What Chris Hitchens and Jonah Goldberg both got wrong
Christopher Hitchens
In his atheistic diatribe “God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything,” the late Christopher Hitchens revisited the various evils and excesses committed in the name of religion over the centuries. And they are many.
Yet what about the brutal excesses of secular, atheistic regimes, such as Stalin’s USSR, Hitler’s Third Reich, Mao’s China and Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge? Doesn’t their existence challenge the claim that it is somehow religion that is at fault, rather than something still deeper in the human psyche?
In response, Hitchens offered what I consider to be an intellectually lazy answer, an answer designed to try to win a debate rather than get at the truth:
The regimes of Stalin, Mao, Hitler and Pol Pot were also religious in nature, Hitchens argued, because they substituted the worship of an individual or ideology for the worship of a god. Therefore, all evil that those regimes did must be totted up on religion’s side of the ledger, leaving the secular world unstained.
With that contention — voila! — Hitchen’s problem was solved, or so he claimed.
In a 2007 tour to promote “God Is Not Great”, Hitchens traveled the country debating religious experts about its theme. Here in Atlanta, he crossed rhetorical swords with Tim Jackson, a professor of Christian ethics at Emory’s Candler School of Theology. And Jackson, to his credit, refused to condone Hitchen’s cheap debating tactic:
Timothy Jackson
“If we can embrace such doublespeak that North Korea is a religious institution, a religious regime, and understand Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot as fundamentally religious, then religion has become an ugly meaningless term,” Jackson pointed out.
“We’re all sinful and we can all contribute to horrific injustice, whether we’re believers or not,” the professor reminded the crowd. “….the worm at the heart of human nature is deeper than that.”
(An audio of the Hitchens/Jackson debate is available here.).
In that regard at least, Hitchens shared a lot with his one-time neighbor in New York, conservative writer Jonah Goldberg. In his 2008 book “Liberal Fascism,” Goldberg echoed Hitchens by alleging that all totalitarianism, including fascism, is by nature liberal in its origins.
Clearly, communist regimes in the USSR and China were brutal and tyrannical. But what of, say, Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, which are historically treated as examples of right-wing dictatorships? Do they not demonstrate that totalitarianism is a temptation to which both the right and left might succumb?
To Goldberg, the answer is no. He argues that Nazi Germany was actually a left-wing manifestation that drew its poison from the wells of liberalism and socialism. In fact, in his view of the world the phrase “right-wing dictatorship” is an impossible contradiction and a null set. Conservatives by definition could never be tempted to seek absolute power; thus, those who seek absolute power could never be conservative.
In a new posting at National Review, where he works as a columnist, Goldberg claims to have found further evidence of his thesis in a two-part series on Nazi Germany that was originally published in 1932 in The Atlantic and has now been republished on the Internet.
(The articles by Nicolas Fairweather are astonishing in their own right, demonstrating just how predictable the coming nightmare really was. Everything — the attempted genocide of the Jews, the invasion first of France and then of the Soviet Union — was all well-known and understood by those who cared to do so long before Hitler even gained power.)
Jonah Goldberg
However, when you read the articles cited, you realize once again how thin and downright silly Goldberg’s argument really is. For example, the 1932 Atlantic article lists “the principal articles of Hitler’s political faith,” which included:
“(Hitler’s) violent animosity to Marxian Socialism as in essence opposed to his ideal of a nationally minded people and a racial state. He condemns the Socialism of Marx as a poisonous teaching which by its humanitarianism, its internationalism, and its pacifism — all legacies of the unnatural and unwholesome democracy of the French Revolution — operates to undermine the clean ideal of Aryan (that is, German) overlordship.”
Hitler saw “Marxian Socialism” as a Jewish invention, “the principal tool by which they insinuate themselves into healthy, pure blooded, racial states.” He despised labor unions and expressed contempt for the common man. As the Atlantic piece reported:
“Class warfare, it appeared (to Hitler), was necessarily a destroyer of nationalism. In reacting against the internationalism and class-consciousness of the orthodox Socialists (’Marxists’ is the term Hitler always uses), he has made himself the outstanding opponent of all Communistic tendencies.”
Remember, this is all in an article cited as evidence in favor of Goldberg’s thesis.
In one sense, I am admittedly rehashing old ground — both the Goldberg book and the Hitchens book were published years ago. However, as the 1932 Atlantic pieces demonstrate, bad ideas and bad history can have profound consequences if left unchallenged.
