a different understanding by reading the Bible on my own, without preconceptions.
I think all of us here share some concern for carlos, since he appears to be chronically depressed. Been there and have done it myself, and it’s not a good space to be in.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
2:57 pm
Samantha is punking y’all.
Mick
April 23rd, 2012
2:57 pm
usmc
First off this 5 trillion mythology is a fools errand….so if romney gets in and congress stays the same, will he be tagged with the next 5 trillion? No, you’ll still reach back and try to blame obama when the real culprit, as all truth seekers know, is the dastardly bush administration and the corrupt rubber stamp republican congress 2000-2007, they are responsible for the mess, obama has done his level best to try and clean up the mastadonian turd left in the driveway of all america…
(ir)Rational
April 23rd, 2012
2:58 pm
Jay – Are you saying Samantha is a parody poster? If so, I wish to offer a
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
2:58 pm
Poll: John Edwards 3% favorable rating
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/75458.html
What a Doosh! LOL!
How many Mindless Leftwing ideologues on this blog, including JAY, voted for this Doosh!?!
Jimmy62
April 23rd, 2012
3:00 pm
Funny thing about fascist states and socialist states. They both end up ruled by one person or a small group of people who tell everyone else what to do. Left or right doesn’t matter, it’s the totalitarian part of the formula that matters.
However, you can’t ignore the fact that Hitler came to power on the backs of labor unions, just like Lenin (and then Stalin) did. They both used left wing laborers who didn’t like their lot… They called them useful idiots, and would probably consider Jay another perfect tool to help them meet their goals.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
3:00 pm
the funny part is that the republican responses were so dumb they did not understand the sarcastic nature of my response ……. GREAT RECOVERY……. please………… USMC and his talk radio minions clearly didn’t understand…. its the same tactic that Rush uses and laughs when the medial picks up his sarcastic remarks and prints them thinking he meant them literally
dog food ………. come on
you give conservatives a bad name…….
even most of the dummy liberals knew not to respond because of the riduculousness of it all
Peadawg
April 23rd, 2012
3:01 pm
“so if romney gets in and congress stays the same, will he be tagged with the next 5 trillion? ”
Yup.
stands for decibels
April 23rd, 2012
3:01 pm
$5 TRILLION is only about $17,000 per each citizen of the United States…
shh. You’re not allowed to do simple division in here.
People get real upset, for some reason.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
3:01 pm
JAY
THANK YOU
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
3:01 pm
USMC, I saw you make a similar claim earlier. I was not an Edwards supporter.
willie lynch
April 23rd, 2012
3:02 pm
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
2:52 pm
Great rebuttal. Very well thought out. Thanks for making my point.
Mick
April 23rd, 2012
3:02 pm
usmc
Never like edwards myself, thought he was ok for kerry in 04, I will admit that, but your party is the party that gave us sarah palin, how do you get away from that incompetence??
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
3:03 pm
what is really sad is both parties are punking all of us
$15 trillion and they get over half of the population to think its the fault of one party and not the other
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
3:04 pm
Liberals prefer their heads in the sand
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
3:04 pm
“USMC, I saw you make a similar claim earlier. I was not an Edwards supporter.”
I am resting easier now, thanks Jay.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
3:04 pm
“ridiculousness of it all”
Sums up the gop primary and our cons very well.
Well done.
Jimmy62
April 23rd, 2012
3:04 pm
BTW… I am NOT comparing Obama to Hitler, let me state that right off the bat. Hitler was an evil man, Obama is just incompetent and blinded by years of liberal ideals that never seem to work in real life.
However, the cult of personality that grew up around Obama in the last election would probably remind people who grew up in 1930’s Germany of the cult of personality surrounding Hitler. In both cases a lot of otherwise intelligent people were blinded into thinking one man had the magic answer to everyone’s problems. To say the messiah worship around Obama, and the left’s tendency to dehumanize anyone who disagrees with their groupthink doesn’t smack of fascism is just plain ignorant.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
3:05 pm
we owe $15 trillion in debt because both parties fight over who has the power
not over what the solution to problems are
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
3:05 pm
we owe $15 trillion in debt because both parties fight over who has the power
not over what the solution to problems are
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
3:06 pm
“Never like edwards myself, thought he was ok for kerry in 04, I will admit that, but your party is the party that gave us sarah palin, how do you get away from that incompetence??”–Mick
Do I really need to pull out my Cynthia McKinney card to trump your Sarah Palin, Mick???
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
3:06 pm
Bruno
I did in fact see your response. And I agree with the ‘throw the baby out with the bathwater.” Seems a lot of people do that. But then some draw a fresh bath and it’s a new chapter -
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
3:07 pm
“Samantha is punking y’all.”
What was the first clue?
“Uncle” followed by “Samantha”?
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
3:07 pm
Cynthia McKinney back and running for her old congressional seat…
http://www.ajc.com/news/cynthia-mckinney-back-and-1423983.html
Gheesh!
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
3:07 pm
Edwards the dbag was still the Democrat’s VP nominee in 2004
He almost makes Palin look legit.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
3:08 pm
On topic, here is my other favorite Feynman quote:
“Looking back at the worst times, it always seems that they were times in which there were people who believed with absolute faith and absolute dogmatism in something. And they were so serious in this matter that they insisted that the rest of the world agree with them. And then they would do things that were directly inconsistent with their own beliefs in order to maintain that what they said was true.”
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
3:10 pm
The statistics, some evangelicals say, can no longer be ignored.
Eighty percent of young evangelicals have engaged in premarital sex, according to a new video from the National Association of Evangelicals. and almost a third of evangelicals’ unplanned pregnancies end in abortion.
It’s time to speak honestly about sex because abstinence campaigns and anti-abortion crusades often aren’t resonating in their own pews, evangelical leaders say.
Shocking! The horror!
USMC’s having a slow news day so I thought I would give him something more interesting to talk about than Edwards.
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
3:10 pm
“Samantha is punking y’all.”–Jay
More GHETTO games, meanwhile Obama still has us in Debt to the tune of $5,000,000,000,000…
I guess the joke is on me!
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
3:10 pm
I enjoyed the episode of punked but I found punking the cons is easy to do because they believe what their party tells them to believe.
No questions asked.
RB from Gwinnett
April 23rd, 2012
3:10 pm
M, maybe the horrible can er death is to spare them from living next door to you???
What form of death do you think we’re all entitled to? And wouldn’t have family members grieving?
carlosgvv
April 23rd, 2012
3:10 pm
Bruno – 2:56
So, you think you know more than Nobel prize winning Ph.D mathematicians and physicists. And this is because, in your little mind, scripture tops science.
You are right about one thing. When I see how prevalant this sort of profound ignorance is, I do tend to get a little depressed.
Moderate Line
April 23rd, 2012
3:12 pm
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
1:17 pm
Bruno, I can see that point as well. However:
– In every other context Hitchens defines religion as a belief in the supernatural. I don’t think it’s “playing fair” to then suddenly redefine religion as faith in a person or a political or economic philosophy just because it suits your debating needs.
– It may be true to a degree that religious faith appeals to the same basic human desire as hero worship, etc. The problem then is with that basic human desire, which is the point I’m trying to make.
+++++
There are similarities between religions and idealogies. Both have the element of belief in things which are not self evident or provable. Almost everyone believes in something which can not be proven. Whenever I read something like this I reminded of Socrates who when informed he was the wisist man in Greece responded I am not wise because I know nothing but change his mind when he realized he was the only who realized he did not know anything.
Mick
April 23rd, 2012
3:13 pm
usmc
Sorry, you need another card…trying to put someone a heatbeat away from the president versus a lowly representive? C’mon man-up! Also, if you are going to insult the US coast guard at least show the proper respect by referring to us as shallow water sailors or puddle jumpers but never go where you went private pyle!!!
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
3:13 pm
“USMC’s having a slow news day so I thought I would give him something more interesting to talk about than Edwards.”–(non)Taxpayer
Yeah, I guess non-Taxpayer is still regretting her vote for John Edwards… Stings, doesn’t it???
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
3:14 pm
“However, you can’t ignore the fact that Hitler came to power on the backs of labor unions, just like Lenin (and then Stalin) did.”
Hitler despised labor unions, Jimmy. Immediately upon taking power, he crushed them as a favor to the German industrialists, throwing their leaders in concentration camps and denying them the right to strike or bargain collectively. As William Shirer wrote in his classic “Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”:
“Deprived of his trade unions, collective bargaining and the right to strike, the German worker in the Third Reich became an industrial serf, bound to his master, the employer, much as medieval peasants had been bound to the lord of the manor.”
In other words, Jimmy, you could not be more wrong.
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
3:16 pm
“Sorry, you need another card…trying to put someone a heatbeat away from the president versus a lowly representive?…..”–Mick
Cynthia McKinney On Her Run For President
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96134188
in other words
April 23rd, 2012
3:16 pm
“Hitler despised labor unions, Jimmy.”
As well as Jews, Christians, artists, NY Yankees and black people.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
3:18 pm
carlosgvv
“So, you think you know more than Nobel prize winning Ph.D mathematicians and physicists. ”
I’m butting in only because when I see this kind of an appeal to authority, I have to ask: do ALL Nobel prize-winning Ph.D mathematicians and physicists agree with each other on this topic?
If not, you’re simply siding with the camp you favor and are summarily discounting the other Nobel prize-winning PhD’s as wrong.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
3:19 pm
So, you think you know more than Nobel prize winning Ph.D mathematicians and physicists. And this is because, in your little mind, scripture tops science.
Not sure how you took this message away from my above post, but I’ll have to refer you to Moderate Line’s quote about Socrates: “when informed he was the wisest man in Greece responded I am not wise because I know nothing but changed his mind when he realized he was the only who realized he did not know anything.”
From my perspective, carols, you are attempting to replace religious “certainty” with scientific “certainty”. A fool’s errand in either case. That’s all I’m saying. I don’t know anything, but neither does anyone else, which I can easily prove to you.
You are right about one thing. When I see how prevalant this sort of profound ignorance is, I do tend to get a little depressed.
Again, I can’t know your mindset, but your existentialist depression reminds me of how I felt after reading Jean Paul Sartre for the first time.
stands for decibels
April 23rd, 2012
3:19 pm
Hitler despised labor unions, Jimmy
Jimmy and several others here must’ve put their fingers in their ears and gone “la la la can’t HEAR you…” upon hearing Pastor Niemoller’s bit about the Nazis coming for the trade unionists.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
3:20 pm
USMC,
I don’t recall ever seeing Edwards on the ticket here in Georgia. And as for the (non) attribute, allow me to take this opportunity to thank Republicans and Bush for those Bush tax cuts again. Did you know that a married couple can “earn” over $85,000 on investments and take a standard deduction and pay zero fed or payroll taxes. You rock, dude. Vote Republican and give me another tax cut.
Jimmy62
April 23rd, 2012
3:22 pm
Jay, I said he used them to get to power. I didn’t say he was buddies with them after he came to power. I even mention how he considered them useful idiots, much like Lenin and the Bolsheviks. Does useful idiots sound like something you would call people you respect?
In other words, your reading comprehension skills need some work. I used to earn a little extra money tutoring the SAT, maybe I could help you out.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
April 23rd, 2012
3:22 pm
ANOTHER Mitt Flip Flop……….
Mitt Romney NOW Backs Student Loan Proposal From Barack Obama
THEN:
“It would be popular for me to stand up and say, ‘I’m going to give you government money to pay for your college,’ but I’m not going to promise that,” he said in March. “And don’t expect the government to forgive the debt that you take on.”
NOW:
The former Massachusetts governor made his remarks during his first press availability in well over a month. He returned to the podium to offer his support for the idea, after the event ended without a reporter having asked him about it.
“Particularly with the number of college graduates that can’t find work and can only find work well beneath their skill level, I fully support the effort to extend the low interest rate on student loans,” Romney said. “There was some concern that that would expire halfway through the year and I support extending the temporary relief on interest rates on students as a result of student loans obviously, in part because of the extraordinarily poor conditions in the job market.”
stands for decibels
April 23rd, 2012
3:23 pm
I don’t recall ever seeing Edwards on the ticket here in Georgia
Actually, he was on the Dem. 2008 presidential primary ballot in GA; however, he had officially suspended his operations shortly before the Super Tuesday primary.
Jimmy62
April 23rd, 2012
3:23 pm
Jay, are you denying that Hitler used unions to get to power?
Stands for decibels: I guess you just take what Jay said at face value. Too bad it does not represent my statements. Nice strawman arguments you guys got going.
Fred ™
April 23rd, 2012
3:24 pm
What an odd topic for this place. I liked the one right below but alas I missed it.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
3:25 pm
I’m butting in only because when I see this kind of an appeal to authority, I have to ask: do ALL Nobel prize-winning Ph.D mathematicians and physicists agree with each other on this topic?
Paul–Perhaps you can appreciate my frustration when Jay or JamVet make a similar Appeal to Authority when it comes to AGW. In the end, Truth is not something that can be voted on. It matters not the least to me what % of scientists agree to a particular theory. If it can’t be backed up with reproducible experiments, then it’s conjecture. The History of Science is filled with consensus opinions which later changed with new information. The Ptolemaic model of Planetary Motion immediately comes to mind.
Mitt Romney vs Reality
April 23rd, 2012
3:27 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=858vyozbpWc&feature=relmfu
Mr_B
April 23rd, 2012
3:27 pm
“I even mention how he considered them useful idiots, much like Lenin and the Bolsheviks.”
I’m sure you’re prepared to provide a relevant citation for that statement.
stands for decibels
April 23rd, 2012
3:28 pm
Jimmy, the “they” in your post didn’t exactly make it clear you meant to include Hitler in with Lenin and Stalin, particularly since the term “useful idiots” isn’t generally associated with Hitler.
Anyway, I’m sorry if your tender feefees were hurted.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
3:28 pm
One last Feynman quote, and have to take a break:
“Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.”
I’m thinking the same can be said for blogging…….
Fred ™
April 23rd, 2012
3:28 pm
Paul–Perhaps you can appreciate my frustration when Jay or JamVet make a similar Appeal to Authority when it comes to AGW. In the end, Truth is not something that can be voted on. It matters not the least to me what % of scientists agree to a particular theory. If it can’t be backed up with reproducible experiments, then it’s conjecture. The History of Science is filled with consensus opinions which later changed with new information. The Ptolemaic model of Planetary Motion immediately comes to mind.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Amen. And lets never forget the flat earth society or the sun revolves around the earth society…………
Science isn’t a democracy and virtually every major breakthrough has been AGAINST the “common wisdom of the day.”
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
3:30 pm
Jimmy, you’re compounding your embarrassment.
Jimmy62
April 23rd, 2012
3:30 pm
I don’t know that he used the phrase “useful idiots” but that he used unions as one of many tools in his rise to power is pretty undeniable, and it doesn’t take a great leap of logic to realize he thought they were fools he could use and then discard once he got what he wanted. I’m not going to waste my time finding citations, read any book on Hitler’s rise to power.
Jimmy62
April 23rd, 2012
3:31 pm
Jay: You are compounding your lack of reading comprehension skills.
Are you people denying that Hitler used unions to help him get to power? I never talked about what he did once he was in power. But that he used the unions to get to power is pretty well known history.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
3:31 pm
Joe Cool
“ANOTHER Mitt Flip Flop……….
Mitt Romney NOW Backs Student Loan Proposal From Barack Obama ”
So you disagree with Mitt and Pres Obama on the proposal?
GT
April 23rd, 2012
3:32 pm
Read James Henley Thornwell or Robert Lewis Dabney and you will find theologians redefining the word of God, to a tune of slavery was sanctioned by God. “The world is a battlefield–Christians and atheism the combatants: and the progress of humanity the stakes” It is very difficult to follow how the right and their hatreds have become the lambs of God until you study the history of southern politics and see how far off the word they have come and still call themselves religious. One selfish voice invents and thousands repeat until language mean nothing, lies become truth, documented by uneducated thugs reading red as blue, large as small. No real religious man would misinterpret the Bible in this manner, so how can religion be blamed for an impostor?
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
3:32 pm
Special for carlos:
“What I am going to tell you about is what we teach our physics students in the third or fourth year of graduate school… It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don’t understand it. You see my physics students don’t understand it… That is because I don’t understand it. Nobody does.”
― Richard P. Feynman, QED: The Strange Theory of Light and Matter
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
3:33 pm
Jimmy, you’re compounding your embarrassment.
A trait that many a Republican share.
ragnar danneskjold
April 23rd, 2012
3:33 pm
I disagee with the thesis, and believe Goldberg has the better argument. All leftism is founded on the belief that people are too stupid to manage their affairs, requiring the intervention of overlord/saviors to take care of them. The theory goes back to Plato’s republic, and has always failed in practice, for reasons discovered in 1776 by Adam Smith.
There is no leftism without a cult figure leading the masses. That profile fits the allegedly “right-wing” totalitarian governments such as Nazi Germany and Mussolini’s Italy. How different from Mussolini’s Italy – “he made the railroads run on time” – is the current US government effort to tell private entities, such as churches, what they will and will not cover in health insurance?
Brosephus™
April 23rd, 2012
3:34 pm
In my own case, it came down to bread-based “stuffing” cooked inside the turkey vs. cornbread-based “dressing” cooked in a pan. Hard to keep the “dressing” from drying out.
Somebody doesn’t know how to cook. I don’t have a problem with cornbread dressing being dry. That sounds like a recipe that’s out of whack somewhere.
————————-
Doom
Left you a response downstairs…
Misty Fyed
April 23rd, 2012
3:34 pm
Any time government is over centralized it is far too easy for one person to become the embodiment of a particular movement. Democrats need centralization because they need access to everyone’s wealth for some type of redistribution or wealth equity program. Republicans need centralization to ensure unfettered access to wealth at whatever cost. Both need centralization to control what our kids are being taught.
This sure makes me thankful for our Bill of Rights and the separation of powers that was established here. It’s not perfect but nothing that relies on the integrity of the individual ever will be.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
3:35 pm
Reviewing a transcript of the opening statement of the chief U.S. counsel in the Nuremberg Trials, we found the Nazis:
Seized all funds of labor unions and arrested union leaders, sending them to concentration camps.
Ordered that no workers organizations, except ones created by Hitler, would exist.
Replaced collective bargaining with Hitler-appointed “trustees” to regulate the conditions of all labor contracts.
So, Hitler abolished all unions and collective bargaining by decree, not with legislation. And he used force to liquidate the unions that did exist.
now thats power
Jimmy62
April 23rd, 2012
3:36 pm
This is hilarious. It’s a basic fact of history that no historians even argue about that Hitler used unions to help him get to power. And you guys are all ganging up and calling me a fool for asserting such. Have any of you read a book? Say Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich? From your comments, it’s pretty obvious many of you are ignorant of basic facts about the interwar period.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
3:36 pm
Most of the trade unions in pre-Hitler Germany were part of the Social Democratic Party, which was Hitler’s most powerful opponent.
That’s why he moved so quickly to crush them.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
3:38 pm
Are you people denying that Hitler used unions to help him get to power?
Did they have locals such as the United Fascists Local 138 and did they have regular meetings where they voted on things using secret ballots and did they pay union dues… so many questions…
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
April 23rd, 2012
3:38 pm
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
3:31 pm
Nope, just pointing out Mittens ability to flip like a cirque du soleil performer. He has such a gift.
Jimmy62
April 23rd, 2012
3:38 pm
Uncle Samantha: All of that happened AFTER Hitler rose to power. That in no way contradicts my point. He used left wing labor union and party fools to help him to get to power. What happened after he got power is a different story, and not what I was talking about.
I’m done. You guys go read a history book and come back and talk.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
3:38 pm
Ragnar, the nonsense-to-word ratio in that post approaches infinity.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
3:40 pm
Amen. And lets never forget the flat earth society or the sun revolves around the earth society…………
Fred–In my brief time rubbing elbows with some of the top Scientists/Mathematicians around, I discovered two distinct personality types. The most brilliant folks, to a person , were all extremely humble people who always made no pretense about how little they (we) really knew. Then there was a second group, composed of people like our own Taxpayer, who crowed on with great certainty about how smart they were, always wanting to trump up how many degrees or awards they won.
GT
April 23rd, 2012
3:42 pm
What does God say of wealth? The very perception of wealth being your own is counter to Jesus’ teaching. Or as the old country song goes, “I’ve never seen a Uhaul hooked up behind a hearse.”
ragnar danneskjold
April 23rd, 2012
3:42 pm
Dear Jay @ 3:38, your rejoinder is a mark of failure, as usual.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
3:43 pm
“people are too stupid to manage their affairs, requiring the intervention of overlord/saviors to take care of them. ”
I thought that was Newt’s line about himself?
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
3:43 pm
Perhaps Bruno would be so kind as to provide us with one of his famous ratios of posts by myself touting my accomplishments versus his own. Just for kicks.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
3:43 pm
Jimmy cites Shirer. Very well, let’s see what Shirer has to report about circumstances in 1930, three years before Hitler took over:
“The month of September 1930 marked a turning point in the road that was leading the Germans inexorably toward the Third Reich. The surprising success of the Nazi Party in the national elections convinced not only millions of ordinary people but many leaders in business and in the Army that perhaps here was an upsurge that could not be stopped. They might not like the party’s demagoguery and its vulgarity, but on the other hand it was arousing the old
feelings of German patriotism and nationalism which had been so muted during the first ten years of the Republic. It promised to lead the German people away from communism, socialism, trade-unionism and the futilities of democracy. Above all, it had caught fire throughout the Reich. It was a success.”
In 1930, it promised to lead the German people away from communism, socialism, trade-unionism and the futilities of democracy.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
3:45 pm
Joe Cool
Look on the bright side. Better to get it done early so no surprises after the election like the Left had with Pres Obama…..
Fred ™
April 23rd, 2012
3:46 pm
Misty Fyed: Democrats need centralization because they need access to everyone’s wealth for some type of redistribution or wealth equity program. Republicans need centralization to ensure unfettered access to wealth at whatever cost. Both need centralization to control what our kids are being taught.
That was brilliant. Did you come up with that or get it elsewhere. If it’s original, good damn analysis. If you paraphrased someone else, thanks, I’ve never heard that before. Either way, nice summation.
And off topic, for some reason I want some Yankee cornbread (sweet) with a little jalapeno in it. Maybe even some corn kernels………. and then some of USinUK’s curried tomato soup to dunk it in. yummy.
But I have to go fix a drier so I get NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ&list=PL7B626D544F671E2C&index=12&feature=plpp_video
Religion vs Man
April 23rd, 2012
3:47 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFP6VUGwmAg
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
3:47 pm
Jimmy
yes he used the labor unions
you are correct…………..
just like all politicians and parties use workers
i am just observing his absolute power once he did win………….
a great example is the democratic party has been championing the rise of the occupy wall street crowd and the evil of the 1%,,,,,,,,,,,, but after “work” and at night at the campaign fund raisers, Obama and his party are collecting $10k-$50k per plate dinners from that 1%
Whatever
April 23rd, 2012
3:49 pm
Jay,
I didn’t say no one can be moral. I said there is no authority for absolute morality. Two different things. If you and I disagree on what is moral then who is correct?
Fred ™
April 23rd, 2012
3:49 pm
The most brilliant folks, to a person , were all extremely humble people who always made no pretense about how little they (we) really knew. Then there was a second group, composed of people like our own Taxpayer, who crowed on with great certainty about how smart they were, always wanting to trump up how many degrees or awards they won.
LOL I’m married. I am told several times a day how stupid I am so I don;t have to worry about getting a big head. My concern is I wonder if I have enough brains to come in out of the rain………. or to even know that it really IS raining……..
jconservative
April 23rd, 2012
3:49 pm
“There are three words that can always perplex a Christian, “Prove it objectively.””
There are three words that can always perplex an atheist, “Prove it objectively.”
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
3:50 pm
an no i am not compairing the democratic party to the nazi party
just observing the irony of the use of different groups
just like the republicans use the right to life mantra but in conjunction with the belief in the death penalty……….
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
3:50 pm
“All leftism is founded on the belief that people are too stupid to manage their affairs, requiring the intervention of overlord/saviors to take care of them….”–Ragnar
This is proven over and over again on a daily basis by Jay’s Loyal cadre of barking seals.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
3:52 pm
“I didn’t say no one can be moral. I said there is no authority for absolute morality. Two different things. If you and I disagree on what is moral then who is correct?”
We are each correct for ourself.
Even if you claim the existence of an authority for absolute morality, how and through whom is that morality communicated? Do all Catholics think alike — all Baptists, all Hindus or Muslims? No. In the end, it is a personal decision because we all have free will.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
3:55 pm
jconservative
Atheist to believer: “You can’t describe God so He can’t exist.”
Believer to atheist: “Tell me what this stuff you call salt tastes like.”
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
3:56 pm
Rush Limbaugh (LOL!) told us today that Obama is waging a “War on Success”
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
3:57 pm
“There are three words that can always perplex an atheist, ‘Prove it objectively’.”
The atheist doesn’t have to prove the existence or non-existence of a God.
Without putting words into that blogger’s mouth, I believe he was saying that outside of someone’s “faith”, you can prove it objectively…….
Doesn’t mean that a God or Gods does not exists, but it isn’t on the atheist to objectively prove someone’s God is anything more than the manifestation of their “faith and belief” in that God
I noticed you didn’t take anytime to prove the blogger as being incorrect
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
3:58 pm
Ragnar, the nonsense-to-word ratio in that post approaches infinity.
I think ragnar makes a few good points there. Though you Lefties are loathe to admit it, Obama was elevated to rock star status by his followers and the media leading up to the 2008 election. Several posters here referenced being in downtown Atlanta following the election and described a scene of mass jubilation, with strangers hugging strangers.
As for the dangers of over-centralizing power, I think History has a lot to say about that………
GT
April 23rd, 2012
3:59 pm
Fred ™ why is brilliant what you want to hear? And what is good for the country? Plantations, picking cotton, cheap labor, is that where we want to go? That is brilliant too? For the plantation owner, is that where you come from looking at this? Hitler killing Jews, must of been someone who agreed with that too, though I’ll be damn if you can find them now. I bet someone called Hitler brilliant back in the 1940s. Not a Jewish person, probably a white guy, same one who calls Rush billiant today, and if you can redefine billiant, there are no limits where it can take you.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
4:00 pm
Rush Limbaugh spoke to USMC. I’m shocked!
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
4:00 pm
Reality is that no one knows
what reality is.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
4:00 pm
And Ragnar, if you argue that “everybody who seeks centralized power is liberal,” then yes, of course, only liberals seek centralized power. You’ve won the debate simply in how you define the terms. It’s like saying “all criminals are conservatives,” which of course would mean that only conservatives are criminal.
But as history clearly demonstrates, “everybody who seeks centralized power” is NOT liberal, which is why your post is, well, total nonsense.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
4:03 pm
Perhaps Bruno would be so kind as to provide us with one of his famous ratios of posts by myself touting my accomplishments versus his own. Just for kicks.
TP–When I came to this blog, I came with an open mind. And as my current blog “friendships” demonstrate, political affiliation has nothing to do with who I enjoy chatting with. If you can’t see how and why you come across as an arrogant jerk here, then obviously I can’t help you.
GT
April 23rd, 2012
4:04 pm
Blue laws are created by a centralized power.
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
4:06 pm
My fave of the day:
….the nonsense-to-word ratio in that post approaches infinity.
SO stealing that!
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
4:07 pm
Man
How quickly some on the right forget how the right leaning talk show host, writers and commentators as well as many who voted for him ( I know several personally ) who just praised and praised ole W……. at least for 6 yrs……..
Some still love him, but many started in 06 seeing what others had been seeing for 6 yrs
Yes all sides to do it and many people praise Obama beyond his accomplishments. With that said, many on the right need not think back to far to notices some of the praise they were heaping on Bush as if he were a what? ROCK STAR
Heck.. every single one of the Republican candidates want some of Reagan’s ROCK STAR status…. they trip over each other to show how Reagan they are
But have your fun and keep those blinders on
That stuff only goes on with the “left”…………………
hahahahahahhaa
I love the “open mindless” and “objectivity” of closed minds
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
4:07 pm
I see Bruno could not support his claim with a little science. You know. Data. Observation of an occurrence and tally of said occurences. Instead he resorts to his usual ploy of accusation of the baseless and unfounded and unwarranted variety. Good show, Bruno.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
4:08 pm
Bruno:
The short rebuttal to the claim about the left elevating leaders to godlike status, while the right does not, would consist of two words: Ronald Reagan.
As to the excitement caused by Obama’s election, it wasn’t because he was viewed as a messiah, as you suggest. It was because he was our first black president, which represented a coming of age for this country and a validation of what we tell ourselves this country is about. Even George W. Bush felt moved at the time to comment upon it, calling it “a triumph of the American story”.
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
4:09 pm
“Rush Limbaugh spoke to USMC. I’m shocked!”–Taxpayer
Yeah, He speaks to us every day when we listen ton him religiously.
He tells me what to think and I simply regurgitate it and act as though I know what I am talking about.
It makes life easy. LOL!
So, Taxpayer admits to not paying taxes, Ironic…
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
4:09 pm
We are each correct for ourself.
Point blank, Jay, do you think morality is:
(1) Absolute
(2) Relative
(3) Some combination thereof.
Personally, I think morality should be viewed in absolute terms, with some relativity built in. Your statement seems to suggest that morality can only be rightfully administered in some Relativistic way. The only problem with Moral Relativism, of course, is that ultimately it says nothing, and leaves everyone free to decide what’s “right” for them.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
4:11 pm
In other words, Bruno, you choose option 3.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
4:12 pm
Your statement that “morality should be viewed in absolute terms, with some relativity built in” is self-negating.
Absolute is absolute, or it isn’t absolute.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
4:14 pm
“Revise the Dream act ” is willard’s pandering position on immigration.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
4:16 pm
You’ve won the debate simply in how you define the terms. It’s like saying “all criminals are conservatives,” which of course would mean that only conservatives are criminal.
Hmmm–Kind of like your unsubstantiated claims that “most racists” are conservative??
The short rebuttal to the claim about the left elevating leaders to godlike status, while the right does not, would consist of two words: Ronald Reagan.
I never said that the Right doesn’t have its Deities either. In the case of Reagan, however, I don’t think the deification process began before he even took office. Are you still defending the Nobel Peace Prize awarded to Obama based on one month’s worth of accomplishments??
Whatever
April 23rd, 2012
4:18 pm
Jay,
If it is relative for each of us individually then there is no morality. The Norway shooter is correct when he says he was right in killing all those people if, as you say, “we are each correct for ourself.”
I can’t really believe you believe that.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
4:19 pm
So, Taxpayer admits to not paying taxes, Ironic…
Not quite, USMC. If you were to read more carefully, I extended a thank you to Republicans and Bush for giving a married couple, for example, the capability to “earn” over $85,000 in investment income without paying any fed or payroll taxes. As it turns out, Bush and the Republicans failed to give me my pension income free of fed taxes although I do not have any payroll taxes on that. Also, our small business gets stuck with both fed and payroll taxes. It’s just our investment income that gets the special Republican/Bush treatment. So if you Republicans do get a majority, I look forward to my pension ultimately becoming tax free as well as our small business income. I mean what good would a Republican majority be if it could not or would not deliver on that promise of tax cut after tax cut…
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
4:19 pm
meant to say “open minds”
Apologize……….. must have been a Freudian slip
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
4:20 pm
Your statement that “morality should be viewed in absolute terms, with some relativity built in” is self-negating.
Absolute is absolute, or it isn’t absolute.
I know that it’s a little hard to follow, but an embrace of complete Absolute Morality doesn’t work, as witnessed by all of the ridiculous Zero Tolerance policies enforced in our schools. There has to be at least a little wiggle room built in to account for common sense and rare exceptions. At the same time, Moral Relativism is an absolute disaster, since it leaves standards of conduct completely up to the individual. From polls I’ve seen, our youth have drifted far, far into the Moral Relativism abyss, in which even murder isn’t being condemned.
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
4:20 pm
“I don’t think the deification process began before he even took office.”
Is that supposed to be some sort of qualification thatsome how justifies what you did come back and say took place on the right as well as the left.?
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
4:21 pm
Prostitutegate grows to 24.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
4:21 pm
“Are you still defending the Nobel Peace Prize awarded to Obama based on one month’s worth of accomplishments??”
Bruno, I never defended it in the first place. As I wrote at the time:
“… it is still ridiculously premature, and I expect Obama knows that better than anyone. It’s like putting a rookie pitcher in the Hall of Fame after two great months in the bigs.
Considering the circumstances in which he took office, I wouldn’t quibble with much that Obama has done. But the only actual accomplishment of his first nine months — besides not being George Bush — was his success in pulling the global economy back from what appeared to be possible catastrophe. That was hardly his work alone; in fact, despite some early flailing, President Bush deserves a chunk of that credit as well, as do other world and economic leaders…”
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
4:22 pm
TaxPayer
Wow… you’re gonna be the Ultimate Job Creator! I mean, isn’t that what all you small business types do with those Republican tax cuts? Hire lots more people? Or give it all to the workers?
Those Republicans sure know how to balance a budget and get the economy moving, don’t they?
BTW, when are those 2002 tax cuts gonna get more people hired?
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
4:24 pm
In other words, Bruno, you’re comfortable with YOUR moral relativism, but not theirs.
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
4:25 pm
“Prostitutegate grows to 24.”–getalife
Let’s see, we have:
1) Fast N Furious
2) GSA Gate
3) Prostitution Gate
4) Obamacare gate ??
All under Obama’s watch… And that is just the FRAUD we are aware of.
saywhat?
April 23rd, 2012
4:26 pm
The headline is too generous to Goldberg. Is there anything he HASN”T gotten wrong?
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
4:26 pm
No, I don’t believe that, Whatever. I believe the core of morality is the Golden Rule: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
All else is commentary.
However, I don’t believe that we need a God to impose the Golden Rule on us. It is simple decency and common sense that produces a much better world for all of us.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
4:31 pm
Observation of an occurrence and tally of said occurences. Instead he resorts to his usual ploy of accusation of the baseless and unfounded and unwarranted variety. Good show, Bruno.
For starters, D-Wad, you have bragged about your income many, many times on this blog, your 4:19 being only the latest example. Your pronouncements about Science always come from on high, to which there can never be any discussion or disagreement. In case you have forgotten, you bragged to me about having multiple degrees from GT, yet you were unable to answer basic questions from Physics such as the Pauli Exclusion Principle.
Bottom line, TP, is that you don’t understand that conversation is meant to be a two-way street. Maybe you never developed any people skills along the way, but being an arrogant jerk doesn’t win any friends or influence any people.
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
4:32 pm
The Obama administration is now pivoting to jobs, jobs, jobs!
Starting with shovel ready Jobs
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
4:32 pm
Wow… you’re gonna be the Ultimate Job Creator! I mean, isn’t that what all you small business types do with those Republican tax cuts? Hire lots more people? Or give it all to the workers?
Well that’s how those tax cuts are being sold. And we are trying to give all the extra income from the small business to the workers, my wife and I. The extra income from investments just gets rolled back into more investments so we can have more. It’s the Republican way and if it ultimately turns out that we cannot beat them then we’ll join them at their own game and let the minions paying payroll taxes and such support us all. It’s called living the American Dream, I think. Or something like that.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
4:32 pm
“I don’t believe that we need a God to impose the Golden Rule on us. It is simple decency and common sense that produces a much better world for all of us.”
Which is why Republicans hate government regulations, for they know, left to themselves Americans, from individuals clearing trash from their lots to corporations making a buck, will all gravitate towards using the Golden Rule as a firm guide in all that they do -
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
4:35 pm
TaxPayer
The Minions of America thank you, knowing their support of you is worth it.
And you never once used the work ‘betters.”
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
4:37 pm
D-Wad
That’s the extent of your “data”, eh, Bruno. I think your posts to me say it all much better than I ever could.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
4:38 pm
Considering the circumstances in which he took office, I wouldn’t quibble with much that Obama has done. But the only actual accomplishment of his first nine months — besides not being George Bush — was his success in pulling the global economy back from what appeared to be possible catastrophe.
If my memory serves me correctly, Jay, the application for being considered for the Nobel Prize came many, many months earlier, like in Feb or March after Obama was elected. Now I’m sure he’ll claim that he was nominated without his knowledge or permission, but that’s a little hard to believe.
It was because he was our first black president, which represented a coming of age for this country and a validation of what we tell ourselves this country is about.
For those of us who don’t consider the color of one’s skin to be an “accomplishment”, I didn’t see it as any big deal at all, other than for shutting up some of the Lib Racists in this country who still hold condescending, paternalistic views of Blacks based on some perceived inferiority.
Whatever
April 23rd, 2012
4:38 pm
Jay,
You are proving my point. You think you are right, the Norway shooter thinks he is right. Who is right and by whose authority are they right?
Who has the right to tell me the “Golden Rule” is right?
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
4:41 pm
The society in which we live sets those rules, Whatever. That has been the case from the earliest days of human existence, when we abided by the rules of the clan or tribe.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
4:42 pm
Which is why Republicans hate government regulations, for they know, left to themselves Americans, from individuals clearing trash from their lots to corporations making a buck, will all gravitate towards using the Golden Rule as a firm guide in all that they do -
Were you able to keep a straight face while tying that? Inquiring minds, doncha know.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
4:42 pm
Whatever
“Who has the right to tell me the “Golden Rule” is right?”
Obviously not the Norway shooter, after he killed your wife and kids -
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
4:42 pm
Oops. That’s typing. Not tying. Purely non-freudian slip.
pogo
April 23rd, 2012
4:43 pm
“Liberal Fascism” simply points out the similarities that you liberals have as pertaining to Stalins and Hitlers methods and in some very important ways their ideology. Afterall, you were enamoured with both Stalin and Hitler at one time. It was only when it became apparent that genocide was happening under they tyranny that you washed you hands of them. Probably because murders of millions of Jews, Poles and Soviets was just bad for the progressive cause. Goldberg is not weak on his facts as Granny Lizard said here today. His book just makes liberals very, very uncomfortable because it makes them look at their history.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
4:43 pm
TaxPayer
I’m rarely able to keep a straight face on this blog -
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
4:45 pm
“For those of us who don’t consider the color of one’s skin to be an “accomplishment”, I didn’t see it as any big deal at all, other than for shutting up some of the Lib Racists in this country who still hold condescending, paternalistic views of Blacks based on some perceived inferiority.”
Would it just be “libs”? ………. many on the right made a huge deal out of several of Bush’s cabinet appointments and in many cases they were not just trumpeting their education, skill sets and past work history
I’m not saying those he appointed were not qualified by any means, but there was much brouhaha about who they were…….
Come one Bruno…………
It isn’t just a “lib” thing……… unless you want it to be in your own mind
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
4:46 pm
In other words, Bruno, you’re comfortable with YOUR moral relativism, but not theirs.
Not sure how you came up with that, Jay, but that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that morality has to begin with Absolute statements, such as “killing is wrong” or “torture is wrong”. Within those Absolutes, however, there has to be some room for “sentencing guidelines”, otherwise you end up with a greater injustice. Stealing a loaf of bread is “wrong”, but it doesn’t deserve having your hand cut off in response as they still do in the Middle East.
On the other hand, simply saying that we all have to develop our “own” code of ethics is a one-way trip to the Dumpster. Is that what you’re arguing for??
No, I don’t believe that, Whatever. I believe the core of morality is the Golden Rule: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
No problem with that statement, Jay. If you have followed any of my discussions about Godel’s Incompleteness Theorem, that is his message too. Since no system of “rules” can ever be Complete or even Consistent, then we ultimately have to appeal to the “Spirit of the Law” in rendering justice.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
4:47 pm
They will put ads on fire trucks to make money.
Sad.
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
4:48 pm
“you were enamoured with both Stalin and Hitler at one time”
Who is “you”?
Pogo you are like many others on here…….probably hate to be stereotyped but are one of the worst offenders
Is it that you can not think beyond stereotypes and talking points, does it make you feel better as a person or maybe just your blogging persona?
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
4:48 pm
“If you and I disagree on what is moral then who is correct?””
How do you define immoral? I define it as “seeing innocence as something to be exploited” The greater the innocence, and the greater the advantage taken…the greater the immorality.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
4:52 pm
Morality in American politics is a myth.
It is all for the greed of a few Americans.
JamVet
April 23rd, 2012
4:52 pm
So here I am in email hell (Not to be confused with Dell Hell) and you folks are talking about the great questions of our species.
You wanna know what I believe in? Pretty much the same as this guy…
I believe in the soul. The c*ck, the p*ssy, the small of a woman’s back, the hanging curveball, high-fiver, good Scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap, I believe that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, I believe there oughta be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve, and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days. ~Crash Davis
saywhat?
April 23rd, 2012
4:53 pm
pogo @4:43. Goldberg is a moron. His theory of liberal fascism developed entirely from the “discovery” that the word “socialist” is in the acronym NAZI (the “z”). He took that and ran with it. Its as deep as Doughy Pantload gets. He has been and continues to be an integral part in the dumbing down of conservatism.
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
4:54 pm
“He has been and continues to be an integral part in the dumbing down of conservatism.”
Well we know at least one where he hit it out of the park with his intentions
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
4:55 pm
Once in a while, a cartoon comes around that absolutely hits the nail on the head.
http://uspolitics.tribe.net/photos/f86bcbf2-a92a-4d4b-99d9-4e08dc6c56d0
Joe Hussein Mama
April 23rd, 2012
4:56 pm
jconservative — “There are three words that can always perplex an atheist, “Prove it objectively.”
Are you speaking for us, or as one of us?
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
4:59 pm
JamVet,
No wonder your computer crashed. Sensory overload.
ragnar danneskjold
April 23rd, 2012
5:01 pm
Dear Jay @ 4:00, my contempt is not for “liberal” – which means “free from the constraints of the overlord,” and which is a term misappropriated by leftists five decades ago when their original “socialist” and “progressive” terms had become anathema to the thinking independents – but for leftism itself. Leftism is founded on central control of the rabble – there is no alternative foundation for leftists. Whether you follow Rawls or Hobbes, your theory of government is to constrain the freedom of the individual and to maximize the control of elected authorities. You certainly do not effectively differentiate Nazism from Communism merely by asserting that Nazis are conservatives, especially as both governance style and the effects of the governance are so similar.
Similarly, even though you are horrified that I would even notice the similarity, Mussolini controlled private businesses with regulation. Conservatives are not the entities expanding regulations exponentially in the modern world. Unless you can give me the current Democrat Party’s basis for centralized authority not founded on an elitist contempt for the decisions of the common man, I cannot credit your essay for any thought. If it looks like a duck…..
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:02 pm
The rule that really works best in determining the question of right and wrong is the democratic model. Vote of the majority after an open discussion. Anything else is second best.
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
5:02 pm
And this clown is next in line to be President of The U.S. LOL!
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/biden-calls-everglades-ever-gators/496746
272 more days
April 23rd, 2012
5:03 pm
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
What else would you expect from a GT man (?)
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
5:04 pm
Afterall, you were enamoured with both Stalin and Hitler at one time.
Nice try, Pogo, but no.
The left’s mistake was Stalin, no doubt there. But it was elements of the American right, like some of the British right, that at one point were enamoured with Hitler.
Charles Lindbergh and the America First movement were Hitler sympathizers, apologists and advocates of appeasement, as was Joe Kennedy. (Neville Chamberlain, the symbol of appeasement, was a Conservative.) You still get occasional right-wing apologists such as Pat Buchanan who will try to downplay Hitler’s evil. And it is the far far right, not the far far left, that has embraced Nazi symbols.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
5:05 pm
Would it just be “libs”? ………. many on the right made a huge deal out of several of Bush’s cabinet appointments and in many cases they were not just trumpeting their education, skill sets and past work history
TBS–Can’t answer for others, of course, but I believe the “huge deal” made about the ethnic makeup of Bush’s Cabinet was in response to the constant drumbeat from the Left that Conservatives = Racists. Jay still hasn’t backed off from that meme. One day, maybe he’ll see that racism comes in different flavors. Creating special laws to favor or disfavor certain races is, by definition, racist. But, because it’s all wrapped up in some kind of benevolent paternalism, Libs can’t see their own brand of racism.
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
5:06 pm
I nominate Raghead’s 5:01 for the Dr. Erwin Corey award for nonsensical blather.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:06 pm
ragnar danneskjold
April 23rd, 2012
5:01 pm
__________
The definition of a conservative is one who believes in a totatlaterian government with no individual right, just total control by the head of state who is in absolute control of the military. that is a conservative mind state.
Joe Hussein Mama
April 23rd, 2012
5:06 pm
JamVet — ” . . . hanging curveball, high-fiver, good Scotch . . .”
He’s saying “high fiber,” actually.
Mary Elizabeth
April 23rd, 2012
5:06 pm
I was pleased with the election of President Obama not because he was the first black president, although that would have been sufficient enough to be pleased. He captured my imagination because of his vision. I suspect it was Obama’s vision that, also, captured the imagination of the Nobel Peace Prize Committee when they awarded him the Nobel Peace Prize.
In the current issue of Newsweek (4/ 23 & 30/12), Robert Caro, author of several volumes of LBJ’s life, contends that LBJ was a better president than JFK because LBJ was able to get Congress to pass legislation that Kennedy had only expressed the hope of seeing passed – specifically, Civil Rights legislation.
So, was LBJ a better president than JFK? I think that that possiblity is more to be doubted than Robert Caro admits. JFK captured the hearts and minds, or the imaginations, of Americans. LBJ sealed the deal. However, the ability to capture the imaginations of others is no easy accomplishment. To many, Barack Obama has that same gift that Kennedy had – the ability to inspire others and to forge his vision into the nation’s collective consciousness. Perhaps, Obama is setting the stage for a changed America, and a changed world, in this century. Perhaps, the Nobel Peace Prize Committee saw that dynamic force within him – already in movement – beyond the deeds that would fall, thereafter, as a result of the change in consciousness, precipitated by him.
ragnar danneskjold
April 23rd, 2012
5:07 pm
Dear Jay @ various times, the strongest argument you can make for a right wing dictatorship would be one that imposed free-market capitalism by fiat. The closest argument you could find there would be the experience of Chile beginning with the violent overthrow of Salvador Allende, a true Marxist. The shambles of the 1970 Chilean economy is markedly different from the South American tiger we see today. In contrast, Argentina was the sixth wealthiest nation in the world before Peron.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
5:08 pm
Ragnar at 5:01,
B
O
O
M
!
ragnar danneskjold
April 23rd, 2012
5:10 pm
Thinking it over, perhaps Singapore would also qualify as a right wing dictatorship – currently ranked as the second freest economy in the world, behind only Hong Kong.
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
5:11 pm
Bruno
Thanks for the response…. Just wanted to be clear that it doesn’t just come in a “lib” flavor and no need to qualify and justify a portion of right’s behavior as it is some sort of justification for doing the same as the left
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
5:16 pm
“I was pleased with the election of President Obama not because he was the first black president, although that would have been sufficient enough to be pleased. He captured my imagination because of his vision. I suspect it was Obama’s vision that, also, captured the imagination of the Nobel Peace Prize Committee when they awarded him the Nobel Peace Prize.”–Mary Elizabeth
Obama’s VISION??? What exactly is Obama’s vision?
Unbelievable! You just can’t make this stuff up. LOL!
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
5:16 pm
To many, Barack Obama has that same gift that Kennedy had – the ability to inspire others and to forge his vision into the nation’s collective consciousness.
ME–If you are enamored with Obama’s “vision”, I guess that is a personal judgment call. However, as the Newsweek article mentions, at some point “vision” needs to be translated into tangible policies. In other words, “Faith without works is dead”. Can you point to any specific legislation which you feel is a manifestation of Obama’s great “vision”?? And please don’t hold up the ACA (ObamaCare) as some great accomplishment simply because it takes the form of “universal Coverage”. There are a lot better ways of achieving that.
BTW, I agreed with your earlier post today about Southerners moving past the Civil War.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
5:18 pm
Thanks for the response…. Just wanted to be clear that it doesn’t just come in a “lib” flavor and no need to qualify and justify a portion of right’s behavior as it is some sort of justification for doing the same as the left
Jay tried to nail with the same accusation, but I don’t see where any of my posts today single out Libs.
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
5:20 pm
Hope & Change!
(Hope means you have no plan!)
ragnar danneskjold
April 23rd, 2012
5:21 pm
Dear Thulsa, @ 5:08. thanks.
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
5:22 pm
The Fall of the DemocRats’ favorite son…
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/23/edwards-arrives-at-court-for-trial-examining-money-trail-behind-affair/?test=latestnews
Mary Elizabeth
April 23rd, 2012
5:22 pm
And, Obama’s vision is an egalitarian vision, the same vision that Jefferson’s mind encompased. That vision is the antithesis of Hitler’s vision of hierarchy, based on power of some over others, which is the vision of any autocratic ruler, or of any authoritarian government, whatever the label.
Robert Hagedorn
April 23rd, 2012
5:23 pm
Google First Scandal.
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
5:23 pm
“Leftism is founded on central control of the rabble – there is no alternative foundation for leftists. Whether you follow Rawls or Hobbes, your theory of government is to constrain the freedom of the individual and to maximize the control of elected authorities.’
Raghead: I would like for you to — right here and now — produce anything that supports this assertion of yours. Not only that, but just whose theory of government are you talking about?