It is dangerous for any group of people to wrap themselves in a belief that they are immune to the temptations of power, because once you make that mistake, those temptations become all the harder to resist. As George Orwell documented so well, for example, a similar arrogance on the left during the ’20s, ’30s and ’40s led many liberals to dismiss evidence of just how brutal the Soviet Union had become.
There will always be those who are eager to take as much power as possible; likewise, there will always be those who are willing to surrender that power to others. Political philosophy and religious faith make no one exempt to either temptation.
Because, as the good professor noted:
“The worm at the heart of human nature is deeper than that.”
– Jay Bookman
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903 comments Add your comment
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:05 pm
“abortion, pornography, et al. are not NEW to this century or to this time.and violence as entertainment has been going on since before the time of Christ. From The Roman Gladiators on down.”
Debbidoright,
I understand all that and you have a point. My point is that it seems like we are saturated with it now. Porn, permissiveness, violence, etc. its everywhere you look in our society.And abortion on demand is a regular everyday and socially acceptable thing whereas there used to be a social stigma associated with it. No more. And it was never before quite like it is now. Well of course it was that way with the Romans on the way to their fall. And when in history was it so socially acceptable for women to just have babies out of wedlock left and right? And I’m not talking about just poor women but celebrities especially. It used to be socially scorned to do so. No more. And this is not good for those women nor for their children.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
10:11 pm
More lunacy– how did this guy get my email address:
Working toward true, comprehensive tax reform
As President Obama continues to promote his Buffett Rule gimmick, the House of Representatives is leading the way on true comprehensive tax reform – closing loopholes, lowering rates, broadening the base, and simplifying the code. Families and businesses all across the country wrote their check to Uncle Sam last week, calling attention to the need for reforms to the nation’s convoluted tax system. What the president has offered is little more than a political gimmick that will only take more money out of the economy. There is no credible economic or fiscal rationale for the president’s proposal.
Meanwhile, the nation’s economic recovery remains unacceptably slow. The engine of economic opportunity and job creation resides in the hard work and ingenuity of small businesses. Pro-growth tax reform to decrease the burden on our nation’s job creators and help them keep more money in the private economy is the best path forward for strong, lasting growth. This is why House Republicans remain committed to true tax reform that will provide relief for small businesses and all Americans.
For their part, the Democrat-led Senate continues to shirk its responsibility to even pass a budget while the president’s proposal relies on Washington taking more money out of hard-working taxpayers’ pockets to pay for ever-increasing federal spending. America needs a bold and responsible budget to tackle our debt crisis. Where the president and his colleagues in Washington refuse to lead, House Republicans will.
(sigh)
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 23rd, 2012
10:11 pm
barking frog:
“scout
eternity is reserved for
christians.”
That’s just the point.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:15 pm
“suffice it to say, i got a good laugh out of this one!”
Debbie,
What is it that you got a laugh out of? That we are on a direct path to financial ruin? And what did the Rs say in that speech that is not true?
Remember the debt ceiling fight? The Rs were doing fighting tooth and nail saying they wouldn’t raise the debt ceiling in order to get the Ds to actually take our burgeoning debt crisis seriously? And what happened? The Rs had to relent- they blinked.
And rather than being saddened over the Ds refusal to take our debt seriously the next day Jay did a column about the Rs blinking and the Ds winning the right to raise the debt ceiling. And the Ds all day long that day gloated over the victory of the Rs blinking over the debt issue and the Ds winning the right to continue runaway debt spending unabated. How can running the nation into a sea of debt be a victory?
It was nothing short of shocking seeing you guys gloat over running up more debt. It was more important to you guys to make Boehnner, Paul Ryan, and the Rs “blink” than to get serious on our financial woes. And that is a truly sad statement.
Sean
April 23rd, 2012
10:16 pm
I wonder how Hitler convinced the Lutheran and Catholic Germans to commit the holocaust. The Jews weren’t gassed because the were “Marxist/socialist”. It’s because they were JEWISH.
They were slaughtered by the CHRISTIAN Nazi’s. The Nazi Party collected the “church Tax” to fund the major churches of Germany at the time.
Pope Pius (who is about to become a saint) said what about the holocaust?
This is so self evident I am always stunned that this lesson is so easily forgotten. This column is embarrassing.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
10:17 pm
DebbieDo
Nixon solved all that crap
when he stopped trading
gold away. Cheney was
right when he said deficits
don’t matter. National debt
doesn’t either. All can be
paid with printed dollars.
Josef
April 23rd, 2012
10:19 pm
Since he’ll is for eternity, is it reserved for Christians, too?
And on that bit of EOI I’ll bid g’night..
Smeat
April 23rd, 2012
10:19 pm
What did Mr.Obama have to say in his own words during an interview aujourd’hui sujet de discussion ??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4EHmzslKLw
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
April 23rd, 2012
10:22 pm
josef @ 10:19
Yes ………. for those in name only.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:22 pm
“As President Obama continues to promote his Buffett Rule gimmick, the House of Representatives is leading the way on true comprehensive tax reform – closing loopholes, lowering rates, broadening the base, and simplifying the code”
There is nothing untrue about that statement. As for the Buffet rule being a gimmick how is that not true? 4 billion a year in extra revenue when we are running a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit. And people think that 4 billion is going to do something?
“Meanwhile, the nation’s economic recovery remains unacceptably slow’
True statement. This is the single weakest recovery from a recession since the great depression. And the reality is that the deeper the recession the stronger the recovery should be. This recovery is the lone exception to that rule.
“For their part, the Democrat-led Senate continues to shirk its responsibility to even pass a budget while the president’s proposal relies on Washington taking more money out of hard-working taxpayers’ pockets to pay for ever-increasing federal spending.”
Totally true statement. The dem senate just lets every bill from the house die in it and as for the president’s budget and spending I think we are now spending 23% of the nation’s GDP when we have historically been spending 18% of GDP. Again how is this untrue?
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
10:23 pm
Doom: And abortion on demand is a regular everyday and socially acceptable thing whereas there used to be a social stigma associated with it. No more. And it was never before quite like it is now. Well of course it was that way with the Romans on the way to their fall. And when in history was it so socially acceptable for women to just have babies out of wedlock left and right? And I’m not talking about just poor women but celebrities especially. It used to be socially scorned to do so. No more. And this is not good for those women nor for their children
“Abortion On Demand” – You sound like a republican political soundbite. Doom- my feelings is that everyone’s soul is their own business. Not mine nor yours. If what they’re doing is not illegal then put down your stones.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:26 pm
Thulsa,
In other words, you got nothing. I effing thought so.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
10:28 pm
Smeat
Seems Obama is first
black and first marxist.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:29 pm
Totally true statement. The dem senate just lets every bill from the house die in it and as for the president’s budget and spending I think we are now spending 23% of the nation’s GDP when we have historically been spending 18% of GDP. Again how is this untrue?
You got a linkee to back up those numbers, Thulsa.
Smeat
April 23rd, 2012
10:30 pm
And this one is for *md* who advocated on another bloggist’s page that it would be appropriate for the federal government to squash assembly, dissent and all speech for the “common good” by any means necessary… You’ll be fine as long as you’re a loyal party member and inform on your neighbors to get an extra bottle of guvmint cheez liquor and free healthcare…….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOCfqZm2GLU
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:31 pm
“Abortion On Demand” – You sound like a republican political soundbite”
Rather than just saying I sound like a soundbite just let me know if this is true or not. To my knowledge there is little if anything in stopping a woman from getting an abortion inside of 24 weeks. Am I wrong?
And I never said I believed in stoning them. Not gonna do it. I know women who’ve gone through what has got to be a terribly wrenching decision. I do not look down on them or judge them. Believe it or not I actually have more sympathy for them for having to make such a painful decision.
“If what they’re doing is not illegal then put down your stones.”
Debbie we should all be thankful that northern abolitionists didn’t listen to the argument to now worry about what someone is doing if its not illegal.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
10:33 pm
St Simons – he-ne-hah
April 23rd, 2012
9:31 pm
…reading some of this other jibberish……
josef, you’ll know – wasn’t the swastika a religious symbol or something?
__________
I like that. Well put. Or something is pretty broad. Yes, or something it is.
getalife
April 23rd, 2012
10:34 pm
“”The war on terror is over,” a senior official in the State Department official tells the National Journal. “Now that we have killed most of al Qaida, now that people have come to see legitimate means of expression, people who once might have gone into al Qaida see an opportunity for a legitimate Islamism.” WS
Another huge accomplishment.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
10:35 pm
Doom – really? OK – let’s break it down for you.