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
5:24 pm
How completely disingenuous.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
5:25 pm
Similarly, even though you are horrified that I would even notice the similarity, Mussolini controlled private businesses with regulation.
I find it absolutely hilarious that you believe I’m horrified by that. Pssst … I’ll let you in on a secret, Ragnar — EVERY government that ever existed controlled private businesses with regulation.
Kings and village chieftains regulated business with regulation. Under the Old Testament, collecting interest on loans was forbidden — government regulation! No working on the Sabbath — government regulation!! All debts had to settled within seven years or they were abolished — more regulation!! (Those Israelites sure could have used an Ayn Rand to set ‘em straight, right Rags?)
Even more laughable is your claim that “Conservatives are not the entities expanding regulations exponentially in the modern world.” GW Bush created and imposed regulations at a higher rate than Obama has done. As Bloomberg reported:
President Barack Obama’s “tsunami” of new government regulations looks more like a summer swell.
Obama’s White House has approved fewer regulations than his predecessor George W. Bush at this same point in their tenures, and the estimated costs of those rules haven’t reached the annual peak set in fiscal 1992 under Bush’s father, according to government data reviewed by Bloomberg News.”
Under your tactic, of course, Bush and his father are no longer conservative, they are liberal, which allows you to continue to claim that only liberals regulate the economy. It’s really a transparently stupid and sordid game that you’re trying to play.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:25 pm
April 23rd, 2012
5:23 pm
______
It’s a theory most likely conjured up in a dream in an opium den.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
5:25 pm
Chile and Argentina, Oh noes. Someone hitting the libs with facts again. One thing you left out though Ragnar was the Argentine default which occurred due to out of control spending and mismanagement by leftists.
How to ruin a country?- see leftists in Argentina, Greece, and elsewhere.
Recon 0311 2533
April 23rd, 2012
5:26 pm
“Obama’s VISION??? What exactly is Obama’s vision?”
DIVISION
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
5:26 pm
John Edwards was no more the Democrat’s favorite son than Gnute the Nutcase was the Republican’s favorite son.
So, he focked up. It won’t be the first time and it won’t be the last. At least he’s not a compleat imbecile like the last Republican president.
carlosgvv
April 23rd, 2012
5:27 pm
Bruno
Our entire modern society is built on scientific certainty. Our transportation, our home and business heating, cooling and lighting, our modern medicines and and our knowledge of nuclear physics, both for peace and war. To say we have no scientific certainty only shows your ignorance of science.
As for the Big Bang theory, it has been the standard model for many years and has withstood every test. It is as certain as Evolution.
It’s clear science has never been taught to you in a proper manner.
dbm
April 23rd, 2012
5:27 pm
The terms “left” and “right” as used in politics are very ambiguous and can be very misleading. People who think in terms of them are in grave danger of confusing themselves.
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
5:28 pm
“And, Obama’s vision is an egalitarian vision, the same vision that Jefferson’s mind encompased….”–Mary Elizabeth
Egalitarian? Sort of like Obama’s/DemocRats’ Identity Politics and Affirmative Action where we judge and treat people DIFFERENTLY based on the color of one’s skin and gender/sexual orientation.
By the way Mary Elizabeth, are you currently working on a Masters Degree or PHd?? Just curious.
carlosgvv
April 23rd, 2012
5:29 pm
Paul – 3:18
Yes, all the Nobel prize-winning physicists and mathematicians believe in the basic model of The Big Bang, just as they all believe in evolution.
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
5:29 pm
Well except for calling it “lib racism”……….. Guess I don’t see it either
A racist a racist…… I don’t care if he has a D or R besides his name.. whether they are “lib” or “conservative” or none of the above………….. they are just a racist to me
I used the word “flavor” because in the past you have used that “lib” terminology before……….. To me there really are no “flavors”…… If you think your race is superior to another.. you are what you are…. at least in my book
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:30 pm
dbm
April 23rd, 2012
5:27 pm
The terms “left” and “right” as used in politics are very ambiguous and can be very misleading. People who think in terms of them are in grave danger of confusing themselves.
____
Let me nake it simple for you.
Liberals want a democracy with rights enjoyed by everyone;
Conservatives want rule be a few with rights only enjoyed by the select group in control.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
5:30 pm
“President Barack Obama’s “tsunami” of new government regulations looks more like a summer swell.”
Soooooo in one fell swoop Obamacare introduces increased regulation over 17% of U.S. GDP and yet we still have folks like Jay saying there really isn’t much regulation under Obama. Are you punking us Jay or are you actually serious?
M
April 23rd, 2012
5:31 pm
This thread was way more fun when we were debating about the existence of God…as opposed to the impossible task of discovering whether “cons” or “libs” are best.
dbm
April 23rd, 2012
5:31 pm
A religion is a system in which fundamental ideas are accepted arbitrarily on faith, rather than being based on the evidence of the senses as identified and integrated by one’s faculty of reason. Perhaps we could get an argument going about whether Naziism and Communism satisy this definition.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
5:31 pm
I hear Bruno is a damn yankee.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:33 pm
dbm
April 23rd, 2012
5:31 pm
_________
Neither one does.
A religiion is based on a belief in God. Communists were athiests and Nazis were obedient to the state. Neither focused on God.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
5:33 pm
And I’m not sure that you and Thulsa have thought through your celebration of Chile as a positive example. You know, the case in which the Pinochet right-wing military dictatorship overthrew an elected government by force, executed thousands of people, seized their victims’ babies to raise as their own, threw tens of thousands into internment camps and tortured tens of thousands more.
Which of course makes General Pinochet a liberal, I presume?
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
5:33 pm
Meanwhile back at the ranch…
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Good news, though. The Obama administration is now pivoting to jobs, jobs, jobs… LOL!
M
April 23rd, 2012
5:34 pm
Gott mit uns.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:35 pm
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
5:31 pm
I hear Bruno is a damn yankee.
_____
He even admits it. Seems proud of it also.
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
5:35 pm
Sooth
Don’t you just love how Rags defines everything for you and all of us other bloggers
If it meets his myopic view of things than it is defined in a positive light……. if it doesn’t than it is defined in a negative light
Must be sad to live that sort of existence to actually think you are somehow morally and politically correct on everything….. maybe it is just his blogging persona
Bet he is real exciting at Happy Hour………reality it probably turns into sad hour before the 1st drinks are ordered
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
5:36 pm
M,
Nein, glaube ich. Dass geht nicht. Gott is im “Himmel.” Er hört uns nicht.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:37 pm
M
April 23rd, 2012
5:34 pm
Gott mit uns.
_____
That was on the belt buckle of every Nazi man in uniform.
And our fair State of Georgia and Iran are the only two states or countries that have the word God on their flag.
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
5:37 pm
“Ah, the old “no atheist can be moral” canard. In other words, no one can have a personal code of honesty and ethical dealings; it must be imposed on us by an outside force.”
I don’t believe you understand the point underlying the post to which you responded. Atheists can obviously have a moral code, but it is never absolute or authoritative. Why is anything “good” or “evil” as opposed to something else? Because a person or group says so? Since, in a godless universe, everything is inconsequential in the end, I don’t see how it logically matters whether you help an old lady across the street or axe-murder her.
USMC
April 23rd, 2012
5:38 pm
“Which of course makes General Pinochet a liberal, I presume?”
Nice how Jay dances lightly around Comrade Stalin who killed 20-30 MILLION people, but Pinochet, now he is right up there… Oh wait!
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
5:38 pm
What we really need in this country is a new state called “Libertariania.”
In this state, there would be no income taxes, no welfare, no government, no Social Security, no Medicare, no Medicaid, no laws. A true experiment in Social Darwinism. If you lost your job, you simply had to move to another state.
Of course, the infrastructure of Libertariania would soon start to deteriorate. And, there would be some lawlessness as the “stronger” Libertarians sought to take away the land of the “weaker” Libertarians — which would be perfectly legal since there aren’t any laws to begin with.
Those hapless individuals on the lower rungs of the socio-economic ladder would have to accept their new positions as serfs on the feudal lord’s estates.
Yes, it’s the Shangri-La the Fright-Wing on this blog have been looking for. I think it’s long overdue. I say we establish Libertariania tomorrow.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
5:39 pm
carlosgvv
“Yes, all the Nobel prize-winning physicists and mathematicians believe in the basic model of The Big Bang, just as they all believe in evolution.”
That wasn’t in question.
carlosgvv
April 23rd, 2012
5:39 pm
Jay – the appalling lack of scientific knowledge shown by so many here only lends credence to my theory that a great many of your regular bloggers are middle and high school Christian Academy students.
With this kind of blogging clientele, I’m afraid you’re chances of ever being a panelist on Face The Nation, This Week or The Chris Matthews Show, aren’t looking too good.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
5:39 pm
Soooooo in one fell swoop Obamacare introduces increased regulation over 17% of U.S. GDP and yet we still have folks like Jay saying there really isn’t much regulation under Obama. Are you punking us Jay or are you actually serious?
Right, Thulsa. Because prior to Obama, the health care industry wasn’t much regulated, right?
Who was it who forced hospitals to treat everybody in emergency rooms? Why, it was Ronald Reagan. Who pushed through the Medicare Part D plan? Why, it was George W. Bush. Who created and pushed the idea for a health-care mandate in the first place? Conservatives!
You guys are ridiculous.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
5:40 pm
Oscar,
I was originally a NY yankee also up to the age of 5. Then I was a Spaniard for a few years and then an Alabama cracker for 15 years and then a Georgia man for the past 20. I got a little bit of both yankee and southerner and I see the positive and negative attributes of both northerner and southerner.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:40 pm
Enter your comments hereTowncrier
April 23rd, 2012
5:37 pm
______
From a logical point of view it does not matter. But man does not live by logic alone. Even without god, there are human emotions, reasonings and feelings that control our behavior and establish right from wrong.
M
April 23rd, 2012
5:40 pm
Towncrier,
So the only thing keeping you from axe-murdering an old lady is because there’s a rule against it?
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
5:41 pm
Recon @ 5:26 and USMC @ 5:28–Good posts.
The only “egalitarianism” I see in Obama’s playbook is the same kind evidenced in Socialistic/Communistic countries, in which everyone is “equal” except for the leaders and their pals. I think it’s nothing short of disgusting that lavish trips that Obama has treated himself to at taxpayer’s expense.
Whatever
April 23rd, 2012
5:41 pm
Jay,
So if society sets the rules and society decides that murder is right are you good with that? They set the rules, right?
Joe Hussein Mama
April 23rd, 2012
5:41 pm
Oscar — “Communists were athiests”
Not *this* again.
*sigh*
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
5:43 pm
Jay,
What does Pinochet have to do with Chile post- Pinochet. Its been a very vibrant economy versus left wingers in Argentina who have repeatedly driven what once was a powerful country into the ground. And btw Pinochet was a dictator and one who killed a few thousand people and committed various other human rights violations. Same with the dirty war in Argentina under the right wing military junta. So what. Do you want to get into a body bag count about who has killed more people in the world between right wing dictators like Pinochet and left wing dictators like Stalin. Do you really want to go there? Do ya?
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
5:43 pm
USMC, read the piece above and tell me how I danced around the Stalin question. Read my previous posts here, where I again acknowledge that too many leftists apologized for his excesses for far too long. You’re proving Carlos right.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:44 pm
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
5:40 pm
_____
I have lived in Georgia all my life and have no trouble seeing the negatives of southerners and the sourth. Just don’t like to have to admit the negatives to northerners, or have them pointed out to me by them.
I can also see the positives of northernerers. I believe I saw a positive in one once, not sure I can remember exactly when, memory is hazy, fades into the fog.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
5:45 pm
Jay,
Yep. There has always been regulation, even under the Rs. Just saying its getting even worse under O. And that doesn’t excuse W from his own regulatory heavy hand. Or Clinton. But nice try in deflecting to bring up W again. It seems to be the lib staple. When confronted blame W.
carlosgvv
April 23rd, 2012
5:45 pm
Paul – “do all Nobel Prize winning Ph.D mathematicians and physicists agree with each other on this topic”
If not the Big Bang, then exactly what topic did you have in mind?
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:45 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
April 23rd, 2012
5:41 pm
____
Did you meet one that was not. What was his name.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
5:45 pm
No Thulsa.
All I wanted from the beginning was an acknowledgement that there is a totalitarianism on the right just as there is a totalitarianism on the left.
And you have now, finally, and perhaps accidentally, acknowledged as much.
in other words
April 23rd, 2012
5:46 pm
“You guys are ridiculous.”
Pats by 3.
Try again, Maddow.
Joe Hussein Mama
April 23rd, 2012
5:47 pm
Towncrier — “Atheists can obviously have a moral code, but it is never absolute or authoritative. Why is anything “good” or “evil” as opposed to something else? Because a person or group says so?”
Shrug. So some things are “good” or “evil” because a heavily edited and altered book says so? If the bible were as absolute and as authoritative as claimed, then why don’t christians insist on having it read only in its original linguistic form, in order to prevent ambiguity and misreadings from creeping in? As an atheist, I don’t find christianity to be any more or less mythological than islam, but at least muslim clerics insist on the laity reading the koran in the original Arabic for just that reason.
“Since, in a godless universe, everything is inconsequential in the end, I don’t see how it logically matters whether you help an old lady across the street or axe-murder her.”
I’d love to explain it to you, but I’m afraid I’ve got to bail on the thread this evening.
However, if you’re serious about that question and not merely posting a general slam on atheists and atheism in general, I’d be happy to explain why it matters at a later date.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
5:48 pm
Pats by 3.
Wow. You pick one football game wrong and your credibility as a pundit collapses.
On the other hand, if the biggest ammo you’ve got is that I once picked a football game wrong …. :>)
Moderate Line
April 23rd, 2012
5:48 pm
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
4:26 pm
No, I don’t believe that, Whatever. I believe the core of morality is the Golden Rule: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
All else is commentary.
However, I don’t believe that we need a God to impose the Golden Rule on us. It is simple decency and common sense that produces a much better world for all of us.
+++++
The Golden Rule is part of many religions and philosophies. Many of which down play God or Gods or do not mention them at all. For example Confucianism and Buddhism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
5:48 pm
“So the only thing keeping you from axe-murdering an old lady is because there’s a rule against it?”
Have you ever read Conrad’s Heart of Darkness or Golding’s Lord of the Flies? Both explore this idea. Dostoevsky also explores similar themes. But, in answer to your question, no – there is also fear, an inbred sense of wrong, an emotional revulsion to the act and so on. But these are not logical things.
Joe Hussein Mama
April 23rd, 2012
5:49 pm
Doom — “Do you want to get into a body bag count about who has killed more people in the world between right wing dictators like Pinochet and left wing dictators like Stalin. Do you really want to go there? Do ya?”
If we’re going to talk about killings in the name of god versus killings in the name of atheism, sure, I’m up for that.
Joe Hussein Mama
April 23rd, 2012
5:50 pm
Oscar — “Did you meet one that was not. What was his name.”
Her name.
Communism does not = atheism
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:50 pm
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
5:48 pm
_______
Crime and Punishment by Dostoevsky explores it very well. And makes the case against ax murderers.
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
5:50 pm
Oscar,
This morning I pointed out that just because a southerner is “messing with” you, does not mean he or she does not like you, but rather, we do that to see if people can take a joke & not take themselves too seriously before letting them in our inner circle. (I did not contrast inner circle with the general friendliness and hospitality we generally show everyone, because I didn’t realize I needed to.) I was immediately set upon and berated for being an arrogant, bizzatch by some who, in reality, know darn well I wasn’t insulting anyone but explaining our weirdness to those who might misinterpret.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
5:51 pm
Thulsa that is just so sad.
You guys are bringing up Peron and Allende and Argentina and Chile from 40 years ago, but it’s somehow out of bounds for me to cite an American president who left office less than four years ago? That’s real logical there….
(Giggle.)
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:51 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
April 23rd, 2012
5:50 pm
_____
You missed the whole point, as usual. The point was communism is not a religion becuase it does not focus on god. Go back and read the comments. Oh, wait. Never mind.
Joe Hussein Mama
April 23rd, 2012
5:52 pm
I’d really love to continue this discussion and I hate to leave, but I’d rather disappoint you fine folks than disappoint my wife.
Of course, being an atheist, I have to deal with the consequences of my actions, just as any theist would, and so moral and ethical absolutes don’t enter into my decision to depart.
All be well and drive safely.
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
5:52 pm
Thulsa
While it might not have been your “play book”, for 8 yrs many on the right cried about Clinton when Bush was in office, the Hannity’s and Boortz’s of the world still do……
While I acknowledge that it comes across as BS, depending on the issue being discussed…. it trips me out that you can’t stand W being brought up when many on the right still cry about Clinton 11.5 yrs after he left office
It’s like the pot calling the kettle black……. both ways
If you NEVER brought up Clinton since he left office than I applaud you because there are not many on either side that will not do that
Joe Hussein Mama
April 23rd, 2012
5:53 pm
Oscar — “You missed the whole point, as usual.”
I’m not the one asking for names, Oscar.
Do have a pleasant evening.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:54 pm
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
5:50 pm
_____
Some of them are just hopeless.
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
5:54 pm
Little old Lady got mutilated late last night!
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:55 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
April 23rd, 2012
5:52 pm
____
I didn’t realize you thought I was insulting atheists. That was not my intent.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:56 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
April 23rd, 2012
5:53 pm
__
You missed that point also.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
5:56 pm
Too bad I missed this one from the get-go, but it’s pretty clear from previous exchanges who said what since in this discussion it’s pretty much usually a tent revival from both “sides.”
IMAM
An interesting read from you. You summation of Hitches pretty much matches mine. I found him highly unoriginal, intellectually dishonest, and mean spirited. Something of a Newt Gingrich, a bit too taken with himself.
The point that the atheistic regimes have proven every bit as murderous as the religious ones does tend to oiss off the fundamentalist atheists-non believers, but it’s the truth, nonetheless.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
5:59 pm
What form of government are the Tea Party types yearning for with their calls for reduced regulations and lower taxes and patriotism and God in the classroom and keeping you hands of their Medicare…
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
6:00 pm
“The point that the atheistic regimes have proven every bit as murderous as the religious ones does tend to oiss off the fundamentalist atheists-non believers, but it’s the truth, nonetheless.”
Could the same not be said for some of the “believers” and religious leaders or leaders who have used religion?
M
April 23rd, 2012
6:00 pm
I really don’t think, josef, that if you added up all the murders for religion vs. murders for atheism that it would be even close. Religion had a HUGE head start…and Stalin wasn’t murdering in the name of atheism. Plenty have been murdered in the name of Christianity, in the name of Islam, in the name of Judaism, in the name of Baal, in the name of…
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:00 pm
matti
The problem with a certain class of Yankees is that they are outraged to have to deal with the same prejudices, misconceptions, stereotypes, etc, thrown right back at them and then they don’t quite get the inside joke that’s coming with it and that makes them even madder!
Then, there’s the Yankee I do love…the one that has paid close enough attention and come with an open enough mind to be let in what you call “the inner circle.”
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
6:00 pm
Some more major BS from carlos:
Our entire modern society is built on scientific certainty. Our transportation, our home and business heating, cooling and lighting, our modern medicines and and our knowledge of nuclear physics, both for peace and war. To say we have no scientific certainty only shows your ignorance of science.
For starters, carlos, you are confusing “technology” with “scientific understanding”. There’s a world of difference. Do you understand that difference?? By its very nature, Science can never be “certain”, as my numerous quotes from Richard Feynman show.
As for the Big Bang theory, it has been the standard model for many years and has withstood every test. It is as certain as Evolution.
Certainly it is now the “standard model”, as is Evolution, which in the end means nothing. Some day, more comprehensive theories will come along which will make the current theories special cases of a more general rule, if we trust that History will repeat itself. You claim that the Big Bang Theory has withstood every “test’, yet there are no tests in existence which could possibly “prove” it to begin with. It exists only on paper and in computer models. The conditions by which the Universe began are unknown. No one can possibly explain where the ball of amorphous material which supposedly “expanded” to form our current Universe came from. The entire theory rests upon the fact that we believe our Universe is “expanding”, such that we can extrapolate backwards to a time when all matter was gathered together in one big lump. But, with no other “proof” than the existence of “background radiation”, it can never be reconstructed and retested.
It’s clear science has never been taught to you in a proper manner.
I would say the same about you, so we’ll have to leave it to the blog crowd here today to decide who presented a more compelling case. If it’s okay, I’m going to call on Richard Feynman one more time to back up my POV. If you think you know more about Science than Richard, then be my guest to contradict him about the nature of Science:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkhBcLk_8f0
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
6:01 pm
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
5:59 pm
______
A state of confusion and self contradiction.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:02 pm
M
No argument on the head start concept, but, boy, howdy they sure have made up for lost time!
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
6:03 pm
Then, there’s the Yankee I do love…the one that has paid close enough attention and come with an open enough mind to be let in what you call “the inner circle.”
josef–As I told Matti earlier today, F the “inner circle”. For being an otherwise nice guy, you sure seem to spend a lot of time defending boorish behavior.
M
April 23rd, 2012
6:04 pm
God himself, if you believe his storybook, waited about three pages between “Thou shalt not kill” and “Go wipe out that tribe over there because they’re different.”
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
6:06 pm
Y’all got deep today cons.
Anyhoo, President Obama by 10.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:07 pm
M
First off, H- didn’t say thou shalt not kill. Mo wrote it as thou shalt not murder.
BRUNO
Boorish? I daresay that NOT saying what I really think in the greater society is not boorish but manners. You haven’t heard the half of what I say intra nostra, and there I’m actually considered wishy washy…
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
6:09 pm
willard agrees with our President on low interest on student loans.
willard running to the left out of radical rw extremists territory.
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
6:09 pm
“the problem with a certain class of Yankees is that they are outraged to have to deal with the same prejudices, misconceptions, stereotypes, etc, thrown right back at them and then they don’t quite get the inside joke that’s coming with it and that makes them even madder!”
If we are playing the North / South, region or whatever you call it…… could the same be said for a percentage of people no matter what “designation” you pick?
I’ve known many a “southerner” who get “outraged to have to deal with the same prejudices, misconceptions, stereotypes, etc,”
Born and raised here except for 3.5 yrs and those years were from before 1 was one until I was 4
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:09 pm
Both
The point I was making is not that the religious leaders and institutions don’t have a dismal record. They do. It’s just that the secular and the atheistic, Johnny Come Latelys, have show an aptitude of equal ferocity.
M
April 23rd, 2012
6:10 pm
“Thou shalt not murder, unless it’s those guys way over there…oh, and you can have their wives.”
That was the original longhand translation.
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
6:12 pm
josef,
Thanks. Wish you were here this morning when I got gang bullied. Practical jokes and gentle teasing permeate my family and upbringing. Sometimes outsiders are confused. I tried explaining that hey, if we didn’t like you we wouldn’t bother with it. It’s an initiation of sorts. Somehow that makes me an arrogant bizzatch, says a man who –truly– knows that I’m not. Then another “southerner” jumped in and said I should be nice to everybody, (as IF I/we aren’t friendly, helpful, and welcoming to complete strangers every friggin day) and then contradicted her own self. There was a great deal of boorishness indeed.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
6:12 pm
I hear Bruno is a damn yankee.
_____
He even admits it. Seems proud of it also.
Sorry, Oscar, “Yankee” is your term, not mine. Holds about as much weight as me calling you an “Inbred Redneck”.
I’ve always considered myself to simply be a human being living on Planet Earth with a few billion of my fellow inhabitants. I’ll leave the racial/social/economic/geographical divisions to you and the rest of the hateful Libs here.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
6:13 pm
carlosgvv
I thought we were still on the question referenced in Bruno’s summary: “The building block of our current Universe is the atom. As such, we ultimately have to explain all of the observable phenomena in terms of atomic properties, which is the whole point of Quantum Mechanics. Unfortunately, there remains a deep disconnect between known atomic properties and the amazingly complex macro-world that we inhabit. In particular, life is unexplainable in terms of atomic properties. The seeming ability for atoms to “self-organize” into larger, purposeful entities cannot be explained at our current level of knowledge.”
Unless I’m misreading you, I read you as seeing two separate camps – science only or faith only. My point has always been one can easily fit into both simultaneously.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
6:13 pm
carlosgvv
Sorry, that last was in reference to your 5:45.
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
6:15 pm
josef @ 6:09
Thanks for the reply and clarification…….
Whether it is on this blog or in the “real world” I hear and read where people of any political ideology, religion (lack of meaning atheists, agnostics, etc), race, greed, economic status, etc will downplay what they do not like and accentuate what they do………
Guess that’s how people have been doing it for years and years
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:15 pm
M
And the 11th Commandment?
BOTH
I think it could, yes. Much of what I said can be said of straight folks, goyim, white folks, non Latinos…pick your group. I was referencing a certain clique with that. The ones who don’t get it. There are straight people who get it, goyim who get it…etc.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
6:15 pm
Sometimes outsiders are confused. I tried explaining that hey, if we didn’t like you we wouldn’t bother with it. It’s an initiation of sorts.
“Outsiders”, “we”, “initiation”–Sounds pretty arrogant to me, Matti. If it’s okay, I’ll join Doggone in forgoing any of your “tests” to decide if I can be in your “club”.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
6:16 pm
getalife
did you find kolob?
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
6:17 pm
frog,
Still asking but no reply.
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
6:18 pm
Holds about as much weight as me calling you an “Inbred Redneck”.
Now you’ve done done it. You know who ain’t gonna be none to happy about this!
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
6:18 pm
getalife
“willard running to the left out of radical rw extremists territory.”
and he can’t run fast enough -
_________________________
Lots of Yankee talk.
Well, tonight the Texas Rangers begin the first of three smackdowns on the once-great Yankees -
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
6:18 pm
There is a club on this blog?
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
6:19 pm
“l’ll leave the racial/social/economic/geographical divisions to you and the rest of the hateful Libs here.”
Bruno……… you really must work on that selective reading of these post that you would draw an impression that it is just “libs” being “hateful”……….
Or least it comes across that way that it is one sided, however there is only so much one can convey in a blog especially when replying to numerous people
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
6:20 pm
getalife
I read somewhere that
kolob is next to where
God lives but Willard
probably knows for sure.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:20 pm
matti
That ribbing we do intra nostra, My Granddaddy used to claim there was a dead Yankee in the woodpile for me to have the work ethic I have. He used to say of Granny’s family that they were “the Lost Tribe of the Lost Cause!”
I think my all time favorite ribbing using our regional “characters” was when John Kennedy said of D.C. “it has Northern charm and Southern efficiency!”
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
6:20 pm
“The building block of our current Universe is the atom. As such, we ultimately have to explain all of the observable phenomena in terms of atomic properties,
That would make climate modeling a beetch. We gonna need old Newt to increase the size of that moonbase in order to hold that super duper array of crays.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
6:21 pm
“and he can’t run fast enough”
He sprinted left like his pants are on fire.
Should be a good series with the Yankees.
Their bats are on fire.
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
6:21 pm
josef: I have a hard time using the term Jew. I think it is offensive. I prefer that someone is Jewish.
Likewise, I find the term goyim offensive. I prefer the term gentile.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:22 pm
matti
Sounds like Bruno’s application to join the club was rejected…
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
6:22 pm
“So some things are “good” or “evil” because a heavily edited and altered book says so?”
Perhaps you should look a bit deeper into this issue; I don’t think you have a very clear perspective of the situation. For example, apart from distinguishing between canonical and apocryphal books of the Old and New Testaments, I don’t know to what you are referring by the phrase “heavily edited and altered”. The New Testament in particular is the best sourced document by far of all ancient literature. The differences between the various extant manuscripts is very small, meaningfully insignificant and easily attributable to human error.
“If the bible were as absolute and as authoritative as claimed, then why don’t christians insist on having it read only in its original linguistic form, in order to prevent ambiguity and misreadings from creeping in? As an atheist, I don’t find christianity to be any more or less mythological than islam, but at least muslim clerics insist on the laity reading the koran in the original Arabic for just that reason.”
This is an odd argument in my view. Translation of words from one language to another has happened throughout history and I have never heard anyone contend that essential meaning cannot be conveyed this way. Nuances perhaps. And I think you misunderstand an important point: a person is responsible for what he knows (”to him who has been given much, much is expected” and vice versa). The great difficulty in your position, of course, is that people have to considerable training to be able to accurately read the Bible in its original languages. The difference between Christianity now and the way it was practiced in the years the Catholic Church held sway or Islam is that everyone has a responsibility to know what the Bible says instead of what someone says it says (like a Muslim Cleric or Catholic Priest of old).
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
6:22 pm
Dr. Disingenuous,
That won’t be a problem.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
6:23 pm
frog,
God would know.
If he made the universe, do you think he cares about lil humans on a tiny planet in a giant universe?
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:23 pm
Sooth
Don’t. Jew is a noun. Jewish is an adjective. Why do you find goyim offensive? It’s simply the Hebrew-Yiddish-Ladino way of saying non-Jew. It carries no negative denotation.
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
6:25 pm
n. pl. goy·im (goim) or goys Offensive
Used as a disparaging term for one who is not a Jew.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:25 pm
Town Crier
That’s why Jews (Jewishes?
) stick to the Hebrew. And given the nature of the Semitic languages, that’s confusing enough!
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:27 pm
Sooth
That is erroneous. Now, I’ll grant you the connotative can get dicey….personally, though, I prefer to call the individuals Shiksas and Shegetz…
F. Sinkwich
April 23rd, 2012
6:27 pm
Oh good. Jay doesn’t have anything positive about O’bozo to blog about so he does some religion thing.
I thought we might discuss how each of us celebrated Earth Day or something.
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
6:27 pm
“Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel,” he said in his weekly Saturday night sermon on the laws regarding the actions non-Jews are permitted to perform on Shabbat.”
– Rabbi Ovadia Yosef
M
April 23rd, 2012
6:28 pm
there are more differences among our manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament.
Bart D. Ehrman, Misquoting Jesus p. 10
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
6:29 pm
“As for the Big Bang theory, it has been the standard model for many years and has withstood every test. It is as certain as Evolution.”
Wow. Hard physical science being measured against soft, unsubstantiated “science”. The Big Bang Theory is much more certain than the evolutionary hypothesis, my friend. The one can be shown over and over by reproducible tests; the latter is much more akin to a myth.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
6:31 pm
Earth day filky?
Don’t worry.
They are looking for a new planet for the wealthy.
You will be stuck here as they finish off our planet.
Do you know where planet kolob is?
F. Sinkwich
April 23rd, 2012
6:31 pm
Maybe Jay could do a blog about how well the Federal Government spends our tax dollars, using GSA and Solyndra, etc., as examples of prudent stewardship.
F. Sinkwich
April 23rd, 2012
6:32 pm
How did you celebrate, getalife?
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
6:32 pm
josef: I know you are right about Jew vs. Jewish. But for some reason, I have always believed it was disparaging to call someone a Jew as opposed to saying that they are Jewish. I don’t know why I believe this.
saywhat?
April 23rd, 2012
6:33 pm
Bruno @ 6:12
“I’ll leave the racial/social/economic/geographical divisions to you and the rest of the hateful Libs here.”
________________
But you are all too willing to stoke ideological divisions? The irony of your statement is almost brilliant in its complete lack of self awareness. Well played.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
6:34 pm
Bruno……… you really must work on that selective reading of these post that you would draw an impression that it is just “libs” being “hateful”……….
It’s this simple, TBS. Conservative political theory is based on the idea that we are all the same, and that the law should apply equally to everyone. That is why it was the Republicans, and not the Democrats, who are primarily responsible for Civil Rights legislation. Not being content with everyone operating under the same set of rules, the Dems took things a step further beginning in the late 60s and started pushing for unfair laws such as Affirmative Action and Hate Crimes legislation which intend to favor or disfavor certain groups based on nothing but race. You can dress it up any way you like, but it is the Dems who keep racial separation and animosity alive by demanding that everyone be identified by race first and foremost. Think about it objectively for a minute.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
6:34 pm
“I have never heard anyone contend that essential meaning cannot be conveyed this way. Nuances perhaps. ”
Ever heard the term “it lost something in the translation”? And in some languages nuances can matter VERY much.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
6:35 pm
filky,
I planted some plants.
M
April 23rd, 2012
6:35 pm
Evolution a myth, towncrier? No reproducible tests? Google Richard Lenski’s work with E. coli.
saywhat?
April 23rd, 2012
6:35 pm
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
6:29 pm
“Wow. Hard physical science being measured against soft, unsubstantiated “science”. The Big Bang Theory is much more certain than the evolutionary hypothesis, my friend. The one can be shown over and over by reproducible tests; the latter is much more akin to a myth.”
____________________________________________________
Absolutely. They even have a museum in Tennessee showing people riding dinosaurs, so it must be true.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:35 pm
Sooth
So, I should quote David Duke as speaking for White People? Get real. There are, though, two terms we hold in reserve for the likes of you and the Rabbi you quote, “momser” and “chazer.”
carlosgvv
April 23rd, 2012
6:37 pm
Towncrier
Evolution is not a theory. It’s a fact. It really happened. Every Nobel Prize winning scientist has expressed a belief in evolution. Are you going to tell us all here you know more about evolution than them?
M
April 23rd, 2012
6:38 pm
The mountain of evidence contradicting evolution is real, and they put it in Narnia so that nobody can tamper with it.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
6:39 pm
Sinkwich
“Maybe Jay could do a blog about how well the Federal Government spends our tax dollars, using GSA and Solyndra, etc., as examples of prudent stewardship.”
Think big!
What about the hundreds of billions, upwards of a trillion, in wasted overruns and excess costs for the F-35 fighter plane, which doesn’t even work as advertised?
But if it’s Defense, it’s a Patriotic Overrun!
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
6:40 pm
Fish Sandwich: I understand your frustration. That’s why I invite you to visit my 5:38. I think you will find everything you’ve been wishing for there.
josef: I don’t know Rabbi Ovadia Yosef from Adam’s housecat. If he’s some kind of Jewish nutcase, I’m sorry.
pogo
April 23rd, 2012
6:40 pm
The “Orange Crush” thugs trashed Tybee Island beaches again. May they should move to St. Simons next year.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
6:41 pm
The one can be shown over and over by reproducible tests; the latter is much more akin to a myth.
Crier–Please point out to me even one “reproducible test” which demonstrates how the Universe began. Just a hunch, but I don’t think you’ll find any labs big enough to conduct your tests.
As stated above, the Big Bang exists only on paper and in computer models. That’s not enough proof for me.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
6:41 pm
“Conservative political theory is based on the idea that we are all the same, and that the law should apply equally to everyone.”
What load of crap.
They carry the water for the wealthy.
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
6:42 pm
carlosgvv
“Evolution is not a theory. It’s a fact. ”
In the interest of furthering the discussion and clarifying terms, from National Geographic, Was Darwin Wrong?
“Evolutionary theory, though, is a bit different”
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0411/feature1/fulltext.html
And with that, my son flew in on business so I’m off to meet him for supper.
Pleasant evening, all -
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
April 23rd, 2012
6:42 pm
“Maybe Jay could do a blog about how well the Federal Government spends our tax dollars, using GSA and Solyndra, etc., as examples of prudent stewardship.”
Think big!
What about the hundreds of billions, upwards of a trillion, in wasted overruns and excess costs for the F-35 fighter plane, which doesn’t even work as advertised?
But if it’s Defense, it’s a Patriotic Overrun!
———————————————————————————————————————————
Some of us actually think all those are pretty wasteful.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:42 pm
Doggone
You have had some most enlightening and provocative comments in our previous exchanges relative to the nuances “lost” in translation…as a professional translator, I can assure anyone, you can have a full day hair pulling over the “correct” translation of a word or term…and, whoo, boy! The mistakes you can make to come back and haunt you
M
April 23rd, 2012
6:43 pm
Well, Bruno, a lot of those same paper theories, computer models, and mathematical equations predicted black holes and other space phenomena that were subsequently discovered to be real. I’m much more apt to believe them than anybody who claims ‘GOD DID IT.’
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
6:43 pm
“What about the hundreds of billions, upwards of a trillion, in wasted overruns and excess costs for the F-35 fighter plane, which doesn’t even work as advertised?”
Forget about the $5,000,000,000,000.00 we’ve spent in EYE-rack. Sinkhole, please list what we got from the $5,000,000,000,000.00 we spent in EYE-rack.
1.
2.
F. Sinkwich
April 23rd, 2012
6:43 pm
Nice job, getalife. We always need more plants.
My planned celebration never happened because the loonie leftie eco-weenies didn’t publicize the occasion so I missed it. I’ll have to wait for next year.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
6:43 pm
“As stated above, the Big Bang exists only on paper and in computer models. That’s not enough proof for me.”
Then here’s your chance…come up with your own theory and then test it against observation and see how it holds up.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:43 pm
Doggone
Funny, reading back over that post and my use of “provocative.” What I really INTENDED was “though provokING..”
Lucifer
April 23rd, 2012
6:44 pm
OK. Show of hands. How many think some dude by the name of God played mind games with the ancients of yesteryear and had Moses and others take dictation about how mortal humans are supposed to pattern their lives?
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
6:45 pm
“I can assure anyone, you can have a full day hair pulling over the “correct” translation of a word or term…and, whoo, boy! The mistakes you can make to come back and haunt you”
I wouldn’t even begin to doubt that. My favorite is “mon chou” – translate that one directly, word for work, into English and it loses A LOT in translation!
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:46 pm
SOOTH
Then maybe you should have checked before you went quoting him Jewish “nutcase” is way too kind for him…
F. Sinkwich
April 23rd, 2012
6:47 pm
“What about the hundreds of billions, upwards of a trillion, in wasted overruns and excess costs for the F-35 fighter plane, which doesn’t even work as advertised?”
It will kick some ass when perfected.
I luvs me me some enemy ass kicked…
carlosgvv
April 23rd, 2012
6:47 pm
Paul – 6:13
1. The building block of our Universe is not the atom. It is the quark.
2. We do not know exactly how life started, yet. But, we’re getting closer every day.
3. Quantum Mechanics and general relativity have not been fully integrated yet. Scientists are getting close, though.
4. Some scientists are also people of faith. There does not have to be any conflict.
And, did you know that, according to mathematical physics, something really can come from nothing.
And, there was a time when there was no time.
Can you understand that?
Do not rely on Bruno for any scientific knowledge since, in that Dept. at least, he is a child’s garden of mis-information.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
6:48 pm
Evolution is not a theory. It’s a fact. It really happened.
carlos–It’s most definitely a fact that species change over time. What is in question is how do these changes come about. The current theory of Evolution posits that the mechanism of change is “random genetic mutation”. I hope that common sense alone will tell you that is wrong, that destructive genetic changes cannot magically produce a specific change in response to environmental pressures. The bottom line is that species adapt in an intelligent way, with a rapidity and specificity that no amount of random genetic changes can account for.
As I’ve theorized on this blog before, the most promising line of research to help explain the rapidity and specificity of change focuses on the epigenomes, which have the ability to activate, and even change the basic DNA structures in living beings.
Every Nobel Prize winning scientist has expressed a belief in evolution. Are you going to tell us all here you know more about evolution than them?
IMO, I have raised specific points relating to the areas of Science discussed today, demonstrating at least a working knowledge of the issues at hand. As for you, you keep making sweeping statements and Appeals to Authority, but haven’t addressed the first specific point I’ve made.
Does anyone on board here think carlos has presented anything of substance today?? One “No” vote here.
F. Sinkwich
April 23rd, 2012
6:48 pm
“Sinkhole, please list what we got from the $5,000,000,000,000.00 we spent in EYE-rack.”
Sooth has trouble with math. But then again Barbie does too.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
6:50 pm
“Funny, reading back over that post and my use of “provocative.” What I really INTENDED was “though provokING..” ”
That’s Ok, I knew what you meant…and I’m apparently not doing much better: “word for work”!!
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:51 pm
L’fer
And you are about as much of a “literalist” as the fundamentalists…
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
6:53 pm
“We do not know exactly how life started”
Oh, yes we do! The sperm met the egg and then they both smoked a cigarette!
Sinkhole: run along now, ya heah?
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
6:54 pm
“Evolution a myth, towncrier? No reproducible tests? Google Richard Lenski’s work with E. coli.”
No one disputes mutations within a species and one does not have to look at E. coli cells to establish that it happens. One can simply go visit a house built in the 17the century around Boston and see that Americans have grown taller. Cellular mutations to me do not prove intra-species evolution, especially when the argument that it does hinges on a man-made classification of the E. coli cell. On the other hand, it seems odd (given the otherwise heavy reliance upon dating and geology) that there really exits no compelling fossil evidence for Darwin’s theory (I mean, out of the trillions and trillions of organisms that have existed, one should think there would be more that a few, mostly partial remains here and there).
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
6:54 pm
I’m much more apt to believe them than anybody who claims ‘GOD DID IT.’
Sure thing, but you’re creating a false dichotomy. Show me where I’ve argued for a Supernatural Being here while I’ve criticized our current state of knowledge.
Then here’s your chance…come up with your own theory and then test it against observation and see how it holds up.
Same for you, Doggone. There’s no requirement to come up with a better theory in order to disprove an existing theory.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
6:55 pm
Doggone…
Make that THOUGHT provoking, though though provoking, too…
That mon chou…another one that slays me is vache, vachement…another one I like is in the Slavic languages one of the worst of the bad words is “cholera.” Given what the plague brought with it, it’s understandable why it would carry the weight it does, but how DO you translate it?
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
6:56 pm
filky,
Try reading the Aol blog because they promote it.
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
6:57 pm
“Sinkhole, please list what we got from the $5,000,000,000,000.00 we spent in EYE-rack.”
Sooth has trouble with math. But then again Barbie does too.
Alright, let me analyze this for you.
Since Sinkhole doesn’t have any real answer for the question I posed to him, he responds with a personal attack.
Variations of this action include attack and distract, whereby the poster attacks the original poster with nonsensical responses but, in addition, interjects a red herring or other device to distract the blog to a different thread.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
6:58 pm
“that there really exits no compelling fossil evidence for Darwin’s theory ”
Sure there is, but evolution deniers refuse to see it.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Greatest-Show-Earth-Evolution/dp/B007PM0V64/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335221868&sr=1-5
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
6:58 pm
“Please point out to me even one “reproducible test” which demonstrates how the Universe began. Just a hunch, but I don’t think you’ll find any labs big enough to conduct your tests. As stated above, the Big Bang exists only on paper and in computer models. That’s not enough proof for me.
Certain observable phenomena were posited that would substantiate the theory years before these observations were actually made. To the extent conclusions from repeatable observations are correct, the theory is correct. Do some research on it and see what observations I speak of.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
7:00 pm
“The current theory of Evolution posits that the mechanism of change is “random genetic mutation”. I hope that common sense alone will tell you that is wrong, that destructive genetic changes cannot magically produce a specific change in response to environmental pressures. The bottom line is that species adapt in an intelligent way, with a rapidity and specificity that no amount of random genetic changes can account for.”
Bruno, your evidence for this is what exactly? And this guiding “intelligence” that you posit? It resides where exactly? And you would inform the leading lights of evolutionary science that surely “common sense alone will tell you that is wrong”?
The basics of evolution and genetic drift are rooted in large numbers. Many many genes interacting many with many many other genes many times a generation over many generations produce an astounding number of genetic differences, many of which prove to be inconsequential or even damaging.
However, a very tiny percentage of that very large number of genetic alterations produces changes that are positive in terms of survival and thus have an enhanced chance of being passed onto later generations. It is random chance, yes, but random chance on a large enough number has a pretty good chance of playing out. Someone, in other words, wins the lottery.
Let me ask you Bruno:
Would Harvey Mudd hire someone who advocates your theory to teach biology or any other life science?
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:00 pm
“Please point out to me even one “reproducible test” which demonstrates how the Universe began”
Reproducible tests are not the only test of a scientific theory. Repeatability applies to observation as well as action.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
7:01 pm
Since when did science gain a patent on the term “evolution?” Evolution is part and parcel of the human experience.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
7:01 pm
1. The building block of our Universe is not the atom. It is the quark.
Several problems with that outlook, carlos. For starters, quarks are little more than a theoretical construction since they cannot be observed directly in Nature and cannot be isolated for study.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark
Like string theory, quark theory simply represents a convenient mathematical way to explain observable phenomena. However, at no point can either model claim to be “reality” itself. Which is the big point you seem to be missing. Reality, and our ideas about reality, are not the same thing, in the same way that a picture of the ocean and the ocean itself are forever distinct. You keep pointing to the picture of the ocean and telling me it’s the real thing. Sorry, no sale.
As for your points (2) and (3), you are confirming what I’ve been saying all day. We don’t know. To me, it’s more honest to admit the truth than to try to browbeat people with ridiculous Appeals to Authority.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
7:03 pm
Mo Maimonides is rolling over in his tomb….
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:03 pm
“There’s no requirement to come up with a better theory in order to disprove an existing theory”
Actually? Yes, there is. It is possible to “kill” a theory by showing where it’s wrong…but there still remains the observable phenomonon to be accounted for.
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
7:04 pm
“Sure there is, but evolution deniers refuse to see it.”
Or else evolutionists try to make a mountain of a questionable molehill. There should be a preponderance of evidence given the number of organisms that have existed, not some fragments or a few whole fossils pieced together in someone’s imagination to substantiate a myth. To me, it is like using the Shroud of Turin to prove the resurrection of Jesus (even the gospels say that Jesus way wrapped in linen strips and not a whole cloth). It just doesn’t hold water.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:05 pm
“Since when did science gain a patent on the term “evolution?” Evolution is part and parcel of the human experience”
Probably about the same time that scientific theory separated from theory in the vernacular. Scientific evolution means more than just “change”
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:06 pm
“It just doesn’t hold water”
As I said…refuse to see it.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
7:06 pm
There is not a human on this planet that can prove how the universe was created .
We should be more concerned on our future than wasting time on that issue.
Innovation, jobs, focus cons.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
7:07 pm
However, a very tiny percentage of that very large number of genetic alterations produces changes that are positive in terms of survival and thus have an enhanced chance of being passed onto later generations. It is random chance, yes, but random chance on a large enough number has a pretty good chance of playing out. Someone, in other words, wins the lottery.
Jay–I’m well aware of the “large number” theory to support random genetic mutation as the mechanism of change, but as far as I know, it’s never been demonstrated to be the case. As I’ve mentioned several times, I believe that it will eventually be shown that our genomes actively direct changes in our genetic structures in response to specific environmental stresses. We’re just now scratching the surface, but it makes a lot more sense to me than randomness. But since we’re still in the “faith” stage, we get to pick. You’re certainly free to put your faith in randomness, but I’m more comfortable relying on the intelligence which I see permeate the Universe at every level.
Would Harvey Mudd hire someone who advocates your theory to teach biology or any other life science?
As I mentioned to you before, my alma mater has turned into a PC cesspool with the election of Maria Klawe as its President. Truth is now subordinate to one’s political views.
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
7:09 pm
“Forget about the $5,000,000,000,000.00 we’ve spent in EYE-rack. Sinkhole, please list what we got from the $5,000,000,000,000.00 we spent in EYE-rack.”
The truth is, we didn’t get shyte for the $5,000,000,000,000.00 we spent in EYE-rack. The Military Security Complex extracted this money from the taxpayers of America for their own gain.
Oh, but you won’t ever hear Bruno or Thulsa or any of the other Fright-Wingers complaining about it. No, they’re too worried that somewhere, somehow, some “Welfare Queen” is sucking off their tax dollars.
Even though what we spend on “welfare” is a minute fraction of what we spend on the Military Security Complex, nonetheless, “welfare” is what controls the Fright-Wing mind.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
7:12 pm
Not only have the mic robbed the treasury, the greedy wealthy have robbed trillions.
The cons carry that water.
The rest is bs.
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
7:13 pm
“Evolution is not a theory. It’s a fact. It really happened. Every Nobel Prize winning scientist has expressed a belief in evolution. Are you going to tell us all here you know more about evolution than them?”
I am saying I don’t belief what they are saying just because there have a title of “scientist” and may have won a Nobel Prize. A number of evolutionists have conceded that their belief in the theory has a anti-theistic foundation. Evolutionary “science” is simply not on the same footing as, say, physics or chemistry. What are they able to prove conclusively – that is the question for me. I cannot doubt that hydrogen and oxygen combine to form water, because I can verify it myself in a lab.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
7:14 pm
How about MIT, Bruno?
Harvard? Cal-Berkeley? Stanford, Cornell? Would any of them hire someone who espoused that theory? While the large-numbers theory has not been proved to be the process by which evolution occurs, it has been proved to be a process by which it COULD occur. The mechanism works.
And this theory of yours …. by what mechanism would this cellular-level “intelligence” work?
josef
April 23rd, 2012
7:15 pm
G-d and evolution…that’s already been reconciled…it’s drug related….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsrS_vQLCnQ
Jack
April 23rd, 2012
7:15 pm
Religion is a private thing. Or should be.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:17 pm
“We should be more concerned on our future than wasting time on that issue”
That waste of time issue lead to the theory of quantuum mechanics, without which we would not have our modern, computerized world.
larry
April 23rd, 2012
7:17 pm
Sinkhole, please list what we got from the $5,000,000,000,000.00 we spent in EYE-rack.”
A lot of soldiers who need caring for, so that 5,000,000,000,000.00 is just for starters.