With trillion dollar annual deficits now the new normal under current economic and spending policies, America is fast approaching a fiscal cliff that will drown not only this generation but future generations in more debt, doubt, and despair
That’s really funny because Republicans are the ones who repealed the “Pay As You Go” law and then when the Dems won house back in 2006 and voted it back in, it was the Republicans who bitched the loudest. (See Below—remember THIS?)
Day Two: House passes new budget rules
Democrats push to increase spending only with cuts in other funding
WASHINGTON — The House has voted to reinstate budget rules designed to curb the budget deficit.
The vote was 280-to-154 to reinstate the so-called “pay as you go” rule. It requires that any increase in entitlement spending or tax cut be somehow offset so as to not to increase the deficit.
Budget hawks say the move is a good first step toward restoring fiscal discipline. But the changes could bedevil efforts to appease middle-class voters later.
The House has also approved a Democratic proposal that requires lawmakers to publicly disclose their pet projects, or “earmarks.”
Another rule change would curb past abuses in which GOP leaders held votes open for hours and excluded minority party lawmakers from House-Senate negotiations on the language of final bills sent to the for enactment.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
10:35 pm
Otay. Here’s my qualifications to be blog referee- Why am I qualified? Because I effing said so! You don’t like it? Tough! To the nonsense corner I now banish thee.
_________________
Another articulate blogger. Well said.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:38 pm
“Between 2001 and 2010, spending increased by 5.6% GDP (from 18.2% GDP in 2001 to 23.8% GDP in 2010),”
Taxpayer.
I apologize. You got me. I was wrong. I should have stated 24% of GDP instead of 23 since 23.8 is closer to 24%. My apologies. I’m even more right than I realized. A linkee? Why yes. I do. But only if you believe wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget
B
O
O
M
!
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:38 pm
Oscar,
Don’t you start effing saying so too!
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
10:39 pm
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:38 pm
_____
We seem to have a lot of self appointed referees on here. Come one come all.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:40 pm
Oscar,
I have to tailor my blog responses to my the intellect of my audience. And when he repeatedly asks a really dumb question he’s going to get a response befitting the question.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:41 pm
Economist Paul Krugman summarized these causes in May 2011: “What happened to the budget surplus the federal government had in 2000? The answer is, three main things. First, there were the Bush tax cuts, which added roughly $2 trillion to the national debt over the last decade. Second, there were the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which added an additional $1.1 trillion or so. And third was the Great Recession, which led both to a collapse in revenue and to a sharp rise in spending on unemployment insurance and other safety-net programs.”[62
Per your linkee, Doom. I’m good with that.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:42 pm
Thulsa does indeed tailor his comments to his intellect and it shows.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:42 pm
Oscar,
And btw I did not appoint myself blog referee. Somebody else did in jest in asking me to weigh in on a debate. TP is just mad that nobody asks his opinion. And why would they given his level of discourse- or rather glaring lack thereof?
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
10:42 pm
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:40 pm
____
No critism here. I totally agree. (I didn’t read further back to see what was said)
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:43 pm
Oscar,
Didn’t you get the word. Anyone can be an effing referee. Just ask Thulsa. He’ll tell ya.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
10:43 pm
criticism??
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:44 pm
Actually Thulsa is just mad that I asked for his qualifications and it showed in his effing response.
Smeat
April 23rd, 2012
10:45 pm
Dear getalife — You really need to get a life…
Your post verbatim, ““”The war on terror is over,” a senior official in the State Department official tells the National Journal. “Now that we have killed most of al Qaida, now that people have come to see legitimate means of expression, people who once might have gone into al Qaida see an opportunity for a legitimate Islamism.” WS
Another huge accomplishment.”
Uhhhhhhhhhh
A senior official at the State Department sez…. You should take notice that this person is not named and doesn’t reveal their identity… Iz this the new Linda Lovelace Wannebe ??
That means he’s chicken to go on the record and it may very well be barroom bs and/or rumor…
Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.
Rumor is the name of Demi Moore and Bruce Willis’s daughter….
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:45 pm
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:42 pm
“Thulsa does indeed tailor his comments to his intellect and it shows.”
Reading comprehension TP. I tailor my comments to the intellect of my audience. And you being part of my admiring audience deserved the measured response that your irrelevant question warranted.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
10:45 pm
Just taking a break between “Swing Kids” which was a movie about creeping Nazis – I have seen it before but it is appropriate to today’s dicussion. Good movie I would recommend. – and Cheasa Lately and Letterman.
I watch Letterman to keep up with what Mitt is doing.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
10:46 pm
Doom: Rather than just saying I sound like a soundbite just let me know if this is true or not. To my knowledge there is little if anything in stopping a woman from getting an abortion inside of 24 weeks. Am I wrong?
Yes you are. Have you NOT been seeing/noticing/recognizing the war the republican party has been making on women’s reproductive rights? Did you NOT notice that states have been making it harder and harder for women, EVEN women who have been raped or are victims of incest, to receive abortions?
Believe it or not I actually have more sympathy for them for having to make such a painful decision.
NOT.
Debbie we should all be thankful that northern abolitionists didn’t listen to the argument to now worry about what someone is doing if its not illegal
OMG – not the slave thing again! Why is it that everytime you talk to me you bring up slavery. It’s like your ultimate “Gotcha Race Card”. Do you bring up slavery because I’m black? I don’t get it. On one hand you say, “Blacks shouldn’t live in the past!! There’s no more slavery!!”; then on the other hand when you want to “win” a point with me you bring up slavery! It’s like that commercial — You put that sh##t on everything!
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:46 pm
Reading comprehension, Thulsa. You tailor your comments based on your abilities and it shows.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:49 pm
The road to serfdom is paved with good intentions
Think, liberals
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
10:51 pm
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:44 pm
“Actually Thulsa is just mad that I asked for his qualifications and it showed in his effing response.”
No TP. You don’t garner enough respect for me to be mad at you. I just gave a measured retort to your rather asinine question.
The point is that there is no qualification to be “blog referree”. Being “blog ref” is just a facetious statement. Apparently that is above your meager and rather limited comprehension capability. And hence you get all serious about what is essentially kind of a joke and start asking repeatedly about “blog ref” qualifications as if its a real damn job or something. Get a clue dude.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:51 pm
Think liberal
It’s liberating.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:51 pm
The “war on women” gets played by both sides
It is a distraction from the important issues of the day
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:52 pm
Look at Doom, Still carrying on. You too easy. Now where are those effing qualifications.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:53 pm
Am kore worried about sluts or the deficit?
Um. The deficit.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
10:53 pm
Jm
Serf’s up..
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:53 pm
Whoops
“am I more…”
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:54 pm
Actually, the right wing nuts at FOX only play the “war on conservative women” card. They dismiss the notion that there is a “war on women”.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:54 pm
Frog
Was watching “step into liquid” yesterday
Good movie
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:55 pm
Frog
Riding giants is better tho
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
10:56 pm
The “war on women” gets played by both sides
It is a distraction from the important issues of the day
How insulting. Women aren’t important? After all they make up HALF of the population, and without them, there would be no MORE population. we will remember how you really feel about women republicans at the polls.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:56 pm
Jay is THE blog referee, Thulsa. Surely you realize that. His say is final.
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
10:57 pm
Jm
will there be serf boards?
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
10:57 pm
I did some reading on the Nazi swastika. Hitler chose it and desiged the flag.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:58 pm
DDR
I see reading comprehension on this blog has not improved
Of course women are important silly
When abortion rights are actually at risk at the national level, you can call me
Until then I care most about the giant damn deficit
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:59 pm
Frog
Serf boards…. The inquisition?
Oscar, I have a funny story about the nazi flag
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:00 pm
“Have you NOT been seeing/noticing/recognizing the war the republican party has been making on women’s reproductive rights?”
OMG you fell for that Debbie? A 31 year old woman goes to Congress to complain about other Georgetown law students not getting their birth control paid for by insurance or other sources. And you folks make this gigantic leap that this now constitutes a war on women? Are you kidding me? Carl Lewis couldn’t make that big a leap in his gold medal long jump. Put away the bumper sticker “war on women” sloganeering Debbie. You’re better than that.
As for the states trying to make it harder that’s true in some cases like Virginia for example. So what. That’s not a “war on women”. Republicans have opposed abortion on moral grounds forever it seems. So why is there all of a sudden this “war on women”?
“OMG – not the slave thing again!”
Nope to the rest of your statement. I just bring it up because it shows the glaring weakness of your argument- that just because something is legal that its right or moral or good. You being black has nothing to do with it. If you were white I would still use the same argument. And I notice that you really have no logical retort to it other than to get mad over the fact that I brought it up.