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
7:17 pm
Sometimes the job depends on being thorough!
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:19 pm
“but as far as I know, it’s never been demonstrated to be the case.”
And therein lies your problem. “As far as I know” just means you don’t know enough.
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
7:19 pm
“Yes, there is. It is possible to “kill” a theory by showing where it’s wrong…but there still remains the observable phenomonon to be accounted for.”
Science assumes that all questions are answerable – or perhaps more than actually are. We may or may not be able to discover an verifiable explanation for any given observable phenomena.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
7:20 pm
And this guiding “intelligence” that you posit? It resides where exactly?
Jay–I gave you and everyone here the bottom line a while ago. Because the atom is the building block of the Universe, ultimately we have to explain all of the observable phenomena in terms of atomic properties, which is the whole point of Quantum Mechanics. Unfortunately, there remains a deep disconnect between known atomic properties and the amazingly complex macro-world that we inhabit. So, until Science can start explaining the obvious intelligence by which the Universe operates in terms of atomic properties, then we don’t know much.
And please don’t try to deny the obvious intelligence all around us. The fact remains that our bodies consist of approximately 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms, all working in coordination. At some point, arguments for “randomness” as the driving, creative force in the Universe look pretty silly.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
7:21 pm
Oh lawdy, Carlos picked a science fight with Bruno.
As Mr. T would say “I pity the fool”.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:22 pm
“Science assumes that all questions are answerable”
So does religion. Maybe not any particular, given religion…but religion in the generic makes the same assumption. The difference being that science set pretty rigorous standards for a theory to become accepted. Religion just says “believe” – no rigor required.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
7:22 pm
Our President is up by 40 with Latinos so willard panders with rubio and the dream act.
Good luck with that willard.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
7:23 pm
And therein lies your problem. “As far as I know” just means you don’t know enough.
Here’s your chance, then, Doggone. Show me a study which documents how random genetic changes lead directly to intelligent adaptation. I don’t know of any, but I’m all ears.
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
7:23 pm
Double, double toil and trouble, fire burn and cauldron bubble
dbm
April 23rd, 2012
7:24 pm
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:30 pm
If you look at the various ways in which the two words are actually used, you’ll find a lot that doesn’t fit those definitions. For example, are you saying that Communism is “conservative”?
larry
April 23rd, 2012
7:24 pm
Soooooooooooo, maybe its magic !!!???
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
7:27 pm
Ah, the “obvious intelligence” approach. Because of course, it’s “obvious.”
One more thing, Bruno. If mere common sense tells you that evolutionary theory is nonsense, why do ALL of the world’s top life-science experts accept it as the basic narrative for the differentiation of species? They argue sometimes heatedly over details of it, but not over the essential truth. None of them as far as I know — and please correct me if I’m wrong — espouse the theory that you find so convincing.
So why are they all so wrong when again, mere common sense tells us that their theory is implausible?
dbm
April 23rd, 2012
7:27 pm
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
5:33 pm
What you’re saying is that you disagree with my definition, since you think anything that is not theistic is not a religion. So neither one satisfies your definition, which is not the question I was raising.
larry
April 23rd, 2012
7:28 pm
so willard panders with rubio and the dream act.
The key word is pander. They already disagree on immagration reform.
I still think its either going to be Sen. Portman or the Gov. of Virginia.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
7:28 pm
Scientists should be innovating in areas like green energy because there is no proof bruno.
We need a national focus on jobs and not silly distractions like social issues.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
7:29 pm
I missed news of the
experiment where a
non living mass was
was turned into a
living mass and the
repetition thereof as
proof of evolution.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
7:30 pm
larry,
The reason why you are 40 points behind was the gop coordinated attack on immigrants.
The farmers are mad at the gop.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:31 pm
” I don’t know of any, but I’m all ears.”
No, you aren’t…because if you were you would have found the information that exists. You can’t find what you aren’t even looking for.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
7:31 pm
“Thulsa that is just so sad.
You guys are bringing up Peron and Allende and Argentina and Chile from 40 years ago, but it’s somehow out of bounds for me to cite an American president who left office less than four years ago? That’s real logical there….”
Jay,
Well now actually you brought up Pinochet in Chile and I simply responded.
Secondly the point that both I and ragnar have made is that in looking at the 2 countries they languished under leftist govts and under right wing governments were much better off. For God’s sake look at the disaster Argentina has become ever since the leftists took over. Chile went center right and has done much better. How and why you make that connection to the blame W game that Obama plays everyday is bizarre. Sad too.
And your argument that right wing dictatorships such as Pinochet or the Argentine military junta were “totalitarian” is ridiculous. A totalitarian state controls or tries to control nearly every facet of your life. And while right wing dictators such as Pinochet are oppressive they don’t seek to dominate and control every facet of your life. Hell you could just leave if you don’t like it and should you choose to stay you won’t have much for political freedom but you will certainly have more economic freedom than in a totalitarian state like the Soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba, and other totalitarian states.
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
7:32 pm
Even thought Little Rickie has “suspended” his campaign, his sweater vest fights on!
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
7:33 pm
“The reason why you are 40 points behind was the gop coordinated attack on immigrants.”
I guess those mean ole republicans are at it again- organized shootings of immigrants. Can’t get nothing past getalife.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
7:33 pm
Harvard? Cal-Berkeley? Stanford, Cornell? Would any of them hire someone who espoused that theory?
Maybe you’re naive enough to believe that politics plays no role in who gets hired and who gets research money, but Big Science is just as much of a “good ol boy” network as any out there. Express any type of heretical view, and see how far you get. The gentleman who proposed that ulcers are caused by bacteria was nearly laughed out of the medical community.
http://sciencecases.lib.buffalo.edu/cs/collection/detail.asp?case_id=571&id=571
While the large-numbers theory has not been proved to be the process by which evolution occurs, it has been proved to be a process by which it COULD occur. The mechanism works.
BFD. Many mathematical constructs “work” on paper, but have no basis in the real world. Saying something COULD work is about the weakest argument I’ve ever seen for forcing school children to be force fed an unproven theory.
And this theory of yours …. by what mechanism would this cellular-level “intelligence” work?
Read up on epigenome theory, and we can talk more. As far as explaining this on an atomic level, good luck. But, a lack of a specific explanation shouldn’t prevent us from acknowledging the obvious.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
7:35 pm
“The difference being that science set pretty rigorous standards for a theory to become accepted. Religion just says “believe” – no rigor required.”
Rigor can be and is applied, but to the text and not the world at large. The problem of evil is perhaps the biggest challenge to biblical faith because the Bible does not provide the kind of answers we want for the existence of suffering. We all confront it sooner or later. Someone earlier quoted from one of Bart D. Ehrman’s books. He has written one specifically dealing with this issue. At this point in time, I suspect that the reason the kind of answer we are looking for is not given in the Bible is because the most important thing to God is for us to believe the opposite of what Satan suggested in Eden to Eve – namely, that God is not really good. Believing that sometimes despite all appearances to the contrary He is good is the bedrock of trust (whereas in Eden, despite all appearance to the contrary, mankind was enticed to believe He was not good). There is either a God of the Bible or there is not. And, if He exists, He is either good or He is not.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
7:35 pm
A con could call out willard on moving left but there are none left.
Marginalized .
The gop attacked every voting group to appease the cons and now they will pay by losing.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
7:36 pm
It’s hard to know just who’s channeling Pope Paul V here this p.m.
but…
dopo, il muovi…
St Simons - he-ne-hah
April 23rd, 2012
7:36 pm
as to the article, it’s a little deeper than that, mon
if you were at de island you could see it, mon
whether it’s the rigid ideology of religion, or rigid political ideology,
it’s all about affordable control of the masses. When you free yourself
of that, then you will be free. That’s what the Elders meant when they
told us about the New Age coming this December. You’ll see.
It’s all good, except for those stuck in the old ways.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:37 pm
“Rigor can be and is applied, but to the text and not the world at large”
And therefore there is no rigor applied. The text is manmade. When it comes to God it just says “believe” – no rigor required or applied. When you say “God willed it” you’ve ended all discussion and all rigor.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
7:37 pm
“why do ALL of the world’s top life-science experts accept it as the basic narrative for the differentiation of species?”
Just about every Christian I know believes in evolution within a species- adaptational changes over time within species. Its on the evolutionary theory of one creature turning completely into another that we disagree. Of course I’ll believe the evolutionists who say we completely evolved from one creature like monkeys into what we are now when they can conclusively prove it. Hell I’ll believe them when they can just point to me one species that completely evolved into a whole different species. Just one. That’s all Doomy is asking for. Just one.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
7:37 pm
frog
It was the Golem of Prague…
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
7:38 pm
“Maybe you’re naive enough to believe that politics plays no role in who gets hired and who gets research money, but Big Science is just as much of a “good ol boy” network as any out there. Express any type of heretical view, and see how far you get.”
Well said, Bruno. Universities are often very less than “scientific”, but they keep that somewhat hidden. They. like the Catholic Church of old, have their own orthodoxies to which members must submit.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
7:39 pm
How big is space?
How did we get here?
Where is the beef?
josef
April 23rd, 2012
7:39 pm
St Simon’s
You’ve got until December to give me back my five bucks, Pete…and no t-shirt with Jesus riding a unicorn or some such sh*t…and where are my car keys?
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:39 pm
“Just about every Christian I know believes in evolution within a species- adaptational changes over time within species”
But that is not evolution in a scientific sense. That is just adaptation. It isn’t scientific evolution until there is a separation beyond which there is no going back to a single species. It is speciation that is scientific evolution…not just change and adaptation.
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
7:40 pm
“And therefore there is no rigor applied. The text is manmade.”
In your belief and so, from that vantage, it is worthless (as it would be to me if thought similarly).
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
7:41 pm
Science assumes that all questions are answerable
Not true, Crier. Some problems are “undecidable”, such that no answer can ever be found, no matter how much time and energy we put into it.
None of them as far as I know — and please correct me if I’m wrong — espouse the theory that you find so convincing.
Jay–By your own admission, no can demonstrate how random genetic mutations lead to intelligent adaptation. As such, why should I respect any of their opinions at all??
No, you aren’t…because if you were you would have found the information that exists. You can’t find what you aren’t even looking for.
Doggone, Jay admits there is no proof of random genetic changes being the driving mechanism behind Evolution. Though I haven’t looked lately, I’ve never hearde of any studies which make that link. If you know of some, put it up, or else admit that you don’t know anything more than anyone else.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:42 pm
“In your belief and so, from that vantage, it is worthless”
What is worthless? Religious texts? I would never say that. I try to apply a rigorous test to them to try to differentiate what is human made in them and what is truly divine, but I don’t ask or expect that everyone agree with me.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
7:42 pm
I survived Y2K.
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
7:42 pm
“But that is not evolution in a scientific sense. That is just adaptation. It isn’t scientific evolution until there is a separation beyond which there is no going back to a single species. It is speciation that is scientific evolution…not just change and adaptation.”
What part of TD’s statement that “Its on the evolutionary theory of one creature turning completely into another that we disagree” did you not understand?
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
7:43 pm
We need a renewable energy resource that will never run out like oil.
Get to work scientists.
Brosephus™
April 23rd, 2012
7:43 pm
josef
When you get a chance, I sent you a message…
—————————
St Simons
What’s the deal with the “Orange Crush”? Any idea of what schools, if any, specifically were involved?
josef
April 23rd, 2012
7:43 pm
JAY
But, what does Th- Ha-ry Th-nderer have to say about this, since y’all are on a first name basis!
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
7:44 pm
“The gentleman who proposed that ulcers are caused by bacteria was nearly laughed out of the medical community.”
I agree with that. I remember that case well. Once he produced actual evidence, people looked at it and said, “Wow! He’s right and we’re wrong!” And science changed in response to actual data.
Likewise, if someone were to successfully challenge the theory of evolution, he or she would cement a reputation as a scientific titan for all time, standing alongside Einstein and Newton and displacing Darwin. And yet …. nothing. You’d think that if it was so “obvious,” as some claim, or “simple common sense,” somebody would have stepped up to claim the glory.
Must be that “political correctness” holding them back.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:44 pm
“Doggone, Jay admits there is no proof of random genetic changes being the driving mechanism behind Evolution. Though I haven’t looked lately, I’ve never hearde of any studies which make that link. If you know of some, put it up, or else admit that you don’t know anything more than anyone else”
I’m not Jay and am under no obligation to agree with him. That you refuse to even try to gain a better understanding of the process and the proofs for it says FAR more about you and your attitudes than anything I could say says about my own.
And I am under no obligation to “admit” any such thing as you demand. I made the effort to educate myself on the subject…I am under no obligation to undertake to be your teacher. If I can self-educat on the subject, so can you.
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
7:45 pm
“Not true, Crier. Some problems are “undecidable”, such that no answer can ever be found, no matter how much time and energy we put into it.”
I qualified my initial statement if you look at the original post, so we agree. I was writing “out loud”.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:45 pm
““Its on the evolutionary theory of one creature turning completely into another that we disagree” did you not understand?”
I understood it. I disagree with it.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:45 pm
“We need a renewable energy resource that will never run out like oil.”
We already have one. We just need to find out how to make the best, maximum use of it.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
7:45 pm
“At some point, arguments for “randomness” as the driving, creative force in the Universe look pretty silly.”
In reading the atheist view of how life got started I read that 2 Swiss evolutioniist mathematicians calculated the scientific odds of life randomly beginning on earth in the last 2 billion years or so. The odds? One in 10 to the 160th power. A perty large number.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
7:46 pm
BROSEPHUS
When? It hasn’t come up yet…resend?
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:47 pm
“One in 10 to the 160th power. A perty large number.”
But it isn’t zero
josef
April 23rd, 2012
7:47 pm
BROSEPHUS
There it is…ignore previous….
St Simons - he-ne-hah
April 23rd, 2012
7:48 pm
josef, i spent the 5 bucks on the medicine for the spirit
of the extension cord.
So guess what’s in my wallet? Not 5 bucks, i tell ya, that’s what
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
7:48 pm
“Orange crush” sounds like blotter acid.
Brosephus™
April 23rd, 2012
7:48 pm
josef
Sent at 7:42
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
7:49 pm
H-rry has not authorized me to speak for him, Josef. I am not his Moses.
And as those who saw me on Maddow might agree, I am also not his Aaron.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
7:49 pm
Oh lawdy, Carlos picked a science fight with Bruno.
As Mr. T would say “I pity the fool”.
Help me out here, Doom, and please be objective. Don’t sugarcoat it for my sake. carlos has been running his mouth here for a while about how certain our scientific knowledge is, yet he can’t provide any specifics other than vague generalities mixed in with a bunch of insults against anyone who doesn’t toe the Science Orthodoxy line. On the other hand, I believe that I’ve demonstrated at least a working knowledge of the topics at hand in order to raise reasonable objections. Who has made a more convincing case tonight?? Is our level of scientific knowledge as demonstrated by carlos and Jay strong enough that heretics like me should simply sit by quietly??
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
7:50 pm
This whole question is just so complicated. I’m having a hard time understanding it.
If only Redneck Convert were here, maybe he and Norman Einstein could explain it to me so’s I could understand it!
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:51 pm
“Is our level of scientific knowledge as demonstrated by carlos and Jay strong enough that heretics like me should simply sit by quietly??”
Is the level of scientific knowledge as demonstarted by heretics like you strong enough that carlos and Jay should simply sit by quietly?
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
7:51 pm
Bruno makes an appeal to authority, and the authority is Doom?
Well, desperate times…
St Simons - he-ne-hah
April 23rd, 2012
7:52 pm
Bro, what is dis Orange Crush you speak of?
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
7:52 pm
“Likewise, if someone were to successfully challenge the theory of evolution, he or she would cement a reputation as a scientific titan for all time, standing alongside Einstein and Newton and displacing Darwin. ”
I admire you flair for the dramatic, Jay. Just how would one go about successfully challenging the evolutionary hypothesis? You seem to regard it as “scientific” when in fact it is more quasi-historical in nature. If it cannot be demonstrated in a laboratory or by repeatable observation, it is not hard science. All Darwin did is took a geological theory (uniformitarianism) and applied it to biology. Where is the genius in that?
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
7:52 pm
Towncrier @ 7:42,
Thank you. Sometimes people just start arguing semantics and forget the larger point of what is being made.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:54 pm
“If it cannot be demonstrated in a laboratory or by repeatable observation”
Repeatable observation is exactly what “demonstrates” evolution.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
7:55 pm
“Thank you. Sometimes people just start arguing semantics and forget the larger point of what is being made”
sometimes nuances matter
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
7:55 pm
The Swiss mathematician who made that calculation, Charles-Eugene Guye, died in 1942. So let’s just say he wasn’t exactly operating with the benefit of modern knowledge, shall we?
JamVet
April 23rd, 2012
7:56 pm
Sooth has trouble with math.
The fact-averse, empirically challenged, apparently UGA non-educated Sink is unwittingly barking up the right tree, but as always is incorrect..
The final tab after all of the maimed GIs and their ruined bodies are taken care of properly will likely top $10,000,000,000,000.000.
But it was all SO worth it, right Bush chickenhawks?!
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
7:56 pm
I stopped listening to hitchins because of Iraq but he died on the same day the Iraq occupation ended.
.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
7:57 pm
getalife
orange crush is a
wonderful drink nearly
as good as kool aid.
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
7:58 pm
“The Swiss mathematician who made that calculation, Charles-Eugene Guye, died in 1942. So let’s just say he wasn’t exactly operating with the benefit of modern knowledge, shall we?”
So, point us to a current evolutionist who would claim the odds are more like, say, winning Cash 3? Or are you being deliberately disingenuous?
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
7:58 pm
“Is the level of scientific knowledge as demonstarted by heretics like you strong enough that carlos and Jay should simply sit by quietly?”
Common sense says it is, Doggone.
Obviously. Or so we’ve been told.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
7:58 pm
I agree with that. I remember that case well. Once he produced actual evidence, people looked at it and said, “Wow! He’s right and we’re wrong!” And science changed in response to actual data.
Likewise, if someone were to successfully challenge the theory of evolution, he or she would cement a reputation as a scientific titan for all time, standing alongside Einstein and Newton and displacing Darwin. And yet …. nothing. You’d think that if it was so “obvious,” as some claim, or “simple common sense,” somebody would have stepped up to claim the glory.
Jay–Please reread your own post. Drs. Robin Warren and Barry Marshall were vindicated when evidence proved them correct. Not before. Unlike Obama, no one gave them a Nobel Prize before they actually accomplished something. Yet, that’s essentially what you’re asking us to do for the Evolutionists. No proof, but we’re supposed to bow down to their superior knowledge according to you. Really, Jay??
That you refuse to even try to gain a better understanding of the process and the proofs for it says FAR more about you and your attitudes than anything I could say says about my own.
DOggone–Like carlos, all you’ve offered is vague generalities, while I’ve demonstrated that I HAVE looked into Evolution by critiquing specific facets of the theory. Put up or shut up.
Brosephus™
April 23rd, 2012
7:58 pm
St Simons
Seems like it’s a party that got way out of control over at your neighbor’s place… Tybee Island.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
7:59 pm
Thanks Frog.
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
8:01 pm
“Repeatable observation is exactly what “demonstrates” evolution.”
Only changes within a species. If you can point me to where I can see one species turning into another over and over again, please do and say us the argument. That is the sophistry of evolutionary theory: inter-species mutations PROVE intra-species evolution.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
April 23rd, 2012
8:02 pm
This whole question is just so complicated. I’m having a hard time understanding it.
If only Redneck Convert were here, maybe he and Norman Einstein could explain it to me so’s I could understand it!
Well, Sooth, I ain’t made sense of much of anything since this blog started. I couldn’t even agree with Matti about us messing with outsiders. I don’t know what part of the South she growed up in, but we don’t mess with people just to see if they got a sense of humor. We mess with them to get them out of here. It use to take a burning cross, but now it’s against the law for us to do that.
Anyhow, I’ll stick around awhile longer to see if I can get the hang of the topic. But don’t hold your breath till you hear from me. It’s so deep in here I feel like putting on my trout fishing waders.
Meantime, you still got The Picture? You know, since that Secret Service talked about checking out Sarah, I could use some checking out of Michelle.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
8:02 pm
A tad pole turns into a frog.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
8:02 pm
Bruno,
There’s a reason why I don’t argue with you on scientific matters. I’ve tried before and realized I didn’t have near the scientific knowledge. Nor anyone else on this board including Jay. Frankly I think Carlos brought his peashooter to a gunfight. Towncrier also has some good logical points.
I don’t know as much about science as you or some of the others on here. But I know enough to know an absurdly weak and ridiculous argument such as the ones Carlos has presented.He shoulda just kept quiet. Jay has fared a little better but not much.
Vague generalites, insults, and stalling or just uttering a bunch of baloney as Carlos has done are simply the standard liberal strategy. I notice you have posted several links to back up your statements which I intend to read later at my leisure.
Jay at least has some decent points but I think both you and towncrier have exposed some of his points as less than convincing and lacking in scientific merit.
I’m with you Bruno. Your arguments seem to be more logical, more well thought out, and far more importantly- linked with scientific points and or explanations.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
8:02 pm
I’m not being disingenuous, Crier. I am merely responding to an earlier claim. That is permitted in this debate, correct?
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
8:05 pm
getalife
tadpoles are living beings
that love orange crush.
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
8:06 pm
“I’m not being disingenuous, Crier. I am merely responding to an earlier claim. That is permitted in this debate, correct?”
Of course. So, is there anyone you know of who would not say the odds are astronomically small? That was what I was getting at.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
8:07 pm
Common sense says it is, Doggone.
Obviously. Or so we’ve been told.
In case you’re unfamiliar with how Math and Science actually advance, it always starts with a hunch, an “unscientific” belief motivated by intuition and common sense. Which is exactly how Darwin went about it. Such theories can only move beyond the level of “hunch” when actual proof appears. By your own admission, such proof doesn’t exist for the case of Evolution, and you’ll have to take my word that no proof exists regarding the Big Bang either unless you’re willing to read and critique Roger Penrose’s seminal work “The Road to Reality”. If you can’t afford it, I’ll buy you a copy and send it to the AJC. Good luck getting past the first chapter.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Road-Reality-Complete-Universe/dp/0679776311/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1335225929&sr=8-3
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
8:08 pm
Frog,
“Some residents of Tybee Island are angry after college students and young adults left piles of cans, bottles, cups and other trash on the beach after an annual gathering known as “Orange Crush.” AJC
Clean up the beach mon.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
8:08 pm
“That you refuse to even try to gain a better understanding of the process and the proofs for it says FAR more about you and your attitudes than anything I could say says about my own.”
I was thinking the same thing doggone. Not to be too critical but you wrote a few paragraphs of heated rhetoric and generalized, vague criticism. You did not present a specific argument or factual point regarding why your point would be correct in this debate.
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
8:09 pm
I’m out all…gotta watch The Voice. Goodnight.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
8:11 pm
getalife
probably the tadpoles.
they may have morphed
and got the frog outta
there.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
8:12 pm
Bruno makes an appeal to authority, and the authority is Doom?
Well, desperate times…
Doom @ 8:02–Thanks for the backup, but our esteemed host has now informed me that all of your opinions are bunk also.
I can see Jay now, sitting in judgment of Socrates for heresy.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
8:12 pm
Frog,
There is your proof of evolution.
Boris Badnoff
April 23rd, 2012
8:14 pm
Because the acronym NAZI is Nationalsozialismus which means National Socialism, one could certainly make the argument that Hitler and his ilk were left wing socialists. And Stalin headed the Union of Soviet Socialists Republics. And socialists are left wing. What then is meant by the term right wing? Anarchy. Law of the Jungle. No government. No taxes. No law. You take care of yourself and government doesn’t exist. The problem with the right wing is with no red lights utter chaos results during rush hour. Somebody has to yield the right of way.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
8:14 pm
getalife
our president is on the
same educational path as
willard. ditto healthcare.
is he drinking the kolob
kool aid?
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
8:15 pm
Redneck, you’re not talking about this picture are you?
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
8:16 pm
“DOggone–Like carlos, all you’ve offered is vague generalities, while I’ve demonstrated that I HAVE looked into Evolution by critiquing specific facets of the theory. Put up or shut up”
Critiquing is not proving, not is it disproving. The discrepancies in the evolutionary theory are well known, and discussed. You have offered nothing new. And there is no need for me, or anyone, to “put up” because YOU have NOT “put up”either
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
8:17 pm
Speaking of who has the absolute certainty of common sense and science on their side this whole debate reminds me of the church vs galileo or of many other instances such as Marconi’s friends who were going to have him committed to an asylum for the crazy belief that sound could be transmitted wirelessly through the air.
Seems like the liberals in the climate debate or theory of evolution or the beginning of life debates all seem to think that any other point of view is absurd, without merit, and deserving of ridicule. They, like the church in galileo’s time, act arrogantly in the belief that their science is the only science and that anyone who disagrees with them is either stupid or just one of them knuckle dragging neanderthal cons as they like to say.
And as seen yet again here today when their arguments are exposed they resort to the usual generalities, vague arguments, insults, semantics wars, and cacophany of nonsense and bluster to BS their way out of their weak arguments.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
8:18 pm
“That is the sophistry of evolutionary theory: inter-species mutations PROVE intra-species evolution”
Nope, but they do indicate it. There is no obligation to “believe” it. But if you intend to disprove it, you need to disprove it on it’s own ground…not on the quagmire of “common sense”
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
8:20 pm
getalife
tadpole and frog are just
two labels attached to
the same being in different
stages of development.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
8:20 pm
“You did not present a specific argument or factual point regarding why your point would be correct in this debate.”
That’s the best part about being on “my side” of the discussion. I don’t have to. Thousands of evolutionary scientists have already done that, and far better than I ever could. Their work is public, all you have to do is read it.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
8:22 pm
“Because the acronym NAZI is Nationalsozialismus which means National Socialism, one could certainly make the argument that Hitler and his ilk were left wing socialists. ”
No you can’t. All you can make is the argument that they used the word. That is not proof they believed in it. It’s just as likely they were trying to attract those who DID by using the word.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
8:23 pm
I would certainly never say that all of Doom’s opinions are bunk. Not in the least.
I do, however, question his qualifications to referee this particular debate.
St Simons - he-ne-hah
April 23rd, 2012
8:23 pm
Bro – oh, that’s what we call the “flash mob” thing, the kids with
their cell phones, its all the rage. A lot of egg on Savannah St’s face.
But to their credit, they sent a crew at their expense to clean it up
the next weekend, so let’s look at both sides of that coin.
sad that Youth is wasted on the Young……etc
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
8:25 pm
Scientists should be innovating in areas like green energy because there is no proof bruno.
Good point, getalife. Just wanted you to know I was paying attention.
Well, gotta run. No use waiting around for Jay to ever admit he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
I did want to share a funny episode from “Crooked Cucumber”, which is the life story of my spiritual hero, Shunyru Suzuki. One of his American students tried to trap him by asking Suzuki “If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, did it make a sound??” Without missing a beat, Suzuki simply said “It doesn’t matter.”
Beautiful lesson in there somewhere.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
8:26 pm
“Well, gotta run. No use waiting around for Jay to ever admit he doesn’t know what he’s talking about”
No use waiting around for Bruno to ever admit he doesn’t know what he’s talking about
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
8:27 pm
Arguing that the Nazis were left-wing because they called themselves National Socialist is like arguing that East Germany was democratic because it called itself the German Democratic Republic.
St Simons - he-ne-hah
April 23rd, 2012
8:28 pm
Enter your comments here
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
8:28 pm
“but our esteemed host has now informed me that all of your opinions are bunk also.”
And if he were friends with Marconi I can venture that in his self assuredness of science he would have been one of the ones pushing to have Marconi committed to an asylum.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
7:55 pm
“The Swiss mathematician who made that calculation, Charles-Eugene Guye, died in 1942. So let’s just say he wasn’t exactly operating with the benefit of modern knowledge, shall we?”
Jay,
Going by that logic should we then throw out the theory of Darwin from a couple of centuries ago? Does Einstein’s theory also not deserve merit since it was during the same time frame as that of the Swiss mathmetician I spoke of? Does Plato’s(or was is Socrates) concept of pi no longer apply because it was a few thousand years ago? Does Maxwell’s mathematics from long ago before Einstein no longer apply? I could go on all day long but hopefully by now you recognize the absurdity of your point. And likewise what are the new odds? Are they now one in 10 to the 100th power instead of on in ten to the 160th power?- both astronomical numbers still.
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
8:30 pm
Well, gotta run. No use waiting around for Jay to ever admit he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Right. I take the side of every serious biologist in the world, while Bruno posits some unknown “intelligence” hidden somewhere, and I’m the one who “doesn’t know what he’s talking about.”
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
April 23rd, 2012
8:31 pm
Sooth, that’s the one! I guess I can make it thru the week now. I can dream, can’t I?
josef
April 23rd, 2012
8:32 pm
St Simon’s
Scroll down to the top of p226
“it makes our head ach…”
http://books.google.com/books?id=1SQ0YG9ozB8C&pg=PA222&lpg=PA222&dq=chickasaw+letter+to+american+revolution&source=bl&ots=sxGZm_y6sq&sig=B1C4Dxda67MaxPXOEtU80v4SBfY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=JfOVT7z2Acaw6AHP_9nMDg&ved=0CDQQ6AE
JAY
Good one on Aaron..
BROSEPHUS
Got it….
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
8:33 pm
German Democratic Republic
That would make it like the USA of Europe, wouldn’t it.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
8:33 pm
I take the side of every serious biologist in the world, while Bruno posits some unknown “intelligence” hidden somewhere, and I’m the one who “doesn’t know what he’s talking about.”
Well, Jay, as soon as one of those “serious biologists” can explain how 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms can all work together in our bodies for one common cause without making any appeals to Universal Intelligence, then I’ll listen to what they have to say.
Gotta run, Newt’s on the line looking for some new Big Ideas for his campaign…….
Smeat
April 23rd, 2012
8:34 pm
Haj Mohammed Effendi Amin el-Husseini – Arabic: محمد أمين الحسيني
His opposition to the British peaked during the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine. In 1937, evading an arrest warrant, he fled Palestine and took refuge in, successively, the French Mandate of Lebanon and the Kingdom of Iraq, until he established himself in Italy and finally Germany. During World War II he actively collaborated with both Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, meeting Adolf Hitler personally and asking him to back Arab independence. He requested, as part of the Pan-Arab struggle, Hitler’s support to oppose the establishment in Palestine of a Jewish national home. He was promised the leadership of the Arabs after German troops had driven out the British.[4] He helped recruit Muslims for the Waffen-SS. At war’s end, he came under French protection, and managed to slip away to Cairo to avoid eventual prosecution.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
8:34 pm
“how 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms can all work together in our bodies”
And I bet you counted EVERY SINGLE ONE too!
josef
April 23rd, 2012
8:35 pm
And then there are those who CAN break the cardinal rule of the IMAN’s ’bout engaging self…do the term double standard mean anything? Hrrrumph…..
JAY
There WAS a left wing of the Nazis…Ernst Roehm, but look at what happened to him, eh?
Recon 0311 2533
April 23rd, 2012
8:37 pm
Blagojevich, says that he has three cell mates and he and his bunk buddy are very close and have bonded. Wonder if Patty has found a friend to bond with. Democrats seem to like bonding with each other. Is bonding a liberal fetish?
Smeat
April 23rd, 2012
8:37 pm
Iran — The language is called Farsi
In Farsi, Iran translates to “Aryan”
Thank goodness the Nazis were able to convince the leaders of Persia to change the name of their country to Iran…. Sieg Heil ????
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
8:39 pm
“Thank goodness the Nazis were able to convince the leaders of Persia to change the name of their country to Iran…. Sieg Heil ????”
What has always amazed me was that a small, dark haired and eyed man was able to convince pretty much a whole population that being tall, blond and blue eyed was the ideal. Did NO ONE every see that irony in that? (Is it irony I mean?)
josef
April 23rd, 2012
8:39 pm
DEL
Sorta like wide-stance, eh?
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
8:40 pm
Frog,
willard and our President agree on some issues.
We have to wait to see willard’s evolution to his new positions.
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
8:41 pm
Redneck: if you’re lucky maybe she’ll look over your “corn dog.”
ragnar danneskjold
April 23rd, 2012
8:41 pm
Dear Jay @ 5:25, the only thing hilarious here is your inability to justify leftism.
Your strongest argument is that “regulations expand under republicans, and that proves that regulation is thus the province of all overlords, including conservatives.” No leftist advocates eliminating regulations, and no leftist advocates eliminating agencies, and no leftist advocates cutting nonmilitary spending. Every conservative advocates eliminating regulations, and every conservative advocates eliminating agencies, and every conservative advocates cutting nonmilitary spending. Against that backdrop you affirm the those who would use the tools of government to micromanage business are, or can be, conservatives. Does that pass for intellectual insight on the left?
You are correct to affirm that I do not regard the stepfather of the Kennedy education bill as a conservative. I do not regard the stepfather of the Daschle agriculture bill as a conservative. I do not regard the head of a government that imposes steel tariffs as a conservative. I do not regard one who lobbied Congress for a bailout of Goldman Sachs as a conservative. Those are all the acts of a leftist. That every one of those policies is a failure is perhaps a point we can agree on; but only a conservative can affirm, with intellectual honesty, that the failures were foreseeable. As with the “Stimulus.” And as with “ObamaCare.” Same foolish anti-market theoretical basis as all of the foregoing.
I think it fair to note that leftists learned nothing from the agenda of Alfred Kahn – the deregulation of interstate shipping, the elimination of minimum airline ticket prices, the abolition of bank deposit rate interest regulations – all accomplished during the administration of Jimmy Carter. But conservatives, during the Reagan administration, advocated for the abolition of price controls on natural gas and then on gasoline, to the mournful wails of leftists affirming the end of the world amid “obscene profits” for the oil companies. (For the uninformed, those prices fell precipitously, below Carter-era prices, approx six months after the companies were freed from the government embrace, notably first enacted under Nixon.)
Even now we have a clueless president who affirms the rising oil prices reflect an absence of government control over “speculators,” whoever they are. Any competent analyst will tell you the “speculators” are betting with their own money against stupid government development and marketing policies – for an informed observer, they would be the canary in the coal mine. Regulations are dear to leftists, and poison to conservatives.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
8:41 pm
“We have to wait to see willard’s evolution to his new positions.”
I bet it won’t be scientific evolution though!
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
8:41 pm
Is bonding a liberal fetish?
Only when you use super glue.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
8:42 pm
“Only when you use super glue”
Beat me to it!
Recon 0311 2533
April 23rd, 2012
8:42 pm
East Germany did fall into step with communist Russia and became very much a part of the Soviet Block. I guess as former Nazi’s they felt aligned with their Soviet conquers.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
8:43 pm
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
8:23 pm
“I would certainly never say that all of Doom’s opinions are bunk. Not in the least.
I do, however, question his qualifications to referee this particular debate.”
As the self appointed referee I have to question your qualifications to enter into this debate!
Just messin with you Jay but seriously. Bruno’s logic and scientific and mathematics background has been demonstrated on here over and over. If you can’t recognize that his level of math and science understanding is advanced beyond yours, mine, and many of the others on here then I just don’t know what to say.
From what I’ve seen in his posts over the past year, the links he references regarding books, scientists, math and logic works, philosophers, concerning the areas of math and science are well beyond the scope of most others on here. I only say this now that he is gone cause I don’t want to be seen as tooting his horn for him. Doomy don’t like tooting anyone’s horn but his own.
And I don’t want to belittle you or doggone or anyone else but it just seems to me that his logic and in particular his grasp of science and math is well beyond that of you and most others on here. And I don’t mean that in an insulting manner either. Its more a credit to his background than a putdown of you, doggone, or anyone else on here.
godless heathen
April 23rd, 2012
8:43 pm
“I planted some plants.”
I celebrated Earth Day in the traditional manner. I mixed up a big batch of Round Up and sprayed a bunch of plants.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
8:44 pm
getalife
willard is tricky,
but i think our president
is trickier.
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
8:44 pm
What many people don’t realize is that Hitler’s original surname was Hiedler (a Jewish surname and, in fact, Hitler was Jewish) until he had it changed to Hitler.
Hitler had his home town used for artillery practice to wipe any evidence of his familial heritage from the face of the Earth.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
8:45 pm
“his grasp of science and math is well beyond that of you and most others on here”
Yep, WAY, WAY beyond. No argument. It’s just WAY out there.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
8:45 pm
DEL
East Germany was largely carved from Prussia and Prussia was probably the LEAST Nazi of the geopolitical divisions of the Third Reich.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
8:46 pm
Did NO ONE every see that irony in that? (Is it irony I mean?)
The bigger irony is that I think historians say his mother or grandmother I don’t remember which was Jewish.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
8:46 pm
del,
Did you forget the gop bondage club thingie?
Recon 0311 2533
April 23rd, 2012
8:47 pm
josef, not sure what that means. Is that jail house slang?
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
8:48 pm
Doggone/GA
I didn’t want to be belittling but I’m sorry. You’re just not in his league in matters of science or math from what I’ve seen. Look on the bright side though. I doubt he is in your league in dog psychology.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
8:48 pm
I do, however, question his qualifications to referee this particular debate.
I did not see where Thulsa addressed that question. State your qualifications, if you please.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
8:49 pm
“I didn’t want to be belittling but I’m sorry”
Why is your being sorry belittling to me? I wouldn’t argue that statement one bit.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
8:50 pm
josef,
Well ya learn something new everyday. I had the impression that Prussia was very pro-nazi. BTW maybe you can answer this. Was it Hitler’s mother or grandmother that was Jewish. If it was his mother doesn’t that in fact make him Jewish according to Jewish law?
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
8:50 pm
Methinks doomy is a tad biased.
Recon 0311 2533
April 23rd, 2012
8:51 pm
josef,
Didn’t Hitler have Prussian roots?
josef
April 23rd, 2012
8:52 pm
SOOTH
The original name was Schikelgruber (Heil, Schickelgruber just don’t have the same punch, do it!) and the “theory” that he had Jewish ancestry comes from the theory that his father was the illegitimate son of a Jewish father… here’s a pretty good synopsis of the theory
http://www.lloydthomas.org/1-IsraelTimeLine/7-1930-1999/hitler.html
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
8:54 pm
Didn’t Hitler have Prussian roots?
Only his hairdresser knows for sure.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 23rd, 2012
8:54 pm
Romans 1:18-33
“18 For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth, 19 since what can be known[o] about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse. 21 For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man, birds, four-footed animals, and reptiles.”
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
8:55 pm
Taxpayer,
Bruno simply asked me what I thought of the little debate he had going between himself, Jay, and doggone and others. It was on evolution and such.
Well naturally being a paragon of neutrality in the con lib debates I concluded that B made a lot more sense in his arguments. Seriously though his links and scientific references and logic simply made more sense to me. They usually do and that’s even when I take off my right wing tinted sunglasses.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
8:57 pm
“Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools”
Scout, that about sums it up.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
8:57 pm
“even when I take off my right wing tinted sunglasses.”
It’s not the sunglasses that are the problem. It’s the blinders.
Smeat
April 23rd, 2012
8:57 pm
Hitler was bad.
Mussolini was bad.
Hirohito was bad.
Stalin was bad.
Mao was bad.
FDR, the wannabe US dictator, and Churchill were the good guys…
My grandfather didn’t give a damn when he took a bullet in 1945.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
8:59 pm
Scout
No graven images.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
8:59 pm
Thulsa,
I inquired with regard to Jay’s question regarding your qualifications to referee said discussion. You still provided no qualifications.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
9:00 pm
scout- now tell me what that paragrapph you posted means…..
josef
April 23rd, 2012
9:01 pm
DEL
Wide stance? Sen. Larry Craig scandal…
Hitler had no Prussian roots…Austrian…
THULSA
See that 8:52 link to Sooth…
A lot of people do think Prussia was pro-Nazi…they were the heartland of the military aristocracy and because the military were coopted by the Nazis, it has been assumed that they, and ergo the Prussians, were pro-Nazi…Prussia was governed by a Social Democrat plurality in an anti-Nazi, anti-Communist coalition until 1932…
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
9:02 pm
That passage that scout has posted appears to be one dealing with idolatry. What you people been worshipping? The Geico Gecko?
Recon 0311 2533
April 23rd, 2012
9:04 pm
“Claiming to be wise, they became fools.”
Yes, that certainly does describe the American far-left.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 23rd, 2012
9:04 pm
If anyone can watch this in its entirety without realilzing their must be a Creator ………. then there is no help for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=fKyljukBE70
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
9:05 pm
Taxpayer
a barking frog?
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
9:05 pm
“No leftist advocates eliminating regulations, and no leftist advocates eliminating agencies, and no leftist advocates cutting nonmilitary spending.
So Ragnar, Obama is not a leftist? The things that you learn on this blog!
Argin
April 23rd, 2012
9:06 pm
Hitler’s fascist regime was totally based on Christianity. China has an atheist state, but it embraces Chinese traditions. You got to dig deeper to understand what Hitchens stood for. He always mentioned that he is not just against “your God”;as he would say, but he was against any kind of delusional actions, in many cases worshiping gods around the world. Having said that, having “faith” in a political or economic systems, especially in communist regimes, is no different than having “faith” in a super natural being. Name a religious government that takes care of its people? Now count the secular regimes that care about their people. His main problem with religion was faith in religious set of laws that destroy humanity and get into people’s private lives, yet there are no set of atheist rules.
Recon 0311 2533
April 23rd, 2012
9:06 pm
josef, thanks.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 23rd, 2012
9:08 pm
DebbieDoRight – A Do Right Woman:
If you study those verses and read on through that book you will discover that:
Mankind on his/her own automatically sinks eventually into depravity.
Even one sin separates you from a Holy God.
Christ took that separation on the cross as your substiute.
But only if you acknowledge and accept that free gift.
josef
April 23rd, 2012
9:09 pm
ARGIN
“Totally” based on…oy, Mate, you need to do some research…
josef
April 23rd, 2012
9:10 pm
Recon 0311 2533
April 23rd, 2012
9:04 pm
“Claiming to be wise, they became fools.”
Yes, that certainly does describe the American far-left.
*******
AND the far right…
Recon 0311 2533
April 23rd, 2012
9:13 pm
josef, yeah, but us middle right guy’s have got it right, right?
St Simons - he-ne-hah
April 23rd, 2012
9:16 pm
josef, good history – see? with us, a subtle dark humor in everything,
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
9:17 pm
scout, josef
how was mary impregnated?
Recon 0311 2533
April 23rd, 2012
9:17 pm
Y’all have a great evening. Some things to do and then Taps. out
Argin
April 23rd, 2012
9:17 pm
Josef,
I don’t see how collecting Christian artifacts to boost soldier’s delusional faith from around the world and calling out churches for recruitments is not part of “totally”. No need to say that Churches in Nazy Germany era used to celebrate Hitler’s birthday.
F. Sinkwich
April 23rd, 2012
9:19 pm
““I planted some plants.”
I celebrated Earth Day in the traditional manner. I mixed up a big batch of Round Up and sprayed a bunch of plants.”
I had it all planned out, but because of the poor marketing and promotional strategy by the eco-weenies among us, I forgot about this momentous event.
My planned commeration:
From 8:00 pm to 9:00 pm, I would have turned on every light in mt abode –all incandescent (no guvmint curly-Q bulbies for me!)
Then fire up the family truckster to idle in the driveway.
Turn on the clothes drier, then the dishwasher. Turn the AC down on the upper level; heat up on the lower. Turn the ovens on to 450 degrees in prep for a pizza.
This solemn occasion would have made me weepy.
*sniff*
josef
April 23rd, 2012
9:20 pm
St Simon’s
Them was some bad ass mo fo’s…Bring it on!
DEL
If and when y’all start accepting your natural allies in the middle left…but until then, y’all are both doomed to a repeat of the same ineffectiveness…and that’s coming from a far leftie…
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
9:20 pm
scout – it is one of Paul’s letters to the Romans. He’s speaking to them of how to live by faith and how God’s wisdom and purpose is “All.”
I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish. 15 That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are in Rome.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[e] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”[f]
josef
April 23rd, 2012
9:24 pm
frog
Not my religion, so I stay out of that one…
Argin
As I said, do a little reading…the whole Aryan thingie was based on neo-paganism…Hitler played the established religious institution like a harp, to be sure, but it was not ideological. It’s that use of “totally” I find questionable and simplistic…
F. Sinkwich
April 23rd, 2012
9:25 pm
““No leftist advocates eliminating regulations, and no leftist advocates eliminating agencies, and no leftist advocates cutting nonmilitary spending.
So Ragnar, Obama is not a leftist? The things that you learn on this blog!”
Jay made a funny.
He knows as all rational human beings on this planet that O’bozo is a euro-socialist Marxist who believes that only the federal government can cure all societal ills.
Silly Jay.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 23rd, 2012
9:26 pm
“Apparently, I’m supposed to be more outraged by what Mitt Romney does with his money
than by what Barack Obama does with mine.”
Author Unknown
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 23rd, 2012
9:28 pm
Debbie @ 9:20:
And I agree.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
9:29 pm
josef
too bad, the christians
consider themselves
the continuation of
judaism by following
the jewish messiah.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 23rd, 2012
9:30 pm
barking frog:
The Bible (N.T.) says it was a miracle by the power of the Holy Spirit.
If I believe God created the universe then I certainly do not have a problem with God in the flesh coming to this earth to die for our sins via a virgin birth.
Argin
April 23rd, 2012
9:31 pm
Sure the Aryan “thingie” played a role, still considering Hitler’s fascist state as atheist is just not true. I was trying to point out Church’s role in Nazy Germany, and please you do some research too.
St Simons - he-ne-hah
April 23rd, 2012
9:31 pm
…reading some of this other jibberish……
josef, you’ll know – wasn’t the swastika a religious symbol or something?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 23rd, 2012
9:31 pm
barking frog @ 9:29 :
That’s what Christ said.
Yours to accept …………. or not.
dbm
April 23rd, 2012
9:32 pm
Towncrier
April 23rd, 2012
5:37 pm
Once you understand what values are and why we need them, your questions will be answered. For a fuller explanation, please read The Virtue of Selfishness by Ayn Rand.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
9:33 pm
Scout
the holy spirit. i haven’t
read in a while.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
9:33 pm
“josef, you’ll know – wasn’t the swastika a religious symbol or something?”
It is a reversal of an Indian (East) Sanskrit symbol for peace and/or good luck
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 23rd, 2012
9:33 pm
barking frog:
John 14:
“6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would knowb my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
8Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.”
Argin
April 23rd, 2012
9:34 pm
Nazi*
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
9:34 pm
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
8:59 pm
Thulsa,
“I inquired with regard to Jay’s question regarding your qualifications to referee said discussion. You still provided no qualifications.”
Taxpayer,
Otay. Here’s my qualifications to be blog referee- Why am I qualified? Because I effing said so! You don’t like it? Tough! To the nonsense corner I now banish thee.
dbm
April 23rd, 2012
9:34 pm
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
5:38 pm
You misunderstand the nature of Libertarianism. Please read Capitalism, the Unknown Ideal by Ayn Rand.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 23rd, 2012
9:35 pm
barking frog:
God is a trinity just as you are. Three in one ………… Father, Son and Spirit.
The human mind cannot really comprehend it but you were made in that image which is a “type” of the trininty.
You are body, soul and spirit. Yet how many people are you ? ONE !
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
9:37 pm
Thulsa
I think you were as qualified
to referee as the debaters
were to debate..
Josef
April 23rd, 2012
9:38 pm
St Simon
It appears all around the world India Indians and American Indians alike…..
Argin
I will agree that it could not be considered an atheist state…indeed, civil registry of population continued to register by religious affiliation…
Jay
April 23rd, 2012
9:39 pm
“Thulsa
I think you were as qualified
to referee as the debaters
were to debate..”
That’s fair.
And good night all.
F. Sinkwich
April 23rd, 2012
9:40 pm
O’bozo 1:09
Give onto me all that is yours as I possess all wisdom to distribute your pieces of gold to those I deem more deserving.
Bow to me, I am the messiah as proven daily by the wisdom of the MSM.
I know what’s best for you.
Amen.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
9:41 pm
scout
my wife would argue ONE
too many..
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
9:41 pm
barking frog,
good one. Tee hee.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
9:48 pm
“Mankind on his/her own automatically sinks eventually into depravity”
Scout,
I’ve spent some time just thinking about that before. It does seem that the less Godly we became as a nation the more we sank to the level of the sewer. First abortion. Now pornography and smut everywhere. The open celebration and glorification of the sorriest people- from reality tv stars to misogynous rock and rap stars. And then there is the superficiality and violence on tv and in our pop culture in general. Pretty sorry, sewere culture that we keep sinking further into.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 23rd, 2012
9:53 pm
Thulsa:
I once saw an article (can’t find it now) where someone charted the encline and decline of our nation at least on moral terms. If I remember correctly, we peaked morally as a nation in 1962. That year the author stated was the year the Supreme Court took prayer out of our public schools. It’s been downhill ever since.
Our nation was not founded as a theocracy but it was founded on Judeo/Christian values that recognized God as Creator. As that is taken out ……….. a vaccum exist that must be replaced by something ………. and that something is becoming increasingly ugly.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 23rd, 2012
9:54 pm
barking frog:
“scout
my wife would argue ONE
too many..”