“It’s like that commercial —You put that sh##t on everything!”
I know it wasn’t your intent but now you got me laughing and a rolling.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:00 pm
I have to tailor my blog responses to my the intellect of my audience. And when he repeatedly asks a really dumb question he’s going to get a response befitting the question.
TD–Do you ever get the feeling that some folks here take the blog waaaay too seriously??
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:00 pm
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
10:58 pm
——————-
Quit worrying about the deficit. The folks that should be worried are the chinese and the other states that own our debts and hold our cash. When we start printing money their holdings will be worth less.
Just get ready for the inflation and make sure you invest in something inflation proof.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
11:01 pm
Jm,
How about that deficit reduction in Paul Ryan’s plan. How much does it lower the national debt in ten years. Does it lower it a measly trivial 4 billion per year.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:03 pm
worth less.
In case anyone bothered to read my comment above, I meand worth not as much. Did not inadverdently add a space while trying to type the word “worthless.”
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:05 pm
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
11:01 pm
____
The trouble with trying to reduce the deficit to fast, the cure would be worse than the disease. Has to be dealth with slowly.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:05 pm
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:56 pm
Jay is THE blog referee, Thulsa. Surely you realize that. His say is final.
Taxpayer,
Nope. Jay is the blog sheriff and also the IMAM according to josef. I have been annointed as the new blog referee. I even signed a contract with the AJC appointing me as such and I will now receive a monthly stipend and expense account. You’re just going to have to deal with it TP.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
April 23rd, 2012
11:06 pm
it’s late but I’d LOVE to talk to you and Jm about women’s reproductive rights and the attack by the GOP to put us back into the kitchen. preferably barefoot and pregnant.
however, I have a flight out early tomorrow a.m. with a grueling day ahead with another flight back here in the p.m.
some other time gents, I’d love to debate you on the issue. but now, I gotta get some sleep. later gents.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:06 pm
Oscar
There isn’t a really good hedge against inflation. They all have flaws
Taxpayer
It tackles the spending problem. That is the hardest challenge. After that, I’m up for considering tax increases via deduction elimination
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:07 pm
Just get ready for the inflation and make sure you invest in something inflation proof.
In case you didn’t know, Oscar, inflation hurts those on a fixed income the most. So, are you advocating that we pay our debts down on the backs of the most vulnerable??
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:08 pm
Oscar,
We all get it. We all do the typo thing constantly when typing fast. In regards to the deficit I do agree with you. It has to be done slowly. Slashing everything overnight would be a shock to the system. But slashing the deficit and balancing the budget over say 10 years would assure the markets and restore our growth and begin to restore the value of the dollar.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
11:08 pm
I will now receive a monthly stipend and expense account.
I think Jay would say not to worry. Check’s in the mail covering your full value. I can deal with that.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:09 pm
Anyone here know who Jim Williams is?
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:09 pm
Debbiedoright,
Have a good night and get your rest so that you can give us hell tomorrow.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:10 pm
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:08 pm
_______
I agree. Ten years sounds about right.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:10 pm
I’d LOVE to talk to you and Jm about women’s reproductive rights and the attack by the GOP to put us back into the kitchen. preferably barefoot and pregnant.
Pretty scary to peer into the mind of a Lib……..Now, because women are forced to make their heart-rendering decision to abort within 5 months instead of 6, we want them barefoot and pregnant. Brilliant logic there, Deb.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:10 pm
Doom 11:08 ditto
U can’t wait until it is too late
It must begin now, gradually, but predictably and solidly
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:11 pm
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:09 pm
_____
I don’t guess you are referring to my fraternity brother back in college. He lives in Arkansas now.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:11 pm
Taxpayer,
Car allowance, corporate jet, 6 weeks paid vacation, full medical, etc. Its a nice gig. Too bad you didn’t get the gig.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
11:13 pm
Jm,
For the fun of it, let’s assume that Paul’s plan actually addressed the spending problem that some claim we must be solely focused on. How much is spending reduced per year under Ryan’s plan and how does that reduced spending translate into the elimination of the deficit and ultimately, the paydown of the debt. And how does that compare to plans offered by others such as the bipartisan deficit reduction committee.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:14 pm
Jm
Midnigh in the Garden of Good and Evil Jim Williams?