I hear you humor and understand it (believe me) but eternity is a serious thing.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
9:55 pm
Doom- abortion, pornography, et al. are not NEW to this century or to this time. and violence as entertainment has been going on since before the time of Christ. From The Roman Gladiators on down.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
9:56 pm
scout
eternity is reserved for
christians.
Smeat
April 23rd, 2012
9:57 pm
George Bernard Shaw in his own words —
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Mvqi-ZoAq8
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
9:59 pm
Scout,
Looking at it from purely secular terms the same also holds true but not just in terms of morality. A couple of recent books one in particular outlining the rise and fall of the roman empire and then comparing the likewise similar trends in the U.S. Some strikingly similar themes that seem to portend that we are on the downtrend and fast. The debt situation alone has the nation on a future collission course with chaos. Just as Nero while Rome burned Obama just seems to fiddle away while the nation edges ever closer and quicker to the cliff’s edge.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
9:59 pm
saw this in my inbox – you can always tell when its an election year….. before this i hadn’t heard from Old Tom for years…:
President’s Speech Highlights Lack of Plan
This past week, in a campaign speech before members of the press, President Obama criticized House Republican efforts to address our nation’s looming debt crisis. While we understand that the president disagrees with our positive path to pay off the debt and encourage economic growth and prosperity, it is troubling that he declined to offer a plan of his own to tackle the drivers of our debt. Nowhere in the president’s speech or in his own budget did he offer a credible set of solutions to avoid a predictable debt crisis. With trillion dollar annual deficits now the new normal under current economic and spending policies, America is fast approaching a fiscal cliff that will drown not only this generation but future generations in more debt, doubt, and despair.
House Republicans believe in a different future where America pays its debts and sees a renewal of prosperity grounded in the fundamental principles of free enterprise and economic opportunity for all.
suffice it to say, i got a good laugh out of this one!
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
10:03 pm
DebbieDo
Don’t you believe that?
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
10:05 pm
Frog- my 6 month old nephew doesn’t even believe that!!!
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:05 pm
“abortion, pornography, et al. are not NEW to this century or to this time.and violence as entertainment has been going on since before the time of Christ. From The Roman Gladiators on down.”
Debbidoright,
I understand all that and you have a point. My point is that it seems like we are saturated with it now. Porn, permissiveness, violence, etc. its everywhere you look in our society.And abortion on demand is a regular everyday and socially acceptable thing whereas there used to be a social stigma associated with it. No more. And it was never before quite like it is now. Well of course it was that way with the Romans on the way to their fall. And when in history was it so socially acceptable for women to just have babies out of wedlock left and right? And I’m not talking about just poor women but celebrities especially. It used to be socially scorned to do so. No more. And this is not good for those women nor for their children.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
10:11 pm
More lunacy– how did this guy get my email address:
Working toward true, comprehensive tax reform
As President Obama continues to promote his Buffett Rule gimmick, the House of Representatives is leading the way on true comprehensive tax reform – closing loopholes, lowering rates, broadening the base, and simplifying the code. Families and businesses all across the country wrote their check to Uncle Sam last week, calling attention to the need for reforms to the nation’s convoluted tax system. What the president has offered is little more than a political gimmick that will only take more money out of the economy. There is no credible economic or fiscal rationale for the president’s proposal.
Meanwhile, the nation’s economic recovery remains unacceptably slow. The engine of economic opportunity and job creation resides in the hard work and ingenuity of small businesses. Pro-growth tax reform to decrease the burden on our nation’s job creators and help them keep more money in the private economy is the best path forward for strong, lasting growth. This is why House Republicans remain committed to true tax reform that will provide relief for small businesses and all Americans.
For their part, the Democrat-led Senate continues to shirk its responsibility to even pass a budget while the president’s proposal relies on Washington taking more money out of hard-working taxpayers’ pockets to pay for ever-increasing federal spending. America needs a bold and responsible budget to tackle our debt crisis. Where the president and his colleagues in Washington refuse to lead, House Republicans will.
(sigh)
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 23rd, 2012
10:11 pm
barking frog:
“scout
eternity is reserved for
christians.”
That’s just the point.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:15 pm
“suffice it to say, i got a good laugh out of this one!”
Debbie,
What is it that you got a laugh out of? That we are on a direct path to financial ruin? And what did the Rs say in that speech that is not true?
Remember the debt ceiling fight? The Rs were doing fighting tooth and nail saying they wouldn’t raise the debt ceiling in order to get the Ds to actually take our burgeoning debt crisis seriously? And what happened? The Rs had to relent- they blinked.
And rather than being saddened over the Ds refusal to take our debt seriously the next day Jay did a column about the Rs blinking and the Ds winning the right to raise the debt ceiling. And the Ds all day long that day gloated over the victory of the Rs blinking over the debt issue and the Ds winning the right to continue runaway debt spending unabated. How can running the nation into a sea of debt be a victory?
It was nothing short of shocking seeing you guys gloat over running up more debt. It was more important to you guys to make Boehnner, Paul Ryan, and the Rs “blink” than to get serious on our financial woes. And that is a truly sad statement.
Sean
April 23rd, 2012
10:16 pm
I wonder how Hitler convinced the Lutheran and Catholic Germans to commit the holocaust. The Jews weren’t gassed because the were “Marxist/socialist”. It’s because they were JEWISH.
They were slaughtered by the CHRISTIAN Nazi’s. The Nazi Party collected the “church Tax” to fund the major churches of Germany at the time.
Pope Pius (who is about to become a saint) said what about the holocaust?
This is so self evident I am always stunned that this lesson is so easily forgotten. This column is embarrassing.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
10:17 pm
DebbieDo
Nixon solved all that crap
when he stopped trading
gold away. Cheney was
right when he said deficits
don’t matter. National debt
doesn’t either. All can be
paid with printed dollars.
Josef
April 23rd, 2012
10:19 pm
Since he’ll is for eternity, is it reserved for Christians, too?
And on that bit of EOI I’ll bid g’night..
Smeat
April 23rd, 2012
10:19 pm
What did Mr.Obama have to say in his own words during an interview aujourd’hui sujet de discussion ??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4EHmzslKLw
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 23rd, 2012
10:22 pm
josef @ 10:19
Yes ………. for those in name only.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:22 pm
“As President Obama continues to promote his Buffett Rule gimmick, the House of Representatives is leading the way on true comprehensive tax reform – closing loopholes, lowering rates, broadening the base, and simplifying the code”
There is nothing untrue about that statement. As for the Buffet rule being a gimmick how is that not true? 4 billion a year in extra revenue when we are running a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit. And people think that 4 billion is going to do something?
“Meanwhile, the nation’s economic recovery remains unacceptably slow’
True statement. This is the single weakest recovery from a recession since the great depression. And the reality is that the deeper the recession the stronger the recovery should be. This recovery is the lone exception to that rule.
“For their part, the Democrat-led Senate continues to shirk its responsibility to even pass a budget while the president’s proposal relies on Washington taking more money out of hard-working taxpayers’ pockets to pay for ever-increasing federal spending.”
Totally true statement. The dem senate just lets every bill from the house die in it and as for the president’s budget and spending I think we are now spending 23% of the nation’s GDP when we have historically been spending 18% of GDP. Again how is this untrue?
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
10:23 pm
Doom: And abortion on demand is a regular everyday and socially acceptable thing whereas there used to be a social stigma associated with it. No more. And it was never before quite like it is now. Well of course it was that way with the Romans on the way to their fall. And when in history was it so socially acceptable for women to just have babies out of wedlock left and right? And I’m not talking about just poor women but celebrities especially. It used to be socially scorned to do so. No more. And this is not good for those women nor for their children
“Abortion On Demand” – You sound like a republican political soundbite. Doom- my feelings is that everyone’s soul is their own business. Not mine nor yours. If what they’re doing is not illegal then put down your stones.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:26 pm
Thulsa,
In other words, you got nothing. I effing thought so.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
10:28 pm
Smeat
Seems Obama is first
black and first marxist.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:29 pm
Totally true statement. The dem senate just lets every bill from the house die in it and as for the president’s budget and spending I think we are now spending 23% of the nation’s GDP when we have historically been spending 18% of GDP. Again how is this untrue?
You got a linkee to back up those numbers, Thulsa.
Smeat
April 23rd, 2012
10:30 pm
And this one is for *md* who advocated on another bloggist’s page that it would be appropriate for the federal government to squash assembly, dissent and all speech for the “common good” by any means necessary… You’ll be fine as long as you’re a loyal party member and inform on your neighbors to get an extra bottle of guvmint cheez liquor and free healthcare…….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOCfqZm2GLU
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:31 pm
“Abortion On Demand” – You sound like a republican political soundbite”
Rather than just saying I sound like a soundbite just let me know if this is true or not. To my knowledge there is little if anything in stopping a woman from getting an abortion inside of 24 weeks. Am I wrong?
And I never said I believed in stoning them. Not gonna do it. I know women who’ve gone through what has got to be a terribly wrenching decision. I do not look down on them or judge them. Believe it or not I actually have more sympathy for them for having to make such a painful decision.
“If what they’re doing is not illegal then put down your stones.”
Debbie we should all be thankful that northern abolitionists didn’t listen to the argument to now worry about what someone is doing if its not illegal.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
10:33 pm
St Simons – he-ne-hah
April 23rd, 2012
9:31 pm
…reading some of this other jibberish……
josef, you’ll know – wasn’t the swastika a religious symbol or something?
__________
I like that. Well put. Or something is pretty broad. Yes, or something it is.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
10:34 pm
“”The war on terror is over,” a senior official in the State Department official tells the National Journal. “Now that we have killed most of al Qaida, now that people have come to see legitimate means of expression, people who once might have gone into al Qaida see an opportunity for a legitimate Islamism.” WS
Another huge accomplishment.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
10:35 pm
Doom – really? OK – let’s break it down for you.
With trillion dollar annual deficits now the new normal under current economic and spending policies, America is fast approaching a fiscal cliff that will drown not only this generation but future generations in more debt, doubt, and despair
That’s really funny because Republicans are the ones who repealed the “Pay As You Go” law and then when the Dems won house back in 2006 and voted it back in, it was the Republicans who bitched the loudest. (See Below—remember THIS?)
Day Two: House passes new budget rules
Democrats push to increase spending only with cuts in other funding
WASHINGTON — The House has voted to reinstate budget rules designed to curb the budget deficit.
The vote was 280-to-154 to reinstate the so-called “pay as you go” rule. It requires that any increase in entitlement spending or tax cut be somehow offset so as to not to increase the deficit.
Budget hawks say the move is a good first step toward restoring fiscal discipline. But the changes could bedevil efforts to appease middle-class voters later.
The House has also approved a Democratic proposal that requires lawmakers to publicly disclose their pet projects, or “earmarks.”
Another rule change would curb past abuses in which GOP leaders held votes open for hours and excluded minority party lawmakers from House-Senate negotiations on the language of final bills sent to the for enactment.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
10:35 pm
Otay. Here’s my qualifications to be blog referee- Why am I qualified? Because I effing said so! You don’t like it? Tough! To the nonsense corner I now banish thee.
_________________
Another articulate blogger. Well said.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:38 pm
“Between 2001 and 2010, spending increased by 5.6% GDP (from 18.2% GDP in 2001 to 23.8% GDP in 2010),”
Taxpayer.
I apologize. You got me. I was wrong. I should have stated 24% of GDP instead of 23 since 23.8 is closer to 24%. My apologies. I’m even more right than I realized. A linkee? Why yes. I do. But only if you believe wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget
B
O
O
M
!
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:38 pm
Oscar,
Don’t you start effing saying so too!
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
10:39 pm
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:38 pm
_____
We seem to have a lot of self appointed referees on here. Come one come all.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:40 pm
Oscar,
I have to tailor my blog responses to my the intellect of my audience. And when he repeatedly asks a really dumb question he’s going to get a response befitting the question.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:41 pm
Economist Paul Krugman summarized these causes in May 2011: “What happened to the budget surplus the federal government had in 2000? The answer is, three main things. First, there were the Bush tax cuts, which added roughly $2 trillion to the national debt over the last decade. Second, there were the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which added an additional $1.1 trillion or so. And third was the Great Recession, which led both to a collapse in revenue and to a sharp rise in spending on unemployment insurance and other safety-net programs.”[62
Per your linkee, Doom. I’m good with that.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:42 pm
Thulsa does indeed tailor his comments to his intellect and it shows.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:42 pm
Oscar,
And btw I did not appoint myself blog referee. Somebody else did in jest in asking me to weigh in on a debate. TP is just mad that nobody asks his opinion. And why would they given his level of discourse- or rather glaring lack thereof?
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
10:42 pm
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:40 pm
____
No critism here. I totally agree. (I didn’t read further back to see what was said)
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:43 pm
Oscar,
Didn’t you get the word. Anyone can be an effing referee. Just ask Thulsa. He’ll tell ya.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
10:43 pm
criticism??
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:44 pm
Actually Thulsa is just mad that I asked for his qualifications and it showed in his effing response.
Smeat
April 23rd, 2012
10:45 pm
Dear getalife — You really need to get a life…
Your post verbatim, ““”The war on terror is over,” a senior official in the State Department official tells the National Journal. “Now that we have killed most of al Qaida, now that people have come to see legitimate means of expression, people who once might have gone into al Qaida see an opportunity for a legitimate Islamism.” WS
Another huge accomplishment.”
Uhhhhhhhhhh
A senior official at the State Department sez…. You should take notice that this person is not named and doesn’t reveal their identity… Iz this the new Linda Lovelace Wannebe ??
That means he’s chicken to go on the record and it may very well be barroom bs and/or rumor…
Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.
Rumor is the name of Demi Moore and Bruce Willis’s daughter….
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:45 pm
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:42 pm
“Thulsa does indeed tailor his comments to his intellect and it shows.”
Reading comprehension TP. I tailor my comments to the intellect of my audience. And you being part of my admiring audience deserved the measured response that your irrelevant question warranted.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
10:45 pm
Just taking a break between “Swing Kids” which was a movie about creeping Nazis – I have seen it before but it is appropriate to today’s dicussion. Good movie I would recommend. – and Cheasa Lately and Letterman.
I watch Letterman to keep up with what Mitt is doing.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
10:46 pm
Doom: Rather than just saying I sound like a soundbite just let me know if this is true or not. To my knowledge there is little if anything in stopping a woman from getting an abortion inside of 24 weeks. Am I wrong?
Yes you are. Have you NOT been seeing/noticing/recognizing the war the republican party has been making on women’s reproductive rights? Did you NOT notice that states have been making it harder and harder for women, EVEN women who have been raped or are victims of incest, to receive abortions?
Believe it or not I actually have more sympathy for them for having to make such a painful decision.
NOT.
Debbie we should all be thankful that northern abolitionists didn’t listen to the argument to now worry about what someone is doing if its not illegal
OMG – not the slave thing again! Why is it that everytime you talk to me you bring up slavery. It’s like your ultimate “Gotcha Race Card”. Do you bring up slavery because I’m black? I don’t get it. On one hand you say, “Blacks shouldn’t live in the past!! There’s no more slavery!!”; then on the other hand when you want to “win” a point with me you bring up slavery! It’s like that commercial — You put that sh##t on everything!
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:46 pm
Reading comprehension, Thulsa. You tailor your comments based on your abilities and it shows.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:49 pm
The road to serfdom is paved with good intentions
Think, liberals
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:51 pm
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:44 pm
“Actually Thulsa is just mad that I asked for his qualifications and it showed in his effing response.”
No TP. You don’t garner enough respect for me to be mad at you. I just gave a measured retort to your rather asinine question.
The point is that there is no qualification to be “blog referree”. Being “blog ref” is just a facetious statement. Apparently that is above your meager and rather limited comprehension capability. And hence you get all serious about what is essentially kind of a joke and start asking repeatedly about “blog ref” qualifications as if its a real damn job or something. Get a clue dude.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:51 pm
Think liberal
It’s liberating.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:51 pm
The “war on women” gets played by both sides
It is a distraction from the important issues of the day
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:52 pm
Look at Doom, Still carrying on. You too easy. Now where are those effing qualifications.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:53 pm
Am kore worried about sluts or the deficit?
Um. The deficit.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
10:53 pm
Jm
Serf’s up..
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:53 pm
Whoops
“am I more…”
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:54 pm
Actually, the right wing nuts at FOX only play the “war on conservative women” card. They dismiss the notion that there is a “war on women”.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:54 pm
Frog
Was watching “step into liquid” yesterday
Good movie
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:55 pm
Frog
Riding giants is better tho
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
10:56 pm
The “war on women” gets played by both sides
It is a distraction from the important issues of the day
How insulting. Women aren’t important? After all they make up HALF of the population, and without them, there would be no MORE population. we will remember how you really feel about women republicans at the polls.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:56 pm
Jay is THE blog referee, Thulsa. Surely you realize that. His say is final.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
10:57 pm
Jm
will there be serf boards?
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
10:57 pm
I did some reading on the Nazi swastika. Hitler chose it and desiged the flag.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:58 pm
DDR
I see reading comprehension on this blog has not improved
Of course women are important silly
When abortion rights are actually at risk at the national level, you can call me
Until then I care most about the giant damn deficit
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:59 pm
Frog
Serf boards…. The inquisition?
Oscar, I have a funny story about the nazi flag
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:00 pm
“Have you NOT been seeing/noticing/recognizing the war the republican party has been making on women’s reproductive rights?”
OMG you fell for that Debbie? A 31 year old woman goes to Congress to complain about other Georgetown law students not getting their birth control paid for by insurance or other sources. And you folks make this gigantic leap that this now constitutes a war on women? Are you kidding me? Carl Lewis couldn’t make that big a leap in his gold medal long jump. Put away the bumper sticker “war on women” sloganeering Debbie. You’re better than that.
As for the states trying to make it harder that’s true in some cases like Virginia for example. So what. That’s not a “war on women”. Republicans have opposed abortion on moral grounds forever it seems. So why is there all of a sudden this “war on women”?
“OMG – not the slave thing again!”
Nope to the rest of your statement. I just bring it up because it shows the glaring weakness of your argument- that just because something is legal that its right or moral or good. You being black has nothing to do with it. If you were white I would still use the same argument. And I notice that you really have no logical retort to it other than to get mad over the fact that I brought it up.
“It’s like that commercial —You put that sh##t on everything!”
I know it wasn’t your intent but now you got me laughing and a rolling.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:00 pm
I have to tailor my blog responses to my the intellect of my audience. And when he repeatedly asks a really dumb question he’s going to get a response befitting the question.
TD–Do you ever get the feeling that some folks here take the blog waaaay too seriously??
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:00 pm
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:58 pm
——————-
Quit worrying about the deficit. The folks that should be worried are the chinese and the other states that own our debts and hold our cash. When we start printing money their holdings will be worth less.
Just get ready for the inflation and make sure you invest in something inflation proof.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
11:01 pm
Jm,
How about that deficit reduction in Paul Ryan’s plan. How much does it lower the national debt in ten years. Does it lower it a measly trivial 4 billion per year.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:03 pm
worth less.
In case anyone bothered to read my comment above, I meand worth not as much. Did not inadverdently add a space while trying to type the word “worthless.”
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:05 pm
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
11:01 pm
____
The trouble with trying to reduce the deficit to fast, the cure would be worse than the disease. Has to be dealth with slowly.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:05 pm
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:56 pm
Jay is THE blog referee, Thulsa. Surely you realize that. His say is final.
Taxpayer,
Nope. Jay is the blog sheriff and also the IMAM according to josef. I have been annointed as the new blog referee. I even signed a contract with the AJC appointing me as such and I will now receive a monthly stipend and expense account. You’re just going to have to deal with it TP.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
11:06 pm
it’s late but I’d LOVE to talk to you and Jm about women’s reproductive rights and the attack by the GOP to put us back into the kitchen. preferably barefoot and pregnant.
however, I have a flight out early tomorrow a.m. with a grueling day ahead with another flight back here in the p.m.
some other time gents, I’d love to debate you on the issue. but now, I gotta get some sleep. later gents.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:06 pm
Oscar
There isn’t a really good hedge against inflation. They all have flaws
Taxpayer
It tackles the spending problem. That is the hardest challenge. After that, I’m up for considering tax increases via deduction elimination
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:07 pm
Just get ready for the inflation and make sure you invest in something inflation proof.
In case you didn’t know, Oscar, inflation hurts those on a fixed income the most. So, are you advocating that we pay our debts down on the backs of the most vulnerable??
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:08 pm
Oscar,
We all get it. We all do the typo thing constantly when typing fast. In regards to the deficit I do agree with you. It has to be done slowly. Slashing everything overnight would be a shock to the system. But slashing the deficit and balancing the budget over say 10 years would assure the markets and restore our growth and begin to restore the value of the dollar.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
11:08 pm
I will now receive a monthly stipend and expense account.
I think Jay would say not to worry. Check’s in the mail covering your full value. I can deal with that.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:09 pm
Anyone here know who Jim Williams is?
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:09 pm
Debbiedoright,
Have a good night and get your rest so that you can give us hell tomorrow.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:10 pm
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:08 pm
_______
I agree. Ten years sounds about right.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:10 pm
I’d LOVE to talk to you and Jm about women’s reproductive rights and the attack by the GOP to put us back into the kitchen. preferably barefoot and pregnant.
Pretty scary to peer into the mind of a Lib……..Now, because women are forced to make their heart-rendering decision to abort within 5 months instead of 6, we want them barefoot and pregnant. Brilliant logic there, Deb.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:10 pm
Doom 11:08 ditto
U can’t wait until it is too late
It must begin now, gradually, but predictably and solidly
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:11 pm
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:09 pm
_____
I don’t guess you are referring to my fraternity brother back in college. He lives in Arkansas now.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:11 pm
Taxpayer,
Car allowance, corporate jet, 6 weeks paid vacation, full medical, etc. Its a nice gig. Too bad you didn’t get the gig.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
11:13 pm
Jm,
For the fun of it, let’s assume that Paul’s plan actually addressed the spending problem that some claim we must be solely focused on. How much is spending reduced per year under Ryan’s plan and how does that reduced spending translate into the elimination of the deficit and ultimately, the paydown of the debt. And how does that compare to plans offered by others such as the bipartisan deficit reduction committee.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:14 pm
Jm
Midnigh in the Garden of Good and Evil Jim Williams?
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:14 pm
Oscar
No
He was the guy played by Kevin spacey in midnight in the garden of good and evil
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:14 pm
Oscar yep
So here’s the story:
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:15 pm
Oscar and Jm,
Good grief. I know its only a blog but if we can come to a common sense consensus on that amongst party lines then it would seem the 2 parties could do the same- I think Jm is a moderate who voted for O but is leaning con, Oscar I think leans Dem but I’m not sure, I lean politics to the right of Attila the Hun.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:16 pm
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:14 pm
_______
Right. My friend google helped me remember. But why are you bringing him up.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:16 pm
Hollywood studio is making a civil war era film down in savannah…
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
11:16 pm
Car allowance, corporate jet, 6 weeks paid vacation, full medical, etc. Its a nice gig. Too bad you didn’t get the gig.
Sounds like the one I retired from. I don’t miss the jet lag from those cross country trips though. Now I get 52 weeks paid vacation, i.e., a pension and medical. It’s a nice gig too but obviously not for everyone.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:17 pm
Studio decides the park in front of Jim’s house is perfect, with Jim’s house as a backdrop cause it’s so quintessentially southern….
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:17 pm
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:15 pm
_____
My leaning tends to change back and forth as the wind changes. LIke Reagan said I don’t leave them, but I change when they leave me.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:18 pm
Studio doesn’t ask Jim for permission to use his house. Jim is a bit sensitive about these things. Being an antiques dealer and all….
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:19 pm
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:17 pm
_______
I have seen that house. It is a nice block in Savannah. I thinkg Johnny Mercer and his family lived there once.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:19 pm
JamVet–If you poke your head in, I got the tix for us for Thursday night. Should be a fun show.
Here’s a killer Bowie cover that PB put up on Friday night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA6NIjK5bTw&feature=youtu.be
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:20 pm
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:18 pm
________
You need go no further. I now remember the story. It’s a good one.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:21 pm
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:41 pm
“Economist Paul Krugman summarized these causes in May 2011:”
And then I stopped reading. Of course it is always cute when some lib trys to present Paul Krugman as an unbiased economist. it just doesnt git any funnier.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:21 pm
And on the day of the filming, the studio did not notice —–
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:21 pm
Jim, being an antiques dealer, goes up to his trove of stuff, rummages around, and finds the perfect solution: a full size giant nazi flag which he promptly flies from the top of his front porch.
Which makes a civil war era film a bit complex to correct, pre digital editing
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:23 pm
Rriend of mine lived in Savannah at the time and knew Jim. She said Spacy nailed Jim just right in the movie.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
11:23 pm
And then I stopped reading. Of course it is always cute when some lib trys to present Paul Krugman as an unbiased economist. it just doesnt git any funnier
It was the next paragraph from your very on wiki citation. I’m surprised you did not read even that far. Then again…
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:24 pm
Oscar
Everyone in downtown savannah noticed
Jim lived across from a synagogue
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:25 pm
Allright, taps for Doomy and a good night to all. And of course I leave with a nice little ode to the chihuahua for continuing to amuse me this evening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATPi3VQsEv0
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:26 pm
Oscar
I only ran into him as a kid every so often
Hardly remember him…..
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:27 pm
Some King Crimson for any cool people still hanging out. TP is excused from listening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlNantlznCA
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:29 pm
Now joe odom I remember….
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:31 pm
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:26 pm
_________
Strange guy. Anyone ever find out what really happened?
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:32 pm
If Atlanta was as nice as savannah, heck, no one would ever leave
And no one would care what their income was either
Atlanta is where people go to make a living, and then get the heck out….
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:32 pm
Oscar
Jim shot him, no real mystery
Just sloppy justice
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:34 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kVNl-9cS9c&feature=related
Said the straight man to the late man
Where have you been
I’ve been here and I’ve been there
And I’ve been in between.
I talk to the wind
My words are all carried away
I talk to the wind
The wind does not hear
The wind cannot hear.
I’m on the outside looking inside
What do I see
Much confusion, disillusion
All around me.
You don’t possess me
Don’t impress me
Just upset my mind
Can’t instruct me or conduct me
Just use up my time
I talk to the wind
My words are all carried away
I talk to the wind
The wind does not hear
The wind cannot hear.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:35 pm
Building a city at the end of a set f railroad tracks means Atlanta is severely under endowed w ith respect to natural wonders and recreational opportunities…..
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:36 pm
Savannah is a good town. Been there a lot over the years.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:37 pm
Stone Mountain? Used to climb it every fouth of July. Hot and good exercise.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:39 pm
Sherman got only one thing “right”…..
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:40 pm
Stone mountain is fun.
Too bad Marta trains don’t go there…..
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:42 pm
Moonchild/The Dream/The Illusion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IJs8KvlYU8&feature=relmfu
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:45 pm
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:39 pm
______
Ok, I’ll bite. What did Sherman get right. Oh, he didn’t burn Savannah. Presented it to Lincoln as a Christmas present.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:47 pm
Oscar 11:45
bingo…..
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:50 pm
A small point of History that many seem to overlook is that Atlanta had only about 10,000 residents at the time of Sherman’s March. Not minimizing the carnage, but it wasn’t on the scale that we might imagine if it happened in modern times.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:53 pm
“Confusion will be my Epitaph”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiJy2GT_fBQ&feature=relmfu
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
11:55 pm
Hitchens in later life did not associate with the right or left but his continuum throughout was anti totalitarianism.
Hitler incidentally was a Roman Catholic. Refer to Mein Kampf as god’s will and the German army belt buckles for evidence. The Pope or the Catholic Church never denounced the extermination of the so-called Jewish Jesus killers at the time.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:56 pm
Bruno, you don’t say….
I felt sure he took out the Cobb galleria, north point mall, and spaghetti junction in their earlier incarnations
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:57 pm
It was kind of a big deal to the 10,000 that lived there at the time.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:59 pm
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
11:55 pm
++++++
Maybe a crazy Roman Catholic. Don’t suppose he went to Mass and confessional very often.
Jm
April 24th, 2012
12:01 am
From a military standpoint Sherman did what he had to to win
But it was brutal and…. Uncivilized. War always is tho. Civil war my butt….
Oscar
April 24th, 2012
12:02 am
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
11:55 pm
______
I think you are right in that he had some sort of belief in god.
Oscar
April 24th, 2012
12:02 am
Sherman said war is hell. He was right about that.
Smeat
April 24th, 2012
12:05 am
The United States of America detonated at least 216 nuclear weapons in the atmosphere from the 40’s to the early 60’s.
The Russians are said to have performed a few more than the USA.
France blew up 40 of them.
Britain exploded more than 30.
All of these explosions occurred above ground and in our atmosphere.
We’re still here… Maybe the earth is more resilient than the Moonbat Climate Paranoid Granola Eaters have to offer….
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Tests/index.html
Paul
April 24th, 2012
12:05 am
Going to Mass and confessional didn’t change the Spanish Inquisitors either!
Jm
April 24th, 2012
12:07 am
Oscar 12:02 yes he did and he was right
It’s midnight, I’m out
Tom Middleton
April 24th, 2012
12:11 am
Jay, if I remember correctly from political science, Hitler’s totalitarian state and Stalin’s turned out to be basically one and the same, even though each came from an opposing side of the political coin.
It’s an argument that resolutely can’t be won when viewed from one side or the other, but in Hitchen’s case, it must have been fun to try while getting drunk!
Tom Middleton
April 24th, 2012
12:13 am
Sorry, make that “HItchens’.”
Bruno
April 24th, 2012
12:20 am
It sure would be nice if someone could take out that POS in North Korea.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/north-korea-issues-unusually-specific-threat-152720861.html
One of these days I’ll figure out why we put up with this clown.
getalife
April 24th, 2012
12:26 am
There is a new leader in nk and they are warmongering.
I hope he does not do anything stupid.
Smeat
April 24th, 2012
12:34 am
Bruno,
Japan has the bomb but nobody will admit this fact. China and Japan have a long history of ugly warfare.
North Korea knows about the Japanese Bomb also.
The drunken man-child in Pyongyang is an untouchable lunatic capable of decisions that we in the modern world can not understand.
Our 50,000 troops in South Korea on the DMZ are bullet magnets if those wingnuts from the North decide to send 1,000,000 brainwashed aholes with AK-47s across the lines…
Why can’t our Stuxnet virus eff them up like in Iran ??.
zengardener
April 24th, 2012
3:39 am
Nobody ever ruled in the name of atheism. No country or tribe ever lived by the concept that there is no god.
Such an idea is nonsense.
There have been secular governments that were Tyrannical, and even hostile to religions, but do not be confused. Those murderous dictators had an agenda that was not truly in the interests of the populace. That is why they were terrible, not because they lacked or exhibited an excessive amount of religiosity.
They were terrible because they sacrificed humanity, something the theocracies are not immune to. And that is being generous.
Dave
April 24th, 2012
4:32 am
Once again you perpetuate the old myth that the Third Reich was secular and atheistic. It wasn’t. It was undeniably Christian in nature. Hitler was a Catholic and never excommunicated. Christmas was celebrated. Army belt buckles had “God is with us” stamped on them.
Do these read like the words of an atheist?
“We don’t ask the Almighty, ‘Lord, make us free!” We want to be active, to work, to work together, so that when the hour comes that we appear before the Lord we can say to him: ‘Lord, you see that we have changed.’ The German people is no longer a people of dishonor and shame, of self-destructiveness and cowardice. No, Lord, the German people is once more strong in spirit, strong in determination, strong in the willingness to bear every sacrifice. Lord, now bless our battle and our freedom, and therefore our German people and fatherland. “
Sighko Sis
April 24th, 2012
6:19 am
It seems that if Hitchens is intellectually lazy to consider the regimes of Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, etc., to be de facto religious in nature, then it is equally intellectually lazy to ignore the obvious conclusion that religion is no predictor of good or evil. Certainly a person’s claim of adherence to a particular religion, or the denial of any religion, tells me nothing about that person.
Jay
April 24th, 2012
6:54 am
“… it is equally intellectually lazy to ignore the obvious conclusion that religion is no predictor of good or evil. Certainly a person’s claim of adherence to a particular religion, or the denial of any religion, tells me nothing about that person.”
Agreed.
Jm
April 24th, 2012
7:05 am
Are there bad Buddhists? Those guys seem pretty chill to me….
Jm
April 24th, 2012
7:08 am
I’m sure there are bad Buddhists out there
I’m talking on a crusades – nazi scale…..
Jm
April 24th, 2012
7:16 am
Everyone should read this, given we all eat food and Dow is about to make a big move
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/24/us-usa-food-24-d-idUSBRE83N04I20120424
stevie ray...Clowns to the Left and Jokers to the Right..here I am...
April 24th, 2012
7:20 am
Jay,
I read where German soldiers were issued 2 books to carry…the bible and “Thus Spoke Zaranthustra” by my pal Nietzche….Religious was selectively used by German leaders…I am of the opinion I share with Bertrand Russell that religion brought us two valuable things..a calendar and accurate moon charts other than that, I see negative value in 1000’s of years or retarding social and interpersonal evolution. Their position on sex is deplorable and the concept of heaven and hell are equally harmful…I liked Hitchens and others who, rightly or wrongly had courage to publish opinions here to for suppressed by those with invisible pals..
Jm
April 24th, 2012
7:27 am
Stevie ray
Narrow minded. And a rather incoherent post. Sprinkled with some conspiracy theory….
Mick
April 24th, 2012
7:31 am
Where does religion go from here? Christianity waning as islam keeps adding? Will there be a catholic church 100 years from now? Not unless they let priests marry, still the dinosaur seems to be lumbering toward extinction. It doesn’t really concern me as much as it used to. Before columbus and the european invasion, the america’s were doing just fine without the knowledge of christianity or any religion for that matter. They were pure, had their only beliefs and rituals. They were not perfect, humanity wasn’t designed for perfection, just the pursuit of it…
stands for decibels
April 24th, 2012
7:35 am
I’m sure there are bad Buddhists out there
I’m talking on a crusades – nazi scale…
not unless you manage to make a Goldbergian leap and try to link Pol Pot to Buddhism, methinks.
stands for decibels
April 24th, 2012
7:52 am
What kind of weird belief system elevates Jonah G. to prophet status, anyway?
What are their adherents called… Pantloadians?
stevie ray...Clowns to the Left and Jokers to the Right..here I am...
April 24th, 2012
7:56 am
JM if you have questions or want to otherwise expound on your response please do so…Bertrand Russell’s “Why I am not a Christian” may be a good place to start if you question my statements…Your opinion of me is none of my business but as a student of philosophy for 30 years or so, I’d submit I’m anything but narrow minded.
Mick
April 24th, 2012
7:57 am
Another day in paradise going on….58 degrees, sunny in miami…one could only wish that was the morning temp everyday…warms up to the low 70’s by noon, this is winters last gasp…
carlosgvv
April 24th, 2012
8:08 am
Smeat – 12:05
Those large numbers of above ground nuclear explosions have resulted in all of us now having far above normal amounts of Strontium-90 in our bones. The long-term health effects of this are unclear.
So much scientific knowledge is now available.
So few here know anything about science.
They BOTH suck
April 24th, 2012
8:14 am
Bruno…….. Good morning.
This from yesterday
“Think about it objectively for a minute.”
I have thought about it was before this discussion and based on this blog alone, I can’t see where you “objectively” conclude it is just a Dem or liberal thing in regards to racism. We wont even go into statements and actions made by conservative individuals
As you have noticed I have not attempted to say it doesn’t occur on the left, however it occurs on all sides and working to get you to “think about it objectively for a minute.”
Jm
April 24th, 2012
8:15 am
Stevie ray
If your thoughts were clearly articulated I might consider it
Jm
April 24th, 2012
8:16 am
Mick
It is ridiculously nice in S FL
Mick
April 24th, 2012
8:22 am
jm
Yes, this is the kind of day that you would want to skip out on work and do something with it outside – the beach, the keys, the everglades. Alas, I won’t be able to break away today but when I get off, there will still be some time to revel in it…
barking frog
April 24th, 2012
8:23 am
The King and the Priest
have been required to
get people to accept
government. The Priest
has been partially
replaced by popularly
elected boards.
Peadawg
April 24th, 2012
8:24 am
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/poor-economy-worsens-social-securitys-175251926.html
And all the Democrats do is spout crap like the GOP wants to throw Granny off the cliff. Kind of sad, actually.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
April 24th, 2012
8:26 am
Peadawg
Yep, it’s sad that they do want to do that.
You’re coming around kiddo
barking frog
April 24th, 2012
8:26 am
Communism has been
replaced as the bogeyman
by the “debt”.
JamVet
April 24th, 2012
8:29 am
what about the brutal excesses of secular, atheistic regimes, such as…Hitler’s Third Reich
I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2
Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5
I had so often sung ‘Deutschland über Alles’ and shouted ‘Heil’ at the top of my lungs, that it seemed to me almost a belated act of grace to be allowed to stand as a witness in the divine court of the eternal judge and proclaim the sincerity of this conviction.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5
Once again the songs of the fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord’s grace smiled on His ungrateful children.
- Adolf Hitler reflecting on World War I, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 7
Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1
It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but the time will come when man will again bow down before a higher god.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2
There are man. many. many more. The man had little clue as to what he was talking about.
The Fuhrer was another religious nut who committed his crimes with what he thought were the blessings of his god.
Sounds very familiar, huh?
Peadawg
April 24th, 2012
8:30 am
So, you choose to do nothing, Granny, to help people under 65 or 55? You got your benefits, screw your kids, right? THAT is what’s sad.
Jm
April 24th, 2012
8:31 am
Frog
Yep debt is the red menace
Only it’s not a bogeyman, it’s real
JamVet
April 24th, 2012
8:31 am
There are man. many. many more. The man had little clue as to what he was talking about.
Redact to read, There are many, many, many more. The man had little clue as to what he was talking about.
The man being Hitchens…
“We demand freedom for all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or conflict with the customs and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the standpoint of a positive Christianity, without owing itself to a particular confession….”
- Article 20 of the program of the German Workers’ Party (later named the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, NSDAP)
I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.
- Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941
….the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.
- Adolf Hitler (following the position of Martin Luther), Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. …Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. …
- Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922
Jm
April 24th, 2012
8:33 am
Mick
I’m sitting over the intracoastal. At the moment.
Drawbridge…
Might have to be a long lunch day
stands for decibels
April 24th, 2012
8:34 am
And all the Democrats do is spout crap like the GOP wants to throw Granny off the cliff.
Please read and learn before, um, spouting.
http://strengthensocialsecurity.org/
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
April 24th, 2012
8:36 am
Peadawg
Don’t be silly. Your spin is simply ridiculous.
There are several very viable and fair options to resolving the issue.
Starting with raising the cap.
Do you know what that means?
barking frog
April 24th, 2012
8:38 am
Democrats want SS and
Medicare in the general
fund with SSI and Medicaid.
Republicans want all
privatized.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
April 24th, 2012
8:39 am
stands
he’s young and does that often, but we have seem him come around….
our young padawan can learn.
Peadawg
April 24th, 2012
8:42 am
“Starting with raising the cap.” – I’m fine with that. But all I hear on this issue in Obama’s speeches is the GOP is trying to throw Granny off the cliff (i.e. more rhetoric, which doesn’t do sh*t to solve the problem).
carlosgvv
April 24th, 2012
8:44 am
Christianity was just one of the tools Hitler used to attain power. For Stalin, Communism was the tool available to him to get and keep absolute power.
If the vast majority of Americans suddenly decided they wanted a Socialist Govt., you would be amazed to see large numbers of today’s politicians have an “eureka ” moment and publicly declare they’ve actually been good Socialists all along and we should re-elect them.
It’s all about power, how to get it and how to keep it and how to keep the people fooled into thinking you actually believe in whatever is the most useful current political belief.
Governor Rick Scott Vetoes Funds For Rape Crisis Centers During Sexual Assault Awareness Month
April 24th, 2012
8:44 am
Florida Gov. Rick Scott (R) shocked the Florida Council Against Sexual Violence this week when he vetoed $1.5 million in funding for 30 rape crisis centers in the middle of Sexual Assault Awareness Month. State lawmakers allotted the money to offset an increase in need and a lack of sufficient funding for victim services.
A spokesperson for Scott said he vetoed that particular line item in the state budget because the state already funds sexual violence programs, and nobody was able to make it clear to him why rape crisis centers needed the new funding.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/23/rick-scott-florida-govern_n_1447294.html
Gale
April 24th, 2012
8:46 am
One reason we are borrowing so much is the cost of borrowing. If our cost of borrowing was as high as Spain or Greece, I am sure we would have a different perspective. While the debt is far too high, the cost of doing nothing is also high.
They BOTH suck
April 24th, 2012
8:47 am
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/american-doctors-for-truth-releases-new-ad-obama-throws-granny-off-the-cliff-video/
Yep… only from the left
Peadawg wake F up
barking frog
April 24th, 2012
8:47 am
Jm
the debt threat is no
more real than the red
menace was. Paulson
sacking Lehman for
backing the euro and
thus helping his buddies
at goldman was not the
world crisis proclaimed.
stands for decibels
April 24th, 2012
8:47 am
all I hear on this issue in Obama’s speeches is the GOP is trying to throw Granny off the cliff
are you sure you’re not fixated on one web ad produced by The Agenda Project last year?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Agenda_Project:_America_the_Beautiful
Which wasn’t about SS, but rather Ryan’s replace-Medicare-with-a-coupon-book plan?
USinUK
April 24th, 2012
8:47 am
“Florida Gov. Rick Scott (R) shocked the Florida Council Against Sexual Violence this week when he vetoed $1.5 million in funding for 30 rape crisis centers ”
nope … no war on wimmen here … move along … nothing to see …
stands for decibels
April 24th, 2012
8:49 am
Florida Gov. Rick Scott (R) shocked the Florida Council Against Sexual Violence this week
I’m sorry, but what could that brain damaged prick possibly do at this point that would be “shocking”?
They BOTH suck
April 24th, 2012
8:50 am
Pea
It is a two way street
Take your Republican colored blinders off
Games are played in both parties… neither is innocent
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obamacare-or-the-gop-which-would-throw-granny-off-a-cliff/2012/04/10/gIQAT6xS9S_blog.html
USinUK
April 24th, 2012
8:50 am
dB – 8:49 – we’re well past the “dead girl / live boy” scenario
Peadawg
April 24th, 2012
8:52 am
“Yep… only from the left” – HaHa nice. I haven’t seen that.
Peadawg
April 24th, 2012
8:53 am
“Take your Republican colored blinders off” – They were taken off a looong time ago, son.
barking frog
April 24th, 2012
8:53 am
Are there crisis centers
for any battery other
than rape?
They BOTH suck
April 24th, 2012
8:55 am
“They were taken off a looong time ago, son.”
With the mostly one sided posts you have it is hard to tell…………..
Love that name calling don’t you……… Just like a kid
1st sign of concession
Doggone/GA
April 24th, 2012
8:56 am
“Are there crisis centers for any battery other than rape?”
AKA: I’m too lazy to look it up for myself and I expect others to do it for me
barking frog
April 24th, 2012
8:57 am
A lot of Granny flinging
going on.
Peadawg
April 24th, 2012
8:57 am
“With the mostly one sided posts you have it is hard to tell…………..” – You must be new or something. Or you don’t read all my posts.
“Love that name calling don’t you” – What namecalling?
Paul
April 24th, 2012
8:58 am
Morning, USinUK
It’s gonna be another one of those days here…. Hope Jay comes up with a darn good topic….
Morning Joe – interesting discussion regarding Jeb Bush amongst the panel was all about “he’s not his brother – in intellect, interest, personality, policy… but still, with that name…”
BTW – that rape funding and Gov Scott? Headline said he vetoed the 1.5 mil for rape funding centers. Rather gives the impression it was to keep’em going. Further down it said “additional” funding.
Don’t know which it is, but it’s a huge difference.
Saw Warhorse last Friday. Fine movie. What I liked, just strip away the telephone poles and repave the streets and you’ve got an English village today looking like 1912.
They BOTH suck
April 24th, 2012
8:59 am
Peadawg
Am I your son? The name would be fitting but did I call you a boy?
barking frog
April 24th, 2012
8:59 am
doggone
how did you find it?
all i found was rape.
kayaker 71
April 24th, 2012
8:59 am
Speaking of Grannies,,,,,, that one who shot those thugs trying to rob her in todays AJC….. several bullet holed in her truck, windows shot out but she shot one in the chest and the other one got away. Once in awhile, the good guys win.
USinUK
April 24th, 2012
9:00 am
““They were taken off a looong time ago, son.””
“son”???
didn’t you acknowledge that you’re ownly in your early 20s or something like that???
calling someone “son” is a bit rich
USinUK
April 24th, 2012
9:00 am
only, that is …
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
April 24th, 2012
9:01 am
The Internet Bubble……”don’t worry about it, everything is fine”
The Housing Bubble…..”don’t worry about it, everything is fine”
The Debt Bubble……”don’t worry about it, everything is fine”
They BOTH suck
April 24th, 2012
9:02 am
USinUK
Especially since I am slightly older than in my 20s
They BOTH suck
April 24th, 2012
9:03 am
Steve @ 9:01
You have a good point there
massachusetts refugee thug
April 24th, 2012
9:03 am
Paul – what differnence does it make what topic JB comes up with – they all devolve into “you’re a poopy head” “no, you’re a poopy head” nonsense.
USinUK
April 24th, 2012
9:03 am
Hi Paul!! (and my regards to Mrs. Paul)
you’re one up on me – I still haven’t seen Warhorse … now, I guess it’ll probably be cable … I’d still like to see the play, though – anything done with lifesize puppetry is cool, methinks
Am reading an amazing book, though – Birdsong … it’s description of the Battle of the Somme is heartbreaking.
Gale
April 24th, 2012
9:03 am
Aw, don’t pick on Peadawg. The “son” was common usage.
barking frog
April 24th, 2012
9:04 am
When will the gas price
bubble burst?
USinUK
April 24th, 2012
9:04 am
They Both … now, we’re entering in to the “I’m my own grandpa” territory …
Peadawg
April 24th, 2012
9:04 am
“Am I your son? The name would be fitting but did I call you a boy?”
Oh, “son” is what has you all in a hissy? That’s the namecalling you’re talking about? Hold on a sec while I get out my violin and play you a sad song. I don’t get my news from thegatewaypundit or the washingtonpost. I go to AJC, Yahoo, and CNN for that.
So, next time you want to call someone out for having on blinders and tell someone to wake the F up, you better be damn sure you know what you’re talking about.
Peadawg
April 24th, 2012
9:04 am
son
USinUK
April 24th, 2012
9:05 am
“The Internet Bubble……”don’t worry about it, everything is fine”
The Housing Bubble…..”don’t worry about it, everything is fine””
whic is why ALAN GREENSPAN SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS!!!! he’s evil, I tells ya!!
Peadawg
April 24th, 2012
9:06 am
“When will the gas price
bubble burst?”
Gas is down 9 cents by my house since last week. Does Obama get credit for whatever it was he did last week w/ regards to speculators (can’t remember exactly what it was)?
Why do Republicans oppose reauthorizing “The Violence Against Women Act”
April 24th, 2012
9:07 am
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rahimkanani/2012/04/20/why-do-republicans-oppose-reauthorizing-the-violence-against-women-act/
They BOTH suck
April 24th, 2012
9:07 am
Peadawg
Wake the F up
You posted some bs about Obama and either didn’t know or purposely forgot to mention that the same thing YOU cried about is being portrayed on the other side as well
Don’t be upset at others for your ignorance or the fact that it took all of 10 seconds to show you were being what? one sided on that issue
But keep crying if you like
Jay
April 24th, 2012
9:08 am
Sheets
Peadawg
April 24th, 2012
9:10 am
“either didn’t know”
Like I said, I get my news from AJC, Yahoo, and CNN. I haven’t seen the GOP video. You could have eeeeeasily posted that stuff from the website you use w/out the ‘Wake the F up’ remark.
barking frog
April 24th, 2012
9:10 am
Peadawg
No credit since there’s
nothing the President
can do about gas prices.
By Obamas ads Romney
would be one affecting
gas prices.
They BOTH suck
April 24th, 2012
9:12 am
“w/out the ‘Wake the F up’ remark.”
Than do more homework and research before spouting of on thing you do not know……….
Make it less difficult on for you
They BOTH suck
April 24th, 2012
9:12 am
Make it less difficult for you
Jm
April 24th, 2012
9:28 am
Rick Scott happens to be doing a good job
You guys in GA wish you had half the jobs created in FL
Towncrier
April 24th, 2012
10:32 am
“The Fuhrer was another religious nut who committed his crimes with what he thought were the blessings of his god.”
I believe you are in great error. And it is an error parroted by many atheists without doing the research to learn otherwise. Early on, Hitler appealed to the Catholic and German Protestant churches in such passages from Mein Kampf to build his empire since he saw their support or non resistance as necessary. Look at his writings from 1940s and you will see an entirely different picture – the real one.
With ‘Tyranny of Clichés,’ Jonah Goldberg Delivers a Second Triumph – John Malcolm
April 30th, 2012
2:12 pm
[...] What Chris Hitchens and Jonah Goldberg both got wrong (blogs.ajc.com) [...]