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:14 pm
Oscar
No
He was the guy played by Kevin spacey in midnight in the garden of good and evil
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:14 pm
Oscar yep
So here’s the story:
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:15 pm
Oscar and Jm,
Good grief. I know its only a blog but if we can come to a common sense consensus on that amongst party lines then it would seem the 2 parties could do the same- I think Jm is a moderate who voted for O but is leaning con, Oscar I think leans Dem but I’m not sure, I lean politics to the right of Attila the Hun.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:16 pm
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:14 pm
_______
Right. My friend google helped me remember. But why are you bringing him up.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:16 pm
Hollywood studio is making a civil war era film down in savannah…
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
11:16 pm
Car allowance, corporate jet, 6 weeks paid vacation, full medical, etc. Its a nice gig. Too bad you didn’t get the gig.
Sounds like the one I retired from. I don’t miss the jet lag from those cross country trips though. Now I get 52 weeks paid vacation, i.e., a pension and medical. It’s a nice gig too but obviously not for everyone.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:17 pm
Studio decides the park in front of Jim’s house is perfect, with Jim’s house as a backdrop cause it’s so quintessentially southern….
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:17 pm
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:15 pm
_____
My leaning tends to change back and forth as the wind changes. LIke Reagan said I don’t leave them, but I change when they leave me.
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:18 pm
Studio doesn’t ask Jim for permission to use his house. Jim is a bit sensitive about these things. Being an antiques dealer and all….
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:19 pm
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:17 pm
_______
I have seen that house. It is a nice block in Savannah. I thinkg Johnny Mercer and his family lived there once.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:19 pm
JamVet–If you poke your head in, I got the tix for us for Thursday night. Should be a fun show.
Here’s a killer Bowie cover that PB put up on Friday night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA6NIjK5bTw&feature=youtu.be
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:20 pm
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:18 pm
________
You need go no further. I now remember the story. It’s a good one.
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:21 pm
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:41 pm
“Economist Paul Krugman summarized these causes in May 2011:”
And then I stopped reading. Of course it is always cute when some lib trys to present Paul Krugman as an unbiased economist. it just doesnt git any funnier.
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:21 pm
And on the day of the filming, the studio did not notice —–
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:21 pm
Jim, being an antiques dealer, goes up to his trove of stuff, rummages around, and finds the perfect solution: a full size giant nazi flag which he promptly flies from the top of his front porch.
Which makes a civil war era film a bit complex to correct, pre digital editing
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:23 pm
Rriend of mine lived in Savannah at the time and knew Jim. She said Spacy nailed Jim just right in the movie.
TaxPayer
April 23rd, 2012
11:23 pm
And then I stopped reading. Of course it is always cute when some lib trys to present Paul Krugman as an unbiased economist. it just doesnt git any funnier
It was the next paragraph from your very on wiki citation. I’m surprised you did not read even that far. Then again…
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:24 pm
Oscar
Everyone in downtown savannah noticed
Jim lived across from a synagogue
Thulsa Doom
April 23rd, 2012
11:25 pm
Allright, taps for Doomy and a good night to all. And of course I leave with a nice little ode to the chihuahua for continuing to amuse me this evening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATPi3VQsEv0
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:26 pm
Oscar
I only ran into him as a kid every so often
Hardly remember him…..
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:27 pm
Some King Crimson for any cool people still hanging out. TP is excused from listening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlNantlznCA
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:29 pm
Now joe odom I remember….
Oscar
April 23rd, 2012
11:31 pm
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:26 pm
_________
Strange guy. Anyone ever find out what really happened?
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:32 pm
If Atlanta was as nice as savannah, heck, no one would ever leave
And no one would care what their income was either
Atlanta is where people go to make a living, and then get the heck out….
Jm
April 23rd, 2012
11:32 pm
Oscar
Jim shot him, no real mystery
Just sloppy justice
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:34 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kVNl-9cS9c&feature=related
Said the straight man to the late man
Where have you been
I’ve been here and I’ve been there
And I’ve been in between.
I talk to the wind
My words are all carried away
I talk to the wind
The wind does not hear
The wind cannot hear.
I’m on the outside looking inside
What do I see
Much confusion, disillusion
All around me.
You don’t possess me
Don’t impress me
Just upset my mind
Can’t instruct me or conduct me
Just use up my time
I talk to the wind
My words are all carried away
I talk to the wind
The wind does not hear
The wind cannot hear.